The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Rudy Sarzo, Pt 2 | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

In this emotional continuation, Rudy Sarzo opens up to BillyCorgan about the heartbreaking moment he lost his bandmate and friend Randy Rhoads in a tragic plane crash, and why Ozzy had to keep moving to survive. They revisit the origins of Metal Health, Quiet Riot’s groundbreaking album that became the first debut heavy metal record to hit #1, tracing its roots to Rhoads’ influence, Slade covers, and LA’s Sunset Strip and how success, MTV pressure, and bad deals fractured Quiet Riot. Sarzo also reflects on the Ozzy/Sabbath farewell that brought everything full circle.  Subscribe to the Magnificent Others YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO?sub_confirmation=1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

So I shut the curtains and go back to sleep. And I wake up to, boom! And I go, I'm startled, you know, the bus was shaking. And I opened my curtain. And now, at that moment, I was not ready to accept the possibility of the reality. Sure. You just lost your buddy. Somebody loved him was close to.

How did he's just. Do you process that? Because that's not... I began a robot on stage. To come from where you've come from, to actually reach the world stage and play with such great musicians and be involved with such great music,

it's such a miracle. Metal health took about 10 years to write. You know, it's the first album. You got all these songs that you'll be working on for the last 10 years, you know? And the next record took, like, what? You got six weeks to make this record? and MTV just ate it up.

So it was them against us. See, there was the competition. Did you guys lose? Yeah. But that's music, you see. That's the beauty. Part two. Not everyone gets a part two.

Wow. I think you and Paul Stanley. You, Paul Stanley, and Daryl Hall. You know, I got so many wonderful people to talk about because it's not about me. I've just... No, it is about you. I'm like Forrest Gump.

I just happen to be there. And I got a lot of great people, history, I mean, stories to tell a... Rudy from Cuba. We have a lot to talk about. Okay. I hate to start on a sad note. But after Randy passes, Hasi Azi Azei obviously has to stop for a time. How long was that stopped?

No more than 10 days. Wow. Oh, yeah. Was there internal discussion? Like, because I was in a similar situation once, also tragic, not making light of it, but what's the internal deliberation? Do we keep going? How do we?

It was a combination of a few factors. Right before Randy passed away, there was a conflict between Randy and Ozzy, because Ozzy there was a commitment that was made for to do the speak of the devil record, which is the Ozzy Black Sabbath re-recording. And that was the record to get out of the Don Arden situation. Yeah, I feel like Sharon talked about that. Yeah, if that's what you said, but I never asked,

why are we doing this? Sure. It's not my place to do that. Only news is that we were told, okay, the next thing we're going to do, and it's going to be here at this time. and Randy spoke up and says, listen, I've already recorded two Ozzy records, and I feel that for me, this is going to be step backwards.

He didn't want to do that. And this is where his integrity came in. And it did not sit very well with Randy, I mean, with Ozzy, because now Ozzy doesn't have his guitar player bandmate to, make the record with. So that was kind of in the air. That was in the air.

Before, of course, before Randy passed away, before the crash, they had come to an agreement. Okay. Randy was going to do the record, a couple more tours, and maybe another record. This is all up in the air. But initially, what he wanted to do was go back to school and get his degree. I have never played since with another musician. who was a rock star that decided to go back to school.

Did you guys talk about that personally? I would just listen. Right. Because this was his wish to do this. And it was like, I understood it. You know, he was in a place so different than mine. I did not, I would, I was, I did not take part of Blizzard of Oz and DiRefie Mettman.

To me, playing Boddaisley bass lines were playing geyser-butler bass lanes, you know, I'm playing somebody else's bass line. It had nothing to do with any musical integrity personally. Yeah. But for Randy, it's a job, but it's a great. And it's a great job, but it's a job. It's a job.

But for Randy, it was a whole different thing, you know. And so within a few days of them coming to an agreement. And you know, Sharon, we both know Sharon. At some point, if Randy would have not passed, would not died on the crash, she would have come up with a solution. Okay. To keep Randy in the band.

If Randy go to school, do this and that. Why wouldn't you? Because something would have happened. But at that moment, that's what was going on. There was a certain finality to Randy's contribution to Ozzy at that point. Sure. And I remember the last. night right after we play Knoxville.

It was a long drive from Knoxville to the Orlando area at a place called Kasimi. Yeah, that would have been about a 12, 14-hour drive, right? Yeah. And in those days, it was the Wild West as far as tour bus travel. Drivers will drive for 12 hours and for them to be able to drive 12 hours they have to get some little help, you know. And so anyways, I'm sitting in the lounge, front lounge of the tour bus, and there's Tommy and Randy and Ozzy. And we're watching, I believe it was Torah, Torah, Torah.

One of those Japanese war movies where there's a lot of plane. I think it's about the suicide. Yeah, the suicide. Yeah. That was on the screen. And I'm like, okay, I just finished doing the show and I don't want to watch this. So I'll go

I go in my bunk and wake up the next morning Randy saying Rudy, Roots, Roots. And I open up the curtain and he's standing in the doorway looking at me. And he says, hey, come up. I'm going to go on the plane up with

with, you know, the bus driver and racial. and I said no I knew that we were in Florida I grew up in Florida the last thing I wanted to do was go up on a Cessna flying around where I grew up and he is like

no yeah I told him I'm just going to wait until we get to the hotel and I'm going to get out of my bunk and lay by the pool okay that was a day off the next day we were playing the tangerine bowl with foreigner and so boy, I shut the curtains and go back to sleep.

And I wake up to, boom! And I go, I'm startled, you know, the bus was shaking. And I opened my curtain and Saranasi come out of the back lounge and we're all, you know, that area where the bunks are, the door is closed to the lounge and then I opened. and there's glass everywhere. And the passenger side window is blown. And I see our tour manager on his knees pulling his hair,

yelling, they're gone. I have no idea what is he yelling about. And so we're trying to get out of the bus. And Sharon Chubbs, the bus drivers, Andy Acock, Andrew, his wife off to the one side so we could get out to see what's going on because she was frozen standing there holding, you know, the frame of the door.

And I get out of the bus and I look over to my right and there's a tree right behind the bus and there's a garage, attached garage to a house on fire. Now, at that moment, I was not, not ready to accept the possibility of the reality that was going on. Sure. So I'm, you know, like, you know, I'm looking around what's going on, and then little by little information comes up that that was the plane that crashed.

Suddenly, I went deaf and all I heard was a low hum, like, mm, a frequency. It was definitely, I could see people yelling, crying, out, but I couldn't hear anything. And then it just appeared again, and I could hear the crackling of the fire, everything, and all the chaos. It took about an hour and a half for the fire department to arrive. This is 1982, middle of nowhere, in central Florida. There's no cell phones to be calling, you know.

the cops or the fire department. So somebody that was on a horse riding a horse, went, saw what happened. There's a house on fire. They ran, they rode back to their home, and they're the ones who call the fire department. And so we were in this hell trying to figure out what's going on, what can we do, and just in disbelief that we had lost,

Randy and Rachel, who were also on the plane. So, as you said, there's this 10 days where everybody's trying to figure out you guys are going to go back on tour. Yes, and we knew, and we briefly spoke about it. Everything was very solemn decisions made by Sharon, and they were basically, let's keep Ozzy busy, let's keep him occupy. Because one of the triggers, things started getting a little bit of killed for Ozzy right around when Randy decided that he really did not want to partake on the speak of the devil recording. He would stay up for a few nights drinking.

It was tough for him. that it was a decision that he had no control on. You know, and I mean, as far as making that record, and then maybe not wanted to be a part of that. So already Ozzy was, you know, very delicate at that point. And we knew that if Ozzy went home, he would drink himself to death. So on of I'm paraphrasing what you're telling me

but tell me if this I'm understanding it's it's better to keep him moving forward and did you agree with that from a personal point of view? For being there? That was the only decision to make. Okay, but set that aside, you just lost your buddy somebody loved him was close to.

How did you process that? Because that's not... I became a robot on stage. We did a show, film the show, that Randy was supposed to be a part of at Irvine. 1982. That was the last continental U.S. Diary of a Madman show. And when I saw myself in the video performing,

I knew that I was being a robot, but to actually witness it to see myself like that. I said, you know what, I did not get into this to become inhuman. I wasn't playing notes anymore. I was trying to survive a moment, a show, an hour and a half of survival. I will not look at the audience. I would not look at Ozzy. All I did, I was, when we played the garden,

mylesquare garden, I just put my head down and I cried right through, the whole show. Because when I first looked out, there was banners. God bless Randy. It was all about Randy. It was awake. Yeah. And I just lost it completely. Yeah. See if this tracks with you, because I've had my own versions of these things where playing is the hardest thing to do because of loss. I played the night after I found out my mother died. And it was one of those things where the funeral was going to be in a few days. So it was like, canceled the show or just go ahead and play the show. You know what I mean? And the reason I feel I understand, but I'm seeing if this tracks with your thing is music is such a beautiful, joyous celebration.

that when it isn't that, it's almost like the exact opposite. It's so painful because how do you do something that you love so much and this means so much to you? But when your heart is broken, it's like you don't know how to do those two things. Does that make sense? It took me decades to figure it out. I mean, nowadays I go on tour with choir riot. And for the first time, I have a higher purpose than just being,

Hey, Rudy's up there rocking, you know. No. I'm there to celebrate the memory of those who have passed. Randy, Frankie Benelli, Kevin Dubrow, and the legacy of the band. That's my purpose for doing that. But it took me decades because when I left Ozzy, it was because I had no idea of that responsibility that we, the bandmates who are left behind,

we have to those who have passed on to keep their music alive, our music, you know? I didn't know then. All that happened to me is I went into a shock. Shock. You know, it was trauma. It took me, again, I don't want to bring out the book,

but it took me writing the book to actually put it onto paper to fully get close. of the trauma that I had. And it's a scar. It leaves the scar. Of course. It's healed.

The scar is healed, but the scar is still there. Yeah. Yeah. So Quiet Riot's doing this song, Thunderbird. I'd heard the song before, but I didn't know it was connected to Randy until I listened to it again today. It's a beautiful track. Yeah. I mean, you can tell that everybody involves their hearts there.

Yeah. It's how I got to go back to what became known as Choir Riot because originally that was a continuation of Dubrow. When I left Dubrow to join Ozzy, all the members came in. You know, it's just Kevin named the band Dubrow so it could be a revolving door. So he wasn't, yeah, okay. Or he would be the only constant. Okay.

You know, because 40-something years ago, I mean, in music, it's never easy. to succeed in music. So, you know, back then, just like we have right now, we have musicians who have multiple projects. Sure. Until one of them takes off, you know. Yeah, those were different times, too, though, as far as what people, you had to kind of pick one lane.

Yeah, exactly. You know, so it was named Dubrow, and I get a phone call from Kevin. I was getting ready to go and do Speak of the Devil, at the Ritz in New York, and he says, hey, there's a possible. record deal and how would you like to come down and record on Thunderbird, which I, most of the songs that wound up on the metal health record were Dubrow songs that I used to play with Kevin

when I was playing in Dubrow. So when I left Fosia, I actually went back to Dubrow, which was the band that I was in, but it got renamed Quiet Riot because I didn't want to join you, leave one of the biggest bands in the world to be in somebody else's band. I see. You know, it didn't make any sense, you know. So I said, okay, we have to get a band name. And Kevin said, well, you and I were used to be in choir riots,

so might as well call it choir riot. And how does Frankie Benali come? He was in Dubro at the time. Okay. He was in Dubro before I came back to record metal help. So was Carlos Cabasso. Yeah, yeah. But Frankie have many other gigs going on at the time.

We can talk about Frankie real quick, because I was listening to some of Frankie stuff today, knowing I was going to talk to you. And it's interesting because I see Frankie as a crop of those drummers from that time. But now that I think about it and do the, like, he's actually way more influential than I thought he was. Like he kind of set the template for the way a lot of those people played. Like, he was that guy before everybody else. Does that make sense?

Yeah. From playing with him and knowing him personally, I know. He had, well, he had the biggest record collection. He used to work at a record store in Full Otterdale. So he always, when I started playing with him, he's the one who brought me into that world. He got me closer to getting out of the Miami-Cuban rock scene,

which wasn't even rock. It was more Cuban than rock. And I wanted to be where everybody sang with an accent. We were in the Kinsenayneras. circuit. Sure. And one day Will Lee shows up

with his, with a band playing with a Cuban band. Willie, the bassist from Yeah, that's right. Letterman. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's from Miami. So I know that, yeah. Yeah, Jacko and all that. But there's Will Lee and I'm going, this guy's like from Mars. He sounds just like the radio. Yeah.

He doesn't have an accent where he sings. And he's playing amazing. Yeah. Of course, his dad was the the dean of the music department at the University of Miami. So he had a proper music education, you know.

It was a revelation, you know, as to what needs, what you need to have. Oh, I see. You know, to make it, you know. So I made the transition from playing in Bay County going to Broward County, which is Fullododale, you know, more of the American, you know,

side of Florida. And Frankie is the one that turned me on to all the European, British bands, then he was always on ahead of anybody that I knew as far as what's coming, you know, music. And he always gave me the records to listen to it. And he's the one who taught me how to be part of the rhythm section, that relationship between the drums and the bass. Yeah, I saw an interview that you gave and if you don't mind kind of picking up the point.

You were talking about how heavy metal bass basically is, you know, Little Richard, you know, this idea of, yeah, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. or Jerry Lee Lewis. And I never put those pieces together, and when I heard you say it, I was like, wow, that's so... Because, you know, to the average sort of musician, whatever that means, heavy metal bass is not particularly sophisticated. You know, the 80s style, let me finish and tell you tell me if I'm wrong.

No, because you have so much to do with this style. The Bob Daisley era base, that's sort of more walking around, which guys who grew up on McCartney, you too, heavy metal bass ended up being kind of like, do do, do, do, do, do. It's like the simplification of that, but it's not a lack of musical sophistication. It's finding more musical drive from a rhythm point of view.

Even think of Van Halen bass. It's like, bum, boom, boom, boom, right? Yeah. Does that track with you, what I'm saying? Okay. I see, from my own experience, being a musician, You go to put you through a grinder or a filter. It goes like this, right?

It's like, okay, I would say 80% of what you can do musically, nobody hears it. It could be because of the mix. I recently did a recording that, okay, somebody asked me to, you know, they put together Tommy Aldrich and Brad Gillis and myself and say, We want you to do the real me by the Who. Okay. You know, John and Whistle is like, you know, what can I say?

You know? Yeah. Any base player of my generation, you know, he is like one of the most influential, if not the most influential and the utmost respect that I have for him. So I say that, you know, I knew John. You still hang out. And it was like, wow, this is something. an opportunity to like, thank you, John. Yeah.

You know? So I studied the baseline. And I say there's only one way to play this song. It's like the. Exactly the way he would have done. Yeah. Right. Okay.

I study his tone. You know, I got some. Very aggressive. Yeah. You know, that tone. Okay. Now, it's a tone that was in the 70s. You put that tone in an occurrence recording.

It's going to get buried. I see. Because all the other tones are modern. It's very bright. Very bright. Yeah. Right. So that's what happened to my base.

You're in there somewhere. I'm in there. I'm in there. But, you know, that's what happened. You know, it's like in a situation where they send you tracks and you record something. You're not in the same room working with one engineer who's going to say, well, we're going to work in your tone a little bit. And so it fits. I had no idea what the guitar was going to.

to sound like or any of the other instruments was going to sound like. All I knew is that I want to capture the essence of John and Whistle. I did but nobody's going to hear it. So let's talk about you know, the evidence is there, the quiet

riot metal health album. First is... Okay. But can I ask questions? I'm sorry. Or you want to take over. You take over. No, no, no. I love your questions. I do. You should interview me. We'll flip the... Okay. So it's a different way to come at it because

when things are over explored they tend to fall into kind of like there's a story and the story is interesting but it's maybe not the whole story metal health album first real heavy metal album ever to go number one you know true right that's is that fair it's it was the first debut there's been they have been other metal records that went to number one okay first debut

debut, yeah. But I mean, it's a seminal moment. Oh, yeah. Okay, I mean, there's before that album and there's after that album, right? So, a couple things. One is, I love that record when it came out. I got it and I had it.

Thank you. And I, and I, and I, not only did I get it, I got it, I got it musically. Interesting. You know, so that record came out, what, 83? Is that sound right? Well, it got released in 83. Okay. It was recording in 82.

So I'm 16 years old. So I'm the perfect age, you know what I mean, to really, am I 16? I can't even do math anywhere. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So, but even back then, there was a bit of a vibe amongst the metal community that it wasn't heavy enough or something enough. Kevin obviously rubbed people the wrong way. MTV, Kevin rubbed people the wrong way. There was that vibe.

And then over time, the record really hasn't gotten the respect it deserves. Does you feel that is that a fair statement? Do you feel that's fair? That is interesting. I mean, to me, their respect, it deserves is based on people going out and buying it and listening to the record. It's still in sound exchange, which is a reflection of, of airplay, yeah, it does really well. Yeah.

And we still sell records, you know, because we still get wild taste. Yeah, I'm not trying to say anything negative. Yeah. No, no, I understand. So the respect, see, I think they did not get their respect because there was not a follow-through. Okay.

So pause that for one thought. Pause that for one second. Okay. So here's when I'm after. Because I was there as a fan and I got it, like, I mean, I got record. And some of the things you've even told me today, which I didn't know, like you were talking about Frankie's record collection. You're talking about you loving Bowie and Herbie Flowers and your influences, even your Cuban music influences. There's a lot more in that record than meets the

eye. That record in many ways is a, is an 80s clarification of something that the 70s didn't solve, which was how to make that music pop. Interesting. The glam influence, in particular on their record, and obviously with Slade, come on, feel the noise. That's the sort of secret sauce of the record. It's like, for people who don't like hard rock or heavy metal that don't really love it, who don't really understand the difference between Deep Purple and Rainbow, or even the Graham Bonnet version of Rainbow. You know, I mean, they don't really understand it.

They just kind of paint it with a broad brush. I'd like to say I'm a music snob, and what I think, that people don't understand about the metal health record, is this a lot, it's actually a more sophisticated record. It's so, it's so clear in its presentation that it comes off simpler than it is. But putting those influences together in that way, Quiet, right, was the first band that ever figured that out.

And you were there. I love that perception. Okay, cool. I love that perception. That's what I was after. Because it just opens up all of these perceptions. See, now I can move like this because you open up that lane for me to move around.

That's what I'm asking you to do. Take me back into that. I'll take you back into that. Oh, boy, how much time do we have? Okay, many things were going on at that time. There was a turnover. There was the new British invasion of the new wave of metal happening. Iron Maiden, Def Leopard, UFO.

You named it. And these are bands that we either. tour with Ozzy, like UFO and Def Leppard, Morrowhead, Saxon. So I could see them every night, what's going on. Meanwhile, here's Kevin Dubrow in L.A., in this band-Dubrow writing songs to impress Randy so he could leave Ozzy

to come back and play with him. I didn't know that. That is the product of that. So Randy has an influence... Oh, Major, I'll tell you how big it went... That's so beautiful. Bang your head. Okay.

So we're touring with Ozzy in England. A girl is opening up. And this is when Phil Collin was still in the band. And we are watching the kids banging their heads on stage. So we were going back to L.A. to start the Dyer of a Madden and pre-production. And the first thing we'll always do, Randy and I will get in the car. We pick us up, go to Kevin's place, pick them up, go to the rainbow, and give them an update. Because there's no internet.

Nobody knows what's going on. Here's what happened. Here's the tour story. And we were saying, this is what's going on out there, right? And we told them about the kids banging their heads. That's where metal hell the song came from. Because originally it was a snow song. Now, that's Carlos Cavaso's band before he joined the bro.

And it was called No More Booze. No More Boos. There you go. You got it. So Kevin rewrote the song and it became mental health. So all along,

Kevin was writing music and moving forward to impress Randy. So Randy, his idea was to come back to play with him. And their relationship was still good. Oh, it was always good. Brothers, yeah. Yeah, it was always brothers.

You know, once Randy died, Kevin just lost that. He had nobody to play for. Nobody to impress, nobody to like... I see. You know? Because Randy had been there from the very beginning. Right.

You know, something that I did not share with Kevin. I did not share that two or three years of them growing up playing music. And you know when you're... Exactly. And that's what happened to Kevin. He got bitter because he lost Randy. He lost the opportunity to play with Randy after Randy, you know, was in Ozzy. I see.

So that's what really, you know, there were three Kevins that I played with. There was Kevin with the Randy Rosera, then the Dubrow Kevin, and then the metal health Kevin. And that, he was damaged by Randy's passing by then. And then also, once we made it, all the leashes come out in L.A. And then the, you know, the easiest way to bypass all the struggle that you have to be to a musician to get into the circle of success is to like, come on. Let me give you, you know, you want some of this, you want some of that, I'll give it to you. And then all of a sudden you become best buddies and you are in that circle. Yeah.

And that's what happens. The fastest way to get to a band when they're young is drugs. Yep. We had a guy once walk up to us backstage, and he just had all these drugs. And we just met the guy five seconds ago. And next thing you know, we start doing all this guy's drugs. And as we're doing the drugs, we're saying, we might die. He might be, we'll be taking poison.

It's like so stupid. I know. Made total sense, right? We met this guy. He's got a bunch of drugs. Hey, come on. What's your name? Phil?

Come on, Phil. Come hang out with us. Yeah. Well, suddenly, he's your new tour manager. One more round on the metal health album. I know it's overly simple to say, did you know you had something special, but did you feel why you were making the record

that something different was happening? Yeah, you know what? If you put together side by side, if you listen to Speak of the Devil, my performance on that. Yeah. And you listen. I had that record too much.

Yeah, and if you listen to metal health, it's like two different bass players. First of all, when I went into record Thunderbird, and there was enough time left in the session, the producer said, do you remember Slick by Cadillac? Yeah, let's do it. So we caught her in two passes. My equipment was already on its way to New York to record Speak of the Devil. So I have my practice base, which was a roll and synthesizer.

Oh, you had one of those. Yeah, one G.R. 55, whatever. And that's what you hear on Thunderbird, which I had like a chorusing thing. Yeah, yeah. For the rest of the songs, that wasn't appropriate, right? So I wound up, I took off the synthesizer and just plug it in directly into the pickup that he had.

And I say, well, you know, there's no record deal. So I'm sure that if these guys ever get a record deal, this will be just a demo, you know. So it was kind of like three. Famous last words, though. Yeah, it was called it treated that way. And then there was time for two songs that I knew from Dubrow, besides Sunderbird.

Let's Get Crazy and Loves the B. So by the time I left that session, I'm still a member of Ozzy. I recorded four songs for mental health. And then I went back to New York and there's again, there's this doom and gloom, you know, of being, you know, playing in the band. I mean, I love playing musically in the band, but it had become very hard. Well, I had to be hard for Ozzy to have to play Black Sabbath songs

when he's coming off all that success. You've lost Randy, which is beyond a tragedy. Here's poor Brad Gillis kind of thrown into the deep end. Yeah. It was tough. It was very tough. So I made one of toughest decisions ever ever made my life, which was to leave one of the biggest bands in the world. for the complete unknown, and especially the way that Ozzy and Sharon treated me so wonderful.

They were wonderful, wonderful to me. Even to this day, inviting me to play with you and everybody else, that was so unexpected, but they did. And I went there just, you know, out of being grateful for their invitation and find out that everybody else was there for the same reason. Amazing, right? We'll get to that in a second. Yeah.

We'll get to end strong, you know. So, record comes out. It's huge success. You know what I mean? So really, for the first time, you have your own success. I mean, it must have felt different. I can imagine? I was too busy.

Thinking about it. I didn't have time to think about it. Because remember, I just, I had been on tour. Blizzard was, we took a month up, The entirety of a madman, Randy passes away, we're putting guitar players to come in and finish the tour. Then there's this speak of the devil, and my friends were doing,

the Dubrow band was doing this session, and so it was kind of like, and then, so I record both records back to back at the same time. And then I leave Ozzy and finish the wrestle that you, track that I needed to finish for the, for the metal health, and then we did not do any gigs at all until the record was released in March. Okay.

And then it just, it just took off. Yeah, it was amazing. It was... I mean, it was serendipity. How we played at the Oz Festival was because we had these... Our agency also represented a booking agent, represented scorpions. and they were doing a warm-up tour like for two weeks

that led up to the US Festival because they have been in the studio recording. So we did that run from Duluth down to Denver and on the last day of our tour we do Denver and Barry Fay who was the promoter for the US Festival

he's the one who booked the bands he had just moved John Mellencamp no Joe Walsh from the to the pop day, Stevie Nix. So we had a spot open. Yeah, spot open. So you guys just got kind of thrown on them.

And he runs into our dressing room after our show and says, hey, guys, introduce himself and how would you guys like to play the Us Festival? So we said yes on the spot. And we didn't have a crew when we played there. We just have to call up friends to borrow equipment because all the equipment have been put by the other bands who were playing. Is it a true story that Ozzy punched you at this gig? Is that a true?

Not there. Not there? I think we didn't see anybody because we were in the middle of our own tour. So we got off the stage like around 12.30 because we went on at noon. I think we did half an hour. And then we towel off. My wife was my girlfriend at the time. She was there.

This is 1983 and just went back to the airport and flew back out back out to on the road again. it was in 1984 that that incident happened. Okay. And it was not at the event. It was at a hotel. Yeah, okay. I just thought it was so strange, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, it's a better headline. Yeah. It happened at the other. No, but we didn't see anybody. We just like this split. So, as I alluded to before, your man, Kevin Dubrow, his relationship with the press, and I say this is somebody who has a very fractuous relationship

with the press for many, many years. He seemed to really lean into it, right? Is that accurate? That's my memory of the time. Here's two things. I remember seeing you either on like American bandstand or something. Does that sound right? It was like one of those types of shows.

On mental health. Solid goal. We used to do a solid goal a lot. Okay. I remember seeing you on there. Yeah. Right? And it was like, you guys came from Mars or something.

You know what I mean? Because it's like, I'd seen you, but it was like you being on one of those shows felt like, but that's America, right? When something kicks in, suddenly you're on the show, you shouldn't be on. Yeah. So there you are.

Yeah, we're doing all that. All of it, right? Yeah. So I have a memory of seeing you on there. Yeah. And then my other memory is a lot of MTV. Yeah. A lot of MTV.

Come and feel the noise was on every half hour. But what a great video, what a great song. I mean, I still think that's one of the great I mean, it's so on point. Yeah. But from a personal point of view, because I know I drove my band crazy with my mouth. Okay, so I'm saying this in the flip side. You're somebody who's, you know, you're not a person who's going to go out and cause a lot of trouble with your mouth.

That's generally been your MO through the years. But Kevin was a notorious... Yeah. ...istur. Yeah. Well, he was bitter because... And this is the fact. We got signed to a production deal.

And which means that, you know, you know what it means, but for the listener. Yeah, you basically don't have, maybe, maybe not. And you're on somebody else's, you're not even signed to a label. You're signed to some guy or girl. We did sign to the label, but under distribution by Columbia. Right. But we were signed to a Columbia record deal. Okay.

But there was a certain percentage that we took. and the bulk went to the production company. But without that record deal, we would have a record. So he was bitter about the deal. Yeah. Well, what he was bitter about was that after our record went to number one, every label out there signed bands from the strip. And they probably got better deals than you got.

And they got standard deals. And so he was bitter about that. my perception was completely different. I looked at it like if it wasn't for that, you know, crappy deal, we wouldn't have this. Plus, we were killing it with merchandise. We had masks that we would sell, the quiet-brived mask,

and we had hats and shirts and you name it. That's how we were making the money before credit cards. Right. I don't want to get you any kind of tax implications. No, no, because we had a company, that did that. Right.

And they would say, okay, there's so much money made and that's it. So was it a happy time in the band or I know it's hard to sum these things? Oh, yeah. And we were actually too busy to even, you know, Kevin would do interviews

and of course the interview would not be printed until like maybe three months later and by then it was like, we're moving on to something else, you know. Yeah, and then I get really crazy until, see, because the interviews were, the bad rap were aimed at musicians. You know, I, what were your rants about?

You mean me? Yeah. Oh, everybody. I didn't spare anybody. I still have people mad at me. I still, to this day, we'll see people and go up and apologize for things I said or did. We'll see you. And some people will never let it go.

Yeah. Never like to. But, you know, that to me is a learning journey. I think what's hard to explain to people who wouldn't understand, and especially back then, maybe less so now, is you were put into such a competitive atmosphere that you couldn't help but see people around you as the competition. Like it was like it was like a, it's me or you,

when it wasn't me versus them. It was actually us versus all of them. That's such an interesting perception because I always saw your band being totally unique. Well, we were, but we were still put under the same forces as everybody else, the crappy record deal, the being threatened. You could be dropped at any moment. Really?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it was more of an industry. Well, I wasn't sophisticated enough. to understand that the guy in the other band wasn't my enemy. You know what I mean? And in many ways, the record company wasn't my enemy. I think it was just a way of expressing discomfort in a very juvenile way.

I thought it was kind of funny, too, and I said a lot of funny things. But isn't it ironic that the same rebellion that would make you a rock star can destroy your career? Oh, yeah. Still destroying my career. I mean, in the very seat you're sitting in Gavin Rossdale-Lebush. I mean, we talked about it when I did the interview with him. I mean, at some point, he came up to me in the 90s and said, why are you saying bad things about my band?

And I later went and apologized to him, and I apologized even to him again when he was sitting in this chair because he's proven my perception of the moment wrong. You know, I mean, like the reason that I was being critical of his band or other people's bands seems so irrelevant now in the looking back through time. because anybody who can rise up to a level of, like we've sat here and talk for hours about your story, to come from where you've come from,

to actually reach the world stage and play with such great musicians and be involved with such great music. It's such a miracle. That is a miracle. But in the moment, in the competitive heat of the moment, you don't always necessarily respect everybody in the game. And or I do think that people in the media

and the record companies don't mind you being in a competitive spirit. You know, that is such an interesting button that you just push. I dealt with that before. And mine is like, again, it's a spiritual journey. So if I'm going to be spiritual about my creativity or where I'm at in my career, I cannot be bitter about it because I must look it as a blessing.

Yeah. So I've been in bad situations that I know I have to get out, but I know that I made a commitment and I'm not going to walk away from them until I've completed the assignment. Yeah. At some point I woke up from all that

and I realized it was a miracle that we were successful and I should be grateful and not. Because, you know, you have your list, I have my list. We can sit here and talk about all the times we've been screwed over and this thing and that thing and this promise. But the fact that we made it through is the miracle. Yes.

But it takes time sometimes, and in my case, maturity to appreciate how incredible it is. And one of the reasons I like talking to people like you that I admire is to celebrate how unique that journey is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was 30 when I joined Ozzy. Right. You were younger than I was when you started. Well, we got our first record deal when I was 23.

I was a different person at 23. Yeah. Me too. Oh, yeah. So back to The Quiet Riot. Like you said, the inability to have a, let's call it, a as successful follow-up or maintain that moment. Did you feel that internally? Oh, yeah.

This is what happened. You know, with every successful record, it's a lot of touring involved. Well, sorry, but back then they'd want to keep you on the road into infinity because you're making a lot of money. Until they feel that it's, well, the record company. Until they feel that. Did management too for you guys too? Well, we were on the road for a year and a half after the record was released and it was like, okay, guys, we need to have your record out for the third quarter. Because four quarters, it used to be Christmas albums.

Yes. So the third quarter will be like, you know, the record. Yeah. Write another classic album go. We got pulled off the road. Right in the studio, we don't have time to write. Mental Health took about 10 years to write.

You know, it's the first album. You got all these songs that you'll be working on for the last 10 years, you know. And the next record took like, what? You got six weeks to make this record. It was like, wow. So now it became time. Okay, well, what were the rejects from the last?

last album. So half of that record is that. And the other half is just songs, bits and pieces that we used to do during sound check, you know, that could have been cool riffs that became songs. Yeah. Yeah.

And then while we were doing the radio promotions from every city, because you know how it goes. You leave town and then you go in the parking, drive to the parking lot of the radio station, you roll out in the morning, you did the interview, and you get back on, then you check into your room. Repeat.

Okay. And so every DJ we say, well, you know, the Slate song is so great. You should do another Slate song from the next record. And most of them said, Mama, we're crazy now. So we thought, okay, let's do Mama to please the DJs. Okay. Perfect Storm. There was a band called Mama's Boys that at the same time recorded Mama Were Crazy Now.

And MTV just ate it up. So it was them against us. See, there's the competition. Did you guys lose? Yeah. So I remember your version, so I didn't know that there was a competitive version. Mama's voice.

Yeah. Where's Mama's voice now? I don't know. Okay, so we've all been there. The energy starts to dissipate. The record company starts acting weird. The DJ's artist's nice anymore. The people stop taking.

you out to dinner. There's not as many fans in the wherever you're playing. Did that all happen that way? Does it? Can I add something else? Please. Yeah. Every single band in the world that you are a fan of now is against you. In the press. We brought together metal. I think that was the biggest accomplishment that we did for the second record. Everybody against us. United. Really? Yeah, oh, yeah. What was the, what was the, what was the consistency of the criticism? Not a good band, not good song. Oh, yeah, I remember, I think it was either right, right, uh, one of the guys from Queen or, or Billy Squire saying, oh, these guys by next year, they'll be hairdressers.

Well. Well, it's the 80s, you know, they were still in viable, yeah, occupation. So how did you deal with, let's call it, the diminishment of the situation or the adversity of the situation? Okay, start there. How did you take the diversity? I left the band. You left the band. Yeah, because all of a sudden, my friends hated me or hated the band, and you started going down with the ship.

I couldn't fix the situation because all of a sudden they turned on me. Who turned on you? The band, my band. Your band from within turned on you. Yeah, because. Because that was me. First of all, I was married. I, one thing, see,

one of the major differences in our trajectory was that I already been through it with Ozzy. I've seen what success looks like and how it should be handled. And you, they hadn't, so you had the, okay. Yeah, I was already, let's say, mature. Yeah. I had a spiritual center. That was my compass, you know, moral and integrity and everything else having to do with life.

I was happily married, and they were still on the other path, you know, the new rock stars. But did they blame you for something or? No, I, you know, sometimes in the 80s, because of course, you know, your generation is more 90s, which is post or during AIDS. Okay. Free AIDS was wild. I know, because my father was from that generation. Yeah, it was wild.

And if you do not partake in the wild lifestyle, you were an outcast. I see. So you were kind of ostracized because you sort of weren't hanging with the gang anymore. Yeah. Okay. So let's just stop there because there's other things I want to talk about that are important. Because, as we know, you're still carrying forth the banner of Quiet Riot. You're the only sort of original member in the group.

Well, of what became Marwa Health, I'm the only original member. Yes. So you're the only tangible link to that. But I do want to talk about your marriage because, as you know, a successful marriage in the music arts is very rare and a successful marriage over 40 years is even more rare. So besides the obviousness, the obvious part, which is you love your wife and you celebrate her, what do you think has been the sort of the thing that's kept you sane through it all? Because, dot, dot, dot, you literally came from the time when excess was part of the game. It's different now.

It's different, but back then it was celebrated. Two towns. I came from Miami in the 70s. You know. Somehow I know what that means, even though I wasn't there. Scarface is a home movie. Okay. And then you have L.A., you know.

But then, you know, I did not partake in Miami because I, or in L.A. because I knew that was going to get in the way of me making it. I knew it. Yeah. Because I used to run. running to huge rock stars at the rainbow who were completely out of it and nobody wanted to play with them. I see.

Because they were irresponsible. I mean, these are people who are gigantic talents and now they have cleaned up, you know, and they have their own story. But I learned from that. I see. You know. And so it, it, it, the, you know, when you're, you know, when you're, you know, when you're with the right person, you just know it.

Because every day you want to be with them, you know, even if I'm on the road, you know, this is the person that I want to come home to. But, you know, as much as it is a journey of a celebration when I go on the road with Quiet Riot, as soon as I step in my garage to get in my car to go to the airport, it's my journey home. I see.

It's the beginning. It's all about me coming home. I see. to my wife and my little dogs, you know, Willow. And it's been like that. I mean, since we first got together in 1981, I found that she was the only person that I really wanted to be when I was back in L.A.

And I think sense of humor. We have fun. I think fun is such an important part of any relationship. Yeah. Even in a band, you can have fun. What would you say to somebody? Because, you know, especially young people, you know, there's still, we all know what it means when we say rock and roll fantasy.

So what would you say to someone who's young that hasn't lived their rock and roll fantasy or their version of the fantasy? What is it about love and fidelity in marriage that always trumps the rock and roll fantasy? I, you know, that's a great question. And often, you know, couples were asked me, one from the couple. How do you know, it's a good question. How do you know, the right one. It says, well, if you can imagine your life going on without this person, they're not the right one. Yeah. You've got to find the one that you cannot imagine your life going on without them. Yeah. I, to praise my wife in the in the, in the thought, it wasn't until I had

that relationship with her and now with my children. It was the first time in my life I actually understood what was missing in my life because I had everything else. It was the one thing I couldn't buy. It was the one thing I could manufacture with my talent. I had to commit to one person to really get the best out of life. And what was amazing was for the first time I life, I started enjoying my musical life because I didn't need my musical life to be what I didn't have. My musical life could just be my musical life, which is fantastic. I know exactly what. you're talking about. Okay. Last thing, because we shared this incredible three days with the Ozzie final show, the Black Sabbath final show. And, you know, we had to play with such great,

you know, you were, you were kind of one of the MVP's that was playing with a lot of different musicians, Sammy Hagar, Tom Morello, Nuno Bettencourt, Chad Smith. Kay-K. K-K. I mean, so incredible. right? And one memory that I have said that I will always hold is me and you looked at each other about 10 times during those three days I thought this is really fun. This is awesome. We're having such a cool time. But I don't know. I don't have a question as much as a, you know, for you, particularly because your relationship to Sharon and Ozzy, it's a lot of emotions to process

us because we went through the whole joy of playing together. It's the, I don't know, you tell me, it's the most behaved. I've ever seen a group of rock stars in my life. And to me, it was in tribute to Ozzy and Sabbath. Everybody was on their best behavior. I've never seen anything like it. I never saw one ego moment. I never saw one tantrum where somebody's dressing room was.

It was everybody was just on their, it was like summer camp. Everybody was in just a great mood. Was that your experience, too? Absolutely. Absolutely. And the day before the show, July 4th, I was standing with Sharon and Ross Halfen. The great photographer. And we're talking, and it dawned on me, and we talked about this, that we were the only people besides Ozzie and my wife that had been present at their wedding on July 4th. 1982. I mean, you know, and then I just happened to have a photo that somebody sent me recently that Ross Hoffant took of during the wedding there was a luau band. And Ozzy got up or Sunday?

We got up. And I'm playing a stand-up bass and Brett Gillis is playing an acoustic guitar and Ozzy singing. He's got to lay on and we're doing paranoid. The rum version. Yeah, I'm a rush. Paranoing. And we're going like, wow. And then the year before, what was our first Aussie show in a stadium?

It was a Day on the Green, Bill Graham's Day on the Green in San Francisco, Oakland Stadium, actually. And so we had, and Ross was there taking the photos. It was like this moment that we all share, you know, in our lives. and watching Ozzy so energetic during his performance with both, this solo and Black Sabbath, it gave me this sense of like, well, maybe he's not as ill as we think he is or that we experience. Because during the photo session, you and I were hanging,

and Ozzy was kind of like conserving his energy. He was rehearsing still with both. like Sabbath and the Aussie, but he was kind of like, you know, you could see he was a bit frail, but his performance was like, it was like a maniac. Yeah.

It was sitting down, but still, you know, jumping up and down. And then a couple of weeks later, I get a text from a friend, giving me condolences, and I go, what's going on? And he tells me what it was.

And it was like, yeah. And immediately, immediately started getting, requests to, you know, to make a statement to say something. And it was like, I'm speechless. I don't know what to say. And it took me two weeks, two weeks to get a sense of why I was feeling like that,

a feeling that it was just like I had when we lost Randy. I was lost. Why am I feeling this lost? And then it came to realize that Randy, Ozzy, and Sharon are the three people responsible for my career. And to lose one of them again, another one,

I have, it was the same sense of loss. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, because I'd been involved in the in the final show I got drafted to do some interviews afterwards and because out of respect for Sharon and of course Ozzy I wanted to help set maybe the right tone and I'll give you a quick quick funny thing funny so that night the day Ozzy passed that night I was on BBC radio which is obviously a pretty big deal in English.

and I was in England at the time because I was rehearsing with my band and they said okay you know we're going to play this thing and then we're going to come to you and Henry Rollins was also talking and so it starts with like a news report like today blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

and it was all the dumb stuff with Ozzie the biting of the head and the thing even talking about stuff that had gone on between Sharon and Ozzie and I thought my God he's he's not even been past away for six, eight hours. So they play all that, and then they come to me, you know, live, you know what I mean? So I felt like I was in the right place because I wanted to say the right

things that people like us care about. Ozzy's influence, Ozzy's longevity, you know. And even at the end, the guy said, how would you rate his legacy? And I said, well, you may not understand what I'm saying, but I would put Ozzy up there with Sinatra as a singular voice who for four to five decades touched people through the magic of their voice. And I don't even think that they as singers even understand the power of that. Because for them, it's just natural. They open their mouth and out comes that sound. And the guy laughed. Like, I've never heard a comparison to that before. And then they cut me off. You know what I mean? They didn't cut. me off to cut me off because they were going to something else.

So I felt it was right to be in that media thing, you know. I'm trying to think of where I'm trying to go with this. This is where our two thoughts connect. We love our fans. We love the people who've made us have this great dream of music. Even today I ran into Paul Stanley in Los Angeles. and Paul was saying, don't we have amazing lives? It's only Paul Stanley can say it, you know what I mean?

And if I could give any, and I'm asking you if you want to contribute to this thought, but if I could give anybody like a little bit of a magnifying glass into the world that we've touched in different ways, and obviously here talking about Sabbath, Ozzy and of course the Osborne kids, is inside it's a family it's not a perfect family and when we were taking that picture with Ross Pantara

me you tool Metallica it's a family in a way that people could never understand and maybe not even everybody's a friend but it's a family that's because it's such a unique fraternity of people

and in that case it's like you said, it's Ozzie's connection. Metallica, because without Ozzie, Metallica, never would have reached that level of success, and they say it. It's not some music critic writing it. It's Metallica saying, we're indebted to this guy. And even you talking about, I mean, Rudy Sarzo, you know.

So I think that's the beauty of it is, for a rare moment in rock history, where it's about egos and insane. sanity and the stupid stories. We just made it about music for one day and the love of this band and this artist. And to be there, it was truly a magical thing. It truly was a magical thing. Absolutely.

And the fans are so many messages that I'm sure you have also read from your fans, how Ozzy and Black Sabbath changed their lives, saved their lives. Yeah. It's, it's, I think it's, again, it's going to be an infinite emotion. But that's the way, but that's music, you see. Yeah. That's the beauty. Absolutely. The song will outlive us, right?

The consciousness. There you go. Thank you, Ruth, God bless it. Yes, you.