The McShay Show - CJ Carr vs. Julian Sayin: Talking Traits, NFL Comps, Ceilings, and More

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Welcome back to the McShay Show! In the aftermath of CJ Carr’s impressive Manning Passing Academy showing, Todd and Steve are rewinding the game tape and handing out their preseason grades for the Notre Dame quarterback. They’re also sharing their scouting report on Ohio State’s Julian Sayin, and revealing which QB they think has a better chance of succeeding in the NFL.(00:00) Welcome to The McShay Show!(02:00) The latest on Brendan Sorsby(05:17) Addressing John Mateer's mechanics(09:13) Building the Board: CJ Carr vs. Julian Sayin(11:48) Takeaways from the tape(30:49) CJ Carr's biggest strengths(37:54) Julian Sayin's biggest strengths(48:05) Head-to-head gradesMake your rise with the MVP Bundle. Pre-order now.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines.Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Abou Kamara Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our building the board, 27 quarterback class series continues today with two elite college quarterbacks from two blue blood programs in college football. Julian Sayin from Ohio State versus C.J. Carr, Notre Dame. But where do they stack as NFL prospects is the question? And guess what? This is our last show with 300 plus days until the NFL draft. 301 to be exact. You good, Minch?

I'm excited, man. Me too. Tucker, roll that thing, man. A couple of business things to take care of. A little housekeeping? Yeah, a little housekeeping, but not like the usual schedule is coming up. And you can find us on Netflix. We appreciate you watching on Spotify and listening on Apple and everywhere else you get your podcast, not that stuff.

This episode is presented by EA Sports College Football 27, where you can engineer your team the way you want. And if you want the full football experience, try the MVP bundle. I'm already getting pressure from the boys in this house. We got to get it. We got to get it, right? Well, I'm going to cave. You get college football 27, Madden NFL 27, plus deluxe edition rewards in both games

to help you go from campus legend to NFL superstar. Make your rise with the MVP bundle. Pre-order now. Conditions and restrictions apply. C.E.a.com slash games slash EA-Sha-Sha-Sha. sports dash college dash football slash college dash football dash 27 slash game dash disclaimers for details pro move sneaking it in there thank you brennan sorsby it's been the summer of sorsby so you knew i was going to have to say something today about sorsby let's get it out of the way

quickly congratulations bernan you did the right thing we did a whole i mean i did a whole PSA on take your medicine, be accountable. Don't file a lawsuit against the NFL. It's big tobacco. It's big pharma. It's not worth it. I've talked to people in the league. What they want to see is you, A, continuing to get right.

B, get your mind and body right for the 2027 NFL draft. C, and probably most importantly, and it was basically stated, right, for him to read by the NFL when they made that press release, right? Do some self-work, actually be accountable, take ownership for what you did, and the next time they hear your voice, it needs to be your voice, not someone else is representing your voice, and you need to, when we hear him come out and make a statement at some point, to actually be contrite, show admission, show, apologize, essentially apologize for what you've done. to, and it's the big boy table now.

And the big boy sitting at the table want to see, hey, we've all made mistakes. You're not the first. This one is a mistake that is like, and right or wrong, we can have all the debates we want about some of the other charges and individuals who have to go through the legal system first and the NFL slaps on some kind of suspension.

Like this in sport from Pete Rose and beyond, this has been like the blacklist item. right? This is where you just, you, so, so show that you've done some work, show that there's a plan, show that you understand what you've done, and start preparing for the 2027

NFL draft. One bit of news that I shared a little bit on X, I talked to some people. I, shoot, I talked, I talked to Drew Fabianich, the Senior Bowl executive director. He's been invited, Brendan Sorsby,

to play in the Senior Bowl, all indications are, he will play in the senior bowl. So that's great. Yeah. Circle that date. Doesn't have to be the only All-Star game you're playing. I'm not saying that's the only one. I'm saying it's the best one.

Get ready for that. Make that your coming out party. Show to everyone. I've gotten right. I understand what I did. My mind is right. I've worked with a veteran quarterback. I've put in the work.

Mentally, physically, I'm ready to go. So there's a clear path now for Sorsby. Yeah. And he's there as much to talk to teams as he is to show what he can do in the field. I mean, all the teams will be there. It gives him a great opportunity to sit down face to face with people and explain what happened. So I view that as a positive, a little sign of maturity and understanding reading the room. Okay.

So the second thing I wanted to get to, which is far less, I don't know, controversial. It's not headline news, but it has been all over social media. and we did our big Manning Passing Academy recap. I talked to you about John Mateer. We had a good laugh about the picture that went viral and he's jacked up and are we worried a little bit because the previous quarterbacks who have looked like that, like, you know, just getting ready for a weightlifting competition, you know,

bodybuilding. I told you I thought he looked good after that very first throw that I saw and I was like, oh no. You know? Right. I saw the same thing everyone saw. Mechanically, he has worked to adjust his release point to what he's dealing with with the thumb injury. And the lower body, we always talked about it.

Like, the fact that he's able to throw that accurately and make some of the throws that he does with the lower body mechanics all over the place is remarkable. He's, he's, he's, I think I, I told him this got, it's a blast to watch. Yeah. And I drew the correlation to Scotty Sheffler. You know, like, don't try this at home. It is not, it's not like what's being taught at the coaching clinics and all the quarterback camps that you go to, right? But it works for him. I wasn't blind to his mechanics look. I don't want to say entirely different, but buttoned up, he looks like. And I talked about like 1,500 campers are all going to these quarterback. camps and they all have that same lower body, hip thrust, short stride, all of that. Well, he's adopted that.

The reason I was skeptical to make it a big thing is, as we've seen from like my CJ Car report, if we come out, if I come out and say something like, you know, it is, and I'm adamant about something, it tends to take on a life of its own. I think that's wonderful. And it's something I've earned and we've earned through 26 years now of, of scouting prospects to the NFL. I was hesitant to get into all of that because I'm a golfer and I go to the driving range and I make all sorts of tweaks that I'm certain that I'm going to stick to when I get on

the course and then all of a sudden you're in the fourth hole and pressure's building or you hit a bad shot and you wind up going back reverting to previous mechanics, right? 100%. Mateer's mechanics look beautiful. They look like everybody else's who's now. buttoned up and is not throwing overhand and striding long. Like he is like, but I want to see it in the game. I saw him warming up in the side.

You know what I mean? So yes, he has worked diligently. And it's important to state this. He has worked diligently to make his throwing delivery more repeatable. He has, he's working to get his lower body instead of jumping in the air and feet. all over the place and slinging it. I'm excited to see it. I was hesitant to talk too much about it because I don't want to,

I don't want to make that at a point of emphasis where everyone's now clipping it off and throwing it out in social media. But I am thrilled to see what he's done because it's exactly what you and I talked about when he went from Washington State to Oklahoma. If he got with someone and was able to get his foot mechanics down and be more repeatable with that stroke, he's just super talented, man. So is there a level of excitement that I have?

And I know you share Mench with Mitya and what he can offer this year with some of those adjusted mechanics? Absolutely. I'm pumped to watch it. And I'm sure everyone in Norman, Norman, Oklahoma is too. But I want to see it when the bullets start flying. So I get it. Just wanted to get both those things out of there, out there.

big show today, man. I'm interested to see where this one goes. Me too. You got CJ Carr coming off a year where he was 10 and 2 for Notre Dame. They missed the college football playoff, didn't play in a bowl game, played 12 games. Both Carr and Julian Sayan, who played in, what was he? He was 12 and 2. He started 14 games.

Both quarterback started. every game last season. Both quarterback stayed healthy. Both quarterbacks showed a ton of promise as first year starters. Both quarterbacks are red shirt sophomores. So interestingly enough, while guys like Jeremiah Smith and other underclassmen are in the national list and the Bresto list, first time ever we've seen that many, like that high a number of top tier underclassmen in the preseason scouting lists, if you will,

National and Blesto, and talking to scouts. We've gotten to a point with NIL transfer portal where it's like throw it all out the winner. Even the All-Star games now. It's like underclass men are playing in the senior bowl, right? So with that said, absent from those lists and some of the conversations, and I shared with you some of the texts I got from GMs and people in the league, there's no car in there, there's no saying in there.

So we're doing this with the, the, like cautiously entering in saying, we recognize they red shirt in 2024. They both started every game possible in 2025. This will be their red shirt sophomore year, their third year playing in college football, second year starters. But they absolutely have the opportunity to return to school.

In fact, they have two years remaining. And so maybe that was the cutoff with the National Emblesto. Right. If they have one year remaining after this and they've utilized their eligibility the first two years, then we'll include them. My assumption is that's what they did. So Carr insane could absolutely, with great seasons, be in the 2027 class. They also could go back to school for not one but two more years. Right.

And Manning can go back for one. Some of these guys that we're talking about still have another year of eligibility. So that's where we stand on all of it. And as we've started every one of this series, this is part three of our Building the Board, 2027 quarterback class. I want to start with a simple question. Mench, what was your biggest takeaway

when you dove into the tape on Carr and Sane? I'm going to go to, I'm going to do a two-fer. I'm not supposed to do that, I know. I'm trying to make it quick, though. Both, I love that both are accurate passers without being checked down Charlies. Both are in top 10 and yards per attempt last year. And I think they will, when they get a chance to strike deep, they will take advantage.

But they're also accurate passes underneath. And I think that both, based on the progress they made, I will say saying, I think this is more so for saying. But both, the reason we are talking about them now, even though they have so much eligibility left, have the minds and the brains to make the jump to the NFL after this year. I like that. I like that. We'll get into the check down Charlie stuff a little bit more in detail

specifically when it comes to saying. My biggest takeaway is, honestly, my biggest takeaway, and I have a different point, my biggest takeaway watching these guys was how impressive they both were as first year starters for those programs. Yes.

If you want like the truth serum. Now I'll get to more of the scouting stuff in a second, but like my true serum, is I'm watching these guys and I'm like, there's nothing about this. It indicates like fifth start or ninth start. You know what I mean? Because of how sharp they are mentally,

how well they understand concepts, how well they understand their roles within their respective offenses. One quarterback in San Juan has this NFL receiver room. And there's a solid run game, but I think it'll be even more prevalent with Bo Jackson, and kind of really coming into his own later in the season. And year two, right?

And Carr in an offense that didn't necessarily have great weapons, and it certainly wasn't about the passing game first, but had two running backs that were first round draft picks, the top two backs off the board, in Jeremiah Love and Judarian Price. So to, like, the understanding of what his role was within that offense, and when it was important for him to be aggressive versus when it was important for him

to do the smart thing because he knew he had two backs behind him that were absolute superstars, right? Yeah, two first round backs. I mean, one in top five pick. Yeah, I mean, this is crazy talent in the backfield. That was my first takeaway. The second one was specifically, I love Julian saying.

I loved a lot of the things I saw from him. but my biggest takeaway was I do see a difference between the two. Yes. In fact, if I want to drill deeper, I honestly believe after watching his tape in year one, I'm not saying he's there yet. I see a path where when CJ Carr's career at Notre Dame is over, that he's the best Notre Dame quarterback that we've seen in our lifetime.

Oh, man. I wish I knew you were to go there. We're talking, did Joe Montana play in Notre Dame? In our lifetime. Okay. All right. All right.

So, I mean, we were alive when Montana was playing for the Niners, right? But I get what you're saying. I don't know that we were when he was in Notre Dame. I certainly wasn't watching Notre Dame.

It would have been close. Yeah, you were not scouting Montana. I mean, there was Brady Quinn. There was Claussen. There have been other guys. There's been a lot of success here and there.

Yeah, he's the best quarterback Notre Dame's had during our lifetime. I don't feel like that's much of a limb. Like, I don't feel like, yeah, I got you. I think that might be true. Okay. I don't, but I also don't, I'm not blown away by all the former Notre Dame quarterbacks unless I'm missing somebody. I get it.

I think, so most importantly, I think he has a chance to be absolutely sensational. I think CJ Carr is tracking towards being a legendary Notre Dame coach. I mean, I think CJ. car is tracking to become a legendary Notre Dame quarterback. I really did. Let's get into the weakness. What's you got to do better to get there? What's held them back from getting there right now?

There were moments. They were, the encouraging part about the weaknesses, the weaknesses I saw from C.J. Carr is they were predictable and understandable as a first year starter. And I didn't see a ton of them. Yep. So a lot of this early, I thought the USC game, even though they won by, I think, 10 points might have been his worst tape. Not a good game.

I thought the pit tape was not, was underwhelming too. Okay. With you. Two interceptions in the pit game, the run gate. Like, every time I'd look up as I'm clicking through my remote here, like, oh, it's 14 to 3, it's 21. You know, like, they were just, Jeremiah Love had a legendary game. A dead. He had a day.

Game day there, the whole deal. So, but, and I always look for trends. Like, is this a consistent problem or is this a one-off? The one trend I saw was there were moments where I felt like you could see a little bit of the inexperience first time through as a starter. The USC game specifically, I saw trying to do too much. I mean, the red zone pick is a clear example. He's running around with a chicken, like a chicken with his head cut off. Plus both ways, threw under duress, didn't see the undercutting defender intercepting the red zone.

So it's like multiple critical errors, right? And there were some misthrows in that game that I didn't see a ton of. I do think sometimes when he's on the roll, when things on the move, right? When he's rolling out, things are getting a little hectic that that, that, accuracy that I'm a real big fan of when things are precise, when he's going. And my gosh, we'll get to the strengths in a minute, but like, progressions and then just drilling strikes when he's got a little time in the pocket. When things get a little hectic and he's rolling, rolling out, he makes some great throws,

but he'll miss some really easy throws, right? So you combine a couple of those points there, and I think it's all correctable. and I think like I said, pretty much understandable for a first year quarterback, dealing with a lot. Mind has spent. Remember, he wasn't,

it was at Minci. There was talk last camp that Minci might be the starter. He was fighting for the job. He's at Kentucky now, yeah. So he's Lloyd Carr's grandson. He's been around ball his whole life. He understands it.

I talked to you about what I saw at the camp and how advanced he is in terms of reading coverage, his concepts, like he's just kind of a coach playing that position, but he's still a first year starter who redshirted in 2024

and winds up winning the job and is battling his ass off for his life for that starting job, gets it and starts playing really, really well, but there's some moments where you're like, yeah, I can see why it took a little bit for Notre Dame to A, name the starter, and I can see where the progress has to come.

So for me, those are kind of the weaknesses that I saw in Cars game. What about you? A couple other things. I totally agree with everything you're saying. Most of this is fixable, which is what's so exciting about him, is that it's, and again, let's remember Miami and Texas A&M out the gate. Thank you very much for that. Thank you for my-

Not at all dissimilar from Arch having to go to Columbus. Yes. Facing Matt Patricia and all those first rounders. Yes. So he deserves a ton of credit for the way he bounced back from that. Two other things I'll say. He is absolutely no threat as a runner. And the mobility is me.

I think the mobility is meh. So there's that aspect of it. I think he's okay in the pocket. He's a three. I gave me a three. What did you give him? I gave him a two because I really, I liked him in the pocket,

but I would have given a two point five. Yeah, like I get it. I get it. I don't see the two. I gave him a three. The other thing I want to see is, I mean, when I went back and watched Miami, Texas, A&M for a guy,

who's making his first two starts, the tape was better than I remembered him playing, okay? That being said, who is this dude played really well against, I mean, he didn't play well against USC at times. I thought the Pitt tape, again, I agree with you. Maybe USC tape, worst of tape of all of them. I didn't think he played that great against Pitt.

He didn't make enough plays in the end against those two teams, Texas A&M and Miami, and you want him to take him the next level. And I want to see that. I want to see him, a big game take over because I think he's capable. I think this guy's really capable. I want to see that.

The problem for them is the schedule's junk. The schedule's not that great, man. I mean, until Miami late in the season, he's going to have to play well against Miami late. I think they get into the playoff. I think they'll be a playoff team. We'll see. He's going to have to carry more of this team because I don't think

the running game will be as good. I mean, that just stands to reason. So he's going to get maybe, you know, I don't know how many games to really show that he can go against top flight competition. One other thing I'll mention that I, that baffles me, because we're going to get into strengths here in a second,

and I'll tell you why it baffles me. He's not as great throwing over the middle as I want him to be right now. He's weighing better outside the hashes. And I want to see, I want to see more aggressiveness, more decisiveness throwing over the middle. I agree with you that this kid is,

you know, he's been around ball and for a young player, he processes well. I would say that saying is, is a far better processor. He is far more developed. I see some Dante more graduate stuff with saying that we'll get into in a second

that I don't see with... I don't see with Carr yet at this point. I think it's also important... I hear you. I think it's also important to... Let's address the elephant in the room. There are two elephants in the room. The first one is we...

And I want to do a better job. job of this. We talk in past tense as if we've already given out a grade and it's things over. Yeah. Everything is a work in progress. We always say I gave him, I gave him. We're giving him currently and that can change. Yeah, but so people understand

me too. So people understand our process when we say gave mentioned I are giving each other the assignment of you go watch tape on saying, you go watch tape on car, I'll do the same. And as we fill out our reports, so we prepare ourselves for the show,

we gave past tense to the last 72 hours on our report, but we're giving currently, and as we watch throughout the season, that everything is subject to change based on how they play, obviously. The other elephant in the room is, and I'm not discrediting Sayin for anything,

and I'm not giving bonus points to Carr for anything. Carr had a run game that Sayan wasn't blessed with, saying through the ball a lot more, a lot more, and had weapons that are undeniable. Like, I look at C.J. Carr, and it's, it's Phason had 640 receiving yards. He's back this year. Eli Rairden, the tight end, who was drafted in the middle rounds,

618 receiving yards. Is the number two on the list of receiving yards for Notre Dame. Fields, who wound up being the third round pick? I think so. Big target, awesome senior bowl, but only 531 receiving yards, not consistently productive. And his fourth leading receiver with 280 yards was Jeremiah Love out of the backfield. Flipside.

1,243 receiving yards for the best receiver that maybe we've seen since Calvin Johnson and Jeremiah Smith. Number two receiver was Carnell Tate, who was the number four overall. draft pick. He's pretty good, too. Yeah. Then you got Innes who returns. Smith, Smith returns as the guy for the third straight year. Inest returns. He had 684. So you get to, the third receiver for Ohio State had more than the leading receiver in Faison with 640. Innes had 684. And then Max Clare had 496. And it's not just scheme. It's not just that Notre Dame wanted to run the rock with those talented backs. I mean, when you watch the tape of these talented receivers.

It's, I mean, there's a, and there's a gap. And, like, their, their, their play designs and the way they utilize them. The coaching is wonderful. And the, but the talent is also at a different level. Now, what's interesting this year is, Sayan's going to still have an elite group. Because, because in addition to Innes returning, yeah, he loses Tate and Claire, but in addition to Inis returning, you get Chris Henry Jr.

And a couple other freshmen that sound pretty. I can't wait. to see that kid. So good, in fact, that two Ohio State former five-star receivers transferred. And they both transferred to Notre Dame. Notre Dame coaching that talent. And Millen Graham is supposed to be a really good one. I hear this Quincy Porter cat, six foot four is a dude.

And folks in Columbus were like, yeah, we want Graham back, but like Porter, Porter's leaving, really? So that's going to be interesting to see as now the shift happens. for C.J. Carr of not game manager, but like know your role. Understand what's standing, yes. And yeah, the schedule allows a runway for him to get confidence going and figure out the timing and all those things. But it's going to be a different look, Notre Dame offense this year. And I'm here for it, man.

I'm here. I think they can put up numbers that they haven't put up in a long, long, long time, you know. Yeah. So with all that said, can I tell you what I love about Cars game? Did we get to weaknesses on saying? No, you want to do Sayans' weaknesses real quick? Let's do Sayans' weaknesses, yeah.

Are you worried that he's maybe tapped out, that he's closer to his ceiling than, yeah, right? So that's the thing. I've heard the Drew's Drew Brees comparison, and I love that. I love that comparison. That's the absolute ceiling. I mean, that is the ceiling.

He's not a very mobile guy. I don't think he has a very strong arm. I think he's more mobile than he's shown, but I got you. Okay, we'll see. What I saw, I am giving him a three in mobility to. Nothing special there. So there's the arm strength. I see some things where he's a great downfield pastor,

and we'll get into why when we get into the strengths. There are times he needs to put the ball on a rope. he needs to drive the ball, and I think he has a hard time doing that. He's a trajectory, lead the receiver, let him run on. Timing and touch. All gets air. Yep, yep. Yep, that's how he does it. I agree.

So when you see grambling and he's a split second late in the red zone, getting the ball out on an out breaking route, the corner can recover, jump in front of that ball and pick it off. Those are the things where he needs to be perfect with the way he processes. And that's why he'll, how does he overcome that flaw? Because he gets the ball out on time so well. And he makes such good decisions, and he's accurate. That's how he'll get over it, but it still exists.

He does not have a cannon for an arm. He's more of a distributor of the football, and quite frankly, he's a perfect fit for what Ohio State needs. Right? Because at its best, Ohio State is run the ball, awesome weapons, don't need to throw the ball a million times a game, have balance, but we've got weapons that are better than our dudes are better than your dudes. And so when we do throw the ball, we're going to get chunks, right? And so, and then also we're going to throw some quick game stuff. And Ryan Day and that coaching stuff, we're going to have some wrinkles and some different things.

Where are guys, we're going to get them on. We're going to hit you on a quick slant and five turns to 40, you know? So, and I think he, because he gets the ball out quickly, and more importantly, he, his eyes are in the right place and it's like, you know, and he'll throw it on a line. I think he's short to intermediate accuracy is exceptional. Completed 77% of his throw is one of the higher. Who is the third best behind Bo Nix and who is the other guy, Mack Jones in the history of college football?

In FBS history. As a freshman. First year starter, right, red shirt freshman. Oh, no, sorry. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But still it's his first, first year of full eligibility.

Yeah. So, but to answer your question, I don't, tapped seems really harsh, right? Yeah. He's tapped, man. Yeah, I don't like that either. I'm glad you're cleaning that up. But I like them a lot. Yeah.

And I think in the right sister, like if Tuatunga Viloa can have some success for, Oh, yeah. This guy's got more juice in his arm. And this guy, I think, if you get him in like a Mike McDaniel system, the way the Tua was utilized during the couple few years where he was really putting up massive numbers and all that, this guy can be better than that. I believe that.

Can he be Drew Brees? I'm not saying he can't be, but I agree, that's the ceiling. It's a hell of a ceiling, man. It's a hell of a ceiling. I love that 20-foot ceiling in my living room. right like that's that's a great ceiling that's but that's the track and that's that's the the high end comp everyone in the league has for that's the high end comp right yeah and so it's how

where is he between tua who has had a lot of success had a lot of success and we'll see if he's able to ever return to that uh and and drew ease yeah so all right strengths uh we talk about about making layered throws, about being able to throw into windows, to drop the ball in. His timing and touch on layered throws down the hash and outside the numbers is elite, elite. He makes some throws that remind me, and I know I'm dating myself here and whatever. Eli Manning used to make these throws at Ole Miss with these touch and timing throws that I see a lot of the same stuff with C.J. Carr, and that is the number one thing that jumped out to me. And that's why, why is he not more effective over the middle?

I think it's just more about him being aggressive and confidence. And sometimes when you throw over the middle, you're more likely to get into trouble and put the ball in harm's way. You know, I think about the pick he threw against Texas A&M where he tried to hit Jeremiah Love underneath as he's stepping up and the ball kind of sails on him. There was four verticals. And it's a tough throw to make down the scene, but it's there.

And not only is it there, it's a throw that he has the talent to make. and I want to see him make more of those throws over the middle. But he's, I mean, timing and touch on some of these layered throws is outrageous. I don't disagree. And I think even I was just watching this morning a little bit more. I'm trying to think what game. It was the pit game where I was a little underwhelmed. But I think it was the fields and the left, like down the left half.

It was like a back shoulder, placed it perfectly. he I'm just excited to watch him in year two yeah because we talk about the rinse refined repeat and listen man I loved Garrett Nussmeyer and I loved Clubnik at the Manning Passing Academy last year and I love them both because they came off of seasons where Nussmeyer showed a lot and I wasn't alone I wasn't alone in it like the highest graded player in the national list last year with a 6.5 grade was Garrett Nussmire. It was Nuss. Yeah. And Klubnik had really high grades from a lot of teams too.

But so when everyone, and I see some of the, I don't read the comments, but then like people bring it to my attention. Well, yeah, you like Klobnik and Nussmire last year? Yeah, I did. I did. I thought Klobnik, remember the run that Klobnik had late in the season? I thought it was going to be a stepping stone. Well, guess what? Everyone at Clemson failed to play to their potential last year. And so blame it on the coordinator, blame it on Clubnik, blame it on the protection, blame it,

blame it on whatever you want. The Jets still saw enough in him after a really bad year of tape to take him in the fourth round. And Nussmeyer was injured all year, man. I didn't, like, I couldn't forecast that he would have an oblique injury, have to change his entire throwing motion. So. And L.C. They're on the ball again. So I'm not apologizing or making excuses,

but when I talk about Carr, I'm, and the reason I get so excited is because I see this tape where every, like, I see the grandson of a legendary head coach because I now can see just listening to him, coach these young players, how in tune he is with what you're trying to do as he's coaching the defensive side

in a seven-on-seven drill. I see how his brain works. I hear him communicate. I look at him physically and I'm like, oh, and it's not like mature where he's going to like the beaches that way. It's the way rooms down the hall. Yeah. Right, right. It's like he's filling out. He looks like, well, proportioned. Like this is, this is the next evolution. And maybe we get one more next year before his 2027 season for the 2028 draft. Who knows what happens? But what I'm saying is, I'm seeing the areas you want to see the progress,

the areas you want to be strengths. I'm seeing that with Carr. So I'm excited. Does it mean he's going to be the first overall draft pick in the 20? No, probably not. But he could be a top 10 pick. And honestly, we'll get to the grades in a little bit. Could be the second.

Could be the first. Could be the second. Could be the third in a loaded quarterback class if he has the year that I expect him to have. Now, I can't control how he plays. or how his receivers play, or how the protection is, or his durability or any of those things. But I promise you this.

I've been around this game long enough to know, okay, that guy looks different. There's a confidence level to him. There's a way he carries himself. There's an understanding of the game. There's these mechanics as I'm watching him standing four feet away, watching him warm up and throw, like the repetitiveness,

watching him throughout different drills. He has some... When you watch Archmanning and C.J. Carr and Julian Sane and Mateer and Bailey and the Mississippi State Kid and Malik Washington for Maryland and Fafita and all these guys doing the same drills, throw into the same golf cart or moving, still target, moving target, whatever. And you watch them with Eli and Peyton. and different passing sessions, right? And one guy stands out as a little different

because of all those things I said. There's a reason. Does it mean he's going to have the best season in Notre Dame history and be the first overall pick now? But I'm not ruling anything out with this cat. I think he's got a chance to be pretty special. Does he have the physical tools of Lenora Sellers?

No. No. Does he have the upside of even Brendan Sorsby, he admired in all of the other nonsense. No, but he's in a different stratosphere in terms of where he is as a pro prospect right now after 12 starts. And that for an evaluator is exciting, man. Yeah, I hate to compliment you, but I'm going to go ahead and do this because I think people should understand that we beat ourselves up when we make mistakes. Like whoever wants to come out online and be like, oh, McShay said this.

I can guarantee you Todd was back saying, well, why, what went wrong here? How can I change? How can I be better? There is a real danger of taking that and learning from that and then letting it over impact or impact too much than the next cycle and saying, well, I'm not going to come out that strong for C.J. Carr because I came out that strong for someone else last year. That's just as dangerous to me. That's bad. Shoot or shoot.

Shoot or shoot. Yes. Yeah. Shoot or shoot. Yeah. Oh, well, this happened last year, so I'm not going to do it this year. At the same time, it's not like Todd didn't take into account what did happen last year. Both of those things can be true.

So I hate to compliment you, but I get it. And I think it's the right move. Like you stick to your guns and you trust what you know at this point. Yeah. What about saying strengths for you? His ability, especially on some of these like smash and stick concepts, these two-man routes, his ability to read corners and defensive backs and get the ball out quickly and on time and accurately is his, I mean, that's his superpower.

He, I don't understand. I have no idea how this kid is that young or that inexperienced. And he's making these reads and running offense, this offense at such a high level. That to me is just so cool and so exciting about him. And then the, but the thing that to add on top of that, though, is it's not check down Charlie to me. I'm wondering what you're going to say about that because I think when he gets an opportunity to go vertical, he takes advantage, and he is quick about it, he is decisive about it,

and that's why it works because the ball comes out quickly and he hits guys in stride because he has that touch. I thought he did, and when he did, he was pretty awesome. And yeah, there are some more, like, line, like throw it on a rope. But the Penn State game, if you want to see him at his best throwing the ball vertically, the Penn State games are really good, good tape to watch. There were three or four really good lead receivers down the field. One of them was double coverage, but I think it might have been Tate, got behind the defender

and he let it rip. And literally from where, when he threw it, where Tate was, probably 30 yards down the field that he let him an in-stride perfect ball. And there were a few of those in that game. I want to see more, man. And I get it. More of him throwing down the field. Yeah, being aggressive.

There were just jotting down notes going out through the entire season. There were, I don't want to say laundry list, but more than five. Fewer than 10, maybe, but about a throw, about a time a game where I jotted down a note, and I probably could have jotted down more, where I'm like, all right, safe, smart, got it, take the change. don't go broke and, you know, making a profit, all the stuff that you hear from coaches. However, I get Jeremiah Smith. I get Carnell Tate.

Now I'm going to have Chris. Interesting. I thought the other, I thought there were times where he just took advantage of those guys and it wasn't the right look. There was a couple times where he was like, two high looks. He's like, my guy's better than your guy.

He's going to run by that. And he still pulled the trigger. That's interesting. You see it the other way. But I don't view it. And I didn't even want to bring it up as a weakness. I don't view it as a weakness. I view it as a young man being like,

I'm a first year starter. We're loaded with talent. We're loaded with talent on this side of the ball. We're loaded with talent on that side of the ball. Like, I am holding, I have the keys to this car. I have put it in the ignition. I have turned it over, and we are going down the road. And I have got so much valuable luggage in this vehicle.

My first and foremost, I can't fuck this thing up by driving it off the road and crashing into something. Because if I can get it from A to B safely, like, you know, it's a treasure trove of what we have here. So I felt that mindset at times. I thought there were, I thought there were some times. Like, I wrote down one of them. It was an example. The interception against Indiana.

It was early in the game, first quarter, I believe. Just a quarter count late over the middle. Gosh, the quarter count. Yep, right? Not because he wasn't smart enough to see it. But I felt like it was a little bit of like, do I want to fit it in? And by the time you just said, yeah, I'm going to try to fit it in too late. And it doesn't have an elite arm.

And I don't even know if an elite arm there, I don't, when I see him throw short intermediate, there's very rarely a time where I'm like, well, if he had a little bit more, a little more energy at the end, he would have been fine here. It's not that. I just, there's still a first year start. hesitancy to his game at times. Interesting. I saw that more with Carr than what's saying.

Okay. So I'm excited for both of these guys to see what is the rinse, refined, repeat version look. Because as part of that process is I've laid out for folks. Because I've been in quarterback meetings. I've had the opportunity to sit in Ohio State's quarterback meetings when Urban was there. I know kind of what goes on and all the things that are being. coached up and I also know the process in the off season, right? And that is like you need to work on,

it's a self-scouting and he's going back and watching all these throws with his coaching staff figuring out, okay, what were our weaknesses here? Where were we predictable? What are the throws I can improve upon? And I'm going to beat myself up on these 25 throws from the season. There were critical errors or decisions or whatever, right? Then the next part is, okay, how do I then apply what I've learned in the film room to improving mentally, right, and improving mechanically and consistency-wise. There's also the part of, I want to get physically stronger.

I want to work on my quickness of my feet, all those sorts of things. But then there's this element, too, where these defensive coordinators are getting paid over a million dollars, some of them, two, three million dollars for a reason. They're pretty smart, man. They live in this film.

They're going to have a plan, and they're not stupid, because they've seen a young quarterback, watch their own tape and come back and make some adjustments. So now they want to be a step ahead in that chess match, right? Right. So is he prepared? So like there's so much to gleam from a second year starter.

In fact, that's why the Parcell's rule is there. It's why we see it with Jaden Daniels in his second year at LSU after a couple years at Arizona State. It's why we see Bow Nix second year at Oregon after a couple years of Auburn. It's why we've seen it with with Cam Wren. from incarnate word to Washington State to Miami. It's that like third year, and that's why both of these guys are one of the two could wind up in that 2028 class.

That third year becomes so invaluable because now it's like, all right, the first year I was learning on the fly. Second year, I fixed all of my problems, but maybe I wasn't able, I wasn't mature enough yet, hadn't had enough wars under my belt, if you will, to, to anticipate what the counter moves in this chess match would be. Right. So when Mendoza comes back after his second, basically second year of playing, starting at Cal,

goes to Indiana, has a coach who's brilliant at helping him, both Signetti and Mike Shanahan, the offensive coordinator, they are doing the preparing, showing him the system. And the product we saw from Mendoza last year, especially late in the season,

and in big moments, was vastly different. than that of Cal, which was really good tape, but had floss. So I'm excited to see what year two is for both of these cats, man. But there may be a year three if year two doesn't go perfectly as planned, right? Yeah. One thing we've been doing in the series is, and I don't know, and I think I just a little bit covered it, and I think we've covered a little bit.

But when you watch Carr versus saying, Does one of them, do one of their games translate to the NFL for you a little bit better? No, I think they both do. I mean, that was my point in the beginning. I think they do it a little bit differently. But they both,

these are guys that, I mean, I think if you're an NFL play caller, you can work with both of these guys and you're excited about getting either one of them in your building. If you see something different, let me know. But these are guys that I think.

I wouldn't say, their games translate any differently because I think they're both really, really high-end, intelligent football understanding quarterbacks, like almost weirdly good for their age and lack of experience, right? I would say the traits of Carr translate a little bit better. I think he's better traits. There's no question. Yeah, he has better traits. So that opens up more possibilities less scheme driven, a little bit less. And I don't want to undersell saying. I really don't.

He's 6-1. He doesn't have the biggest arm. It's not like Carr with two more inches and a little bit more energy on the ball. Like, he can play in anything. Like, neither of them are Josh Allen. Neither of them are Lamar. Neither of them are Mahomes.

Neither of them are sellers, Sorsby. You know, in some ways, Arch, like, but these are two guys that are far more advanced than Arch Manning as passers, far more advanced as pastors than Sellers or Sorosby. In fact, I would say if you asked me to rank, like, as pure passers, and when I say pure passers, I mean the mental makeup in terms of processing, progressions, speed of which they're able to decipher information, and then the accuracy. see an advancement as passers.

I'd say the three in this class, at least so far of the quarterbacks we've gone through, or Dante, Carr, and saying. I would agree. I think the gap, I don't, I do not loop sellers in with Arch and Soresby. That being said, both of those things can be true.

I do think that the top three are the top three that you just mentioned in more car and saying. I think sellers is more developed. That's a hill. I'm ready to. die on, but that doesn't mean he's as, he's in the same category as the three you mentioned. I think both of those things can be true. So it leads us to our final point.

And I'm going through my desk that apparently someone's been messing with. Oh, yeah, I pay Tate to go down there and move things around. I'm going to find it. I've been jotting down our notes and our grades, right? And, well, you're doing this. Can I just tell you that I have a developing idea that I think we should do as a show? Just buy a second here. I think we should do after we do our NFL draft rankings for the quarterbacks.

We should do a college rankings for the quarterback and see if they're different. You know what I mean? I'm here for this year. Who's the quarterback you want this year? We can get to some of the guys who aren't draft eligible yet. I think that might be a fun exercise. So let's go through it. We've done so far.

This is our third part of our series. The first series was Dante versus Arch. You were a 94, I was a 93 on Dante, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Arch, we both were at 91, even though we kind of came in from different directions, we landed the plane to the same spot. Am I correct on that?

Yes, yeah. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I think it was, it's either 90 or 91. I don't have it in front of me. All right, so we'll call it 91. Yeah, I thought it was 91. Then we had sellers.

I gave sellers in 91, but would, honestly at this point rank him a spot ahead of arch. You gave him a 92 or 93? 93. Sellers. And then Sorsby, I don't think we actually said it on the show because I went back and lifted the notes. What grade would you give Sorsby throw out all the other stuff?

Sorsby as a football prospect, quarterback prospect. What grade would you give Sorsby? 89. I'm actually cool with that. I could argue 90 on potential, but the problem with betting on potential, oh, geez, the problem with anticipating potential

is he doesn't have the potential this year to to showcase and develop those skills on the football field, right? So I'm cool with an 89. So that would give our rank before we come into this. And I'm glad we're doing this on air. I actually think it's fun.

I think if you're following it home, it gives you a clear picture. We both have Dante is the number one quarterback prospect. Sellers right behind him. Arch then would be third and Sorsby would be fourth of the four we've graded so far. It's important to lay that out because now I want to ask you where we're building the board here.

Building the board together is one big happy summer family, right? Yeah. Let's start with this. higher grade, don't tell me the grade. Higher grade on car or saying? Higher grade on car. Okay, agreed. Would you slot car in ahead of arch?

I know you wouldn't have had a seller, so I'm not going to waste anyone's time. Would you, assuming on Mench's board, it's Dante, sellers, um who's next yeah is is car ahead of arch on the rank is he have a higher grade or similar or identical grade or is he ranked below it would be more sellers car for me so is my top three right now same i have car i've arch

fourth i can i mention my grade now real quickly on on car please uh i have him as the same grade as Arch but ranked ahead of him. And it's a tough one because he's a far better, he's a far more polished pastor at this point, but Arch's talent is just too much to ignore. So it's an interesting, it's an interesting battle there of,

you're getting now into that potential argument. I think Arch is going to have a better year. And if he does, then he'll move. It's this push and pull of where you put these guys. Oh, I can see Arch coming up. out and there's a world in which. Yeah. And I didn't get to see enough of them.

He didn't do all that much at the Manning Passing Academy for a lot of reasons I think I outlined. And some of it's speculative, but he's always working with Eli and not always. I don't want to oversell it. He has the opportunity to work with his uncles. And this is an opportunity for other guys to be able to do so. And there's a lot of things pulling at him. And NFL films are there.

So like to spotlight the Manning family in 30 years of the Manning Passing Academy and all that stuff. So there's a world in which he comes out this year and is more efficient as a passer, builds on what we saw the second half of last season. And I could see Arch pushing to be the number one overall pick. Of course. I can't after studying his tape versus some of these other quarterbacks tape as a passer say he's there yet. but I see a clear path for Arch car interestingly enough

but they were both first year starters cars more advanced but isn't as big isn't as mobile but just like the understanding of and like the precision as a passer is more advanced than the arch so I would put him just a tick

ahead of arch but those would be my top four I agree now to saying I really thought by the way I really thought you were going to piss me off and put car ahead of seller I thought you were going to do that.

Did you think about it? I thought about it, but he's not there yet. I got to be honest. And Sellers still has an... I view Sellers more as he's still developing consistency with the passing. I think Sellers' biggest thing is he's got to take heat off the fastball. He's got to show more touch short to intermediate on some of those throws. He misses high and misses hot too much.

But he does. And after our conversation, I'm not going to... I went back and I watched more, more seller sellers again through the same vein. And I think I emphasized the negative more than the positive. There are some precision throws, timing throws, anticipation throws that he makes on a line, tight windows, leading receivers to the sideline and everywhere else that are pretty damn special. Yeah. So as an NFL coordinator, I can, I can bottle that up and we can make that more of the norm.

So yeah, I thought about it, but I would be like, lying because car car is gifted and cars yeah wicked wicked smot you know but but sellers is more gifted sellers is is far more polished as a passer than um than swordsby and and more polished as a pastor clearly more polish as a pastor than arch so and and what car can't do is what sellers does arguably best is extend, run, threaten. He forces you to cover every inch of that football field. Yeah. The 53 wide and the 100 long.

Like he just forces you because that arm, the mobility, he just does. So I think it's a fair. Honestly, I like the rankings. I like Dante won because he's the best passer in this class. Yes. And I expect more consistency even out of him. I like sellers too. I'm pumped to see him in a new system this year.

I like car three. I'm pumped to see him with maybe some better weapons and all the emphasis on him. I like Arch 4 with the upside to climb as high as he wants to climb based on the improvements he's made in the offseason. Also understanding he did undergo foot foot surgery. And it hasn't been the easiest off season, but he looks ready and, and, and, And I have nothing but high hopes for him. And but also knowing he can be back for 2027 too. And there's a little bit of talk that he might be.

I'm just being honest with you. I don't like sharing it. Like there's, let's just file that away. More discussion about that than I anticipated considering there was a lot of discussion last year, the Manning Passing Academy about he is under a microscope and it is overwhelming. And like having to spend another year in Austin, Texas, as wonderful as the people are and all that, that wouldn't matter what city or town it is,

there's just so much spotlight on this one individual for obvious reasons. But now there's more like, I don't know, like, yeah, he's probably going to be in the 27 class, but have it like so far away from making that decision and so open to, depending on circumstances, being back in Austin for 2027. So that part's fascinating too. Yeah.

Far be it for me to tell you how to do your job, but you missed a real opportunity to rage bait me, get the blood pressure up and maybe get some good podcast material there by at least pretending that you were going to do it. I'm surprised you didn't try to... I thought about it. Try to, like, goad me a little bit and then be like, oh, yeah, I agree with you.

Yeah, you're right. So where do we have saying now? I'm not a great podcaster. I just... That's not what I was saying. No, I'm joking. What was... Where do you got saying?

Sayans tough. because Soresby has better traits, but Sane's more polished. I've got an 89 on Sane right now, so it's the same grade as we kind of thinking of Sorsby. I'll be honest, I gave him a 90 because I wanted to kind of make the, make it clear that I have him ahead of Sorsby,

it felt kind of dirty. You know what? I'm going to just be honest about it. I think 89's a better grade. I'm giving him an 89. Sorry, I'm so sorry, Tucker and Dan. I'm giving him in 89. and I'm right there, but I have him ahead of Sorsby.

And that's another great argument of potential versus what you know, like the ceiling here. I mean, the floor here. And I just, I think the floor is good enough for saying to take him ahead of Sorsby at this point. So I like this list so far, man. I really do. I like this list. No one is disappointing.

I haven't watched one person. That's a good point. What are we doing here? It's a good point. We're six quarterbacks in with Dante is the highest grade, sellers at two, CJ Carr at three, arch at four,

Sane at five, Sorsby at six. And we still have a bunch of dudes to go. We got Sam Levitt, who's transferring from Arizona State to Lane Kiffinland in LSU. We've got Trinidad Chambliss, who's a lot of varying opinions on him, man. Some people kind of like

day two, you know, he's a good player. Some are like, no, this is a first round guy. We've got we've got Nico Yamaliyava. We've got DeMond Williams who is, you want to talk about polarizing. Some of the grades and some of the talk about

DeMond Williams that I don't see yet and I know you don't see yet, but we're going to dive into him. We've got Mateer. I know I'm missing one of two. Darien Mensa. Dariya Menza, the transfer from Duke to Miami. I'm actually more excited about this group in a way because if this group is as good as I think that they can be, now this is why this quarterback class is truly historic because

already we've got six guys. But now when you get into this kind of, I don't want to say second tier, because I don't think that's accurate. But when you're getting into the depth of it now, if these guys keep showing up, this is what's going to make, potentially make this class different. Majava, Jaden Mayava. who's been working diligently. Do you say Mestemaker too?

Mestamaker? So we've got a bunch of names left and just four parts of the series left to do it. We'll figure out a way to squeeze it in. So that we have to look forward to. But I will say this. This is why we do it. Because everyone in the world,

it's like Arch, Archeonante, one, two. We'll see about sellers. A frustrating year. Well, CJ Carr and saying, I don't, but like the fact that we're now three parts in, and we've got Arch is the fourth quarterback prospect currently with all the upside in the world. And Sellers is the number two quarterback prospect just behind Dante. And C.J. Carr ahead of Arch. Like, that's why we do it.

And I hope people are enjoying. We are back on next Monday. Yeah, Monday. Next Monday. Enjoy the weekend. Hope you guys have a good time. Enjoy the weekend. And we had a schedule, but I'm starting to feel like we might have to do three quarterbacks per show or something.

We'll figure it out. But I listed all the names of the quarterbacks we're going to get to in some way, shape, or form. We're excited to share it, and then we'll wrap it all up in part seven and share the final board and go through some different things. And who knows? Maybe we'll tag on a bonus episode for mentions that you do the top 10 quarterbacks in college football. Till Monday, have a great weekend. Hey, happy fourth, man. America's 250.

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