The McShay Show - Breaking Down the Latest QB Draft Buzz. Plus, a Defensive Line Deep Dive.

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by discussing the latest quarterback draft rumors and making sense of the betting odds for Jaxson Dart and Jalen Milroe. Then, they dig into their defensive line tape and talk standout traits, player comps, and more. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:55) McShay Show Draft Week Preview (7:35) FanDuel Odds on #2 + #3 Overall Picks (16:52) Jalen Milroe Draft Buzz (30:42) Todd's DL Prospect Tiers (35:00) Deep Dive: EDGE Prospects (46:05) Deep Dive: Abdul Carter [EDGE 1] (49:30) Deep Dive: Jalon Walker [EDGE 2] (52:05) Deep Dive: Mike Green [EDGE 3] (56:40) Deep Dive: Shemar Stewart [EDGE 4] (1:02:45) Deep Dive: Mykel Williams [EDGE 5] (1:04:55) Deep Dive: James Pearce Jr. [EDGE 6] (1:06:55) Deep Dive: Donovan EZEIRUAKU [EDGE 7] (1:08:40) Deep Dive: Bradyn Swinson [EDGE 8] (1:10:42) Deep Dive: Nic Scourton [EDGE 9] (1:11:25) Deep Dive: OLUWAFEMI Oladejo [Edge 10] (1:14:05) Deep Dive: Landon Jackson [Edge 11] (1:18:02) Deep Dive: Interior DL Prospects (1:20:05) Deep Dive: Mason Graham [IDL 1] (1:25:05) Deep Dive: Derrick Harmon [IDL 2] (1:27:25) Deep Dive: Walter Nolen [IDL 3] (1:30:52) Deep Dive: Kenneth Grant [IDL 4] (1:33:20) Deep Dive: Darius Alexander [IDL 5] (1:35:00) Deep Dive: Tyleik Williams [IDL 6] (1:36:45) Deep Dive: 2nd Round Interior DL Prospects Sign up for The McShay Report to receive Todd’s Mock Draft 2.0 and other premium content throughout draft season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the McShay Show presented by Fandul. The NFL draft is right around the corner, and Fandul is the best place to get in on all the action. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. Fandual always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. And Fandual has a lot of ways to bet the draft, with loads more coming between now and the first pick.

So download the Fandual Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL draft. The Ringer is committed to. responsible gaming. Please visit rg dash help.com to learn more about resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com. Let me ask you something steep. Go ahead. Are you starting to feel like we're heading towards some quarterback chaos the first two nights of the draft? Yeah. I mean,

The farther along in the process we go, the more it seems like that's happening. It's been building a little bit now. Yeah, and I'm starting to get some information, hearing things, owners meetings. Let's get to all of that. Plus, we've got the deep dive position group into the deepest position in the entire draft, the defensive line. This is the, maybe historically, the most talent we've ever seen across the front, interior and edge guys in the NFL draft history. You know, there's only 24 days until the NFL draft?

Here we go. Ment you good? I'm good, man. All right, let's play that pregame music, baby. All right, if you're tuning in, we appreciate you, whether it's on Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. Stick with us. I mean, we're in the stretch run now, right?

I'm excited. Listen, we're on Mondays and Thursdays. As we get closer to the draft, we're going to be on more frequently. We'll let you know in advance. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on scheduling. I get yelled at for talking scheduling here. But I am going to do something that Connor, and Dan and Tucker and all the way up to Bill Simmons and and beyond.

Well, there's no beyond. Jeff Chow? Can't wait. I'm not saying they told me I can't, but I have not asked for approval to do this, but I am going to let everyone who's loyal to the show know that we are live streaming during the draft. Munch and I are flying out to L.A. The draft ends in L.A., Mench. If it begins in Mobile for the senior bowl, it ends in L.A.

We're not going to Green Bay and freezing our asses off. We have beautiful studios out in LA that we've never been to and we're excited to go to. We're going to hopefully have a live event the night before. We'll give you more information if we're able to pull that off. It's going to be a fun week. And you know when we're going to end it and how we're going to end it. And I'm going to reveal it right now. And no one told me I could do this.

And I'm not even sure if the man who's hosting us, he told me we're good. So I'm assuming we're good. we're going to live stream the first night of the draft. We're going to be there about an hour before. We'll give you all the details as we get closer, but we're going to live stream throughout the first night of the draft. Second night of the draft, we're going to live stream throughout the second round. Then we're going to kind of regroup, look at everything, spend a couple hours,

and give you a show overnight. Then the third day of the draft, I'm looking at my phone because I want to pull this up. I'm just trying to think of how we could do something fun, right? And I decided to text Rosilla. because Rosillo lives out in Manhattan Beach. We're staying out in Manhattan Beach for the week. So I shot him a text. I was like, hey, just trying to call you.

You didn't pick up. You've got to leap up, poised bill situation, by the way. Call me back when you get a minute. I got an idea that I'm going to pitch to you, and your answer needs to be yes. Kind of like in the town. I need you to help.

I can't tell you what it is. You can never ask me about it later, and we're going to hurt some people. All I need you to respond with is, whose car we're going to take? So Rosillo, our good friend, I talked to him, I pitched the idea, he said yes. Awesome. We're live streaming the seventh round of the NFL draft when everyone's like,

I don't want to listen to some of these people who half of them. I don't even trust that they've watched a minute of tape and I've sat on the set with some people who haven't of any of these players being drafted. I know you don't care about a guard from Kennesaw State that's being drafted with pick 246. So what we're going to do is we're going to jump on. We're going to get the process going. We're going to start talking about what all the teams have done. What are the big moves? If a quarterback or a big player or a player that we're excited about gets drafted, we'll comment on that. But we have an awesome lineup. And I can't say with 100% confirmation,

but I'm pretty sure our boy Bill Simmons is going to be part of this thing too. We got an awesome lineup. I just wanted to share it. I'm like, I've had the Christmas gift. I've been hiding it in the closet and I'm not a kid I'm like a parent who got the kid like the toy of the year and like I'm so excited and I should wait till Christmas morning but I just ruin the surprise and I'm probably going to get yelled that after they might even cut this thing out but that's the story so as we get closer there's going to be more all week long every single day we're going to have shows from L.A. And we've got the live streams coming up for the first night, second night and for the seventh round in oh I didn't even tell you where in Ricillo's house.

Rasillo's got an awesome like man cave basement overlooking the Pacific Ocean TV's everywhere. We're taking it over. We're bringing our guys. We're bringing our whole crew. And we're going to invade his house. And I talked to Bill Simmons about this. We're going to make him run a 40-yard dash. No.

Bring your stopwatch. We're going to make him run a 40-yard deck. Okay. That's done. Now, onto the quarterbacks. And I think you've gotten, like, I love our sponsors. I appreciate them very much. Van Duel is an amazing partner in all of this.

They keep these lights on. They make sure that we have what we need. They've been an awesome sponsor and partner from the day one of this show. But I've got reads for them. We do some tweets and we do some different things, some ex post. But this has nothing to do with a sponsorship. This is like this time of year, it's interesting, match because a few years ago, I'll never forget, I was at a pro day. And I was talking to a general

manager, and he was the one who brought up to me for the first time I'd ever heard it from someone in the NFL come out of their mouth. I thought it was interesting that this, the odds are really saying that this guy's going to go here. And I don't see it that way, but somebody might know something. And I was like, oh, interesting. People in the league are looking at this stuff too, not just my degenerate friends up here in Boston. Right. And, um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, ever since that, more and more conversation. And it's not like, let's put it this way. Eric Acosta is comfortable saying one of our 146, you know,

ingredients in our cocktail for our draft final. Data points, yeah. Data points is the Madden ratings. It's also like if you'd be crazy to think that these general managers are not looking for any edge or any kind of intel. And you'd also be crazy to think that these people who make a lot of money, like Fanduel and. other places make a lot of money by having Intel and having,

they're not just throwing darts, man. They're not throwing darts. So when I, when I got up this morning and I was clicking around to see, because I love these draft odds, I've made a lot of friends, Rich and I've never once placed a bet myself. Rich.

Not rich. I have lined their pockets. I've given them some, some extra money heading into the summer every single year for the last, I love it. I love it. And we're going to, and if you are a loyal fan,

I promise you draft week. we are going to identify five or six i'll probably go four for five or five for six and you'll thank me later so stay tuned for that because we just you know too much and you if you identify certain plays most of them you're like they're on to it like they know yeah right two point five running backs in the first round those sons of bitches like they they know yep so i was looking today on fan duel and it's uh at fd sports book if you want to look right and get these the app you got to like i i fell in love this this fall the number two pick you know what the odds are munch number two pick which currently is held by the cleveland uh held by the cleveland browns

the number two pick is abdul carter edge rusher and shader sanders right those are the two names that you hear the most not as much travis hunter abdul carter minus 300 sure sanders is next highest at plus 340. Wow. Right. And if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can see these, these picks come up and the odds from Fandu. Also at number three, Travis Hunter minus 150, not as steep as Abdul Carter at two, which is runs in line with a lot of the information I'm starting to hear.

Travis Hunter's minus 150 to be the number three pick currently held by the New York Giants. Shador Sanders is plus 170. So better odds that Shador Sanders goes three than two, but not good odds at either spot, bud. Wow. So now how far does he fall? That's the conversation. One bit of information.

One Adam Schaefter nugget on NFL Live or X post or whatever it is. One thing from Pellissarro, right? One thing from one of these guys that get all the information could change that. And we've seen drastic changes. But let's keep an eye on these things because they seem to, whether they're like right at the moment or a step ahead of the moment, they are, they're not looking to lose money. Fandle is not in the business of losing money. Right. So.

And if NFL general managers are keeping an eye on this stuff and they're not keeping, they're not trying to win 25 bucks here. You know, trying to make 100 into 300. They're trying to see, does somebody know something that I? I'm not getting because a lot of people either want to give false information or don't want to give information this time of year. And so this is one more source. Maybe someone has contact somewhere, whatever it is, right? Who's going to be on the board we pick?

Do we have to move up to get a guy? All of that comes into player. Those are the two things right there. Who's going to be on the board? And if we are trying to target a player, where do we have to move up? And there are a lot of mock drafts. There's a lot of Adam Schaefter and Pellasaro and everybody else. But there's this as well.

just another ingredient in the in the big cocktail that stir it up so if you're listening to these odds and you're wondering why's mcshay going on a rant about fandle you promise that this isn't the this is the sponsorship he's not getting paid to do this and i'm not it's because the odds are telling us that shador sanders isn't going in the top three and then i look at the new england patriots are sitting at number four and they don't need a quarter back in jacksonville jaguars nope don't don't didn't bring in leham combe and a new and a new general manager with any thought of moving on for Trevor Lawrence. Okay?

Right. You got to get to six to Las Vegas where it would make any sort of sense. And I've gotten absolutely no indication. In fact, I've gotten strong indication to the opposite for both six and seven. Raiders, Jets.

Not going to be too, huh? Jets too. Not going to be Shador of those picks. I told you, I do think there's some love in the building for a Jackson Dart if you could get him. I don't think he, I'll say this right now. The biggest shock to me on the first night of the draft is if Jackson Dart's

name is not called in those first 32 picks. He's going in the first round. Okay? So when I, you know, when there was information, the Jets, like, yeah, they like them. There's a lot of teams that like Jackson Dardt, but where can you get them, right? Right. And their second round pick is at 40, 42 overall. So I look at this and I look at the, I look at the Raiders, pick six and 37, right?

Jets, 7 and 42, Saints, 9 and 40. Pittsburgh, and we'll get back to Pittsburgh in a minute. A lot of information. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Right? But they pick it 21 and no second. Yeah, they lost the second in the D.K. Macoff draft, right?

I mean, the D.K. McHalf trade. Yep. The Rams are later, I don't have the number in front of me. My list cut, um, 25-ish right around that range. The Rams are later and I could see them drafting a quarterback. But I don't think they're going into this with that idea necessarily. 26. 26.

26. But then you get back to the second round early. Cleveland 33, Giants 34. And I bring up all of those teams because I look at this and I see, okay, if Cam Ward's the only quarterback that goes in the top three, where does Shador go? Then what's the next domino? When does Jackson Dart go?

Okay. So there's no leapfrogging in this scenario. You don't think that Jackson could go ahead of Shador. I don't think so. I haven't heard anything. Yeah, I feel the same way. Yeah, I don't think so. That's not where I'm going with this.

But it does beg the question. You're looking at six spots in the top 34. If you get out of the top three, Shador's sitting there at four, you've now got like six spots that I'm looking at, right? I said Vegas, Jets, New Orleans, Pittsburgh. You can throw in the Rams. Cleveland at 33, giants at 34, so seven.

We'll call it seven spots where a quarterback could go. And this isn't exclusive to just Chador. This is like a Chador and dart, you know, dominoes falling, one, two, after, or two, three after the first domino in Cam Ward falls, presumably number one overall. As I said, I don't think, strongly. I strongly believe, based off of my information, A quarterback is not going six to the Raiders, seven to the Jets.

Wow. I don't think. Or 21 to Pittsburgh. I don't think the Steelers are going to take quarterback at 21. Wow. I do not. I thought that was the floor. I thought that was the floor for sure.

But if he's there at 21, they take it. Does the floor move, I guess, is my question. I'm still fascinated a little bit by the concept. of cake and eat it to. Nick Casary, right? Yeah. I mean, who is? Yeah, yeah.

No, I love it. Who wants to get their cake and then not eat it? I mean, if you get Abdul Carter, if you're the Cleveland Browns, and you've got some draft capital, what's to prevent you from moving back up and getting, whether it's Shador or Jackson Dart in the first round? Same for the New York Giants sitting there at number three. If you get Travis Hunter, wouldn't it be cute? We're not beyond.

It would be amazing. To team up those two guys? Right. We're not talking about that, the Stroud, Willie Anderson. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but those went two, three. You're not talking about two, three, right?

You're talking about two, 14, two, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows right now. Even the teams that, even if Joe, Joe Shane is the general manager of the Giants wants to pull something off like that,

he doesn't know at this point if he truly. can because we get closer in the conversations, and I don't know that he wants to. Same for Cleveland, sitting there at a pick 33, one spot ahead of the Giants, you know, first pick in the second round. I don't know if that's what their game plan is. So you're saying, wow, you don't think the Raiders are going to take one. You don't think the Jets are going to take one. The Saints make sense.

Very much so. They do make sense, but some of their off-season moves have been interesting. It's almost like they think they can win. A lock. No. It's not a lock. No. You don't look at them and say they have to get a quarterback.

So, and now you're saying no, Pittsburgh, I mean, all of sudden, these teams that I've identified as teams that could be targeting them. And so here's the other part of it that's fascinating to me. Because I do think it's not, this is not the year of the quarterback. There were six in the top 12 last year. This is all about the defensive line, the running backs, right? But it still is the fascinating conversation. everyone's talking about it if cam war goes one where to should door go jackson dart's crawling up creeping up awesome pro day for whatever it's worth people who are in attendance utterly utterly blown away by

him conducting it his leadership the way he handled it his maturity his arm all those things it's pro day who cares yeah love the player can't stand the pro day concepts um but here's the other element there's the secondary element because there is can't Cam Ward, and there's always been this Ward-Shedor conversation, and Jackson Dart has crept up, as we see every year. There's always, always seems to be one or two that kind of creep up and bridge the gap. Always. It's Jalen Milrow going to be QB4 in this class.

I think there's an excellent chance, an excellent chance. I mean, it's just a matter. I mean, I don't think there's any shot of him going the first round. I don't need, no, no, I'm not talking about that. But I'm now talking about these combination picks, right? Where you don't get your guy, you opt out, if you will, for a better. Yeah.

Because here's my thing. It lines up with our evaluations and our conversations with teams. I don't know a single person in the National Football League that doesn't have a higher grade on Abdul Carter and or Travis Hunter than they do. Right. Two things can be true here. You can absolutely love Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter, but also really, really, really. like Shador Sanders, but recognize the grade's not. So quarterback's more important, yes, but it's still a pass rusher. And it's

still this generational talent that might do something nobody else has done. So and Fanduil agrees. And every evaluator I talk to in the league agrees. Like, yeah, I really like varying degrees of, I do like it. Some are like, no, he's, I think the gap, I've talked to people with. I don't think the gap is huge between Ward and Chador, but I do recognize the gap. Others, yes, there are people. out there I've spoken to that have them kind of a late first early second type grade, but that always gets up. So it all kind of falls in line.

And then if it's, if you are a team like Cleveland or the giants or you are a team like Las Vegas with Tom Brady saying, I want to develop a quarterback. Right. I hate this process of bringing in a guy and throwing him in the fire. They don't know what they're doing. They're not being developed and taught a program and taught a system the way that they have to in the NFL at the college level. So you got Vegas at 37, right?

I'm just looking at that, and then you get New Orleans at 40. And so we've talked so much about, okay, well, they're looking at the second tier guys. Cleveland's put a lot of work in with the second tier guys. Colin Cowherd comes out with Jalen Milro. And this is why I think it's fascinating. Colin Cowherd comes out with Jalen Milro and says, I'm getting Intel that Pittsburgh's absolutely in love with Jalen Milroy.

I love this idea. It could take him at 21. conceptually I do well tell me right well here's the thing I don't I'll just go with the negative first right of all these teams that we're talking about are you comfortable with Mason Rudolph being your starter

if you're the Steelers I think the other teams are in a little bit better position quarterback wise in terms of playing a guy next year in developing a player I think Pittsburgh really needs to find a starter maybe more than those other teams I don't think there's a you how about this put it clip this off for later you can make fun of

I don't think there's a world out there in which Aaron Rogers is in the starting quarterback of the Steelers. Isn't? Yes. Okay. Isn't. Okay, good. That's, that's, okay. So now, now we're talking about Rogers.

We'll wait for that domino to fall, but let's just assume that. But even if not. Oh, I love it then. I love it. And here's a problem, right? I don't think that Mill Roe gets out of the second round. They don't have a second round pick. We mentioned that.

So, general manager, Omar Conn. Well, why couldn't trade back from 21? Trade back, trade up. Figure it out, man. Figure it out. They need a running desk. You can move back at Trayvion Henderson. 100%.

Pick up an additional second. Maneuver around. Yes. Yes. If you could find the right partner. But then Schefter comes out and sends an ex post after Colin a couple days ago, says I'm hearing this. They love him. They could take him at 21.

Shefter, I don't even think it was an ex. I think it was some interview he did. It was like based off of all the information, I'm getting from all over the place. I don't think. And I'm paraphrasing at him. Sorry if I'm not, it's not the actual quote. But essentially, I don't know.

Yeah, there's no chance. He's going. The quarterback is going to say. And it wasn't Milrow. It was just a quarter that they're taking a quarterback at 21. But think about Milro in Pittsburgh. I just got to say this. Like they've watched Lamar Jackson and Baltimore.

They've had to watch that unfold. And all the criticism. I don't know if people remember this. I think most people do, to be honest with you. When Lamar came out of, came out of Louisville, it was this kid's not. accurate enough you know all the the polling and stuff that came out about maybe he's not a quarterback all of the the controversy and the criticisms about him and they've watched him develop into an MVP quarterback i mean he is unreal if you if you could do that and then also one of the things we love about milrow i know you talk

about all the time is the deep ball you just went out and got dk mccap you want a quarterback and they can get him the ball downfield jalen milrow can do that for you he's a guy who can take the top off the coverage. I'm in love with that pick. The problem for me has always been now that they don't have a second round pick. How do they get into a position to take him in the right area of the draft? So sticking with the Milrow thing here, Cleveland. General manager Andrew Berry came out and started talking about four quarterbacks that they've put their eyes on live, three, and the fourth being Shador Sanders, I guess that they have a workout scheduled with him. And his pro days coming up next week at Colorado. He mentioned four.

four quarterbacks that basically that they've narrowed it down to. I was surprised he even gave that information. Tyler Shuck was not one of the four. It was Cam Ward, Shador, Sanders, Jackson, Dart, and Jalen Milro. You know who their offensive coordinator is? Who's their offensive coordinator right now? Tommy Reese. Who was with Millrow at Alabama.

Had a better year with Mill Road, Alabama than he had this past year with Kalin DeBore and that offensive staff. Jordan Schultz comes out, insider, right? I don't have the quote here. I'm not looking to go into his specifics, but there's a quote from an assistant general manager that he put out there. And I don't think he would put it out there if he was making it up, talking about things that people are overlooking with Jalen Milrow

and the criticism's been too harsh. Okay. But then there's what I see on tape. Right. And then there's also the conversations I'm having. What I've seen on tape, we just went into a long thing. If you didn't go, if you didn't watch it, go back and check it out. It lives on the YouTube page and also on Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast.

We just recently are our most recent position deep dive, position group deep dive, quarterbacks. So I'm not going to bore people and we've got to get to defensive line today. But I also have this intel and I keep a one sheet for all these players, the top players and all the information. If I'm starting to hear quotes or different things as I have conversations with people. And in addition to, and yes, and part of my evaluation, everyone's evaluation is beautiful deep ball. Great young man, beloved in Tuscaloosa.

Like, good luck finding someone who doesn't like this human being. Smart kid. Smart guy. Smart. Picks things up. But, but, blah, blah. Also, his, I mean, it doesn't take a Super Scout to figure out his, you know, is 4,3, 940 and what he does on tape and just watch him against Georgia. The mobility is.

Totally. He was weaving during the 40, by the way. Supposedly he was not straight down the line. Perfect. Insane. But I also have all these quotes that fall in line. And I'm not going to get into everything, but I do want to share with you. And this goes in the category of it only takes one.

But there are people out there who are like no feel, no instincts. There's some bad tape. There's some really bad tape. It's just what it is. These are quotes. Can't execute an offense. some stories I was told about like Kaelin DeBore and the staff and the frustrations mounting throughout the season you could almost see it on tape look great against Wisconsin at times

great in the first half against Georgia frustrations of like calls going in not the same play being run or miscommunications not understanding this read to that read not knowing nowhere to go with the football despite so there's a lot of those things also no touch He's inaccurate. Muscled up. I talked to you about Tim Tebow, Will Levis, Brady Quinn.

So there's like this, but unlike Vince Young, he's got time. Right. I was going to draft him with time. No one's going to draft him with the expectation of putting him in like Vince Young was.

Right. When he's a third overall pick, Anthony Richardson. Yeah. So he's going to have the, So I don't know. I also saw this. Matt Williams, by the way.

That's where I got it from. Old school. Yeah. Shout out Matt Williams. Yeah. In a while, our old buddy. Haven't talked to him in a while. But I was scrolling through some stuff on Mill Road to see what anything else is out there.

And he had a really interesting nugget. Throws between 5 and 25 yards downfield. His 48% accuracy rate is 5.5 percentage points worse than the next lowest quarterback. Talking about Jalen Milrow. while his 33.1 uncatchable rate is 3.8 percentage points worse than the next closest. So here's the deal. And just to kind of summarize it all, two things. First of all is, I think it's going to be fascinating because there are some teams out there that love him. And there are a lot of teams out there that don't have the time or interest in developing it. There are teams out there that like Chodor a lot and consider him a top 10 pick.

there are other teams that view him as a second round pick. We know Kim Ward's going one. We know Jackson Dart is rising. But you can't look at this board and say, oh, they're going to take, if he falls there, they're taking him. I don't have, I can't pinpoint that right now. So it makes for a fascinating first night and then whatever's left over. If Milrose sitting there, Tyler Shuck sitting there, which teams didn't get their guy in the first round.

Does a Nick Casario type move happen to? try to get your Abdul Carter and your Shador Sanders or your Travis Hunter and your Shador Sanders. We're setting up for something chaotic and it's going to be a lot of fun. That's the first part. The second part with Jalen Milrow specifically, and I want you to pay strict attention to what I say, to what I say because I choose my words carefully, as Dalton Russell says, an inside man, pay strict attention to what I say because I choose my words carefully. Here are my words.

It is very hard to ignore the imperfections on tape and the evaluations are actually, the evaluators are actually aware of every nuanced thing that happened in Tuscaloosa. Okay. Interesting. But it would also be ignorant. not to acknowledge these special traits. History tells you it would be ignorant and you got to take chances. So, as Dalton Russell also says an inside man,

therein, as the bard would tell us, why is the rub? All right. That's great. Moving on. I'm buying that lottery ticket in the second round, man. And also, I want a wild card team to come out of nowhere. I want another Atlanta situation. I want a team that we do not expect.

I think we could have that. So do I. So do I do. And I want that. I don't want to blow up. I hope it's after your, I know how hard you work on that mock. So I hope it's after your mock gets blown up because that's going to happen in the first 10.

Oh, I don't care. I don't care. I know. But it will be awesome. Just it's, it's chaos. I love that entertainment factor of a team that you don't. And I can't give you one because if I,

if I did, that would defeat the purpose. Like it's a team you don't expect, man. It's a team you don't see it coming. Could they just say, Oh, Shador is here? Well, our board is our board, and we have them in this point. We're taking them.

It would be interesting to see if that happens. I will never apologize for putting good content out there, and we've put amazing content out with the quarterbacks and the wide receivers and the tight ends and the running backs. I really, like, I feel great about it. But I also recognize and you watch tape and you learn from your mistakes. Like, it may be a little exhausting at times for some people. So I do want to keep this. But it's almost impossible to keep it moving.

And of course, I'm going to try to keep it moving with a group. The defensive line is loaded. This is our position deep dive. Position group deep dive, we're doing a series on this. We've wrapped up all the offensive positions. We're saving the best for last firm bench. We're going to do offensive line at the end. But this is the most talent-rich defensive line class in the last 30 years.

And I don't say that. flippantly i don't throw that out there just because i'm excited about this year's class i went back and i did some research previously in 2016 there were 26 edged and interior defensive lineman taken in the first three rounds of that draft there were some years where there were 13 um edges there were some years like 13 or 14 but combined together the interior and edge guys. That's the most we've seen. And I went back in 30 years.

Wow. So right now, this group, I've got 16 interior defensive linemen and 19 edge rushers with grades in the first three rounds. That equals 35, this 2025 group. So even if I'm right there, even if I overgraded eight of them, it would still be the most defensive line.

been taken in the first three rounds of the draft in minimum 30 years. I wasn't going back to like the 80s, okay? I went back 30 years and that was my cutoff. So here we go. Here's what I'm going to give you a quick overview. Okay. There's the two elite guys in my opinion, right at the top.

And you can throw up the graphic Tucker for people watching on YouTube and Spotify. Abdul Carter and Mason Graham. We'll get to kind of what's special about them. They're the blue chippers at the top, right? Then I think it's going to be kind of a class of runs. Okay? You're going to see, and it probably will be, I don't know, maybe pick eight, Carolina, nine, but it's not, I think it could be around that range.

Then you'll see like Jalen Walker. And I think the edge group, maybe it'll be Jalen Walker and then four or five more picks. But once you see a Mike Green or a Shemar Stewart come off the board, there's going to be a run. Okay. There's going to be a run. Okay. So it's going to go, it's going to go one, one edge, one interior guy, Carter and Graham. Then you're going to see a run of these edge guys. You see it on these rankings, right? It's Jalen Walker, Mike Green, Shamar Stewart, Mike L. Williams, James Pierce, Donovan, as a Ruku.

Okay. Yep, I'm with you. As a Raku. I'll have it right in 24 days. Okay, after that, but kind of weaved in there, though, towards the like Pierce. some of the character stuff as a rock who i think you're going to see a derrick harmon into interior guy walter nolan kenneth grant right that that's going to kind of be weaved in towards the end of round one you're going to see harmon and nolan and grant maybe early round two of one of those sneaks out of the first round but then to start the second round it's going to be darius alexander ty leek williams chamar smar smar turner joshua farmer and then beyond that like that's that's that going to be that interior run.

Omar Norman lot. Heaved in with a couple edges, right? Like Brady, Braden Swinson. Nick Scorton, I'm not as high on as most people. Scorton will probably go in that earlier part of the second. But then it'll be kind of, you know, a mixed bag of Alfred Collins, T.J. Sanders, at Interior. And then Oladajo from UCLA, Landon Jackson, JTT, Ohio State.

So it's going to be runs. But at the end of the day, my goodness, we got a lot of guys. A lot of guys going in the first three rounds of this draft. Yeah, you're going to players that normally would be drafted probably early in the third round could slip into the fourth round just because the way needs and team fits and all that unfolds. You're going to find there's going to be some guys the day three of this draft where I'm going to be stunned that they're still available, I think. Just because the numbers. It's just a numbers game.

Especially at edge. I think interior is better. Well, let's get to it. All right. Okay. So let's get to the edge. Edge group. Let's do it.

As you saw there on that graphic, and I just mentioned, I think this edge group is extraordinarily rich in round one and in round three. Interesting. I think there's going to be a little bit of a drop off in round two, okay? But then I think it's loaded kind of late day one into early day two. And to your point, you're going to find guys that you'd be like, normally you'd be like, there's no, we just can't get a guy that caliber. Early day, early day three, sorry. Right. Gotcha.

Early day three in the fourth round. I have 10 more graded in the first four rounds than the three year average. Let's throw up that three year average, Tucker for people on YouTube and Spotify. Three more in the first four rounds or, sorry, 10 more in the first four rounds. what 9.4 than the average of 15.6 in the first 4 rounds, right? 7 in the first,

3 in the second, 9 in the 3rd, 6 in the 4th, okay? Gotcha. If 7 go in the first round, Mench, it'll be the first time since 2012. And the only time that I remember seeing,

I don't think, like, I think it was three decades. But the first time since 2012, so we're talking like 13 years. that we saw seven edge defenders going the first round. A little bit of a mixed bag, but not horrible. Bruce Irvin, Quentin Copels, Melvin Ingram, Shea McClellan, then the later was actually just as good as the beginning. Chandler Jones, Whitney Mercilist, Nick Perry, okay?

That was that 2012 class. So this would be the first time since that class that we could C-7. I don't know that all will go, but they could. Okay? Yep. I created a thing for the top top prospects, and I tried to break them up real quickly before we get into the individuals. I tried to break them up based off of the defensive front fits.

This is difficult, man. It's more so than ever, but I just want to give people kind of a feel, just as an overview. If we have those fits, we can throw that up to. The edges were even less, like, it was even blurrier, if you will, than the, muddier, yeah, muddier than the interior guys. But those are the, so let's keep rolling. So those are the five techniques.

We'll get back to the defensive tackles. But those could be guys that play that three, four defensive end. Here's the base three four outside linebackers. And again, Abdul Carter, just like Micah Parsons, could be a three, four outside backer, could be an RDE in a base four man front, whatever you want. But Jalen Walker fits best as an outside linebacker and a three four. Absolutely. As does Mike Green.

James Pierce, Donovan Ezoraku from Boston College, Braden Swinson, Femiola Dejo from UCLA, Prince Lee Umanel, Omanee Ellen, Ole Miss, Baron Sorrell. Sorrell, I was just looking at all right. Thank you. Yeah, it was going to correct you. Yeah, please do. Always do.

We're getting closer. I can't miss this. Brendan Sorrell. Thanks, Dan. Baron Sorrel. And then Josiah Stewart, okay? So then let's flip over to the other guys. Those are three, four backers that they fit best.

But again, all of these guys can do multiple things. Shamar Stewart can play base four, three. He can stand up and rush off the edge. He can also play some five technique. Same with Mikel Williams, Georgia, Nick Scorton. Here's what was interesting. We'll get to these in Landon Jackson and Jordan Birch are considered by a lot of people that I hear talking about these guys. Jackson from Arkansas, Bertz from Oregon.

as five techniques. Yep. Yeah, they played a lot of snaps there if you look at PFF. And their body types appear to be that. But my goodness, there's a difference in tape with both those guys. When they're outside the tackle versus face-up five technique. Man, I don't, listen, I don't know. Especially with Birch, I like him as that four-eye inside shoulder against the run.

he's a what's interesting about him is that he's a much better edge pass rusher even though he's he's an outstanding ed rusher in my opinion he's not great between the tackles rushing the passer and that's kind of what you think with these guys yeah wouldn't say terrible but i got you comparatively he's better he's better on the outside much better on the outside but when you're on when you're on when you're on heavy downs i kind of like him inside the the tackle okay i'm higher on him than you a lot higher i like him a lot we can agree to do i like his potential a lot i I did not see. Can I watch, I spent, when we, we finished taping our last podcast, uh, early evening

last Wednesday. It is now Monday evening. I have done little besides eat, sleep and watching defensive linemen. It doesn't make, mean that my evaluation is any better or lesser than yours. Um, I have shut off the outside world. I spent a wonderful day with my kids on Saturday. And outside of that, I have like immersed myself in these guys. And I just, I saw a difference.

We'll get to them. Let's go back to the top seven edge guys as we focus on these edges. Here's what's fascinating to me. As an evaluator, you want things that are clean. There's nothing better than a clean evaluation where you go in to the GM or if you do what we do and you come on the air and you're able to say the talent is there. He belongs here in the draft and we don't have any external to worry about durability, character, whatever it is. The frustrating part, while this group could have seven in the first round, and I'm telling you could be record-setting in the first three rounds and throughout the draft,

could be one of the best groups we've ever seen in terms of numbers and quantity, volume. The tape is awesome. It's fun. I, like, had a blast the last five days, a blast, interior and the edge guys. They all bring a little something different, kind of dissecting what each guy does best. How they'd fit? could be the most since 2012, right? Worst case, maybe it's just six, not worst case,

but even if it's six, it's the most since 2016 with Miles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen, that group. Good group. And this group is more talented than 2016, and it might be more talented than 2012. The thing that concerns me, though,

is that this year's group comes with a lot of yeah-butts. Let's go through them. There's yeah, bucks. As an evaluator, you want it to be clean in round one. There's nothing that's perfectly clean. Now, there's varying degrees of the butts. Let's start with Abdul Carter. Next, Micah Parsons.

Converted linebacker, Penn State, where's 11, explosive. We'll get to his evaluation in a minute. But size, shoulder, foot. Jalen Walker, explosive as hell. But is he the next Micah Parsons or is it a tweener? Right. And thigh injury. Mike Green, Tasmanian devil, 17 sacks, explosive, was great at the senior bowl.

So it wasn't just level of competition. But two sexual assault accusations. Shemar Stewart, all traits team. You want them walking off the bus. Blows up the combine. Great two days. before graduating the Senior Bowl. But no production.

It's true. James Pierce, second best pass rusher, in my opinion, in this entire class. In terms of plug in right now, if I had to go get after the quarterback after Abdul Carter, in terms of development, explosiveness, the traits, James Pierce is the second best pass rusher, in my opinion. But I played the few of snaps of all of these guys this past year in a really deep defensive line. He's benefiting from being fresh. and there's a lot of outside noise.

I'll paraphrase, and we can get to him more in terms of his camp, people around him, the externals. And that's, you can probably, just as a draft detective, seeing different lists where James Pierce was talking about top 10 for a long, long time, but now everyone's dropping him on their board. It's not because of his talent.

His talent didn't change. His tape is freaking awesome. It's so much fun of odds. He flies. Mikel. Williams, body beautiful. clean as a whistle, wants to learn, loves the game. Not his vocal as Jalen Walker, but just not a negative thing coming out of Athens or anywhere else about this guy.

But will he ever reach his full potential? Was it his ankle this past year that prevented him, that injury he suffered against Clemson and was kind of lingering throughout the season? Or is he just still got a lot of developing to do? And then finally, Donovan Azaraku, Boston College, elite. production, long arms, refined hands, body control you dream of on a Ferrari, cornering on rails. But he's six, two and a half.

And he probably didn't run a 40-yard dasher in the pre-draft process. And a lot of other people didn't. But are we hiding something there? So that's the yeah, butts. And I'm not here to piss on the parade, as they say. But I'm just saying, because I think people here are like, oh, my gosh, McShay and these people are saying, this is the best defensive line class ever, but nobody really has guys fly.

It's not like we get three in the top six. Right. You know what I mean? There's questions. Yeah. So let's jump off. I think that's all fair. All of that was fair to me.

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Visit walmart.com to order now. Promotion valid for first express delivery order. $50 minimum. Subject to availability, restrictions apply. Let's start off. Abdul Cardin. We're going to go lightning around here. And I really want to focus on, we all know they're really good.

We can all read heights and weights and we can all do that stuff, right? Everyone's capable of it. What jumped out to us on tape that's different, whether it's good or bad, let's keep it moving. Abdul Carter, 734 snaps, right? Here's this guy that's the, you know, presumed top five pick and then kind of as the season one on. I think everyone started talking number one overall. He's still out there grinding. Yeah, they played more games than others, but he was second behind as a Ruku from Boston

college in terms of snaps and i see the effort on tape and it's awesome now let's talk about the player explosive takeoff elite dip in bend that's where he just kills offensive tackles with his dip and his ability to bend okay it's different yep few humans on the planet right can turn the corner dip under the arms of an offensive tackle and then accelerate through that corner i want you again going back to my my quote earlier Listen carefully because I choose my words. You don't like with all the tape we've ever watched. There's not many guys.

I'm not saying he's the only, but there's not many guys that you watch that can do this combination of things that can explode the way he can to put pressure on offensive tackles to get them on their heels. Then dip around at that speed under offensive tackles with that body control and the bend and the flexibility it requires. And then accelerate out of the bend. like Abdul Carter, and that's why he's different than everybody else.

That's his true superpower, in my opinion. Then you add the fact that like the elite change your direction. Yep. You know, the outside in, inside out moves, and then the lightning quick hands to slap, swat, rip. He's just, he's a nightmare. I mean, he's to me, and then, yeah, the fact he plays his ass off. And I want to make this point because I haven't heard anyone make this point.

point. I want people to realize that everything you see on tape and the polish and the explosiveness and the hands and the violence and all of that stuff. And yes, he can continue to get better. He's just scratching the surface, man. He's only played 16 games as an edge and his life as a true edge. Okay. So, I mean, I'm not saying it's Garrett, it's Watt, it's Parsons, but I'm saying he's next in line with a chance to be close to that group and that's something you don't often see. I agree. That's fair.

And then you talk about that background as a linebacker, and you talk about simulated pressures and what you want to do in the NFL. Listen, I want that guy going after the quarterback every snap. But a big moment, you want to throw a quarterback off? He can drop into coverage and make plays, man. He moves that well. So that's just a little aspect of his game.

And to me, a lot of guys can run fast. And so many players, I feel like, want to win with speed and show how fast they are around the corner. It's his ability to win with his hands, work back inside. track the quarterback. Don't get, you know, a lot of speed rushers get too far afield. I think he does a good job of realizing when he's even with the quarterback,

working back inside. And then there's the run aspect, so the run defense. And it's not elite. I'm not going to say it is elite. He's a leaner guy, but he is disruptive, and he is tough, and he does play his ass off. All right. Jalen Walker, number two on the list.

What do you got? He's one of those guys that I talk about, that scares me because of the size, because of the snaps that he's played, that he's played at off the ball, that he's played at inside linebacker. Those two things are two things that you have to recognize and you have to talk about, and that was in your yeah, buts. So I guess we already kind of hit it a little bit. I'm like everyone else, though. I'm betting on this kid because of the tapes that good. He's that explosive. I think he can overcome that coming off the edge. I think it's interesting that a lot of people list them as an inside linebacker. I don't think you draft an inside linebacker usually that high. I think it's unusual.

I see him as an edge. His value is as an edge. You can use them in different ways, but I think his value is his ability to get out for the quarterback, and that's his explosiveness, his ability to get under guys, the way he closes, the way he chases, all of those are things that jumped out of me on tape.

Yeah, he's the most sudden athlete of all these guys that we're going to talk about. A couple other things. I've got good sources close to that program. You want an alpha dog. You want like the guy? Mm-hmm. And it's kind of like the old days in Alabama.

There was always that alpha. He's the alpha. And it's a thing to be the Georgia alpha. Yeah. You know? He also played punt coverage this entire season. Yeah. He loves the game.

Right. So if I'm a defensive line coach, I'm a defensive coordinator, and I'm looking at this, this. beautiful chess piece, if you will, and a guy that can, I can play him off the ball in certain situations. I can play him at edge. I can do all those things. He better be smart as a whip.

He better love the game. He better have a nonstop motor. He better just want to be on the field and doing things because I'm going to need that. Now, if he's some kind of diva or if he's a pain in the ass or he's nicked up a lot or those sorts of things, I'm less inclined to spend a premium pick on that kind of player. This dude opted in to punt coverage. teams last year. He's Jalen Walker.

You know what I mean? Yeah. He doesn't have to do that. We've evaluated dozens of undersized guys that are quick and explosive and fast and all those things that have not turned out to be Hassan Redding. Right. You got to have special traits to become Hassan Reddick. And a special want and passion.

And you've got to be a little different. And I think he can be. Mike Green. I mentioned the two sexual assaults. I think it's very important to put context with that, obviously. It was reported. He was suspended from Virginia before transferring to Marshall. Just to be clear, two accusations.

Two accusations. Sorry, two accusations. This is not what we do. No. So we're trying to be careful. And I appreciate you. And I'm going through this because I'm going to read a little bit here to make sure that we cover it correctly. It's been reported that he was accused of sexual assault twice, once in high school.

And one anonymous accusation at UVA, I would never. bring any of this up if it was not the center of attention in the combine but i just want to make sure that if you're only tuning in here or you haven't heard any of that this was covered at the combine he was very open speaking about it because he wants to make sure that his voice is heard and that his side of the story is heard okay and he did that at the combine when addressing the accusations there he said quote i've never been questioned i've never been asked you know you know what i'm saying like Nobody ever asked me a question about what happened before I departed from Virginia. It was just accusations that caused me to leave from there.

Okay. So that's what we have. Led the FBS in Saxes past year. Dominant at the senior bowl. Blistering fast time in the three cone, 685, like elite, elite. Also a 425 at Pro Day. A ton of snaps at Marshall, 719, just behind the last two guys I mentioned. Asa Raku and Abdul Carterwood, 766 and 734, respectively.

Here's what I got real quickly on him. He's a wide seven, wide nine edge in the NFL. Get him outside, let him play in a little bit of space, give him a little bit of a runway. He's more powerful than I expected. Yeah. You know, 6.3, 251. and I was watching him right after I was watching Jalen Walker and after Abdul Carter,

he's got some snap in his hands. There's a couple guys like that in this class that are undersized, but really win with power. Violence and suddenness in his hands is what I said. Change of direction skills. You saw it in the three cone. You see it on tape. I think he's got a chance to be really good.

I think he's suited as a three, four outside lineback. Yep. serve in that like the cowboys have four three edge keep them wide i gave a comp of nick benito and i almost feel like it's lesser than but i also want to remember this isn't nick benito coming out of oklahoma this is nick benito with the 13 and a half sacks last year it's the same almost identical height arm right he's 10 pounds heavier at this same point in the development but a similar type of role and potential in terms of sack production i don't hate it i like it i mean that just connerly rep at the

a senior bowl that, I mean, everyone who's there and everyone who's watched and has talked about where he just runs over Josh Connerling is not a fluke. That is who he is as a pass rusher. He can run right through you. Now, again, we talk about Abdul Carter's superpowers, you know, the bend. And Mike Green's superpowers probably speed to power. But then the reason these guys are so high is they branch off of it. Everything branches off of that.

That's what he starts with and that's his base. But he also wins with his hands. He can also dip at the top of it. his rush. So there's these things that they're really good at, but they there's more elements to their game. My favorite was my take came in on Saturday, my son. And he he's good for like three plays on tape. I'm pulling it back up. You know what I mean? Like yeah, yeah, tape, you want to watch, Tate, you want to watch this guy? It's Mike Green. He's from Marshall. I was Virginia Tech. I'm pulling up the play now. He comes in and I think it was the first play if they cut up against Virginia Tech.

Like the first seconder, here we go. No, it wasn't the first play. This is really good. I'm going to find it, though. There it is. Just run somebody over? So it's the second play of this cut up of this key plays. It's the first quarter, Eduardo can find.

It's the first quarter, 557 left against Virginia's tag. Yeah, it's great. Comes off the edge, quick move, rips down the quarterback, quarterback throws it into the sideline at the very end. But then he does that climb. after his celebration. That's the only thing that my son picked up on. All right, Shamar Stewart, Texas A&M,

I'll let you go on him because I've talked a lot about Shamar. We've talked a lot about him. And I still feel like this. He's the case study of production versus talent. And you see it on tape. It's almost like, how is he not getting more sacks? How is he not getting into the quarterback? You watch the Missouri tape.

We've talked about it ad nauseum. I'm going to talk about it again. he's throwing two offensive line on the side with one arm. I mean, he has unique traits, and the tape is good. The tape is way better than the production, but it is the production that's going to scare people. I mean, he just did not put up big numbers. And yes, he played on a talented defensive line,

and yes, you know, that's kind of, you know, maybe take some of that away because other guys are getting to the quarterback too. He should have had bigger numbers. It's still, it is baffling to me that he didn't have bigger numbers because, again, when you're talking about the power, has coming off the edge his ability to run guys over his ability to throw guys aside you know a la reggie white the way he can do that is impressive why are with those numbers so low i just can't i don't get i don't get it i'm speaking generally here with smart stewart scouts don't like them

yeah and and if you take a step back and you think about the process and and everyone's role in it it kind of makes sense because if you go out and you put your your name on the tape you you put his name and you punch it down and you're pounding the table. And he turns out to be a guy that isn't because it's a projection with him, right? Coaches, though, get involved in the process and they see some of the things and they're like, it's not on them. Well, the GM, you know, the scouts brought him in. I'm just doing the best I can with him until he's a star and then it's like, I developed him.

Right? Yeah. So it's not surprising. a lot of the conversations I have tend to lean negative with Shemar Stewart with scouts in the league. Okay, right. I heard it. I remember a guy in the league told me one time that there was a scout who always brought up these players that were high ceiling players. And the GM would say to him, man, you love guys that don't make plays.

And it was kind of a devil's advocate thing, but it's true. Like, we all get caught up on it. And, you know, Al Davis, the Raiders was obviously the most obvious of a guy with the height weight speed. You know, it seemed like that was how their board was set up, practically. speed right speed um so everyone gets caught up in it but i mean when you production's a thing it's a there's a reason why it's at the very top of all of our reports do this guy like what did he do at the college level he's a fascinating case study travon walker's the last one that's kind of similar to him and john doris i think trowal walker had better numbers too trayvon walker's head has been good he's a damn

good run defender he's a good player he ain't aiden hutchinson no so he put his neck on the line and Now, John Dorsey, not because of that, but part of the resume, John Dorsey lost his job this offseason, right? Right. Here's the thing with Stewart. I'll give you, the traits are stupid. I mean, the top end speed is rare. Top five results in the 40, 459 at 6.5, 267 pounds.

34 and an eighth inch, like all these other guys are 32 to 33 and change arm length. His is 34 and an eighth. Okay? And with that size, he runs the fourth fastest 40 at 459. The third fastest 10-yard split. We talk about that line. If you get 1-60 or under, like, sign me up. That was Bill Polion's thing when he was trying to beat this bill to get closers and the pass rushers.

1-60. Don't talk to me. Don't bring him because we're playing inside a dome. We got Peyton on offense. We're going to get a lead. We need closers. 16-0. He's at 158 at 267, bench.

Okay. Then the broad jump is 10-11. best in class. Vertical jump, 40 inches, second best in class. I think he's an outstanding run defender.

I think you can play him a five technique. I can think he sets a hard edge. I think he's, and yes, there should be more tackles. It seems to be a recurring theme. But he's a damn good run defender right now and that travels to the NFL.

Right, right. And here's the thing. We watched some of the tape together when we were down in Mobile. He's disruptive as hell. 33 hurries this past year, okay? But he's not productive, disruptive, not productive. He had one and a half sacks.

But that lack of production is frightening. We've been talking about this. But with the bend he has and those numbers I just read to you. The torque. And power travels to the NFL. I'd much rather a guy with power than just a pure speedster, a burner off the edge. And then you watch them against guys like Armand Membu.

pushed them around on a few reps. Will Campbell, backed Will Campbell up a couple times, but didn't finish. And am I crazy? It's not an effort issue, is it? Like, I don't see it as an effort issue. I think he's got a good motor. I don't.

Here's the thing I want to see from him. Be the aggressor. This is the thing I wrote down from my notes. Be the aggressor. Why is it that my guys got 34-plus-inch arms and we're letting offensive tackles get into our body first? Drives me freaking-knit. nuts also needs more consistent plan.

That's going to be, you get this guy in the right D-line group, veterans working on technique, little things, and the right defensive line coach, and he's got a chance to be an absolute star. I think he could be a DeNeil Hunter, who's now with the Texans, who's a third round pick in 2015, similar traits, similarly poor production. He had just DeNeil Hunter coming out of LSU's final year. He had one and a half sex. the difference. He had two hurries. I just told you 33 for this guy.

Wow. He only had two hurries. That's crazy. I looked up. All right, Michael Williams, not all that different in terms of what we're dealing with here. No. Can I tell you something about him that? Go ahead. All you. It is clear that he has hurt on some of these tapes. I mean, it is clear. He's running after guys and limping. I think for whatever it's worth, he deserves a ton of credit for staying in the fight as long as he did i mean i think he easily and other players would have tapped out a long time ago i think there was no question that he played her the fact that he put up the numbers i think he had his best year i know they weren't great numbers i think he had his best year this year that the first texas game if you're a scout going to a

gm's office you're like oh let's just throw this on these are the two texas offensive tackles that might go on the top onrondred one mike is probably going to go in the you know it may probably going to go on the first round. Let's see how he doesn't get into those guys. He's outrageous in that game. And like I said, you have to factor in that ankle. I'm betting on him, man. Yeah.

I see some of these mocks. I think he's going way too low. I like way too low. I'm betting on them. And it's funny because they're all different players. They have all different journeys and traits and production and everything else. I just think there's a bunch of damn good edge rushers that,

yeah, they don't belong in the top five. maybe top 10 but you give me Mike green and I'm like okay you give me you give me mykell Williams let's go to work you give me yeah smart Stewart let's go to work let's get him where he needs to go where there's ton to work you give me James Pierce because I know this I know with with with with Mikel and with Stewart before him they're they're great run defenders right they're going to play hard they're great run defenders Mikel had four and a half sacks as a freshman. He was like this breakout guy,

but he never was able to get over the top. Thought this year would be that year. Ankle injure against Clemson, all of that. But he's got the motor. He's got natural ability to keep his hands and legs moving through contact. Mm-hmm. And he's going to be a damn good run defender from day one. So I know at least I'm getting something right away while we developed the other part.

Then you get to James Pierce. Talked about it. There's some stuff that's going to make him drop. And I've talked to people who had interviews with him and they love meeting with them. And he's a good guy one-on-one and in a small group. And I've heard stories of the externals and a lot of noise, a lot of bullshit in his life that he's got to be able to extract to sum it all up. And I've got another full page of stuff in here. Right.

Okay. Of just stuff that he needs, he's going to have to grow up and extract. But I'm telling you, I'm in love with him on. tape. How can you not be? The effort, the pass rushing, the refinement, first step explosiveness is awesome. Ran a 447 mensch at 245 pounds, 6.5 and a quarter has room and his frame to grow. Combined best 447.

Also combined best 10 split of 156. We talked about 158. It's outrageous. He ran a 156. That's like wide receiver territory. It's unworldly. Yeah. Okay. Keeps offensive tackles in a constant panic. He is mature, technically, savvy pass rusher,

sudden ties his feet to hands beautifully. When he has the right plan, doesn't always, he's still growing. But you give him a little speed, too, like a little runway to speed power. He's got a little juice there. Yeah, I just, listen, I can go on with the quotes I have and all the stuff, the external factors in his life. of bullshit in his background a lot of influences in his life and noise in the background I mean these are all quotes okay but I want to make it perfectly clear that if pierce game is a clean prospect and there was none of that I would have him as the number two edge in this class behind only no question okay no question I think Brian burns is a decent cop for him oh I like that one that's a really good one Donovan as a rock who Boston college take it away all yours is your guy

you know you kind of stole my thunder early on I do like that he's Although he's a smaller guy, he has excellent length, but it's the polish. It's the hands. It's a change of direction. He can get you going one way and he's going to come back and go the other way. He gets guys off balance. He's NFL ready in my mind. The frame, you wish he was a little bit bigger.

You're going to put him as a three, four outside linebacker. I think he's going to be fine in that role. I think he's tough against the run. He's got the length to keep guys off his body not only as a pass for sure, but in the run game. So to me, you're going to look at him. You're going to say he's a little bit smaller. but when you watch the tape and you see how good he is as a technician and then you i mean i know he didn't run i'm not really worried about it i think he i mean he's plenty quick on tape i think he's

going to go in the first round and i think you were right all along with him yeah and i think part of it is yes he didn't he didn't run the 40 but he's the only pass rusher to combine rubbing running a sub seven second three cone actually he's the only pass rusher period who ran a second three cone six nine four and then combine that with a 34 inch arm 16 to have sacks last year fbs best for as a rock that's i was just looking it up right now 1.38 sacks per game and now you see why he's one of the the top risers from this edge class also team captain a lead intangibles okay he had 80 he had 80 tackles he had 80 tackles last year you can talk about the tackles for loss and all that's great he led the acesc and tackles for loss the sack numbers are great 80 tackles for

for an edge. That's an impressive number, man. I agree. Braden Swenson, LSU. He's my new crush. My new crush, Munch. I like him. I'm going to let you get to Nick Scorton because I'm not as high on Scorton. He's falling on my board too, but okay. Braden Swenson from LSU. I'm not going to, we're running out of time as always. Five-year player, first three to Oregon, last two at LSU, finally had his breakout year that a lot of people expected coming out of high school and all that.

58 tackles, 13 for loss, 8 and a half sacks, three pass breakups, two force fumbles last year. Here's what I'm telling you about him. He's a 3-4 outside linebacker all day long. His hands are what separate him from a lot of guys. I think he's, and it's interesting because he didn't have that breakout year into this year. But his hands, his swipe, his slap, his push-pull, his rip. Dip and bend are good, too. torso flexibility, strength to advance the rush while engaged.

Blitzes, he lines up all over the place too. Blitz is A and B gaps. Drops into coverage. Okay. He's not as much speed to power as he is craftsman. Working through blocks, hands, keeping guys off his body. I went with Kyle Van Ney. Ooh.

Thank you. Yeah. You got some good ones. today. Look at you. NASCAR package, off the ball, edge rusher. He's, listen, he's not going to set a hard edge. It's not his jam. He's got to be kind of on the move

to be effective as a run defender, but it'll lock out, locate, fast hands, disregards, blocks, all that stuff. But Kyle Van Ney. It's, you know things aren't going well in Baton Rouge when you've got an LSU edge that seems to be flying under the radar. Is that crazy?

This guy, and they've got two. I mean, they've got two defensive alignment who are the other one is Savion Jones so we should get to an minute but they've got two guys kind of flying on the radar I think Scorton by the way falls a little bit into that range of the craftsman too he's kind of the anti

Samar Stewart way more productive I don't think he's quite as talented he led the big ten in sacks when he was at Purdue in 2023 and then he was third in the SEC in tackles for loss gets off blocks he makes plays I don't think he's

as dominant he's not as big as I thought he was. He was listed at, at Texas A&M, the 270 or 280s, and then he weighed 257 at the combine. So it wasn't quite as big. And I was like, oh, now it makes sense that this guy's moving the way he is. Good player. I think he goes in the second round. I just don't think he's as dominant as I thought he was earlier on.

Femiola Dejo, UCLA. We're now on our 10th guy. And I'm still talking about guys who could. This is your guy. I love him. He's probably going to go in the third round. I've got an 80 on him. right at the end of the second.

I think he's, listen, he's an off the ball linebacker for three years, converts to Edge this past year, played a couple seasons of Cal, a couple seasons at UCLA. Energy, leadership. What he brings to the field stood out at the senior bowl,

the conversations I've had. Finished with only four and a half sacks this past year, but kind of a breakup first year at Edge, 57 tackles, 13 and a half for loss. I think he, He got better over the course of the season, too. I did too.

Kind of like a deer on ice a little bit earlier on, and then it just started to ramp up for him the longer it went. I totally agree, because early in the tape, I was like, maybe I'm a little too high. But then towards the end, he's standing guys up. Yeah. When he learned, he is powerful. Like some of these guys are speed, right?

This dude at 259 pounds, 6-3, you think off-ball linebacker, he's probably going to be like a little bit like Jalen Walker. He's more power, man. And he's got a powerful core. He fights through blocks as a violent tackler. He fits in like that three, four scheme that's looking for power at the edge, like the Eagles have, right?

Like the Steelers have, the Panthers, the Rams. Those got like Jared Vershing, like they want power to set that edge and rush off the edge. Here's the deal with him. When he learns after his ability to jack guys up and kind of get them back a little bit, offensive tackles, when he learns how to exploit those off the off balance tackles with his hands and counter moves, that's when he's going to become the next maybe Jalick's hunt. Right.

You like that? Yeah, there we go. But he's got the most important part to that, right? Not a lot of guys can do, can get the first part done, can get guys off balance with that kind of power. There's not a lot of guys like that. So it's not something that you can't fix or it's not going to get better, especially when you consider one, that he wasn't playing the position.

a year ago and two again i don't know how you go to a to a scene to the senior role where the best of the best are and within 48 hours you are the guy that people are gravitating towards when you're not the guy that walked in as the is the guy who's going to be a top 10 pick i mean the leadership in the in the way he carried himself down there i mean stood out it was hard to ignore there's so many other guys to get to we just can't i mean you've got one more i want to one more i want to touch on Landon Jackson because I spent a lot of time on him. But you get, you get J.T. Tuimo, Tuimolo, right, from, from Ohio State and his compadre, Captain Jack Sawyer, Prince Lee Umanmi Ellen from Ole Miss and his counterpart, Jared

Ivy. There's just a bunch of guys. But I watch a lot of Landon Jackson. And some people in the league in my ear on one side of the explosiveness and his ability. and his ability and his versatility and all those things. And the other guys in my ear who were just recently, paraphrase not to be a jerk, but kind of soft versus the run.

Don't like him in. Here's what I saw. Outstanding workout of the combine. 6-6-24. Insane. 4-6-8 was tied for 8th, but his vertical jump was the best, 40 and a half, 10-9 broad jump, second best,

convert speed to power. Here's the thing I like about him, though. He's this big dude, and he's got some power and some strength to work through. He's got this slippery little side step before he gets the offensive tackle. He keeps them off balance. I'm going to summarize it. I think he, I can't really be much. But you can have them as a five technique inside and all that stuff.

You don't like him there, huh? I like him there. I think if utilized specifically, he's actually way better on the right side than the left, not to get in the nitty gritty. But outside the tackle shoulder, standing up. This guy's a pretty damn good football player. You move him inside to five technique. I'm not in.

I'm not in. Interesting. Yeah. I like it. I will say just to be really quick about this, this combine was a track meet and 4-68 for a 264-pound player is insane. Like we could say it was the eighth best and it kind of waters it down of like, oh, he was the only the eighth best of the combine?

No, 468 with a 40 and that one-half-inch vertical at 264 pounds, dear Lord. Yeah, we're like 13, 14 deep. I mentioned Jack Sawyer, Savion Jones, LSU, Jordan Burr-Berge. Barron, Barron-Sorrell, Texas, Josiah Stewart, Michigan. And we're not even out of the third round yet, okay? Ashes a lot of from Louisville. Yes, stud. The McShay Show is brought to you by Fanduel.

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bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook dot fanduel dot com gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com all right Interior defensive lineman. Let's throw up the graphic if you're still awake back there, Tucker. 2025 versus three-year average. Okay. We talked about the biggest difference to me rounds two and three.

Okay, we got Mason Graham early. Then you're going to start to see this little run at the end, whether it's Derek Harmon, Walter Nolan, Kenneth Grant, maybe two or three of those guys come off the board with Mason Graham. But then, as I mentioned, Darius Alexander, Tileak Williams, Shmar Turner, Joshua Farmer, Omar Norman Lott, Alfred Collins, T.J. Sanders, Tyreon Ingram, Dawkins, Ty Robinson, Nebraska. Like, it's just ridiculous.

Okay? So the biggest difference when you look at that graphic, though, is rounds two and three. Three-year average is 6.7 in those two rounds. I have 13 interior defensive linemen graded in rounds two and three. That's twice as many, folks. So some third round guys will be available on day three is basically the takeaway of this. And there's going to be guys, if you don't get your interior defense of line in the first round or the second round, there's still dudes in the third and fourth.

Yeah. There were 10 defensive tackles taken in the first two rounds in 2010. That was the Sue, Indomicon Sue and Gerald McCoy, you remember? Gerard McCoy was so good. Yeah, so was Sue. Yeah, Sue was great, but, man, I love McCoy. I liked McCoy's tape more than Sue's. but I adored both of them.

A couple times we've seen, so that was, so go back to 2010, right? We've seen, that was 10 in the first two rounds. A couple times we've seen nine in the first two rounds in the past 20 years. But we've never seen 11 in the first two rounds. That's what we've got right here. So even if it's just 10, like that Sue McCoy year was awesome. That's what we're looking at. In 22 interior defensive linemen grade in the first four rounds is 10 more than

three year. average so tons of value here mason graham we're let me put it this way graham is that as advertised yeah his arm yeah arms are shorter than you want from a top five pick yeah like he doesn't look the part coming off the bus it looks like he's got that monk haircut and just like the body like it's not what you you think about the indomicon sues you think about you know yeah like John Henderson and Casey Hampton, like, you know, and then you look at Mason Graham, you're like, huh? But I'm going to tell you this.

Here's my biggest takeaway. He would make a grown-ass man as a defensive line coach sitting in his dark office watching tape shed a tear. Yeah. He is literally like everything you want in the guy. I want you to think back. So we mentioned I went to Richmond. You see the Richmond helmet over my shirt. which are the Richmond spiders.

We had a defensive coach. He was D-line coach to start. Then he was defensive coordinator. Okay. Joe Cullen is his name. Absolute maniac and one of my favorites I've ever come across. Couldn't stand me for a while. Then we finally started to hit it off.

He was like a lunatic. He, so Mark. Yeah, I think he still is. I love him. But I think he still is. But I also want people to understand. He's now the Kansas City Chief's defensive line coach. And he's been to several spots.

including the Baltimore Ravens. Like he knows what he's doing. I used to listen to him running scout team over like 200 yards away on the other field, listen to him screaming at Mark Megna, who's a dear friend of ours. Yep. Who was drafted. Like, Mark Megna was, as he would say, a fat little kid from Fall River, Massachusetts. Yeah.

Fall River, to my knowledge, has produced two great things. Chris Herron, basketball. and Mark Magna, you don't, you don't come out of Fall River very often and get a full ride to go play, go play football. And then, and then to beat morods, he clings on to this guy named Joe Cullen. And he literally follows him around every single day. And he's like walking from class to class. I'm watching him rip, swim, dip, swat, like moves on all of us as he walks by us, you know? Right.

picked up every little bit of craft everything that was being handed from him from joe colin who was just a he was a you mass graduate came to richmond to coach defensive line it turns out now he's in the NFL for like 15 years or so now winning super bowls one of the best yeah one of the best he had the green he started the green ball craze at the yeah the combine okay so i watched a human being come from this kid in fall river massachusetts who was kind of like Like, no, to get to Richmond, you don't go to Richmond to go to the NFL. Very few do. We're fortunate to have a few guys that did.

Sean Barrow or Mark Magnon on that defensive side. He picked up every little thing. Paris Lenin, yep. But he picked up every little detail. And how did he do that? He did it by an insane human being and Joe Collins screaming bloody murder all day long about violence, violence, mock. He's from Malden, Malden or Medford, I forget. Massachusetts like,

Ma, Mark, get your hand, work at violence, violent, screaming, right? And I could hear Mark yelling back, come on, come on, like going nuts, right? Yeah.

But that's how they, that's how they communicated, screaming and yelling and intensity and violence and hands and all the little things that they worked on constantly. Then we would get to games before the games, and Mark would come in and it would be like,

you know, in this trance, like a zombie and ready to go out and kill somebody, and you were literally worried that if you like, stepped on his cleat or something. Right. You might stand his way.

You might wind up in the hospital. And then Joe Cullen comes in pregame. And players have been throwing up in the trash can. And Joe Cullen throws him up in the trash can. And he's throwing the trash can around the locker room and screaming, Red Rum! Murder! Murder!

And Mark's like, yeah, coach, yeah. And go out and would execute all these little fine details. So I say all that. I literally am sitting here in this dark room watching this tape. And I'm watching, like, now I'm watching. I'm stacking all these guys and I'm refined and I know exactly what I'm looking. And I'm watching. I'm like, Joe Cullen would shed a team.

Oh, yeah. This is what it's supposed to look like. And that's why in a class that doesn't have elite talent at the top, he may not be body beautiful. He may not, he didn't run a 40. He had a little Nick. He doesn't have the long arms. You don't care because what he does translates to brilliance at the next level.

That's my coach Colin story. Derek Harmon Oregon I was way too low on a man I've come full circle I was too I'm glad you I love them I love them I do too go ahead you tell you wrong well my biggest

beef is that I'd watch all of his sacks earlier in the year and I kind of felt like some of the sacks were like freebies you know I'm not gonna lie I felt like he got some of these flush towards him whatever and then I went back and I watched every pass rush and I was like oh no this guy wins a lot this guy wins with his hands a lot.

He is a talent and pass rusher. And that's what separates a lot of these guys. To be clear, I think that's something we should point out with defensive tackles. A lot of good run stoppers, man, but who can get to the quarterback? Who's a guy that can stay on the field when that package comes in, where they want to get after the quarterback? Or you even can do it on first and second down. And for me, Derek Harmon, that's where he kind of sets himself apart. I got him as my number two defense tackle now.

He wins with his hands and he's athletic. He is a hell of a defensive tackle. He's got 34 and 3.3. three eighths inch arm length. And he uses every bit of that length beautifully. Great job advancing the rush while engaged. When you have those long arms, you can advance it. Excuse me while keeping.

I can't even do the red rum murder story without like having a reaction. They used to do it all day long. He's just slippery too. As the more I watch, the more I appreciated, 495 he runs 6, 4.5, 313 pounds. But it's not even about the traits. It's what you're talking about. it's understanding, working off a half a man, offensive tackles, advancing rushes. His pass rush win rate, mensch for PFF.

And again, I just, this is for context, but 99th percentile. I think, I see a little Brian Brazzi. And remember, Brazzi got drafted. I love him coming out, yeah. But really liked his tape, but hadn't quite put it together because he had been nicked up and stuff. Harmon, that's not the case.

Plus, I love the fat, like the Jim Nagy story, like the attention that he placed and he basically had a rebirth from Michigan State to Oregon. He's taking care of his body.

He looks like a different human being for Michigan State. So the commitment is there. Here's another guy that I'm in love with. And there's, I don't know exactly in the pinpointing, but there's some, mature decisions in the past kind of stuff and blah,

and I'm sure it's true. Here's what I'm going to tell you with James Pierce and with some of these guys and with Walter Nolan, who's the next guy up. I don't need a saint rush in my quarterback, man. No. As long as you're not worried about like something major and you feel like you've got some leadership in the building,

I don't think his stuff is severe. Right. Okay. I think people like to, get stuck on things. And I'm sure there's some maturing he's got to do with many other guys. But I know this. When I put on his tape, there ain't a thing wrong with his motor,

his toughness, his commitment to the game. He's a menace versus the run. Okay? He can play three technique. He can play five technique. He's gotten better every year. Wonded up with a career high, 14 tackles for law.

13 games in his only season at Ole Miss. I love the fact I can play him all over the defensive line, okay? I was yet to develop. I'll give you this. If you're a detractor, if you're a guy who doesn't like him, I will give you this. While he's the most physically gifted, he might be the most physically gifted interior defensive line.

And he's up there in the conversation. And he also has plenty of college experience at big time programs. But why hasn't he developed a highlight? level pass rush in terms of his moves and his plan. That's the question. But if he gets with that right veteran group, man, where teams are drafting at the end of the first round, you think about teams like, you know,

teams that are winning organizations that have the right people in place, I think he can have kind of a Milton Williams type art. Who? You said his name yet. Walter Nolan. Did you say Walter Nolan? I thought you were saving it for this big reveal at the end. Walter Nolan.

I thought I did. This is my guy, man, and I'll say this. I get it a little bit with the password stuff. I think it's overblown. This dude had six and a half sacks last year. Yeah. He had six and a half sacks for a defensive tackle. Not a bad number, man.

Six and a half sacks. That's pretty good to me. I get it. Does he have all the tools to become a very productive interior passers in the league? Yeah, absolutely. I just said he's arguably, he's not as long as, as, as, Harmon, but like in terms of just like what you see like physically and how he bursts and the strength of power on tape, on tape, he's up there as the was one of the

most physically gifted guys in this class. It's a season of nitpicking. You're nitpicking if you're upset with Walter Nolan's pass rush right now. I just think you are. I get it. You could say, I think you could say what you said. It's not as polished as you wanted to be right now. I think you'd say that about a lot of players coming out.

There's a lot of guys that need to clean it up. I mean, I think he can get after the quarterback. I think there's a lot of untapped stuff there too, man. Yeah. Yeah. Kenneth Grant. Are we projecting or are we grading what he was in college or are we projecting what he's going to be in the NFL?

There you go. Kenneth Grant, Michigan, 6.3.5, 331 pounds. Runs a 507, which is pretty phenomenal. I thought he might run a little bit better, all the hype. He was, he's tough, man. He is tough. You can kind of have. them right he's massive he's he's mad i dropped him he's the fourth defensive tackle for me he's

got all the traits and and let's put this way okay he picks his spots when he's truly going to turn it loose and when he does in those moments it's pretty awesome to watch okay size power when his pads are low enough mobility there's some things but keeping him fresh and approving his hand-to-hand combat skills is going to be a part of it. He's massive. So he inevitably, inevitably, just due to his size is going to eat up a lot of space. Okay. He has a lot of impact snaps.

But there are also a whole lot of snaps where it feels like he's just kind of going through the motions to get his. Remember the time we sat down with Teddy Brewskin and we were talking. I think, and he was talking about, yeah, he's like, there's some guys that like to say, Hey, coach, they just get their arms up and they put it in for one half a sec, like a split second. They're like, coach, take a picture. I set a hard edge, but they're just not hard edge setting guys. Right.

Yeah. He just leaves you wanting more. I want more. Even the workout left me wanting more. And it's a pretty good workout. But I wanted to see him. One, he didn't work out of the combine because of a hamstring that they found there. It has nothing to do with some guys I hear minor hamstrings.

I'll be honest. And I'm like, uh, maybe you just don't want to work out today. That was one they found at the combine and said, you know, where they were doing all their scans. And they said, maybe not a good idea to work out right now. So that's in fairness to him. But I thought the car, I thought he's going to run a sub five. This guy's a freak, man.

He's just going to be the biggest freak ever. And he's any, don't get me wrong. Crazy. There was a lot of like, there's a player too where you're like, oh, I haven't seen that since of Jordan Davis. There's like a player too when he's chasing down and running back. And he's right. Right.

Right. Like get out of here with that. Jordan Davis ran a 4-7-8 at 3-4. Right. And showed, I don't know. So I think he could go late first. The trades are there. There's a lot to work with.

But again, we got to read. I'm not taking him in the first. Darius Alexander. I like him. There's work still to be done coming out of Toledo. Loved him at the senior bowl. He was awesome. I think you can move him up and down the line.

Absolutely. Absolutely. He's a three technique that can play multiple spots along the D. defensive. I love his length, explosive first step, and natural power. Really nice dip, bend, flexibility. You don't see many guys that can do some of those things that he did. Okay. But his lack of sack production is kind of frustrating. You know? Yeah. Yep. That's right my report. At Toledo, 26 games, 13, 13 tackles for lost, seven and a half sacks. Why? Yeah. Now, we get into the pre-draft process and we're inching closer to.

to it. Pit game. Awesome. Yeah. Pick six. Was part of causing another pick six. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Right. Combine workout I mentioned six, almost six four, three oh five, four nine five. He had the senior bowl week. Fourth best 10 yard split. Third best, um, or fourth best three cone, right? Great senior bowl week, all part of the pre draft, not in chronological order. I really like him. I really like him. But I'll say this. Like, he's going to need, I think he's going to need a year to sharpen his blades.

I think he's a future impact three technique that can move around. I think you're going to want to draft him in the second round probably and have him in a rotation, but not counting on him to step right in and be that guy right away. Yeah. Home run day two pick. Tileak Williams, another guy. Very interesting to me. He's massive.

334 pounds and almost six foot three. I'll just leave it at this. Despite that frame, he's actually better suited, I think, to play nose tackle in a one gap. Interesting. I don't think he's like the space eating two gap. Oh, no, no, I agree with that. He's, he, keep him fresh, limited snaps, okay?

But his, like, it's kind of jaw, like you and I both are jaws would drop in watching that combine workout the way he moves. And I'll say this, like, it comes in spurts. but I think he could be a high-impact player if he's used properly and playing in a rotation. I think round two, I'd draft these big, strong, balanced, grown-ass men, more often than not, they translate. Now, there is a Mazy Smith for every reader in Duran Payne. Okay. Yeah.

But I think DJ Reader is a decent comp. Okay. Because a one gap, nose tackle, penetrate, move around, not going to play him 100 snaps again. You think you can get to the quarterback? Some, or at least move him off his spot. He moved off the spot. He moved off a lot of six last year.

I was a little underwhelmed with the- five and a half sacks the last two years, sir. I was a little overwhelmed with the pass rush. I thought he was a better pass-wrest runner. I thought he was a better pass-wrested coming into the year. And then when I went back and looked at all the pass-wrests, snaps. It was a little underwhelmed with him because he does move well. I thought he was going to be more of a factor there.

Outstanding run defender, though. Outstanding. All right. I'm going to rip through some of these guys because we've gone long and you jump in wherever you want. Shamar Turner. He's got the injury dealing with that. Had a rod inserted his leg, had required surgery, sat out of the combine workouts, participated in position drills only at the recent Texas A&M Pro Day, but a week, five days ago, maybe. He's a

Greatest 2023 tape Yes Great is 2023 tape That's what I would do with him One gap inside interior defensive linemen I just watched it I love his position versatility I think it's going to appeal to a lot of teams on day two

Played multiple spots at A&M Very clearly suited to be a one gap penetrator Whether I like to because everyone's like he's a three technique And yeah he can play some firing through that B gap But I really really liked him as a one gap like a shaded nose right they can do both yep like the the one you know um slight frame won't hold his ground versus double teams saw that on tape a lot but his combination

of lightning quick hands fast eyes locate the ball long arms big hands for his frame relentless motor i he just appeals to those teams that are looking for that you know the penetrating disruptive types i yeah namdi madabweke ravens was a was that's a good i mean that's yeah that's not a bad comfort kid Joshua farmer i've got as the 8th defensive tackle we're still in round two i could see a role he was a little different 6 3305 35 inch arms yeah that's like that's a thing man that's a thing and this is and that's part of i think his greatest assets or his length leverage and power i think he's

you make a really good five technique. Don't disagree. I think he can play a little three. It can be disruptive a little bit, but I like him with his power, lock those long ass arms out, and work from there. Locate the ball, work from there.

Here's what I would say with him. His arrow's still pointing up. I think he's going to still get better, but I don't see an extraordinary ceiling. Right. He's going to get better. Yeah. Right.

Chris Jenkins, Bengals, is who I gave him for a cup. Okay. Here's the last guy I'll get to, and you can go through anyone else you want. Omar Norman Lott, who I obviously. Thank God, man. I was afraid you weren't going to bring him up. I got him at nine. Undersize, just under 6-2, a shade under 6-2, 291 pounds.

Good arm length, 33 and 3 quarters for his, especially for that frame, massive hands. He's a different evaluation, though, right? because he played less than half of the snaps that the other guys played. And so you don't get the catalog of plays, first of all. Second of all, he's a lot fresher when he's on the field. So you get a kind of account for that because Brandon Graham played 548. Grant played 547. Harmon played 591.

Nolan played 587. Alexander at Toledo played 630. Tyleek played 586. Farmer played 513. he played less than half of those guys. 225 snaps. So that was, it's interesting,

right? But he's got athletic traits. He's got athletic traits and he's got power. And he's going to succeed in the NFL because he's a three technique who I just love the energy he brings to the field. I love watching him work in practice and in the details he was working on. And yes, he's going to get knocked off his feet sometimes. Yes, he needs to broaden his past rush arsenal.

him but you bring him in as a one gap guy and work him in a starting rotation allow him to stay fresh sharpen those tools as a pass rusher you might just have Kobe Turner on your hands yeah I could see that I love him I mean you mean you were the first one to like really kind of bring attention to him and yeah I was I'm glad you got to him I have my seventh best defensive tackle I think he's that good I can say someone I was you got someone else I was to say someone I was underwhelmed with. Go. I'll go negative and then positive.

Jordan Phillips from Maryland. Underwhelming tape, man. Underwhelming production, underwhelming tape. He was someone that I thought coming in, because, I mean, he's a former wrestler. He's a former bodybuilder. You see the way he's built.

He's built to be a nose tackle. I mean, he's just born to be a nose tackle. And then I just don't think he gives you much against the pass rush. I think he's got to get better at getting off blocks. I was watching the tape, and I kept thinking, when is this going to start to happen and you know about halfway through, you're like,

yeah, I don't think it is. Very underwhelmed. I think he's going to be a midday three guy. I think he's going to drop a little bit on my board. But also, the Ole Miss disrespect, man. I know you mentioned Jared Ivy, the defense event. My guy defensive tackle, J.J. Bekees.

Another guy that I think. Did you hear how he was announced to the Ole Miss Pro Day? No, how was it? Offensive weapon. I know he did all the drill. I saw that. I didn't know they announced him like that. I love it.

I love it. I just think he's sneaky. He's just sneaky underrated, man. I think him and Ivy that both of those guys are guys that I think going to end up being in my top 100. I just think they're that good. I'm going to give you my sleeper. And I've mentioned him before. Tierra.

I want to talk about him. Go. Go. Go. Go. No, no. About Tyrion Ingram Dawkins? Yeah.

No. Oh, you're talking. Okay. I want to talk about him. Yeah. So former. five-star recruit. Reserve role as a freshman, right? And kind of understandably so when you're playing behind Jalen Carter, Jordan, Dave. DeVante Wyatt. Okay.

Always keep it in mind with Georgia guys. Broke into the rotation in 2022. Still playing behind Jaylon Carter and also Nazer Stackhouse who continue to be there. Poised to elevate in 2023. Preseason injury, though, sets them back. Yep. Then in 2024, he finally comes, comes and it's not the breakout year with the consistency and there's a lot to develop here but you got to dig in on this guy because he's he's yes stupid talented i'm telling you yes i watch all these other guys 11 guys before i got to actually at 14 guys before i got to him i moved him up because i all those guys i had ranked ahead of him i watched him and then i got to him and i'm like shit he's different than a lot of these guys yes okay so now i go back and i and i

and I read Kirby Smart. I haven't talked to anyone there about him because we're talking about players probably fourth round. I want to read. And I was like, oh, this is actually an enlightening quote. You don't often get this. But someone asked about Ingram Dawkins coming into last year. Why hasn't it worked out?

But, but health and besides, this is a quote, health and besides health, his work ethic. And I was like, oh, God, here we go. He's always been a pretty good football player. He's a great kid. He's been in the dumps because of his foot. And so you'd see him every day. and had more of a smile on his face he's got a beautiful great mom and she's been great in communicating with us he's considered the port he considered the portal at one time and he talked about his frustrations

with us but it was really more about the injury than it was anything else so that's coming into the year and he plays better this year i want you to understand he's six foot four and three quarters 276 33 and a half inch arms runs a four eight six okay 4-68, which was tied for second best of the interior defensive line. 1-6, 9, 10-yard split tied for best. Best in both the vertical jump at 36-inch vertical, which is outrageous. And 10-4 broad jump. Best in both the, and best in both the short shuttle, 434 and 3-4 and 3-4.

So now I watch the tape. His initial power and snap and his ability to toss human beings is not normal at all. he's sometimes like it's obvious he doesn't know have a clue what to do next when he like he's there's so much but if i'm a joe cullen oh my god if i'm a d-line coach in the league and i'm like why aren't we taking him we're around pick hundred why aren't we taking him i don't know i you don't hear a lot to talk about him and he has that combine work and it's still been quiet but i i would draft this guy late third early fourth and would be thrilled to get to work. I watched his pass rush versus his run defense. I watched his pass rush first,

and then I watch all the run defense snaps. And I'm watching him. Like, oh, he's kind of seen some glimpses here, some interesting things. And then I threw on the run defense, and I was like, holy God, if I as a former offensive lineman, I was like, I would want no part of this kid. No part. Zero, zero part. And I don't care where he lines up, by the way. And he's lined up a one technique three technique down five technique he's standing up as an edge he's just he's just you know he's just handling offensive tackles he's splitting double teams he's overpowering guards i'm watching if so here's the thing that was really interesting though like the aggressiveness he has as a run defender yes versus the aggressiveness that he has as a pass rusher

and it's not an effort thing it just it's it's kind of it feels like what you're saying i think he's a lot confidence thing it feels like i'm not as comfortable doing this yet if you unlock lock him as a pass fresher and you get that run defender I man I think I don't think third round is too early for him I was I thought he was one of the more fascinating players I've watched because he has the crazy good talent and the run defense is I already think is outstanding I gave him a one for run defense I already think he's a one run defender and then you're looking at that pass rush and it's probably a three maybe a four at this point but you're looking at what is he going to be in a year or two or three years like this guy's this guy has all the tools

If you can unlock him, watch out. I could just see Howie Roseman doing it again. Yep, here we go again, right? Yep. Just like he did, Milton Williams. Yep. But also the Georgia connection. Yep.

Get this first round talent, like raw, raw piece of clay. But first round traits, right? Not first round player, first round traits in round three or early, round four. I could just see him swinging at that one. That's it. So much for revenue. I'm fired up. Here we are, right?

We got some quarterback stuff. We got all the whole defensive line. Thursday. Top 150. I'm releasing it. Turned it in, but I'm going to make some changes, of course, just a needle. Dan and Connor.

No, we're pretty close. and Thursday we're going to cover the top 150. We're going to get some of the linebackers. Only a handful of guys we've got to get to there on Thursday. And then I can't wait. I can't wait to get to LA. I'm so I've got to announce it today. I've got a meeting with Connor that we've already 40 minutes late for

and he's probably going to yell at me. That's fine too. But we appreciate you watching, listening, being a part of this. Thank you. With us, it's only going to get better down the stretch. And Mench, talk to you Thursday, brother. Yeah, man. See it.

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