The McShay Show - Coaching Carousel Buzz with Pete Thamel, and Ohio State Prospect Tiers | The McShay Show

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Todd and Steve welcome ESPN insider Pete Thamel to discuss the first College Football Playoff rankings and the job security of coaches such as USC’s Lincoln Riley and Florida’s Billy Napier. Then they dive into Ohio State tape and tier the Buckeyes' defensive prospects before pondering not one, but two potential Ohio State–Oregon rematches. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (0:25) Today's Show: Pete Thamel, CFP Reveal, Prospect Breakdown (1:05) Pete Thamel Joins The McShay Show! (3:20) CFP rankings (7:00) Projecting the College Football Playoff Teams (19:00) Miller Moss Benched, Dana Holgorsen Joins Nebraska (22:10) Will Stein's Impact as Oregon OC (29:35) How Did Chip Kelly end up at Ohio St.? (38:25) Who's on the Hot Seat? (44:50) 2025 QB Class (55:25) Ohio State Defeats Penn State: 20-13 (58:55) Evaluating #2 Caleb Downs (OSU Sophomore Safety) (1:02:00) 2025 NFL Draft: First Round Locks (1:05:40) Evaluating Tyleik Williams (1:08:10) Evaluating Ohio State's Cornerbacks: Davison Igbinosun & Denzel Burke (1:12:00) Expectations for Ohio State Going Forward (1:19:15) Coming up this week on The McShay Show (1:20:50) Evaluating Oregon's Win over Michigan: 38-17 (1:26:15) Jordan James' Draft Stock (Oregon Junior RB) (1:28:25) Dillon Gabriel's Draft Stock (1:34:25) Thanks For Watching! Host: Todd McShay Guests: Pete Thamel and Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, T. Cruz, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The McShay show is back. We've got a lot to cover today. So let's not mess around here at the top. We are pumped to have ESPN college football insider and good buddy. Pete Tham will stop by the show today, especially on this huge day. No, I'm not talking about the election. I'm not talking about NFL trade deadline. But yes, the first college football rankings reveal day.

How lucky are we, Mench, right? Then we have a lot to unpack, Mensch. We did a lot of tape study the last 48 hours. Oregon. state where are they personnel wise who are the NFL prospects listen it's week 11 in college football it's week 10 in the NFL and just 172 days remaining until the NFL munch you good i'm good man all right me some of those horns right now there he is pete what's going on man Todd good to see you man thanks for having me bud always uh always good to talk a little draft

and a little ball mensch i'm not gonna bore everyone with the background but i'll never forget right like 15 or so years ago and Pete wasn't wasn't a DSPN yet and I was I had the the year where urban Meyer was off right yeah right and and I'm flying right well but I'm but I'm flying down on like on Tuesdays every week and we're taping a segment every week for game day and and he was so you know how you know urban like when he gets on something like you just can't get him off the set and he like for three straight weeks he was telling me he's like Pete Thammle he's like oh I just love this Pete damn, well, guy, you know? And he's like, you know, I was like, well, I haven't met him, coach, I haven't met him, but, you know, I read his stuff. He does a really good job, you know,

one of the real insiders in college football. And he stopped me. If you know where he stopped, you go, no, no, no, Pete's the only guy. He's the only guy. I'm going to get him in touch with you. But I can go on and on, like the connections and the NFL drafts we spent together at ESPN and appreciate this guy as a human being as as as much as I do for his college football insider but no one wants to hear a long rant for me on this. Today's a big day. I certainly don't. I can tell you that.

I know. I'm well aware. Big day. It's, you know, election day, NFL trade deadline day, but it's also the rankings reveal day. And I wanted to touch on that, you know, early on. And anyone who knows college football, you know you can get them ESPN.com. You can see him every Saturday, college game day. His college game day podcast with Reese Davis and the fellas.

you can get him just about anywhere and everyone knows where to find him on on x as well where he's breaking news all the time including this morning but let's start with the rankings rankings reveal going into tonight it's exciting right like the first time with the 12 12 team playoff it's it just feels new and exciting and and it's so much more important now in terms of like when we get down to 9 10 11 12 what's kind of there are one or two things for you what are you most intrigued to see like the first time that we're getting inside kind of the mindset of this rankings committee? So it's a really interesting moment in time right now, Todd. Like this is, you know, I don't be overdramatic, but this is like the first chapter of this history here and

how this is all going to all going to work. And it comes with a really fascinating overlay because this playoff as it's existed before this year had really been the composite of the power elites. Now there were five, then there were four. But really now there's a lot. But really now there's only two, right? And Greg Sanky has really set an interesting tone for this. He's been like very blunt about how important this committee's role is in determining really the future of college football, right? You know, in those meetings in Nashville, he really went out of his way to say, you know, just like what these rankings mean because what the ultimate tension is going to come down to. It's going to be a metaphorical three-loss SEC team versus one-slash-two-loss big-12 ACC team and how that's going to work.

And sort of the lines that we're hearing from the power leagues is that the strength of schedule should matter. And really, record has mattered more if we really look back at the last iteration of the of the playoff. And so I just think it's going to be really interesting for the first drafts of history on this. Like where does Boise State go? have a chance to actually jump maybe an ACC champ or a Big 12 champ, especially at Big 12, if there's multiple losses, obviously Boise only has one loss. And they arguably played Oregon better than anybody has. We played them tough. But man, I mean, Boise was in control that game. And I think it took Oregon two special team scores in order to, you know, in order to win.

So I just think we're in this era where there's like more defined class designation. And there used to be a gap between the power leagues and the other leagues. Now there's a chasm between the power leagues and the other leagues and a gap between the power two and the next two. So how that notion, how those perceptions manifest themselves, I think is really going to be the key to kind of what these rankings are and how they mean. And I think it's so crucial for what the committee does this year, because we don't know what the college football playoff for certain is going to look like after two years. Right. We're in the 10th year of a 12-year deal and year 11 and 12 are all of a sudden 12 teams. But that next iteration, we think we know

what it looks like. It's supposed to be a 14 team, but we're not certain yet. And the ground rules for setting that aren't really defined. What we do know is the SEC and the Big Ten basically have unilateral control over what's going to happen, or at least the right to push things away. The Rogue Pack 2 teams aren't going to be able to push them around for things anymore. The voting structures change. And the world has changed. And I can't stress enough, this is here. 21 for me covering national colleges taught it like the last three years changed more than the previous 18 right and what this playoff looks like and how it works you can't overstate how crucial that is to just the future of college sports so again i don't want to be overdramatic but

it's just going to be an interesting test because people overreact to these rankings and there two weeks from now you and i could talk and we won't even remember who is ranked where in the first one right because there'll be you know a hundred more games played and new sets of rankings and somebody's going to win, somebody's going to lose, Georgia's going to play Tennessee. It's all going to get, you know, shaken up. George's going to play Ole Miss. Like there's plenty of data variables left. So I think this is more going to be a reputational litmus test than an actual, in really like a snapshot of the mindset of some of the, some of the tendencies we may see.

Is the expectation one team from the ACC, one team from the Big 12, one non-powerful. team like a Boise State it looks like right now and then everything else is going to be Big Ten and SEC you know I actually haven't sat down and like in grafted out yet and some of that is I'm not going to cover this like live so I haven't like dug in but I will actually just scratch this out now why don't why we do like a fun let's do it I love let's say let's give Oregon the big let's give Oregon the big 10 championship they've earned that right let's give Georgia That's a championship. Yep, I've got them at three right now.

They went one at Texas. The Big 12, boy, we can do a whole podcast on that. Let's do we give it to. Let's say BYU right now. Yeah, BYU, absolutely. That's actually a no-brainer. And then Miami and the ACC. Yeah, Miami and the Aces.

So those would be, and I think it's important for people to realize the rankings that come out tonight, it may be Oregon one, Ohio State, two, Georgia three. but when we talk about the seeding, those top four seeds are going to be the conference winners from the top four conferences, right? Yeah, and there won't be much controversy about the top four, right? Unless there's a fly in the ointment with that.

So let's just do that and we'll put Boise at 12. They seem to be the one that goes there. So then we have five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. We'll put Boise at 12 here. So I'll throw it. I'll throw some names up. So Ohio State will be at large, obviously. Yeah.

So if they, I think the battle for five, again, a lot of your listeners, Tom, might be draft people, NFL being. That might be hardcore college people. I think this is a really important point about this playoff. The fifth spot is the best spot you can have, you know, not just because it's the highest, because you get the group of five team and you get a home playoff game. Right. some people may say that it's like better than it and you play the four right as this thing goes out

yes i believe that's the case yes so you kind of you are lined up maybe like with a pinch easier path you got a home game now these home games i think it can't be overstated how awesome they're going to be a penned state night home game against boise awesome once in a lifetime memory making just like different Have you ever been to a night game at Happy Valley Town? Oh, yeah. Yeah, right out the whole deal. Yeah, it's just like, so that would playoff atmosphere, it's new. So I really think like the, you know, if you miss your conference title game and end up five,

like that's where this is going to be interesting. Like, say Ohio State loses to Indiana and then ends up, and then Indiana gets trucked in the title game and I don't know. Like, whoever ends up five is really like sitting in the game. Cap Bird seat. And as it stands right now, it would like, it would be Ohio State. Ohio State, yeah. So imagine home playoff game in the shoe at night, like, Rockus and always is really good. They pressed Oregon. You know, we're not giving them anything, but you'd think you can win. And then from there, you play D.Y.U. or Miami, right?

As, as this goes, which is not playing Georgia. If you go. So I really think that five spot needs to like, just like, you almost have to like highlight Asper, Hey, you can make a run here. Now, the other team you're going to play is rested, but you come off a home playoff game and you're rolling. Like, you got momentum. Yeah, there's something to that, man. Yes, absolutely. We see that in the NFL playoffs a lot too.

Absolutely. The other team hasn't played for three, four weeks now. You know, they can get stagnant. You got holidays, all that stuff. You can kind of lose rhythm. Also, you got dudes going on the portal. Like, your backup linebackers are going to be gone. Like, that whole dynamic is going to be fascinating.

Yeah. Remember, yeah, remember Lee Murphy last year, who's the starting quarterback at Duke? He's a, you know, really highly regarded California kid who played for Sark at Texas. He didn't go play with Texas in that game because he wanted to go in the portal, commit to Duke, and go start there. And I think another thing that some non-hardcore college people don't know is that the title games on January 20th. Like that's a little bit mind bending. Because remember you just think like New Year's and then it kind of like creeped out to the ninth or the 10th.

Yeah. Right. Now it's like the 20th. That's almost like another another month. That's a completely different mindset for freshness, injuries, depth, all that stuff. It's, and for the portal, like, you got to be in class in some of these places. Like, there's going to be tons of kids making really hard decisions. So Malik decided to go in the portal and go to Duke and get started. He didn't, you know, he had a big offer and a starting spot available and he didn't want to lose it. And I don't know. Like to. to go ride and be the backup. So there's just, and again, that's not going to be Ryan Williams making that decision, but it's going to be the, you know, the kid with 12 catches. Number three receiver, yeah, right. Who says, you know what, I'm going to go to Memphis next year and catch 60 balls. Like, do I stick around and do this or do I not?

And those are all metaphorical examples. But like, that's going to be real life. And if you're going on a month-long playoff, like you've seen it, all how many like random heroes show up in the NFL play and make a special team play or the tight end gets hurt and it's some dude you never heard of who becomes here like that's going to happen um i mean look like right now like texas a and m is down they're moving a defensive back to running back like right as as much as we've loved this era of all this big school collision there's collateral damage to it man like these you know these rosters are you know i mean i joke

on sundays that i'm the vampire because i'm either calling coaches about injured players or ADs about coaches who are going to get fired, you know? But like, you know, like yesterday I literally spent the whole day on the phone on injuries. It's just like there's just a lot of them because there are less flotsam and jetsam on your schedule and, you know, more big games, which means more big collisions. And as you extend the season by multiple games, you're just going to, you're just going to be dealing with that, with that type of stuff. Just to wrap it up and just my projection.

We'll see what happens tonight. But my projection, we talked about the four conference winners. we talked about Boise State, Boise State. And then you'd have Ohio State, Texas, Penn State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Indiana, Alabama. So it could be where it's loaded and as expected and as it should be with Big Ten SEC. So that's fascinating. No SMU, no pony love. Like that's where I'm interested.

Where's Boise? Where's SMU? Those are like the strength of schedule litmuses a little bit because SMU may not lose. news, you know, they're, you know, and, and may go play Miami, does SMU beats Miami? Does Miami still get in? Right. Yeah. Probably. And SMU just handled Pitt. I mean, they're coming off the biggest one of the year. Minus their two best pass catchers. Like, they're, you know, there's a great, there's a great scheme there. Nick Savenen said it on game day. Kevin Jennings, the most underrated quarterback in the country, really dynamic guy. They did a great job keeping two top quarterbacks. Like, that's really hard to do.

They had Preston Stone, who was kind of like the local. four-star big recruit for them. And I remember they brought Kevin Jennings to Media Day, which was interesting. They brought both, they brought both quarterbacks. I've been to a lot of media days more than I ever really care to admit. And they said, hey, we're bringing both quarterbacks. So right away, you're like, okay, like they want to keep him, but there's a good chance this dude's going to play a series or two and then they struggled. Who would have thought we'd be talking about the BYU-SmU game with like huge playoff. Yeah. But that rock fight that BYU and give them a ton of credit. Jay Hill is like offered one of the best defenses in the country

this year. Now like as you're talking about SMU and like well that's a really good loss, right? Yeah. That's a top 10 loss. Three points. Yeah. Yeah. BYU was was terrible last year in the transition to the big 12. So like that's I still think that's one of the beauties taught of college football is you have Indiana from straight out of nowhere, right? Right. Like we were at JMU last year with with Cignetti and they had an unbelievable run there. And they took a third. 13 guys. But who could have ever imagined? Like, who could have ever in their wildest dreams thought they'd be, and like, you know what? This isn't fluky. The level of competition hasn't

been great, but they're really good. They are execution monsters. Like, you'll appreciate this in the draft audience. Well, so we went there for the Washington game for game day. So I called around and was like, hey, to some scouts, area scouts have gone through there. I was like, so, you know, what's to do with these guys? One guy's like, dude, I had to go in there and write up 22 or 23 guys, which you know is like a huge number, like a veteran player. huge numbers. You know how many probably going to get invited at the combine? Really? The edge, Camara? Curtis Rourke. No, Curtis Rourke.

Of course. Okay. Yeah. And then now there's like a plug or nose tackle from Kent who, you know, like you could, you know, you could kind of go. Now, they have a couple younger guys, you know, who may end up, like, eventually emerging. There's a receiver, Surab who's really good. They've got like a great middle lineback, Raiden Fisher. I think those guys are, we're probably going to come back. You know, they're not like super traitsy guys are going to rise up boards. And look, they could get another player or two drafted late in the round. So I don't want to like, I don't want to sit there.

But the point is, you're going to get noticed. But this is not like some super team, you know, like they have one sure combine invite. Maybe we'll give them three just to be generous. Like Ohio State probably got like 18. Right. Yeah, we just went through their defense could have nine guys drafted. So yes. Yeah. No, this is a, it's a supremely talented Ohio State team. So anyway, like that's still like, and again, I'm not like some romantic. I cover a billion dollar pro sport. I've done it for a long time. But like the joy of college football is like, wake up and, you know, 5 a.m.

in the lobby being Stanford Cesar, we're in Bloomington. Here we are. Yeah. Just like we expected all along. So give Signity credit, man. What he's done there is one of the great coaching jobs that I've seen in my long time doing this. One of my joys working at ESPN mentioned, like, there's something about the urgency of just like hanging out.

you're in a green room or you're going to a set or whether it's with with them or or or you know any of the information got schifter obviously it's the same like you're always kind of all right what's going he's on what's going on you know like it's a scoop so this morning we had to push back talking to because because there's breaking news so bring us bring us up to speed what's going on a couple stories that you broke already today a couple stories where i was worried i would have set the time for this earlier a little bit but uh i didn't i don't I didn't know what the voting line was going to look like in South Boston, but it was very, very efficient, so I was appreciative of that.

You're the cathedral church? No, you know, it used to be the middle school on D, but we just moved, and it was on on West. I'm thinking of the South End. That's where I used to vote. Yeah, you're South End. Yeah, no, I'm South East. Sorry.

Yeah, but very, very smooth, all local, all local constituents. And I'm not very political, but I think you guys can agree with this very non-political statement. I'm really glad the political ads will be leaving, you know, those of us who watch football for like, you know, 30 hours a weekend. Like, just like enough. Enough. Yeah, that's all.

No, no red, bring me back like the Burger King. Yeah. I can't wait to see Nick's doing, doing, uh, Afflack commercials. Yeah. Let's. Give me the duck. The duck is not political. Right.

Um, I lost my trade of thought there. So the two stories that you broke this morning. Oh, yeah. Sorry. So it was, uh, and I'll give credit, USC Football.com while I was sleeping. last night broke that Miller Moss is getting benched. And Jaden Mieva, who had a really nice true freshman year at UNLV, is going to get the start against Nebraska.

Now they play in two weeks. And there will be maybe a little new flared in Nebraska offense because they've just hired Dana Holgerson as a consultant. We all know Dana Holgerson from his very good quarterback work at Texas Tech, Houston, West Virginia, Houston again, you know, really one of the highly regarded guys. And look, like, you know, Nebraska's on a three game losing streak. their offenses in a slump. You know, coaches I talked to said they kind of saw Dylan Raola plateau and maybe regress a

little bit after that really strong start he had. I agree. There's a strong belief in his talent, Todd. And you would have a better gauge of arm talent and such. But the thought is they need to write that ship. And look, Nebraska, this is a mind-bending stat, hasn't been to a bull since 2016, which is the longest drought of any power conference team in college football. And I think generally only UMass and.

Monroe haven't been longer. So imagine if in 1995 I popped down the shoulder and said, hey, Nebraska will have the longest bull drought. Like you would, yeah. You could, you can't even like, no way. Put your mind around. I mean, they fired Bo Polini for winning nine games. Yes.

Yes. And like, so, like, so I think there's some urgency in that program right now. They're at five and four to get to, to get to six. Yep. They have USC. I know they go to Iowa at the end of the year and I think they host Wisconsin in between. So no, look, you're in these power leagues. There's no layups, man.

There's no gimmies. Yeah. Yeah. And my joke this year, somebody's finishing 18 in the Big Ten, whether you like it or not. Like, people lose half the games still, like, even though you get more TV money. So, and that's tough. Like, USC is 15th in the Big Ten right now. It's like that's, you know.

It's crazy. It's a wild statement. And again, most of those have been one score games. So Miller Moss, I think, is second in the, in the Big Ten and Interceptions. find aidan Childs, the young quarterback at Michigan State. Raill is third. He's got eight picks. So it's a very neat confluence here.

We'll see Jane Maivas' first start with Daniel Holgerson. You know, he's a consultant, so I don't think he's going to be like calling plays or anything, but they're bringing him in to juice up the office and do what Dana Holgerson has done to bring it a fresh set of eyes to try to, you know, to try to unlock a little bit more of Raola's potential. sometimes as a quarterback, not changing the picture, but kind of readjusting your focus and having someone come in,

it can be simple stuff. Like, hey, where are you looking on this? All right, let's check the cornerback on this first. Pre-step, you know, like little things can all of a sudden, just it ticks. And you see it like with a really good coaches who have experience and know what they're doing,

can come in and say, we're doing a lot of great things here. but but let's do this these four or five things a little bit differently and all of a sudden, then you see the confidence build. So, I mean, we're all hopeful for Rayola because he is a special talent. I agree.

Yeah, I mean, he's a special talent. Another, you know, I'll transition with this because because there's a guy in college coaching right now that I don't know there's getting enough credit and soon he will. Will Stein, you talk about changing the picture for guys. What Will Stein was able to do with Bo Nix and to bring out the best in him,

what he's been able to do with Dylan Gabriel and bring out the best in him. Like the tape I'm watching, man, like it's so fun to watch. Dylan's always been able to win big games. He's always had this aggressive approach, but he always had the one or two games a year where it's just like he couldn't get out of his own way.

And now I just see the most comfortable, relaxed, confident version of Gabriel. Do you think he gets drafted, Todd? We're going to get into that a little bit later. I just asked a bunch of scouts. I think it's a fascinating question because a month ago, before that Ohio State game, I think the answer amongst scouts you've seen him was probably not. Let me preview the conversation we're going to have later because I just got done with a bunch of stuff.

This is literally the first day of the entire Dylan Gabriel experience where I am saying, yeah, I do think you should get, get drafted. Great. Yeah. 5.11, I understand. But the way he's playing, the confidence that he's shown, the way he's distributing the ball. The touch on the deep balls. Oh, my gosh.

Yes. Yeah. So anyway, back to Will Stein. Yeah. Because I kind of did a little deep dive on Will Stein and try to feel like, where's this guy from? And you got to remember, Dan Lannick takes over this job. He's got to have an O.C. he trusts is a defensive guy.

And you got Phil Knight and all the money and the uniforms and the expectations, right? And to go hire Will Stein with his very minuscule background was, talk about onions, Kuyans. What can you tell us about that higher and what you know about Will Stein, his background? So I've known Will for a while, and he's a really impressive young coach.

I believe he was a walk-on at Louisville. And I believe he's from Louisville. And learn from Bobby Petrino, which you can learn a lot of what to do. We can probably learn a few things not to do. I'm glad you said it. That's fair. I don't think that's like glaring criticism.

Right. Not at all. But Bobby Petrino has an offensive mind. Yes. In my 21 years, he's in the top five. You know what I mean? Like that dude knows how to move the ball. He knows offensive football.

There is, you know, as I'm sure it wasn't, you know, a Miss Rachel episode every day in the quarterback. there at the but a lot of football was learned if you if you focus on the information and not on the delivery so from there will went on uh will went on an interesting journey he was uh he was with charlie strong then as a as a as a ga and a qc at louisville and then move with charlie some of this is off memory here as i look at uh as i look at this to texas and was a was a qc at texas he transitioned from charlie's era to the herman era and then uh went a really interesting career move.

2018, 2019, he went to Lake Travis High School where Texas commit and, you know, really highly

regarded recruit, Hudson Card was the quarterback. And there's a head coach at Lake Travis named Hank Carter, who's been there forever,

who's just one of the best football coaches in the country. That guy's produced a solid, consistent winner for a lot of years. And just because

the logo on your chest or the lead you coach and whatever, that doesn't mean you're the best coach. This guy's an elite, elite coach. And I think it was

a really, smart move for Will who went who went there got Texas high school experience got around great players coached and tutored Hudson card and by the way I don't think the Texas staff was complaining that the Texas offense was being run by their star recruit in their backyard like it was like a little like cheat code um so they could kind of get get Hudson ready to uh ready to go there from there he had worked with Jeff Trailer along the way at Texas so he went to UTSA as the receivers coach past game coordinator eventually became the co-o-seeing quarterback coach at UTSA. Jeff Trailer is very big on promoting from within.

So 2022, and you remember they had Frank Harris as their quarterback at UTSA. He was there for approximately 67 years as the starter. And was a great, great college player. I think he was there seven years. But he was a great, great college player. So Will was able to maximize him. and then really with like three seasons of on-field coach experience, he gets hired as Oregon's coach,

really does an unbelievable job with Bo Nix, right? I mean, his completion percentages and, you know, we're mind-boggling last year. And then he gets Dylan Gabriel. So good on Will Stein, like, is a coach, I always tell coaches this when I talk about, should I go to this job, but you've got to put yourself in position to win, right?

Yep. And he has aligned himself with, Harris, who was a monster winner, Bo Nix, who was in his sixth year of college, what he started, 80 games, like preposterous thought, like, you know, and, and then obviously Dylan Gabriel. So, yeah, we'll see what happens when he doesn't coach a 60 year senior, right? And I'm joking, but like, good for Will Stein, because there's a lot of good players who you don't get the most out of. So he has found great situations, and he has worked very hard to do that. He will be very quick to tell you that it is a,

it is a collaborative effort on that, on that Oregon football staff. They have a, they have an excellent veteran receivers coach by the name of Junior Adams, who's been around. Junior Adams recruited that whole Washington receiver room that all went in the top 50 last year. So he was at Washington and he brought all those guys in. He brought him Polk from tech. He recruited Adunze out of high school.

or remind me how he was the third one. McMillan. Yeah. Yeah. So he was the guy who was responsible for that run. He went from Washington to Oregon. He's a really, really sharp coach. He's got a big voice in the offense.

And then the tight ends coach there is Drew Marringer, who's been an OC at JMU, Rutgers, a few other places. Will, if I'm right, was Drew's GAQC at Texas early on in Herman's time there. So they have a great relationship. They think about football in a lot of the same ways because they they merge together. So like Will Stein's calling it. He's doing a great job. But, you know, from what he has told me, you know, there's a collaborative effort there.

Rashad Samples is the running back coach. He's in his first year there. He's a bright young guy. He spent some time with the Rams and with Arizona State. But there is a, they are very, they are very quick to say that there's a lot of collaboration. It's not just like Will off scripted him by himself. But it is a remarkable run for, you know, for a guy who's a younger guy to 35 years old. Yeah.

To have to have ascended and performed consistently at that level. And hats off to Dan Lannning to make that leap, you know, when I'm sure. I'm sure it was criticized or people had questions like, really, this is your guy with all the resources we have. And to see to see that turn turn out the way it has so far. Man, you asked me an interesting question. the other day. You can you can ask Pete about like the dynamics and the Ryan Day, Chip Kelly, like how that all went. Go ahead and ask him. Yeah, I was wondering, I wanted to know how that unfolded. And Todd made the good point that they, you know, they're talking all the time.

But when push came to shove, who first was the first one to breach the topic of, hey, man, I think I'm coaching the quarterbacks because my offense corner left at UCLA. I'm loving it. It's reminding me of what I really love about the game. I'm thinking about maybe getting out. Is there anything going on in Ohio State? Who was the first one? Do you know who was the first one to bring it up and how that kind of that conversation unfolded? Do you have any kind of background on that?

So I'd say this, Steve, like the, we talked about 1 to 18 in the Big Ten. Yep. And this is my vision. Nobody said this directly to me. Like UCLA, where they were with NIL, where they were with roster, where were the resources was trending a lot closer to 18 than one.

Yes, agree. Yeah. And that's just not a, fun place to live, right? And so, Chip, at all the pressures being a head coach. And if you know Chip Kelly, like, you know he likes to coach football, right? Like, that's, that's who he is at his core. I mean, he was the New Hampshire offensive coordinator for like a dozen years. We were at Richmond and played against him. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, there's no, like, there's not a lot of, uh, what's the word I'm over here with

chip here. Like, like the ball is the thing he likes. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. And he doesn't like to self-promote. He doesn't like to talk about himself hardly, hardly ever. I remember going to his office when they were hot at Oregon in his second year, the year they made the they made the title game. And look, I live in Boston. We know a lot of people comment. I remember I sat there. We'd like, chatted it up for like half an hour and I turned the recorder off. I was like, dude, you got to say something. Like I came 3,000 miles. And he was just like, you know, I was like asking I'm like, you know, like when you can start the interview and ask reporter questions. And I think like the, you know, the dynamic between Chip Kelly and Ryan Day can't be,

can't be overstated, right? Yes, right. Ryan grew up in New Hampshire. They went to like what I've heard and read the same elementary school, the same junior high, the same high school. They knew all the, they knew all the same people just in, is it Manchester? Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Manchester and Hampshire in that, you know, in that small. town in that area. You know, Ryan's been very open in a powerful way about his talking about his dad dying of suicide when he was nine years old. And he has a lot of uncles and other folks who, you know, were role models in his life. But it's undeniable that, you know, once he hit high school and started getting recruited by Chip, there was just like a strong bond there.

And so, you know, he plays for him. They grew up together. I mean, I remember when Chip got promoted, he offered the job. at Oregon to Ryan that Mark Helferch ended up getting. And Ryan didn't want to leave the Northeast and didn't take it at the time. I think he was at B.C. And I think he had a young family. So like there's always been like a really, really strong tie between those guys.

Sean McDonnell, who was the head coach at New Hampshire for a very long time, Chip worked for him. You guys obviously played against Sean when you were, when you were at Richmond. And, you know, like that tree of guy, I mean, there's true, like Kevin Decker's. is the OC at Old Dominion now. Like, like that tree of guys, Alex Grinch is in that tree. Like there's like, there's like branches of it. Game current. Holy Cross came from that.

Yes. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. The, yeah, there's just got like, like you go out, you go out in New England and you meet like a random Villanova coach. It's like a 50-50 chance at like a satellite camp that he like played for Sean McDonald or coach for Sean McDonald or like G-Aid for him at at some point at at at some point along there.

So I thought that moment was pretty neat between Chip and Ryan after the Penn Steaking. Like that's genuine, genuine emotion. Yeah, knowing those guys that well and being able to like sitting on my couch just watching it. I was like honestly, like I know Chip as well as probably any coach out there because of all the ties here as well. Knowing Chip the way I know Chip and how excited he was to get back to coaching ball and and do it with his guy. Yeah. Like how, how, and, and to put, that was brilliant what he did on, on Saturday. I'm just going to be out.

Like, that was his master class. He was a great game plan. And to be able to do that on the biggest stage in that moment for, for your guy. He's like a son to him, right? Yes. And to be able to go pull off that performance and a win that they desperately needed because we all know the pressures of being the head coach in Ohio State and the records versus top five teams. all like that was as genuine as you will get from two dudes that just truly love one another.

It was cool. Yeah. Ryan Day in the post game with Jenny Tapp looked like he won Powerball. You know, like it was like a halogen lamp of a smile. You know, he just looked. It looked like a catharsis, you know? Like he, you can see him wearing the stress, right? Like, you know.

Now it's like, now it's like, okay, now we can go coach. Now we can go do what we love to do. we had to get that one, you know? Yes. No, there was, you know, it was a really interesting, you know, a couple days, build up and game day there and everything because it was just sort of like a really interesting moment in time, right? Two super successful people who are in the top 1% of their profession in success, right?

And in Ryan Day is the highest winning percentage of any active coach in college football if you go over like five years. So, you know, like hyper successful, right? James Franklin, hyper successful by any metric, pulled that place out of the ditch and out of like, you know, like people forget that, man. Bill O'Brien was their two years, did a great job just sort of like kind of transition and saving it. And James pulled it on and has brought it a long way. But like people get spoiled and everybody wants the biggest prize. And so like they basically generated new pressures on them, you know, on themselves. So I think Penn State will finish the deal here and, uh, and went out and

end up in the playoff. And look, they could they could end up in that in that five spot maybe too, right? Like, you know, like so. Or. Or. there's a really good chance to end up with a home playoff game. If their only losses to number fill in the blank Ohio State on, you know, a game that came down to two yards, basically, you know, there's, you know, they do have to finish and, you know, they're not, they are a flawed team. They don't have great outside skill.

And so that, you know, they have very good backs. They have good quarterback. I think Andy Codlonecki's done a really nice job. I do too. Opening things up and giving that offense a little bit of light. right um but there is you know there there there are um yeah there they are they are still a little bit flawed like you know most modern college football teams as they go but it was just a really interesting intersection of those of those storylines and just a case study in handling big game

pressure right and big in big game stress and you wonder if ohio state now feels like they're past it and then they can just play unencumbered that you know That's what I kind of feel like. Yeah. It's interesting, yeah. I want to say, I was watching on TV the last play. They had like two backup tight ends in, you know, because Kashmarik, who's, they're blocking tight end, missed the game.

They've got the guard Jackson playing tackle. They got Hinsman playing guard. Like, to me, it was a little bit of like, and then you have Quinchon Junkins run around the edge on the slide play and deliver a hammer block to seal that. Yes, yes. And Reese Davis mentioned this on our pod. on the play Howard got stripped on, Travion Henderson delivered like a declet block that had the scouts wooing. So you've got a program win. You've got your superstars doing the dirty work.

You've got backups playing huge roles. Like Brendan Innes had a monster game in that game. So to me, that's like, that's when the program is humming, when it's not just like, let's wait for Jeremiah Smith to make a play. Let's wait for Mecca to make a play. You really have engaged. They had a backup defensive tackle McDonald make one of those big stops in the, in the middle there because High League Williams, I believe, was out. So like that's all of a sudden when you're saying, okay, like this is not, you know, this isn't just glitzy superstars, but there's some, there's some grit here. All right, from all the feel good stories, and we'll get you out of here,

just two last questions for me. To, you know, the inevitable part of your job, we're getting closer to Thanksgiving. You know, we already saw a second head coach in the NFL get fired. Talk about the hot seat. like this we're not going to be a hot seat type of show here. Obviously more NFL draft and personnel, but we've got you here. And I feel like it's important to just to ask you the question.

Names like Hugh Freeze, Billy Napier, you know, Lincoln Riley, Mike Norvell. What are you hearing? What should we know at this point and what's going on in some of those big spots? So always the hot seat should be guided by contract. Lincoln Riley to be fired would be owed 90 million. dollars. And you would have a bet 90 plus. You would have a better sense of his NFL market than I would

Todd, but it's drastically different than it would have been as a head coach two years ago. I mean, I agree. I agree. I agree. And that's a tough sell for a guy with no NFL experience to come in. And oh, by the way, he's making 10 million bucks. So, like, again, could he go do it Clifton and call plays? Yes. Would he have to take a 60% pay cut probably? Yes. And that's, not easy for anybody to do. I don't want to take a 60% pay cut. I'm sure you guys don't want. So like, you know, just because it's not working and you're unhappy.

But it is, it is a difficult situation there now. He's in year three. They've progressed clearly, right? You know, is, is Juju Lewis the piece of quarterback, the kid they have committed from Georgia? He's a, he's a special quarterback talent, you know, reclassed. So he'd come in young. And, you know, so I think that situation,

barring something pretty drastic, right, is probably just going to keep playing itself out. From there, freeze will get more time, my understanding is. He'd be owed 20 plus million. He inherited a roster that was deficient in talent. They're 50 in recruiting right now. So I think there'll be some more staff changes in refinement there.

But I don't feel like that's hot, much like Mike Norvell, who'd be owed $65 million. Like, he had back-to-back, 10-win seasons. He was undefeated in the regular season last year. I can't see, you know, I don't even think those are really conversations. Billy Napier, that's conversation. Yeah. I would say that I give Billy Napier a lot of credit because, you know, they were DOA coming

out of that A&M game. They had back-to-back home blowout losses. And it's hard in this era, especially to keep a team together rallied in sync with a lot of noise around them. So I think Billy Napier has done an excellent job coaching this football. team. They have a ton of young talent that you're starting to see. And look, they were competitive with Georgia. I mean, they were. They were quarter. Yeah. A lagway went off. Yeah. If Lagway doesn't get hurt, you never know. And you feel bad they're, excuse me, Todd. But their schedule is brutal,

man. Brutal. And they're one of the rare teams that had two good quarterbacks. It's hard to have two good quarterbacks on your roster. And they had two and they're both hurt. And that's just like, that's just now we're down to a Yale transfer. Yeah. And then I think have Clay Millen on their roster who played at Colorado State and Washington State. I believe he's of the West Coast Millons, but he's their four-string quarterback, so I'm not going to claim I know much more about him than that. So it would be $26 to $27 million to fire Billy Napier. That would be the second biggest buyout in the history of college football. It would, yes. So Jimbo is the highest and Dust Mall's on. It was in the 20s, mid-20s somewhere.

What was Jimbo's again, remind me? 76 yeah wow cool 76 yeah that's nothing the oil money we're good yeah what about gundee at oklahoma state so i mean he's he's sort of earned a bad year i would think um because remember they he got in some trouble right said some said some said some things they kind of re-engineered his contract but i believe they've re-engineered it back now so i don't think they're a conversation but look he's an excellent football coach i'm shocked that they're winless in the big 12. I'm sure. Yeah. It's just like six in a row.

Yeah. It's just it's surprising. They had 19 starters back. That number is always a little bit ambiguous because you know, how do you count a starter? But they had their whole offensive line. They had Ollie Gordon, who's best tailback in the country. Like they had Alan Bowman who, again, isn't going to blow anybody away, but was like a functional veteran, 24 year old. Yeah, a lot of a quarterback to win the big 12th. Yeah, exactly. The, the perfect quarterback to execute a, you know, don't mess it up offense, right? Run the ball. make your reads, you know, run through it a little bit. So I don't really know what's gone on there, but I do anticipate some changes,

just not with just not with Mike. But it is like shocking. John Wilner, the West Coast writer for the Bay Area newspaper group, had a great tweet. He had the top five preseason Big 12 picks. And K State has a winning record, the other four of like bad losing records. They're not like three and four. It's like, oh and five, one and, you know.

So it's. It's been, it's, that league has been a lot of fun. I'll tell you that. You know what I mean? Like I don't, we'll see how competitive they are come the playoff. And I think it'll be an interesting litmus. But right now as the season has gone on, like I've had a blast watching those, watching those games, watching Iowa State, Texas Tech this weekend, K State Houston this

weekend, you know, like the games are close. The league's competitive, you know, the teams play like, you know, interesting offensive styles. So it's been, it's been a lot of fun. Manj, I think we'll finish on this, but I think the thing that goes probably most unnoticed about Pete is how dialed he is, dialed in he is with NFL scouts. Like my favorite, you know, you get Schefter on his phone and he's got all the, you know, all the guys in the league and him up there and all the people we've talked to throughout the process, all of our friends in the league. But every year at the draft, the last several years, with Pete kind of hanging around the ABC set and would have so much information. like the time I would go into a commercial and like hunt them down and like but he's so humble they're like he's like yeah just take this take this little nugget so like I've always appreciated his his ability to you know provide insight

provide information on the NFL draft and we're not listen we're in the middle of the college football season we all care about what's going on you know on the field right now but I do want it before we let you go kind of reel you in a little bit and and just get one question we'll stick to the quarterbacks today sure I know I've seen you on game a couple of times kind of polling NFL scouts. And this year's class is different. Like it's just it's there's a lot of different opinions. When I talk to people in the league, it's not like last year's group where you've got,

you know, six quarterbacks and four that we know. And so while it's, while it's not to that level a year ago, there still is some talent and things have changed throughout the year. We've got, you know, Garrett Nussmeyer playing great for most of the year, except that second half he had against A&M. Cam Ward has had a huge rise.

Chaturre Sanders is playing the best ball of his career. Carson Beck is struggling in Georgia. So with that kind of as the backdrop, what are you hearing when you talk to NFL Scouts just specifically with this year's quarterback class? Yeah. I think the best way to say it, Todd, is I'm hearing everything, right?

And it's really interesting. One of the things that I like about talking to scouts is you kind of have conversations in a silo. You know what I mean? Like you're never in like a group where there's a bunch of, like, and there's some group thinking scouting, get me wrong. But like you, I have guys who, like, are convicted on Chador and I have guys saying they wouldn't touch Chador. Like, there's just so many different, you know, that I've never had as

divisive of a draft class. So I did a, I did a poll the other day. Another, another political reference, right? And I texted or called 20 scouts and said, hey, who's your QB1? It was, I looked it up here because I thought you might ask me about it. It was October 5th. We did, we did the hit when we were in, we were in Berkeley. And it was nine for Shador, and Beck had just had the bad game against Bama. He still had five. Milro had four. And then Ward and Ewers had won. So the fun part about that exercise is like, you know, Scouts, like they take pride in their opinion, right?

So like it's become with a bunch of them like an ongoing conversation. Because somewhere like I like Nussmeyer, but not quite yet. And then somewhere got hot on Nussmeier. And then he obviously had that awful second half at A&M. I think Nuss Meyer should come back. This is just an opinion. Nobody's asked me. And be the top guy next year.

Totally agree. He might go in the first round this year, but like, so did Anthony Richardson. Yeah. Like, you got to play, man. Like, I don't know anything about scouting. I can't tell you like. With his dad. With his dad and the NFL.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, they're not going to go take the short money. Like, set yourself off. The Uers camp used 25 starts as a litmus. And I think that's a lot of. a really good number and they had good historical data to back that up. Like, if you're going to make

it, you have to play a whole bunch of football. Like, that's just like, I'm never going to be able to tell you like his hip flex and his knee and it synced to his elbow. No, I have no idea. But like, you got to play football to be able to play football. That's just like what I've seen. Right. Yes. Yeah, he played a lot of football. Some of it wasn't great. I'm actually a believer in like overcoming struggles is like part of like what you have to do. Like, can you imagine? You want to see how a guy responds. Like, it's. You just don't want this to be this unimpeded, like joy, you know, joyride. Like, Rayola's rut this year at Nebraska is eventually going to help him, you know, as he moves on as a prospect, because he's got to figure out how to face adversity, move on, adjust, and keep moving and growing.

Because there aren't, there aren't a lot of Tom Brady careers. You know what I mean? Like just where it's like. Tom Brady's career was a night. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's what fueled him, you know? Correct.

Yeah. So I just think it's a I think it's a really, really interesting year. I was sort of bullish that five quarterbacks would get taken the first round last year, and I was on an island on that, like a senior goal for a while. And then eventually there were six, and it all came. I don't have any conviction right now on how many in the first round. Because like what I don't, I know just from flipping channels on Sunday, but I don't track the NFL that closely.

I just know there's a glaring need, right? Tim Boyle starting games, like there's a need. And this class may not match with that need, but that doesn't mean the need isn't there. Right. So I'll be curious, I'm talking to somebody yesterday and they sort of positive this theory. Like we have not had a middle class taught of quarterbacks in a while, right? Like we've had, so was it, Rattler was the next pick after Nixon 12? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think he was like 190. Uh-huh. Something like that. He might have been fifth, actually. He dropped. Maybe, yeah.

Yeah. And so is this the year that maybe the middle class comes back for quarterbacks? Because, yeah, he was 150. Sorry. And is this year the middle class comes back for quarterbacks in the sense that, like, after Chadorador, I don't know how many people are going to use, like, big, big draft capital. Yeah. But that said, it's not a great draft.

That's the general sense that I've got. Overall, every position. Overall, yeah. Just like, it's just not. It's just not. Yeah. Some are, some are. This one isn't.

So that's going to skew the quarterback value, right? But I wouldn't be surprised if like somebody took Quinn Ewers in the second. Like just as this thing, as this thing goes, yours to me feels like a guy who would go to an NFL team could hide him for a year or two in the late first. You know? Yeah. I'm a believer in his pure arm talent and his tools. And the Georgia game to me, the guy pressured 50%. of the time.

Like it's, you know, to me that wasn't like, Carson Beck has had some moments where you're like, whoa, what's this guy doing? To me, you were just like got run out, you know, got running. No, they did. Yeah, that was a, you got railroaded that night. Yes, it's just like, and he has plenty of, plenty of other tape. So, you know, where, where do things settle? I feel pretty confident today saying Shador is the first one off of the floor.

Like that. I would agree with that. I think that it's interesting. I think everyone, everyone who cares about. these young men and everyone in the league who wants to see a product that is is ready to contribute to an organization tends to agree that that Nussmeyer while he could be probably he yeah i would say this he will be a first round pick if he comes out this year but you'd rather him go back to school same with jalen milro and then you know carson beck and ewers are kind of to me i'd love to draft

him in the second round you know so i don't have to use that first round pick on him but the second really Todd in November is a first round pick in May that in every freaking I don't mean to interrupt you but like all those guys like yeah he's gonna be a sacred oh he'll be a sacred rick j jay mccarthy he'll be a sacred rick like this is the conversation right now yeah and you know fast forward we know yeah but the most intriguing guy to me now i think the biggest wild card would be milro but i think he should go back to school and play more the most intriguing to me right now is cam war because yeah because the conversation everywhere on like line. It's Cam Ward, Cam Ward and Shadour, Cam Ward and Shadour, and there's a lot to love, but there's a lot to be scared of on his tape. And the more people you talk to in the league, there's more second round grades than there are like lock first. Sure. And look, he's been,

first of all, has there been a more fun player to watch in college football? There's here to Cam Ward. I mean, he's no. Proposterously fun. And their defense is a sieve, so it just keeps giving them to the ball back. So he gives you it again and again. And he plays just with this like, nonchalance in this natural movement. It's really cool. And what a story, right? Talk about overcoming adversity. He goes to incarnate word from a whole hall high school and goes with his coach to Washington State. Like that guy, that there's some internal drive to that guy. That's very real and really, really, really, really impressive. But I would just, you know, is he a refined quarterback prospect right now? I would say no, right? Like it's just, you know, and is he a blast to watch

super productive? And is he, you know, leading Miami out of like two decades of doldrums? Yes. And yes, like he's been an alpha. He's been a leader. All those, you know, those intangible questions seem to be, seemed to be answered. But he's just like, so loosey-coose. And there's turnover issues going all the way back. And yeah, but like that's what makes this whole thing. What makes him brilliant also makes them really scary. Correct. Exactly. Yeah, that's, that's Shakespeare. And your greatest strength is, greatest weakness, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it'll be interesting to see the puzzle come together, but like I wouldn't be shocked if we end up with four dudes in the first round at the end,

just as like history with history as my guy. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not saying that, yeah, like, again, you can call this up, have me on in March and make fun of me. But I, I just think like there's so much need. And there are some pretty talented, toolsy guys that, that it just wouldn't surprise me. It doesn't have to be a great class for it to be a fun class. I've learned that over the years. This is going to be a fun class. Yes, absolutely.

We are going to call you up in March and we are going to, but we're not going to bring you in to make fun of you. But we are, I appreciate your time, but I've just appreciated getting to know you and becoming friends with you and our trip to Boston College to meet. Zay Flowers, right? There's eight flowers and half and those guys. and just keep in touch. We'll talk to you soon and good luck and safe travels to you.

Yeah, awesome. I've enjoyed your new venture so far and we'll continue to be listening, especially when the season ends and I'm in draft mode more than college football mode. But this has been awesome, Todd. Really appreciate your buddy. Thanks, man. And everyone knows where to find him. College Game Day on Saturday, college game day podcast and ESPN.com breaking news left and right.

So we appreciate you, Pete. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Todd. Thanks, Steve. The McShay Show is brought to you by Fanduel. Keep your college football season going with a win on FanDuel. Because right now, new customers can kick off the season with $150 bucks in bonus bets. Just place any $5 bet, and you'll get $150 bucks in bonus bets if you win.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-help.com. All right, Mitch. That was a lot of fun with family. He never disappoints.

It's you and I now. Let's not mess this thing up. I love when you text me and you're all fired up about something. And you kind of took it upon yourself to do a deep dive. I never know where you're going to go. But you did a deep dive into Ohio State, their defense specifically, but watching a lot of Ohio State tape. But let's face it, like there's a lot to get excited about now.

Now you have, if you're Ohio State, that signature win, if you will. They played a great game for the most part, not a perfect game, but played a really good game, I'd say, against Oregon and the loss. I don't even think on Saturday it was Ohio State's A game. I would say it was their B game. But had it been not for like three, four plays, they might have blown out Penn State in Happy Valley. Yeah, I think that's something Ohio State can look at right now

when they're looking forward about something to be optimistic about. I don't think they played their best game yet. And they took, they were right there with Oregon at the end of that game. And you look at that tape. And again, that was not their. best game. They still haven't put together their best performance. So I think that's something if you're if you're an optimist, that still might

come down the road when they need it the most. Yeah, and I went back after you set up, you know, I'm doing a deep dive for whatever reason you decided on Ohio State. I went back and watched the two tapes specifically, Ohio State Defense versus Oregon, Ohio State defense versus Penn State. And I saw improvement. I actually saw improvement from the first drive. against Penn State and the adjustments they made. Like that first drive against Penn State,

they were getting gashed up the middle. And it was, it was, Ty Leake Williams and the other defensive tackle 58, I think it was. Ty Hamilton, yeah. Ty Hamilton. To me, like, they were getting up the field. They were penetrating.

They were disrupting. But they were getting gashed in the middle of the field, specifically by quarterback runs. So I don't know if it was a gap discipline thing, if they were getting out of the rush lane. Yeah, I think that's been an issue overall over the course of the years. They've been getting caught out of lanes. You see it in the Oregon tape a little bit.

I don't know if you did. But there was a couple times that they let, you know, you have a 5-11 quarterback in Dylan Gabriel. And they're letting him step up and create windows. It's not so much that they needed to get him to him, I thought. They needed to take away space and really affect what he could see within the pocket. And they were just trying to, they were just, I thought, too aggressive. Yeah. But after that first drive against Penn State, I noticed, like, we're pinching in more.

more gap discipline, not perfect, but more cognizant, if you will. Right. To me, it was like they came over the sideline, talked to the coaches, very obvious the tweaks they were making in-game, which as a coordinator, you love that, that your players are responding to what you're coaching them on the sideline in-game. Like, that's not always an easy thing to do. So I thought they cleaned that up. And so the first drive, Drew Aller, had three productive runs.

I think it was three. Yeah, three productive runs. And from that point, after that first drive, that was not really a major aspect of the game anymore. So to see them clean up some of those things was impressive. But let's just start with you, bud. You went through the tape. I did too. What stood out to you the most?

And I'm going to, I'll start with one thing and then I'll let you take it. My God is number two different. Oh, yeah. I mean, Caleb Downs, the safety for Ohio State is like, he can play in the NFL tomorrow. Right. And I don't say that lightly. I don't. I'm not going to those like, oh, he got high school.

I don't believe in that sort of thing. I do believe in the tape, though. And I believe in the, like his instincts, his aggressiveness versus support. Like some guys are just different. You know what I mean? Like some guys, all right, let's take 44 out of the game. And when he was matched up against Warren, the tight end, who had 17 catches against USC, Warren wasn't a factor, bud, like he wasn't.

And just as impressive to me is like how quickly he was just firing the lane versus the run and how effective he is in support, how good his angles are. When he gets there, how effective he is as a tackler and kind of filling in the gaps. So that was the first thing that jumped up. Because we're so, we are so focused, hyper-focused on the prospects. Ty Leak Williams' defensive tackle along with Ty Hamilton, Igbeno-Igbenosin at cornerback, number one, then opposite side 10, Denzel Burke, the two defensive ends,

TJ and Jack Sawyer. So sometimes when you know that number two is not a prospect, you just kind of like look past him. But sometimes guys are just impossible to look past. So my takeaway, and it's a, you know, Malachi Stark's great player, Georgia, he's going to probably be the first safety off the board, some other good safeties in this class. But 2026 is when like the guy, safety comes out.

So that was my first takeaway. I want to know what jumped out to you. Well, yeah, I mean, he's, I think he's the best player every time he steps on the field. I don't know. I don't know who, I just don't know who's going to be better when he's on the field. And really quickly, just also the versatility. I mean, he's not just good. at one thing or great at one thing, he can do literally everything.

You want to play him in the box. You want to spot a quarterback. You want to play him deep. Or match him up against the tight end. Whatever you want to do. And that makes him that much more of a nightmare for offense coordinators. But to get into the prospects a little bit, a lot of it was, you know, it's we've already talked about this a lot.

And the standard is the standard at Ohio State, right? So let's keep this in perspective because I think some people might watch this and be like, yeah, I mentioned Ohio State's still pretty good this year. And look at the numbers and the stats. I get it. But the standard is the standard, and this is not the same kind of talent that we've seen in Ohio saying the past in my opinion. And still, I say that and the depth is good.

I think nine players in that defense could get drafted. I think could get drafted. Will they all get drafted? I don't know. I think nine could get drafted. Who's your lock for a first round pick other than downs who's not coming out? You have a lock as a first round pick right now? I don't have a lock.

I mean, let's just do this. So we'll jump ahead and then work our way back. I don't have a lock. And we can throw up a graphic and talk about this. It's too early in the process. We're not going to give out grades. You and I compared some notes. I think we're very similar.

Like you have your rankings. I have my rankings right now. We'll have long conversations about why that is. We'll have long conversations about our disagreements. But at the end of the day, I want your opinion. I have my opinion. And then when we're working together, we're we're forming, you know, we're taking those opinions and we're stacking our board.

So here's what I think we can agree on, ballpark-wise. And at this point in the year, for me, it's not about, I always talk about landing planes. Okay. That's, you know, and I hear like different people who say, I want to get them in the neighborhood. I want to get them in the zip code, then the neighborhood, then like the exact street. However you want to view it, I view it as air traffic control when we're in early November. Right. You got a at 6 a.m.

You've got planes. If you ever look on like the flight track app, you got thousands of planes flying from all over the country, right? And it's like, how the hell are they going to land all these planes, right? And so we're kind of in that process. Like the flights took off at 6 a.m. It's now like 8 a.m. They're kind of starting ahead towards their destination.

I want to start getting them headed all in the right spot and figure out, okay, which ones are going to land first, which is the group that's going to be the second group of land and then someone and so forth. So for me, not giving grades, but if we tier them a little bit, who are the planes that are going to land first? The planes that are going to land first, to me, are Tyleek Williams defensive tackle and Davis and Igbenoson, the cornerback. Those would be the top two.

Then I think a secondary tier, if you will, would be JT, the defensive end. And I've got his pronunciation here. I'm not going to butcher it now so everyone can run with it, but I will get it right. I always do. I usually like Kiper gets the runs stations in August. I get them by like November December. JT, the Edge, 44 and 33, Jack Sawyer.

Those to me are like the second tier. Okay? And when I say second tier, we're talking to day two. Tier three for me would be Denzel Burke, the other corner, number one. Ty Hamilton, defensive tackle, Lathen Ransom, safety. And then tier three, tier four is kind of Cody Simon, the linebacker who I think it's significantly better. I don't want to say like a huge difference. Yeah. I think I think he's a really good player. I don't think he's special elite. I think he's a damn good football player. Yeah, I think he's going to play a while in the

league, like covering kicks, backup linebacker, maybe works his way into a starting role. And then Sonny Stiles is like more of a fringe guy to me, the other the other linebacker. So for me, that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, yeah, nine guys that could get drafted. I'm not convinced that Stiles will, but nine guys that have a chance to get drafted. Right. I'm right there with you. The groupings are the same. So we're off to a good start, I guess.

I will say really quickly because I don't think we're spent a lot of time on him is Stiles is intriguing to me as that late round prior to free agent guy because he's a former safety. He's six four. He's two 35. So you think former safety, you're, you're not. picking great size potential. I think he he's a guy that maybe hangs around, makes a practice squad, and works himself onto an active roster. There's some things that he does on film that I really like.

I think he's still adjusting to the position, playing closer to the line of scrimmage more often now. But I think he's an interesting guy to keep an eye on if your team drafts late or signs as a free agent. But where do you want to go from here? You want to talk about it? No, I want to go like, if there are two or three guys, in your opinion from what you saw that are, that are either playing above what we expected, starting to play like we expected, or are just not, you know, they are who they are. So give me a couple guys that stood out

and what stood out about them. I loved the defensive tackle, Tiley Williams coming into the year. And I gave him, I know we're not talking grades. I thought he had a potential to be a first round pick. Maybe he still does. Now when I look at it, just to put in a little perspective, you look at the tackles that went at the top of the second round last year.

And please don't make me pronounce the Clemson defensive tackle. Can you do that one? The Clemson defensive tackle? Rook. Roro. Yeah. A row, ro, row. Yeah.

And then you got Johnny Newton, Devondre Sweat, Braden Fisk. I thought those guys were dudes last year. I thought they all had chances going. And they end up going second round. So I get a little concerned about maybe talking about him as a first round pick. But he is a guy that's,

I think you look at it. The first thing is power, right? He's a run stuffer. And that's great. But can he get to the quarterback? And he's not overly explosive. or, you know, great change of direction, but he is good with his hands.

And he can move out. He may never be a high, you know, sack producer or a high sack volume, but he can affect the quarterback. Yeah, no, I agree. And I see him miss some tackles. I get there, disrupt, not finish. Full tight.

Fall off tackles. Little, yeah, a little tight changing direction. So, and to be honest, those names, those names you just said, like I had fisc rated higher than some of the guys that went ahead of him. I was surprised. Yeah.

But like Fisk was a better baller last year than what I'm seeing from Tiley. But he's in that neighborhood. Right. But it's also important for some context. And again, it's early. And some guys can have unbelievable workouts and all this. But like if you normally have like 17 to 22 true first round grades in a draft, I don't know that we have 15 this year where you're like slam dunk.

Siked about it. Right. And it is what it is. also think it's an incredibly deep class and especially like in certain positions like running back we've talked about like there's a lot of talent but i don't so so a second round grade last year may have been a first round grade this year you know and vice versa so so with all that said williams could go in the first round but his grade may be more equivalent to a second round grade what about ignores because you know denzel burke for a long time has been the guy that everyone

is expected to elevate and be and be the next great, you know, Ohio State corner. That Oregon tape was tough, man. Yeah, I thought. Double move, eyes in the back field. Which I didn't see last year. I thought my notes from last year was an instinctive guy. I thought he was really good scheme versatility. He was an off coverage.

He struggled in that game. Yeah. I was like, please just let him press. Just put him up because the more space he was in, the less effective he was in that game. He had a bad day. I wonder as the season progresses with Igbenosin and Burke, they played a lot of zone against Penn State.

Yeah. They played a lot of off. They played more press against Penn State than they did against Oregon, which surprised me because I know we talked last night. I want to get into that, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. But to me, like this, these corners are more physical press, get in your face. Right.

That's what I love about I, Yenon, yeah. Go ahead. He's going to make, he's going to make your life. nightmare getting off the line. He is so competitive and so tough. And he's a little lean right now. I think he gave a little bit bigger and stronger. Um, but he is a, a mauler at the line of scrimmage. He just makes it really tough. Now, you live and die with that a little bit. He will get flagged. He does get overly aggressive and overly physical. That's one of the concerns I have. I want to see him run. But when you look at the compete level, yeah, the compete level though,

and, uh, you know, not making it tougher guys get off the line. I think he, he's only has one pick, but I mean, we, we've talked about the past. I mean, it was unbelievable. I think he's going to be all right in terms of ball skills. So I just, again, the thing that kept jumping out to me was the toughness. He will fight off blocks, get involved in the run. I mean, he is, he is a tough, competitive player with good cover skills. I don't know if he's that elite shutdown guy.

And again, the physicality, you live with it, but it's also a little bit of a concern at times. Yeah. So, like, kind of to sum it up, here's what I saw. Here's what I've seen so far. And I do want to, like, I really want to preface this by saying, while it, it's not one of the elite groups that we've seen in the last decade, and I'll get into that in a second, it's a damn good college football defense. Right.

Find me, find me many, if any, other defenses this year that have nine guys that could get drafted and a safety like Caleb Downs, who's not eligible, who's going to be a first round pick. Right. And probably going to be a top 15. pick. So, so like, let's keep, let's keep perspective here. I don't need, we don't need the lunatic fringe from Ohio State, you know, getting after us. Like, that's not what we're here for. I'm here to put perspective on it. And so, like, it's a damn good defense. And it's a defense that's improving. I think that's the most important

thing. Like, we talked to Joel Clatt last week, and he was saying, like, talking to coaches, like, there's disappointment in individual performances. And they're having to blitz more and and take more chances because they're not getting some of the play out of the guys that they expected to get. Well, I started to see against Penn State they're starting to get play out of those certain guys that they were disappointed in earlier in the year. So, like, it's progressing the right way. I also think as a team, not just defensively, Ohio State, like, you've got to understand the pressure cooker that this organization, if you will, that this program is in.

It's different, man. And so, like, they had one huge game early in the year and they lose. it on the road in a brutal finish of that game, right? And then it's like all this lead up to Penn State and you're going to Happy Valley. And what if this is the year where we lose again to a top five opponent, but it's Penn State and we should always beat Penn State. We've been in like 14 or less 16 or whatever the numbers are. So I think I'm excited to see Ohio State from this point on.

Are they free? Do they start to play loose? Is that like monkey off their back to use an old cliche? You know what I mean? Because when you live in Columbus and you've got like everyone's talking about one thing, Ohio State football. And for a long time after Oregon, it was everyone's talking about one thing. They're not achieving at the level we expect. Yeah.

Best roster money could buy. So like I think I'm interested to see the psychology. If all of a sudden Ohio State is like, yeah, all right, we're here. That's more like what we expected to put on tape. We got that, we got past that huge hurdle. Now let's just go play ball. You look at the rest of the schedule, like Purdue, you know, I want to see him come out and just absolutely stomp Purdue at Northwestern.

In Indiana program, an Indiana program undefeated, playing great ball. But let's face it, like the gap and talent between those two, like that to me would be a statement game. Like, all right, Indiana. I'm excited for that game. Yeah. Yeah, like this is cute, but like we're Ohio State. And we're free now to go play our level ball. Right.

And then Michigan, if they can exercise that demon and get past that Michigan game, I lost, by the way, to Michigan this year. I don't want to see the fallout. No. From what we're seeing on tape, like this Ohio State team is getting better. So I'm excited to see what happens down the stretch. But now, let's go back. I think, and maybe it's just old news because everyone was talking about how great this defense was.

And I think it stems from early in the year where they were like, historically, this is one of the great all-time defenses. They're damn good, but they're not at the level of some of the defenses that we've seen. Like go back to 2015, the National Championship Alabama one, right? That 2016 NFL draft, the April right after, they had four second rounders, including Reggie Raglan, Aishon Robinson, Geron Reed, like that was a damn good defense. And I think most important is they also had a lot of young contributors on that defense. The 2017 draft was one of those guys finally came out. who were sophomores or juniors during the 2015 season, three first rounders, seven total

draft picks. So you had 11 guys that went on to get drafted the next two drafts from that defense, an entire starting defense, and seven of them were in the first two rounds. So, like, that's different than what we're talking about with a couple second rounders, maybe like third and fourth rounders. 2017 Alabama defense a few a couple years later after all those guys got drafted that's when I when I talk about reloading is the historically great ones the last decade at least the 2017 Alabama national championship team had in the 2018 draft three first rounders minka fitzpatrick to Ron Payne, Roshan Evans, and eight total starters were drafted from that defense, okay? Like that group was stacked.

2020, 2021, Georgia, arguably the best defense we've ever seen. That was, I mean, when you want to talk elite, this is what you're up against. They had nine defensive players drafted, almost the entire defense was drafted. And this is the difference. Ohio State may have nine, but it's going to be backloaded. Right. Georgia was front-loaded. five first rounders ready for this trade yeah travon i want you to listen

travon walker jordan davis quay walker devante wyatt and louis seen okay yeah and so five of those nine were first rounders and then by the way jeline carter was a backup he was rotating you know right he couldn't come out yet right couldn't come out yet So just that's the perspective. So I think I'm still like getting over the frustration of like watching game day and certain shows and big noon kick. And they're talking about this as a chance to be one of the great all-time defense. Like, they're damn good. But it's not a historically great defense.

And so it's got to be a little bit more balanced. And Ohio State has got to like I think they found their identity offensively. Okay. Right. I think it's running the football, letting Chip Cook is an office. offensive play caller in the run game, allowing Will Howard opportunities like he had with Brandon Tate and he missed that throwing through him out of bounds down the right, down the right rail. But hopefully next time that opportunity presents itself, puts that ball on him. Now you've

got a little bit more of a comfortable lead. You know, now it's a two touchdown way. But running the football, utilizing Will Howard's mobility, those are the things that, like, to me, are going to be the signatures moving forward with Ohio State. And that's the kind of balance. When you have an offense that complements the defense, now you've got a team. Right. And I think that they were trying to figure things out early in the season. And I think now they know the identity. We talked about in that Nebraska game, they were running the ball into a wall.

Right. But why did they do that? Because Chip was like, like, if we can't do it against Nebraska, we don't have a season anyway. So we're just like, if you're a fan of that team, I would say the one, you know, the one kind of negative or down. there as you look at those wide receivers and you're like, man, I just want to air it out. I just want to, I mean, let's get those guys the ball as much as possible. But if you're trying to win a national championship and you're, and you want to be the best

team you are, and this is your identity, those guys are going to make plays. They may not put up the numbers. They may not put up those big numbers that you might want to see, but watch out. They're critical points in that game. Chip's going to find a way to get that ball to those playmakers and watch out. And Chip's also, he's an efficient. smart card player at the poker table, right? Yep.

He's not going to go in there and just start slinging cards to sling cards. Right. You just got down to your third offensive tackle, left tackle the week before. And now you're plugging your left guard and it left tackle. First game, he started that position. Taking your center from a year ago has it started this year. He's never played guard, plugging him in a guard. So, like, we're not going to come out and start, you know, go and drop back and slinging the

all 30 times in this game. Like, that's just not, that's not what he's going to do. You've got to play to your strengths. So now that he's a little bit more confident in Donovan Jackson and, and believes that, you know, believes in him a little bit more. I think, I think we'll see a little bit more balance offensively. But that was absolutely protecting, feeling things out throughout the game and going with what we know we got.

Right. Now he's, you know, you talk about that Purdue game, he can go, sort of go, no offense to Purdue, but he can kind of like just go back in the lab and he's going to take notes about you know he'll try a few different things I think in that game and say this works well if this works now I feel good about it later on and if this isn't working against Purdue we probably aren't going to roll this out against Oregon he's got some he's got some matchups coming up where he can where that team can get a little more confidence and chip can have a little more confidence of what he wants to do let me take a quick second right I'm not I'm not a commercial guy

promo guy you know i'm not but i think it's important just to let everyone know we're fired like this is big week munch we got the college football rankings reveal you know that we've talked about tonight after the rankings reveal show munch and i are going to be back on we're going to do a you get done with the show and you're like who can i talk to like who am i called like just come come check us out well hopefully not drive you crazy but we're going to have some fun with that and figure out like it's the first time that we now get a glimpse into the committee's you know mindset right? And let's talk about that, have some fun. Like, is Alabama going to be in the top 12?

Where do they put Indiana? How high is BYU? You know, like? What do we like? What don't we like? Yeah. So, yeah, so we're going to have some fun with that. And then the other thing that we're excited about this week, Saturday night, like, perfect timing. We had to like kind of, you know, trudge through our first shows Saturday night, the reaction show. You know, we did it after the great Texas A&M, Texas A&M, LSU game two weeks ago. this past week. We did it after Ohio State, Penn State, and a couple other games. But this week, we're live on YouTube. You've got to check this out.

Right after Herbie and Fowler, get done with that LSU Alabama game, you got to come join us. We're going to break down that game, some of the other big games as well. But it's our first show that we're going to do live on Saturday night. We're excited about that moving forward. That's going to be it. When you're done watching that primetime game, come hang with us if you get some time and you want to kind of air things out mentally. and hear what our takes are, yell at us a little bit. Agree with us if you want, however it goes. I just wanted to promo those two things that we're really excited about this week.

All right. Let me go back and kind of put a bow on all this. And this is, I got done watching that tape. And when you told me that you were watching Ohio State, I went back and I wanted to make sure that I studied up on Ohio State versus Oregon and then Ohio State versus Penn State. But then I got, you know what happens, like a rabbit hole. Everyone can relate.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But on your phone, you go to look up one thing, like, why is the moon? Is it a harvest moon? And then you wind up like down, like looking at UFOs. Right. Right. No, I mean, it's absolutely true. So my rabbit hole last night, and I'm sitting there watching Monday night football,

and I'm tweeting about Caleb Downs and now I'm now I'm on to Oregon. And now all of a sudden it's like 1135. It's like, why don't you come up to bed and like, what just happened and all that stuff? But I got on Oregon, right? let me start with this, match. Okay. There are some other damn good teams out there. Like Texas, Texas needed the by week more than any program I can remember.

Like Quinn Ewers needed time to reset, get healthy. I expect to see a different Texas than we saw the one kind of limping through the last couple of outings, okay? Georgia, if they can figure out, shocking to say this in November, right? But Carson Beck, if he can cut down on the mistakes. and if Georgia can put out the tape that we saw, you know, even second half of Alabama, the Texas game. Like, Georgia can be up there in the elite class, but the inconsistency is a little maddening at this point. When I got done with Oregon last night, here's what popped in my head. And I'll share this with you.

It will not surprise me at all based off of where Ohio State is and the improvement that I'm seeing from them week after week, especially from Oregon to Penn State. And the way that Oregon has played from the jump. And remember we were all saying like, they don't look that good. They only beat Boise State by through. Well, Boise State is on a run, man. Boise State's a good team, man.

Boise State, when the college football rankings reveal comes out, could be in the top 10. Right. So having watched all of Oregon now and seeing both sides of the ball, but really studying that offense, I will not be surprised at all. if we see Oregon, Ohio State three times this year.

Interesting. I wouldn't be either. I think that we're agreeing so much. I'm seeing the exact same thing. Honestly, and we don't know how the rankings are going to be. We don't know what the matchups are going to be. And Texas and Georgia and maybe one or two other programs are capable of ruining this whole thing. But I truly think they're both talented enough.

I think Oregon's the most complete team in college football. And I did not think that after the first three weeks of the season. I looked at Ohio State, the Ohio State game, and I was like, oh, they're damn good. And I've watched them since. And I keep waiting for like, are they going to sputter a little bit? Are they not going to show up this week? Like, Illinois comes in. And Illinois is a good team.

They're not at the level, but Illinois is a good team. And they just like, they put out that fire in a matter of minutes. Like, yeah, no problem. Then they go to Michigan. We all know what Michigan is. I get it. But Michigan was up for that game. Michigan showed, like that was their last stand, if you will.

We'll see that effort one more time, and it will be against Ohio State. But Michigan threw its best punches and tried to hang around in that game. Right. But Oregon handled it the whole way through. To me, like, Oregon is the most complete team in college football. Ohio State, that performance against Penn State was just the jumping off point, in my opinion. They will keep getting better. It won't surprise me at all, whether it's a semifinal, I don't know where it will be.

whether it's in the national championship, who knows how the seedings are. Right. Oregon, Ohio State play again in the college football playoff after already playing a tight game in Oregon early in the season and then playing in the Big Ten championship,

which I think we all agree, we're headed towards that. And what an awesome thing that would be. We should be so lucky. Yeah. We should be so lucky to get that. Yeah. We're clearly two of the best teams

and clearly the best team so far in Oregon. They wind up playing at 13. And how great would it be if Ohio State knocks off Oregon? Oh, great. Now they're one and one in the series. And it's like, and we keep building towards that. And maybe it's a semi-final game. I don't know how it's going to lay out.

Maybe it's a semi-final game. And then the winner of that goes on to play like the best from the SEC. Like to me, that's that's football Nirvana. Right. You know? Yeah. I just. And the reason I'm saying this, Dylan Gabriel can play, dude.

It's unreal. He's got weapons. you keep talking about your guy you keep talking about your guy Will Stein and I'm just going to be up front about it. I don't know if you can talk about him enough. I mean, what he's doing? I'm watching the Ohio State offense

and how brilliant Chip Kelly has been, right? I'm watching that often. I'm watching Penn State and come on. They have really good game plan early on, but Ohio State adjusted. And then I'm, and then I put on the Oregon offensive tape and I'm like, oh shit, this is different.

Right. They're spreading you out. They're staggering receivers. You're making it tough to get a hand. hands on them and yeah. Sorry, go ahead. The progressions make sense. The run.

And Jordan James, most, we're talking, I saw Nagy had a tweet and I don't disagree. We've talked about a bunch. I don't, we don't steal Nagy's stuff. I just, he's our guy. Like, we love Jim, known him for 25 years. He said, been talking to NFL teams. I saw there's a tweet yesterday that NFL teams,

they're 25 to 30 running backs with actual NFL grades. I want to say this right now. Jordan James is. the most underrated running back in this class. My God, I love his run style. He's quick. He's got vision. He makes sharp cuts.

He's tough to bring down. He's not overpowering at all. But he runs. He's also no nonsense, though. He gets down. No nonsense. He's a chain mover. He puts you in good spots.

He never hurts you and he almost always helps you. You know what I mean? If nothing's there, he's going to get north-south and he's going to get exactly what he can. Really tough kid, really talented. The vision and patience jump out as much as the burst and competitiveness. Again, a guy you were on before me, which I hate,

but I have to give you your flowers. And dude, he gave Ohio State fits. Yeah. Pressing the line of scrimmage and the quick cutbacks. Like guys were swinging and missing. Guys were taking horrible angles. It was a tough tape to watch on Sunday, Sunday or Monday whenever they watch it,

if you're on state's defense. Because they look, there's a difference in like getting out of position. They look, it was like embarrassing the time. because of his ability to sense a cutback lane to make that one sharp cut and go. He is- He's-safting their knees were buckling. Yeah, it's like ransom.

I didn't want to bring his name up, but you're saying, yeah, we're talking about the same point. Number eight, number eight, check him for injury, bring him out, like, how's his ankle? You know, like, it was wild to watch. And then the receivers. Right. You know, the receivers, like, you know,

we talk about, we talk about Ted Johnson, and I saw the report coming out. Yeah, well, soon. Yeah, so he's going to be back to shoulder injury. But in his absence, we got guys stepping up. And I've talked about they've got four legitimate receivers. But the two biggest takeaways, we just talk about James at running back. The other one is if Dylan Gabriel isn't 5-11, are we talking about him as a higher draft prospect?

I think without question, without question. And I'm not, like coming in this year, I'm not a Gabriel guy. I just, you know, up and down, inconsistent, like, hero ball at times. But, like, Will Stein, the offensive coordinator has done such a brilliant job. He did a brilliant job with Bo Necks. And you saw Bo Necks progress. And now he gets with another coach in the NFL. And you're seeing the progression outside of this Sunday when they only put up 10 against 41 in Baltimore.

But with Sean Payton kind of picking up, it's like, all right, I've nursed this thing back to health, right? And now I'm going to pass it over to you. He's ready to go, you know, take it, like, let him fly, right? That's the best way I can put it. Set him free. Yeah, like he came like he was, he was an injured bird when he came out to Oregon. He was an injured duck. He was an injured duck coming from Auburn.

And so Will like, you know, he nursed him back to health. He petted them and loved him and gave him like sunshine and food and, you know, taped up his bruises and got him to this level. and all of a sudden, now Sean Payton's like, okay, now, now we're going to go fly. And Gabriel wasn't as wounded. Right. As, as Bo Nix was. He wasn't. And Gabriel beat Texas at Oklahoma last year.

I mean, he, but Gabriel had flaws, man. He had, like, no doubt. Mistakes. Too aggressive at time. Didn't know when to, like, to channel it versus reel it back. And now I'm watching this guy, the confidence, man. Like, he's so decisive. Like, it's like watching Drew Brees and the college level.

from the left side, you know, that Southpaw just like quick decisions, knows where he wants to go with the ball, like moving around, creating accuracy. Yeah, like he's a, he's a damn good college quarterback. And I, and like, I don't know, 511, 2, 10, 215. It's, it's not necessarily about size that you have to be elite and special. I'm not saying he's going to be a starter in the NFL, but like for the first time ever watching his tape, I think Dylan Gabriel's got a shot to to hang around in the NFL as a backup for a little while and see what happens, you know? And I didn't, I didn't think that. I just, I am so impressed with this Oregon team.

Right. I mean, I agree with everything you're saying. I do think, I will say that the TES injury I'm worried about. I, you know, let's, we'll see how that all plays out. I don't want to speculate because as talented as they are, he's the best. He is, you know, Evan Stewart came over Texas N&M, talented kid. The Alabama transfer, Holden, had a really big game. I just think that Tess is their best weapon.

So ideally, you want to see him stick around. I mean, you want to see him get back in the lineup. Sorry, not stick around. You see him get back healthy and 100% in playing at the level he's been playing all year. I mean, Holden has 28 catches. And when he was asked to step up this last week, I mean, it would. I hear you. I hear you.

He brings a little something different. Like those other guys aren't the biggest receivers. Yeah, Holden is. by far they're they're big holding six three two oh five you know and to watch him you know he's what was it four for 78 in the second week boise state he had five yeah yeah against uh against uh against ucla but when they needed him to step up this past week with tess out six for there he was 49 six and again it's been you know he's been playing well and he's been you know he's been flashing and gabriel's like you know what i'll go off thrown six times for a hundred

49 yards. I'll find the open guy. To Gabriel and to Will Stein, right? Again, yeah. Because I'm not saying the system's getting him open. I'm taking nothing away from Holden. I'm taking nothing away from Justice Lowe, number 14. They've stepped up, you know, and, and Lowe, like, low had two catches for 51 against Illinois.

He's kind of his breakout game. Also, I think carried the ball on like a reverse or something. And then this past week, Michigan had six, another six catches. So, like, there's talent there. depth you love that and you need that for a stretch run and we're seeing it right now when you're right top guy goes down to still have three dudes and to still have two um to uh herbert and the the tight ends like um cedique to have those and then have a running game with the balance and it's not just james but it is james you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah i am a believer in oregon i mean i guess

that's my biggest takeaway i think ohio state is is now progressing and is ready to take off like a rocket ship. I think Oregon's there already. And I would love to see a semi-final game with Oregon, Ohio State to see, all right, we're going to settle the things in the north and the west. And now let's go in the national championship game. Let's get the north and the west versus the south, you know, whether it's Georgia or Texas or whoever it turns out to be.

That to me would be the dream scenario. Yeah, I think, listen, I'll go on. right now on November 5th. This is where I'm at right now. I got Ohio State winning that game in the Big Ten championship. I think they, and this is why. Okay.

I think we've already mentioned it. Ohio State hasn't played their best game yet. I think Oregon is playing at such an elite level that we're seeing the best of Oregon right now. Ohio State, we still haven't seen the best of, and I got to believe for that game that Ryan Day gets them there. That Chip Kelly is ready for that game,

that they have enough on defense, They do some things a little bit differently. They learn from the, they have tape now. They know what they did last time. They know what works. They know what doesn't work. I think it's going to be close. I'm not saying that Ohio State's going to go in there and handle Oregon.

That would be crazy. But I think Ohio's take. I have them winning that game right now. All right. We got a lot of exciting stuff coming up, man. Like tonight I'm fired up. I ready to go there, huh? No, I was actually letting you finish.

And be the last word. Are you uncomfortable with that? No, I'm good with that. I just not used to it. So that had me. That's fair. That part's fair. Tonight, rankings reveal show, so fired up.

Like, I thank you to everyone, by the way, too. Like, I'm used to ESPN, like, 17 years. My comment box is just a disaster. I'm a horrible human being. I don't know how to evaluate. I suck. Kuyper's better. People in this, like, in this world, like, maybe it's the ringer.

It can't be Ricillo. Like, he's a miserable son of a, you know. But people like, I've been very appreciative of the support that we've gotten early on. We're going to keep chipping away at this thing and keep trying new thing. Thursday, man, I'm excited for this. We heard everyone's talking about Cam Ward, Chodor Sanders, okay? Number one, number two quarterback. Nussmeyer from LSU.

Does he stay? Does he go? All that. But then we talked to Nagy last week. And it's like, Cam Ward was a fifth, sixth round. I don't like, I think, yeah, he's the fastest rising prospect in the draft, but first round's too rich for a lot of guys I'm talking to in the league. Is there something behind that?

Is there some, you know, does he have some motivation in that comment? So I don't we know. So I took, I've taken upon myself, I've reached out to some GMs. I've reached out to a couple area scouts I know that have covered him that, no. I've also, I've dug into the tape, most importantly. That's, I'm going through every one of Cam Ward's throws. And I will finish that up by Thursday. we're going to have a big discussion about Cam Ward on Thursday.

We're going to have a big discussion about LSU and Alabama, a huge game. Alabama doesn't win that. Their season's ruined and they're not getting into the playoffs. So so much on the line in that game. We'll get to, that's my guy. We'll get to where the scouts are going to be, all that stuff on Thursday. And then again, Saturday night, we couldn't be more excited. Please join us after the primetime game of Alabama LSU in Baton Rouge.

if you're in your car after, if you're just sitting on your couch and you want to want, pop us on YouTube. We're going to go live right after that primetime game. We're going to break down LSU, Alabama, and I'm sure a couple other games that were critical. So again, thanks for joining us. If you get a chance, tell your friends, subscribe, like, all the things you need to do. You can find us on Spotify. You can find us anywhere that you get, that you download your podcasts.

And also every week, we've got clips and full shows on YouTube. So thanks again. I speak for mens here, even though I tried to give them the last word. We appreciate all of you for listening to watch. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com.

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