The Louis Theroux Podcast - S7 EP3: Lulu discusses alcoholism, marrying a Bee Gee, and David Bowie’s thighs

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Louis is joined in the Spotify studio by Scottish singer, actor and TV personality Lulu. The pair discuss her struggles with alcoholism, being married to a Bee Gee, and her intimate knowledge of David Bowie’s thighs. Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.     Links/Attachments:    Song: ‘Shout’, the Isley Brothers (1959)  https://open.spotify.com/track/72VH13PSrYh963lzB5NzG4    To Sir, With Love (1967)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062376/     Book: Lulu: I Don’t Want To Fight, Lulu (2020)  https://www.waterstones.com/book/lulu-i-dont-want-to-fight/lulu/9780751546255     Book: If Only You Knew, Lulu (2025)  https://www.waterstones.com/book/if-only-you-knew/lulu/9781399744249     TV Show: ‘It’s Lulu’ (1970-1973) - BBC  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299320/     TV Show: ‘Lulu’ (1975) - BBC   https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072537/     Song: ‘Getting To Know You’, Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein III (1951)  https://open.spotify.com/track/0aGN51LOR5E4zQAqhT1Ok7 (not 1951 version)    Song: ‘Climb Ev’ry Mountain’, Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein III (1959)  https://open.spotify.com/track/5ewWvQPbrBf8Z9TKmYaRY6 (not 1959 version)    TV Show: ‘Happening For Lulu’ (1968-1969) - BBC  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063926/     Jimi Hendrix on Lulu’s show (1969)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usel2OAtQ_s&list=RDUsel2OAtQ_s&start_radio=1    TV Show: ‘Not Only...But Also’ (1965-1970) - BBC  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0128004/     Article: Jimi Hendrix Banned from BBC   https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032vp1d     Song: ‘The Man Who Sold the World’, Lulu (1974)  https://open.spotify.com/track/36jha42uJrGq7Ew9REPLIo     Song: Boom Bang a Bang', Lulu (1969) written by Alan Moorhouse and Peter Warne  https://open.spotify.com/track/67HolMSJIT9IMPhxieOHeu     TV Special: ‘When Louis Met... Jimmy’ (2000) - BBC   https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0304938/     Louis Theroux: Savile (2016)   https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yc9zh     TV Show: ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ (1975-2007) - BBC   https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197163/     The Bee Gees: How Can You Mend a Broken Heart (2020)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9850386/     Saturday Night Fever (1977)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076666/     Song: ‘Night Fever’, The Bee Gees (1977)   https://open.spotify.com/track/4t2euPkyLUs5n5j1HDZ2Tr     Song: ‘To Love Somebody’, The Bee Gees (1967) written by Barry and Robin Gibb  https://open.spotify.com/track/0mbS3VwRbO6HVBMPXnzOGA     Song: ‘Woman In Love’, Barbra Streisand (1980) written by Barry and Robin Gibb  https://open.spotify.com/track/1pTGc8pwyo6xtgXBKCBcFn    Song: ‘Chain Reaction’, Diana Ross (1985)   https://open.spotify.com/track/1it9umP1j9qSqzKbSLLqqy     TV Special: ‘An Audience with Lulu’ (2002) - ITV  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0788014/     Lulu’s Mental Health Trust  https://www.lulusmentalhealthtrust.com/     Credits:  Producer: Millie Chu   Assistant Producer: Mark Maughan  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D’Oliveira   Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Scott Edwards   Shownotes compiled by Elly Young  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That's my vibrato. Why? I'll explain later. But for the moment, I'll just say hello and welcome back to the Louis Theroux podcast. For this episode, I sat down with Scottish singer, songwriter, actress and all-round leg-end, Lulu. In her more than six decades in the spotlight, Lulu has had numerous top ten hits, including a cover of the Isley Brothers song Shout, released when she was only 15 years old. Do not sing any of these, says Millie, copyright issues. Boom, bang a bang, with which he won the Eurovision Song Contest in 1969, alongside three other people, or bands. I'll explain that later. And the title song for the Bond film, The Man with the Golden Gun. She has a gravely textured R&B inflected voice, but she can also sing pop, which is one of the things we talk about.

She's uncategorizable in certain respects that may even. have held her back. She was so versatile, it was hard for her to pick a lane. Alongside the glittering music career, Lulu hosted her own TV shows and starred in a number of films, most notably to Sir with Love alongside Sidney Poitier. Maybe you've heard of him. Her song for the movie was a number one hit in the US in 1967, her song of the same name. To many Americans, she still is mainly identified with that track. There were also high-profile marriages, well, two. Let's not make it sound too outlandish. She wasn't Henry the 8th. And dalliances, we've all had a few of those, including a first marriage, that was a marriage, not a dalliance, or both. To B.G. Morris Gibb,

hair tycoon John Frieda, marriage, David Bowie, dalliance, and others. We touch on some, or all of those three, I think that's it, in the chat. For me, Lulu is a big guest, for me and many other people. As a child of the 70s, there were a number of of stars. Rod Stewart, David Essex, Gary Glitter, rat row. Who else? That's thrown me off. And Lulu, right? Kiki D. Elton John. They were people who wore spangly outfits and swanked around on stage. This was before a new wave. So for me to connect with my childhood self and have a chat about the heyday, I'm trying not to sing. Copyright issues. But if I'd I could sing I'd probably sing Tire yellow ribbon round the old oak tree, running away together by Brotherhood of Man.

This means nothing to Millie. We recorded this conversation in February this year at Spotify HQ. Lulu joined me to discuss her upcoming show at the Royal Albert Hall on the 1st of June. A quick warning, this conversation contains some strong language and adult themes, as well as, watch out, some singing from me. Which most definitely needs a warning Millie has written. I'm insulted. All that coming up after this. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete.

I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Oh, well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too much. late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales.

The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash louis, L-O-U-I-I-S. That's Shopify.com slash louis, L-O-U-I-S. Do you always get asked to go, Well, you should do it for me. Got that out of the way quick. See, that just shattered all my illusions.

You know what? It was because I said to friends at the weekend, I said, you never guess who I'm talking to next week. Lulu. And my Scottish friend just said, We'll. I mean, it is amazing, isn't it? Well, it's not amazing.

That's the wrong word, but it's a thing. You were 15 years old when you recorded Shout. Actually, I was 14. Were you? To be pedantic. So it came out in 64, correct? Yeah. By which time you were 15?

That's right. Because of being Scottish, they wouldn't let me leave school until I was 15. So there's no point in trying to promote it, I think. And I don't think the, yeah, I don't think even the Scottish. education authorities would have allowed me to do work. No, I think it was illegal. Yeah, it was illegal. Yeah, with child labour laws.

There you go. Let's just talk about that for a second. I know there's a lot to get into. You've heard more than 60 years in the spotlight. TV, movies, and of course singing, and a lot of heartbreak and a lot of success as well. Everything. Colorful life.

Colorful life. I've lived a life. That's a thing I love to say because I think I perpetually feel like I'm, just beginning, you know, I'm still waiting to be discovered, I think. Well, it's funny you say that. But we were talking about shout. How did you come to be 14 years old and recording Shout? It was written by the Isley Brothers, an American R&B group, but you came to it another way.

Yeah, I heard someone sing it when I was about 13, I think. And when he sang that song, I kind of recognized something in it, I suppose, and I thought it's mine. I have to do it. And of course, now I sort of feel it, I know it's a Nicely Brothers song, but I sort of feel it belongs to me in a way after all these years. And I'm very grateful to that song. It was, how quickly was it clear that it was a hit?

I don't know, a week or two. I'm not really sure. Very quickly. And the Beatles are on record at the time. Well, John and Paul said that they liked it. Is that right? I've gotten a few kind of comments about it, But basically, yeah, they were impressed with it.

It kind of thrust you into the pell-mell of the 60s. And you were so young, I mean, one of the things you say is that you didn't have a liberated bone in your body. Did I say that? Could I say some weird things? You don't recognize that? I'm trying to analyze it. I didn't have a liberated bone in my body.

Oh, God. I think it was in a sexual context. I think it was the sense that in the swinging 60s and you were a child. I was a child. 14 or 15 year a child. I have a 16-year-old granddaughter. And as mature as she is, she's still a baby. So I realize now that I was a child. But I had come from a family with, I was the eldest of four and pretty dysfunctional. I mean, tough. I came from a tough background. So I had to take on a lot of responsibility. And I felt I was pretty grown up. But of course, I wasn't. Well, can we reflect on the 60s for a second? Yeah, of course, good. You can touch on anything, I'm happy. So you're in the swim of 60s culture,

hanging out with the Beatles, Pete Townsend and the Who and the Rolling Stones, the whole lot of them. I know, I know. You were very close with Cynthia Lennon. Mm-hmm. I was. You know, she was just a very sweet, kind soul.

And I would feel slightly afraid, threatened. by the guys, you know, attracted to whatever teenage girl was attracted to, but at the same time, like, slightly terrified. And of course, I had such admiration for them because really before the Beatles, I really only liked American music. I found British music to be a bit beige, a bit flat, a bit clean, a bit too, yeah, sterile. Who were your favourites growing up? Ray Charles.

Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin. His voice was amazing. Yeah. Did you ever meet him? I did. Did you? I did. And I don't often have nothing to say, but I think I didn't have anything to say to him.

That's sort of like, is this for real? Am I actually standing talking to the guy that I played his records for hundreds of hours? He was just very generous. I think a lot of black people in America appreciated that movie to Sir with Love that I was in with Sydney Poitiers so much up to this day. I have people go, you know, oh, respect, respect, respect. And they'd call me Sister Lulu. And that was incredible to me because I think I mainly liked people. voices that sounded black, sounded gospely, really that was it.

They all came from the gospel. They all came from the church. They testified and they, you know, they could ring a song out and not tra-la-la-la lot, you know, which I felt British music was until the Beatles. And then the thing about the Beatles and the same were the stones. They were influenced by the same people I was influenced by. So that's probably what I recognize. but, you know, how can you explain the Beatles?

They were a phenomenon. That was an incredible time to be alive, you know? I bet. An incredible time. Did it feel at the time, you know, the 60s has become so iconic as an era of cultural ferment and excitement. And the Beatles obviously are the gold standard. But, you know, in the mix as well were the stones and the Who and the kinks and then the American groups. But I just wonder at the time whether it felt like you just, I mean, when you're young, it feels special.

You know, like I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and I remember the 90s felt like a bit of a retread of the 60s, like, which is good in some ways, cool Britannia, but you were conscious that, well, Oasis, as good as they are, are not the Beatles, you know, blur or not the kids. It was just a revolution in the 60s. Did it feel like that, or did it just feel like, we're just living our life? Do you know what I mean? I'll say that I was a deep thinker at 14 or 15, so I kind of just got on with it. Just having fun. Got on with it, you know. And you were working very hard.

I think. Yeah, and I love nothing more than working hard, even to this day. So can you imagine all my childhood singing, singing, singing, singing? I mean, my house was always full of music. My father was a great singer. My mother, not so great, but she could sing. Everybody we knew, everybody in Glasgow could sing. That was, I think that's a working class thing. So music was very cathartic, and that's how we, Laswegians, would relate to each other a lot. was through music and also lift ourselves up and out of the mundane.

It sounded intense when I was digging into your story like a lot of singing but quite a lot of fighting. Yeah, it was probably equal. Was it? So in a weird way... What's that all about?

Why was it so... You get this atmosphere of at any moment incipient violence. You've just got to be ready. Yeah, you got to be... What's that? Is that, are you turning it up a bit

or was it really like that back then? Why would it have been so... As I remember it, you know. There's a story about your dad, Eddie, and then someone had a pop at you or something happened. Your dad had to sort it out. Do you remember this? And then he goes with his friend

and they end up beating each other up by accident. I can't remember that shit, clearly. Because there was a lot of that kind of thing going on. That's funny. It sounds mad, but that was the way when you can't... The quote was, in Glasgow, you didn't turn the other cheek unless you wanted the other one sliced open as well. That's not my language.

That's a writer's language, you know. Snogging was called... Snogging was necking. Winching. Oh, God, yes, winching. Well, I haven't used that word for a very long time. And a pretty girl was... A smasher?

Stotter. A stotter. Oh, God. You'd grown up on the east side of Glasgow, is that right? Gallagate. Should we talk about that for a second? Yeah. Your mum and dad had a complicated relationship.

Your mum, you said, was needy. Your dad, Eddie, he worked in for the Glasgow Meat Corporation. He was basically butchering carcasses. But it sounds like he was devoted to her in some respects, very much in love with her, but also physically abusive, I guess you would say. She was also physical with him. He was an alcoholic. He was a heavy drinker, an alcoholic.

This is a quote from your mum, forgive my language. You're a fucking whoremaster. She accused him of having no sexual self-control. He was like a dog or a cat on heat. He didn't deserve to have a family. They hit each other, but my father was able to hit harder. He was drunk. He didn't know his own strength.

Even when cut and bleeding, my mother kept goading him. I'd like you not to read any more of that. Okay. It's very painful. I bet. And that comes from the first book or the second. First one. I can't believe that that came out.

I think that must have been from my brother. Billy. When I'm asked, I said, well, I don't remember, but maybe Billy will. And those words would never have come from me because I blanked them out. And they don't make my mother sound, you know, she sounds horrible. They both sound horrible and they were not, but they were damaged. You know, some people drink to get happy and then it goes, they become morose.

they become morose or they get angry or they get violent. So my father would change. And my father, everybody loved my father, everybody loved my mother, including me and my siblings. But when the drink went south, it was like Jekyll and Hyde. And that's really what happens a lot when you're an alcoholic. So I don't like to read that and I don't want to hear it because it's not exactly who they were, but there were moments of and that's why I blanked them out.

You're okay? Yeah, it's just when you have trauma, I don't know that I want to go back. I'm not the kind of person who always wants to go back and look over the past, but obviously for being in the position I'm interviewed, what makes you take, et cetera, et cetera, I've had to look at stuff from the past.

I'm a person who likes to forge forwards. Absolutely. And I think it's more common than we might like to believe. And there's a culture which I understand, it's understandable of therapy in which we unpack things and go deep and work through them. But there comes a time to think about other things as well. A hundred percent. And that's where I see how lucky I am. Because music kind of saved my life, I think. I used to be so ashamed of my past and my family's situation

and my mother would say anyway you know you don't wash a duttle linen in public that's one of the rules in this house so when people would maybe say to my mother whilst I was about her black eye or she heard noise or whatever the neighbour would try to talk to my mother about my mother would make up some ridiculous excuse

and I'd stand there mortified, knowing they heard every word, why are you denying it? But I was a kid. I couldn't understand. It was very confusing. But that stuck with me, you know? Keep things to yourself. Don't share everything. And you've kind of touched on it too.

Share it in an appropriate situation. In the book, I felt, you know, to share things today, because that's the way the world is today. And it can be helpful. I've done that. but what you've said is absolutely right I couldn't agree with it more let's look at it let's try to deal with it

but my God there's more to life that's not all of who I am you're slipping in and out of Scottish I do that I know I know at what point did you soften your accent what's your real accent my original accent was hello Louie how are you doing

how'd you spell your name how'd you pronounce your name Louie is it fair Or is it Theru? That's good. Or is it Therux? It's teru. Oh, no.

That's, I'm doing, I mean, it's a joke. No, I got it. You've got two registers. Do you think you've got a different personality when you go back to your other register? It's funny. You become a bit more feisty. When I do. I feel like a fight's going to break now.

Because it's rough. The accent is gruff. And it's got that, you know, thing in the back of this road. Did your manage? The management say you need to soften your accent a bit? Your brug. There are two incidents about change. And I think at the very beginning, I had to make many, many changes.

First thing, because you brought it up, that your freedom's going to be a fight. I was 15. My manager, Marion, who, you know, I will always have tremendous gratitude for having her in my life because it could have gone completely tits up without her around. In what way? Do you mean financially? Well, because she was a woman who had children. Right.

She had integrity. Could have been taken advantage of John. She was, you know, she had my back. She had my back. But at the very beginning, doing a gig with the lovers, who were my band, we all came from Glasgow together. And after the gig, I come out of stage, and I give my guitarist a punch on the arm.

And I said to him, in the thick, frightening Scottish accent. What was that? Do you think that was good enough? You were just the whole time watching your feet. You know, I sort of got into a big tirade with him that he didn't give his best stage. And my manager was horrified

because obviously the accent's frightening anyway. And she took me aside and she said to me, you know, you can't do that anymore. You can't behave that like that. Because people are looking you. Didn't you notice all the people watching you, listening to you, they will think that is who you are. And basically, I do believe that when you go on stage,

I still have the same conversations, but they're more conversations than a whopping, if you like. So I was very, very careful not to be me, which would be naturally shouting at someone to say, that was rubbish. You know, I have to say, can I have a word with you offstage? And then when I was doing television a lot, and they wanted to put me on in my own series on the BBC,

see, Bill Cotton, Jr., who is head of Light Entertainment, said, we don't know what she's saying. She jumps from one accent to the other, or it's the accent's too thick, or whatever. There was a complaint. I had to soften the accent, so I just copied how Marion spoke. And when I saw myself do an interview with David Frost recently, I thought, oh, that poor real assy doesn't you know who she is? Really? Because I would talk like a sophisticated Holland Park housewife.

And I would be 15 or 16 years old. And then, of course, I had to change my name. So everything had to change. And I had to cope with it. Of course, with me, it was not easy. But yeah, I'm quite open to change. When you went back to, when you would go back to Glasgow, would you revert and speak? Yeah, as soon as I was on the phone with my, ma.

Ma, you'll never believe who I want with this afternoon. Really? Yeah. You took to performing. I mean, one of the things looking at your performances and all the stuff that's on YouTube, because I've gone quite deep into your catalogue, you wouldn't just sing. You weren't just a singer, you're a performer. Your self-presentation and your poise has always been really impressive.

And so it feels like it came naturally to you, that you sort of belonged up there in some way. You took to it. Maybe part of my personality. Maybe. Right. You went to a Punch and Judy show. Someone said, can anyone sing? You went up.

There was a moment in Blackpool. I feel like Amen Andrews. You are Amen Andrews right now. You were on... I've watched you. You are, Amy and Andrews right now. I know, I'm doing a bit of Amon Andrews. You were on stage.

You got to have a little bit of an audience. I thought this was funny. They come up and they said, they wanted to get to know you, a little bit of bantz before you sing your bit, right? And do you remember what they asked? They said, are you from Scotland? I do remember this.

No, I'm from Glasgow Which has got a big laugh The crowd must have loved that I think I was five or six Were you trying to be cute? God no You just didn't think about I was five or six years old

It's the kind of thing a child says Yeah, you know That's brilliant And it's I'm glad I remember that You know I mean I don't remember the You know

Talking about my parents And the fighting I don't remember a lot of the dialogue Because it was too painful But some things I do remember. I'm glad I remember that one because that is very childlike. So what happens is after shout comes out, it's a huge hit, you have some follow-up records, but there's this pull and this pull kind of runs through a lot of your story, I think,

between a kind of a light entertainment TV path because based on your performance and your personality, there's all sorts of offers coming through to host your own TV show, but then there's also this maybe more credible music path. And there's a lot of, there's a sort of sense of regret at times that I said, from you about maybe not pursuing music more exclusively? I think there is that part. Of course there's that part. And I've addressed it, I think.

I don't like to get stuck. And I think it was possibly running from my childhood, running from difficult things, but also running towards a tremendous blessing in my life to be able to sing. The other thing was I think I remember a couple of times people sing because when you go, well, people go, what is that? That's not singing.

No one said that wasn't singing. Believe me, people, you know, people can be, you know, we can be cruel. And will she never last, of course, with that, well, that voice will never last. And can she sing anything? Why, because it was too raw, it was too punishing. They thought her vocal cords will wear out. Yeah. Because that's probably quite punishing on your, on your cords.

Not if you know how to do it. Really. They say Olivia Newton-John wore out her vocal cords. Have you ever heard that? I think a lot of people have. Maria Callas, I think, might have worn her. Well, with her, oh my God, you're talking about one of my obsessions. Well, I'm not so obsessed about her anymore, but I was when I was very young.

With Maria Callas? Yeah. When she heard her voice, her voice, let me tell you what happened to her voice. Go on. Because when Ariana Stassinopoulos wrote her biography, oh, I don't know how many years ago, I read it. I just loved, I listened to her and I was impressed. I got it, I got it. But her voice, her vibrato, became very wide, very early.

Is that good or not? The opera, it is the worst sin. I think she was booed in Milan. By having a vibrato that's too wide. So she had that issue. That was her issue. I know. Imagine, sin of sins.

Insignificant. I wish that was what I was being accused of. I love Louis' voice, but his vibrato is a little on the wide side. But with me, people would say. So that was another question. I didn't quite finish the answer to. I think my drive to be around, to stay around, because when people would say that, she'll never last.

And her voice will never last. So I was very happy to be asked to sing, getting to know you, and even sing. You know, like sing in a different way. Show them that I could sing. It's of trouble as my memory is not that great for a little bit. You just chose that one at random. Yeah, because it's terribly English.

Oh, and it is Julie Andrews. And it's a musical and people consider that to be real singing. Climbled. I'm better in falsetto. Yes, very good, actually. It's stronger. Just a little bit more tuneful. Thank you for that.

But, you know, I was trying to, so from shout to singing on a Saturday night. live television, BBC 1, any kind of music that you wanted me to do, anything that was entertaining, I was proving a point. Plus, if they come to you with a contract with a guaranteed paycheck for a year or two, that's also appealing, I would have thought. I don't think they'd pay you for a year or two. They just paid you for the series in those days. Well, but a series wouldn't that run?

But they would give you a two or three years. Yeah, they would give you a two or three year. Yeah, contract. It's true, it's true. Yeah. Those shows ran for years and years, didn't they? You were doing various iterations of the Lulu Variety Hour or Lulu Live. Yeah, the same whole thing.

They're still doing some things the same. Where are those shows now, though? There's some legendary performances. There's one where you had Jimmy Hendricks on. Yeah, and there's also one with Aretha that they don't have either, Ritha Franklin and Stevie Wonder and all sorts of people. The Jimmy Hendrix one is on YouTube. That was stolen.

I'm so grateful that some engineer or some editor took it. for himself and it started to just do the, you know, go all over the world. But I think the BBC would delete them. They deleted. I mean, I remember Dudley Moore, who people probably don't know who that is either, but Dudley Moore, Pete and Dud. Yeah, comedian, actor, pianist. He was a really good friend of mine, Dudley.

And a lot of their stuff was deleted, and so a lot of my stuff was wiped too. So they're not all available. There's just some of them are available. But doing that, Marion would explain to me, and of course I may not be formally educated, but I'm not stupid when she says to me, you will have a career if you do this. She explained to me that this would give me a long-lasting career. And she wasn't wrong, let's face it. But in the middle of it, I got bored of it because it was the same old, same old. and my heart and soul is in rock and roll, soulful music.

It's music. So I look back as, oh, God, I maybe have done that too long. Because also television, you know, television can eat you up. It can eat your soul. And then, you know, you become the ubiquitous chip, which I did on everything, everything. And then it's time to back off. Back off. When was that?

Now you're asking, I'm bad. You diluted yourself. I guess there is that risk. I think over the years you do dilute yourself. You do. You give your all. You give your all. And there's nothing different coming to you.

And maybe you haven't thought of doing something different. I think what I should have done maybe in the middle of my career, because it's been 60-something years. So after the first 20 years, I maybe should have taken, or maybe even before, taken a year or two off, done nothing. And I should have done it when I had my son. That's a regret. I don't hang on.

to regrets. Jordan. What year was that? He was born in 77. And if I'd have taken, I would feel much better. I feel I've always been making amends to my son. And we've done pretty well with that. Because you went back to a work.

Because I was a working mother. I was a working mother and I'm an obsessive, compulsive person. I am a workaholic. I have all these, I have good tendencies but also I have negative tendencies that have had to been looked at. And I've tried to work on them and sort of, you know, sort of make them less extreme. You think you're OCD for real or just sort of...

I've not been diagnosed, but I can tell. Go on. I can tell. Give me an example. Well, if I come into a room and there's pictures all over it and they're all skew with, I will straighten them. I can be, you know, really bossy and controlling if I want something done in a certain way. And life challenges you.

So I've learned from my mistakes, you know, from the difficulties and from the hardship. You know, like everybody, we learn as we get older. Even we talked a little bit about alcohol. I know you've been open recently about struggles you had. I know you've been sober since 2013, is that? I haven't had a drink since 2013. You say, though, that you were disciplined in your drinking.

Yeah, nobody ever knew. You said I was as disciplined about my addiction as I was about my work. You say, I turned up and delivered throughout the years when I was drinking. Well, that's the explanation. In other words, you were able to compartmentalize it. I was a high-functioning alcoholic for many years. So you were drinking between six in the... Were you able to kind of...

I was drinking when I wasn't working. But you were working all the time... I've got home and drink. And then you get home and drinking. And then weekends, would you start earlier if you weren't... Weekends don't... In show business, that's meaningless. Okay, yeah.

In the music business, you work, yeah. Would you ever drink in the morning? No. I never did that. That's how disciplined I was. So you'd start maybe at lunch or in the afternoon if you weren't working. Most of the time it was evening. Do you mind talking about this?

Not at all. What was your drink of choice? At the end, I think I liked white wine. Champagne I liked. But yeah, white wine was kind of a regular thing. And would you, I'm trying to get a picture of it because actually it may be, you know, it's not like there's an exact definition of what constitutes abuse, right? Like how much is too much?

When do you know that you've got a problem, right? All said. So you would keep drinking and then what would happen? You just keep going or at a certain point you'd turn in? I think the point was that in view, I wouldn't be a drinker. So I would sort of get home and I'd open a bottle and I'd start. I mean, that could go on. I don't.

And finish your bottle? I could. Oh, yes, I could finish a bottle. Two? I probably could. But, you know, I never would count because after a bottle, I don't think. you remember. You know, I had such shame about being an alcoholic because I watched my father and I, you know, I noticed that that was his demise, you know, the drinking.

In what way? Well, because he would fight with my mother and he would say things and she would say things and they would, it would, it was disturbing. But the other side of my father was a loving, funny, great singer, you know, a man with a big heart. So I did not want to be like, I never want to be like my father. What happened? I turned into my father's daughter. You know, I was a drinker.

So I would do it secretly because I had so much shame. But I don't... That shame burns you, burns you deep. It's a horrible thing to walk around, carrying secret secrets. It doesn't sound like it affected your personal. relationships though in the way that... I think it must have affected everything. Of course. My sister at one point said to me,

she thought, I thought I'd lost you. I knew there was a problem. I didn't know what it was. And then she found out. We mentioned Jimmy Hendrix. That performance is amazing. It's quite an eye-opener. I watched it just before we, this conversation, to see how almost avant-garde and free-spirited he was. And that whole band, Mitch Mitchell on the drums, is it? bashing them to bits and he's doing Hey Joe and then they go into a cream track

it's completely wild and carnivalesque there's a picture of you and maybe in one of your books or somewhere online of you hanging out with Jimmy Hendricks did you get to know him quite well I wasn't his best friend but you know what my feeling is that Jimmy wasn't a complicated guy

because when you met him he was actually a southern gentleman and pleasant isn't, you know, relatable, easy. And I always got along with him. It was lovely. And he apologised after the thing on TV, which... Because they overran.

Is that what happened? It was live, and it? Well, they went, what happened at the BBC, darling? So they decided to ban him. They thought we'd teach him a lesson, made him more popular. For what? For what reason? Doing what he did for being a naughty boy.

And playing the wrong song. Yeah, and sort of going over his time, you know? And he said, Lou, I'm, you know, I don't hope this didn't affect you, you know, because they had got a big backlash from it. He and the band, Jimmy, and the experience. They banned them. The BBC, they wouldn't play him on the radio. They wouldn't put them on any television shows.

But I think it made him more popular than ever. And it's probably the most watched piece of any show I've ever done. I mean, all over the world, people come to me and say, Lulu, we saw you. It's so sweet. So God bless him. Zooming out for a second, musically, there's this sort of sense of, are you pop, are you rock, are you R&B, right? I think that's been an issue actually.

And you've, you haven't always known. Exactly. And you see, there's a bit where you're talking about Nina Simone and Jimmy Hendrix. You say they were unapologetically authentic. Themselves. They were pushing boundaries. And not trying to please anybody. I'm a bit of a people pleaser.

I felt more and more hemmed in. too scared to go against the force of the people above me. The trouble is, though, it's impossible to be authentic when you don't truly know who you are yet. I would still go by that. And I think it's from being a child and having to change who you are, the name, the style of singing, the way I spoke. and my personality

holding back and not just being raw and fear. I have fear. You know what it is? I feel emotion coming up when I'm about to say that I want to be loved. I don't want people to dislike me.

I want people to love me. So I became a people pleaser very early on in life and I wanted to stop the violence and the noise and all that stuff as a child. So I would do as much work iron my father's shirts, do housework for my mother, appease them in as many ways, look off to my siblings. When I went to work, I'm a pop singer all of a sudden. I've got success and I've got to gather more success because I had nothing to lose at the start, but once you become successful then you've got to start. strategizing, all of that stuff.

I was a business. So I had to run it like a business, and I had to behave in a certain way. So there was a part of myself that sort of got pushed down, and I became more polished doing Saturday night television. But when I sing, I'm not so much polished, although I should be at this point in the game. And actually, I tell you another thing. I never spoke when I sang when I was younger.

Now I have dialogue, because I have a story. You're talking to the audience? I have a story. I've had a life. And I know that the people in the audience, I have stuff that I can relate to with them. And a lot of it is through the music. So it's kind of magical in a way. And that's another reason why I have to get up on stage.

My aim, my modus operandi, is for everyone to walk out and say, I didn't think it was going to be that, because that was great. Was that great? I feel better now. And you've taken your shoes off at the door. And you've pulled your trousers up and you're sitting with your legs crossed. You're having a good night. That's my job.

And that I think I can do. So I hope to continue doing that until I drop. Because I get from it, the audience get from it. It's a win-win situation. Shall we touch on David Bowie? Not. Your version of The Man Who Sold the World is the one that actually brought that song to fame. I hadn't realized.

People know his version as well. Of course they do. If they're big Bowie. Yours was a hit first, right? Yeah, I don't think, I don't know if he put his out as a single. We should say that you had a relationship. That's not, I think that's out. I had a brief relationship with David.

I had a fling with him. I had a fling, exactly. You talk about his thighs. Well, that you don't have to have. You don't. His thighs. Come on, people. Glad you clarified that.

I think you don't have to have had an intimate relationship with David Bowie to know he had the best. to know he had the best thighs. He and Naomi Campbell. Well, we could see his thighs because... He was always in tights, wasn't he? Oh, no, he wasn't in tights. He never wore tight. Well, he did occasionally, but he would often come on

like he had a swimsuit on and you go, Jesus, look at that. What was so special about them? They're very strong thighs. Was he a stotter or you have to be a... He was a stoater. He was a stauter. Did you winch him? I winch him.

He did more than winch him, I think. You were drunk, one thing led to another. The great part is it was after you... I can't say, you know, when you say drunk, I mean, sometimes you think of something falling all over the place, right? I would like to clarify my inebriation. I had been drinking, but constantly elated with the conversation we were having, which went on for the whole bloody night.

About what? Talked about, oh, we talked about everything. At Buddhism, we talked about music, people, we like songs, We like singers, music instruments, who's the best guitar, all that. The things that we were interested in, and we were actually very much on the same page about a lot of things. The famous thing that, yeah, he said to me that night was, I'm going to make a fucking hit record with you. He said, first of all, though, we prefaced that with, the record companies don't know what to do with you. They don't know what to do.

They don't get you. They don't get your voice either. I'm going to make a fucking hit record with you. He thought I was caught stuff, you know, and I was absolutely blown away by that because my brother and I were mad about the album Honky Dory. This would be what year? It must 70 something.

It must have been 75 because you would have not been in a relationship. No, my relationship with Morris had over. Your marriage with Morris Gibb had broken up. So you were free. It's all perfectly respectable. You were a free woman. I was seeing John Fida though. Oh, were you?

I was, yeah. What, you were in a relationship with John? Yeah, I was. Does John know that? Does John know that? No, what? That you had a fling with David Bowie. Well, if he didn't, he knows now.

No, he knew. Did you have a hall pass for Bowie? No, no, he knew, and it was, it was an issue. Was it, it was quite painful? It was at the after, Hotel Lobby and Sheffield, I've written now. Yeah. The best concert you'd ever seen. I couldn't believe how good.

There was a party afterwards. He invited me the show then afterwards. He said, come to the party. Everyone was upstairs. The piano was there. It was a real party. The kind of party that I was used to as a child. Angie, his wife, knew, but she didn't seem to mind.

I don't even remember her being there. I'm sure she wasn't in the room. No, she wasn't in the room. But the point with them was that they had a very open marriage. Yeah. Can I read something, what you wrote. Actually, it's perfectly innocent. Something what I wrote. Yeah, something what you wrote.

He had a reputation for being very sexually adventurous, and I'm sure that's true. But with me, he stayed within fairly normal territory. That's all I'm going to say. Don't ask me to explain. Don't be ridiculous. Can't you tell that I would never go into details like that? In fact, can I even remember? If you'd had sex with David Bow, you'd hope you'd remember. Or indeed with Lulu, I'm sure he remembered every moment on it.

All I remember about the thing was that it was. Like a lot of my life, to be honest with you, Louis. It was all a blur and pretty fantastic and surprising and if I just think of a person, a 14 or 15-year-old doing what I did, getting the successes that I had, meeting the people that I worked with, marrying a beeji, you know, it sounds fantastamogical. And, you know, the Sydney Poitier film and the boom-bang-a-bang, you know, let's not even go there. It's so hard to win. We can go there. We're going to finish Bowie for a... So basically, that became a number three hit.

Your version... That was after the boom-bang-a-bang. It was after... Boom-bang-a-bang. I'm going to... We're jumping around. I do jump around. I'm sorry.

Lulu in 1969 won the Eurovision Song Contest representing the UK with her song. with her song Boom Bang a Bang, not one of your best songs. Your vocal performance is non-paray, but... Oh, you're such a schmoozer. I think you yourself would admit it's not... It was a simple sort of nursery rhyme, and the chorus is, my heart goes boom-bang-a-bang. It's a perfectly constructed song, let me tell you.

But it's quite simplistic. Yes. It's not soulful. It's not gospel. It's not gospel. It's not rock and roll. It's pure pop. And it was directed at a lot of people who don't speak English.

Right. That would be Eurovision for you. I mean, I've analyzed this up the wazoo, believe me. Why, why, why? And it's quite obvious when you think about it. What have you analysed? Why did that one win? There were a lot of songs.

And in fact, there were four winners that year. There were four winners that year, joint winners. You see, it's a bit political, let's face it. And, you know. Are they allowed to have four winners? No, no, they've never had four winners since. That was really through them. What was going on?

What was political? Well, you know, we'd won quite a few times. And it was like, forget about it. You're not going to win again. The UK. Plus the pressure was on you because you were an established artist. And Eurovision was more catered to newcomers, right? So it must have been odd.

I don't know that it was. And not win. Uh-huh. It would have been suboptimal, right? I don't think it would have ruined my career, but you fear that it will. You fear it. But it's not like being an unknown where, you know, the only way is up. Let me tell you why did it?

Because the head of the BBC said to my manager, she's doing a series, now we want her to do the Eurovision Song Contest in it. She has to sing six songs, new songs, one every week for six weeks. The British public will choose the song. She will take it through to the finals in Madrid. Was it Madrid? So it's the song, but you are, you know, you're the one who carries it. You contain it, you deliver it, you perform it.

So you have to pull your weight. It's like a 50-50 thing, the song and the performance. And what it did for the television series, and he told us, your ratings will go up. They were doing well, but they went through the roof because the British public were fascinated. And they had to take part in it. And if it wins, it will, you know, make you more known throughout all of Europe, if you're not. So there was a lot of things that were, it was a good gamble. So there you are.

Your hands were tied. I was at the mercy of the BBC. But it didn't do me any harm. But as I said before, I probably did television night TV for too long. If I'm thinking I neglected my music. where I maybe didn't judge very well. But a lot of people said to me, too, you should have lived in America.

Why did you not go there when you were so huge over there? Well, simple. My manager had children. They were all at the Lise-Francée. She couldn't take them out. Her husband wasn't going to go there. I wasn't going to go without her. By my lonesome?

A teenager? No. Listen, we can take this out of you. I have to ask. So early 70s, you're on TV. I made two programs about Jimmy Saville. Did you ever hear rumors? Did you ever run into him?

Of course I'd run into him. He was everywhere. But I never had a, he never, no issue. He was weird. There was no doubt about it. I mean, I couldn't believe how he was so successful. I used to think, how is this man so successful? Did you?

He's ridiculous. He had a big personality. Listen, I would never have said that then. Why not? Oh my God. No, I had to, I was taught very early on. I had to think about what I was going to say before. I said it. And my mother

used to always tell me to be secretive. So I am very outspoken, but I have been trained to within an inch of my life to be careful. Because he was the big man on campus? Yeah, he was a big man, he's one-of. Yeah. But he was always around. He certainly had nothing to do with me. I was a child.

What was I going to do that would, if I said I didn't like him, they were going to, I never got, I was never confronted. You never went on Jim Will Fix It. I don't mean as a child. I mean as like a performer. But I, listen, Marian Massey was by my side always. I'm sure you understand why I'm so grateful to her and why I really, because I could have been a girl who was drawn in or dragged into,

although I've got a feeling that I had kind of, because of my childhood, as I mentioned to you, if you come from a dysfunctional childhood, you become very alert. Right, observant. Why? Because you're reading signals the whole time. you put it better than I did, yes. This episode is brought to you by Moneybox, the award-winning saving and investing app,

trusted by over one and a half million people. Do you remember your school days? I do. All the things you learned that turned out not to be that useful. I spent years learning Latin. I can still decline many verbs. Actually, you conjugate verbs. You decline nouns, puela, puolem.

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market leading based on moneyfax compare.co.uk. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Oh, well, we've all had big dreams, and it's never too late.

to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing, to product descriptions, to sales. The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S. That's shopify.com slash louis, L-O-U-I-S. Let's talk Bee Gees just for a second. Oh, please let's talk Beegis.

One of my favorite, favorite subjects. Really? I love them. That music is simply divine. You pop up in, there's a great, I recommend it, documentary made by Frank Marshall. You're there paying tribute to Morris, who is your husband. For people out there in Radio Land, it's maybe easier to say that everyone knows there were three Beegies plus Andy, the little brother. Barry was the one with a big hair and a beard.

Robin was the... Barry looked like a movie star. Yes. Of a very 70s sort of medallion man archetype. Even part before, yeah. Elflin he looked like. Robin, he had so long hair, long wavy hair. He was the younger brother and his twin was.

Morris. It sometimes said that Barry... He was losing his hair. He was losing his hair. Yeah. But he had beautiful face. Nice looking young man at the time. Beautiful face. And a big heart. Robin and Barry, the two main vocalists, did you know that Robin and Barry apparently, they would feud and sometimes would only communicate through Morris. Morus was like the calm center. Yes. He was the middle man. Always the middle man. And I think he felt undervalued a lot and not as talented as them either. so he would be a little more careful,

they wouldn't be as careful about what they said to each other. And they were brothers. I mean, do you have brothers? You do, yeah. Did you ever fight with them? Of course. That's part of the job. Exactly.

So that's what would happen with the Bee Gees a lot. But, you know, you take away all the stuff around the periphery. What are they known for? Where is their heart and soul in music and some of the best music we've ever heard that will live for ever. ever. The dance period, I mean, it would lift you up.

You would just couldn't sit still. Saturday Night Fever. All of that. You know what? God, Barry, don't hear this. He will be ashamed. No, I think he'd be proud. He'd laugh his head off.

To know that we were paying tribute. I mean, the music. But then, of course, before the dance fever, there was to love somebody. I get goosebumps. goosebumps, even just thinking about it and singing those words. That was my mother's favourite. They were born in the Isle of Man, in Douglas. Yeah, they were.

That's a random fact. I actually... But then grew up in Australia. But I call them Mancunians. I always think of them as being made, because their parents were from Manchester. They lived in Manchester for, I don't know, what the period was. And no matter where they went, they are those Mancunian boys, as take that are. Right.

There's the link who you had a number one hit with. That was an interesting. Yeah. Interesting parallel. You were married from 69 to 75 to Morris. Were you both drinking a lot? Is that what was going on? I would definitely join. You were very young. Yeah, we were very young. And Morris really... You were 21 when you married, presumably, 20 or 21?

So I was actually going out with him when I was 19. Really? And he would have been about the same age. He was a year and 18 months younger than you would think. The quote was, most evenings we were surrounded by so many people that Mo, that's what you called him. Yeah. And I was, and I was a year and, I was, 18 months younger than you think. And I was, I was, I think. And I was, and I was, I didn't have to relate to each other. It wasn't a marriage. It was party planning. That's not my writing.

Those are not my words, but whoever the writer was, it's terrible. Your ghost writer. Right, right. It's more common than you might think for me to talk to someone about their book and they're not know what you're talking about. I haven't read that. No, I read it. I read it. I read it.

I read it. You wrote it. That comes from the first. Yeah, that comes from the first one. Because the more recent one, I slightly remember more about that. But yes, I think that's quite a good explanation from someone about observing my marriage. I did fall in love with Morris. I did fall in love with him. We fell for each other.

But we were young. Barry said immediately we shouldn't get married. My brother, Billy, said, you're marrying him? But no kids involved, you know, that's not. Getting separated, divorced. No, that was painful. painful when you're someone like myself who I think painful for both

I don't think anyone gets away with it but painful I mean of course I can imagine it was painful yeah separation I find because you really wanted to make it work I did and I felt very responsible for him I've sort of felt like his mother in a way I wouldn't have said that then I'm very maternal

I was the oldest of four kids my parents were pretty dysfunctional I kind of took a lot of responsibility on. And I became very controlling because I felt my life was out of control. If I didn't take care of things, I think that's how I was

how I went on in life. So with Morris, I felt I should have known. I should have known. I sort of blamed myself. Should have known what? I should have known that we shouldn't have really got married. I should have been able to sound like you tried hard to make it work.

But we should have probably in the 60s. People lived with each other. Why didn't I live with, just live with him and, you know, not get married? But where I come from, if you want to have sex with somebody, you marry them. Really? Well, it's not just sex, but I had a sort of relationship, beginning relationship with him. We had a lot in common. We were uneducated. And you know, what, we were lonely. Why were you lonely? I think being on the road from a child, from 15, a teenager, it's a lonely life being on the road and you have to manage it.

I think one hopes a lot of the time. I'm thinking of other people too here. But talking about myself, I wanted some sort of stability. A woman always wants to have a home. So, you know, and he seemed like a good candidate in a moment of madness. And to be honest with you, we didn't really give it a lot of thought. No. It was all about feelings.

Was it weird then when Saturday Night Fever became one of the biggest albums of all time. And I had split from Morris. And you'd split from him. And then looking on, what did that feel like? I was blown away like everybody else with the music. First and foremost. Amazing music. Absolutely. But of course, I don't know what. I think I had mixed feelings

about it. I don't know. I don't know what. I was nothing but happy for them. It didn't preoccupy you particularly. It probably did. But remember exactly, I was thrilled for them and I love their music just like everybody else did. and still do.

Were Barry and Robin the main songwriters? Maybe you could say that, but I wouldn't like to split them up like that. I would say, except that Barry was, he had a man. First of all, he was the eldest, and he felt responsible for the other two. He was usually in the middle, wasn't he? His presence in the middle of those too little. It was like, you know, you get an engagement ring, the old-fashioned engagement ring, there's a stone in the middle and there's two little diamonds on each side.

that was kind of like how I look at it. Separate, they were talented, but together, it was something you can't even describe. You can't explain it away. It's difficult to. I remember walking into a studio. I talk about this on stage, actually, because I've allowed myself to do BG's songs.

Have you? Over the past, say, 10 years. I never did before. Do you do a woman in love? No. That's the one that they wrote for Barbara Streisand. I am a woman in love. Yeah.

I mean, such a great, I was just thinking about how many great songs they wrote for other people. So many. Chain reaction for Diana Ross. Oh, my God. And I mean, they were just, and I never really had the confidence

to ask them to do that with me. And yet I knew that they thought I was really talented. Do you mean after you'd split from Morris? No, while I was with him. Really? Why I couldn't do that? my brother-in-law's family, I just, I never could ask for myself. You feel like that was a missed opportunity?

Now I do. Oh yes. Are you kidding me? To have made an album with the VGES? Oh my God. Why wouldn't that be amazing today? Because you look at back, everything they've done, it was brilliant. And I love them, you know.

Amazing that I was very touching when you did an audience with Lulu would be early 2000s, I think, an ITV show, an incredible array of stars paying. tribute. You sing. People in the audience are celebrities. They ask questions. Sting is there singing with you. Ronan Keating sings. Elton John pops up and then Morris

comes out and I thought wow I found that rather lovely actually. You did. Yeah and I wondered whether that was a big deal and given that he was your ex-husband. It was. Not to mention not much more than a year later he died. Again

lucky because when my director suggested Morris I went, that's so cheesy I said because it was obvious to me that people, I was using Morris I felt to ask him, using him because I'd been married to him. People would be like, fascinated what's going to happen, what's going to happen, what's going happen. And if I'm 100% honest, Morris carried a candle for me for a long time. And I felt awkward about using that. Because if he would have divorced me and hated me, I would be saying, well, I can't ask him. He doesn't like me. Why would I ask him? I sort of knew in my heart that he would probably jump. And he did. But Morris was a very very. very sweet guy, though, you know, and I didn't want to use him, but I was using him. You know what? Now I'm

glad because it touched people's hearts. They saw a vulnerable side in him and I, in our relationship. It was also a chance for me to honor Morris by himself without his brothers. And now, I'm so glad I got to do that. I mean, even his wife Yvonne said to Linda, Yvonne Gibbs said to Linda Gibb, Barry's wife. It was a good thing. It was a good thing. It kind of closed the circle. You know, sometimes you don't, in ending a relationship, you don't say all that you wanted to say,

or you don't explain yourself, or there's confusion or there's misunderstandings. It seemed to close the circle. He was very pleased because he always felt the lesser of the three. And him being on the show by himself. with me gave him respect. It was respectful and also, I suppose, I don't, I can't speak for him. But that's how I saw it eventually. Because I eventually said, okay, okay, okay, I'll phone him.

Oh, I feel awkward about it. And I probably didn't. How was it when you called him? Oh, so easy. Hey, Morris, hey, you know. Had you spoken to him much? Off and on, yeah, often on. In a friendly way.

But not regularly. I mean, like the present husband I speak to every day. the present ex-husband I was going to say that didn't come up in your research and nobody knew you got married again but I called him he just said when do you want me

what time of course I'll be there just so generous you it's lovely that you mentioned you're on good terms with your more recent ex Jean Frieda hair stylist

and well hair care product magnate as well Yeah. I've only got your account to go by. There were things in that, the way that relationship ended that sounded really painful. The way, some of the things he said to you similarly. And when brought back up to him today, he goes, oh, I was such an idiot. Did he say that?

Yeah. But I do it too. Don't you do it? Like, you bring up something that I'm supposed to have said or that I did say. And I go, I can't believe I said that. And did you say it? I think I did. I think I did.

You know, we're not always our best selves. and that Morris, I think it's not even secret, it's openly acknowledged now that he had a fling with Barbara Windsor while he was with you. I think he's got a son he might have had. It might have happened when we were married. I just found out someone showed me something with a guy and I can't remember the year

he impregnated this girl after a one-night stand and he has a son who has had his jeans taken. It's proven he's 100% Morris. While he was with you? I didn't do the math because it wasn't that important. Why isn't it important? Today, say la vie. So what's your secret?

How do you keep a positive attitude on things that others might regard as betrayals or more painful? Oh, I've worked on that. Really? I've worked on it, yeah. Because I think I used to take myself way too seriously. I know you're surprised at that, but it's true. I think, yes. And it's painful when you take yourself too seriously.

or when you see the world black and white. Because it isn't. There are many gray areas. And I've learned through trial and tribulation. You know, I've had unbelievable highs, but I've also had a lot of lows, which most people have in their life, for God's sake. I'm no different to anybody else in that respect. So I've looked at it.

I've wanted to know why. I'm always curious. And I think that's probably helped me to survive. All the ups and the downs in my life. Of the work you've done, what are you most proud of? That I can still do it is maybe what I'm pleased about. Right. Longivity. That I can still do. No, because I love it.

You have a big date at the Albert Hall coming up, I saw? Yes, I have. So I started Lulu's Mental Health Trust when I wrote the book because it became very clear that myself, I shouldn't talk about my family, but I can generalize. we've all had issues. So I have a trust. The Albert Hall gig, which is the 1st of June,

myself with guests not announced yet, just to make it more enticing. Great guests, fabulous guests. All the money from the profits goes to the charity. And I think it's about time. I'm a bit late at the getting out the gate. And so I'm full steam ahead with that. That feels good.

Feels good. is a wide vibrato, a narrow vibrato. That was so narrow, it was barely there. So you don't just listen and enjoy these podcasts you learn. You learn about music, musicology, and personality psychology, sociology. I'm just saying words, biology. The Bee Ge's Doc I mentioned, I've already shouted this out in the chat. How can you mend a broken heart directed by Frank Marshall from 2020?

It's well worth a watch. I don't know where I saw it. It might have been on Apple. You can get everything on Amazon. See, I'm not playing favourites with the big platforms. Barry Gibb, if you're out there, and I know you are, consider this an invitation to come on the show. The Bee Gees are amazing.

But enough about the Beegis, what about Lulu? What a great guest. Her willingness to play ball and roll with my sometimes overly direct? Maybe not. Maybe like winningly candid conversational strategies was appreciated. Winching a starter. I know. Apologies for the Scottish accent. You're thinking that was Scotland? It was a specific region of Scotland where you've never been so you don't know. Different places have different phrases for snogging, which we, snogging being a English or maybe British. Do they say snogging in Ireland?

We've got comments on now, don't we? We switch on our comments. Let us know to our Irish fans. Do you say snogging or more likely would you say shifting? Are shifting and snogging the same thing and winching? In America they say making out. That's kind of boring. Did you make out?

Or they call it first base. Second base, third base. I'm not going to describe the other bases. Calm down. Getting to know. I'm not singing. That wasn't a sing. that wasn't getting to know.

You can't get me for fees on that. I wasn't singing. Can we get away with that? When Lulu started to sing a song Getting to Know You, and then I thought, I want to join in. My mind went to what else is from that musical, and then I thought I went to climb every mountain because I thought it was Sound of Music.

But of course it isn't. And you're thinking, no, it's Mary Poppins. It isn't. It's from The King and I. Three of the most famous musicals of all times, and they're all about governesses slash nannies. Is that weird? Is that weird?

That's me impersonating myself. Little bit. Why is that such a big thing? Some more information. Did I say that Olivia Newton-John burned out her vocal cords by singing too raucously and rawly? That turns out to be, whack-wak, not true. She never had problems with her vocal cords.

In fact, the internet tells me that She maintained the same exquisite dulcet tones right to the end of her life. Maria Callas, I said, had worn out her vocal cords. Bing! Correct. Rapid decline in vocal quality, beginning in the late 50s, due to possibly weight loss, extreme and rapid weight loss, overuse and demanding roles, medical conditions, motion and physical strain. Who has the most wide vibrato? Who's vibrato? Don't call it a vibrato. That sounds weird.

Apparently, someone called Eileen Farrelly. Then it goes on to say Pavarotti had a very nice vibrato. I'll stop doing that. Vibrato. And so did Freddie Mercury. But get this. I found this interesting. This is Louis just reading things from the internet. Apparently, Freddie Mercury's was so good, it may even. have been better than Pavarotti's.

Similar, if not more technical mastery from Mercury. So deal with that, Luciano. If you've got a particularly wide vibrato, please let us know in the comments and get in touch. You don't like that. Just a reminder that it would be great if you could follow the show on Spotify or wherever you listen, it helps people find it,

allegedly. That's it for this week. Oh, apart from the credits, The producer was Millie Chu. The researcher was Mark Maughan. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. The music in this series was by Miguel Di Olivera. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows. This is a Mindhouse Studios production for Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space as it happened. neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Oh well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales. The list goes on and on.

So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash louis, L-O-U-I-S. That's Shopify.com slash Louis, L-O-U-I-S.