The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - David J (Bauhaus/Love and Rockets) | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Billy Corgan sits down with David J of Bauhaus /Love and Rockets, one of the quiet architects of alternative music. David shares stories about growing up in working-class England, discovering reggae and punk, the accidental genesis of "Bela Lugosi's Dead," and Bauhaus' mission to dismantle the conventions of traditional rock.Billy reflects on hearing Bauhaus for the first time and how the band permanently reshaped his understanding of music and artistic freedom. David recalls the surreal night Iggy Pop appeared front row at Danceteria, reveals what it truly took to reunite with Peter Murphy after years of estrangement, and reflects candidly on releasing more than 20+ solo albums for a niche-but-devoted audience, driven less by ambition than by an unstoppable need to create.Check out David's album: "Tracks From The Attic Revisited" here: https://www.independentprojectrecords.com/david-jSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A guitar is not necessarily something that you strump. You know, you can hit it with a stick. Whatever it takes to get the right sound out of the thing. It's a fanboy for a second. To me, Bauhaus is one of the greatest bands ever. What a big thing for us was not doing the obvious and not being rock. I'm always impressed by how confident your musical life

has been to let things be simple or imperfect, or just be what they are. When we started, I mean, we got a lot of resistance, and we really relished kicking against that. Did you guys have an intellectual kind of conversation at the beginning? You are named for an art movement. Yeah. No.

I love it. David, nice to see you. Thank you for being here today. You honor me with your presence. Thank you, Billy. Where can we begin? Oh, okay. I'm fascinated because of the music.

that came out of the UK in the 60s, 70s, 80s, this kind of post-war gloom. You weren't necessarily born right after the war, but you were born in 57. What was the environment that you grew up in? You know, if you were to just kind of give me a postcard view of it. Yeah, well, I come from a town called Northampton. It's right in the middle of England. It's the Midlands. It's the center. furthest place from the sea in England actually and it's a small market town the industry is making shoes boots and shoes so there's factories for that

and there's a brewery there the Kalesburg Brewery and there's a town center market square it was a pretty rough place growing up there kind of industrial the typical industrial kind of working class. It had an element of that, yeah, very working class.

Just really, just a kind of hard place and pretty tough and rough and ready. So amounted by beautiful countryside, which was you had to escape, you know, go into the countryside, which was near. Yeah. But the town centre was very, very working class. and it was a rough place and we got a lot of stick when I first formed Bar House with the other guys

Yeah, I had a feeling, forming a heart band Yeah, we were very much outsiders I bet You know What did your parents do? My parents were They had a newsagent

And tobacco in the shop Okay Little shop on the corner And that did quite well That shop Mainly due to my mum's kind of business acumen and they built that up quite well

and so I as a result of that my brother and I we went to a public school for two years which in England a public school is the opposite to here it's sort of like a private school so and that's quite formative in a way I was going to say yeah different it was certainly like the

the level of education was a lot higher Yeah. But it was pretty draconian in its, it was like, you know, Tom Brown's school days to a degree, corporal punishment and all that. Ah, okay. And that was another kind of tough place. So only lasted two years and then went back to a, just what they call a secondary modern school, just a regular school.

And I found that I was like, I was two years ahead of everybody. Oh, I see. But soon slipped back. because I wanted to hang out with the cool kids. As you do. Yeah. So every musician has their apocryphal, you know, the moment when the music sort of flashed in their brain. Like, I don't want to do that.

What was your sort of moment? That would be. Well, the very first thing was reggae. Which has always been present in your music. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of dub, dub feel. Yeah, but I'm talking about like prior to dub. Are we talking like Desmond Decker?

Yeah, exactly Desmond Decker, Toots and the Mateo, things like that. And a lot of the early records that were produced by Lee Scratch Perry. And that had a big impression on me. So this is like 1970. Okay. So I was like 13.

Yeah. My mates and I, we used to sneak into the Skinhead Disco. We were too young to get in, but we would sneak in. And that's where the first place where I heard music, really loud in the dark and in the edgy company of the skins you know yeah who would be quite amused by us

nippers and they would like ply us with beer and get us drunk is this like nascent punk times or no because it was what were the skinheads listening to to reggae exclusively really oh I didn't know that's all they play there yeah this part of English culture is kind of lost to the

Americans you know yeah And the reason that there was a lot of that music in England was because of the mass immigration from the West Indies and Jamaica. Basically colonialism, right? Well. Well, weren't they colonies at some point? Yeah, but it was the other way, you know, and those people coming in. No, I'm not saying, but it was the connection of the cultures through colonialism that sort of sets that sets an emotion. Yeah.

Again, this is my American team. Yeah. And they were kind of, the natives were kind of escaping that to go back to the source of the imperialism. But they set up their own culture there in England and it was very prevalent and made a big impression musically. What was the attraction to the skinheads, if you remember? Like, did they like that it was, was it sitting as more pure? It was it, what was there? Because the skinheads tend to have some kind of sociopolitical logic to what they're into.

Yeah, I think it was an identification with the archetype of the rude boy. Okay. And the clothes, they like the clothes. And that was influential on the dress sense of the skinheads. He then morphed into the suede heads. I was an early, I was a suede head because I never got that skinhead haircut. So when they all started to grow out of their hair, you know, it was recognized that I was already there. Yeah.

It's fascinating too, because I know you, you, you, had your dips into Motown, but like basically Motown and Stax had such an influence on reggae. Yeah, sure. So going back through what you were influenced by, it's like an interesting loop there. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the first music that made a big impression on me. And then shortly after that, I mean, what really blew it all apart was Mark Boller and T-Rex.

Yeah. So this is like 71, 72. and I was totally captivated by all that. I joined there. It's the only fan club I've ever joined was the T-Rex fan club. What did you get for joining the fan? Well, I would wait with baited breath for my monthly package that would come through, a newsletter, a photo of Mark, you know, with a printed signature.

No, I wish. Occasionally a flexi-disc, which is quite a true. And I think they go for big bucks now. I bet. But yeah, I was a paid up member. And then, again, shortly after that, Bowie, of course. Yeah. Well, David Bowie was quite fascinated with Mark Bowlin, too.

He said, I'll take some of that. Yeah, sure. As you know, not everybody wants to play the bass. It tends to be the red-headed stepchild of musicians. So what was it about the bass? Was it the dub reggae part of it all? Well, this was prior to dub, but it was certainly the reggae, yeah. Okay.

And I identified that sound and that instrument as being very integral to the music that I loved. And nobody else wanted to play the bass, you know. My first band I was in at school, there were five league guitarists, you know. And then it was, and I was one of them, aspiring, you know, and failing. And then it was suggested by one of us that, well, Well, well, somebody has to be the bass player. And I just stepped forward. Yeah.

You know, maybe all the other guys step back. But, no, I always gravitated to it. Yeah, because I love the bass. But, you know, as an 18-year-old guitar player, I wanted nothing to do with the bass, you know. Sure. It's the guitar, you know. Yeah, of course.

Certain types. Tony Visconti, wasn't he the T-Rex bassist, essentially? Well, he played on some of the racists. records. Bill Curry, is a regular guy. I mean, Tony just gone to you, yes, very good base square. But when you talk about the reggae influence on you're playing, it's like suddenly, because when I first heard you playing, I couldn't understand where it was coming from. Because I only saw it within the guys of what we would now call alternative music.

Right. You know, where it's like, you think of like Steve Severn or something. It's very, like, aggressive and, you know, maybe playing higher hooky. Yeah, sure. But you were coming from this totally other quadrant of logic. Yeah, although I did have elements of what you're talking about as well. Yeah, no, but I'm saying that part of you're playing was a mystery to me. Right, yes.

And that is coming from dub. Yeah. Because, I mean, basically, well, a key component to Bella Lagoza's dead is, it's got a dub factor there. It makes total sense when you put it in that frame. With the echo as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we were all into reggae, especially myself and Daniel. We were very much into dub.

Ah. So, yeah. That also explains sort of some of the love and rocket stuff even. Yeah, it's always been there, yeah. Yeah. Sure. So I'm not asking you to repeat the origin story of the band, but I'm curious, you know, having a musical brother, you know, and you know the famous brother pairings, the kinks and, you know,

the Gallagher's and stuff like that. Was it always the intention you guys were going to work together, or was it, did that sort of... My brother and I? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you how that started. And I told this story to Tony Visconti mentioning him. Oh, very good.

And he loved it. So the first time I ever recorded anything, and that was on a real-to-reel tape recorder that belonged to my parents, was because I had the T-Bex singles. So we would play those sort of quite low volume. And I would sing over the top and warble, and attempt to sound a bit like Mark Boland. And Kevin would play, he would be Mickey Finn,

and he would be playing. Congars? Well, he upturned flower pots, literally, as he's congars in lieu of concurs. And we would make these, God, I wish I had those before. You know. And record store day, you know, it's in this day and age.

It's a release. Yeah. So that was the start of it really. Yeah. And then Kevin, he had a natural talent for drums. Yeah. And he got a kit, pretty basic kit, you know. Yeah.

But he was just very, very dedicated. It'd just be playing for hours and hours, much to the chagrin of the neighbors. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a fair question asked, but I wonder if there's anything to it. both you and your brother have very asymmetrical approaches to your instruments. And it seems to me that given the breadth of your work over so many years, like some alternative people, they want to be alternative, so they play alternative or weird.

But you guys just play different from the get-go. Was that something that was intrinsic? You think it's in the family? Was it they're an influence or was it just the way it was? makes sense the way it was really um but you know like some people think like anti you know like some post punk people are like they were anti something like i'm not going to play it like this i'm going to play it like that because i remember the first time i really paid attention to your brother as a drummer i remember thinking he plays so cool he always plays cool stuff and he's not trying

to be flasher right he always plays like just cool stuff on the songs he obviously can play drums it's not like he lacks skill. Yeah. But it's not, not everybody think, you know, most drummers want to show off. Yeah. Most of the arguments with drummers are like,

you need to calm it down. He's the opposite. And he was schooled by a jazz guy. Okay. So he has that, that was his, like, he took lessons from his jazz guy,

Keith Cumber Patch. And, good name. Yeah. And, I mean, if you notice, Kevin holds the sticks that.

Oh, that's traditional, yeah. Style. And he's just very tasteful. and subtle. But I would say that about your playing too, you know what I mean?

It's just interesting that it's sort of in the family, but I don't know if that's a fair way to put it. I think also Kevin and I influenced each other playing together. You know, we listen intently to each other and what we were playing and respond accordingly. I see, yeah. So there is that sort of nuance.

Yeah. So that is a family thing, I suppose. Yeah. So I recently came across this clip. It's like maybe from one of your, earliest gigs at video. I'm sure you probably saw it at some point, but you guys are playing. I mean, you sound like Bauhaus already, you know what I mean? It's like, and it's pretty early in the process, I think you've formed. In the pub? Yeah. It's like a grainy, like a grainy video.

Yeah, the, I think that was it in the racehorse pub. You know, it's kind of from the side looking up. I think it was a Romani pub. I think that was. Yeah, 1979. That was one of the very first gigs. But it's wild to me because you sound, you already sound like the band. Like, yeah, like. Like, If you heard my band early on, you know, it sounds like the band later. Right, right. Yeah. Was that an instant communication thing? It was.

I was the last to join the band because prior to that, I had been in other bands with Daniel, but I would kind of cool the shots to a degree. And I knew that he wanted to cool the shots. and he wanted this, his, this band to be kind of like his band. Not that he's, you know, like, domineering in that way, but he didn't want me involved because he didn't want my strong influence. And I totally understood that. What was his musical vision, say, pre-bos, since you knew him,

what was, who did he want to be or what did he want it to be? Just very stripped down, nothing superfluous, nothing unnecessary. honed like razor sharp just simple direct and I love

all of that minimalism you know but this is 1978 and I'd committed to

go to Germany to play on American air bases with a funk disco band and it's quite good money

and like a regular gig and you live out there so I'd learn like 60 of these funk disco tracks on the bass.

And this was a couple of days before I was used to go to Hamburg. And Daniel Notta on my door and asked me to join the band. Now, just prior to that, he'd asked if I would come down to their rehearsal room and just give my opinion, especially of the singer. Because Daniel, he wasn't entirely sure about the singer. I don't know why he wasn't sure. mainly I suppose because Peter had never sung before not on the stage you know he he was working in a printers factory and he was Daniel's best mate at school and he looked great and that's the main reason that

Daniel is such an incredible voice it's such just I know he could have been the worst singer in the world I know and he could have got away with it but so I go down there to check him out and I'm just completely blown away by this kid, you know. And then Daniel at the end of it, he sidles up to me. He says, what do you think? I said, Daniel, he's solid gold. Come on. He's like so charismatic and he's got a great voice.

Yeah. So, yeah, I was really impressed. And I like also the music. And it was that kind of honed, simple minimalism. And I so wanted to be a part of it, Billy. But I couldn't say anything. You know, it's like, fair enough. Yeah.

But he came out, and I'm so glad he did, Daniel. How much longer after you saw them sort of, that's called triage? Like, two weeks. Okay. Isn't it interrupt, but it interesting because I have moments like that where it's like, your life could have gone a totally different direction if it wasn't for that thing happening. Oh, absolutely. That's where it feels faded to me, you know?

When you say that, it's like, that's the stars aligned. you're like, because your brother's already playing. Yeah. You seem like a no-brainer now in hindsight, but at the time it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, it's very true. Your brother could have been like, I don't want my brother in the band, and that would have been the end of it, right? Yeah, I could have mean.

But I think it's interesting as well in that all that sort of homeschooling that I did with the funk and the disco, it came out. And it comes out into Bauhaus, but in a kind of, I call it twisted disco. It comes out, but it's, you know, there's some disco bass lines there. Some real funk bass lines. Yeah. Things like kicking the eye in fear, fear, dancing.

It's there, you know. But I think it's only there because I did that intensive, you know, session. Well, to Fanboy for a second, to me, Bauhaus is one of the greatest bands ever. So that's easy for me to say. And what makes it so interesting to me in hindsight, is like all the great bands, there's something about the amalgam of the influences and the personalities. It just works.

It shouldn't. It shouldn't, but it does. And I think it's easy now in hindsight to recognize that. So bear with me, it's a little long-witted. But when I, 2001, I'm living in New York, and I knew the guys from New Order a little bit. I met Hooky even before the Pumpkin's first album, so I knew him a little bit. And I get this call at home, and they're asking me to come to England because they're reforming New Order, and they're making a record, and they want me to be on the record, which was curious to me, why, but I did go.

So that begins my maturation process of getting to know New Order, the people, the band. Now, as a New Order fan, I'd always completely overly intellectualized who they were, why they were, why they did what they did. And when I got around them, I realized I was completely wrong. They're completely intuitive creatures. It's not to say they lack intelligence. They're actually very bright guys, all of them. But I'd always figured there was like they would sit around and talk about Kierkegaard or some shit and then do the songs. And there's none of that with them. Mostly it was like we, you know, I'd say, how did you guys work? How we just do cocaine for three days? Of course, they call it Charlie. We'll do Charlie for three days. And whatever came out, that's what came out. And I'm thinking like, I mean, you're not talking about Dada. You know, And I mean, it's like I had, and I think I did the same thing with you guys. So the setup on the question is, did you guys have an intellectual kind of conversation at the beginning? You are named for an art movement. Yeah.

No. I love it. No. We never discuss it. To me, that makes it even more brilliant because whatever came out of it had such an aesthetic underpinning. And I'm not saying it was just the visuals and the name. It's in the music.

Yeah. With the name Bahas, you. I came up with that. And why I came up with that. What a great name. Yeah. I applied it to the original school in Vyma and their ideology. And that was about, you know, everything stripped down.

Everything is functional. It's the functional as the art and streamlined. And I just thought, this is kind of what we're doing in music. So it resonates, you know. So you're the intellectual overlay. Well, everybody, you know, has a leaning in that area to a degree. Yeah. I came up with the name, having been to art school.

Danny was an art school as well, because I was my brother. And Peter Neely went to art school. Yeah. We're all, you know, of that. I just find it fascinating because there's such a depth in the aesthetics of Bauhaus' musical output. Mm. And it's, you know, it's varied, and obviously there's a ton of influences. But it just, it blows my mind that when I started.

listen to you guys when I was 17, 18, that there was no, like you guys didn't sit around and talk about, I don't know, Dali or something, you know, it just blows my mind because I got that out of the music. We would sit around and talk about Dali and Dada. But you know what I'm saying. But we wouldn't apply it to the music. We never talked about the music. Only after we'd done it.

Yeah. And it was whether it was any good or not. So give me a, give me a, you can be specific or general, how does the, how does the band work in its prime. Like somebody comes in, I got an idea and everybody just does what they want to do. Like how did it actually function from writing to recording? Because, sorry, more bloviating here, but what strikes me, and again, I've been listening since 84, what strikes me is if there's such variance in production, approach, and, you know, of course you guys get the moniker of the goth thing, but there's humor, there's unexpected things.

Your B-sides are some of the coolest B-sides ever because it sounds like you guys just have a laugh. Like, the band didn't take itself too seriously. At least that was my impression. No, it's true. So. Sometimes we did. Yeah, but I'm, you know what I'm saying.

But I'm saying, when people try to tell me my music is depressing, it's like, I'm in a band called The Smashing Pump. It's how depressing can it be, right? It's a joke. Right, right. So what my point is is, just walk me through as a fan, me being the fan, walk me through, you know, a prototypical,

somebody shows up with an idea and here's how it ends up on the record. Yeah. I really want to know the, the fascination for me as a fan is, how did it work politically? Yeah. Okay. We would, as I say, we did not discuss it, and we would often turn up without any ideas at all.

Even better. And we wouldn't even talk to each other, and we'd just be, we'd pick up our instruments and just start playing. Um, with Bella, I mean, I'd written those lyrics. the day before and that's all we had and i hand you that a sheet of those lyrics to peter and then it's a good example actually to illustrate what i'm talking about because then we all just started

making this row you know and out of the row it it something emerges it's sort of out of the fog and um and what emerged that time was daniel the sounds that daniel was and and those chords, that descending chord, which he, the chord sequence that he actually got from Gary Glitter, rock and ball. Yeah. That was, because I asked him about it afterwards, and that was what was in his head, but it kind of mutated and became weird, and then he added the echo. And then Kevin plays, of all things, of Boston over, because that was something that

that he'd learned from his jazz teacher, you know. He only knew two rhythms, and that was one. So he started playing that, and it fits so perfectly. And then when we added the echo to it, it becomes something other. It becomes, you know, boss and over in dub. And then I just, I listened and I heard that descending bass line. And I played it. It's not just single notes, it's actually octaves.

And it all just gelled together. And it was a shivery moment when that all happened together. And then Peter starts to intone those lyrics. pretty much as you hear it on the record. Wow. And we just knew we had something magic. Okay, so take me in the studio, because that was your first single. So continue to example.

So are you guys the type of band like, you do what you do, I'll do what I do and everybody kind of leaves each other on, or is there everybody got an opinion? Everybody's certainly got an opinion. And it's open to anybody doing anything. Okay. And we don't have to stick to our given instruments. You know, we can do whatever. Just suggest the idea or try it, you know, see if it.

works. As we went on, it became a bit more structured in that we would bring ideas for songs to the band. Sometimes, like, something that's half written with the chords and the lyrics and everything. Or sometimes somebody, Daniel comes in, he's got some accord progression, and I've got some lyrics, or Peter's got some lyrics, and we just throw it all together. And quite often it worked. Yeah. Very spontaneous. It feels that way. That's why I think it's fascinating for me because if you're saying we didn't sit around and talk about how to do, we just did it. Yeah.

And then the results are so strong. There's such as must have been a strong intuitive sense that we're headed the right direction collectively. Yeah, very much so. Do you ever look back and sort of, I don't know, I'm not talking about it in a sentimental frame, but like, I guess what I'm looking for is is magic sometimes. It's like stuff just kind of happens. It's quicksilver. Absolutely. That, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And there was a particular chemistry with that band. That's why I say, where you guys are one of the great bands, because there's something about the four communications. Yeah. That really holds very strongly across all the work. Yeah.

And there was also part and parts of it was a personal friction. Okay. But I'm not a gossip guy, but give me the sense of the. The politics of the fiction maybe is a better way to ask the question. Like in my band, this might shock people. In my band, I actually wanted a democracy. Yeah. I just figured out very quickly that that was not going to work.

Part of that was I was writing most of the songs. So at some point, you just start to start to assert power because it's your songs. Yeah. But I wanted to be challenged. I wanted people to come in with a better song than me. I literally would beg my mates to write stuff. They just weren't interested or it wasn't part of their sort of DNA. So I never had to necessarily live in that type of political atmosphere.

But, you know, every band, you know, to make you laugh, it's obvious to me listening to the band, yes, that as far as Heath saw it, is Chris Squire's band because the bass is loud. And he's basically kind of running the shop on the musical side of the equation. Now, if you asked John Anderson, who I've met, a lovely guy, he probably thought it was his band with Chris Squire. But for me, from having been in bands, we've been in bands, I look and I go, no, Chris Squire thought it was his band. Does it make sense the way I'm asking? Yeah, I understand, yeah.

And I'm not saying who was Bauhaus's band, but I'm saying, how did it work politically when you had friction? Yeah, we never had that kind of attitude. We all had the attitude that it is a democracy and it's our band. Okay. And everybody's really important. Okay. You know. Was there ever a moment where it was like, they were like, but you sure are brothers.

Did you get that? No. Because in my band, you know, James and Darcy were a couple. Yeah. So sometimes when we get into political stuff, they would vote as a block. No. That wasn't the case of us at all. Okay.

Sorry. I keep interrupting you. But I'm really curious on how the band worked politically because. Yeah. I mean, it's complicated. Yeah. Well, for start, we had the old thing of, you know, the singer is singled out, you know, and people just like, when the press came in to the picture, they just want to talk to him.

Yeah. You know, this thing. And it rubbed us up the wrong way. And, you know, you just sort of, you harbor this kind of, you'd be grudge it to a degree. And then the other side of that is, you know, Peter Peter kind of enjoyed that that being in the limelight

and did not shy away from it fair enough but it went a bit far you know so there's that it's a very common story with bands you know and there was a kind of separation there it was you know

us three over here and him over there did you feel looking back now I mean I don't know where everybody is at the moment But looking back now, do you have more empathy for that? Or do you see it as kind of annoying? I have more understanding of it. Yeah, in a way there's empathy. Because the way I look at it, because I try not to personalize,

because sometimes I'll see these types of things happen in other artists. And I try not to project my own feelings. I just try to think that must have been unique. Like, for example, being around, you know, Nirvana, circa 92. you know, suddenly it was all about one guy. I knew behind the scenes it's not really how it operated, and I knew everybody a little bit. Yeah.

But you could see that, you know, the magnetism of the moment, you know, sort of starts to pull people in a different direction. Sure. Yeah, that's an extreme example there than one you just mentioned. Sure, but I just use it to illustrate the example that it's like, you know, history has a way of picking certain people. Yeah.

Yeah. And also, I mean, I have to say, you know, Peter is not the easiest person to work with. Do tell. He's brilliant, but, you know. Yeah. Can you quantify that a bit in a, like a working musician way? What makes him difficult? God.

Again, that's complex. I mean, I know I know I'm just a little bit because we spent a little time together. obviously a very strong personality. Yeah. Yeah. He sort of has a tendency to lean towards the paranoid, admit, you know,

and see things that aren't necessarily there. And prejudice is not there. And take it personally. And that causes a lot of problems. And it's something that isn't even talked about until it's resolved. in some fracal, something very undesirable. Yeah, just a big personality clash.

But you see, how we would work this out is that we would go on stage and we would direct all that frustration on both sides into the music and the performance. And it would be a kind of exorcism. And it would be very extreme and very intense. And we'd come off the stage and we'd be best mates again. until the next game or the bus ride to the gig where somebody

says something inappropriate and then it all starts again first time I heard you guys I was dating this woman and she was staying at somebody's apartment or something and I'd spent the night so imagine I've had a bit of a long night

with this person and she gets up and she pops a cassette in and the song she's playing is to a couple, Kerr couple, kill colonel. That's right. I say that five times fast.

And I have, and I still have a holographic memory of being in this foreign apartment, and I'm thinking, what is she playing, and why is it so out of tune? Now, I grew up with a musician father, you know,

and I was already playing music a bit. And I just remember thinking, why would, somebody want to listen to this music. You know, I had like a, like an almost allergic reaction to it. And severe, like, almost like, and I didn't think it was terrible. I was just like, why would anyone want to listen to this? And I swear to God, the next day I woke up and I was like, I want to listen to that again.

Oh. And I was in. I literally went from, eh, and 24 hours later I was like, I need to listen to this band again. And then I was like, every song, every album. Yeah. Well, we would lean into the eternal. But isn't it, I don't know, I'm almost asking myself the question, but I find it fascinating that it hit me so sideways that I couldn't let it go. Right. I had no means by which to process it.

Because I had a musician father, was a very good musician. So in his world, it would have been like, well, why is the guitar out of tune? Or why is the bass player not really playing a rhythm? Yeah. You know, you know, what, what is it? happening? What is this arrangement? Yeah. You know, all that stuff.

Yeah. Well, a big thing for us was not doing the obvious and not being rock. Yeah. And not being predictable and just sort of cookie cutter to go against the grain of that. If we came up with something that was, it sounded too, it sounded too, we'd say too straight. Too straight. then we'd hit up. Yeah. On purpose.

We really like Devo and we like their approach to music in general. Kind of de-evolutionary. Early Devo. Yeah. Yeah. And just looking at instruments in a very conventional way. I mean, Daniel's always being brilliant at that. Yeah.

You know, a guitar is not necessarily something that you use strum. You know, you can hit it with a stick. Yeah. Whatever it takes to get the right sound. out of the thing. It's probably an unfair question, but is there an intuitive sense or an intellectual sense where you go, oh, this is too straight? Like, how do you, how do you come to that decision? Because listening to your music, you know, over this long period of time, you've, again and again and again chosen the unconventional path. It just becomes glaringly apparent.

And then we just, we would immediately act to rectify that situation. But is it, I, I, I, bad analogy, but in my mind, sometimes when I'm trying to do deconstructionist music, I call it janga. I'm trying to remove pieces until it's like, if you know anything about what's, what is the thing, homeopathy, you know, the concept of homeopathy, where you take something and you cut it so many times that if you actually scientifically measured, the germ is not even in, not even scientifically, but somehow it retains in essence, you take something which is supposed to be inert and you get the benefit effect of your body recognizing it as an allergen. Yes.

So it's like removing musical components to it. It's almost like a skeleton of the original idea. It retains some imprint of the original inspiration, but you've somehow mangled it or twisted into something unfamiliar. A distillation. Okay. Yeah, refine, refine. But I'm asking for a process.

Is there a process that you have or is just a felt process? It is felt, but it is that process of taken away. So it's kind of like sculpture in a way. Oh, okay. We're not adding, we're taken away. Yeah. And then what is like, quite often in the studio, we'd be hearing a track back and we'd think, we wouldn't think what can we add to this.

We'd think what can we take away from this. Yeah. That was pretty key, actually, from our house. Yeah. Yeah, it strikes me in a lot of your work, there's a minimalism. And I think that's not the right word, but maybe what I'm after is. I'm always impressed by how confident your musical life has been to let things be simple or imperfect or just be what they are. Doesn't make sense?

And that's not a slight to say imperfect. It's like it doesn't sound like somebody took 45 takes to get the vocal just right. They just, they sang it and that's the take. You know what I mean? Yeah, because it's authentic. Okay, so that's what I'm after. Authenticity is very important. Where did you get that confidence?

Because most young musicians don't have that kind of confidence. We were so confident. Yeah, we just knew what we wanted. Yeah. We knew that we were good. Yeah. I found this quote from Andy Gill, who was at the think at the time, an M.E columnist. He called you guys a hip, black Sabbath.

Oh, I'll take that. It's kind of a compliment, really, too. Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, as we sit here in 2026, goth has become kind of its own phenomenon fashion there's goth bands of plenty all provisive right of course they did they call it goth back then no was their word no it was not so just sitting here now i mean do you these kind of early days of what became you know an idiomatic thing and how do you reflect on it now um as i know to me as a fan you guys are way more

than goth, but that's sort of what, you know, the lazy writer's just going to call you guys a goth. Yeah. Well, it was post-punk, and that term was around, and we didn't mind that at all. And it was, I mean, punk was very influential. That was, you met, you met, very early on in this interview, you asked about, you know, those moments. Yeah. One of those moments, big time for me, was seeing the sex pistols and the clash at the 100 Club in 1976 with my brother. With my brother, and being in that audience saying to Kevin, we got a, this is the way. And we formed a punk band there and then and played like two weeks later. And Daniel was into that whole thing as well.

He almost joined that band, but that's another story. But that punk evolved very quickly and it became a form that could be. influenced by all sorts of genres and all sorts of influences. And I think that was a really great period for music, like 1978, 79. Bands like the pop group, you mentioned Andy Gill, the other Andy Gill in a gang of four. Bands in the States like Perubu. Just a very exciting, kind of expansive... music that was reaching for the stars, you know.

There was not the, there was no limitations imposed on it. It was necessary for limitations to be imposed when punk was happening. Yeah. Because it was like ground zero. Everything had to be burnt down and then, oh, I see. Reconstructed in a very simple way. Yeah.

Okay, we've established this now. Now we can expand on it. Yeah. You know. Yeah, even like, thinking of like even Gary Newman, who kind of took some aspect of the Bowie thing and kind of blew it out the other side. Yeah, and again, with Gary, it's very streamlined, very minimal.

Yeah, there's a beauty there. I didn't know you guys at Toured American in 1980, you know, that strikes me. Yeah, that must have been interesting. I saw that, I saw that. Yeah, wax tracks. Well, you guys were beloved in Chicago. I think that's the atmosphere that I first encountered you in.

It wasn't like some girl had a tape and I listened to you. Like once I was on to you, me, suddenly there were Bauhaus fans everywhere that I knew in the world that I was inhabiting in. And the wax track scene was intrinsically tied to Europe. But I know you guys had been to Chicago. Yeah. But just if you can reflect on America, because it seems to me it's, the UK's funny, and I'm sure you guys got plenty of stick for being weirdos, but coming to America in 1980,

doing what you're doing. That must have been like coming in from Mars. Yeah, yeah. The truck stop, some of the trucks start was pretty hairy. Yeah, yeah. We were actually pursued on a couple of occasions by irate truckers. Probably some of my

relatives, yeah. But if you can give me a musical snapshot, you know what I mean? Because again, I think you guys are so fully formed out of the egg. So I know the music was really good. I'd have to go try to find bluelegs or something. But so I know you guys are up there doing your thing and there's real strength there.

Are you seeing something in the American crowd yet? Or is it too early? Like, I'm just looking for a snapshot impression. Well, the first city that got us and got into us was New York. That's the first place we went to in America. And there was a connection there certainly. And one of the other places, what's Chicago, of course. New York

So we had a wonderful first day in New York Introduction to New York City We're staying at the Iroquois hotel Famous Rock and Roll Hotel And the first day we're in there Of course we will make a B-line for the little bar And it was just us in there

And the bartender There was one vacant store Which was soon occupied by Iggy Pop Who of course was one of our All right. He ordered a beer, you know, in that voice. And we heard the voice. And so we were kind of nudging each other.

And he cottoned on to this. He said, hey, guys, you look like you're in a band, you know. You're in a band? Yeah, yeah. What's the band? And I said to a bar house. He goes, oh, like Weimar, Germany. Cool.

And then we engaged with him. And he was not disappointing. He said that he would come and see us because we had two gigs lined up. One little club, tier three, I think it was called, tiny little place, and then Dancer Tierra. Okay. In the interim, we were going up to Toronto and to Chicago. And then we went back to New York. And the plan was to create a buzz with his first gig and hopefully sell out Dan Satir, which was a bigger gig.

and it was the gig to play at the time, which happened. What would that happen? So we get back to New York and play danceateria. And there, down the front, is Ziggy Pop. He's a black leather bikers jacket, baiting Peter. So come on, my love. Bring it, you know.

Bring it. And he was there through the whole gig. And then we come off. And so we're like, hey, that was Ziggy down the front, right? And all the door bursts open. comes in like a kung fu guy. Hey guys, that's great. I saw the name.

I was in a car. I saw a name, Bowhouse. And I remember you guys from the whole time. I thought, okay, I'll check them out. I said to the driver, keep the motor running because these guys,

they think they're in, but probably, man, and I'm probably going to be back soon. But I'm here, and he's still out there. So there you go. Wow. So, yeah, that was great. That was a nice affirmation.

Well, see, that's Providence, right? Yeah, I mean. It's meant to be. Me. Meant to be, yeah. Because we had some big influences in America as well as like the T-Rex. Yeah. Bally.

Velvet Underground, probably the biggest. Sure, yeah. And MC5 and the Stooges. Yeah. All of those bands. Did you ever get to know Lou at all? No. Do you ever meet him?

No. John Cale. And Nico. Yeah. I saw you guys play with Nico. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nico wanted us to be her backing band. That would have been a regular band, you know.

That would have been amazing. After she'd sung with us a couple of times. Yeah. Did you consider it? We considered it for about 20 minutes. Would it could or should have? It would have been amazing. I mean, like, it probably didn't make any sense in reality.

But musically, that seems so perfect. Well, I was telling the story to a friend the other day, and she remarked that it would have been very interesting if we'd gone into the studio with her and did something at that time. This was like 1981. Yeah, yeah. With that atmosphere? Yeah, maybe with John K.

Are you, there you go. I knew Lou a little bit. He liked me for some reason, which, you know, he was such an intimidating presence. I can imagine. But for some reason, he liked me. So whenever I saw me, he was really sweet to me. All right, yeah. And then I would, this is in the time when I was being interviewed a lot.

And I'd sit down to face. interviews and the interview would end and they go, that was tough. I go, what do you mean? You're really tough to interview, you know what I mean? You're the, and this happened multiple times, so this isn't a one-time story. You're the second toughest

interview I've ever done. I would go, who the first? Lou. Really? Oh yeah. Lou would just torture these people. You would lacerate them and just play games. Amazing. God bless Lou. Defined

for me, if you know, because I saw it in reference to you the exquisite corpse technique. Do you know this technique? Of course. Okay, please tell me. Because I'd never heard of it before. I was the one that brought it to the band. And it's a surrealia, kind of a surrealist parlor game, if you will. Okay. And it's based on the old thing of consequences, a consequences drawing where you fold a sheet of paper into four. My kids who are in other room, they love doing that. Okay. They do it all the time. And somebody draws the head, continues the neckline down, then somebody then folds it over and they show. knows it.

Would you record that way? Yeah. Ah. So you pass it to the next person and they did. Didn't Bo we do that on load too? Something similar. Do you know about that? I don't know.

I think what I heard is that is Visconti was there and Eno was there. They would bring in somebody like Fripp and they wouldn't play and what other people had done. Yeah. I've heard of that. Yeah. But we would, yeah, more specifically apply the exquisite court's idea to music in that the first time we did that was that we would have a, and allotted time of one minute to do whatever we wanted, and we'd have four tracks total,

and we'd have a pre-recorded, a beat that goes through the whole thing. Yeah, so that's your unifier. Yes, exactly, for five minutes. And then each of us would take turns without hearing what the other person had done and record their part. And the last five minutes, which was real fun, was that we would have two tracks each, and we'd each just record two tracks,

that related to the whole minute that we just done. And then we just, the moment of revelation, play it back. And it was extraordinary how we did that a couple of times, how that worked out. Is there a song you can point to that's the best example that I got to hear this? Or I know it.

Yeah. On the third album. I think it's called it Squisite Cool. There's a track that uses that technique. Yeah, that sounds so cool. It struck me at the time when I was listening to you in a contemporary frame when the band was still intact before Breakup One, that you kind of seemed to exist in your own atmosphere,

which I know isn't true, but that's what it felt like to me. But what was your awareness of other groups? You know, some groups are hostile to, other groups they're overly ambitious like what was the once you guys kind of got took off and started running what was your sort of logic in the time we were kind of

in our own little corner and we didn't really hang out with other bands as such kind of got that feeling yeah we were our own little gang yeah well that's what Pete Townsend says it says people are attracted to gangs yeah they want to hang out in the band because they want to be in the gang is what he told me.

Yeah. I mean, we were very aware of other groups and we had great respect for some of those groups like Joy Division

and the pop group. Yeah. And the birthday party who we took on tour with us. And they were so impressive. I mean, my brother and I would go out and watch them practically every night.

We did like 20 days. with them and just be blown away. They were much better than Bad House at that time. I would beg the difference. I felt they should have been headlining. Just so exciting. Just so, it was wild and abandoned and just sort of, we'll talk about Etonal and,

but they would all, if they went veered off wildly to the left, they'd all do it. I see. They'd veer off, back to the right, they'd all do it. And it would just be like this machine, you know. Yeah, very impressive. But they were, they were such a little gang all to themselves. Well, I definitely got that vibe.

Yeah. So how ambitious was the band? Like, because with anything that's artistically rooted, at some point, the reality of the record business is staring in front of you. You know, do you work with the big producer? Do you sell out? You know, I mean? Yeah.

How ambitious was the band? We had huge ambition, but we really wanted to do it on our own terms. And we weren't a verse to commercial suicide. Much of the chagrin of our record label. Yeah. You know, yeah, we wouldn't, we couldn't play that game. Yeah. No, it has to be authentic.

That's the main thing. It's always been the main thing. Yeah. And that runs through everything I've done. The song, All We Ever Wanted was Everything, comes to mind, which sort of rings true within the context of the conversation. And the reason I bring it up is I performed with you guys once on stage, which was a great honor. Peter said, it might have been you, I feel like it was Peter, but said, what do you want to sing? And I said, all we ever wanted was everything.

And it's like, you guys were like, but all of you were like, sure. We aren't playing it currently, but we'll just do it. Yeah. And then Peter was insistent that I sing telegram Sam with you guys. And I kept thinking this is a bad idea, but okay. No, that works. But my memory of the gig, beyond that you guys were so gracious and nice and cool, which didn't surprise me, but it was nice to meet people that you like. And then at that time, my public vibe in Chicago was very poor, probably because I've been running my mouth too much.

So I don't remember how I was brought on stage, but when I came out on stage, I think it was at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, I walked down on stage and the whole crowd did one of these like, oh, I hear him groaning. Like, because in Chicago, the OG goth crowd and the OG post-punk crowd was all out there and forced to see you guys.

So I didn't have a lot of love from that crowd at the time. So when I walked out, there was this kind of audible groan. And I knew it was going to happen. And the beautiful memory that I have, you were there too, but is the merging of my high voice with Peter's low voice and us singing together, you could have heard a pin drop. It was so beautifully like, wow, this is really working. And it was that chill that you get in the air sometimes we're like, you don't hear a sound. It went from groaning to absolute still quiet. And when the song ended, it was like one of those, like, it even took like four seconds for people to applaud.

And it was like this kind of. Yeah. It was a good choice of song. Oh, God bless. Well, you guys wrote it. But that's my enduring memory of that moment. It was, I guess what I'm saying to you personally is, is you honored me by bringing me out there. But also it was a way to say, you to this crowd who was treat me quite poorly because I, myself, had made some really severe artistic choices.

Yeah. And because I was going that way, as you do, sometimes when you don't go against the crowd, you know, I was getting a lot of stick at home. Because I'd gone out in the world and been successful. Now I'm coming back kind of beaten down. I mean, during that, you're embracing the essence of boughs as well. Well, God bless, but I mean, you're, for lack of better word, your public endorsement of having me up there with you was like a way of saying to all you f*** off. You know, like if my heroes are willing to have me up here, what you think about me is you're kind of missing the mark. Yeah.

When we started, I mean, we got a lot of resistance, and we really relished kicking against that. It was very inspiring. It was much better than if, you know, everybody accepted us and they were going nuts about us straight from the off. Yeah. The resistance, you know, that's the thing that friction, you know, it makes the pearl in the oyster, you know. Oh, yeah, what they call the sand in the oyster? Yeah. It brings to mind when you guys did Ziggy Start Us, because.

because as the story goes, please correct me that you guys were being compared to Bowie, you're ripping off. So you guys were like, okay, we'll just do Ziggy Stardust. Oh, that was a big part of that. That's for sure. So fantastic, yeah. If you could just talk loosely about however you want, but like we've talked about T-Rex, we've talked a little bit about Bowie.

We talked a little bit about Velvet Underground. But I always thought it was so cool that you guys had no problem paying tribute to your heroes. Like you would wrap your arms around them, no problem. where a lot of bands try to pretend they don't have any influences. It seems to be a particular condition with alternative bands. They act like they never heard of another band. Or if they pick a band, it's always

some band from 27 years ago. But you guys were like fully willing to embrace. Yeah. Yeah, we wore those loves on our lives, yeah, for sure. Can you talk about that a little bit? Was that just something you were... Not every band has that logic, so I'm just curious for your guys' logic.

I think it's really important to be a fan, you know, and to embrace that and to celebrate it and to recognize it, you know, pay homage to it. Do you know at the time when that came out, if David had any reaction at all to it or do you like it? We didn't know at the time. Yeah. I did hear second hand that he said, I don't know if this is apocryphal or not that he said, I should have done it like that.

I really hope that's true. Sounds about right. Sounds about right. Sorry, I had a bug on me. Only the finest on my set. Wow, the bug's really out to kill me. Some drone, is it? Some mini drone.

That would be funny, right? I'd forgotten about this, and then it all came back to me a flash. You guys being in The Hunger movie. Did you cross pass with David on the movie? I mean, so one else thing you just got... No, I had a wonderful interaction with him.

So this was a break during filming and they're setting it up for the next scene. Yeah. Now, we, Bauhaus, we had this little kind of

holding area that was right opposite Bowie's dressing room and in the area there was a jukebox and our world it's a beautiful thing stacked with 45s,

great or great cuts 50s, 60s, 70s. so and it was all working so when um when we could we would play records and i just found myself there on my on my own and i was going to play a record and i'm looking at all these great uh singles and i became aware of a looming presence behind me very strong presence yes you know and then i heard that voice yeah do you mind if i picked one and i turned and i said i'm and i was really intrigued to see him he played.

So he looks and punches the buttons. And what he played was groove him with Mr. Blow. I don't know that one. It's a instrumental from 1970. It's a great track. Real up kind of beat. And he starts dancing in front of me, like full on.

Yeah, but arms in the air, you know, and just spying that style. That 10,000 megawatts style. Yeah, really. And does eye contact you and just for the whole of the song I'm just there thinking how surreal is this you know

but then I got cheeky with him because I remembered it's kind of like this hubris that comes from being very nervous and that's how it came out when Lowe came out I always thought that he'd cribbed the harmonica part

on the track a new career in a new town from grooving with Mr. Blum and I said to him this reminds me of something he goes oh yeah what I said it's one of yours he goes What? Which one?

I said it's off for low He goes come on Which one? I said a new career In a new town With that He put his finger to his lips And winked

And carried on Dancing And then when the song finished He walks by means Pats me on the shoulder So that was wonderful You know Yeah

He was something He was something He was amazing I'm still trying to kind of put all those, you know, I had various encounters with him, and I'm still trying to put those pieces together. Because I think he operated at so many levels that's sort of like, it's still hard to understand all of it. Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, his work is still kind of being figured out in a way. Yeah. Yeah. And what a wonderful gift he left us with that black star.

What strikes me most about him as an artist is kind of like a Velvet Underground. He inspired so many people in so many different directions. Yeah. It's like he gave a whole generation of kids' permission to just be whoever they wanted to be. Yeah, really true. And in a way, you could kind of crib from him and you could almost pay tribute,

but it almost felt more like tribute or honoring him than like stealing. Yeah. You know, and he was kind of cool with that because he did it himself. So it was all part of the tradition. Yes. You know what I mean?

Just walk me through because they were kind of getting into the part where the band starts to get funky here. But she's in parties, just amazing single. But there's this sense and I did it from research, but Peter's sick, so he's not at the sessions as much and maybe this starts to become what becomes love and rock.

It's like you guys kind of almost become more of a team without him. And can you just walk me through that a little bit? Yeah, Pete's he was very ill in hospital with pneumonia. And we had the session booked at Rockfield Studios in Monmouth for that album and we were hoping that

he'd be covering enough to go there but I remember we paid him a visit in the hospital and now my this is my recollection of it is that we said to him you know what do you want us to do Pete

you know should we hold back and wait for you and I remember him giving his blessing say no go go start it and I'll come down and I'll do my bit when I'm ready and better so that's what we did of course we get there and we started I mean it's kind of that album was kind of half written but half of it was written there and then in the studio which was the idea but we were on tour at that time

so you know how it gets you know that the time for writing becomes um very precious and and few and far between. So you end up with like a half written album. I see. And it was kind of exciting. The idea of writing on the spot is exciting as well.

And we did do that. And we came up, Daniel came up with a song where he sang the lead vocal a slice of life. Right. And I came up with a song called Who Killed Mr. Moonlight.

Now originally, I imagined Peter's singing that. And I did like what I thought was a scratch vocal because it was pretty much fully formed that song. I wrote it in the studio, but kind of there on the own. And the engineer said, you know, I think this should be the vocal.

It sounds great. It's your song. So he said, okay, yeah, yeah, that works. Peter can sing some great harmonies on the end, you know. Anyway, so this kind of stuff was going on. So when Peter finally did make it, he did not. like the fact that we'd stepped in to his what he perceived to be, and brightly enough, his position as a singer, you know.

Oh, I see. Yeah, he said, what am I going to do on this? Play the bloody tambourine. If we do this live, I'm like, no, play the tambourine. So it created a bit of a schism there, yeah, for sure. So the band seems to dissipate, well, the band basically dissipates before the outmeat, comes out, right? Isn't it?

Is that accurate? Yeah, it was falling apart in the studio. So what's the, just the simple version we'll do? But like, does something just everybody turns around and says, that's it? I mean, because you guys kind of announced you're going to do this last gig and then there's like a couple gigs and then that's it. There's no big send-off or anything. Well, we had, we had dates booked and we, at this point, you know, we were playing big places now.

and it had gone up, you know, another tier. And I remember we were booked to do a TV show. I can't remember the name of it, but it was a big show at the time, and we were going to play two songs live on this show. And it was a big deal, and the record label were really invested in us during the show. And it's another thing that's going to jettison up us for. Going to the top. Yeah, we're going to talk about most of the pub, most of it.

And I remember we played the gig in London. at the Hampstead Palais and then we're all back at the hotel and we had a huge row I can't remember what it was about probably nothing and we were all in separate rooms and I remember a lot of doors being slammed

a lot of doors slamming going on down the corridors you know and also objects being thrown in rooms and by the end of that that night you know we made a phone call to say we're not doing the TV show wow and we're done

That's it. Played the one more gig and that's it, right? Because you had two gigs, that's at least what I saw. Yeah. The apocryphal thing, and again, it might be, maybe it's a... No, no, I think it's just a TV show that was blown off. Okay. Because there's this bit in there where you were, as you're walking offstage, you say rest in peace.

Yeah. Because we knew. Okay, you do. Anyway, we knew. Okay, I see. But then it was confirmed by the first. track are that followed. So,

we thought we were going to do, okay, we'll just do the TV show and then see how we feel, but it never got that far. I see. But do you, I mean, you guys had only been together

about four years. Yeah. So were you okay with it? It seemed like 20. Yeah, well, that's how those things go. You know,

like you'd look back to your itinerary, you're probably working almost every other day and, you know, so all that stuff. It goes fast. It was that. And just to build, this building friction.

See, when the three of us were there in the studio, you know, it was so easy going. And we were having a real good time. We had this flow going. And it just felt good, you know. And then as soon as Peter did come, I mean, it just kind of caused disruptions again. Do you think people were in his ear trying to do that,

you should go solo thing? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was that as well. Yeah. That's usually part of it. Yeah. And I remember we had, we did have a crate of champagne in the studio that had been put aside for when we finished the album.

And when we did finish the album, we found out there was one bottle left. And Champagne Charlie, Mr. Murphy had necked it. So that didn't go down well either. Okay, so before we get into Love and Rockets, because I do love Love and Rockets as well. Thank you for indulging me on all the Bajo stuff. because you've lived in this schism for so long and the word we I own a professional wrestling company and the word we use in professional wrestling is kabuki

and what kabuki means in professional wrestling is the artifice gets so out there that it no longer is it can no longer be believed does it make sense the way I'm framing it like it's understood professional wrestling is artifice but if it gets too whacked out it almost becomes comical Yeah.

And we call that Kabuki. Oh, okay. So as somebody who's lived in the schism between surreality, reality, art, commerce, you know what I mean? Yeah. How do you view the line of pretense as maybe a better way to put it? It's a weird question, but I figured you would be perfectly suited because you've lived it. I knew early on I was jumping off of whatever artistic ship I was on because I was on. I wanted whatever gold was over the other hill.

I wanted what Led Zeppelin had, you know what I mean? Like, I loved art bands, but I wanted to be Led Zeppelin too, you know. Yeah. If this answers your question, I'm not sure. We never felt that we betrayed desire a quest for authenticity. Yeah. We never did that. No, that's what I'm saying.

So I'm saying you're uniquely voiced because you never did. jump to that other side. No. Well, yes, I agree. But is there a moment where you're in a studio somewhere you're writing a song and it's like, I'm not saying it's the devil on your shoulder? You know what I mean? Oh, we're saying, oh, hold on a minute.

This is not authentic. Sure. Or, well, if I just added this chord, you know, you understand. There's title forces that go on. There's a record company. There's a manager. We once shared the same manager. Yes, we did.

And, you know, he was in my year before I even had an album. Yeah. In fact, he once told me, our mutual manager, he once told me, what is with all this heavy riffing you're doing? Stick to love songs, you're really good at that. And I told me, you don't understand what's happening. I mean, I see this thing coming, and we're like, we're right in the middle of this thing that's coming. And he was like, but you can write pop music.

Like, just stick to that. Yeah. Okay, well, there was one track that we recorded called Sanity Assassin. And it's a very strong track. and it's kind of commercial but without betraying essential authenticity at all

but again it's going back to this whole thing of us and our perception of what is rock and that being a bit of a dirty word back then because it's just too it's just too straight and we had this track

and I remember Martin Mills from the record label Beggars Banquet came down until they hear the playback and that was on the on the tape and it's actually the first thing that came up because we wanted to get it out of the way and now here's the album martin but he heard that and he said stop tape said that's the single that's oh my god that's the single and we had to break it to him that not only is it not single it's not going on the album but we are going to release it as a limited edition of 400 just

for the fan club, which is what we did, you know. Thinking back, I think that was not a good idea. Yeah. And it sounds great, you know, that track. I don't know if that that speaks to what you're asking. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just a rummage around. I know I said this slightly, I said this before in a slightly different way, but when I was young, I was in awe of artists who lived it. So you guys were that, Joy Division was that, Bowie was that.

And I added my own intellectual overlay to that about what it meant. When I got into the record business, and, you know, like a lot of young people do, you know, you get imposter syndrome or is like, do I belong here? My own father didn't think I could be successful. So it's like I had inside, I had somebody in my own ear going, good luck, you're not going to make it. But I found over time, there's a point of this ramble, I found over time that a lot of the people I thought were purists in the game weren't purists at all. They just picked a lane that worked for them. They were never going to be pop stars, so they were going to be independents and act cool and wear the right t-shirt. But they're not lifers.

You know what I mean? And there's plenty of examples where I could point to where it's like the band was, all the integrity in the world when as soon as the record company came calling with the right check or the right opportunity right but you're actually somebody who lived it do you know so you have a unique perspective so whatever you add to that perspective is interesting to me because you actually lived it it's not a it's not an intellectual construct for you you made a decision as a young person as did your brother that you that's who you were going to be and you've been that person the entire time it's not i'm not saying it's a

commitment like a nun. It's just a commitment to something you really believe in. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, it's too much of a speech. It's always been being the case. Yeah. Okay. So, go, please. I was going to say that and that continue with love and rockets. Big time. But there's a dot, dot, dot, at least on first blush, because I was listening from the first, it seemed that you guys were willing to embrace everything that Bauhaus didn't embrace, like catchy choruses and, I'm not saying Bauas didn't have catchiness, but you know what I'm saying? It seemed to be like, okay, we're going to kind of go to the other side of the planet here and play around in the other sandbox. There were psychedelic influences.

There was a little bit more overt pop. Yeah. But I didn't feel like you guys were trying to suddenly be successful. Yeah. It seemed like you just made a decision you just want to play in the other side of the kaleidoscope or something. We really wanted to be successful. But it wasn't that we, that was our main, the driving factor. You mentioned psychedelia.

See, Daniel and I were really into psychedelia, you know, going way back. And Peter, it wasn't something that was shared with Peter. He wasn't really into that. So, therefore, because a band is a democracy, it was somewhat oppressed, you know, that that influence. And then when Peter was not a part of this new band, that came out big time. And also, it worked very well with the kind of zeitguise that. time. There was the whole Paisley underground happening in San Francisco, mid-80s, you know, and there was a kind of a real kind of rediscovery of great 60s psychedelia, bands like love,

Sid Barra. And we loved all that stuff, you know. And it was the kind of music that Daniel and I would listen to on a cassette in the car away from Peter. We'd blast early Pink Floyd and things like that. Uh, 13th floor elevators. So that came out at a big time And it was a joyous kind of like Expression of that influence And we just We just found that we had a natural proclivity

To come up with melody And we were into melody The Beatles as well We're into the psychedelic beetles And all of that came into play And we had a very important component in this Was John A Rivers Who was the engineer

co-producer on the first two albums, and he had a studio in limited spa, Woodbine Studios, and John was very much O'Fey with all of that psychedelia, and he was a great keyboard player and a great arranger, and he kind of became a fourth member of the band. I didn't know that, yeah. And he was a very important factor in the whole progression of the band.

Yeah. The decision to sync together a lot, You kind of sort of form this one voice. Yeah. You know, and it reminds me when I first heard Lyndon McCartney, I didn't know there were two late singers. I just remember them singing together and Meet the Beatles when I was a kid. And the sound of that, you know, whatever happens with, you know, phasing and comb filtering.

But it was like you guys made this interesting choice to sing a lot of the songs together. Yeah. It was different to the Beatles in that it wasn't really harmony singing that we were doing. Although harmony, there are some harmony. But there's a lot of unison, right? Yeah, just we're seeing the same thing. So it's almost like, you know, double tracking, but two different voices. Yeah, but was that a, I hate to say, it was a decision, but like how'd you arrive at that maybe is a better question?

When we first got together to rehearse, we just, without talking about it, we had the, I remember the lyrics to the couple of songs that we had on the wall. and we both sort of dived in to sing these lyrics and we, it wasn't sort of competitive or anything. We were both singing the lyric, but nobody backed off. And then we very quickly realized, oh, this blend, there's a blend here. Yes, it really works. And it's very strong.

And also, I think, what figures in this whole thing is that we had to, talking about competition, in a way, we had to compete with a very strong singer in Peter. Yeah. Well, he got out of the gates as a soul artist, he got out of the gate's pretty strong. But in the band, you know, that's such a strong voice. And so we've got to follow it with something that's not strong in the same way,

but strong in another way. And I think that natural double tracking effects worked really well in that regard. Yeah. I actually saw Peter on his first solo tour. And I love Peter. So I don't mean this as criticism, but I was struck by, it's like he almost didn't know what to do. without you guys. And I'm not saying he was sorry for your absence.

It's like he didn't know how to be, like, let's call it the lead singer without a band. The ego version of the lead singer. Like it's all about the singer, like a Tom Jones or something. It's like he didn't know, you know, he had good musicians who just kind of stood there, but they didn't have your guys just charisma and gravitas. And it was kind of a weird gig to watch because- Well, chemistry. Thank you.

So something got lost in him not being able to bow. bounce off you guys or something. And I remember thinking this is odd because he had all this momentum that was the single that was doing really well. And it was even on MTV. Yeah. It was this kind of, he had that moment out of the gates

where it was like, looked like he was going to be a big solo star. That's all about chemistry. Yeah. Because we, and in Ludd Rockets, we still had that, you know. Yeah. Yeah. How did the, how did the Bauhaus fans that you were sort of,

at least the ones you knew, how did they react to 11 rockets? Did you, was there reflect, anything reflexive to it? Because it's such a different animal to Bauhaus. Um, are you talking about the other bands? How they, no, no, I guess I'm talking about like, you know, sometimes you, you're around long enough, you know a few fans like what you do. Other fans? Yeah, yeah.

Like, did they, did they take to 11 rockets or? Yeah, pretty much. And I think we, I mean, we went in a certain direction that those fans felt connected with. They were going through a personal evolution themselves to do with the times what was going on, you know, and it resonated with that. That really dovetails with my experience because I was dating somebody who was super goth and only listened to all the goth. And I remember she had gotten the new album, you know, the first. first one, Love and Rockets. And my first reaction when I put it on was I really, I really liked it and I got it. And I thought the way the guitar was more prominent and all that stuff. And you guys singing together, I was like, I got it right away. Like, oh, this is cool. But I remember almost looking at her thinking, like, do you like this? Because she was a total goff purist. And she liked it. Right. And that surprised me because I was like, I wouldn't necessarily made that intellectual leap. And I think you're right. It was like something was shifting in the culture at the time. Yeah.

Like maybe the narrow definition was expanding out that there could be. Yeah. And it still had a strain of the kind of dark romanticism. Sure. Well, you even saw with the cure is Robert pivoted through different styles. Yeah. That audience followed him. Absolutely.

This is an over-compression of time. I know it didn't happen like this. But the net result of this new venture was that, you know, it seemed much more voiced for America. I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do, but it seemed to catch on more in America than how house and there was MTV and all that stuff and it eventually led to a big song and so alive yeah um did you like you said you want to be successful but did you have that me like wow it's actually happening you know what I mean did you have that moment yeah it was a it was a gradual um assent you know each each album that we well the first of all I mean a first

single which was a cover as you know all a confusion yeah temptation Great club track, by the way. It was a great. Perfect for the clubs. It was a great club track. And we had that in mind, no. We crafted it with the clubs in mind. And it took off. Oh, yeah.

In Canada initially, we got a gold record. And then very quickly after that in the States. And then we started getting offered gigs in the States. And they were decent gigs. And there was an audience there. And then the first album did well. And then each successive album, we're not a step, you know, in popularity, especially in America. Really, America's our place.

Kind of funny, isn't it in a way? You know what I mean? Because Bauhaus really had that moment in England. Yeah. And then now you have this different thing, much different voice. I see why, though, because, I mean, it does, as you alluded to just a minute ago, there was American influence in the music. I never thought about it that way, but it makes sense, yeah. There is, and that came out.

just naturally came out. Yeah. And so it all connects. So jumping forward to our time with the mutual manager. Yeah. Ramey Koffer was his name, is his name. I think we started with him right around the time that so alive was peaking as a hit. Yeah.

And of course he used that as a calling card. Like, look, I took them to the top. But I went and looked up the statistics. Because I remember him bragging it was number one. It was number one, number one modern. number one modern rock but I think he told us it was number one in the world

as only your manager would but I was I was happily surprised to see it was number 14 Billboard so that's quite something you know I mean considering the American charts at the time and that was number three maybe maybe my card is right the proper charts

the proper charts the proper charts really I'm probably wrong I know it was a big record let's put it yeah yeah it was a huge record and this one of those things because it was so big I still hear it like you're in a restaurant and there it is I know yeah you asked about moments there was a particular moment um I recall uh where we were we had a tour set up in 89 when that was it was on the radio and we got to new york and we got on the cab three of us

and the cab driver recognized us and started singing so alive and this is a guy you know like in his 50s you know like a bruce kind of new york Gabby, you know, I know you guys. You know, I'm on the radio. And he starts singing so alive. That's when we knew this wouldn't have happened like last year. Yeah. Yeah, that's the moment.

Do you feel that because Bauhaus, of course, the myth is grown over time and there's been various reunions. Do you feel the people in this point in time totally understand love and rockets? So you feel that that gets a little lost in translation? Well, there are many aspects to that band. And I think on some occasions we were a little bit ahead of our time and it wasn't understood at the time when we went into more electronic or influenced music like A Hot Trip to Heaven, which was early 90s, you know.

And the last album, Lyft was very electronic. And I think both of those records were somewhat ahead of the game there. And also the album, the interim album Sweet FAA which was kind of like a mix of electronic and guitars distorted guitars

and I really hear the influence of that or certainly bands that that coming out now that sound you know like that so I think it's being I think the reputation of

love and rock is is gradually growing Oh, that's good to hear all the time and I get really good positive feedback more and more Yeah, I saw that you did the

There's like a Not a remix but like The sessions from the Sweet FAA album You did like a I don't know what you call it It's in the remix is not the right word It's like a revisiting the sessions

Or Well there was a That was never out on vinyl And it really works on vinyl That record Some records work Better on vinyl than others And that one is one of those

And we just had it added outtakes. Right. Who owns the rights to the sweet FAA album, do you know? Is it Rick Rubin's world? No. It's beggars. Oh, it's beggars?

Yeah. And they've never put it on vinyl? Not until recently. Oh, but it is that. Originally, it was on American recordings. Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. But now it was released as part of a box set as well.

Okay. Um, vinyl, very nice. Very good quality. Yeah, very good. I mean, like, the quality of vinyl these days is so great. I was asking because we have our own imprint that we do. Oh, okay. I was fishing.

I was fishing. So take this how you want. It's a bit self-serving, but you can ignore that part of it. But like managing the myth, you know what I mean? As a fan, like, you know, like, you. you know, there aren't enough great hyperbolic words you can use to describe, you know, both bands, Bauhaus and Levin Rockets, love them both, I learned something from both, I got something from both, I stole something from both, but, you know, not, the general public doesn't always understand these things.

But over time, you know, this other thing happens, if the music survives, which it, which it will, of course, and is, a mythology starts to creep in, you know what I mean? and, you know, part of the success of that is managing the mythology. How do you feel about managing the mythology of something like that? Is that too esoteric question? No, not at all.

We're very conscious of that, and we guard it, and we curate it and we nurture it. And we have a very, good, you know, it's great that we have a good relationship with the label in that we're always consulted on anything that's released. And we're very, very picky in that regard. So it's kept in check. Yeah. Do you feel that the, in particular, the Bauhaus reunions, do you feel they've sort of given later generations of fans the right glimpse of the band, or do you feel like it hasn't

quite, I'm just curious for your thoughts on that in reflection. Yeah, I think very positive. And the last time we were out, I think maybe that was the absolute height of the band. I think when we played here in LA at the Cruel World Festival, I think those two gigs were in some ways like the absolute apex. Like, it was just... Well, in many ways the band's never been bigger, at least... No.

We talked about Bauhaus. Just as far as presentation and the way we were playing. And still it had the same kind of intensity and edge. All intact. Yeah. Nothing, nothing of that lost. And I'm very proud of that. When you guys split from Peter, you know, he went one direction whether, like,

I'm not asking what was the negotiation for peace, but what piece needed to be made so that you guys could still make music together? Or is there just time? I think a factor in that is that I had gone on the road with Peter. Oh, that's right. Yeah, the Ruby tour,

which is the 14th anniversary of the first album. In the Flatfield, and we did a lot of dates all over the world. He asked me to come and be a part of that. And his entreaty reached me at the right time. Mind you, I had to put the money up quite a bit. But I did and came on board. And it was a great band, Mark Geminiathaway on guitar.

Marks, a great guitar player. Marks, a great drummer. And we, that was very successful. And from that, we were offered three nights here at the Palladium in L.A. Yeah, not a small gig? No, the, no, the full band. Yeah, oh, the full band, okay, yeah. Oh, yeah, with Daniel and Kevin.

Ah. And everybody was just in the kind of receptive mindset. But I think our tour that I'd done with Peter paved away for that, I did. And it was kind of a, it was a nice kind of easing. I see. For me, and they'd seen me out on the road with him and seeing that got through it. So it all just kind of pandas. out. And we were going to carry on, you know, do a lot of gigs. And we were like, you know,

we're going to play Radio City, New York, really nice venues. Then, of course, COVID. Ah. So it was scuppered until, you know, we finally came out. I typed into chat GPT or one of those things, how many solo albums you made. And it said, 11 to 15. I don't know what that means. It's probably double that. Really? If you include collaborations. Yeah. You've always put out a lot of solo work. So I was curious about that. Because in my situation, you know, when you don't have the name, you know, it's just the interest in the work goes down. It's, I don't know what that is. It's just the way things work. Marketing. So obviously when you go out as just yourself or I go just myself, you know, you know before you begin that you're navigating a different sort of field.

Sure. What has it been about making so much solo music that's kind of kept you focused? It's just the, is it the act of doing it, the joy of doing it? Like, I know it's a weird question now. It seems self-evident as I ask it, but I want to hear it from you. Yeah. It's just the imperative that comes from. wanting to create and it's nothing to do with i mean my audience is like we say it's it's very

niche like super niche and uh and it's very limited but they they're very um appreciative and die hard and it's a real listening audience and uh they're attuned to nuance and subtlety and i have that audience in mind when I'm going when I'm in studio recording. I do it in the back of my head. I have that audience and I know they're out there and it doesn't matter that it's kind of small compared to the band. Yeah and it's not about small or big. It's just it's just about I guess what strikes me is doing work that you feel good about and you believe in but before you even sort of press play you know that the audience is limited just because of the way the world works. Yeah. I mean yeah I think as you get older, at least it has been for me, it's harder sometimes to surmount the courage or the energy.

Because if you just called it something else, just a bigger audience shows up. It has nothing to do with quality. It just because what's the old saying? What's in the name? But I am just, I mean, essentially doing it for myself. I can't do anything about it. It's just, you know, I'm compelled to create all the time. I did see the, I feel like it was an infamous tour, but it was the one where You just guys played under light bulbs. Oh, yeah. I saw that tour. Oh, you did?

Okay. Yeah, it was there. In Chicago. Yeah, it was there. All right, yeah. That was with Max Ida. He's now left us, very sadly. And Owen Jones from jazz butcher group.

Ah, okay. Yeah. I love doing that tour. Yeah. Very stripped down again. I have not read the book. I need to. I have a copy.

I just haven't read it. How has the response been to the book? Yeah, it's been very positive, actually. Yeah, and some, I just heard it sold out, second edition sold out, which is actually the third edition because they slipped out a little secret second edition.

So it's done well, yeah, that book. I need to read this book. And again, that was compelled to write that book to tell the story. It's nothing to do with making money or anything like that. It's just, I have to tell the story. Yeah.

Yeah. The word I would use is, it's a terrible word, but lifer. Of course, she refers to people stuck in jail for their life. But I think certain musicians are lifers and you're a lifer. You know what I mean? You're like, you're in it. You're in it.

Yeah. I saw you. Well, it seems at this point, yeah. I've had many years where I really doubted my sanity. Finally, and I just, I honestly, I do it out of kind of a mutual love, I think. But I was surprised to see it. I'd forgotten that you guys were part of the apocryphal bill where Jane's addiction imploded on stage.

In fact, the last time I saw Daniel was what he was doing some, he was kind of guesting with Jane's Addiction. Yeah. Some tour we were on together. Yeah. He was around. I tried to tell him this story and I'll tell it to you because maybe you'll think it's funny. He didn't think it was that funny.

We played a gig in 1991 in England. It was kind of our, you know, everyone was going to be their gig. Yeah, yeah. Nirvana was there. By the Blue Valentine was there. It was one of those gicked, and Daniel was there. Okay. And my enduring memory of, all these luminaries are in the dress room.

You know what I mean? Everybody. Like, it's like a who's who of 90s grunge and alt. Yeah. And Daniel's there with this French model. And, you know, we're young. So we're talking to her as much as we're talking to him. I don't know.

It's our dresser. And we say, you know, we're trying to be polite. Like, well, how do you know, how do you, we're like in awe of me, Daniel. You know, it's Daniel Ash, you know. And she goes like this, I don't know how I ended up with this monster. And I try to tell him that story a couple years ago, and he just kind of looked at me like, it didn't land. Yeah, I know you're talking about. I was like, you don't remember the French model?

And he was like, yeah, I think her name was Veronica. Or, you know, it's like, that's his memory. So, yeah. Rockstar problems. He can only, he can kind of remember the French models. Yeah, it's highly amusing. Anyway, thank you so much. Great talking.

Thank you, Billy. It's been great.