The Majority Report with Sam Seder - 3644 - Trump Brings Oligarch Posse to China; The Artificial Inevitability of AI w/ Alex Hanna

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

It's an Emmajority Thursday on The Majority Report On today's program: Trump reflects on his visit to China where he failed to find any support in his efforts to open the Strait of Hormuz. In fact, moments after Trump's meeting with President Xi, Iran let Chinese ships pass through the Strait. At a House Natural Resources Committee hearing with Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, Rep. Dave Min highlights how China is leaving the U.S. in the dust on renewable energy. Alex Hanna joins Emma for a conversation about her book co-authored with Emily Bender, "The AI Con: How to Fight Big Tech's Hype and Create the Future We Want".   In the Fun Half:   Politico publishes a paper-thin smear piece on Michigan candidate for Senate, Abdul El-Sayed, in which they question his qualifications as a "real" doctor.   Graham Platner responds to his opponents questioning his working-class credentials.   Nick Shirley responds to Hasan Piker calling him medically stupid with a medically stupid response.   Rep. Mike Lawler recounts being accosted by Rand Paul's son with an antisemitic rant.   All that and more. To connect and organize with your local ICE rapid response team visit ICERRT.com The Congress switchboard number is [phone]. You can use this number to connect with either the U.S. Senate or the House of Representatives. Follow us on TikTok here: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase Check out today's sponsors: FAST GROWING TREES:  Get 20% off your first purchase.  FastGrowingTrees.com/majority ONE SKIN: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MAJORITY at www.oneskin.co/majority BLUELAND: Get 15% off your first order by going to Blueland.com/MAJORITY SUNSET LAKE CBD: Use coupon code "Left Is Best" (all one word) for 20% off of your entire order at SunsetLakeCBD.com Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech On Instagram: @MrBryanVokey Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on YouTube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this show at join the Majority Report.com and get an extra hour of content daily. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Thursday. May 14th, 2026. My name is Emma Vigland in for Sam Cedar, and this is the five-time award-winning majority report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Alex Hanna, sociologist and co-creator of the co-author, I should say, of the AICon,

how to fight big tech's hype and create the future we want. Also on the program, Trump arrives. in China for his high-profile meeting with Xi Jinping, flanked by U.S.-based oligarchs like Elon Musk, Tim Apple, and Jensen Huang of NVIDIA. Soon after the meeting, Iran reportedly let Chinese tankers through the Strait of Hormuz. A U.S. intelligence analysis finds that China is getting a major economic edge on the United States due to the Iran. war. Huh? Who would have thought? Murkowski joins Collins and Paul is the third Republican senator to vote to stop Trump's illegal war in Iran. But of course, Federman stays with the

GOP and it failed 50 to 49. Vance says the administration is suspending $1.3 billion dollars in Medicaid payments to California because Blue State. Drugs? Whatever. They hate fraud. Oh. Trump administration hates fraud. They just hate fraud. Some good news. Alligator Alcatraz being shut down in Florida. Louisiana senators advance a new map to disenfranchise black voters and South Carolina

and Georgia's governors call for special sessions to do the same. The Israeli government is filing a lawsuit against the New York Times. You know, the pro-Palestinian New York Times. After Nicholas Christoph

wrote an op-ed about the systemic rape of Palestinian prisoners, which we have been talking about on this program for years, and there's video of it, but lawsuit time. A federal judge temporarily blocks U.S. sanctions

on the U.N. Palestinian. special rapporteur Francesca Albany's. The Senate votes to confirm Kevin Warsh's chair of the Fed. Once again, Federman

joins the Republicans. Okay. I'm so, so, so tired of him. Claudia Shinebound denies knowledge of CIA operations in Mexico. Come on, girl. Come on, girl.

And lastly, the tobacco lobby gets what it pays for. The FDA is issuing new guidance to give them approval to sell flavored vapes in the United States, which are pretty much marketed towards children, and that's why they had not been approved yet. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody.

It's an M Majority Report Thursday. Hello, Matt. Hello, Brown. welcome. Hello. Do you, not to pick you up on that, but do you know, do you know Shimebaum?

I don't know, I haven't followed the Shimebaum story. Do you know that she knew about the CIA activity? I've been reading that there have been some people on the Mexican left that are very skeptical about this. Also because of her kind of more tough on crime orientation compared to Amlo, her predecessor, people anticipate that that's potentially how, you know, she's kind of looking the other way or,

people are speculating that she's looking the other way as a kind of way to appease Trump. And it's sort of worked. He wants to look tough on the drug cartels. And she also has an interest in that because we don't live in Mexico, but the cartels really do wreak havoc and terror across the country and in those communities. And so she's developed a more tough on crime posture is my understanding. People can correct me in the IMs, if that's the case. but I would just, you know, I'm not sure. I would just say I'm not sure as to that

as to whether the Mexican left is right on that. Well, then, open question. People can, I am in and give their thoughts on this. Exactly, exactly. So the big story today, obviously, is Trump's China trip that has begun. He went over there, flanked with over, flank by over a dozen

high profile American-based CEOs. You have Tim Cook, Elon Musk, Jensen Wong of NVIDIA, and then also the CEOs of different financial firms like Citigroup

Goldman Sachs, but Boeing in particular, because that's the most likely deal to come out of this summit. By the way, the CEO of BlackRock is going, didn't conservatives hate Black Rock for being way too woke because they had ESG

environmental, social and government and governance, I think is the third word investing. I thought they hated Black Rock, but now Trump loves Black Rock again. As I mentioned with Boeing, the administration is kind of already teasing that Boeing

is going to get a major deal with China. They're in competition with Airbus. Airbus and Boeing are worried about China being the largest market in year down the line decades from now. So Boeing wants to get back into that market, despite the fact that they've had some incredibly high profile malfunctions in their aircrafts in recent years. But, you know, this is how Trump thinks he is negotiating or is a good negotiation tactic. He's done

this like maximalist tariff strategy. And now he comes with all the big guns and all the billionaires to go into China and try to make some deal. He wants to go back to the United States and say trillions and billions and we won this negotiation, but the only way that the U.S. could come out with like a big fish by any real

standards would be to get China to formally agree to buy NVIDIA chips and that's unlikely to happen, but it is interesting that Huang went along for the ride on this trip. The more likely outcome is that they're going to get some agricultural deals done.

Boeing will get a cut there, and Trump will declare victory. But what was interesting this morning was that Iran, in the midst of this summit, allowed Chinese ships to pass through the Strait of Hormuz. Now, China is Iran's most important purchaser of oil. Iran's oil is like 10 to 15% of China's crude imports but as we're going to establish in just a second China's negotiating position

as it relates to energy is stronger than the United States could be if we were in their position with our energy infrastructure because we are quadrupling down on fossil fuels and China is looking to the future because they have centralized state planning as opposed to an oligarch billionaire-run corrupted government. Here's Trump on with Sean Hannity last night asking about the war on Iran and China's support for Iran in that context.

The issue and you've been asked about it and you've spoken about it and that is China's support. of Iran. How big a discussion was that today? We discussed it. I mean, when you say support, they're not fighting a war with us or anything. No. He said he's not going to give military equipment. That's a big statement. He said that today. That's a big statement. He said that strongly. But at the same time, he said, you know, they buy a lot of their oil there. And they'd like to keep doing that. Okay. They would like to keep doing that. The thing is that China just by the nature of being less dependent on oil, doesn't have to worry about this as much.

One, China has worked in recent years to establish strategic reserves, but two, I bring you this carbon brief study from earlier this year, where we see how far along China is in terms of diversifying their energy resources and becoming truly energy independent. When American Republicans,

capitalists here talk about energy independence. They just mean that U.S.-based oil and gas companies or Western oil and gas companies are getting rich. And by the way, they are getting rich off of this Iran war because they get to raise their prices too. They've adjusted their earnings reports. I saw ExxonMobil among other U.S. oil companies are saying, like, look, this is going to be a real windfall for us

because we get to raise our prices too. And we just take home that money, even if we're not affected by the Strait of Hormuz closure. That's when they talk about energy independence. They just mean like, let's juice up the existing oil and gas companies for all their worth, even as the planet burns. China's able to build out actual infrastructure that benefits them as opposed to making sure that a handful of people get rich and gouge us at the pump in the process. So we've cited this before, but this was a big study that came out earlier this year, from Carbon Brief.

China's CO2 emissions have now been flat or falling for 21 months. And the key findings here just at the summary at the beginning. One, it shows, yes, that emissions have been flat or falling overall

for that period. Don't scroll, please. Scroll back up, yeah. The findings here. CO2 emissions fell year on year in almost all major sectors in 2025, including transport,

3%, power, 1.5%, and building materials, 7%. The key exception was the chemicals industry where emissions grew 12%, but still, overall, it's a decline. You can see there a more than 7% decline in CO2 from cement, even though there was a slight uptick in fossil fuel emissions allowed for an overall decline there. The key exception, as I mentioned, was the chemicals industry, but this is what's important here. Solar power output increased by 43% year on year, wind by 14% and nuclear 8%, helping push down coal generation by 1.9%. And then also, keyly, energy storage capacity grew by a record 75 gigawatts well ahead of the rise and peak demand of 55 gigawatts, meaning their energy storage capacity is outpacing the demand that they need. for electricity in the entire country of China. And as a reminder, China is growing at its most rapid pace yet.

So they're declining their carbon emissions. They have more capacity for energy storage than they even need as they're growing in that way. And it also makes them less reliant on foreign oil. Keep that in mind here when we listen to this exchange with Representative Dave Min and Doug Bergam. Doug Bergam, Matt, your guy. He's a billionaire software guy from North Dakota who

is a billionaire because he sold his software company to Bill Gates. Also, I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of solar farms that are being built right now in North Dakota. At least wind farms. I'm sorry, that's what I meant to say, wind farms, which makes total sense

given the topography and the climate there in in North Dakota. But Doug is, you know, there to just tout oil and gas. But he just seems to have absolutely zero understanding of simple facts about energy. There's another clip that maybe we'll play later where he doesn't seem to understand that solar panels have batteries. He doesn't even seem confused.

He seems completely uninterested. I mean, why would he be? Right? Like Trump is, why would he be interested in this? Trump is canceling and using taxpayer money to halt renewable energy projects that are already underway. This whole vibe is just like, whatever. Yeah. So, but he and Marker Rubio, I feel like in this administration, they have the energy of somebody who should know better or should be a more respectable person, but they epitomize the banality of evil in this instance.

So here is Dave Min talking to Doug Bergam about how. how far China is ahead of us right now in the energy competition? Energy dominant, Secretary. I just ask you a simple yes-no question. Do you agree that China is also trying to achieve total energy dominance? Yes, no. Okay, it's not a yes-no. I'll reclaim my time.

Do you know how much new energy China put online last year? New energy. Intermittent or baseload? And any, all energy. 543 gigawatts. Do you know how much of that was renewable? I do not know how much of it did not operate. It was 434 gigawatts.

But only when the wind is blowing in the sun or shining. They put on 434 gigawatts annually. 80% of the new energy that they put online last year was renewable. 80%. You don't have to take my word for it. I'm Asian, so good at math, but you can look that up. 80% of the energy they put up was renewable. Okay.

Meanwhile, the United States, under your, quote, total energy dominant strategy of rejecting renewable energy, put up 53 gigawatts of new energy last year. less than 10% of what China put up. Now, your clear bias against renewable energy in the face of all evidence is harming our national security, harming our ability to have energy independence, and putting us further and further behind the Chinese. And the cancellation of Total Energy's offshore wind leases last year is a case study on your department's economically illiterate and unlawful energy strategy. In March 2026, Trump settled with Total Energy's a French oil company for $1 billion in exchange for cash. cancellation of its offshore wind leases. If completed, Total Energy's projects would have produced

enough energy to power 1.7 million homes in the United States. Furthermore, the administration paid this company a billion dollars again from a fund strictly reserved for settlements resulting in active or imminent litigation requiring monetary compensation, which was not the case with Total because, in fact, in March 2026, the CEO of Total told CNBC that their company had approached you had approached the federal government for reimbursement after Trump had paused all offshore wind permitting. So again, a simple yes-no question for you. While constituents deal with sky high utility prices, do you think it's appropriate that your department sent $1 billion to a foreign oil company to stop producing energy? There are so many things that you said that are

false or misleading. I don't know where to start. But I will start with one thing that TOTEL was refunded their money. They essentially gave the U.S. government a interest-free loan, and their money was refunded to them. I know you've described this as a refund in the past. I'm not an interest in semantics. You gave them a billion dollars to stop producing energy. It's not semantics. It is semantics.

You gave them a billion dollars out of a fund reserve for settlements. Is that not true? You gave them a billion dollars out of a fund reserve for legal settlements. I didn't give them anything. We refunded their money, but only under, only if only if only they gave them a billion dollars. right how are you want to share with which they have already invested in energy my time thank you very much they've already invested that money in energy project yeah um they uh that he's referring to that because i believe that was off of the coast of uh oh no it wasn't off the coast of california either way

there are a variety of different examples of this too um that was not that one i believe that this was the one uh that was off the coast of new york and north with Carolina. I'm not necessarily sure it's hard to keep track, but there are multiple different projects, again, that were started under the Biden administration with the infrastructure bill, that the administration is just scrapping. Because we've talked about what Trump really represents here. And I think you can throw Netanyahu in that. And even Vladimir Putin, as they are of similar age, this is a great. group of incredibly corrupted, wealthy, power-hungry players in the world that are more interested

in taking what they can while they can while their time is here on Earth. They are completing goals and projects that people of their class and of their age bracket have wanted for quite a while. Trump is just giving away everything on that front, whether it's appeasing the Cuba Hawks that he came into power with, whether it's appeasing the Iran Hawks and the Zionist lobby that he came into power with, and whether it's appeasing oil and gas companies here in the United States. They are trying to, with their limited time on Earth, make the world in their image and make as much money as humanly possible. whether it's the Greater Israel Project, whether it's Russia expanding its territory into Ukraine, and then whether it's Trump stealing as much as he can from the federal government and doing as many corrupt deals as possible,

so his stupid inbred kids are set up for life. Crypto, burn the planet, destroy wind farms, oil and gas will get rich. That's all that matters. Me and my buddies. This is the same guy that had Rex Tillerson as his first secretary, area of state, who was an oil and gas CEO. It's the same impulse now. He's just completely unchained.

And the stakes are even higher, and he's even more untethered from really any political constituency. He's going out there and saying that he doesn't care if Americans are hurting financially because he's more interested in pursuing a war with Iran. He ran this time around as the no new wars guy that's going to fix the economy. And he's tanking the economy for Israel, for war with Iran. And any deal that happens here with China, by the way, is also a repudiation of his core brand proposition to use a Samism. The America first thing.

Like, what manufacturing is coming back to the United States with this meeting in China? That's not happening. He's bringing a bunch of billionaires there to do deals for aerospace, maybe some far. farmers won't go out of business now if they are able to actually get some sort of agricultural deal, because we've seen what happened after Trump placed those insane tariffs on China and what soybean farmers have had to deal with in this country. But even that, hey, it's part of the same project of consolidation and getting the same people rich, right? If farms close down, then big ag gets to buy it up.

Trump's in bed with the big players in all of these industries, the monopolies. I just headline this. Tobacco has had a resurgence because all of these industries knows that they can pay to play with Trump. Tobacco is able to circumvent regulatory protocols right now in order to get flavored vapes approved that are marketed to children. They know that this is their time. Lena Kahn's not in there anymore. Come on. Let's do this merger, X, Y, Z. So I've used this analogy before, but I think it's apt. They have locked the doors to the house and they feel the populist anger and the people banging down the door. They know they're going to break down the door eventually. So they may as well grab all the treasure and head out the back way while they can.

And that's how I describe this administration and its collaborators. In a moment, we're going to be talking to Alex Hanna about AI, which is also. So similarly burning up the planet and about making some tech broligarchs rich. But first, a word from some of our sponsors here. I would like to thank One Skin for sponsoring today's episode. You have heard about One Skin before, whether you are someone who tries every new skincare product that hits the market or you've been just using the same one or two things for years.

At some point, most of us realize our skin isn't keeping up. the way it used to. That's what one skin changed for me. It didn't just make my routine better. It actually works differently. I decided to get serious about having an actual skin care routine now that I'm in my 30s where you got to stick with it. You can't just sporadically put on moisturizer and things like that. And one skin makes it really easy because as we age, some skin cells stop functioning the way that they should. longevity scientists call them zombie cells, and that is what is actually driving those visible signs of aging. The fine lines, the loss of firmness, the dullness that creeps in over time.

One skin's OS1 peptide was specifically engineered to address those. So you're getting everything you expect from great skin care with OS1 doing something most skin care was never built to do. I use that daily moisturizer, the OS1, and I love in particular, their eye cream. Now, the skin around your eyes is very sensitive, but it's also susceptible to fine lines if you're smiling and laughing a lot. My eyes kind of disappear when I smile because I got small eyes and I get really crinkly around there, so I got to take care of that. Don't want the deepest crow's feet imaginable, and one skin has been helping me with that. It helps with elasticity. It makes your skin look brighter. I love the fact that the texture

and the density isn't too heavy, but it also isn't too watery, so it feels completely substantial. You don't really need a complicated routine to get healthier, brighter, younger-looking skin. Born from over a decade of longevity research, One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging,

helping you unlock your healthiest skin now, and as you age. For a limited time, try One Skin with 15% off using code majority at one. One skin.co slash majority. That's 15% off oneskin.com with code majority after you purchase. They will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

Link down below in the video and episode description and at majority.fm. Get 15% off one skin with the code majority at www.1.orgon.co. Did you know fast growing trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers? Well, it's springtime, and it's time to start thinking about this kind of stuff. Fast-growing trees has all the plants

your yard or home needs, fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, houseplants, and more, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's your local nursery, but anywhere you live, with more plants than you will find anywhere else. Whatever you're looking for, fast-growing trees has options that work for your climate, your space, your lifestyle. It makes it easy to get your dream yard.

You can just click, order, grow, and get healthy thriving plants delivered to your door. They're alive and thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy, no green thumb required, just quality plants that you can count on. Plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts that can help plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them every step of the way. I don't have a green thumb. I'm very bad with plants, but fast-growing trees has made it easy.

They also sent it in a box where you can just see that, like, okay, it's securely packaged, it arrived healthy, and I was able to personalize it to make sure that the plants that we have in the apartment are healthy for the cats. It can be really inconvenient

to shop for plants in person, especially if you don't have a car like myself. Fast-growing tree sends it right to your door. Right now, they have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off select plants. And our audience gets 20% off your first purchase when using code majority at checkout. That's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at fastgrowing trees.com using the code majority at checkout. Fastgrowingtrees.com code majority. Now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use majority to save today. Offer is valid for limited time terms

and conditions may apply, link down below in the video and episode descriptions and at Majority.fm. And lastly, you know, I've been thinking a lot about plastic and the planet, not just the stuff we throw away, though, the tiny particles that we don't see. And here's something wild, plastic doesn't just disappear, it breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces that stick around in our environment. I want to be mindful about that, including the cleaning products that I use every day and that we use here at the majority report studio. We've heard a lot about microplastics in oceans and foods, but they can come from the products that we use every day at home, including cleaning products. Blue Land makes dish, laundry, and other household

cleaning products designed to reduce single-use plastic. Their cleaning tablets are 100% plastic-free and microplastic free. They are independently tested to perform alongside major brands, and the formulas are made without dives, parabins, or harsh chemicals. Blue Land is trusted in over one million homes, including mine, and including this office. You've got dishwasher tablets, proven to perform on baked on, burnt on stains. You don't need rinsade. Laundry tablets, proven to lift the toughest stains, from grass stains to food stains. You got the toilet tablets.

You can just throw them in there. Works on stains, rust, limescale, hard water, and. more. Blue Land is a certified B-Corp and Leaping Bunny Cruelty-Free Certified. Their formulas are EPA Safer Choice Certified, and many products have also earned cradle-to-cradles gold material health certificate. Make the switch today. Get 15% off your first order by going to blu-land.com. That's 15% off your first order at blu-land.com slash majority. Blueland.com slash majority. and we will put a link to that in the video and episode description and at majority.fm. Quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by Alex Hanna.

We are back and we are joined now by Alex Hanna, sociologist, director of research at the distributed AI Research Institute, Dare and co-author of The AICon, How to Fight Big Tech's hype and Create the Future We Want, written along with Emily Bender. Alex, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me. Of course. So I'm going to start with a question that is as simple as possible,

because it sounds a little silly, but it's important. What is AI? A lot of what is called AI seems to be a bit of a marketing gimmick to make other technologies sound sexier. What is AI? What is not AI? Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. AI is a marketing term. Everything is something called AI these days.

And what has happened is that this most recent technology, chatbots and image generators, stuff like chatGBT or Claude or co-pilot, those technologies which produce synthetic texts based on other text inputs are called AI, and that is then subsuming so much of other stuff that we've had for decades that is now being called AI. So now if you have some kind of an image detection system, that's AI. If you have something that forecasts the weather, that's AI. Everything has been colonized by this term. It's better when we're talking about technology specifically to think about what's being automated. So is it something like a classification task?

Is it a recommendation algorithm like you have on TikTok or Instagram? Is it something else entirely? Calling it AI really makes it seem like it's magic, and it's really giving more kind of rhetorical power to what these companies are building. The rhetorical power is also obviously omnipresent in this push for inevitability, the idea that this is inevitable,

that this needs to be adopted. I mean, I don't know if you saw this, but there have been probably in the past month, three or four very prominent female white celebrity ladies that have come out, whether it's Reese Witherspoon, I saw Demi Moore said something the other day. Who was the other woman? Sandra Bullock, we covered this a few weeks ago,

and we were laughing about, like, you have to understand it. You have to adopt it. like and if you're a good feminist you're adopting AI and we were like what is it and what are we supposed to be doing with this and why are you so vague and why is this all coming at once um it's the the you have I think two kind of marketing uh things at play here it's what you're talking about everything's AI all of our technology is AI and look how fancy this is even if it already existed maybe 20 or 30 years ago and also also AI is inevitable.

Yeah, and we're seeing this a lot, and I think you're spot on the analysis, and part of that comes, I think, from this huge drive to adopt these technologies. Part of it, just because so much of our economy is tied up in effectively seven companies right now, and that is driving something like 75% of the economy. So it looks very good for the investments of Reese Witherspoon and Sandra Bullock and whomever else to say, you need to be using this. And then they're doing this thing, which we've seen in education and an employment too, which is you must learn AI.

Otherwise, you're going to be left behind in the job market. And we're getting such weird signals because they might be saying that, but then Sam Altman and Dario Amadeh, and Satya Nadella are saying, we're actually going to replace you on the job, and we're actually going to take away your job. And so somehow you're supposed to also learn it, but you're going to be replaced.

And we're getting these really weird mixed signals here. The fact that they're saying it's like a feminist thing or it's an equity thing, it's also the case that women don't use these tools as much, specifically chatbots. And I think that's a lot of it's because, a lot of the labor that it seems to be replacing or purported to replace is very often done disproportionately by women, things that are like secretarial or transcription, things that

are thought of as grunt work. But this work actually takes a lot of skill and actually requires you to navigate really complex social relationships. So it makes sense that women are not, are pretty suspect of these tools. And there's actually a huge usage gap. So it's very weird that we have these very prominent women telling us to use it. Well, I mean, that must be deliberate then. They must be getting the metrics and seeing that women are less likely to be using these chatbots. And something that, you know, in looking in reading your book and looking at some of your work, I hadn't really considered how the language or the chatbots in particular are constructed in a way,

that they create the illusion that AI can replace human labor by making it sound human. So I could see women and, yeah, sorry, us women were a little bit more maybe in tune with feelings and emotions just socially conditioned in that way, being less drawn to the, I guess, kind of performative humanism of AI that's really just there to kind of manipulate you into thinking it's, it can replace human labor because it sounds like you're emailing with a human being or something. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, these systems are designed intentionally to make it seem like you're communicating with the sentient being before chat GPT. There had been models, the GPT models, one and two models. And they were an interaction system that would provide text based on the process. but would not reply in this, I'm going to help you in this kind of way, or you're absolutely right.

So those are engineered features of these technologies, and they're structured in such a way because they have a higher amount of adoption. After Chad GPT was released in November 2022, its adoption took off, and it was the first time they had put it in this kind of chat interface. And so, like we say in the book, a lot of what we do as humans is that we like to anthropomorphize. We see our faces. We see faces in cars. We'll see faces in trees. We read the faces of our pets. And, yeah, we want to ascribe some kind of intent or reasoning behind them.

But that's often a function of what we do with language. We see texts and we attribute a mind behind the text. And so a lot of what's happening is that. And when it comes to thinking that they can replace things like social workers or therapists, so much of that is an understanding of what the work those folks are doing is providing the right kind of words that are going to either give the right advice or direct somebody towards alternative self-care plans. But those roles are relational.

They're about building connections. with people. The sociologist Allison Pugh has a book called The Last Human Job. And in the book, she talks about all the work that is, quote, unquote, connective. It's the work of nurses and chaplains and people that work in the hospital. So much of that is about connection. It's not just about the words or the types of things that are outputted from a system. No, it's about the relationships. And what it means to connect one-on-one with a human? And that may not be quantifiable, but I can venture to guess

that anybody that's interacting with an AI therapist is probably not getting the same level of care that they would be getting if they had access to health care. I mean, this is a health care problem in general, but I guess that's a bit of an aside. because what occurs to me from your work is just that the structure of the conversational nature of the chat bot appears to be more designed to appeal to, say, investors, because it is a foundation of their overall pitch for what AI is supposed to be. as we have these very wealthy female celebrities talk about how we need to be adopting this or we're going to get left behind. The reality is that the fact that the chatbots sound more conversational and more human feeds into why we're going to be getting left behind or why you have these firms that are more susceptible to this argument,

that human labor can be replaced by chatbots because the chatbots are designed. designed to sound human. And as we've seen from things like Theranos, rich people get duped all the time and they're just as dumb as the rest of us. And they seem to be buying this hook, line and sinker, especially when you can sell to them, hey, you're going to be able to cut your labor force and save a lot of money. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, rich people are investing in this because it is this threat to labor.

In addition, the companies are making these types of technology to maximize attention. these are actually not really profitable products, actually. I think OpenAI registered something like $13 billion of revenue last year. Compare that with the something like $600 billion of investment that they've had to put into data centers and the different architecture that they need to make this stuff run. Anthropic, I think, is maybe producing more revenue because I think they found that in some cases, the use of these tools for computer programming may be able to find a way to cut cost, although the jury is actually very out on that too,

and it's making computer programming jobs really, really awful. And so a lot of it is the maximization of attention. And there's a bunch of people using these tools for things like therapy, because, as you said, Emma, therapy is just not very accessible in the U.S., I mean, many parts of the world. And so people are turning to these tools because it seems like it could provide some kind of a semblance of therapy. But we've seen all kinds of kinds of tools directing people towards self-harm, in some cases, suicide, towards this phenomenon that people are calling AI psychosis, the idea that they have some kind of a special knowledge that only they are accessing. This is a phenomenon that AI research is called synchifancy.

Basically, it's complimenting you. But if you have an actual therapist, they're not just going to compliment you ad nauseum. They're going to be like, let's think about practices of navigating your mental health. Let's think about strategies. Let's think about talking about really difficult things and challenging you to think through them. It's a truly relational process. It's not one that's just guided by trying to keep your eyes on the, as much as possible.

Or just temporarily validating your feelings of whatever you're going through. I mean, it is striking how chat GPT in particular goes out of its way to praise you. And you can see where somebody who might be teetering on the edge can develop a psychosis because you get validation in a world that is incredibly insecure. year. And I mean, with this economic precarity that people are experiencing, we keep hitting every quarter records of credit card debt. Hey, you can't afford a therapist. Why don't you go on chat GPT and talk about your life? And this computer is going to come back and tell you, hey, you're okay. This is right. Feel this way. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's really

out of step with where people are socially and economically. It's not just that people are underemployed or unemployed. I think the, I saw a statistic that said something like new college grads. The underemployment rate is 41.5%, which is absolutely incredible. It hasn't been that high since the pandemic began. And we have this deterioration of social, services and social places where people might be able to have friends that also check in on them or have close ties. And so this is a technology of really pushing us towards being more atomized and more disconnected from people rather than making people more social.

And it's a really perverse thing because so many of these CEOs, Sam Altman and Mark Zuckerberg, they talk in the language of connection and sociality. But they're anything but. Can you talk more about its impact on art? Because I'm back to these actresses. I mean, it's such a bastardization of what, like, art is supposed to be about. And I know that there are limits under capitalism to, like, artistic expression. And then Hollywood as a gatekeeper for artistic expression presents numerous challenges.

But, like, we're seeing in, we can take that industry, but other artistry and particular, but in Hollywood, for example, like, work is drying up. Even with this past, sag after a deal, you see there, uh, that these production companies are trying to get around some of the AI guardrails that maybe were not as, uh, fortified as they should be to begin with. But just like how, um, AI has, uh, really, is really a war on artists in a variety of different ways. and how it's amazing that like intellectual property, the AI CEOs here are obsessed with maintaining their IP and that's why we should be in competition with China over AI

because we have to have the intellectual property. We have to own our AI systems. But how we develop them is by stealing everybody's art. That's right. Yeah. It's a big, you know, intellectual. property for me and not for the situation where they're like, well, we can't give our code or talk about the data that we use to train these models because that's a trade secret.

But we're going to scrape everything that's not nailed down on the internet to train these models. We're going to allow our users to replicate the style of certain artists or to either visually or in music. There's all these platforms are flooded with AI slop in video, in images, in music. And even though, as you said, there are strong protections or there, I would say there's stronger productions with the WGA, the WGA, the Writers Guild of America, there's not as strong protections for Sagdafra guild members. and that's caused a huge issue. And a lot of the areas that we are actually seeing some of the worst of it is for animators

and people that have a lot of turnover in the guild system. So even though you have people like Daniel Kwan and Joseph Gordon-Levitt saying, we're against AI, there's a lot of people below the line who are not getting protections. that you are not typically going to know. These are thousands of animators that are being told either use these technologies or we don't need you in this case. We've got this thing. And then we're going to then contract you to clean up all the weird artifacts,

the six fingers or whatever. And so there is so much work drying up there for concept designers, for people who are graphic designers, for anybody doing that really hard work and has taken so many years to hone their craft. So it really is a war on artists. And ironically, it is won wades by all the stuff they put out on the Internet beforehand. In those industries that have strong guild systems that you have to be in the WGA to be able to write for Hollywood, that's been helpful, but it hasn't really prevented this huge downward pressure.

her coming from studios. You mentioned Joseph Gordon Levitt there. I haven't really looked that much into some of his advocacy on that. Maybe you can shed some light. I've seen some criticism from, you know, I follow Taylor Lorenz's really great work.

Agree with her on a lot. Just agree with her on some things, but I know she's been critical of his advocacy. Perhaps you can expand on that. But I am also curious about what you've seen out of Washington that has been I guess disappointing because like

Bernie Sanders is one of the the best politicians in the country and obviously I'm preaching to the choir with this audience but he's bought into some alarmism about AI that I'm wondering if you could shed some light on I know you've been a bit critical of it of that type of alarmism.

So yes so So Joseph Gordon Levitt has had some weird advocacy, and he's been, I think there's, and I don't want to say mis-speak, because I think he's had a very weird position on some of it. That's been very much about what is very public about AI use. Like, you can't generate a whole movie on that using some of these technologies. And part of it's because his partner is someone who's very enmeshed in the AI industry as like, some of these conversations. Some of those conversations are based on this idea of existential risk, which is, and there's a group of people who are, they also use the terminology of AI safety.

Now, AI safety sounds very good. Yes, we want AI to be safe, but that research community focuses primarily on harms that may be due to the extinction of all humanity. And this is a group that has actually existed for quite some time. They are rooted in the philosophy of affected altruism. And there's an essay by, there's an academic paper by Emil Torres and Timit Jabrew, who is the founder of Dare where I work, about this bundle of ideologies called Tuscreal.

One of them is effective altruism, which effectively says, well, we need to maximize the good we do in the world at the lowest cost. So it's kind of this ultra utilitarian view. Effective altruists and the people who are associated with the existential risk camp believe that machines are going to kill us all. They play into the Terminator types of tropes that we see all over science fiction. And they're basically saying if these chatbots primarily don't believe in what humans believe, then they're going to either optimize things incorrectly and they're going to either, say, turn us into paper clips, or they're going to realize that humans don't actually have the same ends as them, and then they're just going to eliminate us all.

So Bernie Sanders has fully bought into this ideology. He's associated with a few organizations amongst them, The Future of Life Institute, headed by a guy named Max Tegmark, as well as other organizations affiliated with that movement, and has been saying that we need to really be worried about this existential risk. The problem is that that movement is largely funded by a certain other set of billionaires. It's not actually that different. Elon Musk has given the Center for AI,

and Future of Life Institute. Other folks, like there's these crypto folks you haven't heard of, they're dumping huge amounts of money into this. And the thing that AI safety does is it really distracts from actual real policy intervention on current harms, including things around polluting the information ecosystem, environmental issues, labor displacement, and, labor oppression and things like non-consensual intimate imagery. There's so many existing problems with generative AI,

but directing stuff into AI safety is orthogonal to those issues. They're directing policy initiatives in the wrong way. And so we saw this in California. We had a bill called SB 1047, and there was a huge debate around it, and it was an AI safety bill. And it took all the energy out of the room to talk about things like jobs, to dock things like protecting artists and their intellectual property, to talk about things like non-consensual intimate imagery.

That's a huge issue. And Bernie has a bill that he's proposing on a data center moratorium that is very AI safety-centric. I applaud the data center moratorium, and there's been 69 moratoria pass around the country, at different types of local and state levels, the largest one being in Maine, that they're governor vetoed.

And there's a lot of energy around this across the aisle, but we're not getting really great things from the left or the right on this. And so we really need a focus on the current harms of AI and really ignore this existential risk thing, which is a red herring in a way to, not actual intervention into AI. Well, it's also convenient for the narratives that we just spoke about. The inevitability narrative in particular.

If AI is, you know, this sci-fi vision that's going to take over the world that seemingly, you know, Bernie Sanders has bought into, and I appreciate his alarmism. And, but, but to a degree, I guess. but when you when you elevate that idea it's also just not really based in fact it doesn't seem to be the real harm here the real harm right now is that it's poisoning our water and using more energy than major cities

that's right yeah I my mom lives in rural Ohio and the first moratorium in the state of Ohio wasn't in liberal Columbus or Cleveland or Cincinnati, it was in a township in the county that she lives in that is very red. And it was about those things. It was about water.

It was about noise. It was about the amount that rate payers for the energy cooperative have to pay. And so there is so much concern around this. And it is across the aisle. But meanwhile, President Trump and his AI action plan basically said we need to support data center development to the extreme. We should unfetter it. There should be, he tried to dictate a AI, an exemption, a preemption of any state legislation

around AI. They've tried to pass that in various legislation. He tried to dictate it from executive order. It hasn't gone anywhere because there's a lot of concern about this. So we really need a robust. Pulse C solution and response that attends to the concerns that people have in the here and now. This stuff is really worrying from an environmental perspective, not just water and electricity, but also air pollution. Also, the construction of semiconductors that's occurring spurred on by the Chips Act

in places like New Albany, Ohio, and in Arizona, where so much of that construction, also can have spillover effects with regards to generating things like PFS, so-called Forever chemicals. There's so much that needs to be attended to, but is this absolutely being ignored by policymakers. This is coming from the grassroots, as you say. There was a Gallup poll that was published this week showing that seven out of ten Americans say they would oppose a data center that's built near them. Fifty-six percent of Democrats strongly oppose, strongly oppose, when you're, you know, ranking your level of opposition. This is a very, I think, important distinction in polling, because you can oppose things in theory, but when you strongly oppose something,

this means this is a really galvanizing, salient political issue. So that's 56% of Democrats, strongly opposed, 39% of Republicans strongly oppose, half of independence strongly opposed per the Scallop poll. And so overall, it's around half of Americans who say they strongly oppose and 70% say they oppose it. This being built near them. So like this is the kind of thing the Democrats should be running on, but it's not just Democrats, as you say, like this is just coming from the communities across the country. In Utah, there's this huge backlash right now. because the shark tank idiot is trying to build some data center that's twice the size of Manhattan

and Utah already has issues with water supply. But then in Georgia, this is a big story as well. I want to play a local news report for you, Alex, and if you could respond to it. This is a local news report, Fox 5 in Georgia, about Georgia power advancing a 35-mile 500-kilogram of Volt transmission line across four different Georgia counties because of surging electricity demand from AI data centers.

New tonight, Coweta County has given the green light for the construction of a massive $17 billion data center. The board of commissioners voted last night to rezone the 800 acres of land despite fierce opposition in the county. Now plans for the data center called Project Sale are full steam ahead, apparently. Tonight, Foxxies, Rob Durienzo, is a lot of. at the live desk with a look at where residents are taking their fight now. Rob?

That's right, Russ. Good evening to you. Well, it was standing room only at this Board of Commissioners meeting in Coweta County over this massive data center. And after hearing from residents Tuesday night, the commissioners voted three to two to approve the rezoning. This is a no-brainer for the county. And I would state my political career on it.

You can run against me. A tense vote Tuesday night in Coweta County, as commissioners advanced plans for the $17 billion data center called Project Sale. Its nine buildings, more than 4 million square feet, would require more power than the output of a nuclear reactor. It's the right site for a data center project. It will bring good jobs and millions of dollars in revenue to the county per year. While the head of the company behind the plan, Prologis says it will boost the local economy, residents organized to campaign against it, fighting at tooth and nails.

It creates an industrial island in a sea of non-industrial land. This proposed development is just 1,200 feet from Arco Sargent Elementary School and only 950 feet from a daycare. Those residents opposed to the project wore red, arguing the jobs it would bring, would only be temporary. Those in favor, like Chad Caldwell, wore blue. He thinks the county could seize on the money coming from Silicon Valley. I know we need more money in this county. I know we need to work on roads. We need to build bridges, when we need school.

and I think we're looking at a great opportunity to generate a tremendous amount of revenue. As these data centers pop up all over the country to supply computing power for artificial intelligence, tech companies have increasingly been turning to Georgia. Within 60 miles of Atlanta, the website Baxter has tracked 26 data centers currently under construction with another 52 planned. This area is already congested and to add additional 4,000 vehicles daily in this area. area is asking for a tragedy. So Georgia is at the center of this.

Alex, if you could just respond to that local news report. And Brian, thanks for sending this to me. That county, Kawata, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing it, it went for Trump 66% in the 2024 election to underscore your point that this grassroots backlash is not, you know, red, blue, independent across the board. but here it appears that at least in Georgia, the politicians are siding with the big money. Yeah, I mean, there's a few reasons for this. And one of the reasons is that developers are putting data centers not where it would make, say, good planning sense or good environmental sense.

They're putting data centers where there is a really good policy environment. So effectively, if they can find places that have tax breaks. or they can approach a city council and say, we're going to put it here, and they can find certain kinds of policymakers who are sympathetic. That's where they're putting these things. And so Georgia's been very attractive. Arizona has been very attractive.

Utah has been very attractive. We saw a fight in Memphis where it was the mayor of Memphis who was really ushering in the deal. and said that they were going to get a new water treatment plant. Meanwhile, in Boxtown, which is a 99% black area of Memphis, is being polluted from the 35 methane generators that they have powering that project. That's called Colossus.

So they are poisoning black neighborhoods. This is a re-instantiation and environmental racism. As Tennessee is disenfranchising Memphis in particular, by carving up that majority. Black District. That's right. Absolutely. The other things that the proponents are saying are just not true. I mean, the things around jobs, the jobs are going to be temporary. The jobs that they bring in, there might be a few hundred construction jobs, but then after they're over, the people who run the data centers, that's going to be pretty minimal. Security, certain maintenance people,

and those people often also come not from the community itself. The thing around revenues, well, you're going into a particular area that might give you something like a sales tax abatement to come in, where, for instance, in Ohio, I had a legislator tell me, Ohio is ranking seventh a new data center construction right now, and is 27th in how much tax receipts that they're actually going to get from those data centers. So Microsoft came in to the county that my mom lives in and said, we'll pay our property taxes, but that's not the issue. They need to pay their sales taxes, and they're not going to because there's a state exemption. And then lastly, it's just like, it's such a false promise.

We need this kind of thing to either, you know, be on the cutting edge of technology. In the case of the Strato's data center, Kevin O'Leary, the Shark Tank guy, was saying, we need this to beat China. And what's that mean? It's a re-hashing of Cold War dynamics. We need to win this race. For who? Who is this serving?

You know, to what end? You're telling us that we should support the data centers that are also going to replace our jobs to win this hypothetical Cold War, you know, number two era. The logic doesn't make sense. We'll wrap up shortly, but we did just get a lot of different people writing in with some positive things to say about the interview, including some people that work in animation. Illuminati kids feeling seen as an animator today. One of the most nightmarish things is all the software companies promote the best thing about their new AI tool enhancements,

is that it gets rid of the process, drawing, et cetera, entirely, which is actually what producers in class. clients want so they can hire less. People. Another person wrote in Draw Nathan, I'm an animator, an illustrator, and Alex Hannah basically described my life right now. AI would be an amazing breakthrough for the arts if artists

all the way down to the assembly line had agency over it. Imagine thriving artists freed to make all the marvelous art they can imagine and execute not competing with AI but partnering with it instead it's a service of profit so it only benefits those further up. The employment hierarchy

they can pay the same money for triple the product and workers gain nothing. So I just think, yeah, the arts are the most acute part that is being discussed here, but you also mentioned the work that's more like data entry and stuff like that. If you'd like, you can respond to the animators, but also I'm curious if you have any other thoughts about which sectors you anticipate that are going to be most impacted as well. Yeah, I mean, my heart goes out to the animators and the artists. I mean, you are really feeling the brunt of it.

I mean, we're seeing this as well in teaching and software development and writing, writing, doing copy editing, translation is being hit very hard. I want to give a shout out to Brian Merchant, who's another journalist. He has a series in his newsletter called Blood in the Machine, and he has a series called AI Killed My Job, and he has a lot of these first person accounts from people. And so it's really unfortunate to see this, and I agree with the last person who wrote. I mean, I'm a technologist.

I'm a sociologist, but I have a degree in computer science. I like technology. I think there's really cool things you can do with computational art. But the way that generative AI works is that it steals from existing artists, and then managers are using it as a means to then not hire people who could do amazing things. And the thing about process is spot on too. If you're an artist or you're doing a concept,

so much of your job is not just the drawing. It's having the conversations with the producer and say, or the director or whomever in the process and say, what do you want? Let's try these different things. What do you think is cool? What can we work on together? And that's definitely not what's happening right now.

I mean, it occurs to me. I'm not trying to be too in my feminist era here, but like, you know, the... No, not always being in a feminist era, please. The, the, just the, this, we are currently being run by a broligarchy of, uh, sociopathic men who do not view human connection as something to be valued, both in their interpersonal relationships and in what business models they support. and the fact that human connection and relation and that chemical process that brings about connection, understanding, and a greater final product of work,

even if that's your only goal, is being completely cast aside for, you know, digits and numbers and the kinds of communication that doesn't, that really is just surface level, fear feels like another byproduct of a fascist era you know that meant a lot of stuff that marginalized people being forced into the background is another example of this but like that the inter the fact that human relation and art is an extension of human relationships is being subsumed by this um does feel both patriarchal capitalistic and fascistic all in one and it makes sense that those all intertwine no absolutely and i There's two things I think about. One, there was a great op-ed written by Astra Taylor and Sam Levine and The Guardian.

And it was about how the fight against data centers is the fight against authoritarianism. And they're tied up. It's a centralization project. It's a project that is trying to deny agency and voice to communities. So, yeah, it's 100% that. And the thing about connection and artistry, Carmen, Maria Machado, the author. We had her on our podcast. And she said this thing that just keeps on saying with me, which is, why would you take away the desire to talk to someone else as a human to connect,

have my ghosts talk to your ghost, to actually think about what it means to be human. And it is really a deeply masculinizing, toxic masculizing project. You're effectively saying, I believe that we can mine humans for their data traces and we can mine the earth from its, you know, for its rare earth elements and everything else to produce this thing that's going to replace you entirely. It's very anti-human. It's very, you know, it's very fantastical at the worst authoritarian kind of way. Well, Alex Hanna, I really loved our discussion today. People should check out Dare, the Distributed AI Research Institute, which you are the director of research of,

and also check out the AICon, how to fight big tech's hype and create the future we want, which Alex wrote along with Emily Bender. Alex, Hannah, thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Emma. Really appreciate it. All right, folks, with that,

we're going to wrap up the free part. of this show and head into the fun half where we will take your calls read your iams we will probably take calls we'll see if the phone machine works you know we never know these days um as a reminder it's your support that makes this show possible go to join the majority report dot com become a member affordability affordability yeah um forgive me guys i am still coming back a little from sickness. So I am seeing that perhaps maybe I was a little bit hard on Shinebound there. Some people

saying that there's speculation, but you know, chalk one up for Matt. The ultra-leftists might not be correct on some of that stuff. Okay. Well, it did pass universal health care last week. They did. I mean, I look, I take Shinebaum as my president any day in the week. I mean, the problem is there's a lot

of shadowy stuff going on with regards to our relationship with Mexico. and they, I mean, that goes back, frankly, years and years. And they would like to undermine Shinebaum however they might. So she's got a tough job, you know, stay. You need to be, I'll be the feminist and be like, stay off Shine Bombs. Matt's more of a feminist than I am, I guess. Big donking me, mansplaining feminism to me.

How to support women? Yes. Thank you. I didn't know this before. So brave. Oh, hey, there's Brandon. It's me. Hey. Matt, before we get to Brandon and the discourse,

Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning and the Jackman show? Oh, yeah, we had a Florida heavy show, not only talking about that commencement speaker from a private equity company, who's talking about how AI is the next industrial revolution and getting boot off the stage and then not having a clue as to what's happening. Oh, that was such a great.

clip at University of Central Florida. Yes. To say what happened in that moment, like, why are they booing me saying this? And then to not be able to ask like chat Chiquetee, like, hey, why are people giving me a negative reaction to say in this hogwash? Let's pull that for the fun half. We played it. Yeah, yeah.

I hate my life. Exactly. That's what happens when you miss work. Sorry, but it should probably clock in from now. I know. We all talk about. Flask down. I was talking about alligator alcatraz costing Florida money and how their economy is collapsing, which you don't hear a lot.

If, you know, whenever blue states lose citizens and have poor growth, it's always just a validation of Republican rule. And when a state like Florida completely collapses, where even Rick Scott is like, guys, the jobs. What's going on with the jobs? and nobody nobody mentions it because I guess you know I guess you can still

vacation down there or something oh and we have Bender but hello Brandon first what's happening on the discourse well you know

I think it's a great time to join the discourse not just because they're going to give cash Patel the top cop in the country

a DUI test the most advanced you've ever seen before but also because I think you know in celebration of what will be the six-week anniversary from our rescue of the pilot on Easter last April. Yeah, yeah, that thing that happened.

Yeah, the Jesus pilot. Yeah, Jesus pilot. The Christ's like pilot. Over the next few days, I think we're going to, or I'm going to be trying to put together like a timeline or some kind of deep dive to see if we can figure out like what happened to this guy. like it just seems so odd that we haven't heard a single thing about him since so definitely check out the discourse of Brandon is it going to be like the bin Laden raid where like three different guys come out and say they were the one who was rescued in the desert like oh yeah yeah probably well I will say I was just watching interview one of those guys and he's now saying that Charlie Kirk was like blown up with a controlled explosive like he's like a Charlie Kirk trooper oh I think he was hit with a hologram, but that's just me. Good to know.

We also still cannot rule out Havana syndrome as well. Okay, all right, check out the discourse. Matt Binder, hello, good to see you wearing a hat today that reminds me of M&M last night at the Detroit Pistons game. Have you noticed that Eminem just wears the same outfit? Like, he's Steve Jobs, the same hat and the same election. All right now for like 15 years. I see Eminem a lot less often than I see the guy pretending to be Eminem and like this is what Eminem would be like if he was like on a camping trip

Yeah oh I haven't seen I haven't seen that but I am reminded of his uniform because of your hat Matt Binder I'll I'll take that over what some people in the YouTube live stream chat are saying where They said my hat reminds them of Erica Kirk So I'll definitely take him in the Kirk maxing you gotta just bulge your eyes out as big as

possible and right oh wow wow he's coming for you Candace what's happening with the leftist mafia and more Binder yeah leftist mafia

tonight 8.30 p.m. Eastern time at YouTube.com slash Matt Binder check it out check it out here's the Eminem campaign thing that I was camping

camping on a camping trip where are the bathrooms because earlier when I had a shit I had to go off. Oh, God. He's doing, he's doing, like, kind of slim, shady voice. Yeah.

Narrated. There's somebody who listened to a lot of Eminem, as a 12-year-old, basically. Yeah. That hits for me. Yeah. All right, guys. See you in the fun house.

Okay, Emma, please. Well, I just, I feel that my voice is sorely lacking in the majority report. Wait. Look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show. It is Thursday. Yeah, I think you need to take over for Sam.

Yes, please, sir, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause you right there. Wait, what? You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. So it's offered a twerk, sushi, and poker with the boys. Twerk, sushi, and bids. I just think that what you did to Tim Poole was mean. Free speech.

That's not what we're about. out here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it because I think you're responsible. I probably am in a certain way, but let's get to the meltdown here. Dwerp. Oh, sushi. I'm sorry, I'm losing my fucking mind. Someone's offered a twerk. Yeah. Sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Twerp. Sushi and pop. A little kid, kid. I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but like, I absolutely think the U.S. should be providing me with a wife and kids. That's not what we're talking about here.

It's not a fun job. That's a real fit. That's a real fit. Willie Walker. That's what that's. Sam has like the way of the world on the shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore. It was so much easier.

One of the majority of report was just you. You were happy. Let's change the subject. Rangers and Nick are doing great. Now, shut up. Don't want people saying reckless things on your program. That's one of the most difficult parts. about this show.

This is a pro-killing podcast. I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet. Left is best. Ultraviolet twir. Don't be foolish. It's a way for policy. We already fund Israel dude.

Incredible theme song. I bumbler. Emma Viglin, absolutely one of my favorite people. Actually, not just in the game, like, period.