The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Richie Sambora | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

In this candid, in-depth conversation, Billy Corgan sits down with legendary guitarist, singer, and songwriter Richie Sambora. Together they dig into how success comes at different speeds, the real story behind life in Bon Jovi, and the balancing act that happens once the show is over and you head back home to family. They talk about cutting tracks in the old days, the headspace it takes to perform for 80,000 fans, and what truly matters when the stage lights go down. Richie’s honesty reveals a side of him few get to see—how fatherhood, heartbreak, and a raw passion for making music have guided his choices. No overblown rock myths here—just two musicians talking about their craft, the road they’ve traveled, and the personal challenges that shape them both on and offstage.Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

People experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands core changes, man. And you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing too good is a bad thing. Too good is a bad thing. It sounds like one of your songs. The Sambores.

The Sambores. They are debased. We would be pretty good together, I think. I think your flamenco playing would be better than mine, but I could fake it. A lot of A minor, right? We're talking songwriting school for folks. Let's jump in here. Young William Patrick Corrigan stays out all night at the then, the, what was it called back then?

Rosemont Horizon, right by O'Hare in Chicago, 1984, I think, was the year. Well, the crappy sound in room, wouldn't it? We'll get there. Yes, notorious... Great crowd. One of the best, right? Chicago, every time. So I stay out all night and I get my Scorpions tickets.

I'm 14th row. But I make sure I see the opening band because they have hit on Chicago radio called Runaway. And there you are. So that's the first time I saw you was I was 17 years old. Pretty cool, right? That's amazing. We were junked out dogs, man.

I think, you know, we were young, and they gave us 45 minutes to play. So it's like, head down. Yeah. And all you got. Yeah, no breathing necessary in the whole thing. It's like, yeah, 45 minutes plus, ooh, she's a little runaway to the Scorpions crowd.

No, we got a lot of swan. You know, I mean, she got to wear a batty home. The Scorpions crowd didn't like you. It was so fun. Because it would be like nickels and colors that's coming up. Is it because they had more of a hard rock crowd at that time? You think? I'm asking you, I mean, I was in the crowd.

I wasn't throwing anything at you. Listen, man, you know, I was 15 years old. White kid from the swamp, my first concert was a Black Sabbath, man, you know. I saw everybody. What year did you see Sabbath? 75. So that was Sabbath Bloody Sabbath? Yeah.

Great period for Sabbath. Yeah, but I liked them from day one. You know, I was a huge fan for everyone. You were O.G. You were O.G. Still I am. You know what? I was lucky enough to have this train.

I live literally on a dead end street next to a swamp. But I used to cut through the swamp, and I could get to the train tunnel in about a minute and a half. And it dropped me off in Penn Station underneath the garden. I saw everyone that was to ever see. Who comes to mind? Who comes to mind? Because I love that spirit of music.

Queen, Led Zeppelin, Eldon John, Paul McCartney, Wings, the Purple. So you had a very... David Bowie five times. So you had a very high standard of music. Right? Does it make sense what I'm saying? It's like, as a musician, you go, if I'm going to do this, I've got to be up and here. Because not everybody has a high standard.

I come from the indie world. And, you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing... Too Good is a Bad Thing. Too Good is a bad thing. That sounds like one of your songs. No, it was a different title. It's a hit. It's a hit. It's a hit, ladies you gentlemen.

So there I am. And, you know... How old are you? 17. 17. 17. Oh, you're done. I was playing guitar already. And you guys were a good band, you know.

But, I mean, there were a lot of good bands back then. Yeah. You almost kind of couldn't be a touring band at that point. and not be pretty solid. Everybody could play back then. Everybody was pretty good. Did you have a sense at that early date that you guys were on this kind of jet stream? Because, you know, you felt it?

Oh, without doubt. Tell me, because I always love this because you and I understand something that very few people understand. There's that feeling where you're like, wow, this is going to work. Big time, right? You feel it in your bones and you see it. Yeah, and here it comes. Right. Okay, so what were the things? As it's materialized, beyond the obvious, you know.

I really enjoyed it. You know why? Because before that, I worked like crazy. And I enjoyed it. I love it. I still do. You know? I was in the studio for the last five days, like 10, 12 hours a day. I love it. Right.

Completely. Always did. So it kind of made sense. sense to me. Let me tell you something, because you may not know this, or maybe you do. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians? My who? Your reputation. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians? You have a very strong rep with alternative musicians. You're very respected with the alternative community. That's fantastic. Because they see you as a musician's musician. Thank you. You see what I'm saying? Thank you. Where a lot of the rock guys, the alternative community kind of go, too obvious, too lame, too cheesy, they want it too bad.

You have a different rep in my world. Oh, that's beautiful. Because... I did not know. Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? I didn't know. You got a real rep because people understand where you're coming from.

Thank you. You'll hear people like, eh, bon jovi, but Richie. They don't mean John. They're saying, you know, the music that's not for them. Right. But they identify that you in that is something that they get it. I can say. I think it's cool, right?

I can sing. So even me is my... So good. Anytime. I really appreciate that. Thank you. And you know what I mean that. I do.

So tell me what were the things that you were seeing beyond the obvious that told you, like, wow, this is really going to take off. Well, our merchandise started doing like three times. The merch don't lie. The merch don't lie, baby. The merch tells the tale. Hey. It really, you know.

Besides that, I knew with Slippre was the first time that we were really a band, really. Okay. I mean, we spent years on the road, obviously, and years together and took vacations together. We were idiots. And we still didn't have good songs because we didn't have an identity yet. Okay. So, and I did not have a contract, and I still don't. I never changed it, probably when I had most interesting deals in the business, by the way.

But I just went, look, man, we make this a band. I got to, you know, move on because it's like... Was it in the beginning in your mind? Was it more of a construct or was it a band? Does it make sense? It was a try. Okay. I was in many bands.

Record companies would come see like three bands in a week, and I'd be in three of them, you know. Just change your name. I'd be like, no. I'd be like, you know, I'd be playing CDs and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, right, I get it, yeah.

Gildish leaves on Friday. You know, Ross Alpin, you know, Ross Elfin, the great rock guitar. He said he saw some flyer recently. Your, was the Ritchie Something band, you know, your richie and friends. But it was maybe your birth name, your last.

Oh, Richie the More and Friends, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah, that's basically I could, that's what I'd call my bands. But, I mean, back in the day. When I got to, when they got there, I say, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Cuban Yacht Club. It's Richie St.Imba and the Katie Perry Dancers. Yes.

I would change the name. Okay, but don't jump past my question. So what were the things that you were saying? Because you have a front row seat. What are you seeing in the crowd? What are you seeing? You said the merch don't lie, but what else? No.

It just, it was mania. It got to a point where it was, you know, People would just realize, then they got, well, thank God, they finally got a good song, for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? After all these years of, like, following them around. What changed, okay, so what changed in your mind that made suddenly you went from, we didn't have good songs to we had good songs? Well, MTV had a lot to do with the two. We cultivated MTV.

Sure. Certainly MTV's darling. Can I tell you an inside pumpkin's joke? You would look in, well. Can I tell you an inside pumpkins joke? Sure. You know, when you're making videos, right? and you've made many.

Too many. You have the meeting and what kind of video do you want to make? And so if they don't have a big budget, invariably somebody wants to do the on-the-road video. You know, like, there you are backstage.

Thank you. There you are backstage. There you are on stage pointing. How many times we've done that? Okay. In the pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video. There you go. There we are stretching before the gig.

But that was true. But that was an inside pumpkins joke. Oh, man. I don't know what happened to us. We were actually playing in Chicago. We're doing two nights of Social Field, right? Right. And so me and Bob are friends, right?

So he's great. Bob, Bob. You know, Kid Rock. Oh, okay. You say Bob, you know, the rest of us just know him is Kid Rock. I just happened to know him, you know, not that. That's like no big deal or anything. So anyway, I go, I think we do two nights if you open up, man, you know.

and it'll be good money for an hour. You'll be happy. Yeah. So is it. We'll sell out two nights, which we did. And he was great.

And we gave him a bunch more gigs because of that. And we'd rather do multiple nights. Well, where are you trying to get at? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand. I don't know. What was I trying to hear that? You were bragging. I don't know.

You were bragging. No, I wasn't bragging. I was just... I think what I was trying to get it was, how did you get from... You said we didn't have good songs, then we had good songs, and you said video, so I'm just trying to put those pieces together. Well, I knew we had the best record that we definitely ever made as a band

and the best sounding record with Bob Rock, who I still worked with religiously, and Bruce Ferbender unfortunately passed away. I said to myself, golly gee, I think we can make two million records out of this. Right. Well, why, I'm talking. Right. You know, and we'll work our asses off because we did.

Every bit of press. Back then, it wasn't obviously social media and stuff like that. It was more journalistic newspapers, everything. Whatever it took. And go on radio stations, obviously. Right. You know, doing that was a big deal. So the demand is there.

The interest is there. But you guys are meeting the demand. And as you're feeling the demand coming, you're like, we better get even better songs because it's... No, got beyond our control and security levels, different things like that. Like, things you never think of. You know what I mean?

People climbing through the sunlight. It's like crazy stuff. And you're just going about your daily job, basically, and doing it. Yeah, yeah. We said yes a lot to mostly everything and everywhere, but we did that beforehand, too, which ceded the garden for when we had a hit song. Sure. It was hit song in 24 countries.

So I had to look this up because they did not know. As an institution, the Bon Jovi franchise has sold 130 million records. And to quote the lyric, you have seen a million faces and you rock them all. I mean, that's pretty amazing. Thank you very much. It's pretty amazing. It's more than that. But imagine the piracy is insane.

Oh, yeah. No one wants to hear us complain about the money we lost. It's true. Yeah. So what makes that number even more impressed is if you sold 130 million records, that we know of. I was 17 in that year, so it was pretty big.

And we toured, you know, it's like when you take it that off and there was money. Oh, no, you guys back in the day, you toured like crazy people. What was a normal run for you guys when you were young?

Like, were you doing four in a row? No, but you were doing four in a row, you know, because like... No, we did five shows a week, and however they fit on a routing level to save that kind of money. You know, you guys are, those songs are high vocals. I mean, it's, you know.

So it does athletic event. Yes. It truly is. Yes. So you, you understand, and we understand it's like, you know, you probably would have played seven days in a row if you could, right? I mean. I could.

Yeah. Well, I'm, not that you don't sing, but as a lead singer of my band, I resent that coming a little bit. You know what? I take that back to the zone. And? Mm-hmm. because I've never done it for that long

and I've been the lead singer but I've obviously done my own tours for three, four months that clip and, you know, play where I want to play kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, I'd play seven days a week if I could. It's just the vocal thing is... It's the vocal. I never tried it, but I still take lessons.

Really? Of course. Like me, me, me, me, or... No, no. Yeah, all that. All that, yeah. Rigoletto, opera chain. Yeah.

I went to see Andrev Chalee one day. Actually, Denise was here with my assistant as a surprise, took me to see Andre, and I love him. And he wanted to meet me, and I go back there. And it's just like me and him. So as I walked in there, he said, please, come here, and he's blind. He's told him in you. Huge and skinny. Not built like a normal option.

Okay, yeah. And like we know each other forever. Okay. So he says, I'm just nervous tonight. I'm a little nervous tonight. Really? I got to hit nine high seas in the second song. It's an aria, right? He says, I'll show you.

Sit down at the piano and just goes bang, bangs him out. Like, clear as a bell. Wow. No problem. And I'm looking at him. I'm going to go, well, number one, you're not going to have a problem. Number two, how'd you do that? Yeah.

Because he had volume of control. That's a different level of chop. He goes, he should 30 years, you know. Yeah. Just to get, 20 years just to get an opportunity in that world. That's tough, tough. Yeah.

Yeah. I got trained by an opera singer once that was interesting. Well, you know, what it did for me was, I don't know, it didn't freeze too much except my longevity. Right. That's what I did learn from the opera teacher. I learned voice preservation. Basically, it's not going to the gym.

Yeah, yeah. It does work. Okay, bear with me here. I am. No, you're going to have to bear with me now. There's no bearing going on here. There's no bearing. Let's praise it.

My goal, as I was telling you a little bit before we started rolling us, you know, when I bring in somebody that I admire and respect, and you're certainly one of those people. see about it. But it's like there's 8,000 interviews with you telling variations of the same stories. And to me, what most journalists, if I'm a journalist at this point,

miss, is the real experience of being in a big band. Like, you know what I mean? They want to hear the night that the group be broken through the skylight, but they don't want to hear about the night you wrote on a bus for 16 hours and we're bored out of your mind and... Yeah, and who wants to hear that story, actually? You know, I mean, entertainment should be based as entertainment, not what's behind it. Sure, but we experience something different

than what most people understand our experience is. When you were on the road, we did one tour 20 months. You know what I mean? And you guys know you did those tours. Oh, 18 and a half months, you know. 52 countries. Hello, right?

I'm still okay there's a gentleman. It's unbelievable. No damage. No damage whatsoever. Actually, I've seen and play better than that. We'll say sitting looking at you. You look really good. I love it.

Handsome man. Handsome man. It's the jeans. But so, you know, we could sit here and tell, or you could tell war stories, and I can say, you know, when Desmond Child, you know, to me, it's interesting and it's important. But at the same time, I'm more interested in your experience of being in the band. Yes. And your navigates. Good for you.

Okay, thank you. I'm trying to come at it from a musician's point of view. So bear with me here. So I'm interested, because obviously there's a bit of controversy, as the English would say, with the documentary coming out. And I want to talk about it, but not probably how most people would want to talk about it. But I'm interested in your version of your story. And what I mean by that is, is your story a rags to riches to heartbreak and redemption? Is it you had it all and walked away from it all?

Is it local Polish kid makes good? And he's still richy from the neighbor. Are you the handsome gunslinger who marries a Hollywood star and has a beautiful kid? I was all of that. All of the above. I love it. Duly noted. But it's, you know, when I say it like that, it comes off like a Desmond Child song.

You know what I mean? It's got a little bit of a ring to it, but I don't. Well, what did you think I get some of those lyrics from? I remember some of those stories from. Very good. But my point of bringing this up this way, because I feel, I feel, like, first of all, you're a respected musician, but I think your real contribution musically is underappreciated. That's my perspective as a musician, too, musician.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thank you. But it's a genuine thing, you know, I'm not a compliment giver. So, but what I'm trying to get at is, you know, it's not like, what do you want to see on your tombstone? That's a little grim. It's like, what do you want people... Welcome, panelists. I'm But he had a great time. I spent it all. No, I lived. That's what it means.

He lived. It's just a metaphor. I get it. He lived. Obviously. Right. What I'm saying is, what's your version of that story? Because right now, you know, look, we've all been in big bands here, the two of us, you know what I mean?

And sometimes the story of the band becomes our story, but it's not our story. It gets a bit boring. And it's cliche. And you're not a cliche. No. Oh. Right. Like I said, look, I was out of the band at that point for 12 years. I was actually doing a songwriting clinic at, like, Abby Road with these young songwriters and stuff like that,

and they said, would you sit for a half hour? Yeah. Just a half an hour? Well, an hour. Yeah. I don't remember. And I said, I'll, all right, you guys get going on that and walked in those videos, they'll have a little makeup. And I didn't even know what the premise of this.

thing was, but I had a band for it seemed like a lifetime at that point. Yeah. Yeah. That's a long time. 13 years or something, you know. And so I was like, okay. So I was, you know, trying to be funny and the questions that were coming at me were unintelligent. Right.

And did not demand any depth of answer? Sure. I'm like, I haven't seen the doc, so. I said, cut. Oh. And I talked to the director, who I really like, Deepak Chopin's grandson. Okay. And he's talented.

And hopefully spiritual. You know, I didn't know what you guys are looking for. What are you looking for? Yeah. And things like that. Yeah, I get it. Like, what's the point? None of it really got in the documentary.

Okay. Right. But. Well, you ain't the one editing it. It was six and a half hour. Okay. It was, it's what, look,

so it's the band's 40s, it's the anniversary. We did some unbelievable things. Mention those, mention those things, show how, like, you're asking me, what that feeling was like? That's what I'm asking.

That's what's your version of that feeling, because that's what's interesting to me. 780,000, happy, happy, happy people. Rocking For three hours Yeah You know

I'm taking them to them Great songs Great playing They're coming back Yeah It's an event Yeah And you know

The band had it's up And the band had it's down And the band went back up That's pretty rare As you know Yeah I remember I don't remember

What the year was But somewhere in there Late 90s 2000 People were basically Thought you guys were done Oh yeah Like you know Like you become the oldies act thing

Yeah But that's just in this country. No, I get that. But you know how America is? We don't think about other countries. You could be the biggest band in Greece, and America wouldn't give two shits. You know what that feels like, because I know what that feels like.

I know what that feels like. I know. I'm still not saying I was in 52 countries. Okay, so say tragedy strikes and 20 go down. You're still good. Yeah, right. Who does that? Yeah.

That's where I was at. Right. But you know. But being there was a, But you know, this business of music runs basically out of this city, L.A. But if they believe it, they believe, and if they don't believe it, it don't matter that you sold out in Pukypsey. They don't give two shits.

They don't know. They don't understand that. That's what I'm saying. So what I'm trying to understand is in the meta-narrative, which is a bit of a modern way of putting it, you know, what's your arc in this thing, not even related to the Bon Jovi years. Like, what's your art in the scene? Like, what's your version of your story? Just that I understand. Oh, for sure.

Yeah. But you pick one. Just pick one. Gratitude beyond. Whatever I had to deal with, what I received is way beyond the love and the warmth. So your relationship with the fans and what the fans gave you is very high. Very high. Right.

Okay. Yeah. And also, I, started to, like, I understood the business. Yeah. You know, I became a record company before. A couple of times. Yeah. I had three record deals before I met John. Right. So I had, and one of my best friends was going to law school. Right. And he owned a studio that I used to work at. Yeah. Studio musician. And then he went law school. And I joined the circus.

I was in college. And after two years, I split a psychology major. And my daughter just got her master's in psychology. I saw that, congratulations. That's a big deal. What's her discipline in psychology? Does she have one? You know, because some people are union and... She is...

Some people do with trauma survivors. She's still in transition. Oh, she's in that. Because she's going to be going for a doctorate. That's amazing. Congratulations. But she told me she was going to take a break. One of those kids that works the summers.

Okay. You know, you don't have to do it during, but I really admire what you do. Yeah. Because she was keeping up with some very smart people, obviously. But also, and I think you understand this context. Not every kid who grows up in L.A. with rock star dad and, you know, Hollywood star mom goes on and do something with your lives. So you must be triple proud.

Yeah, and I'm triple thankful, you know, more for anything because it just was myself. and I'm a good dad I pride myself on being a very good dad I mean you love somebody you love them all the way it's obvious in poking around in your life in prep for this

how much you love your daughter oh yeah no we got it's humbling because I have a young daughter six years old just turned six oh yeah but you're good it's going to blossom yeah what do they say daddy's and their daughters right yeah

just we just spend a lot of time with each other And then when we got divorced, season nine. And I went to a child psychologist and went, what are the things I can say and I can't say? And those kind of things, you know. And I went, but this is going to be great because I have an undelighted attention

instead of having to split it with anger and things like that that were existing in the marriage, right? So it became a different happy life. That's interesting. You know, and I bought a smaller house for us. It was only a mile away from her mom. Right. So it was like not like I was...

Yeah, you weren't... Obscunding. Yeah, get it. Yeah. So that... And I just really talked to her. And the rubber man that I had with it, it was more like...

Because I watched it. What would you feel like if you... that was being done to you. Yeah. She was just kind of acting out. Sure, that's kids, yeah. Yeah, I understand that, but I go, because when I'm gone, you're gonna have to do this yourself.

And eventually what would happen would be that, sometimes it take a day, sometimes take a week, sometimes it take a little more. But she'd go apologize and work it out with her friend. So I was, essentially, because of all the time, I spent on the road, you know, teaching her self-parent as much as possible. Yeah. Without, but you can't do it.

Yeah, yeah, that's not going to work. They have to learn self-reliance. You got to kind of... Yeah, I'm in this. My kids are young, they're eight. Yeah, eight and six, and I'm in that... I'm trying to get them to understand, like, you're going to have to figure some of this out on your own.

I can't be here all the time. For everything. Like, nine to five dad. I'm not a nine to five dad, you know? It can be... It's just for it. Plus, you need that time for yourself. to enrich yourself

oh yeah and not go crazy I was listening to your I think it's your recent single Believe in Miracles I got two more one that just cut Of course you do

But I'm Oh that one Or I'm believe in miracles please Yeah and that's I like this lyric in this song I really like the song a lot too Oh thank you Sing a song for our future days

A song for the days we sung alone A song for the laughter of tomorrow me sing a song of hope we got to believe in miracles when you dream too much and too high i thought it's really i felt that lyric it seems like that sometimes doesn't it well i'm not trying to put thoughts in your brain so this is why i'm asking you but it seems like you know when you experience you know you're playing 80 000 people in russia or wherever you were playing you know i mean there's an adrenaline and it's like what mountain

Yeah, right. Okay. That's true. Okay. Well, at some point, and I'm not even talking about you leave that situation behind. I'm talking about at some point, you're going to be alone on a Sunday. You look in the mirror and you've got to like, you've got to find something to hold on to. Because once you've achieved those highs and you've felt that dopamine rush, it's not, you're not going to find it in normal life. You're not going down to grab a coffee. No, it's not at all.

not that, but I have found that, you know, because I left the band, obviously. Yeah. You left the band? No one told me. Nobody heard that? Did you hear about that? I saw, I heard about a documentary. 13 hours.

I think about four hours into the Bon Jovi documentary. They mentioned that you left the band. It's unbelievable. But here another. Once again, that it's all perspectives. God bless. It said, Marcus really said that. It's, you know, it's not a thought.

It's a perspective. Interesting. Which is the difference between that. So, I have a different perspective. What keeps you, because this is what I read in Lyric, what keeps you, is it God, is it family, is it music, all of the above? Like, what keeps you, when you really need to refocus? Oh, obviously. It's a lot to do with my daughter.

Right. It has a lot to do with my love and passion for music because I'm self-taught. Yeah. I read a lot. I like to read. I just got my cataracts done, and then it's fantastic. I could read better again.

I still need readers. But I see stuff that I never have been seen in my life. I grew up in a swamp in New Jersey. Yeah. pollution, you know. Yeah. So that was, I mean, things like that are happening. It's just, and this far as business goes, you know, I, I saved my money.

I did the right thing with it. And I don't have to do it for the money. Yeah. And that was a main thing. It's like, where did I start? Why did I get into this in the first place? Joy. Then you have to do all this stuff and come full circle.

and you're not quite back to joy yet. And that's what you shoot for. Yeah. I read this interesting. To be that free as an artist and not care about these trappings. I read this interesting piece once by David Mamet, the great playwright. Yeah. And he said, you know, in the beginning when you're an artist, you're free.

You have complete freedom. And you beg for an opportunity. And invariably somebody says, hey, sign this. and you sign away something. And then you spend the next... You don't know what is at the time. Well, you don't realize how valuable it is. Exactly.

And they wouldn't have you signing it. And then you spend 30, 40 years of your life trying to get back to that freedom. So it reminds me it's the same thing, right? You came in because you love music. And to me, you know, you strike me like myself, like we're lifers. Oh.

It's just like... We're going to go to... We're going to be around with our sailboat somewhere? Yeah, there's no... I don't even have a sailboat. I don't know about you. We're not going to... David Crosby yet, but maybe we'll get there.

Me and you're like, with the Sambora is on the yacht. Sailing, we'll go down and visit Sammy and Cabo. With fabulous women in bikinis. Well, that's not a pumpkin song, that's a Bon Jovi song. Oh, you can dress them any way you want them. Well, in our songs, they're dressed in got, you know, flowing, flowing gongs. I like that, too. I do.

What do they say? whatever floats your boat. You know what? With music, there was so much good music that was, you know, coming out when I was coming of age. Late 60s.

I was absorbing. You're just, you know, we're close in age. You're just, you're like my older brother. But my point is, is... Which is lovely. But so I was born in 67, you would have been born 60... I was born 59.

Okay. So, they are. You grew up musically. I mean, come on. I hit it. It was looking Hendricks and Dylan. Ridiculous. Beatles.

And in New York. And in New York. And everybody. Well, everybody comes to New York. Aerclop. Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Hendricks. It's like everybody, everybody works in New York. That's what I'm saying.

When I said that I had that tunnel, my mother used to let me go to New York City. Yeah. Because I never left the building. I get you. That's the reason she letting me go. No. And I would go to, I'd stand there in line to get Gabriel tickets and stand there in line to get Zeppelin tickets and then go back and it was like, I'm tired. Did you ever get tired of meeting your heroes or does it still hit you? Of course. Every time.

Who's somebody that you would meet and geek out for? Oh, anytime I'm with Jimmy Page, I geek out. Anytime I'm with Paul McCartney, I geek out. Yeah. Bob Dylan. Hello. I'm geeking pretty heavy with him. You know. Yeah.

The Who? Pete. Pete and Roger. Yeah. Those guys. What? And Pete's so smart. It's like you feel like you're going to science class.

It's cool, right? It's one of the great indulgences of our job. Yep. To be for, the Rolling Stones. Yeah. I was working with Don was on my second solo, on Discovery Soul. And we're just going to hair late because I was taking on, I played on a movie.

I was playing on all these different records as I was doing that. Yeah. And the Stone started their record. So I had the opportunity to kind of like... Hang around. He said... A corner of a dark corner of the control. I heard they're kind of finicky about that.

Well, they just don't mind any people. They got enough. Well, yeah. would imagine. I can imagine. So anyway. So you're hiding in the corner. So, yeah. Then anyone spot you?

Then Don said, hey, you know, because they didn't think much of a bunch of them. It just wasn't a cup of tea. Yeah. That don't bother me. I still love them. I don't care of what anybody says. I still listen to all their records. Yeah. Constantly. They were so well produced. Amazing. So well-arranged.

It was a great Jimmy, Jimmy Miller. Jimmy Miller. Yeah. You know, like, And Andrew Lugaldhom was kind of a visionary, maybe not the guest producer, but, you know, a very interesting kind of vibe. Their records continue to astound me to this day. Glenn John, Sydney, produced, yeah, you also produced two stuff. Great, great talent.

Amazing talent. Yeah. But the songs, Jesus. Oh, come on. It's not fair. God. It's not fair. It's not even fair after a while.

Yeah. And, of course, you've heard the stories how they would just party for days and just damn and they weigh about a buck 25 a piece yeah yeah just kind of songs would emerge out of the morass of this i want to say every time it was one of those bands that i saw every time right had to yeah was that was that okay go back to your story because this is a good story so don was so yeah they were recording costa hall so then don said hey want you listen to some of the stuff because i had like I've got like Billy Preston and the cats. Yeah, yeah.

You know, like, but it sounds like a band. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. I give a good band. Okay. I always have. That's not sexual, but...

So, so then I was allowed to come in and hang out while they were cutting. That's cool. Which was so beautiful to watch. Is this... Is Bill Wyman still in the... band at this point? No, no. Daryl's what?

Daryl. Who played on my record? I know Daryl from Chicago. Daryl's lovely. Lovel, he could play with Miles. He's in a break. He's okay. He's okay.

Yeah, he's just right. He's just a beautiful cat, too. But I'm watching, and it was fun to watch them how they started up. Yeah. Keith was really good, just getting, he, they all had understudies. Right. Very interesting. I'm sorry if I'm giving you.

your cigarettes away. But you know, Charlie was alive. You had Kelman. Right. Right. You know? And Keith said Keith had Wadi and everybody else didn't have anybody. Okay. Kind of thing. They'd get a riff and groove going and tape is, they're doing it. At least run tape all the way. I'm looking at Don. I'm just seeing piles of, yeah, you're going to have to go through that stuff. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. And we're really good friends at this point. You know, so then it's me and Don Keith would be listening in mixes. I'm sitting there. This is surreal.

Keith's, you know, if Brian didn't jump, I would have pushed him. So we're about Brian Jones. I went, oh, cold. Oh, yeah. Brian was great, I thought. I mean, he did a lot type band. Yeah. You know, I mean, everybody, there's so much music, though.

God bless him. Go Mick. Unbelievable. I have heroes. They're all my heroes. They're still my heroes. He makes a hero in many regards. Right?

We all should be so lucky as we age. And his business document has taught me that it's cool to know the business. Oh, yeah. Nothing wrong with know what you're signing away or signing. What you're getting.

I don't want to, you know, let's go back to the beginning, but I get the sense that you're... You can, Billy. Well, okay, but I read some stuff, so, you know, it's... Who knows what you read, but it was talking about the loss of your father, Adam, and your mother... Is your mother Joan still alive? Yes. God bless. How old are you on?

I've stayed with it for five weeks. She's 88. Amazing. First thing I did, I'm very proud of this. I'm not bragging. First thing I did when I made my mom. money. Like my good boy would. I got my father out of the swamp. Yeah. God bless.

And it must have been a proud day in your life. For me. Yeah. The house that I, my partner used to let me stay at and I told him I was going to buy it from them. I got some Dosh. Yeah. And I bought it up cash, knocked it down, rebuilt it from my parents and designed it. A boat, a couple of Jets Cues, Cadillac at Lincoln. I sold their house, put that money in the bank for them, I went, you're done, I retired you. I'm going back to work. Wow.

Proud day. Proud day. First thing I ever day with money. I tried that with my... You know what else it does? Shut some up. Well, I tried that with my mother, and she told me no. She didn't take it from you.

My mother tried to know. you know what my mother's shirt does not take it from me too and my dad was like my dad was working two jobs man for like 18 years I'm ready I'm ready so where's your mom living

one pleasant New Jersey she still wants to be up northeast you know what she likes the weather I thought you're gonna say Florida you know it's just this place it's on a river it's just peaceful

I get you and when I was like 19 I had a partner and he had a partner and he had owned 13 houses you could own in the 70s and write them all. America was doing that for you. Yeah, yeah.

And so it was this beautiful house on the river. That beautiful or big, very, I could take care of it myself. Sure. You know, but I had freedom to play at night. My house was this big. My grandparents lived upstairs. We lived here, a kitchen. the living room and one bathroom. Thank God a basement. So you're down there with the

black play. I was down there playing with my bands and my mother, my mother and father let me do that. That was cool. They loved music. They were ballroom dancers. They weren't at one point. Yeah. That's how they met, dancing. So music was always... I love it. Yeah. I'm not trying to be morbid but it's it's it's it's it's it's a personal question and you can jump around it if you want but i i looked at the dates of uh when your father passed and i looked at the data when you left jovi and it was about five years right and the reason i bring it up is my mother passed away in 96 and five years almost like five years to the date i just lost it i had this like weird delayed reaction did that happened to you? Yes. It's almost like

a bomb went off in my head. I thought it was... A couple of times. Puddles. I thought it was like cool. You know what I mean? Like you're good? I thought that it was releasing. Yeah. It was releasing tremendous grief. Yeah. Did you have a delayed reaction to grief? Yes. Isn't that an interesting phenomenon? I explained that to my daughter.

I said sometimes you'll wake up and everything's going great and then you all have a thought. And then boom. And puddles. Yeah. And it's okay. Yeah. It's better. Your father had cancer?

Is it? Yeah. It was a greaser from the 50s. I didn't know any better. Yeah, yeah. And he's smoking the worst. Like, luck, he's no filters. My mother, same thing.

Three backs. My mother's same thing. Kind of Candy, Jolans, that did. And luckily, I was in an investment with the head of M.D. Anderson, which is the largest cancer center in America. I had invested with him in a few different things. He was in the group I was in. and her and her you can't get in there for like six months right and i happen to be with

denise richard at the time and her mother had lung cancer too for smoking almost similar ages and i go just get on a plane and meet me and yustin and i called on a friday and we were in on that monday right because her friends yeah and business partners. Yeah. A few different things. So. Works.

In this... Because, again, I don't care. Yeah, but it does come back. I actually wrote a song, seven years gone. Okay. About that. And I brought you that album, actually. Thank you.

I did. Because the reason I thought of it is, it's like, you know, people always go to the lowest hanging fruit of any situation. Like, oh, you know. You left your band, why, what happened and this? And they often miss is that there's, like a river, there's underlying things going on. Life goes on.

Yes. Like, we're getting older. The same life. We're getting older. We got kids. There's other things going on. I wrote the Zion song the other day. And it said the poorest and the richest still needed an ambulance.

Yeah, right. It doesn't, you know, just because you're a rock and roll star or you're a successful musician, you're going to have the same problems that everybody else has. So in this, if you follow my thought on this, if there's this delayed grief, did you have that moment where you're like,

not what am I doing with my life, but a lot of my life is flying by here. My father's gone. My mom ain't getting any younger, you know. Was there a kind of a cumulative effect for you, like well I need to kind of does it make sense the way I'm putting that well yeah but no the definitive cumulative effect literally was I was having a mental health issue with my axe right and that was and I was leaving my young daughter who was very bright and beautiful she would have been around what age

Just exactly what the child psychologist told me about nine. Okay. They're going to start realizing things. Okay. So you're at this point of like... Well, now, explain, Lucy, you know, that point. Yeah. And I'm like, I actually enjoyed therapy.

I was just like major. And I went to a child therapist. I said, I'm just brushing you. I'm just brushing up, but what can and what can I? What would be the proper thing to do for this goal? Yeah. Here's where my focus is. Yes.

And she basically said, you can't say nothing. That's going to be hard for you. No, it's true. You can say about the time you spend, but not, your mom, can't say anything about that. They have to realize these things for themselves. And I said, oh, okay. You know, it was that kind of thing.

And I have a great rapport with her. I mean, we're even closer to ever. I don't know how that can happen, but we're just ourselves. You know, it's okay. Yeah. Like, there's a bunch of stuff over here that was taken care of for you out of love, you know. So if I'm oversimplifying, you're still in process of grief over your father, you're dealing with issues at home, you're in a band at that point for X number of years.

you've toured your brains out. You know, you've had all the success that anybody could have. Like, at least put me emotionally at the crossroads you were at. Oh, I felt like John was changing his focus and he often wanted to,

you know, be a solo artist. And I go, you make a solo. I made five, I think, you know, and toured. Yeah. And enjoy it, you know, immensely. Was it that he was trying to turn the band

and when it was solo band, Is that makes any sense? Yeah, it seemed like he was, well, he was definitely changing directions. I came off the road with the aftermath of the lowdown record that I did, which was an independent release. Right, and I brought you one. Thank you. Just because I was listening to some of it today.

Just a little thank you. Yeah, yeah. And it was out tuned. I had great musicians. And he said, all of a sudden, no, you don't got to worry about it. John Shanks and I wrote like 30 songs. And I went,

Hello. Oh, that hurt a little bit. That hurt me. It hurt. Hello. Now, here's the process of like 31 years of it going, not just well. Like, you can't even think about well. You did okay.

The well meter is well beyond the meter. You're in the red. You know what I mean? And I got nothing with gratitude for the opportunity. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And that just, it shook me a little bit.

but I said, I said, what do you got? And it didn't sound like Bon Jovi. It sounded. What did it sound like to you like? I don't know. It sounded like every song that I didn't want to write or something. Yeah. It just, it was.

I hope you take this as a compliment, because I really mean it as a compliment. If you sat me in a room and you said, uh, here's all the Bon Jovi songs. Pick the ones you like. and you be okay with on a desert island and discard the ones that you just don't have any connection to. So I know those songs because I've heard them and, you know, even I've found deep cuts that I like and stuff like that.

And it's one of those things where I've grown to appreciate the band even more as I've gotten older. Maybe at the time, the hair-metall-y kind of times, you know, the grunge thing, we were all kind of like, it felt so oppressive to us, you know what I mean? Yeah, they have to be categorized. It was in our, right, but it, you know, for us in that generation, it was in our face with MTV. Oh, yeah. Every time we turned around, you guys had really big hair and you looked really cool and you had hot girls, you know, and we were like, you know, in clubs.

So I'm saying it was working. Right, but you understand the joke I'm making, which is like... Of course. It's a generational thing to just reject whatever is there. It's not even personal. Absolutely. Like, I liked a lot of your songs, but it was like, get out of the way. Yeah, no, but it wasn't cool, too.

Sure, but I'm saying now that I'm older and I look back, There's a lot of stuff there that I really like. I mean, genuinely, I think this is great. Well, thank you. Okay, so when I was listening to a lot of your solo work in preparing for today's interview, it was like, I had this feeling, I'm getting chills, and I hope you take it as a compliment.

I was like, this is the Bon Jovi that I like. Where is this Bon Jovi? And then it's like, it's Richie. Thank you. That I like in this mix. The magic is rich. in the mix. And the musician in me goes,

it's that the way you synergize blues, pop, other influences. Look at you. God, you did the same thing. My God, you infiltrated so many different genres, and that's what I'd love. I'm a thief in the night. That's what I'd love about your records.

Thank you. I couldn't wait to see what you were going to... How it was going to destroy my career next. What really you were going to pull, artistically. Thank you. No, and I mean that. I appreciate that.

You would change your voice. Yeah. And when you sing like a ring rate, you have to figure some stuff out. Sheila, Daphne. Thank you, thank you. All those records were phenomenal. We've entered the final stretch of our psychological dissertation here. Okay.

I want to talk real quick because I was sort of fascinated. And it was hard to find some information. I saw something about, so the band was called Message, right? Yes. 1982. I saw somewhere where it said you were signed a swan song, and then I saw somewhere where it was like a failed... So give me the story in that real quick.

Well, I got signed a song on like 19 and a half. You must have been freaking out. I'm trying to let Zeppelin, man. What are you kidding me? I go, did you get to meet them? No, not then. Okay. Not then.

But was there a contact? Yeah. I was in the studio, Mitch Fox, Sam Mazer. Okay. And Stephen Weirson. The lawyer. Okay. And you're in what studio at this point? Lots of different ones. I was in Power Station.

Okay. I was in who was someone on 57th? Do you with church media. Okay. Okay. So put me in the room with message because there's not a lot of information about it. Well, it started out. It was a bunch of guys that had a band in New York and they were looking for

guitar player and I got in. And the name of the band was a scream and Mimi's for a while. Okay. It was a punky kind of New York. York who's its musically finest. Yeah, yeah. I believe.

Okay. I was playing Gildeslissus a couple nights a week, you know, and just all around town. And that name wasn't working. we had the label interest in Zeppelin. And that was everything. And they were serious. And they put up the money. So did it ever come? I know it came out later. But again, that's... No, you know what? The information is really messy on the line. That never came out yet. Okay. But I am planning on recording a song from that era. Why didn't it work?

I'm just curious. Because the reason, the real story is... The label blew up. Okay. You know, Jimmy and Robert and that... Okay. Yeah. And they were running the label.

And bad company was on the label. Right. They were my label mains. There were a couple other bands that were on the label that were kind of... Frank Corillo. That's it. There's a name that... How do I remember that?

I don't know. They were there. And he was very good, but there was like, you know, to try to get Peter Grant's attention was... Hello. People would wait a month. Yeah. Downstairs at his house.

Really? What? I'm not kidding. Like, employees. All right. Final stretch. It's not as cheesy as, hey, look at the camera and tell Bon Chauvey fans what you want them.

No, but I feel like there's like, let's call it the cheesy version of like, you know, I still love you and like what don't they understand, maybe this question, what don't they understand about this story? Like what's the missing? I like the first part of that question, because I don't like to accuse anybody of not understanding because everybody has their own perspective. Sure. On understanding, right?

But all I would say, sincerity, beyond the image, beyond what you might think, beyond what you even might have heard or read, I'm a sincere musician and sincere artist, and I will try my artist, tell I'm dead. Like Billy said, that's it, but it's really sincere. I love it. That's the you I know.

I don't know you well, but that's the you I know. You're a straight shooter. You know me well. Okay. And we have mutual friends, and they speak very, Very highly of you. And vice versa. Thank you.

And rightfully so. Right. On your end. That's the part, I guess, but that's the part that sort of annoys me. Because I see the clickbait stuff and, you know, I see where people like, you know, well, the phone didn't ring. And it's like, it's a lot more complicated. And then on another level, it's a lot more simple than that. You got it?

You got it? You know? Yeah. And if you, like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like. like I was born with it, it was a language I understood immediately. It didn't take me long and teach myself how to do any instrument and pick it up very quickly. Yeah, I mean, you can.

I had to go backwards and take theory to put it the other way. I really had muscle memory and ear. Yeah. Then notation, to go back and learn that was I'd learned backwards basically. Right. But going out and playing live, you know, and getting paid for it so i going to the gym lovely okay last thing when when you reach that point in the band where you're like i got to get the hell out of here i have that about once a week so i'm with you

you know what i mean where are you looking you like shut up already i've had it with you right uh no it's not fair to go back in time but what happens in critical moments in our life and our associations with our bandmates, you know, because like, and you know this feeling, no matter what we do in life, always be a pumpkin and you'll always be in that band. Absolutely. It's weird because in the fans' mind, you're in the band, even if you're not in the band. It pisses you off somehow because it's hard to get around the image. Sure, but it's also on some level.

It's a testament to what you've done, right? Okay, but I think both of us, at least me and my solo career and you, and, you, and, your whole life, had covered so many genres and covered them well, that you'd be able to go and find a genre in your maturity as an artist where an amalgamation of a couple of those categories or just one or two would be at your access to paint sound. Sure. I feel that way about myself.

I feel like I'm like... Well, you're just as capable as ever. You haven't lost a step as a musician. No, I still like a whole other thing. Like, the guys that stayed in the band, God bless them. Yeah. And they were in that groove. I was in no group.

I was in... I was teaching myself and getting into jazz more. Sure. Different areas of music, and it was very enriching. But the last thing I'm after is, you know, I'm not saying as dramatically as the last. day before you step through a door and you're like, okay, I'm done. But I'm saying is there are moments in those situations and I've certainly experienced

them where you don't feel you're getting the support you need. You feel like you're saying, does anybody here see what I'm going through? I'm your brother. All the time. Can you relate to where I'm at? Yes. And it becomes about either dollars and cents or ticket sales or cancellations and you're like, hello.

My name's Richie and I just, you know, I want to be loved. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. Okay. I feel that way. And what I've gained to experience out of many, many years in this business, as you know, is that people experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives.

So the element of bands core changes, man. Yeah. And it's like, you know. It magnifies and then at some point it can. Yeah. Right? It does. You know, the straight-on.

focus of when you're young and you don't have any other things to bother you or annoyances or things to tend to. Ferraris. Or not even, just the responsibilities. That was a joke. Yeah, but I do have Ferrari, but what are you doing? Sorry. Sorry about that. It's 20 years old.

You want to buy it? It's for sale. Richie's Carla. No, no. I'm only again. But that's true. I think that we as artists at our age and being very, very, very, very, you're not. sincere at every

every second. It's not even the music is the way I spend it, but people should have gratitude for every second and really understand the weight of it. So if you'd gotten some of the support you needed then, would it have turned out different or you had

to go at that moment because it was just that was the time? The turning point was obviously my daughter. I mean, the daughter looks at you and goes, Daddy, I need you. That's it. And I go, you know what? I need. need you too. In other words, it's like... Did you try to explain that to the guys?

Yeah, and plus they should have saw it. And so... You know what? We're all friends. Everything is... There's not like good... There might be some animosity towards me in some directions, but I fought for that man to put that band together, and then I really wanted us to be a band

and help little guys get involved with even the financial and this end of it, which is boring stuff. to be talking about. But it's, it does matter behind the scenes. It matters because there is a glue and a caring. Yeah, you're ultimately a family

whether you want to be or not. Yeah. And it includes the crew and... Absolutely. The guy selling T-shirts. He becomes part of your outer world. Yes. Yes. It's, it's, it's, I chose to actually be involved in it. Last question. Last question.

And I'm not looking for dirt. I'm looking for an opinion. because... They're looking for dirt. No, I'm not. I'm really not... He's looking for dirt. I'm not that interesting. No, because I think...

You know what? I love this interview, by the way. Thank you. And I want to thank you for asking me because you're a great interviewer. And now I've got to ask the jerk question. You could jerk me off if you want. I don't care.

You're a very handsome man. Stop already. All right, I'll put my intelligent glass. If there's a... In my mind, there's like a dial sometimes with the decisions we make, right? So if a band is 70% music and 30% business or 60, 40, you know what I mean? At some point, did that dial get to become too much about business and not enough about music?

Does that make sense? Yes, but not to me. It wasn't that. No, but I'm saying with the people you were in business with, did you feel that they got too much about business and less about music? Because you was a musician person? No, I didn't feel that way. Okay, so you were good with that. I was good with that.

Okay. I was more, it was, it was getting stale. It was 30, almost 32 years. Yeah. And there was some feelings that needed to be communicated. Sure. That were not, I think, as men. But that's not atypical, you know.

No, it's not. Especially with guys. Yeah, from New Jersey. Give me a break. Yeah. So, you know, I don't want to bring my problems to work. Sure. They were everywhere anyway.

Yeah. No, I didn't even have a publicist, and I was just everywhere, no matter what I did. It was just one of those things. Yeah. And you were clickbait before clickbait. I was. Isn't that sexy? But I have a girl now.

I have a woman that I've had now over two years, and we have a wonderful relationship. And to fall in love at 63 with the wisdom. Okay. And she's also smart. And she's also healthy and beautiful and 60. And it's a different way. It invigorates you very much. It's a different way to fall in love.

Yeah. It's like, you know, people that wish they say, well, I wish I knew that that one. I was in the high school back then. Guess what? Guess what? Guess what? I do know that. Yeah.

I wish I knew now what I knew. Ronnie Lane, I think, wrote that line. Yes. Beautiful. I wish, yeah. So that kind of happened to me, and it was crazy because I was out by singing teacher's house, and I was getting ready to do a show,

which was a ridiculous show, but a lot of fun to do, called The Masked Singer. Okay. In England. Yeah. Hard. So it's costume, very wild. It's wild.

You did that? I didn't see that. Yeah. And I almost, you can't really win. It's like, who's fooling of. Yeah, yeah. But I got a chance to just go out and sing. Okay.

Right? And whenever I took that damn mask off, people were going to be surprised. Yeah. You know, so I was doing it for a little bit of an ulterior motive. Sure. But there were three networks that wanted me in England to be a judge on this, that kind of thing. And I go, that's the hardest one, though, but I think you'll have the most value in the end.

You know, and I didn't pick the songs, and they don't want, it's a really wild operation. Would they have you sing? I said I opened the show as the first artist, and it's the biggest show on TV there in England, with Elvis, Vives, Las Vegas. That ain't an easy son to sing. I got to admit, I don't want to say anything.

You killed? I killed it. Then I did, Hallelujah, Hallelujah after that. Okay. And I nailed it. And that was good. And then they wanted me to do

something by a woman. And I said, name it, whatever he's like. So I had back in black and sweet dreams by Annie. She's a me. That's a METO, and that's a perfect for me. I have to change the key for Amy.

And as a group, I did a version of if I could turn back time. Oh, my God. I think that's where we end right there. I can't top. No, no. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you.

God bless you, Billy. As well, welcome.