The McShay Show - Day 2 NFL Combine Reactions: Defensive Line Winners and What to Make of Abdul Carter’s Injury.

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! Todd and Steve are LIVE from Indianapolis to talk all the latest news from around the NFL. They open by discussing Abdul Carter’s foot injury and how teams may approach his decision to not get surgery. Then, the guys sort through Thursday’s testing numbers and identify which defensive players were the biggest Day 2 winners. (1:40) Abdul Carter's Injury Implications (9:20) Evaluating the DL workouts (48:00) DT Workout Evaluations (1:12:40) LB Workout Evaluations (1:18:40) Coming up this week from the Combine Sign up today to receive Todd’s Mock 1.0 and premium access to every mock draft, exclusive scouting reports, inside information from league sources, and deep-dive analyses from now until the draft. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome in. This is it. Day one of workouts, 2025 NFL scouting combine. I kind of forgot how big of a blur this whole thing is, right? Tornado. Absolutely tornado. And it started early in the day with news breaking. Several defensive linemen didn't wind up working out, unfortunately. Three of the top four edge rushers did not run. The top three defensive tackles did not run. We'll get to some of that information as we go through the position groups. but the number one prospect in the entire draft class, Abdul Carter from Penn State, all of a sudden news comes out that no one was aware of. And let's go through the timeline real quickly. All of a sudden, Adam Schaefter is sending out ex post saying that he's a stress fracture in his right foot and it's not known at this point if he's going to wind up having to get surgery. And so, like, we're texting people what's going on.

everyone's trying to get caught up. It was breaking news, and we're trying to deal with it in the moment. And then all of a sudden, we start to get information that, okay, pump the brakes a little bit. It is a stress fracture. It's not going to require surgery. It should heal on its own. And March 28th is Penn State's Pro Day, and they're saying right now that Abdul is planning on working out there. So, like, you talk about the different.

By the way, 56 days of the NFL draft, meant you good? I'm good. All right, good. you talk about like waking up to a mess and thinking one extreme like this we're talking about the number one overall prospect in the entire draft class maybe unavailable throughout this process and maybe it lingers into training camp does this affect his draft stock to all right maybe it seems like a near miss like a scare but all should be good yeah i'm glad it's not more serious or it doesn't sound like it's more serious and again we have to monitor it you

We'll see what happens going forward and whether there's more information that comes out. And maybe he decides not to work out of his pro day to play it safe to make sure he heals. But right now, it sounds like it's not too serious. And I do hope that he gets to work out of his pro day because this is a guy who has a chance to put on a show. We could run on the four threes at his size. So hopefully we get to see him do that. Yeah, I don't even care what he does at his pro day in terms of numbers. I want him to work out at his pro day to put this to rest.

because all of a sudden as we get closer, is it, well, we're not sure, maybe he'll work out later, then the speculation starts to build. Right. The skepticism starts to build. And so this is something we're going to closely monitor because you've got to remember how this whole thing works. Like, doctors come out and say one thing, right?

And they say it to the teams and also to the people for Abdul Carter. Abdul gets the information. He's in a, they go over to like, you know, medical areas. think they send him over to the hospital, you know, in certain types of situations. And so he's kind of learning this firsthand. And then, and then Rosenhouse, Drew Rosenhouse, the very famous agent, well, you know, well-known agent, gets wind of it. And so now he's scrambling.

Scambling to put some PR spin and sprinkle some dust on it, right? And you just, I just want to see him work out. You want the first overall pick to be a clean evaluation. Correct. So I get it. I get it on that end. But if the medical comes back and he's all right and teams are comfortable with the medical, yeah, it would make me feel better.

But it doesn't have to be teams, man. Like a team, like Tennessee. Exactly. Right. Good point. If a team, if Tennessee is comfortable with it and you know he's going to go first overall, yeah, I'd sleep easier a night seeing him move around a little bit at the Penn State Pro Day. But ultimately, it only matters to Abdul Carter and the potential teams that are going to draft.

And I will say this, a little bit of, and it's just buzzed. We're going to, we'll tell you when stuff is, like, real and it will be reported, and we're always going to stay in our lane. But there's, like, I keep hearing stuff, just talking to people as texting and going back and forth. Like, Tennessee, and we've said this from the jump. The one thing I do feel good about is Tennessee is open for business with that number one pick. They recognize they are more than a quarterback away, and that quarterback probably isn't

in this draft. And so with that information, while they will, it doesn't matter who they love in this draft, they look at this, if they get a deal worth moving back from number one, they're going to, I've heard that those talks may start to ramp up. Let's just put it that way. That's what I'm hearing. And there are some teams that have put out some feelers and there's some senses and conversations and reading between the lines and the tea leaves, giants being one of them.

interesting stuff about the Raiders at six. But yeah, I think the Giants are going to be interesting. Well, they try to move up ahead of Cleveland. And I think that information, quite honestly, and we'll get to all the combine workouts in a second, I promise. I think that information is starting to come out because there was a little bit of a scramble. Speaking of my boy, Shephti,

a little bit of a scramble when he came out and said, the only thing that I feel, you know, almost certainty in this draft is that Cleveland will take a quarterback at number two. Well, when you hear that, now everyone's like running to the Giants and trying to, who do you know inside the Giants organization? What information do we? So I think there's, maybe it's all smoke, maybe it's people wanting it to happen and sending information out. But I'm hearing more and more about the Giants being a possibility moving up to number one.

And that would only make sense if it's for Cam Ward, in my opinion. Right. It's your door you. Stay home. Everyone stays home. It's going to be Tennessee picking at number one, very likely Abdul Carter. I think the 10% play would be Travis Hunter, one of those two players, a position player. Number two, if the information is correct from Shafti, it's going to be a quarterback.

In all likelihood, that's going to be Cam Ward. Yeah. And so if it were Shador, you just stay home at three. You don't give up what it's going to take to move up to one, which is going to be probably a second this year and maybe a first next year. It's going to be a lot to move up two spots. And then keep an eye on Matt Stafford. You know, are the giants a team that's going to make a deal for Matt Stafford? And then that's no longer the issue of them having a way for Cam Ward or Shador Sanders.

When we talk about, people are always, I think they think it's interesting that we say, we're still kind of early in the process. And it's, you know, late February. It's because of, you know, we have had no free agency. And we have players that we know are going to be on the move. And so there's a lot of dust that still needs to settle before you can really be clear about who's going to need to make that move to potentially go up and get a Cam Ward. Right.

And we've talked to GMs who have said we knew in February. He was our guy at quarterback with the number one pick. I mean, people have said it in the past. We talked to Eric DeCosta, who said that when they drafted Lamar Jackson, that people in the organization didn't even know that they were going to move up and make the pick, let alone they were going to take Lamar Jackson. And there were only two people in the room who knew at the time. Everyone left.

Everyone left to go do, like the PR stuff for their other first round pick who was the, I think, the tight end, right? Hunter Hendon. Yeah. Earlier in that first round. Pretty wild that Lamar Jackson went after was the second pick of the first. But anyway. Yeah.

So, all right. A lot to unpack. The edge group was a lot more impressive and kind of lived up to the standard than I would say compared to the interior defensive line group. We'll get to that in a little bit. There's a lot of information I think is fascinating with the interior defensive lineman. There's a lot we learned today from the interior defensive lineman. It's a group that, like, go back to 1992, if you want to find a defensive tackle group, an interior defensive line group that is going to have as many players drafted from that position

in the same class. It's loaded. 32, I believe, in 1992, 32 or 34, something like that. It was 30 plus. And that's what this year's group is going to be, that we have around close to 20 grades in the first three rounds, right? but the edge group there were more fireworks of course and that's what we expected and the fireworks for me began i mean kind of with the measurements to be honest with you okay but i when i look at it

and i'm i'm not i'm not like taking phone calls about reservations and i've got all my notes right here because i don't have time to print and write everything down so the first thing that jumped out at me at me was this and i think we have a graphic for this Tucker The highest verticals at 260 plus pounds, dating back to 2003. Two of the four highest that we've seen since 2003, we're talking 20 plus years, where happened today here, right here in Indy. Landon Jackson with a 40-and-a-half-inch vertical, the edge from Arkansas. Ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous. It's 6-6, mind you, 264 pounds. 33 and a quarter inch arms. He had a 40 and a half inch vertical and also a 10-9 broad jump, also best in class. Tape is interesting, and we can get into that in a minute. But when you put up those numbers, and I didn't see a 40 for him yet, I don't know that he actually ran. No, he did. It was a 4-7 unofficial.

Right. And we'll see if we can get some officials while we're still on the air tonight. And stick with us here. We're doing it live because it's the right thing to do. here. 468. 468 official. So a sub 4-7 at 6-6, 264 pounds, with a 40-and-a-half-inch vertical showing that lower-body explosion.

Can I'm impressive? Can we add a dunk contest to the combine or no? Here we go. Cynical Steve, always. I'm trying to highlight. No, in a good way. I mean, it's just, this is incredible numbers. Go ahead.

The second one from this year's class, Shamar Stewart, as expected. We knew this guy was going to work out. Right. And we'll get to how special the whole workout was. But as you see in this graphic, these are not like, oh, it's cute. We're talking about Miles Garrett, arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL the last several years, right? Up there, like to put them in the top three. It has to be.

However you want, the last several years. And Mario Williams, who's the number one overall pick? Pretty good company. So we got Miles Garrett with 41-inch vertical, Lannon Jackson, 4.5. 40 and a half from this year's class. Mario Williams, 40 and a half inch vertical. Shamar Stewart, 40 inch vertical from this year's class. That was one of those, like, okay, here we go.

It's unbelievable. Shamar Stewart, I don't know how much you want to get into this. We're going to jump around. He will be the case study for production versus tools. He will be the ultimate. I don't, listen, we're on the fly here. I'm texting graphics. Tucker, I don't know if we were able to build this one,

but I did a little work on this, okay? The case study was. Tron Walker. Yeah, I know. Right? And there was a certain GM that just absolutely loved the traits and all of that for the Jacksonville Jaguars and was going to take him over the best football player in that draft class, and Aidan Hutchinson. And I'm not saying Samar Stewart should be the number one overall pick, not by a long shot. But I am saying traits factor into this and pressures factor into this as much as sacks necessarily.

And I get it, all the people who want to make fun. And Pollock, I know you're out there. And I talked about it yesterday, going fishing, but reeling in nothing. I got it. And you're a pass rusher. And so pass rushers, there's a certain level of pride for getting home and the art of getting home. And that's absolutely factored into this. But what it also has to be factored in is the effort that you see on tape, the strength,

the explosiveness, the ability to stack, excellent run defender, the fact that he's getting pressures at a very high clip. and now he shows up here, Shamar Stewart, 6-5-267 pounds. Lean down a little bit. We were guessing he was going to be closer to like 275. I'm not super worried about it. It's 14 pounds between the Senior Bowl and the combine. He obviously lost a little weight to run faster.

I mean, a lot of players do it. I don't love it. I don't hate it. But I want to contextualize this. Shamar Stewart, 6-5. And you go back and look at Trayvon Walker, 6-5. Trayvon Walker is 272. Well, he's 267 here, but we know he's going to be in that same range.

Same range. Yep. 35 and a half inch arms for Walker. That was the big, I mean, it was just absurd. But still 34 and 1-8 inch for Shemar Stewart. Still very long arm. Excellent. Excellent.

Okay. Now let's get to the testing. Trouon Walker, 451. Shammar Stewart's a 460 unofficial. I don't know. 459. 459. So we're talking both in the four-fives.

158 is what I had for a 10-yard split. And by the way, the only sub-16 run today in the 10-yard splits, okay? And I'll get to that number in a minute, why that's so important. So 158 for Shamar, 154 for Trayvon Walker. Vertical. Everything's been a little slightly better for Trayvon, right? Except lower body explosion. We saw this on tape, man.

When I saw Trayvon, I saw strong, I saw, I saw stout, I saw all those things. I didn't necessarily see that like drive from ground up through. Generate power from the ground up through. I see it with Shamar, 40 inch vertical, 10, 11 broad, whereas it's just a 35, I say just a 35 and a half. A 35 and a half, which is outstanding, but it's not 40 inches. This is special. This is different. and a 10-3 broad, great, but it's not 10-11.

So unpack that. I mean, it's what we've been saying all along. If you want to know why, and you're right, we're not saying that he's the first overall pick in the strap, but if you want to know why a player whose production has been, I would say, in terms of stack production, which is overrated, we need to talk more about pressures and wins and all that. But in terms of sack production, it is very underwhelming for this player.

But if you want to know why NFL teams are interested and why he's going to go so early, it's because of these tools. And you hinted at it. It's very important. When we're watching film down in Mobile at the Senior Bowl, and this guy is throwing two Missouri offensive linemen around, like it's nothing on the same play, you do see it on tape. Maybe he doesn't get home to the quarterback, but you do see these traits on tape. He's not just someone who goes out and works well. It transfers to the tape. So that's an important part of the evaluation too.

So I get why it's a difficult evaluation in terms of the production versus the talent. But man, if you're a defensive line coach in the NFL, you are dying to get a chance to work with this kid because you see what you can unlock and what he could potentially become. I thought that it was fascinating. He didn't disappoint. I mean, we thought he could do this and then he went out and did it. And he went out and did it. And on a day where I remind you, and for different varying reasons, and the vast majority, like absolutely, understandable or out of control for a lot of these guys,

but it's still a group that didn't, that had a handful of guys that did not participate, including Abdul Carter, who we talked about at the top, obviously he couldn't. He just had learned that he has a stress fracture in his right foot and, like, the day became a disaster. He didn't even go through, by the way, he didn't even do the heights and weights and the measurements

because he was dealing with all of this, okay? So that's how, like, chaotic things have been for Abdul today. So an easy pass there. Jalen Walker, number two edge on a lot of teams board, on my board, did not work out from Georgia. Mikel Williams, number three edge on my board, did not work out. Shocking to me, by the way, considering that strength and conditioning program and the level of pride that they take in it, and I'm not knocking anyone for anything, and I understand the reasoning, but I'm just saying it was surprising because I want you to think. think back.

Like, who was it? We got, we got Davis, right? Unbelievable workout who really overshadowed Devante Wyatt that year. Yep. Okay. Jordan Davis and Devante Wyatt, it kind of started with, with this new regime of Georgia defensive talent, just every single studs who also had the workout numbers to back up the production that you saw on the field.

Trevon Walker, we just talked about, right? Oh, and Nolan Smith. Yeah. We're in like a four freaking four nine, you know? And so I was surprised that those guys weren't able to work out. And talk about compete level. Like you're getting at this senior bowl. How was the compete level for Schmar Stewart through the roof?

He's screaming in the stands. He's running around. How about on tape when they're, you know, they're up 50 in that game and he's running around. He's running around like it's a seven-point game. Some scouts would argue it was a lot of bluster at the senior ball. I'm just just about I understand but I want to make sure up here and compete like no one else did the same people I have conversations worth are watching and listening sometimes and I want to make sure that I'm representing what whatever what the whole is in terms of the league I think that was kind of his moment but I I you and I sat and watched the same tape in the same hotel room at the same time up 20 27 to 7 or whatever was and a up like 27 and 31 points, whatever it was, late in that game, and he's still going like its fourth quarter of the national championship against Missouri, yes.

So then he shows up here and other guys aren't competing whether they can't or whatever the reason is, but he took the opportunity to step into the spotlight and put on her show. So Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Mike Hill Williams, and Mike Green, considered by a lot of teams as the top four edges in this year's class, okay? Mike Green from Marshall, great senior bowl. I don't want to say weak because it was 48 hours. Great 48 hours of the senior bowl. Like Shamar, they decided to, as one scout said to me,

they graduated the senior ball on Wednesday of practice, and it was time to move on. Mike Green, tightness in his hamstring felt last night and decided not to work out. Take it for what it is, right? So what does that do? It creates opportunity, folks. Yeah?

There was opportunity today. And two guys right off the jump, pun intended, took advantage of it. with Shamar Stewart and Jackson, Landon Jackson from Arkansas, coming out with those vertical jumps that happened before the 40s. They were doing it before the 40s and then before the workouts. As the defensive tackle class was still working out, they were doing their jumps and all of a sudden it popped up on the screen, that graphic.

So I thought that that was absolutely, like that kind of stole the show, those two guys and what they were able to do. That there was one other player that I'm interested to see how you want to handle of the conversation surrounding him. Take it wherever you want, man. Tennessee Edge. Yeah. James Pierce.

Go. 447. 40. He had a 1-5-6-10 yards, so that might not have been official earlier, but he had a 1-5-6-10-yard, which is ridiculous to run the way he ran today. I thought he put on a show. I thought he looked great during on-field drills. There's going to be a lot of work to do in terms of some of the off-the-field stuff

and how it affects him. Yep. But in terms of his workout today, he's another guy I put on a show. It's interesting, and it's always a tricky situation. And I've learned over the years, like, until you absolutely know and you're in, and there's reports when you're in this situation and you have information that maybe if nobody else does, but you've triple checked it and all that, I just, I stay away. But I also have learned, like, we're not doing our job if we don't give a sense of what's going on for real. And the for real is Abdul Carter, outside of the injury today, is a clean prospect. Jalen Walker is one of like the all-time dogs in terms of football character, personal character,

just like the love of the game, showing up and doing all those things. Mikel Williams is not the vocal leader that Jalen Walker is. Jalen's the alpha, just so everyone understands, and that's fine. But Mikel is going to put in the work, and he wants to be great, and he's going to work to be great. he's not going to be the loudest voice in the room. And that's from, that's from digging. I know this because I know this, okay? There's information that we'll get to, and I don't want to make a big thing of it,

but James Pierce, there's going to be some stuff that scouts have to sort through, okay? And the same is true, and this we can, we're not reported, we can talk about because it's been reported, and Mike Green spoke openly about it, the Marshall Edge Rush, So these are two of the top five, four or five edge rushers, that there's some stuff that's got to be sorted through. But if you go and just do a quick Google search or look on social, you'll find that there have been multiple accusations of sexual assault in his past. That he vehemently denies.

I'm not aware of charges or how charges were dropped. But ultimately, he was open and talking about that so we can talk about it. And again, information that scouts are going to scouts in general, managers and more importantly at this point it starts with the scouts right and they the information funnels up then it becomes a security group former FBI guys within each or people i should say men and women inside NFL organizations um and they'll get to the bottom of what the real is and ultimately we'll we'll find out you know that the latest on draft day whether it affects their draft stock but those are going on and mike green now doesn't work out and it's kind of you know

not the most positive news coming out. So it's been kind of a sorted situation with the edge rushers this week. But focusing on the positive, like we got two absolute physical freaks that we saw, and then a third in Pierce running a 447, which is rare. I mean, you're talking, here's the thing with Pierce. All right? And I've said this before, but in a class where we've got Abdul Carter, who is with, what it is. He's the cream. Jalen Walker is an off-the-ball linebacker that's got a lot of work to do

in terms of proving that he can be that guy. And I want to get back to Jalen in a second. Don't let me forget with the comparisons and the percentiles. But Jalen's an undersized off-the-ball linebacker who's going to be an edge as well in the NFL and play that versatile role. Mikel Williams is a great physical specimen and is really good versus the run. Still very much developing, right? When you look at James Pierce, I want you to understand he's the second most complete prospect and player on the field of all these guys. Right. If he's totally clean and had he played maybe in a situation where he was playing more snaps,

I think the narrative would be different. I know the narrative would be different. This guy at the end of the day, while he's not the biggest, he's 605 too. It means he's over 6'5. He's 2.45. He's, you know, kind of got a linear frame, but room to add bulk to that frame. Shorter arms than ideal, but still okay, almost 33-inch arms. But he runs a 4-4-740-yard dash, and then I pop in the tape, and it's not just the speed around the edge.

Right. It's the outside in, inside out moves. It's the dip, the rip. It's a guy who has a plan as a pass rusher, knows how to get home. So when we're talking about Shamar Stewart, who hasn't had the production, but is more of a big, strong, physical guy. And then you compare this tape. Pierce, to me, is the second most complete pass rusher in this class.

He's bigger than Jalen. I don't know about you, but coming into the season, the Pierce grade was very comparable to Abdul Carter. Yes. Bill Carter was still making the transition, but you saw the upside. You saw the tools. He was moving from off the ball linebacker. to edge.

She had done some rushing, you know, in 2023, don't get me wrong. But now he was making the full-time move to edge. And the grades were very similar. So James Pierce was a guy. He had a pick six, I remember in 2023, where he dropped. And the way he moves, he could play off the ball. He can drop into coverage as well. These are both guys who are physically unique in terms of their tools.

So if he's clean, to me, he's, you know, the third edge in this class, maybe? Yeah. I just got officials. James Pierce, it was official 447. I said the only sub-160. Yeah. Was Stewart. Was Stewart at 158.

That is official. But the fastest and the other sub-160 was James Pierce at 156. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Bill Polion. 16-0 is a good man. Bill Polian and I had a lot of good conversations over the year, six-time executive of the year.

want about whatever you want to say. The guy did at the highest level and put together an organization that won a Super Bowl and is a wealth of knowledge. He was fascinating to talk to. Think about their undersized edge rushers, but the speed guys, right, especially on the turf. And we had a great conversation with Howie Roseman, and we're going to have that for you next week as part of our decision maker series. And he was talking about the importance of you. You've got an offense that's high-powered, and Bill Pollan had that with Peyton Manning and the offense of the Colts, and obviously how we built that through free agency a lot, and obviously drafting Jalen Hertz, you have to have edge rushers to close out games, and it's so critical, because teams are going to be playing from behind with you,

and you've got to have those guys. And so they did study after study that Colts did, and they made a decision. We are not going to draft a guy unless they run a sub-1. 60. Interesting. Right? Yeah. That 10-yard split of under 1.60 seconds signal to them in their research that they have a different level of speed that, and especially on the turf, he was saying too. Inside this dome here, right, Lucas Oil, it was the RCA dome back then, right? That that was critical. And so when I see these numbers and I see that, it's always in my brain who ran the 160 or faster. Who ran it? And the two guys that ran the faster.

Interestingly enough, James Pierce runs the faster time, one, one, five, six. But if you do the wodge, the weight adjusted. Right. With Shamar Stewart at 267, 667, 6'5, it's going to come out in favor of Shamar. Both numbers are phenomenal. Both numbers signal players that absolutely the number, the measurements, the times, the tests match up with a first round draft pick. that's what we learned with them today.

Yeah. Oregon's Jordan Birch, another guy who had a nice day. Okay, go ahead. 279 pounds, 33-inch arms. He had a 16-6, 6,6, not quite as good there, but ran a 4-6-9. And the way he moves, at that size, the way he moves in space, jumped out to me. He had on-field drills. He was one of the guys that stood out to me.

I mentioned before I wanted to get back to J-Lew Walker, and we're bouncing around. That's fine. Who cares? But to kind of close out this ring, again, if you look at my edge rankings, right, I've got Abdul Carter 1, Jalen Walker, too, along with Mike L. Williams, followed by James Pierce, Mike Green from Marshall, Shamar Stewart, okay? Jalen Walker is different in not a great way, but he's different than all those other guys because he's an off-the-ball linebacker who's vastly undersized by comparison and by the NFL

standard for an edge rusher, okay? Here's what's interesting. I don't know if we were able to make this graphic up. Jalen Walker, the percentiles. These aren't great things. His tape is fantastic. He's going to be a great NFL player. I'm certain of it because of the way he plays the game,

his motor, his love for the game, the leadership that he brings, and he has an elite set of skills in terms of changing direction and sticking his foot in the dirt. You always hear this about a running back and zone blocking. When he has to,

to change direction once he's gotten in the backfield, he has a sick ability to transition to redirect, like very few others I've ever seen. And then accelerate out of it and then accelerate out of it and get to the quarterback in a flesh. But the numbers are not for everybody in the league. No, they're not. No, I know. You're right.

And so it's going to be a scheme. Which why I think it's so interesting. It's going to be a scheme decision. Like he's not going to fit for every single team. At 6-1, 243 pounds with 32-inch arms, as an edge rusher, height is in the second percentile, weight is in the sixth percentile, and arm length is in the fifth percentile. You're talking bottom 10 percentile in all three of those.

Even as an off-the-ball linebacker, his height, weight, and speed are not great. His height at 6-1 is only 30th percentile. 70 percent of off-the-ball linebackers are taller than him. 37% have a bigger bill, or more bulk, more weight. And 63% have longer arms at off-the-ball linebacker. So that scares you, right? Then I bring Hassan Reddick into the mix. And that's the guy that you talk to anyone in the league.

General managers askouts every time they come in the office, show me how he's going to succeed. Show me the path. Give me the comparison, how he's going to succeed. and then the net follow-up is always, well, then tell me how he's going to fail. Well, the how he's going to succeed is Hassan Reddick. 604-1, 6.01, 6.01, sorry, 6.1.5. So only a half an inch difference height.

237. He was 6 pounds lighter at the same point in time at the combine. Okay? Arm length, nearly identical. 32 and 3 quarters versus 32. So if you're pounding the table, and I've been told by every producer, executive and person who's in charge of this show, don't pound the table. But if you're a scout pounding the table for this guy, you're going to, Hassan Redick is your example, right? Yeah, I mean, that's a good calm. But how many guys have there been like this who you felt were going to be, I know there's been players I've evaluated along the way who were outliers.

We'll call these guys outliers that I loved. I loved. And they didn't work out. That being said, I believe in Jalen Walker. I think I'm on board. But if you're, if I'm a GM and I'm playing devil's advocate, which I think all great GMs do when a scout comes into the room, hey man, for every one of these guys, there's 10 others that did washed out and didn't make it.

So it is, it is, it will give you reason for pause if you're going to spend a first round pick on a player whose numbers are, As Todd pointed out, I mean, not even lower 10, low 5, like 2%, 5%. We're talking about this is a significant benchmark for this player. Yep. Now, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth and come back and say, the reason you do believe in him is all the things that Todd's already mentioned when you watch on tape and his ability to get after the quarterback. I also think you look at guys who are a little bit lighter, a little bit smaller,

like Nick Benito from Denver. He's a guy who's a little bit taller, but the traditional of you have to be 265 to 270 pounds, 270 pounds, I think it's changing a little bit. I think people are able to go with lighter edge rushers. And the thing you like about Walker is you can use him in different ways. You can move him around. He doesn't necessarily have to come off the edge, though I do think he's going to do that a significant amount of the time in the NFL.

I think it helps because the game's changing. Yeah. And the game's changing in that you're in nickel and you're in dime personnel a hell of a lot more than you're in base if you were. Right. bases almost become nickel. Right. And with the amount of spread formations and the ability,

tempo to a certain degree, occasionally we see, you know, there's peaks in valleys with that. But trying to catch opponents stuck with their personnel on the field and trying to match up with different versatile weapons and all the chess pieces that are now used in the passing game. And with passing game becoming king over the last, a handful of years.

You've got to have guys on the field that can do multiple things. We talked about it, multiple. It's like, I told you a drinking game. If you find any defensive coordinator out there, any head coach is talking about, or any general manager, when they're talking about defensive players, you'd get drunk in the conversations you have

about defensive players talking about multiple. I need multiple. Does he allow me to be multiple? And a player like this allows you to be multiple. Yeah. And then you look at some of like the, you know, the NASCAR packages and all the different names, where guys are lining up

and the launch point as a pass rusher isn't always like all right wide nine pin your ear go it can be from a lot of different spots and he shows that on tape and simulated pressures that you see

time and time again these simulated pressures where you have six people walked up two drop four rush so you don't really have a blitz there Jalen Walker is excellent at that you if you see Jalen Walker coming off the edge you have to account for him and your pass protection, and the next thing you know, he drops.

And I'll go back to what you just said a few minutes ago. If you're building teams the way that we've discussed and the way we believe is the blueprint for a championship team, and you have an high-powered offense, and you need a player who can end a game with a sack and get to the quarterback and end that game, do you think that Jalen Walker's a closer? And if the answer is yes, then you believe that he's an early first round pick.

Prince Lee Uman-Mieland-Mieland. Sorry, Prince Lee Uman-Mieland. I didn't ignore what you said. I registered it all. I'm just trying to. No, we're all over the place. It's great. No, I know.

I'm intrigued by this guy. It's interesting because sometimes the numbers you're like, eh, I'm all right. Like six, six four and a half, 24 pounds, kind of the standard, a little bit leaner than than you like. Almost 34 inch arms, 33 and 7 eighth inches. Good, good arm length, right? So you like that line, and you know that he's probably going to play at like 250, 255. right? You look at the 40 right off the jump and you're like, eh, it's okay.

I'm just looking at it. The official came out at 472. Yeah, right. Mid, fine. Me. But he had a 162 in that 10-yard split. And that's one of the faster times. We talk about 160 being the elite.

1-60 or faster is the elite. So he's just off that, a tick off of that. So it's a faster start than it is a finish. Also, the jumps, he was third. So we talked about these, like, literally record-breaking, in the conversation of the best in the history, that's what I should say, not record-breaking. Up there in talking about the best vertical jumps for edge rush

are showing that lower-body explosion, which is so critical, in the history of the combine, dating back to 2003. Two of the top two guys this year in Landon Jackson and Shemar Stewart, We're in the top four dating back to 2003 with Miles Garrett and with Mario Williams. Well, number three on that list on both the vertical and the broad jump behind those top two guys was Uman Mieland. Good old Princeley. Yeah. You know I kind of like him.

I just kind of like this guy. 38-inch vertical and 10-6 broad jump. Those are outstanding. Flash the week of the senior ball. Yeah. He's 38 and a half tackles for loss. 25 and a half career sacks. Those are in his career.

Florida, the Ole Miss. Florida than Ole Miss. Yep. And I remember, too, in big moments, he and Ivy at points, but Uman Mielan in big moments this past season, big moments, fourth quarter needed. He was showing up. Right. And we talk about closers, right?

Yeah, and they're very different. I love Ivy because I love his power, but they're kind of a different style where Uman Miguel is going to win with speed and athletic ability. I don't want to say finesse. Because I don't think he's a finesse guy, but he wins with speed and athletic ability. That's one of the ways that that's the way he gets after the quarterback. So there are different players.

I think he's a classic three, four outside linebacker. Guy's going to go on day two and probably do real well for ever drafts him. Yeah, I thought he had a good day. Another guy that I just, I'm falling in love with. Who? Femi Ola Dejo, UCLA. You love him, man. Well, we talk about off-the-ball linebackers that can play.

And unlike Jalen Walker, who's in the lower percentiles, get the lights back on back in here. Look at Nick. Hard at work. Crawling around, making plays. Ola-day Joe, great story. We've touched on it before. I'm not going to go into great detail about it,

but this is a Florida state transfer that goes to UCLA, off-the-ball linebacker for a few years, finds a home at Edge Rusher this past year. Production is like, phew. Ascending player. Ascending player. You watch him at the Senior Bowl, and for all the alpha dogs there, he was the alpha.

No question. Vocally, no question. Between reps, working, like, just you can tell. You can tell the phonies, too. He ain't one of them. No, you can tell by the players, you're guys that are loud and, you know, put on your show, and then there are players that are loud on our show

and players gravitate to them. This was a guy who I thought was elevating other players at the Senior Bowl, picking them up, getting fired up about what they were doing, about what he was doing. I mean, it's hard to be, it's hard to win over teammates in 24 hours, 48 hours, and he definitely showed

that he could do that. It's also hard to do it in a 15-minute combine interview. And I'm telling you right now, like one of the names that keeps popping up. is is is is is is okay and what I love is when my phone goes dead on me all right what I love is that we talk about these off the ball linebackers that the transition right he's he looks the part he's over six three six oh three two two fifty nine carries it really well 30 through almost

thirty three and a half inch arm length fine and had he didn't run the 40 today but after killing it all week in the interviews and showing up a little bit bigger and stronger than, you know, in terms of sturdier build than we thought, he had a 36 and a half inch vertical, fourth best. So we get these top two like phenoms that are two of the top four best in, since 2003 at the combine. And the next two up are guys that are just are intriguing in terms of Uman Mielan and Olodejo. To put it in perspective, because we talk about this all the time, We do our measurables that matter, right? Yes.

And so we have all these numbers, we have all these numbers for defensive ends. So a vertical jump for a defensive end that's under 265 pounds that is considered outstanding is 36 inches, what he jumped. Yep. So when you hear, it's just important to keep all these numbers in perspective as much as you can because, again, like I said, this is a tornado of information. You're just trying to pull numbers. Everyone's heads are spinning. Just to keep it in respect, that's an outstanding number. So maybe it's not the 40 inches that.

Stewart jumped. It's still a great number. Two guys I'm going back to study tape on. Like, immediately. I mean, like, we have a reservation at 9 o'clock tonight. We might be watching after. I might bring this with me to dinner. Can I guess one?

Yes. Maryland's Fidel Diggs? No. It's Syracuse's Fidel Diggs. Oh, sorry, Syracuse's Fidel Dix. I got the wrong school. Last night, I... This is how bad it is.

Last night I yelled at you about a pronoun. And I was absolutely certain that it was That it was me and so I even tape on it from Syracuse But I had to double check tonight so it so it wasn't two nights in a row Then I made the same mistake because I could have sworn it was Savon Revel and it's Savon and it's Savon revel so my apologies to you and I apologize to the world To video digs and thank you by the way. I haven't said hello to anyone hi I haven't said hello to anyone hi I haven't said hello to anyone Hi, we appreciate you being here.

It's been, you welcome into our brains today, okay? Just trying to gather all this information. We got Abdul Carter, like, is he out for the rookie year to he's going to be fine and working out at his pro day and who's working out? It's been a fun day, exciting, a lot of energy, but I would be crazy and unappreciative not to say thank you for joining us tonight. And we'll be here again tomorrow night, 7 o'clock Eastern Time for the second day of workouts. Tomorrow will be the defensive backs. My goodness, that's going to be fun.

Yeah. Some real times. And we'll also, we'll get into the linebackers a little bit more because we're still getting information as it comes in now. So we'll kind of wrap up the linebackers tomorrow. We'll get into the defensive backs. And Saturday, we'll be back on for another show. We live 7 o'clock, if we confirm that. I think maybe from my hotel room because they're kicking us. They're kicking. No, Saturday. Saturday. Saturday for the big day, quarterbacks running backs wide receivers we're going to be somewhere I think in our hotel

we're going to be somewhere I think in our hotel if our hotel doesn't if our hotel doesn't put the kibosh on it we'll find somewhere in Indianapolis to do the show because they're going to wrap this whole thing up here on Radio Row or whatever they're calling it but thank you for joining us please subscribe like all the stuff that they tell me that I have to tell you to do

but we need it and we appreciate you doing So I don't even know where I was going. But, oh, the two guys I was going to get back to. And then I might have to watch tape tonight because I'm so excited to like, I really need to dig into these guys. Now that I've done the top 100 edge rushers, I didn't have in my top 100 two guys that had damn good workouts today. And one of them is Fidel Diggs. Nice. From Syracuse.

Got the school wrong with the name right. And the other is Tyler Barron, who I've watched. Yeah. And I like. A nice day. I didn't. And I haven't watched, Truth, have not studied his tape,

updated it since this summer. So I've got to go back to my report, kind of have a baseline for him, did not know this explosion was here. Let's start with Barron and we'll work back to Fidel Diggs. Yep. Barron, 6045-258. We're talking prototype, right?

Not elite, but prototype. What you think about when you think about a defensive end, an edge? 33 and an eighth-inch arms. solid, you know, not elite, but again, prototype. Big 10-inch hands. What stood out to me, the guy runs a 462, 40-yard dash, and he was one of only a handful.

We talked about the two guys who were sub-16. Yeah, one of only a handful of guys who ran a 10 split that was in that range. 16-1. 16-1. Yeah. Okay. And then you look at the vertical jump in the broad. He was over 30, you said 35 and a half.

Yeah. Okay. 35 and a half inch vertical and 10 one broad. Outstanding numbers. Yep. So let's go back and let's see what we got there. Right. Is he moving up in that day three range?

We know he's got tools. Then digs, six four, similar. 604.3, 257. Okay. So you're talking almost identical. One's 6045, the other is 604.3. One's 258, the other's 257. 133 in an eighth inch arm the other's 33 and three eighths now let's get to the 40s we're talking about 162 for for baron

digs ran a 457 folks talking about 161 for for baron in the 10 yard split digs ran a 160 right he's in that elite when I think about bill polion trying to get to sleep at night and I think about bill polian yelling at me it's got to be 160 or faster todd that that's he's there same exact broad jump by the way both 10-1 i think that's interesting really yeah and then they they they also showed up on the field you know you want to see how they move in the field those guys went out and killed it they you know not out of control under control they look quick they changed directions well they both had had nice days all right i think we covered anyone else you want to get to that that's a good almost everyone who worked out in the edge rushes right that's a good uh that was considered in our top one

that stood out in one way or another. Interior defensive line. I've sat here and I almost felt like a fraud, right? Because we've talked so much about how this could be the best class since 1992. I went and did the research today. I sent out an expost this morning because I was like, I keep saying it's one of the deepest classes ever. I've given perspective for running backs.

I haven't for the interior defensive line. So I went through it. I studied. I've got the database of all these drafts. Even when I was in high school when this. when 1992 happened. Right. But I've imported all of this information.

And I went through, and there's a few years where you see like 24 or 25, okay? It was 1992, and it was the only year over 30. You'd go back to 1992 to get a class that had over 30 interior defensive line taken. And that was like, that was Empton, sorry. It's crazy. Gilbert. You know, like McLaughton. I could see Gilbert right now.

Right? Yeah, that's funny. And I know we just totally sailed over. Yeah, there's a who? A lot of people in our audience's head. But it was a very, like, well-known class. And then the embem and the bust and this and, you know. But you have to go all the way back to there.

And this year we've got, we've got, talking about interior defensive line and 16 of them in my top 100. Okay. And some teams you talk to you, like, they've got 20, 25 starting grades. There's going to be over 30 interior defensive line drafted. So we've pumped it up. We've talked about Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, Michigan defensive tackles. Mason Graham in that top tier for me, top three prospect in this class. Grant, Walter Nolan, we've talked a lot about.

None of the three, those three top guys worked out, and it was frustrating. And Walter Nolan will work out at the Ole Miss Pro Day. But when the top guys don't work out, then it gives opportunity. And Derek Harmon had a good day, like all around. Derek Harmon did what you would expect from a late first or in Mention's mind, a third round pick. You almost got to find me. Nope. But he's 6.4.5. 313 pounds, long arms, almost 34.5 inch arm length, right? Yeah.

And he comes in. He runs a really good time for that size, 495, sub 5 second 40. 174 in the 10, but he didn't do the jumps, right? Right. And I don't have any of the other stuff. The results aren't official here with like the three cone in the shuttles. Right. So the opportunity was there for some other guys. It was an overwhelming start of the day.

It wasn't an overwhelming start. But there were some overwhelming workouts by guys that we didn't expect it to happen. I want to go through a couple things. I thought this was intriguing. Let me make note why the frustrations there. In addition to just, and I'm not trying to solo out or single out these top guys. in Graham and Grant and Nolan. Only 18 of the 40 interior defensive linemen,

one of the highest numbers we've ever seen invited to a combine. It's like you've decided that we're going to invite all these people to the party. It's the biggest party you're ever going to throw. Only 18 of the 40s show up and decide to do anything or have fun. Right. Right? Yeah. I'll come to the wedding, but I'm leaving that night.

The other 22 were sitting in the corner. Yeah. Sulking, complaining about the apps. The drinks weren't good enough. So 18 of the 40, only 18 of them wound up running the 40-yard dash. You know, I don't have the numbers for this, but I thought it was an interesting trend today. I don't remember this really being a thing. There's a lot of players that didn't run and then did the drills.

Yes. So it wasn't even they were trying to say... Admitting guilt. Yeah. There was no one. like there was no hiding it, no disguising it. They just didn't want to run the 40 today. So instead of just skipping everything, like you might want to do to say,

well, I couldn't do any of it. And it sucks. There was a lot of players that did that. And it sucks and it sucks. And it stinks and it sucks. One of my friends used to say it stinks and it sucks and it sucks and it does. But I also like, I can't stand when I tune in to shows or I listen to a podcast. And it's like these old guys are sitting there complaining that the young guys aren't

working out anymore. I'm just not, we're never going to be that, okay? Right. So, yeah, it sucked for a little while, and then you get over it, and you understand they're all going to work out, and it's not going to affect their draft result, unless they're hiding something that's going to negatively, eventually affect their draft result, right?

Right. But at the end of the day, there were some really intriguing things that came out. I thought it was interesting. We had a lot of long-armed interior defensive linemen. Yeah. Defensive tackles, I don't know if we were able to make this graphic, Tucker, but there were some defensive tackles with, 35 inch arm length.

You don't see a whole lot of that. Josh Farmer, Florida State, Vernon Broughton from Texas, and Yaya Black from Iowa. Okay. Other notable guys that had long arms, 34 inches or longer. Derek Harmon, 34 and 3.8s. Okay. Darius Alexander, we'll get to him in a minute from Toledo, rising, 34 inches. Alfred Collins, Monster Year.

Two first rounders go off the NFL a year ago. He's got one year to shot. and he shines. 34 and 5 eighths inch arm. Sorry, 34 and 5 eighths inch of an arm. So talking about a bunch of guys there were long arms, interior defensive linemen. That stood out to me.

And then I just thought a few guys were absolute standouts. Okay. Again, go back and watch the tape. And I'll let you talk about him more, but Jared Harrison Hunt from SMU. I know you kept carrying on, but he really stood out to me his movement skills, carrying his weight. He ran the third fastest miles per hour on the 10-yard split of the interior defensive lineman, good vertical jump 32.

It was just a complete workout. 487 was his... 486. 486 then was his official. What did you see from him? I just, I mean, he's running, and I turned to you. We're in the hotel room. We're watching.

Oh, yeah. And he's running the 40, and I'm like, yeah, that's great. What is he, 270, 275? And then I see him on the field and he's moving around. This guy's got to be 275 tops. And then you pull it up and he's 290. And people, I don't know if people realize how good that SMU pass rush and that defensive line was. I mean, we always talk about the quarterback.

And Breschard Smith, the running back. We talk about, you know, that offense. They spur it out. They were electric. That defensive line was really good. Elijah Roberts, the guy, he was 295 today. He's another edge to keep an eye on. This guy could, Harrison Hunt,

get after the quarterback. And with the workout he had today, I think it, you know, it turned some heads and he's, he's someone who definitely helped himself today. Because again, when you're looking at these players, and as long as we've been doing it, you get a good feel for body types and how this guy's moving. And he just looked like, he looked more like an edge than a defensive tackle, and then at 290 pounds to just to run that well. He just had a great day. He did. And I'm intrigued now to go back and study him. You always hear, well, I'm going to go back and study. He's going to make, that makes me go back to study the table.

The reason why is, because you, you almost view it in a different lens. Right. Okay, so that's there. That's in him. Right. Did I miss something? Now I know he has that explosiveness. Are there little things I'm not picking up on?

Maybe you pick up on a moment where you're like, oh, I see it there more. So it is, like, you know, so I'm just interested to go back and study his tape. and study him more because again, like, this process is about getting the top 100, top 150, and now going back and really grinding from this point until I like to have all the evaluations done and in the books first week in April. Every year, that's been our process. I know, trust me. I know, and you get nervous. And I do too. I just, you know. But we talked about the 10-yard split on Jared Harrison Hunt. 169.

169. There were only two. We talked about the 1-60 being that, that, that, line of magic for pass rushers, edge rushers. Well, sub-1-7s are also outstanding for defensive tackles. I think it's more important the 10-yard split for an edge. But if you're looking at what the kind of the number is for outstanding, anything 1-7 or faster. Only two guys from this class ran a sub-17 10-yard split. That's Harrison Hunt.

And that's Tyrion Ingram Dawkins from Georgia. What a day. Yeah, man. What a day. Like we know about Stackhouse. We know about Jalen Walker. We know about Mikel Williams. One hour, guys, until our reservation.

James, guys, James Beard nominee where we're going tonight. We'll get to St. Elmo's, I promise. We'll get the cocktail sauce, Saturday night, all the thing. But like tonight I'm taking you on a little ride, okay? All right. Tyrion Ingram Dockon. 36 inch vertical, 10-4 broad jump, second fastest. I love how NextGen, our buddies at NextGen, getting more and more involved with the combine.

Yeah. We've spent a lot of time building a database and a lot of exciting stuff to do in the future. But they've got this thing now where they're in the 10-yard split, they're monitoring the fastest 10-spit. He had the second fastest. The third fastest was Harrison Hunt. The second fastest was at 16.8 miles per hour was Ingram Dawkins. It was an awesome workout. Yeah.

I don't know what else to add to it. I mean, he put up all those numbers. And again, you watch for what they do on the field. And, you know, I think that Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL network, I saw it too, but he brought it up in the broadcast of you look at how flat his stance was. Sometimes you just get a feel for how athletic guys are with the way they line up and how easy it is for them to bend and just comfortably get down on the ground, how flat his back was, how well he bends.

And, I mean, he just, he checked every box that he could have checked today. Let me take you through my interior defensive linemen rankings, okay? I know yours are slightly different, but a lot of the same names, let's say, okay? Graham, Grant, and Nolan, we already talked a lot about. Derek Harmon from Oregon, we talked about. Darius Alexander, really good workout today. We can go through the numbers. You can find them online.

The things, it's 603-7, 305 pounds, 34-inch, 495, unofficial. I really like to, I got notes about his work. Good dip, corners welled, really good in the bags, all of that. Alexander is absolutely rising and is a player that we're going to see. I firmly believe he's going to be a top 50 pick. And there are some people I talk about, talk to her like, I don't know if he was sneaking late first, but like could be, you know what I mean? So like he is skyrocketing.

Alexander is like one of the absolute stories of the pre-draft process. Another Toledo kid. It's awesome. Toledo kid, remember the last Toledo kid who had an awesome pre-draft? He did all right. Last year, just won a Super Bowl as a starting corner. Yeah. You know?

So like, I'm telling you this guy is different when you watch his tape. And I think everyone got caught on to it at the Senior Bowl where he was dumb. prominent. Right. Right. And now you're looking at this workout that was awesome on a day where a lot of the top guys didn't work out. My point being this opportunity that's here, right? Top three guys don't work out. Derek Harmon had a solid day. Alexander's next up. Knocked it out of the park. Wasn't like exceptional, but was just really damn good across the board. Other guys that are in that next sort of tier, I thought the standouts to me were Aeneas Peebles. and the other guy who's in who's in my top 15. Normally you're like, oh, he's their 15th best interior defensive line

and he's like late day three. Now, Ty Robinson, I've got 74 grade on. That's equivalent to like third round, 87th overall. Okay? He had an awesome workout. Yeah. Those two go. Like, I don't know.

People's in Robinson. You take it anywhere you want to go. So with Robinson, because I just, when I watch his tape, I was not surprised that he worked out well because when I watched his tape and I watched him at the Senior Bowl I kept saying myself, man, I don't think people realize

how well he moves and how fast he closes, how quick he is, how disruptive he is. I love the way he uses his hands on tape. I was surprised to see him run a 48340. I didn't think he would work out well. I didn't think he would work out this well. He had a day.

And these people, by the way, we're talking about another player that, you know, again, draft starts a mobile, right? Needless people was another player. I remember the first day, he's just living in the backfield at the first day of the Senior Bowl. So this is another guy. I mean, this class is ridiculous.

Another guy who's just killing the pre-draft process. I'm surprised there's one player you didn't bring up because I thought he is just, I know he didn't run, and I know he doesn't, he's not the biggest guy and all this. But Norman Lott from Tennessee. It's just, he's one of those guys that I feel like maybe, Maybe he's flying under the radar? I don't know.

Maybe because it's the depth of class. No, he is. He is. I've been screaming about him since, since, like, late in the season. And when you watch, again, he had a 31.5 inch vertical, 9-5 broad. He's not going to blow you away with any of that.

He's not tall. He's sub-300 pounds, but because he's not tall in the way he carries that weight, he's got a good frame. I like his frame. He's got that low center of gravity. But watch the on-the-field drills with that guy and how under control he is with the way he controls his body,

the way he changes direction. I think he's the six-best defensive attack on this class. To me, it's... And I'm fighting not to bring him up even higher. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah. And again, another guy that was at the Senior Bowl who performed Bowl. I will say this.

One of the guys, you know, I talked about it earlier, one of the guys that did not run but did work out was Ohio State's High League Williams. Oh, he looked good. I mean, he was... I forget, I don't even know where the weight is. I think it was 322 pounds. I got it right here. 322 pounds.

The 2ndi Williams was 6.07, just about 6.3. 334 pounds. 334 pounds. Give me a break. He had DnPs across the board and do one workout thing except the position drills. And then we're watching the position drills and we're both looking at each other. Yeah, he's a dude. 334 pounds and he moves like that?

Yeah. It's he's going to be, I mean, he's been one of those guys that, at least on my board, in and out of the first round all year, in and out of the first round. When I look at the way he moves, if he goes to his pro-de, and I hope he runs, I hope he has a decent time, but he's a guy that I wouldn't be surprised if he snuck into the late first round,

and I think it's a top 50 guy. I just look at these, I keep, this is what happens, right? There's just workouts, keep them in perspective. Everyone calm down. Got it, I'm calm.

I don't seem like I'm calm, but I'm pretty calm. This is calm from. I got alarms going off. I can't stop thinking about dinner tonight. James Beard, table for seven. I got lists everywhere, notes,

but I'm calm. But what? When I start to look at these top lists and I see the same names and they're not the names, and that's why I just went through that list of the top. Were we able to get that interior defensive line in the top? Let's throw that up again. I want you to look at the – these are the guys in my top 100, and the rankings are not even – like I've updated them, but it's the same names, okay?

Not in those rankings are Tyrion Ingram Dawkins, not in those rank – in those – rankings Javari Ritzie from North Carolina not in those rankings is is Biggers, Zeke Biggers Georgia Tech not in the bottom towards the bottom of those rankings is Ty Robinson from Nebraska well we have another graphic here and go go to your your measurements that matter defense attack notes that you have we put these we update these every year I even have them in red right Yep. The number one measurement that matters for interior defensive linemen is what?

Vertical jump. Okay. And what is considered outstanding? 33. Okay, let me give you another number beyond that. 33 and a half inches on a vertical jump. Only 25 guys have done it here at the Combine since 2008. 25 defensive.

Interior defensive. Defer defensive tackles. Got it. So that's a 16-year span. Crazy. Okay? 16 years is only 20. 25 guys who have done it. This year we had four who jumped 33 and a half or higher.

And these are not the names we expect. Right. Ty Robinson is the only one on that list that is in my top 100. And he was at the lowest 33.5 inch. Just above him was Zeke Biggers, 34 and a half. Just above him was Ritzie. Javari Ritzie, 35 and a half. And just above him was the guy, I mean, quite honestly, stole the show today.

Tyrion Ingram Dawkins from the interior defensive lineman. If you're saying, okay, who won the combine for the interior defensive lineman, it's got to be Ingram Dawkins. Yeah. Let me give you another list. By the way, Zeke Biggers is 321 pounds. 321 pounds with that vertical jump. Shee.

Is he really? Yes. I thought he was like 310. Nope. 605-4, 321 pounds. Almost 35-inch arm length. Yeah, I mean, come on. Yeah.

We're in a 541, 541, sorry. 541 would be a disaster. 514. Yeah, so that lower body explosion. It's just something to keep in mind. I'm not saying, but let's throw up the other list if we have it. The next gen list of the miles per hour, 10 yards split, fastest miles per hour reach in the 10 yard split among the defensive line.

Let's notice some of those names. names at the bottom. Anias Peebles, top 100, talked a lot about them, Virginia Tech, three technique, get up the field. You expected that number. Darius Alexander, I'm talking about top 50 pick now. Yep. Toledo, just talked about him. Three technique, rush off the edge as well, can do a lot of different things. Athlete, we see it, carries the weight well, expected that number. But then the top three guys. Ty Robinson's the number one in that list. Again, 15th on my interior defensive lineman group and I like them but he ran

1698 miles per hour is the fastest on the 10 yard split in the next gen for miles per hour and then the two names that we talked about earlier there's like every list you come up with Tyrion Ingram Dawkins number two on that list 16.8 Jared Harrison Hunt

SMU third on the list so so now we have to go back and we've isolated some names with Harrison Hunt SMU, Ingram Dawkins at defensive tackle. At Edge, we talked about it before. Tyler Barron, Miami, Fidel Diggs. Numbers that pop that make you say, all right, these are the four guys,

I've got to go back and I've got to watch tape on because the numbers don't match up with what the seemingly can, you know, the thought is of them as players. Day three guys. And if nothing else, this is certainly going to help me break some clusters. on day three. What about my guy? Who? CJ West. I left it free. What about my guy? 316 pounds. How how tall was he? 6.1 I think. Short arms. Yeah. 316 pounds. Okay. Why do you have to get negative?

Let's keep it positive. 316 pounds, 4-9, 540, 1-7-310 yard and again, not in that 33-5 inch group for the vertical jump, but he still hit the 33-inch mark, which is outstanding, for a defensive tackle. And when we talk about explosiveness, again, does it translate to the tape? Are we just watching a guy who's really good at working out? Someone who trained very well for the combine. He's a good athlete, but when he gets on the pads

and he goes out and plays, it doesn't show up. Well, C.J. West, yeah, he might have short arms, but that explosive shows up every time he puts the pads on. It does. Unfortunately, I got caught looking at the guy right above him. Deion Walker, or Deon Walker, so. He's massive. He just, he didn't work out at all.

25 inch vertical, 8 inch, 8-8-8 broad jump. He's an interesting player. He's an interesting player. Can he be an Eric Armstead or DeForest Buckner? It's very hard to be that tall and play interior defensive line. Yeah, he's tough because he, like, he flashes. And a guy like that shouldn't move the way he moves sometimes, but he wants to be a three technique and not a, not a,

or an edge, yeah, a gap holder. He does play outside. their scheme. I want to see my bar, Tonka, Tonka did all right. Tonka Hemingway is my sleeper. I know. Because I keep watching, I got off the plane. Where was it, Mobile?

Mobile, yeah. What did I say? You had two things to say to me, getting off the plane. One was, why doesn't anyone, why isn't anyone higher on Tonka Hemingway? Every time I see him, he's flashing quick hands, athletic, making plays. And also, your guy, number seven, the safety. Some things to think about. You know, is he always, is he always around the ball?

is he is he always aggressive which i only bring up because you just love to give me a hard time about i actually remember what i said i said you must watch four games on the way down oh i did i did because i've watched one i'm like i don't understand like why i got yeah i love the other guy i love tj i love sanders but but there's something about this hemingway like he's just he's making plays he's i just like his effort yeah and his workout wasn't bad i got off the plane i walked up to you earmuffs and I just looked you in the eye. I'll never forget. I don't know why I said it, but I was like, I was kind of annoyed.

I was like, fuck's wrong with him in the way. And you're like, what, what? And you thought I was like, I was like, I was like, is something wrong that you get hurt? I'm like, no, fuck, what's wrong with him? Like, why not him? So I just, I like his tape, but let's go through his workout real quick. And this is just purely to appease me.

Almost 6-3, 284, 33-inch arm, solid, did not do anything. but the jump 32-inch vertical 9-4 broad. So, all right, stay under the radar, Tonka. Yeah? Stay under the radar. Yeah. Linebackers, real quick. Let's go through it.

We don't have a lot. I mean, I'm literally looking over. They just finished up the 40s. We'll see if we can get some of that. But we'll come back tomorrow, and we have plenty of time to digest all of this stuff. I did think a couple things were interesting. First of all, we talked about the Jalen Walker stuff, right? with him as an off-the-ball linebacker.

Jahad Campbell. I'm excited to see if we can get his workout numbers. If we don't tonight, we'll get him tomorrow. I think four or five two? Here he is. Yeah, man. 6-3, 6027, 235, 32-and-a-half-inch arms,

which is long for an outside backer. That's really good. Not elite, but it's good. 153 in the 10-yard split. 153. And the reason I point to that is, and we just talked about the edge rushes and all that, he's an off-the-ball linebacker, but what part of his appeal is his ability to rush up the edge as well. He's got some hybrid in him.

Yeah. And I can promise you this, talking to guys in the NFL, they're looking at him as another match-up piece counter, if you will, a chess piece on the defensive side. Like, yeah, okay, you can do that with Jalen Walker, but I can also do that with Campbell. Yeah. Okay. And so I was expecting a big day and we don't have all the results in. Let's see. Yeah, 10. 10-7 broad jump. He didn't do the vertical, but 10-7 broad jump. The 40 isn't official yet, but he ran a 452. Yeah. I mean, the guy's like, like almost clipping a 4-4 or something, you know? Yeah. He's right there. So just exceptional. I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised because his miles per hour is 22.6.

I wouldn't be surprised at that 4-5-2 moving to the high 4-4. Did you get the miles per hour? Yeah, 22.62. Is that the fastest? Let me see. If we can get that to sword fast enough, that can't be. Yeah. You're useless.

Thank you. I'm joking. I appreciate that. No, I said, yeah, because I had the same problem. Sometimes when you go to sword, like, it's just going to need a little time. Swessinger, UCLA. Yeah. Didn't run.

I didn't expect that. I heard he was going to work out. Six, two and a half, 242 pounds. He's a guy who's moving up. You talk to a lot of people in the league. Second best vertical jump. Didn't do anything else, so. Interesting.

I literally, like, over over. Or the results haven't populated? No, DNPs. Okay. So, but 39.5 inch vertical was this, was the second best. Teddy Buchanan from Cal, 40-inch, vertical. Wow. Teddy Buchanan from Cal 6461 unofficial. Teddy Buchanan from Cal 33 and a half, no, sorry, 40 inch vertical, 10, 5 broad. East West Shrine game had a really good week. 6-2-233. Another guy we're going to have to keep an eye on, just first glance here.

Eugene Asante, linebacker from Auburn, 448 on official 152. 10-yard split. How about Danny Stutzman being done with a disrespect? 452-155. Yep. Some interesting that these linebackers had a good day. Yeah, I can't wait to get in this later. Chris Paul just average 465 undersized linebacker. Thought he would run a little faster.

He's faster on tape. London, smell London. Small London. 602-22-24. He's dropped. Some weight to get faster. We're in a 458 though. 152.

So we had some fast time, some good jumps in this linebacker group. So Swessinger didn't, I thought to me Campbell and Swettinger were going to be the stories today. Campbell was a story. Swessinger. Maybe not for the right reasons. But the 39 and a half inch vertical, though. The one thing he did, at least he did it at an unbelievable level. His tape and his production this year were awesome.

Oh, here's my guy. Sleeper linebacker this year, folks. Maybe it was that flight down to Mobile And I was in a mood, good or bad But the two guys that popped to me The most in the tapes that I watch Who's 17? Who's 17? 17.

Demetrius Knight, Jr. Another guy. What's wrong with Hemingway and Who's 17? He's like, look at my notes. Look at my notes. Who's 17? Because I didn't, I didn't work. We didn't have internet on the floor.

Right, yeah. I couldn't double check. I needed to know, is that him? And it was him. 6015, 235, 235, Demetrius Knight, great week at the senior ball. Absolute, just dog. Flies, like everything he hits, explodes.

Right. Right. 4-5-8-40, 1-5-8-10. Good numbers. So, all right. I guess that's it for now, huh? Good, all right, right? Yeah.

It always feels, I mean, when you're sitting here, and it just feels scrambled. Yeah, we like to prep. We like to be, we like things buttoned up a little bit more than this allowed. for it. Yeah, but I think it's good for us. I think it's like therapy almost. Yeah. You have to just leave it all. Let it go. We can come back tomorrow and finish it up. Close your computer. Yep. We'll be back tomorrow. 7 p.m. Eastern time. Thank you. Yeah. When Mention is saying thank you,

you know we're appreciative. Never said, no. 7 p.m. tomorrow, we appreciate everyone being here. I cannot wait for the corners. I've already planted my flag in Jada, Barron. Don't need him to run well. We can have all the discussions and fights about that tomorrow night. Don't need them to run well. Do need them to run faster than the 4-5-8 we saw from Brian Branch. Or else there's going to be a lot of defending. Can't have a defensive back in your top 10.

Running a 4-5-8, right, Todd? So I don't think he's going to run that. I'm not putting the whammy on him. I'm just saying we're going to get some answers tomorrow. And there's no position, I'm telling you, no position that's affected more. when it comes to draft, then the cornerbacks and what they run. And it's not just the 40, but that is like the last standing position where it really matters as much as the media hypes it up.

Yeah. Can you combine that with the arm length and the 40-yard dash? And that becomes a huge critical factor in the evaluation of the cornerbacks, and we're going to be back here tomorrow, 7 p.m., breaking it all down. And in between, we're going to send some clips overnight. Hopefully, just stay involved. We're really excited about the next couple of days. And then on Saturday, we're right back at at 7 p.m.

Again, live show, third or fourth of four live shows here from the combine. And then on Monday, we're going to fly back on Sunday. Monday, we're going to have a review show. We're going to go through the whole thing for you. So busy week, we're excited. Thanks for being here. Now it's time to go. We've got to feed the big fellow, man.

James Beard. All right. Love you guys. Thank you. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in D. G7777. O T-visiting help.

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