The Louis Theroux Podcast - S4 EP7: Sean Evans discusses his upbringing in Chicago, interview techniques, and no-go guests on ‘Hot Ones’

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Louis speaks to Sean Evans, the host of Youtube smash-hit ‘Hot Ones’. Dialling in from New York, the pair swap interview techniques, as well as discussing Sean’s upbringing in Chicago and how he utilised chicken wings to create one of the biggest talk shows in the world. Plus, Sean lets Louis know which celebrities were ratings hits and who he’d never have on the show...  Warnings: Strong language.    Links/Attachments:  YouTube Series: Louis Theroux Attacks the Shark While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2023)  https://youtu.be/wlL9RUGxXSs?si=sVQYvUdArc4Wr_Dl     YouTube Series: Anthony Rizzo On Chicago Cubs Rivalries & Baseball Superstitions While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2015)  https://youtu.be/4iSCOtYs_6Q?si=hA2IVueisoOo4WVG     YouTube Series: Prince Amukamara Talks NFL Salaries & Pre-Game Sex While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2015)  https://youtu.be/kmBlwAFRFJU?si=lvE5Ot11dnWkeTnk     YouTube Series: Trick Daddy Prays for Help While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2018)  https://youtu.be/SywOj6EpkOc?si=-DHaIisP36RwCQdD     YouTube Series: DJ Khaled Talks Fuccbois, Finga Licking, and Media Dinosaurs While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2015)  https://youtu.be/1HYEC_FlgAg?si=CCcTdghBl4ifWjO5     Book: Paper Lion, George Plimpton (1966)    Book: Shadow Box, George Plimpton (1977)    YouTube Series: Conan O'Brien Needs a Doctor While Eating Spicy Wings - Hot Ones (2024)  https://youtu.be/FALlhXl6CmA?si=ZdOg3BD0sCihdUZH      YouTube Series: Sean Evans and Chili Klaus Eat the Carolina Reaper, the World's Hottest Chili Pepper – Hot Ones (2015)  https://youtu.be/9k-SBpElcWA?si=sUU4Ks6k4AqbcXas     Article: In the hot seat: Behind Hot Ones’ ambitions to be the future of late-night TV – The Verge (2019)  https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/31/20938739/hot-ones-sean-evans-youtube-guests-gordon-ramsey-idris-elba-late-night-tv     'Chili Klaus & Classical Orchestra 🌶' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuvUaFp_qMQ   Credits:  Producer: Millie Chu   Assistant Producer: Emilia Gill  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D’Oliveira   Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Scott Edwards   Shownotes compiled by Maisie Williams  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk       Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1212. Are we rolling? Hello, Louis Theroux here and welcome back to my podcast called The Louis Theroux Podcast. Today I'm joined by Sean Evans, the co-creator and host of the YouTube sensation Hot Ones. It's a show on YouTube where he talks to people. If you haven't heard of Hot Ones, where have you been? It's the show with hot questions and even hotter wings. A celebrity interview format where the guest has to eat their way through a platter of spicy wings, each one spicier than the last. And the idea is that the increasing inferno in the guest's mouth disables them from answering

coherently, which is funny. Or possibly that being disarmed by what's happening in their mouth they are more likely to answer the question in a way that feels authentic and surprising. Anyway it's just funny to see people suffer is the bottom line. Since its inception the show has produced 26 seasons and 358 episodes as of time of recording, amassing over 4 billion views. Sean estimates he's eaten over 3,000 wings during the show's run. And yes I have been a guest on Hot Ones, my episode is available on YouTube, we reference it. I'll tell you at the end how many views we have because that comes up and maybe the suspense Will be helpful in keeping your interest to listen to the whole episode. This one was recorded in August of last year

Sean joined me remotely from the Spotify studio in New York. I was keen to speak to him because I admire his broadcasting technique and his ability to carve out a significant place for himself in the new media landscape, just as I spoke to Amelia de Moldenburg a little while ago, and other influencers and people who represent something in the culture, and Sean definitely has done that, and he's a smart guy, he's funny, and it was a chance to turn the tables on him, after my experience. And I liked his vibe. And we need to get some American listeners. Okay, do I have to spell it out? We need some US relevance. A warning, there is strong language in this episode, including, and I apologise for this, the use of the word weiner. You hear that in America a lot, here not so much, here in the UK. A wiener is a penis. It's a kind of sausage. It actually comes from

the term wiener or wiener dog or wiener schnitzel. If you speak German you'll know. Vienna in German is Wien and so a wiener technically speaking is something from Vienna, but they're famous for that sausage. And the sausage resembles my penis and other people's. And with that, enjoy the chat. How are you doing, man? Good, how are you? It's good to see you. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

It's going to be good to be on the other end of the questions. Dish some spiciness your way for a change. Are we all good to go? Are you ready? I'm ready whenever you're ready. The first thing I want to say is I don't know if I said this, but thank you for having me on. It was a huge thrill for me to go on and I haven't yet watched the episode, which may

sound odd, but that speaks more to my own anxiety. Like, I am going to watch it. And I thought, I'll watch it before I talk to Sean. And then I thought, you know what, that'll just distract me. And then the conversation will be about that episode. And so I will get to it. But it was a huge thrill. And I don't know if I ever said thank you for having me on. That's number one. Did I? Do you think I did? I'm sure you did. But I would say I'd return the compliment say thank you so much for doing It it was such a thrill to go out to London and that week was so fun the shoot with you Definitely a highlight and you should watch the episode. It's a classic and beloved hot ones interview. So

You got to jump that hurdle did it because I know Gordon Ramsay got a hundred and twenty six million Views I'm guessing mine would probably not that many, but easily 100 million, right? Yeah, I think it's up there. It's catching Gordon. It's closing. It's closing. You know you're five years behind, but yeah, that closing speed, the fourth leg here. I think it might be one of your lowest rated.

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And also too just... Are you saying that based on fact or kindness? Oh, as a matter of fact, there's no way it's one of the lowest and as a matter of kindness, it's not low rated. It's very high rated personally to my heart and as you can tell if you just look through the comments by fans as well. I feel like you are putting ointment on my two tender soul. I appreciate it so much. There are episodes that I love that I think are amongst the best that you know will have under 3 million views for example. Trick Daddy is one that I point

out is like one of my all-time like top 10 top 15 hot ones videos ever and it doesn't do those kinds of view numbers but that's not what it's really about. It's just about sort of scratching the ish for the people that watch it. And I like having a show that the stakes are high enough, you know, that people are watching it. I like that kind of pressure to perform weekend and week out and who knows the degree to which that pushes me even subconsciously. But that's never really the goal necessarily.

These are things that the internet takes them, transforms them, amplifies them. But I think just the day in and day out process of researching someone, walking a mile in their shoes, doing some armchair psychology afterwards, writing the questions that are just things that you're naturally curious about and then trying to execute against that vision of it. There's never a view goal that I have in my mind, just an execution and sort of performance

of the interview goal that I have in mind. So as long as it checks those boxes, that's really all I need to keep doing it. You've done over 350 episodes, 23 seasons. You've been doing it about 10 years. I want to talk about Sean the man as well. And actually, I don't want this all to be just geeking out on this episode, but I'd like to do a tiny bit of geeking out, if that's all right.

I've gone deep into the research, watching more episodes just in prep for this conversation. It's really striking how my favorites don't always line up with the ones that are perceived as the best ones. So for example, one of the least appreciated or one of the ones that's viewed as a kind of debacle was the DJ Khaled one, right? Right. I mean, everyone's going to know this. You have 10 wings and there's a progressive level of spiciness. Ideally, you get to eat them all and most people do manage to do that,

including yours truly. But DJ Khaled, after eating the first one, which is like the basically non-spicy one, he's like already freaking out. And then he gets more and more, it's kind of this weird toggling between self-protective machismo, and then almost like critiquing you for putting him up to it, like kind of raising questions about the whole construct of the format, right? So it's like, oh, well, he failed, but it's something so enjoyable about going on this kind of journey that he goes on. Yeah, no, that to me is one of just the canon episodes of Hot Ones. Like, to be a Hot Ones fan, I think you have to watch the DJ Khaled episode. I think it's a very important part of our entire story.

And I think that your take on it is right. Like I do remember walking in and he was on his second slice of pizza and me being a little bit worried just about that, you know, like eating a full meal before sitting down for hot ones. But my take on it in the moment and now is he was kind of like, Oh, this is some freak show that I got roped into. What am I doing here? And then sort of expressing that while it was happening. But I do think that it makes this push and pull between us pretty compelling to watch. And so in that way, you know, that's like an early season.

I think the first season of the show kind of episode, but to me, it's the most memorable and important of the ones that we did, even though on a performance level, no one has come even close. Like you said, we've been doing the show for almost 10 years. That was in the first couple months of doing the show. I've waited almost 10 years for someone to break DJ Khaled's reverse record and nobody has ever come close and I don't think anyone ever will come close.

He has a problem with the first wing. He starts looking a little twitchy, like he thinks he's being set up. He thinks like maybe you're not eating the same wings. So you swap wings with him. And then, which I thought was very gracious, he's almost like you've poisoned, you know, like enemies sitting down during battle. It's like, okay, well, you sip from my cup then. So then he's the third one, he taps out, he then says, it's very important what we teach the youth, because this right here is dangerous. By suggesting that you're encouraging people to jump off tall buildings or jump in lakes, right? Then, I freeze-framed it, I feel like you look, because as you say, it's early on, so part of you is probably still anxious about it working as a format.

I think there's a micro-expression in which you look either panicked or slightly annoyed. Because you're like, this isn't supposed to go like this. No, 100 hundred percent. Because when I mean the show, what's weird about doing a show that has a format like that is, I mean, you and I have probably become experts at hitting the eject button on boring conversations or uncomfortable conversations, just in the kinds of lives that we lead, you know? But when you have a format, there's no breaking

yourself out of it. You know, you're just on to the next wing, on to the next wing, on to the next wing, and you can't get out of what could be potentially kind of a miserable kind of back and forth when you're stuck in the format. There's also, you know, maybe you experienced this where it's hard for me to look back at old stuff because I'm always wincing and I'm always cringing at the younger me. But there is a side of me that I kind of like when I look back and that's just sort of the obliviousness of it all. You know, like when you're young and naive in this whole thing, there's a certain freedom

in it. Then when things become big and expectations and pressure to perform and all of these things start You know entering your world and entering your creative process you get too good you get too competent I often think like it's right this is aspects of the approach that improve like and then Sometimes you hear it in music to you know that classic thing of bands You like the first two or three albums when they didn't really know what they were doing, somehow it was all more interesting, whereas the band itself is like, I think we're doing the best stuff we've ever done, but it sounds overproduced and sort of safe in some way. And I think, you know, there's a

risk with that in the kind of in TV making or interviewing as well, right? Yeah, I think there's a lack of refinement that is painful for me to watch, but something that I wish I still had and I'll never get back. You know, when I watch old stuff, and particularly with that episode, DJ Khaled in particular, I'm like, oh, there's little spots of this guy who doesn't really know the stage that he's on or what it's going to become. And there's a freedom in that that I really miss and that I forgot even existed. You're a little bit cheeky with him. Yes, yes. Because your graciousness is a hallmark of your approach and I remember when I was on the show what I was struck by, because I wasn't super familiar, I'd seen a couple

of episodes but what I didn't appreciate was how well posed and well constructed your questions were and also how do I put put this how your delivery was so poised to the point of seeming quite formal right yeah, right? You weren't a kind of zoo teal. I'd imagined it would be like a slightly more bro format of like right come on We're gonna do this. Let's go crazy and actually it's something much more Gentle gentle and poised, but actually those early ones, there's a tiny bit more cheekiness to it. Or maybe, I mean, that's my perception anyway. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. There definitely was. And I think there was a naiveté that was there. There was a youthful ambition that was there. And there was also too, just not

clearly defining what we were or who we were going to be like that was the idea early on is that it would be this internet sideshow that we'd maybe do four times a year. It'd be kind of almost like an internet Super Bowl. We didn't think we'd be programming it regularly or anything like that. And I think in that time that was the idea that it should be this hot wing bro down spicy sort of event and Over time I think what we realized especially with this cult audience that we were building Was that we needed to improve on the interview aspect of the thing? So you'd have this unique format and then what is alongside of it?

Just an unimpeachably excellent interview show and And then if you could combine those two things, something very familiar, the Xs and Os, the oldest construct in the history of media, the interview, and then combine it with this unique hook where we're having our guests eat increasingly spicy chicken wings over the course of the interview as a way to break them down. If you can combine those things, then maybe that's how you can last for 23, 24, 25 seasons and beyond and make this show last for 10 years. I think if we had that old approach, it would have worn out quite quickly. I think that making for the guest what is the most comfortable, least comfortable interview show is what it's allowed us to book it

for these times afterwards, but there's definitely sides of me or parts of the personality that just because you don't know what you're doing come out and I do miss some of them. Do not miss others though. You're in an interesting place now, right? Your show is huge. It's a YouTube show. Like that might have felt like a put down a few years ago and yet in this media landscape that's just as viable a platform as any other. In fact, in some ways more so, right? I think at the same time there's this veneration for old media, for late night, CBS, ABC, the traditional format, but you're competing alongside those shows. You're also, I believe, eligible for an Emmy now in the, it's not like a daytime Emmy, like a regular,

what do you call it? Primetime Emmy, right? Primetime. So there's a strange feeling in which I think no one can work out whether this is your stepping stone to a real show, right? Or whether you are the real show. Do you know what I mean? And I like to illustrate so to illustrate that,

this is the world's longest question, but I was looking on Reddit, often like to get a temperature of what people are thinking about stuff, I go on Reddit and so someone goes, Sean Evans, they misspelled your name, nevermind. They go, he is probably one of the best hosts out there. Why hasn't he been elevated higher? Yeah. Okay. Have you seen that? No, you know what? I stay off the message boards as much. I stay off the message boards. But it's an interesting thought and the way that I look at it is honestly there's no one that I'd trade with. Like I don't look at anybody else's show, anybody else's lane, and feel any sort of envy or motivation or inspiration to achieve that.

What I have to me is the perfect show for me. It's a very comfortable captain's chair that when I sit in it, I know where all the buttons are. I feel great doing it, very comfortable doing it. The show's huge. I feel great doing it very comfortable doing it and The shows huge, you know, like these shows that we compete with I mean, I don't know like interview to interview episode to episode it actually favors us You know like the the eyeballs ears attention these shooting stars in the constellation of pop culture that we do quite frequently Episode to episode. I don't know like I

that we do quite frequently episode to episode. I don't know, like I take hot ones over the field in that case. And then just in terms of, you know, I work with people I love. You know, you say doing a YouTube show, I've done like a TV game show with a, you know, where there's a hundred people working on it versus this show where there's 12 people working on it.

When there's a million chefs in the kitchen, when, you know, our show where there's only a couple and we figured out through many years of doing this, how to solve conflicts, solve problems through each other. And I wouldn't trade it for anybody else. So I do think that I have exactly what I want. And the only thing now is to just think interview, next interview, next interview, like I'm just a Pac-Man, like I just like to eat the next pebble. And right now I just feel perfectly put on a track to do that.

And I know that once this is all gone for the rest of my career and for the rest of my life doing this whole thing, I'll know and never take for granted the lightning that we caught in a bottle and how I'll always be trying to capture what I have again. So now I just try to appreciate it and there's no carrot on the stick that I'm chasing right now other than just the next episode.

You mentioned Pac-Man and then I know this is gonna seem like a strange segue, but I wanted to ask about being bald. Because I'm going bald and we can come back because I want to come back to you I'm losing my hair I've got alopecia I'm sorry I'm gonna do something I've never done before no well thank you if I go down you can you see anything there yeah yeah yeah there's little patches and you know two years ago I looked like Billy Ray Cyrus in his prime and it's like exaggeration, but I basically had a big thick kind of red setter like, Towsler bowl, kind of, I'm trying to think of more words, but just, you know, Maine, like, the 09 Maine of gorgeous ringlets. This is very much a sidebar.

I can't believe I feel like I've pulled off the highway to look at a thing. This was the view we pulled off to look at. Do you know what I mean? Let's get back on the road. But now we've pulled off. Was it stressful for you going bald? You shaved quite early. What was behind all of that and do you have any advice? Yeah, first off, so to me it was never a big deal going bald. You know, my dad's bald. You know, I had an idea that this whole thing was coming. And so I did shave my head, but you know, like in junior high and high school, I had a shaved head.

I think just as a style, I naturally drawn to it, I guess. So when I started to lose my hair, I never really stressed out about it. And I still don't stress out about it because I think I just prefer the taking the clippers to yourself not worried about figuring out a Haircut situation or whatever, you know Like to just take that bull by the reins yourself was to me kind of a nice thing that I also wouldn't

Trade back. Are you stressing about this? Is this something that's is it bothering you when you started to lose your hair? Is it become kind of a you become kind of fixated on it? Are you trying to do anything preventative to stop it? Kind of fixate is a strong word. I'm conscious of it. Every time I look in the mirror, I'm like, I'm trying to figure out, is it getting worse? Is it slightly getting better?

I don't have a great shaped head like you have a great head. And thank you. I don't have a great shaped head like you have a great head and Thank you, and I feel like I Don't and I kind of got used to the idea of coasting into late middle age As one of those guys who still had a pretty good head of hair and I'm my wife said well You could think about a wig which is not what I wanted to hear right? Do you know what I mean? I don't I definitely don't want a wig. So yes, I'm a little stressed about it Does that sort of answer the question? Well, I think we're trying to answer each other's questions here a little bit

So I don't know to me it just was never that big of a deal Bald head to me beautiful. So to me just embrace it and it's never felt like it inhibited your your your swag? No not really but though I do sometimes wonder you know because when you're on TV and you present all the time there's maybe a part of you that is like oh well I'm not as handsome as the other people on TV or I don't have TV hair like you can start to analyze yourself in a way that's probably not healthy.

But I think overall I have a comfortable sort of, this is how I look, there's nothing I can do about it. But just it hasn't slowed me down yet. So why question things is basically how I look at it. You know, try to eat well, try to sleep well, try to get some time in the gym. And if you lose your hair, you lose your hair, you know? Yeah, the gym, I don't think the gym helps with the hair, does it? But the general presentation, I've done the same thing. I've thinking like, well, if I'm not going to have hair, then

I better make sure I've got a reasonably in shape body. What do you think is your skill set? Like, I mean, we can talk a bit about how you got into, I'd like to kind of talk in a minute about how you got into hot ones like to come to you in a minute about how you got into Hot ones and the back story and coming up but in terms of like managing the show and your presence on camera What's what what are you bringing to the party? I? think that I Can

Synthesize information. I think I can Present it in a way. Sometimes these questions have context up front. There's a hinge point before it ever hits the dismount. I think getting all of that out in a way that somebody watching the show can follow along from guest to guest, even if they know nothing about the guest, they can follow along with the story because you have that context up front and then the questions can be kind of elaborate. So I think there's a certain rhythm and syntax and style to all of that that I think is unique.

And then overall, I think there's just a general willingness to go with the flow, not unlike you. You know, if you're going to go on an experience with someone, you're just going to try to lean into it a little bit, have kind of a paper lion experience with it all. Was that a George Plimpton reference? Yeah, that was a George Plimpton reference. Nice. The patron saint, the godfather of participatory journalism, a brilliant urbane literateur.

I love Shadowbox. Have you ever read that? No, but I'll put that on my list for sure. Where he got in the ring with Archie Moore and like did three rounds with a light heavyweight I think and got his nose broken for the privilege. So I'm not necessarily, you know, I'm not like diving into that kind of experience with other people and certainly like you, you've done these things that are much more immersive, but in sort of going with the flow on the show where, you know, it can go sliding a million different directions, I'm not that rigid and like maintaining my host thing

You know like I'll go along for the ride with someone else and then the other skill set I bring is obviously eating these Scorching hot chicken wings so consistently which is also I think kind of a unique thing I bring to the table on that I know you've said that you're not a spicy guy like by nature and you didn't grow up like craving spices and The two most extraordinary things I watched probably in the run up to this, one was the Conan O'Brien interview you did. And I recommend people check it out. I mean, he obviously had a plan and his plan was to play the role of a kind of deranged macho man for whom spice was no obstacle. Like he's not only going to eat the wings, he's going to start glugging down, drinking the hottest

sauce from the bottle, which he literally does, and then rubbing it on his nipples. Yeah. But you know, thankfully he was in good hands. He had Dr. Arroyo, his physician, not the best physician, but very affordable. He'd saw his own sidekick, who apparently is one of his writers, which was again a good bit. I felt after I saw that, I was like, that's why he's a professional and I'm whatever I am. Do you know what I mean?

Because he actually scripted the whole fucking encounter. It was amazing, brilliantly, right? Yeah. I mean, growing up on him is, you know, one of the prevailing influences and inspirations for me to get into something like this and I think… But was he okay afterwards? Yes, I think, you know, he has such a pathological kind of commitment to the bit that he's riding all the way through and I think no matter what kind of obstacle you put in front

of him, for the sake of comedy comedy he'll always go there you know like there's a little bit of a jackass. You said that to him, you go like I love your commitment to the bit and he was like this isn't a bit! This is life! This is life! This is life! And I think it is I think it is for him so no matter what he was going through I've heard him talk a little bit about how he'd gotten sauce under his wedding ring and burned his finger he was going through, I've heard him talk a little bit about how he'd gotten sauce under his wedding ring, it burned his finger, he was obviously very uncomfortable. But in the aftermath, I think it was just the high of the performance, then perhaps a little bit of that spice influence. But aren't there medical side effects to that?

You know, if you do what he did, I'd imagine you could put yourself through some things, but I can only speak from my own experience that's doing this 350 times. I've eaten the Carolina Reaper, the world's spiciest pepper a handful of times. That was amazing. With the guy, what's the guy's name? Chili Klaus. Oh my God. That's incredible.

Like, by the way, yeah, so people out in Radio Land, if you'd watch two things after this, watch Conan, his episode, and my episode. No, no, watch Conan and Sean and a guy called Chili Klaus. And Chili Klaus, who sets himself up as, he's like a Scandinavian, he's like, it's, I like to eat spicy food and it's not the problem, it's very tasteful, when you smell it it's nice and you eat it down and it's not the problem. Then you're kind of patting them, they look a little bit like big strawberries and handling them and going back and forth, and then the moment comes, seven minutes in, you both pop one into your mouths and then what takes place, it's hard to describe, it's really like the Wicked Witch of the West when she's doused in water.

It's kind of like your face starts twitching and he begins hiccupping and going like, it's very tasteful. And then he's sort of retching and twisting in his seat. It's amazing. Snapping, yeah. Whereas you just sort of go red and your eyes water and you're kind of shaking. Oh yeah, he snaps his fingers's snap. He snaps his um He snaps his fingers together, and then he has I can feel it in my ears Yeah, and that's why he snaps He says when he eats something really hot that'll have some sort of like feedback or feeling like he's going deaf And so he snaps to remind himself that he's not going deaf that we that's what he told me afterwards

But yeah, that whole thing is like giving yourself food poisoning for 12 hours. You know, like it immediately takes over your body, start hiccuping. And I do think yeah, there are two different types of reactions to spice. You know, some get big and turn into kind of a cartoon character. And then some people kind of get tight and try to hold it all in. And I think that's what makes that video fun is we have both sides of the spectrum represented on that video. In terms of dream guests, you've said Howard Stern would be a dream, right? Well, it's one of those things where your impulse is to say, dream guests is the people who are most formidable to me growing up doing this, you know, which obviously we're talk show

hosts like Howard Stern, a radio host, David Letterman. I've had a couple, you know, like from Conan to Jimmy Kimmel, Adam Carolla, you know, some of my biggest influences I've had on. So I think the impulse is to get the other ones on as well, but then that can always be kind of a challenging thing yourself or be careful what you ask for situation, you know. Have you ever sat down with an on as well, but then that can always be kind of a challenging thing yourself or be careful what you ask for situation. Have you ever sat down with an icon of yours and it can either go really, really well and you can feel fulfilled by that or it can feel kind of flat and empty and maybe be filled

with disappointment, that kind of be careful what you wish for, meet your idols thing. So I'm always on the fence about that. Yeah. What does a disappointing guest look like? To me, I think Hot Ones is a show that to do it, you kind of have to want to do it. And I do think that every once in a while, there's someone who's convinced to go on by a publicist, the studio or whatever. And then they kind of get into it.

And usually sometimes we can win those people over in real time, you know, like around the second or third you can see their shoulders drop when they have the same perception you have where it's like, oh, I thought this would be like a bro down wing interview show, but it's kind of not. So sometimes you can get that kind of out of them, but sometimes you can't. I'm actually surprised that a clash of personality or a clash with the format doesn't happen more frequently, but every once in a while it'll happen and that'll be like, oh, it's kind of a bummer.

Because I think when you do something, you have some sort of plan for how it's going to go. And if it goes as well as you have planned, then that's a thumbs up. Oftentimes it'll go better than you planned, two thumbs up. And then every once in a while, it'll go a little worse than you planned. And then you'll kind of get into the lab and figure out, you know, I personally, I kind of always put that kind of thing on me. You know, I just kind of think that's more my fault than the guest.

Wow, you're such a man, you've got a nice attitude. And I think that that's a big part of the success of the show and it's sort of what you were saying earlier which is that in a weird way and I've said this in relation to my documentaries is that actually you sort of have to prioritize reality over the product. In other words, number one is making sure everyone is okay. Do you know what I mean? Kind of like you're treating people like human beings and not as a means to an end, and then things tend to go more smoothly, if that makes sense. I 100% agree with that. Yes, you just try to create a connection, a natural rhythm, and I think too in an interview, a sense of trust that you're trying to build and then

you're doing it in this very bizarre context of it being on a TV show and of course someone that you're meeting for the very first time and just trying to create this natural, genuine energy between the two of you. I think that's fundamental that you have to approach it that way first and if it doesn't go well, it doesn't go well. But shockingly, you know, it usually goes well. Now, as a bit like Hot Ones, as the podcast goes on, the questions get spicier. Did I mention that? No, but I like it.

I just made that up. Would you book Trump? You know, I'm not that enthusiastic about a political candidate. And the reason for that is because, you know, it's not really the best format for a politician in that you are naturally rooting for the guest to get through the wings, you know, and it is a show that I think celebrates more than it scrutinizes. And it kind of almost has to be that way because if you know you're closing the walls in on the guest in like sort of a capital J sense and then you're like all right now on to the bomb beyond insanity you know like

to keep a guest engaged in that I think there has to be like a certain sort of going up this mountain together thing that I think the audience also feels So in that way the format I think does detract from the gravitas that I think is required of interviewing an official a presidential candidate of a sitting president a former president or whatever That said the views would be crazy You again this question we're going up the Scoville scale. You ready? Yes right here with you I think you pulled one episode right? Maybe there's more but the one I'm aware of is Mario Batali Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because he was subject to allegations of I guess serial serious sexual misconduct But there are a couple still on there.

Russell Brand is one. Another one is Shia LaBeouf, I believe. What is behind the decision making process when you decide who stays up, who comes down, who you can book and so forth? Well, generally speaking, I think once you put something up you put something up and I think it's sort of an unfair responsibility to think that like a like a talk show is somehow like responsible for someone all the way through with what they do and and I personally don't

Really like the idea of okay. We're just gonna completely erase. We're going to take all the movies off of Netflix. We're going to take all the music off of Spotify and just pretend that none of this stuff ever existed before. Just in general, I think that that requires more and should talk shows be the judge, jury and executioner in that sort of case. I do sometimes think that you can have these conversations, but I don't know there has to be some sort of Specific policy. I don't think you can just in The moment be like oh well like this person was in the news this week You have to take that thing down with the Mario Batali episode in particular

I think that it was one of those where we put it up, and then that stuff all hit like Within hours or like a day of the upload and there were some other things that kind of led to us taking down that episode permanently. But generally speaking, I think it's just it's a little dubious to like go and wipe your history and try to make some sort of pristine back catalogue. I mean, even with you, I know, didn't they take down your like, Rogan episode or something like that?

Yeah, how did you know that? I did well, because I'm a fan of yours, Lou, but I know they did that. But it's like, I don't know, some of these things just seem kind of arbitrary. By the way, I don't think they, I mean, I think I said this because I was on Theo Von's podcast and they took down my first Rogan episode, but I'm convinced it was because it was too boring. Maybe that, yeah. Although that seems weird that they would do that, but I, there was just nothing in

that, you know, in the, in the, when you think of the full gamut of what Joe Rogan's podcasts were like, I don't know, I just can't believe there was anything that spicy in that conversation. Yeah, I don't know. But that's what I get worried about is like drawing those particular lines and then actioning on it. And then I don't know, like what does it even do or whatever? You know, like, oh, we're just going to take all the movies off, take all the music off, pretend like no interviews ever happened, you know, in that way, maybe there are these conversations that you can have, but I do think you have to have some sort of specific policy set in place if you're going to make those kinds of actions.

So I don't know, that's the way that I look at it. It's like if we put something out, I'd feel I'd feel weirder about like whitewashing history than I would about just leaving it up. What about the artists formerly known as Kanye? We've never shot with him. He seems impossible to put into a format. Like, I don't know how you could do like, all right, now we eat the first wing.

Here's a question, here's an answer. Now we eat the second wing. Question, answer, now we eat the third wing. And Kanye is somebody who, as an artist, probably has more mileage in my headphones than any other musician ever. Right. Fellow Chicago native. Right, right. And when you were coming up, you know, as a young man, that would have been the soundtrack, I'm sure. For sure. College dropout. I remember, you know, when I was in college and it came out. So that way he seems so impossible in that respect that I don't know if I'd be excited

for that kind of opportunity. Be a tricky one. So, one of the things that came up in the research was, there's this Bloomberg story that says, quote, the future of the show is uncertain. Basically, they're saying that Buzzfeed has been trying to sell First We Feast, which is the parent company above Hot Ones. I mean, one of the discoveries in researching this was that you are, how do I put this? I guess you're not like an owner of Hot Ones. It's not like Amelia de Moldenburg and Chicken Shop Date that you were and since brought on as a presenter slash writer host.

And I don't want to put it bluntly, but in theory they could fire you, right? 100%. And it's even been reported that, I don't know, like that you were, I don't know, in a couple of interviews I picked up that there was an aspect of your relationship to the brand that felt not tenuous, but not wholly satisfactory in your eyes. Yeah, I mean, there's been challenging aspects of this throughout. And I guess the context that I could put it in is, you know, my entire career, the whole digital media industry has been kind of a bloodbath.

You know, like I've described it as feeling like that final scene in Fight Club where all of the skyscrapers are falling down around you and the ground is always shaking under your feet too, you know, and you just feel like it's only a matter of time before the floor gives out on you. And that's kind of been my whole experience my entire career, you know, like I came in after the peak and after all the dreams were sold on this kind of industry. And then now I'm here at its current state. But I think those pressures have made us resourceful have made us do the most with the least. And I think have been a source of strength overall, like I think net, that I wouldn't change anything about being this rose that's grown in concrete or yeah, like this wouldn't be the first time,

you know, like I've probably been threatened out of my, you know, threatened to lose the seat countless times, like over this whole journey, which can be taxing. But I think the thing that I've always prioritized. Seriously, like, what does that mean? You've been threatened to lose the seat countless times. Oh, I think like every negotiation or like any new thing It's just it's you know, you can always hear that kind of like oh, you know You've been doing this for a long time be shame if someone else did it, you know, like there's always that Who do you report to?

Me I'm kind of an island at this point, you know what I mean? But you'll just kind of hear island at this point, you know what I mean? But you'll just kind of hear things like through an agent or whatever. So I think but I think also too that's just like entertainment, you know? Like if you have a show like yeah it's different now that people can kind of boutique become their own media companies. But in a way you're straddling two things here because obviously you've got the Mr. Beasts of this world, right? Who completely is a self-created entity unless he's absolutely cancelled off of YouTube, in which case you

go to rumble, but he is in effect unfi-rable. And I think a lot of people would look at you and think, hey, Sean's the same kind of deal. But it turns out it's not quite the case. There's this overhang of this relationship you had when you were coming up and you were hired onto the program when you were coming up and you were hired onto the program when you were working at Complex, right? And so you own the brand in the eyes of the public, but behind the scenes it's not quite that simple, right? No, and you know, sometimes I look back and think about ways that I could have exercised,

leveraged a little bit differently. But the problem is, is like, when you have that kind of pressure on you, the thing that's always been my North Star through all of this is just always feeding the show. And I stay true to that North Star, which has always pulled me through and, and saved me through these whole things, which is you can't stop a hit. Like as long as people like and watch this show, then I don't think you can stop it. It doesn't, it's not in anyone's best interest, especially now in this day and age where it's so hard to have something that breaks through.

The idea that an industry could just purge hot ones, just because or whatever, it doesn't make any sense to me. So overall, I think that there's a way for this to just work out well for everyone, set up hot ones for a fruitful future and that's kind of what I'm focused on now. Just episode to episode and I think as long as you take care of each episode each season, then it'll be fine on the other end of this.

So that's kind of my mindset now and one day I'll look like a dummy for having this thought process but it's worked out for me for the last decade. If you went off with your partner in crime, Chris Schoenberg, right? And set up a... Is he there with you? Yeah, he's literally to my right. Is he? If you... And you said you started a YouTube chat show called Spicy Wings, right? And they ate 11 wings. You know what I mean? You tweaked it. You could in theory do that,

but you'd be starting with a subscriber base of zero and you'd have to rebuild from the ground up. Yeah, and that's the whole thing is just everything that we've put into building this and all that sweat equity and all of that. You know, I think just on the other side of this, this is a unique time where it feels like something has to break. But overall, I think it'll be fine. You know, we just had one of our biggest seasons ever, maybe our biggest season.

When you said you that you did you just say this is a unique time when something has to break? Did you just say that? Well, yeah, I mean, I just think that the challenges and the industry and whatnot, like it's just harder for things to stay exactly like this. I think that everybody thinks that, you know, like on both sides of it. I think like the media company, I think. In what sense? I mean, I don't know, like, there's a lot of money owed, you know, so I think there's

like a way in which it's challenged to keep us and You mean because BuzzFeed, the parent company BuzzFeed is a hundred million in debt, right? Right, right. So, and Hot Ones is a big success and it makes 30 million a year according to this piece Anyway, largely from brand and licensing deals. There's like sources and Spin-off stuff. Do you get a piece of that merchandise? Yeah. Yeah, nobody should cry for me in this whole thing I mean on this on that side of thing Obviously, you lose your job like this stuff that you built for obviously, you know, but that stuff Keep me up at night like doesn't have to keep anyone else up. My life is good

Vivek Ramaswamy owns 8.9% of BuzzFeed. Did you know that? You know what I read interesting updates in the in the paper all the time He might be a good guest in the paper all the time. He might be a good guest. Yeah, yeah, he might be the new host. He might be the new host. But you feel happy, or that's why I can't believe it. Are you happy?

Yeah, I am. I'm happy doing the show. I think this season has been my, like, this season. I get it. Like, basically, a bit like me like, you know You just think I want to make good shows. Yes, give me the next thing I want to research just make it and as long as you keep delivering great content Nothing much can go wrong. But right what I will say is that and I'm listening

There's people there are obviously a lot of people who'd be making a lot of money off the work that you're doing Yeah, and it would be a shame if you didn't if you didn't enjoy you if you didn't enjoy your just desserts in terms of all of that. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, these are the conversations that happen. And I think the situation, I guess what's frustrating to me is it seems so transparent and obvious. But whatever processes like this, they can be slow and ups and downs and kind of a roller coaster and everybody's playing a game, you know, it can seem like and then you'll just but but that's exactly how I feel is, I just want to make good things, you know what I mean? So I don't get so bogged down by the other stuff. To me, I'm not really

craving attention or fame or even money really. Like the the high that I get is just off of making a good interview and then delivering it to the world and catching the reaction that that gets. Like that's the drug, that's the priority, that's above all else for me. And I've never had that side of it threatened really. Or like not in like a serious way. I guess I used to take those like sort of, it'd be a shame if someone else hosted kind of thing seriously. Has anyone ever actually said that it would be a shame if someone else hosted?

Yeah, yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't make up that quote. Really? Yeah. Who said that? Uh, I, that's not only one person, but um, but I think that was a situation where- Are you gonna eat the wing? Are you gonna eat this wing? Who said it? Yeah, or it was like, here's a shitty contract. You have 24 hours to sign this, otherwise, you know, we're putting someone else- that kind of thing, you know, has happened.

This is the bit where I enjoy you eating the spicy wing. It's a metaphor. I appreciate you kind of, I get it man, it's hard. It reminds me a little bit, I mean I worked for 20 years at the BBC with no ownership of my programs. I would get a residual whatever percentage, so I didn't feel badly, in fact I was grateful for that. And as long as I was making the shows with a sense of security, because I

didn't have to worry about running a company or any of that stuff. And I was basically, I quite enjoyed being, as it were, a factory worker at the BBC, like alongside everyone else working from contract to contract. And then five years ago, I started my own company. And you know, there's pluses and minuses, but your compensation is better. And then there's a little less security but you do have the pleasure of knowing that you know you're the sort of master of your own destiny yeah i think yeah it's just you know you fix one corner of the carpet you can kind of mess up the other corner a little bit so as long as i never had to compromise creatively or compromise in

terms of vision and i could just do the show like that was all you know kind of enough for me and then you know even like in a contract negotiation what I would sometimes do is just have a thing that made me happy you know like write it down before so you don't get into this thing and then once those needs were met you know I didn't feel the need to like continue to fight or whatever I think through all of that you get a unique insight onto how this whole poker game works and where you're going to kind of sit in it. So even though you know the pieces that are out and what's being written about it could

sound like I should you know be in like a stressful situation like I said I've already gotten so much out of it and I think it'll work out just like it has in the past. You said, I'll say that it's the best interview show, but it's because there's so many bad interview shows. By comparison, we look fucking excellent. That was in 2019. I said that? Yeah. Oh. So I think when we first started doing doing the show there really weren't that many good interview shows, especially on the internet And now I think there are a lot of them

I think the podcast revolution and all of that has kind of crowded the space and and now you get When I'm watching interviews, there's just so much more I can sink my teeth into now than the landscape when we first started the show. So I might have said that, but I'll walk that back a little bit now, just because I think there are so many good ones now. For sure. I'm going to say one other thing, and this is totally out of sequence, but you were very kind when I was on the show by giving, I mean, I'm sure to all your guests, you do this,

gave me a kind of a box of all the hot sauces and I went away and I finished all of them with the exception of what seemed to me the hottest one, the bomb, the most problematic one. But what happened was I smashed it on the ground. I don't know how I just not accidentally knocked off the table. So I started clearing it up with paper towels. And I was scooping it up, scooping it up. But can you guess what happened? You at the end of your cleanup, touched your face or you went to the restroom. Is it one way or another there was a cross contamination issue? Well, not quite, but not close enough.

Basically my hands started glowing and I hadn't really realized like I should have been wearing latex gloves. 100%. And I hadn't really realized like I should have been wearing latex gloves a hundred no exaggeration I would say for 24 hours minimum It felt like they were kind of glowing and I went to bed and I was like that I had to keep them under the pillow Because they were so hot and uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah, I Don't know. I don't know if I didn't touch my wiener or why that didn't cross contaminate. Well, good thing it didn't. Why?

What happens when you do that? It's like bear macing yourself in your underwear or something. You know, like any cross contamination mistake that you can make, I've made over the years. And I always tell people, be careful around the eyes. You know, there's this natural inclination to want to wipe your eyes when you're on the show because your face starts to sweat. But you really should not do that because you can end up, you know, swiping an eyeball and we've had guests that have had to do the last couple wings kind of like this before.

And I always say that I'm always on top of that. But the number one worst thing you can do is just not thoroughly wash your hands afterwards, use the restroom, and then you've got a real problem. Tell me about it. I mean, should we? Is your energy okay? Yeah, I'm doing good. and then you've got a real problem. Tell me about it. I mean, is your energy okay? Yeah, I'm doing good. I'm here with you. You're killing it, by the way. Don't touch your eyes.

You grew up in Chicago, which, you know, like, for the British public, they know New York, they know LA. Like, those are the two, kind of the poles, the twin poles of American culture. And Chicago's a less known terrain. And yet in a sense, it's the more quintessential American city arguably being in the Midwest, in the heartland. And also, correct me if I'm wrong, did you grow up in Evanston or you were born in Evanston? Born in Evanston and then grew up in the Northwest suburb of Crystal Lake, Illinois. And Evanston, I believe, is home to some John Hughes films. So in a sense, in film form, it crystallizes an aspect of the American high school experience, which for certainly

people of my generation, movies like Sixteen Candles and Pretty and Pink and breakfast club. It was so like so primal and so important. And I mean, I sense that you that yours was a happy upbringing. You've spoken glowingly of your upbringing. Like for me as a podcast interviewer, that's a challenge because if I can hang my hat on some piece of trauma, it's really helpful. And nothing in the research, nothing is hoved into view, like no major instances of, I'm trying not to trivialize like serious personal, you know, serious issues, but feel free to volunteer something. Well, you're right in that it was idyllic. In those John Hughes movies, you know, I do feel like I lived a quintessential sort of 90s kid experience

You know like playing baseball playing football right now around on a bike with my friends You know like living in a neighborhood where every single house had kids and they were all within like a three to four your window of each other and everyone's running around each other's yards and the the games and the prom and the, you know, like all of those experiences that I look back on and be like, I'm happy I grew up that way. But third, I did have, you know, my mother had cancer, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which was always a storm cloud growing up and passed away when

I was a teenager, when I was 15 or 16 years old. Yeah. Okay. I did not know that. What was her line of work? So she worked for the antitrust division of the US government. So I think like, you know, like a paralegal breaking up monopolies and stuff. She'd be going for Google big time. She'd be kicking their butt. Who are they going for at the moment? Is it Bill Gates? I think they're going for Google, aren't they?

Yeah. It sounds like the antitrust division of the federal government is pretty busy these days. They're certainly a lot more busy than it used to be. But I do have like just sort of strange memories of growing up and like remembering a time where you know, she'd have to like watch confidential surveillance video of something. And there was this summer that she was working on a big case and my dad would just be like taking me and my brother to like the batting cages during the day and then a movie in the afternoon and then going out for dinner.

And I remember that like those sorts of experiences when my mom was working on a big case, I remember it just turned into like a fun vacation with me, my brother and my dad. Like those are the kinds of memories I have from that. Your dad was a judge. So you had quite a high powered pair of parents right there. Yeah, they were. And you know, when I interview a lot of creative people, there's a sense like, oh, I was at odds with the world. I didn't fit in. I was an incel. I hidden my books. But I don't know if that was the case for you. Matthew 11 No, I mean, the ways in which my childhood kind of formed is my dad was a Letterman obsessive. And he would tape all of the episodes all week. And then on weekends, he'd binge them.

And watching Letterman with my dad was kind of a fun early core memory experience that I had. And I remember like during the monologue, the crowd would be laughing. I'd always have my dad explain the joke to me. You know, I'd be like, why are people laughing? What explain is this? This must have been the early nineties, I guess, like 1990, 1991, 1992. So I remember watching that kind of thing and being inspired by it, you know, like seeing the lights, camera action of it all. And then also the way that this guy in

New York could have this direct connection to my dad in Chicago and then saw the impact that just entertainment could have on a person. So that was my earliest memory of that. And then I did become obsessed kind of a talk radio. There was like the local radio shows around me. There was the show Love Line, a call in sort of like sex advice thing with Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla that I'd listen to every night. And then of course, the late night shows, Howard Stern, I would just have the episodes and listen to them at recess and stuff. So like that time in my life, that was later on like high school college era and start doing that

You stern in a way like he's not as well known in the UK But in sense the quintessential shock jock But but that doesn't quite do justice to his intelligence and his sense, you know his sense of humor It felt like it was right at the edge and sometimes over the edge of kind of acceptable But you kind of forgave it because he felt somehow like he was your guy the edge and sometimes over the edge of kind of acceptable, but you kind of forgave it because he felt somehow like he was your guy. It's hard to really explain. I think part of it was having Robin Quivers as his sidekick. So he had this sort of great relationship with a black woman who was there kind of reigning him in or just

providing some sort of counter narrative. You know what I mean? That was part of the dynamic that I think made it okay. And then I think too, like the biggest draw for me early on though, is actually like the prank calls. I think that it was like, and when I first started listening to it was almost like the show was almost connective tissue between prank calls for me. And then ended up kind of just falling in love with the show and the way that it knocked out all the walls and kind of turned itself inside out and presented it to the audience that way.

And that way, I remember being like, well, I've never heard anything like this. And I'd always be curious how various news and pop culture events filtered through the brain of Howard and how he distill it to his audience. And so those were the icons that kind of gave me the sense of purpose and confidence to pursue a broadcast journalism degree and to think that maybe one day I could be on TV. One of the quotes was that in high school you could sit at any of the tables in the cafeteria, which I thought was quite a telling metaphor. I don't know if it's set up in quite the same way in the UK, whether there's

the same level of, I mean, what were the different tables? What did they represent? Jason Suellentrop You know, I think that like, you know, athletes and would hang out together. I think like theatre kids would hang out together. I think nerds would hang out together, you know, and I don't think it's that dissimilar from the John Hughes construction of the high school experience that's not that far off from my lived experience. And yeah, I had close friend groups and people that I'd hang out with all the time, but I do think that I was able to switch codes and bounce around from group to group, which is in a way kind of what I'm doing now. You know, it's just you meet so many different big personalities and finding a way to, um, connect with them in some way, especially

too, cause they're all varied and have all different kinds of backgrounds or whatever. And then to just try to connect and then put, uh, into their thinking and find a rhythm in the way that you're connecting with one another on a show is not that dissimilar from navigating the politics of a high school lunchroom. I want to ask this delicately and you can leave it on the table if you like. Did you enjoy a lot of female attention? Yeah, it was fine. Yeah, yeah, like, not like prom king or like not like the Freddie Prinze Jr version of that teen high school flick, like, never that but no complaints. I think I was in like a sort of B, a letter grade B kind of category. That whole time. I do

remember like an eighth grade, or maybe seventh grade. I do remember like in eighth grade or maybe seventh grade. I did you remember grade yourself on? Attractiveness yeah, yeah, I got that time, but I do remember when I was in seventh grade I'd have like a like a cut long hair and then it would be kind of like parted down the middle and never had any kind of Attention in that way and then I do remember like in one weekend getting a 98 degrees haircut and my jawline kind of coming in like in the same weekend and then going to school and getting like giggles behind me and stuff like that and like, oh, things are kind of changing. So I do remember that kind of moment. But yeah, like overall, yeah, like had a girlfriend in high school and did prom and all of those things like, yeah, I've never really thought about it because I don't think I've been asked the question to reflect on that, but it was all fine. It was all fine.

Mason Hickman If you didn't think about it, that suggests it wasn't an issue. It's a bit like being tall. You don't go around thinking, I'm tall. I'm going to abandon that metaphor or that analogy. You went from geek to Chad. You went from geek to Chad like just with it. Yeah, that was yeah, and it was kind of short-lived It was kind of short-lived. I think I went back down to geek, you know, it was just one week like in one weekend I was off to the races, but I wasn't really built to deal with that Like I don't think I was I don't think I necessarily was expressing the kind of confidence that went with like the package at that time So then once people saw that kind of disconnect, I think it faded off. But, but overall, yeah, like I had no, yeah, like that was all, that was all fine. You know, I'm aware you mentioned that your mom had died when you were what? 15?

15 or 16 years old. I think I was a junior in high school. Can you just say, is there anything you'd like to say about that time? Yeah. I mean, uh, challenging time, obviously, and anyone who's dealt with cancer in the family knows how you go through this dark time and then it goes away. And then it feels like brighter days are ahead. Now you're in a good place. And then it comes back. And then, you know, the chemotherapy and you see somebody in the house suffering the way that they are. And it's your mom, you know, like all of that stuff. Um, looking back was a lot to deal with, you know, and in some ways it's not like it's like a source subject or anything, you know, like it happened a long time ago and is just

part of my experience and do think about her and wonder what she'd think of this whole kind of crazy life that I'm living now sometimes. But yeah, it was definitely a paradigm shifting moment in my life as it is for a lot of people. But it's something that pretty much all of us go through. 15 year olds can be tearaways. I speak as a father of three boys, 18, 16 and nine. Was your relationship with your mom in a good place around that time and leading up to it? You know, it was, but there are like, and this is, you do think about these little things, you know, I remember the very last conversation we ever had was her wondering what college I was going to go to, you know, and to me, I didn't think of it anything more than like

my mom nagging me about where I'm going to go to school. But then she passed away within like 48 hours of that. And now that I look back on it, it's like she knew that that was going to happen. So she was trying to get out of me where I'm going to college because she like really wanted that information before she went. And then you think about that now and it snaps into focus and you can feel regret. Like why did I handle that like that? You know, of course the answer is like I was 15 and that just seemed like one of the million

times my mom's like, well, what are you going to do this summer? Like where are you going to Scott? You know, like it just felt like one of those conversations. So but no, it was, it was in a good place other than just the natural kind of way in which all relationships with like teenagers and their parents is imperfect. Do you, are you okay talking about this? Yeah, yeah, I'm fine talking about it. I'm curious how long it was from diagnosis to her death and if you remember the moment

when they had the conversation with you that this was happening. I only remember it and it just being part of my life, my whole life. You know, there'd be times where, um, she'd be going through chemo treatments or whatever, and like dropping me off for literally games when I was like 10 or 11 years old. You know, like I remember those kinds of things. And it's something that started for her when she was in high school, you know, like doctors never thought that she'd have kids and things like that.

So it was a battle that she'd been facing since, you know, she was 15 or 16 years old all the way through the end of her life. And that's, I remember my whole life being like, this is a good time, feels like things are going to get better. And then this is a bad time, you know? Um, so I remember being one of those things, but the concern being a little bit different and just sort of the storm cloud over the house being a little bit different. I don't remember the actual kind of conversation, but I do remember there was, uh, you know, like a hospice situation. I think they, they set up a bed in the living room. Uh, one of my best friends, mom was a nurse. And so she came in and was kind of helping out with all of that. And then I remember

like kind of on the morning of like when she'd passed, like just knowing when I like walk downstairs and like the eeriness of like the quiet house and kind of the look on the nurses face. And then, you know, me just kind of like, not saying a word to anybody and going back upstairs. Like that's kind of what I remember about that morning. And then also, I just remember the support, you know, like there are so many people from my life that came to the house that day that dropped off food with well wishes. I did feel in that moment, feelings of support and then also feeling like I needed to be that too for other people.

I have a younger brother who's younger, like 15, 16 years old. That's not a great time to lose somebody, But think about that, like 13, 14, you know, feeling like I need to be like a strong big brother in that situation. Also for like, what my dad was going through, you know, like trying to give him the grace to not have to be the strong one in this case, which of course he just did anyway. So those are kinds of the memories I have that swirl around that particular time in my life. Wow. Do you have, do you subscribe to a faith? Is that something, is that part of your life? I mean, I'm agnostic. I think the part, it's harder for me to believe that this is all for no reason than it is for some reason.

You know, like that side of it is harder for me to wrap my head around that this is just for nothing. But I don't have a Jersey. I'm not on a team necessarily. It's weird when you have kids and you're trying to explain death to them and as they either someone who's not an observant Christian or whatever, right, there's a temptation to sort of say, well, they've gone somewhere special, they're in the sky, they're with the angels, when you don't really believe that. And then at the same time to say, well, they're dead, and you're never going to see them again. And that's pretty much the end of the story feels quite harsh, right? Nevertheless, that's the truthful answer. That's the one I give.

One that we face. Oh my God. I want to ask a couple more questions. I don't want to take the piss and kind of eat up tons of time. I feel like your journey in some ways was a bit similar to mine in as much as you came out of a kind of a journalistic training and didn't really see yourself as being someone on TV or someone having a profile necessarily. And yet you became the guy who was up for stuff. Like you were willing to have a crack at something, right? And there was a time when I guess you'd

been hired by Complex, this sort of streetwear company, and there were gigs that would come along for sort of like, I'm going to do this for a day. Right. And you were the guy, I'll do it. Like, can you talk a bit about that? Yeah. So I mean, that was kind of the paper line existence. You know, I think it was one of those situations where it's like, well, I don't necessarily see myself in a particular mold on TV or whatever. But I am curious about people, you know, and I think that that's been the number one thing

that's fueled this whole wave that we're on. So I'm like, Okay, what would it be like to eat the rocks diet for a day and do the rocks training regimen, you know, like, and just walk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how it plays out. These are all so long ago, but I do remember I think the rock one was my first, like big video,, you know before hot ones, but also to it it did kind of bleed into hot ones in a way because even you know, just trying to eat the Carolina Reaper that's just basically Jump and see what happens, you know, just edge close to danger and see how it all plays out What can you tell me about the rocks diet? Can you remember anything about his diet? All I remember is that it's non-stop and then it would be like it's a lot of hard and brown rice

Yeah, it's and then it gets served to you on a plate that basically weighs as much as a Range Rover tire And then it's like once you eat that the next one is kind of coming, you know what I mean? So you're never out from under that thing and then you're just you're eating so much that it's uncomfortable You're training so much that it's uncomfortable. So that's what I remember most is how dense and Flavorless it kind of all was and then basically someone well, I guess was it Chris Chris Schoenberg Who talent spotted you or like he had the idea or what was the genesis of hot ones? So he was running first week feast, hey buddy. And that was a food blog and then 2015, you know, like every media company became a YouTube

channel. So he had to launch a show. He had this idea, we had a good sort of like water cooler office relationship that we had going and he was looking for a host and I think his pinch email was like You know we could have Sean Evans host, you know, because I think you know, he needed an affordable and motivated Human body to shove into to the show to make it work but I think he also had the he's like or if that doesn't work out I could host I remember and

When he approached me for the idea, it just seemed so smart and like just such a such a cupid's arrow into my brain. And I recognized the potential that it had immediately and it being a totally singular and unique format. And we shot a pilot and that was almost 10 years ago. We just haven't stopped shooting them since. The rest is history. And actually, strikingly, the first one's only five minutes.

It's with Tony Yeo. And it's not one of the best, but it's a serviceable episode. Yeah, a pilot. It's a kind of a pilot because it's only six minutes. You know, we're going to go back to one spicy wing. It isn't really that spicy, but you know, obviously the report is that Buzzfeed is struggling to sell hot ones for $70 million. Like, that's the headline.

Struggling. I resent that because that sounds like it's not a hot brand and it is. But there's presumably a scenario where you and Chris go out and raise equity and kind of buy it and then you're your own bosses and Vivek Ramaswamy can go take a hike, right? Presumably you've talked about that. Yeah, I mean, candidly, that's kind of an ideal outcome is to, you know, kind of take back this thing that we created together. And so, I mean, we'll see what happens. There's just a lot of different things that can happen with stuff like this. And in some ways, it's a new experience. But

in some ways, it's very familiar to the things that I've had to navigate in the past. So I think ultimately, hot ones will find a way as it always has through being this little engine that could show. And that's where I land on it. And it is something that I have a lot of endurance for going forward. You know, like I don't have the burnout feelings. Like I said, I feel comfortable in the captain's chair and I wouldn't trade it with anyone. So hopefully with all those things combined, it'll just get us through a challenging time and Set us up to do it for another 10 years. That's my hope and I think that'll happen Okay, welcome back I hope you enjoyed that. It was fun talking to Sean. What a lovely man. Can I editorialize like that? They're all lovely, my guests. And Sean especially. Since we spoke, it's been reported that an investment group, including Sean and his co-creator

Chris, purchased Hot Ones from Buzzfeed for $82.5 million. I guess that wasn't all his pocket jingle. Like they had backers, I'm assuming. And good, you know, that's great. I had the sense talking to him that he wanted to be the captain of his own destiny, and this will presumably enable him to do that. By the way, I've now watched my episode of Hot Ones. It has two million views. I slightly wish it was more than that. It's a solid episode and I think there's some laughs. And I've even watched it and you might be able to see

on YouTube my reaction video. That's how YouTube friendly I am now. I'm actually doing reaction videos reacting to myself. That's what they do on the internet now. During the chat, Sean said the benchmark for a surprisingly low performing episode was three million, which is a million more than mine got. What the hell? What do we do with that?

We say there's more work to do. There's people out there who haven't heard the good news about the Jesus Christ of documentary making. That's a blasphemous reference. We also spoke about Chili Klaus, who featured in a video with Sean eating a Carolina Reaper chili, it's such a beautiful video. They look like the, it's like someone's thrown a hand grenade into a house and you see their head is the house, right? It's a metaphor and you just see them imploding visually. His real name is Klaus Pilgard, although he also performs music under the name Klaus Wunderhitz. There's another good video where he forces an orchestra

to eat chilies and then try to perform, which we'll link to in the show notes. We mentioned the Mario Batali case. His Hot Ones episode was taken down in 2017 after four women accused him of sexual misconduct. Batali was charged with indecent assault and battery in 2019, but cleared of both charges in 2022. I think that might be about it except for credits. The producer was Milly Chew. Chew, that's relevant, right? Because you chew food, hot ones. The assistant producer was Amelia Gill. Gill, that doesn't work, Gill's fish. The production manager was Francesca Bassett and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel

de Chickenwings. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. Oliveira oil. I'll stop now. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.