The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan - Yoshiki (X Japan) | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Billy Corgan welcomes legendary musician, composer, and X Japan co-founder Yoshiki for a conversation about creativity, rebellion, and building something that refuses to follow the rules. Yoshiki reflects on helping create the Visual Kei movement, pushing rock music to its limits with X Japan, and the personal losses that shaped him from losing his father at a young age to the heartbreaking deaths of his bandmates, survivor's guilt, and a struggle with depression that nearly consumed him. Along the way, he shares stories of working with legendary Beatles producer George Martin, composing a piano concerto for the Emperor of Japan, and turning a loan from his mother into the record label that helped change the course of Japanese rock.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I thought the music or art should be more free. There's no rule. I wanted to disrupt everything I could think of. What planet is this? From Japan, planet Japan, but it was so extreme. We didn't want people to define who we are. This was something completely different. More critics hated us, I enjoyed it.

Most of the credit goes to your band for starting this style. Yoshiki, thank you for being on my show. Nice to see you. Thank you for having me. We've known each other for how long? Quite a long time, I guess. Yeah, it's been a while now. 20 years, maybe, a little less, something like that.

So I did not know this until I was going to interview you, but you made the 100 most influential people in the world list, 2025 for Time magazine. Was that a surprise or? Mm-hmm. I think so. I mean, it doesn't surprise me because I know how successful you are, but still, that's an incredible list to end up on when you think of eight plus billion people on the planet.

It's, yeah, it's a surprise. Yeah. Did they warn you before or did you just one day you read that you're on this list? One day I just heard from it. Oh, really? Did anyone call you and, uh, offer you anything like and i'm done uh i'm showed up in time magazine a few times before oh okay so it's not like a completely not familiar with you know yeah yeah yeah so um i wanted to start here

uh because i i never knew that there was a a term for it but it's the idea of visual k which uh your band x japan is seen as kind of the originator obviously there's other people but most of the credit goes to your band for starting this style, visual K. So one small story before I ask you a question, but when Pumpkins first went to Japan, around 92, 93,

ex-Japan, your band is everywhere. But with this massive hair and this style, and to us, it was so alien. We'd never seen anything like it. So can you maybe explain a little, bit the origin of the visual K style and what you the band was thinking. Okay. So I do have a classical music background.

I started playing piano when I was four years old. So then like a 10 years old, when I was 10 years old, I started playing drums. Like a classical art is more like a punk rock drums. I mean music. I'm influenced by KISS and like that. The moment I lost my father. Actually, he took his own life. That's a very sad moment.

Anyway, then fast-wording. Then I made a band called X. Then eventually, I mean, later, so we eventually changed the band name to X Japan. Yes. Because there's a band called X, amazing band called X. Famous band from America, yeah.

Yes. So, anyway, so my background is classical music and rock music. Then at that time, I was very influenced by more like a heavy flash metal. Yeah. As well as punk rock. Yeah, I was listening to some of your early music. And I hear a lot of Lars Ulrich, you know. Orsley, something like that.

Yes. So Dave Lombardo and Lars were influences on this style for you? Yeah, yeah, of course. So then, but at the same time, I was very into like a David Boy or that kind of like. Yes. There's also a band called Japan, like that kind of like gram rock kind of like. So then we just combined all those things. But other people had combined glam and rock before, but never like...

Very extreme. I mean, the extreme... So again, to us coming from America, this is early 90s, we would see posters or your band would be on television, we would think like, what planet is this band from Japan, planet Japan? But it was so extreme. So how do you go from, hey, let's dress up and be kind of cool glam to the massive wigs and Whose idea was that first? So because we are playing a very heavy music,

there are a lot of critics came and said, you know, if you want to, how do you say, assigned to major label, you may want to do that right look. Yeah. So look like, you know, heavy metal band. I see. That's like, I was so.

Yeah, like your typical chain jackets. I respect that as well, but I was so rebel against everything. I hated life because I think my father's suicide just had a lot of influence towards me. I was like, so I did a completely opposite. Was this born of anger or born of rebellion? Combination of a lot of things. Sadness and then anger. Yeah. Also, Japanese culture was not in a bad way, but very, very conservative.

Still in many ways very conservative. So when I was high school or junior high, I dyed my hair red or blue. Then I don't think it's allowed right at this moment, I mean, this time, but my teacher grabbed me and shaved my head. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I knew I was doing not right thing because there's a school rule, but, so anyway, a lot of things just made me like that, kind of like rock and roll, anger, and everything. Even though I was playing classical music at that moment. But I guess what I'm after is, it seems particularly Japanese, that you would take. one element that other people had focused on, let's say, the glamour and rock, and then push it to an absolute extreme. I mean, was it there a progression? Did you guys have meetings? Did you talk about it?

I mean, how do you, because, you know, again, to us coming from America, it was like, what is happening? Because it was so different than anything we'd ever seen before. Because obviously we'd seen when Lou Reed was sort of, you know, being androgynous with Transformer and Bowie's different guys. and even New York Dolls and Kiss was obviously very influenced by New York Dolls and that scene that they all grew up in. But this was something completely different.

Can you at least walk me a bit through how you got there? Maybe to you it doesn't seem shocking, to us it was very shocking. I mean, or ironically happened, but my family used to run kimono, Japanese kimono business.

producing kimono. Then when I was young, my parents just, you know, me to put the kimono or something like that. Then sometimes there's some festival or something, they put makeup on me, and then some neighbor thought I was a girl, something like that. Anyway, so, you know, also there's a kabuki kind of culture in Japan. or also anime culture in Japan. Yeah. So then, but mostly like I influenced by David Bowie or something like that. So I decided to put the makeup, then play heavy music and then more critics hated us, I enjoyed it.

I see. So the more of the critics hated you, the more extreme. So I didn't want to belong. Yeah. not only me that I somehow met those amazing friends slash artists we didn't want to belong to, we didn't want people to define who we are because, you know, there's basically no rule in terms of art. So but especially Japan around that time,

maybe our culture, I will respect that. At the same time, they wanted to define who you are. You are like this. You should be, I didn't like it. I thought the music or art should be more free. There's no rule. I wanted to disrupt everything I could think of. Well, you definitely disrupted everything.

This is a question I would maybe only ask you, because we know each other a bit and we're friendly. And I know you're a very generous person. So I'm asking you in a way to kind of explain something to me about Japanese culture that I've always found interesting. Of course, historically, Japan was a closed island up until about the 1850s. And there are still the remnants of that closed society in the way Japan views other cultures. It's changing a bit now. but um and we've even talked about some of those changes that are going on in japanese culture now but

i guess what i'm saying is for example on a certain level to as a to an american it makes sense that that a japanese band in rebellion would pick elements of that they like from rock and roll history and say okay we want to because we did the same thing but it seems very particular to japanese culture that those elements would be different than the ones the Americans would focus on, and then it would be taken to this extreme. Of course, Japanese culture is very prevalent in the world now, but 30 years ago, less so. And it does feed into the story of your band about how what became so popular

and you guys became the biggest band in Japan didn't necessarily translate to other places because, like I said to us, it was so strange. you guys were doing. So can you at least explain to me maybe some of the elements that are particular to Japanese culture that maybe aren't the same as to Western culture? Does that make sense? Like, like for example, when you said, people would say, well, you're playing in a thrash band, you should look like Metallica would look or Megadeth or something like that. But to a Japanese sensibility, that doesn't make sense. Can you explain that a little bit? So, first of all, like Let's see, 30, 40 years ago, I mean, as far as I know, all the musicians, I respect it.

I mean, still, but I're respecting all the Western artists. I see. So more like a rock is like a culture of Western, not more like Eastern, right? Yeah. That's a vibe. So when I told my mother first time, I'm going to do rock band. she's like But anyway, she ended up

taking me to kiss concert I was 11 years old. But but yeah there's no such word rock kind of like exist in Japanese culture. More like there's a Japanese

pop music, something like that. Why do you think there isn't I mean there is more so now maybe than ever before but certainly 30 years. ago there was very small Japanese rock culture. Very.

Like we knew Shonen Knife. Oh yeah, yeah. You know, because we played shows with Shonan Knife. We knew the ladies in Shona Knife. But Japanese rock was not even considered as its own form of expression because it was always so Western influenced. Very small, yeah. Yeah. In terms of the record sales still at that time.

Sure. Yeah. So, but what, I think. I guess what I'm trying to do is link to ideas. Your focus as Japanese artist was very much in its own way, very Japanese. I don't know how else to explain it. Only a Japanese band would have made the choices that you made musically, melodically. Obviously, there's Western influences.

But what makes X Japan so unique and such a famous band is you made choices that only X Japan would have made, very synonymous with Japanese culture to us as Westerns. But were you on some way celebrating Japanese culture, or was it innate to you to celebrate the things that you wanted to celebrate about Western music and it just ended up being its own thing? Does it make sense? It does. And also did the Japanese fans rally because they thought,

okay, here's a band making Japanese rock for Japanese fans. Was that part of the success? We didn't think that much. Well, most fans. don't. We just thought something, we were very enjoying that every single past. Yeah. It's like, so let's see, I used to have a spike hair. Yeah, like this. Yeah. Actually, I used to have entire hair like spike. Then one time before the show, I run out of time. So I only have half done. They're like, oh, God, so I got to be on stage. So I just showed up. They might as well put,

put the left side, like put the white foundation or something. People liked it. It's like, oh, there's like anything not, how do you say, conventional? Yes. I liked it. Then the beginning of an ex-Japan, you know, concert, we are just playing very heavy music. The one time there's a piano, the club,

they couldn't move that piano. So it was just on stage. Yeah. So kind of side of stage, but just really like a center of stage almost ish. So I was like, you know what, just leave it. I'll play back or Chopin, middle of the set, middle of the thrash metal concert. I played, the people liked it. Like, huh, this may work.

Yeah. So we didn't think that much. It was just happening organically. Yeah. What do you think are some of the elements looking back now? that makes X-Japan different than most bands of the last rock bands of the last 30 years? Like, can you, can you, for people who don't know X Japan's music,

can you explain a little bit, like what you think makes the band different? Okay, so even though we are, we were doing this kind of, we still, but heavy music, I wrote every single note, even guitar solo, to the music school. Would you actually chart out the guitar solos? Oh, I didn't know that. So, I mean, there are also an amazing guitar player or bass player.

So they wrote a song as well, Taiji, Hide, Pata, he's now Sugizzo, Toshi. But I wrote probably 80, 90% of a song. At the beginning, I was, because of my classical music background, I wrote even, even double bass, everything. I wrote that music score. They gave it to my members. They're like, what that? Yeah.

How is this? Oh, I see. So I need to, maybe I play the piano and then this is a guitar sort of like this. So even though we are doing the heavy music, that how we construct us, you know, construct the music was, the music was very different. So I care about every single voicing. So this guitar is not going to crash with.

this bass and then guitar could be three guitar can be play this and something like that. I mean, orchestra way of creating the music. So I think I did it the same way, but I did it all in my head. Because I have no I think I told you before, I can't read music, you know. But you have naturally

talented and then you have I appreciate it, but I'm saying is I couldn't right, so I had to compose all in my head. Basically the same thing. We are doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. So that was already, you know, strange way to start. Yeah. Yeah, because to Western ears, Japanese rock metal always sounds a bit strange. And you've lived in America so long, I think you understand why it probably sounds strange to Western ears.

Maybe it's the use of Japanese melody on top of conventional rock. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And certainly your band was very influential. Like, every time I go to Japan now, I mean, I hear There are so many bands that are still doing what you guys were doing 30 years ago. I don't know what you would call that style of music. It's almost like a very, I don't want to call it pop metal because that's the wrong way to put it. Almost like Japanese pop melody over a very heavy, aggressive music. That seems very akin to Japanese culture. Right. Maybe you hear more influence now in America from that, but that goes back to Japanese culture, which goes back to your band.

Do you hear that those influences? Yeah, I'm very grateful. A lot of artists mention my band or even K-pop. Wow. Yeah. That's a cool compliment. Yeah. There's one thing I wanted to ask you about because I think, and you've seen it where Western bands come to Japan,

and it's almost like they almost infantilize the audience. like, oh, the Japanese audience is so quiet. You know what I'm saying? Can you tell us, because you have such a special relationship with Japanese fans, can you tell us, like, what's the best understanding of the Japanese audience? Because I think the Western bands oftentimes get the wrong impression of a Japanese audience. Well, Japanese audience could be extremely, like, loud and passionate. So, so it's like in between,

set when I start talking, they become very quiet. Right? Then when I say, scream, they just became louder than the, the, anything. So it's very, I don't know, somehow, not in a bad way, contained, but explosive. Oh, okay. Do you, is, but do Western artists misunderstand the Japanese crowd? Do you, do you see where sometimes Western artists misjudge the crowd? I think, you know, also I've been traveling all over the world.

I mean, they're playing a concert. So it's not different than any other, the audience, audience. But maybe now, but you remember the early 90s. The Japanese crowds were very quiet. Yeah, yeah. At least to a rock band. Yeah. I remember going to see Nirvana play Tokyo Sun Palace, 92.

Wow. And it was, this is the height of Nevermind. I mean, it was so quiet. You know what I mean? In between songs, it was like there was not one person talking. Okay. I mean, you would never find a grunge concert in 1992 anywhere in the world where it would be quiet between songs. That's true, actually.

So that's what I'm saying. Yeah. That sort of, but when I see the amount of love that the Japanese audience has had for your band, you guys have sold out the Sun, the Tokyo Dome like 18 times. I mean, there's a passionate connection there. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, is there a secret to that understanding of that audience that maybe most Western rock bands misunderstand?

I think what we did was it's okay to scream. So, yeah, I think they had the same kind of like amount of emotion. You know, my fans, or every single rock band's fan. But they didn't know it's okay. to scream or not. So you just push that bottom. So then

the Japanese fans very sweet and then but also again it's very emotional as well. So if you just say it's okay to scream

and if you know, then they can be louder than anyone in the world. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know this about you

but I was doing my research about sort of the DIY roots of the band you know because again my first

connection to your band was you were this massive people at the time were saying this band is as big as the Beatles. They're like they would call you the Japanese Beatles or something. You know what I mean? This massive band.

So, but I didn't know there was a DIY route that you formed your own record label to put out the music. Can you talk about that experience? Because like you said, there really wasn't a Japanese rock business when you started. Right. So I was very influenced by punk rock. So at that time, some rock band, I mean, there's an amazing rock bands there, they are all trying to be signed by major label. So then, of course, the critics are very important for that time. I mean, still, but then...

Less so. It depends how I look at it. But so then I was told for so many, you know, critics. Even like my guitar player, Hide, he passed away. But he was kind of like a core leader of the Japan. So, you know, if we can be good friend with these critics, you know, he'll open the door for us to be signed by major label. I respect that everything, but I was like,

I just want to do something crazy or just, you know, I had some kind of vision. Just I didn't want to fall into this, again, the same thing that you want category. I was like if, you know, I don't want to follow the rule. So why don't I just create the new label? So those punk rock band had their own small label, very small. But that was kind of like a trend. Okay. Yeah.

How did you get the money to start your own way? Well, so I asked my mother. Was she supportive of you playing rock? So it's kind of a little deep because my father took his own life. She apologized to me. She said, I chose the part of the part of. now who abandoned you. So I was like,

it's not your fault anything, but she said, she felt like she owes me something. Like, Mom, I'm okay, but let me do what I want to do. But at the same time, you know, she said, stopped in Rockman sometime, you know, so when I was like at 20, 21, like, because I was supposed to go to

music college. For classical. Yeah. So there was, how do you say, scholarship. That scholarship. But I said, I'm going to do rock. So anyway, she said,

maybe I'm going to do a few years and I'm going to give up or something like that. Then we are talking. Then I want to create a label. Then can I borrow money? How much? Like, maybe 100K? Like, she said, okay. Oh, wow.

So I'll say I'll return probably within a year or something like that. Then she didn't believe me, but I made 10 times more. They returned it to her. So anyway, so we decided to make our own album. So then the album sold a lot. So then eventually we said, new record. Yeah.

At what point, because you talked about having a vision, and I think this is very ahead of its time, it's almost like you didn't just build a successful music band and brand. You built almost like your own world. And like you said, some of it was just accidental. I played the piano when I had the stage.

The fans loved it. So it becomes part of what you do. But by the mid-90s, I mean, X-Japan was this massive business. I mean, you're selling like crazy amounts of records in Japan. I mean, even if you Google right now and you say, who's the biggest rock band in Japanese history, it's X-Japan. They say, there's some other band, I don't know, but they said maybe you could argue this other band is bigger.

But at the end of the day, the real influence is X-Japan. So even now, you're still considered the biggest band, rock band ever in Japan. And you know because you grew up there, but I know because I know my history. Like bands like Deep Purple were massive in Japan. I mean, they weren't just successful bands that went to Japan. I mean, they were massive in Japan in a way that was even shocking to the bands. So to be a bigger band than those bands in your home country is an incredible accomplishment. But at what point was this your vision that you sort of almost built like X Japan world?

Because it seemed that you were ahead of the curve that the band could be bigger than just a music band. So the New Year's Eve in Tokyo Dome. What year now? A long time ago. So there are all those, let's see. somebody like Michael Jackson or like Bon Jovi or those people or Jackson they are doing their New Year's Eve concert in Tokyo Dome that was like a big amazing Western artist

you know two nights of so then eventually we took over first Japanese artist at that moment like we might have made it Who was your, was Mr. Udo your promoter at that time? At that time, who was a promoter? Now we work with Udo, but it could be, could be. Yeah. I'm just curious, because we always work with Mr. Udo in the 90s.

Oh yeah, yeah, they're amazing. So they are one of my promoters. Yeah. So we did not know, like, so like what's exactly success mean? Yeah. But where is the vision for like making the brand as part, you know, because you were ahead of the curve of understanding that you could do other things with the band's success, not just sell records? When I tried similar things in the 90s in America, I was told no. No?

I was told no. I was told no by people in L.A. When I tried to make my band bigger than just a music band that sold records, I was told no. No. Now it's understood that that's what you do. Right. I mean, now you have Yoshiki credit cards. I mean, you expanded your brand, and the solo members of X Japan went on to also have their own individual success. So you guys were ahead of that curve more so than Western artists.

But I'm saying who was the vision on this idea that the band could be a brand? Does that make sense the way I'm asking it? Yes, yes. Because, again, I look at a big picture, sometimes way too big. Even a lot of my people say, just focus on something. I'm focusing, but there's basically no rule. We are just living in the world of somebody, like even music industry. like you know so even

entertainment business record industry business why do we why do we sign through the label why do we make some music like you know an album like once a year twice in two years

then do tour I just have you know the system when I look at it it's because I also love classical music like you know let's see 200 years ago what Beethoven was doing

or what Mozart was thinking. Or like, let's see 100 years from now, what's going to be happening. So there's no rule. I mean, these are very small to me. So you don't have to follow, you know, again, you can be musician or slash fashion designer. Or, you know, I'm also great wine. There's no rule to me. Right, but you understand.

you were way ahead of this idea. Now every pop star thinks this way. And in many cases, rock bands do too now. But you were thinking like this in the 90s. I mean, we were over here in the grunge moment where it was very much about authenticity and, you know, the critics deciding who was cool, not cool. I love it, though.

Yes, but if you think about it, it's not good. In many ways, it wasn't good for business. I love the kind of like a hair metal was destroyed by well that's true there's truth to I was I was

it was so exciting the Nirvana smashing pumping Were you were you guys paying attention to what was going on in America in the 90s? At that time probably we I came to America around that time yeah

just when you kind of started living here yeah yeah that was a transition and I was like wow it's amazing like you know I respect Back to Hair Metal Band, too. These things are like, you know, kind of revolutionizing. That's exciting. It was a very exciting time.

I didn't hear a ton of grunge influence in your band's music. You guys seem to not... We do, we do. You think so? Yeah, you'd have to tell me which songs. I didn't find them. Because I think you have a distinctive style. So I'm saying that's a good thing that you weren't necessarily influenced by what was going on in America at the time.

To me, like a grand style is more like, how do you say? Is it more an attitude? Attitude and then artistic way of, you know, more like in your heart, like... Authenticity. Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, there's some certain style of music as well. Yeah. But we do have that kind of influence.

Okay, yeah. Because I went looking for it because oftentimes bands are, you know, they are influenced, by the things that are going on. Because part of your story is, you know, ex-Japan became a phenomenon in Japan, but the phenomenon didn't necessarily translate outside of Japan. That's part of the story of the band. Now that's grown over time.

That's a different story, but... Did the success affect the members' relationships? Because you had so much success. I mean, more success than I ever had. You know what I'm saying? so it's hard for me to understand what that must feel like, especially in a country like, because really, if you think about it, there's only two countries in the world where that sort of success translates into a cultural phenomenon, the UK and Japan.

America, of course, it has it, but it's so big that by the time it gets there, it takes a long time, where in Japan and the UK, it can happen very fast. And for you guys, it seemed to happen fast. Did it feel like it happened fast? Yes, very fast. So did that affect the internal relationships with the band members? Did. Yeah.

Can you tell me, just tell me how? Yes, probably we can somehow relate to because, you know, I've been the leader of the group. Yeah, wow. You get all the blame. Yeah, I tried very hard, but, you know, it's hard to explain, but suddenly a lot of money came to, you know, band. Also, the lifestyle was changing. When we used to tour, sometime we were sleeping in the car or, you know,

some parking lot or even park or something like that. I used to enjoy that. Then now everyone has their own suite room and blah, blah, blah. I, yeah, then when I really, So then I wanted to go to America or, you know, Western music culture industry to try, right? Because I was kind of fearless. Were you thinking, sorry, were you thinking that I need to figure out

how to take my band into the world now? Okay. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. So, yeah, because we went to from, let's see, club to Tokyo Dome, like at the speed of light or something like that, just very fast. Crazy.

So like, whatever I said, I'm going to do boudoucan six months from now. Like, you're still playing club. Like, no, I'll do it. Then when I set the goal, I was like, I just made it. Yeah. Like, okay. Then we played bidogar, so I played Tokyo dorm. Like, okay, when?

Six months from now. And then, Sony said, no, you can't. Okay, no, I will. So then we did it. Then six months later, I'm going to play three nights. Then the labor said, no, you can't. No, we will. Then I said, now we're going to America.

Then blah, blah, blah. So the curve from a club, playing club to Tokyo dormer so fast. Like, that's so steep. Then from there, I came here in America. Then, like, wow. It's a complete. different world. So first of all, at that time, I spoke zero English. Zero. So, early 20, no, mid-20. So, wow, I need to speak English, you know. So I started studying. Anyway,

then all the band members came. Then we had to start from the gate go pretty much. Everything we built in Japan, but that didn't apply anything here. Oh, I see. So then, you You know, everybody lived first one year here. But whenever we have holiday, what I mean by went back to Japan? Because in Japan, we are treated like rock star. Then here, we are nobody. I kind of loved it.

But so the gap in between those two worlds are kind of like, I don't know, slowly start separating us, like, what you want to do or you only feel accomplished, why you want to be, you know, go higher place. So then to me, I try to, I don't know, the organized the band, let's try to, you know, if we can do it, we can do, how do you say,

do something in Western music industry. Yeah. But it was not easy. So we started slowly like falling apart. Oh. That must have been difficult. Very difficult. Yeah.

Because looking back now, because we see, of course, the success of BTS and other international artists where they don't even have to sing in English. Like if you had had those same opportunities, maybe most people in the West would know your band the way that the Japanese audience knew your band. But at the same, yeah, so I kind of know them a little bit, a BTS and those people. They also worked, the K-Pop music been also working for a long time, little by little. They didn't make it like the success overnight. So I very respect their K-pop world as well. So, yeah. But you understand because you, you, you dealt with America, you came here and you're like,

okay, wow, this is a big difference. Yes. If we're going to solve this, if it's a problem. 30 years ago, the idea that a band could come, especially from Asia, sing in their native language and be successful in America, the chance of that happening was zero, 30 years ago. Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, loudness had had some success, but, you know, for the metal fans, you know what.

Right. But always the compromise that the artist might. sing in English. Now it's totally understood that you can be successful singing in your native language. There was even a huge controversy with Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl this year because he was singing in Spanish. Right, right. But if you really think about it, he's singing in the language that he's most comfortable in and he's just, it's just music. Right. Right. So what I'm saying is, I'm trying to at least explain to people that the idea of a Japanese band coming to America, in the 90s at the height of grunge and try to figure out how to be part of the Western music culture.

It's actually a lot more distant than it would seem today. Right, right. You agree with that, yeah. Yes. So I kind of put the same format. I respect the culture, so I start learning. At the same time, we don't have to belong here. That kind of same.

so stance I get it we are who we are so again with respect so that's how I was like you know

I tried we came here not to become Western music band as a still still have the identity of Japanese group

so that's I've tried to convince I talk to label or members you don't have to change you can be who we are then we can still make it

about that moment that I had three decades ago was hard to convince yes yes would you meet with music executives

in America and try to say this is my vision and they agreed with you or they told you you were crazy I versus I was crazy yeah

pretty much hands down like yeah yeah you have to do this yeah then I listen to

I respect it that, but my vision was different. Yeah. So I'm not interested in why the band broke up. I mean, bands break up stories. There's the real story and there's the public stories. I'm not asking you for the real story. But it strikes me that the band breaking up was particularly painful for you,

that it wasn't, that it came at a bad time or not. Maybe it's never a good time, but how do you look at it now? because obviously the band is endured, the band has reformed many times in played concerts, and the band is loved and revered for what it's accomplished. But at the time, how did you feel with... Extremely painful. I mean, I'm like what really you went through.

So, um, a band is still here. It's, yeah, broke up, and then came back and then. So the most painful moment, still very painful was the death of my guitar player Hideh. Then the Taiji, I fired him, but before he killed himself,

I brought him back to the stage again. Oh, maybe we broke him back to stage again. they were going to do something together but then also other bass player so those members it's hard to bear still

I really thought why that was not me I was telling he did that you know the guitar player for some ways we talked about death. I'm strange, but

because I don't know, I keep talking about death, then like, I'm going to die first. Something like this. Not in a, like, more dark way, but so that the word

death was always in me for some reason. Well, obviously, because my father took his life. So at the same time I try to use that so it's a more more positive way because

worse comes worse I die tomorrow so why don't I do as much as we can today to you know so I had some

still have like not depression but like if I start thinking too much I go to the darkest corner of the night or something like this So I try to shift that energy into something positive. But to face the death of band members, I was like, what did I do?

So if I didn't ask them to join, because I pretty much headhanded every single band members. They are also leader of the band. So for me to create the biggest band, I had to headhand like the band leaders. Anyway, so if they didn't join my band, maybe they are still alive or something like this. I was like just, that really... Yeah.

Well, you know, in Western psychology, they call it survivor guilt. Do you know this idea? Oh, yes, yes. Where the survivor feels somehow guilty that it should be them. I have it. Yeah.

Still. I saw this thing in this documentary where your mother was talking about that she thought you were not going to make it to be an adult. Was it a psychic that told her that? No, physically I was so weak. I had asthma, asthma attack. So it was a doctor that said that you weren't going to survive? Constantly. So I was pretty much like a living hospital.

when I was a kid. So, yeah, physically very weak. So then, yeah, doctor I was telling my mother, she's not going to survive. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know this about you, but I saw where you work with George Martin.

You probably a class school album, 93? Something like that. Yeah. You're not so good with the day. You're amazing. No, I have to do my research. But that must have been a big thrill to work with George Martin. So I learned orchestration after I worked with George Martin.

Yeah. Oh, so you studied it after you worked? Oh, okay. Yes. So it was like English. Like, I know when I came here, I spoke to English. I see. So he did the orchestration for your classical.

This was your first classical album, yeah. My first original classical album. Yeah. I made like a Yoshiki selection, something like this. before, I just picked this song from Beethoven or this from Chikovsky. Oh, I see. They made an album called Yoshiki Selection. I made two albums, so it became pretty big sales.

So then I was like, might as well make my own classical album. So then end up working in George Martin. Wow. Yeah. So these were all original compositions that he... So he translated like, let's see, 70. 80% music, which I composed from X Japan song into classical music. And then he?

Yeah. Wow. They also wrote 20, 30% music to just classical songs. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Can you tell us, because not that many people in their life work with George Martin, could you understand having work with him?

Could you understand why he was such a successful producer? Yeah, he listened to the artist. So even though that time, my English was very limited. So he must have a hard time, understanding what I'm trying to say. But so I play the piano, this is why I want to do this. And so this place I don't like staccato, I want to legato or like, you know, I try to give him as much as input as possible. But then he absorbed all the.

those, you know, what I want, then he made something even better, something like that. Yeah. Well, that's what a brilliant person does, right? Yeah. They almost make it better than you can imagine. How old were you when ex-Japan broke up? You're still pretty young. 30 to early 30s.

Yeah. First time when I broke up, when we broke up. Yeah. could you have envisioned then that you would go on to all this other success in life? You know, like you said, I mean, there's, you know, in English we say polymath or autodidact. You know, you went on fashion design, you have your own wine label, you work with some of the biggest brands in the world. In many ways, you're more famous than you were in X Japan as your own person, which is very, very, hard to do, as you know.

I was very confident at that time, regardless. But also, Hide and I was thinking, well, the reason we broke up was my dear friend, Toshi, the vocalist, he was brainwashed. Yeah, he was in a cult or something, yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I saw that and I thought this is so crazy. Yeah. So to make the long story short, he was doing some musical.

He was, how do you say, he met the musical heroine, the partner. Eventually, he ended up marrying that lady. Okay. Yeah. She was in, I don't know if I can say that, but yeah, I think so. in the cult. So then she dragged him into the cult. Wow. So then I think what they do is they make enemy, right? So then I was the enemy. But that's typical to cults. Yeah. We're the good team. Yeah. They're the bad team. We know the right way. They know the bad way. Yeah. And they isolate the

person. Exactly. So yeah, he was isolated. Yeah. I didn't know how deep he was in. Anyway, so then one day he came to, for some reason around that time, a lot of people, a lot of members living in Japan, then I was living in Los Angeles, then came here and then said, I want to leave the band. I was like, I actually grew up with him. Like I met him when I was four, five years old, when same elementary school and everything. So when I saw his eyes, I was like, okay. I think that's why you want. So I didn't really say, try to stop him or anything. Like, I kind of understood.

Then, but He did. The other member was very angry and then, no, he can, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I was very calm. Then, you know, Hidé and I talked about maybe we can do Japan, you know, a few years from now again. So when things said one more, timing's right, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I was doing my own thing. The Hide was doing its own thing.

Then Toshi joined the cult. For some reason, I was not angry or anything. Very calm. Like, like, um, then several months later, Heide passed away. That moment, I was like, like, everything, like, shattered. Like, um, that I became very depressed. Um,

then I decided not to do anything. Actually, I just didn't want to even leave my house. Just, I didn't want to open the window. Just staying in the darkness. Did it bring up a lot of feelings too because of your father's passing? Yeah, somehow those two, you know, I mean, a few decades apart, but it was kind of like hit me. Very hard.

Yeah. Yeah. So pretty much I didn't. Well, I decided, at that moment, I decided to be on stage and not be on stage. I not be on stage. Not be on stage. I quit, basically. I tried to become a composer.

Oh, you were just going to go behind the scenes? Behind the scene. I see. Not the, you know, performer. So then I told my mother, I'm not going to perform anymore. I've just become composer. then just composing songs.

Then maybe producing artists something like that but that's too painful to face this anymore.

Wow. Then about year later I was asked to compose the piano

concerto for Emperor of Japan the 10th anniversary of his

reign I was like what? I feel very honored And then at the same time I was not confident at that As I was in the darkest corner of the world They asked my mother

What should I do? She said you should do it Then I end up composing Like seven, eight minutes I actually composed 20 minutes long But I condensed it to seven minutes Because the ceremony Some lengthish or something like that

Then I ended up performing the Imperial Palace with orchestra. Then I heard that, like, I don't know, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000. I don't remember, but the audience screaming voice of the Imperial Palace. It's like, wow, I should come back to the stage. Yeah. Wow. Very powerful. I'm curious because you've lived.

You've had such tremendous success in Japan, but you've been in the U.S. for three decades. And you know, of course, you know many musical artists, U.S. musical artists. What have you learned about American culture that you could only have learned by living here for so long now? Are you fascinated by the culture? I mean, you know, obviously Americans have very diverse opinions about American culture. Right. But you coming from an intense culture and Japanese culture, America culture, what if you learn to understand about American culture?

American culture is, well, especially I live in Los Angeles. As you know, that's a whole other planet. It's, you know, of course, I go to Chicago sometime or New York a lot. It's very, how do you say, mixed, right? A melting pot. So we learn a lot of defined countries' culture being here.

Yeah. So, which is, I think which is amazing. Being in Japan, like, I'm not saying it's bad or good, more, less dimensional. Okay. Right. So being in America, it's like a multidimensional thing.

Yeah. Yeah. I still learn a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You could see because when you have success as an American artist in America, it's such an intense experience because you have to draw from so many sources in order for it to work. You know, like take the grunge revolution, you know, it has Black Sabbath in it, it has cheap trick and it, it has kiss and it has, you know, Husker do. I mean, that culture, that alternative culture, the cure, Susie and the Banshees, it drew from so many sorts. that when it finally kind of came together, it was like, it was so intense for everybody involved.

And then there's like, wow, this is really working. And, you know, for 300 million people. What is the Japanese population, like 80, 80 million? Does that sound right? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Oh, in Japan now? Yeah, what is it?

No, 100. 100? Yeah, yeah, more, yeah. Yeah. I think maybe it was 80 before, that's why. I was thinking about this because you've had success in so many different ways and you've become world-renowned not just as a musician, which is, again, an interesting thing to pull off.

Because, you know, usually when you're a musician, that's all anybody sees you as. You're just a musician. And like you said, you had the experience of being successful in the classical side of the thing. Like, as we're about to tape, you're about to play these shows at the Walt Disney venue. I don't know what to call it. Concert Hall. Disney Concert Hall, yeah. That means beautiful venue.

And you're playing two nights, right? That thing. Where am I trying to go with this? I'm lost in the idea. But I guess, is there somebody behind the scenes that helped you build this kind of Yoshiki empire? You know what I mean? Because like when my wife first met you, it's like, it's hard to explain. who you are to my wife. Like, I know who you are, and we have some of the same friends. So we all know who you are. But to someone like my wife, it's like, where do you start to explain who Yoshiki is in

2006? I could say, well, he used to be in this big Japanese band that sometimes they still play, but he does all this other stuff. Like, the day you told me you had your own credit card. I was so impressed. How do you get your own credit card? Is there somebody behind the scenes who helped you build this kind of empire that you have? Is there a secret business associate partner that we don't know about?

Or is it really just all going through you? First of all, you know, it didn't happen overnight. Also, there are so many not-success story as well. So, you know. Okay, give me one big failure. Good question, actually. Well, somehow all those failure moment, I made it to success, eventually.

Oh, I see. So once you say I gave up, then you fail. I see. So if you don't give up, it may take another decade or two. So if you say, no, it's still in the process of doing this. Is it a positive mental attitude, or is it something born of strength because of the hardships in your life? It's like how you take like a, how you take, like,

embarrassing moment right so I take it like I blame myself so pretty much 99% this is my fault

so this is my decision so I don't blame anyone else so I decide to I decide to do this then okay that means I can improve it from here so

then And I say I failed this one, as of now. But it's not the end. I see. So that's kind of mentality. So I guess. Then, yeah, so once you stamped, it's done. Then, okay, that project was failed.

Yeah. Yeah, all those, like, again, it's kind of strange, but I didn't really plan. like my wine or something like this. I happen to have friends that are drinking, like a collection of an amazing wine. Then somehow start drinking wine a little by little, not like heavily, but then someday the Mondabi family,

Robert Mondi family, they may want to collaborate. Like, okay, so. But it took a long time. It's like first five years was very hard. But I didn't want to quit. So they took off, like, you know, six, seven years later. Now I've been doing 15 years. Okay.

Yeah. You make it look easy, that's what I'm trying to say. Even in fashion, you know, it's like a, I'm maybe doing all those things a decade. Yeah. How's so, Yoshiki, yeah? Is it Maison Yoshiki? Yeah, there's like a new one. I launched a few years ago in Paris in that process of,

Yeah, it's not easy, actually. Work really hard. Well, I know you work hard, yeah. So I don't mean to make it seem like. But I just wondered if there was somebody behind the scenes that helped you put all these things together because... I think I have a lot amazing stuff. Yeah, amazing business partners, I guess.

Okay. Yeah. Because it's unusual. I mean, I can't think of very many. other people in Rock that have transitioned into this wider brand business portfolio? I don't know if I'm doing all right. I don't know. I almost use the word envy, but you're a friend of mine, so I don't think of you an envious way.

I'm proud and happy for you. Thank you. But I envy that you've been able to take your success and expand it into other things. it's impressive to me because I know it's not easy. Well, thank you for saying that. So I want to be an artist. So, you know, eventually, like, eventually, like, we die, right? I die.

So then let's see somebody describes, something I described me after my death. Who was Yoshiki? Yeah. Then I would like to be known as an artist, not the... So then, okay, then explain this to me. What is it about business that attracts you when you certainly have enough success and wealth that if you just wanted to be an artist 24 hours a day, you could do that. What is it about business that it still attracts you?

Great question. So I don't feel like I'm doing a business. I'm still creating the art. Okay. Yeah. So more like some business could be artistic as well. It's all business can really, yeah. Right?

So how we are reinventing the culture or like, you know, especially these days, like, you know, AI world. And then I have my own AI as well, AI yoshi. I'm inventing. I mean, so, you know, artistic. way. So, I mean, there doesn't know right or wrong as of, you know, eventually people want to find out that was right, that was wrong. Yeah. So, yeah. Have you noticed, at least I see some movement that maybe in the last five to ten years, more business people want to talk to artists because they want to

understand the way they think and use that for business. Because artists get used to having to kind of make stuff up and change direction where business oftentimes is like here's the plan and we must and I think maybe the world is getting so dynamic that business people are almost having to think more like artists now anyway

do you see that? Completely. It's a lot of entrepreneur they are like a more like a rock star state of mind I think. Yeah. Yeah, very disruptive. Yeah.

Right. Yeah, I'm glad that you put that. Do you, do you, because you're, success is so unique, not just in Japanese culture, but also internationally, do you sometimes wonder, like, why you were sort of put in this position? Because you're very unusual in the arts. You know what I mean? I think that's a fair thing to say. Well, thank you for saying that. I'm still, I'm very lost.

Are you? Yeah, very lost. It's, I can't forget that. I'm very confident and fragile. I'm very secure and insecure. Okay. There's a, yeah, it's just, I can't forget it out. So, yeah, so when I.

I have certain goals, I'm very strong, no matter what, I'll get there. But I just get depressed and the cry, and then I don't want to see anyone. Then once I go out, I became very social. When I come home, I don't know. That's interesting. So I talk to psychiatrists sometimes, and then my doctor can't figure it out either. That's interesting. Do you have any spiritual perspective about it? Does it make sense the way I put it? I just believe somehow like, well, not believe,

I just feel like doing good deed. Like, yeah, I do charity a lot. So when I help people, I just feel good. Just like, okay, I'm okay to be existing. world. So that's kind of like, so in general, I'm very positive, even though my mind goes dark sometimes, but positive and then try to do something good to the world. Yeah.

In general. Yeah. What musical dream is still there? Because I know you have one. So what is the thing that's still over the rainbow for you? as a musical dream. A lot. I have a question about the music industry system as well.

I want to disrupt. Now there's a surprise. Can I ask you a question? When you are going through the grunge taking over that moment, what you are feeling? Like, we're going to be the, want to change everything? I felt I felt collectively inspired that we were going to change the world.

And I did an interview maybe around 1998, so not that long after the grunge peak. And they said, how do you view the time now? And I said a failure. What? Yeah. Because Gen X, if we're just lumping the people together, Gen X didn't accomplish everything that it could have accomplished.

Kurt's suicide was part of that loss. Like we lost momentum. A lot of fake bands came into the system that really didn't have the same values. It was just a commercial opportunity to now... I see.

You know, they went from hair metal to grunge and now it's the same. You know, so they sound like the bands, but they don't have the same heart. That's exactly what I was said. Like, X-Shapan has that in it. It doesn't have to be the sound format, more mentality or more integrity or like that. So once that was lost, that pure momentum was lost,

it felt like, to me, failure. But I think now is the time in 2026 and the time we're taping this, that I think Gen X is finally having it like almost like a comeback. So I feel like maybe there's one more opportunity for our generation to finish what we started 30 years later. So when you are top of the world, then they are up, upside, up, down, in between. Yeah. So you had a very hard time. Yeah.

Yeah, because, because, you know, it goes back to. to Leonardo da Vinci. When you combine pure art and money, there's always going to be tension and at some point a corruption of the purity of the idea. The internet affords us the opportunity to reach the entire world without the compromise of the music business.

The music business on some level is terrified of this because if you don't need the music business, If you and I can just make a song in a basement and the whole world will listen, well, you don't really need the music business. So the music business is still not really sure. And already the music business is hedging its bets with AI. So instead of hedging its bets with human beings, it's hedging its bets with AI that somehow AI is going to make them be safer in the market. Gen X, I think ultimately is about human beings. human capital, the spirit of the human being. So the most democratic music society in the world

is we're all musicians. We all speak the same language, even if we don't speak the same tongue. But I can listen to your music and you can listen to mine and we can understand the emotions and the culture and the world that we're coming from. The ultimate promise of music is that everybody has just the same opportunity. Right, right. But, you know, commercial interest is always going to be like, what about us? So they have to try to control the message or they have to try to control the flow of the information. Right. So the ultimate fulfillment of the Gen X promise would be that there's a balance there between human capital and business.

Because business is not negative. We need people to, create the systems by which we reach people, even if it's streaming services. We still want to be in communion, but we want holistic communion. We want people to be able to make a living. We want people to have every opportunity to sing their song. Right. Am I sort of answering what you were asking? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, so that moment was like a, you know, CD. And you picked. Yeah, right? So the music would be. business kind of went streaming to downloading to streaming. Yes. Then now AI is coming to then. Destroy everything.

Yeah. So then you've been, you know, going through all those. So what's going to be happened for the future from your perspective? Well, I ask you first. That's right. You're a guest in my show. That's right. I forgot.

It's okay. So what's your prediction? If you have a general prediction. general prediction AI is not going to go anywhere so I'm trying to figure out in a positive way to coexist

so there's a great side of AI I personally I don't use AI for creative process more like research or something like this as of now but like when internet came

some people are just opposed to all those like our iPhone or... Sure. So AI is not going to go anywhere. So, yeah, just trying to find the best way to coexist and then... Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes sense.

I feel the same, because you asked me, I feel that AI is here, technology is here. Young people are going to use it because why wouldn't they? If they're 15 years old and they're living in a poor situation, they're going to try to find everything that they can do to get their message and their music out. So if they have to use technology, they're going to use it. No different than the DJs in New York that were using scratch scratching.

They used the technology that was available and they made music. And no one can say it's not music. Right? So the question I think is, is there going to be a sort of moral center to the argument about AI? Or is the music in a business going to do what it usually does, which is sell the artists out to maintain its position? I believe there's going to be sort of a rebellion. It's not going to be 100% of the people listening or 100% of the artists. But there's going to be enough artists, at least for the next 20 or 30 years. They're going to say, we still believe in organic music. We still believe. even organic voices. Completely. I think so. I guess the question, or the answer would be, what's the percentage going to be? Is it 5%, 10%, 15%, 25%, I think organic music should exist more than 50%.

Okay, great. If you're right, everything is fine. If I'm right, I think it's going to be more like 25, 30%, that's going to be very difficult. because the consumer, the fan, will have to make a decision to support artists for being imperfect. I think it's exactly, so we are in a critical time, like artists like us,

you know, all those artists, needs to create something amazing. Basically, it's kind of sounds strange, but we are maybe competing against AI, but, so exactly imperfect. is great. You know, also

AI's other large language model they are basically the past information collecting the past. Oh, yes. So that's our past. So we are

present and future. Yes. So artists can create. So our crazy destructive mind, I think we are respective you as like

kind of we are kind of same artists like yeah because you know Billy you have been always constantly

re-innovating the you know even had amazing success they are still keep doing it I really respect that then

I'm also you know always reinventing that's that we have the future as an artist like artists like

that there are also a lot amazing artists we need to keep creating yes not like looking at the past all the time.

Yeah. So past is important, but future could be more interesting. So here's the way to end, I think, because I think this will give people the image that I would want to leave them with. What's a solo piano piece that you would love to play on stage? Just pick one. Yes.

Solo? Yeah, solo, just you. Can I be with orchestra? Solo. No, there's a reason I'm saying this. Just pick one. It can be even your own composition. Okay.

As of now, Beethoven, Muna Sonata. Okay, perfect, right? So you and I know that we could have a computer, play a real piano on stage, perfect, never miss a note, right? So we have to believe that people, are still going to want to see you sit in a concert hall like Disney and play that piece

because what you can do in the moment is something that a computer can never do. That's what people need to understand about AI. You have access to perfect. We literally could put a Yoshiki piano on the stage, press a button and it would play it perfect. But people will travel all over the world to see you play it because they want to hear what you're going to do, not just to play it perfect, but play it in that moment. Yeah. Also, you know, maybe you too, just when I perform,

I resonate with the, connected with the audience. So sometimes, sometimes I even stop. Really? Yeah. Or like, I had the show a few weeks ago in Tokyo, three nights of Tokyo,

like, 7,000 people, something like that, three nights. then there's a one moment I was like playing with orchestra there's like oh my fingers not doing right I started smashing piano like that

it's like then people say is that improvisation or something like you're angry or like no it's a combination or everything so it's very

unpredictable so you know when you had to show sometimes I was like I told the members one person

the other member we're going to start speeding up. Just then don't tell a guitar player. To just have fun, right? Sometimes I stopped and then left the stage and then, I don't know. What was that? Like, I just didn't feel right. Just all those crazy things.

Yes. It's kind of think it's valuable. I'm not trying to justify what I, so I need to approach that, a lot of staff and, you know, people, I made a lot of drama. and passed, but that's rock and roll on then. Yeah. Okay, last question, because I'm sure you've seen what they've done with ABA in UK with the ABA virtual show.

Kiss has signed a deal with the same people. Are we going to see at some point X Japan virtual show? It must have crossed your mind. When we did reunion concert, 10 years ago so, at Tokyo, we did, we did. play three nights. I wanted to have Hide and also we play Coachella. I brought bass player Taiji and Hideo hologram. So, but there's a combination of, you know,

Nii and Toshi and Alive Sikid or a member and hologram. So that's a combination. But if it's entirely hologram, Hmm I don't know I don't know if I I don't know What do you think

The entire member of hologram Smashing Pumpkin I'm not there yet But I can see where I know I could see where it would happen Do I want to be happy Are you going to be happy If you did smashing pumpkins Entire

I would I would be interested in it As an artistic idea For example, I'm 59 years old. So I understand, and we're very successful. We have very young audience. But still this young audience is seeing me not at 25, but 59. I don't look like them. I don't act like them.

I'm not them anymore. You know what I mean? I'm not in my 20s. There's something about young artists playing music connecting with the young audience that's always the most powerful. It was that way for the Beatles and the Stones. It's always the most powerful experience. Something about we're all coming to the same moment together.

I still want to go see smashing pumpkins. Yeah, like real, you know, I want to see you on the stage. Well, we're three quarters intact. So we have three of the original members. But my point is, would it be intriguing to me or you to say, right, You can't go back in a Thai machine and see X Japan 1994. But what you can do is we can create an almost incredible unique experience like a Disneyland ride. So it's the ultimate X Japan from 94.

And maybe it's the ultimate X Japan from 2004. You know, you might be able to create a unique experience that's not trying to pretend it isn't, it's the same. it's kind of what Gene Simmons talks about with what they're talking about with the people who are doing. They have a show, which is the idea they're going to create a new type of kiss experience.

So it seems like your band might be perfect for that to create a new type of concert experience that is obviously virtual, but at the same time, maybe you can experience something that you can't experience in reality. That's all. Yeah, I mean, I don't hate it.

Maybe I may love it, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, I think I'm very open-minded. So as long as like entertain people. Yeah. Yeah. But I still care about the, you know, people die, right? So if you make, because I also made E.A. Yoshiki will survive forever.

So that's kind of like cool and lame. Because the value of a lot. live because we only live a certain amount of time. That's the way of valuable. That's kind of fascinating. So if we live thousands years, you know, it's not interesting.

So I think like I'm not like fascinated by death or anything, but that's the amount of time. That's how, you know, same era we met like this and our audience. This is important to me. me. Yeah. So, you know, then again, I'm making my own AI Yoshiki, so I'm not denying that what's going to be happening.

But challenge is how we can make that more fascinating, more exciting, more exciting, than actual human being doing something crazy. I see. Thank you, Shik. Thank you.