The Luke and Pete Show - Episode 179: Dear sons and daughters of hungry bum ghosts

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

Pete and Luke are taking a break for one solitary week (and one normal-sized day) this summer, so the former has cobbled together a special look back at the first summer of the Luke and Pete show. Don't worry, there's a brand new email about drugs and vultures in the bag too, so don't make that face. Elsewhere there's Japanese yokai and Buzz Aldrin making a reappearance. To tell us how drugs have affected your vulture, email us: [e-mail]***Please take the time to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your pods. It means a great deal to the show and will make it easier for other potential listeners to find us. Thanks!*** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Right then. Oh, I just dropped the flap of my Isovox vocal booth on my back. Yes, my friends, I am the less than proud owner of an Isovox vocal booth. They didn't give me a freebie or pay for this so I can give it both barrels. Sounds a bit dead! I know, like, it's just a little box you put on your head and speak into it, but you know, it was a considerable amount of money. And I bought it

because the Instagram advert that advertised it to me featured the singer-songwriter Seal. And he knows what he's talking about! Anyway. Yes, this is the Luke and Pete show happy Monday everybody now we've we're having what could only be described as an enforced uh week and a day long break so that basically means three shows in which we're not actually going to be in a room

together so what we've done what I've done rather uh is cobble together some highlights from the first summer of the Luke and Pete show back when it was just called Luke and Pete's Summer, where we thought we'll do this for a summer and we've been doing it for two years now. So what are you going to do? What I will do is start every show with a little email you won't have heard on the show, one we haven't piled through. So there's a little bit of extra stuff if you are a listener from the very beginning and why on earth would you be still listening now? There is a little bit of extra content that If you are a listener from the very beginning, and why on earth would you be still listening now, there is a little bit of extra content that you won't have heard. So, quick email, and it comes from...

Who have we got here? I'm on my mobile phone because printer. More in Birmingham. More in Birmingham. Dear Luke and Pete, I've been a ramble listener since the early days. I basically spend all my time listening to all of our podcasts. Thank you very much more.

I thought about trying to claim the slot as show doctor, but all the really good stories have too much potential for ending up on the wrong side of the GMC. I presume that's the General Medical Council and not GM Motors' cheese subsidiary. All that changed with Monday's show, episode 171. As you mentioned, the tradition of sky burials. This is something I have something of a Macalbrew fascination with

since an early childhood run-in with the tradition of excarnation as a method of body disposal. You rightly mentioned that in some Tibetan, Nepalese and Chinese Buddhist traditions, bodies are left to carrion birds as a last act of generosity. It is, however, also practiced by the Zoroastrian faith in Iran and the Indian subcontinent too. Zoroastrians, also known as the Parsis, follow a faith drawn from the teachings of the Zoroastrian faith in Iran and the Indian subcontinent too. Zoroastrians, also known as the Parsis, follow a faith drawn from the teachings of the Zoroaster, the Zarathustra, an Iranian prophet from 2 millennia BC, in fact, that predates most, if not all, monotheistic traditions.

Being of Pakistani parents, I often visit Karachi with my family as a child, and this story probably harks back to the early 90s at some point. In an area called Kalapul, which is Black Bridge in translation, there was a guarded and secured off area where Parsis lived in a gated type community.

One of my mum's childhood friends lived here and we were invited round for dinner when they were reunited by chance. We were escorted in and only allowed through with invitation of our hosts only, because the enclave was a strictly Parsi-only area.

Before dinner, I played cricket out on the street with similarly young children, including the children of our hosts. I couldn't help but notice a cylindrical building, built fairly high up, with a swarm of large birds eagerly circling and diving around it. There's about eight or nine here. Make no mistake, there were huge numbers of birds circling it.

It was definitely the centre of avian attention for miles around. Save for these trips to visit roots and family, my fledgling eyes had not wandered far beyond Blackpool, so the only birds I really knew of were seagulls. I asked my Parsi peers about them, yet beyond telling me they were vultures and the structure was called the Dakma, I couldn't get much more from them. I had yet mastered the subtleties of non-verbal communication,

so I couldn't quite fathom why none of them were very forthcoming. So I did what any 79-year-old would do, and I brought it up in front of the grown-ups over dinner. My parents tried to placate me, but undeterred, I bullied on and on, or bulled on and on, rather, until the father of the host family answered with incredible grace, as I can now see with retrospect. I can't remember the exact words he used, but he explained that different people have different traditions

and that the vultures were their way of disposing of bodies without corrupting the sacred earth via burial or sacred fire via cremation. That's interesting, isn't it? Who wants to go out, like, damaging the earth? What a wonderful, you know, what a wonderful concept. Fantastic. At the Dakma, our Tower of Silence was specifically set up for this task. Bodies were arranged into concentric rings with men on the outside, followed by women and then children closest to the centre.

After they are picked to the bones, the skeletons are swept into a pick, pick, pit, pit at the centre where they are dissolved with the assistance of lime. Needless to say, the whole drive home, I was told to listen when told to shut up and chastised for nearly ruining a lovely evening with ungracious questions about the macabre. I vividly recall seeing two flying vultures squabbling in the red sky as the sun set, my imagination running through what tasty morsel they were arguing over. It became one of those things I thought about now and then, usually at family gatherings where my mum would exaggerate how much of a precautious little shit I was. Now I'm 31,

I recently visited Karachi for the first time in several years to attend a family wedding. And during the course of one of the events, I started chatting to a couple of similar age. When it happened to come up that they were Parsi, my brain made the immediate connection to one fact about their religion

that had indelibly etched upon my psyche. I blurted out something like, oh, you guys leave dead bodies on the big towers for vultures before instantly wanting to be ex-carnate in myself. Luckily, they did not take offence and laughed it off, assuring me that this tradition was often the starting point for questions and dialogue about their faith. However, they did make me aware that its future is currently hanging in the balance, and this is why. The culture population of the Indian subcontinent has markedly dropped in the last 30 years or so from 8 million. Sorry, from 80 million in the 1980s to less than 10,000 today. The reason for this is diclofenac, diclofenac, a common anti-inflammatory drug it was introduced in the early 90s and widely used

in livestock india and pakistan perhaps not being best known for stringent regulatory oversight eating sequestered amounts of diclofenac or its metabolites in the lovers of dead animals i think that must mean bodies maybe i thought maybe bodies maybe it is lovers of dead animals either way you're gonna get ill uh It's unfortunately fatal to most birds, and the vulture population dropped alarmingly quickly. It's killing all the birds! The link to diclofenac was not made until 2003, and it wasn't long after this that India, Pakistan, Iran, Nepal, Tibet, etc. banned it, and an alternative drug, meloxicam, was developed to take its place.

However, the damage was done. Predictions estimate a 90% population drop for vultures if diclofenac was present in 1%, just 1% of all dead livestock, and it was found in up to 10%. That is insane. Loving that. That's fascinating.

What an amazing way to get rid of, and a beautiful way to get rid of your bodies, and also, yeah, we fucked it we fucked it with dick lafenak fuck you dick lafenak anyway um uh yeah more says keep the good work across the podcast podcast spectrum and i hope you found my expansion on carrion related funerals interesting at the least as a hospital doctor i see a lot more of the interface between life and death than most and it's certainly more an organic and real site of traditions like this and the Viking burials you spoke of than the dehumanized and somewhat bureaucratic process of coal metal gurneys a couple of weeks in the fridge while the funeral directors find a slot in the crematorium. Twelve page declarations filled out in block capitals that complicates the grieving process here.

We should definitely open the conversation around death more, but again, it's not a good, uh, did a terrible topic yet. It's also interesting that even in death, we continue to fuck over the natural world, world on a continuous basis. Uh, by the way, I reckon Pete would totally go for the Lennon style mausoleum if he could get away with it. To be honest, more in Birmingham, uh, if I was held in state, uh, covered in some kind of lacquer, people would just spend their time remarking that I looked way better dead than I did alive. More, that was a fantastic email. Thank you for your time, everyone, who's listened to me reading it out at 9 o'clock in the morning, where I'm very sleepy, and, you know, it's not the best time to read anything out,

but I hope I got through it, and thank you, More, and thank you. Let's get on with the show. This is from one of the earlier episodes of the lucan peach show and it turns out that most of this summer i had a cold so apologies for that roll the clip gentlemen this is democracy manifest you know i like properly bummed japan i'm back and forth like you wouldn't believe. Well, last time I came back, I brought a book. I bought a book, rather, about Japanese ghosts. Okay, fascinating.

And, like, the Japanese idiosyncrasies, the craziness didn't just start this century. It's been going on for centuries. It's crazy. It's insane. The Japanese love ghosts. They're obviously a spooky nation. They're obsessed with death. Are there any main differences

In what you would call Maybe a Japanese type ghost In the sort of ghost traditions We have in the west I think they're a little bit More creative Okay They're certainly a little bit

More cartoony And a lot of Japanese Kind of manga And anime And stuff like that Are kind of based On these kind of stories Right

So it's all very historical And it's all very There's a great tradition to storytelling in Japanese culture, as there is obviously in ours as well. But I think it's probably got something to do with the fact that there's a lot of, like, Shintoism in their lives and heaven is actually quite a glum and, like, horrible place to be in Shintoism.

It's like Hades. So what's the point of that? Well, what do you mean? What's the point of that well what do you mean what's the point so why would you aspire to go there i mean well because heaven heaven obviously is a place you aspire to go to so because and therefore it has to be good there's just a lot of grieving yeah i don't think you know i don't think there is an aspirational thing i think it's just kind of like when you die you spend the afterlife protecting the people who are who you know on on earth so oh okay i didn't know that. It's not right.

So Japanese ghosts, then? Yeah, Japanese ghosts. There's just a lot of really creative ghosts. And they each... Are they sort of like Indian-type gods? Like there's many of them? There's billions of them. There's absolutely billions of them.

They're like Pokemon. That's probably what it's based on, to be honest. But they spend their time just doing naughty things or little jobs and stuff like that. But I've sort of isolated two that are really, really fascinating. Okay. The Tenjo Name, right? It combines Tenjo, ceiling, and Name, lick, right?

Yeah. I mean, this is exactly as I'd expect it to go. What do you mean? Probably prejudiced, but my idea of Japan is just that I've never been, I've never visited, I know you've been a number of times, I've never been. It's crazy, lots goes on, it doesn't necessarily have any logical explanation to westerners. And that to me,

you've got a Japanese ghost stories book there, the first one you've brought to the table is one that translates literally to ceiling liquor. Yeah. That's exactly what this man does. So basically, it licks ceilings. It comes out of the darkness on cold winter nights and just licks away any accumulated frost or dirt on the ceiling. It's very specific, isn't it?

It is very specific. And they're very specialised. They only have sort of one... Yeah, they've all got little jobs. Okay. It's very strange. So it's almost like a patron saint type vibe, isn't it? What?

The patron saint of licking ceilings? Well, there probably is one. There's a patron saint of everything else. There a patron saint type vibe, isn't it? What, the patron saint of licking ceilings? Well, there probably is one. There's a patron saint of everything else. There's patron saints for everything, isn't there? When you get a bit of steam in your room, maybe you're having a hot bath or whatever, and there's steam on the ceiling, it's the saliva of the ceiling licker.

And it's a very nice-looking book. It's essentially a compendium of listing all of the books, all of the ghosts, sorry, that are knocking about. And some beautiful 16th century drawings of said... I mean, it's essentially just a compendium of listing all of the books, all of the ghosts, sorry, that are knocking about. And some beautiful kind of, like, 16th century drawings of said ghosts as well. I definitely recommend it. And, yeah, it just licks away at the ceiling. If you catch sight of the Tengen army, though,

while it's licking away at your ceiling, you die. Right. See, that's another thing I associate with this type of stuff. It's like, I mean, obviously, admittedly, and I will totally sort of admit to this, it's all based on the film I've seen called The Ring. Right, yeah, well so you know. You watch it, then you die. Well they, uh. Is that the same with All the Ghosts or just this particular one? I think it's just Japanese literature seems to be filled with, there's a certain word that's not available in any other language it's literally uh testing out your sword by killing a merchant right and that's it it's

just a word that isn't used for any other part of of life just the act of killing a merchant on a lonely um dark path during the dead of night with a sword i feel like other nations other languages could learn a lot well well yes but also other nations other languages do a much better line in these really specific meanings of words than english like obviously a classic example be schadenfreude with german the you know taking joy from someone else's misfortune is not as specific as you've mentioned now but we don't really have that we don't we're not really as adept at that in english i think the foreigners, they sort of sit back and take things in, don't they? We're so mouthy and so kind of like, we're like, oh, we know what's going on, this and that.

This is our language. But the other people go, well, let's find a word for that. But we just think we're too good for that, I think. Yeah, no, absolutely. The whole point of the ceiling liquor is that if you're tucked away at bed at night and you hear something crawling along the ceiling, just keep your eyes shut tight because the ceiling licker may get you. Turn his tongue on you. I actually googled the ceiling licker, the, what's his name, Tengenami,

and the first comment on an article basically detailing the Tengenami, and I have a lot of pictures, it said, Interesting article. Do any of the legends say exactly how the Tengenami is able to reach the ceiling? That's the first question, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Did he climb up there? I'm on board with a post-death apparition

that's only reason for being about is licking the ceiling. Let's talk logistics. Let's talk logistics. Has he got a little cherry picker? A little gorsy cherry picker? In the middle of the night, have you heard a... I mean, he could technically, since he's a gorse, just stick his head, his or her, I guess, just stick his head through the roof.

Yeah. He could stand on the roof or float on the roof, stick his head through, move his neck, you know, 180 degrees and lick away, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Second. This is taking a turn already. I thought it would take a turn, But it's taking a turn so quickly

Get ready for this one I am ready You have a magical ball in your butt And the kappa want it Right Right Basically There's two versions of this

This little ghosty monster This demon What's it called? The kappa Okay Alright In modern stories It's actually quite cute

And quite harmless You'll see it in cartoons quite a lot. But during the Edo period, there were monsters who had a particularly vicious method of killing their victims. It's said that human beings have something in their body called the shirakodama, which translates as small anus ball. Okay. The ball is nestled either immediately inside the anus

or deeper inside the intestines. Either way, the kappa wants it. have a preferred method of extraction. Right.

They basically... This kappa is spitting bricks for this thing to pull up your bum. Oh, it really wants it. So the kappa consider the shirakodama to be a delicious delicacy

and they eat it as soon as it's removed. And, I mean, there's various kind of depictions of this shurikodama, but, yeah, I mean, there's one that kind of extracts the shurikodama and holds it far away from his face and clearly is disgusted by the item. Why he's pulled it out in the first place.

If he knew it was going to be like that, I mean... He's like a man who's bought a load of pickled eggs and went, oh, yeah, pickled eggs, this is disgusting. You feel like you want to say to the capper, is this your first one? See that chap over there? Get your hand off my penis! Figs. Figs, you're starting with figs, are you? Do you like figs, Luke?

I don't mind them, yeah. I can't think of a fruit I don't particularly like. Do you want a terrible Christian song about figs? Yeah. There was a fig tree in bethany whose branches were all there when the master looked for figs to eat there weren't any there and they say the devil has the best songs i'll say it now don't mind it first time i've heard that was a fig tree in bethany i've never heard that song before i haven't either but what i would say sounds non-denominational it does it's one of those ones

where you wouldn't necessarily instantly know it's a it's a christian song yeah until it mentions jesus you've got to use your gift slips it in there you got you got your singing along slips it in there yeah but um i want a cath Catholic school I understand the reference I went to Church of England Ooh Oh that's a fight It's a fight Um The um The thing about that is I say this regularly

Don't be scared of a pop melody Right There's too many artists out there Recording artists out there Who try and go a bit weird Yeah Because they're scared of the melody You hear me Tom York

It was a fig tree Exactly If you can write the melody Then write the melody And if you can't Stop obfuscating Figs Get figs in there get figs in there they are nice they're pleasant nice and soft what i like about figs is they're effectively

um they're a big ball of flowers right the actual texture inside are just a lot of the fig tree flowers do you mind if i if i just chip in here and say that for those out there who've listened to our oover over the years, they are wondering, as I am, that this might be related to your constipation problems over the years. No, what I would point out is there's more food, isn't it? Oh, yeah. It's like a food special. It is.

I'm going to name it that. Episode three, food special. Because figs apparently are very good at relieving constipation. They're nature's way of doing that, aren't they? No, I mean, they don't work. Oh, okay. You know, I need, I need hardcore drugs. Okay. To get me moving. Don't we all? Yeah. Um, right, yeah, figs.

I've been reading about figs this week. It's basically a flat, a series of flowers inside a case, is it? Yeah, like they're kind of filaments, they're kind of just flower heads. Okay. And, um, turns out, if you, like, ate a fig off a tree in the wild yeah you'd probably be eating a lot of wasps what what i know um because we're told all the time that wasps have no they don't pollinate they don't do anything interesting they're just dickheads there's a really good new scientist uh but given away oh they're giving away free with a particular new scientist issue or it was one of those ones you can buy at christmas from the from the publishers of new scientists called does anything eat wasps right it's very

interesting about the role that wasps play it's so interesting i can't remember anything about it but i do remember that they must have some kind of role well in this case they pollinate uh figs but it's fascinating um the fig wasps are very specific kinds of wasps. They're kind of all black. They don't look like our normal commoner garden wasps. They're not very colourful. You know, like, at the bottom of a fig, it's got, like, a little hole, like a little round hole. So that's how the wasps get in.

And they only let in the exact sort of wasp it needs to pollinate. A very specific wasp. And it's such a tight squeeze that wasps invariably lose their antenna antenna antenna antenna yeah and their wings as well when they go in so they can't come out so that well it's fundamentally they can't go out of it it's such a tight squeeze um and what they do they're all female female fig wasps they plant their eggs inside the flowers up to 100 at a time um and while they do that she's also got a bit of pollen on her I'll get into this why she's got a lot of pollen in a bit but she's carrying some pollen

and it pollinates some of the flowers fertilising them and then the wasps just die inside the figs the wasps though the little baby wasps they grow up inside the flowers the males grow up first a few days first they find the pods of their sisters and impregnate

them before they've hatched huh that's horrible isn't it i mean where are you getting this from what figs man this is some comic book so they impregnate their own sisters while they're still in their kind of birthing no i got that bit and i think i want to say it again to really i don't i don't want to hear it again what and so then what to what end? I mean, at what point did the other... I don't know what end it goes in. No, but where do the wasps go? Right, so...

So then, the male wasps, they bore escape holes through the walls of the fig for their sisters to escape, and then they die in the figs. The sisters escape, picking up pollen as they go, and then they go and pollinate other figs, and the cycle begins again. Do you know roughly what percentage of figs this replies to?

Well, a very certain amount of figs. This is blowing my mind to bits. So if a fig grower who was maybe providing to a supermarket or whatever, do they know about this, and so therefore they won't put those figs into the delivery? So, yeah, they do them on separate trees, so there's a male tree and a female tree. Right. And I think they can only pollinate female trees. But what I would say is the wasps don't know any different.

No. It's not the wasp's fault, is it? No, it's not. Don't blame the wasps. No. different no it's not a wasp though is it no it's not don't blame the wasps no but what i like about it is like the the holes that the the the male uh young uh wasps have made they get out of the get out of the the the fig like that with the little holes which is fascinating yeah i i know i knew it knew nothing about this and so um the how the seeds obviously get into the ground is just normal you know birds and yeah of course eating it and pooing it out and stuff. But, I mean, the wild fig is just basically like a big wasp body bomb. Yeah, we talked about bat bombs a couple of weeks ago.

Ugh, how can anything worse? Yeah, I mean, where do figs grow? What countries? I don't know. Yeah, not Britain. I'm going to say Peru for a laugh. Nicaragua. Okay.

That's a guess, isn't it? Yeah, it's a guess. That is... I's a guess isn't it yeah um that is that is i mean i don't really know how to take that that's quite disturbing but what i would say yeah but most um things that we eat they are um grown under like farms stuff like that so we don't have all the problems notice he said most most exactly they grow they grow under farms you don't know oh mcdonald. You're obviously an expert. It's disgusting, though, isn't it? Yeah, awful.

Really awful. But a big fig, and you crunch down, and it's like, oh. God. You wouldn't know, because figs are quite, they're soft on the outside. They've got a soft kind of membrane, but inside they're quite crunchy. Yeah, and... Wasp bodies. Speaking of wasp bodies, it genuinely happened to me about six or so, no, probably longer than that, maybe just over a year ago.

I was in the bathroom of my flat trying to change, I've got little spotlights in the roof, and you take this bit of metal sort of wire, which keeps the light in place, and you pop it out and the light comes down on a cord, obviously, on the cable, and you pull it out and replace it. And one of them, I did it, pulled it down on a little stepladder,

literally dusted by about 20 wasp carcasses. They're dead, but they just landed. There was this beautiful video, and it was beautiful, of a bloke who literally dusted by about 20 wasp corpses. They're dead, but they just land and move. There was this beautiful video, and it was beautiful, of a bloke who turned up, rocked up at somebody's house. They were having problems. They just saw a load of bees outside. And they were like, oh, there's clearly a wasp.

A bee's nest somewhere. Not the bees! Not the bees! The bees! And basically this guy came around with a heat sensor, like a heat sensing camera basically. And he found out where the hottest part of the cavity wall was, the cavity ceiling was. And he basically had to cut into the ceiling.

And he cuts it out in a perfect square. And he sort of pulls down the ceiling. It's just a flat ceiling in somebody's front room. I think it was a bungalow. And he pulls it out. And it's like he's ceiling in somebody's front room I think it was a bungalow and he pulls it out and it's like he's pulling out the bottom of a a bee hive and all this honey

starts dripping down because they've got this massive infestation they've just made this kind of their own because you rarely see it's called an apiary isn't it

yeah you rarely see one that's actually naturally formed no it's not usually kind of made by made by humans and stuff but he just sort of opens it and all of this honey comes out and the most amount of bees you've ever seen in your life. It's incredible. Yeah.

So this guy had to kind of, basically he's got this special hoover and he hoovers them all up and takes them elsewhere. I've, um, that's cool. My father-in-law's got an apiary in his garden and I've been down there and checked on the hive and stuff with the suit on and you use some smoke to burn a bit of wood. Yeah, yeah, to make it sleepy or confused or something. No, it's almost like it just sedates them for some reason. And it's fascinating to learn about

how they, I mean everyone knows this I suppose, but it's fascinating to know the sort of hierarchy and it's actually a very complicated situation that the beehive, I mean in the winter they do everything in their power to keep the queen alive, because obviously this is in New England where my father-in-law lives and it gets very cold in the winter.

And I think that actually, sadly a lot of them died if not all of them last winter but normally they keep the Queen. When a mystery man from Britain punched them, punched the nest. They made good his escape across the Atlantic. With a big ball of money. He listens to this show so that has nothing to do with me. Anyway, yeah, so listen, I've got, for my main character. I'm going to start like a mystery a mystery podcast, like, serial,

where we try and find out how all the bees died, and it's definitely you. You haven't got the motivation to do that. Professor Plum in the air fury. I would definitely be Professor Plum, by the way. So, figs into Mankata, specifically wasp-laden figs. I'm going to move on. Speaking of wasps who buzz, what about this for mine?

A very special buzz. I would like to nominate buzz aldrin's right july 1969 expenses claim now if you're not aware it's not food related it's not it's not we're finally deviating from the unplanned food theme so believe it or not and it is hard to believe but trust me believe this is true at the end of july 1969 of course um the summer in which um apollo 11 successfully landed on the moon and the man walked on the moon for the first time and and uh and came back again successfully i love the way i said that man walked on the moon we can all take credit for it yeah um he was required to submit a travel expenses claim it called a travel voucher at the time yeah and he submitted one for that trip of 33.31 cents um for his trip and he actually published this on his twitter page which is a

fantastic follow buzzword he's brilliant on twitter he's 87 still going strong he's doing all this stuff uh all over the place he published a photo of his expenses claim from that particular trip um from houston texas uh to them to the moon via cape canady florida and Texas to the moon via Cape Kennedy, Florida and then from the moon back to the Pacific Ocean to Hawaii and then back to Houston. It was approved on August 26, 1969, signed off. It was incredible. For every place you go there must be like a code that that part of the administrative process has to go through. So it's like, what code do I put next to moon? Yeah, I know, right? Like, what number invoice do I put?

If you look on it, I'll try and share it if I remember on our Twitter, at Luke and Pete Show. It's typed out like a typewriter, as you'd expect. I mean, which is amazing, thinking that they've actually gone to the moon and still using typewriters, but that's obviously how it was. But I actually, and it reminded me that a number of years ago, I read a great book by a guy called Andrew Smith called Moondust in search of the men who fell to earth. And he goes and hunts, doesn't hunt them. Like the Nazi hunters in South America. He goes and finds all the men who are still living who have walked on the moon and tries to explain how deeply it affected their lives and all this other stuff.

It's a really fascinating read. I recommend it. It's called Moondust. And there's a great passage in it based on this which I'll read to you now. It says,

We assume that Uncle Sam handsomely rewarded the single combat warriors who hung their asses far out over the line and did one of the most amazing things that any of us can imagine

but no, not at all. When these men went to the moon they received the same per diem compensation as they would have for being away from the base in Bakersfield

$8 a day before various deductions like accommodation because the government was providing the bed in the spaceship fantastic how about that hey fantastic i think i'm almost certain that um because money was still um important to these guys i'm fairly certain they um signed a lot of baseball cards, and they hid them away in case they died to sell them on and provide for their family and stuff, because they couldn't get insurance, obviously, because you're going to that bloody moon. Well, listen, for this $8 a day per diem, day rate essentially, it's $55 a day now in today's money, to give you some perspective and they were paid I think roughly

$17,000 to $20,000 a year as a salary which is equivalent to about $100,000 to $125,000 a year now which is obviously a good salary these guys are at the very forefront of technology and they're amazing pilots, hugely well qualified in some cases scientifically as well a fantastic

insight into what it was like back in all those years ago apparently as well. A fantastic insight into what it was like back in all those years ago. Apparently as well, Buzz was... Buzz is a great guy. Do you ever really punish that guy? Well, this is it. I was about to say. So there was a...

For those who haven't seen or heard about this, there was a conspiracy theorist guy who... A moon truther. Yeah, idiot. Who went around... He went around... He's a little worm as well. I know.

He was a little worm. And he went around... Obviously, Neil Armstrong passed away now. I'm not sure about Michael Collins. I think he might have done as know. He was a little worm. And he went around, obviously Neil Armstrong passed away now. I'm not sure about Michael Collins, I think he might have done as well, who was the third guy. And Buzz Aldrin. He tried to find them at all these different various events. And when he was able to essentially doorstep them,

he had a Bible with him and he made them swear on the Bible that they indeed walked on the moon and that actually happened. And I think Neil Armstrong, who's a very reserved, sort of quiet guy, just didn't engage with him. I think Michael Collins was the same. he went straight up to buzz aldrin it's great video he's got a t-shirt trousers and some braces and he walks up to him looks it punches him in the face he goes why did you lie why did you lie about the moon but um buzz um buzz was apparently at one point supposed to be the first man on the moon. Right. So he was a lunar module pilot.

So the way it was going to work, because obviously this had never been done before. It was going to be Buzz to do it. But Neil Armstrong, who was the mission commander and technically the senior officer, successfully lobbied for a change in the protocol of how things were going to work, because obviously it was very well planned. And they discussed the practicalities of it, of how small the lunar module was as well, and worked out that it would be easier for Neil Armstrong,

so he eventually did it. So it made sense logistically for it. But Buzz apparently, although he's come out the other side now, and seems like a great guy now, he was very, very upset about it for a long time. Michael Collins, who was left aboard the command module who for one at one moment um or for that that 20 i think it was 21 hours ish they were on the moon for that period of time michael collins was officially the most isolated man in human

history the loneliest man ever basically because he was so far away from everyone right yeah yeah um he he commented saying that um buzz resented not being first more than he appreciated being second. But Buzz made up for it by being the first man. By punching both of them. But no. On the moon. Could have happened. But he made up for it for being the first man to take a piss on the moon.

Is that right? Yeah. Of course they just went. They couldn't wait. And he was like, these guys are taking a while. Doing that, yeah. Doing a wazz. That would have been a surprise.

Fantastic. I presume they peed weightlessly before, but I mean, before they got there. There was talk that a lot of the astronauts who went to the moon covered it. I mean, at that point, because I think, I don't know this for sure, but I think because it was pushed through so quickly, because it was a whole propaganda type thing element to it as well,

a lot of the stuff they didn't really prioritise. So I think a lot of the tests, because you know, obviously a few of the missions they went round the moon and orbited it before they actually walked in it. A lot of those missions, some of the astronauts were refusing to use the toilet. They were remote, but essentially taking a modium for like three or four days.

Yeah, because it was such a traumatic thing to have to do. And one of the other things I found out while reading about this as well is these days for astronauts who spend a lot of time up in space one of the biggest things that affects them is the skin on the soles of their feet. Oh, it softens?

Because they're not being used. Right. So the skin on the soles of the feet can apparently essentially perish and become very, very painful because obviously the skin is designed to be padded down, to be worn away, to be used over and over again. This is not happening. And if they spend extended amounts of time in weightlessness

and they're up in sort of near-Earth orbit, it can affect them quite badly. I can't imagine how the joints sort of deal with sort of being back on. It's bad, yeah. And I think the muscles sort of tend to atrophy as well. But I mean, listen, there'll be plenty of people out there who know a lot more about science than we do who can get in touch, but...

Maybe someone's listening on the ISS. Yeah. I'm going to be quiet now. So, Buzz Aldrin... So, I think it's buzzaldrin at liverbeatshow.com. Buzz Aldrin's July 1969 expenses claim. Trulyaldrin at lucanpeachshow.com Buzz Aldrin's July 1969 expenses claim

truly one of the best artefacts in history gotta be absolutely gotta be that's my thing well wasn't that fun thank you very much

for joining us this week on the Luke and Pete show best of we'll be back on Thursday with more of this nonsense but in the meantime do get in touch

with the show because we will be back next week. And yeah, hello at lucanpeachshow.com to do that. I'll see you soon. Bye. This was a Radio Stakhanov production.