The Magnus Archives - MAG Retrospective - Cast Commentary Part 2

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

We got some of the Magnus cast together to listen to their favourite moments and reminisce about the making of The Magnus Archives.Content WarningsSpoilers for all of The Magnus ArchivesPhysical violence & threatsDeath & murder (inc. discussion of character deathsDiscussions of: co-dependent/unhealthy relationships, body horrorMentions of: blood, spatial distortion, PTSD & trauma, grief & loss, COVID-19 pandemic, knives, food, spidersSFX: occasional beeping, static & distorted/overlapping voices, high-pitched tones, growling & roaring, vocalised suffering, building collapseFeaturing Imogen Harris, Ian Hayes, Karim Kronfli, Francesca Reneé Reid, Fay Roberts, Alasdair Stuart and Frank VossThank you to all our Patrons for your continued supportIf you'd like to join them, visit www.patreon.com/rustyquill.Edited this week by Nico Vettese and Jeffrey Nils GardnerProduced by Lowri Ann DaviesCheck out our merchandise available at https://www.redbubble.com/people/RustyQuill/shop and https://www.teepublic.com/stores/rusty-quill.You can subscribe to this podcast using your podcast software of choice, or by visiting www.rustyquill.com/subscribePlease rate and review on your software of choice, it really helps us to spread the podcast to new listeners, so share the fear.Join our community:WEBSITE: rustyquill.comFACEBOOK: facebook.com/therustyquillTWITTER: @therustyquillREDDIT: reddit.com/r/RustyQuillEMAIL: [e-mail] Magnus Archives is a podcast distributed by Rusty Quill Ltd. and licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Sharealike 4.0 International Licence Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the first radio ad you can smell. The new Cinnabon Pull-Apart, only at Wendy's. It's ooey, gooey, and just five bucks with a small coffee, all day long. Tax is extra at participating Wendy's until May 5th. Terms and conditions apply. Hello and welcome to episode 2 of the cast of the Magnus Archives reacting to their favourite clips from the show. Let's jump straight in with this gem. Is everything alright, Martin? It's fine.

Don't particularly like it down here. Ah, yes, of course. Hard to trust the doors, I imagine. Yeah, well, everyone else seems to these days, so... But she's still the same corridors, I suppose. I'm sure... What was his name? Tim! Tim Wood!

I'd really rather not talk about it, Peter. Very well. This way. Look, are you sure about that map? I'm pretty certain the tunnels change. Oh, don't worry about that. Ink's practically still wet. Not to mention, if they do change,

well, I happen to have something that will change them back. This is my favourite line in the whole show. That's a lightener. It is. And the, um, the blood on it? That's lightener too. Yes. Right.

Do you want to see how it works? No, no, I'd really rather you didn't mess with it. No, I insist. Watch. Oh, Peter. You end so very, very badly, but good grief, you're glorious before you go. I had to record that entire final episode three times.

There was some absolutely one-in-a-million technical fault when I recorded it on-site with Johnny, which meant it was lost. And then I recorded it at home in the Batcave, as you see, and the acoustics couldn't quite work. So I ended up going back out a second time. And Peter went out hard is what I'm saying. You know, hoping right up to the last minute, they might change their mind. Oh, it turns out he wasn't yeeted into the sun he had an escape capsule did he no no he's dead you insufferable insufferable old man i miss him i really do i loved how he went out i loved that

he absolutely is going to win and then he just drops off it's similar the way i mean simon with the awful d it just wasn't a very good idea exactly i remember a couple of months before the show finished talking to Zalia about how there was a couple of fan communities that Peter hadn't died, he'd just retired. And that there was this cabin on the shore of a Scottish lock somewhere, and he was just quite happy

by himself reading his books. We eventually concluded was that when the world does end and the Panopticon rises and Elias sees everything, Peter's life carries on pretty much as normal. I mean, it's not like the monsters are going to touch him. It's just he takes a little bit of time and modifies his umbrella a little bit. So when he goes out for walks, there is

an enormous middle finger on top of it. Oh. Oh no. Get down! Oh heck. Oh. Daisy! Out of the way! Let him go Daisy, out of the way. Let him go. Get out of the way.

Take the shot. No, you'll hit John. Take the shot, Vassera. Vassera, do it. Don't. I can't. Daisy, stop. Please.

Vassera. Oh, God. Daisy. Daisy. Please. I, God. Daisy. Daisy. Please. Or not. Basira. I know.

But, John. I know. Just give me a second. Basira. She knows who I am. She recognizes me. Basira. Basira. She knows who I am. She recognizes me. Basira. Daisy, come back to us.

You can come back. Please. Basira. Come. Come on. What? Come. Got to get them

this one was difficult oh god yeah the sheer amount of a conflicted emotion you must have had to put into that how did you find it yeah because like basira and daisy's like story is about loyalty essentially and for as like stalwart and righteous as she generally is it's really obvious from as soon as you meet daisy that like basira is always looking to turn a blind eye for daisy yeah that was made so much more explicit in processing line something like that wasn't it yeah when you're literally processing it yeah god that one was hard to do as well don't be listening to that going jesus this the layers that you had to put into this because yeah i mean because i feel like aside from the fact that it would just be easy to give

into the hunt there's always going to be a part of her that is just like i just want to be with my partner because that's where i know myself and that's where I'm safe and that's what I understand and that's my partner who I've poured these years of trust into and compromise as well I saw some commentary that would be like after Daisy came out of the buried that was like I don't feel like Basira is being very fair I feel like Basira only cared about Daisy when she was like with the hunt and she was strong and it's like she has never had to be strong for Daisy before Daisy has always been the strong one and now she's like cool i've got to do that i've got to balance all this horrible trauma and then it comes to this point where daisy's gone back to

the hunt and it's like oh this is so much worse than it ever had to be thought i wanted this turns out not so much yeah listening to this I went to a long walk at night I think this one and the previous one because I've been putting off listening to them something quite difficult about the idea because essentially for me it said goodbye to Magnus that was the last I was going to be voicing that character despite the fact you know you can barely hear it's me I got into quite a backlog because i just couldn't bring myself to listen and it was brilliantly done i just hats off to everyone there but also yeah that must be so hard to do i can imagine it took me like two months to listen to the final episode really yeah oh wow

just because i was like that's it it's over this is the end of magnus the end of Magnus, the end of Basira. Goodness. We're rather tetchy, aren't we? We've not been having an easy journey. John. What? It's true, we haven't. Well, in that case thank you for swinging by to my huge corner of the apocalypse. We don't get many visitors these days and dropping in for a long weekend.

You might be the closest thing the universe has ever had to an important person. I, wine. I mean, obviously you're still ultimately finite and all that, but altering the very fabric of reality, that's...

That's pretty good. Simon being impressed. I love it. In the most low-key way possible. Blimey. Do what? way possible. Do it. Blimey. Do what? Kill him. Hang on.

Can he do that? He can, and he's going to. Only in... Right. Seems a bit rude, to be honest. John? Just give me a moment. You know what?

I'll probably just be going then. I'd prefer to keep existing, if it's all the same to you. John, I... Been lovely chatting to you. Good to see you both. Feel free to pop by again when you're feeling less, um, murdery. John! Bye! Bye!

Feel free to stop by when you're feeling less murdery. Ah, glorious. It's Simon's arc across that, though, where he goes from, Hello, chaps, to, oh, oh, glorious. It's Simon's arc across that, though, where he goes from hello, chaps, to oh, oh, dear. Best be off. You need to remain very calm, and don't make any sudden movements.

Okay, now I'm worried. I'm about to die. Excuse me. Spoilers. Sorry. You need spoilers at this point. Don't you say a word or I'll cut him open. I know what the voice of yours can do, so shut it. Mm-hmm. Okay.

You can talk, but slow like. You try and do any of that word magic and he's dead. Understood. Hello, Trevor. John, what's going on? It's okay. Trust me. Okay? It's not okay! Stop f***ing smiling!

John, I know you keep saying we're safe and i am feeling very calm but just so i know can he can he kill me he could this is my death i asked for my death to be played back because i enjoyed it you died off stage stage. I know. Very inglorious end. Which I thought was so sad. I used it in the Trevor thing of like, I didn't get to be there with you. And I will get upset now about this because it upset me that Trevor wasn't there for you as well. And that played into the tragedy of this moment for me. It was like, oh. Yeah, I think that really did layer into it. And you can tell it in your performance. It's so incredibly full and beautiful and honest and raw.

And I think that is, you know, that sadness of not being able to be there for someone who took on your child role, if you will. I mean, not officially because, of course, it was dysfunctional in its respect as well. But, you know, and I think for me when I look back and think about Julia's end she always had you and then before that she was just incredibly overly independent and so I think there was a real tragedy to that end yes definitely and again the direction made everything sing and this I think was one of the first times because this was right at the start of Covid lockdown I think if we weren't the first recording in the new setup we were very close I think so everyone was learning everything anew but the direction was on point the sound design

is on point again and just the choices of the clips and the performance that they've put together makes such a lovely end absolutely and i think also there's no fat in the words there's nothing that's excess everything has a meaning and an importance and like helps with the storytelling and the pathos and i think yeah it was just so beautifully written and acted that it's an incredibly memorable moment for me. I need to ask you, because have you ever done a death on stage or in any production? Have I ever died on stage? I was trying to think.

Oh, there I go. There I go. Oh, no. Oh, like a little whimper like you've been sent out back. Oh, it's so sad. It's old yellow. It is literally old yellow, isn't it? You didn't deserve it. But when I was younger, I was in a massive production of The Mysteries. And I think maybe I got overcome by a locust at some point.

What a way to... Just one locust. It's very big. One locust that maybe I just breathed in and choked. No one could give me the Heimlich. That would be awful, wouldn't it? I don't know that I have died in many things that i've done i've definitely i was a murderer in one of the things i did just went around like snapping people's necks oh that's

nice yeah you know just a bit of casual i mean i think if you look at the science behind it i probably wouldn't have been able to have done what i did no but it's theater so you know can do anything absolutely suspension of disbelief. Magic what if. I got to play Polonius once, who has a lovely death. And there was a staircase, so I decided to die down the stairs. Was that a regrettable decision? Well, it hurt. I'm going to be honest with you.

It hurt. But it looked fabulous. And everybody said it looks fabulous. So I was like, no, we're keeping that in. Amazing. I like a good death scene, you know, because it means you've seen the story through to the end, hasn't it? Well, through to your end.

To be honest with me, Hamlet ends when Polonius dies. I don't see why you would go on. It's just a very moany man. It must have epilogue. Yeah, I suppose. It's really hard to die well. You know, everyone's looking for your breathing. That's the thing. So you shallow breathe and you blink slowly and I got away with it,

nobody saw me. Well done. Still doing that now. Well hey, I think it's a good way to live life. Shallow breathe and blink slowly. Please put that on a t-shirt somebody. I tell you my absolute favourite thing about any of this is how incredible all the fans are and the fan art the amount of incredible stuff i've seen drawn about like us juliet like the whole magnus archives is just off the chain i've still got as my facebook banner yeah i'm sat down and you're stood up and it's a beautiful bit of comic fan art i love it i've got all of the names written down of who people are. I can't off the top of my head remember, but I've followed a lot of them on social medias and

stuff and I've shared them and been like, I'm in this incredible production and look at these really talented people who love the production and look at what they've done. And then people have been just so blown away that I've shared it. And I was like, oh my goodness, I didn't realise what an impact I'd have on someone. So it just really gorgeous all around thank you so much for your love and your generosity do you know we're on a tarot pack I didn't know that I mean this is unofficial somebody's done a tarot pack an unofficial tarot pack and I did contact and say does Trevor get a card yes Trevor gets a card so I'm assuming you do too oh that'd amazing. What do you think would mean if somebody pulled Julia's card? What's the meaning?

I think that it is a period of intense forthrightness and being able to say, no, there's no yeses that aren't warranted or needed or wanted in that person's future. They're going to be able to advocate for themselves and set very clear, very strong boundaries. I think that's what that means. What about Trevor's card? What does that infer? You're probably going to have a s*** time and your knees won't be working very well. Bit of kidney pain.

Yeah, kidney pain, just general arthritis. Nice. All right. Well, look forward to getting that card in the deck. Fabulous. The last thing before i leave you one thing that i read that someone had written on tumblr about juliet they said she sounds like she wears a leather jacket and i was like yes mate oh yes she definitely does and i think trevor probably sounds like he smells like deep heat he absolutely does he's got tiger bum he's going in bad land picking up tubes of cheap deep heat.

Can anybody smell wintergreen? Oh, it's Trevor. It's Trevor. I've got you rattled. I'm not scared of you. Helen, was that a lie? No. A lie. A genuine untruth. Like a little bit of loose thread flitting in the breeze. Fine. You can go. There's the door. Just go. Ceaseless watcher.

No. See this lie. This golden strand of falsehood. Take it in your gaze and pull it. Follow through its curves and John and me, it's happening. I've always been your friend. Don't do this to me, Walter. I've always helped you. I have all helped you with the two laws. Think of all the players. I'm sure you know. If you do this, everyone inside me is dead. You are no different from me. You can't save anyone.

No. No! No! You can't save anyone. Take all that it is and all that it has. It is yours. No! Christ, John. Oh, I was so gutted to have to record her last bit. I really like lobbying for her right up to the end, telling Johnny about ways, you know, maybe she could be redeemed and the original helen could come back and the odd thing was because obviously started

off recording her with some blankets in a hall in a flat and then had the you know the glory years in between where we had that lovely studio and then right at the end obviously it was covid and lockdown so i was back in a flat under some blankets recording her where we'd started oh I'm sorry it has symmetry there was there was a kind of symmetry to it she was magnificent in her time well I mean definitely like in this bit when he's saying you know when he's killing her I was allowed to just beg for my life even up to the moment I like, if I can find the right thing to say, if I can say the right thing to Johnny, that I could just trip him up and he just won't complete this. Sadly, he was not for being persuaded. That's really good direction. The fact that

you were given the space to do that. There were a few sort of beats to hit, but obviously there would have been a lot of space of me just waiting quietly to die. And I don't think Helen would go out like that. I think she would try every trick in the book. The most direction I ever got from Alex was on my death screen. We did like five takes of it. I had a couple of nice discussions about certain things. And spinning, I think he was homeschooled, don't you know,

was a nice one to try and just get the level of cynicism and sort of snootiness just right. I think Alex gave me the direction. By this point, she's just the Cheshire Cat. She's just grinning so hard. She's going to disappear from tail up because this is exactly what she wants, except the tragedy that's about to happen. Ah, yes, the heroic archivist in his serial killer phase. Yes.

Yeah. I always remember Derren Brown talking about linguistic jujitsu. The best way to defuse a potentially confrontational situation is say something really stupid and unexpected, like, my wall's only four feet high. And if you can do that in between your teeth chattering, the other guy will often go, what? And then you can just run.

Yes, yes, about seizing control of the narrative. Exactly. Because all the time they are running it with, I don't know, demands for your wallet. I think one of the bravest things the show does as a whole, that moment quite early on in season five where Martin goes, you know what? The world's ended. Yeah, I choose violence. Let's kill them. Because it would be so easy for it to be,

no, we must fix the world and put it back together in a way that is good and the fact that little martin black was like no i want to stamp on these people's throats because they've done so many horrible things and my boyfriend can kick their ass it's just really cool it's very nicely handled yeah definitely i've thought about this carefully and i think we should destroy them all mart Martin, do you have any thoughts? Vengeance. And justice. For such a nice boy, he does hold deep, deep reserves of hatred, doesn't he? Well, to be fair, he's been through a lot by this point.

If we are going to fanboy about Mr Newell, I have to say I have never loved his delivery more than I think the final episode with the, Elias! Elias! Oi, d***head! never loved his delivery more than i think the final episode with the elias elias oi that was just so perfect as someone who spent a lot of time in york the fact that so much of martin season five survival strategies hang on i'm from the north i'm not having this it's just so great the other thing i loved season five, this is such a uniquely meta thing. It's the kind of thing that only someone like Johnny could do.

I love that after a while, Martin gets a bit off about the statements. It's at the exact point that they get all Baroque and weird and Johnny's going full on into his kind of amazingly surreal Cronenbergian prose structures. And the reason why it doesn't become pretentious is because Martin's like, oh, come on. All right.

I mean, that's not what most people look for in a boyfriend, is it? Exactly. And in a similar vein, I loved it when Johnny was away the first time and they were all having to listen to all the statements of all the really rubbish ones. That might be my favourite episode. And that's even discounting the fact I show up for the first time in it. Just no.

So what happened? Well, it was weird. Also, the whole show is just really good. And if somehow you're listening to this before listening to that, firstly, sorry about the spoilers. And secondly, you really should listen to all of it. It's very good. And if you like it, good news, there's loads.

Yes. So if you watch it and it's your thing you've got so much joy ahead of you I was live listening to the final episode with everyone else on discord

and there was a certain moment where a million voices typed out in terror Simon I still say he should have died a different way

he should have run off a cliff expecting to fly and fallen Wile E. Coyote like onto the ground to get away from the people who were chasing him with a moment of pause yeah his last word should have just been oh dear oh blast or oh no not again would that be too much of a cross

reference i just the phrase paddington but stabby just went went through my mind and won't soon leave. Oh, we had fun being evil, didn't we? Oh, yes. This was great. Oh, now I miss it. I've got to be nice all the time. It doesn't suit me. Always be secretly a bit evil. Huh.

Still works. You found something? Just one of the old tape recorders. God. Tough little bastards, aren't they? Yep. No luck? No, still no sign of them.

No bodies there. It's a good sign, maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe it's time to accept that they're gone. And honestly, it's probably for the best. I mean, I just don't think people would exactly be understanding. You remember what happened when they found Simon Fairchild?

Yeah. And he's not just some powerless, left-behind avatar. I've got to be honest, I want to know what happened to Simon Fairchild. Probably just threw him into the sun, like he deserves. Yeet! Do you know what's really odd talking to you on this in my head i picturing you but the soundscaping clicks in and i'm not hearing frank i'm hearing basira kind of thing yeah similarly melanie and georgie they're not yeah i hadn't really noticed until i've got this juxtaposition right now i had a friend who was

commenting that like they don't picture well that's john archivist that's not johnny sims that's uh martin that's not alex newell and then they were like but when i listen to basira i just hear you and i was like oh okay thanks and they were like you have the same resting bitch tone tone thanks for that well okay i know i caused some cognitive dissonance my sister so she started listening i was like okay she really loves horror and she just went but that's not you and i'm like well technically no it's daisy then she looked at the fan art and then went nope that's just way too weird daisy does not look like me any of the depictions I think I think a couple of people have drawn Basira to be like a little closer to me but I don't I don't feel like she does look anything like me I've seen people like

they've used my hair occasionally and I've gone okay you've clearly gone and looked at some photos that's cute mine is not very butch hair. So, and a lot of people are depicting Daisy is pretty butch. So yeah. Daisy's the kind of person that goes to the forest and cuts her hair with a knife. We didn't actually talk about that scene like at all. I just realised. No, God, no.

I just wonder. So how was it? How was it to do? It was satisfying, honestly, now that I think about it. Like I could go on and on about what does this mean in terms of character because i have probably thought more about the serious character than literally anyone if you write fanfic and you've done lots of introspection no it's still not as much as me 10 000 words no try being trapped in my head so i was really worried he was going to give me like a lengthy or just needlessly overwrought exit because he had told me before that i would be having the closing

line oh wow i don't know it just felt really good it just felt good to be really succinct just to be like yeah sorry about that bye yeah it did fit it fit with the character very well just very pragmatic and very kind of like well there we are then yeah because it's like what else can i say nothing i say is going to change what we've done and that's kind of the character basira has always been she's been an idealist wrapped in realist dressing it's that interesting dichotomy of idealist and cynicist isn't it yeah some of the most cynical people i know is because the world isn't living up to their ideals kind of thing which are lofty as hell so yeah she's a lapsed idealist

oh that's the thing with magnus you see everyone come in with what seems to be quite a clear-cut character and then it just shifts about that's the thing i really really enjoyed about it even though i kind of had things slightly out of order i didn't start listening into the thing until it was a little way into my episodes of season three and i'm like i should probably find out who it is i've just killed and then yeah i got into this routine of listening to them most days and you know if you kind of binge it like that you can see the arc quite swiftly although i occasionally see stuff on social media where people have binged the entire thing in two or three days and you go okay did you sleep how did you sleep i got really sick of turning up to record and just having alex and johnny be like so as you know and i'd be like i don't know because i haven't

listened to it because i don't listen to this show so eventually i did just like binge everything up until that point so it must have been like mid season three at that point i just binged the whole thing in like a week yeah it's odd because i tend to do it while i'm walking i have to do it while i'm doing something else i also don't want it to be in my house at night just seemed like a bad idea but there are these places in cambridge which are now indelibly associated with some of those flashbulb scenes so the apple and the teeth there's a specific corner of Parker's piece in Cambridge which is just that will always be the apple and the teeth do you have a favorite episode Frank binary hands down my favorite episode I think it's one of my favorite things that Johnny's ever written,

honestly. It's the one where the man eats the computer and then becomes inside the computer. Yes. I just have this physical memory of listening to that. Yeah. The way he describes being stuck inside the programming. And I think it's the bit where he's like, it's too sharp. I don't fit in here. It's too sharp and it hurts. And I was like, oh, it's too sharp i don't fit in here it's too sharp and it hurts and i was like oh oh god that's horrible i hate that how about you what would you say is your favorite there's a few from like season three that really stick most of the spider ones so the bits like where the man slowly becomes more and more enmeshed in that kind of amanuensis puppetry stuff as he becomes less mobile that sticks with me for lots of reasons is that the one though with the guy that had like all the machinery installed in his house

yes and he has threads through his limbs so that he's literally being puppeteered around the house oh yes yes that imagery really really sticks with me talking to spiders there's also visitor for mr spider whatever that one's called the one where we hear johnny talking about his past for once oh yes with the children's book it's very very good but it's because it's such a switch up as well because while the archivist kind of puts layers of himself over everything all the time we're always seeing it through his perception almost exclusively and that was interesting when the season started to open up and be we heard from people without the archivist there so you weren't you were hearing through several

different viewpoints that got interesting yeah there's also episode 100 where you were all taking staples i just was not expecting it to be that funny and just spent the entire time chortling which is not where i'd set myself up to be oh and the i think it's one that martin reads which is about an actor playing to like an empty theater or something like that again i can only remember like images it's very very visceral but i tend to go by the ones where where i can remember where i was when i was listening to it yeah so i have a rambling answer for that i don't have something nice and concrete no it's cool i mean it's cool that you remember stuff i guess like i remember when um i was being asked like what scenes do you think would be good for this and i was like i don't

remember anything same i finished the magnus archives and deleted it from my memory yeah it's been on isn't it just like oh okay well that's we can file that in a different part of the brain now instead of saying goodbye to it was quite i don't know about you that felt like a process i had to go through to feel like i was uncoupling myself from the thing so then having to be daisy again for that magnus fluff episode was just like oh wait what okay interesting i'm gonna have to re-channel this person who i haven't for a long time now that was an odd one because like you i'd kind of filed it magnus archives is in past now god i couldn't imagine trying to go back to basira now i know

it hasn't been like super long i know i joke about how basira's voice is just my voice but it's not it's not no your delivery is very very different like she speaks in a different like part of her voice to where i do and she speaks differently and just trying to go back to that now i think would be really difficult yeah a different personality comes through it's obviously it's your voice but it's also it's basira yeah there's a definite sort of shift at least i've got like a specific accent to kind of fall back on growling again is odd explaining to people a lot of the growls are just me people go wait what that's another thing i was just like i wish i could do that when we went to record because yeah i like i know there's like all those funky

effects on it and stuff but i'm like no that all Faye, just with some effects on their voice. The unknowing, the one at the end. Yeah. Where you're carefully counting your way out of insanity. And I'm just leaning into it as a character. It's almost like they balance each other out. And when they're not together, Basira leans too hard into her rationality and Daisy goes absolutely balls to the wall for murder. Yeah, that's an interesting take, yeah. But also they don't have someone to look out for as well as someone to look out for them.

Yeah. So there's not that tether. even used almost exactly that phrase was that basira is daisy's last tie to humanity or something very fucking victorian or whatever it was but yeah you can see it god johnny you're such a clever bastard it's just like so many back and forth echoes between so many episodes i think like everyone i started listening to it thinking oh these episodes are different from the things i've been doing there's been a lot more sort of interplay and stuff like that and watching everything, you know, build up and start getting those interconnections, the red string thing and all the rest of it. It's masterful is what it is. Just in terms of the sheer elegance of the plotting, that is still like, well, that's goals, isn't it? If I ever want to to write something even a fraction that epic i remember talking to johnny just jokingly being like hey do you want to hear what i think's gonna happen and he was like yeah sure and i was like i think john's gonna be the ultimate end all bad guy and i had no reason

except that the opening theme reminds me of voltaire's when you're evil that was it that was all my logic and he just stared at me and goes uh so about that whereas the opposite way around for me the first thing i did with him which again was supposed to be a one-off he just casually dropped in like a ton of spoilers some of which didn't come true i've been carefully carrying these spoilers in my head going okay don't reveal that whatever you did didn't materialise but yeah like the archivist accidentally starts the apocalypse so you know that's problematic

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