The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Dave Davies (The KInks)| The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Billy Corgan sits down with Dave Davies, the pioneering guitarist/co-founder of The Kinks and one of the architects of distorted hard rock. From the raw explosion of “You Really Got Me” to the emotional genius of Ray Davies, Dave reflects on growing up poor in postwar England, discovering Little Richard and blues music, surviving fame in the ‘60s, and helping create one of the most influential bands in rock history. The episode dives into brotherhood, creativity, spirituality, and the magic behind songs like “Waterloo Sunset,” “See My Friends,” and “I’m Not Like Everybody Else.” Dave opens up about his spiritual awakening, the band’s chaotic early years, his relationship with Ray, and why love, not fame or success, is ultimately what matters. There are also incredible stories about Eddie Van Halen, British Invasion chaos, guitar experimentation, and the creation of some of rock’s most enduring recordsTHE RATS IN A CAGE TOUR: ' A One-of-a-Kind Show Featuring Two Distinct Sets Celebrating the 30th Anniversary of Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness Plus Nearly Four Decades Of Hits And Dark Treasures. Tickets On Sale Here: https://smashingpumpkins.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know, the Kinks is an enigma of the way, you know, the people shouldn't even be in the band. Maybe that's part of it. That's kind of what I'm after. I mean, it was so spontaneous that we didn't realize what we're doing. But the thing is, is when you look at your brother's writing, there's been no other writer ever like him. To be honest, it was magical real. And I could write anything.

I get the sense as a fan. There's only love. And I'm just getting emotional thinking of it. I know you know the mythology of who played the solo and you really got me. Well, of course I did. Who was the wildest? Well, I was. Dave Davies, thank you for being on my podcast.

It's great. I'm very privileged to be here. Thank you. So here we are. It's 30th Street guitars, yes. You're friends of yours, right? Yeah, it's great. Here in New York.

Guitar, is great. But as soon as I walked in, I wanted to spend money. Yes, like you do, but... Okay, so here's the secret nerd question. We'll start here. Do you still have your 60s flying V? No. No.

No, I don't keep my guitar. Really? Are you not sentimental? Because if I get sentimental, I get too attached. I get it. And that's not coveting.

I cover it. So I'm terrible. I don't want to get rid of anything. That's terrible. I want your flying V2. You know what I mean? It's not enough for me to have my guitars. I want your guitars too.

Yeah, you can have it. I don't want to. God bless. We'll find it. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. Last time you played with your brother, Ray, 2015.

Last time you did a solo concert. It was 2018, approximately. Now, close enough, yeah. And the last official Kink show was 1996 in Oslo. Oh, you dropped your mic. You're still a rock and roller, you see. How we're doing? Is it working?

Yeah. Oh, wow. It's relaxed. It's like cable access, like maybe one step up. Thank you for being on my cable access show. Okay. This is an unfair question. but looking back over so much music and so many concerts,

and is there something that you, do you feel pride? Do you feel like I would have done it differently? Is there a way you can sort of sum up? Oh, no, it's impossible. You can't sum up 30 years, 60 years. Yeah, 60 years. Three years. You can't sum up many years playing.

Yeah. It's too crazy. And there's too much stuff because you think of one thing. And then you think, well, hang on, there was something else. It's too much stuff. Yeah. I'm sure you have that experience where people come up and say, I saw you here and this thing happened.

And it's like, you know you were there, but you have no memory of it. Because you've done so much, it's hard to remember at all. The thing is you can't remember what you play. On the V. On the V. On the V. Oh, yeah. It was hard. It's difficult as you could get the play on anyway.

Was it? Yeah, I thought it's fan. But you looked fantastic playing it. Yeah. And you know with guitar, looking good is half the battle. Yeah. Okay. A little biography, short.

Born February 3rd, 1947. That's it. Muswell Hill. Good. Youngest of eight. Yes. That's a lot of children. Was everyone as headstrong as you and your brother?

The thing is, we were a poor family. A lot of people and a lot of women. It was great growing up with all his equipment. And Ray was kind of sulky in the back, but I thought it's great. And I was starting out of school. I was terrible people. I was really bad. school.

And I didn't like being taught down to... At school. At school, yeah. But didn't you get thrown out for a sexual indiscretion? Is that true? Yeah, I did. We don't have to believe in that. No.

I did, you know, unfortunately, and it was a time when it wasn't very modest. Yeah. No one would blink more. No, no. It was very blessed. Yes. You got a young woman pregnant. Yeah.

As you do, you know. But then it was terrible. Yeah. I was like, who. Control. It was fun. I had a great time as a young man. And I didn't know how old it was when I'm being young.

Yeah. It was a blast. Yeah. It was all a blast. And I don't remember. Okay. Well, we'll try to touch a couple. Yeah.

We all grew up with music around us. It's on the radio. It's on television, whatever. But once the first time music spoke to you directly, and you thought, okay, that... I know this. It was... Good calling, Miss Molly.

Say any one by the time? Good calling Miss Molly Miss Molly. Oh, good, golly, Miss Floyd. Yeah. Yeah. And I was a... Tenth fixed. Yeah.

Was it a television or a radio? Radio. Ah, yeah, that sound. Even today, that sound. It's awesome. It's overdridden. Yeah, everything is distorted. Oh, no, it's so good.

Did you ever hear the story of the room they recorded that day? You ever know that? No, you told me. So, apparently it was, I think, a studio in New Orleans. Yeah. And it was just, you know, like a lot of studios back then, very makeshift. And there were carpets on the walls to protect the sound. So it was a sweltering hot room.

Yeah. Right. And everything was just jacked to hell. And that's that sound. And there you are. Yeah, but the thing is, it was that sound that got me going. Yeah. And I had to not copy it, but I was inspired.

The feeling of the sound, yeah. And the feeling was incredible. And another record was high school confidential. Bill Haley? No. Listen, no. It was in the rich. Oh, it was also little Richard.

It was, I can't remember. It was a bloody. Just look you down. High school confidential. Is that, wait. High school confidential was. Eddie Cochran? No.

I can't believe it. We'll get our Jerry Lee Lewis. Jerry Lee Lewis. Yes, it was him. So piano, see, you're not listening to guitar, you listen to piano. Yeah, people weren't playing guitar. Oh, but if they were, it was like, yeah, simple. And I didn't like the piano.

And we could, too many notes. Too many notes, yeah. Yeah, and I went to something, I could play quick. Yeah. And so guitar was obvious. Yeah. Because you can, you know, it could just have a few things to correct things. I'm like, okay.

I finished, I finished that. No. And what it was in, a life of lonely, how to play. Yeah. Playing guitar. Yeah. You never stop learning on the game. No, never.

Never. Never. I don't know what we're doing. Yeah. But that's the beauty. But I think it's beautiful as well, and I think very won't realize this. But I think it was the fact that we were brothers and we hoped to show them. He had to think of something, and I think, and we took to suppose the star, the playing.

You know, people presume things about brothers that are musicians, but do you think you guys had almost like a telepathic understanding? It's so telepathic. Yeah. It's unbelievable. And like when you're not on or plugged down, you don't know. I certainly love the sound of your guys's voice together. Well, yeah. I got kind of a higher tone.

Yeah, but such a beautiful sound of you guys together. Oh, thank you. And it was, what was it? And we didn't have any time. No, not back then. No, no, no. You're going, what, for like a two, three-hour session, right? Yeah, we get it done quick.

Yeah. Yeah, play live. Oh. Yeah, that was it. No way. We didn't walk live, but wasn't going to work. Yeah. Yeah.

That was awesome. There's a lot of the great English bands were influenced on some level by the atmosphere in Britain of post-war life. The poverty, the rationing, the, you know, living with blown out homes still with, you know, craters in the, you know, ground. Did you grow up in all that? Yeah. Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, we did. But I think it helps us because we're in a small house. There's a lot of us. And the girls are great because all the girls sing and they all contribute to the sound.

Oh, interesting. We didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. But I go to sing this or sing that, oh, I mean, it was so spontaneous that we didn't realize what we're doing. Yeah. And Ryan was crafting is art very carefully. Yeah. Right, right was a genius and very young eyes.

Yeah. And I don't know how it came out. I don't know how music came out. Well, we have 60 years of evidence. But the thing is, is when you look at your brother's writing, there's been no other writer ever like him. Like you can imitate. To be honest, it was magical real.

And like he could write anything. It seemed like when we wrote, the first thing he wrote was, you really got me at that I was. And it happened so quickly. Yeah. It was like, do it. We do it now.

And we did it. Wow. Then it was then in now time. Yeah. I don't know how we did it to them. Yeah. But then we did it. And then we kept doing it.

But I think that it was because of the brother thing. Yeah. Yeah. It helped. I don't know how, but it does. Yeah. Just a quick diversion. Were you a skiffle guy?

Were you into the skiffle thing? How did you feel about skiffle? At the beginning, I liked the sound of the blues. Yeah. I liked the blues or skiffle or the combination? I think I liked skiffle because it was funny. It had a humor to it. No, it was funny.

It's fun. Blues was more serious. Yeah, absolutely. Especially all the American music. Music would come from America. Yeah. Was it like outrageous? Well, as you know, a lot of the blues musicians,

which came from my hometown in Chicago. Oh, yes. But they were treated better in Europe than they were treated in America in a very horribly racist atmosphere. Yeah. So they would come back to Chicago and say, I was just over there, treated like a king. Yeah.

You know, and of course. I mean, I loved all the blues guys, really. Yeah. You said, listen, like, every other thing. Especially the sound of the chess records. Again, that sort of distorted, yeah. Hyped up drums.

The records were really dirty. Yeah. Yeah. And like, it's... Have you ever been to chess studios in Chicago? No. It's still there. It's not a functioning studio really anymore,

but the room is still there. And you can still this, you know, very cheap plaster boards on the wall. Oh, wow. It's kind of like a little barn. It's sort of a long... Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

And... Oh, can they go? You should. Signing with Pye Records, Shal Tommy, is your original producer. Yeah. And also kind of a visionary. I know you guys were young and you were sort of figuring out.

We didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. But Shell was very gracious. They was very kind, which I can't support. It can't be bad. Yeah. Because a record company wanted to do, can't do it. to hurry, yeah.

Yeah. And just take quick, do it quick. And it was gracious. Yeah. And it helped us through.

He seemed to be, you tell me, but he seemed to be a producer to seem to be able to capture the spirit of the band on record. I think he did, although he didn't know it.

Yeah, yeah. But those records hold up so well. They capture the, like the light. and a bottle feeling. Yeah. And even EarlyHoo, same thing. They do.

It was good with that. We did it very quickly. Yeah. And like lightning is bowl. Yeah. So when you see, I signed a pie, Donovan was on the label and Lonnie Donegan. Lonnie Donegan was a great influence.

Yeah. A really great influence. I don't take enough credit. It's ever given to Lonnie Donaghan. Because he came up with a... He had to... Yeah, it's almost like a Woody Guthr. Yeah.

A nasal sound. Didn't we round on last. Yeah. And the... Pernan agony pronounced it. Yeah. And it was... And how he came up with these sounds.

Yeah. And you know. and lonely was quite loved them. Okay, so first single, Long, Tall Sally, didn't really do too well. Second single, you still want me. And then... Okay.

But then you really got me. You really got me. Well, then you really got me. When you, we didn't... Before he was playing piano, he was writing on the piano. And I thought, I play a guitar because I didn't really know the course on the piano. On the guitar.

Yeah. So you're playing barcores. Yeah. We said one, no things play. Right. And so, and even the inversions were,

you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, one-five one, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just wonderful. Yeah. And,

and I found that in either. I didn't wait a lot. Because I could play all the way up the bridge. Yeah. And so it was a lot easier for me. Yeah. But I didn't realize that it was crazy. Yeah.

It's incredible thought. So, I know you know the mythology of who played the solo and you really got me, you know. Well, of course I did. Yeah. The thing is, I didn't even know what I was doing. I really didn't know what I was doing. Isn't there some sort of... And if anybody could play, like,

like that. They must be crazy. But isn't there a story where like something like during the recording, Ray looks at you and goes, oh, come on. Yeah, you did. He did. And it was pissing me off. But he got your blood going, you see. Yes. It did, you see.

And so I swore in my mind. To get it out. But what a great solo. Oh, wow. Launched a thousand ships. It is. So from a, from a, because you play so distinctively, would you agree with that?

You feel when you played? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because. Was it more because you didn't know what you were doing, you sort of developed your own style. You weren't trying to necessarily emulate other characters. I was, obviously, I didn't know what I was doing, but I tried to carve it around one had to turn. Yeah.

Which there was anything, really, it don't have. Yeah. So it was really, make it up as you go along. Yeah. And there was anything to listen to. Yeah. And it wasn't, you know. Yeah, because really before you, there's no one who plays like you.

And then often imitated after since. No, no. The vocal company didn't want to put the record out. Well, of course they didn't. It's classic record company. What's that? Yeah. And thankfully for Ray, we insisted that you only got me released.

Because it wouldn't. Well, how did the managers agree? Obviously, they agreed with you at some point, but they were they... Well, the management did eventually. Yeah. But the people in the background, in background. The bean counters. Yeah.

You were there, but I have to read this list. It's a short list. So after this breakthrough, all day and all of the night, tired of waiting, everybody's going to be happy, set me free, see my friends, a well-respected man of fashion, until the end of the day, dedicated follower of fashion, sunny afternoon, dandy, dead end street, Waterloo Sunset. That's a... There's a couple more in there, but that's a pretty good start.

That's a pretty good start. Yeah, you did well, young men. If I'd have been any younger, I wouldn't have known what to. That's right. You were 17 when you got signed a pie, right? That's right, yeah. 17. Amazing.

I don't know. Were you well-behaved 17 or were you terrible? I love it. But when's the first time you know? notice, like, it's one thing to say, I know my brother's talented, but it's another thing to think, like, whoa, he's this, because if you listen to the first year of the King's records, the sophistication starts to come out. It comes up very early. Yeah, but it's like, it's sort of shocking, from a writer point of view, that he suddenly this. Yeah, but it's different because he was writing, you know, oh, yeah, sure.

You take it for Walter. I see. And, oh, yeah, sure. You expect him to do it. Yeah. I mean, if he wasn't doing it, we'd be shocked. Was there a song back then that, like, of those songs where you thought, oh, wow, I can't believe you wrote this and I can't believe. Is there anything that jumps out?

Yeah, what was earlier, before we had any heavy, heavy songs. But what, Lucy's answer, yeah. It was such a one-of-a-kind song. Yeah. Even for your band. There's almost no other song that's like that song. No song at all. Even we had that amazing.

Oh, I caught over. Shalala. Oh. Right? It's making me think of these songs. I don't know how we did it. It's kind of magical, right? I'm glad we didn't think.

so much about. But maybe that's part of it. That's kind of what I'm after. Yeah. For you, it was just another week or a couple weeks in your life. Yeah. But here we are still talking about. It's still listening.

Yeah, I know. It's incredible. Yeah. So much has come out of that era. Yeah. It's phenomenal. Yeah. That was incredible.

I mean, he played the record today in a way. What's that? Okay, death of a clown, 1967. Yeah. That's your big, your big moment. Yeah, that's my... You're gonna bust out of the band. I just, you know, leave the fan.

No. Yeah. But did you, did you... I never got the feeling that you were looking to be on your own, as opposed to you were maybe interested in doing other stuff, but it never felt like you wanted to leave the band. No, I didn't. Yeah.

I feel like that, too. But obviously, I was enjoying writing because Ray was doing all the writing. And I was just doubly, doubly, really. Yeah. And a few songs. Yeah. And but definitely a clown was really a big thing for me.

Yeah. Did Ray write the lyrics or did you write the lyrics together or? No, I wrote lyrics and he kind of brought his little bit and Yeah. It's such a bit more about, what about? And which made easier. Yeah. My makeup is dry, and it cracks around my chin.

I'm drowning my sorrows in whiskey and gin. The lion tamers whip doesn't crack anymore. The lions, they won't fight, and the tigers won't roar. Well, actually, it was based on an idea I had. I was always scared of clouds, And I was always Wired You write a song about a clown

It's a horrible, finally You know, where I grew up in Chicago We had the serial killer clown Oh, really? John Wayne Gacy, yeah When I was a little boy I met him You met John Wayne Gasey?

Yes He was so nice I just couldn't believe it How do you know that you met him Is there a picture somewhere? No, somebody told me that he was invited us to the party. He gave Danier.

Well, I didn't know who it was. Thank God. Yeah. Well, there I was in the suburbs, quaking in my basement. Because we were, we didn't know he was a clown yet, but we heard there was a killer on the loose.

Well, yeah, I was scared of them. Rightly so. And, yeah, obviously. But, um, and got put to music, and it was, Okay. Yeah.

So the infamous album that never was, Hole in the Saka, is that accurate? Oh, it's just a man. Like a silly thing. But I thought it was interesting because death of a clown comes out and you have success with that. And then the band releases Autumn Almanac, which is an amazing song.

Yes. Even now, if you listen to it, you think, well, how did that come from? It's such an ensemble. It's phenomenal. Yeah, but it's, I love it has a certain atmosphere that's hard to. It's, when we're making it, we went in awe of it because it was, it spoke to her in a certain way.

Yeah. It was, can't let this go. Oh, I see. And it had an incredible feeling about it. Yeah. It's like a shuffle, right? Yeah. Yeah.

It's a cool. it's funny mention that song it's quite an autumn tall and I think how I was I? 17,

18? Had I had to me too. Yeah, at that point you would have been gosh, 20? Oh yeah. Right?

Yeah. But still. Yeah. I mean, my first album came out when I was 24 just to give you some perspective.

So I wouldn't have been able to handle the success that you had at 20. There's no way. I'd fluffed my way through. He did well, young man.

And then, Susanna's still alive, back to you again. And then... And the things of Susanna, I couldn't write about Susanna because I fell in love a very young age

with a girl called Susan. Oh. And so it was easy for me to write about someone called Susanna or Susan. Okay. And it came. Yeah.

Beautiful song. Yeah. And I don't know my stick down. But is it, so correct me if I'm wrong, Lincoln Country was the next solo. Lincoln County, yeah. Yeah, and is that why the record company got cold feet on you doing a solo record? Is that true or not true? Do you remember that? No, it's because I suppose Lincoln County, no, it's Lincoln County. Is it county or country? childhood.

Oh, my bad, yeah. And it was, you know, I'm turning the amount of what happened. Yeah. The mythology is that you had success with Death of a Clown. You started making a solo record. Obviously, the band was involved. The band's playing on the record, Ray's helping you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and then the story is, as the mythology goes, is that the Lincoln County song was where they got cold feet and then kind of shelved. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, well, I'm asking you, you were there. Yeah, but I don't remember that. You don't remember, yeah. But that's first. But did you, did you, do you feel looking back, you wish you'd made a solo album at that time?

Are you okay with? Yeah, I was glad to get anything out, really. Yeah. And Lincoln County, I thought it was fantastic. I thought it was great. It's a cool song. And I nearly took the rock for the smooth. Yeah, yeah.

And we, then we go and do something. else. You know, they're going to another record. Yeah, and another tour and you're just moving on. Yeah. And we're doing, we're recording so much during that time. Yeah. You guys recorded a lot.

For a band of your time, you seem to record more than other bands. Yes, it's true. And we did. And we did, we did a lot of recording. Yeah. Yeah. How long would it... Would you go in for... I'd love him because it's ridiculous.

Yeah. Yeah. But was it because maybe Ray was writing so much? Ray was writing. He started to write and then write and then write. Yeah. Well, but he was having hits with other people too, right? Yes, he was. He was writing for...

No, who was he right for? Yeah. Now, I'm on the... the spot too. I know who he wrote for, but I can't remember. But there were even hits where they were covered, people were covering King's songs. I think the guests, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the grassroots, I think did I'm not like everybody else. Did they? Yeah, yeah. Early grassroots before they had songs like midnight confessions. Oh, yes. That's right. They, early, early, uh, grassroots did a cover if I'm not like everybody else. Oh, that's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorite songs. Oh, yeah.

One of my. Not a bad one. Yeah. Okay. You answer this question. How are you like, please? The band's reputation is a brawling, raucous. Wild kids.

Well, I was. Who was the wildest? Well, I was because... I read your book, by the way, so I... But the thing is... Yes. I know how wild you were, so... But...

I was very wild. You know, I wanted to get onto the next days. It was always what's next. Yeah. Is that just your personality? Yeah. Kind of always. Yeah.

And I'm not right one now. What the hell? What are you? And like it was, and it was important for the writing. I answered. The, you know, I said. You seemed in the time to have good relationships with a lot of the other artists. Is that true?

Well, um... Is that just because you were hanging out and people got to know you? I really got on well with the Brian Jones. Right. And he was... Because he was really kind of cool. And he was very nice. I did love him very much.

Yeah. And, uh, we... It was like we thought that we were supposed to be like this. Dandies. Dandies, right? Dandies, right? Kind of dressing the part. In the park, great looking. Yeah.

Ruffled feather, ruffled shirts. Yeah, yeah, we thought. Your handmade coats, right? Yeah. These kind of beautiful. And Brian, we dressed so well. And I love dressing up. And I just look good.

What? You're dressed better than I am. I'm you're still working. You're still working. And I love to dressing up. Yeah. But it was also, we know. It was a part of the scene, man.

But looking back now, we realize that was a very magical time for culture, for music, for sexuality, for a lot of things. Yeah, for a lot of things. And there are you. You were. Sexuality. And sexually it was important. Yeah. You know, it was like, oh, I'm a trial.

I know it sounds really gross, but, you know, we would experiment. Yeah. We were experimenting with each other. Yeah. And learning. And it was a very great time. Yeah. You seem like you had fun.

Yeah. Okay, how did you feel when bands started imitating the kinks? For example, the trogues come to mind. I mean, the wild thing is facing... The trogs? Yeah, but I mean, the... It was great. You liked it.

Fun, I did. And then they got used to it and I thought, well, hang on. That's just a little bit like, you really got me. Yeah. So you were cool with it, you thought it was fun. Yeah, yeah. And when I had... Years later,

When I heard the... Who was it? Somebody imitating you guys? Yeah, and it was a great band. You're talking about Van Halen? Van Halen, yeah. Van Halen did it, and I thought, doesn't he know it's already been now?

Well, they cover two your songs. Yeah, you do. You really got me, and where have all the good times gone? Yeah, it's like a flashy kind of the first. Won't you tell me? Do do do do do. They almost like more R&B if you think about it. Yeah, it was.

Yeah. Did you ever meet Eddie Van Halen? No, sadly not. Oh, he was great. Oh, it's enough to a minute. What a guitar player. Oh, yeah, it's amazing. Why would they copy up for corny record?

Because they love the record. Yeah, it was great. But I interviewed Eddie once at his home studio, and he was as far away from me as you are. and watching him play, like, from this far away, I was like, he made it look so... It was crazy. It was just like somebody...

And he would talk the whole time. So he's playing, like, the hardest you'd ever play. And he's talking the whole time. And you're like... And then he goes to me, you try. And he hands me a guitar. Oh. I want to see you play.

I'm like, what do you play? What did I? I should have played you really got me. Yeah, should have done. So a big part of the band's story is you guys don't tour the U.S. for about five or six years because something with the unions. Oh, yeah. I mean, I still don't know what really. Something probably with the unions.

But the unions were a bit strict then. Well, back then the unions were tied in with the mob. Well, that's... Every city was wired. Well, it's true. Every city back then, because my father was a musician back then. and so I heard all the stories. The mob and the unions were all tied together.

So if you didn't pay the right people or pay the right respect, so it might have not even been anything you guys did. It might have been a promoter. It might have been something, a manager that didn't pay somebody in paper bag. Awful. Well, it was terrible. Well, it must have been hard because those are pretty good years to be in America. Yeah, and we got banned from America. Yeah, for a while, yeah.

And we didn't, and to be honest, that we went into the studio to do... Muswell Hillbillian. No, it was, um, ah, no, for it. Arthur? Arthur? Arthur, says the beautiful... Yeah. And we kind of thought that it might be a lot of album.

Oh, because you were... Because it was, you just cut off half your market. Yeah. And it was kind of in the back of mind. And singing, you know, and... Right. I would never even have thought about it that way. But Arthur was...

Arthur was great. I think it was one of the best... Arthur is so ahead of its time, it's almost shocking. It sounds like a late 70s record done in like... I know. It's funny. You guys are so ahead of your time. It really does sound like kind of what we would later call

in the Midwest power pop. I guess so. You know, I mean, like strong corner work and, yeah. Yeah. But you guys are like, you're seven, eight years ahead of everybody on that. Oh, yeah, I guess we were. So your bluffing was working. Yeah.

But they were great years. Yeah. There's some emotional songs that are really set up. Yeah. I want to give you a compliment. But it's an interesting compliment. So I want to see. Well, we'll see.

Yeah. I think one of the things that I'm proud of as a fan of your band is you guys didn't seem to be influenced by the Beatles like everybody else were when the Beatles had such big success. Even the Rolling Stones were influenced by the Beatles. They couldn't help them. You guys seem to just exist in your own world. And somehow the Beatles success didn't seem to, if anything, I would argue the Beatles were influenced by you guys. Well, I think so. I think seeing my friends really was...

Absolutely. Or at least, like, a deal? In the early... Yeah, 65 is to see my friends? Yeah, 65. It was a real... I'm just getting emotional. I'm thinking of it.

I think... See my friends was early. Yeah. And before the beat was had... Well, you're basically playing the open chord in A, I believe. Yeah. Because my band used to cover,

see my friends. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because that was a big influence to us, this kind of hazy psychedelia. Yeah. But it was cool because it had a beat. It wasn't like hippie.

It was more wrong. The reason why we didn't copy the bill was it. It couldn't. We could copy ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Listening to ourselves. I see.

Play. Yeah. And I can't be bothered. But I think it's so cool that you guys weren't. So many bands were influenced by the Beatles' Titanic success that they kind of, you know, like famously the Stones did the psychedelic record. We were trying to still learn how to play. It seems around Village Green, there's the shift in the writing and the shift to the focus. Was that something you guys talked about or is it just happened?

From this grain, no, let me see. The writing seems to become more introspective. Yeah, I'm just trying. I think when we got that band in America. Yeah. I think 66, somewhere around the time. The film was a film? A little actor.

But what I'm saying is there seems to be this shift in the writing. Was that influenced by something? Because sometimes, you know, you talk to famous musicians and you say, oh, when this thing happened, they go, I wasn't thinking about anything. I was just doing the next thing. Yeah. I don't know. Would you guys talk about directional changes? would you sit around the table and say,

I want to do this? I think about about what came up. I see. Whatever was. Ray was writing or what I was writing or whatever area going into.

Yeah. It wasn't, you can't just, oh. Yeah. You have to, you know, it has to affect you. But if you look at the evolutionary change of the band's music, from 64 to 67, 68.

I mean, it changes radically. The writing gets more intellectual, more introspective. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm often surprised when bands, when I talk to guys whose music I grew up really respecting, I always think there's more talking.

And they're like, no, we didn't talk. We just kind of got on with it, yeah. We just did stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it, yeah. And we thought, oh, it's soaker because I know. Because some of those records weren't as commercial as some of the earlier records. No, no.

But was that something you cared about, thought about? Well, the things I'm trying to put together apart here were we kind of crashed a bit because of the American Bay. And we kind of thought, we thought more in with them. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. And it did affect us. Yeah, I bet.

I mean, you're looking at the possible, you know, the cliff coming. And we saw it. I thought that I've tried to see the remember the, you know, don't recall. Well, there was Muswell Hillbillies. There was Arthur. I think it's Arthur. Yeah. Arthur seems about right.

Because Muswell Hillbillies was kind of more of a lark. It felt like it could be then. Because Muswell Hillbillies seems like more of the way you guys were going with Autumn Almanac and kind of having a laugh and a lark. And I'm not saying it wasn't serious, but there's a lightheartedness. A lighthearted. And Arthur seems to start, you know, it gets into something deeper, yeah. I'm sure you're no more bother than me. It's me job, you know?

It's like, well. We never used to, we never took things too likely. I know that we wrote funny songs, but they were all based on a deep feeling. Yeah. And it was never a threr boy. Yeah. Yeah.

And we wrote songs based on humor. Yeah. How we felt about thing. Yeah. Well, always, really. Yeah, most thing. Yeah. Yeah.

And Roan was so prolific that we could do that. Yeah. You know, in the history of brother duos, you know, the Gallagher's come to mind. Oh, yeah. God bless him. Yeah. It seems, because I'm obviously focused on you in this equation, I never got a sense that you were jealous of your brother in any way. way or you felt overshadowed by him or any way?

No. I get the sense as a fan. There's only love. Yeah, but that is very, very true. Nothing ever. I don't take him the other way or not. Well, you tell me. No.

Did you, okay, let me throw a question of conjecture. Yeah. Did you feel at any point that your brother didn't like that he was relying on you. I can't answer that question. Yeah. But do you ever... I mean, I don't care about the gossip. It's just more how you felt.

Yeah, it's gossip really. Okay. I always felt that I was supportive of all. Oh, okay. And I never felt in competition with him. And I don't know why. be mad, but for

I always liked a lot of what he did. Yeah. It's cool. It's got to do it. What a cool band to be in. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, the kinks

is an enigma the way, in a way it's, that the people shouldn't even be in a band. Like mid-misfits, they should be called us the misfits. And it was incredible. Yeah.

Music came out the walls. And fast. And fast. Yeah. Yeah. There were times early on when I'm really in, how Brian was working. He didn't want to start.

He didn't want to start. And I said, right, you know, I think it was because for those years of having it quick and then stopping. Then when he finally had the ability to go. I had to get him. Ah, I see. And I thought, well, why did it stop now? Stop? And we had quite a few arguments.

Because he would want to keep fuss in. And you were like, it's great, let's just go. And then shunning. Oh. But everything happens for a reason. Yes. That's what we don't realize. All this stuff happens for purpose.

There's a purpose behind it. Even when you're upset and I agree about it, there has a reason behind it. Was having your own studio, which I was surprised to see is still in operation? Yeah. Did you feel that opened up kind of a greater level artistry? It did, and it didn't.

Yeah, because it got to be too fussy. And it got too... When you recorded, were you a fussy musician, or you were like, I'll let them handle it? Well, actually, when we got head come together, I became more into the sound. Yeah. And I got into what the instruments do.

Yeah. What do they do? Yeah. And I became much more involved. in sound. Do you remember when that was that sort of like

Lola times or was like when was that do you have a memory on? God, the Lone seemed like a thousand

years ago. But there's a point where your guitar work becomes more articulated and the sound seems to come forward. Well,

you got your post Yeah, but I'm saying this instrument and you've got learned from it from it.

Yeah. From it scale. and you've tried to do kind of more cool overdub work. Yes, obviously. Some cool stuff. Yeah, I did a lot. Double tracking leads and cool stuff.

All I've got to. Yeah, but at the beginning, I didn't. Yeah. No, I was doing, but you did, as you progress further on. You didn't learn scales. Yes. And although I was never trained, I was never trained musician. But some people it works for in a weird way.

I can't. I can't. I have no training even. Oh. None. Good feeling. Yeah. Here we are.

When the band shifted to what seems to be more theatrical. Yeah, well, why? That's man praying. Did he, okay, but did you tell you that part? Did he say, I've got this idea? Well, no. Or did you find out later? We found out.

afterwards I think get some work and yeah did you could tell right away the audience

sort of wasn't really understanding what was happening right when was going through mad brain okay

yeah yeah do you have a sense of what inspired that from him because from a US

perspective it feels very English and you guys were always kind of English but it was like really

English yeah like English overload damn you know, dance hall stuff and like stuff that an American wouldn't sort of translate necessarily. Yeah, I don't want to

speak through right, but I just think a lot of it goes back to the musical was going through the music and what was they inviting then you know, and then we're going through. How did you process that people weren't

understanding what you guys were putting out there? Because that was a sort of a strange time for the band. Yeah, but I didn't mind. You were cool. I was cool with it because I wasn't into the, what were going to do next thing? I wasn't bothered with going in with fashion or instrumentation or I just wanted to get me done.

I see. And that was the driving force. Okay. It's for me to get things done. Yeah. Do you have a fond memory of that period? No. For good memories.

I see. Good memories. I can't not be good, but some of them are really good. Yeah. And some of them are the... I've seen some video of you guys playing in the time, and the audience does seem to sort of enjoy the spirit of what you're trying to do, even if they don't always get the musical part of it.

Yes, that was important. Yeah. And that's what I was saying earlier. When it was happening around us, it was funny because you're there enjoying it. Yeah. But you can't strike up. You know, as I said earlier, when you try and do that, it doesn't come across. Yeah.

If you're involved in it, you could make anything sound fun. Yeah. I get it. I get it. I thought to ask you this, and if it's too personal, we could skip it, but I've only had one interaction with your brother. I don't think you know the story, but I'll tell you here. I don't. I don't want to know. You don't want to know? You want to skip? No. No, it's okay. It wasn't negative. It wasn't negative. No, my God. So at one point he was doing a record, collaborations. You know, his most famous songs with guest people. So I did a combination with him. You know, he sent me the tracks, and I played guitar,

and it was a combination of all day and all of the night and Destroyer. Yeah. And, and Ray emailed me and said, I'd like you to be on this record and wrote back, thank you so much. I'm such a fan. It's a total honor. Thank you very much.

And I said, it's so funny. I just, two days ago, I bought this pie single of one of your single, funny or 45s, a vintage copy. Oh, yeah. And I sent him a picture. Never heard from him again. I don't know. Why is funny?

You know, because he's, is, he's funny. Right. And other people I know that know your brother say that's just kind of how he is. It's not negative. He's kind of a funny guy. You can't know him. So tell me from the perspective of a loving brother, which you obviously are, what's something that people, you would want people to understand about your brother? Because you know the... Is it you don't... About my brother? Is it you don't... You have to let it go with the... flow. I see. Because you don't know what's going to happen.

If you stop somebody, it might help everything. I see. And so if it's down the flow, let it go. Just keep going. Is it born of a certain trust that you have? Yeah, I think so. Okay. I think so that you have to, you got to stop someone that end up dying.

Miserous. But he, you know, you've got to go with it. Okay. There's no other way of saying. Yeah, some people are, they are just the way they are, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And that's true.

Yeah. But that's what other people that know your brother well have told me. Yeah. You know what I mean. You have to go with it. If it starts, time of the things follow, it might never harm. Ah. I get it.

I do. It's, you know, it's just the way it is. And I'm glad it is. Well, we were the beneficiaries of a lot of great arts. I love got great work. Yeah. Let's talk about spirituality. I know that's something that's dear to your heart.

Well, the thing is, I had to become spiritual because I was not going to a good place. Okay. And I was going down because, yeah, because of all this, why is free doing this? Was it more of an existential crisis or? Oh, God. It was happening in my own being. Okay. It was going crazy in a different way.

And, but I learned how to deal with free bear. when I was searching for an answer or a solution. Was it in your mind dogmatic or was it just I need to find the meaning of this? No, just to find the meaning behind it. What's going on? Is it all the stuff going crazy? Where is it? Yeah.

So what was the rooted feeling for you that you found? I think love is probably, only way of expressing it because you can't express it and the other way and love that you have disconnected. You can't, there is no other way to express it. Yeah. And probably another person with an easier way to explain it. Okay.

I saw this thing once where somebody said, love is the only thing in the physical world where you don't have to subtract it to make more of it. Love makes more love. Like energy, right? We play amplifiers. They take electricity. Well, you have to take energy from somewhere to give it to the amplifier. Because love is the one thing that if you give love to another, it makes more love. It belies the laws of physics.

This touch you want to be touched. see, he does because love is goes through everything. Yeah. And it does have a language. Okay.

It does. It doesn't. I saw these lines that you wrote, and I was taken by it. I think it's from your song, God in my brain. Right? I am paralyzed, staring straight into space.

I see your thoughts deep inside, stretching the mind to the edge of time, spirit explains what is real, what is right. Wow. Did I say that? You said that. Those are your lyrics. Is that born of this awakening that you had?

With God in my brain, I had a spiritual kind of... Yes. Do you have an Agapé moment where you felt sort of a greater... That was a... I'm often embarrassed now. I felt there was a great thing inside me. Yes.

That I can... You wrote that. Now, I think what's beautiful, and the reason I bring it up is because people oftentimes associate peak experiences like fame or success as the path to success. salvation. And if there's any beauty to success, you and I know that that's not the path to salvation. It's like an inexhaustible thing. You can never have enough fame, enough money,

enough success. It never fulfills what's really important. Need, need, yes. But I don't know. It's like when you think of the rewards, it's like you feel ancient. I see. It's like you feel old but young at the same time. It was like you kind of have never aged, but you have. Yes. And you've really aged, but you don't realize it.

Yeah. And those magic moments capture an awful lot about humanity. And about human being. about how we relate to each other and etc. So having lived an incredible life, I mean, you have, I think. Yes, especially. Is there anything you want what want people to understand about your journey?

Oh, wow. You know, let's just call it one pearl of wisdom. Oh, my, I can't, you know, be happy, be in the moment. No, the thing is, it's that you can't. Give somebody something like that. Yeah. It's something you might know about. I feel it.

I get it. You know? Yeah. It's not up here, right? It's not a tangible thing. I see. And that's why we need love. Yeah.

It's because we can't express it. away. Yes. Yes. And it's, you know, that's why there's so much, oh, God. Does the world as is drive you mad? Because it does. Yeah.

You know, and when think of it, it's so easy to solve. Love, yeah. You know, it's love, you know. Well, I think this is why the people that run the world don't want us thinking this way. They don't, they don't know why we're doing it. Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't make any sense any other way. It's like that touching, knowing that love is your answer.

Do you have a, now that you've sort of had this awakening for many years and you've been through health struggles and do you have a, do you have a conception of God or are you sort of more in the non-dogmatic space? I'd rather be in a non-dogmatic state. I kind of got that feeling. Yeah, they've kind of, you know, because when you feel like you come to a solution, that's when they're getting to trouble. And limitation. In limitation.

Yes. And then come up to solutions that offer you an answer. Yeah. So you have to keep going. I see. through the awareness. See, you explaining this to me helps me understand your musical

life so much better than I could have ever understood just listening. Does it make sense the way I mean it? Yeah. Yeah. The freedom in your music, I think it makes sense to me more. Yeah, oh, good, good, good. Because, you know, again, musicians in basements, we think, you know, oh, I know why they're doing this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. A couple more things. I was having tea today with a friend of mine, and I told her I was going to be sitting and talking to you. And she said, what's your favorite kink song? And that's an almost impossible question, because there's so many great songs.

And I thought, and I thought, and I said, I'm not like everybody else. Oh, it's funny to tell you that, because it's my personal favorite song. I'm not like everybody else. Okay, so she said to me, why is it your favorite Kink song? And I said, it's alternative music, which is what my generation is associated with, 40 years before alternative music. It's basically an alternative, it could have been a Nirvana song or a Smashing Pumpkin song.

It's almost like the songs we wrote in our generation, but you were writing those songs in 60, whatever. I do like, become the fauna. Yeah, great band, yeah. I do. I love that band. And it's fun to you mention it. But yeah, it's interesting. I said, like, curious.

Where's it come from? Where's that stuff coming from? Somewhere. Yeah. Maybe not up there. You know, it's like everywhere, right? Yeah, maybe it's everywhere. Okay, last thing.

Tell me about the art show that you're doing. We have an artist called Chris Jen for. who contributed to a piece of art that I made. Okay. And it raised both together. And it's quite exceptional. It's got an exceptional piece of art. Is this a singular piece of art?

Or is it like a collection of things or is it one piece of it? It's, um, which I had it. It's a, it's a, it's solid. off as a piece of art, we just one person could put together. I see. And it's taken on a really great feelings. Do you get the same buzz working together on something non-musical? Actually, I do.

I do. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. I really do. It's funny. And it's... No, I hope it'll do well when it comes out.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for me. God bless you.