The McShay Show - Draft-Eligible Defenders To Know for the College Football Season

Episode Date: July 28, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! The guys are diving deep on the defensive side of the ball and breaking down the top prospects they think could be selected early in the 2026 NFL draft. Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s scouting reports and tape notes during the Summer Scouting Series. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:05) McShay Show News and Notes(9:05) Evaluating The Top Defensive Prospects(16:53) Evaluating Caleb Downs [Ohio State Safety](21:20) Evaluating Peter Woods [Clemson IDL](23:35) Evaluating TJ Parker [Clemson EDGE](26:35) Evaluating Caleb Banks [Florida IDL](37:45) Evaluating Rueben Bain Jr. [Miami DL](45:30) Evaluating Gabe Jacas [Illinois OLB](51:20) Evaluating Matayo Uiagalelei [Oregon EDGE](54:10) Evaluating Anthony Hill Jr. [Texas LB] + Deontae Lawson [Alabama LB](1:09:05) Evaluating More Defensive Prospects The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know, Munch, the longer I'm in this business, the more I just absolutely love studying defensive prospects on tape. Even more so than offensive, I'm being honest. There's something about the violence, the reaction skills, the rallying to the ball and the energy after a play. So today's the perfect way to wrap up phase one of our two-phase summer scouting series. And there's only 269 days until the NFL draft. Munch, you good? I'm good, man. Always are, brother. Give me some beach vibes, please.

Quick housekeeping matters, okay? First of all, we're doing defensive prospects today. I know this is where I get yelled at. McShay, you talk to, skip to the players. We all want to hear the players. Deal with it. It's going to be just one or two minutes, okay? First off, newsletters out tomorrow.

If you don't subscribe, come on, man. Let's go. Let's go. It's called the McShay report. Google it. I'm not Kirk Signetti. I'm just saying, Google the McShay report. And you'll find, It's the quickest way you can get to it.

And you'll figure out how to subscribe to it. You can subscribe for free. For premium, premium users, you will, you'll get the opportunity to, like, most recently we did the Q&A, right? They get to send in their questions. We answered, like, I think almost 30 of them between the show that we did and the newsletter. This one coming up is going to be a deeper dive into the top defensive prospects in all

of college football for the 2026 NFL. all draft. So get involved. We need your support. We're building this thing. And speaking of support, Mench, how can the fine folks help us out here? Go to YouTube, find the Mixie show, the Muxhay Show, almost as a Mekshay report. Find the Mekshay show. Hit the follow button. Go to Spotify, hit the subscribe button. He's at McShay 13 on all his socials. I am at you good Mench on all mine. Perfect. Easy. I want to, we're always doing the McShay this, the mishay that. Let's talk about Mench for a minute. The pleasure, the absolute pleasure of joining, MENCH has a podcast, by the way.

Do you know, it's October. I forgot you were going to do this. October 22nd, I think is when we started this thing. The screen, the screeners is the name of the podcast, folks. This is the first time I'm mentioning it. And like, shame on me. I don't let you talk enough. I don't promote your stuff.

What's wrong with me? Well, that's ending. No, but at all seriousness. You've been growing it and developing it with a good friend, with your son. I want you to share, because I had an awesome time. I went on with you and Ty and the boys. And we, like, we had a great time talking about draft day. If you want to hear a, I think it's a ridiculous story of my pride and where I was in life back when, when draft day was taped.

I'll give you a tiny little preview. I thought I was going to be in the movie and I wasn't and I was pissed. And I'll tell you the whole story if you go check it out. But Medge, give a little, you always promote the McShea show, rightfully so, because you're every better part of it as I am. But why don't you promote your show for a second? Well, it's screen the screener on Instagram and on X right now and on Spotify. So you can find it that way. It's more, we talk about all different sports.

It's a lot lighter. It's a lot more of us just ripping on each other. I think it's funny that you thought that the draft day conversation was so much fun because it got my blood pressure up. Just a quick note of that movie. I can't stand that movie. I just feel like it's so unrealistic. And I have friends that love to give me the hardest time about it. Every time we go into the draft,

I get text saying, how are my pancakes? If you've seen that movie, you know what that means. But I do with my best friend with my son. And it is, it's just a lot of fun. And I get to blow off all the scenes that I don't get to blow off here. You know what I mean? It's kind of like a little of a lighter thing. And listen, if you want to hear my voice, I can't shut up on that show.

They don't get to speak on that one. I'm glad you were able to do that. And we'll continue to promote that as we go moving forward. I've got some other stuff real quickly before we get the defensive prospects. Just one other thing. I would be remiss not to mention one of my best friends in the world is a world champion. I know everyone knows that I'm friends with Portnoy. I grew up with Portnoy.

We were born in the same day in the same hospital in Salem, Massachusetts back in 1977. Except do the math. It's starting to look ugly. No, to my entire, basically my entire life, starting with like T-ball at five years old, okay? And good friends. There's like a group of nine of us. They've been best friends from the small town, Swampscott, Massachusetts. Also part of that friend group. We've got a chef in Matt O'Neill. We've got one of the preeminent artists on Martha's Vineyard, Trager DePetro. Jason Cowlishman now, who's the superintendent of schools. We've been a fortunate. bunch. Pete Wood Fork, who's one of the top executives at Major League Baseball in New York City.

But the guy that's like maybe doing the best of all of us, Todd Klein. Yeah. Todd Klein. Oh. Todd Klein. Let me give you a little background on Todd Klein, who I've known also, I think, six years old. Todd Klein grew up, Lynn, ladder and scaffolding. the largest ladder and scaffolding company in the world in his family he grew up we used to make

fun of him because he's the only one of us who had some money you know uh but never like he would never show never talk about it was like honestly embarrassed by it wanted to be one of the guys um and was we call him the captain of the friends now long short he could have been the heir apparent to the kingdom, to the latter kingdom, right? Turned it down. Went his own way. Walked on at Maryland. Basically was catching in the bullpen at Maryland.

Took a job out of college and like started doing like some agent stuff and working for agencies and started working this company out in L.A. That helped put, I think, the Staples Center together with L.A. And ESPN and those, that's the studio, the L.A. studio is out there. and then grew that and then got kept rising grinding this guy is like unbelievable with people unbelievable friend the loyalty is beyond like all of my friends it's one of the greatest gifts in life that I have is this group of nine friends and the loyalty we text constantly we talk we meet up just went up to swamp scott for third of july the whole thing but klein keeps keeps climbing. And I know a lot of executives at Miami, the Dolphins, and he winds up getting nothing

to do with me. And he introduces me to more. Now all of a sudden, but he gets the job with the dolphins as the chief marketing officer winds up getting all those people, including hard rock, including an especially hard rock, to put the money in so they can build the hard rock stadium. That goes so well. He gets hired Tottenham. right and now he's the president of tottenham i don't know i mean i'm a football guy americano okay but so so now he's at tottenham and the and he's doing such a good job of tottenham chelsea wants to hire him is their president like running the whole fucking thing man he's the he's like the guy there's ownership and there's klein they wind up in like a six

i'm not going to get the details a lot of legal stuff like a six-month or longer battle over Klein. He's having to take out loans to make sure he could get by because he's not getting paid here and hasn't gotten paid there and all of that stuff. Takes over Chelsea. And they're here in the states in New York. And they just won the world championship.

It's cool. So cool. And I know it's cliche. I just a nod to my man Klein. It is cliche. And I don't know, obviously. nearly as well as he do but he is one of those guys it's just as good of a human being like he is just a a good dude every time i interact actually better yeah yeah he just you know he makes you feel like

you're the most important the room person in the room no matter who you are so that was awesome that just happened a couple days ago and we hadn't been on since so i just wanted to give him give him some loves i've no client or forever he's a world fucking champion that's awesome that's pretty cool you know so yeah anyway um now let's talk defensive process We've done the top eight quarterbacks. We did a show. I talked about in the open two phases of the of the summer scouting series. We obviously did a lot of draft review in May and early June, but then we got into our what we called the summer scouting series. I didn't kind of realize that at the time, but it's like it's very clearly in my brain now is like a two phase part, two parts to the phase or two phases, whatever you want to call it. The first phase is what we're kind of wrapping. up today in my mind. Doesn't mean we're done watching tape. In fact, we got a ton of tape left to watch, even to get through our like top 100 in the preseason. But we've made a point of emphasis to make sure we get the top quarterbacks. We've done eight, I think it was eight of them, right,

from Clubnick to Lenore Sellers, to Nussmeyer, to Mateer, all of those guys, right? Then we did a show on the Manning Passing Academy. We did a show on the Clemson defense, which probably has the most prospects of any of any defense. And Clemson as a team has the most prospects, like 2026 draft prospects of any school in the country. So we decided we're going to stop down and do one on that. Watched a lot of tape on those guys. We did Caleb Downs and kind of baked in some top corners and safeties with that.

We did Jeremiah Love, the running back from Notre Dame, and baked in the top running backs. We did wide receipt. So we did all these things. But the only part excluding offensive line that we, have been covered. The mailbag, by the way, was great, too. The mailbag is a lot of fun. And the mailbag. So the only thing that we haven't covered is kind of the top defensive prospects as we head into the college football season. We're turning the page pretty soon to August,

one month away. And phase two, and we'll guide you through it, but phase two is there's going to be an appropriately early mock draft in there. We're going to go through position rankings again. we're going to start really diving into college football too, okay? And the rookies and what's going on in training camp and also. So we got our plate full. But that to me is phase two of the summer scouting series because we're still going to be watching tape, preparing for the season and all of that. So to me, like the best way to wrap this up is give you kind of an overview of defensive prospects.

We've already done three in detail, okay? We've done three in detail and we'll get to those guys in a minute. But I also wanted to share, like, I just went and looked. And I started in the open with, like, I've fallen in love, like, as time has gone on, and I still love evaluating quarterbacks, and I still love evaluating receivers and the running backs and the tight ends and all that stuff in every position, to be honest. But there's something about putting on defensive tape, man. And I feel like we, because we get so caught up in the offensive guys and specifically the skill guys, the guys who are catching the ball, carrying the ball, and we get most caught up in the

quarterbacks. I feel like the defensive guys don't get as much love, right? So that's what today's show is. And I wanted to reiterate, or not reiterate, I wanted to emphasize, like, if you go back and look, and I did this morning, if you go back and look at like the history of the draft, it's kind of like 50-50 in round one. And in the couple years where it's a little bit weighted towards offense in round one, it gets sorted out in round two and round three, okay?

I just went back and looked. You ready for this, match? Only nine defensive players were drafted in round one of 2024. And that was an anomaly. In the last several years, that's the closest we've come to, you know, in the single digits and all that for defensive players. And that, remember, that was the year where, just a couple years ago, not hard to remember.

There were six quarterbacks draft in the top 12. We broke a record for the most quarterbacks taken and that early, right? But otherwise, typically half of round one defensive players. And you go back to 2023, like, it's not just defensive players. I do feel in a lot of instances, not always, but in a lot of instances, these guys on the defensive side are coming in and making huge impacts early, right? 23 hutch stingley sauce hamilton and a lot and like a handful more and that's just round one okay 2022 Jared verse quinine Mitchell quinine Mitchell Byron Murphy Dallas Turner and a couple other

guys big impacts early impacts and we expect the same from the 2025 rookie class right Abdul Carter, we know he's going to make a big impact. Mason Graham, defensive tackle, Cleveland, Michael Williams, Kenneth Grant, Jada Barron, James Pierce, Malachi Stark, Jalen Walker, like a lot, if not all of those guys are going to make quality to like damn good impacts for their respective teams. So today it's about showing like if half of the product of this draft machine that's just, barreling down the road every year and gaining steam is on these defensive players, it's our responsibility to make sure that we're giving enough emphasis there.

So with all that is a backdrop, I just, I love the perspective stuff and looking back. There are three players that we've already evaluated. And I want to encourage everyone for these three players, which I already mentioned one of them, Caleb Downs is safety, might be the best prospect in the entire. draft talent-wise, talent instincts, all of it. Tape-wise, I should say. And then the two Clemson guys that we already mentioned, that we already did a deep dive on with that Clemson, Clemson show that we did, Peter Woods, Interior Defensive Lyman, and T.J. Parker,

the Edge. They're all, like, in my opinion, tracking, all three of them tracking to be top 10 picks. And I want to encourage everyone right now. everyone's got a busy summer. I get it. June, July, beach, mountains, all the fun stuff that we've, family, kids, all this, you know, camps, this stuff.

But we're now, like, getting closer to August. So maybe it's a week before. Maybe it's mid-August, whenever it is. I encourage you to go back and, like, it's hard to find a deeper dive in three guys that are going to be top 10 pick, potentially top 10 picks than what we provided for you in the last month or so, okay?

And you can go back on, YouTube, the McShay Show, obviously Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, and you can just scroll right down, find those shows, and throw it in when you're in the car, mowing your lawn, laying out by the pool or the beach, digging ditches in the backyard, like mention the summer up in New Hampshire,

whatever it is. But I do want to give us an opportunity, since they are the top three guys, and this is a contained show. Maybe additional note, one or two quick things you want to say on those guys. I'll follow up and just go one at a time. Talk on downs.

I'll follow up. We'll go to Woods, follow up. Parker, follow up. And then we'll get into five more guys that I've evaluated on tape. I think you threw in an extra one according to your text today. Yeah. Because you just can't get enough. And I love that about you.

And then we're going to kind of tree top it for you with a bunch of other guys, with a handful of other players as we get close to the college football season, keep an eye on these guys as being high impact players for their respective schools. So Caleb Downs, what you got for me, man? If you were to kind of summarize or something, a point of emphasis that you want to make. The play I can't get out of my mind when I think about Caleb Downs is the play he made to stop Tyler Warren. I think it was on fourth down, maybe third down in the Penn State game where he closed over the top of the other route and just made a, you know, just a big play in that game. I think he's so competitive matching up with tight ends.

I think he's great near the box, but I think it's a mistake to think because he's good at those things that he's a box safety. I think he can do it all. If you put him in a position to play over the top, he can do that. I've looked at some of these other safeties now, and I'm going to be honest. I don't think there's anyone, I haven't seen anyone that's even close to what he can do in terms of the versatility, in terms of the playmaking, in terms of the instincts. So to me, it's tough to take a receiver. I mean, I take a safety that early.

I get it. Not a lot of guys go that early. He deserves all the credit that he's getting right now. his instincts are like he's athletically gifted there's no question he's all those things um and you know six foot 205 pounds estimated four four five speed all of that stuff what's different and special about him is his instincts right and and and we spent a lot of time i thought it was funny actually looking back we spent a lot of time on that on that show of kaleb downs talking about how he's the closest thing that I've seen.

I think you agreed in terms of its instincts, reading, awareness, understanding of the game of football to Ed Reed. We get done with that show. God knows how long, like an hour or so typically. We've done better recently, keeping it under an hour. We probably want today. Yeah. About 18 minutes in and we're just now getting to players.

But Dan, our wonderful producer, Dan, or jumped on. I was like, so like, do you think the best comp for him is Ed Reed? And I was like, uh, not like they don't play the same exact game. That's what makes it different. I, so like when I talked about Ed Reed and we talked about Ed Reed so much in there. And even you could do some like Troy Palomalu too. He doesn't, he doesn't roam and get kind of out of position, but like make up for it with the,

like, like mind blowing plays. But there are two of the guys that just jump in my head of like, how did they get there? You know, like, how did they read that before everyone else in the defense read that? So that's what I would say. But he's like Ed Reed was more of a free. He was a roamer. He was deep half. I mean, Downs has good ball skills, but Ed Reed was like a receiver.

You know, like, so I don't want people if you're just kind of tuning in or you've watched a couple games of Ohio State and you hear his name called a lot and see him making a lot of place. I don't think he's Ed Reed. Like, I don't think that they have across the board similar traits. It's the instincts. I think, as you mentioned, like, his ability to play deep is good, really good. I think he's at his best when he's kind of roaming around, you know, near the line of scrimmage. They used him like the three safety looks. He was in the middle.

He's like six, seven yards off the line of scrimmage. They adjusted to that later in the season. they've had him play kind of like, I don't even want to call it a big nickel, but like an extra linebacker coming off the edge and doing it. He's played all around. So that to me is special.

I'm excited to see too. I forget. I had the number. Was it eight, I think eight guys from Ohio State's defense got drafted? Something like that. It's not yet. Yeah.

So, so I'm excited this year. It was nine? It might be nine. Okay. I'm excited this year. to see it ain't the same supporting cast. If he's playing that third safety or off the ball linebacker at times,

like he doesn't have those four cats up front. He doesn't have Captain Jack. He doesn't have Tui Amolale. He doesn't have, you know, the defensive tackles. He doesn't have the linebackers around him. Although, um, he's sunny style, Sunny Stiles is back. So my point is this is, this year's a whole new set of challenges. Now he was the guy, but now he's got to be the guy without the support around him.

So that's going to be fun to watch with him. Peter Woods, interior defensive lineman for Clemson, summarize thoughts, whatever you got. Love the versatility. He can play on the inside, can play on the outside. He's already elite run stopper at this point in my mind and can do it a little bit of everything. And as a run defender, I think the ceiling as a pass rusher is really high. He just hasn't gotten there yet. You see flashes of it, but I have no concerns that he will get there and be a very good pass rusher as well.

I think he's got a chance Woods does to be quite honestly, maybe the first defensive player taking, even though the vast majority of not all NFL teams will have a higher grade on downs, he is a safety. Right. So it wouldn't shock me if he takes that next step, more of a plan as a pass rush. better counters, just mastering his craft. It wouldn't shock me if he's the first defensive player taken, okay? The things that jump out to me are like, you shouldn't be able to move at 6 foot 3, 3, 315 pounds

the way this guy moves. And his hands are lightning quick. And so that tells me he has the traits to really develop as a pass rush. So I mean, and he plays his ass off too, man. He does. He does. He does. He does.

He does. He does. He does. Ass off. And that's not always the case with those big, fellas right they wear down early he's got a motor about him that's that's a little bit different um granted only you know i you know i also love that he plays a little fullback too right i know i love when the big man get on the offensive side of the ball you're old this guy j peggeese um so that so that's

woods what i found interesting in our conversation again check it out on youtube spotify apple wherever you get your podcast. Go back in the Clemson podcast. You know, just breaking down the team, in our opinion that not at our, I think in most teams in the NFL, their scouting departments would agree. Clemsons has got the most prospects. So we did the whole show on that.

I think I had a slightly higher grade on Woods than you did Parker, but vice versa for you. I did. Parker pressure 6-3, 2605 pounds, played 640 snaps. That's up. That's like in the ballpark of what Abdul Carter was doing and was allowed for by every NFL scout for like the amount of snaps, the motor, the effort, all that stuff. So give us, give us your your love on T.J. Parker and why you think he might even be a better

prospect when it's all said and done. Well, I said it at the time and I feel that way still is that he's more, Parker's more Jared versus than he is Abdul Carter. And what I mean by that is he's a power guy. He wants to run right through you. And you saw that in the Florida State game. He ran over an offensive guard, South Carolina game. He ran over an offensive tackle.

I love that aspect of his game. And I think he branches everything off of that as a pass rusher. He works everything else off of the power, which is smart. That's his greatest strength and then use it to set up everything else. As a run defender, he can set the edge. I think he's got to be a little more consistent, but he can set the edge, hold his ground i think he's tough so to me i'll take the edge over the interior guy and i do think that parker's a little farther along in terms of his development as a pass rusher i like him a lot too man

power translates to the nfl right power translates to the nfl and that's what he's got you mentioned like he i wrote down in my notes like the guard the sorry the right tackle for georgia just ran over not like knocked him back and you tripped up like absolutely ran over him, ran over the Florida State right guard, play 24 against Virginia, ran over the left tackle. And as I mentioned in this show, he's probably still responsible for nightmares,

like reoccurring nightmare. We've all had reoccurring nightmares, right? Reoccurring nightmare for 77, the right tackle for Pittsburgh. I think he's probably still having nightmares about number three, T.J. Parker, coming off the edge because it was an ugly game for him. Yeah, I don't think there's like with those two guys up front and

It's rare to have that like you got to go back to Clemson I don't know how many years ago it was when they had the three it was a three defensive lineman drafted in the first round At least two I don't know who the third was I think it was three okay was it Dexter was it Lawrence Farrell and Wilkins wilkins well yes wilkins wilkins Wilkins, sorry. Wilkins, yeah, Wilkins. Yeah, and Farrell was a surprise.

Mike Mayock drafted him at six or something crazy. We were all shocked. But to have those two guys up front, and it's pretty special. And then they've got some other guys that we talked about in the show as well. All right. So whether you have Downs Parker Woods or Downs Woods, I think, mentioned I both agree. And I'm interested to see that that change.

Are there other guys that we went and evaluated tape on that you would rank higher? But coming into it, that that was the top three okay next up for me based off our tape study now i'm going to give you some names that we're going to go through today okay interior defensive lineman caleb banks from florida edge reuben bain junior from miami linebacker anthony hill junior from texas edge gave jackis from Illinois and linebacker Deontay Lawson from Alabama

and then we'll get to a bunch of other guys as well and I know you have a mensch special that you're going to unveil for us. I think you like him, I think you like him too. We'll see. We'll get to him. So let me start on Banks real quick.

Yeah. I gave him a high grade. I gave him a 91-92. Ooh, I gave him a high grade but not that high. I believe in this guy. He's a fifth year player. I'll give you the background on him.

Spent first two seasons at Louisville didn't do a whole lot before transferring to Florida. 2021 did very little. 2022 did some. Played sparingly during those first two years. And then 19 tackles, one and a half for loss, one sack is a rotational player for Florida in 2023. But in 2024, he kind of broke out. And that's the tape that I studied.

He had 20, and that doesn't sound like massive production, but he played a lot more snaps. And he wound up with 21 tackles, seven for loss and four and a half sacks, also two force fumbles. This guy is 6-6. He's number 88 in your program. 6-6, number one in your hearts, anyone who watches the movie the program. 6-6, 320 pounds, estimated 5-2, which is about, you know, solid. Judging by the way he runs, I would. guess he's closer to like five flat four nine something no and you look at him and you know i'm with you

i look at it i'm like that man is 320 pounds like the way he carries his weight whole really unique i mean he he he doesn't look like he's got a lot of body fat for a guy that weighs 320 pounds and that's part of that is having that six foot six frame but go ahead yeah you don't write body beautiful many times in your scouting report when you're talking about a 320 pounder he is body beautiful he runs well impressive athleticism for size i was impressed by he's not like it's it's it's different like when aran donnell's 279 pounds coming out or some of these other you know smaller three techniques um it's not that same twitch and sudden right but when you you have to train your brain that i'm looking at 320 i'm looking at six six 320 so his takeoff man like whether he's flashing in front of a guard on a slant or

getting up you know penetrating up the field it's pretty damn impressive yes um he's got snap in his hands too and he's got some upper body like that pop and i also like his flexibility i thought he was pretty flexible for what i have it right there i had the same i was like dude's flexible i wrote it in my notes i was like this guy is flexible for an interior guy so these all you start stacking these traits on top of one another. Now, he's not a space eater. So you look at his frame and you're like, are we, we looking at like a Casey Hampton, a zero technique eating? He's just not. I don't mind his effort. Like, I think he's, I think he plays hard. He's not the type of guy he's going to turn his back to it and give that lazy rep against double teams. But consistently he loses versus

double teams. So that's an area I want to see him improve. But The funny part is I think he's also kind of got some country strong to him. He dominates one-on-ones. It's kind of a weird thing to watch because he just, he can't, whether it's too high maybe, and I don't see him like rising like some other guys, but he can't quite take on that double team and just occupy, but he's, when he's working one-on-one, I want to explain this.

One of the most important things I learned in scouting with defensive linemen, whether it's an edge or an interior guy, you're not going to win with pure speed very often in the league. If you don't have the combination of the power to put fear in offensive linemen, and mention those as a former offensive linemen. There are tricks to protect yourself against pure speed that doesn't have power to threaten me, right? To strike that fear. So I learned probably too late in my career,

maybe in like 2010 or something, the importance of power and not. his power. We talked to Bruske about this, Teddy Bruske a long time ago when we sat down and watched a bunch of tape with him. Was that the Mike of Parsons here? Sean Lee year, I thought. Oh, Sean Lee. Yeah, yeah. And the other linebacker there. That's right. I knew it was earlier than that because Parsons was only like five years ago. Right. So the torso flexibility and why is this important? The power and torso flexibility. If you watch the great defensive linemen in the NFL, guys who don't necessarily run if you're an edge like a four or five or a defensive tackle run like a four or seven,

guys who they're quick off the snap can kind of jolt offensive linemen a little bit, get them disoriented, get them on their heels a little bit, and then can work through contact. That's the thing I learned. And it was like there's an epiphany of, wait, you're not just going to win. with speed. These guys are too good at the next level. How do you work with? Because they're always going to reach you at some point. How do you work from that point? And so when I watched him, and yes, I saw that there's only four and a half sacks last year. And I watched on tape and he's got to get home a little bit more. I think there are times where I'm watching him and he left a couple

sacks on the field. He doesn't necessarily quite know some counters and different things. But his effort's great and when he engages and gets that guy jacked back up there goes my microphone but it's like jack back up right and then and then there's that moment of truth when they when the offensive lineman recincts his hips and gets inside can he then work with that torso flexibility and have that country strong that core strength to work through that that edge you always hear about the edge he bends a sharp edge and all that stuff with the edge and edge rushers, but like the really good pass rushers work half a man, meaning I'm not trying to beat men. If I'm trying to beat mensch, I'm not taking his full body on. I'm working his right

side or his left side. Maybe I'm starting at his right side with a plan to get to his left side and then kind of work. And by work and like this, you hear shave the edge and bend the edge and all that stuff and working half a man, it's all about when you get that moment of truth where we now are engaged because it was inevitable, can I kind of grind my way around, around that right or left side of you as a massive human being? The great ones do. The good ones do sometimes. The guys that fail and become draft busts are the ones that just never learned because they were so fast and they were so athletic and they were so talented and they were able to kind of jack a guy up, but then didn't have any counters, didn't have that torso flexibility, didn't have a

this guy's got a lot of the traits. And that's why I gave him a high grade. And I recognize I'm probably higher than a lot of people on it. And I'm not saying that's where he's going to wind up definitively going in the first round or definitively going in the top 20. But I'm saying if he makes that next step and continues to develop, I think he's got a shot, man. He, to me, no question. He's a first round talent.

I think the two knocks that I had where I maybe didn't have. I gave him a 90, I think. I wasn't quite as high as you. So it's in the same ballpark. But the two knocks I had was the P6-6, man. It's tough to keep those pads down sometimes. And so the pad level comes up, which hurts them both in the run game and as a pass rusher. And the other thing that jumped on to me a little bit is his feet aren't married to his hands quite yet as a pass-rrrrrisher.

And when that comes together, watch out. I will say this four and a half sacks for an interior defensive line, and I'm not mad at it. I don't think that's that bad of a number. And then when you watch the tape, he's way more disruptive. And I am convinced. I am convinced that he can play anywhere along the defensive line regardless of the scheme. I think he can play outside and a base four-man front inside. I think he can two-gap where he can stack and shed guys.

He can be disruptive getting into gaps. I think the one place you might not want to play him is nose tackle in a four-man front where he's got a shade the guard. If you shade the guard or the center and you put him in a position where he's going to have to take on a lot of double teams, that's not the greatest thing for him. But if you don't, there's pretty much anything else he can do along the defensive line. There's like honestly. And again, another motor.

Another motor guy. This guy chases. He makes plays. He doesn't, he's not, you know, gearing, he's not gearing down after that first move. He keeps working. He is, I watched, I'll be honest to you, after the first 20 snaps I had watched, I was like, this kid's going early, early. And then I watch more, and that's why you do it.

and you see a couple of the flaws and the holes in his game that he's got to work on. But man, when you did good tape, is freaking awesome. It is awesome. I would put in here three technique, five technique. He's a disruptive interior defensive line with a combination of flexibility, mobility, core strength, and upper body pop to play both as a three technique and a five technique in certain schemes, not all. Four eye, yep, that's that area.

the line, yep. And to be an immediate impact starter. Ascending talent, I believe it's going to merge as a first round pick, want to see more effectiveness versus double team and more finishing, getting home, past rushing production. I said, like, I don't know if they're perfect cops. I was looking for taller defensive linemen like that, that have that versatility. We're not, who are not zeros. And I wrote not a zero, zero T or a one T type guy.

but like Eric Armstead, Callais Campbell, you know what I mean? I went with Armstead initially. I think it's Callais Campbell all the way. Like I see Clayys Campbell, you know, got another guy that played his college ball in the state of Florida. I think he was at Miami, right? Yep. I see Callas Campbell in his game so much.

I love, by the way, both great comps. I mean, if you're getting compared to those two guys as a taller defensive tackle, that's good news for you. So that's, that's Caleb Banks. purposely did some extra time on him just because I think he's getting, not that anyone's getting looked at a lot or not, I think he might elevate to that like higher tier, right? Next on the list is Ruben Bain out of Miami.

Let me give you some background. I'll let Mench go first on the traits and what he saw. But the background on Ruben Bain is 6.3, 276 pounds, estimated 472 for whatever that's worth right now, okay? two-year player at Miami, both years at Miami, and a starter entering his third season for the Cains, okay? In 2023, he kind of just broke out. Everyone knew he was like, I don't know if a five-star or whatever the fuck it was. He was a big-time star recruit.

But he didn't take him long to take over his starting job. It was game three, okay? Started the final 10 games for Miami, finished with 44 tackles. This is a true freshman. 18 years old, 44 tackles, 12 and a half tackles for loss, and seven and a half sacks, which ranked tops among all the defensive linemen for Miami in that year as a freshman. Hard to do. We were 18 once.

When we were 18, we were looking at guys like Sean Barber, who was drafted by the Redskins at the time, commanders now. We were Mark Magna, who was drafted by the Jets, I think it was. And it was like, that's a, that's a man, I'm a boy, you know. So like, just for that perspective. But then he comes in in 2024. He suffered a soft tissue injury is what they're calling it in the opener versus Florida. Didn't come back to October 3rd against Cal came back and played, I thought, pretty well in that game, especially as a game went on. Started all nine games that he played last year, 23 tackles, obviously fewer games.

production wasn't quite as good, though. 23 tackles, 5 and a half tackles for loss, and 3 and a half sex. He missed four games, and when he came back, he's still, you know, maybe not 100%. Take it from here. What did you see on tape? And I'll counter with what I saw if it's any different. Well, I'll just pick up where you left off. I think I went back and watched the 2023 tape, and he looked,

I'll say he looked more explosive on the 2023 tape that he did in all of the 2024 tape. And with that being said, I'll still say that. I thought his tape last year was pretty damn good too, man. We got another guy who's got some explosive power. And there are guys that can shoot their arms and start walking offensive tackles back. And then there's another moment of truth, as you put it. Can you get off the block at the top of your rush? Once you get there, once you have him, can you get off?

Are you going to just going to be stuck and you're going to be a guy that keeps the quarterback in the pocket, but you're not going to be a guy that makes a lot of plays? And to me, he's a guy that can get off. He can get off blocks at the top of the rush. I think he really flashes great hands, especially when he kicks inside. He's got a little bit of that versatility where he can kick inside to rush the passer. Big dude, he can set the edge against the run.

He's tough against the run. He's also quick enough to slip some blocks and get into the backfield. I was excited. I was excited after watching last year's tape. And then I was like, man, if he can get back to that 20, 23, just that little bit more of juice that he had that year when he wasn't again when he was healthy the whole year watch out because he's he i'd not watch a lot of his tape he's a damn good player yeah i'm just jotting down a couple of or underlining a couple of my notes here to kind of carry on what you're saying and add some some balance to it power base pass rushers you said snap in his hands core power i thought he bends well

not elite, but Ben's well enough. One thing that stood out on, it's funny, he doesn't run, he's not like, he's not fast. He's not one of those guys are going to chase down from behind. He's not a four or five guy, not even a four, six guy. I think he's, you know, probably going to be a four, seven guy. But he's got, and a lot of the great pass rushers do, he's got this closing burst. If you get that quick take off and then you have the closing burst, like that short area, the last three yards to the bulk carrier versus.

the run to the quarterback and as a pass rusher. And he's got that. I thought he did a really good job like crossing over the face of offensive tackles. Got the power to prevent offensive lineman from getting in like really sustaining. They can get in there, but they're not going to like lock on. I rarely saw with Bain where it was like a stalemate, like the plays over. You know what I mean?

And so he was like always working and fighting through. I saw some like I like I see advancing the pass rush I just gave a whole lecture on on with Caleb Banks on advancing the pass rush when engaged this guy does a really good job of that there was a fourth quarter at 934 fourth quarter versus Cal this is what I wrote like good job crossing the face of the offensive tackle has the power to prevent the offensive line from sustaining blocks really nice job working through the block advancing the rush after initial engagement That was that play versus Cal. I think he's got,

I think he can continue to develop his plan sometimes and like his array of past rush moods and be like a little bit more sudden and like, you know, but I really like his rip and his slap move, like his two hands slap move. He does, he does some nice things, but there's,

there's, there's area for growth, right? Yeah. And as you said, good core strength versus the run, upper body power sets the, sets the,

sets the, disengages when locates. And I wrote this, and it was important because I put it in part of in caps. Really manhandles offensive linemen when he gets that initial leverage position. He really does. He's got some banks in him, too, though, where he left some sacks on the field, by the way. He's got to be a little bit better of rapid. Perfect transaction.

Here are my two howevers on him. He lacks sudden. and and like, like he's strong, all that. But like I, there's a little lack of like sudden violent movement sometimes, even though he's strong. He's got power. He's got snapping his hands. It's like, I don't know.

He's just missing like. And I'm talking for the elite, right? Right. He's a 275 pound power end. He's not a 255 pound, you know, speed rush guy. Right. And then the other part is less than. ideal redirect quickness and there was a play against cal 240 left third quarter was a great example he

gets in there works the offensive tackle he's there and then just needs to read because the quarterback is moving i think it was mendoza right uh it was moving and and he just like i saw there a handful of times a few too many where he wins the rep just about to get home and he winds up sliding out you know like that reaching, right? So that's where he can improve up this year. But I'm betting on his potential, man. I really am. And we talked about power and the importance as a pass rusher.

So I think Bain's another guy. Like, if I had to bet right now, later first. I'm good with that. Yeah, 89. 90s, I think I gave him 88. So yeah, that's where I got him. Yeah. Won't get out of round two unless there's something that we don't. No.

Not receivable, medical character, all that stuff. but won't get out of round two. I'm going to save the two linebackers, Anthony Hill Jr. from Texas and, and Deontay Lawson, Alabama. I like one more than the other at this point. I'll give you a little preview there. Gabe Accus.

I pronounced it Jackus earlier, and I'm the jackass for calling him Jackus. It's July. I will correct it, sometimes too late, but not this time. Thanks to Dan, I just, you know, in our group chat texted to double check, something I should have done before the show. Gabe Accus from Illinois, number 17, he's six foot three, 275 pounds. Again, not a speed merchant, 478, 40.

He's a three-year player, two-year starter at Illinois. During his three seasons, he's racked up 140 tackles, 22 tackles for loss, 16 sacks, four force fumbles, had his best season this past year. So he's escalating properly. 74 tackles last year, eight sacks, and three of those four forced fumbles were last year. I'll give you my little rant on him,

and I'll let you go. Speed is average, the height is average. He's really well put together. I think he plays all along the Illinois defensive line. At first, I'm like, wait, am I watching the right guy? Like, he's always a three technique early on. You know, I forget it was like the first game I was watching. Bain was like that against Georgia Tech where they played them inside a lot.

Yes. Depending on the matchup, they'll put, because again, we're talking about human beings that are in that 275, 280 pound range. You could do a lot of different things with them. So if you're going against a certain like zone scheme that's more athletic, you're going to take your big athletic guy and maybe kick him inside a little bit more. He's a versatile defensive lineman who's active, instinctive, and efficient in his movements, is what I said. He wins with unbelievably efficient hands.

And you don't really see that with college guys as much. And then combine that with impressive core strength, the ability to stand up offensive linemen initially before efficiently. Like he has had a plan. He stands them up and then he's working his hands with his feet, tying and marrying those two things together. which you don't always see. And he does that through engagement, as we talked about. Not an elite athlete. Just like Bain, leaves tackles, leaves sacks on the field.

And he's not a speed merchant. He's not a guy who's going to beat you, right? But with what God gave him, he does an awesome job. Plays all over the line can beat you with the flexibility, with the versatility, like crossing the offensive. tackle's face working through standing guys up and then having a plan to kind of counter it. But this guy's a grinder, man. He can wear multiple hats. And we talk about it all the time. He's got the core strength. He's got some flexibility. He's got efficiency in his movement.

He's, and he can wear a bunch of different hats. And so NFL teams that are looking for a difference maker that can help them be multiple along the defensive line and find me a team in the league that isn't looking for that. Accus is a guy that's going to draw a lot of interest. I'm not saying he's not a first and half of the first round guy. He's not a first. Maybe he doesn't go in the first round. But I think there's a chance if he could develop late first round range.

Worst case, I see him coming off the board in round two based off of what I saw on tape. And I can't emphasize enough how much I like his motor, his toughness and his versatility as a player. I will say this. I don't like him as much as you do. I gave him a third round grade, but I will say I can see him doing. I'll start with where I agree with you and the fact that I can see him going up.

High school state champion wrestler when you talk about those hands shows up on. Those hands show up on tape. Motor, outstanding. I am going to talk about his run defense right now. And when I talk about the run defense, I don't want for a second to say that I don't think he's tough or that he chases. Those are not the issues that I have when I talk about his run defense.

I feel like the instincts and I think the best way from you describe it, the comfort level that you see him have as a pass rusher when he's rushing the passer almost disappear in the run game. I think he's late to locate the ball. I think he's late to get off blocks. I think for a guy that big, he shouldn't give as much ground as he does. Again, not a toughness issue. It's more of a technique, more of a comfort level with him playing the run than it is than any kind of a deal with toughness.

I had some serious concerns about there was times I saw, I think, of the Northwestern game, maybe, where a tight end gave him a ride, took him for a ride, man. And I was like, you got to get those pads down. You got to play with a better base. There was some issues. I think he's a significantly better pass rusher than run. Yeah, I gave him a 1.5 pass rush 2.5 run. Right. Sounds like you can give him a lower. Frame, toughness, motor, all there.

If he cleans that up a little bit, continues to develop and flesh out as a pass rusher, absolutely in the mix. Where he is in the process right now, I have him more as a third round guy. And again, let's see what happens. He could move up. Can we get him my edge before we get into your linebackers?

Yeah, please. You dropped this on me, and I didn't watch his tape. So this is all you, brother. We're watching these edges and I'm like, and I had to look because he only has one year really of production. I want to make sure that he was eligible. And listen, I've been working on his name. I really hope I'm going to get it right. But it's the Oregon Edge, Mateo Ui on Gala, Gala.

And Oiangalai. He's DJ's brother, which I should know the name by the bro. Come on, dude. You know, we're on going to get Accus. So don't get on me about, you know, Uiangalala. You know what I mean? Like, listen, give a break.

I'm trying here. Who can't say that? We're on Gala. Listen, man, learn it. Listen. I want to talk about, if you look at where he was

as a freshman two years ago and where he was last year as a pass rusher, it is night and day. As a freshman he came in as this really talented, athletic, rangy kid.

You loved his tape and you're like, it's just not coming together yet. And then I'm seeing, I'm talking about hands, married, defeat. I mean, he had one rep, and I should, I don't know where I put the note, but it was, he kicked inside and he made an offensive guard look like he was standing still.

And it was because of how well his feet are married to his hands right now. Everything's fluid and effortless. And then he could close. And then you put him on the outside. He's got the length, the standing guys up. He's got the, he's got the quickness and the bend to win off with speed off the edge. I, if he made, he made such a significant. jump as a pass rusher from year one to year two. He's got to do the same now, I think, as a run

defender. And I'm not as concerned about his run defensive as I am, Acus. He's an okay run defender now. He can set the edge. He's just got to get a little bit stronger and get quicker at getting off blocks. He's just got to develop. He's got to be, go from that, you know, slightly above average run defender to, like, realizing how good he could be in that area and be elite there, too. I watch him and I really think he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, He's a sophomore. We'll see what he does. We'll see what happens with this year. I think he's a guy who's going to be in the mix to be the first defender off the board. I really think he's that talented.

Really? There is no doubt in my mind that he's going to be in that mix. I've got like my boating shirt or maybe Miami night clubbing shirt on. I'm ready to like go hang. After we take this. I'm going to make you go watch tape now. After we take this show down, we got like 15, 16 days. off. I'm like, I'm present with summer now, finally.

And now I'm going to go watch We Angola Laze tape. Who's a software, by the way. We'll see what happens. I love that. I love that. Then, and I mean, that's what this time of year is for. Two linebackers I want to get to, okay? We're already at almost an hour. We got things to do. Let's rip through them. But let's give them their love. I'm not trying to race through and cut anyone short here. Anthony Hill Jr. from Texas. Both linebackers wear zero, by the way.

And Deontay Lawson, Alabama. Coming in, I think I would have said I kind of like Lawson a little bit more than Hill. And I'm here to tell you there's not a massive difference between the two. And I do think Lawson with the ACL injury creates a little bit more of cloud of concern. And I'm hearing he's recovering like really well and not. just like bullshit sources like my sources like good sources good i'm glad because he's like on track and they might they might like limit him a little bit in camp and try to do all that stuff but they think he's going to be close to if not 100% by the start of the year which is awesome i mean modern

medicine right acel tear against oklahoma and november and he's going to be good to go so we'll see if that's the case and i i would actually argue maybe lawson is like slightly more gifted both high leadership guys, but Lawson's like green dot gold store guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you've heard like he's, he's one of those like top, top tier leader guys, okay? Mm-hmm. I kind of liked Hills tape more. Anthony Hill, 6.3, 235 pounds runs a 4-48, okay, is what the estimated time is.

I don't know if I quite saw that. That's moving, man. I didn't quite see that either. I think he could run. Yeah, I think he's fast. I think he's like a four, five, three, four, five, five guy, which is, which is great. Like, it's very, very good. But he's entering his third year in 2025, one and a half of your starter.

30 games he's played 22 starts at Texas. He's racked up numbers, bro. 180 tackles, 25 for loss, 13 sacks, three pass breakups, and five force fumbles. Last year alone, first year is a full-time starter. They had 16 games, mind you, but still 113 tackles, 16 and a half for loss, second on the team with eight sacks. He's got obviously great traits. Six-three, the length that off-ball linebackers become more and more important as the passing game is becoming more and more important because I can tell you firsthand there are a pain in the ass to throw around and to throw over with that length, okay? highly, I really liked his instincts, highly productive, obviously, and knows for the football

makes a lot of, like, makes a lot of big plays. And I, what I noticed about him is it's like, it's kind of not effortless, but like, some guys have fast eyes. They've been taught to read their keys. He, to me, what I saw is a guy that's like really used to it, really comfortable. It's easy for him. Locates the ball quickly. Not a lot of false steps.

Snups out, you know, screens and misdirections early, faster than any other guy on that Texas defense on a lot of plays. Not always, but a lot of plays. Really effective in the passing game. Good range, instincts, gets in positions that tip ball to himself against Louisiana Monroe was on my key play. Real look comfortable there. Can I tell you he has great, great ball.

and all that i i don't know just you know definitively she's had some other you know kind of moments but but i see a guy who's very capable in coverage and then you add the fact at six three two thirty five he can be effective as a pass rusher now that's his one's greatest strengths yeah like but but can he do it in the league i that's it's the same question i have and And there's the pro are you going to get into the pros and cons of this? Because I think there's a pro let me rip off to the two cons I had. And then you take it from here. Two knocks I've got on him right now.

And they both can be improved upon. And they're not as important necessarily as the strengths, which the passing game, the range and all those in the instincts. I thought his take on skills were average at best, but not, but not bad. Okay. And I say that because when he does get. engaged, like fully engaged, it's over. That's the case with most off the ball linebackers. When an offensive lineman climbs to the second level and they get their 320 on

year 235, it's human nature at that point. What he does really well is he takes that snapshot that we talked about brusky. I see that in him. He, like, he, he's got the instincts, the eyes. He sees where the ball carrier is going. Is he coming right, he coming left? now I'm going in for engagement, but I'm going to make this shit quick. It's got to be quick.

You know what I mean? And he does a good job with like that quick stun move and then like the quick hands. And so it keeps a lot of guys from getting to that final like, oh, I'm done moment. But when they do, it's over. The second thing is I think he's a low impact tackler. Interesting. I don't disagree with that. That's interesting.

Which isn't the biggest thing in the world. Yeah. And has five and has five force fumbles. You'd expect more of that on contact. He missed a lot of tackles last year, man. He missed a lot.

They played a lot of games. Like you said, you know, it's worth noting here. Falls off a bunch of tackles, right? Yeah. He's not, you're, I 100% agree with you.

I would say the one, the one beef that I have with you, I agree with the fact that he, first of always a taller inside landbacker. It makes sense that you have longer arms, right? and he uses that length to prevent guys from getting into him. So that's kind of what helps. And then again, the instincts beating guys to spot.

So it's harder for a guy to reach him. I agree with all that. One beef I would have with your coverage analysis, I think he's better in zone than he is matching him. Man, I think he can turn and run and compete with tight ends and reroute tight ends and do all that. But if you force him, this is one of the tackling issues, actually, you force him to make quick cuts,

a quick change of direction in space. He's taller guy. And sure enough, he's a little stiff. in space. He has a hard time redirecting like that. As far as a pass rush goes, here's what I'll say. I agree with you. If you're that's, if you're 235 pounds and, you know, Tristan Worf's

of the world get their hands on you, you're going to go for a ride. You're, you're not going to be able to power through that. You just, it's a lean, that is a lean body type for a guy coming off the edge. What I like about him is he does bend well, he is he is quick and he can win with speed. But then I see him

mix in some outside, inside moves with his hands and he's slipping guys the inside, he's not a one-trick pony. And I think that when you're looking at how you're going to use him as a pass rusher, he doesn't have to come off the edge. He has a really good feel as a late add-on. He has a really- Yes, yes, yes, yes.

When he comes up and letting almost that initial protection set, and then recognizing weaknesses and recognizing where he can exploit a gap, where he can close, where he can make a play. I feel like I'd be good at that. kind of like sneak up on your at you know i think you've ever been like i wouldn't be good at that is there anything yeah yeah if you reach if you reached me on the second level it would be for me my family my children i could i just want to i want to make sure that there's something that you think you might be flawed at shut up but anyways yeah he's he's really instinctive in

that sense too he's a ball player and so is the next guy we're going to talk about by the way i think they're both really good ball players like that's what you want from a line linebacker too, right? Like a good feel for the game. I'll be interested because I want to give some some context here. Off the ball linebackers. True off the ball linebackers. I'm not talking about Jalen Walker who's going to be used as both and maybe more pass rush, all that. I'm talking true off the ball linebackers. You know that we've only had one in the first round the last two years? Who was it? Jihad Campbell. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And four in the first round in the last four years. Wow. So you're averaging one a year. So history tells us, I mean, then again, you go back to, what's it, 2023 with Campbell from Iowa and there was another one that year.

Quay Walker. I think there's one more too. So like it can happen. And these guys, I think are capable of playing their way into both playing their way into first round. If I had to bet on it right now, I'd say it's more likely, more probable than not. That they both are first. Oh, that they would. Oh, I think they're day two, guys. But with that context, I don't, I don't quite know. I'm not here stamp in a first round right now. No.

Yeah. I feel better about an 88, 89 grade on Hill and an 87, 88 grade on loss. For me. That's fine by me. Right now, now let's see where we are in April. That's the beauty of doing this. We've got a foundation now and we'll grow. So Lawson, let me give you some backdrop on him.

And I'll let you do your evaluation and let's kind of rip through. I already told you about the ACL injury, already told you about the leadership and who he is as a person and the football character. He's a fourth year player in this coming up in this season, okay? Played mostly special teams in 11 games in 2023 before took over the starting Mike job, the middle linebacker job. No, that was in 2022, sorry. Mostly special teams in 2022. And before he took over that starting Mike job in 2023. Miss three games that year, this is not a good pattern due to injury.

And two this past year suffering the torn ACL against Oklahoma. So he's got 20 starts the past two seasons. And he's been productive, man, 140, 143 tackles, 12 for loss, five sacks, eight past breakups and one force fumble, but not as productive as Hill has been and not the, not quite the pass rush ability that Hill has. I would say this guy lost in his better in coverage personally, slightly better in coverage. And I think to your point, like better in man coverage, okay?

But that's the backdrop on it. So he's got a little shorter frame and just about 240 pounds where Hill's got a little bit longer frame and 235. So while it's 235 versus 239, it's a different package that's showing up on your doorstep, you know? Both, both projected in that four, high, four, low four, five, 40 yard dash range. Yeah. Give me what you got on Lawson. I, I remember early on of us starting to do this together. And I won't say years because why would we do that to ourselves? You talked about linebackers, I was this former offensive line and still learning all these other positions. And you told me, this guy doesn't guard grass.

And I remember to myself, I remember saying like, what do you, dude, what do you mean? Like, doesn't guard grass? What does that even mean? Well, there are guys who were like, I have hook curl. I'm going to drop the hook curl. I'm going to turn around. And I'm going to read the line of the quarterback. And I'm just going to stay here in my hook curl zone.

And guys, those are guys that guard grass. Lawson does not guard grass. He has an understanding of where he needs to be on the field. And then he has an understanding what kind of route combination. are coming at him, who he can attack. He's going to attack a receiver. He's not going to sit back, wait for you to make a completion and come up and make a play. He is not garden grass.

He's defending. He's getting him and make plays. And the one thing I will say, and I love him, I actually liked him more than Campbell at times last year. I'll be honest with you. I don't think he's going to run as well as Campbell. There are a couple things on tape where I saw. I was like, oh, man, I wish he was almost there and didn't quite get there. I think he's more of a mid-4-5 to a high four-five.

Campbell ran the four-fours. And he is a little bit lighter. But just everything, all the other things you look for in inside linebacker in terms of the instincts, how hard he plays. I think he does a good job of, again, he's a lighter guy, but he does a good job of playing off blocks, making it hard for guys to square up to him. He does pass break up. Sorry to interim. His past break up.

I jotted it down as two, a 454 second quarter. Which is like. Sorry, Georgia. Okay. And the tight copy, sometimes the tight copies behind the offensive line. Sometimes it's behind the defense. This one was like they were in Georgia's zone. So it was like the tight copy and they were fucking close, man.

You could see, I could almost see his eyeballs from the camera, the camera angle. And it felt like I was Carson Beck, you know, because I'm like, I'm staring him down. His read, like him is studying. of Beck and the jump he got, the fast read, and then the combination of that with that burst out of his, it wasn't even a pedal, it's kind of that like soft drop. You're right, right. Stalking like praying, like a praying, um, you know, bird like kind of like. Right. And they just batted it down. He couldn't get like it wasn't a, it wasn't a missed

interception opportunity, but like most guys don't get there. Right. The word I was searching for is matching up. He will match up with someone. He's not going to guard grass. He's going to find someone to match up. He's not going to get caught out of position either. There's a there's an art to it, man. It is not an easy thing to do. You can't get caught out, but you at the same time, don't make it easy for the

quarterback by like, I'm just going to let this all play out and then I'm going to go and make a tackle. He's not like that. He's aggressive. He will find someone to match up when the, when the routes have been declared. He's, I think he's really good in coverage. Not, and I agree with you. He's not the pass rusher that Hill is. He flashes a little bit in that area. He closes pretty well. He's going to chase with great effort. He's going to

fight like hell to get to the quarterback. He's just not quite as versatile as hill. I'll reiterate, like so much of this is predicated on full recovery, staying healthy, all those sorts of things. But it's going to be a fun race to watch those two linebackers as the season goes on this fall for two of the premier programs in college football and like the leadership and like the quarterbacks of the defense, all that stuff. So they're going to be fun to track. All right. We are blowing past the stoplight of we're already well over. We've got to go quick.

All right. Here are the names that we're going to do some quick. I called him tree toppers. Just like the tree top of who are these guys. I'm going to give you a bunch of names right now, okay? Domani Jackson, cornerback from Alabama. Edge, Keldrick Falk, Auburn. Cornerback, Jair Hill, Michigan, linebacker, C.J. Allen, Georgia.

Edge, L.T. Overton, Alabama. A.J. Harris, cornerback from. Penn State two safeties. Camari Ramsey from USC, the UCLA transfer, and Dylan Thineman from the Purdue transfer to Oregon, okay? Some other names, too, that you might hear as we come in and we're not going to touch on them today, but we touched on one of them and we touched on two of them a lot, actually three of them. Maybe fuck all four of them. Really, we touched on a lot during the season. But Davis and Big Nosen, the cornerback from Ohio State. And these are from talking to scouts in the league who's on their radar day two guys could be in the mix ascending

all that stuff avion turel cornerback from clemson who we talked about a lot slot cornerback like a lot of his traits but not sure he's a he's a lock number you know round one guy like some people and some other publications or whatever you want to call put out there sunny styles who's i love them but mensch loves sunny sunny styles and rightfully so and then um sun tureen perkins the line back. He's going to be an interesting. Oh, yeah. Really light track star off the edge. Kind of goes counter to all

the power base pass rushing stuff we're talking about, okay? Two other transfers really quickly. Patrick Peyton going from Florida State to LSU had a good, both these guys. Two years ago had great years. And then my sleeper, Texas State Edge, Ben Bell is at Virginia

Tech this year. Watch out, man. Miss Mosa last year. Ben Bell. Only played in four games last year. 16 tackles for loss two years ago. he's he's uh he's gonna be a mid round sleeper type guy that could do some things okay let's just let's rapid fire this thing give me a couple quick notes on on these players we'll go through the tree top guys that i just mentioned these are all guys that when i'm talking to nfl scouts and talking to different all-star games stuff like that these are guys that are considered kind of that tier two maybe day two

prospects okay and and could rise to round one start with you mensch cornerback damani jackson Alabama. Six foot one, 201. I think he's got the length. When you look at that big frame, he's got the length. This kid was the, he set the state record for the 100 meter in California, not like North Dakota, California when he played a matter day. This kid can run. I think he's going to run in the four threes. I think he's that fast. So you're looking at that height, that weight, that length, that speed. He's got a chance to be, he's got to clean some technique issues up, chance to be a really good press corner. And he's already got the physicality and toughness element of it as well. All right. Edge,

Keldrick Falk from Auburn. This dude is 6 foot 6, 288 pounds. Awfully attracted to N.AW.T. There are. I love it. He's still developing, but he's a talented underclassman. I think he could make a huge jump this year. We'll see what he does. He had nine sacks and 45 tackles a year ago. He's a second year starter, defensive end, 81 career tackles, 45 of them last year 11 tackles for loss and seven sacks the last couple of years so this is a big year for far all right next up jire hill next michigan corner is the next michigan db we'll see man you're betting on the traits his first year our guy denzel boston the washington wide receiver

put him in a blender a little bit now that he only started this is the first nine starts of his career and the traits are there and you're betting on on him developing but there were some growing pains this year and he's going to have to make a leap i will say what he's really good good at kind of will johnson here is that off coff off coverage reading the receiver and breaking on the ball there's a couple times who's jumping routes it looks a little bit like number two uh in that michigan he wears number 20 but he looked like a little bit like number two at times got to take a big leap but has only had nine starts and the traits are there could be a really good player all right next up cj allen another linebacker from georgia right it's like every year we get alabama linebackers we got

Georgia linebackers. Georgia, they don't necessarily always get the fastest guy, right? But they get guys who play fast. He's 6-1-235, and he is fast. 4-5-8 is what kind of estimated. I like his background. You ready? He's a Georgia kid. He played high school Lamar County in Barnesville. He played linebacker and had 84 tackles in the sack on defense in his last year in high school. also was a running back. He had 1628. I freaking love that, man. Because he has a feel for how a running back is going to attack the on his scrimmage.

I love that. And 26 touchdown. So, yeah, that note jumped out to me. He's a two-year player, one and a half year starter. So two years ago, he kind of jumped in and took over the starting reins. And they've got linebackers every year. So to win the job two years ago is pretty impressive. 28 games played, 17 starts.

This past year, he was second on the Georgia roster with 76 total stops. Excellent athlete with speed, as I mentioned. And I think in high school he ran what was clocked as like a four, six. So, and you only get a little, you know, it is pretty, talking to like Billy Tucker and Lugamill and those guys. It is just pretty wild, like how accurate the 40 times or how they translate. They typically get a little faster, but you get a range and you can kind of sniff out the guys who are really four sevens early.

I talked to him the other day. They're doing some AI on field speed stuff that he wants me to look at. It's going to be pretty interesting. That's awesome. And then 100 meter, he had 100 meter time of 1116, 11.18. Now, again, it's not the times that we've talked about for the wide receivers and the cornerbacks and stuff like that.

But it's of note for a, for a 235-pound linebacker. All right. Edge rusher, staying in the SEC. see L. T. Lebius, I guess, is his real, his birth name. L.T. Overton, the edge rusher, the edge. First of all, you see 6'5, 283 pounds, and you're thinking to yourself, this is another one of these, like, big, like, 3, 4 defensive end edge setters. And he is that. Do not get me wrong about that. He is 100% that. This dude is an elite run defender. And I love that about his game. He's also a Texas A&M transfer. who came over to Alabama last year. But this dude, at that size, is absolutely an edge. And I was blown away by his hands rushing the passer.

He led Alabama with nine quarterback Harriers last year. The reason that sack number is not high is because a lot of the other guys we talked about on this list, the bigger guys, he's got to be a little bit better about finishing. But man, he can get off blocks. He's got really active hands. He is smooth. He's not explosive.

He's not violent. But he's smooth changing directions for a guy that size. and then he's got that power that once he has the edge on you, when he's working that edge, he's going to power through and not get knocked off course. I don't remember liking a big Alabama edge as much as I like this guy. I always like him, but I'm always like,

ah, he's a middle-round guy that's going to come in and help someone's run defense. Do his role. Yeah. This dude could play, man, and he is 100% an outside guy. He could play outside in a base four-man front. Interesting.

All right. Next on our list, AJ Harris, cornerback from Penn State. he's a former five-star guy who went to Georgia and transferred. So we got some work to do there, like why? Was he not winning the job? Was he not competing enough? Were there issues?

They're willing to overlook a lot, and they've got a pretty big budget. So the why, and this is, we're in July. But former five-star recruit, 6-1, 184, got speed. stats weren't Goddy last year five pass breakups and one interception but he's got the respect of the coaches in the league you first are all big 10 honors right talking to some scouts

he ain't there yet don't be surprised if he gets there this year that's the best way I can kind of summarize sum up what the conversations are like keep an eye on him could maybe maybe it doesn't happen this year and he's a mid-round guy. But like if you're looking for someone who could go,

this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

this, A.J. Harris guy from Penn State could be him. All right. The two safeties we're going to rip through. Kamari Harris, or sorry, Kamari Ramsey. That was A.J. Harris, a corner from Penn State. Safety Kamari Ramsey from USC.

Ramsey is the UCLA guy who transferred to USC last year. I was, I was pleasantly surprised by him in coverage. I think a big point. Part of it is instincts. I think he also has the long arms. He does a good job of reading the quarterback and reading receivers of breaking on the ball and off coverage.

I think he's competitive with tight ends. You're using that robber role where you play him underneath. He'll step in front of receivers. He's not a ball hawk. He's not a center fielder. I think he has enough range and instincts to play cover a deep half, but he's never going to be that free safety center fielder. In terms of the run defense, he's willing most of the time to get mixed up in there.

He's got to be a better job of getting. getting off blocks and he's got to do a better job of wrapping up. So some stuff to clean up at the run game, but I think he's got the toughest in the frame to get there. All right. All right. Dylan Thinaman, I hope I'm saying his name right. Dan will get me an answer soon. Dude, this guy's numbers are insane.

And not just, not just the stats, bud. I popped in a little, I newsreled them real quickly for these purposes. I haven't done a full report. I'm not going to, I'm not ready to stamp them with anything. But it's fun, right? Six foot 207. You know, he clocked in high school, apparently, or coming at like for Huddl, or whatever, a 436. How many safeties you know that return punts?

Return punts, 67 yards on nine punts last year, led all big, first two years of Purdue, just transferred. So this is going to be his first year at Oregon. So let's go back to 2023 as a freshman. led the team with 106 tackles, including four double-digit tackling games as a freshman. He was a five-time Big Ten freshman of the week, becoming the first defender in conference history to win any weekly award five times in the single season, ranked third nationally with six interceptions, led all freshmen in the country with 74 solo tackles. That's at all positions, linebacker included.

then 2024 he's going to drop off they'll get a scouting report on him maybe this the scheme he let all big 10 defensive backs with 104 tackles last year with that 4-3-6 speed started all 12 games from Purdue last year broke up seven passes had a sack handled punt returns I'm excited to see him in Oregon man really excited to see him in Oregon all right that's awesome and then We gave you some other names as well. Yeah, this has been fun. Let's get out of here before we screw it up. I mean, honestly, I think we did pretty well time-wise.

I mean, for us, I think, you know, it's pretty good for us. Yeah, and we promoted Screen the Screener. Yeah. We gave some much-do-love decline. And we went through like 20 guys, basically, in the defensive side. So this will hold up through August heading into the NFL draft. We did the work on this. I feel good about it.

And we're going to be back early August. We start ramping it up towards college football, get into some rookie stuff training camp appropriately early. I mean, now we know, now we can feel good about a mock draft match. This is why we do it in the offseason. Maybe talk about some tackles. I don't know, maybe. Maybe mix that in a little bit.

No, that sounds like a December job. All right. We appreciate you. If you didn't do it, would you please Google the McShay report and subscribe? We've got to grow the, thing as we get closer to the season and make sure you subscribe, like all the stuff. Spread the word as we get into August.

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