The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Joe Mantegna | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Billy Corgan sits down with Joe Mantegna to trace his journey from singing Beatles tunes in his Chicago high-school band The Weasels, playing clubs with acts like Neil Diamond and Chicago, to dodging mob-run venues, goth “Judas” cult fans, and finally finding his groove in theatrical productions of West Side Story, Hair and Godspell. He recalls tiny residual checks, eight-shows-a-week stamina, and how that grind led to a Tony Award and iconic turns in The Godfather Part III, Criminal Minds and The Simpsons. Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ironically, you mentioned that, I got a residual check for a penny yesterday for Simon and Simon. One penny. There were Judas Groupies. There was a group called The Process. Hot Goth Girls, yeah. I'm down. They came to see Gotspel, and I'm playing Judas. And Godspell at the intermission. This is such a good story. Yeah.

And I walk in and the owner to play such as me, goes, Joe Montaigne, you're someone a bitch, you're going to be in a Godfather movie. Oh, my God. But that's all I knew. The pizza guy knows? The pizza guy. I know you're a big star and all. Oh, yeah, I'm a big star.

But we got to start here. Okay. The Apocryphals. The Apocryphal, wow. Me, the Weasels. Oh, my God. You are going further back. This is your high school band?

Yes, it was. About 65? About 64, 65. Yeah, that's correct. Take me. Take you back? I'm very interested in this part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow. And I get to tell us to a rock and roll god here. This is good for me. This is fun for me. Well, Well, basically what it was is, I was a junior in high school, and we were in, it was English, English class. Okay.

And I remember that the assignment was, we want to do something on English history, meaning in England English history. They said, you come back with a project based on something that has to do with the history of England and how it's affected. So the Beatles. So the Beatles. So in other words, of course, that. Everybody else was digging up to things like, well, there's a Cromwell and there's this and that,

everybody's digging up the kings of this. And there was another guy in the class who was actually a wonderful musician, my friend Neil Sordelli. And he had this idea. He goes, well, you know, the Beatles are really big now. He says, you know, I play guitar. He says, and you sing, because I've been doing some singing in the theater department at the school at the time. He says, maybe we should just do something. You know, that's English, right?

I said, yeah, that'd be cool. Because we really didn't want to work very hard on this project. So he said, we'll do this. We'll do this thing. We'll come in. We'll learn a Beatles song. You played a guitar. I'll sing it.

And we'll say, well, this is part of English history. But the Beatles, because they were like red hot at that time. So, of course, we did it. But when we did it, I mean, it was just him and I, and I think we had another guy in the class who just used like a bongo drum to just give us a little percussion. Are we saying the song? Yeah.

But the class went crazy. Like, oh, my God, this is great. Oh, man. It was like, we're like, hello. Well, maybe we got something. More of this. So we decided, just for fun, let's do, well, the teacher then asked this, you know, there's an assembly coming up. If you guys wanted to duplicate this at the assembly, I think the kids would enjoy this. Yes. So, of course, we took it seriously. We get this other guy. Now, these are all Italian guys, because this is Cicero, Illinois. So you were either Italian or Polish or something in between. Yeah. So Chris Montagina, Joe Montaena, Tommy Masseri, and Neil Sordelli, these four people. We, we, uh, we put together this thing. We had an extra guy that we wound up not using later named Art Stout, maybe because

his name didn't end in the Naval. We didn't stick with him. But anyway, but we took this seriously. So we had one guy's Tommy, the drummer, Tommy Masseri, his sister made us little jackets without the collars because the Beatles were wearing him then. She like made him out of material. Beetle wigs? Yeah, beetle wigs, the whole thing.

And we figured, well, let's call herself the weasels. Because it kind of rhymes a little. It'll be fun. come out on stage at the assembly and they say, and here they are, Morton East High School's own the weasels and people go, Weasel, what the? And then we would do this number. Yeah. Well, we do that assembly.

And we had, the auditorium is a, it's like a landmark place now it's called, I think the Coal Auditorium, it's in Chicago, it's in Cicero, Illinois, but it was built like in the 30s. It holds like 2,500 seats. It's a packed. It's beautiful theater. Packed with students. We finished the song,

they go berserk. Because the Beatles were just so hot, and I guess we sounded pretty good. They go berserk. So they're screaming at us. We leave the stage. They're stamping their feet. They want another song. We didn't know another song.

So we came back and played the same one over. Do you remember with the song you played? I think it was, please, please me. I think it was given the, ooh, must have really got them when we got to that part. That's a tough song, though. You guys must have been decent. Well, we were decent. I mean, but decent enough.

Yeah, but you did record records. There were 45s. Yeah, we did. couple records we did um because ultimately the weasels became the head to the drama department embraced us yes he came up with the name the apocryphals so we changed it to the apocryphals and so within the Midwest at that time we were a pretty popular chicago band like just the local band we're a cover band we're playing it we've played in the the kind of the hippie neighborhoods we wear paisley shirts you're touching you're touching me here because uh you're about five months younger than my father you guys

were born in the same year. And my father was playing in bands around Chicago at that same time. What was the name of the band? He was never in any kind of bands that did anything, never really recorded much. But he was playing all those same places you guys were playing. So I saw a list of the places you guys played in some. Like the Blue Village, the cellar. He played all those places.

The dark spot. So you guys might even have played together at some percent. So it's, I grew up hearing about these times. Exactly. The Cheetah. No, we played all in those kind of play. Well, that's the Cheetah. The Aragon Ballroom.

Right. They turned it into the cheetah. And there was one in New York and there was one in Chicago, the Argonne. And it's, yeah, they, because they had this beautiful kind of, if you walked in, it was all, it was supposed to be. It was kind of psychedelic, right? Yeah, they changed it. In other words, so behind it, you saw all these like worst towers and things because the original ball. It's still there.

Yeah. Yeah. We just waited it recently. So, yeah, you know. So what they did is they just underneath it, they put in, in psychedelic lights. Did you ever open for any other kind of famous bands? Yeah, well, we opened for, well, we opened for Neil Diamond once. We opened for...

He was pretty hot back then. Yeah, he was pretty hot. And we played at the Dick Clark used to have a thing called a Dick Clark Young World's Fair. They'd have the International Amphitheater in Chicago. So we played along with the Kingsman, who had Louis Louis at the time. We played with Dave Clark Five. Oh, that's nice. We played with Sam the Shaman, the Pharaoh.

But we, like I said, we were the local opener ban. I just think it's interesting because not many, I've met very few people who actually were in the world that you were in. Oh, yeah. That's the world that I heard about growing up. In fact, we played at Kentucky State Fair, and we played with a group called The Missing Links. Right. Who, as it turned out, Chicago Transit Authority. It became Chicago Transit Authority in Chicago.

In fact, we remember it was kind of monumental when they changed their name. Because we were playing, I remember we were playing at the Cheetah, which was the old Aragon Ballroom. and they were on an off night as the missing links, and they came to see us, and they came backstage during the break, and he said, hey, we're changing the band. We're getting rid of a guitar player, because the father and a guitar player weren't.

He didn't have an Italian name. Yeah, whatever. And so they said, we're going to let Terry, who was the bass player, Terry Kat, Terry's going to play lead, and we're adding a trumpet and a trombone, because they already had the sacks. Walter Perez Zana was already sacked.

So they went from a four-piece band to seven. And he says, and we're going to call ourselves, Chicago Transit Authority. And we're like, oh, great. And then, of course, when they left, we went, they're nuts. How are they going to support seven guys? You know, seven-piece bands were unheard of. I want to ask you, because you were in this environment. My father often talked about the reason he was fearful of those times, and he didn't maybe get as far as he would have liked, was the sort of the mob influence in Chicago involved in the clubs and in signing bands. True, absolutely true. We were the house band at a place called a Purple Twit.

in Lions, Illinois. And Lions, Illinois was like... As soon as you say lions, I start laughing. Because we know what that means. Well, you know what that means. Because in that small town, that you had a place called the Gigi, a go-go, you had the Club Algiers,

you had the Purple Twig, and all these things were a little nefarious in terms of ownership and what they were all about. And there was this one guy who used to hang out there. You know, he sat at the bar, and we were at a house band there. We played for many...

Now remember, he called us. He said, I think I get it with you guys. I got a business proposition. So we all met at my house, my parents' house. And he explains to us, he goes, look, I got these connections in Vegas. You guys will be the band and you'll play. And he was very frank about who we would be working for, basically. He said, you'll never be out of work.

He'll be working all the time because, and we get nervous. We're like, you know, 17 years old and we're thinking, you know, we started making up stuff like, yeah, no, we would love to, but, you know, I've got this sick mother we take care of and we can't leave town. You know, whatever it is. we decided not to take that route. Yeah. And so we, but there were,

there were a couple bands that kind of went that group way. Was it the thing back then that they would kind of give the wise guys like clubs? Like they kind of, you ever hear that? The idea would be that, you know, a guy would be a wise guy. Yeah. Kind of get a little old, on the older side, not want to be in the game as much. Oh, give him a club. They kind of give him a club so he can make his money.

It sounds right. I mean, it's certainly. I'm not saying you have knowledge. I'm saying, you heard. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Absolutely, because in a way, much of Vegas was kind of like that anyway. It's really true.

I mean, you know, a lot of the, even the casinos back then. One funny thing I wanted to tell you, you guys played with the Buckingham's. I'm sure you'd probably do. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was a kid, my father was close friends with Nicky Fortuna, the bass player. Okay. So I remember being five years old, like in Nikki's house. Oh.

You know what I mean? And Nikki had the brand-new Cadillac. Sure, sure. Fortune of the Buckingham's, you know what I mean. So I was close to Dennis Tofano, which he was the lead singer. Yeah. So I just think it's so cool that, you know, despite our very different paths in life, we have this beautiful kind of connection there.

Absolutely. To that time, because it was, I think most people have a hard time understanding that music culture back then, particularly, was very small. There weren't a lot of musicians, you know what I mean? Not like there is now. I mean, there was like, in all of Chicago, there was only a handful of bands and everybody kind of knew each other. Right.

My dad even talked about how you'd play a set, pack up, go across town, play another set. Yeah, yeah. It was just a different culture. No, it's true. And there'd be these teen clubs that's, you know, and if you did well at a certain club, you'd, you'd be a semi-regular. Yeah. Sometimes, I mean, literally, when the band.

You've got to play nice music for the people. Well, exactly. Yeah, look nice. And I remember one instance, when Chicago became Chicago, when they became Chicago Transit Authority and they started to want it to do their own stuff. Yeah. But the kids back then, you know, this is the 60s. They want to hear.

They want to hear top 40. Yeah. So I remember literally there was one night. It was a Saturday night. We get a call from one of these clubs. I think it was the Blue Village out Westmont. They gave us a call, say, can you guys get out here? You're off?

Because we were off that night. We happened to be off. Can you guys get out of this goddamn man, the transit authority? They won't play what the kids want to hear, and they're booing them and stuff. And they're pissed. And he says, I'm going to get rid of it.

If you guys can make it, I'm going to get rid of them. You guys finished the night. And we, well, okay, we packed up, and we went. And the guys were getting, they were packing their stuff. And we're, like, feeling bad for them. And we're thinking, how stupid are they? Why don't they just play? You know, do the shadows of night glory.

That's what they want to hear. You know, and they're like, you can see they're mad or leaving. They weren't mad at us. But, of course, it wasn't long afterward. Their first album came out, and that's when I realized I got to do something else. So in poking around on your story, I feel like there isn't much information of like what started your interest in acting. Like, if it's a story that's been off told, I'm sorry, but I couldn't find. Like the one quote that was like, I saw somebody and I decided or somebody in my family.

To try to make it concise, it's this. I had seen the movie. I had no inkling to be an actor, nothing pointing my direction, nobody in my family, nothing to my culture. I hadn't even seen a play until I was like 15, 16 years old. But I saw the movie West Side Story was captivated. I stayed in the theater at that time. I was the Olympic Theater in Cicero. Saw it probably four times in a row because long as you stay in your seat,

they never took you out you know so I watched thinking this is fair so like maybe six what was it about that that's so it was just because it was the music the dancing the urban thing I grew up in interstate of Chicago you see yourself somewhat not that it was in a gang culture

I get you but it was like it was an identity yeah it was like a fantasy gang and I'm thinking I live on the streets like this I have friends like this were like wow you know we never lived in a house I always lived in apartments it made I can relate to it so sometime later must have been within a year or so, there were signs at the high school saying,

auditions for a West Side Story, go, what the hell is that? Oh, wow. I already saw the movie. What did they make it? And I didn't know it was a play. They said, no, no, no, no. It's a play? God, maybe could it be possible, you know?

And I think, I'm going to try out for this play. So I learned. Fantastic. Yeah, I go in, I audition. I didn't get the part. But I got up on stage. That doesn't make for a good movie. You're supposed to get the part.

No, but in a way it was good because I got up. I sang the song, but I was only 15 years old. I think. I sing the song. I get to the last note, Maria. My voice hadn't even changed. And I got this applause. And I thought, man, nobody's ever applauded anything I've ever known before.

And it was that moment. I said to myself, I got to, I got to pursue this. Wow. I'm going to pursue this. Was anybody in the family who had a history with? Nothing. No. Wow.

Nothing. No. Once in a while, when I was growing up, they would say, Joey, sing that Johnny Ray song, you know. Prying. We're no heartache. You know, I was like at the birthday parties, I'd be the, Did you know that whole thing about Johnny Ray how he had hearing aids and all that? I did.

That's such a crazy. Yeah. That's super deep Johnny Ray stuff. Yeah, it is. How he's saying like that. Maybe that's why he sang like that because he couldn't hear him. Him and Gene Pitney were like my two favorite singers back in the day. Please forgive the projection, but the Chicago I remember, particularly the Italian neighborhoods, you know,

they wouldn't necessarily think of a life in the arts as a masculine, No. As a masculine endeavor, did you get, did you get guff from the neighborhood? I didn't get really guff from the neighborhood. It was more like, like, more like, okay. You know, I think they, maybe they just trusted that maybe it's just a phase or just like, I guess it's okay. It's not. And what kind of surprised me was that I had no reaction from my parents, my mother and father, who were pretty fairly old school. And my brother's eight years older than I am. So I remember asking my brother later on. I said, you know what? Mom and dad never made any mention about me doing it,

wanting to be an actor and going to a show business. Did they ever talk to you about it? It goes, actually they did. He says early on, we looked like you were taking this seriously. They said to him, said, your brother, this thing with the acting, should we say something? They wanted, like, permission to stop me, maybe. And God bless my brother in his wisdom, you know, said, look,

Joey's, he's a good kid, he's smart enough that if it's his face. he'll leave it alone and walk away and do something that's an amazing thing to find out later though right if all that's later and that's exactly what it was and and my mother lived to be a 101 years old and i'm fairly convinced that she really didn't know what i did for a living even up until she died she kind of knows an actor people have her watch things i did but she didn't understand it and didn't care you know it's like that's just old country stuff she didn't really understand just like it was more like it didn't she couldn't relate to it as the point of she was more interested how are your kids doing, this, that, and the other.

And this is what my son does. But it's like not, she wasn't like, okay. That's so funny. As long as you're safe and having a good time. So how do you end up in hair, 1969 is what my name? 169. Well, I mean, that was. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. There was a nude scene. I mean, it's, they make, you know, it's on paper. It sounds more exciting than it was. But still. I mean, the first act ends with, you know, everybody's, we've got this giant, almost like, tarpaulin, but it's made out of like gauzy material. And we're all seeing, the whole cast is like floating it and singing, you know, whatever we're singing the song was at the time, it ends the

first act. And then you throw it up in the air and we all go up under it. And then these lights shine on it on it and it makes the pattern of flowers. And there's little slits in the thing. And so now we're underneath the thing, we start going, beads, flowers, freedom, as you come up each person through the slit, they're naked because underneath you took off all your clothes. Okay. But you've got strobe lights going. You've got flashing lights. You've got, you've got But this, it's... So it's like a moment of liberation. It's like a moment of liberation.

And it's also Tom O'Horgan, a director realizing, this will sell. This doesn't be a good publicity thing. Was this a localized hair production? No, no, this was the Chicago... I mean, it was same director, Tom O'Horgan. No, it was Broadway, the Broadway show was still going on. Okay, that's what I was trying to understand.

It was a huge hit. Think of it like being, uh, nowadays would have been Hamilton. It was, it was monstrous. It was huge. So it was the Broadway show. Now they opened a production. Where did you do it in Chicago? The Schubert Theater.

Shuberet Town Town Town. So there was an L.A. production at the Aquarius Theater. They renamed that Theater of Aquarius. Then we had the Chicago production. So one time it was those three. Then they started open others. And we ran for like a year and a half in Chicago. It was a huge hit.

How did you feel about the grind of theater life? Because that's, I've never done live theater. But it always strikes me the whole eight shows a week. Yeah, well, with hair, when I was maybe 20 years old, so, I mean, I'll do 16 shows a week if they're why. I mean, it was... I'll be naked as they're. Yeah, I mean, because it was fun.

I mean, it was free form. It was, it was, it was, it was exciting. I mean, to this day, I'm still close friends with many of the people from this show. Sorry, this is an indulging question, but, like, I mean, being naked in this culture isn't really a big deal anymore. But being naked in that culture was a pretty big deal. It was a big deal, yeah. Did you, did you, is there a self-consciousness that goes on with being naked, suddenly in front of the world?

There was something empowering about because Tom O'Horgan during the rehearsal progress really kind of instilled in us. He says, don't be embarrassed. They're going to be more embarrassed than you are. You've got to own it. This is what, you know, and you got to remember 1969 peace, sex, drugs and rock and roll. Woodstock had

just happened. So it was like, no man, this is, uh, Vietnam War was on. So as the audience was more nervous than we are, you know. Plus they'd all heard about us. Yeah. And remember a lot of the a lot of the cast's parents either would not see the show

or if they did or were a little nervous. But my mother, of course, my mother came. Oh, of course she came. Okay, she may not understand what you did, but she understood you standing naked. Yeah, but it was great. Afterwards, the cast was so impressed by this. My mother comes backstage and goes,

oh, the play was great, and you were great. She goes, and you got a nicer body than a lot of these kids. And that was her comment. And some of the kids in a cast whose parents were like aghast that they're their child was in a nude scene. Not even a scene. It lasts for 10 seconds.

But my mother's take on it was like, you look pretty good up there. I thought that's my mother. That's why she lived there be 101. Nothing bothered her. I'm particularly obsessed with Godspell because I don't know why. It's just one of those weird things in American culture. Like I saw it as a kid with no context.

Right. I knew there was Jesus Christ Superstar. Right. And I got the Godspell was somehow related. It was another Jesus-like. Exactly. But I remember seeing it at the time, you know, somewhere in the 70s, maybe on television or something, and thinking, this is so weird. Right.

And it strikes me as such an anachronistic kind of moment in time, you know, Jesus personality cults. Right. So you didn't see the play in Chicago in the early 70s? No. Because you would have seen me do it, but go ahead. No, I didn't. I wish, because I'm getting there. But I did see like a revival production maybe 10 years ago in New York.

Okay. And it felt a bit musty, but because it's very much of its time. Got it. You know, it has a 1972 kind of thing to it. That's when I did it. Yes. I mean, usually, literally, when you watch it, even the movie version, it feels like what Chicago felt like to me as a kid in 1972. It was like people wearing macromay and whatever that was.

Right. Those types of faces, those types of bodies, that type of optimism even. Mm-hmm. And, of course, you play Judas in the thing. Mm-hmm. So what you're, of course, if you want to share anything about being in the, but I'm more curious how you see God spill in the rearview mirror as a sort of cultural moment, because I think it's such an, if you look across the American landscape,

there are these moments where things kind of, there they are, but they don't really make sense. Like they don't necessarily translate 50 years later. Right, right. You know, like you were in Godfather III, right? Right. So that's one of the people still talk about the Godfather. Right. People are obsessed with the Godfather.

Right. Not so obsessed about God's Bill. Right. And it came out of a, whether it was a junior college production or something. It was a college production that John Michael Tubblock and Stephen Schwartz kind of got to get to go. And real people came in and put money behind it and fixed it. And then it became what it became. And it's this institutional thing.

Right. So I'm saying you having been at sort of the ground zero of this moment and also in the production, I'm just curious for your sort of reflections on that. Well, my reflection was, it relates a little to what you said earlier, the thing about the Jesus thing. Because I remember right after hair closed, the next thing I tried out for was Jesus Christ Superstar. Okay. Because that was like, was like, wow, okay. And I went to New York and that didn't work out, you know, which was fine.

But then within about six months later, God's, so it seemed like there was like an influx of like, wow, these Jesus got things happening. But indulge me here. what's a theatrical trial like that? Like, you'll go to Broadway, okay, it's a big production. It's Andrew Lloyd Weber, right? For Jesus Christ Superstar? Yes, it was. I have a funny story.

They once asked me to rewrite the music for Jesus Christ Superstar. Oh, wow. And Andrew Lloyd Weber didn't like my answer, and I got thrown out of the whole thing. That's another story. But just take me through a theatrical edition because I literally don't know anything about theater world. Well, in essence, you know, at that,

a song and then be prepared to do whatever they ask you to do. And after having done here, I was pretty comfortable with that because Tom O'Hurgan being the free-form director that he was, and it was more like they had a living theater back then that was out of England and stuff like that. And so, like the 60s, it was all wide open. You never knew what to expect. And so there was no, there wasn't like a real format or a strict kind of,

okay, do this and do this. More like, okay, let's see. what do you got. Hey, how about doing an improv of this? Or pretend you're a dog. You never know what they were going to throw it. They could throw you in the deep end just to see. They could throw you in a deep end just to see what you're going to do. And so having done hair made it easy for me because that's our

whole rehearsal process. And like I said, hey, I've been naked on stage. What more can you could you ask me to do that I won't try? So what's God spell in Chicago then? Chicago was the Studebaker Theater. Okay. Which was on Michigan Avenue right above the artist's cafe. It was almost like just

just across the street basically from the art Institute just down the block. Okay, yeah, I know. You know, it was in the fine arts building there. They used to have, like, you can go there for voice lessons or work because, you know, learn instruments in that building. But they had a nice theater. It was called the Studebaker Theater.

It's not, not the huge theater, maybe 1,100 seats. So we did that for, I did that for about a year, that theater of God's spell. And it was, it was great. I mean, it was, you know, it's the gospel according to St. Matthew, I believe. it's either Matthew or Mark, it's one of the M guys. I get lost in the hippie stuff. Yeah, yeah. But it was, and he was influenced a lot by, I think, the production of hair.

Because I remember when I came in and they saw on my resume, you were burger in hair for like two years because they had done a year and a half and did a national tour. And I could see that John Michael Teblack was like he respected that. Like in other words, oh, these are the kind of people. Maybe he was looking for. Oh, interesting. I think.

I kind of felt that. free, there's a freedom in the, in the production somehow? Yeah, that's what, and I think that's what it was. I mean, I think it was that thing of like, oh, you'll, you'll get it. You get where I'm maybe trying to do so. Sorry to jump back, but, but were you always okay with the, the grind? You said you, you like the, the virility of you was fine with it, but like, walk me through the grind of a year, year and a half production, same theater, eight shows a week.

Well, it's, it, it's, you're getting into the essence of what's the, and I get this as, I that asks this often, what's the difference between working in a theater and working in a movie and television? And to me, that's the definitive answer is like, all right, you're doing a play, whether it runs a year, and I've done plays that have run over a year, two years. There's a routine that happens, maybe similar in a way to a band, in the sense that you know you're going to show up at a certain time, you're going to do this thing, you're going to go up there, you're going to do it, when it's over. The experience, what you get from that live audience is you're energized. You draw this energy from them.

So when it's over, you're not like, you're like, oh, you're charged. Where are we going? You go to dinner. You go out. And then maybe at 2 o'clock in the morning, you're out. Unless you're going to make it. You're going to next. You got to go.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. There were instances I played that up. Judas groupies? Were there Judas groupies? There were Judas groupies. There was a group called, I'm trying to think of the name, The Process, in Chicago.

You know, there's a book on that. Okay. A friend of mine put out. the book. It's all about the process church. I know all about it. Oh, you know about it. Oh, yeah. Okay. They were very big in Chicago at the time with the capes. Oh, yeah. And they always had like German Shepherd dogs and the girls were always attractive. The girls were hot, right? The girls were I mean, if you're going to start a cold, right? And it was right. They had these crosses. Yeah. And they were, and so. They came to see Gatspel and I'm playing Judas. And Godspell at the intermission.

This is such a good story. Yeah. Well, during the intermission, you invite the audience on stage. you give them little cups of wine. That was the thing. That was like the gimmick of the intermission, you know. And so one night, some of the process people came to the show, and they come on stage, they got the capes on the thing. And, of course, I'm Judas. So they made a beeline toward me.

They're like, hey, you know, we're like, we'd like to, like meet with you sometime. You know, I said, all right, cool. And I invited them to come to my apartment, like the next day. Because I'm thinking, because there were a couple of hot chicks. I mean, I'm thinking, this can't be bad. And I like their outfits. I swear to God, I was taken by the cape. Oh, they look amazing.

The cape was beautiful because it was nice cape with the red lining. Now they, listen, they did it right. So I met with them. They came to my apartment. I had this basement apartment on Fullerton in Chicago. They came to the apartment. And they give me this whole pitch about who they are, what they do, that they believe that the bad angels are, we learn something.

Whatever it was. It was a... They lost me right away. It was like... It's sort of a long-range excuse just to do whatever you wanted to. Yeah, it was like, well, if Judas was the worst person in the world, you know, God forgave him, so how bad can we be, maybe?

I don't know. That's the foundation. So bottom line, they wanted... And what I wanted from them was a cape. That's really all I was interested. So I said, well, look. You're killing me. I said, I don't know.

I said, this is all interesting. I said, but can I get one of the capes? And we'll say, well, no, we can't give it a cape. I said, well, maybe, how about one of the dollar? Or one of the girls in the case. Or one of the girls that are in the cross is kind of cool. I'm just going for some of the accoutrements. You know, but I wasn't into their whole thing.

Yeah. And the guys' names were all phony names like, you know, like some biblical. Yes, exactly. These biblical names that I'm thinking to myself, this guy's real name is like Freddie Gavanovich from Irwin. Oh, amazing. So, but that was my. Thank you for sharing that.

That is so good. Because I feel like I saw them back in the day, but I think I just imagine it. You don't know what I mean? No, you saw them. They were there. Right? Yeah.

They were just kind of a rack. They didn't last long. It was like it lasted a year. Probably, you know, knowing Chicago politics. It's kind of like a band. Like the great bands really don't last very long. You can't keep the... No, in Chicago politics back then, I'm sure the Alderman probably said,

get those kids off the street. They're just, you know, blocking the sidewalk. So in the movie of your life, we know how it ends, right? You've had this incredibly long career, you know, 200 movies and television shows. I mean, it's almost... like there's so many rabbit holes we could jump down into amazing things you've done. But I'm struck really by those intervening years, I think 69 to 77, let's say. Okay.

You're not a struggling actor, but you're not a star. Not at all. So you don't have to go point by point, but like walk me through your mindset during those times. You know what I mean? Like, wait, what keeps you going is, you know, I'm not. going to be a star someday, this guy believes in me? Like, what is, what is the animating feature for you? The star aspect of it never came into play. And also, first of all, I was with the, this, we, the girl I'm with today, we will be celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary in October.

Amazing. But we had gone to high school together, and we'd done plays together. She was in the high school, I was in the junior college where we do these district-wide musicals, and so we knew each as it turns out, we both get cast in hair. And that's when we first hooked up. So, In 1969 was like, hey, you're trying out for this? We made it to the callbacks. We both got cast. In fact, she got a lead role before I did. So your relationship goes back.

So our relationship goes starts in 1969, I mean, where we're a couple. Then we got married on top of the Eiffel Tower in 1975 when we were on tour with the organic theater company out of Chicago making $100 a week. We figured, hey, we're in Paris. We'll probably never get here again. Let's go to Top of Eiffel Tower and we'll just do it hippie style. We'll just do our vows. There was there, there happened to be a Chinese guy up there that we used them as a witness and you,

come here, I didn't know, you know, we didn't know him. We said, you're the witness. Yeah, but that's the day we celebrate, you know, our anniversary, October 4th, 1975. So, but in terms of what I was doing, I was with this, after Godspell, I joined this group, the Organic Theater Company out of Chicago, was run by Stuart Gordon,

had some wonderful actors, came out of that, Dennis Franz, Mishak Taylor, John Hurd and Stuart. Chicago has had a had a good rep back then for theater you know. Yeah.

Something about even like even the people that came out that ended up in SNL and absolutely. There was a sort of a vibe. Well, there was Second City was happening. He had Steppenwolf got started then with all the wonderful actors that came out of that.

There was the remains theater. I guess what I'm saying and you know it because you were there, but there was a sort of a feeling in the air that Chicago had something unique to offer as a voice. And I think the reason was is because we had nothing to lose and nothing to gain.

Well, everything was New York. You either go to New York, you go to L.A. and be in TV and movies. Go to New York and be in the theater. But you know as a fellow Chicago, when you grew up there, especially then, all you heard about was New York. Right. It was like we didn't even, what we cared about didn't mean anything to anybody. No, exactly.

You didn't see it represented on television. Now it was all these Chicago fire, Chicago, this. There was Chicago nothing. No, you got no respect. Other than a gangster was untouchables. Yeah, Al Capone and all that. That's all we got. That's all we were.

I grew up in Cicero. That was it. I used to live in Cicero, too. Our family got run out of there. So that's another story for another day. There you go. But yeah, that's the one with the high school, junior college. Yeah.

They named them down the street after me in front of the high school. I know the world that you grew up in. You know the world. Yes, you know the world. It's a very rigid mind. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, again, what are you telling yourself during those years?

As long as I'm working and we're good. Long as I'm having a good time. I'm doing what I like to be doing. Yeah. Did you love acting? Did you feel it in your bones? I did. I loved performing. I loved the feeling of the camaraderie.

It was like similar to being when I was in the band. Yeah. It was like. You're in the group. And I had to make that choice. I mean, when the band was doing pretty well, I was making decent money as a good cover band that we were. But it was really when that first Chicago album came out,

and I saw how good it was. And I thought, we'll never do that. And yet I was also acting on the side, doing junior college and doing plays. I thought, I can't do both. And then when I got cast in hair, that sealed a deal. Because now I'm doing eight shows a week, I can't be in a band anymore. And that did it.

That's what I said, I got to take this path. In thinking I was going to talk to today, I don't know, maybe it's the songwriter in me. I like to work with visual images, right? And the visual image that came to me was like, how many times you sat in a makeup chair? Yeah. Not that there's anything glorious about it, but my point is, is you've got to really want to be there at 6 a.m. No.

On a cold set. Yeah. But there's a certain fantasy and excitement of the fact that I'm sitting in a makeup chair. You're doing it. I'm not, I'm not a general. We know how the movie ends.

That's where your story is good. I'm not a general motors putting a fender on a Chevy. But I'm just as interested in those years because, you know. Right. It was great. It was exciting.

It wasn't like the first time you stepped on a stage and somebody said, hey, Hollywood, kid, let's go. You had to work your way. But it's like I know you're a big baseball fan. I know you're a big cub fan as I am. Look at your left. There you go. There you go. So I relate a lot of it to that.

Yeah. I think of it. Those are the years that I'm in the minor leagues. In the minors. Okay. And so I think if you question any ball player, they'll speak fondly of those years. So what did you learn in the minor leagues that you still I think you learned everything that you needed to do to get, to stay

in the major leagues. Okay. Let's put it that way. How to keep out of a slump? How to keep out of a slump? What it takes to get where you got to get and realize that, you know, the one thing may lead to another and it's okay and it's going to be periods of things don't happen. When you, when you would hear people whisper about you because inevitably when you're in the entertainment business, people around you will start to tell you what your value is. Does it make sense? Yeah. So in those years before you start to really bust out of the pack, are people telling you you're just a character actor,

you're not a leading guy? Like, you know, what were people giving feedback? to you that... I feel fortunate that I had really a lot of positive reinforcement because I was getting good roles. In other words, I was... I started out as one of the tribe in hair and within six months I was one of the leads in here.

I was instantly because Judas and Godspill. When I got to the organic theater, the very first play I did there became a lead role. So whoever the people were making that... But is there a doubt that creeps in? Because, you know, sooner or later, there's going to be an agent in the theater. Yeah.

We had the same thing. There's somebody coming to sign you or not sign you. Right. When those opportunities didn't click, maybe in the way that you would hope to, you saw somebody else in your world get plucked out and taken to L.A. Yeah, I saw that on occasion, but it never dissuaded me in the sense because I guess I just still felt fortunate to be just doing what I'm doing. I've been lucky to meet you a few times in real life, and you always strike me as somebody who

has a sort of an inborn optimism. Is that a fair thing to say? I do think so because I hopefully think I've got. that from my mother because my mother, I think the reason she lived to be 101 is because everything went, I mean, you know, unless it was a cool customer, I mean, unless it's life or death, we'll get through this. And I like to think of that, you know. The first time I met you, I, not that you would remember, but I wanted to talk to you about bleacher bums because I'm obsessed with bleacher bums. For those who don't know, bleacher bums was a theatrical production, local in Chicago.

Right. The reason I saw it was because it was on the local PBS station, which they aired it ad nausea. That was the original cast, too. Which, you know, you were. Yeah. Well, I conceived the play. That I know, but I'm saying is, so I have a visual in my mind 10 years old. I remember seeing you in the play.

Right, right, right. And when you gain, you know, so much prominence and you maintain that prominence, I didn't necessarily put together, like, let's call it, the 40-year-old version of you with, you know, the 25-year-old version of you. but I think it's so cool because it's such a seminal weird Chicago moment, but I think for the indulgence of the crowd watching, give the one sentence or two sentence pitch on what Bleacher Bums was. Bleacher Bums was me being a Cove fan starting at like five years old, going to club games, now jump cut to me like 19 years old

sitting there and out interested in being an actor in that aspect of my life and realizing I'm back at Wrigley Field again I'm looking around I'm thinking what the hell they got 40,000 people here to see this mediocre team play and I said I'm with this theater company

and were they mediocre in 1975 yeah and I'm in this theater company trying to get we're trying to get 100 people into the theater where the show that's basically got good reviews I'm thinking what what is it what is it what's that thing that brings the fans

here no matter what and that was the impetus for me to say, there's a play here. If I could tap on to what these people are feeling about the Cubs here in a play. So the baseball fans watching, the show takes place basically in a section of the bleachers. Yeah. You walk into the theater and you think you're walking into Rigby Field. And for historical context, back then, now, of course, you have to get your tickets in advance.

But back then you could show up the day of the game. Absolutely. I think it was a buck 50. Yeah, I think it was a buck in a quarter when we did the play. Right. You could stand up at nine in the morning. You get in the game. And then depending on what...

where you sat, left field or the right field at Wrigley Field, which is, you know, the Cubs home for over 100 years. Right. Left field, hated right field. Right field hated left field. So they'd heckle each other. Yeah. And there was this like subculture that would go on.

So as a kid when I would go in the 70s, you would think, what is all this weirdness? Oh, yeah. It was like being surrounded by like 100 Bill Murray's. Oh, yeah. Everybody had a take and a character. It was very colorful. Left field were really the rowdiest. They were, they were wild.

That's why I always sat and right. I wanted nothing to do with left. Yeah. Left field was a lot, a lot of Vietnam vets. and stuff. These are the guys that when they play the Mets, they would throw snakes out onto the field because they knew that one of the outfielders for the Mets was afraid

of snakes, things like that. And Wrightfield was a little more sedate. And I gravitated toward these guys that were just to the right of the center section, the center that was always blacked out. Yeah, yeah, the hitting background. Yeah, the hitting background. And those were the older kind

of hardcore guys that didn't want anything to do with left field or right field. These were the gamblers. These were guys that were That's what Bill Beck used to sit, remember? He would sit over the time. And so that's where the play takes place because these were this group- I didn't know that. Yeah, the play takes right.

In fact, if you look at the set, there's this little fence right along that we're leaning against, and that's the fence that separates you from the black down thing. You just illuminated something that makes total sense to me. Yeah. Because I remember that crowd, too. Right. And I was fascinated because I'd sit with these guys. And, of course, the game was important, but it was only mostly important.

It was the game in the game. It was the game and a lot of bets are going on and arguments going on over something that's got nothing to do with baseball. And I thought, this is fascinating. If I could just capture this in a play, we got something. You really did. I mean, can you find it on YouTube or anything? Oh, yeah, I think you can.

I think the original production. If you're a baseball fan, I highly recognize. If you're a baseball fan, you should watch. It's a really particular moment. You'll see Dennis Franz before he was Sippowitz. So how do you, when do they start calling you? Your film debut is 1977, Medusa, a challenger. Right. So how does that process start where you start getting recruited into the film? Well, that was, that was a no-brainer because it was a college, it was a college thesis movie for a student from DePaul who wanted to make the movie. I didn't know if Hollywood had called. No, this was not Hollywood at all. So me and it's Jack Wallace. The first, the Hollywood thing was that there was a thing called Toeing with this, this woman decided to make this movie and she hired Sue Lyon, who had been in Lolita, the movie, Oh yeah. Okay, I know who you're talking about.

And then she was from Chicago and she got the financing from Chicago. And there was Morris Smith. And Mara got this money together and shot this, you know, basically a very low-budget Hollywood-type movie in Chicago. That was my, wow, I get to play. And I'm playing the boyfriend to Sue Lyon, you know. So what do you think looking back is what starts to pull you from, not the chorus, but, you know, localized productions where you are doing well

to where you start going into the bigger system. Is it just? One thing really changed my life in terms of, of professionally. I mean, I was banging around, banging around in Chicago doing, like I said, five years I was with the organic theater. Bleacher Bums was the last play I did with organic, because it was a fitting one, because it was the play. I had conceived it. It was very successful. We did it in New York. It ran off Broadway. We got wonderful reviews. We just weren't prepared for it, because we went in there just to do it for two weeks as a kind of like a showcase, but it got such

good reviews. They said, we've got to keep it open, but we didn't have enough money to really support it, to do ads and stuff. So it ran for a while. But then we had done a tour of the West Coast prior, and my wife and I decided, this was in 1977, we said, you know what, let's go back to California, at least the weather's nice, and we can do plays, and it wasn't like I wanted to be a movie star or TV star. I just wanted to be out of the snow because everybody who knew me knew the motto was when the snow blows, Joe goes, because I just hated it. So we came out.

I learned that lesson late in life, unfortunately. So we came to California, and I just, we did theater, we did some of the organ, we did bleacher bumps. Bleacher Bumbs out here? We did bleacher bums out here. We opened it in 1980. It ran until 1990. To this day, it's one of the longest running plays in Los Angeles history. That's why people should really see it.

It really isn't an anachronistic thing, but it's really beautiful. It was a waiver play. We only did like three nights a week, like Friday or Saturday Sunday, maybe two nights a week, three performances. But it ran for 10 years because it had that. Because it's fun. You don't have to be a Cub fan. There was a little improv thing that would go on, right? there was there a little wiggle room in the way that the cast would play the

It was pretty tightly scripted only because there's a baseball game going on So you have to follow every out every hit everything so you guys did it so well because I felt like you were almost kind of half-in-cropping No no it was all but that was the nature of our theater coming but ran at the Century City Playhouse on pico The element of us still there but it's a pico right near fox there and ran for 10 years so anyway I was doing stuff like that doing guest shots on Archie Bunker's place or Simon and buddies, greatest American hero. Exactly.

All that. Simon and Simon. Exactly. It was like, wow, you were in Simon and Simon. That took me way back. I just got, ironically, you mentioned that. I got a residual check for a penny yesterday for Simon and Simon. One penny.

I thought, zero one on the check. I thought, oh, that's welcome to Hollywood. But it was during that period. And I always still enjoyed myself. My wife and I were living in a one bedroom apartment, Studio City. And it was fine. I was doing what I like to do and making enough money to pay to rent. But then I get the phone call from a guy

I'd worked with in Chicago on and off David Mamet, who had done a few of his things in Chicago. You might have heard of him, yeah. Yeah, I might have heard of him. And he says, hey, Joe, I got this new play called Gary Glenn Ross. I'm thinking we're going to open it in Chicago. Maybe we'll get lucky. We'll take it to New York. Well, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Next thing I know, jump cut, they're handing me a Tony Award. They're handing him a Pulitzer Prize. Needless to say, that was a life-changing experience for me. 378 performances. You went, of course, the Tony for the best featured actor that year. And the character, Richard Roma, right? He has his own Wikipedia page, I found out.

I didn't know that. But I'm saying that's a hallmark of some cultural thing that that character that you played has his own Wikipedia page. He's become such a kind of like an avatar. I've got to check it out, yeah. So what was it about that play that you think was the kind of the zeitgeist moment for you? Not just you personally as an actor, but sort of like right time, right place. I guess in essence, I was ready for it in a sense that.

Okay, stop. Because I love this. This is my favorite part of interviewing someone like you. I like to slow this part down. Like watching Game tape. Okay. So take me through the game tape. Right place, right time.

What was it about you in that moment that you were ready? I'll put it this way. And I could maybe sum it up in the one sentence of being at the Tony Awards that night. When I had won the Tony, got up and handed me this Tony, the thing that I've been watching people get in acting school on TV saying, look at that, wow. The after party, somebody comes up to interview me and says, what's it feel like to win the Tony Award?

And I said, my response was, it's like winning the lottery, but I've been buying tickets for the last 15 years. and that's kind of what it was so in other words my point being 15 years prior I'd been doing all that stuff all the things you mentioned the plays that this that hair

it led to a moment where now I'm in a position again we'll make the baseball analogy you're banging around you did little league pony league you did the you played it in college you played American Legion ball oh you made it to the minors you know triple A

oh my God your first time at bat now you're at Wrigley Field and you're wearing a Chicago Cubs uniform and you're playing left field for the Cubs. What's that moment like? So on one hand you're like, I can't believe it. But then on the other hand, you've got to say to yourself, no, wait, I'm going to believe it

because I put in all that time that 15 years. So I was read, that's what I mean by Ready. In other words, the door opened. I was ready to walk in the door and say, excuse me, I'm closing the door behind me. I saw a quote where it said something like you, you went on stage every night, like a woof or something. I can't. It's like a matador. Thank you. Yeah. It's like it's the image of you like yeah it's my time.

I'd put on the especially for Glenn Gary Glenn Ross. I'd put on because luckily Mamet was of the of the mindset like you're supposed to be a very successful, you know, salesman. I'm not going to have you wear a cheap suit that looks expensive. I had like a $2,000 Versace suit I wore every night and I'd put that and here I'm on Broadway putting that suit on every night. Joey from the neighborhood. Joey from the neighborhood just like, yeah. you know, like a madador is putting on the suit of colors and saying, I'm going to fight the bull now. Yeah. And that was my mindset. I'm going to hit that stage.

I'm killing the bull tonight. I'm cutting off both its ears and giving him to the crowd. You know, moments like that don't happen often, you know, like in a long career, these beautiful peaks where it's like there's the role, there's the playwright, obviously one of the most famous of all time. There you are. You're on Broadway. You're not in Poughkeepsie.

right but um from a and i'm not an actor but i'm fascinated with the art of acting because like like uh i remember reading this story once where olivier was was in a i can't think of that the it's the it's the gosh i'm terrible it's the actor who was a big method actor around the time of the 50s and he saw him in the corner getting himself into a froth as a method actor oh i see and so you know uh olivia is standing there waiting So Olivia finally went up and said, you know, they call it acting for a reason. Yes, exactly right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what was it about your acting chop 15 years in the making that you, you know what I mean? Take me inside that. Like, like, like if you and I were reviewing tape of you as a hitter, what kind of hit, what kind of actor hitter are you? Sorry, it's analogy clash. Yeah, yeah. Because you have such an effortless style, I think. Well, let's put it this way. I'm not a method guy.

I'll put it that way. Okay, good start. That's why I tended to gravitate toward a lot of the British actors. I mean, I got to know Ben Kingsley pretty well because we did two movies together. Talk about a great actor. We did Bugsy and we did searching for Bobby Fisher together. So it became pretty close. And that's what I mean.

Ben is Ben. But Ben doesn't, you know what I mean? And we could be like talking like we are right now. And of all of a sudden, they said, action. He'd become whatever he'd become. And I would try to become what I'd become. do our thing. They say cut, then we go back to this. So it, I guess my point being, I follow that school of it. But is it, is it, is it an, is it an, is it an availability? Is it a, is it a,

I can, I can live in both worlds and not have to have sort of. I just think it's, it's, it's maybe just the way you've been trained or what, where you've been affected in, in your formative years of becoming, let's say, an actor. In other words, if you have a certain kind of training where it's been instilled in you, you should try this. do this and maybe if you want to be a homeless person, you should go live on the streets for three weeks and, you know, and even off hours act that way and don't let people address you by your real name. If that works for you, God bless you. I guess for me, I thought to myself, no, that's too much. I don't think I need to do that. Let's pretend. You know, it's like when you're a kid,

I'm going to pretend to be this. But as soon as your mother calls you to go for dinner, you got to stop pretending to do that and leave. Has anyone ever asked you, or have you put yourself in a position that you felt was beyond your reach as far as a character, meaning like, now you're a gladiator, you know what I mean? Or in your mind was your character... Well, you do your best to kill within a fool you are and what you can do. You know what I mean?

So I think you reach a point where you say to yourself, look, if they think I can do it, and they're sending me a check, I'll give it a shot, you know. Okay, so now here come the movies. It's impossible with you. There's so much work. I mean, somebody could interview for 20 hours about the work you've done. So we'll cherry pick a little bit here, but like three amigos.

Yeah, that was an experience. I mean, great movie. And, I mean, Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, Martin Short. Brought them two, I think, together, Chevy and, or not Chevy, but Steve and Martin Short. That started, I think that kind of the, why they're, you brought them together? No, no, I'm saying that movie. I think that was the thing that kind of started that relation, them doing that movie together. because you see them, you know, just on Saturday night.

I mean, those guys are so, I mean, they're like joined at the hip. And I think that was the beginning of it. Yeah. Okay, so now you're rocking. You're out making movies and you're in a steam company. Yeah. How's that feel because you'd earned it? You know, like I said, you weren't picked like 20 and somebody said, okay, come on.

Right, right. I got you. And they built you up in the old Hollywood thing. You had to kind of navigate your own way out here. And when I talk to young students and stuff, when they ask questions like that, something. The point I try to make to is this. You pay your dues in this business one way or another. So you're

either going to pay him on the front end or you can pay them on the back end. I paid mine on the front end. I paid mine on the front end. I was 15 years and I kind of got to that point where all of a said, oh, so that did prepare me for those moments, things like that. Like Godfather three, where my first line I have to say to Al Pacino where Francis Coppola is standing

there thinking, oh my God, this is the cop-up. You know, but yet some people, right out of the box, says like they get some major thing and now they're like, boom, there's catapulted the stardom. It's not like they're going to avoid paying their dues. Now I've got to pay those dues on screen, on camera, in front of everybody. And it's harder, I think, because now you've got to back it up. I know you know these conversations invariably a parent will pull you aside and said,

my kid wants to be a blank actor, musician. And I always find myself saying a variation of be careful what you wish for. Yeah, that's good. it's not an easy life. And especially to a parent, I'll say, if your kids got it, talent can't be stopped. That's right. But it ain't easy. And even when you make it, it ain't easy. It doesn't suddenly become a boulevard of roses. It gets complicated in ways that's almost impossible to explain. And you have to be careful that they're not trying to live vicariously through their sick, like wanting them to do it because they never got that shot or wanted to do it.

And so they're trying to instill it in them. You know, I obviously had the opposite that. My parents I didn't even know what the hell I was doing. I was going to say, I have to ask because I love, love, love old Hollywood, and you were in a movie with Don Amici. Oh, yeah, God, loved them. You know who when he, in his youth was like a romantic lead. But when he had this kind of interesting comeback in the 80s, he was kind of cast as almost like George Burns or something, like this kind of anachronistic character in a modern world. Well, it was a total fluke that he came back. I mean, it was trading places.

Oh, right. Right? Yeah. What had happened is, because of course, I got this whole story from Don, you know, himself. He made his last movie, like, in the 60s, and it was like Herbie and the Love Bug or something. And then he started to realize, you know what, I think this is it. Yeah. And he was fine with it.

You know, he's got a beautiful estate out in Encino, and he liked to go out to dinner at night, and that was it. He was done. What had happened was that movie was the two old men in the movie that make the bet. Yeah. ...was supposed to be Ray Maland. Okay. And I've got the other actor who actually did it. But Ray Maland, they were getting ready to shoot the film.

They purposely put all... Montgomery Cliff, I just remembered the name of that. Montgomery Cliff, exactly right. Yeah. I had to get it out of this. The nervous guy, exactly right. But they're getting ready to shoot... They were going to shoot on Monday, and they put the two old guys,

it was Ralph Bellamy, I think it was. Ralph Bellamy and Ray Maland. They're going to shoot all their stuff together in like one week because they were old. They figured we want to just shoot them out so we don't have to encumber them over the course. But Ray Maland hadn't done his physical, which the insurance company insists you get when you make a movie

because they have to bond the movie. It was Friday. They're going to start shooting on Monday. Multi-million dollar picture with Eddie Murphy. They just grabbed Don out of obscurity. No, no. What had happened is they called Ray's agent and says, hey, you know, you've got to get them to the doctor. to get the physical, and a movie physical is like they just want to make sure you live long enough

to make the movie. They really don't care how healthy you are. They really don't. Like how long are you in the movie a week? Yeah, you'll make a week. Well, the agent says, oh, okay, I'll make sure he goes to the doctor. This was like one of the first times in Hollywood history, what the doctor called the producers and said, when does he start? Monday? I don't know. I don't think so. And they basically said, they can't, the doctor would not sign him off. They said, no, this guy's, Ray Malin was in tough shape. And the agent was trying to get him one more job, figure two, two, two, weeks he'll make it. He can make a little money. So now they're stuck.

And they're talking, we can't, if we don't shoot on Monday, the sets, that we're done. And the producer said, I know I happened, and I heard this from the producer, because I got from both sides, the producer said, I happen to see Don Amici sometimes, because he's living in

Santa Monica at the time, I happened to see him walking on the beach on Sundays, you know, and he looks pretty good. It looks at good shape. And they said, well, track him down, see if you find an cut to the Chase, they tracked him down. They hire him. He does the movie. That starts his career again. The next thing movie he does is the one cocoon and he wins the Oscar, which, and when he gave his speech, I remember he gave the speech somewhat in Italian. And he explained to me how exciting it was because when he was a big star, he was the second star. Because the big star with the studio was Tyrone Power. He did all the A movies. Don did all the leads in the B movies. Romantically. Romantically, but you don't win Oscars for Romantically. You know, Kerry Grant never won a mask. That's true.

So, anyway, that was a big, big deal for Don. But what's funny is Don, the producer told me his story. That's how we got Don Amici. Don's version of it ended with, well, you know, Joe, they called me in, and they offered me the part, but I turned them down. I said, really? He goes, yes, he offered me shit money. He goes, and I always swore, I'm never going to come back to the business,

you know, in a bowing position. He says, so I went out to dinner that night, and at the restaurant, the Bainter D, brought the phone to the table, and said, Mr. Amici's a call for you, and it was them saying, well, we've met your price. And that's how we did the trading places. What a beautiful story. Yeah. Well, I'd be remiss.

I mean, we talked about it briefly, but Godfather 3, it's shocking how certain things in our culture become institutionalized. They almost grow beyond their thing. So what's it like to be? And you're a member of a few franchises. We'll get to the other ones in a second. But the Godfather, it's like, let's call it the family. You're part of the Godfather. Metaverse.

Yeah. How does that feel? Because it seems to me it's like, it's the way I look back in my life where I think, like, I did that. Like it's something you hang your hat on. My friend Vinnie Guestafaro, who's not Irish, but you can tell by the name. I thought he was my cousin. He made the one quote that sums it up when he found out I'd gotten a role. He says, Joey, you're going to be in the Italian Star Wars.

And I think, yeah, I guess that's really. Now that is some Chicago right there. Yeah, so that kind of summed it up. The Italian star? Well, sure, because you think about it, okay, I was going to, because yeah, because it would have been 18 years, I think, after the second one had come out, and now they're coming out

this new movie, and I find out I'm being considered for a role in Godfather that wanted it, you know, and play. What do you tell your wife that day? Yeah, well, what's really interesting is how I found out I had the role because I knew I was up for the role.

there's a pizza place it was I'm spacing on the name but it was in Studio City I go to this pizza place to pick up some dinner for my wife and night at night and I walk in and the owner

the place looks and he goes Joe Montaigne you're someone of a bitch you're going to be in a Godfather movie I said what you're going to be in a Godfather movie don't be goofing around with me and I knew I was up for this role but that's all I knew

the pizza guy knows the pizza guy I go what are you talking about? He goes, my nephew. He called me on the phone just a little while ago because he works in the office in the casting office in New York.

He said they put the pictures up under the wall. They got a picture of the Al Pacino. They got a picture of the Diana Keaton. They got a picture. They put up a picture of you. Under the wall. And I knew that casting,

that's how they do it when they put pictures up to kind of so you can all see. Here's our cast. I said, well, I said, I know I'm being considered. I rush back to the house with the, you know, Linguini.

and I call my agent. It was a Friday night. They call him at home. I said, the pizza guy just told me I'm in the guy. He goes, he goes, oh, I'm going to call you. I just got the call saying that. Wow. And so literally he told me, so I found out, he knew before I did.

Okay, so you just found out you're going to be in the godfather. Yeah, it's the godfather. It's the godfather. Hey, I'm part of that trilogy, you know. I mean, I don't think, you know. As an Italian American, I mean, come on. It was the Italian Star Wars. I mean, I was like...

I mean, you go back to the neighborhood. It's got to be like a party. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have to buy a drink for a long time after that. But yeah, it was monumental. And just to know, like, oh, and by the way, you're going to fly to Europe and you're going to shoot most of it in Rome, you know, a Chinni Chita studio where Fellini did his movies.

It was like, what more could be better about, you know. So that was, yeah, that was a whole experience unto itself. I'm not so much interested in, like, let's call it the boring part of being typecast. And it's less so these days. But you grew up in a world where it's like, okay, you become the Italian guy. Right. You know, somebody's like, I need an Italian guy. And then we look at four pictures.

Right. Well, I know him. Right. Are you conscious of that at the time or again? It's just, I'm so happy to be working. I don't care. My attitude was this. If it's a good role, what do I care?

The point is that I'm never going to. to play a Swedish sea captain. You know, I wouldn't cast myself. But could you? That's the question. I might, but then why would I? I mean, the point is, you know, maybe get somebody who's a little closer to the, to, to, to, to that thing. So no, I never, and also I feel lucky enough, fortunate enough that it did enough things that weren't necessarily. Did anybody ever try to get you to kind of de-accent yourself, you know? No, you speak, you speak in the world you grew up in. Not really. Because also I did like enough, because you take a, like a movie like searching for Bobby Fisher. I'm playing. you know, that father, in reality, he's Jewish, you know, the Weitzkin family.

And I'm playing that father. You just became Jewish right in front of you. Yeah, well, there you go. But so to me, the ethnicity that, like I said, I'm probably never going to play, you know, yump and he, I'm from Wisconsin, you know, that's not going to happen. I get that. But long as it, those are good roles and rules that I can grab it or I can embrace and say to myself, I can do that.

Yeah. And then there were times, believe me, when I was especially before things started going well for me and I was trying off a bit. parts. I would read them and it would be a role like in a sitcom where it was like, hey, oh, Jimmy, how you doing me, Jimmy, Jimmy? And I'd look, as I walked in the audition, and a couple of times I know I blew the audition because I'd look at the casting

people, I say, okay, what level of like, you know, of Rocky Bellwola do you want me to be? They'd look at me with this thing like, and I think, Oder, not amused. They don't want to be told that. Yeah. But I knew that's exactly what they wanted. They wanted, like, hey, you, they wanted John Travolta in the TV show. But it was okay.

I wasn't like offended because I thought that's Hollywood. That's where it goes. Okay. Got to be a little pressure playing Dean Martin at some point. Is that, from an acting point of view, are you conscious of doing a really good impression or you're trying to figure out your own version of Dean Martin?

It's a little of both. The point is the main thing was I was scared to death to do it, But then I was scared to death not to do it because of being offered it. I thought, oh, God, it's my chance to play a guy I idolized. But I thought, do I have it in me? Can I fool people for the two hours? What a great comedian he was. Oh, the whole thing and the look.

And so what I started to work on was I did all the research I could do. I read, you know, autobiographies of him, listened to tapes, watch. Did you talk to family members? Well, I reached out to Dina Martin, his daughter, because what had happened was it had gotten around that, Frank Sinatra's daughter, Tina, had wanted to co-produce the movie. Right. You know, with HBO. Yeah.

And they didn't want her to because, first of all, they didn't necessarily want anybody in the family. Saying, well, now you can't say that. You can't do that. So she was, from what I'd heard, she was a little bitter about that. So she was like calling all members of the other families, like Dean's family, saying, we got to boycott this movie. We've got to, da, da. And I felt so the opposite about the script and about how these men were being portrayed.

I got to, I knew somebody who knew Dina. I said, can you get a message to her and let her know that Joe Montagnan was playing her father, would invite her to the set if she wants to come, and I'll let her read the script, just to show her what respect I have for him and that started the relationship. But one thing that stuck with me, and it was almost in my key to playing him, was I thought, for two hours I have to suspend people's belief that I'm not Joe and that I'm Dean Martin. So how do you do that? But millions of biopics, you do what you can do.

But I thought, the sound, what's that sound? What does he sound like? Because if I can get a little bit of the sound, and then I started to think, what does he sound like to me? And then as a kid, I remember the sugar crisp commercials with the sugar bear. And the sugar bear would talk like this. Oh, can't get another little sugar crisp. Sugar bear here.

And I thought to myself, that's the kind of the cadence that DeMindon went talking about when he talked like the sugar bear. So then I started thinking whenever I had a line like, oh, all all these people get in my room. room. It was the sugar bear talk. Yeah. And that to me, once I had that in my head, I thought, long as I'm thinking the sugar bear, I'm kind of in a ballpark. Does the process of movie making, because you've been in so many movies, and I've been on a few sets in my life, not a ton. It's such a glacial slow process. Yeah. I mean, it's mind-numbingly slow, especially the higher

the production, the slower it goes. Absolutely, without question. Does it make you, cynical about the art? Because, yes, you have, the stage is very big. Yeah. You know, big movies, big stage. Right. But does it make you cynical sitting there all those hours? Because, again, you came out of theater where it's like that adrenaline shot every night. Well, fortunately, you have to, like I say, you have to, once you accept the fact that theater's

theater and film and television is that, it's two separate endings. How do you modulate your kind of emotions in it? I think it helps having the experience, in other words. the more you do it, the more you adapt to it. You know what I mean? Just I think for a singer, I would think the, maybe the best trade or equated is when you have to sing in front of how many thousands of people live where you go into a recording studio and you have to make the record.

Yeah, I get you. You know, it's that. Different zone. It's a whole different zone. One, you're trying to reach thousands of people hit that guy in the back row. The other one, you're putting it all into that mic. I'm putting it all into a lens. That's this big.

Especially acting to a camera is. such a different art than... Yeah, and it's fatiguing. Like we said earlier, about when you finish your performance, how you're energized and stuff. At the end of a movie day or TV day, you're like, sometimes you're a little beat up

because you've been up and down and up and down. You sat for an hour. You're up. You did five minutes. You're on fire. Now you're down. Now you've been up since 5 o'clock in the morning. So rather than going out to dinner,

you're going, I've got to get up. It's 5 o'clock for tomorrow. From a directing standpoint, who reached you the most, if that makes any sense. Like, you're sitting there and they're telling you and you're thinking like, wow, this is what real direction feels like.

I've been blessed with a lot of great directors. I've been starting with Coppola. I've done two pictures for Woody Allen. The two pictures for Barry Levinson. Mamet was wonderful to work with. I've been blessed to work with a lot of wonderful people. Barry Levinson comes to mind only because he had a background in improv and stuff.

He was out of San Francisco and worked with an improv group. So he kind of, knew how to so yeah so barry would be the kind of thing you'd be working like when I did the movie bugsy the script I thought was brilliant it was a wonderful script and so there was plenty to do within the confines

of the script and you played George Raft I played George Raft yeah who was in notorious lithario yes exactly exactly and then but I also did a film of Barry's called Liberty Heights which is somewhat autobiographical as part of that trilogy of movies he did with Diner

and oh okay I remember yeah and so the last one was Liberty Heights. And so within the framework of that script, which again was a brilliant script, but there would be moments when something would come to mind and I would try something like an ad lib or something. I remember there was one thing was a phone call because it takes place, it's a period piece. It kind of takes place in the 50s. And my son, we're Jewish family, and my son is out on Halloween and he's dressed as Hitler. And it's like, it's for Halloween. And my wife's complaining to me, he's out there playing Hitler. So I remember I did a scene

where I had the scripted was like, I get him, I said, I'm supposed to just say, get so-and-so with the character's name, get him, put him on the phone, I need to talk to him because he's at a Halloween party. But I remember I ad-libbed at the time, I said, hey, put, hey, put the furor on the phone, were you? Yeah, just that. But it was those moments that would, like, Barry was like, you know, you go, you know, go with it.

In other words, so he would let me then take it from there and ad-lib it. Yeah. So if you can find that kind of a director, and most of them would do that because it's a collaborative thing. Yeah. You know, oh, let's see what you got. And because even Woody would let you do that. You'd go with it. But if you were too far astray and maybe you'd just, they say, you know,

I want to go back to the words. You know what I mean? So it just depends. All direct, but it is a director's medium. And so you kind of got to take, take through to it. Who's an actor that you've stood next to and worked next to that you think, like, wow, like your chops blow me away? Like, who's an actor's actor for you?

Well, so many of them I have been. and I've been lucky. Pacino's one. Because Pacino is one of those guys that is not afraid to try something different. You know, so in here in Godfather,

he was playing a guy that was supposed to be older at that time older than he really was. And that's not that easy. But what is it about his acting that you kind of, is it a kineticism or like? I just think that because he was,

I think part of it is the sharing. In other words, the really good actors engage you. In other words. They pull it from. They pull it from you and they engage you. It's not them giving a performance and that you're on your own.

They realize that this is a collaborative thing that we're having a discussion here. You understand this in musical terms. Sometimes when you're jamming, you feel like they're playing the song but nobody's listening. Right. But when people start listening and you play something and you hear other people follow in, it creates this other harmonic that's really rich. Yeah. That's why bands were successful.

they've been together a long time. There's a listening that goes on. And it makes sense that they get better. And it's sensitive. You know, I've been on this TV show Criminal Minds though for 15 years. We're such a tight group because we know each other's nuances and things like that. And that's helpful. So another franchise, but we're technically alumnus of, is Simpsons.

Yes. I got to be on One Simpsons, the famous Homer Paloo's episode. Yes. Do you have that same experience where somehow when you're in the Simpsons thing, like it turns in this other thing, like you become part of this other story that has nothing to do with anything other than The Simpsons? Have you found that? Like, Simpsons fans are obsessive in a very particular way, and you'd be surprised who's a Simpsons fan? Oh, I know, yeah. And I've been doing that role now for 34 years. And I went in thinking I was going to do a one-shot deal because Godfather had just opened. I'm playing Joey Zaza as the Godfather. And I get this script to play this character, Fat Tony, and the Simpsons is a mob guy. And I went, okay, I get it.

The same guy doing Godfather. So typecast me. But it'll be fun. And I did it, thinking that'll be it. And they're great people. Oh, great people. Little did I know what I kept calling, saying, you know, we like to, you want to come do another one? Yeah, I'll do another one.

I've been doing them now for 34 years. And it's wonderful because it gives you a chance to, first of all, it's a reason it's run that long because they've kept the quality of them. They're smart enough to keep the writing still clever. interesting, but you're right, the fan base. What's interesting is when you travel the world, because I was doing a mini-series in Australia, and I get there,

and I thought it was a pretty big deal that they're doing this mini-series in Australia, and so we sit down and sit with the guy to interview me. Like the first two questions were, oh, you're here to do this great, next thing you know, tell us about Fat Tony. And the next, the whole interview was about The Simpsons.

And I'm thinking, I said, I finally had to say, I gather the Simpsons is big out here. Oh, yes. Stimson's very big. Yeah. I told someone in my world that I was going to be talking to you. And the next day, some business, da-da-da, business, business.

At the end, it says, and I'm very jealous you're going to be talking to Fat Tony tomorrow. Oh, no, yeah. That's how you know you've kind of crossed the cultural Rubicon. You know, we all get fan mail. I get as much fan mail for Fat Tony as I do for David Rossi for criminal minds. And as many want that picture signed of Fat Tony. That's what I love about America. It's like the high and the low.

I mean, Tony Award-winning actor, you've been in, you know, you've been in some of the biggest movies of all time. And so, by the way, can we talk about that Tony? No, I remember. And, you know, Simpsons always have a fairly big elaborate party at the end of their season. Because usually the end of their filming season or recording coincides with them releasing the first episode on the... Because they have such a lead time. It's kind of a launch, but also a rap. So they have these massive parties.

They have them now, but universal because they have Simpsons' world up there. Yeah. They even have a fat Tony dish in the Italian restaurant up there and up there. But I don't even know where I was going to go with this thing. We're just talking. Simpson's World. Yeah. Rap party.

Yeah. It's okay. Oh, I know what it was. So one day, I'm going to one of the parties, sometimes fans know they, some of them can get into the party because they have such a connection. But some are just waiting outside because they know they're going to meet the people who were in the Simpsons. I remember one guy was there waiting. And he obviously was waiting for me because he sees me, Joe, Joe, Joe!

I'm trying to be courteousal with the fans. They pay my way, you know. I said, oh, hi, how are you? He goes, I want to show you something. And he lifts up his arm. And he's got the tattoo of him, you know, like, and you don't even know what to say. Like, all I can think of is,

I hope he doesn't follow me home, you know, is all I can think, you know. But like, oh, great, congratulations, you know. One thing we also share, and it's a bit serious, but I want to talk about it because I think these things are important to talk about. Your daughter has autism. Very traumatic birth.

I read a long thing on it. I have a brother. I was born with autistic. Not always, it's always been a bit. I'm a spectrum. But I wanted to talk about that a bit because, you know, it's fun to talk about all these great things that we do. Right. But I think it's also important to people understand that life goes on.

Yeah. And you have these challenges. And I think you being so open about it, about your family. situation with your daughter, I think is very admirable. So if you want to talk about that, I don't kind of know how to... No, no, no. I would just say this. First of all, when it's thrust upon you, like when my daughter was born, she was born in, in fact, I was shooting a godfather when it when we... And during, sorry, yeah, but during those times, there wasn't as much understanding of autism as there is now. No, not at all. She was born in 1980s, 1987. And it was

like, you would tell people and they'd say, I don't even know what that is. Yeah, it was like one and a couple thousand births were considered on the spectrum. But while we were, you were, in New York, she was about a little over two years old at the time. Then it started to become a parent. Something's off here, something a little different here. She was very traumatic birth too. Very traumatic. She was born at one pound, 13 ounces. I read that and it's like, you know, when you look and you go, is that a typo?

No. She was one of the smallest babies born in California that year, and they told us. And she's lucky she survived, because many of them don't. But she's tough. To this day, she's the healthiest kid in a person in our family. So when she was diagnosed, we were in the, New York and you're kind of like, oh God, now what? What do we do? You know, and then, then you have to make, it's not that you make a choice. But you're also having this big career moment. So it's a lot of,

a lot of emotions. I'm shooting, I'm shooting in the movie Alice at the same time. I shouldn't a Woody Allen picture and Godfather three back to back in New York. I was there for that whole year. I think my second daughter was born while we were there. My daughter G was born while we were in New York. So I got a new baby born. This daughter's been, this has now been diagnosed with autism. You know, wow, okay. So my plate's very full in this direction. and I got a little troubling things going on here. But so you know, you make that decision. So now what, now what do you do?

You do all the research, this, that. But what really changed things for me or helped was, now we finished in New York, we get back to LA, a few months pass, we're still doing all this research. What can we do? Okay, what therapies are out there? What are the organizations we should be part of? Like, now they're starting to do the press for Godfather 3.

They want to do the preliminary press. And it was either Time magazine, it was a big publication, either Time or People, they wanted to interview me because I was the villain now of the new movie. And, of course, they do their research. And even though it wasn't common knowledge, because there was no reason for it to be, they had found out that my daughter was on the spectrum.

Because somebody like Time Magazine, we'll find that out. They'll do enough research and talk to it. Somebody's nurse somewhere. Yeah. Somebody say something. So in the interview, it was on the phone. they said to me, no, we've come to our attention that you have a daughter with autism. Are you comfortable with talking about that?

And it hit me like, first of all, like, how did they know that? And then I thought, what's my response going to be? And instantly I thought to myself, if I say I don't want to talk about it, I'm negating her existence. That's the way I felt. Yeah. And I thought, I don't want to negate her existence. They're right. I do have a daughter who's been diagnosed with autism.

Do I want to talk about it? okay yeah all right I'll talk about it so we didn't talk about in depth but I just explained this is what happened you know you opened that door then that's it open the door yeah so I figured and I basically I remember telling my wife that I says you know what this probably is going to come out and it did they mentioned it but they're not in elaborate but they just said one with mr. gentleman's daughter found out while he was making the movie his daughter had autism and that that that that I got a letter sent to my agent later on after that thing came out from a woman who it was a beautiful letter

because one of the things I did say with describing my daughter's autism I said I said yeah I said it's it he says because they asked me is it difficult is it a difficult thing to go of course is the difficulties I said one of the most difficult things is you'd be in a grocery store with your child and she

at that time at that age at two and a half three years old she would if she'd see something like a face or something she'd get hysterical and start screaming and so I said so the hardest thing is to be in a grocery store and your daughter starts screaming and the other people are looking at you like you're a bad parent like and you want to just scream at them like hey she has autism i'm it's that i do it yeah yeah i said that's where it's difficult sometimes i said but you realize that's goes with so this woman writes me this

beautiful letter saying how how it so much she appreciated that me this actor who's been this huge movie has gone through this that she she was going through that same thing that's why i like talking about these things because it's not to normalize them, it's just part of life. Right. And from that moment on, once I read their letter from her, I thought to myself, well, that's it. I'm never going to hide Mia under a blanket and say, oh, yeah, well, let's not talk about it. And some people do, and that's their choice. Yeah. You know, they don't want to get into that. So what's Mia doing today? Is she working? She, she has done different things. For 16 years, you may know, my wife had a restaurant called Taste Chicago. We had a Chicago themed restaurant in Burbank.

I think I've even been there. Yeah. Back in my free vegan days. Sure. And my daughter, and my daughter, her, me, because she's savant in some areas. Like, in some areas, like, I mean... My brother's the same way. Some ways, they'll blow you away, and you think, like, it's almost rain-man-esque. Oh, yeah. She's like, she's like an encyclopedia. She could give you a date.

If I told her, if I called her right now and asked her what your birthday is, she would tell me exactly your birthday. And then if I pressed her, she'd tell me what day of the week you were born on. Yeah. You know, but she knows your birthday. Yeah. Only because she knows I was coming here today, so she knows. So things like that, you know.

So she's, yeah, it manifests itself in all kinds of, you know. Yeah, that's what's so, such a curious thing about autism. Is it, is it different for every person? Right. And there's no sort of known, this is the way that you make it, like, quote, unquote, better. It's more about how to manage and navigate. And it's a very intense sort of experience for a family. Right.

And we went through it in the 70s. Same type of thing. Nobody really know what it was or how to diagnose it. Right. Right. And now as much as much as to this point, I don't even know if he's ever been officially diagnosed, but now people would say on the spectrum. Yeah, on the spectrum. On the spectrum. And it manifests itself in many different ways. Some people are brilliant because they're able to capitalize on the beneficial aspects of it. Yeah. And some people aren't. Well, that's why I think so many artists are bipolar. I think their brain doesn't function properly. So they develop, once their brain overdevelops. Right. Right. You know, I mean, they have, in order to survive, they develop imagination or something. Right. So that's why they're so crazy, but they're good for us.

Yeah. So just to finish up, thank you again for being here. Yeah. Can we talk about this, the tequila? Because you said there was a good story there. Well, what it is is, you know, look, as I said, you throw a rock in here, it's going to land on a celebrity who's pushing a booze. You know, but this is Signor Rio Tequila. And what had happened is, there was a TV, did you remember a TV show called The Booze Traveler?

It was on the cooking channel or Tate or the travel channel. Anyways, Jack Maxwell did it. And he traveled around the world like, like, here we are in Portugal, where they make And, you know, it was an interesting show. Yeah. So, anyway, he got to know this woman named Debbie Medina, who owned this company with her husband called Signoreo. And her story was, she was, as a child, her father, who was a Mexican descent, left a family.

She never knew him from the time she was a baby. He was gone. And then when she turned like near 30 or something, she gets a phone call from the father in Mexico. I want to see you. And her attitude was, go, f yourself, where you've been on my life. Her fiancé at the time, husband said, let's go. I'll go with you. You can a chance to meet your birth father.

Cut down. They go down to Mexico. He's a simple man. Turns out they spend it, they get his side of the story, okay, but they're drinking tequila out of like a Coke bottle. And that's it. And that's it. And that's it's fantastic.

And finally in the morning, they're not drunk. They're not hung over. He's explaining, well, there's no additives. There's no preservatives. It's been in his family for three generations. Right, right. And so they decide her and the husband, they then got married. let's start a business.

And they did. For 15 years, they had this business. They were selling out a trunk in her cars and stuff and doing well. And then what ultimately happens, unfortunately, her husband dies suddenly, and he was starker. I mean, it was totally unexpected. So now this woman is running this tequila company all by herself. And she named it after her father, Rodriguez, so that's what called Senor Rio.

And she tells Jack, she runs into my friend Jack, who had the TV show saying, do you know of any celebrity that maybe would want in exchange for part of the company together we try to do. And what she does is she gives a dollar. This time she had a daughter who had grown up, had twins, and the twins are special needs. They have this, it's called Angel Syndrome or something like that. They're in wheelchairs, and they're, you know, fairly, you know, special needs. Sure.

So she's always given a dollar from every bottle she sells to this foundation for children. And of course, my thing with my daughter, I thought, well, hey, why, you know, hey, this is not my day job. Yeah. But I said, at least you're doing something. And I like a little sip of tequila every once in a while. I said, let's give it a shot. And so I've loved the connection with her. Last thing.

Yeah. Is it true you collect vintage guitars? I only have a few. Well, it's on the internet. It's your big collector. I'm not a big collector. I'm lucky that I have a good friend who was worked. I played a Fender guitar in the band for the most part.

Then I went over to, which one, Paul McCartney played the epiphone. I think it was epiphone. Anyway, but that was only like the last year of the band. But yeah, I was into Fender guitars, and then it turned out a Fender, the company Fender asked me to do a charity thing out in Palm Springs about 15 years ago because they knew I had been in a band. I said, really, I haven't picked up a band. and I said, I said, I sold my bass.

In fact, I sold my bass to Mitch Elliott who was in the rotary connection, you know, back in the days, with Minnie Ripperton. And they said, oh, no, we'll give you a guitar. Oh, you'll give me a bass? And I said, and I told him what kind of bass. Show me where to stand. You know, where do I stand? You know, so I did it. I went, they gave me a bass, they gave me a little amp,

one of those bull nose kind of amps. And that kind of started it. So then I built up my relationship with this guy, Dell, from Fender. And he gave me, I just had this vision of you with a, A vault of guitar. No, but I got one. They came out with, then Gibson.

Yeah. Then Gibson came out with like a, it's kind of, you probably know it. It's a guitar that's kind of an homage to the 60s. It's got all kinds of piece symbols on it. It's kind of a sweet. It's like a Les Paul type guitar. But it's got, and so they gave me one of those. So I got one of those.

I was just being a guitar nerd. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Secret staff that you needed to know. I was a mediocre bass player anyway. I mean, I was the lead singer. Pick or fingers. Fingers. Fingers on occasion.

You mean to pick... Back in the day. Back in the day. But I had one of those really big picks, though, too. You know what I mean? It's depending on how loud I wanted to be. Because, you know, you know, how musicians are. You know, it's like the snobs you've got to play with your fingers.

You know, back then, there went much snobbery going on in the 60s. I love it. Thank you, Jim. I want to see one last thing, though. Sure. This is only because my assistant wrote this book called Long Branch, which I think is brilliant. I'm happy to promote anything. It's called Long Branch.

We're trying to turn it into a series, which we hope to be able to do. I'm going to give this to you and plus the booze. I'll give this to my wife. She loves tequila. She would love that. And tell her if she could. I will report back to you. That's the Blanco.

If she likes to repisado or on Yeho, let me know. And the book is Long Branch. Doc is Long Branch. By Dan Rand. Dan Ram. He's been my assistance for 25 years and he's done a wonderful job with that. Does he treat you nice in the book? That's what we run.

Well, if we ultimately do the series, which we hope to do, I will play a character in it that is based on my dear, dear, former agent Jack Jolardi, who was legendary. Okay. He was like, he was everybody's agent back into the day, Frankie Avalon, Stallone. And he's an Italian guy from Chicago. He was like, the perfect agent for me.

It's a long story, but I recently got called Cheap by Frankie Avalon. We'll just leave it there. Oh, well. Well. That's our out. That's our out. God bless. God bless.