The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Jack Osbourne | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

In this deeply personal conversation with Billy Corgan, Jack Osbourne reflects on growing up in the spotlight, getting sober at 17, and carving out his own path beyond the shadow of rock royalty. He revisits the reality TV phenomenon that reshaped pop culture and the pressures of teenage fame, shares intimate stories about his parents’ relationship, the gentleness and laughter behind the chaos, and what it was like watching Ozzy wrestle with fame and self-worth. The conversation turns emotional as he revisits Ozzy’s final Birmingham show: the Herculean effort to make it happen, the healing reunion with Black Sabbath, and the peace Ozzy found at the end.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I didn't really anticipate all the attention, because you don't think about it, right? Mainly because we didn't know what we were doing. That couldn't have been good. No, it wasn't. What's your sort of general memory of it? Do you think of it fondly now? What pops to mind for me the most is kind of the gentleness and the laughter. To see such great artists move in one direction, you see the power of rock music in full display. I'm only crying because, who the joy?

Yeah. He did it. Yeah. You did it. Jack, good to see you. Thanks for being here. Lots to talk about. Okay. So whenever I'm going to interview someone, I try to do deep dive, learn things that didn't know.

And this one caught my eye. So I wanted to start here because it kind of made me laugh. The Osbournes reloaded, right? Yes. Reloaded. A little, yeah, yeah, a blip. I was like, first of all, how did I miss? the Osbournes reloaded for quick context and correct me if I'm wrong.

It only, there was only one episode that aired. Yes. Total disaster. As far as TV world, I don't know. I want your opinion on that, of course, but. Totally. Yeah, so it was a, we shot an entire series for Fox. It was a variety show.

2009? Yeah, 8-9-ish. Yeah, I think so. 2009. Yeah. And it was very short-lived because ad sales, like, hey, they were like, this is horrible, you can't do it. It was like too shocking.

And they pulled it. And I was like, wait, what? The same network that has like family guy. Yeah. That's making like Hitler jokes. And, you know, we, and it was because we did a, on the first episode, we did this like blind date thing where we had a guy blindfolded and something, I forget what the context was, but he ended up having to make out with like an 80 year old woman.

And he didn't know, blindfolded. And they found it just too, you know, too hot for TV. So it was produced by the same company as American Idol. Yes. American Idol was your lead in. So it was obviously set up for success. The debut was only 35 minutes, not 60. Yep.

Sketches, stunts, hidden camera stuff, music, celeb cameos. Yes. Many of the TV affiliates refused to air. One critic called it the worst variety show. ever. Episode one, it had your father,

Ozzie, dancing in a leotard. Quite possibly, yeah. Another critic called it Must Flea TV. You also had a thing where a couple was pressured to marry on the spot, which they did. Yep, I remember that. And then there was some skid about Ozzy and Kelly

working a fast food job. Yeah. Which, that sounds fun. Yeah, yeah. It was like this diner down by the airport. Yeah. It was fun. Yeah, it was like this weird.

And my dad like flung a piece of bread at my mom and it poked her in the eye and like burst her, like I guess whatever the sack is in your eye and it was like a whole thing. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. I want to bring it back. I think all the episodes now are online, somebody said, but I hadn't gone looking for it.

That's all right. You won't, you're not missing anything. Yeah. It sounded like an interesting car crash. It totally was an interesting. interesting car crash. Yeah, it was fun to do, but yeah, I'm glad it never went. I guess it's easiest to start with Osborne's, the successful version of the show, because, you know, it sort of brought you and the family into the public consciousness away,

and in many ways people got to know your mom and all that. I know originally was pitched as a three-week thing, and it was supposed to be short-term. And we don't have to go deep into it because the episodes are all there if people want to watch. But what's your sort of general memory of it, You think of it fondly now or? In hindsight, I think of it fondly. In the moment, I could remember being really, I mean, I was 15 when we started filming. And so I don't care who you are. 15 is not a very fun age.

Especially early online. People were probably saying stuff about you. Yeah. Yeah. And this was in like the, you know, blogging days and all that, like before social media. And I just didn't, I wasn't, I didn't really anticipate. all the attention because you just you don't think about it right mainly because we didn't know what we were doing we were at home people were filming us and you're like oh well is this you you don't know what's going to make air and what's not well plus the editing makes things seem worse or better exactly yeah and so when the show blew up literally overnight um i i really resented it for i was like this is terrible why did we do this and i was like smoking weed and drinking

and I didn't want to get caught, and there's cameras everywhere, and so I had a lot of struggles with it. When I interviewed your mom, she did say that she regretted doing the show, and she said because of what it did to my family. Yeah. But now that you're a bit older, I mean, you can see it certainly had a lot to do with your father's continued success. Sure.

Sort of introduced him to a whole new crowd, and I think in many ways led him to be more of a cross-cultural icon beyond music. Yeah. So in your in your estimation, looking back, generally positive? Yeah. Hindsight, very positive. Because it's kind of, we were a part of something which changed the way people, you know, made entertainment. Yes. And I mean, it's like, it's kind of funny because now it's very fondly remembered and considered a groundbreaking show. Yeah. But at the time, there was a lot of debate about this is too much and what was fake.

Exactly. It was real and all that type of stuff. Yeah. And so I think for me, when I'm like, oh, you know, it's kind of, I don't know, flattering to a degree because I was a part of something which kind of helped, you know, it was a contributing show and helping change TV. Yeah. And so that's, you know, I don't, I don't kind of poo-poo that.

Yeah. What attracted me to kind of set up talking about it was that, you know, you've kind of gone in your own life in television. You know, you've done a lot of producing and hoovering. And when did that kind of become your own thing? I learned really early on when doing the Osbournes. I'm like, oh, when you're on camera, you're kind of a, you're just a talking boxer tied. You don't have any control.

You don't have any, like, say. They're kind of like, this is what we're doing. You know, we're paying you. Do it. And I was like, I want to have control. So it was born more out of, I think, me just one. to have a bit more say in what I was participating in. Yeah.

And so that, when the Osbournes ended, I started working a lot in the UK, and I did this like travel adventure show over there and really learned about what it takes to produce a show, kind of soup to nuts. And I just, I enjoyed it. You know, I enjoyed the creative outlet. Was it originally a thing where it's like,

well, you've got this momentum for the TV show, you could pursue this as a way to make some money? Or what was your original sort of entree to television past the? the original series. I think it was, I was just getting calls and different opportunities presented to me

after the show ended. And I was like, well, because my plan was before the Osbournes, I was gonna, I wanted to join the army. So like, I was gonna finish out high school because I was in, I was in ninth or tenth grade when 9-11 happened and I was all like, I'm going to the army.

And that was kind of my plan. I was working at Epic Records records as a talent scout, but I just was like, yeah, you know, friends are going to college. I think I'll just go to the Army for a few years and, you know, do that. Were attracted to the discipline of it all, or? I think it was, yeah, I think the discipline, I think the, the potential adventure. I think, I don't know, I've just, I've always been a bit of a, I don't know, it's just always appealed to me for some reason.

I don't know why. Like, I like doing hard things. What did your family say when you said you wanted to go to the Army? My dad was like, that's stupid, you can't, you know. Hated it. Hated it. And then I actually, after doing, you know, in my early 20s, I then actually really attempted to join the military. And I, um, I wanted to go into the Air Force at that point. And they wouldn't accept me because I had tattoos. And I'm like, when I was in there with this recruiter, I'm like, now they're begging. Yeah. They're like, please anyone. Yeah.

But it was like full on like, 2000. I think it was like 2009, 10ish. And they were like, it was like full on war. And I'm like, wait. So you're saying, you don't want me because I have tattoos, but like, I was like, that makes no sense. Like, we have standards. I'm like, okay, good luck for that. This would have been the British, British Army. No, it's American. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Wow. Because now I know they've relaxed every one of those codes, I think. Yeah, I don't see anyone. Hmm. Just a curiosity question, ever thought about going into music? I actually tried to find a clip of you singing, and I couldn't.

I found a clip of you bad rapping. Yes. That exists. Yeah. But I couldn't find a little. any of you singing? I never wanted to sing. When I was a kid, I played guitar a little bit and then drums. I always saw it as a huge uphill, even if it was just as a hobby. I just was like, you know, I could write the greatest song ever and I would never get full credit for it,

just because of this is my dad, you know, oh, well, it's just a Aussie son, you know, and I was like, You know, and also I was like, how the hell am I ever going to, like, those are some big shoes? Like, I'm not even going to attempt to put those on. But have you sung? No. I was like, I think maybe in the shower. Yeah. The reason I ask is because your father has such a distinctive voice.

And obviously, genetics play a huge role. And I had this instance when I was in a car with my brother. And he forgot I was in the car and he started singing. And it was like, I heard my own voice come out of my brother's body. And I'd never heard my brother's singing. because he didn't want to sing. Yeah. And I had that moment of like,

oh, he can sing like that too. So I was thinking it in the same way as like, whether you had any of that chop because your father's such a great singer. My sister's got the singing abilities. They both can sing very well. And I just, I'm terrified of it. I think it is, it is lonely up there.

It's very lonely. And I always, and I've always looked at it like, I think stand-up comedy and singing are two of the scariest jobs you could ever do. Yeah, yeah. So going back to you in television, Portals in Hell, I was, I knew that you'd had success in television, but actually looking at it on paper, I was like, wow, you've done a lot more than I thought you had. So congratulations, because, as you know, getting out of your famous parent shadow is something that's not easy to do. And I think it's cool that you've taken those opportunities and actually made your own thing with it.

So just to share it with me like Portals and Hell. The paranormal stuff? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I grew up loving the X-Files. And so, and it was like I actually went to the X-Files set once. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, we talked our way into it. Oh, that's awesome. I think it was about 96. Okay. They were shooting in Canada because it was cheaper to shoot in Canada. Yeah. And we talked her way onto the set. That's amazing.

And so we spent like a whole afternoon watching them shoot on set in Canada, like Vancouver somewhere. That's so cool. And somewhere he gave me his watch. So I have his watch. And then we got to know. And they came to a show after that a little bit. So it was cool because we actually got to be part of the X-Files thing, why it was happening. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right.

Because you remember back in the day that show was like the show. Yeah. And I grew up watching it. I was surprised they haven't brought that show back. They did, actually. They did like a 10-episode run and it was okay, you know. But seems like a no-brainer for this world. Yeah, I think so.

They could do so many cool. Cool stories. Sorry, I interrupted you. No, no, it's fine. So I got super into paranormal as a kid. It was just a hobby. My dad and I used to like geek out and we'd always, he'd take me to like bonds and nobles and you're always buying like UFO books. And it was just like a thing, like him and I bonded over at a young age.

And let's see, it was in 2011. I got a call and they were like, hey, we're doing this paranormal show. Do you want to? And I was like, hell yeah. Like, I love that stuff. And I just jumped on board of this production. And it was this, it was a show called Haunted Highway. And we filmed it all ourselves, kind of like Blair Witch.

And it was like a paranormal investigation show. We did everything from like cryptids to UFOs to ghosts and whatever. And it just kind of worked. And the interesting thing about the paranormal world as far as like TV shows go, the view is a really critical of the on-camera talent. Like they call both real easy. And for some reason, they just liked the way that I went, my approach like investigating it because I never went in with full tin,

full hat on being like, no, it's Belsabob. It's like, I was always kind of a, a bit of a skeptic. And I think it just people liked it because it was a bit more of a rational approach to doing these ghost shows. And it just worked. And for years, I just, you know, did series after series and portals to hell. And then I did, what was it? What was the other one? I did. I did. I've done so much. I know. I can't even remember. It was a night of terror. And I did the show with these, did like a footage where we reviewed footage with these three other guys. And yeah. Have you had paranormal experiences?

We have very strange things. What's like the most intense one you can think of? Man, I had, um, I was actually just telling my daughter about this. Uh, we were filming at this place in, in L.A. actually. It's called Heritage Square. And it's this museum where they took the oldest standing houses in L.A. and they moved them to this park. And so there's like six or six of six. I've been there. Yeah.

We shot a video there. Okay. We were in this house and one of the, I was just doing like a little on the fly interview and we were in this staircase and there was a door behind a producer. And they're asking me questions and it sounded like someone was trying to open the door. And we were like, hey, we're filming in here. Like, you know, hold it. All of a sudden the door just flies open.

Like, and we're all just like, what the, like that was wild. I've had stuff like objects, move. You know, crazy stuff with like EVPs and, you know, using different, you know, the devices like a REM pot or Melmeter. But yeah, anytime you see stuff move that shouldn't be moving and then you can't really explain why it moved. That's, and, you know, we always check windows and like could have been a gust of wind or whatever. And we sat for like 15 minutes trying to recreate the door opening. Like, wait, did someone open a door on the other side? Create a vacuum.

Nothing. Yeah. Yeah, I had once where I lived in an old house from the 1800s, and you know, I mean, you feel like there's somebody in the room. We've all had that experience. Anyway, I had this intense feeling that there was somebody standing in the closet, and the closet was like literally you could just put one person in there. And I was so sure that somebody was in the closet that I went up and opened it really slow,

almost expecting somebody to barge out. And this is like, you know, you grew up in celeland. It could be a stalker for all you know is in there, right? So I opened the door really slowly, and it was a sealed room. The window was sealed. There was no, and when I opened it, the string for the light was swinging like this. And there was no wind, and I opened the door really slowly. And it was like, yeah.

Now, if somebody could say, well, that was nothing. But for me, the presence and the feeling, and why did I have to look in there and opening it slow and seeing this thing just on its own? Yeah. And it's something to it. You know, I'm not, and I was never one to be like, oh, it's always a ghost, you know, the ghost is the, you know, conscious spirit of a once living human. Like, I kind of came away from it being like, I don't know what this is, but something is happening.

Not everyone is crazy. Yeah. And, I mean, you do come across some crazies for sure. Yeah. But these experiences that people are having, and myself included, it's not nothing. Yeah. Do you ever read a holographic universe? You know that book?

I have not read holographic universe. I just read simulation theory. Yeah. It's this idea that, you know, there's different planes of existence in quantum world. Yes. And so that might be at least a scientific way to get some teeth to why maybe some of what we're experiencing that we call ghosts or paranormal activity might just be sort of the,

the loosening of the bonds between the bands of reality. And I kind of like came up with like a, you know, I kind of chalked it up to a few things. You know, one thing that I often talk about was, exposure to mold, causing people to hallucinate. Well, if you've ever seen that stuff about the Salem witch trials, where they think they were all high out of their minds on cooked bread or something. Yeah. Yeah. And so you have the incidents like that or what if there's some undiscovered, undetected, undetected energy spectrum that when you encounter, it can elicit hallucinations. You know, people that live on the power lines,

they get headaches and the power company, you'll tell you, oh, that's not real. That can't happen, but it does. Yeah. I met a gentleman recently who, and he's been public, about it where he was one of the people who have, I think he sued the government because he's one of the people that said that they were attacked by energy weapons in Cuba. Mm-hmm. Actually had dinner with them not long ago. Yeah, did you see the stuff in Venezuela

about the energy weapons? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's wild. I was talking to a friend of mine. We're referring to the Maduro when they took Maduro out right now. Yes. Yeah.

A friend of mine, he can't say too much because he's a pretty, he's one of the sneaky poopy guys, but he's been in fighting a, he's been in a war that's been going on for a while now. God, God bless. I get you. I've met those people. Yep. And he, a couple months, it's about a year ago, I was texting him and I'm like, oh,

you know, how's it going over there? Like, what's up? And he's like, oh, I just got back from testing this new weapon. And I was like, oh, yeah. He goes, it's the most terrifying thing I have ever seen in my entire life. And this guy's a career soldier. And I was like, what is it? He's like, I can't tell you.

I was like, is it lasers? And he goes, well, he goes. He's like, he would like laugh at lasers. He's like, no, we've been using lasers here since, you know, day one. But it's terrifying. And so when you saw that, you thought, yeah, and I hit him up. And I was like, would that, is that what you were talking about? And he just gave me like the side eye emoji.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yeah, I think in that, not to make light of it, because obviously it's anything involving violence is scary to me. But I think they said 20 elite U.S. troops, I think, took on 200 guys. Yeah. So whatever's going on is. And there was like barely any casualties on us.

It was like just superficial damage on our side. I saw an interview where the guy said it felt like his head was exploding and people were instantly vomiting and blood and blood was coming out of their noses. I don't know how we got down this route. Yeah, you know. Let's get those tinfall hats out. Yes. Ozzy and Jack's World Adventure. Well, Detour.

Detour, sorry. World Adventure. That's my title. 2016 to 2018. Best job ever. Tell me why. It was like just the best, we had the best time. So it was the show, basically, the premise was me and my dad.

Initially, it was going to be called, it was going to be called historically incorrect with Ozzy and Jack. We were going to go, because we were both history buffs, go check out these different historical sites. We went to Stonehen, we went to Japan, went to Cuba. Yeah. And then it kind of turned more into this, like, buddy road trip type show. And it was just great. We just went and did cool stuff, met cool people.

And most of it was done with us driving around in an RV all across the country. And it was just awesome. It's just like the best time. And that's something he enjoyed. Oh, he loved it. He loved it. Even when he was so sick, he was like, come on, let's do the show. let's do the show. And I'd be like, Dad, do you really want to go in an hobby and like traips around the country and just stay in hotels? He's like, yeah, it was so much fun. Yeah. It was just great. It was just fun to spend time with him and just have wild experiences. Yeah. I know your pop loved his World War II history. Yes. I was thinking recently because I, sometimes I buy old photos and I'd bought a, um, a photo book of a World War II soldier. Wow. Um, um,

It's just like, it's all family pictures. And the reason I bought it was there was one picture in there where the kids are little. And, you know, there may be like five and seven, you know, classic picture of two little girls. But they're wearing his and maybe a buddy's like Nazi deathhead hats. Wow. And it's such a weird, contrasting picture. Because the whole album is just this family kids growing up. Yeah.

Kid in the crib. All the classic pictures. And there's just this one picture where it's the kids are wearing the hat. Yeah. And I know your dad loved that kind of that historical, the three-dimensional aspect, because obviously he grew up in that environment. I talked to your mom about that too growing up in post-World War II Britain. Yeah. And people, I think, especially Americans, don't realize that after World War II, every country that the Allies bombed, those countries got built up before England or France. So for so long, England was just riddled with these bomb sites. Yeah. And that was his playground. Yeah.

Your first memories of your parents, because I think about this with my kids, because people will say to me, and I'm sure you've heard it, people will say to me, do your kids know what you do? So what are your first memories of what your parents did or who they were in the world? You know, when you sort of realize, oh, these just aren't my parents. They have this whole other thing going on. It's funny. It's kind of, I think probably around school age, so like five, six-ish, did it really start

to sink in. And we grew up on the road. Every break from school, summer holiday, you know, we were in the, you know, in the tour bus, had our own bunks, whatever. And it was normal for us. Yeah. But it wasn't until, you know, my best, best friend still to this day, his dad's a Tyler. And he's a Tyler. And it's like, so I'd be out at his house and, you know, his dad's going to the job site. And that was so being exposed to like other families, then, you know, you know, I would be like, oh, okay, my dad's job's a little different, or when something would happen, it would be in the press, and older kids at school would say stuff to us.

That's when it really hit. It wasn't until I was probably 10, 11, 12-ish, that I started to really absorb it on the creative side, like understand the music and listen to it and kind of start respecting it in that capacity. But yeah, from a young age, it was it was always it was always a parent and but i and the funny thing is though even from a young age i was like oh i always knew my mom was in charge i always knew that yeah she called the shots

yeah um of course your your grandfather don arden yep uh legend in the music business and at some point he came and lived with you guys right yes yeah later on yeah when we were yeah in my late teens he yeah he was around a lot more and then he had Alzheimer's and so he had to go into a hundred home. But yeah, I actually, I actually in my whole childhood was told he was dead until I was about 13 or 14. And then they made peace. Yeah. Yeah. Because you've had such an insider's view growing up in the business. What's your impression of the music business in terms of what it does to artists? Man. Because, you know, your grandfather managed very famous acts. I talked to your mom about that when she was here.

And then, of course, your father is, you know, institutional. When you were born, I mean, 85, right? So, you know, Sabbath had already been together and broken up. And, you know, and he had incredible success with Blizzard of Oz. So, you know, he was a well-established music artist. But growing up in the music business, I think you have an interesting perspective, I would think in terms of, like, the contrast between what artists go through personally, but then also what the music business kind of does to their heads.

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health care that works with you, not against your budget. Yeah, you know, I think something that doesn't get talked about a lot is like, it's hard work. It is not like, I don't, I like to say it's not for the faint of hurt. Yeah, it really isn't. And, and I think this, you know, when you ask that question, what I reflect on is a lot of the, the, my friends who were, like, you know, like baby bands on Ozfest and then blew up shortly thereafter. So like, you know, incubus or system of a down or guys in disturbed. And just seeing kind of from them being like, oh, you're going on at 1130 tomorrow in the morning when the gates open to then some years later being like headliners. And so getting that perspective to see the growth and the journey, you know, it's some people handle it.

some people don't. And I think a lot of that just comes down to self-understanding of like, what is it you're actually doing, you know? And yeah, it's, it is a very strange thing because it's, you know, I say this a lot. Every actor wants to be a rock star because when, when you're performing your art, you're on a set like this and there's maybe 10, 12, you know, it's a big movie and a lot more people watching you. But they're not giving you the feedback. back. Yeah. And there's something about, I think, when you step on a stage, just from my perspective, have never done it professionally. But what I've always observed is like, there's power in that. When you're standing there, I'm sure, and you can speak to that, when you're standing there in

front of thousands of people and they are all there to see you and to experience your energy. Or you like your adrenaline. Yeah. I mean, it's an, it's a, it's a, it's the ultimate adrenaline. Yes. Yeah. And, and I think that can, it can, it can corrupt. Well, you can see why it becomes addictive in its own way because, you know, you get so jacked up on that dopamine. It's like, where else are you going to find that? Do you get scared? No, no. I'm more in the mindset now of, like, not wanting to disappoint people. There was a whole period of my life where I was, I was okay with disappointing people, because in my mind, I was going to do whatever I was going to do. And, in fact, even with some of my battles with your mom behind the scenes

when she managed me were about this idea of like, why didn't I want to please the audience? To her, it was antithetical. Why would you not want to please your audience? So I tried to explain to her, like, that the Gen X generation just had a slightly different mentality. Yeah. It was more of a sort of, we're going to do what we do.

And if you like it, you like it, you don't. You don't. That was part of the rebellion. Yeah. But of course, she grew up in more of that show business environment that your grandfather was part of, which was like, no, if you have an opportunity to be up there, you have to grab people.

Yeah, you've got to give them what they want. Yeah. And your father was really great at that. He really had an ability to really emotionally connect. We grew up in a totally different mindset. Sure. That's why you're like shoe-gazing bands. You stare at your shoes, right?

I'm curious, you know, like I said, you're born in 85. So your father still did a lot of incredible music afterwards, but most of the music that people focused on had been done before you were born. So when you became aware of that music, I'm not so much interested in your personal impression, but if you want to talk about that, It's fine. It's more about like when you kind of came in touch with his legacy and what he'd created and people's opinions of him. Like, did it change your perspective of your father? Did he grow

in stature in your mind? Or was it, no, that's my dad and that's what he does. Like, how did you balance those things? It's funny. Like, I kind of had a way to almost compartmentalize it, right? Like, I had, you know, Ozzy as my dad, who would be the guy that I could go downstairs with and be like, what are you watching? You want to go get some food? Whatever. Yeah. And, and then, then I could see him as the artist as well, like very separately. And the thing that I kind of, I really enjoyed was like if I was listening to a song or if I, you know, something like I could remember hearing Planet Caravan for the first time and like coming downstairs and being like, talk to me about Planet Caravan. Like what the, like what? It is, it is in the Sabbath canon and outlying track.

Absolutely. It's kind of a weird stoner. Just full mushroom track. Yeah. I totally like, you know, Bill's playing, I don't know, he's playing like bongos. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and he was just like, we were just fucking around. And something that's really hit me lately is his age when he was doing some of this stuff.

Crazy, right? Yeah, a friend of mine recently, he asked me, like, one of his, we were all hanging out, and one of his songs came on. And my friend asked me, so how old was your dad when he wrote that? And I was like, I don't know, 23, 24. And he was like, wait a second. Yeah, yeah. Who does that at 23, 24 years old?

Like an incredibly talented person, right? Yeah, yeah. And that kind of, and being able to kind of have those conversations with him about, you know, his work and like the stuff that he created. But he had such humility about it because, you know, I said this, you know, I've said this since he's passed. Like, I don't even think he realized. No. You know, he was just so like, that's just what I do. Yeah.

I think that's in a way what made him so attractive to people, including me, which he maintained his sense of humility, which is very rare. Yeah. Honestly, it's very rare. And it was genuine. He really was that person. I mean, he would have his rock stommel. Oh, no, no, no. But I think there's a difference between, between like, hey, I got a job to do, and this is what I do, and I'm good at my job.

And there's a competitive aspect. But at least in your father's case, and you can tell me because you were there, There was a sense he was on some level still bewildered by why people loved him so much. 100%. 100% because he didn't, for him, it was just, well, it's just what I do. It's just, I don't know, it's just what I feel like I need to do. And I think he really wrestled with the people's, like, energetic response to that. Like, but it, you know, it's this, you know, people, he had diehard fans that just grabbed onto every bit of his output.

And, yeah, he really, you know, when, after your father passed, because I'd done the last show with you guys, a few people want to talk to me. And they put me that night the day your father passed, they put me on BBC radio. Oh, wow. And I'm trying to make you laugh. But so I'm on. And the guy, you know, they had Henry Rollins on before me. and he was talking about your dad.

And then they put me on. And the guy asked me as the last question, how do you rank Ozzy's musical legacy or something like that? And I said, I know this might sound a little out there, but I actually kind of rank him with Sinatra because if you look at a man whose voice has carried him through a 50-year story and that their rare ability to connect so direct,

directly with an audience through the power of their voice, almost in a way that confuses. Like, Sinatra knew he was a great singer. But I think even Sinatra would be surprised the fact that people so still to this day are so emotionally connected. And your father had that gift too. And I really struggled to find another male singer

that has that same legacy. And when I compared your father to Sinatra, the guy on the BBC radio started laughing and did it very British and said, Well, I've never, I've never thought about it like that and then he hung up by me. But it's funny because I think what you're, you know, what you're touching on is something that I, I have spent a lot of time thinking about. And I said it earlier, but like the energetic exchange, right? Like when you go, when you, when you consume music, when you go and watch a band, when you, it's, you're, you're receiving like a type of energy. Yeah. And, and I think it, I think that there are, there are select people.

that just get this gift where that energy just resonates and it's and it will go generationally. Yeah. You know, Sinatra being one of them. Yeah. You talked a little bit before about you partying. I knew a little bit about that. And of course, I remember the headlines or whatever. But talk about it from the inside because obviously a lot of people struggle with addiction.

But you're in a unique situation. You're on a hit TV show. Your father is a notorious wild man and the stories are a legion about his partying. But yet you find yourself in that situation. And just walk us back through that a bit because... Yeah, I think a lot of it is just... I said, I've said this before in the past, but it's like you give a teenager a lot of financial resources,

a lot of notoriety, and not a lot of boundaries. It's kind of a recipe for, you know, addiction, ultimately. I just felt like I You know, there was a part of it Which almost like my dad's Wildman antics almost gave me permission to Because it was like, oh, he did it I can imagine people also encouraged you

Big time, yeah, yeah, there was a lot of that What was your parents' internal reaction When they realized you were kind of spinning a bit out of control? You know, it was Huge worry, huge, I mean, they Because they knew I was like up and they knew I was getting out there and doing crazy. I don't think they realized it was like, I joke and say, you know, I went pro at a

young age. Like, I don't think they realized how pro I went. Okay. And it was, it was a, it was, it was, it was heartbreaking, you know, and I think they both felt a huge sense of failure because they felt responsible and, you know, an old hat. And it's like, you know, I, I, I, whether I didn't touch a drop of alcohol till the age of 21 or, you know, drank when I, you know, started drinking it 40 like I feel like I would have ended up the same way. I have such an addictive personality. You know, if I can get a if I get a dopamine hit from something, oh, I'll get addicted to it. Do you believe there's a sort of a genetic route to those things too? I think so. Yeah, I think there's a genetic. I also think there's that bit of nature nurture. I think there's, you know, ultimately it's my belief that or, you know, addiction boils down to a trauma response. You know, how you get to coping mechanism. I agree with that 100%. Yeah. Were you, I mean, it's hard when you're having a, you know, you're a little bit out of control in life. But did you have some reflection? And like, you know, this has certainly affected my father's life in this particular way.

Was that part of your thinking or was that part of your recovery? It wasn't in the, in the moment it wasn't because you always are like, well, I'm never going to be like that. I'm never going to be like that. And then you kind of look back and you're like, oh, wait a second. Yeah. I'm kind of acting like that. I was never, I was never to his level. But he, it was, it definitely, it was, I needed to get sober when I got sober.

I got sober at 17 years old. And, and you stayed sober. Stay sober. Stay sober. Yeah. That's amazing. That's a hard thing to do. Yeah.

I was, I was lucky because I got sober with a really amazing group of young guys. And I had a great community and a lot of support. and I and I I kind of did the work and that's the thing it's recovery at the end of the day there's listen there's many ways you can you can achieve you know sobriety and you know you can everyone's got their own path on it but for me

I just I needed that like all right here's the roadmap if you stick to it it's going to get better and it just has worked for me wow I do good with I do good with like structure and order well because I never had it, the Army or the Air Force. Yeah. You know, I've had the opportunity to get to know your parents behind the scenes, but I feel like you should tell people a little bit about who they really are,

because, you know, there's the TV character version and there's the tabloid version. But I think the thing I would point to, because I, you know, knew you guys back in the day, there's a real sweetness in your family. It really is, I like to say about the Osborne, so it really is a family business. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, yeah, you know, we didn't grow up with a big family because of my mom's fractured relationship with her parents and brother and her extended family. And then my dad kind of having a hard time figuring out his place in his family when, you know, he shot up to, you know, success and fame. You know, it was, I think he just felt uncomfortable kind of going back to, you know, Birmingham a lot. and being with his family just because, you know, it's working class, you know, Midlands culture is, you know, you're going to take care of the family kind of attitude. And there was for a time that occurred. And he just wasn't, he was never comfortable with that.

And so it was just, it was just the five of us for the most part. You know, I have my half brother and half sister, but they were, they were in boarding school. And then they went off to college. And they're over 10 years older than me. So, you know, we would see each other on holidays. and things, but just the five of us. And my mom would always say, it's like, this is all we got. It's just the five. And so she really

keeping us together, fostering that kind of life that allowed us to always be together, whether it was being on the road or, you know, going to, you know, coming out to L.A. while Dad was doing an album or New York or whatever. She was really adamant about us always being together as much as possible. Yeah. But can you talk a little bit about their real personality? Sure. Sure. And it's not, it's not the guy.

gossip side of the question. It's just like, I think, I think, um, uh, I mean, one, one beautiful thing, you know, I had a, you know, as you might remember, I had a very public falling out with your mother and we made friends years ago and, and have, actually have a very nice connection now. And I think the thing that strikes me when I sit with your mom now and I talk to your mom now is like, we've kind of survived all the BS of it all, including our own BS. Yeah. And there's a sweetness there because you're like, there aren't a lot of us in the world who actually live this life. We live this incredible life, this, whatever this craziness is. You grew up in it, so you didn't really get a choice. And I think about that with my kids all the time. They don't

really have a choice. But for people that chose to be in it, you know, there's a sort of understanding, like we've been through something very intense. And I think now that I'm older, I tend to look at like what your mom's been through, what your dad went through. I look at it with a totally different lens. Yeah. More so from the, from the family out, because I know what it does to a family. I know the stresses that it puts on. So people, of course, look at all the glamorous part of it all. But we also live in like the hard days, the off days, the weird days, the, you know, including the open days. Well, and even what it does to your body, all those years on the road, you know, you know, because you do a lot of traveling with your work. It's just, it's just not easy. It's just, and nobody wants

to hear you complain. No, you know, it's hard to being a rock star. But, you know, you know, But you understand what I'm saying. There is a cost to all that. Yeah. And, but please talk a little bit about your parents. Because I think there's, there's something there that's, that story has yet to really been told. Particularly their incredibly intense romance.

There was always a gentleness, you know, that people never really saw it. You know, when we were doing the show, we, recently, we watched back the episodes, and we did kind of like a watch party series. We released online of us, all of us watching the original series. and we were all amazed about how much we used to laugh. Like, there was a lot of laughter in the household, a lot of fun and funny, just like us, just doing stupid.

And I think that's what pops to mind for me the most is kind of the gentleness and the laughter. When there's no chaos, when there's no, oh, dad, you know, he didn't want to go and do the gig and there's a riot, whatever, or, you know, my mom's, you know, falling out with Billy Corgan. Like, when there was no chaos, it it was always very um just funny yeah just funny stuff and and and and and gentleness and love so much

love i mean it was always you know we would all even you know we i can have memories of all of us just being in bed on a saturday like watching m tv is a kid just yeah hanging out like yeah you know and it's it's that's the stuff which um uh i think is it has never really been scene from my parents. Yeah. And that's kind of what I was after is that I saw that and witnessed it up close. Yeah. Um, your dad's first retirement tour was 1992.

Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. So that's the no more tool is tool. I was gonna say that's the perfect age where you're old enough now to kind of know what's going on. Yeah. What was the, what was the behind the scenes impetus? It seems very early in the story, but yeah.

It's because he had a, he had a false diagnosis of multiple sclerosis. Ah, that's right. Yeah. He, um, they misdiagnosed his Parkinson's as multiple sclerosis. Um, and I can remember the final show. We had Jim Rose as, uh, as the opening act. Yeah. Uh, it was, insane. I can remember being a kid like watching and like, what in the like, yeah, that's the kind of shit that I, you know, I don't know if you should show a seven year old. Yeah, right. Um, but yeah, and then we, we moved back to England. We were living in California at the time. Yeah, when we moved back to

England and that's where my parents got a welder's house, which is the house they still have. And I just remember my dad, it was the first time I just remember him being home a lot. And it was like, it couldn't have been good. No, it wasn't. He started, he started like riding bikes a lot. He became obsessed with like road biking and, and then he got into like motorcycles and he was just bored out of his ass. And he was like, and after maybe two years, he was. And he was like, and after maybe two years, He's like, I just, I remember him saying, I got this, I got to get out there. Yeah. Well, what point did they figure out it was an incorrect diagnosis?

I think because he wasn't presenting any symptom. And so then he, I think he was like, all right, that's, that's, he went back in the studio, recorded osmosis, and it was just kind of on and popping. Yeah. Until he retired again. And then again. Yeah. Yeah, because 1995, I think it is, he does the retirement sucks tour.

Yep. But talk about being like, you know, seven, ten years old on the road and that world. They kept me pretty shit. Like, until I was about 12 or 13, they would keep me really sheltered when we were on the road. It was, you know, hotel, bus, venue, dressing room when dad was. So you weren't running around with the bands yet. Not yet. No, that didn't come until I was about 12th.

It was, Ozfest really, is when it started. So I was, I was very protected. You know, you would see stuff just, you know, being stood on the side of the stage. You know, they'd be women flashing and, you know, you'd see a mosh pit and just craziness. And I have memories of us pulling out of venues and, like, as you know, sometimes when you exit, you kind of have to go through like the parking lot and there'd be people like banging on the side of the bus and, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. So a lot of memories of that.

But it was just fun. I just remember having so much fun and it being so exciting. Like, you know, last day of school, because in England they have things called half term, which like every six weeks, you get like a week break. Okay. But you have like a shorter summer and a, you know, it's just different over there. Oh, yeah, that's right, yeah. And so I would just count down the days because it was like, oh, going on the road. It's going to be fun.

Yeah. You mentioned before, and I actually had a question here, so I can't. kind of connects up about the idea that trauma sort of defines. Can you talk a bit about, it's hard to put in the right context where it doesn't sound weird, but your father was traumatized by certain things in his life, the most obvious being that Sabbath fired him. And, you know, there's this clip, I think there's some clip that I saw after your father passed when I was sort of, you know, it's like sentimental.

You almost want more of the person because they're gone, but. there was a clip where he and your mother were talking and she wanted to do something with Sabbath. And he was like, but they fired me. And it was like 25 years later, you know what I mean? But he was obviously still really hurt by that. Yeah. And I did talk to your mom about that too, about this idea of like that it hurt him so deeply that his mates and his brothers would fire him. Yeah. And of course, Randy Rhodes' death, you know, it seems maybe that did something to him that he never fully recovered from. Absolutely. No, no, I never fully recovered. from that one at all. But are there, I'm not asking to reveal anything unknown.

No, no. What, what, you know, because when you, when you look at someone who struggles with addiction and, and at times at least being around him personally and at times being a fan for some of years, there were times where he just so, he seemed to be very overwhelmed by what he was into. And the image I always got was your kind of mom going, you gotta get out there.

Yeah. These people love you and you got to work and him almost being like, yeah. Well, I think it came down for, to, self-worth. He's not someone that had a, you know, when he was, um, when left to his own devices, that kind of darkness of like, I am less than, I suck, I'm not worthy, would really take over. Yeah, Ross Halfen, who you know very well, um, photographer, Ross said to me, uh, after the final show in, in Birmingham, he said, every gig that he'd ever shot your data going all the way

back to like the 70s. He said after every gig, your dad would be like, I was terrible, I'm so embarrassed. You know, I can't believe these people are cheering for me. And he said the last gig was the only time that he didn't say that. Oh, he was so happy. It was the craziest thing. Yeah.

Because I ran into the dress room and I was like, you did it. He was like, smile in. Sorry, I just get it. Well, he did. He did it. Yeah. He did it.

I'm only crying because, ooh, there. the joy yeah yeah he was so happy and uh when they did the switch

um after he did his solo and then he came out with Sabbath yeah I'd watch the first bit out in the out in uh out in the audience and I watched Sabbath from the side of the stage and

I went into his quick change room and he was like I'm doing it yeah yeah he was just happy when he was doing what he was meant to do. But that was it, you know,

and I think that's why I get so emotional at it is because of what Ross just, you know, what you're saying, Ross was saying, is that he always felt like he did a job. He was always like, oh, no. That's crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Because, you know, this is a bit of a nerd thing, but, you know, there's that weird thing in Sabbath lore where Tony starts to, it's his band. Probably always his band in Tony's mind. Sure. And, of course, we love Tony. but there's that weird thing where now Tony's in the center of the band and your dad's pushed to the left,

which is the weirdest thing in the world. And he's singing in front of Tony's stacks, which are mind-numbing. So your dad's almost straining his voice. There's clips of late 70s, like 78, where I'm thinking, how the hell is your dad singing over this wall of guitar? Yeah. Probably no monitors or no monitors to speak up.

And yet, he's still saying, sings in pitch and, you know, is, I'm just incredible talent. Like, I mean, just a rock singer, I'm like, how do you do that? How did you do that? I think it was almost that thing of he, it was always hungry, right? He was always like, I gotta, I gotta do, I gotta do a good job. I gotta keep the guys in the band hampe, I gotta, you know, he felt like he had to, he had to be good and he had to do whatever he could to be good.

And I think that's a part of the craziness, because, he knew he had to, when he got on stage, he had to just bring, bring a presence. Yeah. See if this resonates with you at all, because I know a few people like this. They're so naturally talented that they don't totally understand the talent. Does that, does it make sense? 100%. He had no idea what he had.

I think it's weird maybe for them, and I can only say it observationally because it's not me. Because I've watched musicians do this. They're so good at what they do. it's not, they don't have to sort of figure it out. Yeah. It just kind of happens. And everyone's like, that's great. And they're kind of like, shouldn't there be more something, something?

Yeah. So. Exactly. That was, that was, that's fully him. He never, and I think, but in, in, you know, since he's passed, and kind of like what you were saying, you know, been watching a bunch of stuff and just, a part of it is, it was so authentic. He wasn't trying to be a rock star. He wasn't trying to.

He was the real deal. He was. And he just was like, okay. This is what I feel like I need to do. But it was like everything that he put his heart into, like his artwork. I don't know if we've ever seen any event. I've only heard. Phenomenal.

And we'd always be like, Dad, come on. Like, you could do an art show. Like, and he's, no, no. Who wants to see my do? He just call him his doodles. Who wants to see my doodles? and he's got over 3,000 pieces of art. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. It's like, you're going to do something at some point, I would assume. Yeah, we're figuring it out, which, you know, we kind of also want to, I don't know, because he never wanted to do anything with it. Yeah. And so we're like, but do we, you know, we'll, you know, we'll. Well, I would, where I would encourage you as someone as a fan is that, um,

you really think about it, the songs, the performances, they're really just a vehicle to get to know the person. And then once a person leaves the planet, we have the one blessing in that is we have the ability to look now and say, okay, what's the body of work? And I think in your dad's case, and you even see it with the extension of the Birmingham exhibit about his life. And the incredible interest now, people wanting to come to Birmingham and sort of, I guess you call it Sabbath tourism or something, but it's rooted around your father. But this idea that they want to know more about him, that it's ultimately about him. And I think that's sort of the beauty in it. So I would at least say it from the standpoint of if there's more, people are going to want more

because they're fascinated. Sure. That's not a bad thing. No. Yeah. And we're like, do we do a coffee table book? Do we do an actual show? Like, but that's some, that's some, that's some wild pieces. Yeah. I thought to ask you this question, I'm not sure how to frame it, but it goes something like this. You know, you get brought here right in the middle of the story. You know, a lot's happened before you and a lot happened after you showed up.

And I remember seeing after your father passed, there's this beautiful clip of where he's on stage with you and he's talking to you about, this is where I do my job. It's such a beautiful moment, because I've had those moments with my kids too, and it really touched me. And, of course, knowing you,

it touched me even more. But I guess what I want to say is it's not as simple as, yes, there's the glory and yes, there's the fame, and yes, there's the beautiful houses, but there's also the cost. And I'm not saying rock and roll short in your dad's life or anything like that, but I'm saying is, are you okay as the son?

Are you okay with the cost of his gig and what he put himself through? or if you had it to do over again, which you wanted to go a different way. It was, I mean, of course I would still want my father here, but it was perfect. It's what he wanted.

Okay. Yeah. And there were so many times we were like, cancel the show. Right up until a few weeks before. Yeah, you're talking about the last, the last show. Yeah, the last show, yeah. And I, it's what he wants.

It's how he, you know, there may have been a subconscious plan here. We don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you have to wonder. Yeah. There is a belief in some spiritual circles that on some deeper, obviously not conscious level, that a person knows they're close to passing. Oh, he knew. He knew. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a lot to think through. A couple of weeks before he passed. Because I, uh, whenever, I was staying with him, I would help, you know, get him into bed at night. It's kind of a funny story. He, uh, I took him upstairs and get him ready for bed. And he was looking in the mirror. He was brushing his hair and he goes, sorry. He goes, uh, oh, I'm, uh, I think I'm going to cut my hair off, my grow beard. I was like, what? He goes, yeah, I'm not a rock star anymore. Yeah. And I think that was him. Yeah. No, and he was hanging it up.

Yeah. I promptly told him, shut the fuck up. You're always a rock stuff. I'm such a Sabbath fan that I just have to ask this because... Me too. Don't worry. Giant Sabbath fan. Yeah. What a band. Obviously, I mentioned that he was forever hurt by their firing of him, but... the piecemaking that went on over time, I just thought it was so beautiful,

Ralph, who you know is Tony's manager, I'm sure, the day before the show show, when we were all kind of in, we done sound check or whatever. And I was standing there talking to Ralph, and Ralph said, you know, if you go up to the top of this stadium, the Aston Villa,

he said, you can see about a mile away, where they all grew up. And so then the next day, there was the show, and then obviously the final act was the band on stage. They were all together. And I remember thinking like, wow, to take this journey full circle to end in peace the four of them together, this incredible journey, the music that they made in their hometown,

I don't know, I'm just talking, but it's not really a question. It was just, it really struck me that, that, he made his peace with them and they made their peace with him at the end. Did you, did you feel that? 100%. 100%. He was, he was, he was so nervous about, you know, making sure that they were happy and everyone was good. Like, he was very nervous, but he was also really happy about it.

Yeah, he was. He was just like, he felt good. You know, and there was a, and there was a, even the night before the show, like, Like, you know, there's an interesting, there was always an interesting dynamic between, you know, my dad and Tony. And not in like a, you know, I'm not revealing anything that people don't know. Is it like Big Brother really more? It was. It was.

And during sound check the day before, you know, my dad got really, you know, he was sound checking. So he wasn't going to do a, he wasn't going out there with his A game on. He was just making sure everything worked and ran through the set. And, you know, and Tony said, like, hey, you're singing flat. And my dad was... Was that what happened? I was watching. Yeah.

My dad was, he got really pissed off. He was upset. And, you know, and I kind of... My mom was like, oh, you know, your dad's. And I was like, no, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. Because out of the 40, whatever, thousand people at that stadium, the only person in that stadium that could ever say to my dad, hey, do better?

was Tony. And I think everyone needs someone like that. And although Tony and my dad's relationship over the years had its times of being contentious. But it was family. They were brothers, Giza, Bill, like they are. Closest family that anyone could ever ask. You know, they've done life together.

Yeah. And I actually, as I look back on it, I'm like, no, I think that that was okay to say because they knew it was the last time. Yeah. And it was like, hey, get out there and everyone needs to, like, give it. It's funny because I did a song once with Tony for a solo record of his, and I was in a studio with him for six days,

so we got to talk in a lot about Sabbath and, of course, your dad. And it was funny because what struck me, and again, you can only get these insights if you're with the actual person in private and you're talking calmly about these things like we are here, you know. What really struck me was, I'm not saying he underestimated your dad, but I think he was just surprised by your dad's success as anybody. 100%.

That he had this guy right there, and he thought, oh, this is not working, and obviously they parted ways. And then when your dad went on at greater heights and greater heights and greater heights, there was almost just like, how did my little brother kind of climb that ladder? Yeah. And so when I got to know Tony in the 90s and then the 2000s, that sort of surprise it turned to sort of almost admiration. Like, wow, he really did it.

Yeah, like, absolutely. And there was a beauty in that. There's almost like a sort of a Greek, not tragedy, but there's a story there where the older brother doesn't recognize the younger guy. The younger guy's almost got to go off on his own and kind of prove himself to the family or prove himself to the older brother. And that's the kind of the personal side that maybe. fans miss. They see the, they see all the pictures and the big riffs, but they don't understand that's really the personal relationships that's so defined the band. And I want to bring up one thing because it still makes me laugh. And, you know, they get to the end. I think Gieser brings out

the cake. And in the most Sabbath thing ever, they don't know what to do. No. There's no, there's no picture. There's no, you're just like, what am I supposed to do with the cake? Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was funny. I, I thought nobody thought, how to end this thing. They did they did not rehearse about. No one asked, no one said, okay,

and when the final song's done, here's what we get. Because everyone was just so like, is this going to happen? And yeah, and it's so Sabbath, right? It's so Sabbath.

And my dad was just like, that you can, there's footage and you can see him mouth and say, get me off the fucking stage. Yeah, there's some clip of your dad. He turns. Yeah.

Yeah. But it's, yeah, it was funny. Yeah. And even geese. He even said, he's like, oh, I just, I didn't think. I just, you know, I just thought it'd be nice to give him a cake.

Yeah. But very Sabbath, very Sabbath of them. Yeah. One nice little thing to share with you is when they were sound checking, I didn't know why your dad left the stage. I know he only came out and sang one song and then he took off. But, you know, why they were still fiddling around before they started. He looked down and he saw me and somebody else that he knew.

And he kind of looked down like this and he gave us one of the, Anyway, I looked around there was two people, and me and the other guy watching the band rehearse. So that's forever in my heart. I think the sound check for me was my favorite part. No one was there. I thought, it was maybe, what, 30 people out there? Yeah, it was basically friends and family, right?

So I feel blessed and that your guy gave me that as a way to say goodbye. You know, he wanted to come do this, your podcast. Oh, thank you, yeah. Yeah, I know I was talking about it with your mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said he was really, he was like, oh, you know, because he would watch your podcast. And he was like, oh, my God, I didn't know that. Yeah.

After mom did it, he watched it. And then he kind of, you went down the rabbit home, was watching a bunch of your podcasts. Oh, God bless you. He was like, I really want to go do Bill's podcast. I mean, it would have been a dream because, I mean, I could talk to him for 80 hours. I have so much to ask. So back to you. Thank you for indulging me.

Man, that stuff. Talk a bit about finding your own life and your own groove. Because, you know, this town is littered with people in your circumstance. Famous parent, a little too much bread. Yeah. You know, maybe attention that they didn't earn themselves, but at some point it's theirs because they're in the TV show or they're standing next to somebody on a red carpet. Yeah. I'm so impressed that you've, because I've known you literally since you're 12 years old or something.

I still have those books you gave me, by the way, for my 13th birthday. Yeah. I still have them. Thank you. Those good times. I'm so impressed that you've sort of made your own way. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, I just, I don't know. Growing up here, as you said, you see a lot. You see a lot. You know, there's a lot of kids that, you know. There's a lot we can't talk about. Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of kids that just, you know, they. It's a shame. A lot of kids with opportunity, talent.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know, for me, I just, I, I see it all as like an adventure. and I just, I want to have a great adventure. Yeah. And for me, sitting around and just dick it off in L.A. or in London, just on my parents' time, that's not a fun adventure. Yeah.

Like, I want to go and like, you know, I love to work hard. I love to, you know, get done. And I just get a lot of it. And I'm always trying to like, you know, all right, what's next? Let's do this. Let's do that. And just because I, I don't know, I get that from my mom. Can't sit still.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, and I never did it consciously of like, oh, I'm going to kind of carve my own path. I just, I did it out of joy. It was like, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

What's the, is there an aspiration to wish? You're still a young man. Like, what's, what's, what's another step up the ladder with me? Man. So we are, we're working on my dad's movie right now. And I'm one of the producers on it. Got biopic pick? Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah, doing it at Sony Studios. And I'm really kind of in the trenches with that. And it's funny, it's out of all the team assembled on it with these amazing producers and, you know, and directors and act, whatever, I'm like the least qualified, but everyone just comes to me. I'm like the middleman for everyone because if they need questions for my mom or if my mom needs questions for them.

So it's kind of, I've found myself in this position where it's like I'm, I'm the middleman with it all. and I'm really enjoying the experience and just learning about it. And, you know, movies are, they're different. It's a, it's a different animal. Different animal. And it's very, you know, it's very, like, artiste. And has it been, it's been announced, I assume.

Yeah, well, it was announced that we would do it with Sony pictures. We haven't done, you know, announced the cost yet or, you know, because we haven't settled. Is there any talk yet about, like, the period or is it a whole life for, It, well, initially it was going to go from kind of my dad as a young man to the kind of mid-90s, but we're going to, we're shrinking it down. We're doing a rewrite right now. And I think that's a lot of life to get into it into a two-hour movie. Yeah. Like if I, if I, in my perfect vision of it, it would be kind of, you know, tail end of Sabbath with him going solo. And, you know, to kind of because there's. You gotta have the love story. You gotta have the love story.

And that's kind of the main focus, you know, of the film and, you know, all the craziness that happened in the early 80s and, you know, Randy's tragic death. Yeah. But yeah, it's kind of more, it's an origin. It's an origin story. Yeah. Wow, I hadn't thought about him doing, not him doing a movie, but a do movie about his life. Yeah.

It's been explored, but I still want to hear it from you. obviously Sabbath went in way too late to the rock and roll of fame and those things have been off disgusting culture but your dad getting in as a solo artist it seemed to really like it seemed to really strike him like absolutely oh yeah that was uh yeah he he was really chuffed about that yeah yeah he really um because like i said self-worth right he never yeah that's why i was trying to it seems to me that i never thought about it that i never thought about it it that way, but I certainly made note of the fact that it seemed to mean more to him. Majorly.

And I think he was like, oh, cool. Like, I'm worthy of it. Yeah. And yeah, he really massively appreciated and really, I mean, he killed him that he couldn't perform. Oh, that must have just been. Yeah. But there is, there is a, during sound check, he did sing Mom, I'm Coming Home.

Really? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Much has been made of the ATV accident where he gets hurt. And I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10, was it as serious as it? It was actually probably more serious than it really was publicized. Because he'd flatlined like two times, I think.

Were you there at the time? I was not. No, I was in L.A. That's got to be a horrible call to get it. Yeah. But I was working and they kept it quiet. They were downplaying it to me. me. It wasn't until two weeks later that I went to England. Oh, my goodness. And did I realize, like,

oh, wait, like, dude's been in a coma on a ventilator? Like, what? Yeah, they kind of, they kept it quiet because they knew I had to finish this project I was working on and they didn't want me to bail on it. Yeah. But it was, yeah, it was really serious. And, you know, truth be told, that's kind of where his decline started. You know, it was when he, took the fall seven years ago, it essentially broke everything that they repaired from the motorcycle accident and caused, you know, all the rods and pins he had in him were causing bad, like, erosion of his cervical spine. Yeah. And so when he fell, it just, everything just... Because there was that whole period where, like, a tour would be announced, and then it would be postponed, and then it would be,

oh, we have to postpone it again. There was a lot of that. Yeah. We don't have to get in all the particulars on that, but I mean, it seems to me psychologically, that must have been really hard on him. It wasn't, and the reason why they didn't just outright cancel it is because it was like, hey, that's the carrot. Like, get in a physio, like, you know, but they just, the first surgery he had after the fall, like, faked him,

and then COVID hit. And it was just, everything just shut down. And he just didn't go, back to the doctor to be like, hey, this isn't working. Like, everything's still, and I'm still in pain, and it just, yeah, it just dragged it out. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was just, and then Parkinson's started getting worse.

And I think a lot of that came from, uh, him not being able to physically train as much as he used to do because he was like a workout freak. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he, um, and I think once that stopped, he couldn't do it because of the spine injury. So it truly was a hurricane. an effort to get him on stage for this kind of one last performance.

Big time. Big time. It was like, yeah. It was move heaven enough to make it happen. Yeah. And every time, like I said, there was so many times that he was like, I can't do it, can't do it. And we'd sit down with everyone to be like, all right, we're going to pull the show. And then he'd sit there and he'd be like, no, I can't pull the show, I got to do it. You'd be like, you just called everyone here to cancel it. And he's like, no, no, I'm going to do it. Yeah. There was this moment where we were all in rehearsal at Astonville, and they said, okay, everybody's going to get together to take pictures, you know. And so everybody's in there. And it's like, you know, you, and you know everybody. It's the who's who. It's metallic. A Ross is yelling at everybody. You know, it's, we're all in there, Zach and the whole crew. And then I don't know who it was. Somebody from your dad's world comes and says, look, he's going to come in. He's in a wheelchair. Don't any of you. take out a phone. Don't do this to us. Like, let's not play this game. Yeah. And so he comes in, and, you know, if you haven't seen him, he's in a wheelchair, you know. So there's that kind of still

that goes over the room like, is he going to be okay? You know? And thankfully, God bless everyone. No one's taking a picture. So it's like, that was a private moment for everybody there. And then he gets in the throne and we're all, you know, and then Ross starts yelling at people, as Ross health and our friend does. He's good at yelling at people. And I turned to Tony Iommi and I said, you know, we've been being yelled at by Ross for like decades.

This is crazy, right? And so there's this, but there's this vibe because a lot of energies on your dad, and then your dad starts having to go at Ross. And then it was like, everybody goes, oh, Oz is fine. Yeah. Because as soon as they started here and running his mouth and dropping, and F-bombs are like, okay, we're good. Yeah. Gigs gonna go.

So that's an interesting memory, right? Yeah, no, and that was the thing. He was still very, very sharp, very with it. Once he started going, you're like, oh, there he is. And, you know, the funny thing with the wheelchair was, were you at the after potty when he decided to go? See, it's funny you mention that because I had some friends who needed a ride back. It was one of those types of situations,

and somebody said, you should stay for the after party. And I thought, there's no way he's coming out here. So I split because I just thought he's going to be in the back with you guys and having a family moment. He's not going to come out here with all these people. And, of course, I find out later he came out. Well, yeah, because we sat there in the dressing room and he's like, oh, I want to go to the off to party. And we're like, what? Yeah, I was like, Dad, the only way we got to put you in the chat.

And he's like, OK, let's go. We're like, okay, okay. And he just, I think off to the show, he was just kind of like, cool like I'm like, hey, this is how I got to get around. I missed it. I'm still kicking myself. Yeah, yeah. Like, if this is how I got to get around, I'll get around.

Yeah. Yeah. So I know it's this short window between this last show and his passing, but at least give us one snapshot. He's happy. He's content. He's, he's done it. He's good.

Yeah, he was, yeah, he was really taken aback by all the outpouring of love off of the show. It was insane. Yeah. All the videos. And it was the first time that he'd, because during, during COVID, he got on social media. Because he was, he was kind of, you know, he was couchbound. Just that thought alone. Yeah.

So he had Instagram. He had TikTok. He had YouTube and, you know, his phone, his iPad. And so he started seeing all this stuff online and all this stuff posting and all these articles and everything. And he was like, wow. Like he'd never experienced that kind of instant feedback before. Usually, you know, you'd wait a couple days for a review in a magazine or a newspaper.

And all this kind of, you know, the stuff fans were posting at bands. And he just was like beaming. And he was like, oh. And then he, I remember I came in one morning and, you know, there's like the Sunday newspapers that all done, like the reviews of it. And I was showing them to him. He goes, well, a lot of good this does me. I've retired. Like, me and the joke of like, yeah.

Well, big, you know, big deal. But he was great. Yeah, he was, he really was, he was in good spirits. Yeah, none of us were like, this is imminent. Yeah, he was trucking along. Because I had a lot of people ask me, did you see anything that would tell you that he was close to the end of life? And I said, no, he seemed. Yeah.

Actually, all right. I mean, he was in a wheelchair, but his spirit was. And even the day of, like, my mom talked about it on a podcast. So it's like, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not, you know, revealing any family secrets, but he woke up, went downstairs, made some breakfast, had a cup of coffee, and, yeah, that was it. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it wasn't, and I'm grateful for that.

It wasn't this, like, horrible, like, slow, slug. Because Parkinson's, when it, it's a, it's a, it's a slow departure and it's horrible. Mm-hmm. And, and so there is. a level of gratitude for the fact that there was zero suffering. It was just like, had this good morning, you know, you watch some videos on YouTube and yeah, yeah. So last thing, and I think it's worth illustrating and you talk about it with the movie.

Well, now you're in the, you're in this other business now, which is the business of the estate and what responsibility do you feel now because, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, You've got to carry on the family brand, including for your own children. Sure. Yeah, it's, it's very strange. It's a very strange thing to kind of go, okay, well, what does this look like moving forward? Like, who, what, how is this all going to work? I mean, I got this sense.

I think when your mom sat down in that chair and talked to me, she was aware that the health issue was probably greater than people like me and the public knew. Yeah. So she was hinting that they were both kind of headed for a retirement. But I also got the sense that she's kind of at a point in her life where she doesn't want to be so intensely involved in the business side. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we're figuring out, okay, well, what does this look like? And, you know, what responsibilities are people going to have and, you know, and things like that? And just trying to, yeah, figure it. But it's such a weird thing to do while you're still kind of morning and processing and like, okay, well, what does, you know, what's the next year that look like five years, 10 years? Like, what's, you know, is as, as, as. you know, and ultimately it comes out of my mom, you know, she's the boss. She gets to call her shots. And I'm just trying to be as supportive and loving and, hey, you know, whatever you need. I'm here to help. And, you know, can I take this off your hands and that? And so, yeah, you know, we're just trying to figure it all out. You know, I think, you know, everyone has this, you know, oh, you see, you know, what the Beatles did with, like selling off everything for billions and this and that.

And I just, I don't, my dad didn't want to do that, you know, there was, there was plenty of offers that came in about. selling publishing and mast it and all that and he was like no I don't want to do that yeah I would say it to you privately and I would say to you right here I think it's too soon to make that call because I think your dad's true value as an artist and as an icon is is still under value yeah and I think the show and the reaction of the show is a clear indication yeah that there's a lot more there and so it seems to make sense to me from a strictly business point of view that you would want to sort of take your time on all that. 100%. Yeah, there's no, we're not rushing anything.

Because there's the responsibility and there's the business side of it, you know. Those people that want you to sell, of course, they'll make their argument. They're going to take it to new heights and do all this. But I think the family, especially your family, is uniquely positioned to understand the true value of your father's legacy. And that's something that takes time to unwind. Yeah. I think for the artists that were involved in the final show, I think we all knew that this was important. And in a weird kind of way, that belief in faith is what translated it out to the public.

Yeah. You know what I mean? What was your favorite moment of doing the show? Well, two things, you know, for me personally, to stand on a stage and honor your father in the band, knowing how much the band has given me as somebody who grew up in a basement, you know, somewhere and needed music like Sabbath to make me believe in something. anything is very powerful. It's a rare moment in music that you feel this sense of a full circle. Yeah. And to be part of honoring your father's legacy was really valuable to me. Yeah. A lot of people asked me after the mouth, like, oh, did you see him? And did you talk to him?

And I said, everybody was in his space. And I said, I just wanted to give him his space. Just being there, that was enough for me, you know. I didn't need two minutes with your dad to tell a joke or something. I didn't need that. I got what I needed just by being there. As far as the show itself, I thought Youngblood's performance was jaw-dropping. I mean, I was watching it from the side up on top there, and I thought people are going to remember this thing, right? Yeah. But the real thing I take away from the show, besides the most obvious thing, which is honoring the band and your dad, was this sense of everybody, for once, it sounds like a complaint, but it isn't. It's almost more of like a hippie thing. working together in a common cause,

it was such a beautiful day. Yeah, it really was. When you see a band that's size of Metallica doing a 40-minute set and G&R doing a 35-minute set and Tool doing a 20-minute set. And letting it be filmed. Well, that too. Yeah, that too. I'll stay out of that one.

But the point is to see such great artists move in one direction, you see the power of rock music in full display. Yeah. And if that's your dad's final public act, well, he kind of went out doing what he believed in, which is it's about the people, and it's about us sort of bringing that to the people. And that power beats pop music every time.

Oh, 1,000%. And I wish by and large rock music as a business would get its head out of its own rear sometimes because you see the power in that community is so much more than who's up who's down and who's on the bill. Yeah. And unfortunately, because pop music is so based on integrity,

sometimes those things get in the way when the pop artists who are sociopathic will just do whatever to get attention. Yeah. And, but we always have examples like your father said. You can crack through, you can reach people where they live. And again, he did it with humility, not with ego, which is kind of interesting, right?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And the authenticity. You can always tell when someone's fake it yeah no and then that's uh no no one was faking it that day which was great no it was great thank you with that thank thank you thanks but thanks but