The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 58 - There Is No Such Thing As A Pro-Abortion Conservative

Episode Date: July 10, 2018

Tomi Lahren insists that conservatives need to let go of the pro-life cause and stop trying to overturn Roe. She's wrong. Any so-called conservative who adopts the Left's position on abortion is wrong. And they aren't actually conservative in any meaningful way. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, it's great to be back. That's a lie, of course. It's not great at all. It's deeply, darkly depressing to be back from vacation. But we did have a good vacation. We're up in New Hampshire. I did quite a lot of fishing. And I did pretty good.

I posted a picture on Facebook of one of the bass that I caught. It was, you know, I'd say around six pounds. I didn't measure it. But I put it up. I put the picture on Facebook for like the four people who might care. It's there so you can go see it. But it was fun. did a lot of fishing and hung out and with the family.

And so now I'm back. And we'll just dive right into it. Tommy Laron gave her final thoughts over the weekend, where she explained that conservatives need to stop with the whole abortion thing. We just need to quit it with the abortion already. We need to stop trying to overturn Roe v. Wade, you know, because she's uncomfortable with the fact that there's been this discussion of overturning Roe v. Wade. now that we're getting Trump's Supreme Court pick.

So she says that we lose on the social issues, and the best thing is to ignore them. And here's a little bit more of what she had to say. She says to use conservatives' newfound power and poll to challenge a decision that, Rovi Wade is the decision, to challenge a decision that, according to a new poll, most American support would be a mistake.

because, of course, we know that something must be good if most Americans supported, because most Americans could never be wrong about anything. In a similar way, when most of the members of a mob decide that it's a good idea to set a cop car on fire, it would be wrong to oppose them because most of them want to do it. So it must be good, and it's wrong to. And that is, if we equate the word wrong with the word unpopular, if those two words are the same now, then, of course, it would be wrong. But if unpopular and wrong are the same, well, then the word wrong has no meaning anymore,

and therefore the word right has no meaning. And so we just live in a morally relativistic world, which is apparently exactly the kind of world that Tommy Lerrin, conservatives like her, want to live in. But we'll get to that in a minute. She continues, this president is winning for the American people on the economy, foreign policy and tax reform, these are areas that benefit all Americans, regardless of religion or social beliefs. I would say that all Americans kind of benefit from being granted the opportunity

to be born. I would say that, you know, I benefited from that. Tommy Lerrin benefited from, I think that Tommy Lerrin would consider it a benefit that she is born as opposed to not being born. I, you know, so, but that's just me. she says if we continue to focus on those things and immigration we'll sail into 2020 with all three government branches in our control yes because immigration is just an issue with with with complete agreement everyone agrees on that right there's um it's not contentious at all everyone has exactly the same view on immigration don't they that's how we get things done for the american people that's how we win now obviously that's how we get things done

for the American people, Tommy Laren is excluding unborn people from the title of American people, which means that we have all been excluded. We are all excluded at some point in our development. She says, let's go after sanctuary cities and push for voter ID laws. We lose when we start messing with social issues. Then later on, she says, do we really want to fight for this, alienate Democrats? Oh yeah, well, you wouldn't want to alienate Democrats. Let's only talk about the things that Democrats agree on, because, of course, immigration is one of those things, right? Do we really want to fight for this? Alienate Democrats, moderates, and libertarians, all to lose in the end anyway. That's a risk I don't think is worth taking. This is the voice of courage that you're hearing right here.

I'm saying this as someone who would personally choose life, but also feels it's not the government's place to dictate. This isn't a black and white issue, and I would never judge anyone in that position. let's be honest, the federal government does few things well, and I believe regulating social issues is an area where it fails. Let the churches, the nonprofits, and the community groups step in, not almighty Uncle Sam. Now, I want to respond to this idea, half-baked though it may be, and I respond only because it is a popular idea among so-called conservatives, especially those in Tommy's age bracket and younger. This idea of, well, let's put the social issues to the side.

It's a pretty common idea. So that's why I think it's worth responding to. And I'm going to leave aside the most obvious flaw with her argument. Well, there are a few very obvious. There's a few things we're going to basically leave aside because I have to choose when I'm breaking this down and dissecting the flaws. I can't dissect all the flaws because I'll be here for 62 hours. I have to just choose a few.

So let's leave aside the more obvious flaws, like the fact that Tommy says, Tommy says, the government shouldn't regulate social issues because the government is incompetent. And then in the next breath, she says that we should focus on immigration, taxes, and foreign policy. Two out of the three of those issues are areas where Tommy wants more government involvement. She says that Almighty Uncle Sam cannot be given the task of defending unborn life, but we can trust it to defend life across the globe, because that's what she's talking about with foreign policy, is going in and defending life across the globe, and we should be able to trust it to defend the borders. Now, I agree on that second proposition. We should be able to trust the government to defend the borders. I'm iffy on the first, that we need the government all over the world defending life everywhere on the globe.

But the fact remains that border hawks and interventionists look kind of ridiculous when they suddenly become libertarians on, quote, social issues. I mean, it's kind of hard to argue. Let's put a wall on the border. Let's put the military down there. I mean, let's just, let's build forts and moats and everything down there. And let's have the government all over the place. But at the same time, the government has no business whatsoever defending babies. No business.

We can't get them anywhere near that. I just, I, that, it's difficult to square. two views, in my opinion. And speaking of social issues, I do have a quick question. What the heck is a social issue? I mean, people like Tommy, what they'll do is they'll use the term social issue as a way of kind of shoving to the side things like abortion. It's just a way of sort of shooing it away. Ah, it's just a social issue. Well, what does that mean? What's a social issue? I can only assume that a social issue is an issue that affects society. A social issue is a societal issue. It is social, right?

Well, on what basis can, I mean, if abortion is a social issue, that isn't immigration a social issue? on what basis can abortion be called a social issue, but something like immigration or taxes are not social issues? I mean, these are all issues that affect society, right? They are social issues. I would submit, in fact, that social issues are the only issues that government should be worried about. So to say that social issues are the only issues that government should not be concerned with is nonsensical. They are precisely the issues that government should be concerned with. Because if something is not a social issue, then that must mean that it is a private and personal issue. Now, I know that when people say social issue, what they really mean to say is those are private

and personal, but then maybe you should say that because you're using language that makes no sense. it is my position that abortion is in fact a social issue in that it affects society it affects everybody so obviously the government should be involved in it if you're saying the government shouldn't be involved in it because it doesn't affect everybody and it's personal then it's not a social issue you see but let's put all that to the side um i have i have three main points of contention with Tommy on this issue and with so many other people who make us the same kind of case. Number one, Tommy says that we need to get back to focusing on the economy, you know, because

abortion is, it just isn't an issue that people care about that much. And this, again, is a common sentiment among a certain set of conservative, especially the the self-appointed conservative spokespeople. This is a point that you'll hear a lot. And every time it's articulated, the person articulating it seems to think that they're the first person to ever say this. They seem to think, like Tommy is saying this,

she seems to think that she has said something new and insightful. Like, you know what? Actually, I think we should put socially, social issues to the side and just focus on taxes instead. She doesn't seem to realize that Republicans have been saying this for the last 50 years. This has been standard operating procedure for Republicans in the mainstream for 50 years. Republicans have been ignoring social issues.

You've already gotten what you want. This is what they've already been doing. And, well, let's look at the results. Republicans have basically ignored issues like abortion, and what has been the result? Has it resulted in a culture dominated by conservative ideas? Yeah, we've won some elections. Republicans won in 2016. Great, fantastic.

But the culture, this decision to put socialists, issues to the side and to basically punt on them and to say, well, the liberals can have those, they're not important. Has that worked out? Or has it created a culture that is completely utterly dominated by the leftist ideas? And has it, in fact, created entire generations that are almost entirely owned by these ideas? I think it's been the latter. So when it's suggested that Republicans are focusing too much on abortion, I could only say that that's wrong because Republicans focus hardly at all on abortion. So I really have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, really, this constant complaint, oh, let's stop talking about abortion.

Who, who, let me ask you this. Seriously, can you name for me one single Republican politician on the national stage, who talks about abortion a lot. Just one. Give me one of all the Republican politicians that have been on the national stage or are on the national stage right now. Can you name one for me

who you would say focuses really intensely and consistently on this issue? I mean, guys like Cruz, Rubio, Mike Lee, yeah, they're pro-life. When the issue comes up, they will say relatively forceful, things about it. But those guys don't, two of those guys were campaigning for president in 2016. They weren't campaigning on abortion. They weren't bringing it up left and right.

They rarely brought it up. Again, when it came up at a debate or something and it was talked about for two and a half minutes, they said the right things about it, which is great. And I do believe that those guys are legitimately pro-like. But my point is, if those guys are the guys, that you would point to and say, well, they're the most focused on abortion? Well, that tells you something because they're hardly focused on it. They were much more likely to talk about immigration, foreign policy, taxes, so on and so forth. No Republican politician goes out of his way to talk about abortion. So who exactly is focused on this issue? If you're noticing that, well, Republican politicians don't talk about it.

You know, in the mainstream, Republicans in the mainstream don't talk about it. But it seems like this issue comes up a lot. Well, who is bringing it up? Who's focused on it? Well, the grassroots, the people, regular Americans, they're the ones who are focused on it. So when you say that we shouldn't focus on abortion,

because no one cares about it, what you're really saying is the people shouldn't focus on abortion because the people don't care about it. But the fact that they are focused on it seems to indicate that they do care about it. You see? And it kind of makes sense because here's the reality. Issues like abortion, the so-called social issues, they are the issues that drive and motivate people far more than taxes and foreign policies. Republicans have been trying to win the culture through taxes and foreign policy immigration for decades, and they failed miserably. That's because people don't actually care that much about something like taxes. Did you know that? People actually don't care about taxes that much. I mean, people should care about taxes a lot more than they do. But the fact is very clear that people do not care about taxes. about it that much. Because if they did, if taxes were really a primary issue for most Americans, then there would have been a full-scale violent revolution years ago. Our founding fathers

revolted. They had a revolution spurred at least significantly by taxation, by things like taxes on tea. Well, we are getting absolutely fleeced by taxes. Our, you know, the taxation that we suffer under right now is is is is is is is astronomically higher is so much worse than what the founding fathers dealt with okay they wouldn't even tolerate a tax on tea we we have taxes on tea and we also have taxes on literally everything else everything you buy everything you do in some way is tax and even if you're just driving down the road you could still be pulled over and given a you know a speeding ticket, which is really just being handed out for no other reason than as a secondary form of taxation for your local town. So you're just getting, you're getting, you're getting

taxed at your home, you're getting taxed at the grocery store, you're getting taxed on the way to the grocery store, you're getting taxed everywhere. If people actually cared about this, if this was actually an issue that people cared about as much as Tommy claims they care about it, then there would be riots in the street over, but as it happen over it, but as it happens, most people don't care. They just kind of pay their taxes, or they let their taxes be paid for them, rather, through the withholding system. And they just sit back and they complain about it sometimes. But most of the time, they're just not thinking about it. That's the reality. People say they care about it. And if you were to give them a survey and ask them, what are the things you care about? They may list taxes as one of those things. But, you know, action. speak louder than words. Look at how people behave, how they vote, how they operate. It's pretty clear that people don't care that much about tax. They say they do, but they don't. Foreign policy? I mean, give me a break. You really think the average American is sitting around worried

about foreign policy? Get 100 Americans into a room. I'd be surprised if you could find even five of them who could tell you their own views on foreign policy. policy. I mean, could give you more than like two sentences on their views on foreign policy. Foreign policy. I mean, you really think that millions of Americans are streaming to the polls around election time with foreign policy as the thing at the top of their mind? No. Even something like immigration. Now, people do care about immigration. And by the way, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't care about these things. We should care about them. I'm just saying that people don't really that much. Something like immigration. People do care about immigration. But, well, I put it

this way. The March for Life, every year annually, for decades, the March for Life can draw three, four, five hundred thousand people. Okay? The March for Life can easily draw half a million people or more. Every year, in the middle of winter, when a it's 27 degrees outside and you're and you're standing in the you're standing in the in the sleet or the snow or the wind for hours and it can still draw hundreds of thousands of people every year and this is without any promotion from the mainstream mainstream media ignores it even even fox news basically ignores it this is not with you know guys like rush limbaugh getting up there and promoting it and driving ben sean hannity driving people out to it this is with all

those guys basically ignoring it. It's entirely grassroots and it gets half a million people every year. Now, I'd be surprised, even if you got Fox News on the case, if you got Rush Limbaugh on the case, if you got Sean Hannity on the case, you got everybody on the case promoting a march to protect our borders, a march in favor of stricter immigration law. I'd be surprised if you got 10,000 people to it. But let me tell you something, you aren't getting 100,000. You aren't getting anywhere close to that, and you know it. No, it's abortion that draws that kind of attention. And why is that? Well, let's go to point number two. It makes sense that people are so focused on this. You know, and that's because pro-lifers are either right or wrong.

about abortion, right? I mean, it's, I'm a pro-lifer. You know what my position is on the subject. I'm either right or I'm wrong. I can't be right and wrong. I mean, it's like I've taken a very absolute position. So, I'll just use myself, okay? If I am right, then actual human beings are being killed by the thousands every day, systematically and legally, in a moment. America. And 60 million actual human beings have been slaughtered systematically, legally, in buildings that are set up specifically for the purpose in America over the last few decades. So if I'm right, if pro-lifers are right, then abortion is not just a Holocaust, but it is by far the worst Holocaust that the world has ever seen.

The numbers tell the whole story. If pro-lifers are right about abortion, that abortion is not just bad, it is the worst thing in the world, hands down, and second place is not even close. So we're either wrong or we're right. Either this is the mass slaughter of actual human person, or it isn't. And if it is, then it's the most important issue in the world.

What could possibly be more important? And that's why this issue generates so much attention. That's why people care about it. It's a matter of life and death. It is literally a matter of life and death. And it's an issue that gets, it cuts through everything and it gets right down to the heart of the matter. It gets right down to the heart of what you believe about life.

It gets down to your priorities, your basic fundamental philosophy of life. And that's how you motivate people. That's how you really get their attention. That's how you can get 500,000 people to show up in D.C. and march through the snow. That's how you can do it, is with an issue of life and death. is when it's a moral issue, it's an ethical issue. It is a, you're saying this is an atrocity that is happening around us. It must come to an end.

That's how you get people motivated, not by saying, well, the tax rate is this, but it should really be this. Now, that's important, but people aren't going to, most people are going to say, okay, yeah, I mean, sure, I agree with you. That'd be fine. But we can grab them by the collar and say, people are, children are dying. Look around you. We have to do something about this. Well, when you say that to someone, then they have to make a choice. They have to, they can agree with you.

They can say, oh my gosh, you're right. I mean, I've got a, this has to be a major focus of my life now to put an end to this. I can't continue along while this is happening and pretend it's not happening. I mean, this is so important. So they could respond to you that way. Or they could recoil. They could go, they could flee to the other extreme. And they could say, all those aren't people.

And if the unborn humans are not people, if they're not human at all, if they're just essentially cancerous lumps, you know, lifeless cancerous lumps, then the pro-life position is, I guess it really is oppressive, right? Because in that case, women are really trying to undergo a medical procedure to have this lifeless mass extracted from them. And we're trying to convince them not that we're even, we even want to. them to be legally prevented from undergoing that. And so it's oppressive. We're trying to oppress them. And so you could respond that way and go to the other students, say, oh, you're oppressing.

But it makes no sense to go to the middle. And I know that there are a lot of people who try to find the middle, but the point I'm making is that there is no middle ground. These are cowards who are trying to find a middle ground where it doesn't exist. If we are right about this, then this is the most important thing in the world and everybody should be focused. If we're wrong, then we are oppressive bullies and you should be, you should be viciously opposed to us. But what you can't do is just kind of like float in the middle

and say, well, you know, maybe either way. It takes a certain intellectual effort, you know, to stay in that middle area. I don't mean intellectual effort like in a good way. I mean, you really have to try to block out of your mind the reality of the issue. You've got to put on the blinders so that you can stay firmly in the middle. But the issue itself naturally provokes a strong reaction one way or another. Because it gets down to the core of a person.

What do you believe about life? and the real question that pro-lifers are posing to people is, do you believe that life is sacred? Because the sacredness of life, that's the kind of thing that motivates someone. People are willing to die to defend the sacredness of life. That's how much they believe in it. Immigration is a really important issue.

Very few people would die to defend their friends. position on immigration policy, but about the sacredness of life, about defending human life that is being directly systematically slaughtered, that's the kind of thing people are. They will give their life to that. Third thing, you cannot be a pro-abortion conservative. Because to be pro-abortion is to reject, it's to do two things. If you're pro-abortion, then necessarily, and that is when I say pro-abortion, meaning you are in favor of abortion being legal. And so Tommy is pro-abortion.

And what I'm saying about Tommy, I'm sure she's a nice person. She's not by any means conservative in the slightest. She is a liberal. She is a full-on leftist, extreme leftist. She has taken an extreme liberal view. and in so doing she has accepted and all the so-called conservatives who are in her camp they have all accepted two propositions necessarily one they have accepted the proposition that human life is not has no inherent dignity okay it has no intrinsic innate inherent

I mean all these words are synonym it has no intrinsic dignity Because in order for something to have something, in order for, you know, a thing, an entity, to possess a certain quality intrinsically, it means that it must possess that quality all along. From the first moment that it is an entity, from the first moment that it exists physically as a physical being in the physical world, it must possess this quality. If it does not, then it does not possess that quality intrinsically. Now, you could have a entity that comes into being and then over time acquires certain qualities, but all of those qualities that it acquires over time, it cannot be said to possess intrinsically. And so if it should be legal to kill unborn humans, then what you're clearly saying is that unborn humans do not have dignity. They do not have the full human dignity and worth and value that you and I have.

But if they don't have it in the womb, that means that we didn't have it in the womb, which means that we have not always had that value worth and dignity, which means that we don't possess it intrinsically. It's not a part of our human nature. It's something that somewhere along the line you acquire. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft. I thought it was safe. If that happens, LifeLock gives you a U.S.-based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims, your agent handles it all. In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed, pour your money back.

Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash Spotify. Terms apply. So if you accept the pro-abortion position, then you reject the intrinsic value worth dignity of human life, which is an incredible extreme position and also deranged, demented, and insane, in my opinion. The second proposition that you must accept in order to be pro-abortion is that moral truth is not objective. And this especially is the case for people like Tommy, people that are in the middle who say, well, I'm personally opposed to it, but, you know, it's people got to make their own decision. So what you're saying is, you know, it's wrong for me.

I consider it wrong, but it's not necessarily wrong for her. And so what you're saying is that this moral truth is not objective. It's just kind of up to the individual to decide. But if any moral truth is not objective, especially a moral truth dealing with life and death, If that is not objective, then it must mean that moral truth itself is not objective, that all moral truths are not objective. If the moral truth of whether or not it's okay to kill a human being, if that is not an objective matter, then which moral truth could be objective, if that doesn't qualify.

So in order to be pro-abortion, you have to be a moral resolution. you have to be a moral relativist and you have to be a materialist, which is to say that there's no value in human life that we're all just material, right? But materialism and moral relativism, those are the two foundational pillars of modern leftism.

That's their whole point. That's everything. They are materialists and they are moralists, and they are moral relativist. That's everything they believe springs from that fountain, from that toxic, ugly, algae-filled fountain, that smelly sewage fountain. That's everything springs from that,

from materialism and moral relativism. So if you've agreed with them on those two points, then you've agreed with them on everything. Your disagreements are irrelevant. They're just, they're frivolous. You've given them everything. You have given them the universe. Their version of the universe,

the universe where moral truth is not objective, and human life is nothing but material and has no value. You've given that to them. You've given them the entire world, the universe, reality. You've handed everything to them. And now you're trying to carve out a little chunk here. Yeah, you can have the universe, but I'm going to stand my ground on immigration.

on what basis? You've said that they're correct about these two fundamental foundational things. How can you then disagree with them on something like immigration? And what is the foundation for your disagreement? Take something like gun rights. You can say, well, yeah, they're right about abortion,

but don't take my guns. Well, but hold on a second. You just agree that human life has no real value, so why do you have a right to a gun? The whole reason why you have your right to your guns is that you need the guns to protect your life. I mean, a gun itself has no value on its own. The only value in a gun is that it can protect, preserve, and sustain human life. It can sustain it by, you know, you can go out and hunt and kill animals, okay? So it has value there.

and it has value because it can protect human life. But you see that the value of the gun is hinged on the value of human life. If human life has no value, then the gun is just a toy. And it's a dangerous toy at that. And so we should ban it. You know what? If human life has no value, then yeah, let's ban all the guns. I mean, because why not?

Why should you have a gun? Why do you have a right to your gun? Your life is meaningless. And if somebody wants to kill you, then, I mean, whatever, fine, they should kill you. There's no value in your life. You're nothing. So you really have to choose. What I would say to Tommy and all conservatives in her category is make up your mind.

I mean, are they wrong or are they right? And forget about them for a minute, but what about you? What do you really believe? Who are you? What are you? What do you actually believe? deep down in your soul. Don't tell me about issues. Don't tell me about Trump. Okay, don't tell me what deep down in your soul. What do you believe about life? What are your core principles and values that animate and motivate you as a person? Figure out what those actually are.

Because once you know those, you're going to see that it's really impossible for you to stay out this in-between ground that you've tried to find. Nobody who's really in touch with their own values and their own principles could ever be floating in the middle there. So figure out who you are and what you believe, and then take it from there. And if you discover that, you know what? Yeah, actually the left, I basically agree with them on the most important thing. I'm basically a leftist, and that's who I am. And if that's what you discover, then, you know, you have every right to it. But be honest with yourself

and be honest with everybody else. That's my request, and that is my invitation as well. Thanks for watching, everybody. Thanks for listening. Godspeed.