The McShay Show - Defensive Line NFL Draft Tiers: Ranking Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, the Georgia Pass Rushers, and More

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! The guys open by discussing what makes this defensive line group one of the deepest in recent memory. Then, Todd and Steve reveal their defensive line draft tiers and discuss some player comps, floors, and ceilings. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (0:43) Deep Dive on the Defensive Line Prospects (2:45) This Defensive Line Class is as Good as EVER (8:29) Evaluating the 2025 Interior Defensive Line Class (27:28) Todd's Most Underrated IDL Prospect (36:01) Evaluating the 2025 Edge Prospects (49:14) Breaking Down Jalon Walker [Edge #3] (56:44) Leading Edge Prospects by Win Rate (1:01:33) Todd's Top Edge Prospects The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

30 defensive linemen, interior and edge, with grades equivalent to the first three rounds. That's it? That's a big number. Yeah, I mean, today we're going to take a deep dive into one of the deepest D-line classes that we've ever seen. Just 65 days until the NFL draft, Mench, you're good? I'm good, man. So glad to hear that. Now, wake me up, DJ. Things that I take a lot of pride in, I know you do as well, Munch, is providing perspective,

right? Most people kind of get involved in the draft. The Super Bowl's over. The college football and NFL seasons are done. They dive into the draft. People want to know, okay, like, when you say, oh, this is a deep running back class, it's loaded this year. It's a great defensive line class. There's so much talent to be had. Well, give me a little perspective, right? And so I did a little bit of digging just to provide the audience. And thank you, everyone who's tuned in. Like, the continued support has been amazing. The numbers keep growing. We, appreciate you more than you'll ever know, truly. And please take a minute if you haven't already.

Click the subscribe button. Give us some likes, all the different things you need to do. I hate begging, but we got to ask. It's just how this thing works, right? But perspective, right? When we talk about this being a loaded D-line class, and I kind of laugh, Metsch, right? Everyone's like this class isn't very good.

Everyone's, because you got to remember, like, all the NFL reporters and NFL analysts and like people I'm talking to now. now, kind of, you know, sending texts and giving calls and people are kind of getting really interested in this draft class. And to a T, everyone who's coming in fresh from the league, it's kind of like when you're a scout and now you're starting to talk to the coaches in the staff who have been coaching all season long. Everyone's like, you know, I hear this class isn't very good. And I'm like, yeah, like, yeah, for TV, it's not a great draft. Right. quarterback's, you know, the quarterbacks this year, the talking point probably starts at four or five from last year's quarterback class.

Yeah, the wide receivers aren't as great as they have been. But as we've talked about a lot recently, and we will continue to talk about, like, look at the organizations that continue to win. Year after year are in the playoffs, successful organizations. They are the ones that take advantage of defensive linemen and defensive standouts in the NFL draft. And this year's defensive line group, Munch, is as good as I can remember. I'm not going to go back and say, well, it's as good as this classic. We did that with running backs. To me, it's like the depth of this group is what stands out the most,

where you can get guys in the third, fourth, and fifth round that belong in the second, third, and fourth round, guys that forget the rounds, guys that are actually going to contribute in different ways, shapes, and forms, okay? Right. So we always do the three-year tally. I talked about it last time. Bill Belichick, you know, one of the things he taught me early in my career was you can kind of rely because some years there's a big spike.

Some years there's a big drop. And it has and it reflects kind of what's going on with, you know, with the talent coming out. But if you want to get a feel, don't do five years, don't do seven years because the game changes. But three years, if you kind of average those and combine them. So Edge class, we'll start there. Last three years in the first three years, in the first three years, three rounds, there's been an average of 13 guys drafted, edge defenders.

This year we have grades, I have grades, and we'll get to your grades and how you, you know, how your evaluations differentiate from mine. But this year I've got 20 edge defenders, right? 20 with grades in the first three rounds. That's seven more. That's significant. Overall, the class, 24 edge defenders. defenders on average, 18 last year, but 24 on average the last three years have been drafted

overall, seven round process. I've got 36 guys this year with draftable grades. And the combine, there are 35 edge defenders invited. Now, about 80% of the combine players wind up getting drafted. There's like 33. I don't know this year, but on average, like just over 330, only 256 players get drafted. So obviously, there's going to be a percentage that don't. And a handful of guys get drafted. I think it's about 10% of players that get drafted were not invited to the combine on average. My point being, it's still a good indicator of what the class looks like when you have 35 edge defenders invited the combine. I have 36 guys, edge defenders graded in the first seven rounds compared to 24 over the last three years. Now, let's get to inside

defensive linemen, the IDLs. 10 in the last three years on average, right? The last three years, average, 10 interior defensive linemen have been drafted in the first three rounds. I've got 17 with grades in the first three rounds. Again, seven player difference for both edge and interior defensive linemen in the first three rounds. Those are guys you expect to play significant roles, whether it's day one starter, in a rotation, develop them as a starter. When you draft a player in the first three rounds, you expect in that first three years,

they become an impact player and become a starter. 17. Yeah. My numbers are there. Very similar. Overall, 23 have been drafted, Interior Defensive Lyman in the last three years. 23 IDLs drafted the last three years. I've got 36, Munch, with draftable grades. 39 invited to the combine.

That's ridiculous. So that's the jumping off point today. There's a lot of buzz I'm hearing. I've had conversations with interesting people, including even Albert Breer yesterday. We're on the phone for an hour. A lot of information started to come out. We're talking about dropping the mock draft very soon. Stay tuned.

Check it out on on X. We got at McShay 13. You got M-E-M-E-N-C-H-E-N-C-H. He's got his new Twitter handle. Thank you for the audience, sending in suggestions. We went with one of them. Thank God. Yes.

So we'll keep you posted, but we're very soon here. Maybe this week dropping my first mock draft in two years, right? So exciting week. And then next week we've got the combine. Talking about maybe not doing a show on Monday or Tuesday, because we're flying in on Wednesday. We're going to have a preview show from the combine with measurables. Get everyone ready for it on Wednesday. Then on Thursday, we're going to have the first day of workouts.

Friday, second day of workouts. Saturday, third day of workouts, which is the big one. quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, right? It's a huge day. Saturday, we'll post a rare weekend draft show. And then Sunday, we fly home. Monday, we do a review show. So we're going to be loaded here for the next like 10, 12 days.

Stick with us from mock drafts to combine previews to the combine to the combine review. We're going to cover it all. And I'm telling you, I'm getting information. It's pretty freaking wild, man. Things are starting to shape up. And you start to say, well, what do people know now? The draft board? Yeah, the draft boards haven't been said.

I get it. Meetings are happening. But you go back and talk to some general managers who have drafted quarterbacks. And sometimes they say, yeah, we knew at this point in the process. Yeah. We knew we were going with this guy. We started making phone calls about trades in February. Okay.

So things are starting to happen. And I'm getting inside information. And I'm excited to share. Not quite there yet. Hopefully with the mock draft coming out, we'll be able to explain it all. But let's start with you, Mench. because I always get yelled at. And even my daughter, my Sweet O'Lear, watched a show the other day,

just a few minutes. But she said, why don't you let the other guy talk? And everyone on the comments. And here we are, 10 minutes and 46 seconds in. And it's probably been like 20 words from METCH and 3,000 from me. So, Interior Defensive Alignment. Why don't you start there? Because we both took this project on.

We're just ripping through tape. Oh my God. Player after player. We got the PFF Ultimate, which is helping us with the, you know, you can, you can sort it out by pass rush win rate. Positive plays, rundowns, negative plays versus the run. Like, any way you can possibly think of breaking it up, it goes immediately, you press the button, it goes to the video. So anyone who's out there who's a junkie and really wants to get the tape, I'm telling you, PFF Ultimate is an unbelievable source. and it's that or the version similar,

whether it's their own database like the Baltimore Ravens have and their own situation, that's what NFL teams are doing. They're breaking out, the cutups. So with interior defensive linemen, let me start with this. Okay. This interior defensive line group is loaded, obviously. Actually, you started. I'll give you a nugget later.

Go ahead. I got something for you right out of the gate. Last show. I say, I'm going to tell everyone right now. Oregon defensive tackle, Derek Harmon, he's in the top five defensive tackle in this class. And I usually feel really good about what I say in the show. And then we all wrap it up.

Thanks, guys. We'll see you next show. Great show, all that. And I was like, wait a minute. Am I serious? Did I just put my foot in my mouth? Is Derek Harmon really not a top five defensive tackle in this class? And you know what?

He's not. He's not a top five defensive tackle in this class. And it speaks to how good this group is. He's just not. I'm sorry. Mason Graham is on his own level. Mason Graham is his own dude. Michigan.

He's your tier one guy, tier one McShay guy. Then you have, I think Walter Nolan, and I was, you know, I was kind of downplaying Kenneth Grant a little bit. I was out of my mind on that one. Kenneth Grant and Walter Nolan are in a race for DT, too, in my opinion. Then you get into my guy who I have absolutely fallen in love after digging in and watching tape. and that's South Carolina's T.J. Sanders.

He is awesome. I love his tape. I love the way he plays the run. He can one gap. He can two gap. He has instincts like a linebacker when he's playing the run. The way he tracks and locates the ball, slips blocks, sifts through traffic. I loved his tape. He is a no-brainer first-rounder to me. And then I got Ohio State's Tileak Williams surround up my top five,

which puts Harmon in really, and I'll tell you this, this is not so much of a knock on Derek Harmon, who had a great year. But when you watch, so we're watching those clips and those cutups, watch T.J. Sanders rush, pass rush clips, and then to watch Derek Harmon's clips, and it's a different thing. Derek Harmon's getting home because of stunts, guys are kind of rolling into him. T.J. Sanders is winning with his hands.

He's got moves. Derek Harmon's a little bit more raw in that situation. So, now T. T.J. Sanders is undersized. I get that. I'm not really worried about after watching his tape. He's strong. He can slip blocks. T.J. Sanders is going to be fine.

So then I think you had Derek Harmon in that next bucket or tear, whatever way you want to say it. I'm really high on Shamar. So, so let's, all right, I love your, I love your passion. Yeah, I'm on your energy. I love how much caffeine you've, you've had this morning. We'll get back. And I do want to pick your brain and share some thoughts on, on each, each of these guys in their traits. But you're saying for you, if we're going off of tears, which is the phraseology I've always used,

The Ravens like to use buckets. Clusters is another phrase that we hear often, right, when you talk to people inside the NFL, whatever the phrasing is. For us, Tier 1 is Mason Graham, and I don't disagree. But you're saying for you, tier two, and correct me if I'm wrong, is Walter Nolan, defensive, interior defensive lineman from Ole Miss, 6-3, 293 pounds, 33-inch arms.

and Kenneth Grant, the Michigan Interior defensive lineman, teammate obviously of Mason Graham, who's a bigger cat. We don't have his, let's not even throw out measurables at this point. We only have Walter Nolans because he was at the Senior Bowl. Kenneth Grant was not. I don't,

yeah, it was not. And so we'll wait for the combine to throw out the measurables, but he's a bigger cat. And he's widely expected to have an outrageous workout. Whenever he works out, he's supposed to put on a shirt. show. Correct. But you're saying also, maybe I miss heard, also in that tier, that tier two,

no, that's my tier two. That's your tier two. Yeah. Tier three then starts in your opinion. Do I say, are my tier is too small? I feel like maybe. No, no, no, no, no. I'm a small, I'm a small tier guy. Okay, good. Let's get and then let's stack him within. Um, so then tier three starts for you with T.J. Sanders, the three technique. Yeah. From, from, from South Carolina who checked in at the at the senior bowl at 6.36 that means 6 3 and three quarters inches right 284 pounds he's a classic three technique undersized tall taller good length big big hands right if I remember yeah 10 and a quarter inch hands excuse me 33 and 5 8 inch of arms so those long arms for defensive tackle which is great yeah

So that starts your tier three. And then Tileague Williams is in that tier. And then I think there's a much, when you get to tier four, it's a much bigger tier. I mean, you're starting to- So Harmon isn't even in your first three tiers. No. He's not the top five. He's not the first three tiers.

What about, okay. What about Alfred Collins from Texas and Josh Farmer from Florida State? All the next group with Harmon. And I'm also higher, I believe, than you. on Texas A&M, Shemar Turner, who played hurt this year. But if you look at the production in the tape, if you look at the production from two years ago, and you still look at the tape from this year,

I mean, the kids playing on a stress fracture that they had to, he went to the senior bowl and they're like, bro, you have a stress fracture that hasn't healed. You've got to go heal up. And when you think about how he was playing on that injury, man, he's a dude, too. I mean, there's that bucket there. And you could also throw into that group right there,

Darius Alexander from Toledo had an outrageous senior bowl. I'm high on Darius Alexander. Me too. So what I'm saying, and to keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that Derek Harmon's not going to be a starter in the NFL because I do believe that he will be. It's just this, when you start reading those numbers at the beginning of the show and you give that perspective, this class is loaded and it's deep,

but it's also talented. Maybe not elite at the top. When you get into that day two range, there's going to be a bunch of guys that are drafted in. day two from the defensive tackle group, that interior defensive line group, they're going to turn into players in the NFL. Give me, I'm going to put you on the spot here. Okay.

Whether it's 20, 30 seconds, give me your elevator pitch, and I'm going to go down to the list. Just on the, I'm not going to go through it. Ten guys. I'm going to go through just a handful of guys. Give me your elevator pitch on Mason Graham, defensive tackle Michigan, who's your only tier one player. First of all, the tape speaks for itself. I'll say that right away.

I mean, we can do traits, but I just have to mention this. His tape was really good this year. If you go back and you look at the players that he played and the players either got drafted or going to get drafted the year before when they won the national championship and how he played against those players, he was the alpha. He was the dominant player on all of those tapes. It starts for me with feet and hands when you're talking about defensive tackles. Can they change directions a little bit?

Do they have a little bit of agility? They don't have to move like a defensive end, but can they move a little bit? And then more importantly really is the hands. Can they win with their hands? Can they get off blocks? and Graham passes those tests with flying colors. And he's a guy that can play on the outside, too, if you really need him to. I don't think that's something I would do that much because it's not his strength,

and he's just absolutely dominant on the inside. But he at that size is athletic and quick and agile enough to, if you wanted, you'd like the matchup against maybe a guy who doesn't have much sand in the pants at offensive tackle. He'd go out there and play there, too, if you wanted him to. He is just the tape, it speaks for itself. He's unblockable at times. When you're watching Michigan defensive line tape, for you,

personally, and you're watching Mason Graham, and he's obviously in a tier of his own, but Kenneth Grant not far behind in terms of tiers in that second tier. What's the biggest difference you see between Graham and Kenneth Grant? Consistency, especially at getting off blocks. I think that Grant's not as good at getting off locks. He's just not as consistent. The flip side with Grant is, and I kind of hinted at it, is the ceiling is outrageous. I mean, the ceiling is outrageous.

You see him, when he gets a chance, you don't see a lot with defensive tackles, but when you get a chance to chase, this is a guy that moves differently than most human beings with that kind of size. So to me, you're talking about Graham consistently great, grant flashes of greatness, good player. Walter Nolan, what stands out to you? You better block him with two, and if you can't, and even sometimes when you block him with two, he's still going to beat you.

I think he's quick enough to split down. double teams. Another guy that if you really wanted to kick him outside in certain matchups, you could do it. But he's, I mean, he can win with his hands. He can win with his quickness. There's going to be some similar traits here because, again, when I'm looking for in an elite defensive tackle, these guys are going to share some of those tools. But the one thing that jumped out of me with him with Nolan when I watched his tape was, you get, you better, you better block him with two. And even when you do, he can win. Yeah, I thought, I see flashes as a pass rusher. I really do.

I think he's really, really strong versus the run. You're worried about the pass rush? I see flashes. I see flashes, but I look at some of his best games as a pass rusher, like Middle Tennessee, you know, Wake Forest, Georgia Southern. I thought he was really good at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was really good at one of the ones. No, I like you.

I don't, I'm just saying, When I watched him on tape, when I see Walter Nolan on tape, I see a guy who's great versus the run because he's stuff. He's stout. He can stuff the run. He gets off of blocks. He's disruptive. He's just like power, strength, like built thick, but also has some quickness and is active and disrupts.

As a pass rusher, I see a guy who has those traits, but he's going to need developing in order to, against like top tier offensive linemen, figure out how to, you know, count. how to get home, how to be more consistent as a pass rush. Yeah, I'm not a sincere, but that's what. Yeah, it's not a massive concern. I'm saying, like, as I'm trying to, like, within, within the tiers, I'm just, that's, if there's a concern for me, why isn't he in that tier one? Because he's, because he's a big, good-looking dude, carries his weight, has all the

athletic traits. Again, comparatively speaking, if we're talking about top, top-tier, top-10-type picks, I think, excuse me, his consistency is a pass rusher and his like refinement, ability to come up with counters against good offensive linemen that know what they're doing. They come in with balance and with a plan. That's where he's going to have to be a master class. And he has the skills to do it. How do you, how do you approach when a player, and this is a great example,

Ole Miss's defensive line is loaded, right? So how do you approach it? And I know you're talking about traits. Yep. I want to get in Ease, too, by the way. Um, Mielan. So when you have an offensive line like that or Texas A&M offensive line where maybe you don't get home because there's three other dudes you play with who can get home.

Does that impact how you're looking at? I mean, you can look at Middleton and State State and be like, you know, he had most of his pressures. You know what I mean? But like there's other games where they're playing in where maybe he would, like in a different situation, he's going to get home. But there goes you man, me yelling off the edge or Ivy's winning with power. I'm not worried about like, I'm not worried about the sacks and I'm worried about, I'm, I'm studying the tape. Right.

Like there are times when Jalen Walker steals a sack from Mikel Williams or vice versa. Right. Or chase, yeah, chases them into them. Yeah, I got you. All that stuff. It's, it's basically, that's why I put more focus on like the pass rush win rate. If we're going to put any focus on any numbers than I do on the sacks, you know. and when I'm watching tape, it's more about, like, are you, are you winning that one-on-one? I can't, I can't concern myself with what the other 10 are doing in that situation, but I got to keep perspective on what's happening on the tape. Right.

So was Nolan a tier, is he a tier below for you, or is he? No, no, he's not. Okay. I'm just countering to you and saying, why is it being tier one? I think that that, if you, if you polled a lot of different scouts who have, who have been, you know, evaluating him for two years now. If you pulled them all, like, why isn't he going to be a top 10 pick? Pretty confident that that would be the answer.

Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah. Because there's a reason he's not a top 10 pick, but there's also a lot of reasons why he's going to be a first round pick, right? Right. Yeah, keeping in perspective. Mason Graham, by the way, can I just make this comparison real quick? It's almost the prospect that Joel Alt was last year.

And that it's just so safe and clean. And when you watch his tape, it's play after play, after play, after play of him doing the right thing, him making plays, him dominating his opponent. I remember Joe Alt's evaluation, the offensive tackle from Notre Dame, by the way, it came out last year. I got to be better about this. The offensive tackle out of Notre Dame that the Chargers drafted last year. His evaluation was so easy because his tape was so clean. And I feel the same way about Mason Graham. You're going to have a tough time coming up with a low-light package for Mason Graham.

Yeah, and Alt was what, the second? position player drafted in the class with three quarterbacks and, you know, one of, one of two, like, unbelievably elite wide receivers. And Martin Harrison Jr. went four, I believe, to Arizona. And then he was five to the chargers. Yep. Memory serves me. All right.

A couple more things. We talked about pass rush win rate, right? I just, I looked this up just to kind of get some perspective. and this will lead me to a couple things. Three defensive linemen, interestingly enough, were kind of head and, like, I don't know, like heads above or shoulders of head and shoulders above the rest. Is that what they, uh, catchphrase. Omar Norman Lott from Tennessee 19.4.

He was kind of up there with some of the top edge guys, okay, in the top 30 edge guys, which. which obviously speaks to what he, I'll get into Norman a lot in a minute. Anais people, the Peebles, sorry, from Virginia Tech. Number two, not surprised. I think he's underrated in this class. Three technique, active, disruptive, get him in that, like, you know,

inside shoulder or the tackle, let him, let him hit that three gap, or there's a three technique and the B gap and let him get up field and see what he can do when he gets there. And then your boy, Derek Harmon from Oregon, number three. And then there was a big drop off. It was 19.4 for Norman Lott, 18.6 for Peebles, and 17.9 for Harmon. And then you get down just by comparison purposes, for comparison purposes. When you get down to like the Mason Grams and the Walter Nolans, they were like in that 11, 10%, which is still like, I'm not, I'm not complaining about those numbers.

It's a pretty good pass rush win rate for an interior defensive lineman. But it speaks to like how successful those guys were as pass rushers. Yeah. Norman, Tennessee, Peebles from Virginia Tech and Harmon from Oregon. Every year, go ahead. I didn't see it with Harmon as much on tape. I didn't see it. But I'll go back now.

I'll go back and take another look. I didn't see Harmon as a great pass rusher. Okay. Well, please do. Yeah. Good thing we've 65 days left until the NFL draft. We'll get it right. I'll get it right.

I take a lot of pride in this, Munch. And it's, I'm just going to sit here and get Tommy John surgery and pat myself on the back. But every year, I feel like there's like one undervalued interior defensive lineman that I'm on. Okay. Who's your guy? Last year was Brandon Fisk. And it was early. It was before he, but he still wound up going in the second round.

He was DT. 7. He was a nightmare at the end of the season. He was unbelievable in that ACC championship game. But no one wanted to get on board. Really? He was the seventh interior defensive line. Lineman drafted last year, bud. Where did he go?

He went in the top 50, though. Yeah, he was in the second round. Yeah. But I was like, I was banging, banging on the table for this guy as the first rounder. Had him at like 26 overall. Okay. Had him was like the third, I think the third interior defensive linemen, something like that.

Keanu Benton, year before, he was defensive line, interior defensive lineman number five taken, second round by the Steelers. Justin Madabweke, third round by the Ravens. Go all the way back to 2015, sitting in hotel rooms, bitching scouts coming in and out. Why not Grady Jarrett? Because he's short. Right. This guy's an absolute terror. He was a fifth round pick by the first.

Falcons. That's crazy to me. Right. That was unbelievable that he fell that now that I'm done, now that I'm done patting myself on the back. Yeah, he really, Tommy John Surger. I'm just saying, there's always one guy. Yes, I will calm down. And I guess almost I'm doing it so that you can make fun of me. But I'm saying there's always one guy that jumps out to me. And I've already said his name today. And I, and I have said it multiple times. Omar Norman lot. There's something about this guy, man. He's stout. He's shorter than everyone else. so he doesn't look like he's not as physically intimidating. You put him next to Walter Nolan.

You put him next to even like Tim Smith at the senior bowl. He's this hulking dude, right? Omar Norman Lott checked into the senior bowl at 6-1-7. So under 6'2, 295 pounds, but he had 33 and 5 inch arm length, okay, which is above average. He had a, he has, listen to this, 11. an eighth inch hand span. And I promise you for defensive linemen that can actually legally use their hands and control blocks and the strength that they need and to shove, move, slide, whatever,

to lock out versus offensive tackles or offensive guards is an interior defensive lineman as you're trying to locate the football in the backfield and then to disengage. It's important. and then you look at his pass rush win rate. The best of the group, 19.4. Bud, that's up there with like, with like the top guys as edge rushers. Like Mike Green was 22%. He's at 19.4.

Okay. All right. He's, I love that build for a defensive tackle, by the way. Yes. It's a naturally low center of ground. gravity. And $2.95 at that build, it's a good weight at that size. And then you add the juice. He explodes off the ball. So you got a guy, good luck trying to get underneath Norman Lott as an

offensive lineman. Good luck getting underneath him. And then he can, he has enough length. Again, he's long for for that height. So he's enough length to get into your frame. He really uses his hand well. He's he's a good player. One thing I'll ask you. Doesn't play a lot of snaps this year. No one on Tennessee did. They rotate like 14 guys. So if you're going to, if you're going to bang the drum on James Pierce Jr. No, if you're going to bang the drum on James Pierce Jr. while everyone else is criticized and said, well, the tape wasn't there this year. Well, he's always rested. And of course he is fresh. Like, that's a lot of the complaints. Who's voice is that? Is that my voice? No, it's all, it's all the other people that are making the

complaints. But now I'm hearing you throw that at me with Omar Norman Lott. It's the same shit. Are you, well, it's, I'll say it's a little bit different. I think that James Pierce, I like Norman Lott's build, and I like the, I like the way his tape is awesome and all those things. James Pierce is a unique athlete. He is, he is, his tools are elite, I think. I'm not sure that you can say that about Norman Lott. But that being said, I'm nitpicking. I'm getting into an argument I don't want to get into just because that's how I am with you.

I love Norman Lott's tape, but people might look at that and say he was fresh all the time. Great. I'm going to remind you that in like six minutes when we get to James Pierce, Jr. I don't disagree with you on Mason Graham, just to kind of put this, put a, I don't want to say a bow on it, but just to add a little, not context. I think at this point, just to give my opinion on the, on the tiers where you are, I agree with you on Mason Graham. He's, he's in a league of his own. I think Grant, Kenneth Grant, his teammate, Walter Noel. and Derek Harmon, unlike you, are in that second tier for me. All like late first. Okay.

Then there's a third tier for me. And this is the kind of the thickest tier, if you will. And you can break them up into two, but let's just call it one tier for now, okay? Because I do think it's probably two tiers, but I'm going to throw out a bunch of names in there that I think when you're sorting through these, these are the names that you have to keep in consideration. I think Alfred Collins isn't there from Texas. I think Omar Norman Lott is in there from Tennessee. I think Darius Alexander is in there from Toledo to go along with guys like Joshua

Farmer, Josh Farmer from Florida State, Tileak Williams, who I'm surprised you're still really high on Tileak Williams, another three technique along with T.J. Sanders, who you love from South Carolina. those guys are classic three techniques. Tilek Williams, T.J. Sanders, Darius Alexander, okay? I also would include Shamar Turner, but probably a little lower in that in that bucket or tier. Jordan Phillips would be low in that bucket of tier. Aeneas Williams.

I'm sorry, Ania Peebles from Virginia Tech, also in that tier. Maybe you break it into a second tier there. But that's a bunch of guys. Collins Farmer, Tileak Williams, T.J. Sanders, Darius Alexander, Omar Norman Lott, Shemar Turner, Jordan Phillips, Peebles. That's nine guys. So yeah, we're going to break that into two. But my point is, that's all in that second, early, mid-third round range, okay? What do you got with JJ Bikis? Do you have him in there and all? Pegis. Yeah.

I like Pagis. I like his natural athleticism. I like his movement skills. I think he's still developing as a player. I think it's cute that he carries the ball and fourth down. It's fun. You know, the crowd loves that. Thick six and big guy. He plays on the outside almost as much as he does on the inside. He's athletic, man.

320 whatever pounds. He is athletic. I think I would put him in in the next tier after those guys, whether it's tier four or five, but still, very much in the running for day three pick. But in that tier, I would also include Dion Walker. He's a monster of a man, six, seven.

Some people thought he was the first coming into the year. Six, yes, six seven, three 40, 34 and a half inch arms, 10 and three quarter inch hands. Plays like a three technique, though. Yeah, he does. The body of like a Casey Hampton, old school, nose tackled, right?

Massive guy. Right. But pads too high, gets moved too easily by leverage, right? Yep. But shouldn't be able to move that way at his size. So, like, I'm a D-line coach and I get involved now at this point in the process. I want to know, is he coachable? What's his work ethic like?

What are his eating habits? Those are the things I need to know because if this guy is and he's willing to work with me and he's going to put in the grind, my gosh, there's a lot of clay here to mold. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's why he's intriguing as a late day two prospect. Ty Robinson's another one I want to dig in a little deeper on. I love Ty Robinson.

From Nebraska, right? Yeah, he's a good player, man. And Ty Hamilton from Ohio State. Yeah. Probably, probably early fourth, but like could be a top top 100 pick. I mean, just talent everywhere. Yes. Everywhere.

All right. That's the interior defensive linemen. And I want to remind everyone, when they come to me and say, this class sucks, right? It's a bitter old man. This class isn't very good. Can't wait.

What's 2026 looking like? Get out of here, man. Get out of here. Like, look at what the Eagles do. Look at what the bills have done. Look at what the Ravens do. Right? Look at what the franchises that win year over,

year over year. Look at what the Packers have done historically. Yeah. defensive linemen. Like this year is a gold mind, an absolute gold mind for this defensive line class. You got to take advantage. If you got three picks,

use two of them on defensive front in the first three rounds. If you got four, you got a compensatory or a traded pick, then use at least two, maybe three. Get your running back in the third or fourth, fifth. Get your wide receiver late. Like,

to take advantage of this class. And that brings me to the edge, guys. we talked about the perspective already edge edge defenders 13 on average the last three years in the first three rounds we've got 20 with grades that belong there this year 24 drafted in the last three years on average 36 with grades draftable grades 35 invited the combine edge is just as loaded i don't know you can make an argument we'll argue that another day we don't have time for it today which ones which ones deeper and stronger interior edge i did a lot of to work on this in the last couple days. We have all season, but I really wanted to, I really wanted to break up this edge class. And I want to circle back after I'm done with this, but I wanted to give you two tiers, match, so that people who are just just getting into this draft and are like, all right, McShea, you've sat here and you've been to blow hard. You haven't shut up about how

deep and strong this group is. Well, tell me about them. What makes them so good? Well, here's what it is. Just like a defensive tackle or interior defensive lineman, there's a, there's a tier one guy. There's not many. There's, there's only like four tier one guys in this entire class. True. Right. Truly. Maybe three. Abdul Carter. Abdul Carter is a tier one edge. Yeah. He would go along with Travis Hunter and Mason Graham. Gentie? I think that. Maybe. Yeah. And Warren. I would say there's more. Tyler Warren, too, at the tight end. I'm going to put them a tier two because I'm tough with you.

That elite tier, man, here's the difference between you and I. I've had to go back. I've had to go back for 20 years and explain grades. Because for at ESPN, there would be a graphic up there. And you would have to, you'd have to, they would line it up over 10 years, past decade, scouts, ain't draft grades, make sure, blah, papa. And so like, when I'm putting someone in that tier one, like, I got to live with that shit for a decade or more.

And so I want to make this clear. I know you love Warren. I know you love him. Absolutely obsessed with him. He is 1,000% a tier one tight end. He is without question a tier one tight end. He's a tier one tight end. No question.

But is he tier one like the elite of the elite class like up there? Like the elite grade, I'm talking the elite grades that you're going to give over history. That's where I'm, I'm not saying he's not definitively. I'm saying it's definitely like I'm in an argument with myself about Gentie, about Warren. Are they really just like truly top tier two? Okay. Okay. We'll have that discussion.

Today's not. Yeah, we're going to get into that. Manch. We'll get into that or the running back day. We did the running back day four days ago. Um, my point being, there's two tiers that I believe all these guys belong in the first round, in my opinion. Okay.

And, and let me just preface this by, I've had a lot of calls with scouts in the last 10 days. And we had a lot of conversations at the, at the senior bowl as well. You and I on the field in the stands talking to guys, friends for, for decades, or guys we've just met or what it, like, we've had a lot of conversations. Not everyone agrees with this, especially with the. couple guys. But this is where I am, okay? Abdul Carter's Tier one and by himself in the edge class. Tier two is the fascinating part. We talked about with Eric Takosa, GM of the Ravens, like get him in the bucket, right? But when they're in the bucket, that's when he uses a lot of that analytics and the data and everyone remembers the headline from him saying that they use Madden rating, but what people

didn't probably take away because they only listen to the headline is it's part of like 140 different data points that go into us, as he calls it a cocktail. All right. Right. And so that helps you sort within the bucket, as he calls it or the tier for us. Here's my tier two. I'm going to list it off and I'm going to give you a little nugget. I'm going to go back and give you a little nugget.

Mike L. Wiliams, Georgia. Jalen Walker, Georgia. James Pierce, Jr., Tennessee. Mike Green, Marshall, Shamar Stewart, Texas A&M. not like 92s and 91 grades no like not a big difference in grades tough to sort up i think at this point that's where i am in terms of the rankings within that tier don't hate it all right michael let me just give you my like even less than an i've got two floors on an elevator with

the CEO to give you a little pitch and then and then i'll come back into your office later and explain Michael Williams bet on his traits And part of his traits is his age Okay, he's a pup God doesn't make many human beings That look and are athletically gifted like him The reason he's there is I'm betting on his traits Jalen

He's got to be a scheme fit And you've got to have a plan But the explosive traits are beyond exciting. James Pierce Jr. Most complete and advanced pass rusher with talent and traits involved, but most complete in advance,

like he's ready. Of this tier. Mike Green, second best pure pass rusher of this group and maybe most complete play. of this group, but his traits aren't as high, in my opinion.

Still very high, but his traits are not at the level of Michael, Jalen, and Pierce. And then Shamar Stewart is different in that he is power-based production, not yet there, but if you get him with a veteran group and a coach to untap, he's got a chance to be outstanding. That's my, that's my breakdown. Mikel, let's just get into it. Michael Williams. Abdul Carter, I think, kind of speaks for itself. I don't, even the casual fan knows, like, he is dynamic.

He's explosive. He's, he's compared to Micah Parsons. I hate to put that bar on him. He's not there. He's not at the level that, um, that Micah Parsons was coming out necessarily, but just a slight notch below. He's like a former. off the ball linebacker, playing edge, best fit is at edge in the NFL, but could do both and

play and provide that hybrid multiple facet to your defense if you need it. Unbelievably explosive, if you're looking for a feel good and trying to understand the will and the competitiveness of this young man, go watch the college football playoff. Final game of his collegiate career played with literally with one arm, one functional arm, and was dominant in that game against Notre Dame. But Mike L, the top of tier two for me, he's tough to evaluate, man, because the thing that works against him is that Jalen Walker is opposite him and sometimes they're on the same side. And Jalen is so fast and so sudden and so explosive. And Mike L is just built different.

You're talking 6.5-265, okay? Tall, body, beautiful, long arms. he also on tape, you've got to keep this in perspective. I want to remind everyone, he injured his ankle in the first game in the season against Clemson. So now you're watching a 6-5-265-pounder on the same defensive front with Jalen Walker, who's what, six, I don't have the number six to-245. 6-2-245. So three inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter.

and older and is more, you know, more experience. Mike Hell is going to be 20 years old when he's drafted, bud. It's crazy. His birthday's June 29th, 2004, we're getting old. But he dealt with a late. He dealt with a, so you've got this young pup who's 20 years old, who's probably 19, yeah, he's 20 years old during this past season, dealing with a lingering ankle injury.

Right. He was taller and bigger significantly 20 pounds and three inches. He just doesn't look as explosive and dynamic when you're comparing it to him. But versus the run, I think he, I don't want to call him outstanding or elite, but he's going to be a damn good run defensive end in the NFL. So like, it's just like check that box. Strong at the point of attack. Tough to move.

Locks out, locates, disengages with relative ease, tackles with authority, solid range. he's a four three defensive end can plug him at left or right he's very good run defender and that that stuff travels to the NFL right and he's only going to get better as he gets more mature older stronger better technique pass rusher again it's the traits he's not there yet but you can't coach the long arms he's got unbelievably quick hands swipes and rip like he's really really Like when he uses them correctly, he's got unbelievably quick hands. Shows enough power to convert speed to power as a pass rusher. Athletically gifted, smooth mover, great forward lean when he fires out as a pure pass rusher.

When he knows he's like third downs, obvious pass downs, great. Like he's not to the Bosa level. No two edges that I ever watched with their length. Yeah. Like unbelievable. Like like JPP was a little bit like that. Certain guys, like, it's almost like they're skidding on the water. Like, they're fire out so low.

He's got a little bit of that, not quite to the level. But he also, the thing I love about him, there's this natural ability that all great pass rushers have, this natural ability, it's like an instinct. Again, like God gave this to you. He was born to be a pass rush. Natural ability to keep his hands and legs moving to advance his rush while engaged. All the great ones, okay? Yeah.

Now, still developing his plan as a pass rusher. Counter moves aren't there. Inconsistent with gap integrity. I know you've seen that a lot on tape. Not horrible, but there are times where you're like, Kirby's not going to like that, you know? I've got to be a long film session. And while his hands are super quick and there's a lot to work with there,

he doesn't always land his punches, okay? So that's where I am. How about this for the first? How about this for a NFL time? How about this? The first Texas tape is all I need for him. The first, I can watch the first Texas tape.

And you can be concerned. Yeah. Again, but we'll let's talk about Mike L. for a minute. Mike L. in that first Texas game was, I thought, dominant.

Absolutely. How about this for a cop? It's not a current one, but it reminds, Zeke Ansah. Oh. That's interesting. I don't hate that.

Do you remember the story with Zeke Ansa? And I'm not, I'm not, I'm just saying like when he came over to BYU, I remember getting a call from my really good friend, Rod Gilmore. He's like, check this guy out. I just, I just talked to the coaching staff. He got here.

He was, he was doing something like intermaral sports or some other, maybe basketball, whatever was. They asked him to come out and he's like, sure, I'll try that. I'll try football. Right. They had to teach him how to like tie up his shoulder pad. They put his helmet on. He didn't know anything, okay?

And like two years later, they developed him into a player that was worth drafting, but still had a lot of work to do. I'm not saying Michael's that raw, but I'm saying as a 20-year-old when he's drafted, you're getting a very raw version of what you expect to get in a year or two. Gotcha. Big, long, power-based, but like quick and athletic and sudden in his own regard. I liked it, but you can bleep off. I think he's farther along than that, but yeah. He is farther along. No question. That's what I think. That's a point. That's a problem with comps man that's what that's where they get tricky right everyone's like well he's not exactly like that guy well yeah it's a comp how many comps did you give me for your interior defensive

line i've been really good about the comps not today no no comps today okay um want to get to jeline walker let's do jalen walker all right here's what i saw on tape and i feel like everyone's going to give him this similar comp you go the micah parsons route or you know any off the ball linebacker who moved his tape is interesting because it's like legit rotating from one position to the next. Right. He's he's he's pass rushing the A gap, the B gap, the C gap, the D gap from off the ball and from the edge. And I said this to Albert Breer when we were talking yesterday, like when you got a guy like Micah, when you got a guy like Abdul, when you got a guy like Jalen, they're like for the rest of those types, it's like. what is he?

He's a hybrid, but it works as a negative. Like, what's his fit? Is he a tweener or is he a hybrid? Correct. He's a hybrid. Right. And as defensive coordinator, my mind immediately goes through shit. I can use this guy in like five different spots. And like, it doesn't matter if it's first in 10 or third in 18 or third and three.

Like there's a place on the field for him. And in a game now where we're seeing, you know, substitution packages, tempo at times, like all the different facets of the modern NFL game, having those guys that provide multiplicity for a defensive coordinator. Like when you talk to defensive coordinators, whether college or NFL, like, it's like a drinking game. He makes us multiple. Everything's multiple. We need to be multiple here.

We've got to be multiple. That's why they love Brian branches of the world and Sanders trilled. And you know what I mean? Give me guys that allow us to be multiple. Jalen gives you that. I actually think interestingly enough, he's played more ball off the ball linebacker. I actually think he's a better edge.

Interesting. I think his tape, I just think he's better when he's turned. Like when I watch him off the ball and taking on blocks and all that stuff, like he's good. He's a really, really good player. But I'm more excited about him as an edge rusher than I was as an off the ball

linebacker and there's a lot of both tapes like i promise you when you're watching the tape it's like where is he you got to find him it's not like is he at the right edge or left edge he's literally all over the place in that front seven explosive burst off the edge i wrote this in my notes sudden sudden sudden sudden rusher everything is sudden from his feet to his hands i love like the suddenness with his dip and rip move that he gets around excellent stop start quickness guys that like redirect get in the backfield quarterbacks are moving more and more like than ever before so when you get back there that's part that's like the first

piece of the puzzle right now what do you do because now you get a guy who runs a four or five who sees you coming or feels you coming right and is and does that the quick spin move or what you know he's able to right right I love that I hope people see that Because you're not going to hear that, but that was great. But it's better than me be like stop and. No, no, it's perfect. Like that's exactly. It's like, you see it on tape.

It's like, right? Yeah. That's what he does. He's got snap in his hands, elite closing bursts. I can't stand when people say, see, uh, heat seeking missile, but like, he's a heat seeking missile. Yes. He instinctively, he works half a man doesn't, doesn't show his pads a lot, has flexibility and strength to advance the rushes.

he's going through contact. Yeah, there's a lot to like. Now, versus the run, the vast majority of his positively graded run plays at edge or when he's in space and on the move, okay? That's what I notice. He's not a guy who's going to, like, set a hard edge and do that for you.

So to me, he's a three, four edge and like more of an undersized scheme. Like you think back like Ravens, Steelers, like guys that okay with his shorter, versions, right? But I like his tape. I like his tape a lot. But are you worried about the frame?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, let me... He gets thrown... So here's what I wrote. Gets knocked off course too easily at times, swallowed up on occasion. He's got... He's going to have to be an absolute surgeon

with his hands in order to continue this production at the next level. And it wasn't... He was... damn good all year. Phenomenal against Texas twice, but especially that first game. But there are moments where you're like, and that's why he's not in that first tier with Abdul.

So I went through and I looked at the top 10 leaders for sacks in the NFL last year in the regular season, okay? There's actually 11 players because there's a tie for 10th, right? I love when you do this shit. I love all of all the players, there was four of them go ahead four of them and there's probably a better way to gauge who the

past rushes are just a quick exercise we can get into this deeper if you want to later on just quick exercise four of them were sub 250 pounds okay so that was actually a higher number so there's 11 players we've done this in the past we wanted to spend like two right so and and one of them

is Nick Benito who was 240 pounds I saw that was a young cat another one's Willie Anderson who's 243 so some of these younger players are coming into the league. But what's most interesting to me... I think he's like $2.60 now, but go ahead. You're probably right.

Right. But anyways, what's more interesting to me is the height. Only one of them is under 6-3. And that's my dad, 6-2. So what was... I saw that and I was like, wow, this height thing, there might be a unicorn, man. I get it.

I get it. But there are three guys that we're going to talk about like this. Josiah Stewart from Michigan and Donovan as a Ruku from Boston, college, who we all like, and they're all explosive, and they win, and they get to the quarterback and all those things. But historically, are these guys really those early round picks? And is it maybe just one of them? Or is there a trend in the league? Is there now a trend in the league that these lighter, shorter edge rushers, whether it's coordinators finding a way, whether

more athletic, whatever it is, maybe there's a trend going that way. But it is interesting where we stand right now in this draft and looking at it historically. These guys like, I mean, Trey Hendricksson is the best pass rush or the league probably. He's 6.4-270. Miles Garrett, 6-4-272. These guys are big. So Watt, Watt.

T.J. Wartz. Yeah, 6-4-255. I mean, he's a bigger deal. He's got to be at least. Right. These guys, that's the other thing, where they come in and add weight. If you're 6-1, I don't know, we'll see what, you know, Jaylen Walker is.

I will say this, and I'm just going to mention him because you haven't mentioned him in your top tier. Maybe you're going to get to him later. I am absolutely in love with Donovan Azaruku from Boston College. All right.

We'll get to that. Okay. All right. We'll get back to it. Shocking. You love a B.C. kid. All right. So, but I honestly,

I think this is a perfect transition because I wanted it. I, like it was beautiful the way you just dropped that in. And it's why it's why after really studying more tape and like i i i always say this it's a air i'm air traffic control in my mind let's let's let's get all the planes taken off last may now let's start getting

in the right direction when we're getting into the season get to the senior bowl now we like we're getting a flight plan like we've we've established when our when our landing time is okay but now when we're in this part of the process as we start get like we're on the doorstep of this of the combine next week. And after the combine, with all the new information we have, then it's like, all right, like we got to stack them and land these planes in order. 90 seconds apart. We're a major airport.

Let's go. And that's why, as we get closer to the draft, the gap between Michael Williams, Jalen Walker, and James Pierce gets closer and closer and closer. Because I've got one cat who's massive, who's only 20 years old in Mikel, who's got all the traits to be a. elite, but we haven't seen it yet. Is it because he's only 20? Is it because he had an ankle injury?

He was slowed up, but I haven't seen it yet. But if they all pan out and they're the best version of themselves and they're developed properly, which you can't bank on all those things. But if they are, Mikel should be the best of this second tier. Okay. Jalen is even though he's played off the ball lineback, like I know what I'm getting with him. It's just, is that going to be enough to be a double-digit

sack guy every year in the league can he overcome that size that you're talking about and that's why as we get closer if i'm starting to make this decision james pierce to me from tennessee is starting to get like it gets tighter and tighter because i'm looking at james pierce and i'm saying well shit of these three guys he's he's got six four and a half two hundred and forty five 250 pounds he's estimated to run like four or five okay you're pretty long arms on tape from what I can see, okay? Carries his weight beautifully, got room to bulk up if he,

you know, properly if he does it. Six best pass rush win rate of, of all the, of all the edges this year and did it in the SEC. 22.4%. I want to give you some perspective on this while we're here. Okay, so many damn notes.

I'm going to probably mess this up. Give you a little perspective if I can find it. Oh, we actually built a graphic for it i was prepared for once um Tucker if you get that graphic let's put it the pass rush win rate leaders these are the guys from the combine if you're watching on on youtube watching on Spotify you're able to see this this is a list of the the past rush win rate leaders from the combine invites okay josiah stewart's up there 27.4 which is outrageous michigan you robinson we'll talk about him i don't know if we'll even

and get to him today, but he is an intriguing mid-round prospect that I've watched enough tape to say that I think I like him more than some other people. Abdul Carter, as expected, 23%. Prince William Oman Mieland from Ole Miss, 22.9%. Elijah Roberts, very interesting. 29-pound edge, 290 mensch. Soares up three, four-point stance in that scheme, playing a lot of interior defense. line. He's not your classic edge. He's 290. And he's still at 22.25. Then James Pierce.

I only see Abdul Carter there. I don't see Jalen Walker. I don't see Mikel. Okay. Also, feeding into just a quick side note, feeding into that is the fact that there were only two draft prospects last year with grades of 21% or higher. Liatu Litu and Jared Verse. We saw the rookie years that they had, right? The next highest in that group was 20.9% Chop Robinson. Good year as well. Yeah.

Those were all great grades, is my point. All great grades. But the only two last year were higher than 21% were Latu and Verse. This year you've got 10 guys, bench 10 compared to two. So when we talk about how great this class is, 10 guys, Josiah Stewart, Hugh Robinson, Abdul Carter, Umanmi Ellen from Ole Miss, Elijah Roberts, James Pierce Jr., Braden Swinson from LSU at 22%, Mike Green at 22%. David Walker, Central Arkansas, small school guy, really impressive tape. Ashton Galat from Louisville, all 10 of those guys,

all 10 with higher grades than 21% versus just two a year ago. So James Pierce, he's growing on me, man. I know you love them. First step explosiveness, outstanding, fast, long, like explosive athletic traits. Every move is sudden. I love this, right? He keeps offensive tackles in constant panic for what's next. Have you noticed that on tape?

Yeah, yeah. That's what the great pastor. Like, I've had the luxury and been, like, fortunate to spend a lot of time over my 25 years with former NFL players, all positions, and not like bad ones. If they're working in television, especially offensive linemen, they were damn good at their craft to a T. And, you know, we did this with Burski. And I do this to every former player. Like, what scares you the most? Always asking.

Tell me more. offensive linemen you can be a four three off the edge i don't give a shit you can be two 90 and be an absolute bulldozer i don't really care but if you can do both now i'm gonna panic now i'm in a panic and with james pierce it's like because he's so sudden and he's got those long arms he can get up and he can he can jack you back a little bit i i don't see like great core power from him in terms of like standing a guy up and driving him but i do see that like whack like sudden where he's going to jack you up just enough and then and then the quickness and suddenness are going to take over right the striking pop is what I wrote over and over

again he just said he like that pop um advances through contact which we all we always look for um much more power in in terms of that first strike and in his hands than his frame would indicate moves the quarterback if you go back and just look no matter how it is whether he's on a stunt, a twist, rushing off the edge, outside, in move, inside out move, all of it. He is a total headache to deal with in the passing game. Count how many times this guy, even if it's not technically a pressure or a hurry or whatever the bleep your, like, numbers are, if it's not a sack, count how many times he makes

that quarterback think about him. And as a former terrible quarterback at a low level and, like, there's nothing worse than having to take your train of thought off of what you're processing and knowing that this guy's consistently doing and it and it takes a toll over the course of a game look at homes in the super bowl i mean that's exactly what's happening now he's a bit high cut quarter count slower than ideal redirecting in the backfield that's that's the thing if i've got one bitch about james pierce junior as a prospect it's that everything else is like he's long body beautiful fast explosive sudden pop in his hands all of that he leaves a lot of sacks and plays

not a lot he leaves more than you'd like to see on on tape he leaves him on the field because i think he's got some tightness in him when he gets back there we talked about jalen walker it's it's right yep he's like he's not quite a chris feelman always used to say that it's like watching the titanic Titanic try to change court. Yep. He's not that. Like, don't, don't get me wrong here. But he takes a quarter count longer and we kind of lose his balance sometimes when he gets

in the backfield. Yeah. And I think more of a consistent plan with him, but you can say that about just about all these guys. In support, active, excellent range, gets off of blocks, very good in per spout. pursuit can get into pads and move you can get into his pads and move him a little bit in the run game but for the most part stays active and disruptive i think he's a perfect fit like wide nine tampa two right defensive end three four edge he we know what he does best what

here's my comp adafay oh way hmm got a Penn state Baltimore Ravens i see some similarities i'm not saying it's perfect but some similarities there. I don't hate that one. That's good. So that's where I am. And I don't want to sit here and Shamar Stewart, we've talked a lot about power-based, loved his, loved his Missouri tape, talked to us got out the other days. Like, yeah, well, what about the six other tapes I watched? I, you know, like I feel like I'm fighting more people than the league on Shamar Stewart. And I explained it the other day. So I don't want to like be repetitive here. But there are some people in the league that worry when the production doesn't match up.

there's a couple guys you can look in history and say, yeah, it didn't match up for Chandler Jones or for this guy. But at the end of the day, if there's two guys that were, it did work out and they became great pros, there's like 20 guys that didn't. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't want to give. DeNeil Hunter might have been another one. So I, but I still like Stewart. I think in the right in the right environment, Shemar Stewart's got a chance to be really good. And Mike Green, we talked about him a lot of the combine, just dominant. That's my tier two. No as a Rupert.

Tier three. I'm dying to talk about it, man. I mean, I'm going to let you go here. At the top of tier three are two of your guys. So I'm going to let you take it. I've talked too much per usual. But here's this, here's this tier three where I think we get into early second round. And I'm going to list off.

the tier three and know that there's a tier four behind it with a lot of really big names and a lot of good players that I all think belong in that third round range. Okay. That's tier four. But tier three to me is your boy as a Ruku, Nick Scorton, both of your boys, Braden Swinson, who's quickly becoming one of my guys, JTTT from Ohio State, Oluafemi, Ola Dejo, Ola Dejo, Ola Dajio. Joe, who I love from UCLA. I just love his story. He's another guy who played off the ball, move up, found his home at Edge this past year, unbelievable production, unbelievable, just dog traits.

I think he's going to be a really good pro. And Josiah Stewart, who was at the top of that list, if you remember, 27.4 is absolutely, that's more than a quarter of the time that he's going to wind up winning his pass rush, which is just stupid. So let's have a debate on on as a as a Rocco Donovan as a rock. It's as a rock who I looked it up yesterday. 6-2-248 long arms, 34 and a half. Here's what I wrote.

Fishing with hands and feet, not a lot of wasted movement. Not as explosive or fast as James Pierce, but I would say better body control. We talked about that. I would totally agree with that. Great body control. He doesn't have that a lot of waste. When he has to redirect, he's everything's under control. He gets into offensive tackles pads.

He locates the ball. His special trait is then to disengage in a flash. That's his special trait. He is so good with his hands and his ability to disengage. Rushes with good body lean. Good job keeping offensive tackles off balance. He does a really good job. If you watch him on tape, you get used to it.

Outside in or inside out. move. Excellent dip with that body control around the edge. Everything's body control. I keep going back to that. But he's short, man. You got moved off course too easily by bigger, more competent offensive tackles.

That's what I noticed is I was going through his tape, going through his pass rush tape. Bigger, more competent offensive tackles really pushed him off course easier than you'd want to see from a guy you're talking about as a top 50 pick sometimes. We'll need to become an absolute masterclass is what I wrote with his pass rush plan and continue with his hands in order to develop into a double-digit sack guy in the NFL. But he led the nation this past year with 1.38 sacks per game and second nationally was 16 and a half sacks only behind Mike Green who had 17 playing at Marshall. And also his his pass rush win rate

while not in the top 10 in this ridiculous class was still like fourth or fifth compared to last year it was 18.2%. I, it's such a lazy cop, but there's a lot of similarities with Harold Landry from Tennessee. I just don't think he's quite at that level that I thought Landry was.

Go ahead. Floor is yours. What I love about him, first of all, yes, led the FBS in Saks per game. He also led the ACC and tackles for loss. So when you look at a player, he's 248 pounds. you look like a player, you look at that kind of a player,

and you expect him to be a good pass rusher, and you expect him to be slippery and get into the backfield, and he does all of those things. But the thing I really love about his game is the way he dictates terms of engagement with offensive tackles. And what I mean by that is he will slip you to the inside, he will beat you around the edge. You're like, this guy's so quick, he's smaller, he's quick,

I'm having a hard time keeping him out of the backfield. And the next thing you know, you're taking a deeper step, or you're kind of holding back a little bit to try to counter that, athleticism and that explosiveness. And he shoots those 34-inch arms on you. And he stands you up with that explosive burst. And all of a sudden, you're like, is this 248-pound kid stacking me right now in the

run game? Yeah. He sure is, man. I just like the way he sets things up. And it's in the run game as much as it is in the past game. That's what really took me back is that. And he's second on the team with 80 tackles and 20-5-packers for loss. Yeah.

I mean, that's-80 tackles because he can win. in so many ways he's he's going to beat you to the inside gap he's going to beat you around the outside and again you're trying to counter that and you do that as an offensive lineman by taking a deeper step by you know sitting back a little bit trying not to get so far out that he can come you know he can beat you off the ball and the next thing you know he shoots those arms he's standing you up and it's it's kind of out of nowhere and then what do you do do you put two blockers on him well his alignment makes that pretty tough to do man and then you run away from him good luck that kid closes in pursuit super well.

He gets down the line and makes plays chasing running backs super well. I knew he was going to be good. And I already liked what I had seen. And then the more I dug in on his tape, I was like, if I'm going to take a chance on a shorter guy, I'm going to take a chance on a shorter guy with outrageous production, with long arms, a great motor and great tape. I think he's, I get what you're saying.

And there are times. I see it too. If you can get, if you're a 325 pound guy or a 315 pound guy and you can get your hands on him, he's in trouble. He's light. He's short. Good luck getting your hands on him. That's all I'm to say.

Good luck getting a fit on that guy. 30 guys. 36 guys, I guess. 36 guys we have with grades in the first three rounds. Defensive tackle edge. This group is special. It really is. So, as I said before, stop with the,

this class isn't that good because it's loaded. And this is what NFL teams that are successful, this is when they, like, this is a heist. This is like the gold rush. I'm telling you, like the guys that do this at a high level, Howie Roseman, right, Brett Veach, Schneider, go down. I mean, like, less need what he did last year. Less need, less need two of them from the same school.

Let's go get our guys. We're back to using draft picks. Yeah. So the greatest t-shirt of all time, though. I mean, Billy Bean, Eric DeCosta, Nick Casario learned from a pretty good one in Belichick. All those, you know, bills, we can debate his drafting record and all that stuff. But like the premise was always there. Let's get these big guys up front and we're loaded this year.

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