The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Dale Bozzio | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

In this lively and revealing conversation, Billy Corgan sits down with Dale Bozzio, lead singer of the hightly influential 1980s band Missing Person, to explore the remarkable journey that shaped her creative life. Dale candidly traces her start as a fearless spirit raised in Boston, recalling how Frank Zappa discovered her, encouraged her bold vocal style, and effectively jumpstarted her career. She reflects on her near-fatal accident, time spent as a Playboy Bunny, her relationships with boundary-pushing figures like Prince, navigating a male-dominated industry and her fierce determination to stay true to her own artistic voice rather than conform to what others expected.Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I'm not the original anybody because first of all, I came before Lady Gaga, so I don't know how I could be the original lady anybody, you know, number one, okay? So let's get real here. I am who I am today because of Frank Zappa. That is the truth. Did you like being a Playboy bunny? I did. And I was a billions bunny.

I shot pool. And how's your pool? Superior. I passed out in 76 and woke up in 77. You got to remember, I fell 40 feet out of the window. You were in a coma for a year? Half a year. Life support.

I'm here with one of my favorite singers of all time, Miss Dale Bozio. Hello. I bought this book not long ago. I love this book. You put a lot of your heart in this book, no. Are you asking me that? Yeah. Or telling me that.

I'm asking because I feel like your heart's really in. Well, let's put it. Yes. I agree. You're a fellow Pisci. like me. Oh, really? You're March 2nd. Right. I'm March 17. So I understand your pain. That's where we're going to start this interview. Okay. Well, now we're on. But as a fan of yours, I always feel you always led with your heart in your music. Is that accurate? Yes. Or my pain. Is that okay, but is that how you are

in life? Because that's how I feel, but I don't know that. Yes. Yes. So this book? I think you know more than you say you do now that we know that we're not birthdays. We're doing. We're doing Pisces. And we're coming from is a little level. I love that shirt. Oh, thank you. Yeah, you look very, you look fantastic. You look fantastic. Well, I know I had to dress up for you. Well, thank you very much. You always had true style. It wasn't, I tell you, the thing about that style and those plexiglass we're not, we're not, the, the plexiglass blobs are on like page four of these notes. Okay, whatever. I'm with you. We're starting with music. What about it? Um, well, your most recent album, Hollywood Lie?

Right? Is, yes. So I was curious on that because I felt like you were kind of going for, I don't want to say a retro sound because it's not fair to call your sound retro because you invented that sound. But did you purposely want to make kind of an 80s-ish sounding missing person's record? Does it make sense? That's a big question.

Well, they're all big questions. I mean, the music is one thing, the attitude's another, the process is, one and all and why you do it is another reason. Yeah. So for me, pick one of those. So for me, the music, the reason that came out that way was I don't take the intention of sounding any which way for any reason. I'm a non-singer.

I come from... I'm going to argue with you about that, by the way. Okay, well, I developed into something from nothing. Right, but that's why you're a great singer. Well, so I just sort of self-taught in a facet. And so with the music of how that Hollywood lie ended up, was that I said, I want to focus on being simple and synchronize my impression of my vocal,

of how that will be taken, what impression that is going to set on you when you hear me say these words. Okay. So you felt that musical backdrop was... I sing to you. I wanted now, after all I've done, I mean, that's why.

I mean, only because not because I'm a new band and I'm looking for hit number one banged top, you know, got to have a riff and kick and, you know, what's the glitch? No, that's not the story. I have to succumb to people like you that would say, oh,

What? What does this mean? What does this mean? Well, that's what I'm asking you. Right. So that's, I guess I did the right thing then. Ah, you made me ask the question, which is what you wanted. Yeah, thank you very much. I'd appreciate that. I'm curious, we're going back here to the beginning. So you were born in Boston in 1955? Mm-hmm. Yes. Catholic family?

Yes. How did I know that? I just can feel it. because I'm polite. Italian? Roman. Okay. Roman Catholic? Yeah.

Me too. My great-grand uncle of the seventh generation died acting Pope in the Vatican in Rome. My father is Roman. And when I went to Rome on tour with Frank Sapa, he got paperwork for me to. be allowed to go into the Vatican to see all the frozen cryogenically frozen popes because one of them was my name consulvi my maid my father's name is a Roman name called Solvi yeah and that I got because it was on my passport consulsi so you saw the frozen Pope's all the frozen Pope is it wild

Terry Bozio came with me and Terry says can they can we take a Polaroid I'm like Terry we're serious right we went in with scops on we say get the scarp up over his nose. It's pumps like this, shoo, sing. And all these popes are above your head, like eye level, up in these clear caskets, dressed to the nines in their puba.

And all these seats. Do you see your ancestor? Yeah. And I stood right next to them. And so we leave the, we see, and we do all this stuff, you know, paperwork, a sign ticket and get out and all the stuff. Yeah.

And consoling the pope is all over the vows. Vatican, he's in the walls, the whole nine yards, right? So we go back to Frank's, the hotel in Frank's Zappas, to Terry, well, does she look like the Pope? Terry, because she looks exactly like him. She looks exactly like them. They stood next to each other. I couldn't believe it.

Oh, goodness. And that's what was like the biggest joke, because prior to going on that tour, I had fallen out of a window, but I had made Joe's garage. I was never in Frank's band. I only made records with Frank. So because I made Joe's garage with Frank,

then he was thinking of doing all this other stuff, so he took me on the tour with him. Ah, this is 70... It's like 79, 78, 78. My father, by the way, my father was a musician. He was obsessed with that record. I heard that record a lot. Oh, no, really?

And my dad was a stoner, drug dealer type who would listen to the Sampbell. Was his middle name Dale? Yes. Did you know that? I did. I noted that. I noted that.

William Dale Corbyn? Yeah. That's a very, very, very, very staunch, very, do you know, is Dale Gaelic or is it? Dale only really means a small valley. That's it. That's what it means. But it's, I personally was named after Dale Evans, the woman.

That was the singer-Cowboy, very famous. back then in the 50s. Yeah. So that's what... It was kind of the paragon of virtue. And that was sort of what... So young Catholic girl growing up at Boston?

Family religious or just kind of in name only? No, my family, my father, wasn't that he believed in God and thought God was watching us upstairs? He thought God lived on the third floor of our house.

But he met me at the breakfast table with a 45 and a glass of whiskey. So I don't know what happy he was with that. And, you know, it seemed all right to me. I mean, it seemed like the normal thing to do. Right. You know, he cooked me a five-cost breakfast, lunch was waiting. Dinner was like so you could smell it down the block.

What did your daddy do? My father was a builder. Okay. A builder and a carpenter for a lot of really different. No. Oh, so non-union? Yeah. Was that hard in Boston?

Never paid a day in tax. Oh, okay. Now I feel your flow now. Yeah. Yeah. And my father had a semi full of chest of field cigarettes and lucky strikes in the driveway. And the other semi. And some friends.

Yeah. And the other semi was full of whiskey. Yeah, yeah. So no training as a singer, yeah, right? I mean, did you sing when you were young, though? Yeah, I used to fake it and sing the pie to pie. in the window. I'm the pipe,

piper, follow me? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you're saying along to the radio type thing. Yes. But you never saw yourself as a singer. No, I wanted to be a movie star.

Okay. And who did you admire as a movie star? Veronica Lake, Jean Harlow. Have you met the guy here who's the Gene Harlow expert? No. I could introduce you to him. A friend of mine is one of his friends.

He has the greatest Gene Harlow collection. I think he has her car. He has all this crazy stuff of Jean Harlow's. Oh, Lord. He even has when she would do her makeup and like they would, you know, like a woman will do like the kiss her lips. Yeah. But he has the original tissue. Yeah.

Oh my God. So if you want me to introduce you to this gentleman. Okay. He's like the leading Jean Harlow expert in the world and wrote a book on her. Oh, that's insane. Yeah. Oh, my Lord. So Gene Harlow.

Oh, Veronica Lake. You know. The Peekaboo, right? Yeah. I just, I admired all those, though, the movie. Did you want to be like a film noir type of actress? I watched movies with my father till it went off on the youth, on the school, when I was growing up, because we didn't have the availability that you have now of what this movies.

So what was it about? What I saw, well, the black and whites with these women that all had blonde hair that appeared to me with these skinny little dresses on, had like fancy cars and fur coast and we're always smiling and drinking and I thought okay that's what I want to be okay so did you like girl groups I mean what was the kind of music you did like to be honest with you I'm really not a musically based person of life I'm more not a music listener movies no I watch many movies I could digest 10 to 12 movies if I had to. I have so many movies. I watch more

movies than I could I have to catch up. My wife laughs because I only watched like 30s movies. That's me. Well, listen, I watched the 40 movies. Forties movies. You're more 40s, yeah. Yeah, I'm more 40s movies because when I was growing up in the 55s, I was watching the movies that were made prior to.

Yeah. You got to remember the movies I'm watching. What are you favorite 40s movies? I can't even remember off the top of my head right now, you know. You got to remember I felt 40 feet of window. Okay, but I... What year did you fall out the window? I was 21. It was 19th, September, listen, I wrote the book for three reasons. Let's, let me just clear this up with you. Yeah, this book. We're plugging now. That you keep asking me these like, in, like, in leading questions. We're just getting started. To my life. But the reason I wrote that book is for one of the reasons on

September 10th, 1976, I fell out of a... window from downtown L.A., Los Angeles of Holiday Inn. Now is the story that somebody was trying to come in and hurt you or rape you? They were going to kill me, basically. That's what the guy told me. No, it was a security god, and he told me that he was going to kill me, and I forget that word, and I suppose you went for help, right? So I ran for help, open the window.

And you are a little thing. Well, it's just a little girl. I had, you know, I had actually gold cowboy boots on. I was just regularly watching Johnny Carson. My cousin had just had an asthma attack. Anyway, make a long story short. I fall out the window. This was just weeks after I finished making Joe's garage.

One, two, three, and four. Now, my life ends. I slip into a coma. I wake up in Frank Sapper's living room. Comer again, ship me to Boston life support. I wake up a year older. You were in a coma for a year? Half a year. Life support.

Were you in and out or you were out? Oh, no. Out. So for six months, you're out. Oh, no. And eight, close to, yeah. Do you remember anything from being out or were you just out? No, I was out for a long time. But I'm saying, were you dreaming during this period? Or you're just out? Out. Wow.

Flank. So it's a miracle you're here. Life supports, medicine. Well, yeah, I broke my kneecap, broke my floating ribs, and split my head open. 52 stitches and really a miracle to be alive. Wow. Pretty much. And so I wanted that stated to the world more so

and then recorded in my own words to say what happens. Is that where the window song? Yeah, it's where all the songs really come from. That's when I wake up and I write Destination Unknown. Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, really? Is that what happened?

you clearly black out and that's it. And there's nothing. Nothing. And when I woke up, it all came back, and it came back really fast. I see. It's smashingly. And for six months, I was blind because of the concussion and the whole coma, blah, blah.

And so then Frank Zappa rang my mother's home phone on a clear blue sky and said, we're going on a tour to Europe. Want to come with me tomorrow? I'm like, this is my home phones, right? and I said, yes, Frank, okay, I'll go. I basically think it was 77 now, because that's when I woke up.

I passed out in 76 and woke up in 77. And so Frank called. You weren't married at this point yet, right? No, no, I only knew Terry at the beginning. At the beginning, we had a relationship. And Terry always said it should have been a one-night stand and, you know, weren't they all? Sounds like a drummer.

Yeah, exactly. You know, really doesn't surprise me. You know, no, I love Terry Bozio. I love Terry Bolzio. I told him then he would be one of the greatest drummers in the world. Had to convince him night after night after night after night. There's some things that just a woman knows. I told them.

But I had an incredible time with Terry, you know. So what happened then, Terry, I met Terry and Frank in the airport in New York. And the next day, my mother thought I lost my mind. I'm on morphine. I'm like, you know, your headaches. I go, yeah, well, no more cat scans for me, babe. See you later. I got to go.

And I just said, I'm not going to die. Everything's all right. And I left. And that was it. And Frank just said, come on, let's go. Go to Europe. And we get to every single lunch dinner. The waitress, man, would come.

You say, okay, this is Dale. Now, she just fell 40 feet out of a window. And she wants shrimp and cookies. Let's get that. and the whole band would sit there and go, he's not doing this, he's not literally, and he did every. Did you want shrimp and cookies?

Yeah, I did. I did. Why shrimp and cookies? I was the only thing I could think of. He put me on the spot so many times. He said, what do you want to eat? What's your favorite things to eat? I go, I don't know, Frank, shrimp and cookies.

And I could limit down. I swear to God, I swear, by the time we get to the end of the tour, it was like three months later. How skinny were you at this? The waitress came and the whole band, she wants f***ing cookies.

It was hysterical. I guess she had to be there. No, it sounds, well, it was insane. It sounds Zapp-esque. I had the most impressionable times with Frank. Frank threads the whole book.

That's why I'm telling you this story. Frank saved my life. Frank made me an icon. I am who I am today because of Frank Zappa. That is the truth. There's nothing more than that. Outside of the musicality in you, which I want to talk about, what did Frank see in you? Well, that's something else. Okay, but I want to get to that. But what did Frank see in you as a person, you think? You could hear the timbre in my voice when I speak. You, you, hear that edge. That's a Frank heard. No, but I want to say what he saw in you as a person. That's what he said.

He said, I hear it. Well, of course he would hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Oh. And you say you are hysterical. And that's it. So you feel like he understood you.

The day I met him, I climbed in, I climbed up three flights of the Orphium Theater in Boston, the fire escape. And I climbed in the window and I opened the door. Frank was standing there. And he looked at me and he went, how did you get in here? I said, Frank, I climbed up the fire escape and I climbed into the bathroom window. Like a Beatles song?

He said, you didn't do that. I said, there's a bathroom. I did. He knew it was the bathroom because it was a backstage bathroom. It was one bathroom, one window and you couldn't get in and out of there except through the fire escape.

He started laughing hysterically. He laughed hysterically. Why did you climb in through the windows? Because I had to see the concert. Were you a Zappa fan? I was a Zappa fan at the time. Were you one of those Stoner's Zappa fans? Yes, I was a hippie originally.

So I was completely into Frank's audity. And it wasn't, and it was either that or Taboris, because I loved them seeing disco. The soul band, yeah. Yeah, I'm on, what was their big hit? Disco queen. Okay. Heaven must be missing an angel.

Yeah. Tavaris. Yeah. I'm the big. fan ever, you know. So, but then, you know, I switch to the other side and get a little kind of like, you know, interesting. And I listen a little more to Frank. Yeah. And go, he's really playing it himself. Yeah. You know, and like, oh, okay. So anyway, so anyway, as it went on, my relationship with Frank grew, because by the time, that was 16 when I met him through the dressing room.

a window. 16 years old. Yes. Now, he asked me out to the dinner. I go out to the dinner. He asked me into the hotel room. I say, Frank, I can't go in the hotel room. I don't even drive his license. I'm driving this car. I can't go to your party. I'm 16. He said, you're right. You can't go to the party. And he kissed me on the forehead. And he walked away and said, goodbye. I'll see you again. I just looked at him, lit up a joint, and drove away crying. thinking, that's not possible. I was 16 that day. And he was doing some big tour at the time,

12-piece orchestra. I end up being 21. I'm in California, and I'm in the Playboy magazine. I'm Playboy Bunny of the Year for Boston. I stop you there. How do you become Playboy Bunny of the Year? Hefner has to pick you.

So you were just picked out of a lineup. He gets all these photographs because he's the editor, and he picks who thinks. Did you like being a Playboy Bunny? I did. There was a bit of prestige to it back down in Boston. Yeah. You wore the costume with the tail. Yes, I did.

Do you have pictures of you like this? I do. I do. And I was a billions bunny. I shot Pool. And how's your pool? Superior. Superior.

you. Absolutely. You used to like take the marks? I won every game. That was it. I think I made more money then than I do now. Pool shark. I never knew you were pool. My brother taught me how to play pool down the basement. He was nine years older than me and he was a pool shark. I wasn't going to tell anybody that.

That was the game. That's the gimmick. Let him think they're going to beat the little girl up in pool. I knew everything about the sticks and the da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Do you still play? I haven't played lately, but I can, you know. It's interesting, though, right? When your childhood mechanisms, I was still just still a kid. I was hired to be a Playboy Bunny the day I turned 18.

Right. So I was a bunny from 18 to 21. The time I got to 21, Hefner called me to come to California. Right. When I came to California, Hefner wouldn't come downstairs from his balcony. And I kind of flipped out because I'm from Boston and I have an edge and an attitude. And I said, I have a previous engagement. I got to go.

And I walked out of the mansion. And that was my day that I was going to be Valentine at the front door, move in, be a centerfold, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I walked out. I had like this anxiety attack. Turned around and walked out. Grab my Playboy magazine from the secretary and left. And I said, okay, keep going. There's no turning back.

I turned on. I was driving a firebird. It was a 19, it was the 1972. Had you driven out in the car? Five speed. We're caro seats. Yes. Oh, so you driven out then?

Me, drove it with two Playboy bunnies in the back seat. Navy blue ragtop down, black interior, five speed. Always styling. I blew from Boston to Hefner's house. Now, he wouldn't talk to me. Yeah. And I was a little bit off. I peeled out of that fucking mansion at about a fucking 190.

You know, I was so mad. I couldn't even shift the car. I was going so fucking fast. I pulled out of the air and I went, oh, that's really great. Where are you going to go now? You know, I have this other side of me. I really do.

I have this like Dale over here shoulder going, I know, I'm like that commercial on TV. You do it? It'd be good if it was Dale Autry, actually. Yeah, like, yeah. Like, there's a couple of things. Like on the horse. Like, you know, you're going the wrong way.

I kind of get that attitude, you know. Like, I just, if things don't go my way, not that I don't mean it, but I exit because I, it could be dangerous. I see things differently than people do. And in an extreme emergency, you want me. You want me. Well, you've survived death. Well, I will go. I'm like the fireman that runs.

into the fire. Okay. Like the fool of men, firemen laugh about that. Is this when you end up going to find Frank Sapa? Is this? Yeah. This is what happened.

That's what happened. That same day. Yeah. It was 15 minutes later. I'm on SIR, studio instrumental lofts in Hollywood. But why'd you go there? Because I had a guitar player

that was just up and coming and he told me he was going to be there if anything went wrong. And he lived on North Orange Drive in California. And I was sleeping on his couch. Okay. The day before I was supposed to move into the mansion. Got it.

Okay. So now I get to this lot. I'm on E. I'm in black leather head to toe. I'm this little blonde girl. You know, I can't hear from Boston. I get like my black leather and jack in the back guy. I didn't know it was going to be 95 degrees.

Sure. I walk on the lot. I hear this music playing, and I know it's Frank. Because I know Frank's music. I look over the door. The door has a sign. on in big letters, if you value your life, do not open this door. So you open the door?

Open the door. There's Frank. He's looking at me. He says, he says, did he recognize you? Yeah. He says, what are you doing here? I mean, Frank, do you recognize me? He goes, yeah, you just open the door.

Yeah, from Boston. What are you doing here? I go, well, now, that was 16. he met. Yes, this is five years later. Yeah. I'm like, Frank, you remember me? He goes, yeah, what are you doing? What are you doing? I'm just standing here in black leatherhead to do holding a playboy magazine. The last time I saw him, I had

green hair with a miniskirt and a mariboububed top on, right? With these spiked shoes. He goes, okay, I go, well, I just left you happiness house. I don't have a job. I have no money. The gas is on E. I'm not parked in a good space and I'm really hungry, Frank.

And he... Is the band all sort of sitting there? It's the band's right there. It's Eddie Jobson. Okay? Yeah. Is it Eddie Jobson? Over there is Patrick over and a Terry Bousel.

Damn right, dear right. And I'm standing me like I'm sweating because it's like such an incredible story you know like I go I'm right there like I'm right there and I go I go Frank I look at the whole thing

I go really sorry to interrupt Frank I kind of like stop walking backwards he goes no no wait no wait you need a job I go yeah I do Frank I need a job I said I've got to go call my mother I got to get Western Union

you know I get to go back to Boston you know I go here. He said, you drove here? Yeah, I drove here. He said, okay, well, okay, there's an apple over there, and I'm going to put you on the payroll tomorrow. You're going to be Mary. You're going to be Mary from Joe's garage, and I needed Mary, and you're my Mary. And I went, but Frank, I came to Hollywood to be an actress. A movie star. Sorry, movie star, not actress. I don't know how to sing. He started laughing hysterically. He fell down on the floor laughing on his knees,

like literally holding his head, okay? It was the most incredible scene you've ever seen in your fucking life. Frank Zabber just literally laughing his fucking ass off, like literally. And those three over there didn't know what the fuck was going on. Right? They thought I was this girlfriend, right? So Frank goes, okay, you're on the payroll. He's an apple.

He's telling them, Mary's here. It's Mary. He's, like, so happy, you know? You never sang professionally a day in your life? No, I'm like, Frank, Frank, you don't understand, Frank. Frank, I don't even know how to sing. I'll do housekeeping, and he just kept laughing. He just kept laughing.

And I'm like, okay. He said, it's $500 a week. You can't refuse. It's insurance and dental. and I'm looking at him like that's not a movie gun dragged there, you know? I love you, babe, but I don't know

about that, right? So I'm like, okay, Frank. All right, Frank. See you later. You know, what? You know what I mean? I just walked in out of glibble sky. He goes, no, no, wait.

Terry Bozio is going to take you to the studio tomorrow morning. You sleep at Terry's tonight. I go, I sleep at Terry's tonight. Okay, all right. Talk to you later. Got to go. So we even found your future husband.

Right, exactly. And right then and there, Terry and I became an item. Did you know right away about Terry? I know. I was going along with the program. No, I get that, but I'm saying sometimes women have a way of knowing something about a man before the man figures it out. I know, no, no.

I knew that I really appreciated him, and I knew that he was so talented. he was I could I could he just and that and he was a precious human being um I wasn't really planning I wasn't planning to get married I wasn't planning on any of those things I wasn't planning on being in a rock band really that's what's so beautiful about the story you met Terry in In 1976? Yes. And you were married in 79? Yes.

Parents approve? They loved him. Oh. But my parents were separated when I was very small. I had a very strange family. My mother was very odd. And my father, they were separated. and my father dedicated his life to me

and took care of me and she went on with her life to do whatever it was that she thought that she had to do. So you didn't really grow up with your mother? No. From what age on? Nine. Mine was four. Really?

Yeah. Where did your mother go? Insane asylum. Oh, okay. So you understand the heavy tone that lays on your heart in your life. Very much so.

Okay, so well then, okay, well you can relate to this. Not that I'm trying to top your story. No, no. But my mother, I used to think that my grandmother was my mother. And my mother, my grandmother died at 62. But my mother was always so wild and crazy and she would make amends for my mother the whole time. And I didn't know until I found my mother's death certificate

that my mother was born in a prison because my grandmother was 15 when she delivered my mother and they took her from Canada to Lawrence, Massachusetts, and they put her in a prison, so she would deliver the baby. And then they took the baby away from her and put my mother in a nunnery. And my mother grew up with nuns

until she escaped. She escaped when she was 16 and went haywire, ran into my father on the corner in the middle of a snowstorm in Boston, he was 20 or so for 18 years older than her, he picked her up off the curb and saved her a little ass. Right. And took her home and took care of her.

Are your parents still with us? No, my father was born in 1910. He'd be 114 today. It's possible. Yeah, and my mother passed away at 85. She just kind of just coughed and stated some incredible poems while she was going to die

and she was more like a butterfly than a mother. She was always, I remember her just dancing and singing and thinking that she was the movie star. Yeah. And she was really beautiful and blonde

and blue, ice blue eyes. I write a song about her on my new record. It's called Ice Blue Eyes. And how cold she is. Right. And how fame isn't so much just fame, but fame is a word that makes you burn inside for something you long for that you think you want

that you don't have. That's true. And you'll never really know until you get it. And then you find out it isn't anything. I went through the same thing. Right? And that's how I saw her. I see.

Not me. That's how I saw her. Did she, when you were successful, did she? Yes, she came back. But I'm saying, was she jealous? Was she supportive? Was she... She couldn't tell. You know, she's such a mystery to me.

I want to be honest with you, you know, because I hear what you just told me. And I have sympathy for that. But I know where your mind goes, you know. I know you're trying to keep it all straight. And you're going to have one eye open and keep watching behind your shoulder and behind your back. I know that attitude. I know that feeling and I know that despair almost when there's nobody there but yourself. Yeah.

You know, and that's it. And you always end up with yourself. But I feel that from you and I feel that that's why you, to me, you reap kindness and like caring and, you know, you want to fix things. I do want to fix things. So you're in love and you're married. What age were you married at? I'm thinking 27. Okay, somewhere in there, yeah.

Yeah. So did you feel like, because of your family circumstance, did you feel like you found sort of the right situation for you, or was it very much as we can get into life, you're on this journey and that's... Mm-mm. Okay, tell me. Never got that.

Love, don't know. I know. I say it a lot because I know the most important thing or two important things are saying to someone to care for them is to say I love you and that I'm proud of you. And so I do that because I'm incorrigible because I know how hard it is to find courage. You have to go so deep down into the dirty rinds of your past to be courageable. And so I tried to give people a little piece of something that maybe they don't have to even look any further for. And they can kind of go, oh, she loves me.

She doesn't even know me. But I said it. And when you say it, you kind of can't take it back. I'm not trying to be gossipy, but I'm just trying to understand the dynamic because here in this relationship with this savant drummer. And I know Terry a little bit. He's definitely his own person. You know what I mean? Terry's a genius. Terry's a genius. As they come, Terry is an incredibly calculated genius,

and he is one of the top ten greatest drums in the world. Wouldn't argue with him. He learned how to play the drum on hitting a dime, and he does not click his drumsticks. He is beyond... Oh, no, he's a battery. Yeah, Savant. Absolutely, absolutely. I know a lot of geniuses, and I kind of reflect most of my relationships have been with genius-type people and I understand their

fragile. I want to talk about your genius. I know there's the sort of thing about where Frank encourages you in the band and stuff, but what was the sort of the organic part of this? Like, you're married to this great musician. At what point does it start to become a thing

like, we should have a band? Was something you joked about or? There was no joke. No, because my wife is on me to start a band. Okay. Well, that's, Great. Yeah, it's fine.

And I'm happy to do a ban. But I'm saying couples have a way of talking about things that sometimes they happen. Sometimes they don't. Yeah. No, it wasn't like that at all. Actually, it wasn't like that. It was more between Warren and I, Cucarulo. Okay.

And Warren was in the Zappa world. Warren was hired by Frank. Right. Now. So Warren is just working with Frank. And so Terry goes on tour with UK. Right. Was that Phil?

Who was he? That's John Wetton and Eddie Jobson. Yeah. Okay, right. Three of them. They go to Europe and they do this tour. Did you like that music?

It was super fondly. Yeah, no, super high-fi. Yeah, I loved it. You know, I do like that music. I prefer music with no vocals, personally. Really? Yes, yes. In a strange sense of the way.

It really disturbs me when I have to hear music to movies. I get distracted. and I'm listening I'm not, I'm listening to the beat. I see. I'm, yeah. I get you. Can't, can't get it, can't lose it, can't.

I've got a song 24-7 in my head. It's how, you know, I'm on a major tape loop. Tape, funny, funny thing. I like to hear that tape loop. Well, the funny thing is, I'll tell you this really quick, but I meet Prince in this disco, tramps, okay? I see him over there,

and I just walk in the front door with my friends, just casual, you know, going to hang out. See, Michael, oh, my God, it's Prince over there. So I walked directly over to him. I poke him on the nose. You see his back, like, there's two big bodyguards go, what? He had the biggest bodyguards I've ever seen. Right, well, 10 times.

There was the one guy that was this wide. Yeah, bigger than him, for sure. And I'm like, oh, I said, I'm sorry. I just wanted to ask you to dance. You're the best dancer in the place. He turned around and the body guy goes and we walked out

and they started playing a red corvette. Stop what was playing, turned on red corvette. He starts dancing with me. Stop dancing. That's the first time you met him. Yeah. Yeah.

We sit down and he goes, hey, do you have a car? I go, take the car out front. He goes, really? What kind of a car is? And I go, it's a corvette. What color? I go, it's red.

He goes, take me for a ride and go, right now? I scuddya. He goes, yeah, let's go. I had to go, I'd leave. He'd go, okay, let's go. We go outside. And I pull up, he pulls up the limousine.

I pull up the red corvette. He gets, he comes and jumps in the red corvette. He goes, can you drive me really fast? I'm looking at this guy going, holy, dude. He's smaller than you. Yeah, we're the same exact size. He was smaller than you, though. But take off the high heels.

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have to say he kept his shoes on for all activities. I will not deny it. I will not deny it. And he says, you got to come over. I got to play you something. I got to play you some music. I go, really.

What town is this in? We were in Beverly Hills right here in California. I go, okay, he goes, but drive me really fast. You talk on the wrong person. You're talking the wrong person. It's five-speed Corvette, right? So I met Wilshire in Santa Monica.

I'm at 120 by the time I get to Westwood, okay? He's fucking screaming. Stop! That's hot of them. I couldn't believe it. So I pull over, you know, when you're driving, you think you're in control, you know what I mean? So I pull over, I slow down.

I go slow. It goes, okay, go slow now. Okay, don't do any more stop signs. It's going to regular speed. I go, okay, okay, it's okay. Which way to your house? Get to this house. We go upstairs.

and he's having a full French party. There's 100 fucking people in there. I'm going, what is going on here? She's at the fucking club and this is a party going on over here? He goes, yeah, yeah, I couldn't stand it anymore. I'm like, okay, all right, whatever. And so it was just ironic that we met. Yeah.

He goes, please come upstairs. So I go upstairs, go into this room. It's got this big huge white house, white everything, white carpet, white everything. I heard he had like white everything. White tent in the bedroom. white and everything. White piano. I'm like, okay, what are we doing here? I'm thinking, oh, fuck, do I have enough blow to deal with this fucking time over here?

I had no, I didn't plan on coming over at Prince's house. I was supposed to go back into my fucking left my friends flat and dry and just screwed. I go, I got a lady's room. I go in the bathroom. I'm like snorting all the coke I have left, and I'm going, oh, my God, what am I doing here? walk back out and he goes, listen, sit down right there. I go, okay, it was one single little bed all in white. I sat on the edge of the bed.

I have no idea what he was going to do. He said, eight hours, I need you for eight hours. You, you, me and you? Okay, you got me. I wasn't going to say no to Prince. I don't think so. He said, okay. Okay, stay right deal.

He went over. He had this fucking music system. Like tapes like this, like what from the studio, I've seen them. It turns this crank and it stops in its windows. My song. It's my song. And I go, he's got your song on the tape thing. He's been fucking ass to fucking tapes.

I was like, I sound laughing. I go, oh, that's Dale. He goes, yeah, you got eight hours? I go, yeah, I got eight hours. He made me listen to my music for eight hours. Eight hours, okay? He danced around the piano. He went downstairs and brought me back up lasagna.

He came back with wine. I was like, this isn't really happening. I was halfway passing out, right? literally the sun came up and kept coming up and I was like okay listen I got to go home now okay I got to go home I got to go home my dad used to say you know he would always add so you got dailed out right hysterical you got dailed out blew my mind anyway I pushed him down on the bed and had a sexual encounter with him and took him over the edge with think somewhere he never went before.

And he got on the floor and begged me to marry him and go to Las Vegas right then and there. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that to you. I'm my own identity, and so are you. And I'll help you everywhere you go, and I'll be your friend for the rest of your life. And he said, right then and there.

Very Picey's thing to do, really. Yeah, of course, of course. I would never. I didn't want to hurt his feelings. I was trying to ease his pain is what I was doing. And I believe I did. I took him out of that being afraid. He was afraid.

He was so afraid. I believe he was of wire, really. Of all his love affairs, had the most beautiful women. Apollonia, I know personally. Beautiful. You can't buy her beauty and her kindness and her care

and her sensation. It just tees. was somewhere else. Stop right there because we have to go back to you. Here I am. And Terry Bozio. Terry, listen, I love Terry because I just love it's

it's I'm in the image I think. Okay. But the band where how do we get to the band? Frank said one day we were in the kitchen having peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at the Zappa. At Frank's house. We went there

every night of the week. five nights of the week I mean I just guess was being part of Zappa's world it was like a family right absolutely so you're part of the family absolutely

and you're just in his world absolutely I didn't hear listen to other music that's why Shane asks me my son don't you know this and don't you know that did you ever see

blah blah did you ever go and I go no like I never met these people or go to meet them or see them or hear the music we were Frank Zappa because Terry was working for Frank at the time

Warren was working for Frank at the time. I wasn't working for Frank. I was there. Frank, I made Frank laugh. Hysterically, as I've said. And that's why he kept me on the payroll. Yeah. Because it was, I'm not replaceable. And I gave him the news of everything that was happening all over the world.

Yeah. So you were like his... Yeah. I was the one that came in and told him who died today. Yeah. What happened in England today? I knew everything that was going on. I'm a sponge when it comes to news and everything that's going on, like firsthand news, CNN.

And he was a big fan of CNN. That's what he had on in the studio at the time. You know, we didn't have the channel. Yeah, it's not like that. You know, right. So he really respected that of me because I was up on what was the happening of the time. Sure. Not music. Okay, but how do we get to the band?

Frank said this afternoon, while we're eating the peanut butter and jelly. Listen. I got it. you three put a band together. I'll pay for it. You call it the cute persons. You call it the what? The cute persons.

The cute persons. But I think what was the moment of shock, I could feel it for myself because I wasn't a musician. I was so long for the ride. And here I am getting my moments. Frank putting me in a rock band. Are you kidding me?

They'll listen to me now, won't they? Sure they will. Yeah, they'll pay attention to me now, finally, because I'm telling you you got to write a song called Destination Unknown. Because I fell on a window, and I know a few things, and they finally decided to listen to me. And we went, and Frank said, okay, take my studio. I'm going to New York.

Take this address right now. It's the address of Ken Scott. Who produced... He lives down the street. With Pink Floyd and the Beatles and Bowie, right? that Ken Scott. He just finished doing less dance with Bowie. Okay.

That week. He said, yeah, go to this address right now. Finish his sandwich. He finished that serious. I go, Frank, right now? He says, yeah. He said, if you have to, clive over the fence. He'll be at the pool, getting a tan.

Like, you know, Frank was always sarcastically, like incredibly funny beyond anybody else. So, make a long story short. I go, Terry Warren, he said, look, I'm leaving. Day of the tomorrow. Take my studio, go get him. I said, let's go. Terry said, now?

I said, yeah, let's go right now. We drove right over there, went outside, got in the B-210 Dotson, and drove right down the street to Ken's house, pulled up. I said, just wait right here. I get to the gold events I see him. He's sitting at the boom. There's a fence. It's like two feet tall.

I can take the boom box, and I climb, I have warming. He gave me the boombox. I climb over the fence. Walk up, and he's sitting down there with the goggles on.

And he can see me. I go, excuse me, Ken Scott. He's like, what the fuck? What are you doing here? My yard.

Does he know you at all? No. Oh, girl, his wrist. Like Zulu. I go, I got to play you this. I got to play you this. He goes, play me what? I go, listen, Frank Zappa just sent me over here.

Don't get mad. But Frank Zappa sent me over here. He told me to climb over the fence because you'd be getting a pool, click the tin at the pool. So you got to hear this record. It's a hot new record. And the day after tomorrow,

you can come over to Frank's brand new studio. He's got a current smile and everything, everything for free. Please come over and make this record demo with us. Please, I'm saying. He looked at me. He looked at me. He put his towel down.

He was like, and this shit did me. He stood up and he goes, he put his towel on. He just skimby's on, you know? He put his towel. He goes, let's get out of the sun. I would walk over and he goes, he'd play. He just, like, it was not. The son.

It was, I like boys. Mm-hmm. words uh hello I love you and walking in L.A. Okay. He just got through the first song

and stopped. He said, who is that? I said, Terry Bozio brand new number one next new drummer of the world. Born Coocaululow. Frank's given us everything for free. Can it

do it? He said, yep, I'll do it. Well. He said, but do me a favor, go out the front door. He took me to the studio. Shut the door. He drove back to Frank. He got to the guy, go, I didn't know.

And Terry's going, no, really? Morris, I knew you do it. I knew it. He was a squeeze in my shoulders. Warren was always my cheerleader, you know. We were getting bad trouble together. Warren and I, Warren and I ruined the band. I'm born and Terry quit.

Okay, well, we're not to that point yet. Beautiful first record. Historic. Really great. Yeah, historic. Really great. I can't say anything about it, but that's made the world change for me. And Frank said, yep, as soon as he came home from New York and he heard the songs we made,

He said, okay, finish the record with Ken. You'll have a record deal now. Go to work. Have a nice day. Wow. He wasn't kidding. I've worked my ass off since then. That's amazing.

It's a never-ending story. So how do you go from, I'm not a singer, I want to be a movie star? Sadly. No, but. No, sadly. No, really. No, really. I still watch movies now and think.

Okay. But you turned out. to be a very important singer in my estimation. I appreciate that. That's really nice. But when you tell that to somebody who wants blue eyes and their eyes are brown, you still feel that? You can't take a feeling away out of your person.

No, I get that. You know, we can subdue them, like our family and our mothers. We can subdue them. We're not leaving that. When you look back on that period, because obviously it was a great period for you, musically, how do you feel about it? Okay, I'm saying it in lieu of what you're saying. I'm not asking you to reminisce. I didn't know that then.

How do you feel about it now? I didn't know I was making a song that would last for 40 years. Songs? Songs. Yeah, I had no idea. I had no idea. I was just going along with the program thinking of the next stage was making a movie. Yeah.

Yeah. But did you think you were a strong songwriter? No, I think I'm a poet. Okay. I think I'm a poet. Okay. I do. I always thought that, that. I always thought that.

I've been writing like these intellectual poems, not, you know. I get it. I know your lyrics enough to know what you're talking about you mean. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think. That's what I like about myself. It gives me. But how do you feel about yourself as a singer?

I don't, I feel, um, I don't know what to say there. Why would you ask me that? Because I think you're a great singer. Well, that's very nice of you. That's very nice of you. I can sing what I've been taught to sing. But you were writing those melodies. Yes, they're very nice melodies.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that what I'm, appreciate it about you and and and you don't know this i'm telling you now yeah yeah we just met right but like a year ago i found myself listening to you again a lot really because i was in the middle of making a new pumpkins record the melodies maybe yes something about the melodies and something about the way you sang

sort of drew me back in i mean i knew the songs but i found myself kind of going back for something that i could only get from you sorry let me finish but that's very nice that's very nice that's very of you, I can relate to what you just said. Yeah. I'm there. Right. Well, you're you. What I'm saying is someone who, so, you know, my relationship to you as an artist is in pieces, right?

There's me watching you on television in whatever year it was. You know what I mean? Year 82 or 83, right? Yeah. And you were so ahead of your time in terms of how you presented yourself, you know? There's that. I remember in 82, I'm 14, 15 years old. Of course, of course.

It was the shock factor. No, no, no. There was something about you. That's what we did. Yes, but I think it's more valuable than that. Well, you're kind. I can be, yeah. You're kind.

Yeah, I know that about you. You're very soft-spoken. You just smooth everything out so politely. You would never let me. But here's my point, because I, again, I found myself paying a lot of attention to you again. starting about a year ago. Okay. And even when I asked me

who I wanted to be a guest in the show, you were like at the top of the list. Well, thank you. I'm flattered. I hope so. I am. Because I'm great. I'm extremely flattered.

So. Not because I'm great. I'm flattered because you like me. We'll work on that. But here's my point. You do like me, don't you? I think you're fantastic. Okay, good.

I think you're fantastic. Everything I hoped you would be. But we're still in this. Let's get through the. part. So one thing that really struck me, and I remember seeing it, because again, I'm 14, 50 years old. Now, I think I told you, my father was a musician. So when you grow up in a musical world, you look at music differently than people who aren't in a musical world. My father was super critical of musicians. Like when I was a kid and we'd watch TV, my father would be like,

he sucks, he's great, he's terrible. Right? So like I said, my father likes Zappa. So Tim Zappa was good. Everybody else was bad or whatever. So I had these memories of watching you. And when we first met today, you know, you're five feet-ish, right? One and three-quarter inch. God bless. We'll say five-two for the sake of posterity. I do. On my license, I lie. Very good. Always punk rock. But my point of saying this is I had this memory of you from back then, but now watching the clips, it's like having a memory over here and then seeing it with modern eyes here, and these pieces came together. And the thing I'm after here is,

and I think where you're so important in a way that people don't understand your importance was, not only did you present a really radical image of femininity and freedom at a time where that really wasn't necessarily the case, now half the world looks like you. I mean, you know that. I mean, you must have noticed. I'll recognize a little bit here and now. God bless, including some big pop stars, you know, who cribbed from you, like, I'll take that and I'll take that.

Well, everybody has a stylist, babe. It's all good, but there's only one OG. And so you're an OG in this one particular way. But the other thing is, and this is what I'm saying about this memory I have as a young person in a musical family watching you, and not totally understanding what I was seeing and now being 57. and now I understand what I was seeing then, and now I can articulate it, and I'm lucky enough to articulate it to you.

And that was when you guys played, and I saw you many times on television, when I was a kid I never went to shows. Everything was through the television, and you guys were on TV a lot for this one particular period of time. Absolutely, yes. When you would stand there with your band,

you weren't the star, and they were your band. You weren't the cute chickie with the boy band. you were in the band. And maybe that came from being in Frank's world. You were an equal. You, Warren, and Terry. Yeah. Does that make sense to you?

Absolutely. A piece of the pie. But that's so valuable, you know what I'm saying? Because even 9, 10 years later, when we had a woman in our band, people would ask her, what's it like to be a woman in a band? There was this kind of idea of like, why would a woman want to be in a rock? band and yet here you are in 1982 not only you in a rock band right one of the greatest drummers in the world you guys totally kick ass i would for anybody to to see your performance from the us

festival you guys are so good live it's shocking that was live right that's what i'm saying you guys are so good live it's shocking how good you are you know i'm saying your voice which on record can kind of sounds strange because you have such a unique vocal style. You listen to you live. Like you're that singer. It's not like a studio thing. Like you are that singer. Like you completely hold your own in this very muscular physical band.

So I'm forever impressed by that part of your talent. I have an installed courage from a man's point of view in a man's world. I was raised by an incredible man, my father, that impressed me to be this way. It has all to do with my choices of what I want to do, and when I'm going to do it, if I'm going to do it, I'm only going to do it. Yeah, that's right.

So when you look back at you on stage, at that time. I was all me doing all me at the moment with what I had to do with the pieces I could put together. Right. Taking apart posters on the wall, having no money to go to the shopping center, having to go to the plastic store and buying a sheet of plastic for $1.50 and some tubing about $56 to take home and tie up the poster around me for all of my $5 budget. Yeah.

Okay? I was working with my crafts. Yeah. I was not looking to impress anybody. But that's what's so beautiful about it. But that's what happened. And that's what happens in life when you're doing your thing. When you're just doing you, you become so impressive.

Yeah. If you do it genuinely. And Frank said to me one day, listen. Over another. some sandwich in the kitchen that was like smashed together and he said one day those fellas he pointed to them they were stone coal away Terry and Warren will become extremely jealous of you you will rise above and you're going to absorb what the man teaches you and you will have to replace them don't you ever forget that this is all about you it's always going to be all about

you. He said, and remember, don't sing anything you can't sing in front of me. We just went in the studio that day. I went, what? Okay, Frank. He said, remember, Frank is dead and buried. I go to his grave, and I say, Frank, I've replaced them. I've replaced those replacements, and I'm replacing the replacements.

and I'm still singing could break me to tears. Because when someone tells you something that you believe, you never forget it. Yeah. What part of that did you believe? Every word. I see.

And I did that. I've done that. I've gone on and had to leave Terry Bozio, divorce them, replace them. replace the greatest musicians that I've ever played with my life, step over them and keep stepping. Why? Because I'm Dale, and I do what I do.

And that's what I do. If it makes something or somehow an impression on you, well, lucky you. I'm just living my life. A ruthless Pisces. It can't, it can't, it seems that way. But then you know we melt like an ice cube. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean.

I think that's the outside, like fake Pisces. You know, we're all so big, bold and tough and bye-bye. You know, bye-bye, bye-bye, I love Britney Spears. But with such cream puffs of the whole thing. But it's astounding the courage that you can find. Well, that's what I think, but that's when I think of you, obviously, I'm talking to you now. But don't you find, is it, is it, what is that? Like, because sometimes you can't stop to smell the flowers.

I think, I'll give you an honest answer to an honest question. I think that certain people, Pisces do seem to have this more so than most. You have an intuitive sense of a destination, no pun intended, that nobody else can understand. They think you're completely insane. You're going the wrong way. That can't possibly work. Don't do it. Don't step over that body.

Right. And you're guided by something that is a story that you can't even explain. And here we are. Is that sound accurate? Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

It gives me more time to be a little more eccentric, I suppose. Yeah. I told you before we started filming that I love your song, surrender your heart to me. I just think this is such a beautiful song. Maybe it's, I mean, I know your cataloged pretty well. It might be your almost sort of, it feels very personal. Does that sound accurate? Terry wrote that song about Dale.

Oh, I thought it was the other way around. So what part of you wouldn't surrender your heart to Terry? Ever, never. Never, never surrendered? I never surrender. Why do you think that was? I told you, love is a big question here. Okay.

Love is a big question. this is all about chance. Did you ever surrender your heart to anybody other than your children? No. Because? Can't do it. Because. Don't know how.

Okay. That's fair. Mm-hmm. Can't go that deep. I'm too rejected and denied and to behind the eight ball. I'm the ugly duckling at school. I'm the one no one talks to. I'm the one that everybody...

You still carry that. Uh-huh. I'm the one that everybody said, oh, she's... So when I tell you how great you are, do you take that in? I take that scary. I take it like, whoa, it's a shock to me. Because I renown you so. And it's like, really?

How is that possible? Because you're amazing. Well, that seems like impossible. My favorite artists, there's only one there's only one you ever that's scary

yeah that's what I mean but that's the force of your personality and your talent I mean thank you I love you you know I love you would you want to make my movie sure and write the music let's do it

you could write the music your movie would be amazing what a movie that would be but the thing is you see there's so many things about that little girl Dale that I think that that's what I

made that book for is because having my sons of the ripe age of this atomic world of society that is such a whole other rainbow for me at this level of my lifestyle you know when you get to a different time of age you sense things differently of course as you said when you look back of being 1415 of course you're going to divulge it rather differently now of all the experiences that you've had. But me personally speaking, I would like everyone to have the information here so they have it from the horse's mouth.

Right. Because people assume things and they think things that they don't really know, the truth. Well, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you besides the sort of selfish desire to meet you was that I'm on it. Thank you. Was I feel like your story's not really been told.

And even if you go looking for your story, it's not really accurate. And I'm not talking about this happened, this happened, this happened, but how important you are. Well, you're very kind, see? Yeah, but I'm not being kind now. Okay, well, yeah, you are. I mean, you're still the same person. If you were a total sociopathic... You're the same person I met an hour ago.

Okay, God bless. but if you were a total sociopathic, you know, selfish artists like most artists are, I would still think you were great, you know what I'm saying? Well, that's... But part of the reason I think you're great is because of who you are. So, like, when I see you in 1982 standing on some cold TV set somewhere, wearing what you wore, and you have this way, you still have this way of singing, like with your head kind of cocked up like this?

I do, yeah, okay. But it's to me, you know, body language is interesting, right? And your body language on stage was always one of courage. It wasn't defiance. It wasn't you. It wasn't look at me. I'm so great. It was, I'm up here.

I got my band and I got my song. I was very proud of them. I was very proud of those musicians. Okay, but flip the script. You being on stage with those musicians says something about their faith in you. But that's how I could do it. Because I gave them my faith first. Okay.

First, I gave them the praise and the prows of who they were. Yeah. And then I gave them Frank. Okay. I gave them more than love. I gave them a life. Ah. When you care about the people that are closest to you, you give them your soul.

Right. Not a car. Okay? Right. So what I could do for them, I did of my passion. Right. And I knew by being with them, they would make me better. Right.

They will teach me. So who's done that for you, though, besides your father? My father, Frank Sappa, Terry Bozio, and Prince. Okay. Mm-hmm. I was listening to the, I don't know, it's not fair to call it the Prince record, but the Paisley Park era right to be. How do you feel about that now looking at that music?

I would have liked to brought Prince in. So he wasn't? He wouldn't. Yeah, he wouldn't. He said, I'm not coming there. I'm not singing anything. Take my engineer coke, all my guitars, all my stuff. It was all set up.

He said, go over there. Why do you think he didn't help? He wouldn't. I don't know. No, he wouldn't. He just said no. Stone called. He didn't want to be influenced me.

He didn't want to influence me. And I think he, excuse me, I think he won't see if I really could do it. I think he was like, this girl. But do you think that's maybe in a way where it didn't work? And I don't mean it's terrible. I mean, it just doesn't click. No, the reason, him and I, no, he fired me. Okay.

He quit the record. He stopped the presses. He stopped everything. He wouldn't. I was number two on Billboard or four in European. You had like a dance hit or something. Yeah, dance hit. And I was supposed to go to Europe. So to leave the next day. And instead, my father had a heart attack and he was in Boston.

So I took a red eye and I left. And I went to Boston. I called him from the hospital. And he said, what are you doing? I go, well, my father had a heart attack. I had to come and see him. And I'm in Boston. He goes, no, no, you're leaving tomorrow for the He flipped out. He stopped screaming at me. I'm in like a pay phone. And I said, I can't go. I've got to be here with my father. He's going to die. And I had to sign the paper for him because I was only his next to can, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He said, you're fired. It's over. How much money do you want? I said, name me a number. I said, 50,000. He said, tomorrow. And he hung up. Do you own that record? not really who owns that record paisley park because you know they got that weird title on spotify like the original lady gaga or some weird bold title

everybody you know does that that's so rude no it's very rude i i mean you know i'm not the original anybody because first of all i came before lady gaga so i don't know how i could be the original lady anybody you know number one okay so let's get really here. You know, no, no defiance or anything for anybody. I respect everyone that has the

courage to do anything in the music business at any given time of day. Because it's a real hustle. It's not for the faint of heart. This is a real rock and roll gig of life. You commit yourself to this. You may become famous.

You may not become famous, but that's the choice. You definitely will go crazy. You have to take the choice to commit or not. Okay. Two things to finish. One is from spring session M, that's the name of the record, right? 82. Yes.

There feels like, to me, and I'm saying this is someone who admires you, there seems to be this dissipation of energy. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a life. Means, means. There's a ton of life force in the first record. Second record, a little less life force. Third record, a little less. Yeah, breakdown of the rock band.

Okay, understood. By the time we get to the Prince era record, a little less life force. But sitting here, there's no shortage of life force. Was it that you're in this? He's only limited to what your availability are at the given moment. Okay.

But I'm saying, I'm asking about your part in it. Are you looking around going, I'm in the wrong place, or this is how it goes, and I'm on this boat, can't get off. Like, explain to me that because that's, let me finish my little spill. I don't know where you're coming from with the, but the, you know, the musicianship and the, because, you know, times change. The first record has this tremendous life force to it. And the music and these great songs, you know, are testament to that force, whether it was your

relationship to the boys or whatever, you know, Frank's support. But over time, it's, it's seems to get a little bit lost. It's not that it's terrible or not, I mean, there's beautiful music being made. But my sense is something's happening. There's a decline or a something being pulled back. Did you feel you were being pulled in different directions? Did you feel like you lost control of something? I'm trying to understand what I hear because I'm enough of a fan of you to know that if you're all in, that vitality is within the grooves of the music. Am I accurate in my assessment? Absolutely, yes.

You know, I think a lot of things with rock bands, maybe not the Rolling Stones, but other bands go through changes, emotions, you grow, you look at things differently, you hear things differently almost. You can't unsee what you've seen, right. When you're a musician,

the music is changing behind you. while you're sleeping. There's new musicians, there's new songs on the radio. And there's people ripping you off and all. Right behind you. They're coming up while you're sleeping. You've got to be thinking double time.

Then you got to go talk to the musicians that are telling you, no, no, no, this doesn't go this way. Then you've got a producer that says squash, squish, box. Okay, but I'm asking. That's how they got that way. Okay, but I'm asking because in my sense,

your all heart? Absolutely. Okay. So did you get your heart broken along the way? Got everything broken. Yeah, everything started going down the drain. No one would listen to me anymore. And I couldn't get my word edgewise.

When I came with the songs that I wanted to sing, they said, no, we're not singing no songs. And no, we're getting electric drums, and we're not doing it that way. And we're getting this. So let me tell you one other thing that you don't know. What? This is between us.

So when I started focusing on you a year ago, I almost picked up the phone because I wanted to write songs with you because I think you're such a great songwriter. Thank you. Well, we'll write them now. Let's do that now. But my point is, it's so cool sitting talking to because the thing that I identify so strongly in your music

is still in front of me. It hasn't gone anywhere. But I also understand that access to that problem. part of you has everything to do with your heart. Absolutely. So at least I got that part of it. You're a tuning fork. Thank you. All right. Now I've got to tell you my great Terry Bozio story to end. Okay. Okay. Do you know this story at all? Have you ever heard this story?

No, no. Okay. No, no. So when Jimmy Chamberlain, the drummer from the Pumpkins, was fired by the band in 1996, well, we needed a new drummer, and we had a 90-date arena tour, booked, tickets sold. We had to push the dates back, but we have to pick a drummer. Like, it's like we got got to pick a drummer now. So our manager at the time was Cliff Bernstein who managed Metallica. And he calls and he says, what do you think about Terry Bozio? And I'm like, holy fuck Terry Bozio. Like, first of all, why would Terry Bozio want to be in my band? Let's start there. But I started thinking, well, because Jimmy Chamberlain did the Pumpkin's drummer. He's still the Pumpkin drummer now.

Great drummer. And also a friend of Terry's at this point. So they know each other. And they're both recognizes some of the greatest drummers of all time. So it all kind of is a cool story. But I'm in a situation where I need a great drummer. And the manager calls, hey, what do you think about Terry Bios? I said, okay, I'm willing. 96. 96. So Terry comes. We had a rehearsal space at the time. We called Pumpkin Land. So Terry comes in and he's late, which is fine. I think he got off a flight or something, but he's late and, you know, hey, it's fine. So everybody else would come in, I don't we audition 10 drummers in that period. They would come in, they'd set up their kit.

You know what I mean? And you wait 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then you play. Terry shows up, say hello, he's got a tech with him. An hour goes by and we're like sitting there like this. And I'm like, what's going on? So somebody who works when he comes in, I go, is he ready? And I go, well, he's still setting up his drums. Oh, right. Right.

So I go out there. Right. Just to chat and say hi, and he's literally, and I know you know this. So this is like a, this is a drum. Yeah. And I'm watching him and he's going like this. Right. And there's 14 drums.

Right. Right. Now. Has to be in perfect tune. I don't know, Terry, you know. Every drum is tuned to a note. I understand. So I'm not going to tell him, hey.

Hurry up? Buddy, hurry it up. You know what I mean? Right. Clock's running. So we wait another. hour. Okay, he's finally ready. Two hours we waited. Okay, he's finally ready. Yeah. Now we had asked each drummer to learn three of our songs. And the first song on our second record is a song called

Cherabrocks. It's complicated. And, you know, so Terry's over there and, you know, so I say to him, can we play Cherabrock? And he goes, I didn't really have time to learn the songs. So if you guys could just play, by the way, this is a really complicated song. Right. If you guys could just play, I'll kind of play along. Exactly. So my bandmates look at me. That's a lot.

That's hard to, that, that, that's, that, that, that's, that, that, that's, that, that's, that, that's, that's, that. By the way, by the way, I was the one who said, let's try out Terry Bozzi. Okay. So I'm now, I'm getting the stink guy from my bandmates. I know, right. Because they don't give a, because they don't give a, right. Who Terry Bozio is in the fact that he played with Frank Zappa or in missing persons. Right.

They don't give two shits. Right. Right. Okay. So, I got to do a little Terry imitation now. It's a little Terry. So, okay. Oh, it gets better.

Okay. And eventually it involves you. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. So, so we start the song, and we're playing, and nothing's happening. He's just like listening. And, you know, he does that kind of. Yeah, yeah.

And all of a sudden he goes, and we're still playing. Like the fastest drumming you ever heard in your life. Right. Like what the fuck is happening? What's he doing? Yeah. And he goes, and all of a sudden he goes, he picks up on the groove and he starts that groove that he's got.

And it is the greatest fucking rock groove I've ever heard in my life. The groove is so ridiculous. He sounds like a mixed record playing live in a room, and the band sounds un-fucking believable. So I go from, oh, my God, it's a disaster. How long does this take to my God? Oh, my God. This fucking guy is, this is insane.

I've never heard my band sound like this. Yeah. Yeah, he does that. So we do that for three songs. but it's kind of awkward. It's Terry. He hasn't learned. So we get through it, and it's kind of the thing like,

this is pretty tempting, but how do I tell him to stop the 80s Zappa Fills? You know, am I going to tell Terry Bozio, don't play that Phil? Am I going to get into that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now we go into the room to chat.

We had a little kind of eating area. Mm-hmm. I recently recorded your guys' song, Destination Unknown. Right. Have you ever heard our version of it? Yeah. Awesome.

Yeah. Oh, thank you. Okay. Yeah. So I say to Terry, do you mind if I play it for you? And he goes, okay. Okay. So, and I'm a big fan of if you're going to cover a song, you don't do the cover like the original. What's the point? You're never going to be better than the original. And I love your song, which is why I'm doing it your way. Right. Because I did it my way. Right. So I'm sitting on the couch and I press play and here's Terry and I'm here. And Terry says they're like for four minutes and doesn't move a muscle. He listens to you.

And I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, okay, hold on. Right? So I'm looking at him kind of, like, is he like it? Does he not like it? Because I don't want to offend him. And so the song finishes, he doesn't say anything. And so I go over the, like, turn off the cassette, and I kind of look at him, he just sits there like this. So to this day, I don't know if you liked it, didn't like it.

He never said anything. Anything? Nothing? Nothing. Not a word. Whoa. That's... But, but... To this day...

That's worse than saying something. But to this day, I'll be somewhere, and somebody will say, oh, I saw Terry, he said to say hi to you. Aw. Always sweet through back channels and... Yeah, yeah. So whatever happened in that moment... Wow, that's wild.

That's wild. So you're making a new record, yes? Well, I just finished that one. It seemed to go by pretty quick, though. I was like, oh, my God, it's time to make another record. I was thinking to make it a Christmas record. I wanted to make a rock and roll Christmas record and sing goddamn jingle bells with the rock stars.

I like that. That's what I wanted to do. Really? I want to make a happy record, happy music for everybody. Okay. You know, the thing I just wanted to tie up about the Hollywood lie was I suffered a, a real traumatic experience. I was going in to make that record completely different

with these other songs that I have now stored up. But the night I went to play this concert, I'll wrap it up with you, you know, tape or not, but I wanted to tell you this, since you told me about what you said to me about your mother, something happened to me that hurts deep like that. The husband I was married to, in the middle, Len.

He was a big bodybuilder. His pitch is in there. Big guy, six, seven. And he was from New York. Went to school in Boston, BU, became a bodybuilder, a photographer.

And he was the first drummer that ever played with Arrow Smith in New York City in Westchester, New York. But he couldn't play the drums. So it didn't happen. And he ended up being an entrepreneur. Ends up, we stay friends for our whole lives.

I marry him. I married for a few years and we still stay friends. We separate. His birthday is February 27th. Paises. And we were dear friends forever. I met him when I was 18 years old at the Playboy Club. He took my picture as the Playboy Bunny

and I married him into like the 37s. Anyway, we stay together all this time, end up coming back. He marries another girl. They break up, okay? Then this COVID thing happens and he calls me and he says, yeah, a place for me to live. my son happens to be managing and managing the apartment building

I go as a matter of fact I'll help you come on you know it's convenient and I was knowing he was getting older his muscles were going down and everything was just it was he was feeling the lack of the power

of being a bodybuilder so I felt pretty bad for him moved him into the building anyway make a long story short brought him over candies he played Howard Hughes with me there for two years, didn't let me in. Finally, one night, I go to a concert,

and I'm supposed to go in the studio and record the next day. Play the concert. I come home. It's 4 in the morning. His lights are out. I wake up the next day. His girlfriend's calling me. Go in his apartment. I think he committed suicide. Wake him up. I get the keys. I go over.

Find him dead naked on the floor. He came to suicide, okay? And he told me the night I was leaving for the concert. He was going to eat a steak, blah, blah, blah, take all these pills and kill himself. And I'm saying, no, no, no, you can't do that right now. Wait until tomorrow. I'll be back up to the concert, right?

So that's what happened. And I had to go in the studio that day, and I went, uh-oh. Oh, God. Oh, God. I'm not going to happen and sing happy songs today. I get to the studio and go, change plans here. This record is called Hollywood Lie. And we're going to talk about the Great Gatsby,

who didn't even exist but is a figment in our mind and don't we do that with everyone we put a figment in our mind you can be who you are but you're going to be who I think you are because I like that better I might think of you in a ballerina

outfit later I don't know but I'm going to think of you and that's going to be how I feel to cultivate how I love you in my deepest feelings If you want to fall in love, I don't know what it means. That's like I keep saying to you. A passion for him was so strong.

I saw what he did. He said, but he said he'd do. And he did it. His shiny shoes were right there. The tuxedo was ready to get put on, but he passed out before he could get in the clothes. And it was almost funny. It was almost, really?

This is life. Yeah. And I... So that changed the trajectory of the... So you're still listening on all those other songs that you were going to go. Yeah. And so I went in the studio and started writing these songs, but your life is fading away. You know, you're living alone,

and you have all the world in your hand as a part of gold, but you kiss it away for what you think you might get. Yeah, yeah. But it doesn't really happen. And then you wake up, and it never wasn't that way anyway. and you forgot to tell yourself that. So that's where I went with that record. And it was an expression that I had to make, just had to do it.

It was so lucky enough that I was let to do that. Because it was a great release for me. And I think all the songs that I've ever written about all the things that happened to me are because of something that made such an impression upon me that I want to share my new news. I want to share with you. I'm a kind giving, sharing, understanding, want to cure the world.

Wish I could. Wish I could make this all go away. And everybody understand how just go easy and everything will be all right. If you just give me a hand, makes it go away just like that. See? Can't follow that up.

I love you. I love you with all my heart. Namaste. I love you. I love you. We make a record anyway. Let's do it. Right? A happy, a happy record. You're going to have to work on that with me. A happy record for the goodness. I'm really good. I'm really good in minor keys, you know. That's okay, but so am I. I'm great in 11. I can sing anything in 11. Yeah, you did. You did. You guys did just some weird frog here for a second. I do that. I do that. I talk sometimes in 11. It's like you go, okay, stop. Breathe. Okay, we're done. All right.

You're a genius. Oh, God bless you. You know you are. And I'm honored to have had this time with you here today. Whether we see each other again. Oh, we will.