The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Susan Olsen | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

In this wide-ranging conversation, Billy delves into Susan Olsen’s life before, during and after The Brady Bunch. They trace her path from six-year-old Gunsmoke guest to Cindy Brady, unpacking the Brady casting process, on-set dynamics, the short-lived Brady Bunch Variety Hour, and the realities of childhood fame—stage fright, typecasting, and why therapists still use Brady reruns with kids. They swap vintage-TV lore (Pat Boone, Don Ho, “fake Jan”), explore the show’s appeal to Gen X latch-key viewers, and discuss how those lessons inform Olsen’s work running a performing-arts school today Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

There are countless people that have come up to me and said that show literally saved my life. It makes more of my heart because I don't feel alone in this feeling. Oh, no, you're not alone at all. You say fame to me. I know what it means. I mean, I really know that feeling of like there's no manual. So then you're famous and the show is over. So what's your mindset?

To some extent, I felt guilt. Guilt. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So I'm obsessed with gun smoke. So that's where I want to start. Oh, oh, I love it. Yes.

I'm obsessed with, I bought like every gun smoke episode ever. Like, it's like 800. It's like something. You've got to be something wrong with you to watch them all. And I've watched a lot of them. It was a what, 20 years? Something like that. You know, one interesting thing about that you, because you were on the show,

was they debated for many years whether or not James Arnest would get with the woman whose name I can't think of the, was played the proprietor of the, of the saloon. Oh, really? A kitty. Kitty. Yeah. Because fans would always say are kitty and the Marshall ever going to get together. And they made a decision, kind of like the Simpsons did, where they decided never age Bart.

They made a decision that the secret of the show success was that they never get together romantically. Right, right. They would hint at it. That was good. a one-night stand, but never together. And they believe that had to do with the longevity, that they never gave away. That's it, yes. Yeah.

Keep that tension. So, obviously, you were very young when you were on the show, seven years old or so. Yeah, I think I was, well, on Gunsmoke, I was six for the first episode. And speaking of, you know, romantic relationships, the mother, the story is about a mother, a widow, with two children. Of course, I was one of them. Festus is sweet on her. Okay.

And it played really well with the audience. So they did a second episode, and they were thinking about having him get hitched. And so I might have been a regular on gun smoke. Abilia? Yes. Yes. A man called Smith.

Yes. Earl Holman played. Holloman played the father. So the nerd in me wants to know what it would be like to be on a set like that. I mean, obviously you were a kid, but do you have a memory of like this? Because it was the whole, and I watched some of the scenes that you were in. It's like the whole city, you know, all the buildings and the carts going by with the horses and all that. Yeah, I didn't see that until the second episode. Okay. Maybe that's the clip that I saw. Like took place at our house and it was rural. And the second episode was especially fun because the kids were entering our animals in

a fair. So we had a goat, and then we had this adorable piglet named Thomas. And so I, you know, I got to work with the piglet, and I have Ellie Mae Clampett syndrome. So I was over the moon about that. So is that something you reflect on fondly? I mean, it's such a distant memory, but it must be kind of cool, you know? I reflect very fondly. One of the most fond things is Ken Curtis, who played Festus. Right. And I don't know how many people know this, but he was also a big band singer. Did not know that. Yeah. And he had a beautiful voice. And he had a kind of a mollo. He had a kind of a melodious way of talking, which is interesting. Yeah, yeah.

I think musical instincts get used in everything you do. And my mom overheard him because he would pretty much stay in character. Even with the camera's up? Yeah. And then, but when we'd rap, then, like, he's on the phone. And my mom's, my mom's just thinking, gee, that man has a sexy voice and turns on, it's Festus. He was actually a really good looking man with a beautiful speaking voice, a beautiful singing voice, and I was enthralled with the fact that he could change so drastically.

I thought, wow, that's a real actor. And he was so freaking nice. I mean, he was so sweet, considerate, and, you know, praising, just a dream to work with. You know, James Arnest was sort of handpicked almost by John Wayne. Oh, okay. John Wayne had a lot to do with the opening of Gunsmoke as a show. He kind of endorsed not only the show, but also endorsed James Arnest. So he has got this kind of magisterial presence and all that. That's what I love about the show.

It obviously is set in the old west, but has this kind of mythical quality that a lot of great. Yeah, bigger than life. And I didn't get to, I don't know if I even had a single scene with. with Arness. Yeah. But I would think you would remember because he was a big guy. Yeah, well, I, because he wasn't on the set, I used to sit in his rocking chair. So, I know your family had some tie to show business and your brother and stuff like that.

But, I mean, as a six-year-old, are you like, are you conscious like I'm in show business? Oh, yeah, very much so. Can you walk me through that a little bit? Well, I mean, okay, it's such a, it's so weird. There's four kids in the family and every one of us got discovered. It began with my brother Larry, who he was 24 when I was born. So, I mean, there's a big age gap. Yeah.

Yeah, and there's 10 years between he and my next brother and then eight years between him and my sister. They were supposed to be done, but then I came along. Yeah. Big surprise. the biggest of a mom. Well, as it turned out, but it began with my, my oldest brother, who looked like a cherub. He's a beautiful, beautiful child. And a lady pulled up in a car. My mom and his name is Larry Joe, they were standing on a street corner waiting to go across to have a lot. Totally. Totally. I mean, I don't know how many people will believe it if I

ever get off my button, my memoirs. But so, you know, she pulls over the car, she hands them on her card and says, is this little boy in pictures? And she said, no. Pictures. Pictures.

Moving pictures. Yeah, we'll go way back. And she goes, well, he should be. He's beautiful. And they're looking for a little boy just like this. Have him at Box Studios tomorrow at 4 o'clock. My name is Lola Moore. And, you know, This is my card.

I'm an agent. And so, you know, take him on this audition. I think he'd be perfect. So, you know, mom goes to lunch. She's having lunch with her mother. And her mother says, oh, I've been praying for this. He's too beautiful. I wish I had a grandmother praying for me to be in movies.

Yeah. She was a good prayer. So she was thrilled. He's like, well, you know, there's an answer to a prayer. And you must take him. And mom goes home. tells my dad, my dad says, no way. No way. So no stage parenting here. Just strictly like something from the sky. My dad used to bribe me every season to quit Brady Bunch. We'll get there.

Okay. So he's like, no way, no, that's not happening. And mom goes, oh, come on. He's not a professional. Yeah. I'd love to see what the inside of a studio looks like. This is Fox. It sounds like a fun adventure. Yeah. And he goes, well, okay. So she goes and then my brother ends up walking out of the audition with the script in hand, and he has the part in a movie called Happy Land with Don Amici and Francis D. Yeah. Wow, okay. Not insignificant.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Well, so he starts working all 10 years go by and my next brother was born. And for lack of a babysitter or something, mom takes him on the seven. My brother Larry is working. I see where this is going. Oh, yeah. A director or producer walks on the set,

takes one look at my brother Chris, who is 14 months old and says, that baby, he has a mouth like Gene Tierney. I need a child to play Gene Tierney's son for this movie called The Iron Critton. Gene Tierney, he was discovered standing in the universal tour line. Really? Did you not know that? No, I did not. She was 16, 17. They literally discovered her standing in the line. Oh, my gosh. Wow. And if I'm wrong, it might be Ava Gardner, but I'm pretty sure Jean Tierney was discovered the same way.

Wow. Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of jobs. Drugstore. Oh, yeah. Then Lana Turner and all that. Yeah. I mean, that's how it happened. That was how the magic happened back then. So he started. Oh, I didn't want to. And then my sister came along. And, of course, my dad was putting his foot down saying, no, no, but my mom won. And so he started working. Your parents made some TV ready babies because they did. They had cute kids. And my brother Chris is most known for, he played the child in the man who knew too much. Okay.

With Jimmy Stewart and Doris Day. I don't remember that one. Yeah, Alfred Hitchcock. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And he was the first person to record K. Sarah, Surrah. Yeah.

Yeah. So then my sister comes along. She gets discovered to be in a commercial or something. This is like it's almost too good to be true. I know. I know. Nobody will ever believe it. And she was almost in the sound of music. But I came along, the big surprise package. And I don't know, my sister still says that she jinxed it because she didn't want to have to go to Europe when mom was having to. having a baby. So anyway, so she didn't do that, but she did, she did several pilots for TV shows, and one of them sold, and she would have been on a TV show. But it was starring Ann Southern, and the sponsors, I think it was Colgate, told her to lose 10 pounds, and she told them where to go, and no more TV show. So my sister got really frustrated by that and said, I don't want to do this

anymore. And so my mom, and in the meantime, I had gotten picked, you know, discovered to do like some commercial. You did a commercial when you were like a baby, right? Yeah, 14 months. Do you know how much you made as a baby? No. Probably five dollars. I mean, we got, we didn't get paid much on Brady Bunch. Um, so anyway, my sister wants out. My brother Larry has gotten married and, you know, he's out of the business. Chris's out of the business. And so mom takes me out and says, I'm going to have a normal life. Everything's going to be perfectly fine. I'll bake cookies, go to the PTA. And when I'm five years old in kindergarten, a talent scout from the Pat Boone show. I mean, you know, and it's my grandmother all the whole while. Full disclosure,

my father hated Pat Boone, but I just need to pick that out there. Every time Pat Boone came on the screen, my father would go into a rage. Really? He hated Pat Boone. It was like an obsession. Wow. Well, I can kind of see that. You're just triggering a particular memory in my mind.

I can kind of see that because I like Pat Boone, you know. But he did these very tame versions of good songs. I think my father was a musician, so I think that's what set him off. There you go. I think it was his version of Tootie Fruity. Yes. I was thinking of that specifically. Yes.

Okay. See, you got a good psychic thing going on, right? Yeah, we do. Come on. We do. So anyway, I get picked to sing a song on the Pat Boone show. Do you remember the song? Yeah, I'm a believer by the monkeys.

Wow. Yeah. But, no, that's a good one. Yeah, and I guess I got picked because I would do all the background instruments. Like, I'd try to sing those along with the lyrics. You know, we were trying desperately. find it now and here's another psychic well maybe not a psychic thing but a magical thing okay when it was supposed to come on well i screwed up i screwed up the lyrics and i and i was devastated i mess this

up and pat and say well start over again i'm like no no can't do that is live tv yeah so i didn't sing the song and yeah i'm just like it's like we're on the word or line of trauma and and and sort of Andy Kaufman-esque, you know, performance. I was just like, no, I don't get another chance. That's kind of a weird thing to ask a seven-year-old kid to sing, I'm a believer. Well, I got picked because I sang it well. But it was kind of a tricky song. I wasn't at, I mean, that's what I did when they called me in.

I was in kindergarten and they wanted to see kids. Did you have musical training? No. Okay, just natural. No, but we all have, we all had a good year. Yeah, I mean, it's, music tends to run in the family or not. Yeah, it does. And plus I was doing all the doodily, doodoo doodoo do so I guess it was really cute, but I'll never know.

But you know what? As somebody who likes this stuff, it's amazing what they keep finding. Yes. I would love to find my sister's pilot for the TV show that she did because we don't have any film on her. You know, we've got plenty on me. Like recently there was something like a like a pink. Floyd clip or something of them on TV in 67 that was considered forever lost. And somebody found it and was able to kind of color correct it.

So after 50 years, here's suddenly this clip, you know. So those things do tend to pop up. I would love that because I produced a special called Brady Bunch Home Movies. And we tried to find a lot of old things that we were told were definitely lost. But if they showed up, that would be great. So anyway, when I was mortified to see it on TV because I go home and my mom's going, Why didn't you sing it? Why didn't you start over?

Why can't? So the day came for it to air. And of course, we have to go over to my mother's friend's house and everybody's gathered around the TV and I'm just, I'm mortified. Yeah, I'm like, please God, let there be an earthquake or a fire of something. So I don't have to watch this. Well, there was an earthquake? No, but President Johnson came on and said that we, I think we had invaded Cambodia.

So you were saved? Yes. But maybe that's why there are no copies exists. It could be. Yeah, it could be because it never aired. Yeah, because it wasn't live TV. It was taped. So it never aired, and I thought I was really powerful.

I didn't think I was responsible for the Vietnam War. Hope, well, but I thought, wow, thank you. Thanks. I didn't have to see it. So, I'd be remiss to, recently I was in an Elvis doc that came out about Elvis's comeback, 68 special, and I was friends with his daughter, Lisa Marie. So I love all things Elvis. And I didn't know you, you had this uncredited moment in an Elvis film where you are singing. Yes. Yes. And at the time, It was his last film. It was kind of when it was getting really. Oh, it was.

You didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. The original. Is it the trouble with girls? Yes, it was originally titled Chautauqua. I wonder why he went. I wonder why he went back to rock and roll. And it was actually, it's considered one of his better ones.

And I was auditioning for a large role. And I would have had to sing and dance and all this stuff. Do you remember the auditions? Yes, I do. And at the time, I wasn't a fan of Elvis. Sure. But just because I love this stuff because I love old Hollywood. So what would be a typical audition on a picture like that?

Do they have you talk to you a bit? Are you on camera? Like, just walk me through a little bit of the audition process. Usually they would spend some time talking to the child to get to know if they were a brat or they were nice. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That's something that really needs to be done.

Then, you know, you would have your sides. You would have your scenes that you've memorized. And, you know, you want to be off book to impress them with how well you can memorize. And then in a case of like this, there was also a singing audition. So, and I remember, it was a Shirley Temple song, but not a real well-known one. Um, obscure, obscure temple. Yeah, yeah. Um, so, you know, my mother rehearsed me to death. Are you, are you, by nature, competitive? Are you competitive in this frame set? Are you just like having fun and it's a thing?

It's fun. Yeah. I, I didn't get competitive until later when, when Jody Foster was getting all the roles that I wanted. Yeah, I get that. Um, and maybe, maybe, maybe. a little before that because I definitely wanted a TV show, a series. I wanted a steady job. And I was, you know, very saddened. I did an episode of a show called Julia. Okay. With Diane Carroll, very, very ahead of its time show about a single mother working as a nurse. This is pre- Brady Bunch. Yes, yes. And I'm like, and I went, she was the nicest lady. And she took me into her dressing room and said, you know, anytime you feel, because there were two other boys on

the set. She said, you know, the boys are irritating you. You want any alone time. You can always come to my dressing room. And I'm looking around, she had all these posters for the show. All the posters had the two boys in them. I'm like, oh, they're not just

guest stars like me. They're on this show. Wow. And I went to my mother afterwards and she goes, they're series regulars. I want to be a Therife regular. I want a Ferry. And so she goes, okay, well, you go home, call your, call your agent. And I did. I want Ferry. Okay. At seven. Yeah. Okay. Well, actually, I was six because it was three days after my seventh birthday. We were in Las Vegas and vacationing. And the agent called and said, she has an audition.

They said, we're on vacation. She said, well, this is for a series. Oh, okay. This is for Brady. Yes, this was Brady, yeah. But in the meantime, I guess I'd been praying a little too hard because there was talk of gunsmoke. And I was also up for a nanny and the professor. I remember that, you know. And my grandmother, my magical grandmother. Another unrequited sexual tension between the nanny and the professor. Oh, yes, very much so. Yeah, I think that. Who was the professor? Was it Sebastian Cabot? No, no, he was a... That was the other show. Can't think of... Yeah, he was kind of good-looking guy.

Is it Bill Bixby? No, not that good-looking. He died young. A guy's doing a spit-take. What are you talking about, Susan? No, he's no longer with us. So I was free to say that. Yeah, Juliet-Mills was Nanny.

I don't remember. It was Richard something. But anyway, So my grandmother, with her magical thinking, comes to me. She goes, you know, whatever's best. And I sound very religious. I'm actually allergic to religion, but I believe a lot in God. And I was taught to pray.

And my prayers tended to come true. And so my Graham said, okay, now you have these three shows. And whatever's best. God will have whatever's best. happened, but it wouldn't hurt if you let him know which one you wanted most. So did you pick? Well, it was really, I knew I didn't want Nanny and the professor because there are only two other boys to play with.

And, but gosh, Brady Bunch, there's five other kids. But Gunsmoke has horses. Maybe Brady Bunch. Yeah. Yeah. So. Little did you know. So when you auditioned for Brady Bunch, was it Sherwood Schwartz?

Yes, Sherwood Schwartz, John Rich, who directed the first six episodes, and Arnold, Jack Arnold, who directed Creature from the Black Lagoon. That's what I knew him for. Sure. To me, that was his claim to fame. Yeah, that's not a bad claim to fame. No. If you're going to go down, I'll take it.

Yeah. There are a couple of other horror films. films that he did. But he was a co, he was a producer on Brady Bunch, and he had been a producer on Gilligan's Island, which Sherwood Shorts had done. So I walk in, it's three days after my seventh birthday. They asked me how old I am, and I told them that it had been my birthday, and they all sang happy birthday to me. And I thought, well, okay. I like it here. Yeah, these are good people. And I never had to do any scenes. I never auditioned as an actor.

They just wanted to see you. They wanted, and this was the genius of Sherwood. He rejected or resisted the network wanting to have a smart kid, stupid kid, fat kid. And he said, no, I want to find six interesting kids and build the show around them. Yeah, and knowing I was going to talk to you, and I mean, I saw every episode like, 40 times. It was the nature of Chicago television at that time. You know, like most people in the 70s, we had the four stations. Okay. And, you know, we'd be home from school and you guys were on, like, every day. Yeah. So we all saw those episodes, but I guess what I'm after is in watching

some of the stuff again, just to kind of put myself back in the headspace. Because I don't, I feel it's not fair to sort of rely only on my memory. God bless you. It's like, but it also reconnects you to sort of the three-dimensional experience. Yes, yes. Because time has a way of changing what you remember. Oh, yes. And the thing that really, really jumped out at me very, very starkly was the chemistry between the cast is just magical.

It's one of those things. I was lucky to talk to Mary Lou Hennor in the chair where you are. Same thing, taxi, right? Just something about a certain cast. Yeah. There's, they have an ensemble cast. They almost have a natural thing with each other. And it's almost, and it's not family.

So it makes it bizarre because it's like, how do you take strangers essentially, put them in a hopper and suddenly it just kind of clicks. Bands are similar to. Oh, yeah. Right? There's suddenly just, it's like, there's a rapport and you don't even know why. Yeah. And it's even more important with the band because, you know, you're improvising.

Well, but again, you're coming up with your own material. Sure, but I'm not doing the lines. In my elder years here, I've kind of come to this new conclusion that people watching anything, a show, I mean a live show, a television show, I think they read body language more than they read what's actually being, hear what they're actually being said. Something about the body language, I think gives more information. And I'll take it a little further into. Woo-woo. Okay, I love it. I think that people are far more psychic than they realize and or then they're given credit for. And people will ask me an age-old question, what made the Brady been successful? Like there's a new one. Yeah. And I say people are psychic and the love between us was genuine. Yeah. I mean, the only difference was we didn't fight as much as we did as the characters did on the show. Yeah. We really got a lot. long. So I do want to talk about the Brady bunch, but I'm interested in talking about a lot of other stuff. So we're going to, we're going to, we'll do a little parlor trick here. So September 26th,

1969 was the Brady premiere. And then the last show, where are we, my car on the card here, was called the Hairbrain Scheme. Oh, yeah. March 8, 1974. ABC cancels the show because ratings had gone down a bit. And you had a five-year run. Well, we also had a five-year contract that had to be renewed. And now we were asking for money. See, that's the real story. That's the real story.

Yeah. Now we wanted to be paid. They blamed it on the ratings, but it probably was a money thing. Bobby had a get-rich scheme, and Greg's hair turned orange. I was struck just as a quick thing. And I do want to circle back. But I was impressed, because here's just a partial list of people that were guest stars because I was struck by the idea that here you are, you know, between the ages of seven

and 12. And here are these people floating through your life at a very young age. Desi Arnaz Jr., Davy Jones of the Monkeys, Joe Namath, Imaging Coco, Vincent Price, Ken Berry, who obviously did a ton of Disney movies, Jackie Coogan, Jim Bacchis, from Gilligan, of course, and Mr. Magoo, Don Ho. Yeah. And Natalie Schaefer, who of course, played Miss. Mrs. Howell, yeah. Yeah. Were you conscious enough of the zeitgeist of the Times to sort of say, be like, oh, my God, it's Don Ho.

Yes, not Don Ho. I had no clue who he was, but I thought that his partner was really cute. What was he, blowing bubbles? Yeah, tiny bubbles. Tiny bubbles. Mm-hmm. Come on. And he sang the song, Sweet Someone.

But his friend, Sam Capoo, I think his name was. It was really cute. But Don was so nice. We went back. We did a return to Hawaii for the Travel Channel. I remember that. Really? Yes.

Really? You're one of the five people that saw it. Wow. That's maybe where we're here together. It was meant to be. I'm being rewarded. But Don was wonderful. And he gave me a set of Mai Tai glasses.

Okay. I just think it's cool because I've forgotten about the kind of the cross-cultural pollination that a show having a zeitgeist moment like the Brady Bunch did in those original series years. It gets into this like it becomes a snapshot of the America that I remember. Right. And we had the astronaut. Was Aldrin maybe? No, it was it was another one. Shoot, I can't remember.

And I was aware kind of of him. Wow. He's crazy. John Eymeth was adorable. So nice. And remains so nice. Yeah. Okay.

So jumping head, because before we circle back here, 12 years old, you're famous and the show is over. So what's your mindset at that? And by the way, you're entering those wonderful awkward years that we all get to go through. Well, surprising you should mention that. To some extent, I felt guilt because... Wait, guilt? Yeah, because I'd been praying for the show to be canceled.

Ah. Because I was going through those awkward years. Is it because people were recognizing you and... I... It's bad enough to go through your awkward stage and to feel really ugly, but doing it on national TV. is not something I wanted to do. Let me ask you a side question because I thought about this with you.

And I've known a few other people. There are names that you and I would know, and so would anybody watching. But I don't want to talk about them in that context. But there's something about being that famous at a young age that sort of changes the temperature of a person's life. It becomes a thing. I was famous in my 20s,

And I still feel at times this weird. That's pretty young. Yes, at the time I thought, oh, my God, I'm old and this is too late. But I'm saying there's still that thing that happens, whether you're 40 or 50 or whatever, you're walking through an airport. And somebody's like, they want to talk about something that happened 20, 30 years ago. So I have a hard time even imagining what that feels like to a young person who hasn't even had the time to kind of do their own version of it. Yeah.

So what the question I would ask you is, is do you think it's right? children work at that level in the entertainment industry? It's a difficult question because I actually teach children. And my attitude, and a lot of parents don't like this. Is it a school you have? It's a performing arts school. But can you tell us to that? It's vibe performing arts in Santa Clarita.

And it's mostly music. But we have acting classes. We do musical. voice acting. So you're in constant contact not only with children, but also the parents who are entering this difficult phase of, I want my child to be successful or even saying my child wants this or whatever the rationalizations are, right? And there are talent, like yourself, there are children that are talented.

Oh, there are children where it would be cruel to not let them. So that's kind of where you land? It is, because I fought for it. I had to fight my dad. because once, you know, my dad thought working was bad enough. But then we were going on concert tour, believe it or not. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.

And you made albums too. Yes, we did. And there was so much fame. And so me being gone a lot, like going on concert tour, bothered dad. And he thought it was too unnatural a life for me. And the fame. You know, having people come up to us. That level of fame.

Yeah. I mean, that's a level of fame, even I don't understand. The first time I was mock. Am I wrong? I mean, everybody recognizes you, right? Yeah, they did. Because back then people watched, if you watched one of the four channels back then, I mean, everybody really knew who you were. Yes. And by the way, with reruns that obviously you grew older, but I mean, you were still on television.

Right. You haven't been off television, right? Yeah. I mean, the Brady Bunch is one of those series that will never go off television. television. Well, I hope not. Especially now with fast channels. Well, I, and now, you know, streaming.

Yeah. I mean, hopefully it will always be around because I think it's always going to be good for kids. You know, what I thought made it so uncool when I was young. It's like, you know, now I'm a mother. It's like, oh, there's good stories. There are nice morals and, you know, teaching ethics. And so I think it's really, in fact, I tell my kids, my students, like, well, you should watch a show on telepaths. Come on, make them watch.

You have no idea how much it will help you in your parenting. Do you think, though, there should be some, for lack of a better word, is there a limitation that she, I know they have labor laws, but I mean, looking back, what would have helped you? More psychological support, more context, maybe a mentor that had been a child star that could at least voice for you. I understand how you feel. Like, what do you think actually would have helped? I really didn't have any issues with it. I was born strange and I wanted a strange life and I thought so hard to keep, that could be deceiving. I, you know, I was creative. It seemed like the right thing for me. There were aspects of it that I didn't like. But in dealing with parents, the wonderful thing is why I'm teaching now. it was different when I taught for a little bit in Hollywood.

And there, all of the parents were very serious. And they wanted their kids working. And it was like, ew. Here, I'm like, I had a parent come up to me and tell me that his daughter ordered in a restaurant with confidence like he'd never seen before. and he thought it was from the acting classes. I said it is. So it's more for them. The good outweighs the value, you think?

Yes, I do. Now, but what I honestly say to the parents, because we do get agents to come in and the kids will get signed, and I say, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing some work. Going to a set, then we'll find out that there's nowhere near

as fun as they think. Where I get concerned is fame. fame makes everything strange. And I think that when people are casting a TV show, and everything's so different now. But I used to say, if you're going to cast kids in a TV show, you want the TV show to be popular.

You want it to be a hit. So plan accordingly. Yeah, if you're going to do it, of course you want the best. So plan accordingly, and you audition those parents. You make sure that the parents have their heads on straight. Okay, that's interesting. Just because I look back at, and I've told this to people behind the scenes, people will ask, like, in the struggles that my band went through in the 90s, people will say, was there anybody that you guys could talk to? No. Was there anybody there who could give you good advice? No. In fact, they wanted us not to have good advice. Of course. They wanted to manipulate it in control the situation. So that's why I'm saying, maybe because I have young children nine and six.

I'm sensitive, you know, to this idea of like what it must feel like to kind of... Yeah, yeah. Because when you say fame, I don't know how it would register to someone on the other side of these cameras, but when you say fame to me, I know what it means. I mean, I really know that feeling of like, yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff and there's a lot of stuff that's like, there's no manual. There's no like, hey, here's the fame manual. Read page seven for what you're going through right now.

And so then to add that to a 12-year-old child. child going through puberty going through all the all the stages of child development that just seems like a really tough thing to navigate but and i think that was another reason why i wanted the show to end because back to your guilds well yeah and you like you you have a good prayer ability here i want to talk to you after i got some things i need to manifest i'm going to put you in charge in my manifestation department. People ask,

oh, it must have been so hard because you were so young. And I'm like, no. We had three age groups. We had Maureen and Barry. We had Chris and Eve. We had me and Mike. And going through it as the youngest, so much easier.

Because we had wisdom. You were the baby. We had wisdom. We, you know, we'd be a concert tour, whatever. and like to us fame was a joke. It's like there's all these people wanting to see us. Have they heard us? And, yeah, I mean, our egos were not thriving on it.

Whereas, you know, Morgan and Barry, they were just becoming interested in sex. And suddenly, I mean, Barry's up on stage wearing his fringe and he's got all these girls screaming. And he is a handsome man. I have, I have, I have, and then there was Chris who was such a late bloomer. But he, he was so popular with the girls that they made him sing a solo. Oh, oh. And they actually had Maureen singing for him backstage, which doesn't make any sense. That's so bizarrely.

Yeah, yeah, because she sounds like, you know, a mini mouse on helium. And, but the girls never heard because they're all screaming so much. Yeah. But Chris didn't like it. And he was so embarrassed by the fact that the girls would be screaming for him. Again, the word mortifying comes to mind. Yeah, but he got over that, though, eventually. I know there's some overlap here, but, okay, so yeah, the Brady, the show's canceled and you will this into existence.

No more Brady Bunch. It's your fault. But you're still doing, like, animated voiceover work. Well, no, that's pretty much. That ended when the show ended. Okay, I got the wrong information. The next thing, well, actually, boy, and this is a really, really lame tidbit, but we were still going to continue the music, but Barry wanted to do his own solo thing. And Maureen wasn't into it. And Chris, Chris stopped.

Chris quit before the show was canceled. We had a last appearance with Chris in Minutes. Minnesota. And because he hated it. He didn't feel like he could sing and he was right. And yeah, it was embarrassing to him. So yeah, at the time, it was like, oh, you're breaking up the band. But I thoroughly understand. But anyway, so the Brady three were going to go. The Brady three. That's got kind of a ring to it. Okay. Me, Mike and Eve. And, um, At that point, once again, I think I had power because we got this whole act done and we had costumes and I hated it. I thought it was horrible. I thought we were horrible and I really didn't want to do it.

And we got our booking agent who was Andy Williams' brother, Don Williams. And we never booked a single show. And I was just like, this is great. He couldn't book it or he didn't book it or? I don't know what happened, but it was just, please, please don't let us have to go out and do this. It's one of the things I love about this ability to have these conversations is, were you aware of the zeitgeist of the show at the time? I mean, obviously there's the fame. And what I mean by that is not that you didn't see 8,000 screaming kids in an auditorium somewhere.

Right. But did you have any sense that this thing would endure? Well, you know, the screaming kids that didn't happen until we went out, you know, with the music. And so we had been kind of sheltered. Sure. And growing up in Los Angeles, you know, everybody knows who you are, but they pretend like they don't care, which is great. Yeah, I do. I do find that out here. It's an interesting thing that happens. Yeah. And I love that. But so we didn't really know that we were that popular until we went out on the road. And I never had a sense of it being cool until years later. Okay. Because to me it wasn't cool. And I knew I wouldn't work until I turned 18. And then, you know, I got back in as an adult. And it was not.

It did not seem to be a good thing on the resume. Well, what's interesting now to me is pretend that the Brady Bunch had just happened in this world. And then fast-for-frey, like you'd be in a Netflix movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because that level of fame and that level of personal name recognition, somebody would figure out to put you in some crazy movie or a comedy or because they would want you. The TVQ. Yeah.

Back then, it was like this weird millstone around people's neck. It was. And also, you couldn't go from television to movies. It was verbatim. Yeah. And so to me, I think Bruce Willis, in my memory, was the first person that seemed to cross that barrier. Yes. Where a big TV star into, I know Tom Hanks did it, but it was sort of slow. That's true. Yeah. You got me there. But so, yeah. And when I, you know, I knew I wasn't going to work until I was 18 anyway. And what did you have available? Love Boat in Fantasy Island, which I refused to do. I wish you'd done Fantasy Island.

I said, no, these are horrible shows. I'll have nothing to do with them. If you're bored sometime, there's these great interviews of Ricardo Montaubon talking about how Hervey Village has gets so, his ego gets so out of control that he starts insisting that his trailer be as big as Ricardo Maltebonds. Oh, yes. Oh, tortured. I wish you had insight intel for me on fantasy. I'm sorry.

No. That's just my own. But I heard. I heard a lot about what was going on. Oh, yes, yes. And the dressing rooms are rocking, don't come a knocking. Really? Oh, yes.

Yes, Irvey got around. Quite a bit. I'm just going to leave that right there. I know you've done a, is it, it's a book or a, I can't, something about the variety hour. Yes, I, I, you did a book. Well, I'm one of three contributors.

I wrote the sidebars. Okay. To, um, but it is a book, right? I'm not crazy. Yes, it is a book. Okay. I'm saying this lovingly, but it, it seems from a distance of particular hell. Yes.

Especially at the time. I barely remember it. Like, it's like a faint thousand feet away memory, but watching it. I watched a whole show. Oh, did you? It was the one with Vincent Price. Oh, well, he was so, he was so nice. Rip Torn?

Rip Taylor. Rip Taylor. Yes. God bless you. Had the, I guess it was a way. The hell to pay. Yeah, right? The hell to pay.

Yes. I love the 70s. But I'm watching this. Okay, let me just, let me just, okay, first of all, I have copious notes on just this thing. So you have to take me through this. I highly recommend it's on YouTube. Oh, I please. The Brady Bunch Variety Hour.

Just watch the show where Vincent Price is the host. See, I think that's one of the lesser ones. There is, there's just a sketch that I think everybody should, everybody should see. Okay. Christopher Columbus sketch. Okay. Because it's Robert Reed doing broad, broad comedy and happy as a clam. He was loving it, having a great time.

But still, you go from this very successful series to now you're like in like a Vegas review or something. Does that fair? I think there are several people on YouTube that have said, you know, I thought this was a bad acid trip that I had. And I didn't realize it was real. And I've taken a lot of LSD. So I wouldn't want to put myself through that as well. I'm trying to say. Okay, so let's walk through some of the finer points that I noticed with my discerning eye. First of all, in the opening credits, there's kind of this dancing going on with these people.

I don't know. The Croftette. Thank you. Dancers, yes. Yes. There's a joke in there about crow's feet and the Brady father, he corrects himself. It's like a joke. Oh, okay. He calls them the crow's feet. He goes, oh, sorry, the croquette. Oh, my goodness. Anyway, so this is where it gets Barsar Land and right out of the box. Okay, so there's this Vegas stuff going on, and then they introduce you under your real names. You know what I see? In the opening credits.

Yeah, okay. Florence Henderson and like you get all. Yeah, okay. But we're still playing our characters. Yes. So you're introduced in the opening credits on a variety show where you then you're playing. Yes. we're still playing a family.

Yes. As if it's real. So just that alone is... So it's the Brady's from that sitcom. Now, for God knows what reason, have a variety show. By the way, by the way, put together by Sid and Marty Croft.

Okay. You want to talk about acid shrimp. Okay. Okay. Okay. First of all, can music, did you tape in front of nobody? Like, it sounds like, is anybody there? Our grand finale.

Our final song, usually a medley, we had an audience for that. Okay. But everything, canned laughter, canned, everything. Okay. On top of that, you have, correct me if I'm wrong, because this is the world you've inhabited for a long time. Fake Jan. Yes. There's Fake Jan.

Can you explain who Fake Jan was? Fake Jan is, and she was also parodied on the Simpsons. They had, because the Simpsons got a variety show. Exactly. Exactly. Fake Jan. I didn't know there was a fake Jan. Well, there's a Christmas Cindy and there's a fake Marsha. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Get the heck out. Tell everyone who fake Jan was. Okay, fake Jan.

Eve Plum had done Dawn Portrait of a Teenage Runaway, this TV movie that was huge and just broke her image and she was off to the races. She's going to have a great career. And she was contractually signed to do the same. sequel, which was called Alexander, the other side of Dawn. And so they replaced her. And it's kind of sad because Eve was enough of a team player that it bothered her. And even though I made, oh gosh, the one time that Florence Anderson gave me a look that I'm still shocked that I didn't turn into a pillar of salt. And if looks could kill. We were people, we, we, we, They were all talking about Eve and, you know, what's she doing, what this and that. And I said, don't we all wish we had something better to do them this show?

Wow. Wow. Well, Susan. This is like your 14-ish around here. 15, yeah. Okay, good. Okay. Carrying on. So you guys have an opening production number.

You're doing some. Which is usually something from the 1700s. Because there's no publishing to pay. So it's free. You're wearing orange jumpsuits. Yeah, the first one. There's a lot of bad dancing. I don't disrespect to your dancing ability.

And then for some reason, there's a built-in pool in the studio. Yes. So then it turns in this bugsy Berkeley thing where the Vegas dancers who aren't connected to the family at all, the Croft. ette. Croftet, sorry. Croftet, I'll remember that. So then they're diving in the water. Yeah, I'm trying to think what their name was when they were swimming.

But, you know, they're doing like the weird water dancing. Oh, yeah. And then they cut back to you guys doing your weird 1700s song. Well, now remember, Sid and Mighty Croft also had a show called The Donnie and Marie show. And they had a skating rink. So they had the skating rink and we had the pool. Okay. And then if that's not enough for you, LSD lovers, here comes H.R. Puff and Stuff is part of the show.

Yeah. But okay. And then there's like this weird segment where you're all sitting on like a long bench and you're talking as Brady characters. But you have this natural rapport because you know each other so well. And then it goes out of there like the bad can lines like I'm really mad at you, Peter. Oh, yeah. And then it goes to like a skit. Like a film skit.

Yeah. Like a sitcom skit. Yeah. But not as well produced as the Brady bunch. Right. It's still videotaped and it's very obviously videotape. But like, you know, but that's, see, that's the Brady's doing their variety show where they're doing skits. But then they have the at home moments and now we're living at the beach.

And Rip Taylor is our real estate agent and he and Alice, boy, they hit it off. So she's done with Sam the butcher and she's. Oh, she's in love now. And despite this madness that I was watching at 6 a.m. this morning, the chemistry of you all is, other than fake Jan, God bless her, the chemistry of all is totally intact. Yeah. There's so much money there to be had with you all. You have this incredible kind of weird. I don't even know. It's like you really are a family somehow or you became one. Yes. Yes. And yet. We never had to live together.

So we didn't get on each other's nerves. And I think anytime that they get us together and let us be ourselves, like the HG TV show, it's always good because we have that. It's the most unusual relationship. And then for us kids, we did grow up together. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And we know, like, when I was producing my special Brady Bunch Home Movies, I, I, I, I, I, started crying when I was pitching it. I said, we all know that there's only five other people on the

planet that will ever really know what our childhoods were like. Yeah. That is fascinating. And if we, if one of us were to die, we would all lose a limb. See, everyone from the outside sees it outside in and you all see it inside inside. It goes this way, not this way. That's fascinating. Okay, a few guests that appear. on the variety show. Donnie and Marie. Tony Randall, Lee Majors and Fairfosset, Milton Burr, Pearl. Yes. Tina Turner. Charles, who I'm trying to interview. Oh. Do you know Charles? She's lovely, yes. I'd love to interview, John. Edgar Bergen with Charlie McCarthy. Red Fox.

And believe it or not, a man I actually was in the studio with today, Paul Williams. Oh. I wrote a song. He introduces the Christopher Columbus sketch. Okay, there is our kismet for the day. And here's a little factoid. So in doing my research, Robert Reed, Brady, father, was born in the town that I live in in in Chicago.

Really? The only other famous person born in my town is Grace Slick of the Jefferson Airplane. Oh, wow. And he was born in the town I live in, which is Highland Park, Illinois. Wow. It's one of those things when you, you know, you're doing something, you look and you go, wait, am I reading? Yeah. Gosh, and that's not a common town.

It's a bucolic suburb up the coast in Chicago. And then was raised on a turkey farm. Did not go. Away from the city. I did not know that. Florence Henderson obviously had this kind of, I guess you would call a more obvious professional career, pre-Bradie and hesitated taking the role for the fear that we talked about before, which is this idea of typecasting.

And her resume is fairly impressive coming in. Oklahoma, Fannie, Sound of Music, but, you know, like a touring cast. But still. She was Broadway, you know. Yeah, like, yeah, that's not, that's an elite crew of people. Yes. That's not for the faint of heart to do those eight shows a week. We've talked about how you and the other kids in the cast sort of reacted to the pressures.

In the case of the Brady father and the Brady mother, they're professional, you know, they have a career and obviously would look at it differently. Did you sense, did they feel boxed in by the whole thing? Or was it? Because some people that I, that I've talked to, they default to, hey, a working actor is a happy actor. And, you know, I just go on until there's no more job and then I go on to the next job. Yeah. It's funny because there are those two different ways of looking at things. I'm friends with Eric Roberts who will just work. And he doesn't he have this rep now? He's like the, he's like the most working actor ever or something. I saw an article recently. They said he literally will take anything and everything and he's got, he's gained this rep as the,

is the most working actor in Hollywood. Okay. Yes. And but I understand it. Once I got to know him, a little. I mean, it's not like we're best friends. But he was trained at the Royal Academy in England. Now, that is the British mindset. If you're not working, you're not acting. So you see a lot of British actors. They'll do jobs that are beneath them, but they'll do it because they need to be working. Whereas an American actor will go, see, if I take that, it might typecast me or, you know, I can't do TV because then I can't do movies or whatever. So, being that Bob was educated at the Royal Academy as well, I would think that he was kind of of the mindset

that he wanted to just keep working. I don't know that he felt, well, I don't know that any of them really felt that they were hemmed in. Because for Florence, her first love was music. So she would go on to, well, she hosted some shows. Yeah, there's all these clips of her singing. And I mean, that's that that was what she loved to do. She would do a Vegas act.

And so it didn't really hamper her from doing those things. But I'm sure that Bob did not get the serious roles that he wanted. Sure. Not to project on you because, again, you know, it's television. But they're the adults that you're intimately around every day. And I'm not saying they took on the role of parents, but there's a surrogacy there. Yes, there is.

How do you, now that you're a parent yourself and, you know, we've been blessed to have a longer life, how do you view how they, I say more interested in how they were with you, like, do you look back fondly on? Very much so. And this is why I'm teaching kids today. I want to pay it backward because I had at least three, many more, but at least three. castmates who were wonderful. I remember Robert Reed talking to me about cartoons with the very same respect that he would discuss Shakespeare with one of his peers. I tended to speak like I was 40 years old when I was seven and it was cute, but I often didn't get taken seriously or I'd get

laughed at and um and was always very good about when come here honey because i'd be asking are we going to are we going to cut at that point and pick it up later or are we going to go straight through and i'm seven you know and they they you know they all just laugh and come here honey we're going to go straight through on this thing and then later on when we do the close-ups we'll blah blah so you know and like oh come here honey And she didn't like kids when she started the show. And I'd like to think that would change. Just, oh, you know, who wants to be bothered with kids on a set?

Most actors really don't. You know, they don't want to work with kids or animals. And, of course, that's my favorite. But, you know, for me, people were so good and so kind. Ken Curtis, playing Festus, so kind. my mother was very aware of who the good grownups were. And a person's value as an actor depended on how well they treated her kid. So Spencer Tracy was a schmuck. And Jimmy Stewart was outshined by Robert Reed. I heard a myth when I was a kid that I might be loosely related

to Spencer Tracy. Really? Yes. Hmm. Quite an actor. Unconfirmed. I have a lot of rumors about my my bloodline. It's a parlor game to do these types of things, but if you hadn't been an actor at such a young age, who do you think you would have turned out to be, you know, would you have been the same person, then by extension, what do you think you would have wanted to do with your life? I probably would have still gotten into art because I, that was the first thing I knew I could do. And it was always kind of a first love.

But I have the feeling that I still would have loved film as like the ultimate medium because it involves writing. To make film or be in film? To make film. I would have gone to film school, which is something I kind of wish that I had done. It's not too late. I'm 63. People are living a long time these days. My grandmother lived 103.

Oh, well? The thing is, I was considering USC. And it just, it never, and I don't understand why it didn't click into my head because I was going to go into the drama department there. And then I went, why would I spend all that money? Because it's my money. I've got my trust fund. I'll go to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which is about a tenth of the price. Why it never occurred to me that what I really wanted to do was to go to the third.

film school at USC. That was the right place for film school. But is it just because you're in the expectation of, I've done this, I've had success. Kind of. And I think I was trying to please my mother. I think my mom really wanted me to be an actress. And it wasn't until I was 23 and I booked a gig. Oh my God. I hate acting. I don't want to act. What was the gig? It was an episode of Divorce Court. And I played a porn star who had incestuous relations with her brother. And, um... That's something really perverse about you being from a TV family.

Yeah. Yeah. Playing it in another show. Yeah. That's a bit of a weird meta take. Yeah. And I had this little habit of going on auditions and just killing it, doing a great first read.

And then, you know, as, as I got closer and closer to the role, I would self-sabotage. And I didn't know that was what I was doing. until I came out of the first audition with the script in my hand going, I got it? Oh, no. Can you give me what would be a form of self-sabotage in that? Just sucking, you know, just going back on the audition and not doing a good job. Yeah.

And even being nervous and letting the nerves get to me. I mean, you've been on camera for. Yeah, but I went through a period of time where I was really, really full of stage fright. just filled with it. I was like 30 and did not want to do it. Sunny Bono was very kind to me because I was going through all the stage fright. Before doing a skit that we had to do on this 70s celebration thing. But you think that maybe would have been a result of kind of left over. You know, because, you know, it's like when you throw a kid into something early and they don't really know what they're being thrown into, they learn a certain bravado.

Yes. My son being okay with being on a roller coaster when he was five, now he doesn't want any way. Yes. Johnny Osmond went through it too. Okay. And, I mean, he had been going on stage since he was five. He was at a stage right thing. Yes.

Yeah. He developed horrible anxiety. So, you know, it happens. But I, and, you know, I got home. I knew I had to do the gig. But I called my agent. I said, I want out. And I called my teacher.

I was going to, I was taking classes with Harry Master George. It was a wonderful class to a lot of people that ended up winning Oscars. And I said, I, you know, this isn't for me. When you, when you approach a subject that's so institutionally over-observed, we've had the books, we've had the reunions, we've had the, you know, the VH1 look back, whatever, you know, you've been in that thing for now, gosh. if the show ended in 72 when we 50-something years of people talking about it, thinking about it. And obviously there were other things that happened. But I mean, the core original series is the thing that people focus on. It's where the memories lie.

And not to be judged in jury, I found myself thinking like, okay, what is the value of this thing? I mean, I accept that it's a cultural, institutional thing of American culture. Like it belongs in the Smithsonian. And there's even down to Sherwood Shorts making the decision, it was two divorcees who had putting their families together. I was in the same situation, you know. So it was familiar to our generation, you know, that was watching at home. But I started thinking, like, what's the real takeaway here? Like, I get it.

I think it's cool. And in fact, I meant to tell you, I don't remember. Remember there was the, it was like there was a play in Chicago that started the Brady plays. Yeah. Well, that was. Real live Brady Bunch. Okay. That was two or dollars down from where I was working.

So I knew all those people. And I was there literally when it started. They would come in the record shop where it was working. They were saying, oh, we're going to do this thing. So I went and saw some of the early performances. And I thought, this is so fun. Yes. And it took off, you know, it became like a thing.

It was way fun. We had in L.A., Chicago and New York. Sure. So, I mean, I was literally there at Ground Zero of this other weird, varying sense of this. Yeah. So, but I, I guess what I'm trying to explain to you, artist to artist is, I'm sitting here thinking this morning, you know, 6 a.m. like about the Brady Bunch, but it's like, why does this matter

to me? And even for anybody watching saying like, okay, but it's cool, but like, why are you talking about the Brady Bunch 50 years later? Like, how does it really register for some goth musician, you know? And I think I found the key, and I'm curious for your take, and maybe it's nothing you would even recognize. I think so many kids of our generation were latchkey kids. And something about watching this fake family, which I know in its own way became a family, it was like we wished we were in that family because we didn't have that.

And I'm sure you've heard variations of that. And it gives me chills thinking about it because you're a little kid, you're nine years old, you're watching the basement or whatever, you're watching a rerun, whatever. And, you know, you think it's corny. And, you know, there's the famous episodes and all that stuff. It's good fun.

But I think the sustain in it is we recognize something that was really vital that maybe even the show's producers and writers wouldn't even not understood, that there was this whole generation of kids alone in basements and in front of televisions like we were, going, well, gee, that looks a lot more fun that what's going on here, you know, whether we were, I like to make this joke, you know, we were abandoned by our baby boomer parents who were too busy doing yoga and cocaine.

That's my joke. But, you know, it was a very selfish generation. And there's the term latchkey comes from the fact that we were, we'd come home to an empty house. That was normal. You know, it wasn't even a big deal. So what becomes your parent, the television? Yes.

So on one hand, you have this idyllic, you know, like I said, Eric Estrada writing down. the, you know, the hair blowing and everything looks so amazing and all of it, you know, even the, you remember like Battle of the Network stars and all this like, you know, there's the stars in reality. The circus of the stars. That was awesome. Now you're going deep. Now you're going deep.

Because they really did cool stuff. Did you ever do any of those? No, I wasn't asked, but it was amazing to me because they would actually get good at these things that were dangerous. Anyway, my harp here is that I think that's why. it's warm in my heart and why I wanted to talk to you because there's something there that's a lot more powerful than whether or not somebody likes the show or doesn't like the show. Zykeist moments happen in our culture for reasons that are a lot more complicated than what it

appears to be on the surface. So somehow you all kind of represented this happiness or this warm. And it was a need. It's an emotional need. Weird, right? And I, if I, it never would have crossed my mind unless I knew I was going to talk to you. I had to actually process it. I did go, and I've spent a couple times with Barry, and I've talked to Barry on the phone, Barry Williams. Super sweet. What a nice person and cool guy. But even then, hanging out with Barry, I was more struck in the case of Barry, like, he seems to kind of like made peace with the whole thing. Like, I literally was walking down the street with him, and so he's like, oh, my God, you know what I mean? You know how that goes. It's like, it's not your real name, but that's who they think you are, right?

But talking to you, I think it was like it all kind of came back. Like, wow, I remember thinking like, gee, I wish I was in that house. Yeah. It looks a lot more fun and sweet and cool. Well, that's why, because you're absolutely right. And there are countless people that have come up to me and said that show literally saved my life. That's such, I mean, it makes warms my heart because I don't feel alone in this. No, you're not alone at all.

And when I first became really proud of the show is when I found out that child psychiatrists were using it. They were using episodes for kids that were coming from horrible abuse. And, you know, I would have thought, well, why would they want to see this perfectly good family? They do. They want to see somebody being happy. They want to see that there's hope. Yeah.

And I realized probably in my 20s that the beauty of the show is that it was written from a child's perspective. I mean, Cindy Liz's her doll. Well, everybody cares. The whole house is up in arms about it. They have a mock trial for Bobby. If I lost something, they said tough. Yeah, right. Right.

Exactly. You know, I'm dad's calling, you know, home from work. Well, did you find Cindy's doll? And so it's a fantasy. It's not realistic, but that's the fantasy the kids want. But that's why those Disney movies are so powerful. It's not about reality. It's about a destination.

And when you don't have a destination, if somebody gives you one, it's like a water or something, it's like give it to me. Okay, so last thing, because your time in that show is so oft explored. but this is my indulgent question in that. So a few things. Where did you guys shoot the show? What lot? Paramount Studios.

Okay, Paramount. What was a, obviously you're young, so there were probably some labor laws, but what was a normal week of shooting, you know? In the beginning, it was crazy. We were trying to do a show every three days. When things calmed down and we had a real rhythm, It was you got your, you got a script, a new script on Friday. You had the weekend to look it over, read it. Monday there'd be the table read, start rehearsing, start filming Tuesday.

Okay. And so it would take a week, you know, once we had the budget to put a little time into the shows, and we had a week to film. Yeah. And, you know, of course, we're also, we tried to film as much as we could during the summer so that we wouldn't have to go to school. But we had to go to school on the set. We had to have three hours of school.

Yeah. So that could be rough. You know, the teachers, everybody's pretty kind and mindful. If, you know, if you had a difficult scene, it's okay. The math test can wait. You know, you just think about what you need to do. Okay. So last indulgent thing.

How indulge all you want. No, but God bless you. So sometimes I have these dreams, right? And it's like I'm backstage somewhere with the band. And, you know, it's like there's an atmosphere. And so my version of the dream is, you know, somewhere in the ether, there's you at eight years old on that set. But you were actually there.

It's not a dream, you know. So give me something of what it was like to be on that set. Did you think it, like, like I'm sort of fascinated where sometimes you go places. And, you know, in your mind, it's one thing. And then you see like the paint is scuffed. Oh. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

You saw our living room floor. It was cigarette butts all over the place. Right. That's kind of what I'm after. It's like you actually stood in this dream place. Yeah. This magical mid-modern, whatever it was with the staircase and the thing. The AstroTurf lawn hurt.

I was always wearing these short dresses. So I skin my knees many times on that AstroTurf. And you mentioned that the house, one of the fun things about the house was being able to have people walk into the house. We redid it. You know, like, built it with HGTV

and watching people walk through those doors. Oh, that's right. You guys... Yeah. Watching them turn into a nine-year-old. I don't care who they were. They instantly turned into a child. And I thought we should do a talk show because it'd be like getting the guest drunk.

We get them in. They'll be all vulnerable and sweet and ice. That would be me. That would be me. Oh, thank you so much. I love talking to you. Oh, thank you.

So fun. Anytime. Awesome. Thank you.