The Marketing Bestie Podcast with zoeunlimited - Asking Poshmark Founder & CEO his Branding Secrets (Ep2)

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

How Manish Chandra (Founder & CEO of Poshmark) went from tech geek to fashion royalty💡FREE 7-day branding course + (🎁)challenge: Early Bonus Access👉🏻 ⁠https://tapx.it/unlimitedyou-early⁠5 years of social media and marketing knowledge Thank you Stan (as seen on Diary of the CEO) for funding production✨Manish's socialsLinkedIn ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/manishchandra1/⁠Instagram ⁠https://www.instagram.com/marrc/⁠Poshmark ⁠https://www.instagram.com/poshmark/⁠✍🏻FREE EMAIL LIST ⁠https://tapx.it/stanzoeunlimited⁠Learn & Grow with me.💖 Instagram: https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedig💜 TikTok: https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedtiktok🖤 Listen on Apple & Spotify: https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedapple https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedspotify🪭 All my outfits https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedltk👩🏻‍💻 LinkedIn https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedlinkedin🛒 Amazon Essentials https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimited👉use code ZOEUNLIMITED for 10% off ALL travels on Klook https://t.ly/aA76T📸My gear: (Sony A7Siii) [ZOEUNLIMITED15] https://tapx.it/lensrental 📧 Business inquiries: [e-mail] //🕙Timestamps: 0:00 Intro//👗LOOKBOOK Revolve outfits: https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedrevolveAll my outfits https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedltkCream White Wide-Leg Dress Pants (M) https://tapthe.link/Pgvysbk5oVitaly gold collar https://sovrn.co/7wtgp38Athena ring https://bit.ly/3G54y1y👉use code ZOEUNLIMITED10 for 10% off on YesStyle//😋Fav proteins-BEST chocolate protein https://tapthe.link/huelzoeunlimitedget $15 off your entire order ZOEUNLIMITED- chocolate collagen protein: [code ZOEUNLIMITED20] https://tapthe.link/T-LEclSOa- tastiest bars https://bit.ly/3OpQoN8- 😋try my fav mango chili lollipop and horchata electrolyte https://tapx.it/tastesaludzoe10 🥭🩵 get 10% off with ZOE10 //💪🏻MY WORKOUTS11 abs routine https://youtu.be/D-8kLwf8xjcSlim legs routine https://youtu.be/Dd3Nbh7OXUUKpop idol arms routine https://youtu.be/6QlEAzstdI4//💦FITNESS -Resistance band: https://amzn.to/3w2k3o3-Current yoga mat: https://amzn.to/3CICqjf//✨Fav skincareFav skincare: https://amzn.to/40ciLWzToner https://shrsl.com/3st55Water sleeping mask https://shrsl.com/3st5jLip mask https://shrsl.com/3st5kDr Jart Vitamin mask https://shrsl.com/420l8Dr Jart hydration mask https://shrsl.com/4fl7n//📸 Camera: https://tapthe.link/wp8Yr0GlC//📕MY CPA EBOOK https://tapthe.link/zoeunlimitedcpabook//📚RECOMMENDED BOOKS1) This Is Marketing https://amzn.to/3ArHk7N2) Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable https://amzn.to/3CnlF133) Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://amzn.to/359KZUk4)The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business: https://amzn.to/2BUJwGC5) The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck https://amzn.to/2VtNqQm//🎵 MUSIC Get FREE royalty-free music https://tapx.it/thematiczoeunlimitedIOSUB - Dreams - https://thmatc.co/?l=F1D5E3FESub count at upload:

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Open your PC optimum app to get your coupon. I'm sure it's a place at the age you guys are in, you struggle a lot. Oh, yes. These four books that I recommend. Selfishly, I really wanted to ask you if you have any relationship advice that you will give to your children. I think obviously you need to like the person, but I think a lot of relationships. growth and longevity comes from adaptability and adjustment, you know, which is true for business relationships as well, like in my company, so many of the people I've partnered with have been

with me for 10, 15, sometimes 20 years. And a lot of it is adjusting to each other's energy and having empathy and understanding and some level of forgiveness because we all screw up around from time to time. You know what? That is so valid. What is something that you will see as like, quote don't quote, oh, I messed up this time that you really owned up to. You know, there are times where you're neglecting the kids because you're so busy with business. You know, you can all get mad at each other, raise voices and stuff like that. So I think there are different things that happen around the process. The great relationships are where you don't even have to ask for forgiveness.

There's a level of understanding that this two shall pass and we're going to make past this process. Because you have to ask for forgiveness. I'm not saying forgiveness is not a good thing. But, you know, if you're constantly asking for forgiveness, then that's not a very good That's true. How old were you when you got married? I was about 24 years old. Okay. Yeah, and my wife had just turned 25.

Oh, that is pretty young, considering this age, I don't know what's happening with the age of Gen Z and millennials. Seems like no one's really getting married. Some are, which is why I attended my first wedding since I was three. I'm like, please, more people get married. For me, I think when a relationship has a lot of transaction in it, it's hard to know that there's love, but when the relationship starts from a not a place of transaction, then there's more chances of it being there. And that means that if you start in a place where, if I think about

some of the best friendships I have, they were created at a time when we were all just lost in the woods and together, right? And then there are obviously great friendships I've bade later in life. There's transactionality in everything we do, but how can you transcend beyond that to have a genuine connection and love? And it's always the hardest thing. It's, I'm sure it's a place at the age you guys are in, you struggle a lot. Oh, yes, always. Did you ever struggle or was it like? Oh, of course. These principles didn't get crafted in vacuum. They came through a lot of, a lot of pieces of journey. And even the words, you know, it's taken time. You know, for example, if you are only focused on saying, okay, you got to meet your sales quota, you got to get there,

you got to get there, then it's hard to form that because you're always thinking leading with money and just focusing on it. But if you take that thing and say, I want to create a business. And I want to grow in my career, but I start with the question, who do you want to serve? Right. Your podcast is serving a community that you have a mindset for, right? You want to serve them. You want to help them in a genuine, authentic way. And through that, you're going to grow.

So, asking who do you want to serve is more important than how do I make money. So true. Now, once you start by people you're serving, if you serve them authentically, make sure that that service is also going to deliver money to you that you have to think through up front, right? Because certain service does, certain service doesn't. Sure. And that second thing is the intuition or the knowledge you have. Then when you serve, the money comes, right?

And so that whole mindset in this sort of positive way is how we build Pashmark in our community. A community designed to serve, our sellers serve their shoppers. Right. When they serve their shoppers, they help other sellers. In that help with other sellers and shoppers, they create a community. That community then delivers transactions, which then delivers them revenue. as they get revenue, we make money. So we get revenue.

So it's a win, win, win, win situation. The shopper gets the product they want. The seller gets to sell something, and we make a little bit of money. So as a marketplace, a fashion resale marketplace, everyone is winning in every transactions. And that's how sort of it's flowing. However, if you just get focused on the fact that I have to sell, sell, sell, and you don't focus on customer service, you don't focus on curation, you don't focus on sharing, you don't focus on the investments it's needed,

and you don't treat everyone with respect. Over time, you might get a few transactions, but your business will decay. On the other hand, if you are focusing on all of these things, you create long-term relationship, which means through the ups and downs, people are partnered with you and remain with you and creates a very long-lasting growth path,

which can go through the ups and downs of growth that inevitably come in life. I do want to chat more about the ups and downs, but I also want to highlight. Hoshmark did create a space for a lot of people to have a career that they never saw coming. I read in articles where people were making over six or seven figures by selling fashion pieces they love

and just creating a career that brings them so much joy and brings other people joy to share the common passion of fashion, which I find really fascinating. Yes, I think the journey of seeing people blossom and blossom in their own unique way has been very gratifying. In both in terms of creating businesses, overcoming life struggles or finding alternative careers, it's been fun to see people blossom.

Absolutely. What were some of the hardest moments throughout your journey in scaling Poshmark? I know 2020 was not an easy year for you. Yeah. So, I mean, there's been many different severe points in this journey, many different highs and many different lows. But speaking of the advent of COVID,

we'd grown in 2019, but in 2020, we were starting to see growth slow down in the early years, and we couldn't figure out what was happening, right? And this was before COVID even became a thing. Like, people were, ah, COVID is here. It's not there. This is, I'm talking Jan Fab of 2020. And then by the time it started to become real,

we didn't know if anybody would even use Moshmarshmark. Because, you know, we were buying and selling used clothes. Well, use clothes had germs on them, theoretically speaking. And so we didn't know if anybody would do that. And so all through March, when, you know, it was declared a pandemic and everything, our sales just went down, like they were crashing. So I had to make a couple of decisions. how do I manage the business? My board was asking me to become profitable, and we wanted to become

profitable, close to profitability, but we were not profitable yet. At the same time, there was also pressure. A lot of companies were laying off people. Right. And so I had to look at our P&L and I worked with our finance team and our marketing team, and we created a metric called contribution profit, and we used the business to work towards that. And the single biggest level was, how do you work with revenue and marketing and gross profit and some of the terms. When I saw those numbers, I said, you know, really given how our team is, we can ride for a month or two without laying off anybody. And so I had to make a case to my board.

And initially there was a lot of pushback. Then there was a CFO-style member, and I worked with him, and I got the support. And luckily for us, we went through this process where we kept managing our contribution profit. We had set a profitability target for one year out. And within first year, even if there's 50% less revenue, because we were managing to this metric and no layoff, we became profitable. So going back to one of the questions you'd ask earlier, Zoe, is how did MBA help?

Like, a lot of these things I learned, I didn't know, where I was able to synthesize these different pieces together at that time to manage. And then what we didn't realize is people would be sitting at home and starting to sell and shop, you know, and we saw. And suddenly by April, May, the e-commerce business across the industry, and certainly repartement was booming. You know, we were starting to have some of our highest revenue and profit months with almost no marketing because people were just very focused on resale.

Even though they were not going out, they were still buying and selling very actively. So that whole thing was another steep sort of down, making some really gut-wrenching decision and then coming back. Now, imagine if I'd laid off a whole bunch of people, then I'd have to immediately hire a bunch of people. And here we could just tie it through this whole journey, without any major sort of disruption. Fear was saying, you've got to do this thing.

Read was saying, do this thing to make more money. Love was saying, do the right thing. And that allowed us to sort of make that decision. Not just for me, but for my whole team as we came together and the board. So I think that principle applies to a lot of these decision making as you go through life. Absolutely. Love over fear, not an easy. And greed sometimes. Because greed means, oh, I could lay off some people.

I'm seeing the growth. Let me make more money. Let me more money without thinking through. what the right sort of win-win is and long-term win-win. Gotcha. Not everything for yourself and not everything for everyone else, the right sort of partnership for everyone, for both of you. Absolutely.

I love that. And what was kind of the scaling strategy from zero to the first million of revenue from the first to the 10th and then 10 to like 100 and beyond? I think growth for a tech startup or a tech company is a continuous journey, you know, and I feel like in life, personal growth is also. a continuous journey. You should never stop in that process. So for us, as I said, first set of growth point came from live events. They were sort of our first distribution event. We still do them. Oh, live events. We're talking to posh parties, et cetera. You know,

I was talking about the five at five kind of a thing. Yes. Then came through social media distribution. Yes. Facebook came up with mobile app install, Snapchat, etc. They became huge points of distribution for us. Were they the main acquisition channels? In the early days, yes. In the second phase. So there was like live events, then some PR broadcast, then social, and then social became much bigger with mobile app installs, you know, back in 2013, 2014. Then they became really expensive. And we had to almost shut down marketing. So we've shut down marketing a couple of times. We had to, in 2020, we shut down marketing quite a bit.

But in 2014, we shut down. We took it down by 70, 80%. And that was just out of necessity. That was a time where a lot of e-commerce companies had overspent in marketing. The unit economics were not strong. And we were kind of in that point where we would have, would get to really bad unit economics. And that's when we made a decision to shut down marketing. Right.

And kind of strengthen all the pieces before we turned on marketing again. So we shut down marketing late 2013 and didn't turn it off until late 2014. Oh, wow. So that was kind of like we were going fast, then we grew slow. And then 15, we grew fast again. So it was kind of like this whole thing. But this time allowed us to consolidate it and build a product. And then, you know, we introduced broadcast and ran in our growth journey.

This was sort of an creator marketing and all of that in 2018, 2019, 2020. And then COVID had its own peculiarities, you know, through the process. I would say each journey has been on the marketing front different things. But then they've been product-led inflection. So we've done a lot of product innovation that has been key to our growth. You know, we had organic distribution into social platforms. We had conversion improvements. We did specific targeting by demographic.

We did category expansion. We started just having women. Then we added men and kids home. Then we did some international expansion. So all of those were sort of more product and demographic expansion and then your marketing expansion. So each stage, you got to figure out like what's needed, what do you need to lean in.

And we've been generally not reluctant to jump into new things. You know, when Apple Watch first came out, we experimented with building apps for Apple Watch to see if it can be interesting. We're working a lot with AI and ML right now. Okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com.

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SUVW, German engineered for all. Doing a whole bunch of things. So I think being able to jump into new things, new channels of distribution, can be sometimes taxing, but sometimes beneficial. So my advice here would be if new things are happening, don't commit 100% to it yet because they're still evolving. But experimenting with those formats, mediums, thoughts is key to growth. So true.

What are you excited about in terms of like the future fashion and AI? So many things that have been very very, complicated and laborious to do are starting to manifest with AI sort of really helping think it through. Okay. I'm also very excited about people collaborating with AI to reinvent fashion. So, for example, we have just launched a few months back, they're able to take a couple of photos and a whole listing is created for you, you know, driven by AI, recognition, etc. It's good, but I feel in the next one year or maybe sooner, it's going to get much better, right?

And so humans are still important. AI is important. The combination is really powerful. I think some of the stuff that's happening around virtual try-ons and styling is super exciting. Yes. You know, and the ability for ML to work and really connect you with interesting products is very, very, very exciting. And then, you know, there's so much more to come. There's so much more to come.

I think so. It's really fascinating. And is Poshmark really doubling down on the live shopping aspect? Yes. So we launched live shopping a couple of years back. And since we launched until today, we've, you know, our community has done over two and a half million shows. And we really lean into both, you know,

obviously people who are doing big live shopping shows. Right. But also giving everyone a superpower to do live shopping as well, which means you can start the journey and become big, you know. Kind of like Zoe, when they started at YouTube, channel and today she has millions of followers kind of a thing. So that's sort of been exciting to see how people have created their own kind of mini live shopping channels. One of the unique things that Pashmark does in live shopping is we allow people to not just sell from their closet or their

stores. You could also curate items from other people and sell it on their behalf. So that's been exciting to see what we call a share show, how it has taken a life of its own and become a big part of our community. And I also think AI is going to take live shows. in the next year into a whole new level. In what ways? I mean, there's stuff you can do with AI and live shows that is hard to fathom. Like, for example, I can visualize a day that a live show host could model an item without even putting it on and could have a live model, a virtual live model participating in their show

in a way that is hard to even sort of describe. It's not quite there yet, but we're getting there. That is so cool. And what are your thoughts on competition, both in the live shopping space and also in the fashion resale and like commerce space. I thought is it's a very big space. There is definitely a lot of players who've jumped into it. Right.

And we have to continue to strengthen our product and community to compete. We have to grow. We have to innovate, out innovate. But also I feel that the pace with which AI is going, the pace with which consumer attitude towards resale is happening, and also fashion brands and their connection to resale, all these three trends are so positive. that this area is only becoming more and more massive,

which means certainly more opportunity for us, but also much more competition in the future. So much. I know right when you started, Deepop also started in the same year and had their own growth journey. So it's been fascinating watching both thrive and in your own spaces. I think two years after we started, they were like 75 players in resale space in US alone,

not even global. That's crazy. And I don't know how many are there left today. I don't even know. But it's been fascinating to see, you know, how players have come and gone. And many players have been able to carve out spaces. Some people have become really big. Some people have become really big in foreign markets and stuff.

So I think the space is quite lively and expanding. And I think it reflects the fact that consumers are very interested in this space. Right. It has a real role in the fashion ecosystem. And the technology enablement only keeps growing in the same. in the space. And if you think about like at this very minute, you know, which is we're sitting in 2025 summer,

tariffs are a big thing, right? And when you start to think about tariffs and resale, well, resale is all about, you know, shopping within the country, within each other's closet. So that's very powerful as an alternative to how people can shop, you know, not that it's going to replace fashion, but it certainly gives a very powerful economically viable alternative depending on how tariffs evolve over the next year or two.

That's so true. What was the thought process behind scaling it to a place of IPO and then the acquisition? Yeah. So, I mean, we went through a massive growth phase leading to the IPO in 21. Right. Evaluations were crazy at that time. Crazy how like COVID just happened before and you were like, oh my gosh, everything is like going downhill. It was the weirdest thing, right?

It was like literally from March of 22, IPO in January, 21 was probably like, you know, going into this steep roller coaster, like kind of a thing, you know, like kind of a crazy, crazy process. And I remember when our stock was opening, it was, we were like really busy because we had to do a lot of things, me and my CFO, but the team was going wild around that time. And then it went through its downturn as, you know, as the valuation took a downturn. So it was sort of a interesting time. But what you started to see by 22 is that we were going from Consumer Wave 1.

to consumer wave too. And that's sort of when we started to discuss live shopping as a core engine. And in that process, we sort of really looked at how do we grow it in public eye or private eye. And so one of the things that drove that decision was certainly the right thing to do for our shareholders at that time as a public company, but also to lean into building out some of this new wave, which, you know, you're going to take some time. We're still in that process of rebuilding the platform and taking into new direction.

in Naver, which initially approached us for investment, a neighbor for those of you don't know, is the search engine of South Korea and also the Shopify of South Korea and then many other things. They're a very diversified company. Approached us for investment perspective, but ended up becoming an acquisition by them.

But their commitment is to grow it as an independent platform and that's what they're doing. Gotcha. And you're still very hands-on even after the acquisition. I've been pretty hands-on so far, yes. I can't imagine like the intense ups and downs. downs and ups and downs. How do you keep your inner peace if there was any like during times like these? I think I would say your family gives you grounding. I have an amazingly supportive family and,

you know, stuff that we can talk about and share things there. I have an amazing team that I can share many things with and they are a source of support for me. So those are two things. You know, you need to have your own mini community that can give you the support. And also my board members, investors prior to our acquisition. The second thing is, I think, creating some ways of decompressing. And so for me, I've meditated since I was 13 and 14. And off and on, I meditate. Yeah. Yeah, it's been something that's been part of my life. I used to do transcendental meditation TM for a long time. And then I moved to doing out of living. And so I've been doing that for a past 20 years or so. Sometimes, you know, more regularly, sometimes that's regularly, kind of like exercise, you know, overall.

And then I have some passions. Like I love reading. I love reading. I love. listening to new music. And so those things that allow me to kind of have a little bit of a distraction away and have some really good friends as well. So important. I think having that foundation is truly, if not the essentials of building a successful career, but it's also the wealth of life. The other thing which is important to think about, especially in this time and age, is when you think of balance, right, you can think of balance in a 24-hour day. Right. You can think of balance in a week. You can think of balance in a month. You can think of balance in a year. Like if you think of your life today, many things you're not able to do every day or even every month.

You can do them over a course of year, whether it is balancing sometimes your health, which you should be doing every day, but sometimes it's balancing relationships and balancing travel and other things, right? So as an entrepreneur, sometimes, you know, there are periods which are really intense and you're just focused on one track mind. But then you extend it out and there's times for joy and other things out there. So I always try to take, and this is something I didn't have in my mind when I was first. entering the on a career journey because there are so many things that are out of control. But through Pashmark, because I'd had some time to contemplate, I can elongate a time and find that balance will happen.

It may just happen next quarter, right? In seasons. You're able to extend that timeline to look at it. It's not easy because you're going through that intensity now, but at the same time, you know that this two shall pass in a very specific timeline, not like this two shall pass in a rare kind of a way. you know that it's going to come and then you'll have a different phase in that same journey. So that has been helpful in taking a little bit longer term perspective.

For example, when you think of the last six months, you'll be like, oh, my God, so turbulent. But if you took the last two years, wow, I was there and I'm here, right? And so taking a little bit longer time perspective allows you to introspect and appreciate where you are at the minute. I love that. And was this kind of your mindset when going into building Poshmart? because you built it at the age of 43, if I'm correct. And a lot of young people nowadays feel this anxiety towards, oh, I'm so behind on everything, which I constantly feel.

And I think it's just a very powerful story where if your intention is to build something long-lasting, might as well just start when you have the idea and work towards it instead of worrying about, quote-unquote, lost time because all the previous experiences added up to that point. to give you the tools to build something long-lasting. I mean, I actually, when I started Poshmark, I didn't even think, you know, age was a factor because I was, like, so passionate about what I was about to do. I love that. And I wanted to create a community with 100 million people.

You know, they were like sort of these specific things that were there. And I want to do it for a long time, which is what I've done, you know, over 15 years now. But I do think that age itself is not a factor. However, motivation is a factor. So the question I always ask is, why do you want to do this? And I think if you can bring it back to both a life goal and serving some community, then you are doing the right thing. And you're always serving some community, no matter what you're doing.

I may not relate to your community. You may not relate to my community. In this case, I think we can, but in some cases you may not be able to. But I'm serving some community. Whether you are a politician or you are somebody who's at the other end of the spectrum, you know, working in the kitchen. or you are a tech CEO, or you are a major creator and a podcaster, I feel like each person is serving a community.

And as long as you know why you're serving them, then it can be very exciting. When you lose that purpose or motivation, that's when you feel lost. That's a great insight. And you never really lost that motivation. You just kept going and going. You have to rejuvenate, though, right? At different points in time, there are different reasons because you hit some milestones and you have to say, okay, what am I doing?

why am I doing this, et cetera. And sometimes you have to reset, step back, like, why am I on this journey, right? If you can understand why you're on this journey, then you can go through whatever the journey entails, right? But if you suddenly feel like, why am I on this journey, you know, somebody forcing me to be on this journey, why am I here, then you start to feel really demotivated and sometimes out of control. And it's not that we are always in control, but going back to the mission, you know, as we call it, the purpose, the sort of the thing. And these are not very complicated things if you bring it down to who am I serving and why? And do I still care about them? Maybe you started caring about them, but now you don't. And you have to be brutally honest with yourself.

You have to be brutally honest with yourself. Because what else is there? You can't fool yourself. That's so true. How did you come to this level of self-awareness? Which is, I think, such a rare trait in modern society because there's so much stimulation and everyone feed it like constant desires that might not originate from themselves, but they're confused as. to you, oh, I want this because everyone tells me I want this. I don't know how I came to it, but I feel like in my journey, I had to do that because a lot of things I've done were unexpected. And so, you know, as an Indian immigrant trying to create a consumer company for

women's fashion, that to use, was just kind of like a funky journey. And, you know, there were a lot of naysayers along the process and even, you know, along the fundraising routes, et cetera. What were the pushbacks? I mean, in the early days, not. later as we start to get the business metrics. You know, I was heard that, hey, if you're doing a tech company, I'd fund you. But if you're doing a women's fashion company, maybe not.

I was going to say, because usually people have this perception, oh, you got to look the part or whatever. And you do not come from a fashion background. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that's why, you know, when you sort of go through that process, you have to develop that sort of a little bit of a different perspective. You know, it's all good when everything succeeds. Right. But it's really tough when things are not successful.

which happens many times along the journey. And even when you think succeed, you get very positive ego feedback. But when things are not working, which is many times, you get significantly negative ego feedback. And you have to kind of go forward with thought process, with a mindset of a little bit longer timeframe. And that's where sort of you really have to rely on your own thinking. And I think in life, obviously, we all seek validation.

But there are many tiers where we don't get validation. and what we do at that time is an important journey point, right? And I think to me, when you've gone through that multiple times, you have to learn to live with that. To keep on pushing without any rewards or validation. Keep on pushing and also realizing that everything is temporal. This two shall pass. The good shall pass and the bad shall pass.

You know, lean into the moment, but don't think this moment is eternity. Because eternity can be very challenging, right? Like it's like, I'm down now or like, let's take an example of what many 20-year-olds are going through 20-somethings is like, I'm never going to find love this. This relationship is over. I'm not going to find anything after that. So that's sort of the thing. But this two shall pass.

And then you'd be like, what was I worrying about? It feels very spiritual, but it's something you have to do and remember when you're going through. Everything's going down. And then you're a public company. Like, what the heck? Right. Because at the end of the day, whether it's the relationship game or a business. this game, you're constantly building this relationship with yourself and you have to establish

that trust and grounding belief that you can pull through no matter what. Both of the pieces. And it's challenging. It's even, I can't say that I'm in my 50s now and I can't say it's any easier, but you definitely start to get a calmer and sort of a deeper perspective on certain things. But there are still challenges that come along the way that are like, wow. Oh, wow. I don't know. This can happen now. Life is full surprises. What can I say? What was like the most painful? expensive lesson in Poshmark's history. One of the biggest, sort of the most painful things we did was when we started the company,

you know, we took a very holistic approach. So we wanted to partner with a logistics person like USPS to kind of create this very simple shipping option. We ought to create partner with payment providers for creating payment option. We wanted to be a good citizen of the state of California, which is we were born, and said, you know, we want to pay local sales tax, et cetera, et cetera. We succeeded in a lot of these things. but for most of our journey, the governments did not want to take sales tax.

You're a marketplace operator, can take sales tax from you. In 2017 or 18, the governments decided that, no, no, marketplace, they should collect sales tax. Okay. And that journey of us building sales tax and all of that ended up being very painful. In 2011, we tried to do the right thing. We couldn't do the right thing. And then when we were first to do the right thing, which I thought was the right thing, we went whole hog into the right thing.

But by implementing everything at the same time, we put a lot of friends. friction in the system, which I intuited back in 11 that it would put friction. If you build the marketplace with everything there, it won't put friction. But if you added it later, I'd put friction, it put a lot of friction and almost kind of got us into a tailspin in 2019. And so my lesson there is when new macro events happened, it helped me in 2020, but 2019 was painful. You've got to let time pass before those changes can fully sort of bake in and you have to

think through. you can't always react to it in the short term. And I think we did a lot of short-term things in 2019 to deal with sales tax, but none of them really worked. At the end, it was a factor. And we had to just live with it and let it sort of settle into the system.

So we applied that to 2020, like the macro conditions that were happening, you know, the journey I talked about. Yes. And so realizing that everything cannot be immediately fixed, sometimes it takes a little bit longer time, which doesn't mean you should not do things, to fix it, but having that longer-term patient, other than thinking you could fix it,

isn't important. That year, year and a half, which I thought was incredibly painful. Because we thought we were just like going like a rocket ship, everything was up into the right. And then this whole sales stack thing kind of really, at least for me personally, put a huge friction in my thinking that took some time to come out of. Gotcha. Was the friction more so on the front end in terms of the consumer facing price tag or was it

more on the back end? Front end, fortunately. consumers reacted negatively to sales tax. On that front, I think a more recent painful lesson has been trying to share the fees between buyer and sellers that we went to in fall of 2024 recently. You know, we thought we were doing the right thing by sharing the burden between the two of them ended up being the wrong thing. And we had to reverse.

I had to publicly apologize and reverse that fee change. Oh, wow. It was good we did it, but it was really painful. What was it like before? Our fee is the same as it has ever been. Okay. For a short period of time, we ended up changing the fees and splitting the fee. Today, the way structured is if a seller sells for $100, they get $80 and we keep the rest, right?

We kind of took it to the point that the seller got maybe 90 or something like that, and the buyer paid 10, some in that some range. And that was relatively a painful lesson that a change like that didn't work as we expected at all. It was a lot of negative feedback to begin with, but then the only good thing I feel is that we had the courage to roll it back when we got the feedback and the data. Everything was sort of misaligned. We did that. So in a large marketplace with a lot of stakeholders, making big changes, it takes a lot of courage and sometimes it can be completely in your face.

It can blow up. Yeah. And I think it takes even more courage to publicly come out as the personal brand attached to the brand to apologize, put your ego up art, even though it came from very good intentions, you still have to really just put your face in your name out there. So I commend you for that. Yes, no, and I think being authentic is important. But sometimes, you know, you can be misunderstood for a long time.

You may make a decision and people don't like it. And it may take them years before things come to pass. And that's sometimes the hardest. Sometimes you can make everything even in part in a short time. period of time it works out, but sometimes it can take one, two years, and that's definitely challenging. Yeah. A lot of these decisions aren't made by you solely as a person, but when you're the CEO and co-founder of the company, a lot of times the arrows point at you. How do you feel about taking on the responsibility of that? I think when I first started to step into the CEO role,

there was a lot of misunderstanding about that role. I would say today you have to accept the good, the bad and the ugly. They just come with the territory of being in this role. It's more an artifact of this role than anything else, right? When you are a CEO of a public-facing consumer company in the way that we've also built a brand and journey, there's many things that come with it, you know, and I accept it. I love it. Acceptance is such a crucial part for peace I come to realize. Yes, yes. And personal growth, I feel like one of the things I always talk about is when you take on a different role. Like you are a mid-level manager, you get promoted to a senior-level manager, or you become an executive of the company, or if you're an executive, you take on the CEO role

for the first time. The reason you got that role is because, many times is because you were really good at that, right? You were like good at the previous role. So think of it as a college. You were like a freshman. Now you became a senior. Now you graduated. But when you take on a new role at a different level, you're a freshman again. And so if you approach it from that freshman perspective, you can learn a lot. I think in a CEO's journey, you're always senior at some point, then you graduate to become a different scale of CEO or different kind of a company, and then you have to become a freshman again and a student again. And that journey never stops because it's not you're going to get a title upgrade after that. It's more like you get a role

change and you have to lean into learning many things, many things you know, but many things you have to learn at a different level. In fact, when your kids grow, when you have a 10-year-old kid and a 15-year-old kid, and now I have almost a, I have a 30-year-old son, and it's just you have to level up. You're a different kind of a parent at each stage. Never stop learning. About fatherhood, if there was only one single trait, you could wish upon your children, would that be?

I would say, always be curious. You know, always be curious and believe in yourself. I think my feeling is that everyone has the power to be enormously whatever they want to be, and by realizing that we are all given different virtues, which I call weirdness, you can lead into it to become great. So that would be my thing is that you can be all you can be. Just need to lead into your weirdness. I love that.

I want to talk about relationship as well. I come to realize that a lot of very successful entrepreneurs, they also have an extremely supportive system behind the scenes when it comes to family, partnerships, and so on. What is one essential quality you think that makes your partner so great? I think it is the support and trust that you have in each other. And knowing again that that support and trust is reciprocated with each other overall. So, you know, my wife has been such an anchor for me through this journey.

It was also the inspiration in a way of the project, but there's been an anchor. And now we're sort of trading places a little bit, you know, Paschmark is at a different level. And she just started her own, her sort of what I would call personal legend in the form of an organization called Jaspah Kala. which is doing really well. She's, you know, helping CPG founders of South Asian descent and sort of becoming mainstream connecting to distribution channels and other things. And she's building a whole community of entrepreneurs that she's serving personally with her co-founder. And so I'm here to support her through the journey and be there. So I think it is really that part that's there.

And the second thing I feel is at any point in time, you have to have to have division. labor. I believe very strongly that we're not all good at everything. I love division of labor. That's so economics. Critical thing. But division of labor is not just like labor. It's also empowerment. It's also like how you partner with people overall. As co-founded to partner with their kids, in family relationships, you're partnering with it. In that thing, if you realize what are my strengths and what are your strengths, you can really partner with the right people and partner in the right way. And so that has always been great between us, as both as family and as my co-founder. is that we are able to lean into our strengths and build that part of the business overall

and relatively stay away out of each other's hair to some degree discussion, but not like micromanaging each other. And that's been great. And that again comes from a place of trust and support. And I love how sweet it was when you were technically building at your kitchen sink and at your garage. She was so supportive serving the chai latties, baking and everything. So she was very much still involved as a crucial member throughout the journey.

Yes, yes, as a key advisor every day as a key advisor. No, I get a lot of feedback from my wife through the whole process and my kids as well. You know, both my son and daughter have given me tremendous feedback and been very valuable through the whole process. And today, I would say they have my personal board of directors in a way. Oh, that's so sweet. What is something that you found surprising that you learned from your children? I think sometimes, you know, your children can be an interesting reflection of who you,

you are so they can give you feedback on things you may not realize. And nobody might tell you, you know, especially as you become a more successful person. So I find the ability to get feedback from them on myself is only gotten better. But the first time I used to get it, I was like, a little surprised. Oh, this is how you think of me. Initially, I was like, resistant. But then I said, oh, this is a way for me to grow and improve. You know, this is good, good performance feedback as a person.

It's feedback for sure. In a sense, growing a company is, I wouldn't know. I'm not a parent, but it's kind of like giving birth to your child as well and watching a guide grow. Yes, yes. And you're building the company is a dimension. And then your customers and your team is the other dimension. So it's almost like you're creating this intense community, family, partnership, different

people describe different words, right? And that is part of that birth. Right. It's not just the product. It's the people that you. that become part of your life and you become part of their life, no matter what kind of company or business you create, and that is there together with your family and the life you have with them,

and they all have to coexist a little harmoniously in the process, or acrimoniously and harmoniously, whatever they are, they have to all coexist. And that becomes really interesting, particularly as an entrepreneur over a long period of time. I'm sure, because every day there's a new fire. I really love how present you were in your family. families' lives, like you showed up at your son's homecoming and therefore the idea generated. It's all like a full circle ecosystem.

It is full circle. I think family has been key to creation of Pashmark, key support, key people who are serving. And both my kids at various points have even helped out at Pashmark in different roles. Because they were older enough in the Pashmark journey. Kaboodle journey, they were very young, but in Pashmore journey, they were old enough to help out. And the funny thing was, I think in COVID times, we were all working in our house and, you know, we have a condo. And so everything was like transparent. So as we were doing a lot of things, I would get unsolicited feedback on how I was behaving in a meeting.

Because they were all listening to it. I'm like, oh, now I have a live meeting coach available to me. That is so fun. It is pretty funny. Funny. I don't know fun, but funny for sure. I love that. And what is one thing you would do if you had no fear?

I would probably learn to sing. No, I can't. But I love music, but I have terrible musical year. That could be a skill to improve on, I would say. I have fear. Okay. So that's your biggest fear. No, no, no.

It's one of those things. I feel like choosing a skill that you feel you really don't have and then jumping into trying is powerful. I shared something that I've shared before is that, you know, when I came to Texas in Austin first, I jumped into learning Mexican folk dancing. and even though I was kind of mediocre to terrible at it, but I did it. I did it for a year and even performed publicly with the local group. Did you have fun?

I had a great time and learned a lot of new things. I love that. I also cannot dance, but I joined two different dance clubs in college, and that was so much fun. I still have no bodily coordination whatsoever, but I just did it for its own sake. Great experience. It's really fun, and it's great physically, too. I think so. So imagine yourself back to the 19-year-old Maniz who just moved from India to Texas.

What would you say to him right now? I would say have less fear and trust your intuition more. Powerful. And what would 19-year-old Manish think about everything right now if he were to wake up? It's not possible. That's, I think, what he would say. Is there anything else I should have asked that I didn't yet? Actually, it reminds me. I have a little gift for you on that front.

Oh. Is, have these four books that I recommend for reading. Yeah. And so many of your audience might have heard of and some they may not have. But the four books I highly recommend is the Alchemist, which is, you know, the number one published book I saw on your story one of the days you were reading it. I read it because you recommend it to me. And then I finished it. And I just reread it again a day ago.

And I'm like, this is so good. It is really a powerful book. I've gone to it. We've even given it to folks with it. it. Second is a book called The Prophet by Khalil Gibran, and I have a copy for you. It's my new favorite book to give because it's used to give alchemist, but it's there. And then the third book is a book called Jonathan Livingstone Siegel. Livingston Seagull is the way to pronounce it. It's about the seagull who finds himself to be an odd bird. And so it's about

that seagull embracing their weirdness in the process. Love that. And then the fourth book is become a very pop culture icon, but I still think it's an interesting read. It's secret by Rodnerberg. And I call it my past to good life. Oh, interesting. Thank you so much for sharing these incredible stories, the insights, and for being so vulnerable and open. I'm sure it's an inspiration and great insights to so many, not just young people, but like people of all ages and gender who are embarking their own growth journey, whether that's entrepreneurial or something else. So thank you so much.

Thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Where can everybody find you or Poshmark? LinkedIn, Manishandra, and that's probably the simplest place to connect. Amazing. And then follow Poshmark on all the social platforms, download Poshmark. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much.

Thank you.