The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Wolfgang Van Halen | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Billy Corgan sits down with Wolfgang Van Halen for a candid and far-reaching conversation about music, identity, and forging a creative path in the long shadow of one of rock’s greatest legends. Wolfgang opens up about his drive to earn every opportunity on his own merits, reflecting on the dual realities of carrying a famous name and longing simply to be recognized as a credible musician. He talks about his musical foundation—from pounding out blink-182 drum fills to honing a powerful and versatile lead vocal style—and how those early passions shaped the sound of Mammoth. He dives into the band’s whirlwind experiences supporting Metallica, the importance of maintaining a rock-solid live show without backing tracks, and the reality of navigating public scrutiny in the hyperconnected era of social media. Along the way, Wolfgang shares personal memories of his father, Eddie Van Halen, explaining both the encouragement and quiet expectations that fueled his ambition and helped him endure the commentary and comparisons that inevitably follow him and much more.Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I want to earn this. Yeah. I don't want to be given anything. Right. You know. I don't know why people aren't willing to give you that opportunity. I find that annoying. It's a really funny put down of like you'll never be your dad.

And when it's like, no, I'm not. And nobody else ever will be. I would rather make my own name, unfortunately, when I have the name Van Halen. It's a bit tough to do. All right. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having.

It's our first time meeting. Yeah. I'm glad to cross past with you. Of course. So, you know, I'm doing my typical research. March 16th, 1991. I'm March 17th, 1967, fellow Pisces. Yeah, my wife is the day before me as well.

They say if you can couple with your sane sign, that's the best relationship you can have. Well, I guess they're right because it is. You better say that right here. Absolutely. Recently married. Congratulations on being married. I think that's awesome. as you know or you're learning success and love at the same time is super valuable absolutely it's

nice to have somebody that you can you know trust it gets a little complicated at times to figure out right i've had a lot happened in my life in the last you know six years so i haven't i haven't heard any about that maybe we can poke around on it yeah so yeah you've had it's nice to have somebody i can just kind of trauma dump, I guess, to a certain extent, but also share it with. I, when I was in my, you're how old now, 30? 33. 33. You know, there's a lot of the years of my life where there was all these incredible things going on musically, but because I didn't really have something to come home to,

it doesn't mean I didn't have a relationship, but it wasn't anything I look forward to. It's like a black hole in my mind. Totally. It's like, this gig, this gig, and then it's like, Blank. Then to the next one. Yeah, because when you find that work-life balance, it's super valuable. And I found it really late in life.

I mean, I'm 57. And it's like, no one's more shocked than me that I'm in happy marriage and have children. And so I wish all those things for you. Thank you very much. So everybody in the world wants to talk to you about your pop. And I promised you we weren't going to talk. I'm used to it, though. No, but here's the thing.

I would be happy to talk about him with you because you've actually, interviewed him before so thank you i did have that honor but my point is is and i when i when i texted you thanks to our mutual friend ross health and i really want this interview be about you he stressed that as well so i he great great no because i because i listen we deal in a world where it's click bait and low-hanging fruit and um yeah if you if you if you'll trust me is not the right word if you if you let me kind of get there i think you'll understand why i'm talking about the things I'm talking about. It's just letting you know, as we say in wrestling, I'm not swerving you.

So here I am in about 97. I'm at 5150 with your father. Sammy's recently left the band. Guitar World, who the interview was with, I pitched them. I said, I want to interview Eddie. And they were like, why? And I said, because he's one of the greatest musicians in the world. and I feel that Van Halen isn't really getting its respect from the alternative world.

Van Halen really stands outside a lot of these other bands that got swept aside in the in the grunge era. I think I know you know your grunge world music, right? Yeah. So I was like, I really want to introduce Van Halen and Eddie to an audience that maybe you wouldn't understand why Van Halen is so valuable to the alternative community. We're just guitar players in general. Hello? Yeah. Hello. I mean, come on, everybody.

Yeah. You know? So I think it was Brad Toulinski was the editor of the time. He was so nervous about the interview. He flew out to make sure I didn't ask your father any of the wrong questions. And your father was amazing with me. And I have this memory. And it came back to me today because I was listening a lot of your music in prep for the interview.

Wow. And, you know, there's a kind of. beautiful high-readiness to your voice. Like, you have a lead singer voice, you know what I mean? Thank you very much. And as your father felt more and more comfortable with me through the interview, and I'll tell you how I think he got comfortable. Because I didn't get the feeling he was sitting around listening to Smashing Puppets,

which was okay. I was just honored to be there in interviewing with him. And, you know, how your dad was. This is a cigarette and a guitar, you know, er, you know, like so. And I'm chasing around. But at some point he said, uh, it plays something?

Sure. He goes, and he kind of does the thing. But before you hear it, it's me singing. Now, I've heard your father sing 8,000 times, but always in harmony. Not a lot of people realize that the tone of the Van Halen harmonies

is very much half him. Okay, but I didn't know that. Could you hear Michael a time? Oh, yeah, he's the, and he's wonder, Mike's incredible, but you don't realize the other half of that. Okay. So I had this, and I'm getting chills, think about it because huge, I mean, Van Halen, come on. So he plays me this song and I go to, and I listen to it and he wants to know what I think.

And I go, okay, well, first of all, you have an alternative voice. You know, he's like, what does that mean? You know, and I go, you sound like somebody who'd be in a grunge band. He has a cool voice. It's like, it was shocking. And I was like, wow, your voice. is cool. Like, why do you sing?

Oh, guitar, you know what I'm. The other moment, and this is where I think he became comfortable with me and why he was willing to play me some of these things, was, you know, he's, you know better than anybody. He'd sit there and just play, and he'd sit there like, how the hell is he? It was, I mean, it's shocking. I saw your dad back in the day, 84, the last two are the original lineup.

I sat there and studied it all like every other nerd. But when you're like this, as far away as you are and he's playing, you're like, holy mother of God, how do you play like that? And as he's talking and he's smoking and he's taking jokes and you're like... Second nature, yeah. Okay. So he does this. He goes, you play right.

And I go, yeah. He goes, play. And he hands me that guitar or whatever. Nothing worse than being a musician. And somebody's saying, you play right. No, no, no. All due respect, he's your dad. Eddie Van Halen, hey, play the guitar.

Let me see what you got. So I'm like, holy, what am I going to play him? And I'm not going to play Van Halen. So I just like, I got nothing to lose. So I just started playing. And he goes, you can play. I think you thought it was just some alternative creed. You know what I mean?

So after he saw that I could play the guitar, the conversation went totally different after that. And then we were talking about music and amps. And so he really opened up. And I think that's what led to him playing that song. But as it pertains to you, hearing you sing, it's like today listening, it was like, oh, yeah, that's that connection. I remember that voice. And I think, you know, obviously there's a lot of focus on your guitar playing and your music, but I think what's really getting lost in is your very good lead singer. It's very kind. Did you, because you sounded me like somebody who, you know, not everybody can just be a good lead singer. Is that something you practice? It came naturally.

I'm sort of curious. I have no idea. I've always been able to sing. But when it came to Mammoth and its inception, I was not sure if I could. could do it. I wanted to. Right. But it took my, my producer, Elvis Baskett, to really push me. He's like, I can hear it. I know you can do it. Wow. You just need to figure it out. Yeah. That's why I think, you know, doing that first album took like three years of just kind of recording on and off to figure out who I was. Okay. Eventually found it. But I think coming back to the second album after touring for a year,

is where I really found it, I think. Okay. Just kind of being on the road and doing it. I mean, you're very credible lead singer, you know what I mean? And as somebody who plays guitar and sings for a living, it's not something that just happens. It's a lot of... Yeah, it's a lot of... R&D is the old word, you know, research and develop it. Part of your narrative at this point in your life, and before I say this, because I think it's important, I think your future is so exciting because you're at the perfect age,

maybe a little later than most people would have started. Yeah, I feel like it's a little late almost. I don't think so. I wish I was 23 instead of 30. Sure, sure. And I wish I was 23 too. But my point is in the new world, again, remember the world I grew up in, 50 was like, you're done. Even they would ask the stones like, you're done, right? And here we are. They're in their 80s. Still doing it. So it's not unreasonable to think that you, if you want, you have 30 plus years if you want it. So this kind of hyperbolic venting that goes on around you, I find really kind of creepy.

You know what I mean? Because, you know, I've known children of famous people. Lisa Marie Presley was a close friend of mine. And there's other people I don't want to talk about. But at least in particular, you know, I helped Lisa at one point. She was recording and she had an amazing voice. She had that Elvis kind of hoo. Yeah.

I mean, that's like genetics, right? It's like, hello. And, you know, she had her father's good looks and all that stuff. And it was really, really hard for her to escape the shadow of Elvis, you know. I'm the individuality. Hello. I mean, Elvis, you know. And she looked like Elvis.

This is, you know. So my point of saying this to you is I'm absolutely convinced that if your father, By the way, as a guitar player, Father casts a shadow on all of us. I remember being in my bedroom as 16 going, I can't play. I'm on fire, but I'm going to try. Right? You know? Yeah. With Michael hitting that. Very high. God bless him. Yeah. It's all sense memories, right? If people aren't convinced that you are going to step out of that long shadow,

I am convinced that you will. That's very kind. And it would be, it's a little bit dramatic me, like, you're out of the shadow. No, musical geniuses cast a big shadow. The fact that he's your father is certainly part of your story. But we live in the music business. Okay. Anybody who picks up a guitar, it's like, well, are you as good as Zach Wild or Randy Rhodes or Jakey Lee? Yeah, it's a tough thing about like, are you as good as?

Because, like, I got to tell you funny story, I keep going. Yeah, like you don't need to be the best to write something that can resonate with somebody. I feel like any time I, you know, anytime a video of me goes viral of me doing a solo or something, there's always people going like, single hand tapping, let's, you know, and it's like, I'm not trying to do something complicated. I'm just doing something that I enjoy that I think sounds good. Well, let's let's give some information for the nerds. I'm going to give it from my perspective.

I did see, because I think. it sort of dovetails into it. The song, I'm all right. Now, whether it's true or not, was it, I saw where something about you were reacting to people's kind of constant negativity. Is that accurate? Yeah, I think maybe that song, if more compared to any other Mammoth song, is certainly a criticism of people's sort of plan they have for me without taking my feelings into consideration. Don't you think it's kind of weird that people expect you to sound like Van Halen? Yeah, they want me to either sound like Van Halen or they want me to play Van Halen. They want me to be like my dad, but if I was, I'm writing coattails, but I'm not, but I am. Well, it's, you know it's a setup.

Yeah. It's a setup. So as long as you know it's a setup. I'm just doing what makes me happy. Do you know, you know, the great country singer Hank Williams? So Hank Williams Jr., well, Hank Williams died when Hank Jr. was very young. The mother pushed him on a stage at eight years old and had him singing Hank Williams songs because they needed the money, quite frankly. And Hank Williams at some point was like, to hell with this. And he busted out and was like, I'm going to do my own music. It was heavily criticized, you ain't your daddy. Hank Williams' country music hall of fame. One of the most influential musicians of all time in any genre. So I don't know why people aren't willing to give you that opportunity.

I find that annoying. It's a really funny put down of like you'll never be your dad. And when it's like, no, I'm not and nobody else ever will be. I'm not trying to. Well, start here. Nobody, but nobody, and it's been a good, what, Van Halen 1 came out in 77. Okay, as far as I'm concerned, nobody's topped your father. Okay. So start there, right? you know what I'm saying? So to put that on you, like somehow it's your cross to bear, I find that really weird. Yeah, that I'm not legitimate unless I rise above that in some way.

And it's, it's... It's so weird to me. Yeah, I feel like if people actually... If a basketball player's dad won five championships and the son won two, does it mean the son wasn't any... He'll never be his dad. It's kind of weird.

It is. We're all different people, and I'm doing something completely different. Yeah. Like, my dad couldn't, you know, record every single instrument to the level I am on Mammoth, you know? Yeah. He would tell you that. He loved it. He was so proud of it.

You know, he knew the first. Well, I knew your dad a little bit, you know. I used to send faxes to your house, and I know he read him. He just wouldn't respond, but I know he read him. I would just send him nice notes, you know, basically, like, I admire you and I hope you will. That's awesome. Faxes, that's how long ago it was. We still have that machine up at the studio.

Okay, you know what the fax machine I'm talking about? He's like, you want to communicate with me, you write me a fact. I'm doing a bad impression of your dad, but it's always the cigarette. But like I said, I know your dad a little bit, spent some good time with him here and there. And he even honored me at one point coming to one of my shows. I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. It was a real honor to see him in the audience. I don't get the feeling he would want you to be him.

No, he never did. Right? He enjoyed playing with me. That was one of his favorite thing. It was a big reason why the years of Van Halen, where I was involved, happened at all. Yeah, and you started in Van Halen when you were 15, right? Is that the right number? Yeah. Okay. He obviously trusted you. He puts you in arenas full of people.

Well, it wasn't just him, too. It was Al. It was everybody. It was Roth at the time. Yeah. You know, it was the whole crew. They all trusted me. It wasn't just... That's a big organization. Yeah. You know, and I know how ridiculous it sounds to trust a 15-year-old to... do that but I wouldn't have been there had they not known I was capable. Right. So that's what I'm saying. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that your father was proud of you.

He trusted you. He believed in you. And he encouraged you to chase your own musical dream. So I don't understand what people don't understand about that. Again, I don't want to talk about that. But contextually, I think everything we talk about is me sort of putting it in the light of like, I think it's time that the story turns over to like what's Wolf going to do with his life. And then maybe you agree with me, maybe you would.

And it's like, okay, when all said and done, will you look at what I've created and will you say he did his best? You know what I'm saying? Well, I think there's a lot of pride involved too, I think, because when I did the Taylor Hawkins tribute, where I played those two Van Halen songs for Taylor and for my dad. It was a big moment for me because it was, one, proving that I could do it. And two, showing that I choose not to. Can you explain the choose not to bit? I think my dad actually had a quote when they ended up doing a lot of cover songs.

It was on Diver Down. There was a lot specifically that album. And he said, I'd rather bomb with my own material than succeed with someone else. Right. And I feel very much that way. Like, I could very easily shack up and do, you know, Wolf does Van Halen and do that and probably make a decent living at it. Yeah.

But that's, that's why Hank Jr. came to mind. It's like a weird expectation. It's very hollow and astoundingly, creatively unfulfilling. So I just, I can't, I feel like it's kind of selling out. And I could never do that. That's not satisfying to me. I would rather bomb on my own than succeed with what my dad laid before me. And I was trying to think of other rock progeny,

and you're one of the only ones that I can think of that's actually been successful. I mean, I'm sure there are, but most don't get out and you have. So why are we still, and I'm collective the we, why are we still talking about this? And I'm here I am talking about it, but I'm frustrated maybe on your behalf. I don't know you, but as some of you, somebody who's a fan and somebody who loved your father, I'm not saying I'm trying to defend it for him, but it's just annoying.

Well, it's a funny thing when you see the people who are the strongest Van Halen fans outwardly acting in a way that my dad would be disgusted with, and they don't see that. Well, let me tell you a story that might make you laugh. So I went solo. I had a band that broke, after Pumpkins broke up, I had a band for a hot second, and then I went solo.

So I'm touring, you know, I'm in Belgium with my weird solo project. It's all electronic and I'm acting all weird. And people are screaming at me to play pumpkin songs. And I said in the press, I'm not going to play pumpkin songs. And I remember I was in Belgium. It's this weird old venue in Ghent, G-H-E-N-T. And, you know, sometimes the awkward silence between songs. And I heard a guy with like a Belgian accent,

why can you play pumpkin? You know what I mean? and I just went in the mic because I don't to. And that's people chasing me down with my own music. It's a very weird disconnect to that I think in a way that. And it's a very hotly debated topic to this day that I think as a consumer, they think they own you to a certain extent. What do you think that is?

Because I'm saying I understand because I've experienced it my own. I don't know. It's their choice to say. spend their own money on an album but at that point the transaction is over you know they don't own you and you know you're not you know it's it's a very weird thing and i don't know how to how to quantify it or explain it but i think you know it's it's an artist's full right to do what they want yeah and that you have a choice to buy the album you have a choice to to go see the concert but you don't own them yeah you know yeah i've got it sometimes in airports like if it wasn't for me you wouldn't live

in a big house and I was like no actually I still would sorry sorry bro I'm good yeah it's a very weird the what's the word I'm looking for just the the entitlement is is yeah I don't understand it social media is you know has poisoned it a thousandfold yeah 15 years yeah um let's talk about you so and I hope you understand why I wanted contextualize that of course okay cool uh what was it that were listening to as a kid that you were like that you know made you want to pick up a guitar like you know made you want to be a musician it's a funny thing i i started on drums um and so i want to talk about that too but go ahead please yeah um uh a big thing i bonded over with my dad was acdc and interesting did he like acdc yeah uh acdc uh he really like tory amos and his favorite album of all

time uh along with one of my favorite albums is uh so by peter gabriel okay So he had a very eclectic taste, but ACDC is something. I remember he showed me the song, Big Balls, when we were on a road. Father's son's story. We were on a road trip, and it just, I loved it so much. I loved Bond Scott's voice, and I was enamored with Malcolm Young's rhythm, guitar aggression. Amazing.

Yeah, one of the best. That's definitely the secret sauce in ACDCs. Absolutely. Malcolm. What really set me out on individually finding what pushed me to be a better musician was Blinquin 82. I got Enema of the state and learning how to play Travis Barker's drum parts on it is what... Yeah, Travis is a very cool drummer. Yeah, he's really, really good.

And I think from there, I didn't find a level up until I started listening to Tool and trying to learn Danny Carey's parts. Good luck with that. Yeah. And, but when it came to, like, guitar and stuff, I mean, it was really everything. I'm more, I guess I'm more interested in song. Yeah, song-wise, it was, like, who in your mind was like, I wish I could write songs like that, you know? Trent Reznor. Okay. Dave Grohl. You know, I think Allison Chains was another big one for me. Yeah, Jerry's such an amazing writer.

Yeah, yeah. And I think those. another big band for me growing up was Jimmy Eat World. I thought, I think they get unfairly pigeonholed into a one-hit wonder sort of thing with the middle when I think they are a very unique band that I really love. But yeah, you know, it just, the respect for the song more than anything, rather than, you know,

doing a wank off solo here. Yeah, I hear that in your music. Your songs are very strong. Yeah, thank you. I have more respect for, does this serve the song? or not. Yeah. And I think that's why it's okay.

You know, I'm recording right now. And there are many moments in it where I was like, I could do this, but I'd rather just focus on the groove. Sometimes simplifying things are what makes it heavier and more impactful. I feel like you're, I can kind of see where you're going, but you know, you've got to tell me, but I feel like you're still putting together certain elemental things. It's strong.

Don't get me wrong. But I can kind of hear you're still reaching for things that you don't quite have in our band we call it languaging it's like you develop your own language of it yeah i think i'm having fun finding these different you know expanding the sound and finding where the limits are sure i think the first album was very much a comfy rock album and when it came to the second one i was itching more to do some uh you focus on more virtuosque things like some more solo moments on guitar now that I was comfortable. And even some syncopated double-kick stuff, like on the song, Right, on that second

album. And now that I think I've gotten that out of my system, I'm having fun really focusing on the song. Yeah, I think it's interesting. You know, I didn't know that, I think I knew somewhere in the back of my brain that you played everything on your records. But when I sort of saw that you started on drums, it was like, oh, your guitar playing made more sense to me. Rhythmic.

A lot of polyrhythmic stuff. And then, of course, what people skip past is, you know, your uncle's Alex Van Halen, who's a phenomenal drummer. I think if you've got these two familial influences, right? I guess what I'm saying is it like, it put pieces together for me, like, because everyone obviously goes to one side of the room with your dad. But, you know, that polyrhythmic thing that's in a lot of your uncle and dad's music and yours, It's like, it's a cool, different take on it.

I don't know how to put it. I'm not saying it's the family brand, but it put pieces together for me and your music. Because the first thing I heard when I heard your first record was there was some good riffing. But like, if you think of like Jerry Cantrell, he plays certain tonalities, certain riffs, and you go, that's Jerry Cantrell. And I think you've developed the thing that's like, I know it's you now. Yeah, I'm starting to find out what those are.

Yeah, it's cool. I'm realizing I do use a lot of major chord inflections and a lot of, God, what's the word? I can't have to. Nerd. Yeah, nerd stuff. Yeah. A lot of chromatic.

Yes. Yeah, do do do do do. Yeah. Chromatic major is kind of where my comfy is. Have you listened to Gershwin at all? I would highly recommend listen to Gershwin. Well, good. Gershwin's the master at major key diatominy.

passing chords, it just blow your mind. You've got to go deep into Gershwin. We'll do. I'm not, I don't know what your musical tastes are outside of rock, but he's like the supreme master, like everyone goes to Rhapsody and Blue because it's this, you know, it's this pivotal moment in music. But you go deep into Gershwin's songwriting, which is, I think, why so many jazz musicians like to play over Gershwin. For sure. There's always this beautiful tone poem stuff going on in between chords. And that's what most rock guys miss is A, G, B.

It's all the little notes that's sort of the personality part of it. I also want to praise you in that I really like that you we call it going to ground. Like you're out there working. You're touring. You're building up an audience, the old-fashioned way.

Like, I'm here to play. I got a good band. I watch some live clips you today. Band sounds great. You sound great. Thank you. You know what I mean? I've been hitting it hard. This year is probably one of the busiest years of my life, you know. That's what I mean. It's like you're out there working, you know. Yeah. And, you know, you grew up in L.A. You could be sitting somewhere, you know, staring at a sunset.

I mean, it's grueling. You're married now. I want to work, though. You know, I want to earn this. Yeah. I don't want to be given anything. Right. You know. There's not an ounce of entitlement in you. You know what I mean? Thank you. So that's what I'm saying.

It's like the musician in me is like, okay, he's working. I mean, I'm not trying to defend you. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I do think it's, you know, I could just as easily be some fuck up with a coat problem on a yacht, you know, living off of my dad's name. You could do that. That's an option. But that's not the option I want to pay. Unfortunately, that's the majority out here.

It's a whole lot of people in my position. I mean, how many people you know with famous parents? They're like they're never going to do shit. Yeah. Because they don't want to work. or they don't want to deal with adversity. And I just, I would rather make my own name, unfortunately, when I have the name Van Halen.

It's tough to do. I'm saying this is a family thing, so you take it however you want. Who in your family gives you this sort of resolve, not to fight, but to be strong in what you're doing? I mean, my dad certainly did. He's the one who raised me to be an independent musician and person as well as my mother, you know. And I think I'm really glad I didn't pigeonhole myself as a musician into just trying to recreate what my dad does.

And it's like, while I could do that, and to a certain extent, it's in me, I take a different approach with it. And I'm very glad. Because your mom obviously has a very interesting front row seat, you know what I mean? What's her take on that vibe? She's just very proud. I know she was very nervous initially when I joined. Van Halen at 15. Was she worried you were going to go off the rails?

Maybe or just, you know. Just mom stuff? Yeah, mom stuff. Yeah. But I think now she trusts me that I've been able to approve myself as my own individual. And she is certainly as proud as can be. I mean, her social media handle is Wolfie's mom. So I think that says everything.

I follow you, mother's son. I'm aware of the love that a mother has for her son. I'm not trying to stay on the negative stuff because it gets boring. There's a lot of negative stuff, so feel free. No, I'm not, I find it boring, and I'm not saying it's boring to you when you're going through it. I guess what I'm trying to say is I know what it's like to be on stage. You're in a great mood. You want to play.

And you can feel there's this vibe out there. you know how do you navigate that in real time we dealt with our own version of it well you're not nirvana well you're not you know you're not pearl jam or whatever and you know as a musician not as a person in the moment you got to figure out with your people how to attack that so that when you leave that stage they go you know what there's something there i wasn't expecting that and by the way it might make you laugh. I'm 57 years old. I still deal with it. I still deal with it. I can feel that vibe. Oh, yeah. I guarantee you there's at least 20% of every crowd at our show that leaves disappointed. I didn't play Panama, you know. Good song. Great song. Not a mammoth song.

Exactly. You know, is there a usual play eruption in any, in any pause? Sure. You know, but that's to be expected. People are drinking. People are being dumb, you know. Yeah. Whatever. It's cool. But again, I'm more interested in the positive side. Like, how do you, how do you adjust? Look, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, you don't have a name, right? You have a name from your family. I have a name that I've built up over time. That creates an expectation, but you, you know, you, you, you, you, you're working with something. If you're nobody and nobody knows who you are and that was me at one point in my life, you know, when you got a bar full of people. people drinking, you know, you have to figure out a musical solution. You know, it's not like, hey, be nice to me. You know what I'm saying? It's like, what is your musical solution? Is it to have

a great band? Is it to write better? What's your plan there? For me, it's to have great songs that I think if you were given the album at any point, you could find at least one song that you would enjoy. Yeah. I listen to pass a wide breath. I listened to the first album when it came out and I was like, wow, okay. You know, there's something here. There's something. like distance if you like you know down tempo sort of emotional pop song but then there's heavy stuff like you know heavy arena

you know rock like back down or you know then there's solo heavy stuff like you're to blame and that's just talking about the first album or like sort of a sludgy but my point is is the second album I hear you growing as a musician I hear you getting more confident I hear you kind of spreading your wings a little bit more with what you want to say

and that's every artist that's going somewhere that's how it should be you know it's like you're getting a better and better. But when you're out there in front of a live crowd, like, what's the sorry, I can't remember the name of the song, something's about the world, blowing up the world or... Another celebration at the end of the world. Okay.

But I watched some live clip and you were opening with that song. Yeah. So then I watched that and then I went back and listened to the album version. And I like that the live version was a little bit more aggressive than the album version. We always tend to play a couple of BPM faster live. Right, but I'm saying that's

on some level, that's a musical thing of like, okay, I'm going to, I got to come out here and hit this hard. Well, that was, you know, I think the, the, what I like about what we've set up so far is that we have that wide breadth in musical variety to where we can sort of chamele in our way into opening for other bands. Like, for example, we've been opening for Metallica for the last two years. We just finished that up. That's a tough band open for. So we found that. Been there, done that.

Yeah. So we've found that that the crowd, responded most to tempo and obviously more heavier songs. So we just took all the heavy songs that we could play and all the fast songs we could play in our catalog and just that's what we did. And it worked. But hell, we could open for Taylor Swift if we wanted to. We have enough pop songs that it's like we could just play an acoustic set and there you go. You've been through enough, I think. You're really asking for it there. Even I don't have that kind of confidence. That's my, I guess, my move is to have that sort of wide. breath where you can fit anywhere. But don't you think that's a bit of a, I'm going to sound like

an old guy, but your generation is different about those types of, like my generation was very much like, you're in this category, which is why I said I wanted to interview your father. Yeah. Because back then it was like, Van Halen's a rock band. They're not alternative. So if you like alternative, you can't, you know, is the same crap. Yeah, I guess I'm not about it. Your generation seems to be more like, hey, it's all good. Yeah, I think any, if it sounds, my dad would always say, if it sounds good, then it is good. Yeah, I think that's what I... You know the Duke Ellington quote?

There's two types of music, good and bad. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and I think that's... So going back to your initial question, I think having a breadth of music where you can kind of camellian your way into other spots, but just having a good band and good songs and playing them well.

I think the biggest thing for me is... And a big criticism that I was given because nobody ever believed I was playing anything was that I was faking and I was playing to tracks or something. What? Yeah, yeah. You play super tight live. Thank you.

I mean, that's... And you're saying it. Yeah, it's very important for me that we don't use tracks. The only thing we play to is a click track. Okay. You know? Why do you play to click track?

It just kind of keeps it together. It's just more fun. Sometimes it's fun to not, you know... There's a metal band with sugar I love very much and sometimes they just go into a song where you don't even hear a count-off and I think that's really cool. Okay, yeah.

But I don't know, it just kind of holds it together. But, you know, that's a big debate on tracks. I personally think there shouldn't be any lead vocal tracks. There shouldn't be any background tracks. There shouldn't be any main guitar. No, no drums. Like, for us, what you're seeing is us. Yeah, it's different.

It's not the album. It's a live thing. Yeah. And I think what we've been doing the past three years is working on being the best performance kind of band that you can think. We don't have a show. The show is. us, you come to see us play our songs as great as well as possible.

If you want a free suggestion, one thing that I found when I was younger is sometimes finding the right song to cover. It allow you to add a different musical layer to your set. Even food fighters, you see where Grohl would do, and Taylor would come out and sing queen or whatever, it allows you to kind of create a different scene in the movie that you're playing live without having to figure it out. And what we always, it is we just do our own version of it yeah we actually did that for a little bit we covered them bones oh wow okay my uh my guitar player my other guitar player we have three uh john has a really good singing voice and so we were able to do those you know i have a funny story for you that involves that song

if you want to hear it yeah yeah so um the pumpkins are trying to get signed 1990 and columbia records was interested in sign of the band we didn't sign with them so i i go to you know the tower or wherever they were. And Donnie Einer was the president, you know, notorious, like, and I go in this office, and he's literally, not that you can see on TV,

like, see where that chair is over there? Yeah. Okay, he's sitting that far away from me behind the desk. And for some reason, I'm all the way on the other end of the room. Right? And as I'm sitting there, he's on the phone,

as I'm looking around, it's like, to Donnie, Mick and Keith, you know, autographs. Everywhere I look, it's like, I love you, Donnie, Stevie Wonder, you know, whatever, right? So it's totally intimidating. I was 23 or something. And he goes, who's going to produce your first record? I go, probably Butch Vig.

Now, Butch Vig, at that point, had not done, never mind. Wow. Butch Vick had done some demos with Nirvana. And we wanted to produce what became our first Domkish, which went on to be very successful. But nobody knew who. who Butch was. Never heard of him. He goes, what about Dave Jordan? And Dave Jordan had done Jane's addiction. Yeah. Nothing shocking and stuff like that. I go, well, people say we sound a little bit like James. It's probably a bad idea. He goes, listen to this. And he cranks. And I'd never heard Alice and

Chains. Wow. Okay. I mean, stun volume. Like, concert level. Them bones. Wow. It wasn't even out yet. That's amazing. So I'm like this. Right? And it sounds amazing.

You know, I mean, you know, you cover the song. It's like, it sounds amazing. Yeah. Song finishes, what do you think? Like, sounds pretty good. Loud. So is he your producer? I go, no.

Like, you don't tell a guy like that, no. Yeah. So, out. Wow. End a meeting. So I blame Jerry. Way to go, Jerry. God bless.

I'm really curious if you have a vision for where you want to go musically. And I'm not asking the nerd, like, more polyrhythms. I'm saying is there an aspiration because I feel you have it in you to expand your palate out. And I'm not saying it's as simple as, like, you know, the Beatles started using orchestras. But you have an aspirational arc that you, I feel like you've got the musical harmonic ability. I just, I want something new. on every, on every album. Like, I don't want every album to tread the same ground.

Like, obviously, there can be core. Right. Okay, so what's that sound like in your brain? I think right now, there are certain songs that I'm working on that have just, I don't even know how to quantify, just a different vibe, but still is tied to the sound of mammoth. But it just kind of makes that bubble that much bigger. Sure.

And I think it's hard. Is there a set of influences that it's exciting you? I'm asking, because I'm really curious where you want to go. Yeah, I'm trying to put, I mean, there are some riffs on this next album that are almost like rage against the machine like. There's this one song that is almost queen in a way, you know, and those are different vibes than what we've laid out before. So I think as long as there's, you know, I have some vibes on some ideas on a piano that

I haven't really explored. And I think that would be a fun thing to. But overall, I guess what I just want to do is I just, I think rock, you know, it's no longer the golden genre as it was, but I think there's not a lot. But it's having a weird comeback. It is. And I just, I want to make sure that I can do my best to, to, to, you might be standing in a couple years, you might be standing in the perfect spot. I guess that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. You know, at least hold, I can only encourage you. I can only encourage you to chase whatever you're hearing in your head.

You got to trust that. Yeah, that's one of me. I know there's more music in you, which is why I get annoyed when people kind of do this weird, like, you know what I mean? Because as a musician, and look, you're opening for Metallica. James Headfield is one of the great. Like, James and Lars would not have you on there if they didn't think that you had a future. It was an honor, man. Those were serious guys.

Lars really knows music, and so does James. And so does Rob Trujillo, you know what I mean? And so does Kirk. Like, they're musos. Yeah. You can't be in Metallic if you don't have, like, a deep love and appreciation for music. The fact that they put it into the Metallica stew, well, that's a lot of influences coming into that stew. Yeah, it was a crazy honor to tour them for almost two years. Right. Crazy. Yeah. Right. So that's what I'm saying. It's like, they don't run a charity up there.

Yeah. I think that's a clear point where it's like, you know, people think that, doors are just wide open for me to walk through and are just handed to me. You grew up in this business? You normally don't work like that. You have to, you have to, sure. How long has Mammoth been going now at this point? We started touring in July of 2021. But you'd made the record before, right? I spent 2015 to 2018 making the first record.

But then when my dad got sick, I kind of put everything on it. And it wasn't until he passed in 2020 that I was like, okay, my life is completely empty. And I need something to give me purpose. And that's what I'm still doing to this day. I saw where you were talking about how he had an influence on the first record. And it makes sense to me. And then here you are on the second record. It's like, okay, well, this mentor is my pop, right?

who'd you turn to that gave you sort of a confidence or like is it your band is it you know i'm saying who in your world like who's your guy or girl that you go to go okay i'm going the right way in the absence of my father which is a heavy absence that i'm dealing with to this day you know his his his pride in me was so large that in its absence there's just this kind of black hole sitting there but i have my mother i have my wife I have Matt who's here with me and I have my uncle Patrick, my mom's brother, and my good friend and manager Tim are the, and my producer Elvis as well, are the people that kind of see through my insecurities and try and pull. Do you think your insecurities are born of something that you were just born with and you just have to navigate it? because if you're a sensitive person, that stuff happens?

Yeah. Or do you think because you're in a particular situation, it puts you in a thing where you're like, I don't know how to navigate all this? I think it's a bit of both, honestly. I think it is the pressure of the name, but it also is just, I'm an emotional person who wants to do the right thing.

Yeah. It's tough to know what that is before you do it. Yeah. So I don't know what that feels like, you know. I can only tell you my version of it. I can only tell you that, like, at some point, my life became a ghost on me and I was like, what is this? Yeah.

I always make the joke, like, I get the guy who walks up to me in the airport, and he wants to talk to me about my second album, and he's talking to me like, because you talk to the guy who wrote that, and I'm like, I'm here, hello. Yeah. I wrote the second album. Exactly. I was like, could you talk to Bill 93?

You know, I'm like, I'm here. Yeah. It's a funny thing. Right? I don't remember what song I took this from, so you remind me, but I like this lyric. Hey you, anything is possible. Is it from the distance, right?

That's mammoth. That's the first song. Okay, sorry. Hey, you. Thank you. Hey, you, anything is possible. You're not the only one. You let them think you're unremarkable and prove them wrong.

Am I right? This is somebody talking to you? If anything, it's a little bit of both, almost like a mantra to myself. Okay. To a certain extent, but also, you know, I like to write lyrics from a perspective that I think anybody can take their own meaning from it.

Okay. I really don't like when there's maybe a, I think there's always a definitive meaning for a song from somebody, but I don't like to paint people's opinions or thoughts on it prior. I like people to form their own opinions. And I like to write from a perspective that people can kind of. Is that, is that because you want them to have that experience or is it because you like a little bit of ambiguity? Ambiguity is nice, I think.

But in the case of that song, I think it's just, there's a lot of times. my life where I've felt worthless or not able to live up to certain people's expectations that they have for me. And it's just nice to have a mantra to follow. And to try in some way instill confidence if it's possible into yourself, you know, that you can kind of do it. Yeah. I was curious because we were talking about you playing everything. And pretty good drummer, you know what I mean? So, you know, it's a lot of talent going on here, but I am curious because, you know, my father was a musician. I don't know if you know that. So my father was a very, very harsh critic.

And he didn't rate me as a good guitar player oftentimes. So trying to live up, and my dad was a really good guitar player. Yeah. And I have a funny story when I tell you. But so I'm curious how your uncle Rachie was a drummer. You know what? I don't know if I even asked him. I just know he's proud of me.

and that he thinks I'm good. Yeah, yeah. I've never really asked specifically, though. That's funny. I'll have to ask. Yeah, yeah. Because, again, I knew I was going to talk to you. I had this memory that I hadn't thought of for a long time.

My dad was a professional musician in Chicago. I started playing strip bars when he was 17. So I was born when he was 19. Wow. So I grew up always musicians everywhere. my dad, as I like to say, was always the white guy in the African-American band. He loved funk, soul, R&B. That's the music.

He worshipped blues. Yeah. So that's, you know, when I was five years old in the basement, they're down there getting stone and playing and all that stuff. But as you know, when you have a musician father, they're very opinionated. Yeah. And they definitely let you know, er, right? Yeah.

And I'm not asking you any of those questions. I'm telling you my story. but he hated pretty much everybody on the guitar. And again, my father was a really good guitar player. So it's not like I thought, you don't know what you're talking about, old man. He was really good. It could really, really play.

And he liked Stevie Ravon because he liked blues. And so to him, Stevie Ravon, rated. But there's this one moment where I was listening obsessively to Van Halen one. and he had a turntable and he let me play records and so I'm and and he came in and he was like what are you doing

and I was trying to learn how to play ain't talking about love you know A minor you all know the riff you played it a thousand times a little bit and and it was cool because he didn't like rock music per se

but he respected your dad as a guitar player which meant the world to me because it was like he wasn't doing the thing like uh you know he was like no he's good so he thought it was valuable and he took the time to learn it's the only song he ever taught me outside of house of the rising sun was ain't talking about love because everyone always assumes because my dad was a professional guitar player that he taught me he didn't teach me same thing he didn't want me to play in my case he didn't want me to play he did everything to keep me from playing. But when he saw that, I was serious, he would occasionally sort of point and do that. And so I have this beautiful memory of being in his, my dad used to deal drugs. So up front in the

house where he lived, and I lived with him, you know, I'm listening to Van Halen 1. And I said, can you help me with that? He took the time to learn it and taught me. And then he encouraged me to listen, because he said, this is a person worth listening to. It's a cool, it's a cool memory, right? That's really, really cool. I think that's an important delineation that should be made about dad is that regardless of if you're a fan of the music or not, you have to respect his impact at the very least on the instrument. It's redonculus. Yeah, I think for some people. To use a 90s word, you know?

Yeah, I think for some people, it's, you know, it's like, I don't like that stuff. But it's like you can't, you can't ignore. Like, subjective opinions are right. Do you mind if I say something personal? Yeah. Okay. I really, really truly admired your father as a musician. And I was lucky enough to know him just a little bit.

And when he passed away, you know, when somebody you really love and admire passes away, you almost hold your breath a little bit, right? Because what's the story? Like, how's this all going to go down, right? Is somebody going to say something stupid? Is it, is their take not going to be my take? It's selfish as a fan, and it blew me away the love that came from every quarter. And I was like, wow, that's awesome.

Because he was so loved as a musician. And I was like, that's so rare. It's like, there's only a few musicians that rate that kind of response where you've got people from every musical genre. I'm not saying that made your your, your, your, your, you're, your loss any easier. No. But it was cool for me as a fan. Yeah.

And somebody knew him like a little bit. It was like, that's the person that I admired. And I'm glad that it felt kind of cool and a weird, it's like, let's call it the silver lining of something terrible. It was like, wow, this is sweet. Yeah. It really, you know, we're coming up on the four-year anniversary of his passing. And it's not any easier. And I believe Zelda Williams, Robin Star.

said it in the best way that I could ever imagine, which is even a truckload full of roses still weigh a ton. Okay. And why do you, you don't have to answer this you want, but why is it still so hard for you? Did you understand the way I'm asking that? Because there's so much that I can't share with him. He never got to see what, what happened with Mammoth.

He never got to see me get married. He never got to see me have kids eventually. Yeah. You know, and those are some tent pull moments that will always have a tinge of sadness to her what. I get it. It's tough. I lost my mom when I was 29. Sorry.

Oh, thank you. But right at the peak of everything going crazy. Yeah. And you have those moments where you're like, she never met the grandkids. She didn't see me lose my mind in 98. You know what I mean? So I get it. I really do understand.

I hope you find the peace in that. I know he'd be proud. You know, he'd be losing. it. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, you know, grieving is such a complicated process. You know, they're still really studying it. Yeah. You know, and I hope that you, there's that moment, hopefully, and everybody's grief where it, it turns from a hollow hurt to a sweetness. And I hope you find that spot. Yeah, I think I'm in that halfway period, maybe, you know. Yeah, I lost my pop a couple years ago, about almost three years ago.

you know, he was a hardcore partier and totally abused himself. And we didn't always have the best relationship. So I've lost both my parents now. And like I said, it's almost three years. And I'm just now getting around to kind of deal with it. Yeah. I spent like the first year kind of like, yeah, I'm okay. You know, we were all good.

You know, he lived as he died. He died as he lived. He wanted to go out, you know, live in a dream. Yeah. So it's very complicated. And I think maybe that's one other part that annoys me for as much love as your father engendered from his fans and as much as he contributed to American culture, not only world culture. I mean, I remember being in a pool in 1979,

the day, Dance the Night Away came out as a single. I'm 11, 12 years old in a pool in Glendale Heights, Illinois, and it was the song of summer. Yeah. Like, I will forever. ever have that sunshine on my face and going, what the hell is this? And the beautiful chorus. Oh, yeah. Right? So that's part of what irritates me is you're still a person in mourning. You know what I mean? There used to be a respect in our world for like, let that person have some time to themselves. Social media has completely eroded that. Oh, yeah. And now we have generations growing up in that. Yeah. And so the empathy isn't even involved and they they don't even know what it was like prior and it's a really tough thing

yeah so i don't know how people don't do the mouth of hey if i love eddie or if i love van helen how can i not extend that love and empathy to his child yeah why does it immediately turn negative well that says something about them it doesn't say anything about you of course it's just a very interesting phenomenon you know and he named you wolfgang for a reason you know last thing when i wrote this question today when i was preparing to interview you um and i want to give my answer and so i hope it doesn't come off wrong because i respect you and that's why i want to talk to you you know i'm poking around as you do right it's it's the internet and i come across this thread and the thread was would you still listen to him if his last name wasn't ben hailing

So I'm like, okay, I'm going to wait in here. And it was like, wow, this is weird, weird. And so you can react if you want, you can just say, whatever, that's the world. My opinion is, yes, if you were named Wolfgang Johnson and you had a band called Crazy Kids, and I heard your number one song on the radio or your number one record or one record or whatever, I think this kid has something. I don't know why people can't get that. Yeah, it's a tough thing because we don't live in that world. But what would you want them to? It's weird because you know and I know it's a fool's gold. Nothing you say and nothing I say is going to change that. I would love

people to judge me on my own merits, but I think that's impossible for certain people. Okay. So I'm sitting here as a musician, right? And I'm saying you belong. You're one of us. you're a musician like me you grew up in a musical family the fact that my dad didn't make it doesn't change at all my relationship to my pop

my father was my hero so I'm saying it's not fair but I resonate with you in a particular way I know what it was like to have my father stare at me when I was playing the guitar and think am I living up to his expertise you know what I'm saying?

Yeah I get it even though I don't know your circumstance It's a funny thing because people, there are some people who just hate me because I exist, and there's nothing I can do about the way I was grown up. Is that because they think you have some privilege? Yeah, and that's certainly true to an extent, but it's completely out of my control. And I think it's funny when my dad literally achieved the American dream. Coming from another country, didn't he to speak English. A Dutch immigrant at six years old.

Yeah. found success beyond his wildest dreams doing what he loved and gave a better life to his offspring than he had yeah that's the american dream he he is the american dream and that's like that is the dream you would you would leave something for your children so if that's if he did that then why why is it like me all of a sudden because my dad did that it's completely out of my control you know what i mean it's it's it's a very very weird thing because i just all i want to do is just play music and make make music that makes people feel emotions yeah you know well the one thing i can tell you about this world is people get bored and eventually they're going to get bored of the same

story yeah and they'll move on they'll make up some other new story sure like they don't like your beard yeah yeah yeah anyway they'll move on i hope this was enjoyable for you this was wonderful because i thank you because i i i think you have such a bright future and i and i hope that you you get to all those dancing rainbows in your head you know that musicians have when they're laying in bed thank you that it means means the world to hear you say that thank you so thank you oh we talk again soon absolutely i'm uh mammoth three yeah okay yeah we'll be right here you got it anytime man thank you