The Majority Report with Sam Seder - 3680 - The Left Progressing & the Hollow Center w/ Jeet Heer

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

It's Casual Friday on The Majority Report On today's Program: We are off for a three-day weekend, but Sam pre taped an interview for you. Jeet Heer, national affairs correspondent at The Nation and host of the In Time of Monsters podcast, joins Sam to recap the week's news. Read more from Jeet: https://www.thenation.com/authors/jee... Check out Jeet's podcast: https://www.thenation.com/content/tim... To connect and organize with your local ICE rapid response team visit ICERRT.com The Congress switchboard number is [phone]. You can use this number to connect with either the U.S. Senate or the House of Representatives. Follow us on TikTok here: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the AM Quickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase Check out today's sponsors: SUNSET LAKE CBD: Head on over to SunsetLakeCBD.com and use the coupon code TERP26 to save 25% on the new CBD Oils with Terpenes.  Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech On Instagram: @MrBryanVokey Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on YouTube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.  

Every day is casual Friday. That means Monday is casual Monday. Tuesday, casual Tuesday. Wednesday, casual hump day. Thursday, casual thurs. That's what we call it. And Friday, casual Shabbat. The Majority Report with Sam Seder.

It is Friday. July 3rd. 2006. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five-time award-winning majority report. We are broadcasting live to tape steps on the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America on the program today as we celebrate the federal celebration of July 4th on the third. Because everybody deserves a three-day weekend, ladies and gentlemen. Jeet here, National Affairs correspondent for the Nation magazine, host of the weekly nation podcast, The Time of Monsters. Also on the program today, that's it.

Why? Because this is July 3rd, but we're celebrating July 4th. We're... Everybody's off. And I've pre-taped this. on Thursday. That is the 12 hours before you're seeing it now, probably.

I mean, not exactly 12. I still have 10 fingers at the timing of this recording. Exactly. What's that? I said, I still have 10 fingers at the timing. Oh, that's right. Yeah, Brian's going to go off on fireworks. And so he probably, you will have to have like

some type of prosthetics by the time he comes back to work on Monday. I'll go with a hook. Yeah, there you go. But, yes, we're off. But, uh, Jeet and I recorded this last night. And, uh, here it is, uh, for you coming up in a moment. Um, you know, enjoy, uh, the weekend. Um, I've never been a huge July 4th guy.

I got to be honest with you. Like the fireworks, you know what the fireworks are about. Yeah. They, they're, yeah. They're like literally glorifying war. And it's, uh, the DUI. the number one DUI day. Is that right?

I'm pretty sure that's, at least in my family it was. But there was stiff competition, to be fair. Right? There's also a flag day. There's also Tuesday. A lot of the days that end with day. Right. Big competition.

But that's up in Maine. Like, what else you get to do with that? I know. You're going to run over a moose? The moose will be better off than your car. Exactly. There's not, you know. But I hope you have a good Fourth of July.

I don't know. I mean, we saw the stuff from like America 250. The whole country seems to be... Talk about the Trump malaise. Coincidentally, Jimmy Carter was also... I guess there was an election that year, 76. Yeah, that was probably Ford was still... It was probably still Ford.

So the malaise didn't kick in until later. But there is a Trump malaise. And, you know, also, there's some problems with our country, but you can still celebrate a birthday, you know. So have fun, have barbecue. Stay safe. We will be back live on Monday. I don't know who Emma's got in there. I will be back live probably in and out, like in a week from today, I'm on special assignment.

and you'll hear more about that probably in about a year I'll tell you about it in the meantime before we get to Jeep we talk about this week that was this stuff is pretty amazing have you tried any of this we got a new we got new tinctures

our friends at sunset like oh you did take that oh the focus how was that focus the focus one was good I took that during the show but I took the sleep one that was phenomenal that was phenomenal full night's sleep. Yes. I did too, actually.

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sativa i can't remember what the rhyme is but indica is in the couch indicaa that's the way i remember that so i'm more of like a setiva style yeah um turpenes guy uh the relaxed sabade oil with turpines blend seba day oil with hybrid turpines to promote a sense of calm and ease. Great for any time of the day without feeling weighed down. And this is, this is why the sleep one works. The sleep sabade oil with turpines is sabadee with indica turpenes to support a restful night's sleep without using melatonin or other sedatives. It worked. It does work. And melatonin gives me the craziest nightmares. I get exactly. Yes. That's exactly what happens

to me. The dreams I get are just completely out of control and I can't, it's too much. I wake up stressed. It's too much. I have a new, and this is what I'm doing now, is I still use the good night oil, but for

the most part, I'm using the good night gummies. And now I'm going to rotate in this sleep oil and then I'm done. That one's like sugar-free. I haven't had to take Ambien in weeks. I'm not going to lie.

I'm not saying this because we're doing Adderick. You've had more energy this week. Right? You have. Right. You've been more vital. Yes. Folks, no guarantee that you're going to get more vital.

But head on over to sunset lake sabadeh.com. Use the coupon code terp 26 to save 25% on the sabade oils and with turpines. The sale ends July 7th, midnight eastern time. See their site for additional terms in one. restrictions honestly this stuff uh i haven't tried the focus yet and i haven't tried to relax but the sleep man forget about it i'm golden uh quick break when we come back i'll be talking to jeet hears uh jeet here rather national affairs correspondent for the nation host of the weekly podcast uh nation time of monsters uh and we'll be talking about uh i have a feeling uh one of jit's pieces on

the democratic establishment. It's an interesting time right now, particularly for someone who is as old as I am. Be right back. We are back, Sam Cedar, on The Majority Report. It is a pleasure to welcome back to the program.

The host of Time of Monsters, or co-host, I should say, and National Correspondent for the Nation magazine, Gee, here is here. Are you, wait, are you the co-host? host or the host? I'm the host. I mean, I have like rotating gas, but okay. Well, so the host, the host. We are, of course, pre-taping the day before the day before the official celebration,

or I should say the extra day off we get because of the fourth, because it falls on Saturday. I want to talk about the fourth. We'll get there in a little bit. And maybe we can even talk about the really, I will ask you if you got down to the 250th celebration, the National State Fair on the Washington Mall. I'm going to guess you didn't. I did. I did not. No, no. I'm looking forward to President Trump delivering a long MAGA speech and a 107 degree weather. Yes, that should be rather it. You're going to have a lot of air conditioning there. But all right, before we get to the fourth, let's talk about, obviously, the big news, really, it's been the past two weeks, and it has been big news, certainly like in our worlds. I don't

know how much this is leaking out to non sort of like political people, but we're talking about primaries and we're talking about the response of the establishment uh democrats the democrats have really basically controlled the party um to both the new york primary results um last week where you had uh three dsa members uh get elected to um or i should say two dsa members but arguably three democratic socialists are elected to um the uh house or i believe you call it fellow travelers yeah exactly and and uh and we should say there's been three incumbents and we had one in uh in denver on tuesday three sitting democratic incumbents who have been uh dislodged and ones who you know de get was sort of like a backbencher of some sorts despite the fact that you'd been there

for uh it really forever like three years right but um You had two people who were extremely well-financed, Dan Goldman had a ton, and Sviot, who was the chair of the Hispanic caucus. There are other races and ones that we should talk about, but you wrote a piece about the reaction of the establishment. And it really has been fascinating. And there's also like a quality of Keystone cops to it. But do tell. Well, I mean, there's that, yeah, DSA

is doing very well. Candidates endorsed by MAMDANI are doing very well. Just generally, insurgents are doing well. I mean, I think we're seeing like a much higher than normal level of incumbents losing. And the sort of people who

don't like this are the sort of establishment wing of the party. And they are like freaking out. And I think the freaking out itself I mean, we'll maybe come back to, like, what is actually happening, what the voters are saying, because I think that's the really significant part. But I think that there is a very amusing and noteworthy thing, which is that now people who, like, are senior, like, you know, ran the DNC where, like, advisors to presidents, presidential candidates are now talking, like, the Green Party.

like they're saying like you know we need a split we need a schism this is James Carbell you know who was like admittedly not been involved with you know actual politics for all but was like you know very close to the Clintons

in the 1990s and also to the Hillary Clinton campaigns and he like actually said like we you know like we need the DSA people to leave the party and I think it's very interesting because on previous occasions

when it was the left I was talking about leaving the party or creating third parties. Carville took a very different line. He basically blamed Ralph Nader for the loss in 2000. As, you know, like talked about Cornell West as a threat to the Constitution by running again. And so it's a fascinating reversal. I believe Harrison, you know, had been headed in the state. D.N.

Jamie Harrison. Yeah. Jamie Harrison, yeah. You know, like, did a long tweet. You know, that DSA people need to leave us alone. Like, start your own party. And like, it is such a contrast between what we normally hear, like, before election, which is Democrats have to be a big ten party.

Vote blue no matter who. If you don't like the candidate, you know, like, hold your nose, you know, like, do the right thing. And add a couple with that, I mean, like, I think, interestingly, like, you know, increasing, like, sort of like attacks on people who have won primaries, right? Like, like, like, like, like, like, if you look at someone like New York Town, then who, you know, runs the Center for American Progress, had been advisor to Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, like, she's, like, constantly kind of like running down Platner and suggesting his weaknesses, which is, like, normally, like, not what an establishment Democrat does. for like a crucial kind of seat. You know, so it is fascinating that, you know, like after 30 years of accusing anyone that, on the left of being spoilers, as often unfairly, I would add, this cohort, like they are using the like total tactics of schismatic spoilers.

Yeah, it's fascinating. They're literally saying, go become spoilers. And I guess the idea is, I mean, there's so much to this that I find really fascinating. And of course, yes, this is sort of like the second order part of it. But it also is like very indicative of where their analysis without offering their analysis. But I would also include into, you mentioned near a tendon in terms of planner, Janet Mills is out there doing ribbon cuttings with Susan Collins. and has not even called platinum back i mean it's not like platter hasn't tried hasn't called

plightner back they um they what what what one part of it reminds me of is pumma do you remember puma yes in the wake of and after i think some puma people might not to be involved with the current stuff i i would imagine and just to remind people when barraq obama won the primary in 2008 um Hillary Clinton's people were very, very, very angry. And they perceived him as an upstart. It wasn't his turn. And you started, I mean, I remember this vividly because I was getting so many emails, you know, at Air America. People just intensely angry, a, saying he's not going to win, which it turned out he was not the case.

He actually did win. I became the only Democrat to twice win the popular vote since FDR. Indeed. And so he not only won, he also, I mean, it didn't necessarily read out to other people. You know, that's another problem with Obama. But Puma meant party unity my ass. And they were identifying. And we know in terms of actual just sheer numbers, more.

Hillary Clinton supporters supported John McCain in the general election, then Bernie Sanders supporters supported Donald Trump in the 2016 election. And what's like, I'll give you another example, which is like very similar to the Puma thing. I mean, when Bernie Sanders ran in 2016 and 2020, to be the biggest threat was always, you know, not that Bernie would lose if he got the nomination, but the explicit threat that the center springing of the party had, which is that if Bernie gets a nomination, we will run Michael Bloomberg. Michael Bloomberg.

Who has a billion, a billion can run his own self-finance campaign, and we will, like, you know, ensure that our Republican would win rather than Bernie Sanders. So, so, I mean, there is a consistent pattern of this group, which is, you know, like this,

like either they control the party or no one does. Like, it's like a sad's slogan in Syria, you know, like, either I rule or I destroy the country. Either they rule or they will destroy the party. Now, I mean, the sort of analytical aspect of this, I think it's a writer named John Schwartz who sort of coined the term. It's the iron law of institutions, which is that when you have certain institutions, the people who run them would rather, like, lose overall power but still control the institutions than where. by seeding power to another group, by sharing power or even becoming junior partners. And I think that that is exactly what is going on there. You know, I mean, in our column, I sort of compare this to the devil or Satan as portrayed in Paradise Lost,

where the devil has the slogan, it is better to reign in hell and to serve in heaven. Well, for people like James Carville and Nera Tandon, it is better to reign over a losing party, because if they purge the left, they will lose, right? And they know this. It's better to reign over a losing party than to be servants in a winning party. I mean, this is what's fascinating because there's so many different lenses in which you can look at this. Ideological lenses. And then, just as you say, the Iron Law of Institution, I thought it was actually Kevin

drum, but you may be right at Jonathan Schwarz. But nevertheless, that is completely generic, a dynamic that's completely generic, or I should say secular relative to politics, maybe with a company, maybe with a team of any sorts. What could I even imagine? I mean, I think there were people on the Republican Party who might have preferred to lose with Ronda Santos or Jeff Bush than to win with Trump because they would then still control. the Republican Party, right? Yes.

And I always describe that as really what you have is just two players in the same industry. Yeah. You know, Coke and Pepsi, just fighting it out. There's, you know, the, and in this instance, we definitely have two players within the same industry, right, within the Democratic Party, but they are very, very different ideologically. and also in terms of power. I mean, what's, what's, so let's break down just a little bit about like, try and analyze a little bit what, what the electorate is saying because I think.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I do think that that, I mean, like, I think the James Carville stuff is funny and, and they could be quite dangerous. Like, I actually do think, like, as with General, these people do actually have the power to sabotage elections. They certainly have a lot of access to the media. And I do think that we have to see them now as like open and explicit saboteers.

I would agree. I agree. And what I also, you mentioned the media. When you watch cable television, none of what the three major examples we brought up, like Puma and the idea that Bloomberg would have been, you know, would have been drafted to run against Bernie Sanders by many of the Clinton supporters. You could even go to like, you know, Joe Lieberman, but there, this is, and then all of these things are not seen in the context of being sabotage. The role that he played, like Como, you know, lost the primary and then ran, he tried to do what Bloomberg wanted to do. So there's a clear pattern. They, if they don't control the party, they will try to sabotage the actual Democratic winner of the primary, the actual Democratic nominee.

And I think there's one more element of it, but let's revisit it after we talk. about what the voters are saying because it is both the petulance the Pumaing is indicative of how hollow there to the extent that they have an ideology whether they call it moderate or centrist whatever it is corporatist conservative how hollow it is because the response is also indicative of both, their response is both indicative of what is happening with the voters, but also indicative of how bankrupt they are in terms of offering a different vision to voters, even though they have made the assessment that the voters want something very different. And so let's talk about that. There's two, it seems to me that there's at least two or three different dynamics that are

happening within the Democratic Party. There is clearly a, an anger at the leadership of the Democratic Party. I mean, the brand is in the toilet. You see Democratic approval ratings really in the 30s. That means that Democrats have a problem with Democrats, not so much that Republicans do because they always do. There is a real sort of anger towards the leadership. Yeah, no, that's a very new development. I'll credit Josh Cohen, who I think has been on your show and who writes for the nation occasionally. But he basically noticed the fundamental fact is that for the first time in nearly 50 years since the Carter presidency, you've had the Democrats had a president that was not popular

with his own party. You know, like when Bill Clinton left, you know, people didn't like the Monica Lewinsky thing, but he's a broadly popular president. Certainly Barack Obama when he left was, you know, the most popular living American. with Joe Biden, you look at polls. Like people, you know, like, it's hilarious to look at. Like, he has, like, the lowest poll rating of, like, any former president. Like, you can, I think there are people who are the best president.

And, like, Obama won overwhelmingly, you know, got twice as many as, like, Trump or Reagan. But then, like, way at the bottom with 2% of people that he was the president is, like, Joe Biden. So, so, so the representative figure of the establishment right now is Joe Biden. Biden who had a failed presidency. I think that that is a huge factor. I think that people also are rightly angry because they have

seen, they have supported like the establishment Democrats and what have they gotten? The Democrats have won the presidency seven out of the nine presidential elections, a popular vote. They have won. But you get a Supreme Court that is 6'3 on the

Republican side that is like overturning, you know, Roe v. Wade is overturning civil rights. So people like on the Democratic side are seeing like, you know, we've been the good soldiers. They actually have come up, Democratic Party voters have come out and voted. And like, you know, the actual popular vote, for the better part, you know, like, of this century, the Democrats have done well, but they have not been rewarded. And I think that also is sort of fueling a lot of this anger, along with like everything associated with the Biden presidency. The fact that he seemed to be.

have indicated he's going to be one term, you know, in ambiguous ways. And then, you know, like, round again, despite what the voters wanted. And also, you know, was doing a lot of stuff with, I mean, the other elephant in the room is Gaza, right?

Like, taking a policy that was like, wildly unpopular. So, yes, the Democratic Party base is very angry. People, like, often analogize that to, this is the Tea Party moment. But as against the Tea Party, which had, you know, had a grassroots base, but was also like strongly directed by the Koch brothers and by like you know the flunocrats this is an actual

grassroots like the anger and like the money side of it like in all these campaigns like the establishment democrat had like by far the greatest amount of money and often at the tail end of these races like you get a lot of super pack money apac especially that goes in but because you know like apac you might as well be taking money from nambla Right. Right. Like, so, you know, like, yes, I, I'm running a campaign that is enormously well funded by APEC and Ambla, but for some reason, the voters don't want it. Let's go through those, at least those two big ones, and that being the resent of Biden.

And I think a perception that that is representative of the establishment. There's a couple of things about Biden. Obviously, his age. And, I mean, we saw Diane Feinstein, right? I mean, this is not, we've had a couple of examples of this. And so it's been brewing. Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for that matter.

And Breyer tried to stretch it out, too, despite the fact having, like, prostate cancer or whatnot. But this is the tangential. But I want to start a notorious RBG thing, but for Sam Alito. like don't you be telling sam alito he should resign this is this man is as strong as he's ever been uh he should like the country needs him the country needs him the victorious um essay that's what i call him like let's let's keep him on there i don't think that's going to be the case i think he's you know obviously uh npr um accidentally reported it um i wonder how that happened but we should start this like sam the man he he is like like you know one of the greatest judges that we've ever had

who can replace them. It's ages to say that Sam Alito should resign. I think, frankly, his wife wants him to resign, so I don't think that type of popular appeal will work, but I'm game for it. But back to that notion of the age thing. It was the age thing also combined with a total sort of gaslighting, associated with the age, whether it was Feinstein or whether it was Biden,

people were saying, you're too old to be doing this. And there are literally staffers around them propping them up to run. So there's that level of resentment. I mean, the irony is that, like, if you also take out that, if Biden decides not to run again, and had Biden actually done, I mean, he did a lot when it came to the, the genocide in Gaza, but all on the wrong side of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, he was very active, I think. Without those two factors, I think he could have been one of the more popular presidents. Of course, he also, the other big problem he had was that all of the benefits in the American Rescue Act, which were supposed to be sort of made permanent by Build Back better, all started. to go away during his presidency. And so people, you know, it's always in anything. What's the way? I think there was like other benefits that were like sort of clocked in to take over like

after by that, you know, when like Trump took over, you know, like. Yeah, there was no, the problem is, is that he, those benefits went away during his presidency. And so he gets the credit for them going away, not for providing them in the First place. We're doing it. Yeah. No, I, I mean, this is this sort of unstated story that I don't think, like, you never get because the mainstream media doesn't want to talk about it.

But one reason why I think Trump did well in 2024 and did especially well with, like, untraditional Republicans, like sort of working class people of color is that, you know, like under COVID, that's he had, you know, one of the greatest, like, welfare programs in American history with the sort of like the sort of COVID checks. and like Biden didn't even keep the promise to like you know keep those up like I and so Trump got both of the people's memory of the 2019 economy and then COVID happens and you know like the general sense was well this is beyond anyone's control but we did get these those like you know a lot of working class Americans a lot of their financial position actually improved in 2020 automatically we cut child poverty in half and then we decided that was an interesting experiment but we'll go back to increasing child poverty yeah i don't know i'd um uh yeah i know i mean so so unfortunately like this actually gained the whole way everything rolled out gave trump a lot of credit um uh with working class people was like you know like this guy actually like did something and that that that biden was the guy who's like taking stuff away uh no no no i I mean, it was a, but, but I mean, the overall picture is of a party that is sort of discredited. And as you mentioned, like, you had all these people who should have resigned in addition to Biden

who were kept around because of the staffers. And the staffers, you know, could hold on to their stuff. And I really think, like you said, you know, what's the ideology and what is the thinking here? And we have to pay tribute to one of the greatest living Americans who, like, celebrated his 100th birthday and who's, like, one of your colleagues, which is Mel Brooks. in Blazing Saddle, you know, where the people who work for the governor said, you know, like, we have to preserve,

or Bell Brooks, playing the governor of the state, says, you know, gentlemen, we have to protect our phony baloney jobs. Harumph, hurrof. That is the ideology here, right? Like, that is what James Carville and Neurotamden believe in their heart of hearts. We have to protect our phony baloney jobs.

And what I find interesting is that the insurgents that we're seeing, for lack of a better term, is very much driven in some areas by a DSA, by self-proclaimed social Democrats. In other areas, not so much, but you raise a really good point about the Tea Party comparison. And I think this gets lost in a lot of the analysis of what's going on. and and Emma made this point in regards to to Julius Sanchez who you know came within striking difference distance of Hickenlooper she was former DSA but she gets lumped in and the

the difference here is and that we also had in in Colorado Bennett who was not the incumbent but he was he he was a senator sitting senator running to governor and he very like junior establishment figure yeah one would imagine that he would have had a a machine that would have gotten him in or or some uh goodwill that would have gotten him in apparently not but the interesting dynamic here is is that the what people forget about the tea party like you say it started as a maybe grassroots but really i mean not exactly it was incredibly it was enormously helped by the huge well the tea party the first tea party was actually uh ron paul's people yeah and when he died out the coke brothers who are big funders of of ron paul um

they expanded it and so there was definitely you know anger uh without a doubt but people forget the coke brothers at that time had bought essentially the entire voter list they had a more sophisticated voter data analysis program than the Republican National Committee did. And so you saw the success of these Tea Party people because they're going up against the establishment figures, but they have an arsenal that rivals who they're going up against. On the Democratic side, it's much more difficult because there is no outside Koch brothers who are providing that infrastructure except for the DSA who come with an infrastructure. So Julian Sanchez loses by just a handful, but she did not have.

You know, people think like, the endorsement is just like, you know, an imprimatur. No, the endorsement comes with an entire sort of like, you know, we're going to give you people on the streets. We're going to give you organizations. We're going to give you phone trees. We're going to give you, you know, media. I mean, it comes with a huge toolkit. And that's what's been the difference in those races. I don't know if it's ideological.

I'm curious as to your perspective on that. But it's also a function of you've got a real operation here. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, I think the way to think about this is in terms of the sort of hollowing out of the parties. that the American parties are these kind of like big brands, but they can be, you can leverage a takeover of them. And it was what Trump did with the Republican Party.

He basically, you know, like took this hollow dot party, but discredited by the Bush administration, and with losing campaigns and then, you know, use his celebrity to take it over. And DSA is doing something similar, except that their leverage is not celebrity or Trump's type of money, but they're organizing things. And there's been a sort of general hollowing out of organizing.

And, like, I think partially because both political parties depend on on consultants, and then you, like, you know, you use the money that you have to hire people to do things. And in pretty good New York City, there's sort of old machines. I mean, people talk about political machines. But, like, the old machines of, like, you know, that existed back to Tammany Hall into the 70s and 80s, those were like an entire life world.

Like, you would have, like, you know, clubs that you would go to. And if you needed a job, people there could help you and you had dances. People met their life partner there, right? They had social events. This is an entire social world. But starting with the

sort of, you know, like rise of social media, all that social world has kind of disappeared. And a lot of the other institutions that function with the machines, like sort of like the black churches. Well, what you've seen is, like among younger black people, like especially among young men,

they're much unchurched. So those are like become more like, um, uh, uh, freelance voters. And some of those went over to Trump, uh, but could also go over to Mamdani. Um, what the DSA has is that they have actually built the only real machine that we've seen in the 21st century. And, you know, like where like people who are in that DSA world, like, like, you know, they, they hold events. They hold lectures.

You have dances. You have, this is like, like, like, where you get, um, and, you know, like, They are actually people that can go out and talk to voters, and you have, like, you know, not people who are, like, paid $25 an hour to spread the message, but people actually, like, believe in this. And, like, that is invaluable, right? And so the hollowing out of the parties has made them susceptible to takeover. And in the case of the Democrats, I mean, I think that the establishment Democrats

have a big problem in the sense that, like, they don't know how to organize. They know how to, like, Biden ads. they know how to like, and in the presidential elections, they can actually get volunteers for phone banks because people hate Trump and so don't want the Republicans. But still, they don't have like that sort of like actual functioning political machine. Yeah, it's fascinating. And it, I mean, the proof is in the pudding. You know, the leadership of the DSA has been very strategic and where they're going to deploy these resources. I mean, this is the this is the other thing, too, that I think is really fundamentally different.

Johnny has, you know, who I think you could argue is effectively the most sort of like influential figure in the DSA at this point. Maybe that's not. I don't even know if that's remotely even controversial. But was able to sort of structure where the challenges were going to happen, where they were not going to happen. And, you know, specifically no challenge of Hakeem Jeffrey. there was a real sort of like match between our resources, you know, and our appetite,

which I think like that type of discipline and, you know, sobriety, I guess, is it's going to be hard to maintain on some level because there is a, obviously people are very, very impatient. But that level of strategy, we haven't seen from any type of movement within the Democratic Party or outside the Democratic Party, where you have that type of energy, but you're also able to sort of like deploy it with deliberately. Yeah. No, I mean, the historical analogies would be the period where that organizational energy came from things like the Black churches, which, as I indicated, have been fraying a bit, and also the unions, which have

also tremendously framed. But like back in the day, like, you know, America got the New Deal and the great society because, you know, you had that sort of organizational discipline from the black churches and from the labor unions and for, you know, similar groups. The DSA is the 21st century equivalent of that. And Mam Dany, because he is, you know, one being the mayor of New York, and is now more popular than ever, you know, has had a really good, like, you know, first year. You know, he is undeniably that. And it's become more than that because, like, I don't know who the Democrats have

as a sort of national spokesman other than people on the left, other than, you know, like Bernie and AOC. I mean, I will admit that all stuff, very popular in Buttigieg, very good. But in general, like, if you actually look at, like, who are the people that the public looks to as the alternative to Trump, as the people, you know, who are the trusted figures, is very striking that three of those figures are, like, you know, very much on the left. Well, one of the things that's also come out from this sort of like temper tantrum by the so-called centrist or moderates or whatever they're calling themselves is that they,

There is nothing there. Like they came out with their manifesto, and it was literally like just platitudes. It was fascinating. Like, here's your big, here's your big moment. Roll out those things that you've been talking about, and there's nothing there. And who they're rolling it out for is also sort of that.

I mean, so much of what we're seeing, like I'm convinced now, we should say AOC endorsed Abdul al-Said today in Michigan when I look at Mallory McMorrow now when she's still going out there and campaigning it is quite obvious to me that she's not campaigning to win anymore

she's campaigning for her donors to get enough money to pay off her campaign debt like I'm going to go out there and I'm going to be the person who's going to say you know worried about anti-Semitism or you know the, you know, the socialists, et cetera, et cetera.

There's no one out there delivering a message. Like, what was Janet Mills' message? Yeah, no, no. I mean, again, there is no base of support for this stuff. And I mean, on the Israel stuff in particular, I mean, that is a sort of significant change. Like, you go back to the 60s and 70s,

there was like a large mass of people like Jewish Americans. We were, for Israel, like out of concern for the Holocaust, out of what happened in the 67 with the war, and there were a lot of Christian Zionists, who are still around, but also diminishing.

But that's very different than today, where there's a poll from CNN that 52% of Jews in New York think Israel has committed a genocide. So, you know, basically, like the... And, you know, like these elections, like, you know, Lander won

in one of the most Jewish districts in the United States. So, so, so, you don't have like this sort of like a mass base of support for Zionism other than like you know and it's fascinating you like Jake Tapper's having on Dan Goldman I mean just in and of itself was such a weird thing like Dan Goldman was you know a backbencher didn't do anything that particularly distinguished himself I mean even as a prosecutor even you know I don't remember like any standout moments from his hearings or anything really to that effect I mean obviously But in any other scenario, Dan Goldman would not be interviewed after you lose the primary.

Who cares? No one cares. And the idea that they're still giving this guy a platform, he had a platform. He was a U.S. congressman. If some of these candidates are like trying to appeal to the donor class, Jake Tapper is trying to appeal to, you know, who's going to be his future boss? Well, that's fair. And you just wrote a great piece on Ellis and in the Nation magazine.

and people should check that out. But let's turn to July 4th and sort of like as and I genuinely believe that like, you know, I don't know how you would break it down and in some places less or more as to how much the the DSA, how much like socialism as an idea is on the ballot as much as the things that emanate from socialism, the organizing. the sense that people are going to take care of each other. You know, I don't know if there's specific topics outside of Israel, but that is, that is, again, not necessarily a socialist position. That is now become a, I don't even want to say a litmus test.

It really just become, I think, I think Abdul El-Sahid said it's become a Rochechak test, where you basically, you know, how do we indicate whether this person has a sane perspective on the world. Yeah, yeah. Can you recognize up is down and down is up? But July 4th, Mamdani is apparently going to be the guy for the Democratic Party

who is going to provide another way of celebrating, I guess, another vision of what America is that it's 250th birthday. He's going to deliver a speech just before Trump does from George Washington's old desk which is in i think it's new york city hall but also this week we should say just not maybe not coincidentally comma harris is it came out that she's been in extensive meetings with him

uh the uncommitted uh folks like obviously on a reformation tour like what can i do uh what do you make of that well master of timing camela harris once again you know this might have helped September of 2024 when people like you and I were urging she'd do it. But it is an indication that, yeah, she can read the polls, she can read these election results, you know. She knows that she's going to have

a future, but I don't think she's going to be able to do it, but, you know, she's making the effort. But no, Ma'am Downey has become this political force nationally. I mean, it is very striking. Like, I, you know, like we at the nation had a 250th issue, and it's a very troubling thing to have Donald Trump

as the president when you're celebrating the birth of the country, like, however ambiguously one might feel about the American experiment, still, what would like to have something to be proud of? And there's much to be proud of in the United States. I mean, you know, like, you guys gave the world the brawn and American scores easy. Like, you know, that's, you know. Thank you. So I say, you know, like, but there's that room.

But you still, it's very important to have this sort of like some sort of patriotic message, both about what things have, things have gone wrong, but like how you want. want a better country. The pessimism about the country is an all-time high. And like, none of the Democrats can speak to that. I mean, what would have thought? I mean, it's interesting that Obama's sort of silence on this, this moment. And like he's producing a series with Larry David.

Like, you know, like, that's how, you know, like Obama, whatever you want to feel about him, hugely important historical figure, can articulate, you know, much of what's best about the United States. Like, it's curious that, like, all these mainstream Democrats have gone silent. and have created a vacuum for Memdami.

Yeah, you know, it is fascinating that the value of having someone who is a huge historical figure alive is that they can step in and do stuff. Now, who knows what he's doing behind the scenes in between his wheeling and dealing in Hollywood, but it is pretty striking that he is offering really nothing. thing. Now, maybe his maybe he's like creating a travesty. Like he's going to like half a maga march on the, you know, July 4th. That is a travesty that no other president would have ever done.

He's turned the White House into a laughing stock. He's like, you know, turning Washington DC into this like gaudy Bordello. This would be the time where you kind of built attendance because everyone knows, you know, Epstein Island. Right, right. So, but at least Obama is there. You know, like whatever you. want to say this guy knows how to deliver a speech he knows how to deal that's the thing too it's like i i

wouldn't want his politics to return yeah but his rhetoric like you would imagine he he would deploy it now maybe there's some theory like it'll get trump mad or it'll awake the the conservative movement which again i think it's just absolutely silly uh but there's a hunger for that i mean that's why man downy is popular like he's offering a positive vision of what america could be You know, he has become the Obama figure. Like, it's such a hugely positive thing to have, like, a Muslim American mayor as, you know, leading the largest city. This represents the best of America. And the Democrats, you know, like, it is, for whatever reason, Obama's silence.

I think he has chosen it because he does actually think it's his job to, like, step back and let the new generation rise. I think that's the most generous and terrible. Yes. But, you know, like his voice is really missing at this moment. What do you think we're going to see going forward in terms of these? I think it's quite likely we're going to see another maybe close to half dozen, maybe a little bit less. incumbents lose their seats to either DSA or progressive candidates, it's really just going to come down to like the ground game. That's what it really feels like.

These incumbents do not have volunteers. They just don't. Yeah, yeah. No, no. They don't. And whatever like machine politics that once existed, you know, for the reason I indicated, no longer exists. And, you know, like, I mean, the other side effect is, like, victory builds on victory, right?

Like, you know, the fact that the DSA has won these victories, now they're, like, growing larger than ever. If you could have, you know, DSA of the strength that's in New York in other parts of the country, it would become a real powerhouse within the party. Without a doubt. Jeet here, always a pleasure. Have a great fourth. Yes. And we will see you again soon.

Yeah, as a Canadian, I want to congratulate all the Americans on their anniversary. For Canada, that's very important for the United States to have sane leadership. Our survival depends on this. So, guys, try to work a little harder. We're working. I appreciate it. Thanks, Jeet. Okay.

Thank you.