The McShay Show - Combine Coverage Day One: Intel and Evaluating Who Is Primed to Shine in Indy. Plus, Patriots EVP Eliot Wolf.

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Welcome to The McShay Show! Todd and Muench are live from the NFL combine in Indianapolis to share their latest intel and the top five prospects who are primed to boost their draft stock. Plus, Patriots EVP Eliot Wolf sits down for the latest segment of the Decision-Makers series to discuss his journey as an NFL executive, his favorite parts of the job, drafting Drake Maye, and what's next for Will Campbell. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:00 NFL combine coverage: Day one4:40 Which prospects are primed to shine in Indy?40:25 Patriots EVP of player personnel Eliot Wolf joins the show42:40 Eliot's grading scale for prospects44:12 Self-scouting Will Campbell's development46:50 Eliot's journey to becoming an NFL executive52:40 Drafting Drake Maye56:40 Managing long-term draft capital Learn more and join the waitlist at ScoutMotors.com. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit ⁠www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer, Jake Loskutoff, and Nik StanjevichSocial: Abou Kamara Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're looking live at the McShea Show from Indianapolis, Indiana, the home of the NFL scouting combine. We've got up-to-date news for you, players that we think are going to have their draft stock soar from what they do on the field later this week. And we sat down with Elliot Wolfe, the executive vice president of player personnel for the New England Patriots, talked to him about his Super Bowl run, and kind of his background on what got him to where he is today. And news for you, 59 days until the NFL draft. Mitch, you good? Couldn't be better. Tucker roll that beat for me, please. One that was worried, myself included, about mention making it here to Indianapolis, not traveling with Morrison.

He did it. And that's the first breaking news we have for you. Excited to be here. We're going to be here all week. We've got seven days of shows. We're going to recap it all on Monday when we get back next week. But today is Monday, the first day at the Combine. You see the beautiful streets of Indianapolis.

Construction going on. the McAfee Show. I'm sure they've talked a lot about how the streets are messed up. All I know is we got a little snow here today, but we didn't get 32 inches like Providence. We didn't get 28 inches like Cohasset, Massachusetts. Wow. Lord only knows what they got up in Derry, New Hampshire.

You haven't even checked in. I'm sure Iris will. Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. They're being revamped for what comes next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four-wheel drive.

So look ahead. Join the wait list at scout motors.com, just like I just did. Concept vehicles, not available for sale, features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scout motors.com for details. Let's just get right to it. We've got Elliot Wolf in the back end. Great interview. We literally just finished it up. We're going to play it for you. Tucker's in the back right now making sure everything's set to go at the end of this show. We sat down with him. He was kind enough to come over to our hotel and had a great talk with him about, you know, son of Ron Wolf, 10 years old watching film with his dad inside the, inside of Lambo Field. What kind of got him to where he is today? How did he and Vrable wind up meshing? I thought that was interesting. Some of the highlights of the job, his least favorite, parts of the job, what his spread is, good New England spread for draft weekend. So we got all that to share today. Let's just dive right into it, though. This week is about players getting the

opportunity to showcase their athleticism, their explosiveness, their speed, their size, all those sorts of things. Some players are going to choose not to do that. But there are some big name players that already have announced, and this is kind of the, I don't call it breaking news, I'm not breaking yet, but it's been reported this morning, that three players that we were hoping would work out, are going to work out. Jeremiah Love, top prospect on a lot of teams boards, carrying one of the highest grades, number one prospect on my board right now, although I have between now and April to fix that, because I don't know if I can finish a draft with a running back is my number one overall prospect. But Jeremiah Love, star back out of Notre Dame, is going to run the 40 and do all the

position drills. Arvel Reese, considered by many teams, is the number two or number one prospect on their boards. He's going to work out. And fellow linebacker at Ohio State, Sonny Stiles, and I'll get to him in a little bit, is also expected to work out. So three big-name players, Munch, as we come into the era of players not wanting to work out in some All-Star games, not wanting to come here and perform at the Combine, and that's their right. But it's exciting to hear that some big-name players are going to be working out. Now, I do want to say this in advance.

Like, these are players we expect will work out, and we think are going to really help their draft value here. It doesn't mean that they're they, you know, we've heard a million stories in the past how players have gone in and said, yeah, I'm going to work out and don't feel right that morning or they talk to their agent and they get talked out of it, whatever it is. These are guys that we think that are going to have really big weeks here in Indianapolis and I'll let you kick it off with one player that you want to start with. One of the hottest names I think coming into this week is Georgia offensive tackle and Monroe feeling and for good reason. Look, I've told everyone on this show all year that no one moves like Utah offensive.

tackle, Spancer Fenno. I did not lie to you, but I misspoke. When I watched feelings Freelings tape recently, this dude explosive, easy mover, rangy, side to side, all the stuff that you're looking for in an offensive tackle. He's going to have 34 plus inch arms, could be 35 inch arms. I fully expect him to put on a show here. He's already in the first round conversation. I think he could climb after what he does here, excited to see what Monroe feeling does. And this tackle class is interesting. It's shaping up, right? Yeah.

One of the interesting things about him is he's a left tackle. It feels like it's the year of the right tackle. All of these talented right tackles in this top group. Monroe Freeling started at left tackle for Georgia. We've spent months now talking about this tackle class and the two names that you hear most, if you tune into this show or if you've tuned into any other show, is Spencer Fano, who you just talked about from Utah.

Yep. and Francis Maui Noah from Miami. When I talk to coaches in the league and scouts in the league and general managers in the league, I'm not saying that they have them as the top two guys, but I promise you they're all asking me about what are you hearing on Freeling? Yeah. And what are you hearing on Blake Miller? You're a guy.

We don't have to have that conversation today. But I've got pages of notes. And I'm writing out stuff and having conversations or type of stuff up. and almost always those two names come up. So I think that's interesting, and I think the fact that we both have watched his tape now, and yeah, he gets off balance. And yes, he lunges.

And there are some, if you want to put together a hit list, like a clip real of his low lights, you got a beautiful one to try to convince your general manager, why not to draft him. But then you put his highlights on it, and the way he moves and the length. And the inexperience isn't ideal, but there's also this element of, man, if he works out the way we're hearing he might work out.

At his, what is he, 6-7? 6-7-3-15 is what he's listed at. So he'll probably come in at like 6-6 and 3-quarters. Great. 3-15 range. And if he works out well, combined with the flashes on, or not flashes, the upside you see on tape, that's going to be fascinating to watch. Because I'm telling you, there are people in the league that view he and Miller up there near the top with Maui Noah

Infano, okay? So... I get it with Freeling. Fine. Sunny Stiles. That's the player, I think, is going to be... Last year is Nick Emanwari, who was your guy. And he took the combine by storm, tall, long, like the fastest... He had the best combination of size, 40-time and vertical jump in maybe in two decades,

was it? Or maybe ever... I think it was ever. record for those three things. I'm not saying we're going to have a record broken, but I'm not saying we're not with Sunny Stiles. I think he's going to be the talk of the combine when we leave. When you look at his skill set and everyone talks about R.Vell Reese and I get it because there's the edge element to his game. Some people in the league that now I'm like having more advanced conversations, some people think this guy can rush the quarterback pretty well too,

not saying to Reese's level. So there's I agree. So we're not talking with, With Reese especially and with Sunny Stiles, it's not just limited to he's an off-the-ball linebacker. He's a Devin Lloyd, right? They're not built like those guys either. They're like six-four. Well, that's my point on Sonny. He's six-four and a half is what is what people think he's going to check in at. 243 pounds.

I went through. I've spent years in talking to analytics people and trying to drill down. And we've got some exciting news to break right after the combine. there may be a website that comes out that we may have like every bit of data and we may develop it over the next two years to be essentially an NFL database where you can get everything in and I'm going to get mention involved somehow and he'll scream at me about all of this but my point is I've spent all this time trying to pick the brains of the analytical people in the league what are the measurables that matter right I'm constantly updating that list and with linebacker you want to hear the four that we've we've come up with. If you look at what correlates in these? And obviously, if you're evaluating players off of these numbers, you're not doing the right job,

but as a supplement to the tape. You can't ignore it. You can't ignore it. We'll talk to Elliot Wolf about how he went from the Green Bay Packers where they were admittedly kind of behind on all the analytics. And then he went to Cleveland where like maybe too much analytical-driven evaluations. And he's found like a sweet spot, right? So with all that said, vertical jump, broad jump, bench press, weirdly enough, has some correlation, and the weight of a player.

So at 243 pounds, and I'm looking back, he at Ohio State apparently has had like an 11-foot broad jump. Yeah, 11-foot broad jump, which is absurd. Yes. Absurd. That's that lower body explosiveness. That's what you're talking about right there. A 40-inch vertical jump. I'm not saying he's going to reach these here at the combine.

but that's what it's been stated before. He's like 10% body fat. His miles per hour on the GPS. Meanwhile, this is from the freaks list from our good friend Bruce Feldman. At the athletic, yeah. They weren't far off. His most recent one was 22.8 miles per hour.

That was from last year. And Jeremiah Smith was 23.5. Or no, he was saying, yeah, 23.2. Anyway, bottom line, between the 40, the vertical jump, the broad jump, and all those things, and checking in at 243 pounds if he's in that range, which we assume he will be. He's got a chance to be one of the stories here at the combat. And again, if you have a few minutes to kill, go YouTube as high school basketball highlights. It's those poor kids.

I can't imagine. I haven't tried to match up with that guy in high school. And Sonny Stiles, like, when you add the rush element to it in a year where I think teams are really just looking for the best players. and if you're not targeting Mendoza at 1, if you're the Raiders, if you're not targeting an offensive tackle for obvious need, I think teams are much more open in this draft in the top 10 to draft a quote-unquote off-ball linebacker. This week could help pull vault Sunny Stiles into that range.

Yeah. Who do you got next? I'm going to go with another off-the-ball linebacker with a similar kind of background or skill set. That's Jake Golda from Cincinnati. Look, according to PFFF, F, 320 snaps in the box last year, 251 in the slot, and then he had 122 on the edge.

This kid's 6-4-240. So we talked about that size, right? Now we're talking about the versatility, play defensive end earlier in his college career and in high school, nine and a half career sacks. When I look at that frame, 6-4-2-40, and immediately what I'm concerned about is how well does he move in space. Again, according to Feldman, he had a 4.24 second shuttle.

That is not elite, but that is very good for the position, and it's very good for the frame. And I like the way he moves in space on tape. Getting back to it a little bit. The added element of being able to rush the passer. This frame, these guys that are 6'4, they're not these 6-2-2-2-30-pound guys are just going to get swallowed up by offensive tackles.

Jake L'Dade is going to be able to play a little bit of a role in how he, in rushing the passer, and then dropping in a coverage. And we talk about all these defenses that are multiple and being able to hide what you want to do and confuse quarterbacks. If you see Jake Alde land up in the edge, you don't know whether he's dropping, whether he's coming. I think he's not going to...

Listen, it's hard to follow up Sunny Stiles here as an off-the-ball linebacker. I don't think he's going to test like that, but I do think he's going to run well at that size, and I think he's going to look really good during position drills. I'm hopeful that he'll go through some of the pass-rest drills at the end of the linebacker workouts, too. I get another guy sticking on the defensive side, right? And this interior defensive line group is not ideal at the top, right?

I think Lee Hunter from Texas Tech made a lot of headway with his senior bowl performance and the end of the season. And you talked to scouts, like the way he finished that season was hugely helpful to his stock, if you will. Caden McDonald's a player we both like a lot from Ohio State. He's more of a run stuffer with some upside. The most intriguing player into interior defensive line. defensive tackle, if you will, is Peter Woods. Yes.

We sat there in July and both watched the tape, and I think the argument was, I was top five, you were top ten. Right? But we're very comfortable we could have easily agreed on he's a top 15 prospect, could go in the top ten. It doesn't have the year that he be expected to have production-wise. Neither did T.J. Parker, The Edge, or anyone on Clemson, on offensive, a defensive side of the ball, period.

I watched the tape recently of both he and Parker, and there's still a lot of great things. There's a lot of, like, there's a lot of movement in different things they were trying to do this year, and I think they almost worked to their own disadvantage at times, okay? But bottom line, Peter Woods, I think if you polled NFL teams, some would have Hunter, number one interior defensive linemen. I don't think anyone would have Caleb Banks from Florida, but I think he's a, another guy who with a good workout this week could kind of escalate. I think Caden McDonald would be there.

Those would be your four guys, but I don't know how many right at this moment would have Peter Woods as the number one interior defensive line. And if they did, it wouldn't be in the top 20 picks. So we're talking about a guy who's right now, if you pulled everyone in the league, I would guess it would be 25 to 35 is where you would land the range for him. Watch what happens after this week.

You've seen this movie before? I've seen this movie before. This is a guy, and you want to talk about measurable that matter. For interior defensive linemen, 40, bench press, 20 shuttle, and weight. Ironically, the weight thing is going to be one that drags him down a little bit. Right. If you go look at, I just saw recently a picture of him in 2024 versus 2025. He leaned up, which is a good thing.

It means he's disciplined. He's doing nutrition. He's conditioning. He's working. but I'd like to see him at or maybe just slightly over 300. I don't know that he'll be. I don't know. We'll see.

If he's over 300 and he runs the 40 that I think he's going to run because he ran a 486 apparently last off season. If he runs in that 49 range at over 300 pounds, I'm told he has a vertical jump of 33 inches, which is outstanding. 34 reps on the bench press. We'll see if he does it here. But 32 is the mark for outstanding. And 32 and over is exceptional.

You combine all those things in a class that doesn't have a clear-cut, number one interior defensive lineman. And you go back to that tape, and then you watch 2024 and 2025. You put it in perspective. I'm telling you, when we exit this thing, two, three weeks after, there's a real good chance Peter Wood starts to climb.

back up. I hear you. I agree with you. I think he's going to put on an absolute show. And I think it's anticipated. It's kind of surprising that we haven't looked at it that way all along because what had happened with T.J. Parker at the Senior Bowl is he, what we've been talking about this? What was going on at Clemson? You know what I mean? These great players just were not playing that well. You get T.J. Parker away from the situation. Maybe the scheme wasn't right for what they were doing. He excels at the Senior Bowl. And now Peter Woods has a chance to do the same thing at the Combine. I'm going to go to another guy.

I'm going to go to Oregon safety Dylan Thineman. Yep. Who we think we've talked about, what I want to talk about him is positional, like what his versatility is, okay? Because some people think he's going to be a great nickel. He played almost primarily in the box for Oregon. But I want you to go back to when he was a freshman at Purdue.

And yes, I went back and watched 2023 tape on Dylan Thineman. And he's playing safety. He's playing high, single high safety, okay? This kid could run in the four threes. He's a 200, 205 pound safety. He could run in the four threes. Fresno State, one of the first games of the year,

this kid's playing single high free safety. The way he tracks, closes, and finishes on this interception is insane to me. I mean, the way he's able to cover that much ground because of his instincts and because of his speed, and then the way he plays the ball. He's going to have a monster workout. He's going to run really well. Don't bury the lead here. I mentioned Sonny Stiles is going to steal the show.

Yeah. It may be another safety this year in Thineman. Yeah. I'm told it, yeah, 205, he could run like low 40s. He could have like a 43 inch vertical. Yes. He is going to do things this week that, again, no one's doing what Nick Emanwere did last year. But he's going to do things to kind of remind you when we're like viral moments.

What the hell just have? Do we? Whoa. Right. So if you're just a tape junkie, though, and you're watching his tape, you might say to yourself, this guy's a box safety. You're going to see how he runs here. And then if you go back and look a little bit early,

in his career and you're going to say, this dude can literally do anything in safety, which is exactly what I said about Nick Eamon Worry, who I know played a lot of box stuff for Seattle, and everyone said he was. But still, he's got that kind of talent, that kind of skill set. Again, I expect him to run really well. And then I expect when you watch him on the field and they give him a chance to track and catch the ball, he's going to shine during those drills. I'm going to flip over to the offensive side. Denzel Boston, a player we've talked about a lot on this show. Scouts are. really, and GMs and evaluators are really all over the board on him.

What everyone agrees on is how great he is, contested catches. He's a power forward. He's physical. Like the head top stuff, guys hanging from him, red zone, he's outstanding. Everyone agrees on that, okay? What I see in my only weakness in his game, the only area where I have, I stutter a little bit and where I start to like wonder is I don't love the separation in and out of breaks, okay?

But then I asked myself this question. I've asked myself this question with a lot of bigger receivers. Do they even need that? Because late separation is equal to or greater than foot separation in and out of your breaks when you're that big. So he's going to check in between 6.3 and 6.4, 210 pound range, okay? Here's what I'm told. Don't be surprised if Denzel Boston runs at 4.4. five. Fuck the four five two that everyone's saying. And if that's the case, now you've got a guy who

can challenge vertically. Like I see it on tape, but I'm wondering, is it just the college corner? It's like if he runs in the four fours, man, at six three and three quarters, two hundred and twelve pounds with his resume and his tape, he's not leapfrogging. I don't think the top three guys. And whatever order you want them, I'll go Carnell Tate, Mackay Lemon, and Jordan Tyson from Ohio State, USC, and Arizona State, respectively, okay? But I think it locks in for Denzel Boston. He runs in those four-fours and has the workout I'm told he's going to have. I think it locks in he's the fourth wide receiver, and I think it also locks in top 25 and maybe elevates him in the top 20 this year. You already know how I feel. I think he could leap

frog some of those guys. I really do. And I think if you look at Tedaro and McMillan last year in Carolina getting that big bodied guy who can make plays downfield, I just, I look at that frame. I think he separates a little bit better than you. I understand what you're saying. You're not going to be that size in separate like a guy who's built more like a... Well, when I watch Malachi, when I watch Malachi Fields is a similar size, I see him separating a little bit better on some of the stuff. Chris Brasel. We're at a different page there. That's interesting. It was leaner. I just see more lateral stuff from fields and like the tempoing of routes. But I see it with Brazel from Tennessee.

Chris Brazzle the second, I really see it, but he's also 200 pounds. Right. So, yeah. Yeah, you know how I feel. I love the player. I'm going to go with my next guy is going to be Iowa Center, Logan Jones. And he's going to be around 300 pounds. He's going to be around 6'2.

Smaller guy. He's going to have short arms. So why am I high on him? Why do I think he could really shine this week? Let's talk about lower body explosiveness. This is, again, from Feldman's Freaks list. This dude has a 36.5 inch vertical at 300 pounds. He has a 705 pound squat, and his 10-yard split is good for a receiver.

It's 153. He could put on 153 for a center. And again, how does this translate the tape? He's very quick. He's a great zone blocker. That's a surprise. no one coming out of Iowa. And the other thing I like about him is, yeah, he's shorter and he's smaller, but that

that height kind of helps him because he's got a low center of gravity he can get into guys. We're talking about a four-year starter. It's an interesting center class because I don't think anyone's really separated themselves and there's not a guy that's like, I don't think there's a first-round center in this group. I think people are going to look at Logan Jones and think themselves they got a potential starter there who can overcome some of those size deficiencies because of, I mean, how crazy of an athlete he is. Just put it in perspective, we're talking

about Felman's Freaks list. This guy, a center from Iowa, seventh on that list. Seventh on that list of 101 players that he did in college football. Yeah. Yeah. I'm intrigued to see that.

Yeah. Interior guys that can jump like that, the lower body explosion. We saw Greg Zabel last year. Right. What was a 36 and a half inch vertical jump? You know? obviously interior offensive linemen,

but like there's something to that. All right, I'm sticking on the offensive side for myself. Eli Stowers, the tight end, I'm really intrigued by this guy from Vanderbilt.

I like his tape a lot. I think a lot of it is based on feel, instincts, understanding, smart player. We talked to our guy, Scott Goldman from AIQ. Yeah. On the short list of guys he wanted to share his profile with intelligence and some of the things that, like spatial awareness.

But then I start to look at like the athletic traits. He's not the biggest cat, right? He's six. I'm guessing he checks in between 6.3 and 6.4, like 603, 6.3 and 3 quarter, something like that. 2.35. So undersized. But if he works out the way he's supposed to, I'm told he. has a 39-inch vertical.

I'm told that he was 21.43 miles per hour on the GPS, which is like, we saw at the Senior Bowl, that would have been the fastest player there, okay? 113 is what Feldman had in his piece about the broad jump, okay? And then I look at like 10, 3-cone vertical jump and hand span, by the way, the four measurables that matter at a tight end. So that 39-inch vertical is 37 is considered outstanding. If he gets over 37, that puts him in an elite class. Right.

If his miles per hour is true, that 10-yard split's going to be really good. And then the vertical jump, if his 11-3 broad, he's going to have a, no, I said the 30, yeah, the vertical and then the hand span. Who knows what that's going to. But I'm just starting to look at this class, and there's more tight ends than I can ever remember at a combat. 27 was the number? Yes. But what's intriguing is it's

Kenyon Sadiq in the first round and then there's like a whole bunch of guys. Who's going to elevate themselves? And that's why I'm putting Stowers on here because I think, well you're the tight end guy. Give me three or four other names that you want. Like Ohio State

Max Claire. That's from Ohio State. Joe Royer from Cincinnati. Royer, yep. I mean, Coziel from Houston's gotten a lot of late love after the senior bowl. Justin Jolly from North Carolina State. I like his tape, by the way.

I watched a little bit of this. Nice. Coming around. There we go. But I think Stowers can become the clear cut number two after this week. I guess that's my whole point. I could see it. I wonder if teams will value him a little bit differently based on the frame,

but what I really think is interesting there is, listen, you don't want to bring up Travis Kelsey when you're talking about other tight ends, but it did jump to my mind where you're talking about that spatial awareness. and the rumor has always been that Travis Kelsey doesn't run the route that he's supposed to run. He runs the routes where he knows he's going to get open, and he has that kind of relationship with Holmes. And understanding, when you can get on the same page, and you see this with Brady and Edelman obviously played a different position,

Welker, those are slot receivers, but also Gronk, they knew what they wanted to do against certain looks. And if you can get a player like that who can catch the ball like that and do some of the things after the catch, I like him after the catch, deuce hours, when you can get on that same page and you have the same kind of, we see everything similarly, that's, it's tough to defend. Because you're expecting as a defense, you're expecting,

you're anticipating certain route combinations to attack the look that you're giving them. You're trying to anticipate that. And when you have a guy that can outthink you and get to these areas, like I think Stowers can, especially hearing some of the AIQ stuff from Scott Goldman, that's fascinating. It's Sadeek Stowers and Claire are the top three tight ends in this class if you were to pull most NFL teams. I think what hasn't been determined, and May quite honestly, come down to like, what are you looking for?

Because Claire's a bigger body guy and has different traits than Stowers does. But I could, yeah, I think that Stowers has an opportunity this week. And honestly, Claire, even if it's not who tight end two versus tight end three, even if it's like, let's solidify a spot in the mid to late second round, because I think we're going to have a big gap between tight end one and tight end two. I think this is the opportunity for guys like Claire and Stowers to try to close that gap a little bit. Yeah, keeping on Roy or the other one name we didn't mention was Donald Bentley from Utah. It was a guy we talked about. Yeah, he's a good player.

I'm going to go with another tight end. I like to take swings, man. I like to take chances. And this is someone who's flown under the radar, I think. And that's Marlon Klein, the tight end from Michigan. And it's easy to see why. 38 catches for 364 yards and one touchdown in three years at Michigan. But you look at the quarterback play and you start to think, well, maybe that's part of the problem.

That offense hasn't really been since JJ McCart. he left and even when J.J. McCarthy was there, it was ground and pounds. So he didn't really get a chance to shine. Here's why I really like him. First of all, he's played in Germany until his junior year of high school. I think he's got a lot left to grow and learn. I think he's going to be a good player. Framed six foot, he's listed at six foot six, two hundred fifty pounds. I hope he's on the higher end of 250 pounds. I like to seem a little bit heavier than that. But one note, listen to this from from the Feldman list. Colston Lovelland ran a six nine four. three cone.

Okay. This kid ran a 6-8-9. And he ran a 4-25 short shuttle. I just told you that's number two on the tight end measurable that correlate. When I watch him on tape, man, he is a threat. He's already a threat down the scene, whether he releases in line or works out of the slot. This kid does a really good job of widening defenders and creating space over the middle. He does a good job of tracking the ball.

He can make big plays and take a hit. This is a guy that I just think is, if you look at the production, you might think, think to yourself, I don't know what they're seeing in this player, but when you start to watch the film and you start to put together with a skill set, he's going to be probably a mid-round guy, but I think he could be one of those gems that when you look back and you're like, how do we miss on that guy? I like that. Going against the grain a little.

Yeah, why not? My last player. That was five for you, right? Yep, that's five. Brendan Sisi, cornerback, South Carolina. Awesome quote from a personnel guy recently. And he explained it. Now, I'll explain it, too, because it sounds a little ruthless, but it's actually not.

We were talking about the corners, and we got to Cici, and he said, he's like, oh, from the neck down, he's the best cornerback in this class. And obviously, that raises the left. And he's like, it's not, like, I don't have a problem. Like, he's smart enough. He's going to get it. He's just raw, man. He was a starter for a year at NC State. Transferrs. South Carolina was a starter, but it came out as an underclassman, hasn't developed.

There's some focused stuff in coverage. Like, are his eyes in the right place? Is he dialed in on this play? And so if he can pull that all together, this guy's super talented. And I want to watch him this week because I'm up six foot 190. At cornerback, it's all about two things when you're talking about the measurables that matter coming out of here. And you can throw in some of the intelligence stuff because it's really important. You can throw in, you know, some of the change of direction and all that.

But the things that are going to get you drafted higher and typically translate to the NFL, for the cornerbacks, 40-yard dash and arm length, right? And so when you look at the arm length, right, you want 31 and 3 eighths inches is the last five-year average for cornerbacks. 33 inches is that line that you love to get. Anything over 33 inches, okay? Mine are not, I don't think. Tucker, get the tape measure already.

So I want to see, is this six-foot corner to 190 close to 33? three or above. And then the 40 is 454, believe it or not, is the five-year average. 4-40 or better is outstanding. I'm told he's going to run in the 4-3. It's probably mid-to-high, like 4-3-7, 4-38, have a longer, longer arm and longer wingspan and have a great overall workout. And I think now you start looking at this cornerback class, right? I think we're all locked in on two at the top. And it's Jermad McCoy, who's probably physically more talented, his 24 tape is pretty awesome coming out of Tennessee but didn't play this last year. It's a huge week for him, man.

And we're going to probably tomorrow, I think tomorrow probably we'll get to the players who have the most on the line, like the most at stake. And he'll probably be one of them because we want to see where he is health-wise and working out and all the numbers. But McCoy and Mansour Delane, who's super smart, sticking in coverage, like does all the things you look for at the position, but probably isn't going to run as well as McCoy or or Cici or some of these other guys. But after those two corners, I think it's a little bit of a race right now.

Tennessee's Colton Hood, Avin Terrell, right? And then Cici's in that mix. And he's in that mix. Yep. And it may come down to, are you playing like a Seattle-style defense? Are you looking for longer, you know, or are we looking for a slot? What are we looking for? But I think that this week is an opportunity for Brandon Cici to come in and really

get an edge on some of those other guys. Because he's longer, he's fast, he's explosive. And if you get the right defensive backs coach and you get the right room, I think he's got an opportunity maybe to have the most growth of all these cornerbacks in the NFL. I agree. It's exactly what I saw on tape. I thought there was times that he just wasn't comfortable with his back to the quarterback, but the talent is obvious.

Some other names I'm just going to throw out there. I know there's one more too. Caden Proctor is going to have a big week if he works out, the Alabama offensive tackle. Mike Washington, the running back from Arkansas. We saw him at the Senior Bowl. We've seen his tape. Really good player, but I've been told he's going to turn some heads this week. Kenyon Sadiq, who I mentioned, he's going to have an awesome, like 41-half-inch vertical last summer.

You know, no body fat. He's going to, like, 255 is what he's bulked up to from 220 in the last two years. He's going to do some special things. I think my guess, by the way, I think it's something like six drops according to PFF this year. I bet he quiets some people about the way he tracks and catches the ball, because most of the time, it's real natural. Then there are two players that are off the, Francis Maui Noah, I'm told,

is going to have a really good week, too. But North Dakota State's going to have two guys that really improved their stock this week. It's not surprising. Cole Payton, who we saw at the Senior Bowl, who I have a little bit of a man crush on right now. And I usually do not like Southpaw quarterbacks, and I really don't like quarterbacks

that have, like, tighter upper bodies. And we'll get into it. all that as we break him down as we get closer to the draft. But I'm watching this guy's tape and like it ain't pretty and he looks like it's a javelin shot put type and it's coming from the left side so it's even more awkward. It looks weird, yeah. We used to call Portnoy growing up. What was the phrase we had? Because everything, he was from the left side and he was like, you know, like he just couldn't do it.

And then he threw funny because he had the shoulder stuff. So it kind of reminded me of that. And everything was just like, you know. But then I watched the ball placement. And, like, he would be throwing off-tar, off-platform, like, guys hanging on him, running, this, that, the other. And it would be like, just, like, bang in the strike zone, man. And super smart kid. He was a three-year player.

I just did all of his stuff. Three-year player there, North Dakota State. Actually, four-year player. First three years, he was, like, rushing, like, 600 yards, 450. He was in this package that he would rotate in. And then he finally got the starting job this past year and was awesome. And then do you know at the senior ball? He had a broken bone in his thumb.

He was the modern day FCC version at the senior bowl, John Mateer, in his throwing hand. I didn't know that. I had no idea. How would you know? Yeah. Because he didn't throw the ball. Like anything was wrong. So I'm told he's going to work out well here, as you would expect as a mobile quarterback.

I'm talking to NFL teams. There are a couple now who have said, like, we have a clear. vision for this guy. Package early on, goal line, short yardage. He's going to go do all those little things for us and also with the threat of being able to boot it out and throw the ball. And hopefully we can develop him. I think he's going to have a big week. He's the name you want to get to know. And then the other one is teammate. You might recognize this last name, Lance. And I've mentioned him before, but Trey Lance's brother, younger brother, is a wide receiver at North Dakota State.

6-3, 207 pounds. I'm watching Cole Payton's tape. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's Lance. Reverses, deep balls. And he had a 40-inch vertical and 10-10 broad, according to Feldman again. Yep. Hey, Bruce, thanks.

We've got a lot of stuff going back. Super helpful. But watch out for him to have a big week. In a wide receiver class, it's absolutely loaded. All right. That's enough. I got to say one guy. Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Really bummed the Penn State running back. Nicholas Singleton's not going to be able to work out here. broke his foot at the senior bowl not going to be able to do it not a choice thing can't do it i mean this was he did not have a great year and this is one of those i thought he had an opportunity to shine and really help himself he's you know at 220 pounds he's going to run the i think he was going to run the four threes and then when you see him on the field he's going to catch the ball well because that's what he does and just a bummer that he's not going to be able to do it i agree it's been a rough 12 months for uh for singleton um i'm excited about this interview i already told you like

Full transparency on the show, we just taped it right before we came on. And thank you, Stacey James, by the way, who not only takes care of my family, going to Patriots games, has just been a wonderful ally for 25 years of doing this, for making this all happen through Allison Turner, who also is amazing here at the Ringer, who helped line up all these GM interviews, because I hate texting guys and like, yo, you mind coming on? but Elliot Wolf

everyone knows him is the son of Ron Wolf right and he absolutely like as I said before 10 years old watching tape with your old man

sitting in the Lambeau field to grow up around this absolutely an advantage but he also has absolutely cemented himself as one of the

I don't want to say youngest but he's not he's young as one of the smartest like I think become one of the most well

rounded personnel people. And you go back, and we were just talking after the interview, like what he did in free agency this offseason, the moves they made from the big time signing of Williams to like the pieces that they were able to put together, the meshing with Vrable and having no real history working together. He's, you'll have three starters in that class. He got a fourth round starting safety, two guys along the offensive line, two guys who were contributing on offense and Kyle Williams, a wide receiver, and trade

on Henderson the running back. And then I think this kind of flies under the radar, but he got a long snapper and a place kicker. I mean, that hit rate is insane. And he grew up in that tree under his father, but with John Schneider moving on, winning a Super Bowl now. And I told you like, there's something about those guys.

There's a purity. And we grew up around area scouts who have grown into, you know, higher, higher positions and general managers and directors of this and that and the other thing. But there's a purity to like, I just want to go watch the college tape to find out what I can unearth. And that's, if you listen to this interview, you can see that passion is still there. So here we go with Elliot Wolfe as we continue our decision maker series here at the McShay Show. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors.

Now that the excitement for bowl season is over, it's time to look ahead, mainly to the draft and who's going to make the cut. We're not the only ones looking ahead right now, though. Scout, an iconic American off-road brand from the 70s is being re-envisioned for a new generation with ideas for an all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. By the way, I registered. I'm on the list. I'm on the waiting list.

I've got to have one of these cars in 2027, baby. Think body on frame construction, optional 35-inch tires, and modern capability built on authentic heritage. Join the wait list at scout motors.com. Concept vehicles, not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase, although I believe in you scout. Visit scout motors.com for details.

Well, we welcome in Elliot Wolf. Really excited to have you with us, obviously, just the backstory. And I think hopefully people have explained to you what we're doing here. I'm not going to ask you about your draft picks and what needs you have or what you're doing in the offseason. And congratulations on reaching the Super Bowl. Obviously, I know that you've had some time to decompress and look at everything. But with this GM decision-maker series,

we really try to focus on kind of what got you here? What are your philosophies? What are your principles? The evolution of evaluating. And for you, I'm sure you, I don't know if you get tired of it, but I'm sure the jumping off point is obviously growing up in the house of a general manager.

one of the titans of the profession in Ron Wolfe. And so, Elliot, like, I want to start with this. The game has changed so much, and we'll get to your evolution. But I really want to know from you when you look back, and there's stories about you being 10 years old and Lambeau Field watching tape and, you know, just a unique and awesome background in childhood for you. But when you look back on everything you learned from your father and with the Packers and everything, you know, from your past, what are the, like, the fact? foundation pillars for you that you still hold on to today? Yeah, I would just say, first of all, thanks for having me.

But I would just say, you know, treating people the right way and making sure that everyone's invested in the team and the vision that you have, being honest without being, you know, too painfully honest and hurtful, but being honest. And just as far as talent acquisition is just trusting what you see and believing in it and really, you know, making sure that you're putting in the work and trying to identify the players that are going to help you get there. When you, but I know, John Schneider, and you look at the tree and some of the people who have gone on from that Green Bay tree or, you know, the Ron Wolf tree.

But I also, in talking to some people, the grading scale and the value system players, can you, like our audience, my whole purpose of this, and our whole purpose of this is to try to kind of peel back the curtain a little bit. Like different teams have different grading scales, different verbiage that they use. user, you know. So what is it about your system that you think is important to share, that you can share, that maybe differentiates what you guys do versus some other GMs or other departments in the league that you've talked to? Yeah, I think a lot's been made at the grading scale switch in New England just because they were very successful there with the Piooli, Belichick, whoever came up with that scale. Really what we've tried to do is simplify that. And there were just too many little, in my opinion, too many little pockets or buckets that it was getting too much

into the minutia that maybe a first year area scout obviously isn't as nuanced as Coach Belichick was. So that obviously worked for them. They were tremendously successful with that. But as we had a young scouting staff and I just felt like going back to what I was more familiar with with the call it the Ron Wolf Packer scale that a lot of teams are using. And to answer your question, It's really just putting them in buckets and just making sure that you're not losing sight of who the good players are. Because we have so much information now. We get bogged down with all these little details and, you know, especially as draft season is upon us. And, you know, now all of a sudden you're starting to see articles about, like, Fernando Mandoza can't play.

Like, okay, guys, come on. And, you know, it's just, it's just like, it's such a draft industry now, which is great. There's a ton of interest in it, which we love. But it's really just kind of sticking to, you know, keeping what's important, important. And that's, you know, who the good players are. I want to talk about Will Campbell because we've talked about him a lot on the show. I'm sure you have no idea about this. I thought that it was high for him at four.

And then McShay was sticking into me all year about how good Will Campbell played. And he did. He played really well. And then obviously he didn't end the year the way he wanted to. And I guess specifically the way I want to look at it is how do you guys self-scout and look at a player like Will Campbell, who I think, I'm being honest, I did have concerns about some of the tape and the arm length, but showed some things this year, and I don't know how healthy was at the end, how do you self-sought and decide whether or not you might need to make a change there?

Which I think is aggressive, but everyone from Worcester to Haveral wants to move him to guard at this point. You know what I mean? We're not moving him to guard. He's a young guy that had a tremendous season. You know, I would say three of his four worst games happened to come in the playoffs post-injury. And, you know, he was healthy, but I think he'd be the first to tell him. you that maybe he wasn't able to anchor the same way he had with the knee injury. But as we self-scout, I think the important thing is being honest with yourself and honest with your team and not really having an agenda.

You know, there's a ton of people that are in my position and probably myself included guilty of this sometimes is kind of protecting your draft picks. But you have to get away from that and you have to understand, you know, protecting your draft picks. If that's not the best thing for the team, then you have to do something different. And I think when you look at a lot of the guys that we drafted in 2024, we have moved on from some of those guys already because it wasn't the best thing for the team to keep them. Can I guess one more about? Yeah, because we talked to Mickey Loomis from the Saints about outliers. I think for us, Campbell falls in that category because of the arm length.

When you're evaluating a guy like that, what did you see in Will and maybe in other players when they maybe don't check a box in terms of height, weight, speed, length, whatever. I'm sure you guys have parameters of kind of what you're looking for. for what did you see in Will or what did you see in other players that will make you say, I want to take a chance on this guy despite maybe this physical flaw? Yeah, I would just say each case is different. You know, in Will's case, it was he had a lot of major compensating factors for the fact that he didn't have his long arms or big wingspan as a lot of guys play in the position.

He was elite hand use and technique, great feet, ability to recover. And we just felt like if you put on the tape, yeah, you know, there were some losses in college. but that's every college tackle. And there were just enough compensating factors as well as the makeup and the person that we felt like we were getting a good one and we still feel that way. Yeah.

I want to go back to kind of what put you in this position where you are today, right? So you obviously grow up the son of Ron Wolf and then you wind up at Miami undergrad. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. That's right so far. And I think you were like a volunteer in recruiting and it turned out to be the best roster in the history of college football in most people's

opinion mine included in 2001 at Miami. Then you wind up, it's 14 years in Green Bay, rise through the ranks, then Cleveland assistant GM. Then you get to New England and it's as a senior assistant or senior consultant. Consultant, okay. And then you're kind of, everyone knows that you're kind of on track to be, and it's not GM, it's executive. executive vice president of player personnel, right? But then Mike Vrable comes in. And I even remember personally being like, this isn't going to be interesting. Yep.

Because Vrable's not Vrable for, you know, he's not like shy about having his things and the way he wants it. And everyone who comes in and has that much power wants to bring their guy or have their people. So there was this kind of like gray period from the outside looking in, kind of wondering, is it going to, mesh, you know, or are you going to be on to the next place or, you know, maybe a year or two, and then we'll, and it's, again, from the outside looking in, it seems like you guys very quickly develop this bond and trust. How did all that happen? Share what you're willing to share behind the scenes where he developed that trust and you to develop this relationship where all of a sudden a year later you're in the Super Bowl and now we're off and running, we're just

building this thing. Yeah, I mean, just to probably oversimplify it a little bit, but We both just want to win. And coming off some lean years in Cleveland and in New England, from the time that I got there, we had some interesting seasons for various reasons. But catching each other at the time of just really wanting to win and wanting to build this thing. And I think having the awareness to understand

that as long as everyone's pulling in the right direction and putting the team first, that we have the opportunity to do something special here. And we, from day one, just kind of clicked on that. And, you know, it was really cool being able to visit with him in the interview. He and I stepped away from Robert and Jonathan Kraft for probably hour, hour and a half, something like that,

and just kind of sat one on one to visit with each other. Because I knew him a little bit, like, well enough to say hello, but I had never really, you know, spent a lot of time with them really diving in. And it was really cool from that moment on because we believe in a lot of the same things, you know, how to treat people being honest, being respectful, putting the team first,

like building it the right way and building a culture in the building, which obviously, you know, he's got the bigger personality than I have, and I'm good with that. Yeah. I think that kind of helps. You know, we work well together in that regard. And, you know, I think just kind of not making

a big deal out of little things about like, who's gonna be in charge of this, who's gonna be in charge of that. Like we just, you know, we talk it through. We have great communication along with Ryan Cowden, John Stryker, Frank Perino, and some of the other people that, you know, he brought with him that had been with him previously, and it's been a good situation.

One more, and I want to get back to some of the players specifically. When everyone has a mentor, everyone has multiple people who really have helped them develop in whatever field or profession they're in, right? And yours is unique because it's your father, and it was your whole lifetime, basically, around the Green Bay, the Packer Way, and all those things. but this game has evolved so much, right? And I'm sure even your dad would be like, you know, these things are different than when we first started out.

And so how have you evolved while keeping those foundation pieces that you talked about? How have you evolved, whether it's technology, you know, differing different spots and different places you've landed, how have they helped shape you? Can you just talk me through kind of your evolution and what you've held on to versus what you've tried to advance or just simply adjust to today's game. Yeah, I mean, I think the first part of that is just kind of understanding the areas that you're good at and the areas where you need supplementation and improvement. You know, coming from Green Bay, we had a very small analytics department

and going from there to Cleveland, which probably has the biggest, you know, was an adjustment. And I didn't probably know enough about it at the time to even ask the right questions to even get started. It's hard, right? Yeah, and they're operating on some different levels that I'll never get to. Some of those guys in Cleveland. Andrew Healy, I mean, you know, some of the people that are really impressive. But then kind of coming to New England where, again, Bill wasn't really, you know, he has a good research department, you know, with Richard Miller. And he had Ernie Adams that did a lot of stuff too.

But, you know, Richard is still there, and he provides a lot of value as far as some of the, you know, even if it's contract market research or, you know, a study on penalties or, you know, it breaks it down that way. And then we've hired McKenna Yola Conma from the 49ers and Max Mullets who was with the Dolphins to supplement our analytics department on the coaching and the scouting side. And they're kind of diving into a lot of cool stuff right now. So I would say that that was an area that I was probably, like probably behind a lot of my peers at the time from where I started at where, you know, now I've, I feel like I can talk about it a little bit. Right. So we're like six, seven questions in now,

and I'm sure everyone in New England's like, what about Drake May? Asked it. So let's get to Drake. And we've had Mickey Loomis on. We just talked about Tyler Shock. We've had Howie Roseman on multiple quarterbacks, and Eric DeCasta with Lamar.

The list goes on. I'm curious from your perspective. And it fascinates me. Take us through that process from maybe the first scouting report you read or the first interaction you had with him all the way up to that moment where you were like, yeah, this is the guy. You know? Yeah, I mean, so I'll take you back even further than that. So, you know, I came up. I was hired by the Packers in 04 with Brett Farr.

And, you know, my second year working full time, we drafted Aaron Rodgers. So I did not understand what real life was like for almost. everybody else. We went from one Hall of Famer to another Hall of Famer pretty seamlessly. And then, you know, and then we go to Cleveland and we have the first pick in the draft. And so we were able to get a quarterback there. So, you know, then we come to New England. And I think I got hired March 1st. And I think Tom Brady signed with the Buccaneers on like March 12th or something like that. So he heard out, he heard I was coming and he was like, I'm out of him. I'm out of getting it. But so anyway, so, you know, we, we went through, you know,

We had Cam Newton, then we drafted Mack Jones. And it was a period of, you know, Mac had the really good first year. But then it was kind of some bumps for various reasons. But, you know, having the opportunity to get a guy. I mean, you know, so I've always been, even when I was in Green Bay, I've always been very proactive about the quarterback position. Even when, you know, there's a situation, hey, we're not probably drafting a quarterback, you know, until maybe the fifth or sixth round.

Like I would still try to go see live the, the, top guys. I think it's important to see those guys live because you can see things that you can't see on film. You can see them come off the field. Who do they interact with on the sideline? You know, what, what's, are they talking their teammates? Are they just off by themselves with a towel on there? You know, all those things that, you know, because it's the CEO position. And so I had the opportunity, you know, we heard about Drake when he was a freshman. I mean, he was playing really well. And, hey, this is going to be a guy in a couple years. And I'm probably like, like a classic hater on all these freshmen. I'm just like, no, we're going to hate this guy in three years.

You know, you watch him on TV and he, you know, airmail is a throw. And it's kind of, not him. Through a little. Yeah. But everybody, you know, I'm like that. I'm like naturally skeptical, I guess. So you fit in New England. Yeah. Yeah. So I had the opportunity. I went down. I did not see him playing a game. I saw him practice. And it was really impressive. I mean, he's out there just slinging it. I mean, you know, it was a normal in-season practice. And, you know, he's making, I remember a couple, like, post throws that were really, really impressive. And then, you know, you know, you talk to people about the guy.

And, you know, everyone's, everyone pushes their players. Of course. Purses their quarterback especially. But, you know, there was something a little bit different about Drake because it all seemed genuine from every person you talk to. And then, you know, the first time we met him, I think was probably here in Indy. And, you know, you get the little 15. at formal interview where you know basically can ask one question and the bell rings and he got somewhere else but then we had the opportunity to come see him again at uh before the pro day we met with him that morning

and uh you know had a film session with him and you know he's he's he's all about the right things it's all genuine um and just the things that you do see on film that you know everyone sees the physical talent yeah but the toughness and the competitiveness are just off the charts and and you know that's really ultimately what won us over. Yeah. I wonder, because I think this is a dangerous game to play, but do you look ahead at future draft classes? And the reason I'm asking is, is the next year's class everyone seems to think is going to just be a monster class.

I mean, a quarterback, wide receiver, a number of positions. Do you look ahead of that and does it affect maybe your approach in the current draft? Not just this situation, but any time during your career, are you looking ahead and saying, we want to make sure that we have draft capital in that year to make sure we get those players. And it kind of is interesting to me too because you're picking a lot later than than you have been, right? I mean, that comes with a success. You have to pick later. And I'm just wondering if you could talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I think doing that at quarterback makes sense. I think you have to do that at quarterback. I think you have to work

ahead and be aware, especially when you don't have one, like which we were in that world for a while. Right. When you do have one, I think, you know, trying to look at other positions and predict who's going to be good and who's going to be bad. Like, I don't know if that's the right way to do it. It's dangerous. We've never really done it that way. You know, I'm sure there's exceptions like Jeremiah Smith, whenever he's coming out, like he's going to be, you know, he's going to be the top one or two picks. Right.

Again, depending on quarterback class probably. Yeah. And you're hoping you're not in the mix to get that. Yeah, just as an example. But, yeah, I mean, I think understanding, you know, when and where the quarterbacks are, because, you know, if you guys remember, like, that was a huge storyline in New England when we had the third pick in the draft. And it was, you know, this team can't support a franchise quarterback, a young rookie quarterback, you know, take the tackle or the wide receiver and pick the quarterback next year. And I didn't understand that. Like, we have some real, I mean, generational guys here. You had an opportunity to get, you know, Drake May versus waiting a year. And, I mean, who would it have been? I don't know who would have been.

Yeah. Yeah. You just mentioned something that it made me think. And I think we hear it all the time. But unless you're in those meetings, I would assume the people who are watching this would be interested. You always hear, we've got them on the board. Or we watch tape. Take us through what that's like.

You get what maybe it's an hour, two hours, whatever it is. you've got a quarterback or could be any other position. What's that process? Obviously, you're trying to figure out how they learn and what their recall is and those sorts of things. But like you go in with X amount of plays, you're trying to get certain answers. What's that process like for somebody who doesn't know? You're talking about with a player.

With a player. One-on-one, you've got an opportunity to watch tape with them or get them on the board. Take us through what that's like. Again, you know, I'm really more, personally, I'm really more interested in how they answer the questions. if they're, you know, being honest, if they're trying to fake their way through it, if they're a little full of shit.

As far as the actual X's and O's, you know, we rely heavily on the coaching staff for that. You know, but I think you can, you know, you can tell if a guy doesn't know if it's manner zone or if a guy, you know, is you can't talk through cover three or whatever the case may be. But really, it's just getting a feel for the person and seeing if the information you've gotten

from the coaching staff on that, from the college coaching staff on that player, matches up with what you what you're seeing. Usually it does in the instances that it doesn't, then you have to kind of go back and spend more time with them or do more work. I've actually spent a lot of time

looking at kind of successful models with quarterbacks. When you land one, then what's the approach? And it seems like the successful model, whether it's, you know, with Mahomes or even Josh Allen to a certain degree, like go back and look at all a lot, not all. The eagle. for example.

The successful model, and it was surprising to me when I went and studied it, like the next year is a major shift to the defensive side. Now, the asterisk in there is if you're able to, and have the personnel to protect that quarterback. It's really about like play caller's protection and playmakers, right, around the quarterback position. But if you, I'm curious, is there an emphasis on. And you've been talking to Bill Polion a lot about, like, there's one guy that can, you know, make up from more sins than any other player on an organization.

It's a quarterback. And so now he's going to help on that side of the ball make up for maybe some personnel deficits where we have a salary cap. And there's only so much we can do. We better get great on the defensive side personnel-wise because we don't have maybe someone over there that can. So with all that theory behind, like, have you looked into or, you? Is there some kind of process in your mind that you would like to in terms of stabilizing around and setting Drake up for the most success, what that formula looks like? I mean, again, I think it's different every year.

And I think, you know, with where we're at as a team, you know, we're still building. Yeah. I will always be building. I mean, you know, every team talks about, you know, they've arrived. But, you know, every roster is different every year. So it's always a different, you know, it's a different team from year to year. You know, I think we're still at the point where we're trying to acquire as many good players as we possibly can. And whether that happens to be on the defensive side or the offensive side, look, we're going to prioritize protection and playmakers always.

But we're also going to prioritize, you know, speed and playmaking on defense as well. So, you know, I don't think there's a, I haven't developed a full formula yet as far as, you know, we went offense in the first round the last two years. we got to go defense this year. I don't see that as a priority, especially now, as you mentioned, that we're picking 31, you know, we're going to try and pick the best player that's there.

Right. Do you look at this class and does it affect, I always hear about teams wanting to fill all their needs in free agency, but do you actually look at the class and say to yourself, we feel really good at the depth at off the ball linebacker, we feel really good about the depth at guard, so maybe in free agency we're going to be more aggressive about tarding a certain position?

Yeah, I think you have to. I mean, I think you have to be aware of the strengths and deficits of not only the draft, but also the free agency class. Right. You know, all the difference making players save one are probably getting tagged here. So, you know, we're aware of that and we're going to, you know, we have plans to pivot and, you know, maybe look at some other people that become available. I think people need to look at the way you guys handle the Milton Williams situation.

I mean, that's obviously a home run signing. A 26-year-old guy does that kind of a thing. I mean, the last two Super Bowls was just been incredible in those games. And I want to talk about positional value where I think traditionally, you would look at more of a traditional edge is that kind of a closer on defense.

And obviously Williams is a guy. I mean, you look at the numbers, the analytics of him in the lineup against the run versus out of the lineup and all that. But I really think it's that pass rush ability into, I mean, quarterback's hate when you take away space in the middle. And I do wonder if you guys are a little bit

ahead of the curve there and do you look at certain positions and say the game's changing or maybe this guy loves slot defenders. I mean, he thinks that they're like the newest thing, the versatile defensive back. Yeah, the hottest thing going. You know what I mean? Is that something you look at that where maybe other teams aren't valuing something that you see you could take advantage of? Yeah, I mean, I don't know that other teams aren't valuing that. I mean, I think they are as well. You know, we just, again, Milton was such a unique one. Like, we had the opportunity to get, you know, a UFA who's young, who's still ascending, which, you know, There's not many of those.

And I think in a typical year, somebody like that wouldn't be available. It's just Philadelphia, like, you know, they had too many good players. So now all of a sudden, you know, we have the opportunity to go try to sign this guy. And, you know, fortunately, he ended up coming. Gotcha. All right. Let's rip through a few of these. Ready?

I think people are, there's only 32 of you in the world. It's the, at least this country's biggest sport, right? So people are, I think, fascinated, and I don't think there's enough coverage and what everything you guys go through. What is, you're pulled in so many directions, right? Stuck talking to us here in the combine. You know, but like, what still is your favorite part of the job? And there's no wrong answer. Like, what is, like, you get two hours, you're in the office or wherever it is,

and you, like, no one's asking you for something. There's not a fire to put out. Like, what is the part where you're like, I get to go do what I love the most? Yeah, I mean, I would say on a regular work day, it's probably just being able to sit in my office and watch college film. College still? Yeah, college, you know, pro, like, you got to watch it, you watch it,

but you know the backgrounds of everybody already. You at least have some familiarity with everybody already. College is like new people every year, so that's, I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. But I would just say on a non-just regular day, it's still winning, winning the game, being on the sideline at the end of the game, and just seeing the joy of the guys because you know how much they've put into it. And I'm just, you know, this year we won a lot

and we're hopeful that we can keep that going. But, you know, when you end up winning the AFC, you know, it's snowing, you're on the field and everyone's jumping around. And really the coolest thing for me is just seeing how excited the players are. I've always, when the teams that I've been on, have been a part of have had some success,

I've always found that when you have a big moment like that, like I find myself being happier for other people that I am maybe for myself and just just the sheer enthusiasm and joy that the players showed after the coaches as well after the game was pretty special you work a whole career to ascend to this position and there are thousands of people who are in the industry who are would love to get to the position that you're in but with that comes a lot of extras and like I just talked about being tugged in different directions and fires to put out what's the part I don't want to say that you're least favorite but what is the part of your job

job that when you got to this point that you weren't expecting was going to have so much of a whether it's a time drain or whatever it is that that was not it's not ideal for you. This year hasn't been too bad with anything. You know, I would say in 2024, handling some of the player discipline stuff was challenging. And you're trying your best to keep it consistent while also working with the coaching staff. You know, So like Mike kind of took over most of that this year. So that helped a lot. That was good.

I would just say, you know, some of the non-football things that you have to deal with. I mean, it's still, you know, I got in this game to scout. And that's kind of what I always just wanted to do. And so as you ascend, you become, you know, you have more responsibility and, you know, people are looking to you for stuff. But really just probably the non-football things that come up each day. We've asked all the GMs who have been kind enough and gracious enough with their time to come on. How big is your final draft board?

It's fascinating, I think, to fans out there, how that number varies. Like how many players on average or approximately will your final board for the draft be when you go in? Probably about 200. I mean, I've heard some teams keep it, like, really, really low. Now there's guys that are kind of upside down or we wouldn't consider for various reasons or maybe a guy that's upside down in the second. round that we would consider in the seventh round or something like that. But we we try to we try to make it as realistic as possible because you know when the bullets are flying and all of a sudden you think you're

going to be able like you said oh it's a whatever position it's a good defensive tackle class we know we're going to be able to get one and then there's only one left and you better you know you have to make a decision are you going to try to trade up for them or you know just hope he comes to you and then you know so we try to be realistic with with where we put guys and you know last year it fell it fell pretty well for us as far as where we had guys and you know had a successful draft you know don't know if that'll happen this year yeah just just have to try to make the best decisions you can't so when you say upside down is that a guy who maybe has like an injury history or a character concern yeah any any extenuating circumstance flag that that you have to maybe talk

through before you send the name in yeah you don't have to tell me exactly what the failure is but a failure that you've had in your career what did you learn from that I would say some of the biggest failures as far as drafting players have come when you don't listen to the scouts. When, whether it's you or maybe you and somebody else, the tire ranking, kind of go away from what the feet on the ground have said about the guy. Like, hey, you know, I don't trust this guy. Like, he's not a football guy. You know, they've been saying that since December meetings. You know, it came in in their first report in September.

And, you know, you think the talent can maybe outweigh some of the, you know, some of the things that they said about them. And that's been true, you know, since I got into it in 2004. I've seen it happen. And, you know, we've tried to make sure that those things, you know, we've got to listen to the scouts because they're the ones that put in the work and they know these guys better than anyone. Can I tell you how many times we've sat in whether it's like the Conrad or the JW Hotel

here or hotel in Mobile? We grew up with scout area scouts, you know, 25 years and early on, a lot of those guys have now since risen, but the complaints and the frustration of those guys who have been studying these guys, like, on the road, away from their families, know every detail about what they eat for lunch and, you know, and then get to these meetings. Now the coaches get involved and the directors and, you know, and coming back to the hotel rooms, just like throwing backpacks on the ground, you know, the frustration. So it's pretty cool to hear that.

All right. Last one. And this is the most important question we ask. And we're coming off our best answer. I'll be honest. Howie was okay. Eric and Nick were a little, Nick Casario, a little underwhelming.

I'm not afraid to say that. I told that to him. The spread, the draft weekend spread, food-wise. Now, Mickey Loomis in New Orleans, and they had sushi one day, and I mean, they actually exceeded expectations. We're New England guys, and we have a little more time on our hands,

so we've become a little bit of foodies. What's the spread? like how important is that for you? Who takes care of that? What's the deal? So Ted Harper is in charge of nutrition, and he orders for the first night. It's Davios.

Okay. And so we get Davios. So it's steak. It's a steak. I was worried when you said the head of nutrition was in charge of this. Yeah, I know. He has some awareness about it.

Okay. But we got lobster tails. We got steak. We got karma comes in for sushi. Yes. And then there's always some, sort of special dessert that he orders from elsewhere that that comes in so hopefully from the north end or something yeah yeah yeah and then we have uh we'll have dinner and then on the on the nights you know on thursday and friday we'll have

late night snack which well that was always my thing because having doing i haven't done the draft for 20 plus years and being like on tv different from your role but i have to assume it's the same mental space right like i want a snack here and there i got to take a bathroom break i want to and i want some things that I love, but then when it's done, it's like, and I'm starving, right? So, like, you got, the meal is good. It's good to have all that. But, like, what's after, right? Yeah, so they, they had all kinds of stuff. I mean, there's, there's chips and, you know, drinks and sparkling water, stuff like that all day. But last year, they had these soft pretzels, these big soft pretzels that were, like, dusted with cinnamon and sugar. Oh. And those, those went pretty fast. I immediately thought mustard.

Yeah. You guys with the sweets. Yeah, it was a sweet. It was a sweet. It was a, It was a dessert style, so it was good. I feel good about this. All the other questions are great, but we're finally starting to set. So hopefully we'll carry this over. Elliot, I really appreciate the time, man. It's good to get to know you a little bit better, and good luck to you. Thank you.

All right. Thanks. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-help.com. Call 1-88-7-89-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

Visit gambling helpline-m-m-a.org or call 1-800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1877-8-Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1877-7-770-7867.