The McShay Show - An Indiana-Ohio State Deep Dive. Plus: Jets Distress and Best Bets With Stugotz

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

For the first time in program history, the guys are joined by the one and only Stugotz! The three mensches talk Jets dysfunction, weekend football picks, and how Stugotz “wrote” his new book, ‘Stugotz’s Personal Record Book.’ Then, Todd and Steve dive deep into Indiana–Ohio State tape (featuring the debut of Muench’s Trenches 2.0) and highlight the keys to the game for each team. To wrap the show, they preview the rest of the college football slate with Where the Scouts Will Be and That’s Muh-Guy before closing with Todd’s foodie guide to Columbus. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (0:50) Stugotz Joins the Show! (1:05) Reaction to the Jets Firing GM Joe Douglas (4:25) What's next for the Jets? (11:50) What would Stu give up for a Jets SB? (15:15) Stugotz's Picks for CFB Week 13 & NFL Week 12 (23:55) Checkout "Stugotz's Personal Record Book: The Real Winners and Losers in Sports" (32:55) Week 13 Preview: (5) Indiana vs. (2) Ohio State [-13.5] (43:30) Muench's Trenches: Indiana vs. Ohio State Line Breakdown (51:00) Betting Matchup: (5) Indiana vs. (2) Ohio State [-13.5] (57:10) Todd's Week 13 CFB Picks (59:20) "That's Muh-Guy!" Week 13 Picks (59:40) Muench’s Guy: Aireontae Ersery (OT - Minnesota) (1:01:25) Todd’s Guy: Cam'Ron Silmon-Craig (Safety - Colorado) (1:05:25) Where are the Scouts this week? (1:09:45) Where would Todd Scout this week? (1:10:20) Scouting Columbus, Ohio (1:25:10) Join our Live Show on Saturday Night Reacting to Week 13! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench and Jon “Stugotz” Weiner Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is Indiana the most annoying team in the country? We preview the Big Ten clash of number five Hoosiers versus number two Ohio State. Then we've got Mench's trenches 2.0. The reboot will explain. It's Thursday, so we also have our staple. That's my guy, followed by where are the scouts this week? And I can tell you, they're kind of off the beaten path. But my tailgating experience, it's not.

And the one and only Stu Gatz makes his debut on the McShay show. A couple of munches cutting it up. That's the spirit Stevie boy. It's week 13 in college football, week 12 in the NFL. And how many days left until the NFL draft? 154. Mets you good? I'm good, man.

All right, let's strike up that band. All right. We don't even need a special intro here. I'm telling you, we started this McShay show, right? A month ago. And I've been waiting for this moment since the day we started. I grew up in Swampscott, Massachusetts, right? Tiny little town, affectionately known as a Jewish fisherman's village, okay?

You know, I grew up with like Dave Portnoy. We all know what he's done with Barstool. A lot of great Jewish friends. Todd Klein now just became president of Chelsea, the Chelsea Club. Congratulations, Klein. My other good friend, Jason Kalishman. It just became the superintendent of schools in Swampscott. So I'm keen on the Yiddish, right?

And I love every time, Stugat's, Scots is like, eh, it's a couple menses cutting it up. And every time he says it, I think I got a mench too. And now we got Steve Mench with another Mench, just a couple munches cutting it up. Welcome in Stugat. Thank you. I need another Mench.

So it's funny because Todd, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. I'm happy that you guys have got the show off the ground. You guys are going. You're going strong. I did not like that one week. I got to be honest with you. There was a week there where you guys were ranking ahead of us.

And I hate that shit, man, because I'm super competitive. And as much as I love you and as much as I love Mesh, I was super concerned because I'm like, McShay is kicking our answer, man. Rissillo told me early on, and that's the competitor in the macho and in Rissillo, you know, all the weight room stuff for him. He told me early on, don't get, you know, don't get inflated. It's just an algorithm when you first start. You'll come back down to early.

And he's been right. Sure lived. We're still in the top 15, but we're not up at number number one or two. So I appreciate it. I was saying. I know what he's talking about. I know the algorithms. And yet I still get concerned whenever a podcast gets launched and they launch right ahead of us.

It's like it's just concerning to me. How long are they going to hold that? Well, we appreciate your undying support. First of all, you are here. Man, this gives you a peak into Stugat's right. I shoot a note like, hey, just so I'm saying it properly. what do you want me to say in terms of your book? He's like, Stu Gott's personal record book,

the real winners and losers in sports. That's the title of his new book, and we're all excited about it. But then he goes on to write to me in a text. There it is. You can see. Yeah, there you go. He goes on to write to be currently number one in sports essays on Amazon.

A head of Greenie and Stephen A. Comes out next Tuesday. I mean, just the absolute best. It was a total unnecessary fact that I threw in there. in that text that Tom McShag. But Dan and I laugh all the time because Stephen A and Greeney, they take writing seriously. They're writers and they take it seriously. And it must infuriate them, that some guys do gods is ahead of them because they put a lot of thought and effort to their book.

And I promise you, I did not. Yeah, we'll get back to your book in a little bit. I've got a couple of comments and thoughts. I did want to start here, though. It is timely. We were going to have you on this week regardless. but it is timely. Yeah.

Unfortunately, our good friends, Steve, I'm not sure you're aware. Steve and I both played at University of Richmond with Joe Douglas. So we obviously have a personal relationship with Joe and was communicating with him even up to this morning. And as I said the other day, Joe will be just fine. And he's doing just fine. Obviously, this is not how Joe intended it. Joe poured his life into it.

His family poured everything into it, supporting him. And the goal was obviously to, to, hoist the Lombardi one day, right? And he certainly brought in a lot of talent. Like every general manager, there were a couple misses. But you can't really argue with what he did from a draft standpoint and from a talent standpoint and what's on that field right now. I'm just curious as a lifelong suffering Jets fan, when you get the news early this week, I think it was on Tuesday. What was your response to a general manager? You don't see this very often. A general manager getting fired in the middle of the season during a bite week.

So I'm thinking kind of along the lines of what you just said, Todd. I'm like, this is a guy who created a roster that was good enough that Aaron Rogers in his final chapter decided, hey, I'm going to go from Green Bay to one of the worst franchises in the NFL historically. And so Joe Douglas from that aspect, through the draft, did a very good job when you consider winning Williams and Garrett Wilson and Bruce Hall and Saus Gardner and other guys like that. He put together a good enough roster that Aaron Rogers

wanted to go there. And so that's a positive. But as you know, it's a bottom line industry. And his record has been atrocious as the Jets general manager. The one position he couldn't get right and he couldn't figure out and he tried to do it with Aaron Rogers towards the end was the quarterback position. everything else he ace, but he did not ace that position. And when the owner comes up, and by the way, I did not mind this, the reporting on this, when Woody Johnson after week four is seeing what the fans are seeing in Aaron Rogers,

which is this is not the same guy. Maybe he got injured in week two. He's not playing to the level we expected. And he suggests because he has this talented roster, maybe Tyrod Taylor would be a better option at this stage of the season. him and he is rejected, I kind of understand why Joe Douglas is gone. They should not be catering to Aaron Rogers. I think when the owner comes in and says that, it's not a bad thought.

Tyrod Taylor probably would have won more football games for the Jets than Aaron Rogers this year. That's how bad Aaron has been. So it's just interesting. You have a guy who on one side did everything right. The roster is great. It's the most talented roster. I think the Jets have ever had 40 years of being a Jets fan. But on the other side, he just couldn't get the quarterback thing right.

And that's the biggest position. You have to get that right. You don't get it right. The rest of your team doesn't matter. Yeah, it was kind of a snake bit with Rogers getting hurt last year, I feel like, and then not coming back as the same player. So I think it's interesting that you're okay with Woody Johnson going in and starting to kind of interfere with who's going to play and who's not going to play.

I would think that, you know, as a fan of, you know, my own team, I would not want the owner walking in and saying, we're going to play this guy or not that guy. So I always criticize Woody Johnson for not taking this thing. too seriously and not seeing what it is the fans are seeing. But I'm telling you, I was having that same discussion with my friends who are all jet fans. Hey, is Tyrod. Now, listen, it's a ridiculous thing to set. But Aaron Rogers is 40 coming off in Achilles there. Is Tyra Taylor a better option than Aaron Rogers? I don't, I don't blame Woody for, he's the owner. He owns the team. When they get

paychecks every two weeks, it's signed by Woody Johnson. That's an impossible situation, though, man. I know. And I was at the Patriots. Jets game. I told you before I was going to that game. I know. And I watched that game. And my takeaway was, okay, you ask yourself, okay, what's the problem? There were two problems stood out to me. Like defensively, they just can't tackle. And they're not physical in the interior. They're just like they struggled to tackle. And offensively, it felt like every play was a struggle and there was a cap on what they could do because of Aaron Rogers. So I saw it too,

And Tyrod comes in with some of them with mobility, kind of like could light a little bit of a spark for a week or two. I could see that. Let Aaron rest get. But I think Joe and more importantly, probably the coaching staff and people in the organization realize like the fucking firestorm that would create, man. Aaron Rogers lost his mind with Green Bay when they drafted a quarterback to the future.

Can you imagine they bench him? Yes. But Todd, you can not allow. your organization be run that way. Like that's the problem. I hear you. And mentioned me to a great point. This was all supposed to be last year.

He tore his Achilles. There's nothing that Joe Douglas could do about that. So now, but now what you have, what you're left with is a 40-year-old coming off a tournick hilly's, which is very difficult to get over in your 20s, let alone your 40s.

And so when you have an owner walking in and saying, hey, I think this guy gives us a better chance to win, you cannot let the inmates run the asylum, of Aaron's been running that place for far too long. You can't say, hey, I don't want to offend Aaron Rogers. Oh, that will rub Aaron the wrong way. Who the hell cares? What is Aaron Rogers ever done for the Jets that we're so concerned about Aaron Rogers' feeling?

It's absurd. I love it. I don't. Yeah. It's true. I don't have a problem with entertaining that conversation. I also, but I do have a problem with a lot of the other meddling, you know, I mean, and we don't need to get into the nitty gritty, but some of the reporting the discomfort.

out this week. And I'm, unfortunately, I know some, some of the behind the scene stories and everything else. But just if you're trusting the reporting, you know, the decisions, kind of, if you're going to handcuff your general manager, then you probably should have fired him at that point, you know? Right. And yeah, I don't like the medicine owner either, but Woody, this is not typical, I don't think, of Woody. But for him to do this in this particular, spot, it made sense to me. I understood why it is he was doing it. And I am actually surprised. I am shocked that Joe Douglas's response and the coaching staff's response was, well, Aaron's not going to take that well. Who the hell cares? I mean, at this point, why would we care how Aaron Rogers is

going to take anything? He's not playing well. He's not playing well. And the other thing we criticized the Jets for last year, Todd, if you guys remember, when Aaron went down, they didn't have a backup plan. This year, they went out of their way to have a backup plan. And And so Woody, the owner, having the audacity to walk into his office and say, hey, maybe that guy that we got is the backup is the better option. I'm okay with it. I'm surprised they catered to Aaron Roger. I've spent my career at ESPN and, you know, you were there for a while as well, dealing with a lot of intelligent people who are Jets fans. Like Lee Fitting, Seth Markman, executives at the ESPN at the time when I was there, yourself, Greenie, you know, like the list goes on.

So I felt like more so than any other organization, I'm dealing with intelligent fans. And like there's always that lunatic fringe, right? But there's a lot of intelligent Jets fans who are in the know in certain areas. So I'm curious as one of those fans. And I use, you know, use the term intelligent loosely. I appreciate you. But no, but seriously, like you've lived this thing, your whole life. What's next?

Like what do you want to see for the Jets? You don't have your head coach. You don't have your general manager who put together this talented roster. Aaron Rogers is not likely to come back. So, like, what's next for the Jets? It's a great question. Being a Jet fan is being part of a tortured fan base. I've been a Jet fan for 40 years.

I have not seen my team play in the Super Bowl. We have been close. Like, every team stumbles into some sort of, like, three-year, four-year stretch where their team is relevant. And we had it with Mark Sanchez, back-to-back AFC championship games. Right. And it went either.

They didn't make it to a Super Bowl. We had it back in 97. They were up 10, 3 and a half. I think in Denver, Testaverdi was the quarterback, Kisham played. They didn't make it then. I think we had it back in 84 with the Dolphins. Dodd Shula soaked the field the entire night, put the sprinklers on, slow down the track. The Jets ended up.

I still haven't been forgiven Chula for that. The Jets didn't make it then. What do I want next? stability. I want to stop worrying every year. New head coach, new GM, new quarterback, and I think the only guy, now I don't think he would take the job, but it be someone like this, I just want stability. I want the person in charge making smart football decisions. I want the person in charge not to sign Aaron Rogers, not to sign Jordan Love in 15 years when he's well past his pride. I want that guy to be a guy that's going to make smart decisions that knows the game and that could hopefully get us to

Super Bowl. I just want stability. That's what I want. So is Belichick the name? Maybe. Is it Mike Rable? I don't know. But then I'll swing the other way because this is what Jet fans do because we don't know exactly what our team needs because nothing has worked. The big swings on Aaron Rogers, they have it work. The stability with Bill Farsells, it hasn't worked, okay? I'll swing the other way to tell you, I'd also be okay if Dion and Shador Sanders came to New York. I'm okay with that. But if you're asking me, stability is something that's usually important. I take Rex Ryan at this point, Todd. Like, I would go back to Rex Ryan at this point.

It was the greatest six-year stretch of my life. I mean, you sound like a desperate man. We are. I am. Yes, I speak on behalf of all jet fans, men. Yeah. What would you give up for a Jet Super Bowl? What would you trade in your life?

Like a body part? No, I mean, would you give up a body part? I would you give a thumb up I would not give up golf for a year. It depends what body part we're talking about. Are we talking about like, is it a whole arm? Is it from the elbow down?

Is it just a single digit? Like, are we talking to? What about it? Like a pinky. Yeah, pinkie. Let's go a pinky. I would. I would give a pinky match.

I would let you chop it off if the jet just stops in the Super Bowl. Yes. I don't know if I have the stomach for it, but maybe we can do it. Okay. All right. The other thing that Stigat's text to me is that, because I told him, I want to talk about the Jets and I want your picks because, you know, you never know where he is on his picks. I wanted to talk about a couple of college games.

He also texted me that I said, do you want to give me some of your college picks? And he wrote back, you might want to go NFL picks since I'm a documented 49, 29 and 2. Listen, man, I have to care about that stuff now. I'm in a free agent year, contract year, and I'm having a killer season, man. Well, at least you get a number one selling book. Yeah. Give me some picks, man. Give me some picks.

We're heading into week 13 in college football, week 12 in the NFL. Make us some money, bud. Okay. I'll try to make you some money. You want the college or you want the NFL? Which one do you want? Give us a couple of college. We do a lot of college here.

I'll give you some of my picks as well. But then, but then like it seems like you're on real heater. I am on a heater. I am on a heater. So I think Indiana, like they have the 106 worst schedule in the easiest schedule in the country. They're playing Ohio State this weekend. They're getting 13 points. I don't think Indiana is very good.

I think they'll get exposed this weekend, guys. I think Ohio State will win that game. They'll win it. Why are you showing me your phone? I don't know why. I just hold things. I'm ADHD, you know me. Like, I'm just all over the place.

I'm scattered. And I had the picture on my phone. Now I found them on my computer and I'm making a point. I've got a point at someone. So what I'm thinking here is Ohio State's going to win by four touchdowns. They win by 28 points. I'm not buying that Indiana team. Yeah, they haven't played any.

Not even close. Not even close. Indiana will be out of the playoff. Ohio State will be in. The other game I like in college is Colorado minus three. They're at Kansas. Kansas has played better lately. Colorado was also played better lately.

I just think Colorado's too talented. I think they have the playoffs kind of like in there, in their, you know, right down the road. They can see it. Right. And so I think Colorado wins that game by. 13 points on the road. In the NFL, the game that I love the most and how are you got to get your pens and paper ready, folks. You really should. The game I love the most, we'll talk. I'm going to actually write these down. I'm writing these down. I'm literally writing them down. You should. The dolphins are

minus seven at home. The Patriots are good. The Patriots don't want to win. They know they're smart team. Okay. They have good losses. They're close, but they don't win because why would you want to win at this stage in the season to be the Patriot? The Dolphins are a totally different team. when Tua is their quarterback, everyone is now seen just how valuable Tua is to that team. They almost beat Buffalo and Buffalo, impressive last week. So I think the Dolphins win that game at home,

and they do so by 17 points at cover the spread. 17. Yes, yes. It's the Patriot stuff. You do not shy away from the big scores. I do not. Like, the Dolphins at home, when that quarterback is healthy,

when Waddle, Tareke Hill, or right, and Tariq's not right, but he's playing better because Tua is simply back. Jonu Smith's become a big part of the offense. That offense, if you remember, went healthy at home, they would put up 42, 49, 50 points on a lot of teams, and I think they'll do that this weekend to the Patriots. The offense have a lot to play for.

The Patriots don't have anything to play. I love that running back, A-Chane, too. He's a good player. Yeah, he's really good. They're good. You want some more NFL picks? I'm going to eat her. Yeah.

Give me one or two more. I'll give you one or two more. I like the Packers. Minus 2 and a half. San Francisco is banged up. Packers need the game. I think the Packers win that game. They win by seven points over San Francisco.

And the other game that I like a lot here is the Eagles minus three at the Rams. Eagles is so funny. You're a sucker. I have plenty of onion dogs, man. I have the Chargers plus three against the Ravens. But I do like the Eagles. And here's the funny thing. I'm just going to get your point and get your thoughts on this.

Nick Siriani is in his fourth year as the Eagles had coach. The first three years, he took his team to the playoffs. one year went to the Super Bowl was a play away from beating Patrick Mahal. And now his team, I think, is eight and two. Nick Siriani, the idea that Philadelphia Eagle fans want to fire that coach, even after wins, is patly absurd. I'm not certain he shouldn't be the coach of the year, considering all the shit he's had to go through in terms of the fans. He might be the coach of the year. And I will tell you this right now, Todd, the four-year run that this Eagles team is on is all I'm looking for for the Jets.

So if they want to get rid of Siriani, that's the guy I want New York, okay? We'll try to get Howie Roseman, too. Yeah, well, he's pretty good. He's pretty good. I have never, guys, this coach has had an incredible run in a city that is, you know, they care about the football, they care about the Eagles. I give him credit, man, because like they were. They were split in the last year.

He's a different cat. He doesn't know how to handle like the PR of the whole thing. let's put it that way. Right. But you can't argue with like the to be able to like that thing was splintered. The offseason reports about how like what, but to be able to to regain control and how, however he's done it relying more on his quarterback and leadership and all. It's been impressive.

It really has. I did not. I thought this team was going to have kind of like a Cowboys ask year this year. Right. And match all I'm saying is I cannot stand spoiled fan bases. Like do you know what the Jetman base would do for the four year run. the Eagles have had have been on and they're continuing it. It doesn't seem like it's going to go away because Jalen Ertz is young. That team is young. They're talented. They have drafted well.

Howie Roseman is probably the top three at his job in the league. Fan bases would kill for what the Eagles have had the last four years. Yeah, we grew up in New England. We know all about the obnoxious fan bases who are spoiled. Yeah, and then New England got spoiled. All right. So you know Stu Gatz from the Dan Lebitardt show with Stugats from God bless football. You know, yeah, you can download those shows, but not, but make sure you download ours first. Yes. And more.

And more often, yes. I want to talk about this book. Here's my take on it, okay? Yep. It's Stugat's personal record book. And I'll admit, I'm a long time fan of the show. I've listened to Dan Lepa Tar with Stugats for a long, long time. I appreciate just the absolute, I mean, mentioned, like, it's kind of similar.

or the guys I grew up with, the guys that were friends with in college, it's kind of this, it's just absurdity, but like you care, but there's just the day-to-day absurdity is what kind of attracts me to it. It's kind of like, you know, it's my home. It's what I know. And so if you follow the show, you understand how absolutely assonine some of Stugats's takes are. Like Kevin, God, yeah, don't hold that.

But he'll like, but he'll stick with him, like, Kevin Durant, you know, he's, he's never one. he's never want to ring yeah but but why is it with this book that like i know how absurd it is i know some of the takes are going to be wild but i still want to have it i still want to like i want it on my coffee table because it's something ridiculous to flip through and show friends and something to like create conversation so there's like some beauty behind all of this behind the insanity of it and i'm just curious like what's the i know it it comes out on um it comes out on on tuesday day next Tuesday, already number one sports essays on Amazon.

I'm just, I'm curious, what has been the reaction? I know you probably had like a soft launch or, you know, other friends and family have read it. What's been the reaction so far? Everyone, surprisingly, they're surprised that I finished the book. Let's start there. Like actually finished the book. I mean, just regards. Yes, I know.

And I don't blame them for being surprised. I have set the bar very low for myself. That's been done by design, Todd, just so you know. When you set the bar very low, you have a better chance of exceeding all the expectations. It's a brilliant stance. That everyone has for you. So it's funny. It was a throwaway line on ESPN radio.

I don't have an actual personal record. Okay. So I was talking about Kevin Durant and how he took the easy path, leaving Oklahoma City and went to Golden State, a team that had already won a title without him. Like, they were doing just fine without Kevin Durant. Now, if you remember the year before Durant left, they were up three, one against Golden State, Oklahoma City was. That was Durant, Westbrook, and those guys. And then they couldn't get it done. And what Durant did is the complete antithesis of what Michael Jordan would have done.

Michael Jordan, when he couldn't get past the Pistons, he went back, he worked harder, they added pieces, they came back, they tried to get. Imagine Michael leaving the Bulls and going to the Pistons. Imagine that. Right. Metry shaking his head. Yeah. It would never happen. No.

Durant did it. Yeah, well, Durant did it. And that's what he did. And so it was a throwaway line. So I said, listen, I don't care how many titles Durant wins with the Golden State Warriors, with Steph Curry, with Clay Thompson, with Draymond Greene. They didn't need him. And really what he stripped us on, selfishly, is seeing Oklahoma City make that climb and come back and try again against Golden State. Because we all agree Kevin Durant is the kind of talent that doesn't need to kind of holly.

around city to city trying to win championships. People should be coming to Kevin Durant, not the other way around. And so I said in my personal record book, I know Kevin Durant won two titles, but in my personal record book, he has won no title because he took the easy path. That is not what sports is all about. He went to a team that was already loaded. He went to a team that had the regular season win record already, and he joined that team and won his two championships there and never one another. So in my personal record book, and this is what I said on ESPN radio, I said, Durant has no ricks. Levitart started laughing. The guys started laughing. Remember Amino hasn't saying, having a personal record book, whether real or not, is one of the greatest

tools in sports radio history, because you can just stick everything under that umbrella. It's undefeated. And so that's what I have done. And so Dan Stanzig, who is, who works at ESPN, was one of my producers back when we were at ESPN. He started transcribing all of my takes because Lord knows I'm not writing a book. And I didn't, I've never wanted to write a book. I cannot sit down long enough to write a book. It wasn't happening. If I wanted to write a book, I would have done it years ago when I was at ESPN, okay?

But Stan Zick, he did not let it go. He liked the concept so much. So he calls me during the pandemic. And he says, hey, guess what? Your personal record book. If you want to do it, it's done. I wrote the book. That's amazing.

I said, you wrote my book? And he said, yeah. He said, yeah, I transcribed all your takes and then he tied it all together. He's a very good writer. And this was a dream of Dan Stansix, who's a very good friend of mine, was to write a book, was to have his name on a book. It was never a dream of mine. My dream was to be at ESPN, ESPN, ESPN, in New York, and doing a lot of the stuff I'm doing now.

I wanted to do this for him. I wanted to do this for me. And of course, I wanted to do it for the money. The book has been received. Yeah, what percentage, this great friend of your, your, your son. Dan Stancing. What percentage are you giving him for? He's got a little bit more than that.

If I had to pie chart the things I just said to you, and in matter of importance, I would say 90% money, 8% me, 2% Stancing, okay? So I have Lomertan, right to follow up, but here's the beautiful thing. And Todd, go appreciate this. When you work at ESPN,

you make a lot of friends, everyone, the talent, at least, very, very close, and people become family to you there. It's how you and I became close, and people support each other there. And so I reached out to Mina Kimes and Tim Kirchin and Scott Van Pelt, because you're right. These takes are absolutely absurd. And so we needed some credibility.

We needed some credible journalists. We needed some people who had, you know, who thought rationally. And we needed them to rebut to some of my takes. So there are chapters in this book by Van Peltz, by Mina Kimes, by Tim Kirsten, by Stan Van Gundy, by Jay Billis, by all the people we worked with at ESPN. And what I told them to do was, hey, it's a blank page. Just take a sledgehammer to me. And oh, did they take a sledgehammer to me?

And they ripped my takes apart. I have Leopard. He wrote the foreword. So we're very excited about it. It's a cool book. It's a fun book. It's easy reading. It's doing very well.

And the last thing I'll say about it is we sent a bunch of copies out to many of the contributors. And I believe it was Sarah Spain saying, reached out to me via text and said, I can't believe you finish the book. I read it. She goes, I'm more shock that it's actually pretty good. It's a good book. Like, I don't know if I had anything to do with it. They're my takes.

But I think what makes me really special and unique is to have all these credible people willing to throw their names on it and willing to write rebuttal. Because that really helped. So it's been a lot of thought. That's amazing. find it on Amazon, go out and buy it, folks. And StooGast's book. How about this?

The website he created. Stugatsbook.com. Let's just get straight to it. That was random house. And by the way, as Lebutton said a million times, it's not just a random house, okay? Random house, okay? Random house published this book. I think that.

No, what? Your wife must be like, how in the world? Well, listen, I mean, again, 92% was the payment. And so my wife's doing just fine. I mean. Yeah. My wife hasn't worked a day in her life, okay? I don't think she had you pegged as a New York Times bestseller, though.

Let's just put it down. Well, I don't know. No one had me pegged as a New York Times best. So we certainly get behind the book. Amazon Stugatsbuk.com is where you go out and get it. And I'll tell you what, like he's known for talking out of both sides of his mouth. He's known for all, you know, everyone likes to attack him. But I will say this mention, I've said it about David Pollock.

I've said it most recently about the bear, Chris Felica. And Stu Gats just touched on it. Like the people you work with become family and you start to lean on them. And when I was let go and the layoffs and everything, like one of the people who reached out to me first was Stugatz. And one of the people I've talked to throughout the process and some of the advice I've gotten right here, Stu Gatz. And so I will always appreciate you for that, my friend. It's been my pleasure. It's a, it's a tricky industry to navigate through.

There are a lot of ups and a lot of downs. We all go through it. We make a lot of sacrifices. We sacrifice a lot of family time in order to do what it is we do. And I don't think people see all that. And so it's great to have support. It's great to have people who can relate to what it is you're going through. So I just try to be there for people as often as I can like Utah.

And I could tell you, like when we left the ESPN, that was a tricky time for us. And there were a lot of people who reached out to me and they were there for me during that time as well. So that's what this should be all about. Unfortunately, in some spots, it's not. But most of the places you find some pretty good people, you know. Well, we'll always appreciate you. Can't wait to have you on again. And I'm sure I'll be jumping on with you with,

it's certainly not with Lebitard because he doesn't talk about the NFL draft. But I'm sure on God bless football. And show us the book one more time. Let's see it. I'm showing you the book. There's a forward by Lebiton. There are some little blurbs on the back here, one by Joe Buck, one by Adam Shepter, Dwight Friedi.

This is really exciting. How I convinced all these people to write a book for me is completely insane, but they did it. Diana Rusini, it's out of control. And Dan Patrick, D.P. wrote a very nice thing about my book. I know. Listen, I've called...

You got them all fooled, brother. Listen, I... Whatever... I had a certain amount of favors left in my life to call in on. I've called them all in for this book, okay? I will not bother anyone else. And McShae, if you're wondering why you don't write anything, I promise you, chapter 11. Next book is all yours, okay?

Chapter 11, perfect. You don't know. That's right where I belong. And now that me and Menture, friends, a couple of mentions coming it up, Menture writing Chapter 14. How about that? Can't wait. Can't wait.

Yes. Yes, that's a binding agreement. Get out of here, Stu Gatz. Good having you, brother. We'll see you soon. All right. I love you, dude. See you.

See you. The McShay show is presented by Fanduel. Get out your game day gear this college football season on Fanduel. Because right now, all customers get a profit boost every college football Saturday, every single Saturday. I got three picks for you, Mitch. I'm not going to get into any detail. I'm just going to give you money.

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What a piece of work, huh? Amazing. You talk about one-of-a-kind, just leaning into who you are. So appreciate Stugat's coming on. I'm sure he appreciates the promotional tool that this was. Exactly. But no, always a lot of fun. I'm sure we'll have studio guys back in certain times. But let's get to it, Munch. We got a huge game this week. You know, talked about number two versus number five, Indiana. We know the strength of schedule 106. We know they've controlled every game they played in, even Michigan, the tightest game they played in.

I want to get into this game specifically. And you and I, it's always going to be about studying the tape and kind of looking, looking at, the personnel, but also like, how is it going to play out? What do we expect to see? Right. I took a deep dive in the last couple of days, a deep dive into Indiana, specifically on the offensive side of the ball. Okay. And with the mindset of how are they going to do it against this defense?

We talked about Ohio State, right? Nine different players with draftable grades. Caleb Downs is probably going to be the earliest draft pick, but it won't be in this class because he's not eligible. It'll be in 2020 sticks. Could be a top seven, top 10 pick at the safety position. He's that special. So you're talking about 10 guys that we can look at right now and say,

are going to do something in the NFL. Indiana, it's not the case. But so I studied Indiana like, what are they going to do? And I really just dug in on Indiana offensively. I'll tell you this. They're fucking annoying. They are like they're just annoying with their with the with like their operation right yeah yeah that's a good word for it they do everything right this probably won't play well in the

Midwest right i just it kind of like it popped in my head but you go back to like the 80s remember like how the american car manufacturers all of a sudden there was like there was Toyota and Honda, right? And all of a sudden they were just by killing us with the fact that they were producing all these cars. And it was like a big thing you see in movies and all the struggles in the Midwest, right? And they rose to prominence not because they had the sexiest cars. They didn't have the most powerful engines. They didn't have the big Ford trucks, right? Right. But they killed us with the efficiency of their factory. And when I watch Indiana, they kill you with the efficiency. of their factory. It's their operation. They do everything right. That's what I just said.

So when I watch them, they block everything up. They catch everything. Those receivers don't drop anything. Most underrated wide receiver core in the country after I went and studied every single target. I think it's the most underrated wide receiver and deep. They're in the right leverage on their routes. They catch contested catches. They're up there with, I think the number one team in the country in terms of contested catches. And they don't have the biggest dudes. Okay, and we'll get back to the receivers. But their backs are in the correct holes.

They hit the holes hard. They protect like absolute maniacs. And Paspero is running backs. They've only as an offense fumbled the ball twice this year. Okay. Their 12th is a team in turnover margin. Okay. And when I look at this offense,

it's a really simple game when you play Frank Signetti football the way the Hoosiers do. Keep it simple, stupid. Right? They kill you with efficiency. And so that's the thing that jumped out to me. It's like you got a quarterback in Rourke who's come in. I think he's got 46 starts. And he's like the captain of the efficiency train, if you will.

Starts right with him. It starts right with him. Doesn't put him in a lot of bad situation. It sets the protections up well. They have a lot of like, you know, the zone read stuff and he makes the right reads. But here's what I also know, while he's smart and he limits mistakes, he can layer the ball. He's deadly accurate, right? He does a great job, like over the linebacker, before the safety, leading receivers.

He does excellent timing with his receivers. Like the back shoulder throws that he makes, the timing that he has with his receivers. Right. Okay. So all those things he does. great but here's what i do know about rourke when you're talking about curtis rourke the quarterback not a big arm no not a threat as a runner no so if you're going to do it without a monster arm if you're not josh allen if you're not lamar jackson if you're not jalen milrow with the

mobility right if you if you're if you're not carson beck with the mobility and the strong arm you better win up here between your ears okay and my goodness he does he doesn't it's frustrating because I was watching I told you when we started this I was watching it from a defensive lens what is Ohio state going to do how are can they just roll out their helmets and their nine draft eligible prospects and their safety who's going to be a top 10 pick in 2026 and Caleb downs and just we're better than you our athletes are better they're faster they're bigger they're stronger we're better and my answer after we're studying the tape is uh-uh really I I I Now, we'll get to the bigger picture in all this.

But I want you to understand, like, they're going to come out and they're going to be an 11 personnel. That's their base. One back, one tight end, three receivers typically, right? More so than not. They pre-snap motion. They're going to make you as a defense declare what you're doing. You in zone, you and man. I think Ohio states should.

They mix it up. Zone and man. We've seen that. We've done deep dive into Ohio State's defensive tape. We both agree their corners are better in press man. that physicality that they have, right? But they're going to make you declare defensively with those pre-stap motions. They're not going to come out.

They're not going to tempo you a lot. Occasionally, they'll mix something in when they need to. But this is not a fast pace. It's the opposite of what we've come to see in college football when it started with Chip Kelly, when it's run 100 plays. Don't care for it in the right play. Run it. It's the opposite.

Let's get to the line. Let's check with me a little bit if we have to. Let's set the protection. Let's see what they're doing. motion guys around, manor zone. Let's run the play on our clock. If Michigan's any indicator or some of the other tougher defenses, they're going to feel, yeah, it's going to be screens.

It's going to be quick game. It's going to be running the ball inside. From a personnel standpoint, I already mentioned, the thing that surprised me the most, we're not talking about elite level receivers, but we're talking about a group that is all damn good. They know the rules. They know where to be. They know their leverages.

They block for you. And they catch every, like, I'm watching the Michigan game. And Elijah Surratt is the big guy. He's their number one receiver. He's at a phenomenal year, 685 catches, 18 yards per catch. He's number 13. He's their bigger receiver, 6-2-209, okay? He had a double move against Michigan.

It wasn't the best double move you've ever seen, but he kind of broke the corner's ankles and goes for a touchdown. But I'm watching five, right? Number five, Kishon Williams, who's got 12. 12 catches 156 the last two weeks is coming on. He catches the ball. His helmet smashes against the ground. He had another catch where on the sideline. There's no way he was in, right?

But dips his toe down at the end. Catching everything, smashes his helmet on the ground. And I'm like, I haven't looked at the injury report. Is he going to be here? Two plays later, he's back on the field. Then I watch Omar Cooper, 22 yards per catch. Little guy, not the biggest guy. Another play, just whack on the side.

sideline, left sideline. And I'm like, he might not become like four or five plays. So like these guys are tough. Yeah. They're in all the right position. And then the running backs seven, I know six, Justice Ellison was kind of the guy coming into the year. They still, they rotate and all that. He's really good hands.

Only 11 catches. It catches the ball well, blocks. They both block really well. And he's a tough runner picks up the yards that are available. But Tyson Lawton, the other guy, 17, he's gotten more carries for a reason. He's got a little bit more juice. Yeah, they got too. So I ain't saying that Indiana's got the personnel to go out and put up big numbers.

But I am saying defensively, my takeaway was Ohio State better be ready for four quarters because what they do is they'll efficiency you to death, Indiana will. They'll drive you crazy because they won't make mistakes. They'll block up their guys. they'll make the right reads. The receivers will make the contested catches. The running backs will hit the holes when they're open and 17's got a little bit more juice, okay?

But then all of a sudden you make one mistake and they'll pop one on you. So it's like this weird dynamic. They're not taking a lot of shots. They're not a big play. They're not tempoing you. They're not going to wear you out that way, but they'll wait for their moment.

They'll wait for their moment. And so I'm fascinated to see this matchup with Ohio State's defense. And are they able to be patient? Are they able to play discipline, gap discipline? Are they sound in the secondary? They're going to be tested in this game in a different way than you would think, not by speed, not by size, not by strength,

but by their discipline and their patience in this game will be really put to the test. Yeah. I mean, the yards per catch, some big numbers there, right? I think that speaks to Rorke's ball placement, puts it right where these guys can create after the catch. It also speaks to the fact that Ohio State's going to have to tackle well after the catch. I will say, and I want to get your take on this, were you concerned with the second half after Rourke

through the interception against Michigan? Because that's my concern. If I'm Ohio State, this is who's a bad interception too. Right. I'm trying to take away his first read. So I'm trying to really take away the inside receiver first. I'm going to crowd the receivers on the outside because I think my corners can match up. And if you can force Rourke to hold on the ball,

Indiana starts to get into trouble because as good as much as, as tough as that offensive line is, as well as they play as a unit, individually, we'll get into this a little bit more. Pass protection is going to break down against the Ohio State Front. We'll get into this a little bit more. And he can't,

we just talked about it. He's not a guy that's going to make a lot of off-platform throws. He's not a guy that's going to, you know, scramble for a lot of, you know, big plays. So to me,

I felt like that was concerning that I thought the, offense kind of tightened up and he wasn't as confident after that interception. His ball placement, I put in my notes, his ball placement after that interception was not and there were actually a couple throws before the interception. He went through like a, I don't want to call him streaky because I don't think he's streaky, but every quarterback kind of, you know, there were moments in games. He went through like a, I don't know, seven, eight throw stretch where like his first, I don't know, eight, nine throws, ten throws, whatever it was were brilliant.

you know, just like right where you want them and layering him. But, but yeah, he went through a little stretch. And can he, I guess the question you're asking, and I mean, only time will tell, I think the question you're asking, can he afford that same kind of seven, eight throw stretch like he did against Michigan? You know, it's not a night game. You know, it's big noon kick for Fox. There will be a lot, you know, these Ohio State fans are used to it and they'll be lined up the tailgating and all that. but it's not going to be the environment that it would be if it were a night game,

but it's still going to be an environment and you're still up going against those athletes. And I don't think that he can overcome that stretch against Ohio State. Because the difference is Michigan's got a lot of talent on defense. Michigan doesn't have an offense. Ohio State does. That was my point. You're not trying to keep pace without that Michigan offense. You're trying to keep pace with a Ryan Day, Chip Kelly offense that we'll get into this

little bit more about the issues up front. with weapons everywhere, weapons everywhere. So you're trying to keep pace with that offense. The margin of error is not the same as it was against Michigan. So it would be interesting to see. I agree with everything you're seeing in Indiana. I do worry about the talent and the matchups in certain areas. All right.

So I kind of tasked myself, if you will, I really wanted to study how Indiana was going to match up against this outstanding defense. We've talked about it. It's not the level of, like, what, 2017, Alabama. It's not the level of like 2021, 2022, Georgia. But it's a damn good defense with a lot of NFL prospects on that defense, right? Right. But I also, and I don't even have to task you with it.

You task yourself with it, the trenches. And I'm excited. Mench's trenches. We're going to debut it today. Okay? We're going to bring it back. It's a reboot. Menches Trenches 2.0.

Show me. I think we get some imaging here. Show me that. Bad birdie. I'm going to get you a sponsorship, that bad bird he had. Munch, former offensive lineman, he handles a lot of our guys in the trenches, great offensive line, understanding what to look for in evaluating over the years, all positions, but certainly in the offensive line.

I'm curious what you saw, and it's going to be so critical, and I know we've got an injury to talk about, but the floor is yours, Mench. It was the most popular. I think it sold the most subscriptions on ESPN.com ever, the most popular article ever. It outsold, Kuiper in my mock drafts. It was a national sensation. And at some point, I think it got forgotten, but we're bringing it back. It's Menches, Trenches, 2.0.

We will feature on this show. It's a reboot. And I want to know, for this game specifically, what do you got? Well, listen, we've got to start with the injury. I mean, the news came out that the Iowa State lost their starting center, Seth McLaughlin, to a torn Achilles this week. big loss well first of all i went back and i'm watching him on tape and man he is he's a he's a dude he moves really well he's powerful i mean he can reach linebackers at the second level he can get

into space he holds up in pass protection uh it is a big loss for them but i think not only are you losing now two of your three best offensive linemen because you lost josh shimms simmons to a knee injury earlier in the year donovan jacks is probably your best best player um And he was in a career, a career guard played only guard his entire career and could be, you know, one of the top two guards drafted, two or three guards drafted in the upcoming draft, but they kicked him out to left tackle. Right. So now you're on your fifth this year, your fifth offensive line lineup.

There's been a lot of changes, a lot of moving pieces. And it's concerning to me. Now, listen, you got a guy in Carson Hintzman who started 12 games at center last year. You're going to kick. It sounds like this is what's going to happen. He's been playing left guard since Donovan Jackson went to tackle. So now you're going to move him back in the center, right? Then you're going to have Austin Saravold, Saraveld, come in at left guard, retrofreshment.

Started two games early on the year, Western Michigan and Akron. And then, you know, I think if you were looking at this at the beginning of the year in ranking the offensive linemen for Ohio State, their right guy guard Shabala was probably the weakest link for a lack of better way of putting it. Very talented kid. Moves well, big body, but he's high cut. He over extends at times. His footworks a little consistent.

So the reason I'm bringing this up is the interior offensive line of Ohio State versus the interior defensive line of Indiana is something we need to keep a close eye on in this game. What's Indiana got? Indiana defensive tackle, C.J. West is a game wrecker. Oh, man. big powerful violent hands doesn't have a high sack number but moves the quarterback off the spot consistently one-on-one he is a problem and one of the reasons in james carpenter who's the guy next to him

not as strong against the run as west but really flash as a pass rusher very good hands too he's got four sacks he's a guy can get off to the quarterback too so you're looking at that interior offensive line and not only that indiana plays a lot of games they will twist and stunt so you know again you have a guy who started 12 games at center at your center position now you're at home that should help with the communication all that's good they're going to throw a lot at that offensive line in the middle and how well they adjust and pick it up is going to be interesting to see and i'll tell you i went back and watched because i want to see these guys i went back and watched western michigan and i was watching sarahveld and i was like good run blocker we've got some issues in passbro

so i mean i'm a little concerned about him in prasbro and then i liked the way hinsman played against Penn State at guard last week. And then at the end of the Western Michigan game, it's a blowout. And I see Hintzman at center, and he's getting beat clean and pass pro. And all of those things are adding up to, listen, I think I'll be blunt about it.

I think Ohio State can take advantage of the lack of depth Indiana has up front. And I think that they'll be okay. And eventually the offensive line will play well enough for them to win this game. I do think that. But if you're looking long term, and we're talking about the playoffs

eventually. This is a concern long term. What's Fandu'll got for? What are the odds in this game? I'm interested. 13 and a half, Indiana is getting 13 and a half, 5 minus 520 Ohio State to win over under 51 and a half. Oof, that's interesting. Your mind is spinning. I can hear your mind spinning. Yeah, because I look at these, honest to God, before I really dug into Indiana and like, like, I've watched them all season, but really studying their offense, I would have said, that's the under. I kind of think the over might hit.

But then he's interesting. Offensive line for Ohio State. And like, I do think Chip is going to, Chip Kelly, the offensive coordinator and Ryan Day, obviously, I think they're going to want to grind it out and wear them down. Wouldn't you want to wear them down? And especially. 100%. That's their weakness. their depth. So like, that scares me too. I think everyone's going to take 13 and a half. I'll be honest. After studying that tape of the offense, I'm convinced Ohio State's going to win this

game. It won't shock me if this is like 10, 11 point game. You know what I mean? Like hanging around. Hit a couple big plays, efficient. Ohio State kind of gets a little, yeah, I don't know. that i don't know that's that game's interesting yeah huge ramifications obviously the flip side i think that the indiana offensive line has played really well together together in the rights i don't see one dude there no but my goodness like they they they remember we talked to joel clad about like like like ballet or you know just like when they in the zone blocking it's like it's like it's like what synchronized swimmers they're all in the right spot they met they hat for a hat and i know it's I think you call it a Russian ballet.

I like that one. Yeah. And it's fun to watch. This might be, and there's a lot of great coach teams out there. We got a lot of great coaches. This might be like play for play, the best coached football team in the country.

Right. We keep hearing about Signetti. And I'm like, you know, Ryan Day is no punk. I mean, like it's kind of getting overlooked. It almost feels like how good of a coach Ryan,

Ryan Day is. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, listen, I love Sygnetti. I'm not matching what. I'm just saying what he's been able to do. In a short, this isn't like a program that's been churning for a while.

What Signetti's been able to do coming in the off season to get them playing like this is. Yeah. I took the efficiency of this of this operation, this factory, like everything is just run. It's clean. It's clean. So I don't know. I kind of if gunned ahead, I think I would, I think I would might just take the point. points. But I don't know. And this is coming from a guy who says, I'm not convinced that Indiana

belongs in the top 12. I know. So like those injuries up front, let's be honest. If they are healthy, if they had the guys that they thought they were going to be playing up front at the beginning of the season, I'm looking at this game a lot differently. I mean, I love CJ West. He is, again, keep an eye on that defensive tackle, ZJ. West for Indiana. He's a good player. But I just think if they're fully healthy. And again, Donovan Jackson, I'll say this, I was encouraged by the way, he played against Penn State. I mean, he's line up against Abdul Carter. He's going to have another tough matchup against Mikhail Kamara,

who's a good edge. He's a good edge coming off there, too. I wouldn't put him, he's not the same athletically or explosiveness-wise as an Abdul-Carter, but he's going to give him a lot to handle. But make no mistake about it, Donovan Jackson is a better guard than tackle. This is a makeshift offensive line that they are trying to figure out on the run.

And again, I think they have enough talent to get around. I do see Chip using a lot of, he's going to keep guys off balance with all that run, pass option and read zones. He's going to do a lot of play action. I think we'll use Will Howard in the running game. By the way, the Ohio State backs, I don't know what got into them last week, but they were blocking like maniacs. They were deep. Reminds me like, remember Ohio State years past, different regime with Ezekiel Elliott? Yeah, yeah.

Remember. Same thing. Yeah. Just. They take, I mean, they were taking pride. Pride. Yeah. So if you're, now you've got, instead of having nine blockers, you've got 10 blockers, you know, I think there's enough that they can do.

And again, they're really good at, you know, if you're worried about your interior offensive line, get outside. And they've got, I mean, Trivon Henderson is one of the most explosive backs in the country. He's not one of the most complete, but he is so explosive. And then Judkins is just a dude. I think they're going to attack the perimeter, keep them off balance with all the magic show that Chip Kelly can put on for you. And it'll be, it'll be enough for them to, I think they'll cover, but it'll be interesting. Yeah, and Indiana's run defense has been sensational. Yeah, those linebackers fly around. Again, gap sound, always in the right place, sound tacklers, tough, you know, all the things that you would think about. There are yards, I saw some stat this week. They've given up 31 rushing yards before contact. The next best was like 150 or something crazy.

Yeah. Think about that. Like 31 yards, so if they're going to have to earn it, if history is any indication, like Henderson, Judkins, Will Howard. They're going to have to, like, you got to break tackles and force miss tackles if you're going to do it against this Indiana team, unless they're just completely overwhelmed with this offensive front. So love the Mench's Trenches, 2.0, the reboot. Good to have it back. Love the graphic. Let me, hey, Fan do it. Like, I'm not going to get into a big thing.

I've won the pool two weeks in a row. I've gone 12 and 2 in college football picks the last two weeks. okay all right and and we pounded fan duel last week i'm just going to throw them out there we don't have to i don't need a big applause i don't need any imaging i'm just going to say it we want to reward you for watching this show and listening to this show and we appreciate everyone who is downloaded subscribe spread the word we're just we're trying to make it here but this is one way we can help out i got three picks for you mensch not going to get into any detail i'm just going to give you money i'm going to hand you money let's go Oklahoma plus 13 and a half

against Alabama. Love that because it doesn't make any sense. It should be 20, 21, 22. Alabama, get the sense that they found their way. They're going to finish. I'm going to steal an hour from the bear. Two of them I stole from the bear, I think.

And I'm fine with it. But I didn't steal it from the bear. You didn't steal from him. But intelligent, intelligent players know whether the plays are. I'm not taking his Colorado, BYU. No, Colorado, Kansas. Colorado, Kansas. But that one is fishy, too.

So keep an eye out on that bear. And of course, Stu got, get out of here with your college picks. Your NFL picks will listen. They're documented, but get out of here with your college picks. Auburn plus two and a half against A&M. Yeah. And Virginia plus nine and a half versus SMU. And you probably asked a question why.

And my answer is, this is trip to fan season in college football folks. I'm telling you, right around Thanksgiving, you're sitting in your living room, you're on mom's couch, you got the smell of the triptophan, the cookies, the turkey is cooking and you take a nap, right? This is the time of year in college football where like crazy stuff happens every week. Right. We're going in the only big game. Yeah, we've got Army, we got Army Notre Dame later. But the big game everyone's looking at is number number two, Ohio State hosting Indiana,

and number five. Everything else is kind of like, yeah, we'll get on the next week. These are the weeks. Triptophan. Yeah. Watch it. Okay.

Alabama's going to get a scare. A&M is going to be in a dog fight versus Auburn. SMU's got everything going for it, right? They had a scare last week. Maybe they don't get on. Virginia's shown some signs of life. So those are three picks. Oklahoma plus 13 and a half.

Auburn plus two and a half. Virginia plus nine and a half. Sorry, Fandul. I mean, I'm just sorry. That's a new segment. Sorry, Fandle.

Thursday Staples, let's get to it. That's my guy, right? That's my guy. We've knocked it down to one per week. These are guys that we're watching tape on. They stand out. We want to plant the flag on them early. It doesn't have to be, I'd rather not first round guys, but can be first round guys,

can be late round guys, can be undrafted free agents. Let's start with you, Munch. What do you got? That's my guy. I got Minnesota. No surprise here, offensive tackle. Minnesota offensive tackle. Ariante Ursharee.

Big guy. Six foot six, three hundred thirty pounds. Listen. First round, I guess. There's some bad tape. Okay. There is, he is a guy who only played one year of high school football. Or didn't play until he was junior, so two years of high school football.

I apologize. And he's been a three-year starter at Minnesota, but he's still, I think he's still a little bit raw. And there's some times where guys can get into his pads a little bit. He can sustain in the run game. So why, why is he my guy? You don't find dudes who move like that. at that size. He is, his lateral quickness is impressive to me. He's a guy once it all comes together in terms of technique, he's going to be a starter in the lead. Draft the traits and offensive line.

Right. And I'll, I'll say this. I did kind of break the rule. You're right. I think most years he would be a day two guy. I think he would be a day two pick. He reminds me of Abraham Lucas, the king came out of Washington State. If you remember, Abraham Lucas that year had a bad rep at the senior bull where he got ran over speed and power. and everyone's like, ah, this guy can't play. And he's turned into a decent player when he's been healthy. He went in the third round. This year, Ersbury might sneak into the first round.

He tests as well as we think he could. He could sneak into the first round because I just don't think it's a great offense tackle class. Okay. I'm going to go to the other side of the ball. And I want to feature guys right now that I think who we're going to be watching on Saturdays, one of the big stories. Colorado, obviously, one of the big stories.

And it's not what you would think. the wide receivers, there's some players there. Obviously, Shador Sanders, Travis Hunter, but I want to go with a guy that I think just keeps getting overlooked. Okay? Cameron Silman Craig is a safety. Started out at Jackson State with the rest of them, right? Transferred over.

First year at Colorado last year, making the big jump in the level of competition, tied with Travis Hunter with three interceptions. Right. Big playmaker, okay? Fourth on the team and tackles with 44. Second year, he comes back. doesn't have the interceptions yet, but he's leading the team in tackles. And I've seen the confidence building this guy.

What I love about him, the leadership. My goodness. Yeah. You got Travis Hunter. You got Shiloh Sanders at the safety, same position on that team. Coach's son, Coach Prime's son. You got Shador Sanders. But like, if you kind of look around and you talk to people, like the dog, like the alpha is, is Selman Craig.

The passion is obvious. I mean, he loves playing the game in. So, so like best case, I'm not saying he's going to be this guy, but like I always try to, especially with day three guys, like, I don't even think he can get to the level necessarily. But like, what does he remind you of? Who's the NFL comp? I think Jordan Poyer is that that type of player. Ooh, I actually love that. 511.

Yeah. I've undersized, but just a dog. Like, he's versatile. He loves being around the line of scrimmage, even though he has no business. in that frame being around the line of scrimmage, gets off of blocks, instincts, shoots gaps. He's like, I'm a Yellowstone guy.

You know, and I've had to kind of get off. Now I'm a landman guy. Like Sheridan, the director, producer, whatever his role is, I just like his stuff. But when you watch those movies or anyone who's around it, and I spent one day out at a Wyoming game and had been sat on a horse. And I actually owned a horse with Portnoy, L.A. Yeah, I remember that.

We owned a horse. I didn't realize until I had a part ownership in a horse, Smoke Show City, our horse. I didn't realize I was allergic to fucking fucking horses. I didn't know. So now I've got 25% ownership in a horse and I find out that I'm that I'm allergic. And I didn't think it was that bad. And then I went,

me and Steve Levy and Brian Greasy went and we did a bit for the open of our game. It was with Josh Allen there. It was the Mountain West Conference Championship. okay so the day before we go to this rodeo and we're sitting on horses to do an open for the show you're breaking out i literally had to walk out of the the indoor facility there and my my face goes like now i'm sitting in the back like a like a ambulance patient they're racing me to like a cbs to get me a benadryl i didn't know if i was going to be i'd finally calm down i took a lot of medicine that night but my point is i don't have a lot of great experience with last

And I pointed, I get off topic there. But Silman Craig, you know, like when you watch those shows, if you've been around, like, how quick the lasso goes on and all of a sudden is like, yep, as a tackler, I love this guy. It comes out of nowhere. He'll face you up, but a lot of times it gets into your feet, takes your legs and just like snaps you off. And it's like watching it all of a sudden, like someone getting like shot in the Achilles. Like, boom, they go down. Yeah. He's a great tackler.

So if nothing else, like special teams, backup. role, I think is a day three player. His tape against Baylor 14 tackles. The sack he had a huge sack against Kansas State. Just the emotional leader. There's a lot of little things that add up to be to a guy on day three that you can trust is going to come in and find a way to contribute. So I'm excited to keep it not. When you're watching Colorado now, talked about the Kansas game. Hopefully, you know, just for the excitement of college football, hopefully get into that Big 12 championship and can get in the college football playoff. But he's a, got to keep an eye on number seven on that defense. Also, where are the scouts this week?

We touched on Indiana and Ohio State, and I do think those Indiana receivers, two of them are draft eligible this year. I think the Indiana receivers are going to get more love than people expect. I think it's grossly underrated what they've been able to do. You talked about West in the defensive line. You talked about Kamara in the defensive line. They've got some guys that's just not at the level when you compare them to the other teams in the top 10. But Indiana, Ohio State will be one where the scouts are. Give me another one. Boston College, North Carolina, I think is kind of under the radar because neither

team is ranked. I mean, anytime you get to watch Omar in Hampton, the running back from North Carolina, you're going to have, I mean, it's worth it. But they also have two edge defenders. There's one from Boston College, Donovan, Izzy Uruco, I think I'm saying that right. Isiuruku, who has 14 tackles for loss. he is very active, very disruptive. All over the Virginia Tech Tate, all over it.

North Carolina has a guy named Kaman Rucker, who was injured earlier in the year, but he's been very productive since he's come back. Another guy, you want to keep an eye on it? I got another one where the scouts have to be this week. Where's that? 135th edition of the Capital Cup. The scouts are going to be flooding to Robbins Stadium,

the campus of University of Richmond. What a great game. the all-time record in this richmond versus william and mary i got ahead of myself i was wondering if you had it yep 135 edition of the capital cup all-time record richmond's 65 william mary 64 and five ties you talk about a balanced history between these two powerhouses i'll give you a prospect and you you can you can you can cover our alma mater richmond william and mary though they've got the they've got the prospect charles i'm fair and balanced charles charles charles Charles Grant, 6-4-300, a little undersized.

But what an athlete. What an athlete. I studied his tape. Lean, athletic. He's a three-year starter left tackle. He's got experience, obviously not the highest level. Got invited. He was actually the first Jim Nagy was there.

Charles Grant, 6-4-300, lean, but athletic moves really well. Invited to the Senior Bowl. It could be the top small school prospect in 2025. Could be a D-2 guy. could be day two. I mean, we're talking like potentially second round. I think it's going to be a huge week, obviously. Anytime the small school guys get an opportunity at the senior bowl,

again some of the big time prospects, that's when we see them rise. And Jim was on with us. We talked about the North Dakota State, the lineage of offensive linemen who have gone to that game and have risen from fourth to second round, fifth to third round. I think I think Charles Grant has an opportunity to do that. Run heavy zone scheme, they're like 65, 35, 35 run pass. but great range as a run blocker, a lot of developmental upside

in past protection as well. So keep an eye on that when you're studying and watching on the couch Saturday, the 135th edition of the Capitol Cup. What's Richmond got, Mench? Well, I had to call our guy, offense coordinator, Winston October.

I was like, give me a name. Yeah, I talked to him last night. And of course, you know, you think you're going to be on the phone for about five, 10 minutes, and then Winston's just, I'm like trying to take notes, my hands cramping.

He's so excited about this game. So excited about the year. And it's always good to hear from the old teammates, man. He's such a positive guy. But the guy he kept bringing up was Zach Palmer Smith, their running back. He is second in the CAA in rushing yards. And rushing yards were game at 104.2. 6 foot 205.

This kid runs behind his pads. He doesn't need much of a crease. He's patient. He's instinctive. And Winston just kept raving about the work ethic is how humble he is. This is kind of kid doesn't want to. take any reps off in practice once to get as much many reps as he can in practice runs hard every time he gets the ball and you know i thought one of the more interesting quotes was he was at wagner

he was a wagner transfer and he had never really won anywhere and he wanted to go somewhere he could win so he went to richmond my kind of player i love that and they've won eight in a row just won the the clenched to c a all right so now we've we've worn out richmond richmond william mary but no that's great i love that stuff um yeah All right. Let's wrap it up where we always do on Thursdays. Where would Todd be this week? Columbus, Ohio, born and raised that area and went to Ohio State. We've done the SEC, beautiful place.

We've talked about Auburn with Aker Restaurant. We talked about the unbelievable restaurant situation in Athens, Georgia with Chuck's Fish. We've done Baton Rouge. Brandon Landry stepped up with the greatest all-time trip to Baton Rouge and all the places that he would go in the sites. and tailgating things that you have to do. This week in Columbus, Ohio, let me explain this to you match, okay? I grew up, I've told you.

My grandfather, Marshall Brown, got me into college football. He worked with Bo Schembeckler, he's recruiting coordinator in Northeast Ohio, the Sandusky area. Okay. And so I grew up with an intimate knowledge of this rivalry. And he was a Michigan fan living in Ohio, which wasn't always the easiest thing, right? Right. And so like the pranks they would play on one another, the like intensity of the rivalry and they would be friends for, you know, 51 weeks of the year. But like it like legitimately got weird sometimes. Like maybe a couple of cocktails too many doing some weird stuff. There was a toilet one year that was ripped out and put on top of a on top of a chimney. I found out this story like 10 years ago after my grandfather passed. He ripped out a toilet in someone's house, a Ohio State fan's house and put it on. on top of the chimney. So the rivalry runs deep.

There's some weird stuff. But Columbus, Ohio, like, it is a very different feel when you, and Columbus is, it's very different feel from the SEC, okay? It's more of like a lunch pale business trip, weather's cold, we're hardened, we've got to come in and like we're gonna, we're gonna dine on Friday night, but we're gonna, but we're fueling for Saturday and we're going to war, right? So it's different than like the southern hospitality and all that. I'm not saying the wonderful people, but like they are united as one as a front.

So with that is the backdrop. Every time I go to Ohio State, you know, ESPN would put us up in certain hotels and all that, but you get to a point where you kind of try to pick your spots and then do some pro days over the years, able to pick our own hotel. The Blackwell Hotel, I'm not saying it's, but I'm saying it's right there. It's on campus. If you can get, make a reservation, if you're going to make a trip to Columbus for a game day weekend, try to stay at the Blackwell, the Blackwell Inn, okay?

Because it's right there on campus, right by High Street, where all the action is. And you just, you feel like you're a part of it the whole time instead of like staying out at a different hotel kind of out of the way. Right. Here's my suggestion. And it's not, there's not a lot of history with the restaurants and all that stuff. And so I'm not going to waste, not, I'm not going to spend time here overselling something that I but I'm telling you Columbus is I believe last time I checked like the 14th largest city in

America and I didn't realize I had no idea big ass city okay and so it's not like when you go into like the grove at Ole Miss you know this tiny little town where everyone knows everyone it's not like Auburn Alabama right it's not like Athens Georgia it's a different vibe so you're going into a city but again lunch pale we're going to work so on Friday You fly in early, some great golfing there if you can do it, but that's not what this trip is about. This trip is about getting to work, okay? You get in early, you got to have a lunch. Let's go someplace with like good, good vibes, energy.

Forno. I don't know if we have the menu here, but I love going to forno. Every pro day I go to right after, I'll go to forno. There's energy, there's excitement there. You can see what I love, there's just a lot of different things on this menu. But I love cozying up at the bar. It's loud in there. they've got the screens on and I'm not I'm not going entree here because I got a big dinner

but I am going to put on probably 1500 to 2,000 calories, Munch. You and I like we do a lot of this after you know after games, senior bowl combine like when you and I we dine well and a lot of times I'll force you and you'll be like well I want that entree and I'm like let's get nine appetizers and different things. What jumps out to you there because I'm going to tell you what I would what I would would roll out i'm gonna be honest with you i thought i had the exact same thought i was like i want to make sure that we bring two or three people so it's not embarrassing that we get every one of them i'm gonna get i want the erincini yeah i want the crispy rice uh i want the barata uh nailed it the warm ricotta

and the ahi tuna tacos and that's just like that's just the highlights for me i really want to try i'm gonna get the meat i've had the meatballs you got to get the meatballs there too the meatballs are good. So and and and and they've got a great oven there. They make their own dough there fresh. It's, you know, in-house every day. They've got a huge, huge, like they take a lot of price. So we're going to, we're going to finish it off with a pizza. You know, one of the, like the prosciutto. Listen to this. Ricotta, Fontina, arugula, onion, olive oil, white balsamic reduction. Like, they're not messing around. This isn't like, yeah, can we have a pepperoni pizza? Right.

Can we have the meat? Can we have the meat lovers? Like, this is no joke. So that's where you start up for lunch, all right? Cozy up to the bar. Get some games, some screens in the background. Dinner is about, and again, it's different in the Midwest. It's about if you're in the Midwest, you got to go out and you got to have to have a steak dinner. Okay. Yeah. And for when you're in this, and you're in Columbus before a game, it's kind of about going out like, all right, like, where are the, where's the alumni going to be? Where, where's Eddie George, going to be if not at his restaurant where if urban meyers in town if if herb streets it where are the where are the where are the yeah the atmosphere okay where's the where's the the game the crew

going to be where's clatt and gus johnson like where are they so it's like hide park is the place that everyone like i was texting with urban yesterday he was he was telling me and i got a pull up because he'll yell at me i was texting with urban yesterday and i said still still um it's still hide park he said he goes No, it's the Urban Meyer Pint House. And he followed that with WTF. Like, come on. But I know this, his favorite restaurant that is, and I said, but Hyde Park is still your favorite restaurant that doesn't have your name on it.

But it has his name in it. This is the only weird part for me, Mitch. Right. Hyde Park is one of the, and it's become a chain. It's spread out. And there's different places, mostly like in the Midwest, a couple, one or two in Florida. But when, when I look at Hyde Park, the only thing that's, a little weird is I'm not in love with eating like your friend's names. Right, right, right.

You know, if you get the Ryan Day steak, the Kirk Herb Street steak, the Urban Meyer state. It's like, hey, what's a, urban? I had your steak last night. Herbie, I had your steak, you know, but it goes to show like this is the place to be, okay? Right. And it's a classic steakhouse, but phenomenal, phenomenal food. Their stakes are second to none. Pick out what you're I'm starting with the Wagyu beef carpache. Yep, yeah, absolutely. I'm a sucker for a crab cake, so I would probably get the crab cakes as well. The thick cut bacon.

I've had it before, oh. But the carpacho was a must. I agree on that one. And then, do you want me get into the entree or? Yeah, go ahead. Pick the steak. What are you doing? If I was 10 years younger, it would be the scarlet and gray.

I mean, that... Tell us about it. 40 ounce long bone humahawk rib eye that's the 295 version of munch oh god that looks i just can't do it anymore but i'm gonna go i'm gonna go a little heavy i'll go with the ryan day the 36 day dry age bone in rib eye heavily marbled i just when i read those words heavily marbled i start to salivate i mean 26 ounces not out of control but that's a big piece of me that i would I mean, I would kill that steak. All right.

So now we fueled up. We've had a good lunch, a lot of energy, gone probably back to the hotel, taking a little bit of nap to, you know, you sat at the bar for a few hours. And then you go out to dinner. You have like an eight o'clock dinner, home by 11, 1130. The difference here, like, we're not going bar hopping at night. You're not like, it's different than the SEC. And in some regards, but the SEC, the tailgating in both places,

that's the similarity. The tailgating in both places, the SEC, the, see the Big Ten, like very serious, different layout, different atmosphere, but the level of passion with the tailgate is absolutely similar. Here's what I'm going to tell you on game day. Here's how we got to approach this. So we've gotten a decent night's sleep back in the hotel by like 11, 1130, sleep until 6 a.m. But get up and be ready, okay?

Get your gear ready. Make sure you get your hand warmers. You get your gloves. This time of year, you can see your breath. The first thing you'll notice when you're coming in, whether you're driving down with your grandfather as a kid from Michigan to Columbus and you're driving it like through the neighborhoods as you get to the Olatangy River. The first thing you're going to notice and it's a tradition both in Michigan and an Ohio state. When you wake up in the morning, you better fly your flag. I'm telling it is it is an unbelievable.

Like you can drive through the smallest neighborhood in Ohio or Michigan near Ann Arbor. It doesn't matter what part of the state. the flag is flying. It is a tradition. Like I get goosebumps thinking about like how like my grandfather up at five in the morning like fly in that flag. Okay. So you'll notice as you're driving it, your first time ever going to a big time game at Ohio State, flags are flying from cars, from buildings, houses everywhere.

If you don't have a pole, you hang them off the side of your house. They're everywhere. Okay. So that kind of as you're driving in, you kind of get in the mood, okay? Then you drive in droves of fans, scarlet and gray. Oh, H, I, oh, right? And they're walking the banks and the bridges of the Olatangy River. Everyone coming in all geared up, right?

Scarlet and gray for as far as the eye can see. Then you get into town, okay? And I obviously working a lot. And when I was a kid, I couldn't do this. But the tradition is kegs and eggs. And it started with the Michigan game because there was always a noon kick. That's the tradition. Now you get big noon kick for Fox and we've heard it's from frustration from the fans,

but the rules still apply. Big game, noon kick. All the restaurants and bars meds opened up real early in the morning. That's why you've got to get to sleep the night before. Right. So it's kegs and eggs in all these places. Okay. And I'm telling you from the varsity club to outer in, out dash R-in, outer-in, outer in to the library,

which has been around since Woody Hayes days, to the homage bar, to the Parley Sporting Club. There's no shortage in Columbus. There is no shortage of watering holes with TV screens. I promise you that. High Street. So get there early.

I don't care for you. Get up at six. Be there like 7, 7.30. Get in there early. Enjoy the scene. Like just the vibe, the scarlet and gray, the OHIO chance.

But then you better get to the tailgate. You walk over and again, it's professional. It is not fancy. It is not the grove. We don't have chandeliers here. This is blue collar. This is Midwest.

We got brats. We got burgers. Smoke everywhere. Like, we're not, yeah, we're not putting down white tablecloths. We're not.

And honestly, if you're a Michigan fan, it ain't like one of these sweet places with all the southern hospitality. Like, don't come over here. Don't, you know, like,

we got other lots down the street. Get out. Okay. So it's a different mentality. right but then you and then the thing is you better get your work done like get to the kegs and eggs get to the tailgate get you get fed because you're when you're in there there's no leaving at half time there's no going to the concession i want you like i've had the honor and privilege of doing i don't know 15 20 Ohio state gains over like 12 years we did like five in one

year what always blows my mind is like there's not in between quills quarters, blow out, no one's getting up. So whatever fuel you need from lubricants to food, you better get done in that tailgate, okay, because that's going to last your three and a half hours. So you get into the stadium and these people get in early. Like I remember putting on my mic, getting at my mic pack ready, you know, walking around as they're warm. The kickers are kicking in pregame.

They're, like they're roaring in early. They want to see it all. Okay. So you get in the stadium. You're bundled up. You see your breath. It's a business trip. Totally different vibe, as I said.

But when we kick off, and even before, but when we kick off, it is awesome. Yeah. It's awesome, man. And I was a Michigan fan growing up, so my grandfather hated it. And I had, you know, a group of Michigan. But like, you got to respect it. Yeah. From the script, Ohio, like the way that they in unison, how they work year round,

the things that they're able to do in unison. And we talk about offensive lines. Like, yeah, it's wild to see how, how efficient they are. Dotting the eye, a tradition since 1936 at Ohio State, okay? Then you're in the stadium. And it's not like, you know, you walk down the street and the Olatangie and you're walking in it. It's like, oh, H, I, O, I, O. But in the stadium, they'll start one section.

Like, let's say the northeast corner will go, oh, and then another section in this different side of the stadium. Age. And then another section. I can't do the things. Oh, okay. And so he goes around the stadium, right? Throughout the throughout the day, those OHIO chance. And then they do the swaying to the Carmen Ohio, right?

Everyone's swaying all in unison, 103,000 people, okay? And then finally, like, and I know it's more in the new tradition, but throughout the game, you can't get the white stripe seven nation army out of your head for like five hours after a game going back to a hotel. getting on a plane to fly out. It's oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And the whole 103,000 fans doing it. So I love it, man. I just love the traditions. I miss being out there at games. We'll get the show on the road next year. I'll get you out to a couple of games. But, yeah, Ohio State is absolutely one of the special places in all of college football. And if you're thinking about making a trip there,

even not as an Ohio State fan, but just as a fan of college football, that's a pretty good jumping off point at what you can do. That's all I got, Munch. What do you got? That's great, man. I'm just soaking it in. I got to get out there and see it.

All right, fired up for this weekend. Listen, Saturday, please come. Go spiders, yep. And when you're done with the Spiders game and you're done with the Ohio State Indiana game, and you're done with the Army Notre Dame game, come join us. It's after that primetime game.

We're going to be live on YouTube. Our favorite show of the week, it's a Saturday reaction show here. on the McShay show. And yeah, join us there and then we'll be back next week. But this is a huge week. I'm telling you, trip to fan college football season. Some crazy shit is going to go down.

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