The Louis Theroux Podcast - S6 EP6: Florence Pugh discusses intimacy coordinators, jumping off buildings and getting into character

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

In this episode, Louis speaks to British actress Florence Pugh. Joining Louis at Spotify HQ, Florence talks about “abusing” herself to get into character, whether intimacy coordinators are necessary on film sets, and jumping off a building from nearly 3000 feet. Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  If you’ve been affected by the topics discussed in this episode, Spotify have a website for information and resources. Visit spotify.com/resources       Links/Attachments:  Midsommar (2019)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/midsommar/umc.cmc.3btmmnmdi8cci3gb2qupxli8o?action=play     Hereditary (2018)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/hereditary/umc.cmc.1p8skf72cqba9t91v2rqjbeyv?action=play     The Most Beautiful Boy in the World (2021)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/the-most-beautiful-boy-in-the-world/umc.cmc.6nsk7o2tf9grbf1cjmicejcrv     Little Women (2019)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuVlgl16DP0     Malevolent (2018)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2386237/     King Lear (2018)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7473890/     Thunderbolts* (2025)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/thunderbolts/umc.cmc.67bgkyn0fzr8n7ngw0v4mi2df?action=play     Anora (2024)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/anora/umc.cmc.ka0xf4gk3tckil4x7x14hpcy?action=play     We Live In Time (2024)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/we-live-in-time/umc.cmc.3en3aplqsmjw1pbltmzo7p4mx?action=play     Article: Florence Pugh shares her life lessons  https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a64501157/florence-pugh-life-lessons-video-interview/     The Wonder (2022)  https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81426931?source=35&fromWatch=true    Lady Macbeth (2016)  https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/lady-macbeth/umc.cmc.1crmjkmj1nzsvuwurlmdgbiji?action=play    Don’t Worry Darling (2022)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10731256/   Credits:  Producer: Millie Chu   Assistant Producer: Sally McLennan  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D’Oliveira   Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Scott Edwards   Shownotes compiled by Elly Young  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1-2-12. Ready? Mic number one. Hello, and welcome to the Louis Theroux podcast. Today I'm joined by Hollywood Megastar and Indy Darling, Florence Pugh. Florence's filmography reads like a greatest hits of the last few years in cinema. are from Galactic Royalty in Dune Part 2 to an anarchist love interest in Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer and more recently we live in time. In 2021 she entered the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Yelena Belova in Black Widow. She reprised the role earlier this year in Thunderbolts' Asterisk. The asterisk is part of the title, in which they hatch a whole new generation of superheroes, an elite team.

I hadn't seen it when the chat happened, but I have seen it now. It's a lot of fun. I loved it. my 10-year-old. It's fun. Like a lot of those Marvel films, it's witty and enjoyable. But before all of that, Florence made her acting debut in The Falling. Then came scene, stealing turns in Lady Macbeth, The Wonder, the horror film Mid-Sommer, where I first encountered her work. That's well worth a watch. It's a very creepy and strange. Well, it's a horror film, but not of the conventional sort of bogey men, jump scares sort. It's like a depiction of a cult is the best way I can describe it. Don't worry, darling, in which we starred with Harry Stiles and Chris Pine,

and many, many more. This one was recorded in person in a rare gap in Florence's filming schedule. She arrived bruised from doing some kind of, I don't know, filming that was physically very tough. And I was, I don't know, to my shame, I was surprised that you might get bruised shooting scenes, but the physicality of the work was obviously something I'd underestimated. And Florence is someone who absolutely throws herself literally into the roles that she does.

It's something we talk about. We arranged the interview directly, person to person, on Instagram. I didn't slide into her DMs. That sounds weird. I just sent her a DM. Well, did I slide? I guess. but in a completely appropriate way

I asked her if she'd like to come on the podcast and she said yes she arrived with no minders no fanfare it was June it was very very hot it seems a long time ago now

it was a very hot spell and it wasn't hot in the studio I'm just painting the picture for you picture me arriving on my bicycle and I'm hot and then I come into the Spotify studio and I cool down okay I want that in your head

a warning there's strong language in the episode as well as adult themes discussion of mental health in general vulnerability and much much more all of that coming up this episode is brought to you by shopify when i was younger i always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete i was a fast runner i thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space as it happens. Neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Oh well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen.

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and start selling today at Shopify.com slash Louis, L-O-U-I-S. That's Shopify.com slash Louis, L-U-I-S. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you enjoying the warm weather? Amazing, but I'm not in it though. You're not in it right now, but you're in it when you're outside the building. I haven't been in it.

I've been in a studio doing stunts. Have you? For an unannounced project? Battered and bruised. You are actually bruised. You're that on your arm. What's that all about? I look like a Dalmatian.

What's kind of? What's going on? Doing his tons. So it's actually, how about that? I don't mean to smile. You're like, they actually go through. That's real. You actually go through.

I always feel like that's a little bit of Hollywood promotional. You know what I mean? But actually, that looks like you were hers. It does, isn't it? And there's something on the back. Is it Dune 3? That's the one that I'm going to next month. The one I'm doing now is a Marvel movie.

Avengers movie. Another one. Another one. I've seen so many of your films are loving. You know, you've been texting me that. Thank you so much. But I think one of the things around your career is that you've straddled the world of art house and also mainstream Hollywood, right? And which not everyone can do. And in fact, you've said that when you joined the MCU, you said so many people in the indie world were really pissed off at me.

They were like, great, now she's gone forever. And you said, no, I'm like, I'm working as hard as I used to. Did it feel like a big step when you when you, when you, when you, when you, entered into the mainstream franchise world? Because there's some actors who say, like, I won't do that. I think it's completely dependent on what you want your career to look like. And I knew I had such a firm footing in my love for making indie movies and for making low-budget movies.

And I knew that that was never going to go. It's a completely different feeling. And when I was 22, I think, 23, I got offered Black Widow and I remember asking a few people what the experience was like on those movies and so many people were just giving them so much praise for the freedom that you get and how it's a family and how it's a unit and they care for you and they look after you and it means that you also then can and will be able to support smaller movies and and how it's a great decision.

And I just really loved the idea that I get to do both, I get to experience both, I get to widen my range. And it also then means that because of the amount of people that are watching these movies, you're also giving more attention and more light to the smaller movies that maybe wouldn't have had that many bums on seats.

So in terms of like, I guess, like business helping business, they do wonderful things. and it was quite a clear decision for me to make and also it's fun and it's silly and it's not you're not dealing with normal circumstances I mean like just literally the other day I was on set with the most incredible cast

and we're all dressed in our superhero costumes and we're all playing like just playing as if we're saving the world and it's just such a unique thing to do You say it's a different feeling I think you meant something more modestly budgeted that's intended for a more select audience

versus a huge Marvel film which is freighted with certain financial expectations Do you mean in terms of the feeling on the set The feeling of the people involved? Absolutely everything It's a completely different feeling I think it exercises different parts of my brain It exercises different parts of my ability

It requires for me to step up in different things different ways to make sure that I'm protecting my character. You know, these machines are so big. It's very much up to you to make sure that every decision that is being made is correct. And so I think that when I go from a smaller movie to, I mean, even just any movie, I'm going on to June next month, it's, there's different energies in different ways. And I think I definitely need it. I like to be able to go from something that's, um,

massive to something that's that's small. And I think it allows me to be able to stretch in different ways and keep my brain and my body and my ability tested. I think what I admire about acting and you, especially because you're such a gifted actor, is that you seem so real. Whether it's just spontaneous or choices you're making or some combination,

I'm kind of in awe of your ability to be, to be so authentic in the scenes that you're in, you know, in the most unnatural environment, I could imagine. So I'm aware I haven't asked a question, but so how do you do that? How do I do that? I don't want to make anything that feels inside me wrong. I don't want to make anything that feels fake. I don't want to do anything.

I don't want to give any version of a performance that isn't a, aligning inside me correctly. Like I, and sometimes at the beginning of my career, I hadn't quite figured out the relationship between director and actor yet, and I found myself arguing a lot. I mean, it's something that I still do in a softer way now, but I think it was just,

I never wanted to be put in a situation that didn't feel right, and I didn't want them to have that and then use it. And I know that's obviously, you know, what a director is for and it's their version and it's what they want but I just always felt so protective of the character that I was playing

and who I wanted people to see her as that, yeah, I guess I didn't want to give over shit stuff but I was never rude or disrespectful. What does that mean though? But you mean you were protecting your performance which seems valid but we also like the framing on this shot is dreadful. No, not at all.

No, no, no. I'd never touch what they were doing. I wouldn't be like, my goodness, you're making a load of crap. I think when you can do things and you can do an array of things, um, lots of the stuff that you do might stick. It might look good, but it doesn't necessarily feel correct. And I think when I was younger, I definitely was aware that I could, I could do it the way that they wanted, um, but it would feel weird.

And I would, I would just make sure that we were making, we were making the right decisions for the right reasons. would you if they said let's go for another take and would you ever say no i think we've got it no no no really would that be a big that would be a big move no way can't do that what if they someone said that on my behalf for me did they yeah a co-star i think women on set um it's a bit stickier you can't really be a problem because people will say that you're a nightmare really and i remember i was doing like a crying scene

and there were just all of these specific beats that I needed to get and specifically on specific lines and we did it maybe like six times and each time you have to start with no tears and then gear up so it's like you have to stay in it and we got it and the director wanted to go again six times you did it six times

and when I'm in that state I kind of I'm a bit mushy so I'm like okay we'll do it again And my co-star went up to the director and said, don't do that, man. Don't put her through that. She's got it. We got it. You've got the close-up.

You've got the wide. Don't do that. And I realized when I was in the tent, I was like, I wouldn't have been able to have said that because that wouldn't have been received well. Interesting. Was your co-star male or female?

Yeah, male. Mail. Nice that he did that. Do you think that was the right thing to do? If they had it, they had it. Yeah. What did the director say? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

straight way wow how real are the emotions yeah so I'm changing that it used to be quite horribly real when I did midsamar

the character is in such a horrible state in her life and she's constantly on the brink of a panic attack or an emotional breakdown and I'd never ever been through anything close to that or knew anyone

that had been through that or feels like that. For the audience, I loved Midsoma and that was the first film that I'd seen you in. It's directed by Ariaster. How would you... It's a horror film, but that doesn't really do it justice. Because it's also like an ethnographic study of a Scandinavian cult.

And like a lot of Ariasda, well, the other one I'm thinking of is hereditary, he's gone so deep in the folkloric aspects of it that you feel like this could, all be true. And in fact, a lot of it is true. Yeah. For example, there's an elderly couple who've hit 75 and they said, because we're 75 now, we jump off a cliff and kill ourselves. It's the end of the lives. They don't sound like that. I wish they did. But then you Google it, and that's a real thing. Apparently in some communities when you hit 75 in ancient times,

you would commit, I can't remember what the word is. Well, the reason why they have that belief is their thought is, well, you're going to put us in a home anyway and past this age, we're just going to be a nuisance, so we may as well make the decision ourselves to go out. It's very occurant in the sense of being glib now. I mean, if it wasn't... Part of the debate, a sister dying. If it wasn't so gruesome, the way that they died,

I'd be all for it. It's like they say about, they used to say about Inuits that they went, you know, when it was always a woman for some reason. When she got too old, they'd put her on an ice float and push her out into the sea. Poor girl. Good luck, Granny. Jesus Christ.

And what's horrific in the scene is like, is his elderly, rather beautiful old couple. The guy is the guy who is in a Visconti film. Yes. It's the most beautiful boy in the world. And he was shooting his documentary while we were making that movie. No way. So he had his camera team there.

And I remember we were all like, what's going on there? And then we all got told. I haven't seen the documentary of you. I have, it's beautiful, sad, very sad. It's about the sort of strange, his elevation. To stardom, he was a very young man. Yeah, because he was so beautiful. Because he was such a beautifully handsome man.

But your point was, oh, no, I was just scene setting for the audience, that's right. And then your co-star get, is this a spoiler? People should have seen it by now, guys, come on. Well, let's put it as an image. Your co-star's imprisoned in a kind of bear carcass and drugged. Is that right? Or is that you? You're not in a bear carcass, are you?

No, I'm not in a bare carcass. I haven't seen it since. It's so good. So essentially the beginning of the movie for the people that are listening, this poor girl, Danny, goes through a horrific phone call which she finds out that her mum and her dad and her sister have all died in a group suicide. And we then meet her, I don't know how many months later,

but she is now dealing with that. But yeah, as I was saying, I had never seen that level. of grief or mental health in the way that was being asked of me on the page. So for that, I really put myself through it. But it was also interesting to see what worked and didn't work by the end of the movie. Like at the beginning, I just imagined hearing the news

that one of my siblings had died. And then towards the middle of the shoot was like, oh no, I actually needed to imagine the coffins. And then towards the end of the shoot, I actually was going to my whole family's funeral. It was like, I played. Do what, to get a better performance out of yourself? I think just the heaviness.

I really, I just didn't know. The thing that I was being required to do was something that I'd never, I didn't know how to get there. It wasn't just crying. It was like I needed to sound pain. And anyway, I'd never done anything like that before. And I was like, okay, well, here's my opportunity. I need to give this a go.

And I would just basically put myself through hell. But I don't do that anymore. Because... Really fucked me up. Talk more about that. I felt like I... Well, I manipulated myself for sure. But I really used myself.

And I think the part of my brain that was trying to separate Danny from Florence, which I also have never had a problem with before, when I left on the plane. So I finished, Midsamar, got on a plane and flew to Boston to shoot little women. And there was a separation of three days. When I was on the plane, I kind of knew where the field was outside of the Budapest airport. And I remember looking down at the field

and I started weeping because I felt like I'd left Danny there, like I'd left her to figure out how to do the rest of her life. And it's obviously a really, I mean, it's interesting. But like my brain was obviously feeling sympathy for myself because I'd abused myself and like really manipulated my own. emotions to get a performance but I also then felt sorry for what I'd done

but yeah it was very very strange and I've never ever been worried about my characters from the day that I finish I'm always like yeah they're good they'll be fine but she was the one that I felt I was like I felt like I'd left her

in that field with the film crew just filming her cry yeah did you feel like you could have done with a little more support Sounds like. Probably, but it was a mad movie for everyone. Was it? Yeah, it was unbelievably hot.

We were working with three different languages in a field. And there was a cast of like 100 and something or other, 130, something like that. I love horror. I've even seen malevolent. Not per research. I just happened to have seen it. Weird.

You're really good in it. It's not bad. I didn't watch it. Did you not? No. Probably the one movie that I wish I never did. No, I think everybody has one of those movies. Why do you wish you hadn't done it?

I think it was just a, it was a movie that I did when I was younger and I needed money. And I was like, well, obviously, this is great. And then I got there and it wasn't great. Malevolent is a horror film set in Scotland. In their fake kind of psychic, supernatural detectives who then stumble upon a real haunting. We can talk about other movies. I'm just putting that out of it. We're going to mention it.

We should just fill the people in. Oh, I see, so is easy. But your point was like it used to be real. But now, so how did you take a different approach now? Is that right in your acting? Yeah, I just can't exhaust myself like that because it has a knock on effect. I think it made me sad for like six months after that. And I didn't know why I was depressed.

I got back after shooting Little Women and Little Women was such a fun experience because we were just... Which is a terrific film as well, by the way. Thank you. and obviously a completely different tone from Midsomar so I think shelled all of that and then when I got home for Christmas I was so depressed I was like oh I think that's from Midsama and I didn't deal with it and I probably shouldn't do that again

So how do you if you take a slightly different approach now which is what I'm hearing how does it work now how do you kind of deliver performances of that calibre without going to a dark place I think my skills have got better I think for years I could never cry on cue, and it was totally terrifying.

The idea of getting a role where I would cry was like, shit. And then I did King Lear, and it literally says in the script, Cordelia cries. Because obviously, King Lear needs to wipe away her tears. And I remember, it was like, we were doing rehearsals, and Richard, the director was like, and obviously then you'll cry. And I was like, mm-hmm. Who was the director? Richard. Richard, Air.

And Tony Hopkins, I call him Tony. I've never met him. Anthony Hopkins played Lear. Yeah. Perfect. Oh, heaven. And it was such a huge opportunity for me. And I was the baby.

And every single person in that room were just legends. And I just remember being really scared about that scene. So then it got to that day. And on the first take, I managed to squeeze out one. And I was like, wow. And Richard was like, no, I need more. Really? I was like, ah.

And I did just like, I think from the panic. and just suddenly feeling really scared and embarrassed and I was just like standing there in front of Anthony Hopkins and all these incredible actors and I just, my body went like, well, you got to do it! And I did it and I remember thinking, yes, well, I've passed that fear, unlocked that. So I think every time you do a movie,

you're understanding new ways to manage yourself, like you're a machine and you need to oil things in certain ways. Wow. And I think... A motion machine. Yeah, and I think every single movie, I've found better ways to do it. So when I did Midsomile, that's why, when I received that role,

I had never done anything like that, and I didn't like crying on camera. It just didn't happen. And so that's why I kind of exposed, I suppose, myself. And I'm not doing that again. But I'm getting better with it. But do you think you're drawn to the darker material? I think I'm drawn to, yeah, maybe, I guess so.

I've done loads of it. If you look at a script and it's like, would you return a script down because it didn't feel like it had something of that? No. No. What are you looking for then? Okay, the thing that I'm actually, in every script that I read, there has to be, and I know this now,

there has to be a moment in the script where I'm not scared of the horror, but where I'm scared of if I'll be able to do it. So that's the thing that makes me lurch forward. If it's something that I've never done before, never been shot before, or if I don't know if I can take myself there, the moment I get like pangs of nerves, I know that I'm probably going to end up doing it.

And what is that likely to be? It could be anything. Like with Thunderbolts, I jumped off the second tour building in the world. And that was like, terrifying. For you, that was a big part of the appeal of the script. Well, we were going to do it anyway. But yes, that was amazing. To be able to do that, I've never done.

done anything like that before. And I had to act at the same time. So it was like, well, that's a huge test. I wanted to ask about that. But then I thought, then a little part of it was like, that very movie junket question. Do you know, you can ask about it? Can I? Yeah. How many times would you estimate you've been asked about it in the last couple of months? But I don't care though, because it was, that was the point of doing it. Like, it was. 30, 40? Probably more than that. Really? I, um. When you go into autopilot, I feel like you'll die behind your eyes. No. That was such an exciting stunt. I don't mind. talking about it.

It was so cool to achieve that on a film shoot. So essentially the movie is about mental health and depression. And this character, Yelena, we find her at the beginning of the script at the top of a building and you think for a second, oh shit, is she going to die right now? And then she jumps off. And halfway down the jump, she pulls out the parachute. and starts her mission. Then halfway through shooting

it got pulled out because they obviously tried to figure it out and it didn't work and they were like, no way are we throwing down to a pew off a building and then I found out

and I wasn't happy about it and I got to my emails and I started emailing. Good for you. Would that be an insurance issue for them? 100%. They do not want to throw any actor off a building

Oh, accidents do happen. Or stunts, really. They can go wrong. So I think for me, I just realized how, I, first of all, just the idea of starting a movie like that was so powerful and amazing. And I really wanted this movie to feel impressive from the moment you press play. So I fought very hard for that to be in. And of course, they couldn't really, they couldn't really carry it past the line

because they can't really be in a position where they're forcing me to jump off a building. So it really had to be something that I needed to pull. Jake obviously wanted it to happen, the director. Jake, what's his? Jake Shriar. Shriar, he seemed like a nice man. He's brilliant, really, really brilliant.

And we managed to do it. And then when it all got passed, that it was, we were allowed to do it. Then in actual reality, we had to figure out how to do it and how they were going to get a structure on the top of that building. and then I obviously needed to start practicing, jumping off something

so that we could figure out the shape of the fall and what looked the best, what looked most beautiful, what looked most hopeless, I suppose. And Heidi Moneymaker was the stunt coordinator. She actually was Scarlett Johansson, the stunt double for years throughout all of the Marvel movies that Scarlett did.

So she coordinated the stunt, well, the stunts on the movie. And we managed to pull it off and it was just absolutely insane. What did you actually have to do in the moment? Like you're dangling, describe them just the mechanics of the specific event. Okay, so we have to do probably like 30 minutes, maybe 20 minutes of checks before I get LinkedIn to go off the edge myself. To get me to the edge, there has to be two men that deliver me to the edge, sit me down,

and then everybody needs to leave frame. So I'm the only person that's, well, yeah, I'm like the only person that's on that side of the building. And then the camera needs to be set and then we obviously shoot. Now the only issue with all of that is that because it was such a tall building,

it was constantly getting hit by lightning. And so once you get an alarm about how lightning's coming in, everybody needs to evacuate the roof and get downstairs, immediately that takes about 15 minutes and everybody needs to unclipped their carabiners

and go all the way down and then we wait until the lightning is done so on the day of shooting I got clipped in twice and just as we were about to shoot they said lightning strike so I didn't actually get to jump for about three hours

but got close to jumping and then got told to go downstairs so there was so much energy and by the time that it was actually time for me to get off the edge. I practically lurched myself. You're jumping on. And then what are you jumping onto? Nothing. So what, but you, so then what happens? So are you in a harness and you're, in a harness? So do you bounce or what happens? So essentially the winch is, is behind me. So when I

step up, the winch is behind me and then the winch moves past me. And as the winch moves past me, you can kind of actually see in the take, there's a tiny tug where the winch has pulled me and I'd obviously don't want to fall off the edge. So I pull myself. back and then the call goes ready and three two one and I then step off and the harness obviously I free fall for about six seven meters and then over over just the streets of Kuala Lumpur I thought there was going to be a net I think there'd be like a platform yeah there isn't no so it feels like you're just stepping out over the void yeah well it feels like I'm throwing myself off a building.

That must be terrifying. And you know what's funny is even though I knew all the pizza and I knew what was happening and I knew that I'd got myself there, every single time I had jumped off, my brain flashed and thought, fuck, you've done it, you're going to die, it's done. Every single time, naturally it would. How many times did you have to do it? Did it four times on the test day and five times on the shoot day. Wow.

Did it get easier? Yes and no. The first time it was a bit blurry. Yes, I know. And then you three, four, three, fall for six or seven meters. Yeah, and then you go, kunk. And then it goes, do, yeah, and then you go, and then you're just hanging there.

And I kept on thinking how crazy it was that these little bits of straps were just holding me up. That's wild. Yeah, it's amazing, though, life experience. Never going to, I can never do that again, can I? Like, that's never going to happen again. You're quite fearless, I think. I think that's what I like in roles.

Can we relate it to your health scares growing up? Should we talk about that? Sure. So basically, it sounds from reading about you, you grew up in Oxfordshire, what was the name of the town? Or was it outside Oxford? Yeah, Oxford. Oxford.

You've heard of that one. And one of the things that, you know, I'm reading about you, so you had this medical situation, and correct me if I'm wrong, there was a time when your parents thought you might not lead a full life. Yeah, I have a breathing issue, which has obviously got better as I got older. But when I was younger, essentially I was born and my breathing tubes were really, really floppy. So I have trachymalacia.

And when I came out, the scan of me looked like there was just something flat on my chest. So from the get-go, there was something wrong and I sounded like a goose. My laugh is kind of how I used to sound, so you can hear it. And there were plenty of... When you inhale, it still sounds... Yeah. See? There you go. So I then had many years of ups and downs,

and I think that was a bit traumatic for my mum and my dad. Your parents thought you might not make it, basically. I don't think anyone really knew what it was that I had I think they just knew that I couldn't breathe and it obviously affects your immune system as well so you become really really tender to anything else that's around you. Is it genetic? No, it's just a disability in my throat.

Really? I don't get as ill as I used to but even now as an adult whenever I do get ill it's the same fall so it just gets quite scary quite quickly you don't get as ill as often as you used to do you mean but when you do get ill it's pretty intense yeah um and what could bring it on I usually get ill after working for a long period of time like when I've when I've been

you know pushed and I've had a lot of adrenaline and usually after press tours I get quite ill or after I've been shooting a really long movie and it's just when my body stops and then I'll be around someone that has a cold and it will it will you know quickly get to a chest infection and it has to be stopped really, really quickly. But when I was younger, it would obviously be scary because I was in and out of hospital, so I'd come back for Christmas and I'd have pneumonia

or whatever it was. And it wasn't a very pleasant time. My mum can't really, she doesn't really like talking about it. Really? Well, she does, and we know what happened, but I think it was just a very scary, sad time. For you as well? I remember, yeah, I remember being in and out of hospital.

Yeah, I remember my body hurting. How old would you have been? So we moved to Spain when I was three and I remember before that. So, yeah, in and out of hospital for a few years. And then I'd get lots of tests done to see what it was because they still didn't know what it was. Because for a years it was like, well, she's got severe asthma, but it wasn't quite that. And then when I was 10, I got diagnosed with Trachy Malaysia. Did you move to Spain for the weather?

because of that. Because of that. Your parents, the whole family. Yeah. That's a big step, isn't it? Yeah. It's a lovely childhood, though. How long were you there for?

Three years. Three and a bit years. Whereabouts were you? We were in Soto Grande. Say that again. Soto Grande. Soto Grande. Where is that?

That's like half an hour, 20 minutes on the coast from Gibraltar. Nice. It was lovely. It was really, really sweet. And we were kids for a really long time and cycling around on bikes and always in and out of everybody's pools. It was like, it was perfect. This episode is brought to you by Shopify.

When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics. or be blasted off into space, as it happens. Neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Ah well, we've all had big dreams, and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it,

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and start selling today at Shopify.com slash Louis, L-O-U-I-S. That's Shopify.com slash Louis, L-O-U-I-S. How is your energy? I like that you ask people that. It's very sweet. It's 1115. I think we've got a bit of time. Yeah, we do.

I might need a wee in a bit. Please. Fete comchee vu. Go right ahead. Speaking of, how do you feel about you're very free in your performances? And I'm just curious about, you know, one of the things that's come up in conversations about sets and set dynamics is intimacy. Co-officers. Yeah, coordinators. Is that the term? And actually, you often hear people, I've heard Michaela Cole say, oh, I love my intimacy coordinator. And then one or two people, Gwyneth Paltrow is one. Mikey Madison, apparently. Do you know about this? In Anora, said she didn't want an intimacy coordinator. They're the people who can make sure that the acting of the intimate scenes goes well, goes smoothly for everyone. And that people are safe. And that they're safe. It's not to get in the way.

It's not to confuse. It's not to make things more complicated or make things more awkward. It's simply to make sure that everybody is happy with what they're creating. And also that you're creating things that have meaning to them. I think I've had good ones and bad ones. I did a lot of my sex scenes before that was even a job. Really? And I think I'm quite confident, I'm quite happy in my skin and I've always been able to make sure that I'm heard.

That being said, even though I know that I believe that and even though I know that I felt that at the time, there are plenty of things that I remember where it was just completely inappropriate to have asked me to do that, to have directed me in that way. But it's my view is changing about it as well because I'm now having fantastic. experiences with intimacy coordinators. However, that being said, I've also had like a shit example where someone just made it so weird and so awkward and really wasn't helpful and kind of was just like wanting to be a part of the set in a way that wasn't helpful. And I think it's like it's a job that's still figuring itself out. But I will say that I've been able to

understand better meaning now through working with great ones. in sex scenes, finding the story of what it is, what kind of sex is it, how do you touch each other, how long have you been having sex for? All of these things really, really matter when you're trying to build, for example, like a relationship that's been going for 10 years. And I'd never thought of it like that before

because sex scenes are so awkward for everybody on set. So much at the time, you're like, okay, okay, so then you'd go there and all right, brilliant, and then it's done, and you're like, kind of, everybody's just kind of working way to chip away at the scene. And I think when I worked with a fantastic coordinator, I was like, oh, this is what I've been missing,

understanding the dance of intimacy as opposed to just shooting a sex scene. So I do think it's like there are good ones and bad ones and it's through the good one that I have learned how effective it can really be. How kind of sort of literal is it? Is it sort of like we've agreed these, this set of... Yeah, whereas before that was never the case. Really? Before, so now what will happen is the conversations around the sex scenes

will happen for maybe a good few weeks beforehand, which is important, so everybody feels comfortable and it's not embarrassing saying certain things anymore. Then they'll usually ask what your comfort levels... What embarrassing is saying, what kind of things? Well, most of the time, whenever you'd come to a sex scene, you'd come, like years ago, you'd come to set and you'd start talking about it then. And then you'd be trying to discuss like what your vision was or what their vision was.

And it was all very only in that moment that you'd be discussing it. So it would feel a bit strange or a bit, yeah, awkward. Whereas I think now the communication and talking about it happens for, you know, a good chunk of, time beforehand. So everybody feels aware of what's going to happen, how they're going to shoot it. You have safe words, you have areas that you don't like being touched, areas that are fine for someone to touch. All of these conversations are actually now happening, whereas before they didn't happen before. Are some bits taped off? Like, would you have coverings over certain parts of you? Would you wear little, like, slips and things? And it's their job to be in charge

of that. So you can imagine before, there wasn't a specific person on set to be in charge of your coverage. So costume were in charge of it, which they always are, and sometimes they would do a great job. Sometimes they'd just get you one type of thong that might not work on you, might not fit you. So I had experience in the past where we were using wig glue to like stitch me down because someone wasn't really thinking about it, wasn't really looking after that part of it. But you've now got a dedicated person that is there to make sure that all of your comfort is being thought about. And what's allowed on camera, what's not allowed on camera,

all of that is also arranged with your lawyer because that has to be put into the contract. Yeah. So your lawyer will basically be going through and making sure that a nudity rider, what you are allowing and what you're not allowing. And it will be spelled out. Yes.

To the point we'll say... Yes. Will not show, will show. Nipple. Nipple. Upper breast. on show, will not show vagina, will not show this or whatever it is. It's like, well, and then it'll be like, we'll show rear shot, but only from this scene onwards

or only from. But then also it has to be, everybody has to be aware of what's being shot. So I wouldn't, for example, go to set having just said, I don't mind my bump being on camera without knowing what their shot is because if their shot is then to actually put the camera here and I'm bending over, that's not something that I'd ever agree to.

So everything has to be spelled out. Also, those days are so, everybody has to be so tender because it's very exposing and the crew are super respectful. Everybody looks away when you undress, everybody looks away when you dress. The only time that they are focused

is when you're doing the scene. cameraman turn their backs or camera women turn their backs. Everybody's very, very, very aware of how gentle the day should feel. And obviously you have closed set. So the monitors won't be, if it's a good set, the monitors will not be on outside of the room. You know, it's reminded me that we were talking about your health growing up. And this sort of relates to boundaries and, you know, the sense of policing what you you're willing to do and not willing to do, which isn't as easy as you might think it would be,

especially if you're trying to be receptive and collaborative, but the fearlessness that came up early and the sense that it might be, in some ways, you know, having been through so much growing up, whether it really is connected to that, or maybe that's just part of your personality. But am I right? I think like my read of you is that you are someone who sort of knows her own mind and is sort of, has a real appetite to challenge herself. Yeah, I do like challenging myself. And I think every single job that I do, I make sure that I'm not comfortable. And I think what I like about the stuff that I shoot is I'm trusting very specific directors to receive that part of me.

So it doesn't go without making sure that the director knows that I'm in their hands because I trust them. And if that ever has been broken, it's very sad. And it happens all the time Well No I mean I'm saying for lots of actors it does Has it happened for you? Yeah Are we going to talk about that?

No Okay It's a check like everything gets Generates headlines I know and these podcasts They're so fun to talk And then tomorrow That was actually recording

Well no it's more that You know people don't They don't do your journalism They then go Jeez said this Yeah yeah it gets reduced It gets reduced And then it's like well

We're having a conversation Speaking of, so how are you enjoying superstardom? It's funny to know when it started really. You never feel like you're there. So it's tricky to know when it was that it actually was changing. I think it started changing for me around little women. 2019. 2019.

And then we went into COVID lockdown and the world stopped. And so I sort of had like this weird pause. So I didn't, I think that's probably when I didn't, what I didn't realize that it was growing because it was happening while everybody was, you know, not going about normal life as well. But I wasn't really aware of that. And I think that's probably what kind of stunted my awareness of the trajectory of my career. But it's, it's, it's all rewarding. It's because people appreciate what you're doing and appreciate the work that you make and appreciate. is there's more to it than that though isn't there like actually because there's this whole

ancillary industry that isn't about the work it's about the fact that you're incredibly famous and I think we should acknowledge that is that what you're asking well I'm asking superstardom it's double-ed isn't it because you will be able to keep working and you can open a big movie and people millions of people love what you do and then millions of people are just following it like it's a soap opera yeah and commenting online and maybe making remarks that are hurtful and I think you have to that's all part of of the same thing. Yeah, it is.

I think you just have to be aware that the more and more work that you do, the more you expose yourself, the more that you put out there, the bigger following you'll receive. And it's not really something that you have control over. If you keep working and you like what you do and you keep making movies, you'll have to do a press store that will promote you even further. So it's tricky in that sense, yeah, because the more and more work that you want to make or you want to put out there is meaning that you're closing off

your independence or your freedom. Privacy. Privacy. You don't talk about your relationships. Not anymore. Why not? With relationships and with romance in this world, it doesn't matter how much you speak on it

or how little you speak on it. People don't care. They want a story. They want, they sort of want, like, a reality show and so it doesn't really matter how much you say you love someone or how much they make you happy if they don't like them and it doesn't fit that image that they want of you they don't care and I think that hurt me when you were in a relationship and it was criticised yes and I stood up for it and I stood up for him and I stood up for me just being

allowed to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do and that kind of did actually change a few people minds. And I actually had a few people in the public eye reach out to me and say, I don't think of it like that. And thank you for saying that. But I think generally it's just funny, isn't it? And also, since then, I've got bigger. I've become a different star. People will probably want to know a little bit more. And I think you have to just ask yourself, the more you expose, the more you're allowing people to have comment on it. And if they don't know, they can't really make comment on it. That being said, I think I'll always defend people that I love.

I will always stand up for them. I'll always make sure that if there needs to be a reset and there needs to be a bit of a smack on the wrist, I will do that because it's not fair that so much of your life gets to have jabs. But I think something that has really... Do you need to be a reset? Do you mean you're defending someone else? No, I mean online, because that's essentially what happened years ago.

You know, there was an insane amount of abuse being hurled at my relationship just because there was an age gap. And we say it was Zach Braff? Yeah. Yes. And I... And I...

And it got to the point where it was just really horrible to see someone that you are with receiving that. And it was never at me, it was only at him. and I think it just I just needed to kind of just check everyone and so I made a video and it got a lot of love and lots of people were supportive which was great and I think people do online need to be reminded that we're real I think there's so much of it

we're living in a time with Instagram where it's encouraged to show every single part of your life which sometimes is slippy because you accidentally do it and then you go fuck I just showed them this and now they're expected to see more and it's tricky also when you when when that's it's so easy to make stories or it's so easy to share or it's so easy to um allow people in but you have to also remind yourself that you're letting them in and um and you have to i guess like check yourself and also check the way that people are talking about you or talking at you or talking about your life and then also you have to ask yourself if it's necessary.

So if I am exposing that part of my life and people are saying nasty things, it's like, okay, well, the one thing I can do is stop talking about that part of my life. Last, we should shout out, We Live in Time, the film you did with Andrew Garfield. It's a tear churker. Did you like it?

I did, yeah, it was very, it was sad, but also... Happy. Happy, all the emotional moods. I enjoyed the... It's got an unfulfuls, an unpredictable. chronology. It's not sequential and so you try to figure out where you are in the story and that kind of keeps you

moving through it. Here's the quote. You can leave this on the table. Shall I say this? I'll say it and we can just not touch it. You said on her relationship, I've learned that love is not supposed to hurt. This is something you said. It's also not meant to be easy but it's not supposed to hurt. Oh, I did that in a, yeah, an interview magazine.

The amount that it hurts is not supposed to show the amount of love there is. Getting the Louis blinks. Yeah, I think I have done quite a fair bit of growing, a fair bit of working on myself. I think the further and further away you get from a relationship that was causing you're causing you pain. obviously the love reduces and so you realise just how much pain you were in and I think that that kind of inspired me well I needed to to be honest

really kick myself into looking inwards figuring out why I thought I deserve that kind of love making sure that that doesn't happen again making sure that I am changing I'm growing I'm taking accountability for things I'm healthier now I'm a lot happier now

I think when you're such a when you're such a bubbly person and you fill in a lot of energy for other people it's definitely I'm definitely the last person that I look after and there's an expectancy I feel I felt like there was an expectancy

that I needed to be good for everybody else I needed to be upbeat for everybody else and my issues, my worries, my pains weren't worthy of being spoken about. They weren't necessary to speak about because it would bring people down and we don't want that. And so I think for a long time,

I didn't expose that part of my life to even my friends. And then, of course, you find yourself in a pit or in a mess. You mean the part that's not well? Yeah, the part that's not well, the part that a relationship is feeding into, the part that, you know, it's all kind of murky and messy and it's that people pleaser thing where you just try and keep things afloat without anybody else knowing that you're paddling for dear life. And I think it was an important change that was brought on by. a breakup, which is where you got that quote from. Do you think, was there anything that helped you have the insight to end the relationship?

I'm just wondering if we can make it almost practical, because I think a lot of people could relate to that. And I think in relationships in general, a lot of them you're thinking about, is this a good relationship? Is this a healthy relationship? Am I giving too much? Well, I think that's where the quote kind of comes in, is that I think for a while I really thought that the amount that it was hurting was the same amount of love that there was in the relationship. And I think that kind of got weaponised. By you? Like you weaponised it against yourself? No. Within the relationship. It was like, oh, this hurts so much because we care.

It's hurt so much because we love each other so much. And unfortunately, that's just not how love should be treated. And I think the danger with that is when things go wrong or there's little microaggressions of tiny versions of whatever abuse it is, whether it's verbal or emotional or manipulative. It kind of gets further and further away from what's normal. And so then you find yourself at the end going, oh shit, a lot of weird stuff is happening.

and I've normalized this and it is not normal to feel like this and it is not normal to be treated like this and then also your behaviour gets normalised as well you know you're a part of this weird kind of messy feeling and it doesn't at the end of the day feel good so I think that's what I was trying to say a messy, yeah dynamic and I think

so do you think it's the case that people how does one check in about that Like how does, because as you say, it becomes normalized and then how do you think you take the temperature on what's really going on? Is it by speaking to a council or checking in with friends? Probably. Sometimes friends also, though, they sort of encourage, you know, because outside is like, you shouldn't be putting up with that or. And then they don't really see what's going on necessarily. And you don't know that you're giving the best version of what, it's really, it's really complicated.

It is. I don't know what you do in that situation. I think obviously communicating is the most important thing. I stopped communicating. That's where it went wrong. I wasn't telling people anything. So no one had a clue. Outside the relationship, you mean?

No one knew. So how did you have a breakthrough then? Because I had a breakdown. Really? Yeah. And that's fairly obvious when that happens. And when you're hurting your body, you know, when you're not sleeping

or you're drinking too much or you've got the shits because you're so anxious like that's your body screaming at you I found myself like injured I would injure myself I'd be chopping and I'd like chop huge chunks out of my hands

and like I've just never done that since my body was just like in full panic mode it wasn't I was injuring myself in order to look after myself which is a funny thing of my body asking for help, but I think it became increasingly obvious

that something wasn't right. But its hindsight is always a... It's a funny thing. Are you in a relationship now? I am, yeah. Does it feel good? Very good. Congratulations.

Thank you. So, we look into the future. Yes. Would you direct? I would love to direct. I'd love to direct, but because of situations, that I've had in the past where leadership is a bit wonky,

I just really want to make sure that I'm ready for it. I really want to make sure that I've done my due diligence. I know how to talk to actors. I know how to hold a set together. And I think because I know how awful it can feel when it goes wrong, I've been very, very apprehensive about starting that journey of actually then doing it. I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't want to fuck anyone up.

and I don't want You're you are the leader of a ship You're looking after so many people It's a huge responsibility I want to do it properly If I were to do it I think we're great

Listen you've brought so much Thank you Into the room Trying to think We went We went to places I mean We're just strange

You're going to need Six months to recover From this interview No Just things that I wasn't even like Oh we're going to talk about that Which bit Like some of the movies

malevolent? If there's one takeaway, it's definitely seem malevolent. No! Okay, welcome back. Thank you for watching. Thank you to Florence for joining me. What a powerful conversation, in my humble opinion. And to say again, that All the films she's in, she brings maximum performance, odd phrase.

Like, not all the films are excellent. In fact, she didn't want to talk about malevolent, which I, you know, I thought was okay. Like, I like horror films, so it sort of scratched the itch. But I can see why she might not think it's her favorite piece of work. But what were the other ones? The wonder is really dark and powerful, kind of brilliantly twisted about a woman exploring an apparently paranormal religious phenomenon in rural Ireland in the 19th century. Lady Macbeth is harrowing, dark and kind of brilliant.

And I think criminally underrated, don't worry, darling, which gets 38%. I just looked on rotten tomatoes. And I just think that's, why is that? I don't know. Snobbery? it's the kind of high concept sci-fi that is right in my wheelhouse

random fact in preparing my research so it's about I think it's fair to say it's sort of about misogyny and about community where the women are kept in a sort of state

of mysterious subjection Olivia Wilde, the director has said she was inspired to make it by Jordan Peterson like in other words the Canadian psychologist who's become a controversial figure on the right

I think something about his profile alarmed her and that was part of what inspired her to make the film this is kind of interesting to me because I follow that stuff for my documentary work in an interview with interview magazine Olivia Wilde said we base that character the character of Chris Pine the guru on this insane man Jordan Peterson who's this pseudo intellectual hero to the in-cell community. Peterson responded.

He said, Now, Pine, he's got quite a high voice. Now, Pine has a reputation as quite an attractive man, so that could be worse. That's actually a pretty good Peterson impression. I also hope that Chris Pine at least does the sartorial splendor of my very formal public wardrobe justice. I'm getting higher. As he pillories me in the latest bit of propaganda disseminated by the woke,

self-righteous Boris and bullies, who now dominate Hollywood. I'm getting higher. And who insist on the production of such tripe. So there, a little bit of background info on that. Wow, I've derailed myself. Inuits, the term Eskimo, I think, is not favoured anymore. Inuits, the indigenous people of northern America and Siberia,

northern North America. I think I said that sometimes the Inuit people would put, older ladies on ice flows or blocks of ice and then pushed them out to perish at sea. It was kind of cavalierly and maybe glibly thrown out as a factoid. Millie's done some digging. Well, there's so much information in this outro. We've got the Peterson. Hello, I'm Jordan Peterson, Bucco.

Peterson is famous thing. Bucco, I never thought anyone actually would say Bucco. I thought that was something you just heard like in fiction. You're wrong about that. Oh, it's woke Hollywood nonsense. You know, with the Steve Coogan one, I was saying I can't do impressions. It turns out I can do so many impressions that enters the LT impression lexicon alongside, I'm not going to bend a spoon for you, Louis.

I can't do more than one at a time. I can't do Peterson straight into Geller. That is too much to ask. I'm not a professional. I'm just a gifted amateur. There's evidence that Sennyson. Great word, the killing of older people, was rare, but existed in Inuit communities. Yes.

But not yes to the doing it, but yes to the correctness of me saying it. Mainly what I got from the chat, though, wasn't the senocide. It was Florence's appetite for life and for work. And I was thinking about it afterwards. And, you know, we spoke about her brush with health issues that are still ongoing. and that that seems, this is my amateur psychologist portion, but that that's given her a lust for life, that she attacks life with someone who's got a renewed appreciation for how valuable it is and wants to make every day count. So there, I'm being sincere now, and maybe there's

a lesson in that. Maybe I could be a bit more like that. I've got a lust for life and other things. What does that mean? That's it for this week, apart from the credits. The producer was other things like fine wine and chocolate. Where was your mind going? The producer was Millie Choo. The assistant producer was Sally McLennan. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. The audio mix was by Tom Guest. The video mix was by Scott Edwards. The music in this series was by Miguel Di Olivera. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows. This is a Mindhouse production for This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete.

I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Oh, well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales.

The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shepard. Shopify.com slash Louie, L-O-U-I-S. That's Shopify.com slash Louis, L-O-U-I-S.