The Majority Report with Sam Seder - 2518 - Trump Administration Thuggery & The Coopting of the Military w/ Jeet Heer

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Majority Report with Sam Cedar, where every day is casual Friday. That means Monday is casual Monday. Tuesday, casual Tuesday. Wednesday, casual hump day. Thursday, casual thurs. That's what we call it. And Friday, casual Shabbat. The majority report with Sam's.

Starting point is 00:00:30 It is Friday, June 13th, 2020. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five-time award-winning majority report. We are broadcasting live to tape steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Jeet Here, National Affairs correspondent for the Nation magazine, host of the Nation magazine podcast, Time of Monsters. Also on the program today, Senator Alex Padilla, forcibly ejected and then cuffed in an attempt to ask a question at a press conference of Christy Noem. Pete Hagseth on the Hill

Starting point is 00:01:27 won't commit to obeying courts or to not invading Greenland It's got to worry about staying sober Exactly One thing at a time And more on the program today

Starting point is 00:01:47 To say this is a special version Of the Majority Report Casual Friday A couple of things make us special one we are pre-taping this because uh uh our co-host emma viglin co-host of the show um so my not our co-host i mean sort of i just don't want to make it sound like i'm speaking in the royal week uh m viglin's getting married this weekend and so uh we're we're off to the wedding and uh we figured pre-tape and what we did not count on was that i was going to have uh uh uh uh Novocaine applied to me this afternoon at the dental office.

Starting point is 00:02:28 I thought I was going in there for some type of, like, recheck on something, and they started to do stuff, and I'm like, wait a second. Is this going to wear off by the time my recording, and by that point it was too late? So I just want to make it clear, at least in this very moment, I am not having a stroke. It's dentistry-related. It is dentistry-related. I imagine as the show progresses, I will be in a better shape. But we are not live.

Starting point is 00:02:58 We will not be taking phone calls or IMs today. There will be no fun half. It'll be a freebie Friday, and it will be a little bit truncated. Bear with us. We will be back to regularly scheduled programming on Monday. In the meantime, it is a Thursday evening. Just hours ago, this bat-crap crazy stuff went down. We had Hegsith on the Hill today, attempting to testify.

Starting point is 00:03:32 We also had testimony from three Blue State governors. This is also coming in the wake of Donald Trump realizing in some respects that his immigration policies are beginning to really, alienate the country it turns out that when people decide between hey wait a second

Starting point is 00:04:02 you're not deporting you know criminal all the rapists there's really not that many rapists and I thought there was so many rapists murderers and what not And it turns out, no, just deporting moms and dads and workers and children.

Starting point is 00:04:27 And we got to go to the elementary school to find the big, you know, trend to Agua or MS-13ers, I guess, hiding out, embedding themselves in first and second grade. When people start to realize that and weigh it against, oh, I saw a Mexican flag in California, it turns out there's uh they still have a basic sense of of humanity not all I mean but but enough of Donald Trump's voters

Starting point is 00:05:00 so that he gets a little bit nervous that is all the backdrop of this and we will you know show you the clip I should say the truth social clip where he announces he's sort of supposedly um

Starting point is 00:05:17 I'm not going to roll up rural undocumented immigrants. He does one of these. We're going to see a lot more in blue states, if you ask me, and in cities. Nevertheless, Chrissy Nome is out in L.A. Senator Alex Padilla is also apparently in L.A. Understandable, since there's a bit of a crisis there. The president of the United States has sent in military to do what nobody's quite sure. So Padilla goes to the Christy Gnome press conference, and as far as we know,

Starting point is 00:06:07 attempts to ask her a question. And immediately, he is grabbed by. It's unclear who they are. The first guys who grab them, because they have no identification, and throw them out of the room. Here it is. Sir, sir, hands up. I'm Senator Alex Padilla. I have a question for the secretary because the fact of the matter is.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Now, it's important at that moment to note what he has said, that I think, think everybody can hear. I'm Senator Alex Padilla. Now, you would imagine the people from the White House would know what senators look like. I imagine, I don't know where this was. Do we know exactly where this was? But I suspect, based upon what I'm seeing in there, it's probably a federal building. Everybody's wearing badges like, you know, with the lanyards. It's quite clear at that point that it's Senator Alex Padilla because he just said it's Senator Alex Padilla.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Yeah, federal building. Federal building in, uh, in L.A. And that's important because the comms person from DHS claimed we had no idea who he was he didn't he didn't identify himself so it feels like he's identifying himself by saying i am the senator and then where you're at then you know finishing that sentence you'd also assume he didn't just like walk in there off the street well that's what i'm saying it's a federal building you cannot you can't just waltz into uh this uh this press conference and there's look at the dudes who are like shoving like they don't seem to have maybe their secret service i guess got a

Starting point is 00:08:17 lanyard on on the right here i don't know who these guys are go ahead i'm senator alex padilla i have questions for the secretary because the fact of the matter is a half a dozen violent criminals that you're rotating on your on your hands off On the ground, on the ground, on the ground. Hands upon your back. Hands behind your back. Lay your head, go ahead, behind my back. All right, all right, cool.

Starting point is 00:08:52 Hey, move in hand. Lay flat, lay flat. Other hand, sir. Other hand. Other hand. There's no recording loud out here. There's, I did not know. There's no recording a loud out here per up guy, right?

Starting point is 00:09:10 right there's a what i'm sorry there's no recording that's my boss have to there's no recording letter you can't record a senator I don't remember there's no recording letter I understand that sir it's a press conference

Starting point is 00:09:27 there's no recording in the building it's a press conference it says who now by the time folks hear the sound of my voice on Friday. There may be

Starting point is 00:09:44 more video that comes out. It's unclear to me if Padilla was just shouting out in the middle of this press conference. It's quite possible. Seems like it could be a bit of a, you know, political stunt

Starting point is 00:10:01 in an era of political stunts. And in a moment, it is interesting to me that that staffer was not recording him earlier now i don't know if that means that we got an edited version of that as that's been released or if he just started recording when he realized like wait a second my boss is getting shoved around not even be allowed to ask questions that noem can just you know disrespect uh here is uh padia out in front apparently spoke to uh christy nome

Starting point is 00:10:33 afterwards i can only imagine what that conversation was like If this is how this administration responds to a senator with a question, if this is how the Department of Homeland Security responds to a senator with a question, you can only imagine what they're doing to farmers, to cooks, to day laborers out in the Los Angeles community and throughout California and throughout the country. we will hold this administration accountable um he's right and we we don't really have to imagine too much there are videos out there people are seeing it people are seeing it on their news people are seeing it on their uh tick talk they're seeing it on their tick talk and whatnot i mean

Starting point is 00:11:34 and it it is fundamentally changing the perspective that people have on this It is shocking, I don't know if it's shocking that your average low-information voter thought that Trump was only interested in getting rid of criminals. Despite them, you know, regularly waffling before what they meant by criminal. It's just that the Trump administration's definition of criminal includes all, well, undocumented immigrants and incidentally there isn't you are not a criminal if you are an undocumented immigrant any more than you are a criminal if you got a speeding ticket it is exactly the same type of violation at least that first time you come in and then they're also doing this to

Starting point is 00:12:32 documented immigrants they're just revoking hundreds of thousands of people who are on uh... one form or another of protected status they are dismissing cases in this story came out in nbc uh... yesterday ral reagan had told had given us a heads up about this a couple of days ago immigration judges have been uh... instructed to dismiss cases and before there's an appeal As they walk out the door of the courtroom, ICE scoops them up.

Starting point is 00:13:14 So there are no legal proceedings that are actually happening because they haven't had an opportunity to actually formally put in an appeal. I mean, this is not, never mind not going after criminals. This is not even going after what they so-called, call illegal immigrants or undiagnets. or undocumented immigrants they're going after documented immigrants they're going after immigrants who are here involved in a legal process

Starting point is 00:13:46 there is no other definition and honoring that process exactly and now it's to the point where they are throwing a senator to the ground for questioning and at that very moment

Starting point is 00:14:06 I understand why Padilla is out in California because this is his state obviously and there's a lot of stuff going down here. But Chuck Schumer after enjoying probably a lunch of Vichy Swaz is on the floor of the Senate as a bunch of Democrats

Starting point is 00:14:35 I don't know how many half a dozen more, uh, vote for a cloture on the Genius Act, which is essentially going to make our financial system like the Wild West. And here is, um, Chuck Schumer. This guy has to go. Without objection. Mr. President, I just saw something that sickened my stomach. The manhandling of the United States Senator. we need immediate answers to what the hell went on i yield the floor and now let's go back to passing whatever it is uh we can do to help our friends across the aisle pass their legislation i guess schumer voted against it but he certainly didn't uh prevent

Starting point is 00:15:30 his entire caucus look i i'm not i'm big it's not my job I just want to make sure everybody's comfortable here. What kind of bull is this? I'm too busy trying to scuttle an Iran deal. All right. In a minute, we're going to talk to Jit here about all this and more. First, a couple of words from our sponsors. Folks, you know,

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Starting point is 00:23:10 40% off. Do it. All right. Quick break. When we come back, we'll be talking to Jeet here. Thank you. You know So, you're trying to do,

Starting point is 00:23:51 Titchin, jacin, jacin, jacin, jacin, oh, yeah. We are back, Sam Cedar, Sam Cedar on the Major Report, Emma Viglin, out today i should also say i am just now slowly coming down off of novocaine from dental work and so if i am over enunciating uh forgive me want to welcome to the program jeet here is the national affairs correspondent for the nation magazine and host of time of monsters uh it certainly is Jeep I mean

Starting point is 00:25:13 it is I chose that the name of the podcast for a reason and then what I mean Novocate come on man

Starting point is 00:25:22 but get with the times the ruling elite of America as you know for Musk is like you know they're on ketamine cocaine

Starting point is 00:25:30 ecstasy trumes I'm not saying that I'm not on those I'm just saying that they're not impacting my ability to speak

Starting point is 00:25:39 Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, but I mean, yeah, yeah, I just wrote something about this. I mean, it is a kind of interesting thing with, you know, Musk and others that, and if you want to include old-fashioned alcohol with HECSouth and others in the Trump Circle, you know, we have a ruling class that's stoned out of its mind and is acting like it. Uh, without a doubt. And all right, let's talk about, I mean, uh, we are recording this Thursday evening. And so the big news right now, um, is, uh, Senator Alex Padilla. We just played the footage, uh, before you came on. Senator Alex Padilla, um, was, uh, thrown out of a press conference, um, in, in a, in a fairly, you know, aggressive manner. I mean, this was, he was pretty aggressive. I mean, I, I mean, I, it was, I And I mean, I think you say violent. I mean, it's tough based upon how much violence we've seen with the cops and on horses beating, you know, protesters and folks like that. But this was, and then he was forced to get on his knees and then more or less like dropped to the floor while they're saying, put your hands behind your back. Now, one of the things about dropping to the floor is that your hands tend to want to go out and stop your face from hitting the floor. and he was cuffed.

Starting point is 00:27:10 I know you're working on a piece. Tell us more about your perspective on this. Sure, sure. I mean, I think we kind of have to see this as, you know, part of a pattern of Trump basically regarding both law enforcement and the military as his personal tools. That he, you know, people talk about like no kings and Trump is ruling like a king.

Starting point is 00:27:37 And I think that's almost like too generous because kings actually have some legitimacy and some rules. He's actually like trying to run the government like a warlord. And for a warlord, the military, the police, they all act as agents on his behalf. And certainly we've seen other cases of this, the mayor in Newark who was arrested, members of Congress who tried to get into the Treasury building,

Starting point is 00:28:04 as is their right, as is actually, you know, like both a legal and constitutional duty to oversee the government and act as checks, and they were barred. So basically, you know, like, when we're talking about Trump's, like, authoritarianism, I think this is the kind of, like, cutting edge of it, and I think it's something really worth paying attention to,

Starting point is 00:28:26 particularly on the military end. I always thought that, you know, the pivot point of the first Trump presidency really came after, in the fall of 2020 with the George Floyd uprising and his desire to use the military to crack down on that. And they turned him down. They rejected that.

Starting point is 00:28:49 And I think a lot of what Trump has been doing in the second term is to make sure that that situation never happens again, that he has loyalists in who will do his bidding, that he sort of like purged the military under the, cover of opposing DEI, you know, Prince and Military, of officers, especially women and people of color. And he, and, you know, like, obviously an even more vivid example is sending in the Marines to, like, you know, Los Angeles.

Starting point is 00:29:23 So, you know, Trump, you know, this is like a new meaning to America first. You know, like, we're not going to fight them over there because we're going to fight them over here. And so it is that, you know, like he sees the purpose of the armed agents of the state as to carry out his own personal policies. I'd also mention the sort of, I don't know how to describe it, the, you know, scandalous speech at Fort Bragg, where they kind of like vetted soldiers to make sure that they were Trump supporters and gave a speech to the military that was a partisan speech, attacking his enemies, attacking protesters as animals. You know, like, you know, one has to be cautious, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:14 because I think things could always get much worse. And, you know, we have to sort of, like, keep your rhetoric in with the moment. But, like, if there is a path towards American fascism, towards, like, a real, like, breakdown of democracy, it is the turning of the military into a private Praetorian Guard for the President. That's how it will happen. I mean, this is the top of the stuff I was thinking this afternoon after having seen that footage. I mean, I just remember in the first Trump administration late in it in 2020, I think it was.

Starting point is 00:30:52 Somewhere around there saying something to the effect on MSNBC, see i don't know if we're headed to fascism but we definitely have to go through this stage to get there and and i think like we're we are further down that road like this is not an isolated incident and and the the the speech at fort brag what must have happened or what must like i'm trying to sort of like in a different with a different administration how would this have gone down differently and you can apply this to the fort brag thing and you can apply it to what happened with pedia because it seems to me that when the president comes to address fort brag or whatever uh you know military the commanding

Starting point is 00:31:47 officer you know says like you do not respond to anything that has to do with politics right like i mean that is like the standing order that they all have and it really felt like watching that speech that they were not given that order if anything they were given the opposite order and you know even if it was implicit by the fact that they were vetted and i just wonder like is there a scenario where if marjorie taylor green had gone you know at a you know to a press conference that pete buddhajidj had and she got up doing this, would she end up on the floor or handcuffed? I got to think

Starting point is 00:32:31 no. Yeah, no, no. I think that definitely the rules of engagement have changed. It seems like you know, parts of the military and I think it's a different military. Trump has gotten rid of a lot of people that would have stood in his way and said no.

Starting point is 00:32:48 And he also has a Secretary of Defense that is much more compliant than he had in his first term. Let's play this clip. We have a clip of Hegson today on the Hill being asked, will you follow a court's orders? And this is what he said. Senator Baldwin asked you about the illegal authority for the Marines in my state.

Starting point is 00:33:13 I disagree with you. I thought, not only do I not want Marines in Iran, I don't want them in California. But I don't want to get a gotcha. You know, they said what provision your administration since then has filed in the federal district court? you're arguing that the Marines should be allowed to defend federal property. I disagree with you. That's your argument. Here's where I hope we can agree. Whatever the federal district court decides, will you abide by it?

Starting point is 00:33:39 Well, this is a pending situation. So will you agree, though, that it's not my legal view? It's not your legal view that makes the decision in America. It's the federal judiciary. If the federal court in California and the San Francisco district judge has, orders a preliminary injunction, will you agree to abide by the federal courts? What I will tell you is my job right now is to ensure the troops that we have in Los Angeles are capable of supporting law enforcement in there.

Starting point is 00:34:07 I agree with that, but will you... And we know you have the constitutional and statutory authority to do that. Can you just assure us that you'll abide by the decisions of the courts? We've always looked at the decisions. Well, the vice president has said that he doesn't believe that the court should be respected in military matters. This is not my lane, but we also recognize that the way in which the judiciary has expanded its powers during the Trump administration. Okay, let me ask you this.

Starting point is 00:34:36 Two simple questions. You get 30 seconds. I'm not trying to trick you. I think it would assure the American people. Because we shouldn't, it shouldn't be Rokana's view of the Constitution. It shouldn't be Secretary Higgs sets. It should be the Supreme Court and the federal courts. Can you assure the American people on two things?

Starting point is 00:34:50 You will respect any Supreme Court decision on this matter about whether the Marines are constitutional, and you will respect the district courts when they rule before the Supreme Court rules. What I can say is we should not have local judges determining foreign policy or national security policy for the country. So you're not willing to say you would respect those decisions. What I'm saying is local district

Starting point is 00:35:09 judges shouldn't make foreign policy for the United States. You know those times. Okay. Now, people Yeah, exactly. People could not see the look on your face. I could see the look on your face as Higgsith was refusing to answer this question. I mean, that's why hegs is there it's not because he can you know down a half a bottle of whiskey uh you know

Starting point is 00:35:32 at a sitting yeah it's not just because he's so tv ready it's that he's he's not going to you know he is going to wait for don't trump he is going to and if don't trump says i'm ignoring the courts then he's going to ignore the courts yeah no i mean like uh we're heading for so many different constitutional crisis, but this is like basically the core of it, that it is a view of the presidency that is like sort of the imperial presidency on overdrive. And if one wanted to be sort of more historical and a little bit more fair-minded, I mean, I do actually think that responsibility for this, you know, goes back many decades and to both parties, that there has been an expansion of presidential power and,

Starting point is 00:36:24 Congress has not taken its responsibility. But, you know, like in Trump, we're actually seeing where this leads to. And also that the sort of so-called guardrails have all been dismantled, are no longer there in the same degree. And it gets to a situation where, like, you know, it ultimately becomes a matter of force. It becomes a matter of troops on the ground. and the only thing that can stand in their way is going to be mass protesters is going to be like

Starting point is 00:36:58 this is the kind of situation where we're in and right now but even more rapidly heading towards because once we get a situation with the Trump administration if they do get unfavorable court rulings and they disregard them

Starting point is 00:37:13 you know like what is actually going to stand in their way Chuck Schumer? I mean like seriously like what is the actual I am very angry. As soon as we passed the Genius Act, I am going

Starting point is 00:37:26 to speak to John Thune about this. Yeah. But I mean, to give that sort of, you know, like not Schumer, but other Democrats credit, I mean, I think it's not only that like Alex Fadilla was mistreated, but he was actually doing the right thing. He was doing the

Starting point is 00:37:42 constitutional thing. It is actually they're actually like legal provisions where he's like, he is actually allowed to go where like cabinet secretary is and ask questions like that that is perfectly acceptable and in fact that is it's a job i mean it's a big part of his job is oversight of these agencies that's right and in uh and um i i should add that they're lying about this that the department of homeland security releases they've been saying he

Starting point is 00:38:10 didn't announce that he was a senator uh and if you watch the video very clearly watch the video he literally says yeah yeah i am uh senator alice yeah yeah so Yeah. So if it's a situation, I mean, like, basically, you know, the viewers and listeners will know, like, you know, Constitution 101, checks and balances. The courts and the Congress are supposed to act as checks. And in both cases, there's been a some level of compromise, particularly with, you know, some of the Trump judges, but also Trump saying people in the administration saying they won't necessarily obey the courts. on Congress, you know, like it's on both sides, I should say. Like the Republicans have really made themselves subservient to Trump, and that's a real problem. And they're not doing their job, but the fact that, you know, you also have a sort of peckless democratic leadership class that actually gets like mad whenever any of their members

Starting point is 00:39:18 of Congress and Senate actually do their job and stand up. remember when, who is the senator from Maryland who went down to El Salvador? Van Hollen went down there and there was other Democratic congresspeople and they were being chastised by Jeffries and by other Democratic leaders for going down there to attempt to secure Abrago Garcia's release. And I mean, he's at least, you know, he's back. in the country they're they're bringing charges against him i don't know the validity of those charges they sound pretty fishy um from my perspective but um nevertheless at least there is you know they were able to achieve some measure of due process and this is the thing that is so

Starting point is 00:40:10 in in raging about the democratic leadership position here because i consider myself a fairly pragmatic person when it comes to these things and you know there are certainly some things where it's like I'm sorry this is just too out of bounds

Starting point is 00:40:32 you need to you need to make us think about this but their failure to fight and push back when we're seeing that Trump is already like losing

Starting point is 00:40:44 and you know support on immigration and the reason why you lose support is not just because people sit there and make up their own mind you need to walk people through this and and and you said like you know there are some democrats let's play this clip uh maxwell frost uh apparently within minutes uh of of seeing this footage took a um this is matt can you what is it what are we watching here with this maxwell

Starting point is 00:41:10 process is just apparently them marching um to senator thune's office maxwell frost leading um some representatives here i'm not i don't think there's any senators here but this is just posted to blue sky like the 20 minutes ago so there's basically just some congress people i mean but i don't see hakeem jeffrey's there um no no no no absolutely i mean on the politics of immigration like it is actually um i mean this is a pretty good polling just right now uh strung it's kind of 50-50, except on the issue of the deportations, which a clear majority of Americans

Starting point is 00:41:55 oppose. Now, if you're, like, an actual opposition party that wants to regain power, then you actually it's worthwhile to take an issue that you're weak on and to try to change it. And the deportations are... That's like... That is... I mean, every...

Starting point is 00:42:11 That's the Carrow of 101. Exactly. Exactly. Bush v. Kerry. I mean, they went right at the fact that he was a war hero when Bush was AWOL. Yeah, yeah. And the deportations, the unpopularity of the deportations can be a wedge issue, which you can use to start a new conversation on immigration,

Starting point is 00:42:32 and that I think you can win on. Because if you're actually talking about we're deporting like, you know, like children, they're deporting people who came over to America as children, we're deporting people who worked here for like 30, 40 years. And now you have the business class. Apparently, like, Trump is even like, you know, obviously to retreat on this issue because he just posted on truth social, well, we're not going after the migrant labors in the farms or in the hotels.

Starting point is 00:42:59 So, I mean, obviously the business class started to phone Trump and said, like, what the hell are you doing? We meet these people. So this is an issue you can win on. And if you can win on immigration, which is an issue where, like, it's one of Trump's stronger issues, then you really have, like, in a really good physician. So I just think like it's like, just like, it speaks to, I don't know, this kind of servility, this surrender mentality that one sees in Jeffries and in Schumer.

Starting point is 00:43:30 Like it just, they do not know how to fight politically. But I want to be fair and say like, you know, that's not true of Democrats as a whole. And, you know, like the nice, the good thing is that more are becoming emboldened. And I actually think that the protests are actually emboldening like Democrats. Senate and Congress to, like, actually speak more on the decision. I think people are hearing from their constituents. I think, you know, like, aside from the leadership class, I think people in Congress and the Senate are having a better sense of where their base is

Starting point is 00:44:02 and what needs to be done. And I would also say, like, you know, like, I'm being perfectly serious when I say, like, you know, I worry about a civil war scenario, right? Like when you have American troops, you know, on the streets, fighting with protesters. And I think that the manhandling of Padilla is kind of like part of this. If you, you know, you go through the history of the Civil War. One of the incidents that historians highlight is when the Senator Sumner was on the speech, on the floor of the Senate, spoke against slavery, and then a southern senator came up and, like,

Starting point is 00:44:34 started beating him. Like, if you start having, like, violence against elected officials, that has a pretty good indicator that you're going to, like, start heading towards a situation. where people feel like politics is not the solution. And if politics is not the solution, then violence is a solution. And I actually want to avoid that. I mean, I'm not an accelerationist. Like, I actually think that, like, let's leave the politics aside.

Starting point is 00:44:57 Like, if Schumer and Jeffries were doing their, like, their duty as statesmen as, like, political leaders, they should have, they should think about the fact that their surrender mentality is going to make civil war more likely, not less likely. 100% you know uh i um i've had some conversations uh with or uh exchange some uh i've had some conversation with uh um some folks on the ground in uh laa and um the perspective of of of at least some of those people who are engaged in in the the direct action and i'm going to be careful about what I say here just because of agreements I made, but the perspective there is

Starting point is 00:45:45 not we're protesting or something like this. It is, we are protecting members of our community. We are in one, part of that is inhibiting and tying up the police

Starting point is 00:46:03 and the other is also just like trying to by a whole host of means protect people in the community and thwart what ICE is doing and part of the reason why people end up doing that is because

Starting point is 00:46:21 the politicians who presumably represent these communities are not doing it yeah no no that's absolutely the case yeah yeah yeah I don't do push the Civil War analog to further I mean that's what the abolition has found that was having to do

Starting point is 00:46:36 once you have the you know the fugitive slave act Like, if you, you know, like, if the political system has failed, then you're going to be put in a position where, like, you know, you're going to have to, like, go outside the law in order to protect people. And that is what we're seeing. And the more the Democrats, like, fail to address this issue, the more they fail to protect people, you know. And these are people who are, like, totally woven into American society, right? So it is, and I'll add another aspect of what Trump is doing here, because, you know, like, he's like setting, it's like he controls the federal army, the federal government, and he's setting it against the states that are his enemy. Like, it's not an accident that's going after California. You know, they're having these hearings on the so-called sanctuary states.

Starting point is 00:47:24 Exactly. Using the power of the government against states that he sees as on the other side. And that is also like a civil war situation. he's not presiding as the president of all America he's not like being the commander in chief with like an army that's supposed to protect all America it is the army as his personal

Starting point is 00:47:43 mercenary force and he's going to use it against the states that he sees as his political enemy and the FBI is going to go you know like manhandle senators this is like we're in a tinderbox here you know like things could very easily explode

Starting point is 00:48:00 in like very dangerous directions well I think your point about it's interesting because you look at those um uh the the governors who were brought in on the blue states and they and um by all accounts ice is ramping up in those states in those uh you know big blue cities um and in many respects these uh governors are much more sensitive to like where the you know the democratic uh base is, then the Senate leadership. I mean, it, you know, I'm not, I've never been one to be sort of like, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:45 Washington, this, Washington, that. But there are some of these Democratic leaders who really need to get out more. Yeah, yeah. And they are, you know, their views are completely ossified. Yeah, listen, they are getting out there. They're promoting books. Well, that's true. The great A-PAC meetings.

Starting point is 00:49:05 Yes, Chuck Schumer has been on book tour, to be fair, to be fair. Yeah, so, you know, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I mean, the Senate is traditionally the most insulated, you know. Hakeem Jeffries now has, you know, maybe like the passage of the Genius Act to go and brag to all those Silicon Valley people that we're on their side. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I mean, this is like, it's a two-front war, right?

Starting point is 00:49:41 Like, you know, we've got to try to stop Trump from doing what he's doing, but there's also like this kind of war within the Democratic Party. And, you know, like until there's like a leadership change and, you know, when it's seeing a situation where like, you know, whether you like it or not, David Hogg is kind of out there for trying to shake things up. And you have like, you know, Democratic representatives who are like in their late 80s and who are clearly suffering from, like, some level of dementia who are, like, going to run again, I just think, like, you know, unless we address that problem, unless this party

Starting point is 00:50:14 becomes more democratic in a small, deep sense, like, you know, like, you know, like, you have to solve both problems at the same time. Yeah, and I don't even, it's possible, one, you know, there's a sequence, too. going on. Like, it's, it's, that sense that there's nobody sort of driving the bus does not give people confidence. And it, and it definitely bleeds down, I think, into, into things. I mean, this. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, it's an astonishing number. I think like it's in the 70, 73, 74% of Democrats feel that their party's ineffective. Why, like, I mean, if that's your own supporters, right? Like, you know, like, I think, you know, like, almost

Starting point is 00:51:01 that's a wake-up call. I don't know what is. But do you think it's because they haven't rolled back enough of the regulations that protect low-income people or the environment? I'm just curious. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, speaking on that point, there's a bit of a digression, but I think it's very interesting that, you know, because like you, I'm a sort of pragmatist. And, you know, like, imagine pragmatist on the immigration issue.

Starting point is 00:51:28 Like, I do actually think, you know, like, in terms of, like, either. border control or, you know, concerns about effects on wages. We have to take this stuff seriously. But I know for a fact that, you know, like, Ezra Klein went after Bernie Sanders for, you know, like having a moderate position on immigration and say, you know, like basically making a case for open borders. And Matt Iglesias, you know, wrote a book called One Billion Americans, which, you know, you get one billion Americans by having, like, you know, far more open immigration than the U.S. has now. And these same people are now aligned with, you know, you know, the very forces of the Democratic Party that want to, like, cave in to Trump on immigration.

Starting point is 00:52:11 So what that says about their sincerity, political consistency, or, you know, even, like, ability to think logically, I don't know. Well, I have a sense of what it says. But speaking of which, there was a moment, a brief moment where – I think Rokana was one of the people. I mean, something that Rokana does that I like, but there's a lot of things. Yes, reaching out. But the idea that there was even an idea that that Democrats should go to Elon Musk, like, do you not see there's a problem if we need to run to a disaffected billionaire?

Starting point is 00:53:03 at a moment's notice, that's the answer for things? Do we not see that just a problem in general? Well, well, no, but I mean, I think this speaks to a broader divide within the Democratic Party. Because I do think the abundance people, they do have a kind of theory of politics. And their theory of politics is that the Democrats made a mistake in alienating the billionaires,

Starting point is 00:53:24 that they had, like, too much regulation of competition. And so people like Elon Musk and Ben Horowitz went over to the... been uh yeah yeah yeah and so that if we have uh bring back the billionaires and have good billionaires that would be uh that would um help the democrats and conversely you you know we have like the berny sanders physician uh which is that you know like you know even despite citizens united we don't actually need the billionaires we're actually better off without the billionaires there's really no good billionaires that we just do you know a small donor donation uh that makes us uh would make the democrats much less beholden um

Starting point is 00:54:03 to unpopular economic policy. So it's two, like, very distinct visions. And I do think that, you know, on the abundance stuff, like, you know, like, I don't know about zoning laws. It makes sense that you should reform some of them. But, I mean, the core of the politics is that these guys are very heavily aligned with, like, the idea of good billionaires and, like, trying to, like, make a billionaire-friendly politics

Starting point is 00:54:25 that wins the richest Americans back to the Democratic Party. And I have to say, like, If that's the case, I think the downside of that is you're not going to be able to do any sort of economic populism. You're going to make people much more disenchanted. You're going to have, like, you know, the big problem for the Democrats in the last presidential election was like a lower turnout. Like just, you know, about 8 million people just didn't show up who had shown up before. And if you want to discourage voters, if you want to like, you know, then like, you know, welcoming back into the Democratic Party, the guy that gave a Hitler salute. and he's trying to

Starting point is 00:55:03 medicaid his heart went out to people that's a pretty good strategy huh his heart went out to people cheat he sends his heart out but I mean I think understanding of the billionaires

Starting point is 00:55:16 it's a misunderstanding of Musk I mean like Musk's argument he's not like he suddenly sees the light and sees Trump as bad like he's actually mad that Trump isn't doing enough to get the government and to you know like

Starting point is 00:55:26 exactly and Trump and Musk himself is a very sincere like radical right winger he you can clearly see I think going back to you know one of his children transitioning that this guy self radicalized

Starting point is 00:55:40 and he's right you know this is like you know Mr. White genocide so I you know like why would you even want someone like that in your party? Yeah and I think you know the the the straw man from the abundance folks

Starting point is 00:55:56 to the extent that I have seen it has been that they're um the people who have a problem with billionaires as a policy question um or oligarchy see it as the only sort of like it there they're one uh trick ponies but the the bottom line is is that uh i think is that they are a billionaires are in being in a coalition with billionaires and the existence of billionaires is one of their biggest is one of the biggest veto points there could be I mean that's the you know their whole sort of like a concept is

Starting point is 00:56:40 there are too many veto points in building too many veto points but the fact of the matter is is that in when you well we saw this in the last election I mean like like exactly about Harris literally like ran her program through like Wall Street and they said oh don't don't talk about price gouging as much as you are. You know, you've got to tone that down. So, like, giving veto power, too, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:57:05 the people that are so fundamentally opposed to, like, any sort of economic populism, I mean, it seems folly. I mean, we all remember the classic Chuck Schumer quote that for every two blue-collar, or every blue-collar worker, you lose in eastern Pennsylvania or Ohio, you'll get, like, two more in the suburbs of Pennsylvania. Now we've got to the point where you're saying, like, Well, for every, like, blue-collar worker you lose, you know, you're going to get, like, two billionaires.

Starting point is 00:57:32 Well, I don't think the math works out. Like, I just think that there's a lot more blue-collar workers in America than there are billionaires. Are you paying attention to what's going on in the New York mayor? Yeah, yeah. It's has the potential to really, I think, fundamentally alter that conversation. Yeah, yeah, no, no. It absolutely does.

Starting point is 00:57:57 And, you know, I'm saying I'm kind of grateful that the centrist have decided to coales around, you know, like this, like, sex fest who, like, actually had to resign his last political job because of his actions. And, you know, yeah, I, you know, like, the polling looks good. Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, I think that the big issue, to me, is, like, enthusiasm. Like, he's clearly built, you know, like an army of supporters that are going out there. or fanning out, we're probably going to get ugly. Like, it's already kind of ugly with, like, you know, the ad where it's gave him the sort of, you know,

Starting point is 00:58:35 Ayatollah Khomeini beard. You know, I think we're going to see a lot of that. You know, like there'll be a lot of pictures of Zoran looking like Saddam Hussein or bin Laden in the coming weeks. That's my prediction. Yeah, I think that's true. But I will say early voting starts on Monday. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:55 And to wait, Thursday, is it Monday? Or does it even start before then, I think? The 14th is my recollection. Is it the 14th? So that's 13th. It's Saturday. It starts Saturday. And so people in New York City can go out and vote on Saturday.

Starting point is 00:59:16 And he seems to be peaking at exactly the time that you would want him to peak. Yeah, no, no, no. I think that's right. I think it's probably also worth mentioning it's ranked balloting so you know fill out your ballot with everyone that's like to fill out all five yeah all five and none

Starting point is 00:59:33 of them should include Cuomo that's right that's right yeah yeah yeah and yeah we'll see how it goes I mean Como you know has a history of dirty politics I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to say

Starting point is 00:59:49 that people will think of this outlandish and offensive but You know, like in the late 70s, when Vario Como was running for mayor, I guess, Ed Koch, there was like a very famous poster that was like plaster. Oh, yes. And Andrew was the one who came up with it, is my understanding of the reporting. Am I allowed to say the slogan? Well, yeah, I mean, this is what the slogan was that Andrew Cuomo promoted. And, you know, who wants to say it? Okay, I'll say it. I'll say it.

Starting point is 01:00:17 So it was like, vote for Como, not the homo. based on like you know long-standing rumors what Ed Koch's personal life so you know like I think like if that's what they did like you know in the 70s we're just going to see what they're going to do now if that's what Cuomo would do for his dad

Starting point is 01:00:39 then here it is I mean here's the flyer if that's what Andrew Cuomo would do for his dad what's he going to do for his really I mean if Cuomo loses this he's going to run in the general election and he may you know we may do I think he would do better in the general election uh then then maybe the democratic primary so I mean who knows but um this is existential for him in terms of his political career if he loses

Starting point is 01:01:07 the the for mayor he's done he's just going to go on and be a sex pest in private uh in private enterprise yeah um uh uh we'll go get a job for Ken Langone or something or some right-wing billionaire. That's right, yeah. I have to say, like, he's been pretty low energy, too. Like, I kind of feel like, I mean, we'll see how this plays up.

Starting point is 01:01:33 But yeah, I do think that part of the gambit will then be that he'll run in the general. But I do think that would probably absorb a lot of the Republican vote. It's going to be, I mean, it's going to be like a real marathon from here on end, like the, you know. Yeah, it's going to be, interesting because i think his strategy was to lay low and just let his name do the work and

Starting point is 01:01:55 because i think the more that he gets out there the more it starts generating um people telling stories about the um you know shutting down the hospitals uh prior to covid um and then putting see you know p uh covid patients into nursing homes and the idc how he basically thwarted any real democratic legislation as governor and is shutting down of the what was the commission

Starting point is 01:02:28 I can't remember the name of the commission off the top of my head now but that was looking into corruption and when they started to investigate his office he shut it down

Starting point is 01:02:41 yeah actually I mean like you know like you know the last thing the campaign I do actually think like there is a kind of you know, the sort of low information voter who's just going by name value, but also, like, Andrew Cuomo has a reputation as a tough guy.

Starting point is 01:02:58 So there's a kind, you know, you hear this from people. Like they're saying, like, oh, he's the guy who can stand up to Trump. And I think that the, you know, like what's maybe worth emphasizing, you know, to try to reach those people is this guy's getting a lot of money from Republican donors. Andrew Como is. And, you know, he has a history of kind of caving to the Republicans as well. uh so i i think that you know maybe the point of his eyes for democratic primary voters is like no this guy's not going to stand up to trump he's actually so compromised as well

Starting point is 01:03:29 that uh you know let like eric adams you're going to get a second uh new york mayor uh who can't stand up to trump uh it was the morland commission and um and and and and quomo shut it down when they started to investigate his office um and and i think you're right i mean the guy is completely compromised in in a myriad of ways. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like, I actually honestly think in terms of reforming the Democratic Party, like New York State is one of the places it has to kind of happen.

Starting point is 01:03:59 There is a kind of old political machine there. I think that, you know, like, aside from, like, you know, having a very, you know, like, exciting mayor who'll do, like, a lot of good things, like, I think anything that can put, like, you know, stake through the heart of the New York Party democratic political machine and, like, get it so that that state can have, like, a real political party that would be very good. I mean, I think the two states that need reform are like California and New York,

Starting point is 01:04:25 so in terms of the Democratic Party. Couldn't agree more. In Florida, I was just going to say in Florida, it would need a makeover. Jeet here, we will put links to your pieces at the Nation magazine and as well as Time of Monsters. um and you know i i guess maybe the last thing i wanted to ask you is like what at what point do you think we pass because there's a quality of like you know frog boiling frog to all

Starting point is 01:05:06 of this right i mean it's bit here a bit there a lot of people don't want to get out in front of this name because then you're the the person who's screaming about like you're being hysterical about fascism and whatnot although that seems to be quickly you know disintegrated among

Starting point is 01:05:25 Democratic voters is I think that's no longer even an issue like I say I think and that's increasingly among independence I mean like I just think to me like the real

Starting point is 01:05:35 as I said the real stumbling block is the party leadership and you know like we saw this from Schumer like he's kind of like waiting waiting for the Republicans to break rag

Starting point is 01:05:45 you know which is not going to happen. So, you know, like, it's going to continue to be a crisis. I think, like, honestly, and this is, like, what's the thought that terrifies me. Like, I think the breaking point could be if you have, like, American troops kill American citizens. I think that, you know, that's a real possibility. Like, like, you know, like.

Starting point is 01:06:06 Marines are not trained to do crowd control. Marines are trained to kill, period. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I will say this. I think this is also part of, you know, Trump and especially Miller's strategy that I actually think that they actually are looking for an excuse for, like, to escalate. 100%. And so, you know, yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:06:28 Did you watch Andor? I have been, I watched the first season. I'm waiting on the second season because I'm trying to get my son to watch it. Don't spoil. Like a protest that's like highly relevant. But, you know, like obviously the screenplays take it from many cases in history. But it is often the case that, you know, this rising public anger combined with, like, sort of autocratic rulers that, like, one of, you know, like an excuse for a crackdown, like that combination can, you know, quickly escalate in a very dangerous ways. I think the thing to watch is this birthright citizen case because in the Supreme Court, because that, the ruling there is going to be less about birthright citizenship and more about the capacity.

Starting point is 01:07:14 of a subsidiary like a federal court an appellate court to issue a nationwide injunction as to whether or not

Starting point is 01:07:27 the administration will follow those like heggseth would not say that he would follow that and you know when it comes to the Marines that is going to be a big big deal I think

Starting point is 01:07:38 but we shall see jeet here always a pleasure you know no no great talking as well yeah thanks all right folks um are we going to take a break or we're not going to take a break i don't think we are actually i think we're just going to continue on and uh we're going to cut a couple of clips that i wanted to go through um this tweet tweet truth bomb by donald trump what do they what do they call them why you hit the truth sam remember what the name of it is. It's a truth.

Starting point is 01:08:16 A truth? It's a truth. A truth. A truth. All right. I'm sorry. A truth. By Donald Trump, this was from Thursday morning afternoon. Our great farmers and people in the hotel and leisure business and our great

Starting point is 01:08:39 service workers. The game show hosts have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is is taking very good long-time workers away from them with those jobs being almost impossible to replace in many cases criminals allowed into our country by the very stupid Biden open borders policy are applying for those jobs this is not good we must protect our farmers but get the criminals out of the USA changes are coming so i think what he's saying there is um we're going to ease off in certain sectors i wonder if it's also somebody said uh you know that you're a department of homeland security secretary christian noom there's

Starting point is 01:09:27 talk that may be on her farm there might be some undocumented um but it's also i think this is indicative of why Trump is at least ostensibly pretending like they're going to back off. They think that if they show images of what's going on in New York

Starting point is 01:09:51 in California, that it's just going to feed it's just red meat to their base. And for the most part it is. But it's going to turn off it's going to turn off, I think, people in swing states, A, and B, I think you're also going to see an increased turnout in these states, particularly places like, you know, Atlanta, and in Philadelphia, and maybe Pittsburgh, and Madison and Milwaukee. But here is

Starting point is 01:10:29 Here is a guy Vincent Scardina who is a Trump supporter Being interviewed and where is this? The great state of Florida Channel 6 and the leisurely town of Key West Here we go in Key West You've lived in Key West for how long? 44 years

Starting point is 01:10:47 Vincent Scardina is the owner of the roofing company Where they worked He's owned it 37 years It's going to be really hard to replace those guys Says losing the six man is losing a third of his workers. We're not able in Key West to just replace people as easily as, say, a big city. Very limited people to pull from. And then you would have to train them.

Starting point is 01:11:11 And that takes sometimes years. But for Vincent, it's much more than that. It's financially as well as emotionally. It takes a toll. You get to know these guys. You become their friends, just not an employer, but a friend. And you see what happens to their family, it's quite a shock. Given his support for the president, we asked what he would tell the commander-in-chief if he had a chance.

Starting point is 01:11:44 What happened here? This situation is just totally, just blatantly, not at all what they said it was. Vincent, you voted for Donald Trump? Yes, I did. While he agrees with most of the president's policies, he thought the Trump administration was going to focus solely on deporting criminals. It seems immigration officials, he says, are just trying to meet quotas now. Byers remorse, I don't know, a little bit. How much damage does this create in your community?

Starting point is 01:12:14 It's not just happening to me. I mean, it's happening across the board. I know one landscaper that lost nine or ten of his, the whole crew he had. he's just totally out of business all of a sudden he wants his workers released and yearns for normalcy in his community and for the families of the men many argue were wrongfully detained honestly like i hear this stuff and i it just you know i guess maybe he wasn't paying enough attention beforehand to the rhetoric okay but even now he seems like he's still supporting Trump and I just don't know buyers remorse yes some buyers remorse like what what exactly is on the

Starting point is 01:13:02 other side of that ledger you know there's a group in Florida called latinas for Trump and I covered them in 2015 when I were fusion network I remember they're they're you know Cuban right wing Cuban and Venezuelan people um well that's because they've now kicked out all the Cubans and the Venezuelans under the temporary protected statuses. They've had a change of heart. Yes. But it's, according to them, they said, it was seeing these, like, people being apprehended on the way to the court hearings.

Starting point is 01:13:34 But here's a guy, and I understand that. I mean, I understand the reaction of, like, we thought it was going to be one thing. It's not another. I mean, not everybody's job to sit here and read the news and be this aware. And we know that Trump won this election basically on the backs of low information voters. But here's a guy now who has got first-hand experience, who is almost breaking up into tears, talking about families that he sees destroyed. And what is on the other side of this ledger? Get some tax cuts.

Starting point is 01:14:12 It could be the tax cuts, although he hasn't seen them yet. But he assumes they're coming. I mean, what's on the other side of this ledger? yeah what what is what is more of a payoff than him i mean i i my guess is i i don't know i don't know then what's going to make up for half a dozen of your worker slash friends being sent to some concentration camp it's also amazing to me that like the you know there's always this sort of like like fundamental almost essential quality of not being able to be empathetic unless it's like literally happening to you or almost crying for himself exactly but i i just i'm fascinated

Starting point is 01:15:06 is like what's on the other side of that ledger i don't know if we'll ever know i mean i have some guesses but it could be something idiosyncratic he really really didn't like the antitrust proposals of the bide administration or maybe he's really concerned about gaza uh or he hates medicare it could be he just thinks that like we're spending too much money on the on the Medicaid. I don't know. Fascinating. Very disturbing.

Starting point is 01:15:53 Meanwhile, this was yesterday. So this is on Wednesday. We are pre-recording this show, just a reminder to you. I don't know why we say this. Like 80, 90% of people who will consume the show do as like a podcaster it's it's VOD released like we're just doing it eight hours

Starting point is 01:16:15 earlier but whatever um Scott Pusson the secretary of the treasury was in front of which committee is this the finance committee

Starting point is 01:16:30 and um they are attempting I mean in as they sell this in the ways and means committee as they sell this budget uh this reconciliation bill to the american public they are just person after person is being sent out to basically tell lies about it the lies of one point four million undocumented immigrants on medicaid now that's not true medicaid they're statutorily based

Starting point is 01:17:09 and undocumented immigrants. There are, in 14 states around the country, public programs to provide health care for immigrants, because at the end of the day, it's cheaper on the public coffers. And I would also imagine some people actually think that, like, well, they're here, they're working. Maybe, you know, those seven guys who are working on that roofers company, maybe they should get health care

Starting point is 01:17:39 what happens if they're sick it's going to hurt your business buddy maybe they should just you know be part of the community officially but that's 14 they lie about that they lie about the idea that there are four million strapping young men

Starting point is 01:17:55 who just decide I don't want to work I don't want to make any money but I'm super super concerned about my health and so I still want to be able to go in for my annual physical they lie about that and now they're lying about just the basic math of their bill which is that it increases the deficit astronomically

Starting point is 01:18:20 and Scott Bassant rolls out an oldie but goody here he is being asked what number is this Representative Mike Thompson from California asked him this question in the hearing. Mr. Secretary, can you point to one independent study, one study performed by an expert PhD economist who is not on the payroll of this administration that says that this legislation will not add to our national debt?

Starting point is 01:19:00 Well, Congressman, if... Yes or no? Can you point to one? If we want to look at the CBO. No, I'm not asking you, is there an independent expert that you can point to that says that this bill will not add to our national debt? Yes or no? Yes. There is? Yes.

Starting point is 01:19:22 What are they? Art Laffer. Pardon me? Art Laffer. Art Laffer? Great. I don't think that one counts. Now, you see everybody laughing.

Starting point is 01:19:38 Even Besant himself, go back to just when he says Art Laffer. Even Bassant himself almost cracks up in saying this. Because Art Laffer is so discredited in both parties at this point. Just watch Bassant's face when he says it. Is there an independent expert that you can point? 2 that says that this bill will not add to our national debt. Yes, or no? Yes.

Starting point is 01:20:11 There is? Yes. What are they? Art Laffer. Pardon me? Art Laffer. Look at it. Look at his face.

Starting point is 01:20:18 He can't say it the second time without cracking a smile. Scott Besant never ever cited Art Laffer before this moment. This is the first time in his life. Who is Art Laffer? if you've listened to this program for any amount of time it is it's almost offensive to me that you don't know who he is but

Starting point is 01:20:44 Art Laffer was the one of the architects of supply side economics which as far back as 1984 1980 80 George Herbert Walker Bush called Voodoo Economics.

Starting point is 01:21:07 Here's Austin Gouldley in terms of what he talks about what is about the Laffer Curve. The Laffer Curve is a theory that if you go up, no, don't put that up yet, if you go up on an axis, that the further you increase taxes, the less, the less, less people want to work, and that if you raise taxes, that there's a point where people stop working. Now, I'm sure anecdotally, there are instances where there are somehow, like, you know, multi-hundred millionaires who would say, like, ah, I think I'm going to retire early because I'm only making 90 cents.

Starting point is 01:22:02 I'm only making 10 cents on the dollar for every dollar I earn over, you know, $5 million. But the laffer curve has one other element. It says that if you cut taxes, you will necessarily get more revenue. Why? Because by cutting taxes, in any amount it's going to create more economic activity you're going to get more growth and you will get more taxes paid in volume in abundance you'll get you more taxes paid in volume

Starting point is 01:22:39 because you know rich people will be paying a less of a percentage of their of their income but they're going to be making so much more money that they're going to end up paying more in taxes here's how austin gouls me and i'm not a huge fan of his frankly but here's how he's is, um, uh, they looked at, um, they, they asked people if they, yeah, this is a, uh, sort of, a poll of a whole bunch of economists, Gould's just being one of them. So here's their sort of pithy responses to what the Lafra curve is. Uh, moon landing was real. Evolution exists. Tax cuts, lose revenue. The research has thrown, shown this a thousand times enough already. So the point being, okay, yeah, here's another guy, uh, David Auteur, uh, not aware of any, uh, evidence in recent

Starting point is 01:23:27 history where tax cuts actually raise revenue sorry laffer um chicago booth uh may look plausible on a cocktail napkin or a cocktail party but not true empirically in the u.s that was the lapper curve was famously drawn on a cocktail mat napkin keep going uh chicago booth uh richard thaler that's a laffer uh there you i mean but we also have a very explicit real world example and it is called the state of kansas and in 2012 sam brownback became governor of kansas and he brought in arthur laffer to be his top advisor and they went on a whole um project of cutting taxes now i want you to Google the Kansas Art Laffer experiment and show me what the headlines are. Because after cutting taxes, the Republican-controlled Senate and Assembly in Kansas realized that it was a disaster.

Starting point is 01:24:46 and everybody's now caught on to this but maybe you can go back just go back like five years so that you see this um as trump proposes tax cuts kansas deals with aftermath yes this is all but this is all people now writing about the actual i want to see contemporaneous headlines because what happened in um uh kansas with this experiment you've got to go back, do the, do, like, a time set. So just do like 2015. What happened after two years was that they were so decimated, revenue was so decimated in Kansas.

Starting point is 01:25:30 And they had to cut deeply into the Kansas higher education system there, destroying what was one of like the crown jewel of Kansas. They had to cut on education so deeply that a completely Republican-controlled House and Assembly raised taxes. And Sam Brownback was so utterly disgraced and so utterly hated. The Great Kansas Tea Party disaster that's back in 2014. it was so thoroughly debunked and destroyed that they actually appointed in the Trump administration Sam Brownback

Starting point is 01:26:21 to be ambassador to faith that they could actually be jettisoned up into the ether and we would never hear from them again and the idea that they are basing this on Art Laffer and the Laffer curve they want what is known as dynamic scoring they have some theory that if you cut taxes it's going to raise revenue because people are going to work more and try and make more money

Starting point is 01:26:52 because now that they're making 70% or 80% of their money instead of like 35 you know instead of like 65 or 75% they're going to make so much more money you know on a touch you have to be to think it's the tax rate and not like your rent and expenses that make you show talking about rich people i know i know that's what i'm saying they're talking about rich people who can relate to that and the thing is is that empirically it's been shown over and over and over and over and over and over again that this is not true that art laffer is wrong that when you cut taxes you don't necessarily raise revenues it's just not true

Starting point is 01:27:40 And particularly when you top load these taxes, which like these are, because as they say, a rich man buys one loaf of bread at a time. They're just using that money to generate, basically to buy stocks, which, of course, these wealthy people, what they do with their stocks now, they buy the stocks, or they get them as compensation from their companies, their stock increases. in value. It is not taxed until they sell it. They don't sell it. And then they borrow against it. And they keep taking loans against it. And the loan cost them 3% because they get a favorable deal. Meanwhile, their stock portfolio is going up by 5% or 8% or 9% or 10%. They don't get taxed on their loans. And that's how they, that's how they, that's how they just live but do you think because like rich people find these ways to like not pay taxes that these people are like had seen oh like when the tax rates higher it's the rich people are making less

Starting point is 01:28:54 money or so like they can't just like I mean that's the uber wealthy I mean there's still I mean obviously if rich people are paying less in taxes they're paying less in taxes they're not taking all you know all their compensation is not all from stocks they're still getting some cash. But it's like a dummy just like saw tax returns and was like, oh, look, they're making less money. Like, no, they're not making less money when the tax rates higher. They're just going to greater length to cheat. No, Laffer is just, this is just a theory that he came up with. There's no empirical basis for any of this. It's motivated reasoning is what it is. Totally. So Besant, you know, embarrasses himself, but he doesn't care. I mean, this is, this is going to be

Starting point is 01:29:40 about basically mowing through the parliamentarian. They can't get the CBO to do their dynamic scoring. So now they're going to have to just basically pretend that it doesn't increase the deficit, doesn't increase the debt. It's all just going to be a lie. Okay, lastly, tomorrow, Saturday, the 14th. There's a couple of things happening.

Starting point is 01:30:10 250 years ago tomorrow the 14th the continental army was established as a way of fighting back against the British the military had decided about as late as like a year ago that they were going to have a small commemorative celebration Donald Trump became president his birthday I think is the 14th is it the same day and has decided that he's going to celebrate

Starting point is 01:30:55 he's going to finally have his big parade he wanted to do this in the last term and basically he was convinced by Esper and others that like the tanks are going to tear up Washington streets Well, you've seen the footage of all the tanks that coming from Texas

Starting point is 01:31:14 to Washington, D.C. And Donald Trump is intending to have a massive military parade tomorrow on Saturday to celebrate his birthday. This is clip number six. Donald Trump announced this a couple of days ago and made it clear he doesn't want any protests there because it's his birthday and there are protest plan for that day you can go to no kings dot org but here is

Starting point is 01:31:59 here let's first play this clip do we have it any message to adversaries as the army picks off a 250-year- birthday celebration? I just think it's amazing. We're going to have a fantastic June 14th parade flag day. It's going to be an amazing day. We have planes. We have all sorts of things. And I think it's going to be great.

Starting point is 01:32:21 We're going to celebrate our country for a change. You know, recently, as you know, with World War II, the victory of World War II, I called up France, and they were celebrating the victory. Well, we helped them a lot, as you know. I don't have to get into that. But I called up other countries. They were all celebrating the victory.

Starting point is 01:32:38 To be clear. We're the only... You know, there's a good reason why you might celebrate a victory when you're in France, because they were occupied. They were literally occupied. They were... They had... In Britain, they were bombed repeatedly.

Starting point is 01:33:01 Europe, like... The entire population lived the war. Whole city is just destroyed. So the implications of it may be a little bit different. And of course, this is celebrating the Continental Army from 250 years ago. I don't know why he's bringing up World War II. The British are coming. They get big parades.

Starting point is 01:33:31 Good. get into that but i called up other countries they're all celebrating the victory we're the only country that didn't celebrate the victory and we're the one that won the war okay if it was it for us that war you would be speaking german right now okay uh we won the war and you might be speaking japanese too i mean you might be speaking a combination of both we won the war and we're the only country that didn't celebrate it and we're going to be celebrating big on saturday we're going to have a lot of And if there's any protests that wants to come out, they will be met with very big force.

Starting point is 01:34:05 By the way, for those people that want a protest, they're going to be met with very big force. And I haven't even heard about a protest. But, you know, this is people that hate our country. But they will be met with very heavy force. I haven't even heard about this no-kings.org protest that's happening all around the country. I haven't even heard about it.

Starting point is 01:34:25 I'm worried about someone I never even heard about before. He, I mean, it's really, it's just his, it's his birthday thing and he doesn't want it ruined. Go out and protest, meet people, develop networks, and embarrass Donald Trump. Meanwhile, somebody raised the somebody at a press conference with uh what's her face uh caroline levitt asks um a question like hey uh is this a little problematic like why are you already planning to uh meet with a big force protesters like people protest people protest people protested at like the bush inauguration parade that's that's what it was one of the in fact

Starting point is 01:35:27 One of the big deals about the Continental Army was they were fighting ultimately for a Constitution in this country, which allows freedom of speech. Against despotism. And says there's no king. Here's how that question was answered. And then on the domestic side, you were just asked about the First Amendment rights issues. In the President's comments yesterday, though, he just said protesters would be strongly dealt with. In your list before you referred to insurrectionists, rioters, and protesters together. Obviously, they're quite different from your earlier answer.

Starting point is 01:36:10 I'm struck by the fact that the President has not at any point said the most important thing here is to protect the First Amendment rights of peaceful protesters. So I'm wondering, where in his hierarchy of interests does he try? place that? Is the First Amendment protection the most important? Is stopping violence most important? Why is he not out saying all peaceful protesters will be protected? I think two things can be important at the same time. And the president, as I just answered, supports the right of Americans to peacefully protest. He supports the First Amendment. But that is not the majority of the behavior that we have seen taking place in Los Angeles. We have seen mobs of violent rioters and

Starting point is 01:36:51 agitators, assaulting law enforcement officers, assaulting our federal immigration authorities. And we have seen, as I said, this goes back to what this administration is trying to do and accomplish, and that's enforcing law and order in our nation's communities. And it's removing public safety threats from communities in Los Angeles. You've been the majority of not good peaceful, the majority of the... I just read for you the arrest numbers. We've arrested nearly 400 illegal aliens alone, just illegal aliens who have been arrested in these riots since June 6th, since they began.

Starting point is 01:37:23 Thousands of people on the streets. Yeah, and we've had hundreds of people who have assaulted law enforcement officers. Are you saying that that's not, I pause here. First off, I seriously doubt there was 400 undocumented immigrants arrested in these protests. But here's the clip that I thought we were going to play here, too. This is how Levitt responded to a reporter following up on that initially. It's interesting. I noticed the way that you response to one question versus the other.

Starting point is 01:37:55 The president warned that any protests on Saturday would be met with force. Can you clarify what kind of protest President Trump does support or find acceptable? The president absolutely supports peaceful protests. He supports the First Amendment. He supports the right of Americans to make their voices heard. He does not support violence of any kind. He does not support assaulting law enforcement officers. who are simply trying to do their job.

Starting point is 01:38:21 It's very clear for the president what he supports and what he does not. Unfortunately, for Democrats, that line has not been made clear, and they've allowed this unrest and this violence to continue, and the president has had to step in. So if there were peaceful protests on Saturday for the military parade, President Trump would allow that. Of course the president supports peaceful protests. What a stupid question.

Starting point is 01:38:41 Oh, maybe it was a function of him saying if there's protests. I mean, this is all part of a whole. This is all part of a whole, folks. It's lying for a reason. It's not just lying because the truth is something they don't care about. They're grasping power. And I'll tell you, you know, here's the thing, is that if going back to that guy, who's the roofer in Key West, if he didn't know, if, you know, Latinas for Trump didn't know that Donald Trump. Trump was actually going to deport and break up families and make it impossible for people

Starting point is 01:39:27 to even follow the rules. When she goes out there and says, of court, you know, it is an example of how them lying actually helps. Cement their coalition. Cement their coalition. Because remember, like, that's a perfect example of how their, you know, their lies have worked in the past had they come out and said we're going to deport everybody and anybody not just criminals and had they come out and said that more explicitly and made that the only

Starting point is 01:40:02 thing they said you may not have people who are surprised at what trump is doing so like she can be there and lie and we know like wait a second he's already said something it's not a stupid question but it helps cement their constituency so i don't know we're getting into um you know red alert territory if we weren't already there it is um well let me put this way we've been there for immigrants in this country we've been there for uh trans people and other marginalized people and now it's just like sort of seeping out pay attention tell people to pay attention um all right that's it for us today we're going to uh emma's wedding uh matt russ emma in abstentia a reminder there is no uh well i guess maybe this could be cut up as a fun half i don't know

Starting point is 01:41:23 we'll see uh but uh regardless uh no calls no iams today we pre-recorded this on thursday see you on monday it might take all strength like i to get to where i want but i know somehow I'm

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The Majority Report with Sam Seder - 2518 - Trump Administration Thuggery & The Coopting of the Military w/ Jeet Heer

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