The McShay Show - Day Two From the Combine: Prospects Under the Most Pressure in Indy. Plus, Titans GM Mike Borgonzi.

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Welcome to The McShay Show! The guys are back for the second part of their NFL combine primer to share 10 players who are under the most pressure to perform in Indy. Then, they’re joined by Tennessee Titans GM Mike Borgonzi, who goes behind the scenes of the drafting of Cam Ward and shares other stories about his life as an NFL decision-maker. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!2:05 NFL Combine coverage: day two9:15 The latest news on combine participants14:30 The 10 combine prospects with the most on the line 49:45 Titans GM Mike Borgonzi joins the show51:20 Mike's journey into becoming an NFL executive57:05 Hiring Brian Daboll to develop Cam Ward1:00:35 Drafting Cam Ward1:04:40 Once you have a franchise QB, what's next? Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.com The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve Muench and Mike BorgonziProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Day two of Combine coverage here from Indianapolis. We've got Intel to share with you. We've got a general manager who sat down with us and gave us a lot of good intel himself. And also, 10 players that absolutely need it. You know what we need? The clock to stop rolling because there's only 58 days left until the NFL draft. Mench, you good? I'm good, man.

Tucker roll that beat, please. Let's get right into it, Mitch. We've had a busy day already. I taped a couple of GM interviews. One we'll share with you later today. You can feel it now in the streets. I'm out walking in the morning. You see it's scouts and general managers and everyone from around the league.

The players are showing up talking to scouts who had interviews with the defensive linemen. As you see here, the edges, the interior guys, they're getting ready to work out on Thursday. We've had a lot of GMs and head coaches at the podium sharing with all the media. And look at this beautiful setting. That's where our hotel is right there in the circle. It's not a square. And we're enjoying our time. Man, we're excited about this new partnership.

This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four-wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list at Scout Motors.com, just like I just did. concept vehicles not available for sale features and performance specifications are preliminary

and subject to change joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase visit scout motors com for details i thought this is interesting let's just dive into it brett vich had a kind of a quote that i saw and he's not one of the guys we've talked to yet and we'll sit down with him and i worked with brett with the kansas city chiefs when i was doing preseason games for them he may had a quote i'll read it to you actually he says at the And this is talking about premium position players. This is the biggest story in this year's draft, I believe. You can talk about Mendoza.

We kind of know how that's all going to work out. Then you get who are the best players in this draft? And what's uncommon about the 2026 NFL draft is that the best players, or many of them, at the top of a lot of teams' boards, are not necessarily from positions of high priority, right? This was his quote, talking about Sunny Stiles, the linebacker from Ohio State. Arvel Reese to a certain degree, although most teams have just kind of shifted him to that edge designation. And he'll be working out, this is not breaking news, but it's kind of a nugget for you.

Arvel Reese will be working out as an edge in that edge group, okay? So Sunny Stiles, Jeremiah Love, the Notre Dame running back, and Caleb Downs, Ohio State Safety. This is what he had to say. At the end of the day, you want a guy who's going to be a great contributor on the field and off the field. stick to the mantra, take the best player available. But then there's also so much talk about you get premium players in the draft and you get non-premium players and free agency if you can. So a lot of differing opinions.

And let's not also forget, Brett Veach is the general manager of a Kansas City team that's sitting there at number nine that may want Jeremiah Love running back to fall to him. But he's saying take the best player on the board. I only use that as a jumping off point. You know I'm not a big quote guy from this media frenzy where everyone gets up in the podium. I'd rather just sit down with them as we have with Elliot Wolf yesterday,

as we did with Mike Borgonzi from the Tennessee Titans today. We'll have Ryan Poles, the general manager for the Chicago Bears, is part of our show, I believe, tomorrow. And we've got three or four more general managers lined up to talk to you this week. We're kind of pumped about it, honestly, because it was one of my visions, like, I just don't think the general managers, like, people don't get to know them. It's a transactional relationship with this.

his GMs. Oh, he sucks, man. He drafted this player. What a horrible free agent move he made. Or man, he's so good. He had this trade and we got all these draft picks. But like get to know the person behind these decisions. What goes into the decisions? What are the backgrounds? So we've done a whole decision maker series on this and his GMs have been awesome, great discussions. Because I'm friends with a lot of them. A couple of them I don't know that well. And now I feel like I do and like exchanging cell phone numbers. And so That's been cool to see. But I see this quote from Brett Veach, who I do know pretty well.

And it's interesting and only that I start to look at this draft board, right? Vegas picks it one. They take Fernando Mendoza, lock that in. We all know. And we can have the discussion, should they? Are they ready organizationally for him? Is he Drake May? Is he Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels?

I tried to merge those two names for a second. That wasn't going so well for me. but he's going to the Raiders at 1. Then you've got the Jets at 2. I saw Kipe today. I didn't read his mock. Mel, I didn't read your mock.

Never read your mock unless a producer told me I had to read certain picks to argue about. But I saw something on social media where it was a big buzz. Mel loves his buzz this time of year. He's not at the combine, so we're going to get some... I love you, Mel. Caleb Downs, number two, picked to the Jets. Interesting.

Gets your grain. My God, do they need something different besides a safety, but that's neither here or there. But they really could use a wide receiver. They potentially, I think more edge. Yes, I agree. Arvel Reese makes a lot of sense. But then Arizona, offensive line edge, Tennessee, offensive line and wide receiver. We'll talk to see what you guys think after you listen to our interview with Mike Burgundy.

Just awesome. Everett guy, another mass hole running an organization in the league. We love it. Giants wide receiver. offensive line. They need interior defensive line too. That run defensive horrible, but they're not a guy to take five. Cleveland just got

off the phone with one of the Cleveland radio station talking offensive line, wide receiver. Do we take the alignment or the receiver first? Washington, edge, corner, linebacker. Washington's at seven. That's the first time you look at a team and say, huh, also could use a safety.

So you get down to seven before a team would have to do what Brett Veach is saying. just take the best player on your board. How does this play out is the question, you know? Because New Orleans then running back possibility. Chiefs at number nine, running back possibility. That's kind of that 7-8-9 is where I could see

if you're trying to match value with need, a Sunny Stiles, a Jeremiah Love, a Caleb Downs, right? Yeah. Does it shift differently? Maybe he's Kuiper ahead of the curve, with Caleb Downs going to because he's one of the best three or four football players

in this draft? Or are we going to see these edges and a quarterback and edges and offensive linemen and maybe a wide receiver sprinkled in there with those first six picks? Yeah, I mean, recent history tells us

that, you know, that's... I love to say that too. Everyone loves to say, take the best player available and, I mean, it would be an easy draft. Your mocks would be so easy because this is how they're all going to roll off the board, right?

Ask the Raiders if that's maybe the best approach. last year. You get Ashton Genti, who is a heck of a running back prospect. They weren't ready to support him. They take him at, I think it was seven, correct? I mean, the talent's there, the value is in terms of who the player is, but at the same time, you had other needs and probably could have addressed other positions and put that guy in a better position to succeed. So I get it in a bubble, and he's a great, great talent of value. But it's tough to really do that and pull the trigger. Downs actually, too, is interesting to me because I do think they need a

a culture, you know, a tone setter and Caleb Downs can absolutely be that guy. Even with that being said, it's tough to avoid, to not target one of those other positions in my mind. There's Intel, and it's not like breaking news or anything like that, but we're starting to get a clearer picture of who's working out and who's not working out. And then I want to get to some of the guys that absolutely have to have great weeks in Indy. And we're not the biggest, like, analytic guys. there's a place for all of this involved. And the workout numbers at certain positions, certain measurables, the measurables that matter that we've talked about,

like they all factor in. Some are more important than others. And the week here is critically important for the interviews, the medical, and then you get a medical recheck if you need that. And so there's a lot of those guys we want to get to that maybe it's not just the workouts. Maybe it's some of the medical or the character or whatever it is. So we've got 10 guys we want to get to. here's the information we have of this at this moment

Jordan Tyson and Ruben Bain will not work out Ruben Bain is choice Jordan Tyson is he's still recovering from was a hamstring injury I think so, leg injury that honestly makes sense like if you can buy yourself another three, four weeks to get right train and run the best time I understand that can I just I understand and I think you're right

If you're not ready to run, don't run. But it's unfortunate for him because of the injury history. And now we have another thing. Well, the kid couldn't run at the combine either. Totally great. Some other players. Eight games missed. Also a season missed in between transferring from Colorado to Arizona State.

Right. So if you don't have the injury history, it's a little easier. For him, it's unfortunate, you know. The thing people should know is Jordan Tyson from Arizona State, if clean medically, if there wasn't that history and concern, it's tight between Cornell Tate, Mikhail Leman, and Tyson.

I think you've seen this start because now when you're watching film, there's not a big separator between those three. Yeah, they're different kinds of receivers in different ways, but they all are very similar grade. But now as teams are starting to talk a little bit and scouts are getting word out

and I think you're seeing, like, media-wise, Tyson's starting to kind of lag behind those two, right? Yeah, I agree. And it's because of what we tried to tell people a couple months ago. That's going to be the thing with him. And so to your point, it's not ideal that he's not ready, but also don't go and tear something. Exactly.

So that you can't go to your pro day and work out. You can't have private workouts and all of that. So he's doing the right thing. It is just unfortunate. Right. So Jordan, here's what's, here's who's in this year. I know.

This is, I'm excited about this. Jordan loves running a 40 and doing all the position drills, more than probably thought might happen. Arguably the best player in this draft. Arvel Reese is working out as an edge, as we told you. Sunny Stiles is working out. If you watch yesterday's show, Sunny Stiles may be this year's Nick Eamon Worry.

Like get the viral stuff ready, you know, get your thumbs working because he's going to do some things that are just, He and Arvel Reese, I think, are going to be two of the biggest stories coming out. There's a reason they're working out here. Because Ohio State guys, like that 39-yard downhill 40 in Columbus, right? There's a lot of schools that have this reputation, but yes. Mackay Lemon is doing, he's doing position drills. He's not running his 40.

He's going to wait until the USC Pro Day to do that is my understanding. But he'll do the position drills. So the only two guys that I know of definitively who are out are Bain and Tyson. It doesn't mean that they're the only two. We obviously have a bunch of guys who we just know who aren't working out that I won't mention here because of some of the injury stuff that occurred. So with that as the backdrop, I want to get into the 10 players that have the most on the line is what we're calling it. But quite frankly, like, these guys need it the most, I think this week is the way I'm in my mind. mind framing it at least. But I do know that you have some really exciting information to share

about the McShea report. And I'm glad I don't have to shill for it at once. Yeah, put me on the spot. Let's see how this goes. Yeah. We got a sale. We got a sale. 20% off the first three months, which is a great deal. 20% off. Get in. Get in now. Listen, get it, get in, Get in now. What's the pockets that coming out of? I, listen, we'll talk about that in a second. So 20% off for the first three months, or you know what an even better deal is? What? 30% off for a year.

30% off for a year. And think about the year. You get all the, I don't think people understand. I do wonder who the geniuses are who are sitting back and like punching numbers and, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You get all this draft prep. And I think you may be like, oh, well, why would I do a year? Think about all the, you're getting ready for the college football season.

We do so much stuff then. You want to know about guys going into the year. where they are. For the 2027 draft, we're giving it a monster draft. What are we doing? Yes, and listen. That's why Dan had you read this.

Yeah. My daughter needs a new pair of shoes, man. And listen, McShea's nice. He's not that nice. So you get, it ends next week. So you've got to get in now. And the reason it ends next week is he's not going to have to discount that stuff. We're going to come out of the combine.

People are going to realize we're really starting to pick up steam. Top 100's rolling out right after the combine. And McSheaie is going to take that nice little offer. He has for you. Lock 3.0s in like two weeks. And take it away. But tomorrow, though, all joking aside, and we appreciate everyone who does subscribe. Go to Google, just type in the McShay report and hit the subscribe button there.

And you can subscribe for free, but the premium stuff is going to start to roll out, and it's just that time of year. Tomorrow we have appointment viewing. These are the guys that are appointment viewing, and maybe a name or two of these will be in that list. But we're going to roll out 10 guys, and we've got some other interesting nuggets to throw in there as well. So it starts tomorrow from the Combine for the McShay report. be in your inbox if you subscribe and you don't have to go searching for it. So that's the pitch on that. Why don't you kick things off?

You're going to do five guys. I'm going to do five guys. The most on the line. This comes with Intel talking to people. Like, we're very fortunate to have the contacts that we do and talking to people in the league. And these are the guys that they're talking about, like, man, we need to see something from these guys this week or else it might not play out the way that they're hoping, you know? Yeah. I mean, a player that jumps out to me immediately is Miami quarterback Carson Beck, and I get it that we're not talking about a top 10 pick.

We're not talking about a guy that's... It's interesting. He's got no buzz. It's... I get the Mendoza stuff and he's not working out here. I should have mentioned that. I thought that was obvious. But everything's about Ty Simpson here because we saw Garrett Nussmeyer, right, at the senior board. And so he's kind of checked that box clear.

Here we go. But Ty Simpson is the big story. But Carson Beck has been kind of... It's been quiet since that national championship game. Yeah, and there's three elements to it for him, right? I mean, you start with the fact that the medical, he had a serious injury who was throwing elbow at the end of the 2024 season and look great last year and held up really well, but I think there's teams are still going to want their medical professionals to get in there and check it out. I think the interview process is going to be huge for him. You know, some of the stuff that he, like, why did you leave Georgia?

How are you handling your business going into the season? All of that stuff's going to come up and it gives them a great. Listen, all of these guys you can look at is they, there's some pressure. Great opportunities, though. This is a great opportunity for him. And then I think when you get to the on-field workout, we're going to see the deep ball. You know, watch the tape, you've got some concerns about the deep ball.

How does he throw the deep ball here? And it won't be... And it won't be... Listen, everyone's always like, well, it's not his receivers and he's not used to these guys. You know what? If you know that, and I know that, general managers and decision makers know that too.

They're going to account for that. So it'll be interesting to see... I just want to see how it lets it rip. And I hope he just lets it rip and let's it go. I think he's got, you know, that quarterback three, I think, is up for grabs, and I think he's got a great opportunity here to take advantage of that. You're talking about the three after Mendoza being Ty Simpson, Beck, and Nussmeyer?

I think Simpson's probably going to be two, I think, but Beck and Nussmeier and who, in that kind of a battle for who quarterback three will be. Can he get three? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I'm not if I was clear about that. I just misunderstood what you said, but you're absolutely right. Okay. Cassius Howell. Dear guy, you love it. Cassius Howl. Cash is freaking howl, man. Classic, classic.

Watched him in September screaming on this show about this guy is next. October, same. I did a lot of tape on them. We're preparing for our shows, a weekly show, all that stuff. Love them.

Kind of put it on the shelf because I got all these other guys to watch in every position. But we're talking about David Bailey. We're talking about Caldric Falk. Why is the production not there? Kim Messador and Bain from Miami throughout the national championship. Then we get to the senior bowl, and it's Zion Young, loved his tape, by the way.

It's Derek Moore from Michigan. All the R. Mason Thomas coming off the injury. Let's go back and watch the first nine games before he got injured against Tennessee on that 71-yard touchdown run. I just went back to Cassius Howells tape last night because I'm finished. up the top, like, let's call it three tiers, the first two plus rounds of edge rushers, I fucking love Cassius Howell. Quote that, retweet it, that I am in love with Cassius Howell. I'm not saying he's Vaughn Miller, but I watched the Von Miller tape from Texas A&M,

and I got like little tiny vibes. It's not the same thing. Don't get carried away. What I am telling you is I kind of, so he was up here early on my draft boards, like early in the process. Right. We got Bailey doing his thing and Bain and Messador, and all I'm hearing from scouts in the league is, yeah, man, but it's like 31-inch arms. And I'm like, yeah, that's a problem. Because you look at like the measurable that matter literally start with arm length for edge guys.

And then you look at the guys in the league with sub-32-inch arms at edge, and it ain't pretty. And you get down to guys who have a 3-1 to start a 31. and I'm told he might be sub-31. I hope he's something like, does that to his shoulder. But still, and you're going to get a lot of Nick Herbig, right? Because Nick Herbig's the only guy with like that low 31. I think it's 31 and a quarter or something inch length. He was a fourth round pick out of Wisconsin.

I loved Nick Herb. You did love Nick Herbigh. I love Nick Herbig. And now he has seven and a half sacks this past year. But he's also playing in Pittsburgh and he's got a pretty good guy named Watt opposite him. So there's a lot to factor in. And you know what? If the floor for Cassius Howell is Nick Herbig,

you're not pumped that you spend a first round draft pick on him, but it's not a horrible floor. I think throw the floor out. I don't understand why people aren't talking about him as maybe the third best edge in this class. And that's like I think he's better than Messador. You're talking, yes, you're talking. David Bailey from Texas Tech, Rubin Bain from Miami, and then Howells in the mix.

Yeah. I like it. And so I say all this, and so why is it so critically important? Because I can't change his arm length. His arm length is his arm length. Hopefully he has a friendly scout who gives him a quarter of an inch or something. He's going to be around 31 inches, and that is troublesome, okay? But I do want to say this.

You know who else was in the 31-inch range that people don't talk about? Because he was an off-the-ball linebacker, and it wasn't made that big of a deal at the time? Parsons. Michael Parsons. Yeah. 31 and a half inches, okay? But he ran a 439. Yeah.

And he had a 15910 split. And he had a 6963 cone. And he had a 440 short shuttle, which actually wasn't, it's not outstanding. Right. It's good. Not outstanding. But you look at what's important at that edge position. If you're talking about these elite speedsters, I love, I think he's so much more powerful than people think.

I think he plays with more sand in his trunk than his frame indicates. I think he actually takes on, I don't think. I know I watched it again last night, and I was losing my mind, texting you at like 11.30 p.m. He takes on double teams. And even if he can't win it, that son of a gun is going to find a way to hang on and make a play. So what I want to see from him here is your arm length is your arm length. Is he ready to work out and put up numbers that give us the, you know what, he's Harold Landry. I went back, I'm so sick in the head.

I went back and watched Harold Landry, BC last night. I would dust it off that tape and watch Harold Landry at BC. and then looked at his numbers. He was 6-2-252. Parsons was in that same range. I think you're going to see that Cassius Howell shows up at around that same range. Parsons ran a 439.

Landry ran a 464. Landry had longer arms, 32 and 7.8 inches. Three cone was 688, faster than Parsons, 696. Short shuttle is what got him. everyone said well his 40 wasn't that great and he's always 6-2-252 and his arms are still not ideal 32 and 7-8s but he ran a 6883 cone and a 419 short shuttle wow so i need cassius i'm speaking to you cash give me that single shot right now cassius i need you to give me numbers that help me support that you are one of the top three or four edge rushers in this class because i'm willing to

die on that hill with you I think he's going to be special. And this is a positionless defense in the NFL now. We got Benito's and Herbigs and Parsons and Jalen Walker's floating around everywhere, making plays from all over the place. Cassius Howell's got a chance to be special, but if he's going to be drafted like a special player, he's going to have to put up those kind of numbers.

Take a breath. Yep. And let me translate for Todd here for a second. and shut me down if I'm wrong, but I just kind of need to protect you from yourself. He is not saying the Cassius Howell is Michael Parsons. Just to be clear, I don't want everyone going off because he's not saying that.

I will also say... I'm saying that, though, I think he's got a chance to be a special player in the league. And I love Zion Young. And by the way, I love Akeem Messador. I think this edge class is grossly... You love everybody. I don't even know who you are anymore.

I actually like Caldrick Falk! We're going to get into him in a second. So calm down. Calm down. Go next. I really like the player. I don't know if I can go as high as you're going to go with them. But I think I would be kind of surprised.

Early second, I think, is the floor for that kind of a player, I think. I think he should go in the first. Leave first. Oh, I think you should go in the top 20. I know. I know. 20 picks in this draft. Listen, I hear you.

Let's get into Keldrickville right now. If Jalen Walker can go in the top 20, why can't Cassius Howell? I like Jalen Walker's tape better. Oh, you're, no. Nope. I'm just telling you, I do. No. No.

That's fine. I won't accept that as an answer from you. I'm not allowed to have my own opinion. Jaylon Walker was a hybrid combination guy. Like, this guy gets after your ass. He does. As a pass rusher, proven. Right.

20 sacks the last two years. I love the way he gets in. We talk about the short arms. I love the way he gets into guys' frames. I love how he works off contact as a pass rusher. He's not just a guy that's running around people. I do feel like he has a tendency to always work outside instead of mixing an inside moves.

I think guys are going to pick up in that. in the NFL. I want to see him kind of flesh those things out. He can do all those things. I think he's going to be really good. I just, you know, I might have preferred Jalen Walker and sue me for that. Sue me for liking a guy who you love last year too, by the way. You act like you're like Jalen Walker. You love Jalen Walker. We can, we can like them all, right? I just have a preference for, I think Jalen Walker is a little bit better prospect. We're getting to Keldrick Falk right now. You mentioned him already a little bit. The production, let's talk about it. Not good. Two sacks, five tackles for loss. He had no, no sacks over the last eight games, right? So you're

you're worried about that. It shows up on tape. It's a little of it up and down ride, right? But there are things you say, you know, God doesn't make many like them, right? Keldrick Falk is listed at 65-285. I think he's listed at 6-6-285. I had 6-6. Okay.

Yeah, I think he's a tall drink of water. He is 20 years old. I know. He's one of the youngest players in this entire draft. So he's 20 years old. You're looking at that. You know you don't. have a finished product. And when I

mean this as a compliment, he doesn't look 285 on tape. And what I mean by that is he looks like an NBA power forward. He looks like he's 235, 240. And like today's NBA. Yeah. Not our NBA growing up in the 80s. He just, the way he carries that weight. Yeah, he's not Anthony

Mason. The way he carries his weight is impressive for a human being that size. This is a player that we talked about maybe potentially being in the top five when we came into the season. Obviously, the production hasn't been there, the tape hasn't been there. I think he's got to have a good week, kind of stabilized things.

We talked about T.J. Parker doing it at the Senior Bowl. This is Falk's opportunity to do it here. I think he can. I think he will. And I think when we come out of this week, we're going to be talking about Keldrake back in that earlier than he's going now. Because I think you had him in your last mock. Correct me, if I'm wrong, sliding behind Messador. I think Falk's got a chance to really move back

upboards with what he does here. I'm telling you, when we're done here, I think, let's count them. we're counting Arvel Reese. Arvel Reese. Bain. Bailey. Bain.

Oh, so yeah, Bailey. Yep, Bain. Howell, Messador. And let's say Falk. Parker. Parker. And we're missing one. Zion Young.

Is he going to get in there? I think Zion Young is an absolute dude. And I get it. But like, I think Zion Young's got a chance to be really, really good. We're at eight. That's eight. I think there could be eight edge rushers in the first round. Dan, look that up.

draft history.com. Let's give them a plug. Drafthistory.com. Great sight. I love that site. Have we in the common draft had eight edge rushers in the first round? I think we could. I think this group is.

I don't think we're all talking about how great this group is. But I don't think we've contextualized it enough. Because maybe there isn't Abdul Carter. And I would argue, I think we're probably more hung up on there's no Miles Garrett it or there's no there's no Bosa brother even though they, but they had all their flaws too. Remember, they ran a 4-8-2 and a 478.

So I don't know. I think this edge class has got a chance to be special, and I think we're going to see that in the first round. All right, let's keep it moving. Yep. Ty Simpson is the next guy for me. My gosh, does he need a big week? And I think he's going to deliver.

I think the thing, and I've said this before, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, he was the best quarterback in the country after nine games this year. from the footwork to the anticipation, to the pre-snap stuff that he was doing, that was pure NFL stuff, to understanding where to go with the ball post-snap. To absolutely, like, he's a schedule guy.

Like, he had the whole offense on schedule. He, like, was organized. And I know these are words, you like, whatever, McShay. I'm telling you, when a quarterback coach is sitting down to watch this stuff and to see what he's doing and how it translates to what you're doing in the NFL, there's an ease in that.

And then the arms. better than people want to get him credit for. And will we see that here in Indy? I think probably so. And that will help people like general managers, quarterback coaches, offensive coordinators, head coaches actually get to see him throw the ball alive. And then most importantly, is he healthy now? He had now, it's reported gastritis. I've never heard of that one before, but there's some kind of down to 190 at the Rose Bowl. He's normally 2.10. Fought through. He had that rib injury. He didn't start throwing. My intel was at the senior bowl.

He was still a week or so away from being able to throw. Okay. No protection late in the season after Venables figured out how to beat that protection is what I saw. And I've kind of confirmed with some other people. And a run game that, like... Didn't exist, non-existent. Yeah.

And Nick Saban's still punching holes and walls and Bear Bryant is trying to get out of the casket. Like, you can't run the ball and be Alabama and finish 126 in the FBS or whatever it was. So, oh, and by the way, your star wide receiver, who's Jeremiah Smith, 1A, 1B, it just disappears. Ryan Williams, you're talking about. Ryan Williams. Ryan Williams were 1A, 1B. All those things.

But no one cares about excuses. People want to see, where are you now? Are you 210 or are you 203? And you're kind of getting back to there. Is your arm better than people say? we haven't seen it. There's a lot that he has to show this week. And then you get to the interviews and meeting with teams.

And that's where I think he's going to kill this process. He's going to crush it. And so I've said 13 all along is the starting point for the Rams with Ty Simpson. And I'm still not backing off of that yet, even though I understand why you can say, well, does Sean McVeigh really want to go from Matthew Stafford to an undersized guy with good arm strength, but not that, you know? Sure, I'm not convinced of anything. We'll get more intel. but I think that is a sensible spot and they also pick it 29 and there's teams between him

that could be looking quietly lurking Jets obviously at 16 Brown's at 24 and could be others this is a big week for him to kind of turn that momentum around solidify himself as QB2 yeah I hear you I'm looking forward to it I to me it's the interview process where he's going to make his hey we'll see about the throwing we want to see the size we want to see the size will be important and all those things. All right, go ahead. Alabama offensive tackle, Caden Proctor, we mentioned him yesterday a little bit. We talked about how we think he's going to have a strong workout.

I'm telling you right now he better. The tape's not there. Like, there's no other way for me to say it without getting into specifically and overly critical right now. But the tape's not there for a first round offensive tackle like we thought that Caden Proctor would be. The other thing that concerns me, and I think he's going to come up during the interview process, I want to see what his weight is. There was a lot of talk about how great it was that he got down, he got his weight down, He got his weight down during the season,

and coach DeBoer started to use him in different ways and start giving him the ball. Everyone loves when the big man gets the ball, myself more than anyone else. That's all true. Why was your weight up? Why was it up in the first place? They said that he lost 20 pounds,

and he was down to 363. Yeah. So we're at 380 pounds. I'm concerned. And then when you look at the tape and you've had that much experience three-year starter and the footworks raw and you're doing things that I think

are frustrating to watch as an offensive line, coach and so, I mean, Caden Proctor's got to have a nice week. You know who else has to have a nice week? Jermad McCoy. Absolutely. He's got to come out of witness protection now. It's time to, like, you know, he turned down the senior bowl. It's all, like, my understanding is it's all been in preparation of this.

And to give you a little backdrop, Jermad McCoy, the most talented cornerback in this class, press man guy smothers wide receivers, gave up, I think, opposing quarterbacks at like 56.3 pass or rating against them. Fluid, smooth, fast, ball skills, all of it. But he, ACL, torn ACL in January when working out last year, 2025, okay? And hasn't done anything. But there was talk about him coming back for the season that wasn't there. Talk about him going the senior bowl. Wasn't there. Now he needs to show up and he needs to get like the medical checks are an obvious. Like any jerk can write that he's got to, you know, the medical clear, the medicals. Yeah, we know that. But I want to see him work out. I want to see this guy compete.

I want him to come out and be like, yeah, I am the number one cornerback. Mansour Delane's an awesome player, but like, come on, I'm the guy. Come show us that, Germant. And how do you show that? The two most important things I tell you all the time with the cornerbacks and NFL teams, like, tell me about your arm length and tell me about your 40. And his arm length is his arm length. You hope 33 is the outstanding. He's probably going to be in like the 32 range. And that's what you hope for. but the 40 440 is kind of the number if you're talking about a top 10 15 pick for a corner who hasn't played in a year you want to see him come out and burn and then you want to see him in the drills the fluidness the turn you and honestly I want to see the confidence in those athletic movements as an evaluator I want to see I know what he looked like in 2024 I saw the oily hips I saw the the acceleration out of cuts plant drive you know but I want to see him do it with

confidence like got the ball let's go here you go as a team would you have questions about why he didn't play this year or is it going to be medical or is it going to be did you make a business decision is that any of that's going to I don't really care that much I just want to know he's healthy he's confident

in his health his doctors are confident in his health our doctors are all that stuff and then I want to see it I'm done I don't want to hear like I don't want to hear stories I want to see it on the field. Miami picks at 11. Dallas picks at 12. That's the jumping off point for cornerbacks in this draft. If McCoy's going to be one of those two picks, or if he's going to fall to 16 to the Jets

or to 20 to Dallas, you know, I think this week is huge for him. Who do you got next? Here we go again. I know you hate this conversation. It's my guy, Utah offensive tackle Spencer Fano, who is going to have. Do you say Fano, his correct name. Is it Fano? Yes. And I keep saying Fano? Yeah. Fano. All right, fine. You could have told me off air, but you waited, apparently.

Yeah. Anyways, here we go again. Short arms. I know. Everyone's going to hate me. A man, she didn't like Will Campbell at LSU last year because he had short arms. As my kids say all the time, you're a hypocrite. Yeah, exactly.

And I'm going to hear it. We'll talk, we'll get into it deeper, but he is going to have shorter than ideal arms. And supposedly, what's the word? 33. What was Will Campbell's? Do you hear about his hands? What was Will Campbell's? I can't remember now.

It was like 32 and a half at the, at the Allster game, but then it went up to like 33 and something at the comma. Okay. Yeah, like his tape. So you're going to die on that hill, the same arm length? I like his tape better. Okay. So I think it's less of an issue for him on tape.

You know what's strange, though, is it supposed he's going to have very small hands. So he's got to come out. There's two things. One, he's got to come out and have the workout that we expect them to have, okay? And I fully expect he's going to take care of that. But you have to keep in mind, as expected, one of the least surprising things every time this year, what happens? quarterback class starts to heat up, the offensive tackle class starts to heat up.

And that's what we're seeing, right? These Monroe Freelings are coming up. Blake Miller for some reason is getting a lot of buzz. All of these offensive tackles. I haven't in the league. I'm talking to guys since November who have been like break. I know, but we're seeing that these guys, all these offensive tackles are starting to move up boards.

And I love how people are starting to take credit for. I was the Freeling guy. I was the Blake Miller guy. Like, we've been trying to tell you since November that these guys are in the same, they're viewed in the same light as the Fonanos and the Maui Noas. and lower-moo, like higher than low-moo, all that. Okay. Sorry.

No, no, you're good. So it's starting to heat up. And so you, I mean, I've had him as my number one offensive tackle. He's got to go out there and say, I know what you saw with the length. I understand that. Look at the tape and look how I move on the field. And I think it between him and Freeling of who has the best on-field workout. Those guys are just, if you like big athletes, guys that can move, the big ballerinas,

these guys are going to be the guys that you want to watch. You know some other big ballerinas. we're going to be able to watch that Saturday. Denzel Boston, Malachi Fields, and Chris Brazel the 2nd. These are ballerinas at wide receiver, and they're big. Yeah. 64209 is what Denzel Boston is listed as. Malachi Fields is verified at the Senior Bowl 6-4-218 pounds,

and Chris Brazzled the 2nd from Tennessee is 65-200 pounds listed, okay? I want to see the smoothness. I saw it all, like here's the deal. If we're going to go organizational chart here, in and out of breaks, like agility, that kind of stuff for a big receiver, it goes brazzle, fields, Boston. If we want to go speed, straight line speed,

it goes brazzle, Boston fields. This is on tape. You want to see ability to adjust and all that kind of stuff. Honestly, all three. Ball in the air, adjusting to the ball. All three are honest. I might go Boston Fields 1A, 1B, and Brazel, but like 1A, B, C.

I want to see, first of all, with Brazel and Denzel Boston, what's the true size? Is Denzel Boston going to be 6027 or is he going to be 603-7? Is he going to be closer to 6-4, you know? I want to see Brazl, is he really 200 or is he like 197? Because he looks kind of lean, but I want to see him like 205, like working up the weight, still running well. The number I care about, the number that truly matters, everyone in the league that's great runs a 4-5-5 or faster. Just about everyone. Go do a search if you want. You want to go, who are your best receivers in the league? Start with Injigba, right?

Go all the way down. Whoever they are, 4-5-5 is the number. In fact, and we'll get to this at the very end. I don't care about the 4-3-5 and fast turn. I just, I don't, I actually kind of don't want them for the most part. I'm worried about the durability. They're tight. For a big guy like this, you give me a 4-5-2. I'm going to celebrate it like a smaller. Like if Mackay Lemon, he's not running. If Omar Cooper Jr. runs a 4-3-9. I'm going to celebrate that 4-39 for Omar Cooper Jr., who's a tough son of a guy I told you. I, absolutely love this cat. Reminds me a Jarvis Landry, but with speed.

I'm going to celebrate the same level if I see a four, five, two, or faster for fields and for Boston, and for Brazel, I better see something close to a 4-4-0 because that's his game, right? But those guys, I think there's a lot on the line to go, like, get under that line and show that they have that competitive speed down the field, because now we're looking at three dudes who are six, four, and above that can run really well. competitive in that range and can do it all with the ball in the air. Yeah, I'd have Boston a little higher on some of those lists, but that's fine.

Go ahead. Hey, Ohio State Corner, Davis-Nig-Binosen. Great job. Great job. Last year at this time, there was some consideration about whether or maybe a little earlier in the process about whether or not he would declare for the draft, and it was the penalties, right? Too many penalties, too many holding.

He really cleaned it up this year. Had a much better year. Now he's got a chance to come down here and have a great. great workout, run well, and I think put himself in that corner three conversation. He could be the third corner off the board if everything goes well this week. To think about where he's come over the last year and the opportunity he's created for himself, I think he's in, look, that's why he needs to have the big week, why he needs to have the great workout is because there is that log jam.

There's log jam at certain positions. And after the top two corners, there are a number of players that could be that third corner off the board. And I don't think he was in that mix going into this year. And now I think he's put himself in a chance, giving himself a chance to maybe do it. He was 21.12 miles per hour at the senior bowl. Fastest player there that was measured on the zebra technology.

I'm told he could run the four threes, man. And we talked about that four four number. Yeah. With his length and you get him in the right scheme fit, I think. And playing with Patricia helped. It's funny you mentioned that because I was, to bring that up too. I think that may have helped him. Here. Yeah? Here.

Trish is one of the great teachers. Everyone we talked to, GMs, coaches alike. He's one of the great teachers and one of the guys in the league. And compete has never been a problem with this kid. I mean, he is one the most competitive guys out there. Last one I'm going to go with is Caleb Banks. Because I thought Caleb Banks, the big defensive tackle, interior defensive lineman from Florida. He's listed at 6-6-335 pounds,

not listed, that's verified from the Senior Bowl. I thought there were moments when he got pissed off and he Flash and he was awesome at the Senior Bowl. I thought there were more moments where he just was going through the motions. So if I'm going to draft a guy who's got maturity questions as a player and quite honestly, like, where is he in his development and his, like, you can't be this talented and not reach a level unless you're up and down in terms of what you're putting in. So I've got to see that, A, he's been putting it in.

I want to see where his weight is, his body fat, I want to see his flexibility. I want to see those things. On the field, I want to see it 5-2 or faster on the 40. And you said it was an interior defensive line. He doesn't have to run 40 yards. Yeah, but I look at the measurables as a matter for interior defensive lineman. Number one on that chart, correlation to NFL success, 40. And there's very few guys that have ever been 330 plus that have run a 4-5-2-0 or faster. He's going to be a rare company if he can do that. And on tape, he looks like someone who could do that. So come out here and show that, okay? Because I, here's the thing as a general manager. This is what I know the conversations are with Caleb Banks. I know them because I'm

having them with these guys. I better be betting on someone who's so special, talent-wise, that I know he hasn't gotten to where he should get. I know he's not making the best decisions. It's up and down. It's erratic on whether he was going to, hey, he was shutting it down for the season. Then someone in the family found out that his draft stock was falling, so he comes back and plays a little bit at the end of the year. He wasn't going to play in the senior bowl. Then he was going to play in the senior bowl. Then he went to practice, but he wasn't going to play in the senior bowl game. Then he was going to play.

Then he was going to play. Then he played. Teams recognized this guy's going to need a little, you know. But if we're going to put that effort in, and if we're going to give away a pick in the top 40, maybe late in the first round for a player who talent-wise might be one of the ten. 15 best than this class, we better know that talent is so special. And we better see that he, in this point in time, that you talk about free agency, contract year, he better be working his butt off right now to get to show us the best version of Caleb Banks, okay?

We just heard a general manager talk to us about being intoxicated with talent and the danger of that. And it's, this is, this is exactly what we're talking about. talking about. So I'm urging Caleb, and it's too late now if he hasn't already, but I would be urging Caleb if I was in Caleb's corner and his team camp, to go intoxicate some people here. You know? Yes. All right. Last thing I want to do here before we let go. By the way, one of the most, all of them have been fascinating in all different ways. This one's great. Mike Borganzi is one of my new favorites in the league, okay? And that's our list right there,

the combine pressure, pressure index. I like that, Dan. Way to show up flying in from L.A. last night. Creating your graphic. Those are the guys, and I had the big guys a wide receiver, and you had the, what did you have? I had the tight ends not named Kenyon and Sadiq. Did you actually talk about that?

No, because I did six guys by accident. Oh. So I did Igbenocen was my fifth. I do more than, I carry my weight a little more than everyone else. Yeah. We tried to cut you in pre, but we can't cut you in post, so we're just going to live with what you gave us. I want to get to this.

I messed it up, apparently. Whatever. Wide receiver, not wide receiver. Fastest 40 times. Here's the list of the guys I think could win it this year. Tell me if there's anyone else on that you want. I hate this game, but go ahead. You don't even have to.

Xavier Worthy has the fastest 40-time of all. Take that graphic down. Xavier Worthy has the fastest of all time. Tucker's the toughest job in America. Tucker's one of the best human beings of all the time. I know. I know. People have ever worked with.

Maybe stop abusing him. I don't abuse anyone. Brendan Thompson from Washington State is the odds-on favorite. If you look at some, the Fanduil, if it's up yet. Mississippi State or? Mississippi State, sorry. Malik Benson is up there, Oregon. Yeah.

Dionne Burks, Oklahoma. We're going to be talking about Benson, I think. Barry and Brown, my guy from LSU, ran 20.8 at the Senior Bowl. Not as fast as Igmanoson with that 21.12. You know who else? I mean, we've talked about it before. 21.02 miles per hour at 228 pounds. Mike Washington, he's going to be fun to watch.

Anyway, Brendan Thompson's the name that everyone's waiting, you know, looking for. Then it's Malik Benson, Dionne Burks, Berrien Brown. I've heard a little bit about Desmond Reed, Pittsburgh, but those are the guys. Here's my warning. buyer beware. Now you can throw the graphic up top. Look at these names, man, and look how much higher they wound up going in the draft.

Chris Johnson had a great career. Darius Hayward Bay bust. Yomond figures didn't figure it out. Ty Hill, Jacoby Ford, DeMarcus Van Dyke, Josh Robinson, Marquise Goodwin, you know, injuries, as I talked about, the tight twitch. Drey Archer running back from was it Kent State?

He was a Max school. That's right. JJ Nelson. UAB, I want to say? I don't remember what Jay. Testing me now. Keith Marshall, John Ross. Remember the track star?

Cincinnati had to have him. At pick nine, I think it was in 2017. We're in a 4-22. How'd that work out? Dante Jackson. Zedric Woods. Baylor? Dante Jackson was Maryland.

Zedric Woods, I think, Baylor. I think Baylor, right? That's right. Henry Ruggs, unfortunate, we'll just move on. No Combine held in 2021. Kalyn Barnes, 423. DJ Turner, 426 and 23. Xavier Worthy, 421.

And then Maxwell Hairsten, who I love, but didn't have a great rookie year either in Buffalo. Yeah. That's a scary list, man. It is, and it's interesting. Everyone gets excited about it. It's like the Olympics with the 100-meter thing, and I love to watch it too.

I love to watch the guys get out and go, and you can see it almost immediately when they get out of the gate, who's got a shot at it, and it's all very exciting, and I love that part of the combine. It doesn't translate as well as you think it would, and it's interesting. Get me four, five, two with those big receivers, I'm happy.

All right. I'm underselling it to say that this is an awesome conversation. Mike Borganzi, come to find out, I didn't even realize we have a lot, of the same ties as you're hearing this. So do you as well, Munch. I'm pumped. You know what, Brian Dables, like, I believe in him.

I'm excited to see him there with Cam Ward, with Robert Sala, who I actually think is going to have an awesome second run. Learn from some of the mistakes. Get away from that organization. Get to an organization now that has... You mean the Jets, not the 49ers, by the way. The Jets? Yeah, absolutely.

You leave... Hey, hey. Sam Darnold. You leave the Jets to go to the 49ers to get fixed up so you can go out and be the best version of you. This is the path. This is the path. So you got Sala who's ready to roll a second time around. You've got Gus Bradley, who I believe in as a defensive coordinator, they're with Sala.

They land their guy in Daibol, right? They were worried he was going to get the Buffalo head coaching job or maybe another one of those head coaching jobs. And then Mike Borgonzi coming from the chiefs and with quarterback. So you get the offensive, like, I. They're building something special here in Tennessee, and you guys will see you as you watch this. I'm a big fan of Mike Borgonzi, and this is a really cool conversation. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Welcome in.

Here we are with Mike Borgonzi, the general manager of the Tennessee Titans, and appreciate you being with us, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. You're an Everett guy. I mean, there's maceholes everywhere in the league. There's mass holes everywhere. We call it the Northeast Mafia. Exactly.

So it's good to see that continued growth. Take us back. I want to actually just dive into your background. And obviously, you know, you played at Everett. You went to Brown played there. So, but what is it about your background that maybe early on started to shape who you are today and what you wanted to do? Yeah, I mean, you know, growing up at Everett, it was a football town. Yeah.

So, you know, DBI's with a coach used to say, you know, you don't get a pacifier when you're born and ever, you get a mouthpiece. Yeah. So it was a big part of my life early on, you know, Pop Warner, playing through Everett High School for the great John DiBiazo, legendary high school coach there. And, you know, just the people there, the coaches, the teachers I had here there, there was a big part of it really shaped me. And football was a huge part of a life. I have a younger brother Dave, who's the lineback coach now with the Titans, but he's been in league now 15 years. So it just, it was something that it brought the community together all the time.

And it was always a big part of my life. I remember at Richmond, for me, it wasn't long. It was like probably warming up the first day of practice in summer camp. My freshman year, I was like, I'm not going in the NFL. Yeah. You know, but when was it for you where you realize I'm not going to play at the next level or I'm not going to be a, that's not going to be my long-term career? But man, I love this game.

How can I stay in it? Well, for me, I was probably a little delusional coming out of Brown. You know, I played there for four years and, you know, I had some workouts, had some tryouts. And then I ended up getting into coaching in the Amherst College. Right. For a year was a tight-end coach there. And then the Green Bay Blizzard called.

So I drove up there. Right, right. I was out there for two weeks, broke my foot, drove 19 hours straight back to Boston. And it was like, what am I going to do in my life now? So, you know, I was a business management mazer at Brown. So I ended up working at State Street Bank for a few years. And it was one day I was on the Orange Line. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I worked down there by State Street, too. Somewhere between, like, Sullivan Station and downtown, I just said, you know what? I got to get back into football. I walked in the office that day and gave my two weeks. That's amazing. Wow, yeah. It's aggressive. Yeah, walking away from a banking job in the state street to,

to get into this mess. From there, right? And we know your background with the Chiefs and everything. So what was the next step? And how did some of the playing and coaching affect or positively affect what you've become now in terms of personnel and general manager? Yeah, so, you know, I was very fortunate to catch on with Boston College. Barry Gallup.

There's a Swampscott guy. Swampscott guy, right? So Barry recruited me at Northeastern. He was head coach in Northeastern when I was coming out of high school. and I randomly, Tom O'Brien and left the staff, went down to NC State. And I was working all these odd jobs because I couldn't get back in. I wrote letters to try to get GA jobs and just kept on getting rejected. So I get into, I was a personal trainer.

I had about three different jobs at the time. I was working the night shift at Budweiser trying to make money. I was trying to get back in to coaching somehow. So I randomly just emailed Barry Gallup. when I saw that. I had the Boston Herald with me at the Duncan Dones Cup. I walked into health work, so I was a personal trainer there. I emailed Barry Gallup, you know, saying, do you have any positions there? I saw that Coach O'Brien left, and he emailed me right back, and he said, you know, I want you come in the next day, and I interviewed, and Jeff Jagosinski hired me.

So I was there for two years. I was working in recruiting there. And in that back room there, we had, you know, Trey Colcio, who's with the beers now. Yeah. Ryan Poles ended up coming on after he had his stint with the beers. And then I was also the liaison there. So I would meet with all these scouts that came in. We had Matt Ryan there at the time, Gossner-Charyliss, B.J. Raji. So we had a ton of scouts coming at the time. It was good team.

And, you know, I just made some connections. And Scott Piole, there's a connection with Scott. There's a connection with Scott. There's a couple of Everett guys that went to school with Scott in Central Connecticut States. So he hired my brother as an intern with the Patriots a few years earlier. And he gets the job out in Kansas City and hires me. And I went out there with polls, and I was out there for 16 years. That's wild.

So it's interesting to me, you get the job last year, middle of January. Yeah. Now you're going to get free and see. You've got to get the draft. You've got to find your franchise quarterback. Got to hit the ground running, right? Yeah. Now this year, new head coach, different challenge.

I'm kind of wondering what those challenges are like for you, and are you looking forward to the third full draft cycle where you have a little bit more stability and everything in place because it's got to be difficult. Yeah, I mean, it is. You know, for the public that don't. You get dropped right in because we were still in the playoffs in Kansas City. And I interviewed for a couple teams,

and I was fortunate enough to get Tennessee job. We really wanted that. And, you know, we were playing Houston that week. And I get the job on a Friday. I think we were playing Houston on Saturday. So I flew down there on Tuesday, and you get hired and you do the press conference and you hit the ground running. And a day later, I met the East West game. Get good luck.

You know, and so you get dropped right. It's different from the head coach cycle, right? The season's over and so you get dropped right into it. But of course, you know, you're going through a free agency. And I was going through a free agency with Kansas City. And we had ended our meetings and, you know, we've gone through some of the draft meetings there at the time. But, you know, looking back on it now, you know, fast forward now to a year, you know, having a new staff and just, you know, getting on the same page with them, just the vision of what type of players they want, you know, scheme changes. So what Coach Sala, what he wants for his defense. And then, you know, we're fortunate to get Dable down here, too.

Who I work with Dable back in 2012, with Kansas City. So I've known, you know, Brian for a long time. And so, yeah, so now it's exciting. You know, you get to come in almost together here, and we're getting on the same page just in terms of what type of players we want right now. Right. Yeah. I found it interesting, right? You know, you're with Andy Reed with Mahomes,

and you see kind of, you just mentioned Ryan Poles and kind of the growth from your one to year two with Caleb. Yeah. And you guys wind up hiring a defensive coach in Salah, I mean, I can give you my opinion on it. It doesn't really matter. I think he's a tremendous coach. And I think this is going to be like a, I think we're going to see growth in him and I'm excited to see it. But how important was that that hire of Dable knowing that you've got a young quarterback who's in this like really critical stage, right?

We all know how talented Cam is, but it's critical stage. And I, on the shorthand of all the offensive minds in the NFL, I think Brian is, is really. right there. He's like the short list of guys who can develop quarterback. So it was a home run hire. But how important was that knowing that Brian may wind up taking a head coaching job and might not get, you know, so how critical was that whole process and the timeline for you? Yeah, it was critical. And, you know, he interviewed for a couple of jobs there, so we're kind of holding our breath. And, you know, I think Brian, it's important because, you know, I think Brian has a, had a, had a relationship with Cam the year before. Yeah, you know, the Giants did a lot of

work on him. So there was a previous relationship with him. They may have offered a lot to go up and get him. They did. Someone told me once you find the franchise quarterback, you think that's going to be the franchise quarterback, you take him. Yeah, right. And so that was our thinking at the time. But with Brian, you know, he had a vision for him last year. And what's unique about Brian, too, You spend that year at Alabama in 2018 with Tua and Jalen. And then taking some of those concepts with Chay Terny was there too at Alabama, who's now the quarterback coach here. He took him to Buffalo at the time, you know, worked with Josh when he was there with Josh Allen.

And then, of course, he was with Jackson this year. So it was critical to get Brian here. I love a mock draft as much as the next guy. But I think it's funny, especially, and it's a good exercise. But we haven't even hit free agency, and everyone's telling me what Tennessee needs on their roster. But what really kind of stood out to me is you have a young team. And no one knows your team better than you. And we always see this guys take big leaps year two, year three.

And you know better than anyone where guys are in the process and how are they developing. And how do you balance that of, you know, this player, we think he's going to be able to play this role with we need to fill this slot. Like how do you balance that when you're evaluating the draft? Yeah, you want to stay disciplined to the board. I mean, you always say you want to take the best player available at the time. But there is a marriage of need and value on the board. Right, and you can drive up value a little bit. But you need to stay disciplined in terms of, you know, you don't want to just force a pick because you have a need there.

You know, we're a young team. We want to draft and develop these guys. So, and we have, obviously, we have some needs. So at this point, we're taking, you know, the best player available for us at the time. I want to go back to Cam for a little bit because your situation was different as we just chronicled, right? When you were dropped into the role that you're in. And we talked to some other general managers and they take us back four years or, you know, high school. Or I went to this practice.

And we talked to Elliot Wolf yesterday and he said, I went to this practice at North Carolina, a couple years earlier. You're in Kansas City. You've got Mahomes. You get dropped into this situation, and it's obviously a blessing, and it's what you've worked your ass off your entire career to get here. But now you've got to,

it's not you're playing catch up, because you're evaluating everyone, but you've got to make the most important decision of your career in the first few months of having this job, right? Yeah. What was that information gathering process like? Who did you lean on? I think the audience would love to know a little bit more like behind the curtain of when did you know, who did you lean on?

What were the things that happened to get you to a point where you're like, yeah, he's our guy. Yeah, you're right. I mean, in Kansas City, obviously, we had Patrick and you're not, you know, evaluate the quarterback. But for us, you know, you're always evaluating the quarterback position. Right. You know, so anytime there's a young guy, you can hear about it from two years. And actually, I'll tell you, Brad Veach. It was funny.

He's great. He's got a million different text chains probably, but he had one of us, you know, we had a text chain. And sometimes you'd get up in the morning and you'd have like 45 text messages. I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? You have to read through what's important here. But I remember it was a few years ago. He did shoot a text? He goes, do you see this Washington State quarterback?

And he was slinging it out there last night. And so, you know, you're always watching these quarterbacks. So I started to watch them, you know, probably a couple of times. years ago and then through the season last year just just in case you know you have to be prepared if you get a job and that's obviously the most important position so for me you know I did a lot of tape work on them never had seen them live in person and when I first got hired I got told you I went down to the east-west game and I'm trying to connect the dots of you know former coaches he had and everything and Eric Morris was at North Texas we actually had our practices there last year

So I made a B-line to try to find Eric, you know, just to ask him about him. Because Eric was the OC at Texas Tech with Pat, too. Yeah. And, you know, he was pretty short with me when I asked him. I said, you know, what do you think of Cam? He goes, he's everything you want, take him. I go, really? I said, do you mind you're pat at all?

So the first time I actually met Cam was at the combine here last year. what we did our formal interview with him. And I was, you hear all the stories. I talked to Coach Crystal Ball, Senior Bowl about him. He said he was the best leader he's ever been around. And I'm like, well, okay. So, you know, get to the combine with him, have the meeting, and just his retention, you know, as we're watching the film

and his knowledge at the time was impressive for a young kid. But he's played a lot of football too. Yeah, he is. And obviously the physical quality stand out on tape. You see the different arm angles, the different launch points, his ability to create. And then he has this, you know, I think it's a gift that some guys have. It's the spatial awareness you can see guy. And how did he see that guy come open when he's throwing the football?

So those are some of the things that you see on tape. But then, you know, there was probably three other touch points we have with them at the Pro Day, then his private workout in a 30. and everywhere along the way he kind of checked every box for us. Yeah. So I've got five questions I want to get to, but there's one that's been bugging me, all right?

And we'll get to these five, and we'll just kind of rattle through them, and we'll get you out of here. But I think I overcomplicate things a lot, right? We all do. Yeah. He definitely does. I went back and did all this study, because I'm so fascinated with, we can all pinpoint

like talent at the quarterback position, and then it's about drilling down like you just mentioned with Cam. But then it's about, and I think this is the part that we see some organizations fail over and over again and others excel in. It's about supporting. And I look back at Kansas City after Mahomes and I look back to several other organizations over time, the chiefs, the Packers. And there seemed to be a trend. And I don't think, I truly don't believe that it was like completely like an analytical driven thing or anything where you say, well, this is what we're going to do.

but I do remember even talking to Bill Pollyan when he left the Colts and came to ESPN about like this guy's an eraser. He can figure the quarterback can fix, you know, 10 other guys on the field unlike any player on the defensive side. So there's got to be a shift to upgrading the personnel on that side of the ball because he can help with certain things on that side the ball. And I looked at the Chiefs the year after Mahomes. I think it was six draft picks all on the defensive side. Is that right? That would have been the year. Like Breland.

That was, yeah. Yeah, I think it was a year after, right? Yep, it was, yeah, you're right. Is there a thought process to any of that, or am I completely out of my mind? Listen, you always want to support the quarterback, so, you know, I've never thought of it that way. Yeah. I think when we had Patrick, that was like the perfect storm, though. I mean, we were a playoff team.

Yep. He sat for a year. We had Kelsey in his prime, Tyreek in his prime, and we had a defense that was aging at the time. Yeah. So we actually, we flipped the defense a couple of times during that, when Pat first started. But the offense, I think, was the supporting cast was pretty good at the time. So, you know, for me, when you get in the young quarterback, the first thing you have to do is protect them. Protection, yeah.

The protection is number one. Play caller's protection, playmakers, right? Yeah. Exactly right. So for me, I never really thought of it that way. Yeah. I know I've heard some stuff about how Bill Polly and. had built the team there with more speed on the other side in the,

but I never really thought of it that way. But my first thing is protect the quarterback and give them weapons. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's run through these. We've had the Howie on and Nick Casario and we had Elliott yesterday and a few other guys. And the answer to this one has been really different. It's kind of interesting. We've got I think like 75 or 80 was the lowest.

like 200 of the highest. How big is your final board in a perfect world when you're when you're ready for the draft weekend? That's a good question because we've we've we've we've cut it down over the years. I think at one point with like 230 right or in Kansas City and like last year we got to a point where we're about we're about close to 200 we're about 195 and then once you get through the the combine character medical it was probably down to about 185 yeah at that point. So that's where we were at And that's where we felt comfortable. There's always, you know, we always, for me, it's more clutter.

You know, say, oh, that's window dressing. He's going to get, well, get it out of there. I don't want to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think the comfort point for us, for me now is probably around 200, you know, 100, you know, 100, yeah. I'd be scared of death to go into a draft weekend with like 90. I've heard, like, stories with Coach Parcells with, they had 75.

75, yeah. On the board one time. I said, wow, that's. Yeah, Mickey, but you interviewed me. Mickey Loomis, and he talked about how their number was much smaller. And he said there's been times. He said there's been a couple times where they're like, they're sweating it, like, late and around.

We always have the battle, but you don't want to be taken off the back. Right, right. So you haven't had this job all that long comparatively to the other 31 GMs in the NFL. But what has been your favorite part of the job? You know, the favorite part is probably connecting more with just the people in the community. I think. Yeah. For me, I think I was, you know, behind the scenes a lot in Kansas City and being out here and just in Nashville now and just being able to feel the fan base now.

You can really feel it. And that's been a neat part, you know, and then, you know, bringing the type of people you want in here. Yeah. That's the biggest part. Everybody has a philosophy, the type of people they want in here and coaches, scouts, players. But for me, that's kind of the neat part. We're trying to build a culture here with the right type of people. I think everyone I've talked to who's been successful in that role,

one of the first things they say is, like, the people. And it doesn't have to be what everyone else is seeking or who's like the highest ranked on some service, but it's just the right people. I don't want to say least favorite, but what has been kind of, you know, this is the first time in this role, and there's so many, you're getting tugged in all these different places. And you have to come to sit down?

You don't have to, but you chose to come to sit down with us and you got all these, and the discipline aspect. But what has been the most challenging part of the part? Maybe you didn't realize was going to eat up as much time as it eats up. Time is the key thing. Yeah. It is budgeting your time. The knocks at your door throughout the day. Yeah.

You know, when you say, I need to get these things done here today. And all of a sudden you look at the, you're watching it. It's 5 o'clock. Give us an example. Like a knock on the door. You don't have to specifically and rat. someone out, but it could be anything. It could be the player. It could be a scout you're dealing with, a coach. We hear about some agents. It almost becomes like a, you're sitting down, it's a,

it's almost like a therapy session with everybody. Right. Yeah, yeah. But that's been the biggest, I would say challenge, but, you know, just, just managing the amount of people that you have to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about something, and it may not even be in this role, but at any point in your career that you failed at something and what you learned from it. That's great question. He likes to hate with the big ones at the end. Well, I feel that, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of failures along the way. If you're talking about just this profession, I think the biggest thing is we can always, we're so intoxicated by talent, right? But the other component of that, and it's a huge component, is the character piece, the makeup piece.

And sometimes you can give in on it. Yeah. And then when you do it, you said, God, I knew it wasn't going to work out. Why did I do that? Yeah, it's hard. So those are some of the lessons you learn along the way, but to stay disciplined with that. All right, you're from Massachusetts. I'm confident in this question.

We've asked everyone this. And I've said it before. Like some GMs have been underwhelming. We're building some momentum. We've got some great momentum. Mickey Loomis had a great answer in New Orleans. Elliot Wolf in New England now. I think they've helped him culturally with food.

How important is the draft spread? What goes into it? Do you care? I hope you say yes. If not, then we'll have a conversation. The draft spread. I'm hoping you're getting some barbecue. What do you got?

I've had a bunch of different ones over the years. But you're in charge now. You talk about the dream setup for me? Yeah. Should you be getting it? We should be getting it. See, I'm not a bunch of. big guy that goes down the cafeteria and sits down because I can't stand still like during the draft so I'm like I'm a grab and go so give me good pizza you know it um give me a pizzerie gina you know yeah yeah yeah give me some colloon some saga swings yeah i love it i love it Bianco sausages um yeah yeah for me I'm not a like I don't eat a ton during the draft but what about after we talked about this yesterday yesterday with LA I can't eat during the draft I can pick a little bit but like a

want my diet Pepsi's, my lemon perfects, I want a couple snacks. But then when the draft's over, I want to know that, like, I want to be royalty. I want to eat, like, sit down and, you know, you know? I mean, can you pick a little on Saturday? I get Thursday and Friday, but maybe a little bit on Saturday afternoon. I mean, it has to be an Italian meal for me. Yeah, you're an avaric guy. Yeah, some pasta, you know.

Yeah. That's what you need. Yeah. Well, so can we, do what you want to, like, I'll do it for free if you want me to come. You want to come down a cook? Can you go on a cook? But I'll do a consulting gig if you want me to roll in and maybe get some stuff up from Massachusetts brought down Well, maybe we'll do that I mean Scott used to do that I mean yeah

Yeah, I know it's been a whirlwind you got the job just like a little over a year ago and so but we need to start focusing on the important things now Yeah, yeah, I feel that that answer huh? No, but it's good I maybe but I do feel like maybe we he's gonna put some like I got to get the spread I get better Alright, so that's next up I appreciate it man really good catching up I appreciate it. Yeah Awesome with everyone Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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