The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Barry Williams (The Brady Bunch) | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Billy Corgan sits down with TV icon Barry Williams in the living room of the Brady Bunch house for a funny, nostalgic, and surprisingly emotional conversation. From becoming Greg Brady at just 14 years old to navigating child stardom, Broadway, syndication fame, and decades of public fascination. The two explore why The Brady Bunch continues to resonate across generations, how Gen X embraced the show through endless reruns, and why its idealized vision of family life struck such a powerful chord with kids growing up in fractured homes. Barry also shares stories about working with Bob Fosse on Pippin, surviving the infamous “Cousin Oliver” era, and eventually making peace with being called “Greg” for the rest of his life.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When I was like 10, 10 years old, I marched into the kitchen after they've been keeping me away from it. And I said, Mom, Dad, you are standing in the way of my destiny. If you like people, it's terrific. Of course, the Brady Bunch, as an American institution, has endured on so many different levels. The point of what the show is, and what the show is truly about, is how to get along. How does that work? And I remember watching thinking, I wish that was my family. Sure. You guys represented some sense of family than we certainly didn't have.

That's just something you can't act. That's just something you can't make it up. You can't write it. It's there, not there. And we had that. Is there any pearl of wisdom that you can share? Get on the ride, stay on the ride, love the ride. It's the only one we get. Barry Williams, so nice to see you. Here we are in the Brady House. So nice to be here. It's kind of like welcome home. Some people ask, you know, if I ever left, And here we are. We're going to get to the leaving and coming home part. Very glad to welcome you here.

Yeah, thank you. And thank you for arranging this. This is really cool. It's a cool thing for our show. Yeah, thank you. Have you ever heard of this term I can never say it correctly, Simulacra. Do you know that term?

Simulacra. Yeah. It sounds like it simulates lacra. Cut. The concept of simulacra is, I first heard about it in science fiction. It's the, It's the idea. It's a copy for which there is no original. And the example I always use is like if you've ever been to a 50s style diner. It's the idealized version of a 50s diner. But it never really existed in the way that you, like there's Denny's that have 50s. Right, right. So it's the idea of like it's an impressionistic vision of what it would have been like to be in a 50s diner. But it's not like the Chrysler building, which is authentic. And that art deck.

kind of style. And so in a way, this is a simulacra because it is an imitation and there is an original, but it's not, the original never really existed as a television. Exactly right. And I was going to make that point as the difference being that that set never, ever existed as a house. So this becomes its own unique and original sort of structure. It's crazy because it strikes me as particularly American. in that here we have a home that everybody knew the outside because of the television show. But now it's been built up on the inside to actually represent the original TV set. And you've had a big hand in it.

And Christopher from the show. Christopher Knight, all of us did. All of us participated. That's amazing. All six kids, which is remarkable, we're all still active and around, and you might even say camera ready, which is kind of nice. And still good friends. That's amazing. We'll get to that, too.

And may I just say about the house, too. Please, yeah. The biggest difference for us when I come in because it feels comfortable, but it has a ceiling. And we never had a ceiling on the sound stage. So that makes it feel kind of, you know, contained in a different way. Yeah, I know because you were involved and thank you gave us a little tour before we started. Do you find yourself sort of comparing your memory of the set versus,

and I know you said they blew up photos to get close, but like, you said this has two less stairs and do you find yourself almost phasing between memory like the what you remember and then this is a real place but it was a real place it was just a set right the experience it just i absorb the experience and it's a lifetime growing yeah changing seeing being and you come into this is like wow it's a crash of memories and and experiences and at different stages and these really vulnerable stages. We started this series. I was 14 years old.

And we finished and it went off the air when it just turned 20. So all those teenage years. And then Susan Olson, Cindy, was started when she was seven. She's 12. I mean, big stages of our lives. And this represents it. Well, plus there's the fascination. And of course, the Brady Bunch, as an American institution,

has endured on so many different levels, you know, like the word we we use these days as meta. You know, it becomes a microcosm of broken families, creating new families with, you know, parents from divorces, and that was always the subtext of the show. So in a way, and here we are, we're still examining the phenomenon of the show so many years later. And you've had the interpersonal experience of being in the show, out of the show, and in many ways you're kind of back in the show. But you're all. also in charge of what happens with that narrative. Yes, a bit, a bit.

Can I ask, because I'm fascinated by that, how much control do you feel you have of that narrative? Because obviously somebody owns the Brady Bunch intellectual property. When I talked to Mickey Dolans, he was like, every time I go out and tour, I have to, you know, I have to still pay whoever screen gems to use the monkey's name. You know, like how much authorship do you feel you have over the story? a wide vast amount of it.

They had, our studio, Sherwood Schwartz, the copyrights, all of that. It's clear what we own and don't own. I don't own the character. I don't own the character name. I own my participation in the show. I don't know, I don't own the brand, the Brady Bunch, but I can use it to, oh, you know, I can use it to market if I want to. Barry Williams of the, in the star of. whatever. So, and with the house, this has just become a national historic landmark,

which gives it a kind of a, both a validation and a relevance. And it's going to stay this way. So, you know, we're working to look how we can make it more accessible to people, and we're using it to, for, for, to benefit charities and raise money for charities. And our custodian, Tina Treyhant, It's been very, very helpful and oriented toward that. So we're trying to continue that kind of brand. And for viewers who wouldn't understand, this is an actual house on an actual sort of, you know, L.A. suburban street. Like, we're not on some movie set somewhere. This is like a real home now.

It's no, it lives here. It's the facade. It's the house that we saw. Yeah, so that's even crazy. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, right. Metapolitics. The other thing I thought of, and I'm sorry to get too spiritual this early, and I can never say this word properly,

Kwan. Do you know what a koan is? No. It's kind of, I think it's a Buddhist concept. The most famous one is, what is the sound of one hand clapping? Not much. But you ever, it's dry it. They're these parables, they're unsalvable parables, I think, would be the idea.

And I think the Brady phenomenon is a koan in its own way. It's an unsolable parable. because if you went back to, it was Sherwood Schwartz, right? So if you went back in a time machine and you at 14 years old and you sat you guys down and said, listen, you know,

literally, you know, 50 something years from now, people are still going to be fascinated. There's going to be a real Brady house. There'll have been various revivals. There'll still be a high level interest in the stars of the show. Books. You know, you see what I'm saying?

Yeah. I would have just laughed. Yeah, would have blown your mind. would have been like, there's how. And by the way, there was no, there was certainly precedence for nostalgia in American culture. You know, Dick Cavett famously would bring out Gloria Swanson and Betty Davis. And they would talk about old MGM, Irving Thalberg and all that stuff. So it seems to me that you would at least have a relationship with, okay, well, that's possible that at some point that if the series is successful, we'll be in that same sort of thing.

People are going to want to talk to us. But no, this is a phenomenon. And it really gets into generational politics. people are still very interested in your personal lives, beyond just like, let's call it, the tabloid aspect of it. It's a very different kind of nostalgia because when you're just referring to people that did things at a period when the audience grew up

or could associate with the movies or whatever they were doing, in this case, they're actually seeing through syndication the shows and creating their own relationship with the programming in multi-endiping. generations. Yeah. Is there a common bond that you've seen from people why they bonded with the show so so intently, please? Yeah. And there are a couple. Circling back to what you were saying about a blended family, which had never been done, you know, on television. And they brought us together. But the point of Sherwood Schwartz, our creator, the point of what the show is and what the show is

truly about is how to get along. How does that work? And especially when you've got different families, you've got boys and girls, sisters in the competitions and all of that. And how with this group do we all get along? Yeah. And that is one of the things that people resonate with and look and see inside the show. Yeah. There is a relatability to the characters, oldest, youngest, boy, girl, sister, jealousy, all of that kind of thing. Also, I don't, your family, you're growing up, there's a comparison. This is a model of a functional family. What would happen if it worked? To interject myself in this, I used to watch, because we, of course, I was born in 67, so I mostly saw the reruns, at least that's what I remember. And I remember watching thinking, I wish that was my family. Sure.

Because I didn't have any of that behind me. And there weren't many models of what a family would look like. So that's a nice thing that go ahead and have a vision of or see, oh, okay. And there are comparisons and a contrast. And of course, you could take that both ways. There's a good part of that. And you can also go, and this, what I'm into sucks. Yeah.

I saw, I do, I use a certain amount of, you know, AI to do my research because I can ask specific questions and to dive down deep. And AI gave me a basically a summation of your life. And I wrote it down because I thought it was interesting. So this isn't, it'd be interesting for me. I haven't done this yet. I haven't died yet.

Have I? This is something that's going to be read. Maybe we're in Brady Heaven. Yes, rest. I'm with you in Brady Heaven. The quote was, William's path shows how how child stars can evolve through

can evolve through theater grit. I'll start again. Williams Pass shows how child stars can evolve through theater grit, self-aware nostalgia, and ongoing creativity into a varied career of nearly six decades or about six decades at this point. I thought that was interesting.

It is interesting. And I could have written that. That's very true. The whole trick in terms of career has been, is recreat, Yeah, you know, recreating and diversifying. And so what I did was I diversified mediums. And I came from television.

I thought that would probably take me right into motion pictures. That was absent. I knew I wanted to have music. I wanted to have comedy and stage work. And that's the first thing I did after the Brady bunch was to head to New York and auditioned for Pippin. Right. And 74 sits in there. What a lot of people don't know is the person who auditioned me.

and the person who actually I won the job from, and that was Bob Fossey. Wow. Bob was there any... Okay, wait. What did you think of your dancing? Well, I didn't have to do a lot of dancing. Okay. That was left to the leading player.

What I had to do was a lot of movement and choreography. So steps and in time and that kind of thing. And he gave me the greatest piece of direction, the most relatable piece of direction I have ever been given in that audition. And there's a song called Corner of the Sky that we were using to audition with, you know, rivers belong where they can ramble, eagles belong where they can fly

in the choreos of his arms out, right? And so Bob Fawsey, he was in the middle of the house, dark house, just like you'd think. This is on the stage at the Imperial Theater, on Broadway, right where it was, I was doing, I was auditioning for the tour so that show was already in production with Johnny Rubenstein and Irene.

And so he gets up and he comes down to the foot of the stage, which I understand was like he'd never done before. And he says, cigarette in his mouth, rolled up pack in his shirt sleeves. And he says, okay, kid, pretty good, pretty good. That part about the Eagles when they fly, you're giving me a Cessna and I want a 747. Try to get. I got it. Got it. Okay, I got it.

And rivers belong where they can ramble. Eagles belong where they can fly. And I got their job. There you go. Because we're talking about this, you know, this schism between reality, and here we are in reality about something that was a fictional reality in the television show. I thought we could discuss a little bit your real family. Okay. Because so much energy has been spent on your not real family, which became your real family in a way.

That is the one most people are familiar with. Yes. So can you talk a little bit about your real family? Yes. I was having a discussion about character and, you know, how I feel about the Greg Brady character. There was a difference because in my own family, I had a nuclear family and a wonderful middle-class upbringing. Dad went to the office. Mom was a homemaker.

two older brothers. So there are three of us and I'm the youngest. Okay. So I was the brunt of a lot and kind of like the, like Mikey, the crash test dummy. And so if there were things to be done that involved danger and I was willing to do them to be included. Okay. As the youngest, so I could try and fit in. So that was flipped when I became.

the eldest of five siblings. So I grew up in a wonderful neighborhood, middle-class neighborhood. I could ride my bike to elementary school. We didn't lock the doors. We lived near the ocean, and that was a big part of my growing up. It was stable. Public school, routine, dinner every night. dinner around the table.

And it's surprisingly similar to the created world of the Brady Punch. So unlike many, that transition or understanding the kind of the logic of the show was not a big adjustment for me, except it was cool that now got to be the eldest. Sure. And in taking a cue from where I had been, I became like the benevolent. old brother, the reliable big brother. And kind of flipped that and, of course, the writers, you know, played all into that. Yeah. But it did carry over into light.

Yeah. We were just doing a television series. We recorded albums, five of them, and we toured. And so we're doing logistics and airports and fairs. And we're in Las Vegas. And there are a lot of things around that and a lot of people to corral and there are probably only two people looking after them, two adults and then myself. Okay.

So those roles kind of would roll over into real life as well. What inspired you to get into the arts? Ha! This is crazy. I was three years old, three and a half years old, going to nursery school and watching TV on Saturday mornings. And there was a cartoon lineup, but there was this one show on television every Saturday morning. And I love this show called Fury, about a horse. I don't know that one.

Big horse. Fury was a horse that nobody could ride. Peter Graves was the patriarch, and he adopted this kid. The only person could ride this horse was his son. And he could get on, so I said, I want to be an actor and a cowboy. Okay. And I asked, well, it turns out that Peter Graves' daughter was going to nursery school with me, and we were pals. and then I found out her dad was this man that I watched.

So I asked him, Mr. Graveskinner, how do you get to be an actor? And he said, what a voice too. Almost dismissed it. But he just said, well, I thought about it. And that's exactly what I did. I went home and I kept thinking about it. My parents wanted to keep me away from it. My dad was not terribly encouraging, although ultimately supporting, Hollywood types, you know.

So you didn't have stage parents. It was totally your eye. idea totally and then at one point uh and when i was like 10 10 years old i marched into the kitchen after they've been keeping me away from it and i said mom dad you are standing in the way of my destiny and they said okay dad said uh you know you want to do this go study it don't you know don't just go on a set not knowing what you're doing so that's what i did i studied acting with other child actors that were busy at the time. I did private lessons. I did group lessons, scene study, and got an agent. Wow. And then, and that agent, we sometimes wonder,

they needed, she needed somebody with brown hair and blue eyes and or, you know, really liked the reading. And she started sending me out. And I started working. And I worked and worked and worked and built a career. But yeah, I was leading that charge. I did not have. I did not have a typical stage parent. That's so interesting. Save me, I think. Because I've seen the other side of that. Yeah.

So, of course, you know, the show, the Brady show has been way explored. So I try not to go into the same, you know, 50 questions that you've been asked repeatedly. But I'm, because I asked you about your real family. And now that you can reflect on what became your TV family, like you said, you're, the kids are all still in some form of relationship. You still work together. You still. Absolutely.

And I know from talking to Susan Olson, because she was on the show as well, that, you know, there's, there's bonding there that's almost becomes like sister brother. It really is a literal thing. It becomes a different type of family. Where the people we knew, trusted could depend on and relate to. We were going through a common experience at different stages of our lives, but a common experience and that created a very, very strong bond. But when you look back now, sort of like, you know, you could take it however you want. But if you look back at, at. you know, your TV parents and then obviously the other kids. I mean, can you sort of describe, I guess, the familial affiliation that you have looking back? Does that make sense? It's like, can you sum up your TV family maybe in a nutshell? Because it's the analogy I went to, and it's unfair, but, you know, when I started in my band when I was 20 with the other three people,

never in a million years I imagine that I'd still be thinking about them, arguing about them, arguing with them, you know, it becomes an inherited type of family. Decades later. And now when you look back, you can see the sort of the foundational

relationships sort of forming even before you knew what was happening. Right. So I'm just asking you to kind of sum up your feeling on that because you inherited this TV family, which we're still talking about. Right. And again, you can take it however, you want. I've just, well, the word I have, and you'll hear this probably a lot today, is gratitude

for that. It's been, it was, it expanded, you know, the family. It gave us commonality, relatability. And then to have these people, these same people, familiar people, all through our lives at the major signpost marriages, sometimes going through divorces, the birth of children and families. So I'm really grateful to have that with a group that I, have shared virtually my entire life. Yeah. Yeah, I think the term that comes in mind is peak experience, right? Like being in a band, you have these peak experiences that only the four of us understand.

And even when the relationships fall apart, there's an understanding, like, you went through this very intense thing. You see it oftentimes, and it's not the best analogy, but you see people who are in war together. Yes. They have some connection that even if they don't get along, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the trench. Yeah, yeah. And so obviously all respect to our veterans, we're not trying to compare ourselves to them. But it's something about the, I guess the point is, the point of connection is something about the intensity of the experience.

Imagine. I mean, the numbers we throw around today and the numbers we were talking about then. At its peak, how many viewers were watching? Do you remember? Well, 40 million, 45 million. I mean, that's a week. So were you recognized? Exactly. You're walking down the street.

Right. You still recognize. I've hung out with you personally a few times and it's like people see you. I mean, there's no way they don't see you. Well, no. And that's both because of the reruns and that foundation and also all the new things that's taken on forward. But the reason it was so impactful is because we went from being who we were in our lives

and then doing something that we all enjoyed doing but was professional and, you know, and was focused and concentrated, and then went out into public. And our lives were changed dramatically by that because, and that's a very profound experience to assimilate with growing up and being a teenager and going through some of that awkwardness and being, you know, kind of observed and scrutinized. And that becomes a very impactful period, like you were saying. I don't want to really talk much about the show. We'll talk more about the effect of the show.

But I do have to complain about Cousin Oliver because the actor's name is Robbie Rist. Like most people, and I don't want to bore you with my version of memories of the show, but I just remember hating Cousin Oliver. And the only reason I bring it up to you and try to make you laugh a little bit is because it was the last six episodes, I guess.

he was on the last six episodes. They brought him in kind of a stunt booking, try to pop some ratings. Kind of similar what they did with. It was, remember, like, Scooby-Doo they brought in, it was like, they brought in the minidoo. Right. I can't remember it was like, Scrappy Do.

Right. Yeah, they brought in Scrappy Doe because it was going to get canceled. And then Scrappy Doe had been an original character, so they brought him back, I think, for the third season, and they got some ratings boost. So I think they were thinking, cousin Oliver was going to somehow, A lot of people will compare that to another show Happy Days. Oh, that's right.

When the Fawns, they felt they needed a burst and they put big skis on and behind a boat. He had to jump the shark. And then the show went off the air. And Robbie did six shows and the show went off the air. So they made that compare. Now, just as a disclaimer right in the front, Robbie Rist, I consider a friend of mine. I like him. I think he was hysterical on the show.

He did a great job. He's a good actor. He's a good musician and he's very active and busy. He was completely wrong for our show. Yeah. And it was exactly what you say. It was a kind of a stunt. And what that was is in simple terms, I think the writers had run out of ideas.

Oh, I see. Or they weren't going to let the kids grow up. They, you know, I should have been going off to college. Kind of like The Simpsons where the kids never grew up, right? Right. And so to, but we were all grown up. Yeah. So they brought in somebody young to tag along with Cindy and with Bobby.

Yeah. But the shoot. and the way they wrote for them was not Brady-like at all. I mean, they're giving them, da-d-da. They're giving them, you know, one, two, three punchline. Yeah, he was kind of smaltzy. And it didn't, it didn't, it didn't fit in at all. It was kind of, so it was not well received.

And he kind of had to suffer the blood of it. I remember. But good guy, good guy. God bless him. So March 8, 1974 was the last Brady show. Wow. And I wanted to talk. March 8th was the last.

Filming, right. I mean, I don't know. The original. I just, I just, I just, I don't see air in 74 in September.

Yeah. Right. So, so point being is, is, you know, that becomes a date where, um, your life changes,

but in ways that you couldn't have even even anticipated at the, at the moment. I like to sort of note those moments, you know what I mean? Um, when I talked to Susan, you know, we talked about,

you know, and she was, what, 12 years old when the show went off the area. And it's like, a very mature 12 years old. years old though. By then, she's still a very mature whatever she is now. Yeah.

But I wanted to ask you, because I'm sure you've heard from people of my generation, you know, Gen X in particular, because it was really Gen X that brought the Brady Bunch franchise back. If you remember, there was the Brady Bunch play that started in Chicago. Oh, yeah, the real live Brady Bunch. I knew all those people. I literally worked in a record store tour doors down. And so I was there at the genesis of that.

And I seem to re-kickstart the phenomenon and the movie followed and all that. So God bless them. Saturday, I'm a lot. Yeah. But it seems like, and maybe I'm projecting because I'm Gen X, but it seems Gen X has such a particular relationship. And I again, repeating myself, but I think it's because we were watching the reruns coming home from school in those formative years, eight years old, 12 years old, and watching this family sort of work out their problems on TV. And in my case, I was like, wow, I wish someone would listen to me. I'm just curious for your reflection now that we can both look back on it.

Because it's a different generation, I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on how Gen X, because we were oftentimes called the latchkey generation, because we were literally the kids that came home to an empty house, and we were in a basement. And all my memories of watching your show were in the basement, freezing, cold, and there's people in a warm, beautiful house just like this, having a great time. crazy stuff happens, but, you know, everybody gets along at the end. And, you know, you had a maid.

You know, we didn't have a maid. Everybody who has six kids should have an Alice. Well, God bless. I just wonder if you have any reflections on that generation, because I'm sure you must have, you must have heard 10,000 versions of what I just said. Do you know what I mean? That you guys represented some sense of family that we certainly didn't have. I think that, Billy, that goes back to relatability.

And, you know, the most. morality of the show and the lessons, they were light, but they're also timeless. And they were, they were, you know, common sense kind of morality. Yeah, it's not a, it's not a Zen, no, not a Zen show. It's just, but, you know, things like using exact words or, uh, being honest or authentic, being able to go to dad and have him listen to you. Yeah, we didn't have that. No, right. And I think that, that those, those morals and the kind of wrap it up at the end of the, of the episode and start another adventure on the next week. Those kinds of things are safe. Yeah. And they can be internalized in a way that doesn't go away because it's reinforced. And if that's not going

on in your life, want it to happen in your life. Do you feel, I mean, this might be a stretch, but there must have been those moments where people come up almost they want to talk to you about. Oh, not that. They want to invite me to dinner. They consider, literally consider me, part of their family. Yeah. Now, I'll give you a couple of examples. Now, I've moved from Los Angeles, where I grew up and here in Hollywood and I moved to a small little community in Middle America, in Missouri, Branson, Missouri.

I go into a cafe there, sit down to have a couple of scrambled eggs and toast and a cup of coffee, and people will sit down next to me and start a conversation because they know you. They think they know. And they pick right up in the middle. Oh, God. So, Gracie and you. You know, you have plans today. Have you seen the show down the street?

And they'll just pick it up in a conversation. So there's that kind of familiarity. Yeah, as you know now, there's a privilege in that if you have a good attitude about it. Sure. Because it's like having friends everywhere you go. If you like people, it's terrific. Yeah. So you come in and you start at a complete.

different level with someone and it's easier to kind of cut through and that the Brady thing only lasts so long and then you're you know talking oh you're real people right yeah I mean I was I mean this is a compliment I hope you take it as a compliment the first time we met we went to dinner with a mutual friend of ours and I remember we were walking down the street because we were going to a concert or something and and literally somebody called out hey Greg you know what I mean yes and and I remember thinking like because if that was me I'd be like oh I'm going to kill you and you were so graceful you were so kind about it yeah and i thought i thought yeah i was so impressed that you had sort of made peace with the whole thing yeah that wasn't always the case okay that was not always the case i think for in the beginning being called gregg made me feel like they didn't know me and that somehow it was a threat to my identity did it feel like a diminishment in a way it did yeah it well a non-acknowledgment as well yeah because you know it's it's it's nice to be recognized, but, you know, it is, after all, a character. I'm the rat in the cage guy, so that's what I get in airports, you know, because I,

my one song, you know, so like you're the rat in the cage guy, right? But at some point, you know, I came to understand less about it being about me and more about what they're experiencing, what they're seeing, and what their intention is. And it wasn't meant to be offensive. It wasn't meant to be, to disregard me. And so at what point did you reach this Zen kind of understanding? Oh gosh, after several years on the table, I think, of, you know, examination and, you know, trying to work through and put these things together and assimilate everything. I was probably, you know, into my 30s.

Okay. Yeah. So maybe 10 years, 15 years after the. Yeah, that sounds about right. That's a lot to process. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was. Now, you know, we, I don't want to jump.

No, you talk about whatever you want to talk about. Well, the interesting thing about fan relationship for me was I never knew really what the fan, with somebody who'd watch the show and embraced the show and had an experience with the show, what that really meant to them. Yeah. Because I wasn't, I didn't, I wasn't a viewer of the show. I studied the shows sometimes. I looked at them, you know, from a directorial or a show or, but I wasn't really looking at, watching for entertainment.

And so people that had really taken, taken it in and had meaning to, it was hard for me to make that jump. Yeah. My Brady mate, Brady Bro, Christopher Knight, and I embarked on a podcast called The Real Brady Bros. And it was episodic recap. So the challenge and the idea of this podcast is to do one episode a week, break it down, get into the minutia, give our perspectives. We would watch it. We'd take notes. We would exchange notes and then sit down and zoom together and do this audio podcast of each episode, where we were at the time, what happened, who the guest stars were, where they are now, all of this. but what we've discovered was the aspect of what viewers were getting and taking out of it

because we were removed from it now so we could watch it and be entertained by it and watch what the point of it was and what it was about and it gave us such great insight to what people are relating to when we're face-to-face as fans and it was very, very valuable for both of us and kind of, you know, brought it, you know, in a full circle. Yeah. The only thing I think I could add to that is I feel like I've seen every Brady Bunch episode, at least five to seven times.

But that's because... Well, just allow me just to be shocked. I did not, I did not know that. You know, I know. But I think that was, I don't, I think that was common for a lot of our generation because in that, in that period of syndication, Brady's was always on. I feel like it was always on like four. And because it must have drew viewers, it was like a prime,

get home from school, watch an episode, then do homework. Or in our case, I feel like they showed episodes back to back. Usually, too. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like I saw every one of those episodes. So it wasn't just, oh, that one episode. Like, it was like imprinted in your brain, almost like a DNA thing where, you know, you really. Well, God bless.

That's what I'm saying. I think that's the intensity of that exchange. It's powerful. I think it's syndication sort of gave the show this other sort of. I don't even know how to explain it. It's like, you know, we've all had that experience where it's like, we don't totally understand a song the first time we hear it. And about the seventh time we kind of get and go, oh, okay.

There it is. It starts to feel it. Yeah. Well, exactly. You feel it, it becomes actualized inside. Yeah, because it becomes at some point less about, was that a good episode or a bad episode. It's like, oh, this is that episode. It's like, this is when that thing happens.

You know, it sort of breaks down the helix of the thing anyway. And there's an arc between, between the six. seasons as well, the innocence of the first season. And we literally were getting to know each other. The second and third seasons where the writers were really on their game. And then when it began like the fifth season, which I always thought was the best, because I liked it the best. But as a show, I take the fourth season when we went to Hawaii, that one. So everybody remembers Hawaii. Right. I'd be remiss not to talk a little bit about the Brady variety shows because I don't remember them at the time. And I talked with

Susan about them. And they're such a microcosm of 70s culture and entertainment. I just jump in here because I just think it's so fast to me. Of course, Rip Taylor, Milton Burrell, Vincent Price, Charo, Rich Little. I mean, that is like that Farrah Fossa, Tina Turner. I mean, Milton Burl did just everybody. I mean, it was an amazing experience. I said, I recommend going to YouTube immediately and seeing as many of these as you can. They're Fast. It is fantastic. They're like, they're like cool, fun, weird, strange. So over the top. Terrible. Like, it's all like this car crash of like, what is happening. Did you, did you have a sense at the time of, because obviously, okay, the series is not going to continue. And yet here you are a couple years later. You guys are still, yeah, three years later. Would you, I'm going to give my opinion to me, you tell me if you agree or don't agree. It seems to me that maybe that's the first indication that the audience doesn't want to let you guys go. Does it make sense? It does.

It does. Like, why are you doing variety TV specials? That's a very good question. Why were we doing? And there went there skits too, right? You guys would do. Oh, skits? Yeah, a little like kind of five-minute, like Carol Burnett-type skits and choreography and duets and popular music.

You seem particularly to be invested in the variety show. I loved it. Well, shades of things to come, right? Well, yes. And I was doing musical theater. I'd finish my Pippin tour by then, and now I'm coming back. The first song I sang on that show. show was

corner of the sky. Okay. And so, yeah, and then all these guest stars coming on because that was, you know, a genre of the day.

Yeah. And in the mid-70s, kind of everybody had a variety show. Now it was over the top and it was campy and it was silly and the costumes were completely overblown.

I loved all of it. Yeah. If you'd never had success, which obviously you have, but you'd still have an interesting story to tell because you run a lot of these apocryful show

that are legendary shows. You know, Dragnet Mission Impossible Mod Squad, this is all pre-Bradie Bunch. But the one that she jumped out to him was Gomer Pyle. Yeah. You got any good Gomer Pyle styles? I just love Gomer Pile.

I do. I did three shows at Paramount. Mod Squad, Gomer Pile, and that girl. I don't remember that girl. That girl was Marlowe Thomas. Oh, okay. I do know that show, yeah. Those are both done at Paramount.

I can take you full circle. Please, yeah. Because our director. for the first six episodes of the Brady Bunch, John Rich, was doing the casting with Sherwood Schwartz. He directed both the Gomer Pio and that girl that I was in. So I was an autograph hound in the Gomer Pile. We shot it at Paramount Studios where we filmed the Brady Bunch.

So when it came around to casting, he knew me. That helped a lot. The network was aware of me, and so was the studio. So I think that, you know, it's these little things. That was a one-day shoot with Jim Neighbors and Sergeant. And it was fun and then it was over. And then it led to other things. Now, just after I got the Brady Bunch, I want to circle back to when I made my decision to become an actor.

Peter Graves, Fury, is now the star of Mission Impossible. Right. Mr. Phelps. And I have an audition for that. I haven't started filming Brady yet, but I have an audition for Mission Impossible. And the mission was I was a young king, and my uncle was evil and wanted to off me.

And the mission was to get me to see that he was not, didn't have my best interest in mind. And I got that job. And I got to work with all my favorite show with Peter Graves. And that was full circle. Yeah, it was really cool. The transition to musical theater post Brady, it seems obvious because of your interests.

But like you said, you hoped movies would be there, they weren't. Was there, was it that you didn't get the kind of TV jobs you were looking for? Or you were like, this is sort of more where my heart is? Like, what was the logic at that point? At that time, I knew studios, I knew filming, and I wanted to be on stage. So I really actively pursued that. Can you explain the logic behind that at that point? Because that's an interesting decision.

Well, it's a very different medium. I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's such a different medium, such a different skill set. But, you know, music was a very, very important part of what I was doing, and I loved the expression of it, and I was working on it, learning it, and I was learning dance and movement. The Brady's, we all had choreography, separated us from the Partridge family. No competition. And, you're right.

And so it seemed pretty logical. Musical seemed to be. And Florence Anderson was, you know, it was a great inspiration because of Oklahoma. Oklahoma, yeah. She's fantastic in that, too. I mean, very gifted person. And she was the one who actually said that this tour was going to go out. So she led me to it.

It was very helpful in allowing me to get inside to even compete for the show. Right. So did you face doubt, you know, TV actor and here you're coming to. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nobody in New York was excited to see Mr. Hollywood walk in there. And they don't, you know, they don't give away jobs there either. So I was very glad that I was, you know, as prepared as I could be.

There were several lessons I learned about theater etiquette on the road, and I should have been learning it earlier. But it was, it seemed like pretty natural. And then, you know, the business is strange. That, it happens, things happen the way they happen. And I found, in retrospect, embrace, embrace the way it's going. So if I wasn't getting a job, then I would take another job. or I would be proactive wherever I could be. It's harder to be proactive landing a series, landing a movie.

You know, you need reps to do that and meetings to happen and things like that. Auditioning for or in theater, I was getting calls. You know, oh, well, we'd like to have you in this production. I did 85. I've done 85 different production of theater. So I've a lot of experience in that. And I didn't have to audition as much. So they were coming more.

often. And so that became another reinvention. When did you feel, this is maybe too general question, but when did you feel like you kind of earned your stripe into the theater world? You know, I mean? Yeah. You walk through the door and obviously you've got to get some auditions and stuff like that, but there's always going to be that skepticism. Is it your name? And like, when did you feel? Like, you felt like, okay, theater world embraced you for you. Well, is that fair question? It is a fair question, and I don't, I mean, I don't know that, I mean, I, mine was really a less at result and more at process. Okay. So, you know, I just kind of throw in, do the very best I could, and, and, you know, be responsible and stay on top of it and, and, and deliver the best I could.

Then everybody else makes up their own mind. In terms of being accepted, you know, I've not won a Tony. I've not been nominated for a Tony. So maybe I was never accepted. I don't know. Yeah. I know I made a good living and I've been busy doing it and enjoyed every minute of it. Yeah.

So it seems to have been, you know, you get a sense of what you're doing. If you're doing a tour, two, three, four cities a week, every show is reviewed. Ah. So, you know, you've got local. Are you a review reader? If they're good. No, I read them all. And I didn't really, I don't know how much I learned from them because there's a lot of bias that goes into reviews.

But you can get a general feel whether you're hitting the mark or not. Sure. And I would listen to a review, well, what are they getting out of it? What are they feeling about it? What's the production providing for them? Not, you know, how I looked or, you know, the notes I was hitting or the range of voice. And not that kind of stuff. But what, you know, what were they taking from the production?

And that seemed to be generally very good, and I was generally name above title. So that made me feel like, okay, I've got a home here. You've had a particularly interesting life, and you've had a front seat to the American experience. You saw it in Hollywood. Yes. You saw it on the road as a theater actor and performer. And then, of course, in Branson. Branson.

Yeah. I mean, love Branson. Yeah. But I'm just curious. is because you're uniquely positioned to sort of look at how America perceives a lot of things, celebrity and fame being one of them, but also sort of the Americans sort of, you know, Americans have a particular obsession. We're sitting in the Brady House, you know, some how many years later, you know what I mean?

We are? Oh, that's right. We are. We are. But, you know, a European mind might sort of look down their nose at the way we obsess over things. but I think we have a particular engine that is, what I try to explain to people, maybe you've had this experience

because I tour all over the world with the band still, people are very critical of America. I'm not saying they haven't always been, but these last 15 years more so. And they almost want to ask me, like, what's going on with your country? Like, is your country gone mad?

And I think they come to a conclusion that we don't, we think, were good or we're perfect. And I said, well, in my estimation, most Americans realize that America is an imperfect country. And they said, then why do you guys sort of swing your, you know what's around the way that you do? And I said, because we believe in the American dream,

which is different. True. And just the fact, and we're examples of the American dream. I mean, we came from basically nothing to build up an incredible life and individual experiences. So what I'm after is, is, from your front row, well, you're not front row, see you're on stage, but from your vantage point, what do you, what have you seen about the American sort of spirit that has impressed you or beguiled you or is at the root of your ability to relate to people? Because I think your artistic life has so much to do with people being able to connect with you.

And you're that way in person. I mean, it's just in your character or your being. What a terrific question. Oh, thank you. And that one's never been asked. We need a little bell. Every time I ask the questions, everyone asks a little bell.

I think in many ways we're products of our generation and what tools were given to make our lives. I think we in America have more opportunity and more tools to work with that are available to us than pretty much anywhere. No, then anywhere. But it depends a lot on how that is, what we're being told. What are the conditions of the world at the time?

The information that we're fed, and we are fed a lot of information, and even more now when we're just completely overloaded with it. So, you know, you want an answer, any answer you want you can find, right? So if that's guiding you. So I'm of a generation where it was roll up your sleeves, hard work, go to it, you know, stay focused, do a good job, be responsible, and don't, you know, don't just blow it all, you know, concert. And that was the way I was raised. That was what that is less so now. I think it's easier.

I think there are values there that are available. But I don't think that in generations now, that's really being reinforced a lot. I think there are different directions that people are going. And people want to experiment more with, well, maybe I can get by without working. Maybe I can get by with just doing a startup. Maybe I can just go online and be an influencer, yeah.

Yeah, what is that? You know, well, it's just a nicer word for, I think. And even there. But, you know, there are people, but there is a price to that in terms of character. There's a price in terms of building blocks and making... Well, they're going to figure that out. You know what I mean? There's a lot of people from my generation with a lot of tattoos that are going to, at some point,

going to sort of regret. They didn't read all the tattoos. So, but I, in answering the question, that's what I'm seeing. There are a lot of, you know, a lot of places now where instead of, you know, rolling up your sleeves, instead of like showing up five minutes ahead of time, they are looking for oftentimes a way to skate by. And they may not feel that they have that same opportunity. I think they do.

But you've got to find it. Do you, this might be an intellectual leap, but do you see where young people you said it's generational so I agree with that and one thing that I see from my perspective as a Gen Xer is there was an earnestness an earnestness about 70s culture that at the time annoyed me I'll bet because a lot of that was not represented in the real world yes it felt it felt it felt inauthentic yeah now looking back I miss it and what the reason I miss it is because Because even if it wasn't real, and for many people, of course, and we don't have to say who, we know who's been disadvantaged in this system that we grew up in. But the idealism at least kind of gives you like a point on the horizon.

Right. So like I said, when I would watch the Brady Bunch, of course I knew it was a TV show. Right. I knew you were all actors. But I would find myself getting emotional because I was like, this is at least the way it's supposed to be. at least set like an ideal an ideal and and and and and and and and and and that earnestness at the time on not with you guys but in a lot of other things it's sort of graded against me because I was like this is so not my experience you know real life can't be like that and I think that's where the rating thing is unique it's sort of right on the line of of real and not real but when you talk about the continued relationships particularly amongst the kids it was real so maybe we were picking up on some deeper zeitgeist level that we were watching something real. There was an innocence to it, to the stories.

But I think what you're describing is the underlying element that has made the show remain successful. Yeah. There was a chemistry. Oh, yeah. And that's the something you can't fake. That's just something you can't act. That's just something you can't make it up.

You can't write it. It's there, not there. And we had that. Yeah. And still do. When you wrote your book in 92, growing up Brady, was that you're sort of coming out like, okay, I've accepted that in my life this is going to be a key, definitely, thing. Did you, what was the reaction to that public statement?

Does it make sense? You know what I mean? Huge. Huge. Please elaborate, yeah. First, understand all this touring that I was talking about. And by 92, there'd been a lot of it. That's more than a decade.

Fifteen years of touring and crossing the country and hotels, motels, buses, and airplanes and things. So in each one of those cities, I was a guy who promoted the show that I was in for the night or two nights or the week. You go to the radio station. The radio station, the television morning show, the afternoon talk show, whatever was local, the newspaper, the thing. And that's, those are the questions, not, you know, tell us about the sound of music or tell us about, you know, Oklahoma or West Side Story. They want to know about the Brady Bunch. So I talked a lot about it. So that was, okay, it's book time. And I, I, I, I, I'm proud of the book. And it hit a, hit a, hit a nerve. And it became a national bestseller for months. on New York Times list. And it really jumped started my really adult coming out. Yeah.

Because people really understood what my point of view was about doing the show. Yeah. Still had to learn about what their point of view was about seeing it. Sure. But this was my point of view about doing it and growing up in it. And what was it about that point of view that you thought, you think now resonated with people? A sense of humor. A sense of humor about it, about the things that, you know, the way we were presenting things

and about the way they really were, the relationships that we had. You know, I had a crush on Florence Henderson. I had a crush on Marine McCormick. We all had a crush on Marine. Sure. Yeah, we still do in our hearts. You know, just take me back to 18. Yeah, yeah.

Because you've watched this thing happen for most of your life, which is crazy to think about. And we've seen in recent times that the relationship of the public to fame and celebrity has just morphed into something I think that none of us could have anticipated. I'll throw out a recent example. David Gilmore of Pink Floyd's guitar just sold for $14 million. 14 million. Yeah. Jim Ursay of the Colts had bought it maybe. 10 years before something, maybe for 4 million?

Okay, some people have too much money then. Well, but sure, but what I'm saying is there seems to be something happening. The intense interest in memorabilia, the intense interest in what really went on. You said you literally did a podcast with Christopher where you guys went through every episode. Yeah, you know what I mean? So you've watched this morphing relationship to, and you had true selection. and fame when you were a teenager. So it's not that you didn't experience it in a peak form in 1970, whatever.

But I think, would you agree with me that the relationship to fame and maybe because of the internet, it's just turned to this other animal. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it's like it's almost morphing to something that I can't even find a precedent for. Yeah. It's very different. Like if we took your fame when you were 15 years old and we went.

back and looked at the fame of, you know, Jackie Coogan or Jackie Cooper or, you know, Mary Pickford. You know, there's, there were antecedents generationally, but something about the last 15, 20 years. It must be the internet. It's changed the relationship to fame into something completely new. Can you speak on that? I can. There are a couple of things about it. One is the transparency.

I mean, there are just hardly any secrets. You can find out anything about anybody, everything about anybody. and now the scrutiny is way intensified. The large majority of the people that are like, quote, famous now or influence or people now or people, or the game shows, the travel shows, you know, the housewives of the reality. Reality. You know, they're not going to be able to sustain. You're not going to be watching these things and reruns over and over again, I don't think. There's a lot of talk even in the music business that the stars of the 2000s or 2000s are not going to enjoy the same type of success that we're enjoying because the fusion of focus.

So in many ways we're more famous and in many ways those people are less famous even though they might have bigger Instagram numbers, which is kind of a weird phenomenon. But I think it is more of a temporary kind of phenomenon. But you think it maybe is connected to the fact that they're, like, like I said, I watched your show so many times. You know what I mean? It becomes ingrained. Yeah, it's like where maybe the ephemeral aspect of this culture is, the sustain is going to be different. I don't know. I know we're poking around in ambiguity here.

Well, I think that the show, the Brady's, that was kind of woven into the fabric. Sure. And I think that's kind of what you're described. Yeah, absolutely. It became just. We sit at the table and talk about the show. That that kind of comes at us now by the Internet or just this quick bite or this quick bite or from this scroll and that scroll and this little bit. I don't, it doesn't have that opportunity to really be, to really be integrated.

Let me ask a slightly different question. How do you, because you've had fame for most of your life and your entire adult life, how do you view, Fame. Do you view it as a blessing, a curse, a mixed bag, like how do you, how do you, how do you, or celebrity, take it however you want to put it. I think if you want to be famous, own it. I love it. I think it's great. I like conducting my life that way. Yeah. I conduct it openly. It helps to like people for sure, because they can be invasive. So, you know, you want to be able to be able to manage that. It is a skill. And it's, you know, for the people that, really, are really, really shy and that are famous and, you know, movie stars and things like that,

I really feel sorry because it's got to be really hard for them. But, look, you know, let's face it, I didn't, I didn't become an actor, I didn't become a singer, I didn't become a performer to go unnoticed, right? I mean, there are a million other things. You did well. You did well. Yeah. And I don't, you know, and that, that, that, that, that, creative urges burning inside you and then all this like explodes, well, that's part of it. Yeah. You know, this is part of what gives you that license to do it. So, you know, it's the old thing is, you know, paddle the boat in the direction the river is flowing.

Yeah. Right. One of our mutual friends said to ask you this. So I apologize if it's off. Well, maybe I should know which one. Well, you know who I'm talking about. The one with the fog, the one with the foghorn voice. He said, quote, he's like Santa Claus.

Everywhere he goes, he's like Santa Claus. He wants to give out presence. And basically he was citing your benevolence with the public. And he said, ask him about being Santa Claus. Well, so he said something online like if people want you to say groovy. Right. Okay. People usually don't put that, you know, they don't start directing me right away.

like, hey, would you sing clowns never laughed before? Could you just give me a, hey, they're groovy chick? And then I'll go. Well, let's kind of recreate a fan meeting. Sure. And so they'll come in to the space. Are you? Are you?

Are you? And you can see putting that together. And you can see there's kind of that excitement, anticipation. Yeah, insecurity. And then it comes, or maybe it already has. And now they're going into their experience of when they were watching the show. Yeah. So they're transformed, literally transforming.

So you have a 40-year-old woman, she's like now 17, right? That's when she watches a show. And you can kind of see that. And now that becomes that kind of connection. And the heart light goes on, right? Because they're remembering when they're seeing it. At the time that they saw it, and that follows for each successive generation, you know, whenever they were watching. So that's the Santa Claus analogy.

And the character that I was playing, who was Greg? Greg was, you know, a normal, you know, high school student who had this family and took care of them, listened to them, liked them, would argue with them, but it always turned out well, had their back. So that's, I become the big brother, the reliability. Big brother. Yeah. And that's the experience. I let them have that. It doesn't take long.

If you don't mind, because when we went to dinner recently, you were talking about various Brady pitches through the years. Yeah, there were a few. It was making me laugh, so I thought it would be fun to share. Okay.

Well, yeah. We've done a lot. This is the show's been off the air for a while and somebody's got an idea. Let's bring the cast back to do it. Okay, so here are some of the ones you might be familiar. So, you know, we had the cartoon show.

We had the variety show. We had a very Brady Christmas. We had Brady brides when Marsha and Jan got married. And then they, you know, lines down the house. And then we had to keep on your own side. And so then we had the Brady's, which was the serious version of it. In the 90s, we had the movies. I missed the serious one, yeah.

Yeah, that was, well, it was short-lived. Because you can't mess with that. Yeah. Brady's of the Brady's, right? It's a brand. There's a lane there. in your own lane. So, and then there were the movies and books and plays and the, you know, real live

Brady Bunch and there's a music. Okay. So there's a Brady Bunch musical. And there is, the Brady Bunch goes to Washington. Okay. There is the Brady Bunch goes to outer space. That's the one I want to see. Me too.

I've never seen it. I really want to see that one. But there, you know. I'll produce that. If you want, if you need any money. I'm in. Okay. I mean, think about it.

In the internet age, Brady Bunch goes to space. It'd be huge. It would be huge. We're sending up. Because who could not watch it. Right. Quality, who knows.

Right, right. We got CGI now, who knows? And there's Brady Bunch. Yeah. Oh, my God. So, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So, by the way, I wasn't a part of those.

And I believe they've been made. Oh, really? Yeah, no, I was never in them. Oh. I thought you were just talking about people's pitches. I didn't know they actually made. Some of them were made. I think Brady Bunch goes to Washington.

People can, you know, run to their Google. But, yeah, that was made, I think. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. But I know it was pitched. Well, I like Brady Bunch's space. So, because I think it's important to connect the dots here, talk about your, and you say it however you want,

but talk about your earhead of work because I know you're so busy. So like looking down, we're in 2026 as we're filming this. So like for the rest of this year, what's your year you're ahead? Because you're always, you're out there, man. Okay. Well, let me just piggy up from the last six months and then forward because there are things that are being talked about. I don't know what's going to happen with them. And we'll see.

But I can talk to you about what's been very recent and what's current. I continue to work in musical theater. I did a straight play, a comedy. in Kansas City for three months. According to our mutual friend, it was sold out like... It was a wonderful... Huge success.

Yeah, yeah. It's called New Theater in Kansas City. Wonderful production, people, all the shows they do. Is this the empty nester play? Yeah. Not the, yes, the empty nester play called the, where the kids leave and come back, hilarity in scenes.

And then immediately after that, I went to do a reality show. in South Africa called, I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. That sounds like a nightmare. It was fantastic. You loved it. Talk about peak experiences. I'll run it down.

Now, the deal is you've got these trials. They're eating trials. Mostly it's about facing your phobias. Are you eating bugs and stuff? Oh, yeah, and much, much worse. You're stronger man than I. Well, and you do what you've got to do. But, heights, fear of heights, fear of being buried, reptiles,

you know, in confined spaces, being blindfolded, you know, all these things to win food for the camp and all of this kind of a thing. This was a big experience. It's in the jungle of Africa, outdoors, no internet, no cell phones, no distractions, no books, no journals, no watch. We didn't know time. No maid. We didn't know. We had no oven. We cooked on on coals.

You know, we would build the fire, did our own laundry, had to take out the dunny bucket every year. For a month, we're doing this. And then in selection, we're being going out and doing these trials, which can we say cali urine and pig brain and things like that for. And it's a TV production. Yeah, of course. There's probably moments where you're sitting there for three hours

where they're getting the cameras ready. And if you're not actually off doing that, you're back at camp doing weather. no distractions. So you're getting to know people. And a very intense and deep level in a very short amount of time. Anybody else on this show with you that we would know? I don't, I was not aware. They were Australian influencers and comedians and some sports people, a great, great group of people, a couple of actors, but I just didn't happen to know their work. Bonded with them wonderfully. And I liked All of them. And I love Australia. Anyway. But this was, the life was, okay, what do you do when you're by yourself? And there's literally nothing to actually do or that you have to do. And you're in the middle of the animals. And we had lots of them. And we had people in the perimeter that were chasing, you know, the ones that could be dangerous. We had cobras come into the campsite and they have to be. We were, we had a micro.

phone and we were told if we see, you know, a snake, any kind of snake, much less a cobra, stop and say, snake, snake, right? And don't move or back up. And then they come in and take them out. So that was life and we're waking up with the baboons and the monkeys that were there and the birds that were there. Fent, and to be offline for all of that. Excellent. How do you pitch this to your wife? Not easy. And that was my, that was, that was a month of not speaking to. to her. Right. Or anybody else outside.

But the production would talk to her, let her know that I was okay and that kind of stuff. But I, but we didn't have any outside. But you know, what a reset. What a great reset. You're a strong man. Oh, pig brain's not so bad when you get past the first couple of bites. I'm a vegan. It's the glass of cow urine you have to walk out.

I wonder if cow urine, if that goes against the vegan lifestyle, right? I don't think so because it's processed. Yeah, you're, you're saying. Yeah, you're good. I'll grab you, someone. I mean this in a kind and respectful way, because I've just turned 59 at the time we're taping this. Of course, like anybody else, you look forward to your life as you're getting older and you think, how active am I going to be? What am I going to stay focused on? What's going to motivate me? So I thought to ask you, because you've been in the arts for so long, like, what gets you out of bed?

Like, what gets you like, is it just work or is it just staying busy? Like, what keeps you going? Well, I feel a lot less pressure on myself. I found, ironically, maybe, that when I started saying no, I had a lot more things to say yes to, but there's choice. But I'm enthusiastic. I have a lot of energy, and I love to work. I love to take on projects. I like, and I love where I live.

And getting up, I live on a lake and I have a lake boat, you know, like a pontoon, tritune. The classic. Yeah, to go out and be in the water. And that motivates me, you know, to go out and do and be active and involved. I have a great set of friends where I now live, more friends than I ever had, you know, in Los Angeles. Smaller community. Yeah. Very close to count on them.

I'm not saying you're the mayor there, but you're close to the mayor over there at this point. No politics for me. Well, you know what I mean. Yeah, I do know. Yeah. They certainly celebrate in Bramson, people who want to be there and bring and because they're proud of it. Like when I grew up, we were proud of, I grew up in a little community called the Pacific Palisades.

I was born in Santa Monica. I mean, and we celebrated that. What's the name in Bramson, the name of the family that is kind of do like a family show? The Haygood's. Yeah. The Haygood family. Yeah. I've met them and they're so nice.

And I really enjoy their stuff. And then adopted. I'm the 11th Haygood. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. And they came to see me play when I was in the area. Great people. And my, my, my best friends.

My best friends. Please send them my regards. There's wonderful people. I think you just did. Well, coming from you, it means more. Yeah, I get to like it. I found this clip, you know, poking around, as you can imagine, if I go digging on you on something like YouTube. most of it is just Brady Bunch, Brady Brunch, Brady Brins.

So I was trying to find something that I could kind of hang my hat on that I felt personal to me. And I thought this was interesting. So I found a clip of you and Maureen singing on the Mike Douglas show. I think this would have been 1974, somewhere around there, 77. I can't remember. I think you would have been all 23 years old. Probably about 77. Yeah.

And you sing a song by Roger Nichols and Paul Williams. Paul, I know a little bit. We've written some songs together. And so I love Paul as a writer. And you sing a song called I Won't Last a Day Without You. And what struck me about it is it's almost like three impressions at the same time because it's past, present, and future. In the past, if I'd saw that on TV when I was a kid, I would have been like, this schmaltzy Broadway Vegas music. Don't want to hear it.

I love Schmaltzy and Vegas music. Grew up with it. Well, God bless. The second impression I have is like, wow, this is a really good song. And then, of course, I dig around. I realize it's Paul and Roger. When I worked with Paul recently, he gave me one of the greatest compliments I've ever gotten. Paul and I worked together a song, each song we wrote in about an hour and a half.

And at the end of writing the second song, he said, I like working with you, remind me working with Roger. He said, fast. I thought this is such a deep compliment from a songwriter. That is nice. Like you get it like we're in this together. It means too that you're aligned creatively. It's crazy. I mean, powerful.

I've not written a lot of songs with other people. I've written songs for other people or I've been asked to come in and help with something. But to just sit down with somebody like Paul, that's an incredible history and say, here's a blank piece of paper, go. You know, he was a guest star on our variety show. I did know that. I didn't know that. You know, without that variety, I have a relationship. I've talked about several times and that's why because we had that connection.

Yeah, it's beautiful. But that is a great compliment. But the last impression I had is, and it's similar to what I was saying before, but I think it's important in this context to bring up again, is I'm watching this now as a 59-year-old guy with three kids. And, you know, of course, now that I know you a little bit personally, and I'm looking at you as a young man on stage. And, you know, and it's like, how can I explain it?

It's the fact that you're standing there and you're singing your heart out. She's singing your heart out. It's not about being perfect. It's, we're in this moment. And that relatability is something that I couldn't have appreciated when I was a kid would have value to me today. The idea of this kind of constant need in American culture that everything be perfectly tuned and perfectly, you know, everything perfect, perfect, perfect. And I think what I think I'm not trying to speak for you, but I think what I get from your life

and what I get from my own impressions of your work is being present is the ultimate aspect in this equation that just showing up and just throwing your heart into it. Like you said, work hard and just let the chips fall where they may. That is something that AI will never replace. That's it, right? and you're right. You can see it and you can feel it. That's when I'm trying to get out. I felt it. I felt it. And I think, you know, it is a working artist in this, in this century, as you are too, it's almost become this thing where it's like the new punk rock rebellion is to say, I don't want perfect. I don't want your version of your fake version of reality isn't that attractive. Because I, ultimately it's anti-human.

Yes. It's not to say AI is the devil. It's the human need to play God. And only God can represent perfect. Our aspiration is to be perfect, but that doesn't mean we are perfect. Or even if it's just pretense. Yeah. Even if it's faked imperfection or contrived imperfection, it doesn't.

It doesn't. And I love that authenticity and presence does. I love that you're on the Mike Douglas shirt. I do too, several times. So cool. And yeah, the whole circuit, John Davidson. That's kind of in a way what I'm, my aspirations are for this show is to ultimately turn it into that. Well, I think you're well on your way.

Thank you. On your way. I believe the, there's a room in this culture for genteel, respectful conversations about things that are interesting and then ultimately add in music. So yeah, hopefully a year from now, if I can expand the show, we're doing a song together. Nice. Right. I'm in. I am in.

I appreciate you. Thank you. I'm going to, I'm going to. I'm going to hold you to that. Okay, just a few more questions. Because you've had such a unique American life, is there anything that you, like a pearl of wisdom that you feel you can share?

You know what I'm asked a little differently, and I think it's basically the same question, you know, is there any regret? Regrets. Actually, I mean it differently, and I'm not trying to correct you. I'm saying is, like, what you want, like, if people had stood in your shoes

and done everything you've done, every crazy thing, every, you know what I mean, you just were eating bugs, right? You know what I mean? Like you've had this very interesting ride. And loved it. That's what I'm saying. I'm shocked. And I'm a rock star, allegedly. Okay. So is there any pearl of wisdom that you can share? Like, is there a guiding principle? I said it before. I told you it would come up again and I mean it, gratitude. Being grateful for that which is in front of you. Yeah. And taking it with an attitude in a positive way. Yeah. God bless. Now I want to give you my regret.

Okay, please. Because it's the same thing, I think. Okay. It's a different shade of it. Please. Please, you tell me. I wish that I had not been as serious about everything that I did at the time. But that's at the root of your earnestness.

It is. But there's a way to do that and still apply yourself and still be, discipline and still do that with the knowledge that you're on a ride. Yeah. It's a journey. And I thought if, you know, my stakes were... Okay, what was the mountain top for you? Well, I'm there.

Oh, okay. Is being comfortable, happy? Yeah. If you don't know it at the time, you miss it. My stakes were, if I didn't do this just so... my career would be over. Yeah. So I always had that kind of a stake.

It was all nothing, all nothing. And it was just a, it was just a continuum. Oh, I really screwed that up. Oh, that isn't what I wanted it to be. Next time I'm going to approach it this. Hey, that worked pretty well. Get on the ride, stay on the ride, love the ride. It's the only one we get.

Okay. Last question. I mean, this isn't your home, but in a way it is. It feels like it. It feels like it. It's sort of crazily beautiful in its own Brady way, right?

Yeah. I mean, we're in a real house that started in a sound stage. And here we are. Well, maybe this is a good lesson about life that we're talking about and presence because it is practical house, a practical house,

but it is also artificial. And, you know, as good and as warm and as nostalgic as this feels, when I go home, I'm home. Yeah. Well, maybe the blessing is you have two homes, you see. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, very. Thank you, Bill.