The Marketing Bestie Podcast with zoeunlimited - Ep2 SHEINfication..went TOO FAR. the untold story of Popflex &Blogilates

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

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Via rail, love the way. What is something that the internet might not know about you yet? He was like, why are you here? Cameltoe at the gym are a result of brands trying to save money. Yeah. I've even reached out to some of these dupe influencers offering to send them the real score telling them my story

and like, hey, just want to let you know, they'll just ignore because they're getting that kickback from selling the dup score with their little affiliate fee. Because at the end of the day, whether you're a dupe influencer or your Nordstrom, it's about money. It's about getting your piece of that, you know, that work that I did in 2021, that Taylor Swift ended up wearing in 2024. Everybody wants a piece of that. And the reason why it sells is because of all the hard work that went into it. And so they want to get a piece of it without paying for it. The part where I don't blame consumers for being duped so hard that they don't even know that they're being duped, I have to give you an example. Because I've had some people comment on my page and be like, I got your score and it took forever to get here and it smells like fish or whatever.

And the quality is so bad. I'm like, that doesn't sound like it came from our shock. Like, that's not what? What? No. And what ends up happening is that because these like fake drop ship websites or even TikTok shop vendors, Amazon vendors, whatever, they're stealing my content. They steal the model photos. They use it as an ad on TikTok shop.

Then they link it to their website with the stolen model photos. Also with the stolen description, everything's stolen. So by the time this user is scrolling TikTok, oh, my God, I saw Taylor where that scored. I saw Cassie talk about it. Oh, that's Cassie in the video. Let me click on it. Let me buy it. They've been duped so hard because.

Everything was my stuff to begin with, but it was never my stuff in reality. So what happens is that they get this bad product that they thought was Cassie's design from Cassie's shop. It ends up being from some rando drop ship, Ali Express, whatever. And then they come back to me and blame me for it. So that's the danger with this dupe stuff. Nobody talks about this because it affects me as a human, as a person because I see it. I read the comments. I am the designer.

I am the entrepreneur. It's your baby. It's my baby. and I'm also the comment reader from my page. Like nobody, for a blog, a lot of needs, I run all my own social, nobody edits or anything like that. It's all me to this day,

which is probably why I'm so tired. Oh my gosh. But it's fine. I choose this life. I choose this life. That's why it's so good. It's so authentic and so you. Because it's like my baby.

It's my baby. Maybe one day things have to change. But honestly, when you work on something for a year to three years, I want to be the person to tell its story when it is being birthed to the world. And so I choose to, to film and edit all my own videos.

You edit your own videos? Yeah, 160 second reel or TikTok can take up to nine hours between filming, editing, voiceover, like, all that kind of stuff. And I kind of just like, I just sit on the couch, like after work. And I just like, I just edit. And like I have like such bad like wrist, my neck. But because I just do it. But at the same time, editing these design videos starting in 2021, like brought the joy back

into editing for me because from 2009 to 2021. And I was just like so mentally unchallenged from fitness videos. Not that I love working out. I work out every single morning. I do not start a day without working out unless I'm like literally so tired or traveling than I can. But just I didn't feel like my brain and just my spirit were being challenged anymore. And so that's why in 2021 I wanted to switch my content for myself for Cassie.

Because my content has always been about, of course, serving others, but also I have to serve myself too. I have to feel joyful about it. Otherwise, you'll just be drained and you have nothing to give anymore. And that's why creators talk about burnout. And I can understand that because the audience is used to the content that you started with, the thing you got big with, right? And sometimes they feel like, well, this is what you should stick with. This is what we want. And like, maybe the views are also pulling you to do that. Yes. And at some point, it's like, okay, like that's one thing, but our views and expectations that people have of you everything, or is it your joy? And for me, it's my joy. Your peace too. Yeah, my peace. My heart has never led me to the wrong place. And so, yeah, changing my content in 2021, it added a lot more work into my life. Because towards the, like, towards like, I think a few years into blog lot of these, maybe a little longer than that. I hired an editor and got people to like to help me with editing because it wasn't too difficult. It's really just like, and again, I'm like doing the entire workout. All you have to do is like drop in the closeups every once in a while. It's like not that hard. There's no voiceover. I'm like literally.

talking to a microphone. So that for me wasn't, it just wasn't challenging me. And so in 2021, when I switched my content, man, that's like one 60 second video up to nine hours, nine to 10 hours of filming. And I just like, I don't even script anything. I just go. I just put up my phone like near a beautiful light source like you have right here. And I just go. And it's like, it's fun because I'm like modeling my own clothes. I'm talking about it. And I don't have to script because it's in my head. Like I knew what I was going to talk about. And we said that at the top of the interview. I knew what I was going to talk about three years ago, two years ago, a year and a half ago. And so, yeah, I think what gets really tough is that I film a lot. So I'll film up to like an hour of content and

have to push it down to like a minute, a minute 30 or something like that. That's the hardest part. That is hard. That is so hard. Especially when I'm like, oh, but I like look so cute in that ankle. But like that's enough of me modeling on that ankle. Yeah. Wow. I love that. It still brings you so much joy. I love how you keep on like finding new challenges for yourself and never settle. I think that's what creates a really powerful entrepreneur. But it's tiring because like for example, my my husband has taught me so much about when I first met him because I'm a very intense person, but I was like probably even more intense in college when we met. He thought I was like the annoying girl who like always raised her hand like all this kind of stuff. And he taught me how to

have fun in life. But I think Sam is very much like, hey, like are we good? Like, are we good? Like, it technically, like, yes, we're very good. But like, that, like, Asian immigrant mentality is like, but it's never enough. You can always do more. I don't know if it's something that my parents ingrained into me or it's something else. But, like, growth gives me joy, too. And maybe that's the problem. Like, maybe I should just be okay with, like, I'm good. But, like, if I'm not growing, why do I feel like I'm not good? I don't know. See, this is these things I got to work on for myself. Because I should, I should just be very happy and content with what I have, because I'm so grateful.

But it's like also so fun to explore and grow and try new things. But I think that's why I will never be settled, unfortunately. It's a double-edged sword. It's both a blessing and a curse. Yeah. But the positive outcome is that the world gets better, work out videos, and better pieces that we get to enjoy and look cute in. I guess.

Yeah. I guess. But then Cassie doesn't get to rest. What is something that the internet might not know about you yet? I am in the process of getting scuba diving certified. That is so cool. Yes, yes. And I've been wanting to do this for a really, really long time.

Like, I love snorkeling. I started free diving. And I just wanted to take it to the next level. And so this week, actually, I'll do part one of the scuba diving certification, which is so cool because the underwater world is the most peaceful, most beautiful thing. And I truly feel in a Zen state when I'm underwater. So I'm really excited about that. Oh my gosh.

That sounds so peaceful and calming. It's truly the only time I really turn off my brain is a deep tissue massage because I'm just focusing on elbow in muscle dancing. I love dancing. And when I am in the water like free diving or snorkeling, like because it's so meditative. I don't meditate. I don't know how people do it. I just can't.

When people say think about nothing, I think about everything. But when you're in the water, with the snorkel in your mouth, you are forced to breathe in and out of your mouth in a very slow manner. And the water also slows down your movement. So naturally, I begin getting extremely relaxed. Plus, there's like beautiful fish and coral everywhere. So I just love it so much. So I just want to get more intimate with the water world. I love that.

Yeah. That's such an interesting way to, like, de-strivolve. dress, but I feel like everyone needs that something to decompress and to find their safe space of peacefulness in their lives. Yeah, it's much, much needed. The California waters are very cold. I love the tropical waters, but I need to take more frequent maybe like mini trips so I can get it in my life a little bit more. I love that. I got to prioritize yourself. It's an investment. It's really hard. It is hard. Yeah. Yeah. I really do hope you take some time for yourself. I need to. I need to go snorkeling and diving some more.

Totally so well deserved and just, yeah, I hope you get to replenish yourself and to feel full before you give out to the world. I think sometimes I feel guilty for taking a break. Like, I'm not productive enough. And I totally understand what you mean about, oh, I have to keep on growing and growing. But sometimes I'm like, am I growing for growth's sake? We're like, what is the true purpose here? I know.

Because there are days when I will be like, what is the point of? everything. Why am I racing to the grave? I was just like break and all of that thinking came when we launched blog a lotis at Target in January and yeah, thank you. So for all of 2024, I was building a second brand behind the scenes that nobody knew about. So I was doing like running two businesses at the same time then. Double. Then and we didn't know that if we launched at Target in January at all stores and blog a lot of ease for those of you that don't know is pretty much the affordable version of Popplex and more accessible for people. And we didn't know if that was going to cannibalize the Popplex business.

Did it? Well, when we launched, I held my breath and I was so scared. I was like, oh my God, is this like literally a mistake? I don't know what we're doing. And then within the first three days of launching, we sold through 90% of like the top selling items and the racks were bare. It was insane. And the crazy part is we saw sales lift on the popplex side, which is insane because I was like, oh, wait, what? I thought it would take away. And so that was a risk we took that was obviously really worth it. But I had always told the team and I told Sam, I was like, we're going to have to figure out how to restructure the business and grow the team after January. Because let's say if it doesn't work, right? Let's say if it did cannibalize the business, I would have just been like, okay, we'll just stop with Bloglotties that just didn't work out. And we'd be fine. But now in success, I have emotionally broken down so many times since December before

launched until even like literally yesterday because it's really difficult. Managing larger team, managing all the different pieces because it's not just like I sketch something and then there you go. Like goes out. It's not like that. It's logistics. It's so much. And now there's the legal aspect to everything. Like it's a lot. And so I'm just trying to figure out. Like how do I grow this company or two businesses really while keeping that same magic in the culture that we have right now? Because it's so special. Like I said, back in the day, I didn't even think we'd be able to have what we have today. How do I keep that but still scale?

And that's a question that I ask myself every single day. And I'm really afraid of anything turning corporate because I worked in a corporate environment for a little bit of time when I moved to the East Coast. And being in that environment taught me everything that I never. wanted to do to my employees. And so... So valuable. Yeah. So that was good. Very painful, but good to learn that. Everything painful leaves me with something that I'll never forget, because it's like ingrained in your memory and your body for life. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you do need systems and you do need rules and stuff in order to scale. And that is this weird push and pull that I'm dealing with right now that I'm trying to figure out.

As much as I want to run like a flexible small business forever, I don't know. Like is that possible? I don't know. Like I'm going to try and I think I've been trying. And I think because maybe it's not doing what I needed to do. Maybe that's why I'm so tired right now. Right. Trying to run things the way that I have always run things behind the scenes.

So I need to figure out what it means to scale the business and keep the magic and keep the soul. Otherwise, it's better to stay small to keep the magic and soul. Like what's the point of growing if you get to that level where everyone's like, a robot and nobody cares about anyone you treat people like a number like what's a point of life then what is that so anyway these are the things that i'm like dealing with and just trying to figure out that's so like raw and true thank you for the honesty and i think there's a very hard trade-off between you know scaling versus keeping the intimate structure and like that speed and the startup vibe going yeah because like these days like if we want something to happen like we just go

The cruise versus speedboat, right? Exactly. Yeah, that's in our... Okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh. Then it's the vacation of a lifetime.

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No investor personality required. Because you, are made to trade and TD Easy Trade is made to help. Download it now. The core values, yes, always be a speedboat, never a cruise ship that like literally can't even turn around. Let me tell you when I'm working with corporations. One department literally has no idea what this other apartment is even talking about. They don't talk to each other. And the legal takes like three weeks to get back to you. Oh God. It's like, it's so exhausting. So like what is even the point of being that big if you can't do anything? It's frustrating.

because I don't want to be like that. It becomes fragile in a sense when you scale too big instead of being antifragile and have that agility to adapt, which I have to applaud you for always spotting trends and starting trends early. For example, having core colors that's a summer palette over a year before. That's like such a risk because it just like we don't follow any trend reports or anything. We just kind of feel. Is it your feeling or like?

the team. I'm feeling maybe the design team's feeling like we just kind of throw out things. And in the end, like I'll be the one to like finally pick the colors. But like we just launched this cayenne color, um, which we picked over a year ago. And like around the same time like Bay's launched their like, like I forgot what they called it. But it was literally like the same pantone. I was like, wait what? Like I don't know. Like I'm assuming maybe they have like more sophisticated ways to, to like look at colors. But for us, we're just kind of feeling and like, thank God I can still trust my good. But maybe there will be a day when I'm like, I don't know what's going on anymore. But I think it's because I'm always on social and like always everywhere. I see things. I'm

constantly inspired. And so luckily for us right now, it's working, but it's also risky. It could be wrong. I don't know. It's always risky. It's always risky. Whatever, I guess. Anything like worth pursuing always comes behind like a thick wall of risk, challenges, potential backlash is a lot of resistance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now back to when he said, like, I really know, like, the things about the garments. Like, I don't think I've ever talked about this, but, like, whenever I would do, like, squat challenges and I would be wearing other brands. So, you know how most leggings have that seam up the front, right? Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Like, I get the worst camel toe in the world, but I'm filming. And when I film a fitness video, we're not cutting. Like, so anytime you see me, like, doing the workout, yeah, there might, there might be, like, cuts to, like, a close-up of stuff, but I'm actually, like, not taking more. break the whole time. So I'm actually working out. So I can't actually just adjust or pull it down. I have to constantly adjust when I do hip thrust at the gym. Yes. And pull it down. I'm like, am I being inappropriate and flashing anybody? I know. And so like I heard that other, what do you call it, like fitness people who are like teaching on TV or whatever they would like girls would wear like a panty liner and put it

into their panty so that it'd be like a flat platform. The amount of extra effort. I know. We have to put in just to like work out. To work out and be healthy. I know. So then, so then like also that didn't work for me. It just made the crease even like more intense. I was like, oh my God. Like it was so bad. So anyway, for me, getting rid of Camel Toe was like no, duh. Take away the front scene because that's causing tension. It pulls up because it's not stretching as much as the rest of the fabric. So take that out and then everything lays. And it's like no longer a problem. of it's just like these things like why was that seam even there well i do know why it's a save money is just like the way yardage works and everything like that i didn't know that yeah because it costs more money to cut for example that front pattern is like leg crotch leg waist right versus and then you have like a space right here versus cutting leg chop leg chop and put them all next to each other so that it actually is cheaper for the manufacturer do something like that but as you can see it causes problems on the body. It doesn't actually work. So camel toes at the gym are a result of brands

trying to save money. Yeah. Yes. That's crazy. It is. Because what does that line serve? Nothing. Probably the same type of stitching as men's apparel. That's why it's easier. I think just the fact that there is stitching there, you don't need to have it there. It doesn't do anything. Except do bad things. So anyway, that wasn't, that was like, yeah, we got to get rid of that. I'm so glad you did. Yes, good. It's very good. Yeah. And even when it doesn't show, for example, in our rompers or our dresses, you know, we have a layer covering it because Camel Toe isn't just about, oh, that looks not flattering. It's also, it's literally uncomfortable because it's going up, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So even on garments where we're covered, like the scorts, I still do no front seam, even though it'll

cost more because nobody needs to feel that. You should feel comfortable in your clothes. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No wonder. I'm just like Popflex always feel so comfortable. So you really are thinking for every single user. I am, but mostly me. No, just kidding. No, no, no. You have to be able to like know the pain point and the struggles. I do. And for the most part, I can, but also I don't have a big bust. So when it comes to stuff like that, I really depend on our team and also our customers to tell me what they're looking for. Because for me, for me, you know, I can just wear like a low cut sports bra with like the tiniest straps and like whatever I can go running. But girls with probably larger than a B or a C or something, they're going to need that support and like a thick straps that are adjustable that like really push the boobs in. And so every single person's opinion really does matter because the perspectives are so different based on how your body looks.

So true. You know? And so I love being able to solve problems not just for myself but for everyone too. People always are like, oh, like aren't the problems exhausting? but I think problems are like the source for creativity. I agree. Constring is a mother of creativity. But I'm also very curious because you have such sharp intuition and you're very in tune with your gut.

How do you describe your intuition and how do you develop the sense of intelligence? I don't know. I think I've always been a confident person. Maybe I should like give creds to my parents. Yeah, I love that. I don't know. I just trust my heart. And I know that sounds really, really vague, but when something feels right, I just know it.

And when it feels wrong, I also know it. And it's gotten to a point where, like, if I feel a change in my breath and how fast my heart is racing, like, my body starts shaking. Like, it's probably not good. But when it feels right, it feels so good. Like, it feels like the right puzzle piece fitting into another piece. You know, I don't know how I developed that. I guess you also get confidence over the years when you do. do make a decision that's risky and it ends up being right. Like, you just get confident,

but you don't get there unless you take chances. And of course, I've had like so many failures and like, you know, products that I thought were going to be good that nobody likes, you know? Like what? Okay, well, for example, so low rise, I knew this was going to come back. I knew it was going to come back because I saw the 2000s were coming back, cargo pants. I thought it was coming back. So I was like, hey, let's do like a low rise, like running short because I love running shorts. Honestly, that was probably the slowest selling thing in the history of of Pop Flex because nobody wanted to wear a low-rise running short. I mean, it's still my favorite short.

I choose to wear it almost every single day if it's not dirty, but people just weren't into it. And so, you know, it is what it is. But at least I still like it. It's fine. I think that is what matters the most because, like, at the end of the day, it's not the output or the result. It's like who you become through the process. And if you're proud of the work, then nobody can say anything about it because you're

proud of it. And I think like the challenge with fashion is that everything is in cycle. So you just have to wait for its turn. Yeah. I think the thing with the low eyes running short is maybe when you're running, you want more things to be covered and like sculpted in. I'm not sure. But I like it. So yeah.

Anyway, totally in cycles. Always in cycles. Like bubble skirt. I didn't think it was going to last that long. I honestly thought the bubble skirt was going to come in and out. But it's still here. It's been like over a year. I'm so surprised.

I love that. That is good foresight. Yeah, yeah. You know what's also really interesting when Capri's started coming back like last year? I don't think it really made a comeback, though. The bubble skirt is stronger than the Capri right now. Okay. Do you wear Capri's?

No. Uh-huh. I just don't. Yes, exactly, because it makes you look really short. It just truncates your leg. I mean, I love trends, but I always tend to up for more timeless things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your style is so good.

Thank you. Coming from you, that means a lot. Oh, obviously. You look so classy all the time. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, like, for example, this skirt, I can wear any season, spring, summer, fall, winter.

I can wear in 2020 or 2030, like, period. Yeah. And so that's why I love Popflex a lot because you can style it in, like, up or down, like, casual or more formal in so many different ways. And a lot of the pieces are very timeless in my view. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And I think what's really interesting to me is that you made a very intentional rebrand or a pivot from, quote unquote, influencer to entrepreneur where for different press pieces, you even edited out the word influencer and swapped it with. How did you notice that?

I talked to your team. And I've been listening to your podcast appearances like many years before. So this is also a very full circle moment from me. I'm like, oh my gosh, I get to talk to someone who really inspires me and learn. Oh, I love that. I love that. And yes, that was a very intentional thing because, oh, the word influencer, we can talk about this. I feel like it comes with negative connotations. Absolutely. I used to get an ick from it. But now I'm kind of proud. I'm like, well, they're good influences and bad influences. So why not push the narrative in the more positive

direction? And essentially, I think everyone's an influencer. When you tell your mom, your best friend, hey, I love this jacket. I love the skirt. You're influencing them. So everyone has a certain degree of influence. No, I fully agree with that. I think there's like so many things we could talk about with influencer. I think the reason why the term influencer was given me the ick as well is because it was like, but what do you mean?

Like what are you influencing? Like what, it felt vapid to me. Like what, what is it? But at the same time, I was reading some other articles about how media or people tend to call females influencers, but you don't. hear about male influencers. They're like content creators. They're like, there's like different wording. So did that negative connotation also just come in the space of like judging women? That like made me think about it for a second. But regardless, I've talked to people who have

even made videos about judging Popplex for being an influencer brand and not wanting to try it. And so I actually went in the comments. I was like, hey, I know you don't like influencer brands, but I promise you, we're not like that. Just let me send you a package. And yeah, And then she was like, you know what? That was pretty bold of you. But sure, I'll take a package. And in the end, she was like, okay, like, you proved me wrong. This is not an influencer brand.

And she ended up loving the clothes. So there is this negative connotation with the word influencer that ends up harming brands as well. Really? Yes, because she didn't even want to try Popplex because she thought it was an influencer brand. I also had another influencer friend who was like, I love the way that you've built the brand because it doesn't feel. like an influencer brand. And so coming from all different sides, it's kind of like nobody, at least from what I've heard, nobody wants to have an influencer brand. Because I think what comes with that is our predecessors, right? They were making like spring teas that were like, you know, it's merch.

Yeah, just merch. They're making merch. Merch not a brand. Exactly. And so I think merch hurt influencer brands of the future. And so there's a lot of like cleaning up, clearing up of like, hey, this is not an influencer brand. But like, yes, technically I guess I am an influencer. and it is my brand, but like you don't want to call yourself an influencer brand. So anyway, whatever. So yes, through like very strategically beginning when my content changed, I wanted to make sure that media wasn't covering me as like, quote unquote, just an influencer, even though there's nothing wrong with that.

But like for me, I wanted to be viewed more as the entirety of what I am doing, which is I'm a CEO, I'm a head designer, I'm an entrepreneur. So like, how about we reframe, we restructure a little bit? And I think it's sticking. So that's good. And it is literally what I'm doing. Like this, my entire life is my business. Yeah.

Yeah. Which is crazy to me. Like when you said you're still editing your videos, I'm like, right. So I'm still a content creator too. Yeah. I never ever expected that because in the public's perception, I think you definitely successfully rebranded from a creator to a very solid entrepreneur in the space. And you have like earned your stripe through the challenges and the hardships.

I think the product speaks for itself and markets itself where I would have like just bought the product for itself if I didn't know you. That's what I want. I don't want people to buy stuff because of me. I want them to buy it because they love the fit. They love what it solves for them. They love how it looks on them and how it makes them feel. That to me is success. Like I want this brand to live on for generations after I die. I want this to be a legacy brand. I don't need to have influence on it in the future. But what I do want to make sure. is that our core values, the way we develop product, that sold the why behind every design, that needs to live on all the way, generations, hundreds of years from now, because if that doesn't live on, the business is dead. So that's the influence that I want to leave on the business.

I love that. That's a true heartbeat of Popflex, right? How much of the marketing right now is still, like, organic content versus do you run any paid ads? We do. I don't handle that. So there's the blog galati's page, which is all me. Nobody touches that. Nobody reads my DMs, my comments, anything that's all literally, Cassie-Ho.

And then because I don't trust anyone to do that. Oh, my God, I'm terrified. Because imagine, I mean, I got hacked one time on Snapchat back in the day, so I don't even go on Snapchat anymore. But that is my identity. And I feel like my Instagram is also like my blog. And so it's me. Anyone coming to back as Blogelotti's is literally Cassie-ho.

Anyway, on the Popplex page, Popplex underscore Active on IG, that's our marketing team. And of course, they'll repost, like, my videos over there. But, you know, we'll have. Which is so good. Oh, thank you. They do so well organically because it's engaging storytelling. Like, the years of rep you put into, like, building content and the legacy in the creator space, no effort goes to waste, right? You built up, like, a very intuitive marketing mechanism for the brand of Popflags and Blogdys just very intrinsically.

Yeah. And it's like, you know, in 2009, uploading my. first video. Like, I didn't know where this was going to take me, but over time, I learned how to story tale. And then through TikTok, people talking about, like, the hooks and stuff. And I was like, oh, okay. And like, storytell in 60 seconds or less. Like that, because I grew up on long form, which used to be like long form. Like back in the day, people were looking at YouTube, like that's short form. Like, no, like short form is literally like five seconds now. But, no, you learn all of those things through different types of content that you upload to the content that

I produced today. But yeah, so the Popflex team, they do marketing on their socials. I do marketing on my own socials. And a majority of it is organic that brings in the sales. So whether it's through social media, whether it's through our newsletter, whether it's through our SMS or texting, which has such a high like click through rate and everything like that. That's the bulk. Smaller percentage is with paid ads. I don't actually know the percentage, but it's definitely like nothing compared to other DTC brands. I don't think I've ever seen a Popflex brand ad. That's why I ask.

Well, that's good. Everything's like so organic. Yeah, we do, but it's very like small. And I don't think the conversion is as good as an organic video anyway. So true. Yeah. Have you ever received any mentorship and business? When I was in college, there was one professor, my marketing professor that I have always loved so much.

His name is Dr. Crane. And I would go into his office and tell him that one day I want to start a business. and just like trying to run ideas by him and he was there for me as I felt like emotional support and also just like I don't know I needed that at that time because I was so lost because in college I was very much like am I supposed to make my parents happy by being a doctor or should I be a fashion designer and run a business one day and like he was very much like there to listen to me and so I really appreciate that but in terms of mentorship I don't have a formal mentor I read a lot of books and I also follow very closely what people are doing. And I watch a lot of documentaries. So my three favorite inspirations to look at in this moment, because over time it changes as you change. But in this moment, it's Taylor Swift, as they said before. It is Joanna Gaines because she's built such a huge empire between entertainment and product with her husband. So I love that there's that similarity between her and Chip and then me and Sam. And then Walt Disney.

My goodness, like I've watched so many things on him. I've read so many books and just the way he just created something that made him happy. Like, did you know that when he created Disneyland, it was actually because things weren't going so well with animation. Oh. Yeah. And so he got super into toy trains. And that's why you see that there's a train around Disneyland. And nobody believed that he could make an amusement park that was good for families.

Because at that time, and I didn't know this, but at that time, amusement parks were kind of like trashy and dirty. He's like, no, I'm going to make it for families and make it something that people are going to travel and want to go to. And then he created what we see is Disneyland today. And Disney, oh my goodness, through media, through product and the fandom that they've created. And while it's been gone for a really long time, but just Disney in general, it is like one of the biggest rands and things that people are obsessed with in this entire world. And so those three together, I read up and watch as much as I can. what they are doing. And I find that that is my mentorship. Truly.

Yeah. So I would love. I would love to have a mentor. I would love to. But I think what's happening right now is the books and the documentaries and also being able to text like other founders and ask them like, hey, how did you deal with this situation? How did you get past this thing? That's been really nice. So I'm very, very grateful for that. Yeah. And I hope to make more friends in this space as well. I love that. Yeah. I think like as you progress, you naturally just attract similar people with ambition with drive and hungry to learn and grow. And I love how resourceful you are because a lot of people, they put on a limit on themselves, a limiting belief where they're like, oh, I don't know how to go about my dream. For example, you were studying pre-med.

You didn't know how to go take this long route back to fashion, yet you did it. It's all about testing, experimenting and be resourceful. You might not have an in-person mentor, but there's so many resources out there, books, documentaries, and you create your own board of directors. We're like on board of mentors, so to speak. So I love that. Yeah. And I also want to give credit to my husband, Sam. I want to talk about Sam. Yeah, because he is my sounding board, my rock. Like, I'm so grateful that we go through everything together. Yeah. Because maybe I would have broken a lot sooner if I didn't have him because the unique things that we have to face as our business grows, the good and the bad is extremely difficult.

And obviously because we're husband and wife and best friends, like we have the same intention and we'll figure it out. But if I didn't have him while running this business, it would be probably a lot rockier because it's just hard to trust people, right? Like this, it's hard. Trust and competence are so lacking in the business world. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yep. So yeah, I think Sam and I, like, we have learned so much over the years. And it was at his parents' house where we filmed the first YouTube video on like this like his dad's camcorder that like wasn't even working properly. So by the end of it like it like kind of like fizzles to green for some reason. It was probably like literally so old from the 90s. People probably thought it was oh, cool special effect. And like I didn't know how to edit. I was using like Windows movie maker like ill. Like like I didn't know anything. But like from that to now. like having two brands and like Target and like it's just like we've learned so much it's crazy. That is beautiful that you grew together. Yeah. And he knew me before anything. I wasn't blog a lot of these or anything. I was just annoying girl raising her hand all the time in class because he was my finance tutor and he was like, you're annoying girl. Like when I came into finance tutoring because I got a B minus on my test and I was like, ugh, disgusting. He was like, why are you here? I deserve an A.

Exactly. Yes, I ended up getting like an A minus in that class, but like whatever. He still does the finances now for a business, so it's fine. I love that. I love that. What is one way that Sam is so essential to pop flex the way that he shows up, but not many people know? Oh, my goodness. I mean, together Sam and I are like the crux.

And like that's probably problematic too and probably why we're so tired. But we like are constantly catching things. we're orchestrating things. And I think there does need to be a change in our structure so that we're not so into the weeds on everything. But for example, something that we do that nobody knows is when we're ordering a product. And especially if it's a new product that we've never released before, Sam goes to me, he's like, so how do you think this one's going to do?

And I'll just be like, I feel like this one's going to go viral. And he's like a more logical data guy. And he's like, so, Cassie, are you saying like, you're going to make a video about it? I'm like, yes, I feel. I feel like it's going to be good. And I'm going to make a video. So, like, order a lot. And he'll be like, okay.

So sometimes that's our conversation. Now, like, on like, reorder products that have a history of doing well or not doing well, he'll be in charge of being like, okay, we're going to reorder this and this color and these sizes or like, okay, that one's going to go to the graveyard. I'm sorry, Cassie, but that one just didn't work out, like the lower-eye shorts. And so that's just like one tiny thing that he does for the company. But nobody knows that we have these like very not mathematical conversations about how to order and like quote quote buy product for the season. Because people have entire jobs.

They're called like planners and buyers and like inventory specialists. Like literally it means him. He'll be like, hey, Cassie come here. Like how do you feel? I'm like just like I feel like it's going to be good. And that is why we're so tired because everything is just feeling. Oh, that is hard because you cannot replace yourself yet in terms of the decision-making process. I know.

And it's like, it's so hard because like usually, usually the feelings are right. I was incorrect on the low-rise short. I was so incorrect. And we had to put those unclear. We don't know yet. No, no, no. I think they're like sold out now because it's been so long. Okay.

But yeah, like nobody was having it. But I'm a huge fan. Yeah, but that's that's one thing. I love it. I love it. And how has your relationship dynamic with Sam really evolved or transformed through the years since making the first YouTube video to building a mobile app to creating the blog lotis brand and Popflex? So I think Sam and I still have the same relationship we had back in college. Really?

Yes, yes. But it's just more intense. It's a lot more intense. So Sam has always said that he's the best supporter ever. And this is so true. Like whether it's in his friendships or in his relationship with me, he's like always the rock. And whether we were making YouTube videos or the app or building an apparel business, he's always been the rock. You know, I complained to him a lot.

And like he should probably like just blow up and get sick of me. But he listens to me for the most part, unless I complain too much. And then he's like, can you please go, like, text one of your other friends because I've had enough. But for the most part, he listens to me. He helps me work things out. And we get through it together. But it's hard. It's like the problems then are so different than the problems now.

But look, even though they're bigger problems, at the time when you're like smaller and starting YouTube channels, those problems feel like really big problems. Higher world. Yes. So, you know, I think the proportion of the problem is the same. But we now impact more people. Whether that's people on our team or just customers and our community in general. So these decisions, they feel more heavy because they affect so many more people. But anyway, I think Sam and I, for the most part, are the same.

Maybe you should ask him that question because maybe he doesn't think. But he always knew that I was an intense person and I'm still, I'm still intense. I have not gotten less intense. You should ask him if I've gotten more intense. Maybe I have. I think you will have. He probably knows you in certain aspects better than you know yourself. I agree because I see myself how I want to see myself.

But he views me from an outsider, but you know, like not an outsider, but you know, like not in my body perspective. Yeah. Yeah. What is it like creating a business empire together with your partner? I feel so grateful because anytime we have to go on a business trip, we're always doing it together. And so what that means is that after, you know, like a big target meeting or something like that we can spend time. be like, hey, let's walk the city, like, let's do this or let's stop by this museum or whatever. And it's like everything just becomes more fun because you're doing it with your significant other.

All the time, I'm so grateful specifically for travel because without Sam, I would not make it to the right airport, unfortunately. Like, I literally have gone to the wrong airport on the right day, the right airport on the wrong day. And sometimes I'll even sit in the right gate, but not make it on the plane. Like I've had that Yes Oh my gosh I was like I'm so early

So early And I'll just sit here Chill do my work And before I'm like It's like the right time To fly now I check in

And the plane has left Oh I've never met in The prison Has done that before I was crying Oh my god And it was the last

flight of the night No No no no no The people were like So sad for me But they couldn't Stop laughing You're like

How is that possible. Wow. Okay. They didn't page me. They might have announced something I did in here. But you were so focused. You're probably working or something you're so focused. Yeah, I was like, I'm here and chilling. Same. It's when you get there too early. That's the problem. For me anyway and for you apparently, okay, I've never met anyone that's done that. So I feel less alone. Thank you. Um, but yeah. So obviously it's fun to have Sam as a companion, but also as like a logistics master. Have you seen those TikToks or reels where the girl's holding on to her boyfriend's hand and she's like, la-di-da-da-da.

Like, I don't have to think about anything because when I'm at the airport, like, he does everything. Like, I can just be like a princess. Yeah. Like, that's me. Like, thank God I have Say-I-so. I don't have to think about anything. It's great.

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Like dating advices. Selfishly, I want to know what makes a great partner. How do you identify one? Don't tell me, like, your heart felt it. I know it felt it. No, no, no, no. Okay. So when Sam and I first started dating, my parents were so,

intense over when I could day what my career was going to be. They wanted to control everything. So my dad was all about the academics and career. My mom was all about the dating. And so my mom made up this rule that said, I can't have a boyfriend until second year of college. And second year, that's so specific. Yeah, I know. She's like so specific, right? Okay. So I had a secret boyfriend in high school and she found out. I love the war. Yeah. She basically forced me to break up with him while listening on the phone. So that was traumatic. I'm saying this like funny, but at the time like I'm literally like it was traumatic traumatic wait I think um I have a similar situation where my my parents were like don't date and I have like a summer fling or whatever uh-huh

nothing like material it's more so just like a cutesy like a talking stage like he's innocent it was very innocent very cute but at the end I felt like hey I think I have some attachment issue where I suddenly got an ick and it my avoidance was picking it So that was not good. That's something I had to work on. Was this high school? This was high school. Yeah, yeah.

But easy to get ex in high school. Secondly, I was like, we can't, like, there's no way to sustain this when, like, school starts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, my parents are kind of in on a lot of my daily activities. There's no time. And, yeah, there was one time, like, before that, my dad switched the Wi-Fi password because I was, like, using my phone too much. And at the time, I was talking to a boy in middle school, I think. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

So, yeah, that, I don't think that was his intention, but that snapped it. Oh, my God. No, I remember there was, like, a time, like, in the summer where I was hanging out with a secret boyfriend, and we were literally, it was so innocent. We were, like, hanging out under a tree. Like, okay, it was, we were literally under tree. Wow, that is romantic. Then I saw my mom driving around her van looking for me.

Like, so, so anyway, so that's how intense my mom was over my dating. So, anyway, she made up this role. And then, so I met Sam third year of college. So I thought, like, we were, like, like I was good. And then she was still upset at me and was like, why are you dating? You should be focusing on school and all this kind of stuff. And anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with Sam really.

But okay, I just wanted to give that context that dating was really blocked off for me. But I guess my point is that Sam technically was my first like legal boyfriend and my mom's rules. But then when we got married later on, I was like, ha ha, remember. when you told me that I couldn't have a boyfriend until second year of college and she's like, what are you talking about? And I was like, are you joking? Because I lived my entire life around that rule. Wow. You know, anyway. Anyway, I also think that rules, whether it's from your parents or even like societal laws, gray, always changing because, you know, like, if you think about it, like things that were technically legal or laws back in history are now illegal.

And so what is even a law? What is even a rule? So I kind of live my life like that sometimes. Obviously, I don't want to end up in jail. Like I think that's where I draw the line. But rules, I feel like it's interpretive. Anyway, I wish I knew that back in high school. I would have had more fun.

Anyway, so Sam was my first legal boyfriend. And because he was my first legal boyfriend, I also was like, what else is out there, that sort of thing. And so there was a time period when I wanted to explore and absolutely broke Sam's heart. I'm so sorry about this. I'm so sorry. And then I got really confused. I was like, maybe I did have the best thing ever. Like I think I always had to explore to know that. You know, I think it's really important to go through pain and like to understand how good you had it because if you don't, you wouldn't appreciate that. of course, I'm very sorry that I put Sam through what I put him through by, you know, asking for a little bit of a moment to explore. But it made our relationship stronger. And I remember being so confused at this point being like, should we be together? Should we not? And I was on YouTube and I was just like looking for advice.

Like love advice, dating advice. I learned dating through YouTube and books and things like that because it's very taboo to talk about it, at least in my household, for a lot of Asian families. Yeah. Yeah. And my parents were each other's basically official first love. So they don't really understand. They didn't have to do all that. It's messy. And then when your heart is like just hurting and yearning, it's just like nothing's clear anymore. Right. I was just like, I remember during this time, it was also like Taylor Swift had released her album Red. And that was the album that got me through so much heartbreak. And as you can see, Taylor Swift has had such an impact on my life in so many ways. But that album for me, like, Like, that's my Taylor album. It helped heal me. I was crying so much through it at the gym, working out crying. Like, just always crying. But anyway, this one YouTube video, this girl said, it's not who you can live with.

It's who you can't live without. Those were the words that made it click for me. Because as Sam and I were dating other people, like, we would always, like, still text each other and, like, ask, like, how it went. Like, so what is that, right? Why would you do that? You do that because you can't live. live without them. And so that's when I knew. And then that's when we got back together. And obviously, we've been together. We got married. Like, ever since, relationship is super

strong. But it was that YouTube video. And I wish I remember who that girl was because she's seriously, like, that was the inflection point that made the change for me. And then I asked Sam if he would take me back. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think love without ego is like true love. You can't love with your ego at stake without all these additional judgment either for yourself or the other person. And it takes a lot of courage. So that story really touches me. I mean, I hope that helps a little bit. It does.

Yeah. For me, when it comes to dating, I'm very grateful for every person I met. I think I learned more through what do I not want? The lesson I learned was like, oh, what do I not want? which is still so valuable. Yes, yes. And I used to be so upset. I'm like,

oh, that was a waste of time. It didn't work out. But then I'm like, actually, I learned so much. It's just collecting data. Yes, it is. Putting out a new video might flop. It might do well. Putting out a new product, it might flop.

It might do well. It's all data collection. It is. It is. How is it out there these days? Because if I had to be on apps and stuff, I don't know if I could survive. How do you do it?

Honestly, it's scary. I should. I don't want to say should. I want to be more present, but there are so many priorities where that is at the bottom of my place. Yeah, you do you first. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very bullish on love and I'm glad that like healthy, supportive relationships like yours exist to really like make me hopeful again. Yeah. It's just like it's such a different time though. Like now like, you know, everyone has like. an IG and a TikTok and like there's just so you have so much more information on people and it's almost like

does that make you more judgmental of people? Whereas like I don't know like back in the day I guess like when Sam and I met all like all we had was like a Facebook profile which not even like it was like nothing but like you kind of just got to know each other but see it's hard

because I think when you're young too like you also have less expectations You also don't know what you want. That is so true. I don't know. I'm just like thinking in my own head, right? Like I'm not in this position, but I feel like being older, I know what I want and what I don't want in like I think a lot of aspects of my life? So that must make it so hard to even want to put effort to like meet someone.

If in your head you're like, oh, well, that doesn't check the boxes. But like what if it does in other ways because you don't know that maybe you like this thing but you didn't know. That is true. I know. So it's like, but then it waste your time and we're getting older and oh my God. It's like so hard. It is. Yeah.

It is. How did you find out what you wanted in a partner? Or was that through time? I think for me, Sam and I just had fun being around each other. And we like couldn't get enough of each other. So like even these days, we're working together 24-7. But I also like don't feel like I have enough time with him, if that makes sense. Because like work Cassie and work Sam are not the same as like husband, Sam and wife Cassie.

And so I think we make each other better people is what it is. He helps me find more fun in life because I'm so intense. But then for him, I remember when we first started dating, I was like, oh, like, you should ask more questions. He's like, why? I don't want to bother people. I'm like, but you should ask more questions. And then just be just the, right? Because he's so like, he's so kind and so, um, mindful, mindful of everybody's feelings. But like, I just like, want to ask questions. I'm very curious. And so just the other day, this was literally last week. I saw him like step out of his normal Sam comfort zone and like ask a question that he's, he normally wouldn't do. And he looked at me. He's like, see, you taught me that. And so like,

we're very aware of the positive and negative impacts that we have on each other. I love that. Yeah. What's one of your favorite memories was Sam? Oh, my God. Our wedding. It was the best night of our lives. It was so much fun. I had so much fun planning the wedding. It was like planning like the funest, most extravagant party for all of our friends and loved ones. and I remember that night just being like so high on life and love and, you know, feeling like a princess too, like in the most beautiful gowns and like marrying the love of my life. It was just seriously like the best. And our friends like constantly would be like, Cassie, Sam, like, can you guys have another wedding?

That was so much fun. Like it was so fun. Like we even like we had a carousel put together and like our friends were just like taking pictures and like all writing the carousel. And we had like this like like like like like lit tent thingy with all these like streamlights. It was just like everything on my Pinterest board like laid out in real life. And it was just like so beautiful to see to see it come to life. It was so fun. Yeah.

And I remember just like shaking and crying like walking down the aisle and like watching him and he's like crying. And it was just like I've been to a lot of weddings. And obviously I've had a wedding myself. And weddings really bring out so many emotions for you and your. family, unfortunately, good and bad. And I'm just very, very lucky that for the most part, our wedding was just so fun and for the most part, drama-free and it still lives in my head as like the highlight of our life. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Knowing you, I know you would go above and beyond with the creativity and every single little detail to make it the exact dream version. Oh my God.

So the original idea before the carousel was I wanted a hot air balloon ride. That is beautiful. For the cocktail hour. For like everybody? Yes. I was like love weddings. But I feel like that part after the ceremony and before the reception, is that right? Yeah.

Just kind of boring, especially if you don't know anyone and it's just like you're lining up for drinks and you like chat, chat, chat. But there should be something to do. So I was like, I want everyone to go on a hot air balloon ride. And then our wedding planner love her. She was like, everything's possible. She's like, Cassie, that's not possible. That's also very unsafe. We cannot tether a hot air balloon ride in the backyard of this house.

And then she's like, how about we do a carousel? And then I thought about it. And it was like, yeah, that could look good in picks. Okay, fine. And then we did the carousel and it was like so fun and did really look great in picks. I love that. Yeah. What a cute memory.

Yeah. If you had no fear, absolutely no fear right now, what would you do? What is one thing? You know, when we started this conversation, I told you about my love for the ocean. I've always had a fascination with the bottom of the ocean. And I just want to see the fishes with the little lights on their head. So if I had no fear and if Ocean Gate didn't happen and the thing didn't implode, maybe I would love to go to the bottom of the ocean. Just say, like, what's down there? That seems fun. So that is my. non-practical answer. I love that.

It's a true adventure. Yeah. I just love the ocean. My biggest fear is, well, I have so many fears of how to die. But one of my biggest fears of dying is plane crashing into the ocean, not dying on impact and just drowning inside the vessel. So hopefully that is not how I get to the bottom of the ocean. Got it.

That is very, very specific. And then there you are. Yeah, very specific fear. I have other specific fears on dying, but we don't need to go into it. I love that. Like, do you just like sometimes think about what are some of the potential ways I could, like, end this life, basically? I don't know. I think I have such an active mind.

Yes. That's why I can't meditate because then I'll just think about, well, how would I, like, how would I, like, not want to die? But I don't know. I think sometimes when I'm just like on the plane and I'm just like, ooh, like what if that happens like what should I do it's so funny no it's not funny but sam and I were on a recent trip and somehow our seats got separated so we weren't together and then this weird thing happened where the plane was about to land and then I noticed the engines like revved up again and it was going up in the air and I was like oh my god what is happening like is this like the pilot's final

route before he decides that he's going to end everything because I was like why did we almost land but he decided to like go up again that is very suspicious and then I was just like, wait, this is so weird. And I said, looking around at everybody. And then nobody was looking because maybe they're used to it. And then I looked at Sam and we're like, oh my God, like if we die, we're supposed to die together. And then like in my head, like, I'm going through a whole scenario. I'm like, okay, if this is actually going to happen, I'm going to get up up under my seat and like, I'm going to run to Sam. We're going to be in the aisle. We're going on each other. And then we're going to die together. So my mind is just like always like,

so what if? Are you scared of death, though? I am scared of how I'm going to die. And I don't want it to be painful. Because when it comes to just physical pain, I'm fine with workout pain because that's like I choose that. But when it comes to things like even like needles, like with IVF and stuff, like I'm so scared because it's like this foreign object entering my body. And so like even though it's like a tiny little needle, my head makes it so much worse because it feels like I had this thing called vasal vagal synchompe and I will pass out at the side

of blood and needles, which has happened before. I took this at home Everlywell test where you just like prick your finger and then you send in your blood so they can tell you what food intolerances you have for collection data points and I love that kind of stuff. But the moment I saw the blood in my finger, I literally like fainted onto the floor in our kitchen. And then at the time Sam and my sister were there and they like were laughing at me and they're like, ha ha, like stop being so dramatic. And then my lips like turned blue and they got really scared and they carried me over to the couch. And then eventually, like, they woke me up and I got orange juice. But like, I literally cannot when it comes to needles, foreign objects and body. Even like I can't watch Game of Thrones because I can't watch that type of violence.

You probably can't watch Tarantino movies. Yeah, I can't. But here's the thing. I love history. I'm a history nerd. And so I also love watching movies about war because it teaches you a lot about the past and conflict and how people either got through it. didn't get through it. And I can't watch those. There are like a lot of scenes. So I'll just like kind of look up. I can hear it, but I can't watch it. But man, I really do love a good war documentary or

war movie. And I'm very much into not just based on a true story, but like I check facts. So after I watch something, I go on my phone. And like for the next week or something, I or two, I'll be listening to podcasts, reading articles, doing all this stuff to fact check to everything that happened because I get really pissed off. I like that about you. I like that about you. I get so pissed off when they, like, combined characters. I'm like, you didn't need to do that. You didn't need to, like, pretend that this all happened for the ease of storytelling. And I get really pissed off.

That's critical thinking right there, a media literacy. We all need some of that. Oh, my God. I wish more people would try harder online. At least, like, make it past the headline. Can people, like, read the content? That's true. Yeah.

That's true. What would you say to freshman year Cassie, who is still on the pre-med route, who is scared of blood but is determined to become a doctor. I would have been a terrible doctor anyway, so I'm glad that didn't work out. Saved a lot of lives by not doing that. Freshman year, Cassie, I feel like the one thing I would have told just Cassie throughout school time is to have more fun and to not be so worried about the grades. Because my entire childhood up until college was always about grades.

Everything was for the grade, for the score. and I feel like I could have just had a lot more fun if I didn't spend all my time, like, freaking out about that. But also, maybe because my parents forced me to be so intense about it, maybe I have this standard of excellence that I have to live up to in my daily life. But then at the same time, does that make my life less fun because I've always held to this standard of excellence? I don't know. I am who I am today, and it's because of my past experiences. So I would just tell Cassie freshman year to just have more fun, follow your heart, because you'll end up where you need to be. I know.

Yeah. And I'm sure she will be so proud. You're living a life beyond her imagination, I bet. It's kind of crazy. I'm so proud of you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for this very insightful conversation and for being so truthful and, like, so raw and vulnerable.

I'm sure, like, a lot of people of all ages, especially. especially young women, would be so inspired when they face similar challenges they know, like, they can master or muster more courage to push through because there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. And you're a true example of how resilience, consistency, and creativity. So thank you so much for everything. Oh, well, thanks for having this honest conversation. I had so much fun. And it really feels like we're just hanging out and talking, but like in a formal setting with the cameras on. But you're so good at what you do. And thank you for making me feel comfortable today and like talking about all this things.

Because I was like, it was a lot. Right. There's a lot of different topics. Highs and lows. I know. Yeah. It's just life. It is life.

It's just like chapters and wins, losses. I wouldn't even call the losses, lessons and growth, which is what I think makes your story so beautiful. and so inspiring to not just myself, I'm sure like everyone feels the same. And thank you so much for showing up for us, despite all the many challenges. Like, I don't know how you pulled through, but I'm so thankful that you're here. Yeah, and you're still showing up. I just, you just have to. When you have to survive, you just do it.

You figured out. Not just survive. I want to see you thrive and I'm going to support you all the way. Oh, thank you, Zoe. Thank you. Yeah. Where can everybody find you? I'm at Bloggalates everywhere.

Everywhere. Yeah. And there is PopFlex. Oh, that's right. And it is Popflex.com. If you guys want to check out some of the stuff on the website, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

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