The Majority Report with Sam Seder - 3595 - Shut Down; Authoritarian Rise; Ezra's Decline w/ Jamaal Bowman

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

It's Casual Friday on the Majority Report On today's Show: After denying any knowledge of Project 2025 for his entire campaign, Donald Trump is now bragging about his Office of Management & Budget director and Project 2025 architect Russ Vought's accomplishing the goals he feigned ignorance towards. Former U.S. Representative for New York's 16th Congressional District, Jamaal Bowman joins the program to wrap the week's news. Feds unleash terror on a Chicago apartment building, detaining American citizens including children and elderly folks in zip ties for hours in the middle of the night. As the government shutdown rolls along, Rep Bowman gives insight on how unserious the House of Representatives has become. Jamaal reacts to the Ezra Klein / Ta-Nehisi Coates' conversation about Klein's whitewashing of Charlie Kirk. On the Fun Half: Tim Pool carries water for GOP lies about undocumented people receiving free health care. Sen. Liz Warren sets the record straight over this undocumented health care myth. Tomi Lahren proves she really is fearless by inviting Krystal Ball on her podcast to humiliate her. All that and more The Congress switchboard number is [phone]. You can use this number to connect with either the U.S. Senate or the House of Representatives. Follow us on TikTok here: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase Check out today's sponsors: ZOCDOC: Go to Zocdoc.com/MAJORITY and download the Zocdoc app to sign-up for FREE and book a top-rated doctor.  SUNSET LAKE:  Head to SunsetLakeCBD.com and use the code JustTreats25 to save 30% on all their gummies for sleep, focus, and relaxation Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech Check out Matt’s show, Left Reckoning, on YouTube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon’s show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza’s music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. We are every day's casual Friday. That means Monday is casual Monday. Tuesday, casual Tuesday. Wednesday, casual hump day. Thursday, casual thurs. That's what we call it. And Friday, casual Shabbat.

The majority report with Sam Cedar. It is Friday. October 3rd, 2025. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five-time award-winning majority report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today? Ball Bowman, former U.S. representative for New York's 16th Congressional District, will be in studio.

Whoa. Also on the program today, day three, government shutdown. Trump no longer pretending Project 2025, not the plan. Meanwhile, Russell, vote the architect of that plan, and Trump, office of management and budget director in both terms cancels billions and appropriated funds to blue states some Republicans now fearing further government layoffs that will impact their states

ICE attacks a Chicago residential apartment building with helicopters and racial profiling Israel illegally boards the last of the flotilla ships continues its slaughter in Gaza dozens killed overnight as Hamas weighs ceasefire proposal now amidst Trump's weekend deadline Supreme Court of the United States

will consider overturning Hawaii's law that regulates where guns can be carried Barry Weiss Off the Who's a Palestinian professor beat And how intelligent Dave Rubin is To be named editor-in-chief of CBS News

Aye Yep After threats from the White House Apple removes ice tracking apps from its store Trump supposedly to send billions to farmers as a bailout from Trump's policies. Cory Bush announces a bid for her former congressional seat. All this and more on today's majority report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, it is casual Friday.

Casual Friday. And as you can see, soft-collared shirt. You're just... Sweeter. It's a new color, too. Black sweater. This is actually when I had a while back, but then I'm like, every time I try and buy something that is not specifically on the blue, gray, white color spectrum, I'm like, eh.

It's like the Indiana Jones color spectrum. Yeah. A little flashy today. I'm getting a little flashy wearing the autumn green. No, it's tougher. Military green. Yeah. War time.

Yeah. That's new. like warrior yeah it's part of my new warrior ethos sam's volunteering with ice after this we do follow a warrior ethos around here sure loyalty duty respect selflessness honor integrity and pride you say that in your sleep say it one more time what is it loyalty duty respect selflessness honor integrity and pride leadership brother and uh but that doesn't uh spell warrior shouldn't it be like something with a W and then an A and R, R. I think the whole ethos

is just a bunch of an acronyms. No, they replace the whole thing with don't be fat. Everything I ever learned about the way you should behave is from Gary Busey doing those an acronym things or whatever it is. All right. A couple things. Let's just

get out of the way. I know the Red Sox lost. All right. Wait till next year. Shouldn't have been so confident. That's what I grew up on. and that's what I'll stand by so I don't need to should have followed Emma's 12

12 step magical advice psychotic rules and also let me just say Happy New Year for all the Jews out there in Yom Kippur yesterday I fasted

I made it the entire time almost passed out it was for whatever reason it was a hard fast this year but now I have been washed of all my sins and all my vows and promises going forward have also been forgiven in advance as is the plan on Yom Kippur. So let's move right in. In the months leading up to the election, in the months prior to the election, in the months leading up to the inauguration, in the months leading up to the inauguration, We were talking quite a bit about Project 2025 and about Russell Vote.

We did many, many interviews about Russell Vote. I think even when I headed out to do that Jubilee, which was recorded, I want to say like a weekend to the Trump administration, everything I was focusing on at that point was Russell Vote. He has been working his disaster magic, as it were, over the past. eight or nine months, his role was actually slowed by Doge because Doge was just getting in the way. And he got a little big-footed. But he has now begun to sort of like over the past couple of months really reassert himself within the administration. And it was all of this to anyone without an agenda to pretend that both sides are the same or anybody who is paying any attention

to the way that Republicans operated for decades anybody who had been paying any attention to what folks like Grover Norquist were saying like we just need somebody with a pulse to sign this stuff. We have all the plans. Although Norquist I don't think was necessarily involved than Project 2025, he could have been. It was quite obvious.

There was a lot of people in the mainstream media would say, well, Donald Trump says he's not part of Project 2025. I guess we've got to believe him. And he did. He was repeatedly distancing himself from it, despite all evidence showing that, like, he had dozens of former staffers working on it,

the entire Republican infrastructure behind it. Who else was it going to be besides the Heritage Foundation also? And there were a lot of folks in media who, you know, in the mainstream press in particular, that took the most notorious liar at his word or at the very least presented it as a both sides issue. And here we are today. And, you know, the young Turks did an extended riff on how Project 2025 was just hysterics by liberals, et cetera, et cetera. Well, welcome to it. Here is a brief clip here. What is this one?

Oh, this is a compilation of Trump's denials. Yeah, this is a compilation of Trump's denials about it. I have nothing to do with Project 2025. That's out there. I haven't read it. I don't want to read it. Project 2025 is not affiliated with the Trump campaign. This is a document I know nothing about.

It's called Project 25. I don't know what the hell it is. it's Project 25. He's involved in Project, and then they read some of the things that they are extreme. I mean, they're seriously extreme. But I don't know anything about it.

Hmm. Yeah. Here's Donald Trump's tweet or truth or tweet, whatever it is. I have a meeting today with Russ Vote. He of Project 2025 fame to determine which of the many Democrat agencies, most of which are a political scam.

He recommends be cut and whether or not those cuts will be temporary or permanent. I can't believe the radical left Democrats gave me this unprecedented opportunity. They're not stupid people. So maybe this is their way of wanting to quietly and quickly make America great again, President DJT. First off, the fact that he's writing this stuff is a perfect example of how either they were actually sort of like feeding this to Chuck Schumer. And Chuck Schumer was either believing it or he's just sort of like goading Chuck Schumer more. There is nothing that Russ vote can do legally to make any cuts that are permanent any more than he could have a week ago.

A week ago, he was still making those cuts. And he probably will make them going forward. But none of this has to do with the breakdown, has to do with the fact that either the Supreme Court has refused. to uphold things like the 1974 Impalment Act or the Constitution or whatnot. Whatever the, whatever authority you want to uphold that Congress has the ability to appropriate funds and that the president doesn't have the ability to not spend them if they are appropriated by the Congress. I mean, you grow up as a child, as a child.

as a child what is congress's job to spend the money so it's quite obvious everything they're doing is illegal now um vote has announced the termination of eight billion dollars in funding for clean energy projects in 16 states all of which voted for harris in the 2024 election all of of which, I believe, are senators who have voted against closing discussion on the motion for the continuing resolution. He has also frozen $18 billion in New York City infrastructure projects, including the tunnel to New Jersey, third tunnel to New Jersey. which is going to come back and bite the Republican in the governor's race.

I can't remember his name now. As if his lieutenant governor wasn't doing. Oh, in New Jersey, yes, yes, yes. In New Jersey. But all of this is illegal. And it is exactly, in part, I mean, they're not talking about it, but it's certainly one of the things supposedly that they're looking for in the bill that they promoted the Democrats. The inability of the president to stop funds from reaching where Congress has said that they should be appropriated and to permanently, like, put Russ vote in his place.

Now, they're not, they're not pushing this at all because I think they're nervous. as to why they should. In fact, Murphy from Connecticut was interviewed by Greg Sargent, and he was asked if he privately talks to Democratic colleagues about why they don't sound the alarm loudly, in particular about Russ' vote, but other things in terms of. And Murphy says, yeah, I do. I do bring it up. There's a couple answers, and I'm not the only one talking like this,

but I hear a couple of things from my Democratic colleagues. One, it's dangerous to be so alarmist that if you say we're not a democracy anymore, and this is a broader thing about Trump's authoritarianism, but certainly withholding funds from blue states that you don't like that have been appropriated by Congress is one of these things, that we might not have a free and fair election, for instance. You're actually disincentivizing people from getting involved because it makes them feel hopeless. The second thing I hear about is, well, we ran on democracy in

2024 and we lost. So let's not do democracy. Let's do economics in health care. And Murphy says, I'm totally for a focus on economics. I'm a big believer that Bernie's message or some version of it is really the secret sauce. We've got to be a

populist economic party, but we'll never be able to raise the minimum wage by $10 if our democracy disappears. So whether or not the polls tell us that everybody in this country believes that democracy is at risk it is at risk um this is all part of it and you know so the only thing is they'll talk to um uh congressman bowman about this more in a bit but if uh your senator well all of your democratic senators short of um independent Angus King and Catherine Cortez Mastro and soon to be former Senator John Fetterman have voted essentially in favor of the continuing resolution.

They have voted to close discussion, which opens it up, makes it a 50-50, or I should say a 51-50 is all you need for to pass the bill. um call your senators tell them to stay strong thank you for rejecting uh the trump administration etc etc um you know right now is a little bit of a carrot time the stick is also good simultaneously sometimes you can use the carrot as a stick because it uh if it's big enough and rigid stand right now and um it is unclear uh where we go from here all right we're going to take a quick break no we got uh before we get to um congressman bowman got a sponsor of for today's show and it's one of my favorite sunset lake sabad day dot com right now a chill is in the air. That means, you know, it's like we're getting towards Halloween. Autumn. It's time to

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See their site for terms and conditions. All right, let's take a quick break and should be back with former Congressman Bowman in just a moment. We are back, Sam Cedar on the majority report is a pleasure to welcome in studio, the former a Congressman from the 16th District in New York. Jamal Bowman, Congressman, real pleasure to have you in studio. Very excited to have you. Good to be with you. It's an honor.

Oh, yeah? Yes, yes. I'm going to hang out with you and, you know, Emma, who's killing it right now and just destroying everyone out there. Like, that's pretty amazing, very exciting. Appreciate that. Last time I saw you in person, we were masked up at your victory party after the primary. I believe.

In 2020? Yes. Wow. Yes. That was a really exciting night. That was very exciting. Yes. It was a long time ago.

Thank you very much. Appreciate that. But you've been given off like Princess Leia Star Wars energy lately just on the interwebs. You've been killing it. Yeah. It's a bit of an addiction. I can't stop yelling at people or getting into fights.

I like what I like what I'm seeing, man. And it's not just you. Who's the, who's the? chick from the other, I won't talk about other shows, but it's like, I've had it, Jennifer Welch. I think that's her. Is that the one with, um, with Chank? Is that? Oh, no, no, no. That the, I've had, that's, uh, Anna, but I've had it as the, uh, the ladies, like that have been, yeah, yeah, it's like white women attack, you know what I'm saying? It's like, the chick with Chink is Emma. Yep. Crystal Ball is all. I'm like, yo, y'all need to come together and do like some,

some stuff. I agree with that. You could call it like her talk. You could call it. yeah there but appreciate you thanks so much that's high praise um all right let's talk about some i want to talk i mean obviously like there's um some very broad themes that we want to talk to you about um i mean uh all of them

in one form or another deal with uh saving not just our you know our democracy you know to the extent that we have had one but also making uh trying to improve on it uh going forward um and these all of the stories that we have this week in one form or another it seems to me uh play into that in a way that um uh is almost explicit you know like for for year you know i've been doing this for years and um it has been quite apparent that like there has been this sort of creeping fascism. Even this week, the failure of Democrats or society at large, I'm talking

the media too, to hold the Bush administration responsible for violations of the Hatch Act 20 years ago are coming back to bite us in the ass just this week, it seems. But let's start in Chicago. These ice raids have gotten bolder and bolder. They, They were threatening to go into Chicago, and Pritzker, I think, did a very good job of basically, at the very least, posturing in a way that we're not going to roll over for this. And at one point, there were reports that the Texas National Guard was starting to stage outside of Illinois, and Pritzker said, you're going to meet the National Guard from Illinois, and we'll see what happens. They seem to have backed down.

but ICE still feels like that they are trying to prove that they can do this stuff regardless of what mayors say what governors say this raid is i think probably one of the boldest that ice has done to date they used supposedly supposedly black hawk helicopters to drop in on the roof of an apartment building in Chicago, they supposedly had FBI and DEA. This is a big apartment building in Chicago. They ended up arresting 37 people. We don't know anything about these people.

But listen to this report from eyewitness news, ABC, in Chicago. I spoke to one woman who actually lives in this building, and she says she was detained by ICE agents over night, and she says they took everyone and then asked questions. later. They just treated us like we were nothing. Partissue Fisher said she came out to the hallway of her apartment complex on the corner of 75th and South Shore Drive in her net gown around 10 Monday night, only to find ICE agents yelling police. It was scary because I've never had a gun put in my face. They asked my name and my date of birth and asked me, did I have any

warrants? And I told them no, I didn't. She says she was then handcuffed and released around 3 a.m. Fischer says she was told if anyone had any kind of warrant out for them, even if it was unrelated to immigration, they would not be released. Citizen at video shows the chaotic scene overnight. Neighbors tell us there were dozens of ICE agents. Neighbors like Ebony Watson says they ducked for cover as they heard several flashbangs go off. They was terrified. The kids was crying. People were screaming.

They looked very distrauded. I was out there crying when I seen the little girl come around the corner because they was bringing the kids out too. had them zip tied to each other. That's all I kept asking, where's the morality? Where's the human? One of them literally laughed. He was standing right here. He said, fuck them kids.

Watson says budget trucks and military-style vans were used to separate parents from their children. Other neighbors say they saw agents destroying property to get in the building. And they had a big 15-inch chainsaw with a round blade on it, cutting this fence down. We're under siege. We're being invaded by our own military. The FBI did confirm this morning that they did have. help the U.S. Border Patrol carry out a targeted immigration enforcement operation in this area. And they say they have been supporting these efforts at the direction of the U.S. Attorney General.

Let me read a little bit from the Chicago Sun Times report on this. I mean, this is just absolute nuts. Armed federal agents of military fatigues busted down their doors overnight, pulling men, women, and children from their apartments, some of them naked residents uh witness said agents approached or entered nearly every apartment in the five-story building u.s citizens were among those detained for hours um on wednesday toys shoes and food were still in piles in the building's hallways property manager were seen throwing mattresses and broken doors into dumpsters the department of homeland security border patrol FBI bureau uh ATF arrested 37 people DHS said some of those arrested, quote, are believed to be involved in drug trafficking and distribution, weapons, crimes, and immigration violators. That's a pretty low standard. The feds claim that South Shore neighborhood was, quote, a location known to be frequented by Trenda Agua members and their associates.

But DHS gave no evidence to support the assertion. Authorities did not confirm that any of the people arrested were members of the Venezuelan gang. alleged Trent Argoa members have been charged and detained in the city recently as August, but the Chicago sometimes found little evidence tying them to Chicago. Roderick Johnson, 67, one of the many residents detained by federal agents during the raid, a U.S. citizen, he said agents broke through his door and dragged him out in zip ties. Johnson said he was left, tied up outside the building for nearly three hours before the agents let him go. I asked the agents why they were holding me if I'm an American citizen.

And they said, I had to wait until they looked me up. I asked if I had a warrant. I asked for a lawyer. They never brought one. They used flashbang grenades, as we heard in that video. Watson, one of the people living there, said she saw agents dragging residents, including kids, out of the building without any clothes on, into U-Haul vans. I think it was actually budget vans.

And kids were separated from their mothers. Stuff was everywhere. You could see people's birth certificates. papers thrown all over water was leaking into the hallway it was wicked crazy jones who lives on the fourth floor said most of his neighbors were venezuelan and often took turns cleaning the hallway because the property owners did little to maintain it they were cool people jones said as he looked into his next door neighbor's unit they didn't speak a lick of english uh but we used translator apps to talk to each other classic uh trend to argo uh activities in um taking care of the public spaces

in their buildings. Just that one other paragraph there, I think, is important, too. Jones and Johnson said they believed the landlord would kick out the remaining residents from the building, which public records show had previously received code violations. Owners of the property could not be reached for comment. This is the second story we've covered where a sort of seemingly slum dog, slum lord, landlord basically, has blamed Trenda Aragua. for the dilapidation of the buildings and are using supposed gang activity as a pretext to both

like neglect the tenants there and then try to kick them out because clearly they may want to raise rent. I mean, this is an epidemic. Yeah, man. I mean, you know, when you look at the building and I know a little bit about Chicago, not a lot, but that sort of building you could presume, say it's in a lower income community with people who are, you know, working class, you know, living their lives with their families, with their children day to day, going about their business. And for no reason at all come under attack by ICE and our federal government with pipe bombs and the trauma of their children and the families and the people that have to go through that,

who did absolutely nothing wrong. And probably many of them have never probably gotten in trouble with the law at all, and they have to live through that. And I would also say that if there were, you know, if this building was a crime-ridden, you know, building and community, one of these residents probably would have mentioned something like that. Oh, we've been having problems with our neighbors and, you know, because, you know, in my experience, many people aren't shy to say, you know, these immigrants, they're doing this or that or whatever. But that's not what I heard.

I heard innocent people pretty much trying to figure out what the F is going on and why are you coming after us? And for, and the story of the 67-year-old man, It is like, is what we're seeing, again, in cities across the country, you're detaining and asking questions later. You have them in zip ties, sitting for three hours only to let him go. Are you going to fix his door? Are you going to fix any of the doors that were broken? No, I mean, this is, again, you alluded to it in the intro.

It's like, you know, many of us have been warning about this kind of thing for many years. and now it's here. Like authoritarianism is here. We are living through it right now. And yes, Governor Pritzker has been pushing back. Mayor Johnson has been pushing back. But this is what, this is what half of America, almost half of America voted for. And now we have it.

And it's freaking scary, man. Like it really is scary. And it can happen in any city, any community at any time. I mean, at one point it's going to happen. here, right? I mean, we're already starting to see ICE's, you know, out and like, you know, maybe in Bed-Stuy, maybe up in the Bronx.

And it is no mistake. Well, there's two things that are happening. One, we know that there's a chunk of the immigrant population is going to be living in areas with more poverty, lower

income, in buildings like that that aren't necessarily being serviced by. I'm trying to release speaking, yes. I mean, you know, broad strokes, but also, we also know that the non-immigrant population there also has less political power, right? Like, nobody's coming in to do a raid like this in a building in downtown Manhattan or something like that, because they're going to piss off people who are going to be able to immediately get on the phone with a congressman. or, you know, a city official. So I imagine we're going to see this and maybe sort of like sort of the outer parts

of some of the boroughs and more low-income places in this city. What, like, what would you do? Like, I mean, this is the thing, it's like, it's like, both from a citizen perspective, but also from the perspective of somebody who was like a congressman, what do you do in that instance?

And it's not like, you know, the New York Police Department and nor the Chicago PD is particularly like known for its, um, its good relationships with, uh, with immigrants and low income people, and particularly Chicago. It's got some really bad history, but yeah, man, you know, I mean, listen, you know, right now I have the privilege of having served in the House of Representatives, right? And so that privilege comes with maybe law enforcement treating me differently. But I also have instincts as just being a person who has, you know, I have little sisters and children. And I used to be an educator, so I'm a very protective person in my nature. And so, you know, I mean, this year we've seen Senator Padilla be tackled by ICE agents in California. We've seen babies being ripped from mothers. We've seen mothers tackled right here in New York City at the courts.

You know, Brad Lander's been arrested multiple times. We've seen other elected officials arrested multiple times. My instinct is to get in between, I'm talking Jamal Bowman's instinct, is to get in between the agents and whoever they're trying to take. In addition to that, and this is kind of what I've been doing just on my, own time just ensuring that communities like the one we just saw are connected to the right resources and the right people including members of Congress and so you know make the road is an amazing organization here in New York that has like

lawyers at the ready to support families and whatever their needs are yesterday I got a random text you know from an immigration lawyer saying hey my are being texted to go to this random facility in the Bronx to have their paperwork dealt with. And it was, and she was like, something seems fishy about this. This is off. So I texted everyone I knew, right? You know, AOC, Senator Gustavo Rivera, Carl Hasty, everybody just be like, hey, like, Bronx residents are receiving these texts. Can you look into this?

And, you know, they looked into it. And they was like, yeah, my staff is saying like, this is, well, just tell people to stay away, et cetera, et cetera. So ISIS is trying to like set people up in these sting operations to go to a random place and get snatched up. And that's the other thing, right? Like the Trump administration promised us that they will go after the hardened criminals, right? The people, you know, looking to bring harm to American citizens, quote, and they're going after innocent people, man, who are just going through the process of, you know,

finishing their paperwork so they can become citizens, and it needs to be repeated over and over again. Coming here, seek an asylum, does not make you a criminal. Like, seek an asylum in the U.S. does not make you a criminal. You're allowed to do that. We have laws and books that support you in doing that, and then we help with the paperwork so that you can become a citizen. Trump is treating every single migrant as a criminal, treating naturalized citizens as a criminal, now we're going to see him treat black people as criminals, as he has always done anyway. Well, can you talk a little more about that? Because I'm seeing how broken windows policing is basically now being federalized.

And that's broken windows on like steroids. I mean, they're literally breaking windows. But it's just this merging of using, say, you know, the expanded powers under after 9-11, right, the war on terror, the Patriot Act. the increase in surveillance, that federal policing, and merging it with things like, you know, the gang databases that have kept so many communities in cycles of poverty and using that as justification to deport people. And it feels very much like the way that communities of color

and poorer communities and cities have been treated, by local police, they've taken that in the Trump administration and put it on steroids to use it to purge and really ethnically cleanse these communities of immigrants. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And it's not just the ethnic cleansing of immigrants. It's the, you know, and I never thought about it in these terms until you just asked this question. it's almost like the ethnic cleansing of black American citizens into the prison industrial complex so that they can work as slaves.

And so these are, we're talking about communities that have been historically neglected, historically underfunded. We're talking federal policy like redlining that is historically devalued these communities and global. where, you know, manufacturing has gone overseas and a race to the bottom in many of our blackest cities like Detroit or Philly or Yonkers. And people were left with no economic opportunities and more police, right? Mass incarceration started decades ago under, I believe it was Nixon and then on and on and on. And so that's the history of it. And it's still happening today. And what we've seen that works, and again, if the Trump administration was serious about this, but we know he isn't, what works is investing in hyper-local solutions in those

particular cities, like what Mayor Brandon Scott is doing in Baltimore. We see violent crime way down. What Mayor Johnson is doing in Chicago, violent crime way down, is happening in places across the country. And what we know, and again, we've got to continue to say this, when you look murder per capita, violent crime per capita, death per capita. The numbers are higher in red-led states and red-led counties, not in Democratic-led states and counties and municipalities. We have to keep saying that yet Trump is doing nothing there, right? So this is, and again, it's very scary. And what I have talked about and seen from people in the African-American community community in particular, we're just kind of, you know, falling into like self-preservation

mode. Like, let's just do whatever we can to stay out of the way so we don't get caught up in everything that's happening, but they're going to come for us anyway, right? Which Chicago's an example of that. Yeah, I mean, it's, this is the, uh, immigrants are the sort of the low-hanging fruit of the day at different times in the in in this nation's history it's been other marginalized people in other countries it's been other people who had marginal political power just to the point that that emma that you were making in terms of like the stop and frisk there's a lawsuit there was this Alabama construction worker maybe you saw the video he was beat up by ice in May and he had showed them his real ID like literally the real ID the new one you know that is

basically your federal papers and they didn't believe it was legitimate it turned out it was he then went back to work a construction worker U.S. citizen and then they got him again did the exact same thing on a different job site, he is suing now in a class action suit demanding unconstitutional illegal immigration enforcement tactics cease. And in response, the Department of Homeland Security put out this statement. DHS law enforcement uses, quote, reasonable suspicion to make arrests. I mean, you're having- Skin. Well, I mean, that is reasonable suspicion.

Exactly. It is not probable cause. There is no, that is a novel use of reasonable suspicion to arrest people. Reasonable suspicion is when you can maybe search a car and find something that provides probable cause that a crime has been committed to make an arrest. What makes someone a target for immigration enforcement is if they're illegally in the U.S. not their skin color, race, or ethnicity, which is exactly the opposite of what DHS submitted to courts in California when they wanted to go after it. Like, you're speaking Spanish? That is a reasonable suspicion that you're an undocumented immigrant.

You're working doing some type of like landscaping, reasonable suspicion, et cetera, et cetera. And that's where we're at this point. Well, you mentioned Arizona, right? I remember many years ago. I forget how long ago it was, right? But, you know, show me your papers. Yeah, show me your paper. SB 9 is state law that was like, well, you know, I can pull you over and ask for your papers

and you better have them on them and show me. And that was like under this reasonable suspicion idea and the reasonable suspicion was, okay, you have brown skin. You might be, you might be Latino. What's crazy about this, man? And it's just, I mean, everything is crazy about it. But, like, you know, I remember going to Laredo, Texas to meet with CBP down there to really, and this was before, so this was my first term in Congress, I'm like, okay, let's get to the bottom, and I want to really understand what's happening with migration. So I went to Laredo, Texas, met with CPP, and then I went to, I literally went to Guatemala and Honduras with Ohan and Corey, and, you know, shout to my first.

former colleagues because we wanted to understand mass migration from the roots of it, right? And what we found was just extraordinary. We found indigenous people in Guatemala and Honduras who were literally like occupying an indigenous space to stop the multinationals from coming in and destroying their ecosystem completely. because it's the destruction of these ecosystems that lead to, you know, 70% poverty, no education system, no opportunity. And so they migrate and leaves them vulnerable to drug trade and the gang stuff and all the stuff that happens in these places. And so they migrate to get away from that. But the multinationals are Western multinationals, Canadian, European, American coming in and destroying.

these places. And I mean, remember when it was... And this is part of the legacy of us doing that militarily. This is U.S. policy. Right? And even just recently, who was it? Hillary Clinton, that said, went to South America and said, we're open for business. Was it Hillary or Kamala? I don't remember. It was one of them. But that's... We can't talk about ICE detaining and deporting migrants here without talking about the rule causes of mass migration. But But the other thing that CPP said was, because I asked them, what percentage of the people that you stop are actually, quote, unquote, criminals are committing a crime outside of coming to the U.S.? And they said much less than 10%, right? And they were being generous because I've heard numbers about, you know, like 95 or more of the people, percent of the people will come are coming seeking asylum. So we're talking about 5 percent. Let's be generous. 5 percent. of people coming here may be coming to do harm, right? And, you know, the scale that to 5% of people in communities.

Because what I've seen in my lifetime in New York City, black, Latino, or otherwise, most people just want to fucking chill, man. Like, we just, we want to go to school, we want to work, we want to, we want to be in community, we want to live our lives. We're not bothering anyone. And then you have someone like Stephen Miller leading all this. stuff and I'm sure you heard his speech at Charlie Kirk's Memorial yeah I mean this guy is like lifted from some gerbils I mean he's a plagiarist too I mean that's the thing with

the fascist but it's like lazy it's like who who is your enemy dog like no one wants no smoke what we just want to live our lives but this guy coming after us this guy you can find a video of him as a teenager like espousing torture and, you know, being angry at Latino. But he's the one running this ice stuff. Yep. Yeah. He, there's a video of him at like some school event on a microphone screaming about why do we have to pick up our trash because we have janitors to do it for us.

This is the kind of person that gets off on humiliating people. And, and, and, you know, we're, I'm curious about this because I saw Hakeem Jeffries the other day declined. to basically say that he thinks Trump is deteriorating mentally. I wouldn't do that if I were him. I would try to take political shots because they don't play by any rules. But like, that's just the tip of the iceberg, obviously. But the Stephen Miller is basically the president right now. Like, that's what it feels like to me.

Him and J.D. Vance and Russ Votes. Yeah. Yeah. And it just feels like Trump is there. and you were reading that Grover Norquist or relaying that earlier, Sam, this idea that we just need a warm body who can sign tax breaks for the rich and executive orders, right? Yep, and knows how to use a pen, or Trump uses a Sharpie, and that seems to be where we're at right now. Like there's this rudderlessness, and maybe not rudderlessness, that's on our end, But there's clearly, it seems like the full on fascists have taken the wheel. And Trump is along for the ride because he just wanted to get out of jail running this time.

Very true. And he obviously has his own, you know, alignment to, you know, the ideology of white supremacy over the course of his career and his dad's career. And so he's right there with him. But yeah, man, you know, I hate to be, you know, redundant. but it's it's a scary time and you know I know we're going to get to what's happening in New York and what's happening in other places I mean this is this if the people aren't going to stand up and take back our democracy now I don't know what what we're waiting for like this is the moment to do it and it's not just with voting obviously that's important but it's with organizing

It's with our intellectual resources, our capital, our time, our building of community. I mean, now is the time to push back relentlessly on all of it. And if this thing has any chance to survive and, you know, we'll see in 2026 and 28 what that looks like. But like this is, this is some scary stuff, man. There's some scary stuff. I want to circle back to New York City because I know you've been working in support of Zoramam Dani. But let's talk about what's happening on a federal level first in terms of the shutdown. Like, what's your, how would you, I don't want to say grade, but like what are you seeing this time around in the way that the leadership is dealing with this?

I mean, it's marginally better than the last time when, you know, it was easier for them to deny what was actually going on, I think, or what was about to happen, et cetera, et cetera. But what is your sense? It's, Congress is a joke, man. Like, I mean, so I'm not even really leaning in or really paying attention to how leadership is. dealing with it, quite frankly, because I've been around this block like a million times. And when I say it's a joke, it's just particularly under Republican controls, even worse than the Democratic control, because at least Democrats, you know, seek to govern at least a moderate level, right?

Right. Right. Democrats, at the very least, are going to, like, do what's necessary to ensure the government doesn't shut that. like we would we would make sure that doesn't have republicans there uh you know and again i've only experienced a trump era i don't know what it was like under obama and bush they're not serious at all um and their whole thing right now do they know they're not serious i mean like yeah i think so talk to these guys in the hall i think so i think they know man because again

i was there for two terms four years and you i started to feel and and realize, like, oh, I'm just, this is theater. Like, this is like wrestling. Like, I'm just a character in this effed up play. And I have my role to play as the progressive guy. And that's just what, at least in the house, right? The Senate may be a little different because they get six years. And the house is two years.

You govern maybe for six, nine months. And then you're running. Right. Your hair's always on fire. where you stay in your pocket of talking points and of the theater of what it's supposed to be. You play your role. And so for the Republicans who have been there for like, you know,

you know, two, three, five, ten terms, they know what it is, right? And so it's just, and it's heartbreaking because, like, person like me and like Corey, who just out of course, she just launched a re-election campaign. Working class people go there to, like, really do stuff for people. And so, like, we can't, I couldn't fathom, like, how we can't raise the minimum wage

or how, you know, the first iteration of Bill Back Better didn't have anything for affordable housing. Like, what are we, like, how does that happen that the bill proposed by a Democratic president at time didn't have affordable housing and Maxine Waters had to force the White House to put it in? I couldn't fathom as a middle school principal who's every day I got to. to make sure my kids are okay. I'm going to the most powerful, you know, democracy government in the world, and we can't do basic shit for regular people.

I just couldn't fathom it. And so when I see his government shut down, it's like, okay, like, you know, Republicans are on their BS. Democrats seem to be holding the line a bit strong on certain things, which is a good sign because the last time it was a joke. And so hopefully Democrats will get some wins out of this, and hopefully sooner rather than later the government will open back up. And I say hopefully because Trump and the administration is so unpredictable.

What is your sense of from both the outside in, right? I mean, you've worked within the community. You know what it feels like to hope to have some type of leadership or material benefit from your representative, but also from the other side. like what is their uh the their how much of a difference does it make when regardless of what the material outcome is of this but the stances that the democratic leadership are taken this time versus last time how much does that filter in um how much is that impact what's happening to people's sort of like sense of what's happening outside like i mean is there uh i'm

curious what your sense is of that and what what your sense is of it like because a lot of times it looks like schumer and jeffreys they think their audience is basically just everybody in uh the morning joe studio and there may have been a time schumer yes yeah but there may have been a time where that was largely true, but I don't think that's true anymore. Yeah, I think, and it goes back to what I was saying before, about being in the house and having to run every two years and the hair always being on fire. Every member is hyper-focused on their districts, right? Like, hyper-focused, like, what, you know, what's happening in my district?

You know, what happened last election that led to me winning, and let me make sure I stay within in that pocket so I can win again. And then Hakeem is looking at that as a leader Jeffreys is looking at that, you know, locally but also nationally, right? And aligning with frontline

districts more so than a vision of what America is supposed to be. So frontline districts are like swing districts. Right. And so what is it? What is it? D-Triple-C, I think it is. So they raise money to support

swing districts. And these are important districts, right? Because you have someone like Shahana Hayes and Johanna Hayes in the, you know, in the swing district. And she might win by like 0.2 percent. And we need to win that seat to have the majority. What's always frustrated me is in these districts, you may have 20, 30 percent of people voting, maybe 35 percent. And so there's another like, you know, 60, 70, 70, 80 percent of people not voting. Like, could we put a plan together to maybe like dramatically increase zero prime voters so that we can crush the next election versus just playing this moderate in the middle uh you know not to lose versus play the win kind of politics and so everyone like like again what zoran just did with

with with um in the new york city primary so everyone's hyper focused on their district Hakeem is hyper-focused on the country through the lens of D-Triple-C, in my opinion, which I don't think is always the right lens. And many of them move, and I'll bring Schumann to this now, move in a way where like, okay, how do we win the majority here, when the majority are through a narrow lens, and they're not, in my opinion, aware of what the majority of working class people in America care about. And it's just, they're just, they're just moving with this D-Triple-C. And then underneath that is the D-Triple-C, the D-SCC, the DNC, the political class, big money, special interests. So, so that is the brain trust of Congress, not the people. And what's so exciting about, you know, I'll put myself in there, but like me and Corey and AOC and Ion, and Ilhan and Rashida and Greg Khazar and Summerlee and deal what's exciting about us is we're about the people man right and this is supposed to be the people's house and again citizens united all that shit special interest control that place but but that way I just want to say like the the consultant class believes that it's much harder to get that any part of that whatever it is 60% that doesn't vote 40% doesn't vote

whatever that number is, then to convince some 5% in the middle that swings. Of course, if Ezra Klein is leading that freaking conversation. Yes. Like, of course. I don't want Ezra Klein to come to the Bronx to try to persuade people in the Bronx to vote a certain way. That's the problem. But let me listen to Ezra Klein and John Podesta. And no disrespect, man, but like, dog.

Anyway, finish. Have you seen examples of, like, because Mamdani was able to get a primary vote out that was the biggest primary vote in the history of the city. And so obviously mobilizing people who didn't, who haven't voted in the past. So it's sort of like there's evidence that that can be done, it just happened. But it's disregarded because, well, it's young people, whatever it's. But have you seen, has there been an example, and we have examples of people who have done that in the context of, you know, that you mentioned, the squad, sort of larger, largely from blue districts, so that's sort of discounted, well, there's something, but the idea that you can motivate people in a blue district versus motivating people in a purple district, it doesn't necessarily logically follow that you can't do that. I mean, there are every types of people in every district. Have you ever seen a situation where somebody's perspective turned toward that way?

Like, it's one thing to say, okay, I'm, I came from, I mean, I remember your race. Yeah, I'm about to say, I'm one of the examples. I interviewed you when you were running in that primary, and, you know, you were coming, you were an educator. And, and you came in with that attitude. Are there people, have you seen examples of people who came into Congress with a different attitude and then develop that attitude as a way of like this is how I can win in the future? No. I wasn't there long enough to experience that in that way. But one person who I think kind of captures what you're saying, he was a House member that ran for U.S. Senate in New Jersey, Andy Kim. So, you know, Jersey can go either way. You know, there's been Republican governors, et cetera.

But he, I think the way he practices politics is, you know, is a good way to practice politics, meaning he talks to everybody. And he's great at communicating and he listens well. And, you know, he's really clear on, like, you know, his objective of serving people, but also like, you know, making this a state for the working class in New Jersey, but the nation for the working class, right, versus the special interests. And so, no, I wasn't there long enough to see, like, you know, someone like a Johanna Hayes, to use her example, you know, going, you know, with a very thin victory and then, like, grow the electorate in her district and then crush it the next year. There might be one that I'm not thinking of. What I'm, but my...

I feel like Pat Ryan is, there's some issues that I don't. necessarily and he's 18th district in upstate but he's a guy who's like who you know it was a weird time when he got in because he had to run like two three times in one cycle but and again i'm not i don't love all of his issues but like he's he's pretty solidly like in a economic populism and and you know he was a county supervisor and a pretty good one this is what i'm saying So that's a very good example, right? Of Pat Ryan, who's a bit younger, has been a good leader before then as a county executive, which is a big job and a serious job and a big deal.

He did that effectively, got in, right, and I could definitely totally see him growing the electorate there. He's one of those kind of people. But again, they all fit a characteristic, right? So maybe a little bit younger, and by younger, I mean under 50. right, under 55, has done something before that shows like you have some chops, right? Like I was a middle school principal. People may not think that's a big deal, but trust me, if you could run a middle school and engage the parents, you know, respectfully.

There's a lot of different constituencies you've got to say. And there's a skill set that you need to do that, that translates to elected office, just like county executive or even a state rep. or a local rep. And so, you know, he's one example. But here's what I would offer also. I mean, you see the money that the political class raises, right? This money is rarely or barely invested in the work that we're talking about.

It's barely invested in actually growing the electorate. Well, that was going to be my question, too. And it feeds nicely into it is because micro-targeting a small slice of voter. And Schumer said this in 2016 that what's the quote, right, Matt, for every A working class person. We lose an arrest bill. We gained two in the suburbs. Exactly.

And so they seem to be hyper-targeting these suburban voters. And consultants get rich if you're micro-targeting a small sliver with TV ads, etc. What Zoron did, what you and the squad did, isn't getting people rich. People power doesn't get people rich because you don't get people rich because you don't get get a percentage off an ad when you're door knocking. And that is like a, I feel like a core of the issue here that we're not talking about. But it's the infrastructure is rotten because the incentive structure is rotten. Yeah.

And it's capitalism, right? So it's also greed and everyone wants to make money, right? And again, Zoron is a, you know, is a generational political talent as AOC was and is and as many others are. so I don't want to underscore that. But Pat Ryan doesn't jump off the page as someone, you know, super dynamic and charismatic, but I think he can do the same thing. And Zoran also did micro-targeting, right? Like all of a sudden, we're talking about the Bangladeshi community in New York more than we ever have.

The Pakistani community more than we ever have. The African-Muslim community more than we ever have. Not just black, Latino, white, East Asian. We're talking about everyone. And the Democratic Party, to me, if it really wants to, like, fight back and save our democracy, you've got to target everyone for real. But if you target everyone, you've got to say something about Gaza. Now, if you start, you know what I mean?

And so this is what I mean by, like, the special interests, right? And so when you can't, I mean, even before the genocide, I mean, they wouldn't say apartheid. would say military occupation. They wouldn't even say those words. You had former Israeli generals and top politicians saying apartheid before a democratic politician would in this country. And I heard you on Crystal Kyle and friends speak about how APAC tried to recruit you. Can you just quickly relay that story a little bit?

Because it was such a fascinating story. We didn't get to it. Yeah. Yeah, no, so crazy. I mean, you know, as a candidate, And, you know, I launched in June 2019. The election was a year away and it was before COVID. So COVID hit like February, March.

So this was before March 2020. And yeah, I'm a candidate. I'm not even polling yet, right? I don't even know what the polling said. But APEC reached out to have a meeting. And they didn't reach out directly on their own. You know, they were shrewd about it, right? They reached out to a leader.

in the black community who happened to work for APAC to try to get a meeting with me to tell me about APAC's objectives and agenda. This leader was in an organization called 100 black men, and he happened to be the executive director of 100 black men at the time, and he reached out to me. I said, hey, we can talk about 100 black men, but I don't want to talk about APAC. Now, thankfully, I was informed about who APAC was because I was endorsed by the Justice Democrats, And they were clear on who APEC was at the time. And shout out to, you know, Alexandra Rojas and Wali Shaheed, who was there at the time. They educated me, so I didn't meet with APEC.

But APEC does that with any young, younger, promising person running for office or elected officials across the country. And this is as you were running against Alliot Angus. Yes. This is 2019. I'm not even polling. Like, I'm not even on the radar yet. And they're reaching out to have a meeting. So they're covered.

They're basically going into the. a roulette table and they're going like we're putting a bet on every we want to put a bet on every single bet here we're putting a bet on everyone and I'm sure if I was game they probably would have took me to Israel you know during the campaign or maybe shortly

after winning but that's how they get down and that's how they loop you in and you know the cell is also pretty good right because no you know we all want to fight anti-Semitism and we all want to support a safe place for Jewish people, right? And so, you know, yeah, like, of course we support that. Of course we're down with that. They probably don't even bring up, you know, occupation or Palestinians or

Palestine at all. They're just talking about their stuff. And so for me, I was lucky because I came in with JD, so I had that education. But they're elected officials all across the country and not just congressional. And they come in and they give a bunch of money. And it's almost like when you start making a little bit of money, you get a mortgage on your house. house and then all of a sudden like wait a second you're gonna you're gonna cut my hours yeah well I'm screwed on my work to my house and everyone hates fundraising yeah no one likes to fundraise and and so when when you run for office for everyone out there and I think people know this already but I'll just say it you got to dial for dollars man like you're calling complete strangers you know Jamal Bowman calling

Sam say there you know hey I'm Jamal Bowman I'm principal running for Congress can you toss me a couple bucks. And you're doing that three, four hours, sometimes five hours a day for like five, six, seven days a week sometimes. And that's what you're doing versus like my whack-ass opponent last

term, George Latimer, he'd have to dial for Dallas. Right. You know what I mean? Apex said, we got you. You know what I mean? Like you're going to have money in your campaign account and we're going to establish this IE over here, the C4 over here, and we'll run ads for you.

you. And we'll just run ads for you. And you probably won't even have to spend your campaign account. Right. All you got to do is just go around and visit people. That's right. Go around and visit people and, you know, shake hands and all that. And we got you with the money. So they make it easier. And not just through them, through many special interests, but they're one of the biggest ones, obviously. You know, that's how they, you know, what is it? 70, 80 percent. I guess Congress takes money from apex and crazy numbers. That number is starting to drop. Which is a Which is exciting. There's a story in the Times today about how, at least nominally speaking, the Democratic Party is moving away from APAC.

And largely because of the protest and because of the work that activists have done have made it toxic for people to take APAC money. And in your race and Cory Bush's race were perfect examples of Republicans essentially, like it exposed the Republican APAC pipeline. and that APAC has become not only, I think, for the support of the worst impulses of Israel, but also has become a fig leaf for Republican money and conservative values to undercut progressives. In Democratic primaries.

Yes. So they're investing in the more conservative Democrat in a particular primary through Republican money. like these are republican donors yeah you know it's like the bill acman in the in the in the in the um zoran quomo and he wanted to get torres to jump into the into the into the race oh my god torres boy i mean yeah it's crazy but it's it's man i hope we could figure this out right because i mean you talk about congressional approval right now across the country is 20 percent for democrats It's just a joke.

And you talk about national security. That's a national security issue when people stop having faith in your federal or local government. And this is part of the Project 2025 and Stephen Miller and all their agenda as well. They want to privatize the federal government. They want to privatize America. So you fire 150,000 federal workers. You close the Department of Education. you, you know, you steal data from Treasury in all these, all these places, right?

You leave the people vulnerable to private takeover, which is what's happening right now as well. So let's talk just a little bit about New York politics. We interviewed just a little bit. I mean, you know, we're five weeks, four weeks away, man. Well, I was being, you know, I undersell things. I always want to exceed expectations. But we interviewed Antonio Delgado the other day, who I think he served with... Yeah, for a term.

Yeah. What's your perspective on that race? And how does that race impact Mamdani's race and what Mamdani might be able to do once he gets elected? Because that, to me, seems like the key. It's a great question. It's going to be an interesting race. It's going to be a tough race. I think there was a time, you know, post-prime.

Was it post-primary? No, post-November. So I guess November 2024 where Governor Hockel seemed very vulnerable, right? And you have people like Richie Torres out there talking junk and all that stuff that he might run. But I think she's stronger now, you know, because I think she's being pushing back strongly against Trump. She, something that's, you know, underreported, you know, she put in this, like, cell phone ban in place in New York City public schools. you know, I'm a public school guy. And all I do is visit public schools a few a week.

And the teachers and everyone are raving about it. I have a picture that I keep texting my son of like they have some type. I can't remember what his name is, but he's like some like Barney character who teaches the kids to put it in their pouches. Yeah. And my kid was so pissed about that. But I was so happy. I have to say. This is what I'm saying.

So that was a big thing she did. But to your question, one of your question. She's about to send out checks for $400 to everybody. That's a Trump move right there. Maybe she'll sign them. Yes. Can I just say just on that thing, it is the greatest waste of money, it seems to me, because it's all going to be, it's going to be subject to federal tax. So we're at a time where Trump is defunding New York State, we're going to be sending out money that New York State that New York State has already collected.

that everybody has already sort of like emotionally let go of. She's just going to give them money as a way of inflating her value to them. And then you've got to give that back to Trump who is not going to send it back to New York. To me, that is, I mean, there's an opportunity there. You know, people ain't trying to hear that, though, right? They're like, you know, give me my check so I can do something with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. She's trying to fortify her left flank.

Absolutely. And that's why she reluctantly endorsed Zoron. Well, this is where I was going. going, right? And so, you know, she, she reluctantly endorsed. It took her a while, but she did. She did it before Hakeem and Chuck, right? And I, I don't think. Everybody has. I don't think, yeah, I don't know. I think Andrew Cuomo is going to endorse as long as before they do. And I think, I think Hakeem is going to do it. I don't think Chuck is going to do it. And I definitely don't think Jillebram is going to do it. But no, but she did that, right? And, you know,

Zoron has some very specific policies that are going to need. state support, like universal child care. And so if she leans, even the free buses, even the free buses also, yep, but if she leans in and does universal child care, that's, that's, that's going to be huge. How much is Delgado in the race forcing Hockel to do these things? Because the idea that he was in, yeah, that was my sense at the beginning of this. Yeah, yeah, I mean, because it's a, it's a race, right? can't allow there to be space on her left flank in a way that she could have if Delgado was not in that race.

A hundred percent. And by left flank, we're talking about, but that also means, like, people can't go to sleep after Zoran wins, right? Hopefully he wins, you know, he hasn't gotten there yet. We need for people to stay engaged because that race is next year. And so take a break, take a breather, but get right back on it because it's our organizing that continues to put pressure on Governor Hokel as well. So I'm encouraged by this because the day after Mamdani won the primary, I was like he's going to have a 12-month window to be able to go up to Albany where Kathy Hokel is going to be unable to publicly say no. to Mom Dhani, in that environment where Delgado is going. And he's going to have that 12 to 18 months, essentially.

I would say less than that. So like 6 to 12. So he's, God willing, he wins in November, right? The budget is due April. And so I think six months, you got to have a big win in that first budget. That's what De Blasio. And that's where his peak leverage is going to be. Correct.

And that's what De Blasio did, I think, with Universal Prey. You know, I think it was that first budget, even though, you know, Cuomo tried to stop him in every turn. I think Hockel would be more collaborative. I hope she... I feel like what Cuomo did, too, at that time was put in a budget that was finite. Like there was not an ongoing, if I remember correctly, not an ongoing funding mechanism. And that funding mechanism only got put in place later after I think it was either Zephyr Teachout took a chunk. out of him in the uh the the statewide run the first one and and that's when he got a little bit

weakened and again had to attack a little bit to the left and couldn't afford that fight yeah he was such a dick yeah he's a huge dick yeah like like just a bully blue truck you know just just yeah just operated as an emperor so petty i sat like i sat in a room around that time with about 40 or 50 people who ran NGOs, some of whom, some union people who all had dealt with Cuomo. And I can't remember who the Republican candidate was,

but they're saying he is such an asshole in terms of like his willingness to ax our funding, to trash, our organizations that we feel like we might be better off with the Republican because they can't do this much damage to it. Now, this was the time when the IDC was still in progress. And thank goodness for, you know, Governor Nixon, who reversed all that in her race against him.

Well, that's a really good point. And I want to just elevate that. Cynthia Nixon runs against Cuomo during a time where many are running against these IDC members in the state legislature, Cynthia gets about 35% of the vote. She loses, but many IDC members win. She made the New York, the voters in those districts understood what IDC was. That's right. That's right. For the first time. That's right. And so, you know, because of ego and arrogance and all that, you know, we're like, if you run, you got to run to win. You got to run to win. But our movement is not just about winning a particular race at a particular time. It's

about moving the agenda, shifting paradigms, changing the conversation. I'll give you one very specific quick example. I was coming out to gym in level fitness, shout out to level fitness at the cusp of the Bronx in Pelham, New York. Coming out to gym, random black dude is like, yo you started a revolution I'm like what are you talking about man he's like APEC man you started a revolution now we know who they are

this is a random apolitical black dude they ran so many ads against me right and we told our own story about that that everyone now in our area knows and everyone across the country knows now because they did the same thing to Corey

and so we and you know my friend Mondale Robinson Cobb. He's a mayor of a rural town in North Carolina. He's like, yo, we got to start framing you and Corey's race as a, reframing it as a win. Because the fact that they had to spend record amounts of money to get you out. And now everyone knows who the hell they are. That's a win for what we're all trying to do. They become toxic. They're so toxic. Disempowered in that context. That's right. That's right. So yeah, we lost seats. But shit, if JD comes back this term,

it gets six, seven, eight seats, which is not impossible because, you know, funders are more engaged and small dollars are more engaged. You know, I'll take that. So speaking of which, what are you, what are you doing? Oh, I'm chilling, man. Well, you've been phone back, you've been, like, you were one of the earliest people on the ground for Zoron, got to give, you know, shout out, but like, we need you back in public service.

Oh, I appreciate that. I mean, I, you know, I kind of feel like I'm in public service. You know, I do my little political and education thing. I mean, I want to be like, I want to be the hood Ezra Klein. You know what I'm going to be like, you know, I'm the, I'm the, you know, what do you call? The hood whisperer, right? Where, like, I'm not talking to Ezra Klein, you know, dumb shit. I'm talking like, you know, to real people on the ground who we're trying to pull in, you know.

I mean, that, I don't know if you saw the ad that we did with Zoran shortly after the primary at the Wu-Tang concert. Yes, of course. You didn't see this, Sam? Oh, oh, did you all see it? Of course. Come on, Sam. I mean, my husband's a big Wu-Tang fan. He was really excited.

Yeah. So that aesthetic, that political aesthetic is Jamal Bowman. Yeah. And so I'm trying to grow that locally and nationally. You know, I'll be in Minnesota in a couple of weeks. weeks supporting young brother Omar Fata there who's running for mayor yeah yeah yeah so i'll be in minnesota and um and i think there's a seattle a seattle mayor that is i don't know about i'm learning about that one i don't know if y'all know that one you got you got to tell me following it a little yeah

okay y'all got to let me know if this person is progressive enough for me to go and support them but that's what i'm doing now and by doing that you know i'm giving the opportunity to like really connect with and build community, which is what we got to do. We got to, you know, if I could use my platform and my experiences as a way to organize and raise money and do all those things, that's what I'm going to do for a while. And then we'll see. We just want to read an I am because I actually, this is a little bit navel gazing, but I am curious. Montana resident writes in, if you read this while Jamal still on,

do Congress members or their staff watch shows like MR or other progressive commentators to get a sense of public sentiment or even to see reactions to policy or speeches or anything else. Because we kind of have a sense. Do we do that is the question? Yeah, that's the question. Yes, especially staffers.

Yeah. When I was, at least when I was there, and just speaking for myself, I was so locked in to trying to be effective at the job that I couldn't always, I didn't know like who was who out there in the podcast universe. But also, to be fair,

this is a universe that has exponentially grown over the last year or two. Five or six years, but I mean, even the last year or two, right, even more. And so, you know, so yeah, but staffers, yes. Like, staffers are really plugged into, especially progressive staffers, or staffers for, like, spot offices.

I am quite sure there's some non-progressive staffers. Yeah, probably. Who check out just to see if somebody, he's, you know, in any way, mocking them. He changed his, I'm sorry, but I'm convinced he changed his glasses because of Sam don't know about this. I am convinced. I don't know if that's true. So one quick thing about that. So like when I was there, I was surprised at how much,

at how much we, we meaning the Democratic caucus, followed and responded to mainstream media. allowed that to determine how we it has been how we responded to X issue yes I remember Steny Hoyer just standing up in front of us is like we can't do that because then CNN's going to say this I was like who can't like why are we using why is that the standard like okay of

of course they're going to say that but this is it the right thing or not there is just do the right thing I have this theory that like you know, 90% of the music I listen to is basically from a like a 10 year period when I was you know from 17 to 27. That's basically I'm locked in there. You're probably right. Me too by the way.

Steny Hoyer when he came in, CNN sort of like exploded on the scene and then Fox and like they're just locked in to politics that existed from like 91 to you know essentially 2000 and completely locked in and as far as they know nothing has changed in terms of the dynamic and they don't want any criticism so they don't want that's the other thing like how can we make this decision or or or take this vote and how do we minimize the criticism or not get any criticism at all and when I say they I mean more like a staff establishment Democrats, you know, at least in my time there.

You know, as squad, we did a lot of things that were controversial on the right and the left. But, but yeah, it's just like, how can you refer, quick reference. I was listening to an audio book of Bray Brown, they're the lead. Shout to Bray Brown. I just think it's a funny reference for me to make on the show right now. But she talks about courage and she talks about courage and vulnerability, right, and how to actually exercise courage and courage and leadership, you have to be vulnerable, which means you're going to open yourself up to taking lumps, right? You're going to take a couple hits. but that's what leadership is. Leadership.

It's doing the courageous thing because it's important and it matters and it moves us all forward, even though people don't get it. I don't see that level of courageous leadership consistently enough amongst our party. Do you think how much of it is generational and how much of it is ideological? Because I'm sure it's not one or the other. But the mix, because, you know, it's not really until, I mean, I watch this in the media in the early odds, like reporters, writers, writers, they could not handle the idea of like what was happening with the blogs where commenters were on the same sort of like plain in terms of the medium where they could get criticism because you're used to like, well, maybe there'll be a letter to the editor. and then I got to go talk to the editor, like, why did you put this one in? It's criticizing me.

I imagine politicians also, there was no, the only feedback loop that they were getting was maybe a writer, you know, David Broder might take you to task or something like that. This is a much different environment where they're, you know, for better for worse. Well, there's a lot more sort of feedback. And people who grow up, particularly as digital natives, or at least not as sort of like, their minds sort of ossified by the time it comes up are aware that like you're going to hear from everybody there's going to be people who are going to criticize you yeah you just need to like sort of like being able to maintain you know watch the horizon as it were as you know and go through

the waves yeah how much of this is generational how much is ideological the signal versus the noise right um i think it's i think it's definitely generational but i also think it's idea i I think it's both and I think it might be ideology a bit more just because I think the ideology of establishment politics is to maintain the establishment and continue to be in support of incrementalism in a way where you're not going to drastically change their lives or meet the needs. of the most vulnerable people in our country. And so when I say maintain the establishment, and since Citizens United, I mean, that's just been big money. You know, the establishment political infrastructure is supported by, you know, capitalism, you know,

and what I called plantation capitalism, right? And so it all feels like, you know, it exists to maintain that, maintain the racial caste system, the economic inequality, and even move further towards privatization of everything, versus move towards actually helping world-class people, working-class people have dignity and the opportunity to access the American dream. And so that's an ideology. I think that's in Steny Hoyer, who's been there forever and Nancy Pelosi who's been there forever and some of the younger more establishment Democrats and I and I I mean I run into how aware are they that they

have an ideology because they they certainly present like I'm not ideological about yeah I mean I I don't know because when I when I hear Ezra Klein talk I'm like is he even aware of like how he how he's coming off I don't know if he's even aware of it. Can you, can you, like, I have that question, too. That interview, I mean, I was shocked. We, we read Tanahasi Coates's op-ed that prompted this, this interview that they did. And it was like, got so much attention.

People were really, really exercised about the Charlie Kirk, you know, kind of whitewashing of his entire career. And I'm seeing this almost like kind of debate online that represents so much of the, the fight within the Democratic Party, like there was major, major backlash from, I think, many communities of color to see this, like, very prominent, uh, democratic, like liberal pundit, whitewash this racist. It was a bit, I don't know, shocking, I guess to me to see how many people even cared, but you've referenced Ezra a few times. So I'm curious like, and we should also say coach is not exactly a firebrand when it comes to, you know, economic populism per se, or at least that that's certainly not where he

where he was when he was sort of like you know on his rise I mean I think like he's far more I think conscious of the implications of race and of marginalized

people broadly speaking I don't know where you know on the sort of like that was the tenor about to be but nevertheless where Ezra is seems totally oblivious to that, right? So when you say, you know, Charlie Kirk was doing politics the right way and much of, if not all of his rhetoric was just punching down on vulnerable people

and straight racist and sexist and transphobic and then saying other wild stuff like calling for public executions to be televised, like just wildness, right? So how is that practicing politics the right way in alignment with the way as recline thinks we should practice politics. How is the action of going to colleges and having conversations with college students separate from what he actually said out his mouth? How are we not doing? How are we not? The guy's organization has a watch list of well of 100 professors.

I mean, to my mind, my assumption, what it really is revealing. about as her client is not as rigorous as he well that's a great that's that's a that's a that's that's and that's why i was like you know disorienting for me and like cognitive dissonance for me right he had a brand but this is a guy also i have to say who was saying that was touting paul ryan back in the day yeah and paul ryan was also just a paper tiger of intellectualism and and and And so this has always been there with Ezra. It's just that there is an awareness by the Democratic voter. They are getting more sophisticated as to what is actually going on.

You can see it in the numbers of like what they wanted for the shutdown. Like the polling numbers on this shutdown are very different than they have been in years past. Compromise. Issues like this. There is an awareness amongst a set. of Democratic voters who were sort of like the classic, I elect my people, you guys take care of it, I've got other stuff to do, they're aware that there's like, wait a second, there's a problem here. And the Republican Party is not, you know, sort of the, this is not Bill Weld

anymore or, you know, George Herbert Walker Bush. It's a different, it's a different ballgame. Now, I would also argue George Herbert Walker Bush was very problematic, but I was a little more sensitive to it. No, no, but I think you said the right word, rigor, like the lack of rigor, right? Like the New York Times, you know, of course, a lot of criticism nowadays, but over the course of my life was considered like the eminent, you know, like the standard as it relates to like journalism and reporting and rigor in like all of journalism. And Ezra Klein is a celebrated columnist for the New York Times. So one would think that. his level of rigor and intellect would be at a level that that raises others up to reach a particular standard.

And when I saw what he wrote about Charlie Kirk initially, I just thought it was super lazy and, like, mad, like, disrespectful to put it lightly. Like, Charlie Kirk was saying like, yo, you know, I'm paraphrasing here, black women are not as intelligent as, as a, I see a black guy flying this plane. I mean, I'm nervous because I think he's there because of DEI. So, Ezra, you're co-signing that? Like, what? Right? With Contagy Brown Jackson and all, like, crazy that he would even hint at co-signing that. But he did, and he did it openly.

Yep. So Tana Heese writes his piece, which was a great response, in my opinion. And then they have this conversation, which, you know, I wouldn't even call a debate. It was like they have this cordial conversation. And Tanaugasi basically, throughout the conversation, is Tanaughey's just pretty much. saying like I'm black this is America this is how it always is and that's why I feel the way I feel about it and I can't believe you whitewashed him you know and again I'm paraphrasing all of this when he was pretty you can argue a hate monger and what bothered me about their

conversation and again I can't even call it a conversation because it's Ezra on his platform asking the questions Tana Heisi would say a particular point of view that I thought was very strong and powerful. He wouldn't respond. Ezra wouldn't respond, yo. Listen, I got news for you. I've had him on this platform and he has the exact same, which is same mechanism. Same disposition, which is not even, again, not just, that's not how you have a conversation. No. Conversation, you say something to me. I acknowledge it. Yes. I reflect. I have some reflection on what you said. Then I make my point.

So I respond to what you said. first, then I pivot to, like, what I want. That's human communication one-on-one. Well, the part that we do that at all. And so every time, I'm sorry, I'll just you face it. No, no, no, no. But every time Tana Heisi responded, and again, like, Tana Heisi and I are about the same age.

Every book I read by him, I feel like he's writing it for me. Yeah. Black men in America, he's Baltimore. I'm East Harlem up the east side slash, right? So I feel like this is my dude. so he's responding as a black man with a certain level of passion and of course brilliance and Ezra's not even acknowledging him and I'm just like this is what it is to be black in America like we we give you our shit our pain our suffering our trauma our perspective our intellect our history our work ethic we do it in classrooms we do it in the workplace we're doing it

in this conversation with Ezra, and you, liberal white man, don't even acknowledge it. And then to make it even worse, you choose whiteness. And to go even further, you choose white supremacy, the ideology, you're aligning yourself with that, just like Gavin Newsom. Right. You know, like, like, so anyway, but that, but to add, I don't know if this part struck you, but for me where I was like oh my God was when

Tani Hisi goes into this you know long thoughtful piece where he speaks about what you're saying about how for black people in this country violence is a constant in politics political violence is a constant and this is maybe 20 minutes in and Ezra says

like I'm paraphrasing obviously but if we zoom out too much and give too much historical context we miss or two determinists and we missed the moment. And that was, for me, like a jaw-dropping moment where he basically said, I don't really care about systemic racism right now.

I've had white people do that to me in my life. The same exact thing. And that's literally what people like, you know, who's a white racist on the republic. That's what they do. Like they say, you know, let's not look at history. How long are we going to be talking about this slavery thing? That's what they do. And he's doing the same thing.

And I'm like, dog, do you know what you're doing right now? And so anyway, we're talking about him. But now let's zoom out to the Democratic Party or the Democratic establishment. This is how they move. So, you know, I'm the crazy one in Congress because I think we should have universal child care and paid leave and affordable housing for every American. And I speak out about it. I'm the crazy one because I'm yelling in the hallway at Thomas Massey about gun violence or why don't you do anything. We just have more chill. I'm crazy because I'm losing my shit in this place because we have a new mass shooting every month or

or shit, multiple times a month or a week depending on the community. And we're just going about our day. Like that, it would drive me crazy. And so, but for them, it's just, you know, it's just, just the ideology, it aligns to one part of the caste system, and it's designed to just maintain that place. And so, and the right feels it too. That's why Trump's initial running on draining the swamp and criticism of the, it works because rural white people feel the same way. Like this is some BS, right?

So it's, that's actually a unifying thing if we could have the right leader bring it together properly yeah some measure of populism the only thing i will say about uh ezra's sort of like inability to understand or uh regardless of whether it's willful or not in terms of like to understand um to understand enough just basic that he wouldn't have written that about charlie kirk although i think maybe it was just sort of a lazy like i just watched uh you know five minutes at a college, but I will say he did very similar thing to me as another white Jewish liberal, essentially, when we were talking about, about sort of broadly what impacts politics. He's very consciously, I think, I think it's a, I've always had a perspective because

I remember when he was an interned, American prospect. And so it's been 20 years I've followed his trajectory. And I always thought it was an obliviousness. But I think there's actually, like, there's brand management that's going on there and a sense that, like, that same sort of dynamic of these are going to, there are certain doors I need to keep open that. maintain my uh my status uh wherever it is and and one of them is to sort of like ride above at various times some measure of investment in politics like emotional investment intellectual investment like it's it's there there's always an attitude of like whoa you getting carried away type of thing uh yeah we got to maintain this thing uh less uh you i

lose my my position yeah in in in this whole grand scheme of things right and you know iron law of institutions i think is what kevin drum used to say like someone would rather be a top you know would you like to ride the bench on the varsity team or be the captain of the jv like that's sort of the yeah and you're you're progressive man you're not liberal i know i know but we got to say that Yes. Because when I first got into politics. No, I'm to the left of liberal, yes. When I first got in the politics and people would speak that way, I didn't know what

they meant, like liberal versus progressive. I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then in the 2024 cycle, I got introduced to the real Westchester County, New York. And it was just mad liberals. You know what I'm saying? These liberals who, like in 2020, Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, they were progressive for five seconds. You know, 2024, they were all liberals.

They were like, Jamal, you better vote for that extra $14 billion to Israel. I'm like, yo, they already defended themselves. This is like December, right? You know, they already defended themselves. I don't think they need $14 billion more to keep going. Jamal, we can't support you. I thought you were Jews for Jamal. Like, this was a Jews for Jamal call I was on.

I thought, you all about people. They shifted. They went from progressive to liberal. But isn't that, though, exactly what Ezra was saying about, we're getting, we, it's, the Zionists is the same thing. History started on October 7th, apparently. And then let's not look too back in far into history and deal with like the whole slavery and the redlining. I had someone tell me that we have to start this conversation on October 7th. There you go. I had that conversation at the breakfast last night. But that's what Ezra said to Coates. Yeah. I mean, isn't that this isn't that liberal ideology? And it's him saying, why are we losing? Why aren't we winning?

Well, we're not winning because we're not aligned enough to Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro and, and, you know, Nick Fuente. Like, we're not aligned enough to, we got to go a little bit. But again, full circle to the point I made about like the D-Triple-C and Democrats in these swing districts, right? Like, again, you have people in these. districts, which I would make the argument, they're probably more progressive, but they're not voting because they're like, you're all full of crap. I'm not participating. But if we actually engaged them in a way that was authentic and really rooted in making a strong democracy healthy

for everyone, I think we could increase voter turnout. And we're raising hundreds of millions of dollars every cycle. Why don't we micro-target or strategically target the people who haven't vote, the zero prime voters. Yeah. You know, that could change things. All right. Well, Jamal Bowman, it has been a real pleasure.

Thank you, man. So much fun to have you in studio and have you here. And really appreciate the work that you have done and are doing. Thank you for making APEC toxic. Or at least making people aware of what they do. And love to have you back.

and hopefully we will have a cause to celebrate in about a month from now the Mamdani hopefully win. Absolutely. Appreciate you. Thanks for having.

Thanks for having. We're going to take a quick break. Head into the fun half of the program. We'll be right back after this. Oh, just a reminder, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member, join the Majorityport.com.

Also, justcoffee. coop, fair trade coffee, and use a coupon code, majority get 10% off. Matt, you want to talk left reckoning quick? Yeah, left reckoning. We got 50,000 subscribers. Thanks everybody for doing that. So yeah, I appreciate it. I maybe push a little bit hard this week, but we got there. So happy about that. So anybody who's not there, subscribe. All right, quick break, fun half. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's

going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now but i think around 18 months out we're going to look back and go like wow what is that going on it's nuts wait a second hold on for hold on for a moment emma welcome to the program hey what is up everyone what is up everyone You did it. Let's go Brandon. Let's go Brandon. Fun crap.

Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint. Everyone, I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today. Fundamentally false. No, I'm sorry. Stop talking for a second. Let me finish.

Where is this coming from, dude? But dude, you want to smoke this? Seven, eight. Yes. Yes? Is it sneak? Is it me? It is you.

Um, it's it's me? I think it is you. Who is you? No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind? We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism. I'm going to guess my life.

Libertarians. They're so stupid though. Common sense says, of course. Gobbled e-gook. We fuck. And nailed him. So what's 79 plus 21? Challenge men.

I'm positively clovery. I believe 96, I want to say. 857. 210. 35. 501. 1⁄2. 911 for a seat.

$3,400, $1,900. $6.5,4, $3 trillion sold. It's a zero-sum game. Actually, you're making you think less. But let me say this. Poop. You can call it satire. Sam goes satire.

On top of it all, my favorite. My favorite. a part about you is just like every day all day, like everything you do. Without a doubt. Hey, buddy, we see you. All right, folks. Folks, folks. It's just the week being weeded out, obviously.

Yeah, suns out guns out. I don't know. But you should know. People just don't like to entertain ideas anymore. I have a question. Who cares? Our chat is enabled, folks. I love it.

I do love that. Look, got to jump. You got to be quick. I get a jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o'clock, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

Outrage. Like, what is wrong with you? Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye-bye. You know, Thank you.