The McShay Show - Coach Prime’s Cowboys Connection, Jayden Daniels Draft Lessons, and Ranking NFL GM Vacancies

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! Todd and Steve open by reacting to news that Deion Sanders has spoken to Jerry Jones about the Cowboys’ head coaching vacancy. Then, they break down the hiring of Mike Vrabel in New England and what lessons franchises can learn from Washington’s instant success in year one with Dan Quinn and Jayden Daniels. To finish the show, the guys rank open NFL general manager positions. (2:22) Jerry Jones and Coach Prime Talk about Cowboys Job (21:58) Patriots Hire Head Coach Mike Vrabel (28:22) What Teams Can learn from Jayden Daniels (36:38) Successful Roster Building: The Draft Blueprint (47:06) Which Open GM Job is the Most Attractive? (56:21) How Teams Value The Volume of Their Draft Picks (1:05:23) Join our YouTube Livestream During the CFP Final The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. It's a not-so-well-kept secret in television. The talking coach Prime and the Dallas Cowboys, their ratings grabs. And we promise not to be that show. But now we've got Coach Prime talking to Jerry Jones about the Cowboys coaching vacancy. So could we talk about it? Sure, why not?

Then is Jaden Daniels a unicorn or can we learn something from the commanders in that quick franchise turnaround with so many teams looking to turn things around this offseason today's our show provide a blueprint for the right way to build an NFL franchise thank God we have all the answers right we always do we're on to the college football playoff national championship and the NFL divisional playoff plus 99 days till the NFL draft 99 days to the draft meant you good I'm good man DJ spin us our favorite beats, baby. Here we are, right?

I mean, it's inevitable and it's beautiful. It is a beautiful thing that, of course, we have in the offseason, the NFL, Cowboys struggle all season long, got to keep them in the headlines. So what happens? Adam Schaefter, of all people, reports that Jerry Jones and Coach Prime had a discussion. Then Adam Schaefter texts Coach Prime and Coach Prime text him back. He says, yeah, we had a good conversation. Don't know where it's going to go.

but it's kind of open. Love it here in Boulder. I mean, all the things you hear. Love it here in Boulder, committed to what we're doing. But anytime Jerry picks up the phone and calls me, I'm going to listen. Don't know where it's going to go, right? Let me give you my quick thoughts on it. Okay?

And I want to discuss this back and forth. Gary Jones is 82 years old. When he was around 52 years old, he parted ways with the best coach that he ever hired, Jimmy Johnson. They won Super Bowls. They did a whole lot of winning. How about them cowboys, right? But it drove them crazy that Jerry wasn't the show, right?

This is a family business. Do you watch Landman at all? I have not watched it yet. You got to watch it. I love it. I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. I am, you know, Yellowstone, all that, same director. Best acting job.

I've seen any NFL person doing a long, long time. And you know why it was a great acting job? by Jerry Jones because he went on that show and he actually discussed his life. And in that acting bit he did with John Hamm and Billy Bob Thornton. It was talking about family and how the thing he's most proud of and the thing that basically he's going to go to his grave with a smile about is the fact that he got his family involved, his children and that his children were part of the Dallas Cowboys. And this is a family thing, right? That is his number one, you know, it's the most important aspect of what he's done. And I think when he fired Jimmy Johnson, that's when you started to see a shift.

The Jones family is the show. And so we're going to bring in head coaches are normally alpha dogs, right? They're the alphas. And they're alpha pluses. The great ones are Bill Belichick, Alpha Plus, Bill Parcells, Alpha Plus. You think about all of them. And coaching has changed. And yes, there's more communication. And you've got to be a player's coach to a certain degree with this day and age, but they're still alphas. And a lot of times they've become the show. Since then, Dallas has not done a whole lot of winning when it counts, but they've had a whole lot of coaches that are alpha minuses or beta pluses. I mean, if we're honest, right? Like, truly, I'm going to read you this list. I did not see this coming. And they're all good football people. They're all competent.

They're all good football coaches, but they're all nice guys. And they're all guys that play the game and are willing to be in that position. Right. I mean, there's a lot of money that comes with it, a lot of fame that comes with it, a lot of attention that comes with it. So, yeah, I'll put up with what goes on with Jerry Jones and the Jones family. Chan Galey, Dave Campo, we'll get to the next coaching hire in a second. Wade Phillips, Jason Garrett, Mike McCart.

all good coaches very good coaches some of them all of them are are able to play the game the only one that wasn't able to play the game is bill parcels since that's 30 years since he have he fired jimmy johnson 30 years it's not by accident that he's been hiring these guys steve so when i see and and the one person i left out was bill parcels and we all know how that ended it's the only alpha plus guy that he brought in. And it was a, it was a massive headache. And it, and the two couldn't coexist. They couldn't coexist. Just like Jimmy Johnson, despite all the winning, they couldn't coexist anymore because Jerry had to be the show. So coach prime, I mean, is, is there a bigger example in sports right now than coach prime as an alpha plus?

He's his own industry, man. Like commercials, he's involved in everything. He's in, forget branding. He's his own industry. How does that work? I'm asking you. How does that work? I mean, that's the biggest question because we'll get into this in a minute.

There's a lot on paper that's interesting about it. And I get having the conversation, but you're right, Deanne's not going to be, coach Deans not going to be a kind of guy is going to be comfortable staying out of the spotlight. And not necessarily in a bad way. That's just who he is. And if you're going to be successful at anything, you have to be who you are when you do it.

And he has to be that guy who's out front, who's the leader who is, you know, taking the blame, but also taking the credit when things go well. And that kind of class, those two egos is what makes this so fascinating to me. It's so volatile. It could go really well if this were to go down. The potential for it to absolutely explode is also there. And I think that's what makes it so interesting,

to people is they want to sit and watch and whether or not this is going to be a train wreck and they're kind of like looking out of the corner of the eye to see how bad it is or could this actually work? Because that part of it I get, listen, if you're looking for a head coach, I think you would at least make the call to coach Deon

and you see what his feelings are, what his thoughts are. And I know he's never coaching the pros and we don't know what we don't know and we'll see how he can make that transition and whether or not he could be successful doing it. But after Washington in Colorado, you see his history with the, obviously, the Dallas organization, I get making that call. I get his interest and I get Jerry Jones' interest. I think on paper, it makes sense for them to have a conversation.

It's what you're talking about that makes it so fascinating and whether or not they can get out of each other's way or manage the relationship in a way that will allow them both to be successful. The press conference would be a thing of beauty, right? Like, the first conference, the whole thing, man, from beginning to end, would be must watch TV. And that's what Jerry wants. So that's why I'm not ruling this out. As hard as it is to imagine. Like at the end of the day, it's about football operations. How does the football operation work?

We saw in New England, complete disaster, collaboration, no true boss. Robert Kraft is not that different. That situation in New England is not that different from the Jerry Jones falling out with Jimmy Johnson. But Jerry Jones just didn't put up with it as long. And the winning lasted longer with Bill Belichick. But you could, I mean, you don't even have to read that deep between the, you know, between the lines or in the tea leaves to realize that Robert Kraft, he wanted more say. He didn't want a dictator in the house. And so we wanted more collaboration.

But I think Robert Kraft is wise enough that after a year of that project or experiment, that he realized, like, this isn't going to work. I don't know that Jerry in this point of his career at 82 years old, having done it the same way for 30-something years and still made a boatload of money and has done it with his family and has done it, you know, as him being the front face of the organization, I don't know that he's ready to, and forget even Coach Prime, anyone that he brings in.

That's the fascinating part to me. like and why would coach prime want this job outside of just for the same reasons that jerry would like it would literally be the biggest show in sports it may only be that for a year or two years then i probably like that it is so clear to me that this would end in an explosion like it would not end well there's the reaction to the troy eggman comments about the job opening was interesting that was interesting right yeah Yeah, it's interesting for a couple of reasons. One of what really kind of fascinates me was the response was that, oh, Troy Aikman said that this might not be an attractive job for a coaching candidate.

And can you believe that? Yeah. Yeah, I can believe it. And I can believe it for some of the reasons you're discussing right now. I mean, it's a tough situation. When you go in and you have that hands-on owner and he's always got his thumb on the scale. And it's not really your program. It's his program.

It's not that attractive of a job. You know, you have a good but not great quarterback and Dak Prescott coming back. You have some issues in terms of free agency and cap space and all of these things. To me, what Aiken said was obvious. The only reason it's news is because he's an absolute legend, a Hall of Fame quarterback who won so many games for them. That's the only reason it's news. If anyone else said that, I think, you know, most people would think, you know, just nod their head along and say, yeah, that makes complete sense. It's not that attractive of a job.

I look at Kellyn Moore, excuse me, seems to be the name that, like, if you look at like odds on favorites, it's Kellyn Moore. And understandably, like when Mike McCarthy got the job, Kellyn Moore was, it was predetermined, the Kellyn Moore was going to be the OC. And that feels like a Jerry Jones hire, right? Right. In-house, my guy, appointed all along the way, going to do it my way, not. I know, Kellynne. as a quarterback and evaluated him and interviewed him and all that stuff.

I'm not saying he's not an alpha dog, but I'm saying in the coaching ranks, he's not been in the position to be the true alpha, right? So that's kind of, that that falls in line with what Jerry's done. So that one would make sense. The problem is there's no reasoning. It's like, you know, it's like reasoning with an X when you just, it's not going to work. Like your personalities don't jive or you know the character flaws. male or female like you get to a point with in certain relationships no matter what the relationship

is you got to either put set up boundaries um or or you just learn to to live with it i i just don't think i just wonder what's going to what's going to work if jerry's not going to change then it it's going to be a lot of the same right and the other thing too is not to cut off my own point the other thing too is is coach prime only coming if we're going up and getting getting my son right going to get shador sanders in the draft how is that going to work where does dallas pick Dallas i don't think Dallas is in the top what are they 11 12 i think they are 12 right yeah 12 they're 12 12 12 so while most people in the league rank these quarterbacks in that range like mid first at best i still think they're going to go higher than I don't think they're going to sit there.

Now is, how would that even work? Like, his coach prime is to say, well, my son's not going to go play anywhere else, so he's got to come here. Right. So you just got to let him wait till 12. We're not giving anything up to go get him. No, I mean, we've talked about this a lot.

No team is going to let that happen. Someone in the top 11 picks will say, okay, we're taking Shador and then you've got to come get him. Or you're, yeah, or just trade up now so we don't have to deal with all this nonsense. And by the way, you, you've got a quarterback and, Dak Prescott that you just paid, paid, paid, which that's a whole other thing talking about that contract. Yeah, still still, still a little intriguing. The idea of it, you know, the, Oh, it's fascinating. Yeah. And I'm not sure, again, we don't, I'll say this over and over again.

We don't know what we don't know. We don't know, you know, I, Dion, I think has been great for Colorado. will he be able to have that kind of success at the NFL level? I don't know. Will he be able to handle the big personalities, the CD lambs, the Micah Parsons? Yeah, let me ask you that question. When we first started talking about this and when the information came kind of across the board, one of my first thoughts was, and I promise you, I'm asking this question because I don't have the answer and I don't know that anyone truly has the answer, but I'm just curious your

opinion. As a college coach and the way that coach prime goes about his business, Like those young men, 18, 22 years old, look up to him, view him as like the guy, a lot of like father figure, those sorts of, you know what I mean? Is that going to work, period, in the NFL locker room? Because I think part of his value, I think part of Coach Prime's value at the college level is he truly can reach these young men. and he truly can help develop them as as men, as productive members of society, help them in critical years of development.

Okay, I truly do believe that. And people may not agree with his philosophies on it and what he thinks is right and wrong and the showmanship and all that stuff. I understand that. But you can't argue that he doesn't reach them. Right. Coach, part of his secret sauce is he truly reaches them

and he truly cares, okay? Will that then translate to the end? He's not coming in as like, is the X's and O's guy, this brilliant offensive scheme or a brilliant defense. He's coming in as a guy who can reach his players and inspire them and get them to play as one and run the operation. Will that work as you're trying to go? Like, as a free agent, do I want to go to Dallas?

and I don't want to say deal, but, but in that be the dynamic. Am I looking for that dynamic? Or am I 28, 29, 30 years old? I'm looking to go to go win, obviously, to go get paid, obviously. But if the winning opportunities and the money opportunities are all the same, am I choosing that environment with Coach Prime? Or is it just a little too much or a lot for me? I'm not naive about it.

I mean, Nick Saban's the goat and ask him about trying to make the transition to the NFL and how that went for him. It obviously didn't work well. What I will say is that if you're one of those players, man, I don't know how you're not wanting to play for Dion because the difference there is that Dion was so successful at the NFL level. And he could pull a guy aside, like a Micah Parsons to be like, look, man, I know your contract's up. This is what I went through when I went to San Francisco. This is what I had to deal with when I was the Cowboys. He had that kind of success at the NFL level. We're talking about Hall of Fame corner,

maybe the best of all time, right? He's in that conversation. That is a unique background. And that is something where I think that, you know, you can have guys who are great college players and they can be great college coaches, to be that kind of a player at that pro level and to have that kind of experience

and to be able to share that with these players and say, and to pull them into your office and be like, yeah, no, no, don't explain this to me. I've been there, man. I know where you are right now. I've been through struggles. I've played really at a high level. I've been in an all-pro.

I know I've done contracts. I know how all of this works. And you can either sit here and listen to me and we can have a conversation about it or you can tell me that you know better. And those are the kind of players, really you're going to want to weed out of your program anyways. So to me, again, I don't know.

But there's reason to be optimistic about him being different than other coaches who have tried to make this jump. Mike Vrable is one of the, first guys that pops in my head when you say like a head coach that that that has that that cachet that has that you know and Dion was a more prolific dynamic you know player during his days but Brabz did an awful lot of winning and was a hell of a football player in the ring of honor in New England and all that stuff the difference is I don't view Vrable is trying to there's different cultures that's how I would put it right I think

I think it's a different, I think it's more of a business coaching, demanding with Vrable. I don't know. I just, you know, the more you talk about it, I'm not sure they're that different, other than Dion was a much more prolific player in the league. I think that Dion could be that same kind of pro coach where he's very demanding of his players and sets high expectations. I think he's done that at Colorado. Oh, there's no question.

Does you see the, did you see the Taylor-Luan clip about, about Vrebel going to England? and when he's like, he's going to tell you that he played in the league for this many years, he's going to tell you about every five minutes. And I just thought it was hilarious. I could see Rable being like, you know how many games I played? You know,

when I was with Belichick and Brady and blah, blah, blah, I just thought it was great that he's, you know, kind of poking fun of Rable, while still giving him a little bit of an endorsement. But listen, I think that Deion could run that kind of a tight ship. I don't think he's going to be,

when I'm talking about him with those conversations with these players, and the way he could connect with a 28, year old NFL player. I don't mean that as I think he's going to be a player's coach. I actually don't. I think it just gives him a unique perspective to bring into that conversation and say, look, you're not going to explain anything to me

that I don't already know and can say to them, like, you don't have to take that number and I get it and you want more and if you can go get it, go get it. But, you know, these are the realities of this situation. Now, I do think it gets very complicated. Very complicated if you bring your son into play quarterback.

Because then, then, then it's a whole different thing. Now, I'm talking about if Shador Sanders doesn't, you know, if they don't make a big move to get him, and Shador Sanders doesn't end up with that star on his helmet, it's a very different situation as a veteran when you're coming in and you're saying, oh, your son's the quarterback, are you going to be willing to make the change if you need to be,

to make the change? And that's a whole other conversation. Yeah, and it's not like DAC is a disliked in Dallas. Right. I mean, you know, like, yeah, it would be an all or nothing. It would, I mean, talk about taking a big hack for the fences. I hope it happens. Well, everyone in everyone in our position, everyone in media, everyone who doesn't, you know, isn't a, it's easy to because it, you know, it's, it's the ratings grab. Like I said, off the top. It's, it's it's the story. It's it would make sense be in that. It absolutely falls in line with we've got to have the most attention on the star. Here we are.

From a football operation standpoint, knowing Jerry is who Jerry is and that is not changed in over three decades. I don't see how it works. I agree with you. From a business standpoint, from marketing, PR, yeah, it falls right in line with what they are. that version of hard knocks would be the greatest reality show of all time oh my god i'm just going to go ahead and say it i mean the ratings would be absurd all right i meant i mentioned brable and in new england another team this off season they jumped on it quickly they got their guy i don't think anyone can completely disagree i think most people are are we're screaming for this teddy bruskey friend of ours

and and um and and obviously a friend a good friend of rables and a and a patriot's legend um was screaming for it and and got it. And I think everyone in New England is, is kind of in line with this is, this is the right decision. And it's the right decision because of what I just mentioned before. I think Robert Kraft needed a year to kind of cleanse himself and, and test the waters and kind of run things the way that Jerry's wanted to run them for a while. And it's not dissimilar. Families, families in charge, we're the owners. We want more say. We think we can. And but I give Robert craft a ton of credit because this higher signals maybe maybe I'm better off in a role where I'm supporting everything I'm owning I'm giving the resources to the people that I'm bringing in

to run the operation no different than being an owner of a company and hiring the right CFO and CMO and all you're like and Vrabbles made it clear I'll give him credit just in hearing him talk it's been very clear that Ryan Cowden who worked with him and the Titans for a handful of years and spent the last year with the Giants, that he wants Ryan to come in and be part of the personnel decision making. But he hasn't gone in. He had good conversations. He said with Elliot Wolf.

He hasn't gone in and said, you know, I'm clearing house. You know, he hasn't done that. And there's value in Elliott Wolf. Like everyone you talk to in personnel, you know, circles, like he can evaluate talent. He's a, you know, college scouting background. So, so instead of like, the beauty is that that Elliott Wolf was never promoted to general manager. He had this different title.

And so I think Vrable comes in, brings in, is going to bring in his guy and Ryan Cowden, it sounds like. And Elliot Wolf, at least the initial thoughts are will wind up being part of the the personnel group. But at the end of the day, don't make any mistake about it. Vrable is aligning this. And I think part of the reason why it was no longer going to work in Tennessee, Vrable's aligning this where he is the ultimate decision maker.

Of course. I don't think he takes that job otherwise. Of course not. And so in hiring Vrable, it's very clear. It doesn't signal. It's very clear that the Kraft family has said, all right, we need someone to handle all this. And Vrable can handle all this. So it's a releasing the power.

Right. I agree. I will say this. I disagree with the Elliott Wolf situation. And I mean no disrespect to him. I think he's a respected talent evaluator. You know, he's an asset to a team. Too many chefs in the kitchen, man.

You're bringing your own guy in. I think it's time to part ways and have a clean start. Let Elliot Wolf go elsewhere. He'll be fine. And he may. He may. I just don't, how does that work? I don't disagree.

We've been parts of different companies, buying out of different companies and all that. inevitably what happens is the the new core that comes in it may not be immediate but eventually there's an inability to jive right and then there's a lot of like arranged marriage you hear range yeah and and the thing that i've gone through the experiences i've had from starting the war room with gary horton and you you were you know part of the the very first stages of it and have been with me ever since and going from that to like sporting news and sporting news to ESPN and ESPN bought out by Disney like ultimately at the end of the day what happens every time is that and people like

water cooler talk it's not like it's texting it's cell phones it's meeting for for dinner or drink and and the conversation start as whispers and then they get louder and then people from the the new group that came in here that their conversations going on, they get offended, and it just winds up splintering, right? And what happens when you sit down in a suite in Indianapolis and you're watching players and Elliott Wolf says, man, I really like this defensive end or this edge for Penn State and Caldons like, that's not really the kind of player that we look for in the system. Like how does, how do those conversations go?

They don't end well. They generally not. I mean, it can work and it could work in New England. And I'm not saying, you know, we know everything about everything. But that's that's a tough, that's a tough spot to be in. I just, I, to me, it makes more sense that New England is clearly making a clean start here. Then Brable is a strong of personality. He's as strong of personality as you'll ever be around.

And he gives zero fucks. Zero. Zero. Zero. Like I promise you, I've been. He never as a player either. He didn't. I remember going out and hanging out with urban and hanging out of practice at Ohio State.

And like, there was one, there was one general there, but he had a top lieutenant and everyone else, like, ultimately it was Urban's deal. But it was very clear that who the second in charge was. And he was just as powerful in terms of everyone below. Like, he is a strong personality. And so if, if that strong personality is bringing in his guy, they're going to allow. and you better either take all that ego bottle and throw it out or just go find another place to operate. Yeah.

I don't disagree with that. Should we get into, you know, just kind of in this conversation about leadership groups? And, you know, we're sitting around talking and we're talking about Jay Daniels, you know, who we've talked about a fair amount of the course of the pod. And what has made him so successful in Washington? And it's some of the things that we're, you know, discussing about what Dallas is maybe lacking what New England is looking to get right now. And that's, it's really to me is the leadership group. Yes.

And we saw in, we saw in Washington new ownership, new head coach, strong leadership, leadership that, that is effective that actually like is, is, is kind and caring and takes care of people inside the organization, all things that did not exist. with Daniel Snyder. All things. Like beyond not exists. Like it was, I mean, I had a very good, I have a very good friend,

Todd Klein, who put together the whole deal for the Hard Rock Cafe. I grew up with Todd. One of, you know, a small group of friends from a small town.

You know, Todd. And he worked with the, with the Redskins for just a little bit. And so I got to know some of the stories. And I can't even share them. Just couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Saying that Dan Snyder mismanaged the football operations might be the nicest thing you can say about the man. Right. And that's saying a lot. And it matters. Listen, it matters when you create anyone who's ever had a job. If you've ever had a job where it's a toxic, quote unquote, toxic, I don't really love all these terms with the toxic workplace where you're not comfortable working somewhere,

where you're not comfortable going in day to day. The waterfall effect of that is catastrophic. It's catastrophic when people aren't comfortable where they are, where they're not happy where they are. And when you're able to create an environment, like it seems that Josh Harris, the new owner of the commanders, has been able to create there, things can start to turn around quickly. And I think that's what you've seen with that franchise. Yeah. I mean, Daniel Snyder was a horrible human being, period. So that's easy. And what he did is, is he, you know, you just said waterfall. It made me, like, I had a mental image. Like, this new ownership group has come in and they've, like,

they looked at a garden that hadn't been watered in decades and simply put some water on it and all of a sudden started to see things come alive and grow. Did you see what, do you see what Harris said after the game after the win? He said twice. I think he said, just said talent, culture, people. Talent, culture, people.

It's that simple, man. It really is that simple. And then when you take that approach, you're getting talented players in there. You're creating a culture where they can grow, where they can develop. And you're putting also your, front office people, your training staff, your coaches, everyone in an environment where they feel

like they are in a position to grow and get better at their job, it's incredible what can happen. I mean, look, obviously getting Jaden Daniels, you want to give Jaden Daniels all the credit in the world, but there's enough praise for a team that goes from seven and nine and hadn't had a winning record since 2016 to go to 12 and 5 and win a wildcard game. I think there's enough praise to go around to Dan Quinn, the head coach, and to Adam Peters, the GM, and to the ownership group and to Cliff Kingsbury, the offense, when you start looking at why to Jane, it's not their roster. Their roster's pretty good.

They got some players. They still have a lot to do. I think that's kind of what's scary about them going forward is they have, they're in a position with Cap Space to really build that thing out next year, and they could be an even better team. It's not their roster. I think it's the people that they've brought in and the environment they've created. I was fascinated.

So just, you know, full transparent. I had a personal thing to deal with yesterday, all good. But you guys had a conference call and discuss some different topics and kind of threw some things at me. And I do this all the time. Like I've got to control myself sometimes, but I wound up going in this rabbit hole, right? Because I'm looking at it. And we've got this clear picture.

We could throw up the top 10 picks, the draft order, right? We've got this picture. Now we know who's drafting at the top, starting with Tennessee and then Cleveland, the Giants at three, Patriots 4, Jaguar, Raiders, five and six, respectively, then Jets, Panthers, Saints, and Bears, okay? And we did the QB or not QB basically next to it. And as you can see, six of the top 10 need quarterbacks. Okay, Mitch?

Right. I got in this rabbit hole of why do we overly complicate this thing, okay? You either identify a quarterback that you truly believe in. In some years, there just aren't in the draft. years there just aren't quarterbacks, you truly believe it. That doesn't, like, I can think Cam Ward is the savior is going, is going to, you know, transform an organization. It has, has tools that, that will do it and we believe in. And you can believe otherwise. And I promise you, in talking to people throughout the league, it's, it's that, like, there's a line in the sand.

There are some that believe that Cam Ward can be that guy. There are some that believe that Shador Sanders can be that guy. But to be quite honest, more often than not in the conversations I'm having, there's lack of certainty. Or it's, yeah, I just, I'm glad we're not in a position this year to have to draft one of those guys. It's not the year. Last year was the year.

Six guys drafted in the top 12. All of them shown promise except J.J. McCarthy, but even J.J. before his injury was tracking to be the starter of the Minnesota Vikings. And we know he's in a great situation with one of the best quarterback coaching head coaches out there and Kevin O'Connell. So when I look at this situation, I started down this rabbit hole. I started to say, okay.

And it started with you, Mesh. It started with what you said. I think it was last week or two weeks ago. Tennessee, we saw Rancarathon was fired. And you asked me if I was GM, what would he do? And I said, you know, first of all, um, try to try to trade the pick and I went down the list of things. And you were like, and I ultimately said, but I, you know,

at the end of the day, you've got to find your quarterback, so maybe you just take a hack at one of these guys, if you believe in them. And you were like, I don't know, man. Like, I'm going defensive line. I'm getting to pass rush. And when we were done with the show, I was like, yeah, like, yeah, Mensh is right.

Metsch is right. You know, seriously, like that, if I really truly was in the GM position, I've done this study over and over again. You know. over and over again. I know what works. I didn't work for Oz Newsom, but great friends with Joe Douglas and have like been the process that has worked for them for them has been shared. I have friends throughout the league and a lot of these different places. We've been fortunate enough to kind of know to learn like what works, why it works, what's behind it. Like sitting in the Indianapolis

at the Conrad Hotel and guys from the league coming in and out. And it's not like, oh, Did you see that 40-yard dash on the player? Did you see this? No, it's, let me tell you a story about this player. Right. Let me tell you about how much he loves this game. It's talking to Jason Garrett in Indy one day, and just sitting down having a good conversation with him about trust.

Do we have players that have trust and hunger, trust and hunger? And it's a tough thing to find. And then talking about the importance and how you build a roster and build it with, you've got to obviously have the quarterback. But when you finally get the quarterback, no matter how you get it, you better have everything else in place. You better be able to protect and you better have a vicious, ferocious defense, truly. Right.

And the rest you can hand pluck. The rest in the second, third, fourth round, you can find a wide receiver. The Steelers have done it for decades. The Packers have done it for decades. And when you see some of the great teams when they mess up, like the Ravens, where have they messed up in the draft? over and over and over again. Wide receiver.

Oh, wide receiver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When the Patriots, they hit on say, so I'm giving them some credit. Yeah, but for like over a decade, it was, right. It was missing running backs for a lot of these places. The Patriots miss on wide receivers, miss on running backs, right? So I did this deep dive, and this is the worst television radio podcast thing you could ever do. All right.

But bear with me. I haven't been able to do this shit. my entire career. So I'm going to wear you out for a few minutes. But I want, I just want to, I just want people to understand when we talk about the importance of building a roster and not just swinging for a quarterback just because it's the only quarterback there, here's what's going on when teams are in their meetings and they're looking at the big picture. And we're not here for one year. We're not here to just win next year. We're here to try to build an organization. And if you're drafting in the top 10, most of these cases, they're trying to rebuild an organization that has fallen off

the rails, okay? Philadelphia Eagles, I think we can all agree. For a long time, they've been successful. You don't have to agree with some of their people in their personnel department. You don't have to agree with some of their moves, all that. But what's the foundation? Howie Roseman's been there since 2010 to present. Call on the shots.

2010, five defensive players drafted, okay? Two pass rushers, starting with Brandon Graham that year. 2011, offensive guard, solidify our trenches, then three, defensive players. 2012, four or five defensive players, including Fletcher Cox. Also, Nick Foles was that one offensive pick. Okay? 2013, five defensive players, just three offensive players.

And one of the offensive players was Lane Johnson with the first pick, again, in the trenches. Okay. Zach Ertz was the other offensive player early in that draft. Identifying players. Yes. Okay, 2014, five of seven defensive players. 2015, five of six defensive players. From about 2014 on, they were an elite defensive team.

with a solid offensive line. Then they bring in in 2016, Carson Wentz. They also draft a guard or running back in an offensive tackle. Okay, because it's time. We've got an elite defense for the last couple of years. We've identified our quarterback. It doesn't matter how it all turned out in the end. We've identified our quarterback.

Let's get him another offensive lineman, running back, offensive tackle. Then they drafted, but in that same year, the next four picks, defensive players. 2017 first three players defensive players 2018 got her great pick then got two defensive players and two offensive tackles so you're following me here right right the other thing the other thing the eagles did throughout all of this every year two years they were drafted a quarterback right okay didn't always work out but you go back to to walsh and and the the whole like the history of

the NFL and it's you know like the personnel people Smart personnel people follow this mall. I don't care if it's fifth rounder, six rounder. Every couple of years, let's bring in another quarterback. Let's try to develop them. And then if the worst case, we got a really, we got a solid backup that we want. Best case, he becomes a starter. Somewhere in between, we get some value trading them, right?

So the way rookie contracts are now, especially with the way rookie contracts are. Yeah. It's a no-brainer. It's stealing money. Nick Foles in 2012, Matt Barkley, 2013, Carson-Wenstein, 2016, Thorson, and in 2019, Jalen Hertz, second round pick in 2020. Then even in 2022, they draft McKee. He had to come in and play.

You just don't know. That's, that's Philly. How about Kansas City with Brett Feach? They get their quarterback. First year that Brett Feach, I told you, when he was a personnel guy, who was banging down the door, bugging the shit out of, out of Andy Reed. The Mahomes is the guy. Two years before he was even eligible.

They got Mahomes in 2017, Veech was promoted to GM. Also got Kareem Hunt. after that you ready yeah all this trend it's i mean it's so obvious 2018 all all six picks defensive side of the ball 2019 wide receiver mccole harmon then three defensive players in a row 2020 edwards allaire not a great pick at running back i talked about it wide receiver running back be careful first round unless they're like unless we're talking top like the elite guys i loved edwards halear coming out lSU and it just it just hadn't paid out yeah but then after edwards Lair for the next five players, defensive players, 2021, two of the first three picks,

defensive players, including Nick Bolton. 2022, now we have an elite defense. Yeah. Still five of their first six picks on the defensive side. 2023, still an elite defense. Five of their first seven picks, right? So when you have the quarterback and you have a great defense with it, the quarterback makes up for so many sins on the other side.

we we lucked into not we didn't luck into we took a real chance on a major character major character guy and tyree kill paid off right kareem hunt came in but you can pluck guys you free agents draft later you can find guys that are offensive weapons make sure you're protecting your quarterback but you better have a damn good defense baltimore same thing ozie newsome i mean go all the way back to the ray lewis and and some of their their picks but start but you go back to oh nine like offensive tackle michael or then three defensive players 2010 first two defensive players 2013 first four players drafted defense 2014 four or five defense 2015 they went more offense and they had some busts but then they hit on carl davis and

darius smith offensive tackle in 2016 then three defensive players 2017 first five picks defensive player like the ravens the chiefs the eagles i could do the same thing i could do go down the road for buffalo right the bills a long list of guys josh allen came in 2018 after josh allen they had four defensive players the two years before that it was three defensive players loss in raglan 2017 the year before josh allen cornerback and then offensive line with a receiver in there then after Allen, it was defensive tackle for first pick in 19. Then in 2020, first pick was an edge. 2021. First two picks are edges, Rousseau and Basham. And then after that, two offensive tackles. It's the same trend. So you look at the playoffs now, right? And even the Rams, you watched that game

last night, even the Rams, the better, the better offensive. I texted Les Sneed their GM five, six days ago. Out of the blue, I'm just, I'm looking, I'm watching, I'm watching the, the Rams play. I think it was in the final week. I forget. I don't know why. It just hit me. I'm like, I haven't reached out to less than a while, but my goodness, like, remember, this is the same guy who was wearing like, fuck draft picks, that t-shirt, you know, when they went out and got all the free agents. I hate that, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a pushback. It's not, it's not his, like, principle in how he was raised in all of this, but everyone was saying, They won't draft for four years.

And he's like, yeah, I get it. But different circumstances need to be a different opportunity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. But he's, but, but in order to replenish that roster and in order to stay near the top, they had to then once that all the free agent stuff and all the cap issues and all the, how do we, how do we stay competitive? We better start drafting guys. Let's get Pooka and Kua.

Let's identify him. Let's go to Florida State and get two players that for some reason are vastly underrated, Jared Verst and Fisk, right? And look at where they are now, you know? And I'm not saying it's an elite team. This year old win in Philly, but I'm watching nine sacks last night in a vicious defense matched up with what? A good quarterback that has a good quarterback that has.

enough weapon. You know what I mean? Like this like to me like that's the draft blueprint. Right. That right there is the draft blueprint. Draft a quarterback. Find your guy. If it takes five different hacks at it in seven, eight years, find your guy. But when you do it, already have everything in place. Loading up on defensive front guys,

loading up on cornerbacks and versatile defensive backs, right? And, and making sure your offensive lines. is good enough to protect that asset. The rest, we can find a run a back. Yeah. Wide receiver's value's gone up so much and I get it and it should be. But get one of the elite ones or wait till the second, second round, wait to the third.

Like there are other guys to get. Identify those guys. You talked about the Ravens a little bit really quickly, a guy that they're not there yet, but someone I'm really excited to watch going forward is the general manager for the Chargers and I know that they just had a tough loss. but Joe Hortiz is, it might be the least surprising story

that he's already killing it because everyone knew once he got his shot. He was so ready. He's so talented. He's so good at what he does. And then for him, there's two picks.

First two picks, he takes Joe Alt and Ladd McConkey. That's a pretty good start. And then he got the corner out of Maryland Tarheep Still in the fifth round. Yeah. He looks like he's going to be a dude. Yeah.

I'm excited. I mean, they went from five and 12, last in the AFC West. And again, I know it was a tough end, but they were 11 and 6 this year. I'm excited to see what Hortez, with that background,

he knows what he's doing with that background, what they do is spinning it forward. But you know, Joe, yeah. Go ahead. Were you going to say something? I was going to say, Joe Ortiz is another example of paying your dues,

doing it the right way for a long time. Joe Douglas did the same thing, had the same experience, right? Joe Ortiz was there. And also wait for the right opportunity. Wait, you know, find the right opportunity, Harbaugh, commitment from, the organization, a quarterback.

Like that, yeah, Vrabel's coming back to New England, Ring of Honor, Super Bowl rings, all that shit. Like, all of that is fun. Right. Vrabel's in New England

because of Drake met. Right. Period. Okay. I believe that. And it's why it was such an attractive job. If Drake May just kind of sputtered this year and didn't show all the promise,

I don't know that they're landing Vrabel or an elite, an elite coach, because now you've got an owner that appears to be after one year, kind of like meddlesome and what, like, I just don't know that that's the destination I want. You're not going to land a Ben Johnson, one of these, like the top guys. Vrable and Ben Johnson are the top two names. New England landed one. And you can't tell me it didn't have a ton to do with Drake May.

Absolutely not. So as that conversation is a backdrop. I love doing this to you. The Jets are calling, the Titans are calling, and the Raiders are calling. They all want to offer you the job. What's the best situation to go into as a GM right now? Which one of those spots would be the best for you? All right.

Only two of the matter here, because the Jets are third by the greatest distance you can ever imagine. Yeah. I mean, you've made your thoughts clear about it. And if anyone hasn't heard it, it's the ownership. The ownership is an issue. you, it's been a mess for a long time. Then you also look at the Aaron Rogers situation. They have aging free agents at tackle.

You've got three young players. You're going to have to pay soon. It's a mess. And it all starts with Woody Johnson, the owner. And you're obviously not a fan. Yeah, Woody Johnson could offer me three, four million dollars to be the GM tomorrow and I would turn it down. Okay. If you're listening, Mr. Johnson, I'd probably, I'd probably take that deal.

Yeah. And I'd be your assistant GM. So, all right, fascinating question. I love it. So it comes down to Raiders and Titans. Can I tell you I would go with? No, you asked me the question. I'm going to answer it.

I would actually go with the Raiders, even though I think there's a little more dysfunction. But here's why I would do it, because I would align myself with Tom Brady. I would align myself with Tom. And as long as Tom and I were on the same wavelength and how to proceed with this organization, I think Mark Davis would then be in line with it.

And that I could create the culture. I could call the shots. Tom would inevitably have a say in it, but I would utilize Tom as an asset rather than view it as he's making more decisions than he should. If I could align myself with Tom, I think that that would be the more intriguing spot. Tennessee is difficult because they've just,

they've, they've gone through, you know, it was John Robinson, now ran Carthon, new head coach. I just, I worry about that.

And neither place has a quarterback. So that's, that's the first obstacle, you know, Tennessee's drafting. Yeah. And if I'm Tennessee, if I'm Tennessee and I can't trade out of that pick,

I'm, I'm following the blueprint. I'm following the blueprint. the blueprint. Look at Detroit. Another example. Penae Sewell in 2021, offensive tackle.

Then Levi-onzeriki. First three picks, O T-T-D-T-D-T. 2022, Hutch. Right? And then Jameson. Detroit's fascinating. I know I'm going,

I'll come back in a second. Detroit's fascinating because it's all about offensive line, defensive line, DB, versatile DBs, dudes and, you know, to run that Aaron-Glen defense. but Detroit's blueprint was this.

And I do, I don't have knowledge of the picks or anything like that. But Chris Spielman, I worked with him for years. He is a very close personal friend. And the things that he's preached to me and the things that are within that organization with Brad Holmes as the clear leader. And I, like, I can't praise Brad Holmes enough for the job he's done in Detroit as a general manager since taking over that job in 2021. one. But organizationally, and I'm not, this isn't what they've said these words, but essentially

organizationally and from the draft standpoint, we're going to be the baddest mofos on the block, but we're also going to have the fastest getaway cars. Yeah. It's actually, that's a, we're going to beat you up in the trenches. We're going to be bigger and stronger up front. We're going to have, we're going to have defensive linemen that are nasty. We're going to get after you. We're going to have dbs that can play that are multiple that will come up and hit you. We're going to have all that stuff. Grit, right? Dan Campbell for all falls in line.

There's a culture. I hate the word code. There's a personality to that team. And I get news for you, too. Find players that fit the profile. The profile for Detroit. You talk about blueprints. I've talked to Bill Pollian about this for years.

They brought in a psychologist before it was even a thing to find the profile of individuals that love the game, not what it brings. brings to them, but actually love the freaking game and fit the profile. You talk about fit in a profile in Detroit. Amonra St. Brown, fourth round pick. Hardest working dude out there, right? Malcolm Rodriguez, absolute leader, tough guy, going to give you every last ounce in that body, six round pick. James Houston from Jackson State, six round pick. Josh Pascal, I don't know that we've ever evaluated a player bench sitting in hotel rooms in Mobile and in, in, in, in, in, Indianapolis, talking to GMs and scouts, like the stories we heard about his leadership and what

he had to overcome, you know, like these are the profile of players, some of the highest FBI guys, football intelligence guys out there. I mean, literally some of the best football intelligence players I've ever studied, right? Hutch at defensive end, Penaise Sewell at Offensive Tackle, Campbell at linebacker, branch as your star, Arnold, Terry and Arnold. Ask Nick Sabin what he thinks. Ask Miss Terry what she thinks about Terry and Arnold as a person. You know what I mean? Yeah. Kirby Joseph, safety, just guys that are smart football players that love the game.

So that's the profile. We're going to be smart. We're going to be tough. We're going to have the grit. But we also are going to sprinkle in the fastest getaway cars in the world because we got Jameson Williams, right? Yeah. We got Jamir Gibbs.

And we got Sam Laporta. So when it seemed like, boy, that doesn't, why are they drafted running back in a, a linebacker and a tight end. They've got four picks in the first two rounds. What are they doing? They knew exactly what they were doing. Yeah, but that takes time, right? And it takes, you know, something we haven't really talked about.

There's still a little magic in this game, man. You can have all the ingredients, and sometimes it just doesn't come together. There's still a little magic and things have to work out in your way. And I think that it's training that way for Detroit. They've had a great year, and that takes time. And when you're talking about taking a Raiders job where they've had 5G, this will be their fifth GM and their fifth coach, head coach. since they moved to Vegas in 2020.

So are you comfortable with the fact that Davis is going to take the time? I think Tom Brady changes the whole thing. I do too. I do too. I'm not going to, you know what? I'm trying to play devil's advocate, but I'm with you.

I'm taking the Raiders too. And I don't like, I was like to say before. I don't like arranged marriages. You know, Brian Callahan's could be a great coach in this league. But he's still there. So now you're coming as a GM.

I don't know. They're doing something. They're firing head coach, keeping a GM, firing the GM. I'm keeping the coach. I don't understand what the plan is. Yeah, it's a terrible two-step that they're running.

I don't get it, man. And if it was last year and I had the first overall pick, man, we just won the lottery, baby, but it's not last year. And that's how draft cycles work. You're in a much different spot. So you're hoping someone falls in love with Cam Ward, and you can maybe trade back and get a lot of assets. I think that would probably be the best move.

They're not a quarterback away, man. They are not a quarterback away from being a great team. They have other holes they need to fix. So ideally they can trade back. And if this was last year, they've been a better position to do it. So people are like, oh, you don't want to be the GM of the team of the first overall pick? Not right now. I feel better about the Raiders situation.

I just feel better about what that looks like long term. And again, I get the past. Mark Davis, I mean, he goes through. I mean, Tom Telesco, the GM, who was just fired for the Raiders, drafted Brock Bowers and two starting offensive linemen last year. And he's out. Tough business, man. But I think he's out for a good reason.

reason has nothing to do necessarily with the job that he did. No. It's because we don't want to prearranged marriage. We don't want an arranged marriage. We don't want to force someone. We want someone who's going to come in and we're going to start this organization over. And Tom Brady this past year was finally given permission or whatever it is from the NFL and was allowed to, he now is a functioning member of that ownership group.

And you're kidding yourself if he doesn't have the loudest voice, if you think he doesn't have the loudest voice when it comes to making football decisions. Because Mark Davis, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so that organization, I feel like, has an opportunity to bring in people in leadership roles that will have the right direction. Okay.

So that's why I would choose Raiders first, then Titans, and then I would turn down the Jets. I love that. It's a non, it's a non-starter for you. you not even the challenge going in and maybe turning that franchise around a storied franchise that you know a big market you think you could maybe turn around for him now the other thing the other thing stevie boy that that is very clear and going through all this you'd be amazed how many teams wind up with four picks in a draft two picks in a draft seven picks in the five picks in a draft right and do it

like two out of three years or do it three years in a row. The Baltimore Ravens, I mean, it was always Ozzy's thing. And Eric DeCosta now has taken all that information and has put his, his touch on things absolutely and have a lot of respect. We're talking about someone who's growing up the right way and learned the right way and all those sorts of things. They've averaged nine picks. They've had 104 picks since 2013.

They average nine picks a draft. I just talked about Buffalo. I just looked. I didn't look up all of these teams, but I promise you, all of them, it's the same thing. Buffalo, average eight picks per year. Yeah. And you say, well, we have compensatory picks and you start off with seven picks. You'd be amazed how many teams average fewer than seven picks.

Okay. Detroit, they loaded up on those four picks in the first two rounds. Look at that may go down as one of the greatest all-time drafts, you know, truly. Jamir Gibbs, Campbell, Leporto. branch like phenomenal in 2022 hutch jameson talk about two years to rebuild an organization how did they do it they didn't go out and grab they didn't draft a quarterback number one overall they did it they did it with those draft picks all think of all those stars hutchinson jameson williams pascal kirby joseph all the interceptions jemir gibbs superstar campbell at linebacker leporter leporter one of the

best tight ends in the league. Brian Branch, absolute dog and playmaker. Like those two drafts alone, but they had eight picks that were early in those two drafts. You got to nail them. Right. You got to get those picks right. I'm not devaluing the process of evaluating players.

If I did, I would be devaluating devaluing my life, right? That's what we do. We sit here. I watch tape on that screen and we take notes and we compare this to that and we cross check each other. But there's a lot of people that can evaluate talent, then it's figuring out the profile of a player, how he fits

what we want to do. Where do we want to attack in the draft? How do we move back and get more picks? So when we pull up that top 10 draft order again, and we start taking a look at it and we say, I'm not sure on Cam Ward. I see there's a lot of talent. I'm not sure on Cam Ward. I'm not sure on Shador. I think he's the best peer passer in this class. I think he is outstanding accuracy and touch. And I think he has instincts as a passer when things break down. But I'm more. worried about his pocket instincts. I'm worried about holding on to the ball too long, taking too many sacks.

I'm worried about his frame a little bit. It doesn't have an elite arm. And I look at the Tennessee Titans and I say, yeah, we need a quarterback. We'll have a assistant guy. But if I trade back here, right? If I trade back here and I pick up a second this year and a first next year, what would that do?

What would that set up my organization for? And if I trade back to, let's say, six to the Raiders or even three to the Giants, and I'm able to get those. I can still get it. Maybe it's not Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, but I'm still getting a good football player. Let's throw up that top 10 or the top 12 prospects in this class. Here's the update of top top 12 as I have it. Got to fill in a couple of those jerseys numbers.

It's not unlike me to be missing a couple of jersey numbers. We'll get those. At this point, we're about to shift focus from the college football playoff to the NFL draft. But Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, right? But then there's still Mason Graham at defensive tackle from Michigan. Also Michigan, Will Johnson, the cornerback. There's still pass rushers, Mikel Williams, Jalen Walker. And there's more beyond that, right?

Talking about Pierce, Tennessee, Scorton from Texas A&M. You talk about there's a running back to get a little bit later in the first. Who looks like an absolute star. You've got offensive tackles a little bit further down. It's not a great tackle class. But if I trade down, get a second this year, get a first next year, you know, get multiple picks and can get an offensive tackle. Like Josh Connerly that I believe in, Kelvin Banks, we've talked about Will Campbell getting a lot of love recently, by the way. Yeah. That's interesting.

From LSU. But I've got Chador Sanders and Cam Ward, neck and neck, same great. 91 grades sitting at 11 and 12. Why am I taking that at number one overall? Now, that doesn't mean Tennessee might have Cam Ward at number one overall. And there's talk that they may, okay? Yeah, but I'm with you. And the Giants may have Shador Sanders as their number two overall prospect or number one

overall prospect. And there's talk that they may. But if I don't believe in those guys, how about I follow this blueprint of Philly, Chiefs, Ravens, recently Detroit, bills recently. And start the process now. Try to trade back, if not get my edge. Get a defensive lineman. You know what I mean?

Start building a profile for my team and make this the first pick of the new regime. We're going to be physical. We're going to get after your ass. We're going to load up on defensive prospects early. We're going to get pass rushers. We're going to debes that can cover the. these guys in the league. I'll get my quarterback. Sooner or later, I'll get my quarterback, and I'm going to keep taking swings, free agency, bringing, you know, some retreads if I have

to draft one. But I'm going to put myself in position as an organization with two number ones next year, if I can get it, if there's a quarterback next year that I love, if we see the development in Nussmeyer, Garrett Nussmeyer from LSU, if we see the development in Carson Beck, you know, or whoever rises, you know, to the top, maybe I'm in position next year to get a guy. that I truly believe in. And I package those picks, move up and go get that guy, just like Kansas City did, just like Buffalo did. And again, right?

Yeah. This is why it's another example of why you need the, you need the support and just the support of your ownership. You need to be able to go to the ownership and be like, look, man, I know you've seen what happens with the commanders and they've turned this thing around in a year. And I wish we were in a position to do that. The stars aren't a line like that for us. This is our plan.

It's going to take a minute. understand that there's going to be some struggles going forward, but we have a really good plan to turn this organization around in the right way and not have that year where we're just going to go, you know, 10 and 7 and be a wildcard team because we got, you know, everything fell in place for us. We're building a long-term competitor here. And if you can get ownership to be like,

I understand what they're doing and that you get two to three years of trying to build this thing out, it's important that you have that kind of support from the ownership group. I'm just looking at Tucker, one of our producers notes. Is Tucker a Raiders fan? All I see is commitment to excellence. Just win, baby. What else?

I mean, you had a whole production meeting without me, Munch. Freedom to roll. Where do you want to go, brother? That was the most important part of it, man. That was the most interesting stuff to us. I mean, there is so much stuff that we're going to be getting into. You know, there's so much stuff in the bag for the upcoming, you know, we've got the college football playoff, national championship preview coming up on Thursday.

There's so much stuff to get into there. We're to start getting it after that. I mean, we got the reaction show on Monday night. Then we're going to get into the Senior Bowl. I think we're having Jim Nagy on, the director of the Senior Bowl. That's going to be awesome. So you, you're a pro. You're a pro now.

You're promo in this thing, wrapping it up. There's a lot of stuff. Why don't you give a rate a rate review, subscribe type of speech for us, too? Come on, come on. I don't have that down it. Hit like and submit, hit like and subscribe. If you like us, if you don't like us, I don't know what the whole feel is.

I know you got it down. I don't have it down. I just tell people, I feel like a scumbag, an absolute scumbag begging for, it's like begging for friends. So if you do like this show, please subscribe. Please click that like button. I've been saying the last couple weeks, like seeing kind of the numbers and the people, forget the numbers even.

Like the most fun I've had in a while is getting on that, the, chat during our live show the other night after the, after the Cotton Bowl and just talking to people and like getting everyone going. This is fun. We're building something here. So if you, if you've enjoyed any of it, please do click a couple buttons for us and make sure that you hang around with us.

As Mench alluded to and did a brilliant job of, we will be back on Thursday. We're going to preview the college football playoff. We're going to do a whole breakdown there. I'm sure there'll be some draft news between now and then, and we'll get to it as well. So many moving parts in the NFL right now. And then, what is it, Monday night, January 20th, reaction show.

And right now, you're going to hear it here. I don't care what's going on. I don't care if it's a 30-point blowout. And Fandul thinks it might be close to a 10-plus point blowout. Five minutes left in that game, we're coming on. But it's just more fun. We get the energy going. You can watch.

You can be doing two things. Everyone does it now. Everyone's watching their TV and watching a game and they're on their screens. So come join us with five minutes left. And then right, you know, immediately following, we'll just, we'll stay on the air and we'll do a full recap of that of the college football playoff. And that's, and that's a wrap. And like you said, Munch, after that, like, here we go. Here we go.

You know, draft season, got naggy on. We're getting ready. We're going to be there all week. We're going to get a bunch of different interviews, put them in the in the tank. But more so reacting to what's going on at the senior bowl, we're going to have access unlike any other outside of like the broadcast group. We'll be on the field. We'll be hosting the show. We'll have show people coming by the show saying hello.

It's going to be a lot of fun that week. First time we've done it. And we've been going there doing the same thing for, shoot, 99 was my first one. So like 25 years or stuff. That's why you see a couple of gray hairs in this beard. But for the first time ever, we're going to do it this way. And we're going to do it our way. And hopefully everyone will enjoy that with us.

So until Thursday, hope you enjoyed it. Hopefully we've provided a little blueprint. But, you know, doing our best. Talk to you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com.

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