The McShay Show - Day Six From the Combine: Carnell Tate, Jeremiyah Love, Taylen Green, and more

Episode Date: March 1, 2026

Welcome to The McShay Show! Todd and Muench react to Carnell Tate, Jeremiyah Love, Taylen Green and the biggest standouts from the QB, RB, and WR class measurables and combine performances. Then, they’re joined by Colts GM Chris Ballard, who discusses the difficulty in trying to replace Andrew Luck, his path to becoming an NFL executive, and more.0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!2:00 NFL Combine coverage: day six2:25 Evaluating the combine WR Class4:15 Reacting to Carnell Tate's measurables and performance14:45 Takeaways from the WR groups38:25 Evaluating the combine QB Class52:50 Recapping our 2026 combine coverage56:40 Evaluating the combine RB prospects1:09:45 Colts GM Chris Ballard joins the show1:10:20 Chris's journey to becoming an NFL executive1:24:30 Ballard's talent-evaluating style and principles1:27:20 Evaluating the quarterback position1:32:45 NFL increases the salary cap over $300 millionLearn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.comThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve Muench and Chris BallardProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Abou Kamara Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Big guys running fast. That was the theme on Saturday from the NFL scouting combine as the offensive skill position player workouts are in the books. We also have got a great interview for you and Chris Baller, the GM from the Indianapolis Colts, in just 54 days until the NFL draft. I think you're feeling better, but Mitch, you good? I'm great, man. Tucker, roll that beat.

Wide receivers, running backs, quarterbacks, all worked out on Saturday. It's always the most fun day at the combine, right? Let's get the, I don't know, it's not the biggest news is you look at downtown Indianapolis, right outside of our hotel, as you make your way towards Lucas Oil. It's been a fun week. I think you're probably excited to get home,

maybe get nursed up by Iris a little bit, but Indianapolis is going to miss you. And honestly, today was a lot of fun. Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes next,

taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four-wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list at Scout Motors.com, just like I just did. Concept vehicles, not available for sale, features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase.

Visit scout motors.com for details. It was interesting in that I think a lot of the best performances came from guys that we expected to work out well, but they kind of blew our socks off with what they did. It's kind of a theme here, right? And then some of the elite guys either didn't work out or didn't put up the biggest numbers. Now, Jeremiah Love is excluded, and we'll get to the running backs in a little while. I want to start with the wide receivers. I kind of lumped this group into three categories, okay?

There were the four, if you will, but really, truly three to start this thing out. There was the top three, and that's Carnell Tate, Mackay Lemon, Jordan Tyson, Ohio State, U.S.C., Arizona State, respectively, okay? Those are the top three on our boards. They're the top three on our boards. Correct me if I'm wrong. Nope. And then there's the second group of big wide receivers, the X's big, you know, X wide receivers, or maybe even big Z flankers, right? And that's Denzel Boston, as you see there, from Washington.

I think we've, WSU, but it's from Washington. Malachi Fields, Chris Brazzled II from Tennessee, Ted Hurst from Georgia State, Chris Bell from Louisville, and Elijah Surratt from Indiana. Then we've got this third group, which are more your Z flanker slots. I don't want to say undersized because even you start with Omar Cooper. He's just over six feet, 196. But these are the guys that aren't checking in at 6-2 and above. And, you know, Casey Concepcion, Zachariah Branch, Antonio Williams, Jeremy Bernard, Dionne Burks. Then there are also this fourth group that we'll get to at the end of guys that maybe weren't in our top 15 receivers that we knew we're going to work out well.

but like now you got to go back and check the tape. Yep. But let's start at the top with that group I talked about. Jordan Tyson did not run or jump. Right. Mackay Lemon did not run or jump. Did some on the field stuff look pretty good. Yep.

The only result we got from those top three in terms of the 40, short shuttle, three cone, vertical, broad, all those, the testing. that the wide receivers and all these players have done was from Carnell Tate. Right. And what's interesting is I think because he's an Ohio State receiver and because these Ohio State receivers that we think have good speed but not elite speed sometimes come out and just blow the doors off of this thing. And sometimes the guys who don't have great speed wait until the pro day

and then they go run there and everyone likes to joke in the league and I don't think it's really the case anymore, but it's like a 39-yard downhill 40 at Ohio's. State because they always run these unbelievable times. The fact of the matter is, they just train really well, and they're a bunch of the elite athletes, and that's what it is. So when Carnell Tate said, you know what, I'm going to go, I'm going to work out in the position drills, I'm not going to do the jumps and the shuttles and all the other things,

but I am running a 40 here in Indy. And then you add to the fact that we've had just about every group so far this year, starting with the defensive linemen, to the linebackers, to the defensive backs. to the tight ends, and maybe the running backs, it was close, all were the fastest group in the history of the combine. So we're all like, here we go, Carnal Tate. It's going to be, is it going to be a three after that four point, or is it going to be a four with like a one or a two, right?

Yeah. And then he comes out and runs a four-five-four. How do you feel about it? He ran a four-five-four in that first run, and even, and I noticed the same thing that DJ and and Rich Eisen, and I forget which GM was in, oh, it was Brandon Bean, I think, was in, they were all like, oh, he kind of looked like he got off kilter with his first four or five steps.

So he was going to run a second one. So, all right, it'll be fine. He'll run the four-fours. Runs a four-five-four. So he was a four-five-four guy, right? And so everyone's kind of quiet about it. And Bean had the great line, like, yeah, he's kind of slow, man. I don't know, you know.

And I promise you, as the teams that's drafting towards the end of the first round and is desperately needing a wide receiver. And it was perfect comedic timing. Right. But it's kind of, it's the shared sentiment in the league. Like, I hope people knock them for that. I would love for people to think he's slow. Exactly.

I think people, because we got so used to with Sunny Stiles and Arvel Reese running the times they did and watching Kenyon Sadiq and Eli Stowers, like all the top, and then earlier in the day, Jeremiah Love comes out and runs what, a 4-3-4-36, 4-3-6, second-best in the class at 212 pounds or whatever he was, and we'll get to Jeremiah Love stuff later. We got kind of comfortable with, oh, the best guy's going to run somewhere in the 4-3s or 4-4s, right? Yeah. And he didn't. I don't care either.

No, no. I want to give you this list. You're ready? Go ahead. These are some similar guys in the league that have, that similar guys. in terms of stature, right? Bigger receivers. And this is what they've run.

And I think you know these names. C.D. Lamb, 450. Devante Adams, 456. Hopkins, 457. T. Higgins, 459. Keenan Allen, 458. I just, I think everyone in the league is hoping that a team is like, we're just not sure on him

and let him fall to us. because it's just it's asinine to think that that 40-yard dash. I told you, 4-5-5 is the number that just about everyone in the league, you know, that's really, really good runs at or under. And it's still not an excluding number, right? No. So if you're waking up on Sunday expecting, and maybe there will be people that come out and be like, this really hurts him, you know, all of a sudden, Mackay Lemon,

just opens the door and Jordan Tyson or these wide receivers aren't it. It's just not the deal in the league. Like, people in the league just don't worry about that number at all. And he'll go run at the pro day and he'll probably get low four-fives or five, four-fours. And you know what? Maybe he won't run in the pro day. Maybe he'll just stand on that. Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, the information he'll get back from people in the league is, hey, man, we don't care. Maybe you shouldn't, like, maybe you shouldn't be training for 40 anymore. Like, let's start working on all the things you need to be working on for the league. Yeah, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth for a second. The 10-yard split it in love. 161 is a little high. But I just, I'm sorry.

4-5-3 is just not a bad time. And two years ago, when we were talking about this kid, maybe when he was going to come out, why didn't he come out last year? It was a little bit of like, there were some whispers that he was speed deficient, that he was going to run a high number that it wasn't going to be...

In the 4-6s. Yeah. I had heard 4-6s. He ran a 4-5-3 today. He answered every question you had about his speed. In my mind, did he blow you away? No, but he answered. Was it officially a 453 or 453?

453 official. So 453 official? Yeah, that's right. It was 454 unofficial. And then when it came out official, it's 4.5. And by the way, of all the big dogs here, only one who did it. Only one who did it.

Yeah. And he didn't do the, I don't think he did the drills, but he's the only one who ran. And I also want to remind people in talking to executives in the league, like directors, GMs, he was at like the top of the list in terms of interviews, football. And this isn't like, oh, we like. the guy. He's really nice. He has a strong handshake. Now, this is like putting him on, you know, talking to him about plays, regurgitation, talking to him about football things, concepts,

what he's reading in defense is going back through some plays that he ran. They love his football intelligence and that's not surprising because it's just about every Ohio State receiver comes out of there. And it's also not surprising because Brian Hartline does a better job, who's now moved on as the head coach at UCF, of developing wide receivers than any coach, maybe in the history of college football. Okay? And his track record proves that. So they all come to the league and they're all ready.

Yep. And I think there's no difference with Tarnel Tate. Now, the only thing I'll say to this is it does go back to the point that I made yesterday and I made in the newsletter and check out the newsletter if you can. It's the McShay report, Google it. Apparently we've got like a 20% off, 30% of it. off sliding scale deal going on, very short period of time. But Google it, subscribe.

And we've got a lot of information on Sunday morning. If you're watching this late Saturday night, then great. If you're watching Sunday morning like most people that are sane and aren't waiting up until, you know. Whatever hour. Yeah. That report is out with some more buzz and news that I've been hearing, especially in the quarterback position, which I think is some intriguing stuff that you might want to get

involved with. But the only thing that I talked about yesterday when it came to like the real talk in the NFL was this year it's even more so than what the media thinks. There are people in the league having real conversations

in their rooms, Steve, about hey, we got a running back name love, a linebacker named Stiles, a safety name downs, and a guard name I own. I won't a?

I won't a. I won't. That are maybe the four best players in this draft. And there's some really, really good receivers, but they're deep at receiver. And there's some really, really good edge rushers like David Bailey. Like Arvel Reese now teams are considering basically as an edge, like a Rubin Bain. But they're not in that elite class. We get some really good offensive tackles like Maui Noah and Fano.

and Freeling, right? But they're not elite elite. So are we just going to, are we just going to take the best player? Because I talked to a couple different GMs, general managers, the guy's making the final call. And both times, two different times out of multiple conversations we've had together or I've had privately,

the phrase, am I going to pass on a Hall of Famer? and I think they view it and Hall of Famers can come from anywhere in the draft. We've seen that. But when you grade a guy up there, the goal is I'm drafting a Hall of Famer. And so I think the only thing

you start to weigh in is when you talk about those four other guys and maybe if you want to lump Reese in there as well, am I going to pass on a Hall of Famer for a wide receiver who's really, really, really good but maybe he doesn't, like, didn't come in here and do Calvin Johnson stuff. You know, that's the only thing I'd say. Right.

When we talked about this, I feel like a month. And specifically with like the Titans in 4 and the Giants at 5. That's where I'm getting in the nitty-gritty of all this. If Carnot, if Carnel Tate at his size with his tape, with his development, with his pedigree, where he comes from, came out and did run a 4-39 or a 4-4-1. We'd have a different conversation. Then the Titans or the Giants are looking to say, you know what? Like maybe, you know, there's something. But now it's.

now it kind of puts more pressure on. Am I going to take a flipping safety or a linebacker or a guard ahead of a wide receiver that we really need? I don't know. It's just, it's interesting. It's only interesting to me because just about every personnel director and general manager I've talked to in the last week. They're having these exact conversations. Yeah. I mean, I like those top three a lot.

I just feel like people have had. them earlier than I would have had them going because for some of these reasons. I love Cornell Tate. He's not an elite athlete. I love McKinleman, and he did check the boxes in terms of some things that we'll talk about in the second, but he's not your prototypical frame. Jordan Tyson has durability issues. Every one of those top three guys, you can start poking some holes in them.

So when everyone's like, oh, they're all top 10, top 10, I just didn't see that ever really. But they're still very good receiver prospects. So, yeah, when you're looking at these other guys, it's, it's, it's going to be tough to pass on a player that you feel that confident in in terms of, you know, Caleb Downs. Like, I just feel like you, the ceiling is very, I mean, the floor is very high for those players. Yeah. What did you see from Mackay Lemon? He checked.

He was the size that I wanted him to be. I mean, my thing was the Amon Rae St. Brown, right? And Amon Rae St. Brown was 5.11.5.197. And that's basically what McKay Lemon came in at. And so, I mean, I'm getting all kinds of heat on Twitter today about, oh, what are you going to say now, Mitch? What are you going to say now? I want to see him run his 40, but I feel very comfortable with McKinleyman in the middle of the first round right now. And do I think he's wide receiver won because he got the St. Brown numbers?

No, I never thought that. But he's definitely in the top three group, and I definitely feel a lot more comfortable about taking him in in the first round. I thought he might come in a five, ten or shorter. Are you weirded out by how his gesturing at the podium? I didn't love it. but like how much weight do you put in that stuff? You know what I mean? I just said it to make you uncomfortable.

But like that is what it is. I mean, he's got to go out and run well now. He's got to, you know, St. Brown was a 4-5-1 guy at his pro day. I don't think he ran at the combine. So hopefully he runs in that area and checks that box. But right now he's trending in the right direction for me. Again, always love the tape, always love the production. It's the frame that scared me.

I will say this. And I mean, it's a viral thing on the end. internet and I get it and we can we can laugh about it or we can over-emphasize it and all those things the fact of the matter is again talking to general managers in the league um the the interview process is going a lot better for the other two Tyson and tait than it is for mckeye lemon and you know me like i'm a lemon guy yeah right um but if if you've got him in the same bucket i promise you that that's probably the number me remember we're talking to dan morgan like that's probably the number, and every general manager,

but just that was kind of, it was so poignant with like, you know, there's certain things and you just got, but his play is that of a badass. Right. His play going over the middle, breaking tackles, the toughness,

the blocking, it's that of a grinder. Pick a game. I mean, Illinois is like one that really jumps out to me, but pick a game. How about the Iowa catch? Yeah, I mean, there's just, yeah, I mean, so,

yeah, so that part's interesting, but I'm just saying there are teams out there that may have them in a bucket, and there are teams out there that I've specifically talked to to that appreciated what they got out of the interviews from Jordan Tyson and Carnell Tate more than they did from the McKinian Lemon ones. So be that as it may. I want to transition, right? I want to transition to the big guys first. Because my goodness, did we see some special stuff today. Like, excluding Malachi Fields, just about every one of the big receivers that we, that I've been kind of high on, and a couple more, had awesome days. I want to start the, there you see,

Denzel Boston from Washington. Let's look at what he did, right? Denzel Boston from Washington didn't do a ton. He didn't do his, he didn't run to 40, didn't do the vertical jumps, but you know what he did? He had a 35 inch, sorry, he didn't do the broad jump. He had a 35 inch vertical at 6.3.5, 212 pounds with 32 inch arms and a 77 and 38 inch wing span, right? You know what else that no one has reported on that I saw, at least, and no one talked about during coverage? You know what that son of a gun did? It seems like he went in like the bowels of Lucas Oil. He ran a 428 short shuttle at that size. I've been telling you he gets in and out better than you think.

Interesting. It's a great number for his size. Yeah, it's a great number. It's a great number. It's above average for any receiver, and it's way above average when you do weight adjustment at 6.3.5, 212 pounds. So that was interesting. Malachi Fields is the other guy that's high on the list, right, right behind him. And I'll be quite honest.

It wasn't an atrocious workout. This wasn't like waving red flags everywhere, but it certainly was a little bit. opening and I think as you're starting to talk about him with some of the buzz like late first maybe top 40 pick I do think that this could factor in and why is it you say well you say the workout numbers are then no what happens in a room is as teams meet and hopefully if you've watched in this GM series you got a better sense of like what those meetings are like and some of the guys we've talked to that have grew up under Dorsey right right um and the process and the weeks long.

And specifically, I think it was, I think it was Ryan Poles, who gave us a great, like, detailed of, like, could be 14 days, could be 17 days of grinding tape, like, 8 in the morning, 5 o'clock, we maybe break for half hour to get. You don't stop watching a player until there's a consensus. Don't stop watching a player until there's a consensus. So, like, with all that in mind, there's certain people that come into the room, and it's not preconceived notion. It's working their ass off for months upon months of watching tape and doing

background checks and all that, with a strong opinion on what the player is. And there's some guys out there that don't love Malachi Fields. There's some other guys I've talked to in the league that really love him, and like higher than maybe most people think. And I know his interviews have been awesome. And I know there are wide receiver coaches that I've talked to that love his tempo of routes and some of the little things he does. But there's this production factor that wasn't great at Notre Dame.

It wasn't even phenomenal at Virginia. He's a quarterback convert, right? Conversion guy. And now you've got these workout numbers that aren't awesome. He had a 461, which at his size, 6.4.5-218, it's not like, oh, my gosh. But it's not ideal. And then, especially as a guy who's got to get down the field and make big plays. And then there's the 163, which is a red flag number for the,

would you say Carnell Tate's one, 161. 161. 162 and above is the number I've always kind of worked off of. So, yeah, I just, and, but then again, like, the vertical jump of 38 inches is very good for his size. The 10-4 broad jump is above average, and he did a three cone of 6, 9,8, which I see on tape with him, the body control, the change of direction. So all in all, the 40 number. is not what you wanted it to be, and the 10-yard split is even worse.

Right. But the rest of it is really good, or is good for his size, I should say. Yeah, I thought he tracked and caught the ball well during on-field drills, too. But, yeah, I mean, I think just to circle back to what you're saying, I think it's going to be, I'm not sure that he's going to be a first-round guy with those numbers. No, no, I don't think so either. I think it's top 50 is about the range, somewhere like first 15 picks of the second round. Here's the other part. Chris Brazzles second. Didn't do a ton of stuff. But the Tennessee wide receiver,

I just, I love the way he operates. I love how he gets in and out of his breaks. You saw that Georgia game, he single-handedly took over. People in the league are afraid of Tennessee wide receivers. So everyone in the media will tell you. I don't know that that's exactly true, but I do think there are some things there with the wide splits and some of the route concepts that they do. And then the proven track record of some guys who have gone early from Tennessee that makes it a little, concerning, okay? But I see in him 6-4-198 pounds, long but lean frame. He didn't do the vertical, the broad, and any of those other things. But what he did do, he absolutely nailed with a 43740-yard dash. I want you to think about the difference in speed when we talk about Amaliki fields at 461 or even

a Carnell Tate at 454. And we talk about those numbers in the 10-yard split that are in the the one six range, low one sixes. He had a 10-yard split of 152, which is elite for his length, okay? That only helps his cost. Yeah. I mean, that's an impressive number for a guy with that size. And then you see some of the stuff on tape,

and you're like, okay, this all tracks for what he is. Right. Now, here's where we get to some guys that, if your casual viewers, haven't been, like, dialed in since the senior bowl or throughout our process, and you're just kind of kept jumping in now because it's exciting, and the combine's happening,

and the draft is only a couple months away. 54 days, exactly, is what Tucker told me. He said, and I always trust Tucker. Always trust Tucker. There are some other dudes, man, that are like, let's go back and check the tape, or you and I have watched the tape, and we hope they would work out well,

but my gosh, they blew the doors off this place. I should make a note, two other of the big receivers that were on that graphic. Chris Bell and Elijah Surat did not work. out. Bell is coming off the ACL. ACL and Surratt's coming off the national championship. It is still training to work out. Let me give you some of these names, brother.

Ted Hurst, Georgia State. We fell in love with him. We fell in love with him at the Senior Bowl. Georgia State young man playing the small school level. It's almost impossible. Now with NIL and the guys transferring to find a receiver that is in the small or any position player. player. He played at Georgia State. Over 1,000 receiving yards. I think it was this past year.

My research from the Senior Bowl is still holding up. I think it was like 1,015 receiving yards, right? He checks in at almost, he's basically 6'4, 206 pounds, big hands, 9 and 3 quarters, 32 and 5.8 inch arm length, right? Checks all those boxes. Yep. He comes out, man. 10-yard split is 155, which is really, really good for his size. He runs a 4-4-2. at that size. He has a 36.5 inch vertical, which is really good for his size, and he has the best broad jump of every single wide receiver, and there were like 50 plus, right, at 11 foot 3.

So you get this Ted Hurst guy that we're already talking about in day two, and then a couple other guys come out. And I told you about Bryce Lane earlier, and I told you he kept popping up on my tape when I'm watching. Lance, but yeah, go ahead. Cole, yeah, sorry, Bryce Lance, Trey Lance's younger brother. Yep. So people kind of know about him a little bit, but still plays it in North Dakota State.

And I see him on reverses and catching the balls down the field and doing different things. As I'm watching Cole Payton, the quarterback from North Dakota State, and I'm watching him look like Tim Tebow throw the football. And immediately I'm like, I don't think I like this guy because I couldn't stand Tim Tebow in the way he threw the football. He's got this tight upper body. He comes from the left side. He's a south ball. but he's just drilling strikes, unlike Tebow, and he's doing it with anticipation,

and he did it again today at the Combine workouts. Tebow ricochet shot for no reason, but go ahead. Tim and I are actually good now. But Bryce Lance, Trey Lance's younger brother, comes out and puts together a workout that would be second to none, but I'm going to tell you who he's second to in a second. Trey Lance is over six foot three. He's 204 pounds. Same arm length I just mentioned is Ted Hurst.

Ted Hurst ran a 155, 10-yard split. You know what he ran? 149. Wow. It was tied for second fastest of any receiver, and again, he's 6'3-3-8s of an inch. Ted Hurst ran a great 40 time. Remember I just told you?

He's a day-two pick, this Ted Hurst guy. He ran a 4-4-2. You know what Bryce Lance ran? A 4-3-4. Ted Hurst had the best broad jump of any anyone. That was his, that was the standout number for him. 11.3. Lance is 11.11.11. 11. And Hearst, 40 yard, I'm sorry, vertical jump. I said, was really good for his size, 36 and a half inches. Really nice. Combined in that length and the wingspan with 36 and a half inches, that's great.

Bryce Lance was 41 and a half. Big day. I mean. Yeah. But there was a lot of them. There's a lot of these guys that are going to be, we're going to have to go back and really kind of look at again because there's a lot like a lot of But his tape's really good. Yeah, I know. There's a lot of great numbers with good, like it's, there's a lot of work to do. You know whose tape I have not done yet? And I'm not afraid to admit it. We're in February. Jeff Caldwell. Yeah, from Cincinnati. He's the guy who's the second to none guy. And people are probably, can we talk about Cardinal Tate? Let's talk about Jeremiah Love. Fuck that. This guy from Cincinnati came out today.

His name is Jeff Caldwell. He's 6.5 and 3 eighths of an inch. He's 216 pounds. 32 and 5.8 inch arm length. He's bigger, he's taller, thicker, and longer than those other guys I just mentioned. Including Denzel Boston, including Malachi Fields. Okay? He ran a 4-3-1.

4-3-1. I just told you how unbelievable Bryce Lance was. So this guy's two inches taller. 12 pounds bigger and ran 431 compared to Lance's 434. I just told you how unbelievable the split was for Caldwell, right? I mean for Bryce Lance, tied for second at that tall. How could he do it? Caldwell at 6'5, ran a 148.

It was the fastest of any of these suckers who were running today. He had a 42-inch vertical who was tied for second best. He had 11-2. It was tied for second best just behind Ted Hurst. Jeff Caldwell won the combine today. I don't know what it gets him. It gets a lot of people flying back who have downloaded his tape. So on the plane, Sunday after the offensive lineman, can dig into Jeff Caldwell.

And it's going to get him a lot of frequent flyer miles, because I promise you he's going to be on. His name is going to be on that list that everyone gets cuckoo about in April, the 3rd. visits. Jeff Caldwell is a name now that everyone's trying to get more, and GMs are talking to the area scout. Like yeah, hey, get me up to speed. Get me up to speed.

That's unbelievable. It's an unbelievable workout. I don't know, you go so into depth of these guys, I don't know where to go with it. I also say this, I thought Colby Young from Georgia did not, like this is what happens with these guys that like, this is, this is how good this combine has been, right? You have these guys at the top who are doing elite workouts.

Yeah. And then you start to look down the list. You're like, hey, Colby Young, the Georgia wide receiver, it's 218 pounds. He's 6-5. We're going to 4-4-9 today. Like, there's all this like hidden little stuff in here. I know. Of like, you're looking at these other guys like Antonio Williams, the Clemson and

wide receiver. We talked about all the year. We'll get to the slots. But go ahead. Okay. All right. All right. I'll stay away from the little guys.

Yeah. Okay. You know what I'm saying, though. I do. You go through all of these names and all of a sudden you're looking at these guys and you're like, Huh. We just talk about the Kimmer Cincinnati Colville doing having a monster workout. And then you look at these other guys and you're like, that's a really good number for his frame.

That's a great workout for what in that. I remember seeing him on the field that day. And he looked so like he just looked like he was comfortable tracking the ball. I worked in TV for a long time. I'm not saying I was good at it, but I promise you I've been in over a thousand meetings. I know the secret sauce. I know what first take does and why those ratings are so high. whether you love the content or not. I know what works. And I know what works is not spending 30 minutes on Georgia State, Cincinnati, and North Dakota statewide receivers.

And you know what? I got away from that and I'm like, you know what? When we have these opportunities, because this is what's actually going on, I don't care. Like this, if you want to be smarter, you want to, like, really know what's like what happened today, this is what happened today. Some young men who weren't discovered out of high school as the top prospects of the top recruits and all that stuff

who have been grinding into it. These guys made so much money and made such an impact on what NFL evaluators and decision makers think of them. And I think it's awesome what we saw. The slot receivers, the Z receivers, the guys who didn't have that kind of size. There was a lot of good stuff there too, man.

I'll give you a couple and you go wherever you want from it. The two guys that stood out to me the most, Dionne Burke's Zachariah Branch. Dionne Burks is just five, nine, three quarters. His production has never been great. He's only 180 pounds. But I told you in August, he's a top 100 pick. And I've been telling you, despite the season

underwhelming, and remember, you know, we love John Mateer on this show. But he had the thumb injury, the passing game fell apart. The production wasn't there. And quite frankly, Isaiah Satania was the better receiver at Oklahoma this year. He showed up in bigger moments for whatever reason. They went to him in bigger moments, maybe material was

more comfortable with him, whatever. But I've been trying to let people know that Dion Burks is a guy that's viewed in NFL circles as someone who is absolutely going to be a day two pick, and they think there's so much more ahead of him. His NFL career is going to be more productive

than that of his college career, okay? He ran a 10, just top to bottom. You ready? 10-11 broad jump tied for fifth, absolutely elite. 40 was 430. It's the third fastest of all these wide receivers. Vertical jump, 42 and a half.

That in itself, by the way. Which was best. The best vertical jump. Yep. And he was tied for second with the 10 yards split in 149. So that's the four categories. Broad jump, 40, vertical 10. In reverse order, by the way, of NFL correlation.

It starts with 10. Then it goes to vertical. Then it goes to 40. then it goes a broad jump, and that's not including the arm length and some of those measurables. So starting with the results that matter and correlate, you're talking tied for second best, best, third fastest, tied for fifth. Sensational day by Birx. And then Zachariah Branch, who's even a little bit smaller, an inch smaller at 508.5, and three pounds lighter. But I think he's a better football player, if I'm going to be honest.

and I don't think he's a gimmick. Go back to his USC tape. He can run the routes. I think he's a tough son of a gun. I think people are sleeping on this guy, and I think he's going to be a dynamic playmaker in the NFL. As a number two, number three, whatever you want to categorize him as,

and I'm not saying in the first round, I'm saying somewhere in the second round, a team is going to get a guy who's going to come in. He's NFL ready. He's tough. He knows how to run routes a lot better than people think. And he ripped off of 1-50-10-yard split. He ripped off a 4-3-5-40-yard dash,

38 inch vertical, 10-5, and honestly, watching him in the gauntlet, watching him in drills, the body control, the strength of his hands catching the ball, there's nothing I saw today that is going to dissuade me of where I have him ranked, which is seventh in a really, really

deep, good wide receiver group. Even his frame, I know he's small, but I like the way he carries his way. He's kind of a, like for a small guy, it's kind of thicker. He's ripped. He looks like he can handle it, you know what I mean? Who else stood out for these, like, smaller... I mean, throw up that list. again, Tucker, if you got a minute.

The Z, we'll call him the Z flanker slash slot receivers. Omar Cooper, KC. Concepcion. I talked about Zachariah Branch. I talked about Dionne Burks, but also Antonio Williams, I know you wanted to get to, and Jeremy Bernard, who had a really good day, too. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to get in there. I thought Antonio Williams was really solid, ran a 4-4-1. That's a good speed for him.

39-5-inch vertical. That's a good jump. Then he thought it looked really good on the field. another Clemson guy who's after this horrific season, I think is starting to write the ship a little bit. He's going to be, I think, a really good slot. I thought that Concepcion maybe had the best on-field drills from what I saw. He looked just comfortable and smooth.

And another guy that I don't know if we have on that list, but is one of my favorites because, look, he's 5-9, 193 pounds, short arms, small hands. But Caden Weijin. Yeah, what's his deal, man? from Iowa's 447. I thought he might even run a little faster. The real reason I'm going to highlight him is he's just a special teams maniac.

Like he's dangerous in the return game. And you can use him in a lot of different ways after the catch. He's a player to keep an eye on day three. I think he's even more explosive than that 447 time, which is not bad. I just think he's, when you watch his tape, that dude gets from A to B in a hurry. I was really encouraged by Jeremy Bernard too. and we should mention Omar Cooper who I think

he's going to be a first round pick I legitimately do I think the biggest thing for Omar Cooper was can he run in the 4-4s and he walked out here today a few weeks off of winning a national championship and he ran a 4-4-2 and in my estimation it matches the tape so I think that that was

huge for him good vertical but that's what he had to do here and he did it I've said but he's like Jarvis Landry, man, but with speed. Imagine if Jarvis Landry had 4-4-2 speed. That's what you got.

You've got the toughest son of a gun on the block for his size, blocking, you know, just like working the middle of the field. He does every little thing. His compete level is awesome. But I was really encouraged by Jeremy Bernard because I was kind of worried when you watch this tape, I see flashes, like the takeoff, but I don't see that, like, great second burst sometimes. but I just really like him as a player.

Not dissimilar from Cooper, to be honest with you, contact balance, toughness, does all the little things, love work in the middle of field. I think he's going to be a second round pick, but later in the second round, I think he's going to come in the league and he's just going to consistently produce,

you know? Yeah. But I love seeing that he ran a 1-5-2, 10-yard split. You see that on tape, the ability to accelerate. I love the fact that he ran something with a 4-4. He ran a 4-4-8. That was the whole thing for him. And you know what he snuck?

into a couple of these sons of guns. They just snuck in these little shuttles and cones. Because not a lot of guys are doing it this year because apparently people are slipping. I feel it's been going down for a couple of years now. Like, guys just don't want to run it here. And they're just not. But he went over in a small group of players that ran the three cone.

He ran a 6-7-1, which just trust me on it is elite, elite, elite. The body control you see. Again, matches tape, right? That's what's important. All right. Those are the receivers. I thought it was a fascinating group.

And people might have been disappointed because it wasn't the fireworks that we saw with Sunny Stiles, but I thought the fireworks were in the real scouting, like the deeper, deeper down. Quarterbacks. I didn't expect to start the quarterback conversation on Tailing Green, but where else can you go? The guy is superhuman. And I told you throughout the week, I didn't like his tape in Arkansas. I think the two most important things the quarterback has to have. accuracy, decision making.

And I think he got a D to an F grade in those areas on tape. But I've seen improvement over time with him. I've seen that he's hitting some more spots. I've seen some development in some, like early in the season, the mistakes and even the turnover worthy plays that weren't turnovers, were like, oh, cringy, right? And then I saw him at the Senior Bowl. I saw steady progression each day.

And he's just kind of growing on me. And just watching the way he carries himself. And I mean, we all know he's a phenomenal athlete. But there's a certain level of athlete that's different than all the others where you say, you know what, he's just so special. Let's bring him in with no pressure. Jalen Milrow. Yeah.

This guy's better than Jalen Milrow, I promise you. Like, significantly. football's smarter, more accurate, just has natural touch, better natural touch throwing the football. And it physically, like, Millrow was like super quick, super fast, all that stuff. Well, this guy's super fast, too. He ran a 436. And he's also 6 foot 6, 227 pounds with almost 10 inch hand span and 35 and 34. He has left tackle arm length.

And you say, why is that important? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if that helps him actually. It doesn't because it's part of the reason why his stroke isn't is consistent. I understand that. It helps for the people out there who are like, what's moving to wide receivers, a thousand-yard receiver right away. Like, please stop.

Please stop. This guy's been working his entire life to play the quarterback position. Is he going to come in the league and maybe have some packages for? just what we talked about with Cole Payton, who's been like the Tim Tebow of the FCS, of like running short yardage, inverted veer, all that stuff. Yeah, I think you'd be. And remember Seattle with Milro is a third round pick. Early in the season, they did some QB stuff short yardage, more like sneaks and stuff like that,

but it seemed like they were setting something up a bigger package for him, and it just kind of went away. This guy is a different level with his strides and his efforts. athleticism. I don't know. If I'm saying to you people in the league or like Cole Payton, we're intrigued, maybe we bring them in late third round and utilize them and we try to develop them, the hell you wouldn't do that with this guy. I mean, Tailing Green is, I mean, you just had a GM sit in this chair and talk about how you have to keep taking your shots at quarterback. He's a shot. You take a shot, right? You take a shot. And I don't.

like that he didn't shy away from it. I've seen a lot of Uber athletic quarterbacks come here and not work out. I mean, Jaylen Milro, I thought, had an opportunity to show the world

just exactly what he could do and he didn't run. I mean, Lamar Jackson didn't run. I mean, these are guys that are, that I thought could have come here and really showed something. And this kid didn't shy away from it. He went out there and put on

an absolute show, and that's, we could be talking about a lot of different things. If Tailing Green does not run the way he runs today, we're not talking about Tailing Green. He may not even come up in this conversation,

now. You know, we talked about him in the senior bowl, a nice store, we know he's super athletic, we know he can run, yada, yada, yada. What was Joe Milton, the fifth? He was a fifth, yep. And what did they, they traded him for what a third? They got a third round picked from the Cowboys? I don't know what the tree was for, yeah. I want to say it was a third from the Cowboys.

But you know what I'm saying? Of course I do. He took advantage, and I love that he took advantage. That's one of the other themes in this, in this. There's been some guys that we wish it worked out, but there's some dudes who didn't shy away from the moment and stepped up and came through. Fernando Mendoza did not work out.

I think Tailing Green is going to be a third round pick. I think worst case, it's early day through. He's a top hunter guy. I think he's just too talented. And I think everyone needs to get wide receiver out of their mouth. And it's not for any external reason, any political reason, any racial reason. It's for no reason other than I want to give this guy a chance to develop as a backup quarterback that comes in the league with no pressure. And let's see what happens.

because if I can develop something like that with that ability. Yeah, it's the same thing with Milroo. Like, that was the whole thing. And this guy's tape, I swear to you, this guy's tape I think is better than Milrose. Oh, I know it's better than. So if you could, if you're thinking,

if that's your thinking then, why is it changed now? Like, I, to me, it's a no-brainer. He's a top owner guy. I want to go to the rest of the quarterbacks because Mendoza didn't work out, and obviously. Here's how I'm going to, I'm going to throw some nuggets at you

and you take it anywhere you want. I thought it was, So very clear and who cares about a workout throwing the receivers you don't know inside the gym without pads on and no defense and all that stuff. So very clear to me that Ty Simpson is the best quarterback throwing the football on the field today. I thought Garrett and Usmeyer did some really good things. I thought Cole Klubnick was more erratic than maybe the narrative was in the broadcast. But I also wasn't there on the field. And so but I there's two names.

I thought Cole Payton showed showed him. himself well, especially kind of a couple of the deep balls and stuff like that. I think the quarterback that everyone's sleeping on, and I'm not talking first or second round, but if you really watch today, and I don't know why it was missed, if you really watched, Baron Morton might have been the second best passer there today. And I always get my information from NFL GMs and personnel people and coaches, especially now that we're into this lying season, I base my information oftentimes off of what questions are they asking me.

And I promise you, outside of conversations about the top two or three guys, honestly, I don't know, outside of Mendoza and Simpson, I don't know that a quarterback name has been asked to me of my thoughts on that quarterback more than Baron Morton. Just throwing out there. Yeah, it's interesting. You keep going back to it. And you're like a dog with a bone there.

I'll say this. I'm going to go in a different direction. Really good to see Drew Aller out there. And I thought his workout got better, better as he went on. He looks like he was smiling. It was great to see him out there throwing the ball after the injury and the horrific year that he had at Penn State. It was good to see him work out.

I don't, I thought Ty was really good. I thought Ty Sims was really good. Carson Beck had a hell of a day, too, in my mind. Yeah. I thought Carson Beck came out with his build and the way he carried his weight. I thought I'm smiling when people are booing him. I thought he threw the ball well. I thought Carson Beck had a really nice workout today.

I'll tell you one thing about Carson Beck that I do like. He's got that prick in him. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. You can't. And I promise you, all the sweetheart quarterbacks that you like, all the commercial guys, all the, all the, the good-looking ones, all the really nice guys.

Oh, they seem so nice. Oh, I'd love my daughter to date him. He's adorable. He does so much funny stuff on commercials. They're all assholes, man. They're all obsessive. They're all grinders. They're all CEOs of businesses.

And they need to be. And I say that, like, in such a positive light. There's not one of them that is not. a prick. And he checks that box. Yeah. He's just got that in him. I mean, that frame, though. He might not like his personality. He might not like some of the stuff. But he's just got, like, I don't care.

Yeah? So what? I am interested in the, the Barron thing is interesting to me, though. I'll go back to that a little bit. Because I don't think the tape is, I don't love the tape. I know. So like, I don't, I can't get on board with it. Even with a great workout, like the idea that he would go. It's a quick process. it's the ball out on time. It's the rhythm,

the rhythm stuff. It's the football intelligence. It's the football intelligence. It's the toughness. It's the leadership. And it's a league where it's the haves and haves knots. There's really three tiers of quarterbacks in the league. There's the first rounders that I'm drafting because they've got to be the guy.

Then there's that like early, that second round guy where I think he can't. There's four tiers. I think he can be. I hope so, like, the Derek Carr's, the Tyler Shucks, I think he can be. I really believe in him. I'm not going to, he might not be in there in the third round. Like, I value him enough to take him early in the second. Drew Brees, like there's a bunch of them, okay?

Yep. But there's something negative. With Shuck, it was, he's 100 years old. He's been to seven different schools, and he's had all these injuries. With Breeze, it was the size. With Derek Carr, I have my own opinions. It doesn't matter now. So there's that tier.

Then there's a third tier we just talked about with the Tailing Green's, the Jalen Milrose, the Joe Milton's, the like developmental guys that would bring in, and maybe it's Cole Payton's. Develop them, maybe we get something out of them in terms of short yardage, goal on, a package, and people often say it and don't wind up doing it, but that's how they view it. And then there's this fourth tier of quarterback. And if we're being honest, I think Kirk Cousins was kind of one of those.

But maybe was in between. But there's a lot of guys. Certainly Chase Daniel, it comes to mind, first and foremost. That you just draft because you don't ever have an expectation he's going to be a starter. But maybe if we're in a pinch, two, three years down the road, he can start and win some games for us. There's a bunch of them in the league. Houston's backup.

Who came in for Davis Mills. Davis Mills. Like those kind of guys. But they're so smart. and they're another coach. And those prick starting quarterbacks that I told you about, they need a guy who will actually do the homework assignments. And you think homework assignments were hard when you were a senior in high school or something?

These are like grinding data, tape, tendencies, all this stuff. And so when I talk to people in the league, their thing on Morton is he's going to be a great backup because he's smart, he's tough, he loves and eats football. Like his whole life is that He's going to be great in that quarterback Room man and I need that Okay Don't love the tape

I think it makes a lot of questionable decisions on tape Hasn't been able to stay healthy But like he is, listen That's got nothing to do with toughest That kid is tough Oh my gosh And a great leader That's not what I'm saying

So I want to be clear about it But like me Me tape All right You watch when some of these other big name guys That we were touting in the summer And we'll make mistakes all the time I don't...

Manning passing again. So it's going to be a mistake when he gets taken ahead of... Yeah. I'm taking Baron Morton over Drew Aller every single day of the week. I don't have any problem with that. Are you taking over Carson Beck? No. Okay, thank you.

That's where... That's, you know, I just want to... I'm just trying to get a feel for where you are. Not over Nussmeyer, not over Beck. Certainly not over Simpson, obviously, not Mendoza. I'm not taking him over Col Payton. I'm not taking him over Tailing Green. You're not taking him over Col Payton?

No. I'm taking Cole Payton in the third... Worst case early four. You were just talking about this. You were just talking about Barhamorton. Like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. No, you're not taking them over.

No, but there are Clubnicks and Allers and other bigger name guys that are out there. Don't yell me. Yes. Are you still not feeling good? I think the whole like mench's and feeling good ship has this rolled. It was on a, it was on a float.

It was rolling out of Indianapolis. Airport tomorrow. The only man to have a cold for nine days. Here we go. Check the tape. Anything else on quarterbacks you want to get you? By the way, in the McShay report, I got into the quarterbacks in more detail. Just, just.

And some of the, some of the conversations I'm having, but go ahead. Macro, I thought it was nice that they all, they was overall was a pretty good day for all of them. You know what I mean? Like, Tailing Green kind of struggled with the throws on the field, but it's such a great workout that it didn't matter. And this has been a quarterback class that I think that's been battered. And it's not that great, okay? It just isn't. But when you're one of those kids and you're going out and you're competing, it's not that great to hear about how this.

isn't a great quarterback class. And I thought they all worked out pretty well today. And I think that's good for them. I don't disagree. And I actually think when we look back on this quarterback class, and I've got some interesting nuggets in the McShay report about like what people in the league are comparing it to what they think is going to happen and it's not overly promising, I'm going to state this until the end of this draft and beyond.

I think when we look back on the 26th quarterback class, it's going to be one of those where it's like, oh, we got 50. five starters from that group or something like that. Maybe four. I think it's going to wind up being sneaky good. Because you know what I think happened? I think something happened to a lot of these quarterbacks that doesn't normally happen is that they had to deal with real, real life adversity.

Injuries, losing, coaches, like real stuff. Playing lousy, even when those things weren't happening. Like, that's a, every GM we talk to, it's like, it's the same themes. These guys have been through some stuff that a lot of other guys that come in the league, all roses. Yeah. You know? I don't know.

I just got a sense about this group. All right, running backs. We've already gone long. Who cares? To last night, poor Tucker and Nick and Jake, they get like 4 a.m. wakeups. Probably want to ring my neck. I had a great lunch with you guys today, though. Absolutely fabulous.

Can we just, honestly, two seconds. Is this going to be the shark tank idea that I didn't hear about? I hope so. No, it's not the shark tank idea, but I might be cooking with somebody at some point. And I make the world's greatest hollandae sauce. Keep saying it. So we'll see. We'll see.

We're fortunate. These three men who are behind the scenes. Oh, isn't it? Yeah. There's a lot of people we need to think. Unbelievable. talented what they do. They grind.

Jake, Nick, and Tucker, everyone probably knows more because I'm always needling them and he's giving it back when he can. Like, man, we're lucky. Really lucky. Like the work that has gone into this. And now all of a sudden it's like the coveted place. And we've got people from different networks

popping in. That's what happens. Like moles and rats come out of the woodwork. And they try to figure out, where are the? How many cameras do they need? How many people are in their crew? What's the setup? like, well, we got three men that have taken this on, and it started last year here with us stumbling into a hotel that we didn't even know existed because it had a soft opening and we're

able to get in, and they took this room and made it into this beautiful set that now is like kind of the talk of Indianapolis with TV stuff, and they did it by obviously being unbelievably talented, but grinding and actually caring. And I will, there's no three men that I would want to work with more than Tucker, Jake, and Nick. And by the way, they're even greater human beings. And I enjoy every day that we get to work together. So there we go. I agree. I know you do. I know you do. I mean, I come down today, listen to me and Jake's got like some kind of lemon, ginger. He doesn't have to do that. No. That's the kind of. He did say I was out of the business idea. That wasn't fun. But other than that, it was great. Yeah. Well, maybe like, peel yourself out of bed,

get some fresh air and come out to some lunches with us and, you know, you get involved. Also, we're going to do the thanks now to everyone because, I mean, we should probably thank Connor and Allison and Marissa and Dan. I mean, it's... Please do it. I started. You finished. And then the, it was really good. Allison, Connor, Connor always, he oversees all of this and does all the executive stuff that's dirty work and I'm always, we're always like, but, yeah.

Yeah, stuff we want to do with, yeah. And Dan is a consummate grinder and is rising fast in the, this and he should because he works so hard and he's so talented what he does and marissa handles everything behind the scenes and gets zero credit for it and she's perfectly happy with all of that but i do want to give a special thanks to alison alison has been like a godson to this group and i can text a lot of these gms but like nothing gets done because yeah man let's do it and it's like alison actually like set up we had seven general manager interviews do you know how hard that is to do And it's not like...

She makes it seem like it's nothing. Every time you get on the phone with her, she's so nice. It's not like, it's not like radio row where they pop in for 10 minutes and like, yeah, we can use a running back this year and, you know, we feel good about our quarterback situation. Like they sit down and they talk to us for 40, 50 minutes and like really dish it. Yeah. So thank you to Allison as well.

Also good to meet the ringer fantasy boys, those goofballs. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah. They're goofballs, man, but they're a lot of fun. Yeah, they are a lot of fun. They're a lot of fun. They do some really good.

stuff. Check out their... Check out DK's draft guy, man. Yeah, that thing's... I like it. Yeah, me too. There's some stuff in there. It's good to talk to them about. I like D.K. a lot. All right. Running backs. Jeremiah Love was a story. Jeremiah Love had one thing to do here, and honestly, he didn't even have to do it,

but he just decided to show up, and he's going to run, and he runs a 4, 3, 6. It's the second best of all the running backs that are here. He's 6 foot, 212 pounds. And honestly, had he finished his first one that was a 4-3-7 and just kept running out of the building to a limousine like Dion Sanders did one, you know, as the lore is, I would have been like, yeah, sure, no problem, right? Yeah. Like, sure. I've told you all week long, every general manager I talk to you, they say, in their list may be four, it may be five deep, it may include Arvel Rees race, it may include a guard from Penn State, but it certainly includes. sunny styles and it certainly includes Caleb Downs

and it certainly includes Jeremiah Love as the only elite blues as people in the league call him in this entire draft class. He had nothing to prove man and he still came out and ran a 4-3-6 and by the way if you get a chance to go watch the way he runs routes that to me was more impressive. I knew he was going to run fast it was 439 it was the route running seeing oh we're getting

we're getting like, he's not McCaffrey, but like there's some bejean and there, you know, like, so we got that part of it. And you know what I also kind of like getting to know what drives him and there's been great features on him and kind of what he's dealt with throughout his life and his parents and the way they challenged him rather than kind of like bottled him up. Yeah. And made his, you know, his brain a superpower, which is awesome. And as a parent, like I get chills thinking about.

it and then watching his dad in the stands after he ran a 4-3-7 being like there's more it was a great week for the parents by the way great week for the parents awesome no no better parent parent parent week than mrs styles though yeah um but just to see that right no and not like you can run faster it was like i know there's a number you want son go get it and then he came back and ran it that's awesome Yeah. Right? Just kind of get to know the what and the why behind some of these young men. So that was an awesome scene.

The next player who got the most – Jeremiah Love was talked about the most on the broadcasts and all through social media and absolutely should have been for all the reasons I just told you. Judarian Price was the second most talked about. And again, he's a Notre Dame running back and he did some really good things in the workouts and all that – like some good things. I didn't think he deserved to be talked about as much as some of these other guys. if I'm going to be totally blunt. And it doesn't, like, that's not a knock on Judarian.

Jadarian's workout was good. It was good. It was okay. It was good. He's 5, 10 and a half. He's 203 pounds. He had a 35-inch vertical, which is above average. He had a 10-4 bra jump, which is good.

It's really good. He had one-six-1-10-yard split. It's ninth. Slightly below average, actually. Hit a 4-49, very good, tied for six with the running backs. Excellent on-field workout. So that portion of it, he deserved his flowers, but the rest of it was like, yo, hello? Yeah.

We've got three backs that are doing something that is absolutely absurd right now. What the hell were we doing? I don't know. Mike Washington had a workout equivalent to that of like a top 15 pick at the running back position. That's not often. Mike Washington from Arkansas, who we told you, really good tape catches the ball power back all those things that you look for in the NFL came to the senior bowl and stood out as probably the best running back there in in totality yep

mike washington six foot one he's 223 pounds i just told you the numbers of gerardian price who was the talk of the town in indy today he had a 39 inch vertical he's bigger he's two inches taller he's 20 pounds heavier and he had four more inches on his vertical. He had four more inches on his broad jump. They were both second and best. He ran a 151. I told you, Judarian ran a 161.

He ran a 151. It was the best of any running back in this class this year. It's fucking elite, man. Take that with the wodge, the weight adjusted number. At 151, he ran a 433, also best. Yep. It's insane. How does that not solidify?

him at least as a day two pick. When you combine the tape that we already like, and there's all this conversation about, and I'm not saying that he's better than Judarian Price because of workouts. I'm not at all saying that. I'm just saying like I see a difference in physical ability, and there's some power and explosiveness behind the way he runs. I want to get back to Price,

but I'm going to let you finish with the big guys. The next one up, this Seth McGowan guy, who I've watched a little bit of tape on, I've got to go back to Kentucky. Again, really stood out the Senior Bowl. When I watched him on tape, I saw a guy who presses the line of scrimmage, makes this one cut,

and finds a way without losing very much motion at all to start in accelerating again. He's another, over six foot, 223 pounds, right? Broad jump, 10-11, lower-body explosion, best in class. Vertical jump, 42-5. 42 and a half folks at 223 pounds what that tells me he creates power from ground up kind of important at running back he was best in class second best of all time at the combine it was unbelievable yeah one 60 was six best put that in the wodge again, the weight adjusted.

4-49 he runs at 223. He has an awesome day. Awesome day. Then Adam Randall, a guy we've been telling you about. We've literally watched him and talked about him through his process of a converted wide receiver, doesn't have really good running instincts, runs high, all this stuff. And then all of a sudden he starts seeing as the season goes on, he's running with power and confidence, and his instincts are getting better.

Then he comes to the senior bowl, and obviously he's going to catch the ball well, but he does some things there. His workout today, he's bigger than both those two other badasses. He's 6.3 and a third. 232 pounds. That's 10 pounds on the other guy. Long arms for going out and catching the ball, 32 and 3 8 inches. He has a broad jump of 10-4.

It's tied for third. That's elite. He had a 37-inch vertical. It's tied for fourth. It's outstanding. 1-60, which was the same time I just told you on McGowan, who blew up the combine. And he ran a 4-5-0, which was 8.000. the best and again put that in the wadge machine and spit it out. I'm telling you when those

RAS scores come out and I'm sure they're out now, they do the unofficial ones and then you get which which is a calculation. There's all these different scores but Razz has proven to be like a very good indicator of what your physical traits when you combine what's important and throw it in the machine and pop it out. And I bet you just like Sam Roush by the way. Hey, by the way, the oatmeal stuff's cute and fun until my guy Sam Roush comes out here and blows up the combine and has the only 10.0 perfect score in the RAS.

So I've had enough with the oatmeal and the lumberjack and I'm done with that whole silliness. Can you just switch? Can you just do that? You guys can do all the laughing because you probably feel like, oh shit. I got to send like 10,000 T-shirts back. No, you got to send like, fine, we'll stick with the oatmeal. But you got to send about 10,000

umsari's to me. with all the Roush laughing. I loved Roush. Yeah. I don't know if I love the comp. Well, I mean... The comp, no matter what comp it is, it's not good enough because he's literally the premier RAS score, RAS. But I can't wait to see what those numbers are for McGowan, for Randall and especially for Mike Washington.

Impressive. I think size matters that position. You want a big back who can handle, you know, like the beating that NFL backs take. When you look at the best backs in the league, a lot of them, or that size. Really quickly. I didn't see, I saw that your boy Mel had Judarian Price in the first round. I thought it's wild.

DJ's been talking about it a lot too. He's a speedback who ran an okay time today. There's a lot of east-west to his game. I don't know how it translates to the NFL. Didn't play a big role. Tell them, tell them, look in that camera right now and tell them quickly what you saw on day. Because I'm not there. He's an explosive dude.

I expected a better time today. He's explosive. He's very dangerous as a kickoff returner. But I think he has 15 catches over the last three years. So it's kind of tough to get a feel for how he is in the passing game. And when I say a lot of East West, he likes to run away from taxes. He loves the bounce outside. He loves the cutback.

And then when he gets to the second level, instead of making a linebacker or a safety miss, he's going to try to run away from that tackle and turn outside. And it's effective at the college level. I mean, he had a high average yards per carry, but I'm not sure how that translates to the NFL where everyone's bigger, stronger, faster. To me, I have my concern.

I think there were, finding RB2 in this class is a lot harder than people maybe even anticipated. Yeah, Emmett Johnson was RB2 or three. I really like Emma Johnson. He didn't have a good day today either. Yeah, he didn't work out well. Now it's back in the lab for that. But also, like, the idea that there's not that, there's not a massive gap between love and everyone else is crazy to me. I mean, there's, if you didn't see a running back go off until the third round, it wouldn't surprise me.

I wouldn't draft another one of these running backs until the third round, but I'd be thrilled to get Mike Washington in the third round? Yeah, yeah. And I'd be thrilled to get Adam Randall in the fourth round. And they're going to tell you that Washington's a little tight. Randall's a little tight. That's what you get with that size. I don't care.

I don't care. Those guys can run. Also, a lot of scared running backs today. Only 10 ran. A lot of scared guys. A lot of guys are like your opportunity here to be that guy, to step up and make an aim for yourself. On this track, why wouldn't you run? 10 guys ran.

This track is blazing hot. It's like going to the craps table and people are freaking out. you're like a man in a suit and you're throwing it and you've got women jumping up and down and drinks spilling and people going nuts. Tucker's probably in there because he gets hot on the crats table. I see it in his face right now. This this turf is hot, man.

Yeah. Run on it. Yep. Run on it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I mean, you look scared. You look scared when that happens. Your toughness was not on great display,

but it was in moments when you needed it most. I've had an awesome week with you regardless. I've missed hanging out and watching workouts because you've been quarantined. And I've loved every minute of it. So we've got an awesome interview that we taped a little bit earlier with Chris Ballard.

Chris is awesome, man. This is the one I missed. This is the one thing I missed. Yeah. And there are some people in this room who said it might have been the best interview we've ever done. I hope you enjoy Chris Ballard.

He, like, you know what? He owns some stuff. He gave some information, like, and background on stuff that was fascinating. And the more we're doing this thing, the more I just think we keep rolling it out. And I think we're going to wind up doing, like, something special with this GM series. We're just starting, I promise you. This thing's going to grow and it's going to get big. And, yeah, I've had an awesome week.

We're flying out tomorrow. That's what we're talking about. Flying out, we're not going to miss the O-line workouts. Mench wouldn't let us. But we're going to be back on Monday. Please join the show. And we're going to review everything. And I'm going to have a top 100 board coming out of Monday or Wednesday.

But I've got to get to work on that flight back and kind of put all this stuff in the system. Once again, thank you to Jake and to Nick and to Tucker and to Allison and to Connor and to Marissa. And to everyone else who has been a part of this. Dan, obviously. Dan bolted this morning. So I'm kind of giving them the treatment. But to Dan, Dan, absolutely, who's going to be writing? this article and getting it out. So it's in your inbox. The McShea report, Google it and subscribe

tomorrow morning. But please enjoy this Chris Ballard interview. It's not an interview. It's a conversation. And it's, to me, it's as good as it gets with the GM. Just being honest and telling you how he got to where he is, the struggles that he's going through, what he plans on doing to fix these struggles, and kind of what has made him the guy that he is today, which is a pretty awesome guy. It's good to have you here, man. Thanks for having me. Chris Ballard, general manager of the Indianapolis Colts. It's been a while. First of all, I wanted to thank you.

I'm just going to lay this out there. When I was dealing with some health stuff, one of the first text messages I got from anyone in the business was from you. And just like, you know, it kind of speaks to who you are. And I just wanted to say thank you publicly for that. I appreciate it. I want to get in your background. We're not going to do the normal, like, radio row and all the questions about this year's draft in class and needs and all that stuff.

I actually want to take some time and let people get to know you and kind of your background. First thing, you grow up in Texas, right? How in the hell do you wind up in Wisconsin? So, yeah, it's a, I wasn't highly recovered. I was an option quarterback. I could run. And Don Morton was the coach at Tulsa, and he had gone up to Wisconsin. So he had connections down in the south.

And Craig, there was actually two coaches. Bull and Lovie Smith. Oh, wow. And so they were recruiting the state of Texas. So they both, and then another coach by name of Jimmy Gonzalez who flew around. So they had the state of Texas. I was, you know, they saw an option quarterback that could run, figured I could do something, you know, just because of the speed.

I had some other places to go, but once I got on campus, I was like, man, this is incredible. And I hit, look, when I went on my visit, it was 60 degrees in January. and they were making it's like, I said, this ain't bad. It's not a, it's not too cold. So that's kind of how I ended up, you know, recruiting was much different that it is today. Right. But the district I played in growing up in Texas City was just, it had a plethora of talent between Lamarck High School, Galveston Ball, Leport, like multiple NFL players. It was great competition.

So recruiters were always coming through there. And that's kind of how I ended up at Wisconsin. So you play with a lot of talent in Texas. You wind up at University of Wisconsin and obviously a great program there. You wind up, correct me if I'm wrong, back at was it Texas Kingsville, right? Coaching. Yep. What about whether your childhood, high school, college, early days coaching,

What was it that helped develop you? So my mom, I really is really my mom only. I have a stepfather, Asi, who I'm very close with, but really my mom raised me along with, my grandfather was a coach. My grandfather played at the University of Texas. Okay. He was an outstanding football coach.

And that was kind of my first exposure day-to-day to football was with him. And so the last thing I wanted to do was being football, to be quite honest. Really? Oh, yeah. When I went to, I mean, I wanted to go to law school. I mean, that's what the plan was going to be. And then when I graduated in December of 92, I ended up going to going home, trying to, you know, working to try to get in law school, but ended up going,

Gene Sharp was a coach at my high school that was kind of helping at my high school, took a job in Hitchcock, and said, why don't you come over and help? And I kind of got the bug when I went over there to do it. And I asked him, I said, look, if I want a coach in college, what's your suggestion? And Bobby Jack Wright was a coach, kind of a legendary assistant coach at the University of Texas for a long time in Oklahoma with Bob Stoops. Well, Bobby Jack started his career. He worked under Coach Sharp at one of the Laredo high schools

or Mission High School down in the Valley in Texas. And he said, Bobby Jack went and started his career at A&I, which now is A&M Kingsville, which he happened to coach Dale Green. And that kind of got him going. So I said, well, I'm all in. Can you help me? So he called Ron Harms, who's incredible. I mean, the college football Hall of Fame had won a lot of games.

A&I had an unbelievable football history when you just look at it in totality. I mean, from Daryl Green to Gene Upshaw to John Randall. And then the group we had, when I got fortunate enough to be there from Jemay Mayberry, who was a first round picked by Philly, Al Harris, who played for, you know, 14, 50 years, Floyd Young. I mean, I can go on and on. We were, Robert Garza played for us for 14 in Chicago. So I'm in Kingsville for seven years with this talent. Yeah.

And you're learning it all because like Division 2 football, it's not much different. I mean, of course, on a bigger scale, but like we had 36 scholarships and nobody was on full scholarship. So, you know, the offense would get 17, the defense would get 17, then Coach Harms would get two to play with. And so, but we would, and nobody was full, so you'd have point three. 36 scholarship for room and board. Wow. I remember Garza, Robert, like, I think we got Robert on books. He was at Rio Hondo High School.

He was a defensive end at Rio Hondo High School. And Coach Harms saw him, recruited him. He had this thick lower body. He was a great shot put discus athlete in high school and in college. And I remember I was asking, we wanted him on defense, and he never would give him to us. He kept telling us, this kid's going to be an NFL center one day. I'd be damned if he was not right. I mean, he got drafted in the fourth, and the rest of his history.

He played a long time in the league. So that, it was something that I kind of fought, but once I got the bug, I knew I wanted to stay in football in some capacity. Yeah. Kind of learning the salary cap there, too, a little bit, like the infant stages of man. All of it. How to line fields. I mean, you name it. In Division II, you had to do it.

And plus having the athletes we had, I mean, I look back all the time. I mean, chaos was just, it was just normal in Kingsville because. Well, it's kind of almost better than like being at Texas where you have all this support. And you know what I mean? Like to learn, because it's not the same duties or the same chores, but to learn, like, when you get to the GM job, it's not this, you know, draft day, Kevin Costner where you just put your board together. Like, there's a lot of, there's. Your day is full of moving parts and putting out fires and everything else.

Oh, you have no idea. And Kingsville back, I mean, the eligibility rules were much different then. Like, we could get Prop 48s into school back then. So what that meant, instead of going to J.C., they would come to a, they could be eligible for a division two school. So we made a living off going. I'd go into high schools and, you know, Texas and A&M would be recruiting these kids. And I'd ask, oh, can I see the?

their transcript. And I would just, we would hang around long enough to make sure that if that kid didn't make it, he ended up, you know, in Kingsville. And so we were, we were really loaded with talent. And then, then you had all these NFL people coming in. That's kind of what my in connection to the Bears ended up being, because Rustin Webster would come in. He was working for Tampa at the time. And every year, he'd come in twice. Nobody came to Kingsville twice. But he would come twice. He'd come in August and he would come again in December late in early December as we were always

a playoff team and I'd always say what are you coming back for? He goes because you all always have somebody pop up and he was right and they had six guys on their roster in Tampa when Tony was there when Dungey was there he had Carl Williams end up playing 10 years for him, Dawkins, Diaz Al Harris and Floyd Young

and then Jerry Angelo was the assistant GM and so when Jerry He asked Rustin, hey, who's helping you? And he said my name. And so Jerry came down, would start coming to, personnel director, coming to Kingsville. Like, that just does not happen. And so when he took the job in Chicago, I get a call and he just says, look, you're kind of wasting a way down there in Kingsville, Texas.

You think you'd like to scout. It was not even in my radar to do. But I thought, you know what? I'm going to take a shot and, you know, maybe I have a chance to move up in the coaching world. So that's kind of how it all evolved. And you wind up there in Chicago, climbing the ladder, kind of doing it the old school way, area to scout moving up for over a decade, right? Yep.

And then you move on to the Kansas City Chiefs and continue to kind of grow your role with the Chiefs until, what, 2016, 2017. Yep. and then you get the head job here. At the pro level, if you were to pinpoint maybe one or two individuals or who you've learned the most for, who prepared you the most for when you got this head job? Well, there's a lot. I mean, you learn something from everybody. I mean, you're with.

I mean, I learned from our scouts. I mean, I still do today. I mean, like for me, and you're right, I was. I was in an area scout for a long time. and I was very patient. Like, in my thinking, I was always about, all right, what kind of information am I getting?

Yep. All right? And is it valuable information that's helping me grow? Was my work valued? And then did I like and respect the people I worked for? And if I said yes to those three, money was not, that was kind of inconsequential. I was not,

I was more worried about the growth factor than I was anything else at that time in my career. And Jerry Angelo, was outstanding. He was a good GM. He was a freaking really good GM. And he knew football, any new players, and he knew how to articulate it in a way where coaches understood it. You know, he could speak their language. So he was, I mean, instrumental in my growth over time. But, you know, in Chicago, we were fortunate because we had a, you know, Bobby DePaul was incredible. I mean, he was, was our pro director and he was brilliant with personnel. Greg Gabriel was the college director. Greg was worked for the Giants all those years and was outstanding. So everybody we worked,

you know, I've kind of come into contact. You take something from him. Lovie, you know, what we did defensively there with Lovie and, you know, Rod Marinelli had such a big impact. He was probably one of the best assistant coaches I've ever been around in a teacher. So everybody had an impact. And then when I went to Kansas City with John, with Dorsey, I mean, Dorsey's probably the best pure evaluator I've been around unequivocally. You're at least the second, maybe the third. Oh, yeah.

No. GM who said that. He can look at it and see it and see it quickly. Really? He's really special at it. Yeah, he's really special at it. But in that room in Kansas City when I went there, like we were, it was a talented group now.

I mean, you had Brett Veach, he had Ryan Poles, you had Borganzi. They have a guy there now by name of Ryan Nutt, who I think is really special as an evaluator, Brandt Tillis. I mean, it was a really talented, you know, personnel group. Yeah. And Lord, I mean, and very challenging. I mean, because like they knew. We had Poles and Borganzi in here back to back.

Yeah. They were living together, apparently. Yeah. They did one point. And they were really young. I mean, that was 2013. They were popping, yeah, coming from B.C. Yeah, that was, so they got there with Scott.

Pioly had hired them, then John kept him on. And that was in 2013. So, I mean, you know, that was a long time ago. And, but it was fun. It was really fun. I mean, it was a challenging group because they knew what they were doing. And, like, you grow when you can stretch each other mentally. That's how you grow.

Yeah. It's interesting because you've kind of got that tree. with a lot of branches. And then having some of the Ravens guys, right, with Ozzy and some of the brand, we had Ortiz in here and Joe Douglas and Andy Whittal. And so it's kind of cool to see how. But I think both places, a common denominator is competition is the great motivator and drives you, right? Yeah.

And doing it within the framework of team. Yes. Which is very difficult for people. And like I pride myself on being a good teammate, still today. I mean, that's like the core of what we do in football requires good teammates. It doesn't always happen, but to me that's as important to trade anybody can have is what kind of teammate are you? And it can be very difficult because the money's gotten so big.

But we had a, I've been fortunate because every place I've been, I've never had a bad boss. I mean, I have, some by choice. I've turned some things down. And I was very patient because I believe in people. And I was not going to be miserable. Like, I refused to work in a situation that I was not going to be happy. Life's too short.

And so that means, you know, sometimes your career, I think it's my 26 year in the NFL. And it didn't happen instantly. But I'm glad it didn't because I look back and I'm like, thank God I didn't take that job. You know, it was just in people. My gut usually told me with people, okay, this is somebody I want to work with, you know, and be with, because you're around each other so much.

Like, you can wear each other out if you're not careful. And if you're working with somebody that got their own agenda, that's not fun. That's not good for the team. I'm curious. I'm just kind of think of this as we're talking here. One day we all retire. right? When you retire

and maybe some people who've worked under you we know who you're about the person, the teammate, the leader, right? I think that's pretty public, it's certainly public knowledge within the NFL community. I'm curious, what would people who worked with you say

these were his scouting principles? This is why he had so much success, evaluating talent. This is what I learned from him. These are the things that he was strong on. Look, they know one you got to work like that's a gift

like you got to put your eyes on the tape yeah okay we can and look I am into analytics I am into the numbers I am into thinking differently yeah but at the end of the day it's all just a tool a supplement right

to help you watch the tape and I would I would hope people would tell you I was very open minded um I'm not close minded. You don't have to make a decision until you have to make a decision. It's okay to be wrong. It's okay to be wrong because at the end of the day we want to be right on draft day.

So between January and April when the draft starts, I mean, you've got to be able to process and take in all this information and tape and you're going to see, and I'm telling you, like you can watch the same game three times. You're going to see something different. Isn't it crazy? But you've got to be willing to do that. And you've got to be able to do it. Like any mistake I've ever made in the draft usually comes because I make my mind up too soon. And I don't thoroughly go through it and keep looking for holes.

I mean, I've just done it so long now. I've trained myself that if I really love a prospect, I will spend three months trying to figure out why I shouldn't like him. So I would hope our guys would tell you something along those lines that the work. the tape, being open-minded and being a good listener. I hear it all in our room, and I want an open room, and I want people to challenge, and I hear it all, because you never know when the one voice is right. And it's hard to be the outside voice in the room

when everybody's against you. Like, that's not for everybody. No. But that might be the one person who's seeing it right. You can't close your eyes, and think that this person's wrong. And so I would hope, and I think we have a very talented group, and I hope as they go through their careers, that's something they take with them.

Let's get to the quarterback position, right? And I'll let the wolves ask all the questions that they want, and I know you've answered a million of them this week. I'm more interested in evaluating that position. You and me both. Most important position in the sport, and it's the hardest one to evaluate. It is because there's so few of them that can really carry a franchise. So what happens, and we're all guilty of it, and I've kind of, like, just one of the real positives I think of NIL, all right?

and I truly believe that if I was a quarterback, it's not about being a first-round pick, about having a career. Yep. And the more snaps you can get in college, the better off you're going to be. I would, every kid I would divide, I said, I don't care if you're the first pick of the draft.

If you've got eligibility left, stay and be as prepared as you can. Because this train does not, when you enter the league, the clock starts. And if you've got a one next to your name, it starts and it's and it's ticking twice as fast as any other player in the drafts caught. So having those guys have play history and being ready is, I think this NIL is going to be very beneficial for both quarterbacks in general, but I think for us, because now they're going to have, if they'll do it, they'll stay in, they'll have longer careers. We're seeing guys with 50-60 starts versus the 20, That's right. You would sure, like the more play experience you have, the more you've seen, the better

chance you have for success when you get into our league. But look, nobody's cornered the market on knowing exactly what works and what doesn't work. And it takes a little bit of luck. It takes a, you know, a kid that's failed and struggled, I think it's a good thing because they're going to struggle at our level. and got told our media the other day and I've said it a few times.

Like, it's rare when a quarterback comes in and just lights it up right away. And they got to fail. They got to go through some hard stuff. They got to stand on the edge of the abyss and not jump. Yeah. And handle it. I was fortunate to be with Alex Smith in Kansas City

who had first pick of the draft, injured, benched. They let walk and free, he ended up going back in free agency, but it was like year eight before it really came. When we got him in Kansas City, it was your eight or nine. And I'd ask him a bunch of question about,

like, how did you manage it? It just, I think just his resolve of who he is, you know, how he was raised, and who he is as a person, it just strengthened over time. Not many can handle that kind of failure. Yeah.

That's a, that's not. for everybody. Well, how about the guy that you brought into town last year? Very similar. It's a... Daniel Jones came in the league with the one next to his name. Yeah, very similar. In that media market. Yep. Right?

Very similar situation. Even the injury stuff, when you look at that, I mean, Alex had a shoulder that he missed a year with. So, no, it's a... And you're seeing these quarterbacks that are going one place not succeeding.

riding right away, go into another place, and eventually kind of, if they've got enough, if they won't jump into the abyss, if they've got enough talent, if they got enough talent, they'll come back around and they'll get a shot at it. That's changed. I feel like even, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, maybe just 10. If you didn't make it, it was kind of over. That's where Alex was different because he was in Frisco for, you know, Seven years, I think seven or eight years before he came to us in Ken's City.

So that was a little different. But now, now, no, it's two years. And, like, it's panic mode. Yeah, it's panic mode. But then we're seeing guys resurface other places. Absolutely. Which is different. I feel like they, if you were done, you were done.

You're out of this league. Yeah. You know, so that's. Yeah. No, and that's one of the, like, it's easy to criticize what's going on in college football right now. It's still a great sport with the NIO, but saying that, I think there's going to be some positive things come out of this in the long run. Also getting to see what young men do with that kind of money. Yeah, that's my, I could talk for an hour on, you know, leaving and moving

schools and, you know, what's the ultimate goal? Absolutely the goal is to make as much money as you can. But, you know, eventually that faucet's going to cut off. And if you don't play in the NFL, like, what's our next thing? Yeah. You know, degree, I hope you get it. You're used to making a pretty high salary at a young age that now it's actually going to the workforce and they're not going to quite pay you that kind of money. I want to ask you just because you're here today and the news broke that I think another $22 million

for the salary cap. Is that like, are you like a teenager in your parents or sold you had like a higher credit on your credit card? What comes to mind? What immediately do you start thinking about when? We budget out and we try to keep as many of our own guys as we can. So we've kind of, you know, we've got a pretty good. Mike Bloom does a great job for us.

So he does a good job projecting what he thinks it's going to be. And he's usually pretty close. So we've been planning for a while now. And you're not just planning for this year. You're planning for the next two after it. Right. So to me, it's always kind of a rolling. average of how you're going to keep your team

together and build and then how can you attack free agency and do you want to attack free agency? That's always the right piece has got to be there and you've got to find a match and it can't be out of whack. So it's this time of year is always really interesting.

How do you feel about your team for next year? This is the only question I asked like that. No, no, no, no. We got work to do. Like I think eight and two, like the start, eight and two was real, but we can't just sit here and act like the eight losses in a row wasn't real, too. I mean, that's an issue. You don't lose that many.

Good teams don't lose that many in a row. And really, there's no, like, I don't deal with excuses really well. Like, we've got to learn how to win the ugly, and we didn't do it last year. I thought at one point early in my career here, we did, but we've kind of lost it over the last three or four years, and that's what we have to get back. We have work to do up front and to make, because I just, I mean, Daniel's, you know, that's a whole other story, you know, getting him back in the fold, which we want to do. But I just believe up front, if you're good, when you get into December and January, that helps carry you. I feel good about where we're going, but we've got work to do. Yeah.

All right. Five questions that I end all of these conversations with. I think people are curious, and we've had a lot of ranging answers. How big is your final board? Like when you sit there the first night of the draft, how many players? I know it can vary by class, but approximately, how big do you like to keep your board in front of you for draft weekend? Every year's a little different. But this year, like, I'm hoping we can get to 100.

Really? I like it. We were one, I think, 160 a year ago. Oh, you were? We'll hover between 150 to 170. And finally, Ed, our assistant GM is really good. He's been on me. Let's cut it back.

We're going to shoot to try to get it at 100. You're going to get nervous in certain rounds? No. We've got it figured out. Dorsey had a formula, really good formula that I, use, we use. No, you don't, everybody, I mean, look, scouting world's flatter

than it used to be, unequivocally. Like, everybody's got access to tape. There's not as many hidden gyms as I would tell you 15 years ago when I was, you know, still on the road scouting. Saying that, everybody's different. Like, I think once you get past

the super premium player at the top, and it might be five in a draft, there might be 10, after that, it's a crap shoot 11 through you know the next 150

every you could look and everybody's board and it would be different there'd be a lot of the same names but it would be a different look this just kind of popped in my head without the first rounder I feel like we could talk a little bit

more at ease but what do you do in a draft class when maybe three or four of the best players or positions that are not premium positions and then you get some other players at premium positions that may not carry the same grid You don't ever pass up in my mind, what you think is a impact player. Like when we took Quentin, that was a criticism.

And, you know, he's on his way of the Hall of Fame. I just don't, if the guy's special and you think he's going to be a blue premier player in this league, regardless of a position, you just take him. I think that's kind of how the top of this board is going to wind up playing out. All right. there's so many parts of your job, right? You get tugged in all these different directions, and I'm sure it's not when you first got in that seat and went through the first few months.

It's probably different than even what you imagined in some ways. But when you get a free couple hours, and what is it that you go back to, what is it that you love the most about this job still? It's the players. Like, that will never go away. No, it's the players that play. game. That's why we got jobs. I mean, I never lose perspective of that. And I think one of the real

cool things that we get to do, if you just pay attention, like having a guy at 21, they're not men yet coming in this league. They think they are, but they're not. But to watch them go from a 22-year-old kid, bright-eyed, excited to 28 years old, still in the league, but now engaged or married, they have families, watching them have success both on and off the field. Man, that is, the one thing I missed about coaching was that daily interaction back and forth, all right, because you really can make an impact in a young person's life when you're coaching. But what I found is, like, you can do it in this role too. Now, they're going to be pissed at me at some point because of money.

Yep, yeah. But I always warn them when they come in his rookies, like, hey, they're going to come a time when you don't like me because of finances. Don't let that get in the way of our long-term relationship. I'm all right if you're pissed at me for a year, year and a half, but understand that I've got this pie and I can only pay so many. But I want players to do well. I love to watch them grow, and I love to watch them have success.

The challenging part, right? Let's phrase it like this. if you got a, I don't know, 30-plus-year-old, long-time scout who's seeking to become a general manager, he's kind of on that track. If you could go back and almost warn a young Chris Ballard, but someone who you're trying to maybe mentor, what would you warn is the most challenging part of being in this seat? I don't. And to maybe prepare for or to look, I mean, look, I haven't worked a day since I've been loved. I can't like there's some hard parts of the job that you don't always enjoy but I don't ever like dread them if that makes sense I mean

nothing's like look we've been five years no not been in the playoffs and having to go answer to the media which they deserve like our fans deserve that and I give as much time those are not easy to do yeah and I'm pretty real and raw so you what you see is what you get so they they get to see all of it. But that's part of the job. You'd much rather be sitting there after a division championship. You're nice and free.

But those are the hard parts. Then the narratives that get sometimes created that are not true, and you can't run them all down. There's just too many false things out there. So it's hard to, the things you can't control, you've really got to learn to discipline yourself that, okay, I'm just going to focus on. here's the stuff I can control. And then you don't ever want to lose.

Like I tell our, like, Gentlemanor's just a title, all right? It's not who I am. I don't, it's not who I am. And like respect goes out, like, for about a month or two, just because of the title, people are going to treat you differently. But eventually when rubber hits the road, you got to be competent. And people, they have to trust you. and your work.

And so that, and that takes real work and growth along the way. Because as you go through this and you have these up and down days, and I'm not perfect by any stretch. I have my bad days. But the building's following your lead. Every time you walk in a building, if you're pissed off, every time you walk in, man, everybody else is going to be pissed off.

So I learned that from Coach Reed. Andy. Andy was the same guy every day. It's what I loved about him so much. Like he never, like win or lose? Like he's upset if we lost, of course. but like he stays on to the next thing. Yeah.

It's easier said than done. He's easier than done. And I'm an emotional wreck on game day, so yes. I'm not good at some of it. All right. Tell me about a time that you feel like you failed at something that was important, but then what you learned from that. Look, since Andrew retired, this is a, like, I'll just take my current, you know, the job.

Like, since Andrew retired, and look, I knew how specially was. I knew, like when I took the job in Indy, him being hurt when I got in the building and then missing that first year, then coming back and playing. And then when he retired, which I respected because of what he had been through, but not being able to get, solidify that position for the organization, has been extremely, extremely humbling. And, but what I've learned going through that is that, like, you got to continue, you can't get timid about taking shots at the position. You got to just keep firing away and taking the bullets. Yeah. Because you're always going to get bullets anyways. So just keep firing away until you get it right.

And you can't lose your confidence. You've got to learn and grow of why you made the mistake you made. but don't blame others, learn from it, grow, and keep the gun out and fire away. I like that. All right, this is the most important question. Your draft spread. You're a Texas guy. I've got to believe.

I've got to believe that you don't care? I'm not an eater, so not on draft day. I mean, like smoothie king. I live in smoothie king. Chris. You can ask Connie. It was going so well. You can ask Matt.

I'm not a, matter of fact, I'm on a, I mean, because I'm Catholic, so now, I'm, today's Friday, so I'm fast, I'll fast all the way till tomorrow. And so I'm, I don't, I mean, they do a great job. They cook steaks, but I don't, I don't know. Do you eat after the drugs? Yeah, I'll snack around. But you don't put in any. I mean, that's my issue. I snack. I will just graze for 24 straight hours if they have it around. So, but no, it's not a priority with me. I'll let everybody else kind of handle that. I guess I'm just going to have to move on, huh? I appreciate it, man.

Thanks for having me. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-88-889-77777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

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