The Louis Theroux Podcast - S4 EP6: Sharon Horgan on the sadness of comedy, living in squats and FaceTiming Bono

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Louis sits down in the Spotify studio with Irish actor, writer, and director Sharon Horgan. Sharon discusses her colourful years squatting in London, the fine line between comedy and tragedy, and FaceTiming with Bono while filming Bad Sisters 2. She also spills the beans about almost starring in a Woody Allen film…  Warnings: Strong language.      ⁠Links/Attachments:   TV Show: ‘Bad Sisters’ (2022-2025) - AppleTV+  https://tv.apple.com/gb/show/bad-sisters/umc.cmc.14kr4vv65unannh7doqgvlh20   Film: Home Alone (1990)  https://youtu.be/jEDaVHmw7r4?si=rfeHfnepM2T1YCCQ    TV Show: ‘Catastrophe’ (2015-2019) - Channel 4   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sKQ6ilBGGE   TV Show: ‘Pulling’ (2006-2009) - BBC  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgHKlCM-7Wk&t=4s   TV Show: ‘Modern Love’ (2019) - Amazon  https://youtu.be/2zSuD79TU3w?si=opqU542-inqGMY_d&t=244    Short Film: The Week Before Christmas (2012) - Sky  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKfgCrFuek   TV Show: ‘Divorce’ (2016-2019) - HBO  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGadA8rJBek   TV Show: ‘The Larry Sanders Show’ (1992-1998) - HBO  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1YlnrQAnM   TV Show: ‘The Pilot Show’ (2004) - Channel 4  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueLNwbFWEU   ‘Woody Allen warns against ‘witch hunt’ post-Weinstein' - Variety https://variety.com/2017/film/news/woody-allen-harvey-weinstein-1202590319/  Film: Husbands and Wives (1992)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2daA2-OwXbE   Film: Housewife of the Year (2024)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0OGXGAHaWs   TV Show: ‘Motherland’ (2016-2022) https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p05j1jkp/motherland   TV Show: ‘Amandaland’ (2025) https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m0024pyy/amandaland       Credits:  Producer: Millie Chu   Assistant Producer: Emilia Gill  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D’Oliveira   Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Scott Edwards   Shownotes compiled by Maisie Williams  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1212, ready? Mic number one. Hello, Louis Threw here. Welcome back to my podcast called The Louis Threw Podcast. Today, I'm joined by award winning Irish actor, writer and producer, Sharon Horgan. Sharon came to comedy writing in her mid-30s when after working various odd jobs, including six years in a job centre in Kilburn, she teamed up with writer Dennis Kelly to create Pulling, a comedy about three single women in London which aired on BBC Three in 2006. Her next big hit was in 2014 with Catastrophe, which she co-wrote with American comedian Rob Delaney, a critically acclaimed comedy, I'm sure you saw it, about a couple navigating

an unexpected pregnancy. Off the back of her success in the UK, Sharon went to the US to write an executive-produced divorce for HBO starring Sarah Jessica Parker, fresh off the back of Sex in the City, and Thomas Hayden Church from Wings. You probably may not have seen that. That's a more obscure TV offering. There's more about my obsession with 90s American sitcom in the chat. More recently, Sharon has been working on the second series of her show, Bad Sisters, for Apple TV+. How would I describe it? It's prestige TV. You can see there's a lot of money on the screen. It follows Five Sisters and their criminal enterprise in which one of them has

a horrible husband, so they want to off him. That's not a spoiler. That's all part of the setup, I think it's fair to say. And it is slightly macabre and also kind of recognisably taking place in the real world. And the five of them, the five sisters have a beautiful chemistry between them. One of them called Bibi wears an eye patch. I mention that because she comes up in the chat and I don't think I explained who she was. The youngest of the sisters is played by Eve Hewson, daughter of U2's front man Bono. Again, that comes up. His real name is what? Paul Hewson, I think. Not Bono. You thought he was born

Bono. He wasn't. I was excited to have this chat for many reasons. Sharon is enormously talented, very productive. That was a small sampling of her output. There's many other things. Motherland is another one. But also we are, in a sense, chronological siblings, both being born in 1970. And she followed a path which I regard as highly enviable. You know me as a documentary maker, a TV legend. Those aren't my words. Can I get away with that? I just said it.

Okay, fine, I'll live with it. But I started out wanting to be a TV sitcom writer. And we talk a bit about that. I mentioned an American comedy writer and producer called Paul Sims in the chat. He was a writer on Larry Sanders, if you ever saw that, and then created a sitcom called News Radio, which for various reasons I aspired to write on. It was about, I don't think it was on in the UK, it was about a radio station in New York.

Phil Hartman was in it, Andy Dick, and a young Joe Rogan, believe it or not. Anyway, there's that. This one was recorded in January this year at Spotify HQ. Sharon was here to promote both the new series of Bad Sisters and her upcoming BBC show, Amanda Land, a spin-off from Motherland. She turned up bang on time, maybe even slightly early, looking supernaturally glamorous, hair glossy, lustrous and full, clothes immaculate. I was looking whatever the opposite of that is, weather beaten, kind of sucking in light and negative charisma. Minus Riz.

A warning, there is strong language in the episode. I apologize for that. All that and much, much more coming up after this. Look at you, you look amazing. I know, someone came to my house this morning and did all this. I think because it's Apple, you know, they do that thing where they give you like a budget to do that. Yeah, for everything for even for a podcaster. And then and then when you end up doing a BBC thing and you you know, and you get nothing it feels like they care about it. Tell me about it. I've lived with that for 25 years. I mean, I actually quite like the level of neglect. Feels like it keeps you honest.

Yeah. And then you go and then you go into you do a chat show or something, and they give you like chocolates and perfume and you're like, yeah, this is how the other people are living. Yeah. Do you get presents when a program goes out? You know, like I got a Christmas this year, I got a a popcorn maker from 20th Century Fox. Did you? And it's lovely, but it's also like, I don't know what I need to do for that popcorn maker. No. Have you made something for them?

We're working with them at the moment, yeah. Yeah, because Christmas presents is slightly different. And at birthday birthday I remember one year when I was perceived to be maybe like hot property like new on the scene and I received two lava lamps as gifts like from different channels or production companies. Yeah it's amazing and now you always expect a lava lamp. It was more well I put that in the same category as popcorn maker, like the feeling of, I like the expression of goodwill. Yeah, I do. I do.

I think the first time I ever went to America to make a pilot, I got a fruit basket that was, I'd never seen anything like it before. It was just, I've never been given one of that kind of level since. But it did sort of start me off on a footing which was it's just all going to be fruit baskets from now on. I feel like that's something they do. I don't think fruit baskets are a thing this side of the Atlantic. Yeah, you don't see them that often. Right, even as a phrase. They're rarer. Congratulations on your new series. Thank you. Bad Sisters season two, we've been really enjoying it.

Was it a fun experience filming it? Filming the Bad Sisters? Yes. A lot of stress. A lot of stress. A lot of stress for the first season because it was in the middle of all the Covid protocols. So it was actually a nightmare a lot of the time. You know, having to sort of change schedules constantly

as people sort of got ill. But I absolutely loved the fact that I was getting to sort of show Ireland off, you know, and get to... It's beautiful. Yeah. Is it? Because I googled, I googled where the locations were, but it seemed like you'd used a few different locations. Yeah, we did. We created the world and we made this map of where the Garvey Sisters were and, you

know, where all the sort of different main locations were and then realised that they were like, it's like spread all over the place. But like, as long as we sort of worked it out on this map, so we could pretend that they were all close by. And their houses are amazing. Yeah. What does Bibi do for a living? Ha ha ha. She's, well, you know, she's actually

a professional poker player. Is she? Yeah. But she's been very successful at it. It's her wife who makes the money. Is it? What does she do? She's a lawyer. It's funny, people get really obsessed with characters' houses and working

out whether they can afford them or not. Yeah, it's like the Home Alone thing, isn't it? Have you heard the theory about Home Alone where they're in this extraordinary house, but they're like a regular middle-class family? So one of the theories is that he's involved in organized crime. Oh, okay. And that's partly why they get burgled. Yeah. Oh, that's very good. That makes sense. Well, I remember when Rob and I did the first season of Catastrophe, I was in a little flat. And in the second season, you know, we were married

and we had two kids and we had a decent sized house and Rob worked in advertising and I was a teacher and people were still so angry about the house, the house that we had and the size of it. It just kind of made me laugh in the end. But with Bad Sisters, with the Eva house in the first season, that was there. We kind of, we built onto it so we made it this sort of larger, more kind of beautiful thing. Eva's the character you play. Yes. She's sort of the default matriarch. The five sisters parents have died in a car crash. So she lives in the family house and it's a big old rambling. She's a Miss Tavisham slight sort of vibe. It's a big beautiful Victorian house.

But the guy who owned it knocked it down and built this sort of very concrete, modern house in its place. Since then? Well, in the second season we had to just build a new house somewhere else entirely and make it match. What's the budget for a series like that? I can't say. Can I say that...

It's a lot more you read it separately? It's a lot more than a BBC Three pulling budget. What would the budget for pulling be? Oh, like, no pens. Like nothing. Roughly, like per episode. God almighty. Like 400 grand, maybe?

£100,000? Less, probably, at the time. 300? Per episode. Yeah. About what one of my documentaries cost. When I first watched season one of Sisters, it's got an amazing title sequence. And I thought, wow, that title sequence looks like it costs more than one of my documentaries. Yeah, it probably did. It probably did. It's an amazing series of objects colliding through inertia in a kind of Heath Robinson-esque contraption. All of the objects have relevance for the series.

Did Bono ever visit the set? No, he didn't actually. That's odd. Ali did. Ali did. Ali Hewson came and brought us hot chocolate when we were down at the 40 foot freezing our tits off. She's very good. Eve Hewson plays the younger sister and it was it was very late in the process where I clocked that actually maybe that's Bono's

daughter. Yes she's amazing I love her so much. We thought he didn't come down. I think he was just busy doing a massive tour. I've never met him actually. I've spoken to him on FaceTime at Eve's last birthday. Most of her family were there, but her mum and dad were in Ireland and so we were FaceTiming with them. That was fun. Did he bono feedback and say, I really enjoyed it? I think he really enjoyed it, yeah. Based on he said that? Based on he said that, yeah. Really? He said he watched it with the edge.

And Adam Clayton. And Adam Clayton and Larry Mullen. And Larry Mullen, junior. Junior. They all watched it together. What I loved about Bad Sisters especially was it's like all your work, it's willingness to embrace darkness. And for me, that's the funniest. The funniest is the saddest. It's all the most undignified and the ugliest.

But it's sort of, that's what I kind of feel my job is, you know, is to bridge those tones and keep an eye on it, you know, throughout. Because I think, especially when you're dealing with really serious subject matter, you know, and there's a sort of responsibility there. And I've heard you say before that it's those parts of creativity that reflect the impulses that you have that might make you feel lonely because you think, oh, am I the only one who feels this? And then you see it reflected in work and you kind of, it's that sense of relief. That's sometimes really terrifying, you know, and the thought of like getting it wrong or the thought of someone watching and thinking we're taking the piss or, or, you know, not being sort of careful with with that kind of, you know, really tricky,

delicate area kind of would keep me awake at night. So it's sort of like I'm really careful at the script stage and then, you know, careful at the performance stage and then right the way through, you know, into the into the edit. And you can always like, I still I still think you can you can sort of really jump into it and try out laughing at a point where you feel like you shouldn't or to have a character say something completely, you know, out of line or, you know, disrespectful. But because you can always like pull back in the edit. So I try and like push it as far as I can in the script and then further when it comes to kind of performing it and then just sort of know that I've got to kind of performing it and then just sort of know that I've got this kind of safety net where I can look at it a bit objectively

and as long as you have the right people around you also, you know, keeping an eye then you're usually kind of safe. Yeah. One of the things I was going to talk to you about was like we're both the same age. We were born in 1970. So we're kind of twins, not twins, but like I... What's your month? May. May.

July? July, yeah. So I think our life experiences in certain respects, there's overlap, right? But nevertheless, I achieved a level of exposure that was undeserved and unexpected in my mid-20s. Right. And then so I was 30 and I'd been on TV for six years, off and on. And you know, you hit your stride, we can come on to this, you hit your stride, I would say you were in your early 30s, it's not that late, but relatively late. Well actually it was mid to a little bit later 30s.

I think I was 36. Yeah. Do you feel like there was a moment when you felt you had kind of made it in some sense that there was a moment where you feel like, okay, now I'm doing what I dreamed I was going to be doing? Personally, that feeling happened when Dennis and I got pulling picked up or maybe when Dennis and I went out onto location on I think the first or second day. This is Dennis Kelly, your writing partner on pulling, which was the sitcom that in a sense was the breakthrough moment because it was commissioned and became a successful sitcom. Yeah, you know, it was our first, my first sort of starring thing but not many people saw it so I guess it, and we, you know, it's our first, my first sort of starring thing, but, but not many people saw it. So I guess it wouldn't have, you know, it wasn't like,

is different to what you experienced, which is like suddenly being, you know, the, I had four or five million at that time on BBC two, but three, you put me in the position of boasting. No, we had, we had about 200,000 on BBC3. I know how many you had. You had 356. Oh, okay. That's better than I thought. 367,000. But it wasn't like a breakthrough that everyone noticed. I mean we got like a BAFTA nomination and I remember thinking well, this is this is it now. This is the greatest thing, But it was definitely, we were definitely one of those programs, you know, that was on that BAFTA list that no one knew about. And we're sort of going, who are they? What is that? And then I remember when I did, when we did the,

not British Comedy Awards, I forget what they were called, but they changed over the years, the Comedy Awards. And I won for best actress in Pulling. And I turned to my agent and I said, I mean, so what happens now? I genuinely thought that that was gonna be the moment where I sort of broke through and he was like, nothing, nothing happens, nothing changes.

And he was absolutely right. And it sort of stayed like that for years and years and years. And where I'm just working, but there was no sort of breakthrough, breakout moment. And it's not like I wasn't trying to make that happen like I was. I was like, maybe I go to America now? But no one was sort of pushing me to do that. And so I suppose it didn't really happen internationally until catastrophe. It sort of goes like that the whole time.

Up and down for people listening. I think that's kind of... Oh, sorry. I did a sort of wavy thing with my hand. I think that's kind of better, isn't it? I mean, I get I get nervous at the idea of, you know, having a big sort of spotlight, you know, where everyone's talking about you, because then you've got to keep that up. And that feels like that way sort of madness lies kind of thing. Because how

on earth can you keep that level up? And I think it would just end up sort of killing you or just being very disappointing, you know. And so I think in a way it's kind of better, you know, to have little sort in a way it's kind of better, you know, to have little sort of cultural moments where people are interested and then you're kind of back to just sort of doing what you do, you know, just like making a living, feeding your kids. So do you know, if we stay in that pulling era, because through the 90s, you were seeking work as an actor, is that right? And also you're putting on plays, you were living in... Yeah. Where were you living?

Camden. Camden, but you were working in a Kilburn Job Center. Yes. I came down the Kilburn High Road to get here, by the way. Did you? It really gives me the heebies. You know the way old places where you... Does it? Yeah, because I used to get off at Bronzebury train station and then walk to Kilburn Job Center and I did that for like six and three-quarter years. That long was it? Yeah I think I was what they called stuck in a

rush. Really? I think I was stuck in a rush. I mean it's not like I wasn't doing other things I was like I was putting on plays above pubs and that but I was just too sort of scared to you know know, have a proper go. Like I remember getting my first break, getting a radio pilot when I hadn't been at the job centre that long and I like I turned up to make the pilot with my yellow job centre folder with all my scripts in it. At the time I had knits. I don't know who I got them from, but I was squatting in a manor house in North London

while I was working at the time and I got nits off some skank. And then I remember being in the reception for the BBC. I'm like, what am I doing here? And Joanna Lumley was there and I was so nervous. I'd given her nits and it was just sort of a weird two worlds colliding kind of thing but then that pilot didn't get picked up and I think I don't know about you I was just very easily knocked I think Dennis Kelly was as well like we we would go into it thinking this is the greatest thing this is our break and then we get a load of

either notes from someone or someone saying this isn't kind of good enough, you're going to have to work harder. And we didn't really know what to do with that. We didn't really know how to get better at that time. We didn't realize the length of the road of slog. You have to, you know, walk down before you get good at something. So yeah, so it was kind of easily knocked and that always took me a bit longer to get back on the horse. So I think that's why I was at the job centre for so long.

I don't know why I definitely did not like it. It made me really depressed. I mean, look, I'm sure there's great jobs within the employment service, but for me, I was kind of a bit embarrassed that I was still there, you know, and that it was six years. Yeah. Were you ever in a movie while you were there? No, I wasn't in anything. Were you going out for auditions?

No, nothing. You had an agent? No. But you'd been to not drama school, but you've been to youth theatre school? And I've done the youth theatre thing, which is where I met Dennis Kelly because he was part of the same youth theatre group. In London or was that in Dublin? In London, yeah, in Fulham. But then it took us a while to reconnect after that youth theatre experience and at that point you know Dennis had started writing and which I thought was really exciting and then I thought well I

could do that too, you know, maybe. Well I'm thinking it's like, well you were young, talented, attractive, you could have, you know, people who haven't got work yet get agents, don't they? People who are fresh out of... Oh yeah, no, actually I did have an agent, that's terrible. I had an agent for a little while off the back of the radio thing. Right, there you go. So I did this radio pilot with a comedian called Alan Francis and around about that time I was doing Plays Above Pubs and I asked Alan Francis' agent to come along and she

agreed to sign me kind of reluctantly and we changed my name to Shannon so I'd sound more Irish. Sharon Shannon was quite a big deal at the time. So I was like Shannon Horrigan. And so she would call me and go, um, Shannon. And I'd be like, I can't, I can't take the name. And, um, yeah, I got sent up for a couple of commercials and, and everyone got sent for jobs on the bill at the time. It was the bill or casualty and I never got anything and then she dumped me. He was still at the job centre at this point? I was still at the job centre, yeah.

And living at a squat? Yeah. We moved from the Manor House squat to a Camden squat, which was a lot more short-lived. And then we moved, I was there for about four months, then we moved to another squat that we got like violently turfed out of. Well, I was, I'm curious about the squat thing. Like whose house would it actually be then? Well, they were council properties that weren't being used. But the final place that we did occupy did belong to someone else. It had just been sitting there a long time and so that person sent a load of heavies around. Yeah it was terrifying actually. We got

like, like the door got kicked in and they rushed in and they all had like you know um whatever the UK equivalent of a baseball bat is and uh. It's a rounders bat. Yeah it was. They had they all they'd just come from a rounders match and uh... It's a rounders bat. Yeah, it was. They had a feral. They'd just come from around as much. And they looked like they were going to kick our heads in. So we were sort of throwing it onto the street and I was like, OK, I'm not going to do this anymore. How many of you were there in the squat? I think there was about six of us there. It was a really nice little spot.

I'd like to have lived in a squat, I think, in the nineties. Yeah, it was great. It was really, it was a real sort of, um... I don't know how I would have gone about. How do you do it? It's not in the yellow pages is it? Like how do you... Well I, when I moved to London some friends of mine were already here and that's what they were doing so they kind of introduced me to it. So I was staying with them and they're a squat. And really the whole, the whole trick was that you, you know, you, you, I guess, essentially you break in, but you, you change the locks and you don't leave any damage. So, you know, as long as you're not damaging the property and you, and you get in and then once you're in, you kind of

get your electricity and gas and everything sorted out. And there was a whole sort of kind of movement at that time. And there was, you know, a big sort of support network for people who were looking for housing. And I was like earning okay at the job centre. And then eventually I did sort of move into a housing co-op. But it was a good way for people on low incomes to get a start. I mean, it was a kind of creative community, but it was also a lot of weed being smoked. It was just like a bunch of hippies, a lot of musicians, sort of, a lot of people

just sort of sitting around playing music and yeah. But, and pulling, I hadn't, had passed me by at the time, I watched a few, it really holds up. It's about three girlfriends who live in a, is it a squat or just a didger flap? No, it's just like low level shared accommodation. Going out, having kind of, embarrassing or humiliating, whether it's sexual, romantic encounters or work experiences. You did three runs of that, was it? Well, we did two on a special. We were supposed to do a third and then the BBC pulled it, so we got to finish it with a special. It sounded like that was painful and slightly nonsensical. I mean, we said it had 367,000

viewers and comparably actually I think was doing well on the channel, right? BBC Three was... Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, it was definitely very sort of critically acclaimed as well. It was beloved, and things like that need a chance to grow, don't they? For people to find them. And also it was definitely... I mean, I loved the first season, but I thought the second season was even better and I think the special was even better, so I think it would have grown in confidence. Like that was Dennis and my first ever thing. So are you conscious of being constrained by commercial and limitations of form? Like I only say it in the sense of it feels like, you know, that if you're given it,

whether it's a multi-part Apple drama or a sitcom, by definition, there's certain requirements for the form to work, right? Yeah. sitcom, by definition, there's certain requirements for the form to work, right? Yeah. I'm just curious whether if you were given a feature, you would be able to do something that felt even more somehow true to life or less constrained by those formal requirements? I don't know. I don't know. And it also depends on the feature and it depends on who you're making it with. And, you know, I mean, you can have a certain amount of control and then that control has

kind of taken off you a bit when it's tested for audiences. And you know, I feel like you're always having to please someone. I mean, there's varying degrees of it. I mean, Dennis and I weirdly, we'd never made anything before. We kind of had complete control of that. It was like, would you say that was the freest experience you had in TV? Motherland was pretty freeing though, as well. I mean, they just kind of let us get on with it as well. But then sometimes I like to have someone telling me what to do a little bit, you know, when they really know what they're on about. And I feel like we're both aiming for the same thing. And then sometimes it's very,

you're very constrained and sort of pushed in a certain direction. But you know, the thing about TV is it takes all shapes and forms, you know, and sometimes when you're working with a streamer, there's a lot more flexibility there. and forms, you know, and sometimes when you're working with a streamer, it can, there's a lot more flexibility there. You know, you can sort of have your 45 minute episode and you can have your, you know, 56 minute one and you know, you're allowed a certain amount of leeway. Not with all streamers, but... Would you ever direct? I have directed, yeah. What have you directed? Well I directed Modern Love, the Amazon series I directed an episode of that with Tina Fey and John Slattery. I really liked it.

I mean I'd done a short before and I really enjoyed that. The thing is like, when you direct, I think you immediately just go, right, well, this is kind of what I want to do now. This is great because you really do feel very in control of the story and all aspects of it because I've only ever directed what I've written. But it really, it takes an awful lot of time up. And it also means that you can't really do anything else. So with Bad Sisters, for example, I mean, you know, we had incredible directors on that. And it would have been lovely to have a go. But when you sort of show running something or, you know, when you're like the lead writer on something and you're in it, there's just so much to think about.

And, you know, the director job sort of continues long after everyone has sort of gone home, you know. I mean, it's definitely, you know, a scratchy itch or an itchy scratch that I have but I kind of, it's about finding the right thing at the right time and not just for the sake of it you know I don't I don't sort of have a career plan you know I don't I don't think about things in that way I kind of whatever comes along comes along you know. For sure and you would be less productive for sure like if you were directing I think it's part of what you're saying, because actually you just can't be across as many projects.

Yeah, and that's slightly the problem. And why I haven't directed a feature yet is because, you know, I set time aside and in feature world takes so long, everything takes so long, you know, just getting the financing. And by that point, I'm like, I want to do this next thing and then I kind of, my time goes and then, you know, it's another year down the line and yeah, that's what happens. I mean, I always feel like I've gotten to make what was in my head, except when I was working in the US and making pilots, then that was kind of different. You kind of ended up with a product at the end that wasn't

what you started out with. So after pulling and doing two seasons plus the special, you got scooped up by America. That must have felt quite nice. Like what happened, ABC or what was it? Some network said we liked pulling, do that something like that over here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I made, I think I made five or six pilots, which is a lot. And like each year you do one for sort of five years. Yeah, well, no, no, no, like each, each year you go there and make one and then it would get turned down. Which always felt like weirdly like a relief, you know? This is so weird. But so many times I got a call which was your pilot's getting picked up.

I were taking it from script to pilot where I would get off the call and start crying because I don't want to make that anymore, but I would do it. And then there was so many times where I got a call saying we're not going to take your pilot anymore. Really? Yeah, because they just never felt like the thing I wanted to spend the next X amount of years doing, they just never, they kind of became something else. Within that process of making it, you kind of lost what it was that kind of made them fun and a bit like singular in the first place and they just, all the corners, you know, kind of rubbed down kind of and they just all the corners, you know, kind of rub down kind of stories.

How do you like the L.A. culture? You have you still got a house in L.A.? Yeah. Yeah. How is it? Because it's up in the hills, isn't it? Yeah. No, it's it's quite close to where the fires are. It was. Yeah, it was on the other side, though, of the Hollywood sign. And yeah, it's terrible. What's the longest you've spent in L.A.? I only ever went for a few months at a time. Like when I was making Divorce, that was in New York. So I was there for much longer when I was making this series.

Why did it film in New York? Because that's where Sarah Jessica lived. So she gets to say, okay, this is where we're going to film it. Yeah, but it was kind of like. Yeah, sort of the story. You worked with Paul Sims. Yeah. Oh, I didn't mean it like that. No, I only mentioned it because when I was in my 20s, my dream was to work on a sitcom

and to be a writer. And at that time, I thought, well, I'd love to work on Larry Sanders, which was the spawning ground with Gary Shandling was the star and executive producer. And then the two big writers on it, one was Judd Apatow, later became known as a Hollywood auteur of some distinction and then Paul Sims. And then I thought, well, I can't write a spec script for Larry Sanders. I can't aim that high. But then Paul Sims left to do news radio. So I wrote a news radio spec script. You did? How'd it go?

Well I spent about two months writing it and heard nothing. Like I just wanted to get some representation. Yeah, of course. So anyway, months went by and then I came home one day on my answering machine, this being the 90s, was Paul Sims saying like, so, Louis, I got your script and I liked it, so why don't you come by and we can have a chat, like that. And so that was going to be my Hollywood dream coming true. Yeah, what happened? Well, I went out for a meeting at News Radio and it seemed to go fine and then I was a little struck by the

atmosphere in the writers room. I was expecting a kind of Algonquin round table, slightly glamorous feeling, do you know what I mean? I thought it was going to be, I don't know what I was expecting, right? But I just remember it felt a bit like a squat. There was tin foil on the windows, it was quite dark. Anyway, that was the first thing where I was like, well, this isn't, doesn't look quite as fun as maybe I expected. Anyway, that's an anecdote without, without much of a punchline. But I know what you mean about writer's rooms. I mean, they're, they're completely different kind of things now, but I remember being highly intimidated by it. And when I, you know, got an opportunity to run one, I just felt there's got to be a way to do this

that doesn't involve these kind of hours and working this late. It seems insane. And it felt like it was kind of created by a bit of a male culture of just not wanting to go home to do bath time maybe or you know like they were too young to have bath time okay but then also that like just you know i don't know like man cave kind of style it's kind of like a party at work kind of atmosphere like we have fun here like but it's also like we don't do anything. We just sit around and chat shit. And then when it comes down to it, there's a deadline. And so we'll stay here all night and get it done. And it's really dysfunctional, I think, and sort of unhealthy.

I'd much rather have a shorter length writer's room where you work really hard for a month and just get it done and really, you know, get on a roll. I don't really love the sort of late, late nights, incredibly long hours kind of. I think I'm just very cautious with my time, like way more than I used to be, but I was always in some way cautious of time. I think because I spent so long at the job centre, like I just refused to use my time badly. Well, words that come up, it was, it might have been Dennis Kelly who said of you that you are fearless and driven. Does that sound about right? I'm not fearless, I'm driven. Where do you think your drive comes from? You know, my dad, I suppose, and my siblings and myself.

In what way? In the way that they're all sort of successful in their fields. And, you know, my dad had an extraordinary work ethic and he had no time for any kind of laziness or, you know, and, you otherwise I kind of end up sort of thinking about like death. Or I just go on my phone and if I'm on my phone and like, if I'm doing anything that isn't sort of, you know, creatively nourishing or intellectually stimulating, I feel terrible, you know. You've got four siblings, you're number two in the order. Yeah. Which I think is, that's what I am.

I think maybe that is more clown mode, isn't it? Yes, oh very, yeah, I was a clown. You also had, I didn't have younger siblings, so I wonder if you were also having to fight a bit more for attention. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Because the last two that came along were boys as well, so they waited a long time to get their boys.

So you know, you definitely had to work harder. Right. When you go back to Ireland, is it like Beatlemania? It's not like Beatlemania, but like Irish women love the shows, you know, and especially Bad Sisters. And last time I was out, maybe not last time, but the time before, we got accosted by a wedding party. Like I popped into this restaurant to see if I could bring myself and my mum in there for a bit of lunch and there happened to be a wedding going on. So I like skedaddled and then the bride is a big Bad Sisters fan. So like about 20 women came running out and

they were lovely, but it just it was it was intense because it was like a mob and I was like, well, I'm here with my mom and I just want to get my mom something to eat. And then they're like, we'll look after your mom. And they kind of took my mom off and were kind of, you know, thinking if they could keep my mom occupied that they could have me for a bit longer. And it was it was just wild and hilarious. I love when people are passionate about the show, like it makes me really happy. I've heard that a couple of times. We've got a wedding reception downstairs, like you're in a pub or something and we'd love it if you came down for a bit. What do you do in

that situation? Well… It depends how much I've had to drink. Yeah, I think that's really true. I had a good night once. I was coming back from someone's stag. It was about two in the morning and then from somewhere in Covent Garden, like there was a flat and it was, Oi, is it Louis Theroux?

Oi! Do you want to come up? Anyway, I went up and there was some guys, they were sitting around, then they started chopping out cocaine. And I was like, oh no, I'm good, thanks. But I had a few drinks and hung with them for a few hours. For a few hours? At least a couple, yeah, until like four in the morning. It was really fun. Sounds weird.

They told me a story about how once a year they would party with Rolf Harris. What the hell? I know. Were they Australian? No. What's the connection? I don't know. They worked in catering, they were like cooks, culinary people, they party hard those, you know, cooks. Oh yeah, yeah. That's so weird, once a year they party. The idea was like, would you like to have the same arrangement where once a year we hang out and get fucked up? Oh.

I was like, no, that's not my life. That's not me. Was Jimmy Savillon in Ireland? Did they have Jim or fix it? Yes. Was it popular? Yeah. Did you write in? No. Why not?

I never wrote into anything ever. I mean, I've done it in a sort of prank way. I've done it. I've done like hidden camera TV and as an adult, as an adult performer, as a performer. Yeah, I've done that too. I don't like doing that. I don't like pranking. Do you like prank stuff in general? Do you enjoy? I used to really like that. I can't deal with it. What about Ali G and Bora? I used to like all that, but I can't deal with it now. What about Ali G and Bora and that kind of thing? I used to like all that. And what about now? Not so much.

It just makes me cringe a bit. I mean, also it makes me think about what I did in the past. You know, that's kind of how I started out, was doing that sort of prank TV. Really? With friends? No, on TV. On what? Channel 4.

Like a really early Channel 4 show. What was it called? Well, it was actually called The Pilot Show. It was pretty funny actually. And it went on TV? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we would just like, you know, create these sort of fake pilots and involve, you know, celebrities and members of the public in them as shows that were really sort of happening. And we had one called Who who wants to go to the moon, where we had members of the public come in, who, and the show was that we were taking people to the moon. And

I mean, people actually recorded goodbye messages to their loved ones. We're like, you're going to the moon. We go like, All right, mansy, I'm going to the moon. It would go like, all right, Manzi, I'm going to the moon. I went out my cab, say goodbye to Sandra and they would like, you know, be willing to, people are pretty willing to do anything to get on TV. Did they think that they were really going to the moon? 100% they thought they were going to the moon. That does sound funny. I'm changing my mind. I like pranks again. And, you know, and there was this whole other sort of hidden camera bit, which was celebrity advice bureau, and we would get like celebrities in to give advice to members of the celebrity advisors and I was the member of the public and I was talking to him about my prolapsed womb and it's worth a look. That sounds funny.

Yeah. I mean funny but also kind of awful, you know, like I feel guilty. He didn't give me very good advice though. Frank Bruno? Yeah. Funny that. It's all, that's the problem with non-fiction comedy if you could call it that is oh shit, there's real people. I know. Yeah. And you've got the advantage as a writer of kind of creating

situations. You can humiliate made up people. Yeah, myself. Yeah, yourself. Yeah, I can humiliate myself. Yeah. 2017, an article about Woody Allen. He said, Woody Allen warns against witch hunt post Weinstein. You tweeted, fuck off, Woody Allen. Wow. I don't know if anyone's said it better. Were you a fan of his stuff? Are you still a fan at all? There's some good stuff there. I know. I can't watch it now. Can you? I can't.

Although the weird fucking thing is, is that I still watch Rosemary's Baby, like, at least once a year. Do you? Maybe more. So that's odd. That's Roman Polanski. He's obviously not on screen, but what he did was, as I understand it, pretty horrific. Yeah. Because Husbands and Wives era, Woody Allen, for me is one of the kind of gold standards of that kind of comedy, which is, do you remember the scene where Liam Neeson turns up to go on a date with a woman who's divorcing her

husband and they're in the middle of a horrendous argument and he's having to stand there like a gooseberry as she screams at the guy? I mean, it's an inspiration, you know, it's something like back in the day, I used to watch just in terms, even how he staged it, you know, even how he sort of staged dialogue, you know, and the flow of it and the locations he used and just the naturalism. I mean, it's all a huge inspiration, but I just don't want to buy into his thing anymore. Weirdly, I did a film, a part in one of his films. I don't even know what it's called. But I got asked to audition for a new Woody Allen film.

And I was so excited. And it was like really, really early, early days. And my agent said, look, there's not a lot of words, but the great thing about, you know, Woody Allen films is, you know, you turn up, you've got your character and like, let's just see what happens, you know. And I did that and I turned up and I was overwhelmed with actually even being there. And he came over once and whispered a couple of words to the lead actress and that was it. But yeah, I couldn't make myself, I couldn't push myself forward. I was too

overburdened with the, you know, the weight of even sort of being there and how, you know, at the time he was such a hero of mine. So that, yeah, that didn't work out. I don't think I even ended up on on screen. What film was it? I can't remember. I can't remember. No, is that bad? I remember less of other stuff. You could, if you could remember. We'll look it up. You know, if we wanted to, it feels

as though there was a kind of correction that took place in the culture, right? And people were more open to the idea of women's voices and women's stories and was an effort towards inclusivity. Does that, does that resonate with you? Yeah, that happened. And that did happen, right? Yeah. Now we seem to be, have you got any sense that there might be something else happening?

Have you noticed the vibe shift? Into what? A post Trump kind of backlash. Oh, back to a boys club kind of thing. Bro culture. I don't know if it's in Hollywood. I don't know. Might be too early to say. The thing with any of this is like, if you let your guard down for a minute and think,

you know, that the tide has changed and things are better now, it just sort of slips back. Because the pool was so heavily sort of male anyway and it takes such an enormous amount of effort to you know turn that two percent even into 10 percent and then like 25 percent you know female driven stories and so if you stop it for a minute, it just sort of slips back into the experience sort of male hands. So it's something you have to like push against all the time. Have you been following the whole Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni situation? A little bit actually.

Because that is, that is, it's not positive. What's your read of that? I can't, I don't, oh god. The irony is like it was a movie that was about a coercive controlling relationship in which he plays the coercive controller, right? He's also the director of the film. And then they released the film, then there was speculation while they were promoting it that there was something had happened. But then, then it became, oh, actually, I had a terrible experience, she says, making the film. And then he's like, Oh, no, you're just trying to slander me. And actually, you were the awful one. It's kind of awful. And then it's oddly compelling

to read about. I've gone down a few wormholes with it. I don't have an opinion, though. I don't have an opinion though. I don't have an opinion because I mean, at the moment, it's sort of it's being played out as a soap opera. So I'm watching it for that. And everyone's watching and because everyone's watching, it's being, you know, stoked more. So it's more and more kind of content is coming out about it. because they realise people like this story, it needs more content, more and more kind of pointless bullshit is going to come out as well. Do you know what I mean? So like I kind of hate myself for being part of that audience. You know, I kind of hate that I'm watching it because it's, you know, I'm just like feeding the beast. What about when Gwyneth Paltrow skied into the man?

That was gas. That was unreal. Someone should make a drama about that. That was brilliant. Brilliant entertainment, wasn't it? Dep V. Hurd. Who? Dep Hurd. Johnny Dep Amber Hurd.

What about it? I did get into it though. I did get into it. Which one? Dep V. Hurd heard Johnny Depp Amber heard I did get into it though. I did I did get into it. Dep V heard. Yeah, I did I Watched a lot of that trial. Did you? Again, I hate myself for doing that. Why did I do that? Like often all kind of like when I was making Bounce Sisters I got really into true crime and I allowed it because I was like, this is research. You know, I'd never written a thriller before or anything around a murder or any kind of cop story. And so I felt I was fully justified in watching and listening to terrible stories about women killing their husbands. What podcasts and documentary series? Yes, as much as I could get into my eye holes and ear holes.

And but it was, you know, it kind of took me to a really dark place. And it was kind of like I could only be sated by by that kind of content. And I could only fall asleep if I was listening to, you know, a story about some brutal murder in my ears. And I and I and I had to fall asleep before I was listening to a story about some brutal murder in my ears and I had to get out of it. So at the moment I'm developing this thing which is much more grounded and to do with relationships and stuff. So I'm more like I want to watch love stories and I want to read about you know breakdowns of relationships and anytime I find myself going online to watch anything that's you know not connected to that I know it's just like salacious kind of I'm just like feeding my

beast. So like the the Depp and Herd thing like what did I get from that? Like nothing, you know? Well, maybe. Okay, I wanted to talk about kind of deep things and as a grown-up, I know you came through a divorce 2019. It was kind of smart getting the divorce out of the way pre-lockdown. No, I only, my divorce only came through in November. Last year? Yeah. Yeah, but that's like decree-nessy, decree and all that stuff. Yes, decree absolute. That'll do-nessy. But yeah, that came through when I was over in New York promoting the second season of...

But you separated in 2019? Yeah. Actually, it's really interesting reading the cuttings, you know, the old articles and whatnot. You did an interview, I don't know if it was the New York Times or the New Yorker, and you're talking about how difficult it is being in a marriage and how difficult and the strain. And I know there was a lot you went through because you were apart

for a significant chunk of time. It was a very difficult time when you were writing Catastrophe, filming Divorce in New York and you were away for a lot. Can I just say though that a lot of the interviews at that time would have been skewed towards that because I was making a show called Divorce. That would be it. So, you know, I think that what I was saying was that long term relationships are hard and anyone who's been in a long term marriage knows what it's like to want a divorce. You might not know how it feels to go through it. And really you don't. It's a massive, massive, massive upheaval. And so I would recommend that you really like, you know, you have to really want out to go through it because it's a huge

upheaval of life and it drags on for years. And that's kind of what I wanted the show to be about, you know, this never ending divorce kind of thing. But yeah, I kind of, I feel like I try not to talk about personal stuff. But I think when you make shows that are about marriage, like Catastrophe, or about motherhood, or about divorce, you kind of, to a certain extent, you kind of address your version of that experience. And so I guess that's why I was talking about that then. Do you have any advice for people getting divorced? I guess that might be a helpful way of talking about it.

Wow. I've gone a bit Stephen Bartlett. My advice for someone getting divorced. Is think about it very carefully. Think about it really carefully. And if you... Don't move out of the house. Don't, don't...

Do you know that one? Because then they can't get back in. Actually it happens in divorce, you're serious. Yes, that's right. Have you heard that? You're surrendering occupational rights. Yeah. Well ours was, you know, because we did that nesting thing where, because we didn't want it to impact on the kids unnecessarily. So we did sort of move out of the house and then move back in every week kind of thing. That the kids didn't have to go anywhere. But no, I would say just be really on it and don't hand over anything without, you know, making sure you've got a smart lawyer. I think that's really important. Have a smart lawyer who's on it. You know,

you can go into it with a lot of naivety and you can take your eye off the ball. You're talking financially, custodially or the whole package? Just everything. Sometimes I think lawyers create more conflict. Well that's the thing that I was interested in in divorce, like the personalities and the egos, you know, that are involved in that. I mean, it must be really, I mean, it's a pretty juicy job, isn't it? And there's definitely a whole area that is driven by the personality of your lawyer, I think, you know, so. But, know, it's done now and it's, it was nice to get it done.

It was nice to... After 14 years. No, I mean, like the divorce. It was nice to get... Not the relationship. Well, you know, I mean, clearly it was nice to get that done as well, but you know, it was nice to just finally have the divorce bit done. I think you said one time, like, in Ireland, maybe a divorce is more frowned on than it would be perhaps in England. Well, I mean, it wasn't even a possibility for years. You know, it was, you couldn't get a divorce.

Really? When did they change that? I think it was like late 90s. I mean, my sister made an amazing documentary called Housewife of the Year about a program that was on RTE called Housewife of the Year, and it was still going up until the late 90s and where, you know, women would just sort of compete against each other in their housewifery skills. But the documentary was about so much more and how the church ruled, and the impact it had on women in particular, and what their roles were supposed to be. And so yeah, I'm not saying that that impacted on me, but there was a sense that, just a sense that you just don't get divorced.

Like you do everything you can to avoid it. And I think that sort of somehow got into my bloodstream and it's kind of crazy. You know, it's a really short one life that you have. And do you do that? Do you sort of do you are you a whatever? Like, do you do that thing where you sort of think about how things might have gone? Like, say, for example, what you were talking about earlier, that that moment where you were almost, you know, a sitcom writer, like it happens to people in my job a lot, because, you know, you sort of jobs that you either turn down

or decide not to do or don't get, you just see them in posters all over the place and on a screen and, you know, see, you do have that sort of feeling of like that in a parallel life that happened, they made that choice and what would have, you know, transpired if I'd gone that route? Well, I do that in my personal life as well. I kind of, yeah, yeah. I sort of like if I'd gotten out earlier and if I'd met so and so instead of, you know, because I guess, you know, we're both 1970 years and, you know, time's ticking on and, you know, it took me a long time to adjust my life and it seems crazy to me now you know it seems bonkers to me and you know I blame the church. Do you?

No I don't but you know just from what we were saying earlier whatever it was that was in my head as a sort of reason to not get divorced and like part of it is of course you feel like, you know, this is what's best for the kids. You know, this is like to keep the family together. Well, what is a family? Like, what does that mean? It doesn't need to be a man and a woman living in the same house, you know, unhappily. That's like, I feel much more of a family now, you know? Yeah. like I feel much more of a family now, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because family is my, you know, my brothers and sisters

and the support network that the Horgan family bring me, you know, and my girls feel that as well. And if I'd sort of been more aware of, you know, the like, the beauty of that and, you know, how that can be as more functional than a relationship that's kind of you know dying. I mean you want your kids to see you happy don't you because then they bring that into their you know into their lives and their future relationships and instead you know what

you stick around in an unhappy marriage and you give your kids an idea of like that's what it means to be to be in a relationship and not that it always works out like that but I do think there's a lot I should have figured out better. What do you think was stopping you from doing that? Well you mentioned the Catholic thing but maybe well inertia also you're so busy right and you mentioned the Catholic thing, but maybe, well, inertia, also you're so busy, right, and you just don't, you haven't got the time. It is a little bit, it is a little bit like, you know, I stayed at the job centre for way too long as well, so I think there is a little bit of, I'm not great with change, which is weird because now

I'm just like, I think I'm the opposite, I'm just like, wanna keep things moving all the time and trying new things and challenging myself and get myself out of my comfort zone. But for a long time, I wasn't like that because I think it took a while for me to start being a proper adult. You know, and so I was scared of being alone, I think. You know, I was scared of being alone I think you know I was scared of what it meant to have to manage a life on my own you know. How's your energy? I think we might be closer to the time.

Yeah I mean I'm dying for a pee that's my main sort of big wee energy. Can I ask one more question? I was going to do the wee first. big we energy. Can I ask one more question? I was going to do the we first. Ask it. Do you think there's like a road where, because you talked about other lives or like hypotheticals and you know, having worked throughout your 20s in the job centre, I remember the first interview I heard with you, I remember thinking, wow, is there a world where Sharon Horgan is not the Sharon Horgan that we know? Do you know what I mean? And observing the world bestriding success that you enjoy now. What does the other path look like? Do

you know what I mean? Yeah. I actually do think about that a lot because it does feel unreal. I don't know if you get that. I mean, sitting here with your Louis Theroux podcast screen behind you. You know, it's a mad old life that we live. So it does feel a little bit like that there should have been another life for me that I would be sort of more comfortable in or more, you know. I think you would have found the way though, eventually. What I was doing was I was heading into sort of production of some kind, you know? I'd kind of given up on the dream of being an actor and I didn't really think the writing thing was ever going to pan out, so I was going to find my

way. Like my sister was making documentaries and I thought, you know, I can probably find my way. Like my sister was making documentaries and I thought I can probably find my way to be in the industry in some way. And I think I'm a good producer and I think that I would have been doing that. I don't think I would have been regional manager in the employment service. I don't think that would have been my parallel life, but one where I'm not creating shows and I'm not on screen, definitely. I mean, could it have so easily have happened? Because it's sort of, I gave up so many times, but somehow, somehow it worked out. And you get in the room and then you realize, oh, wow, I'm not just good enough. Like, I have something to offer, right? Yeah. I don't know if it's like me, but

you have moments of self doubt and then you think, well, I think I see something that other people don't see. Yeah, it's weird. But it's also weird to have that dialogue where you're like, hey, I'm doing this thing that people say I can do. Like I have that sort of weird dialogue running in my head the whole time. Like if I think of something, if I think of a way out of a problem, like if I'm able to troubleshoot what's wrong with a, what's not working in a script, you know, I'm like, oh, oh yeah, you can, you just did that. Or you just, you know, figured that out. Like that's why it feels like, you know, kind of like I'm, like, I almost shouldn't

be here because I'm constantly commentating on what's happening. But maybe everyone does that, do they? I think I do it that feed out of body, out of body experience, sort of noticing what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise, and I read a thing that you said where you were in therapy, and you just couldn't stop observing yourself in therapy. Observing myself talking like I'm in a scene where therapy is happening. Yeah, it's awful. It's great when it stops. You just need to find the right drugs. I mean, I take beta blockers now to sort of they sort of help me in a way No, no, no, no, but like, you know, they just slow your heart down. Yeah, but they they sort of

The thing is is that when you have an increased heart rate and when you when all those things start happening to you physically That's when you kind of step outside of yourself because you're like telling yourself to calm down you know, you're telling yourself to yourself because you're like telling yourself to calm down. You know, you're telling yourself to to sort of be less nervous and you're kind of like admonishing yourself and all that is making you sort of making you feel a bit disembodied. And so so that, yeah, they do they do just something very practical physically.

But I think the the sort of mental stuff that goes with it, you know, has had a real kind of calming effect on me in situations that would normally kind of terrify me. Like what? Well, I mean, Eve Hewson, when we were at the Critics' Choice Awards last year, me and her were going out to present an award. And, you know, that place is insane. It's like Cate Blanchett's there, and there's Nicole Kidman, there's Steven Spielberg, and it's insane. And you're going out to present an award and you need to be funny and you need to also

feel relaxed so that everyone else relaxes. And, you know, I took it and I went out on stage and I was like, I'm actually fine, happy to be here. Whereas before, I swear to God, I couldn't, it was fine, happy to be here. Whereas before, I swear to God, I couldn't. It was the worst. It was like I would hear my voice, my heart would be going crazy, I'd be sweating, I'd be... my voice would... Wobble? Wobble, but also like get higher or, you know, like I wasn't getting enough oxygen to my brain and yeah, it was nothing. It wasn't like I was flat, it was just like I'm absolutely fine, all I have to do is like say these words that I know are funny.

So then from then on I kind of take them in any sort of situation that feels a bit, you know, that would create some kind of anxiety. I might try that. Yeah, I have the same thing where if I'm, especially if it feels like it's a huge illustrious audience of industry people and you're straight out released like a bull in a rodeo. Yeah. And then I find even as a middle-aged man, this strange, yeah, this feeling of so annoying, you know, because I'm fine talking on stage. Yeah. But it's that is the artificiality and then the heightened sense of like observing yourself beginning to lose it or hearing yourself and then you get in a feedback loop of anxiety.

And then you're like thinking ahead of what you might forget and how you might fuck up. And it's weird because everyone says like, you know, everyone's faking it to a certain extent and everyone feels the same. Like all of those people that you're worried about are as sort of anxious as you. I don't think that's true. I think some are and some aren't. I think many are. It surprises me that you would be. Really? Oh, wow. Only because I think of actors being less afflicted by that.

Oh, yeah, no, I'm very, very afflicted by it. I know you need to do the... So maybe... Do the toilet. We arrived at a place of encouraging people to take beaded blockers if they're presenting a high-profile award in Hollywood, which is maybe not the most relatable note to end on. But thank you for joining me, Sharon. Thanks for having me. So there it was, the amazing Sharon Horgan. Hope you enjoyed that. So should we do some footnotes to the episode? The Woody Allen film. It's so annoying, we can't seem

to find out which one it is. And I didn't want to text Sharon and say, hey Sharon, what was the Woody Allen film? I know you can't remember. Do you remember who else was in it? Because we can figure it out and then we can maybe use those clues to figure out what it was. Because it would have given the message that the main takeaway was that she worked with Woody Allen, which is not the main takeaway, right? It's just one of the takeaways. Nevertheless, you can tick Woody Allen off the bingo card also. I don't think Roman Polanski is on the bingo card. Jimmy Savile is. Rolf Harris? If you heard the idea from that that Rolf Harris would party with the cooks and take cocaine with them, that's not the message. But what was he doing? And they give me a hard time about Jimmy Savile. Come

on, follow the breadcrumbs. Was there no other thing on the bingo card? Oh, Gwyneth Paltrow skiing into the man. I said it might make a good drama. Bing! Turns out it was turned into a West End musical called I Wish You Well, starring X-Factor's Diana Vickers. Sadly, it's finished its run. I want to say more about that, but I don't know what else to say. A legal note, as of 2012, squatting in a residential building is now a criminal offence. Please don't squat in buildings and consume enormous amounts of weed and ganj. It's not funny and it's not cool.

I had to say that. That might be about it other than credits. The producer was Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Amelia Gill. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. And the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a MINDHOUSE production for Spotify.