The McShay Show - Joel Klatt on Ohio State–Penn State and Colorado’s Deion Sanders Success Story. Plus, McShay’s First College Football Playoff Ranking.

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

A week ahead of the first College Football Playoff ranking, Todd gives his take on how the top 12 should play out. Then, he and Steve Muench discuss the battle between Garrett Nussmeier, Quinn Ewers, and Jalen Milroe for QB3 in the 2025 NFL draft. After the break, they’re joined by lead Fox analyst Joel Klatt to talk Ohio State’s offensive line concerns, James Franklin’s big test, and where Buckeyes star Jeremiah Smith ranks in the history of freshman receivers. To cap the conversation, Joel shares his thoughts on the Deion Sanders era at Colorado. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:20) Todd’s College Football Playoff Rankings (3:35) Tier 1: (1) Oregon, (2) Georgia (4:15) Tier 2: (3) Miami, (4) Penn State, (5) Texas, (6) Texas A&M, (7) Ohio State (15:40) Tier 3: (8) Tennessee, (9) BYU, (10) Iowa State, (11) Notre Dame, (12) Indiana (22:15) Evaluating the Big 10 Conference (25:10) Projecting NFL Draft Prospects (32:20) 2025 NFL Draft: Which QB Prospects are Ready? (36:50) Is Garrett Nussmeier Ready for the NFL? (47:05) Is Quinn Ewers Ready for the NFL? (48:30) Is Jalen Milroe Ready for the NFL? (55:25) Joel Klatt Joins the Show! (55:50) Week 10 Matchup: Ohio State [-3.5] at Penn State (O/U 46.5) (58:00) Ohio State HC Ryan Day: 62-9 Overall Coaching Record (1:03:00) Worried About Ohio State's Offensive Line? (1:09:35) Evaluating Jeremiah Smith: 35  Receptions, 623 Yards, 8 TDs (1:12:40) Evaluating Will Howard OSU QB: 1,795 Yards, 17 TDs, 4 INTs (1:16:30) Who are the Top Prospects in Ohio State vs. Penn State? (1:27:00) Most Important Positional Matchup: Ohio State [-3.5] at Penn State (1:29:30) Takeaways from Coach Prime and Colorado's Future (1:35:00) Shedeur Sanders' Draft Process Expectations (1:40:35) Checkout The Joel Klatt Show The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Joel Klatt and Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the McShay show. Appreciate you all being here. On Tap today, we've got Fox lead college football analyst Joel Klatt here to preview his game and the biggest game in the college football slate. It's Ohio State at Penn State. We might get into Shador Sanders and the NFL draft prospects as well. Beyond that, Mention and I are going to go through my top 12 in the college football rankings this week. He'll dissect it. I'll defend it. And finally, the quarterback position. Who's QB3? Forget about QB1. Who's QB3 in this year's NFL draft class? It's week 10 in college football, week nine in the NFL, and Mentsch just 179 days away from the 2025 NFL draft. Mentsch you good? I'm good, man. All right, play that beat. Let's go.

I don't ever want to be the show that sits around and goes through. These are my top 12. Let's go through each team and look at who they're playing. Let's just not beat that, okay? But what I do want to do, we've got the playoff release coming up next week, the rankings, the first rankings, right? And I want to go first of all through some of the dynamic, like, what's coming up? You've got the first official top 12 release on Tuesday, November 5th. That's coming up to 7 p.m. Eastern Time. This is the first year, remember that there's a 12

team playoff, and that since system replaced, you know, the BCS going back to 2014, the five highest ranked conference champions, and the next seven highest ranked teams will be in the play. playoff. So that's the dynamic. That's how it's going to flow. That's how it's going to work. And then let me read this up. The four highest ranked conference champions will be seated one, two, three, and four, and will receive buys in the first round. Okay. You follow me here? Yep. Good. The remaining 18s, I could tell by the look on your face, the remaining 18s, including the fifth conference champion, will be seated five through 12 based on their final rankings. Okay. If the fifth conference champion,

is not ranked among the top 12 teams, it will be seeded number 12. So with all of that stuff aside, I think we get the picture, right? Right. Let's go through this. And again, I don't want to sit here and rank all the top 12 teams. For me personally, I've always looked at it like, how do you rank these teams? There's so much data out there. There's all these different, you know, the committee has all the things that they go through.

I've always looked at it, not to boil it down just to two things, but a heavy emphasis on these two things. the first is strength of record you know there's strength of schedule there's all these different components and data points you can look at but strength of record tells me without having to go and click through every single team their schedule and who those teams have played like that does it for you so to this point who who's played the strongest you know competition who's been able to handle that competition on what level and all that's thing and then combine that with the talent level right what's the talent level of the team and I I think I'm not saying that we're the foremost authority and who has the most talent.

But I think, you know, I put us up against a lot of people. We watch a lot of tape and we understand these rosters for the most part. So with that is the backdrop. And it was a big backdrop. And I apologize. I want to tier this thing. One and two for me, Oregon, Georgia. Okay.

Oregon's fourth strength of record, Georgia first strength of record, two of the premier teams in terms of talent, what we've seen on the field. I don't think anyone's going to disagree with that. So maybe you'd have Georgia one, but, but. No, exactly. Yeah. So Oregon, Georgia, we're going to put as, it's the top tier right now. What's interesting to me now is there's a second tier, okay? And I'm going to list up the teams I have in this tier.

I'm sure we'll have a graphic that goes up to support it and all that. But I'm going to list off these teams and we can just discuss where they belong from three through seven. Okay. Okay. I've got Miami at three. Penn State at four, Texas at five, A&M moving all the way up to six, and then Ohio State at seven. Now, the first thing that obviously jumps out to me about this is that at Penn State at four, Ohio State at seven, we're going to get some answers this Saturday, right? Right.

So with Miami, Penn State, Texas, Texas A&M, and Ohio State as my rankings, what jumps out to you, Mitch? I am worried about my recency bias. And it just feels like after that Saturday night game, are you too low on A&M? And when you look at their one loss, season opener against a Notre Dame team, I bumped them up to six, man. I know.

I know, but I'm looking at it from a big picture. You start looking at these other teams. Miami, you look at Miami, and I'm not sure not only who they've beaten, a good Louisville team, close game, they did Cal by one point. They're a replay that replay away from losing to Virginia Tech. I mean, do you remember that game to catch late?

Of course. I mean, that, exactly. If that doesn't go their way, they've got a loss against Virginia Tech. I like Miami. I like their backfield. They got some talents and receivers. They got Cam Ward. They got some guys to get after the quarterback.

I look at their schedule and some of their wins. And I wonder if three is not a little too high for them. I can live with that. I struggle with that. I mean, the strength of record is two. but it doesn't take into account how close they were to losing two games, really. Right. So I can live with that.

I think that's debatable. But I do like this tier. I'm going to get with a tier. Because after this tier, and we'll kind of get into a more, but we're talking about Tennessee, BYU, Iowa State, Notre Dame, India. Like to me, there's a clear Tennessee is the one, and we can argue, does Tennessee belong in this tier? The Arkansas loss, the Arkansas loss makes it tough to put them in there.

And they'll have the opportunity. I mean, all they got to do is win at Georgia and take care of the rest of the time. That's all. That's all you're going to do. And they'll shut everybody up and have the opportunity to be in the playoff. But you do love the talent on that team. And we've talked about the team of fair amount. Quarterback is inconsistent, but Uber talented. And you look at the way they run the ball, their defensive depth up front.

I mean, I think eight's fair. I don't think it's too high or too low. I think that's right where they should be. Yeah, I think it's fair too. The nice part about all this is with Penn State at four and Ohio State 7, we're going to get some answers, as I said, this Saturday. Texas and Texas A&M, there's a lot of ball to be played between now and, what is it, November 30th, I want to say, when they face off.

I also, don't be shocked, Mensch, if we see this as back-to-back. if we see them in this game the rivalry you know texas texas a name renewed and then and then a week later in Atlanta right i mean i would love that i mean what more could you ask for i mean i love that georgia gets knocked off and has a second loss a and m wins out to that point Texas wins out to that point close game you know there's a chance there's a i'm not saying it's probable but there's a chance we can see a rematch. But regardless, at least we see those two teams, two of the top three SEC teams in this top seven that we're talking about,

we'll wind up going up against one another. Yeah, I would love that. I mean, I think that's what's great about the conference realignments is you can get these massive rematches between these powerhouses. So, I mean, to me, that would be great. A&M's fascinating to me, too, because we talked about it a lot on the Saturday night show. And I brought up with you and Rosillo.

Marcel Reed phenomenal, right? He comes into the game, seven points scored in three and a half or two and a half quarters and comes in and they score five touchdowns. He scored three touchdowns in his first like 12 plays I think it was, 12, 13 plays.

And so, and like talk about maybe the greatest like quarterback insertion since Nick Sabin, you know, with the Tuatunga right? I mean, Jalen Hurts. So it was a first. phenomenal move at the right time and it worked brilliantly for Elko. But now you spin it forward. Are they going to heal he was only two of two passing.

And we've seen him in other games. Like there's there's ability there, but how much do they trust him in the passing game? How balanced are they going to be in the passing game? Does he just take off? Maybe maybe he takes off and he's the next young star in college football. So like, I. A and M for a long.

Yeah. and him for a long time was just so much bluster right great recruiting classes jimbo fisher fast talking just didn't trust the program didn't trust them in big moments now i just look at them differently don't you yeah this is a damn good football team like coached they're coached well they're more discipline they've got all those five stars some of them took off and once other places and you know what they probably weeded out some guys that they didn't want there right I mean, that's the defensive front. Watching that defensive front the other day.

Nick Scorton has been, I mean, I know Abdul Carter's your guy, and I'm not, I'm not planting any flag today. Right. But Nick Scorton is, if not the best, but is up there in the top two or three. Has to. Edge, edge defenders in the 2025 class. So I don't know. I just, all of a sudden, I'm just, I'm so intrigued.

I'm just being honest. I always looked at A&M like, yeah, is there a better game on? Is there a better game on? I just kind of know what I'm going to get. Something's going to go wrong. Lack of discipline, not playing up to the level, frustrating to watch, all that stuff. And it's not the case anymore.

So this is going to be a fun final month of the season with A&M in the mix, Texas in the mix, Georgia in the mix, Tennessee's still in the mix. And there's still of other really good teams. LSU is a really good team. They're not going to win the SEC. there's still a really good football team.

You could cause some problems. Ole Miss, still a really good team could cause some problems. Dangerous. Yeah, dangerous. We knew the SEC was going to be phenomenal, and it is. And in many respects, you could look at it and say, well, a little bit disappointing and Ole Miss hasn't played to the level. But it's still, like, there's a lot of ball.

Like, it's that for the SEC, the biggest takeaway for me is, like, there's a lot of ball left. Right. There really is. And I circle that the two games. I circle Texas Texas A&M on the 30th I don't have the date right now but the Tennessee at Georgia is um it is going to be fascinating I and I just looking at this week I Georgia Florida obviously the rivalry Georgia's a 16 and a half point favorites right Texas you know Texas um seven and one only they're only lost um they've got they're idle this week

they've got the buy I know right you're gonna that yeah so seven and one only lost to Georgia They get a, and you know what? Let's just get to it for a minute. And we'll get to quarterbacks later. I think this team desperately needs the buy. It's timed perfectly. Oh, 100%. I mean, look, Vanderbilt's played.

Vanderbilt's not your grandfather's Vanderbilt, right? They're a better team that they have historically been. But you lose to Georgia in a tough fashion, and then you go to Vanderbilt and you eke one out. I think it's time to, you know, and then you got Florida coming up who's not, again, that's another team that's a different team. and the team that lost to Miami in the Oakland, Florida's kind of got their feet under them.

They're a lot more competitive now. It's going to be, it's great for them to get that week off, get a little healthier, kind of, you know, just settle in a little bit there. Well, I studied the tape. We'll get to it when we get to the quarterbacks. I studied the tape. Vanderbilt was a let's get through this healthy exercise for Steve Sark here. Right.

I don't have to talk to Sark this week to know exactly. exactly what was going on. I watched a tape, because I watched a game, but I was watching three other games. But I watched a tape last night. And it's like, ah, okay, I see. I see what's going on. You know, the Georgia loss, your quarterback is not 100%. Let's protect this guy. Let's get out of here. Right. Short throws, bubble screens. I went 15, I think 15 plays into the, it was a first throw beyond five yards. down the field. Let's run the football. We're going to scheme them up. We're not here. We're not just throwing our helmets on the field.

We're going to scheme him up, but we're going to try to gain his confidence a little bit, right? Quinn Ewers has been up and down since that injury, the oblique injury. Let's get some confidence going, some efficient reads, get the ball out quickly. And let's let's let the other athletes try to do what they can do so that we can get out of here with the win. Did you, what do you think about the two picks or you want to get into that later on? Yeah, we can, I mean, you know, the first one was on the, the RPO, a little bit lazy from Quinn. Defender did a great job last second popping his arm up. Right.

Second one was another tip pass, right? I'm blanking right now. I saw it last night, but it was another ball batting in the air, right? Okay. Not horrible. He could, he could have avoided them, not horrible, though. It's one of those things when I was watching him because I watched that game. I haven't watched the tape, but I watched the game.

And I thought the numbers were better than what I was seeing. Oh, totally. You know what I mean? Dude, his first eight or nine throws were behind the line of scrimbages. Or like there was one, his first touchdown was a quick out. You know, it was like three. I didn't come out of that from the other hash. So it was a longer throw, but it was still, it was a quick game.

I didn't come out of the game and say, oh, he's back. Oh, this is the guy we thought we were going to see. I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't, I didn't think the wheels are coming. off or anything like that. But I very much saw a head coach who also is the offensive play caller. Right. Let's get out of here alive and let's get back to that by week. We need we need some we need to get some things squared away. We need our quarterback to be right for this final stretch. So I'm fascinated to see Texas coming off the buy. What is what does the product

look like? Is it is a lot more like what we saw early in the season? Yeah. And then until the Texas A&M game, they're in good position. If they can get by Florida, who I think they should get by. I think, you know, they should win that game. They go at Arkansas, Kentucky at home, and then the big game. The at Texas A&M will give us a lot of answers in terms of what this team's really going to be at the end of the year. Can I, can I get into a couple of the guys you left out, a couple of the teams you left

out of the top 12? Please do. Did you consider? Well, I haven't even. I mean, you want to finish up? Go ahead. Get into your other teams. I mean, if the audience is going to try to.

Most people who I think are listening, or listening, not watching or whatever the numbers are. But Tennessee, we mentioned at 8. BYU at 9, this is the third tier, BYU at 9, Iowa State at 10, Notre Dame at 11 and Indiana at 12. So where's your bitch? I don't, the only one, I don't really have a bitch.

BYU, I think the Kansas State game, I think that they're a solid nine. They're a team that coming into the year, you just didn't see being this good. I watched a little bit of their defense the other day. They have a couple guys on their front that have a chance to get drafted. They're a solid nine. I don't mind that one.

Iowa State. There are BYU is tricky. I mean, they beat a good SMU 7 and 1. Right. That's a good SMU team. They've got a couple of wins that just. Right. Smoked Kansas State.

They didn't just be smoked. And Kansas State is 7 and 1. So that's two teams that you've beaten, handily and they deserve to be in there. And, and they have not lost another game. Right. Handled UCF. I mean, UCF is falling apart, but they were underdogs. They were two underdogs going into that game. And now that the rest of their games are winnable. Like, I didn't know a damn thing outside of a couple of draft prospects, a damn thing

about BYU coming in this year. Right. And I'm looking at their schedule, bud, Utah, Kansas, Arizona State. I wrote Kansas twice. I'm an idiot. I mean, this is why you don't do. Whatever their fourth game is. But I wrote down all four of them are winnable. Houston.

Utah, Kansas, Arizona State, Houston. Distracted Monday night and background in the World Series. So, yeah. I don't know. I think they're a fascinating game. Probably because of Indiana and some of the other big time storylines. I think BYU is kind of getting overlooked this year. Iowa State, both in the Big 12.

I agree. And I don't necessarily, when I was asking you about the two teams that you didn't aren't in there, I'm not sure that I would have gotten them in either. I just think it's worth the conversation. You know what I mean? Iowa State's the one team that I think has some talent. I love the two receivers, Higgins and Noel. Yeah, good players. NFL players.

Right. Higgins is a bigger kind of vertical threat, makes contested catches. Noel is the smaller slot kind of built like a running back. I want to watch more of him, but what I've seen so far, he's got some real juice, man. He is explosive. And he made a catch in the North Dakota game that if they're not playing North Dakota, might be the catch of the year. He was between two defenders.

He's only 5-11, but he's coming down with a ball. He had no business catching. So they got some talent. I just don't, I'm not sure I would have them that high based on their record. I think their biggest win is against. They beat Iowa at Iowa by a point. Yep. So I think there's maybe an argument. Yeah, maybe there are just an argument to having him in there.

Yeah, I wrote down my nose like best wins. Iowa and UCF question mark, question mark. Right. Three points. And the good news is they play Kansas State at the end of the year. They've got Texas Tech, Kansas, Cincinnati, Utah. I'm not saying they're going to win all of them, but they're all games that I believe they'll be favored in. And then Kansas State at the end. So that will weed itself out. What's interesting is the BYU component because they've already beaten Kansas State. They don't play Colorado. You know, and Colorado doesn't play Iowa State or BYU. So it's kind of an interesting. And I haven't, this is the first time I've really like taken a deep dive into the big 12.

And it's only important quite honest. Like I said on Riscilla the other day. Like Tennessee, how deep do you go in the SEC before you say, I don't know if they would win the big 12? Right. I went deep, man. I mean, obviously, I had Georgia. I had Texas, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Ole Miss.

There was one other team that I had. And honestly, I don't know if South Carolina might win it. Yeah. So I think you can even, I mean, you talk about the big 12. I'm just going to be upfront about one of the teams I was going to bring up is Clemson. And I don't think they should be in the top 12. Not right now, but I think when we get there, if they keep playing like they're playing,

I think Clemson will absolutely be in the college football playoffs. I'm not, I shouldn't say absolutely. But they have the team to belong in the college football playoff. Right. You know, Miami, we'll see how that plays out. So yeah, that was the other team. Yeah. I feel like you're sleeping on Boise State.

Well, am I though? It's tough, right? That UNLV team's good, man. But you got to remember, we started the segment off. because I'm terrible with logistics and all the rules and just not a rules guy. You've never been a rules guy. No, it's just not my thing. But I read all that stuff so people could follow along.

But we are talking about, you know, the number one, not, you know, not power four team is going to get in. Yeah, I mean, they went to Oregon and lost by three. I mean, that's, I know that's earlier in the year, and that's when we're all kind of, we're all kind of worried about Oregon, remember? Yes. And, you know, is this going to be the team that we thought they were going to be coming into the year?

And I think a big reason for that was Boise State gave them everything they wanted, everything they could take them more. So when you're looking at that, I don't know, I just think that I get it because the week to week, it's not the grind that you're going to get in the SEC or the Big Ten. But that being said, pretty good team and and no one has more sacks this year than Boise State 35 sacks in seven games all right i'm just reading this again because again this is not not my jam i don't always get

the details right when it comes to little things like this the remaining eight teams is how it reads and after the top four seats the remaining eight teams including the fifth conference champion will be seated five through 12 based on their final ranking if the fifth conference champion which we're talking right now, potentially Boise State, is not ranked among the top 12 teams. So if it comes in, it's ranked 14th or 15th, it bumps up and becomes the 12th seed in the playoff. There we go. All right.

Last thing on this, Big 10, fascinating to me. You got Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, not the factor we expected to be. Oregon. When I look at Oregon, like, I don't see a way in the world that they're not in. You know, they've got the wins. Boise State all of a sudden, that's a good win. Ohio State at home, best win of the year. You could put it up there with, you know, I'm not calling it.

Rissillo said Texas, Georgia, I tend to agree. But one of the best wins we've seen in college football this year. Illinois just destroyed a ranked Illinois team. That's a good team, not a great team, but a good team. Now they're at Michigan. It's the hardest remaining game. At Michigan coming up. And then Maryland at Wisconsin and Washington.

So Oregon is sitting pretty. Penn State, Ohio State. We talked about them. But beyond this game, you know, it's they can all, you know, both teams, I think, have a chance to finish the season undefeated beyond this game. I really do. And then Indiana, they're the intriguing one. 10th strength of record played an unbelievable brand of efficient football on both sides of the ball.

Look at their record. at Michigan State this week, then they get Michigan at home, but then it's Ohio State. Right. I don't know that a one-loss Indiana is getting in. I'm not saying they won't, but I'm not convinced that a one-loss Indiana is getting in. And so can they pull off a massive upset at Ohio State? So I just think the Big Ten is going to be fascinating. I love the Indiana storyline.

It's just great with Signetti going in there and what he's done. And, you know, we'll see. what happens, but does it, does it matter to you that they've handled everyone, that a Nebraska team that gave, you know, hung tough in Ohio State? They won by 49. I mean, they are, they are, I don't even know what their closest game is. It might be 14 points. Their closest game so far has been 14 points. And again, I agree with you. We don't know enough yet, right? I think it's good that they're at 12. And that's great for Indiana to be at 12 right now, that we don't know anything about them until the Ohio State game.

And I think maybe the Michigan game too. But if I'm an Indiana fan, this has got to be the weirdest feeling ever. You're actually feeling good about Michigan coming into your place and being able to compete with that team. Yeah. That's a strange, it's got to be a strange feeling for those fans.

But I think the Ohio State game is everything for that Indiana team. All right. It was a good breakdown. We're not always going to do this. But I thought, you know, coming up next week with the, with the playoff, you know, the rankings reveal the first, the first official one, it was time to kind of take a look at it.

Obviously, like so much ball left to play. But I feel like we're finally starting to see a little bit of the picture. The picture a little clearer. Let's put it that way. Let's transition. The beauty of the show, Mench, is that when we get hot on something and something's bothering one of us, something doesn't feel right, something's annoying. We can just instantly react.

I don't have to call a producer. We don't have to set up a segment in the show. Like, we can just go. I want to discuss the quarterback position right now, okay? And I know we already did it last week, but I have a very different approach to this one today, okay? You ever watch the show Newsroom? Yeah, I love Newsroom. Aaron Sorkin.

Great show. I know his weaknesses. And there's some parts of shows. I get it. And I know there's a whole, you know, chat room out there, getting ready to pounce on this. I kind of like it. I did not see Newsroom coming up today, though. I know. I kind of like Aaron Sorkin.

It shows. I'm a sucker for them. Like, you know, West Wing, Newsroom. Sports Night, okay? The whole premise of Newsroom, the whole premise was, let's not worry about being the first to report the news. Let's get the news right. Right. I want that to be our show.

Okay. Truly. Yeah, not even who reported it first, but not to let any kind of sponsors or no outside influence about what their stories were. was kind of the deal. Yeah, for news, room,

which I love to, yeah, for us, like, it's always, it's been the mission since day one, 20,

25 years we've been doing this together since day one. Like, I'm not here for the, you know, draft Twitter, draft X, he's my,

he's my QB1. He's like, I watch people, I have watched people all season long, crawling over one another. Like, you know, bodies,

like, shrapnel. Even Thrones, yeah. Whoa, whoa, me, me, me, he's my QB1. I told you. I had him a month. Like, I'm not, we're not here for that, okay?

We're not here for that. Carson Beck coming in the year, everyone's QB1. Quinn Ewers has a great game against Michigan. He's my QB1. Jalen Milro, great first half against Georgia. My QB1. Garrett Nussmeyer, great first half against LSU. Oh, I've had him QB1 for a month. He's my guy. No one. why are we in a rush to get to be first to announce that he's my guy? I get it. Like we have fun. That's my guy.

Like I get it. We have fun with that. And it's a game that all scouts play. And it goes on in personnel rooms. But when it comes to evaluating the quarterback position, like this is a marathon, man. And I'm far more interested in studying the tape and really evaluating what I'm seeing. And then later in the process. I'll tell you my process. I talk I talked to scouts and GMs early in the year,

preseason and early in the year to get a feel like what's the can like what are you guys thinking? What have I not seen? Where are players I should look at? And then I'd like to go quiet this time of year because there's only one thing that matters if we're trying to do this job the right way. It's what these eyes and those eyes are seeing on tape. Okay. Right. And then we get past the season and then it's about character, the background, the work ethic, talking and other scouts. What tape did you see? Did I miss something? We'll get to all that. But we don't need to plant a flag right now. I'm much more concerned about, hey, is it the right time for Garrett and Lesmeyer to leave early for the NFL? Like, in college, I never had to make a

resume. I'm one of the few people. I've never have a completed resume. I still have this day, I've never completed a resume. But what I did do, Mench, I got an opportunity to work an internship, unpaid, sleazebag motel in Arizona, spent two months with Gary Horton, learning how to scout, right? Things went well enough. He was a former NFL scout, starting a company called the War Room. Things went well enough where he said, all right, go back to Richmond. I had injured my back. I was done playing.

I was helping out as a undergraduate assistant and doing all sorts of odd jobs that sucked. but I was getting a little bit of money towards school. And I was staying involved in the game. And I was learning from coaches. Getting experience, right. Getting experience watching tape. And then I was also at night. I took the university apartments while everyone's playing beer pong.

I remember this. I got a closet set up. And I'm watching. Under the stairs like Harry Potter. Under the stairs. Exactly. Yeah. So my point in all this is when I went and took that job in Midtown Manhattan for $12,000

my first year. Unreal. And I went up to the 27th floor, the scary office with the marquee group that represented Michael Jordan and all these great stars. I was definitely intimidated by the beautiful offices overlooking Central Park. I was intimidated by the fact that David Falk was there who represented Michael Jordan.

But when I sat down in that office with Gary Horton and Jim Nagy, who's going to join us on Thursday, is now the executive director of the Senior Bowl. and went on beyond what we did together, went on to scout with the Patriots and Seahawks and Kansas City Chiefs. When I went into that room the first day, I was prepared.

The content, what I was doing, I was prepared for. So I look at it that way. I don't care about the grades. I don't care about the resume. I'm not trying to hire an Ivy League guy with who got a 3.8 GPA. I want to know if I'm going to hire someone,

is this dude ready to, come in and contribute to our organization. And for a quarterback, that's all that matters. I've changed my whole, my whole, you know, over time. It's not about, oh, he's the, he's the fifth best player in the draft. It's not about where you get drafted. It's about is he ready? And I just want you to look like the last, go no further than last year, right?

Right. Eden Daniels, two different stops. I forget the exact number. Was it 52, 56 games played? experience. Coming into last year, Jaden Daniels was a third round, fourth round prospect. Talk to any NFL. Let's go. Coming out of Arizona State, you had, there's no way you could have projected that. But there's no way to kind of speak to your point. There's no way he reaches what the level that he gets to at LSU if he doesn't go through everything that he went through at Arizona

State. And Caleb Williams had to play a different brand of football, didn't have an offensive line was running around, you know, Sandlot football, all that stuff, but he was through some wars. Right. That dude went through some wars and had to carry a team. And so, yeah, he comes in and struggling early on, and there's going to be some ups and downs, but you can tell that dude is battle tested.

Right. And Jade and Daniels battle tested. The guy, like, C.J. Stroud, I know it was only two season, played a lot of big games. Right. Pressure was on. Talk to, you know, going to talk to Joel Clout, like Ryan Day, the pressure you, when you play in Columbus, pressure's on.

So let's spin this all forward to what we're looking at this year. Okay. I think everyone would agree right now. I don't care about everyone. You and I agree. Whether it's Shador Sanders 1, Cam Ward 2, or vice versa. Those two guys, to me, are the most prepared to step into the NFL and contribute to that organization like I was talking about.

Right. Right? Yeah. I think that's completely fair. I mean, you look at what Sanders has gone through. And first of all, coming from the smaller school, the expectations were we'll see how this goes. Coming from Jackson State, this is a big leap.

And what was incredible about him last year, and you look at all the numbers and everything, what was incredible to me was he actually got better. He was better at Colorado his first year than he was at Jackson State his last year, more consistent. at Jackson State, he was already a very accurate short intermediate passer. I thought his deep ball and I thought his processing improved in his first year at Colorado.

And now you're seeing him even elevated to another level. So to me, you know, Cam Ward is right there. But I do think Shador is, he's got to be the odds on favor to be quarterback one based on what we've seen so far. So, so with that aside. And I'm not here for the discussion about who's QB3 necessary. Fair, right. I'm here for the discussion and which young man is ready to actually make. make the step into the NFL and contribute and is ready.

And when he steps into that office on the 27th floor in Midtown Manhattan, is he ready? Is he overwhelmed by what he's about to sit down and do? Or is, I've been here. I did the internship in Arizona. I've worked under a staircase while everyone's outside partying until four in the morning trying to get to deadlines for the sporting news back in the day. Like that I can only draw on my own experiences.

And so when I went back and I specifically spent last night watching the three quarterbacks that I think most likely if the draft were today and they all came into the draft would be vying for that QB3 spot, if you will, right? Right. Behind Shador Sanders, behind Cam Ward. That's Garrett and Usmeyer from LSU in no particular order, Jalen Milro, Alabama and Quinn Ewers from Texas. And I know people are going to screw. What about Carson Beck? I would put him behind those. guys right now okay here's the question i have and i'll get into exactly what i saw on the tape

with youers coming back is not an option but getting rest of the bye week is is an option and getting back to playing the down the stretch specifically the a and m and if they get into the c c championship get into the college football player playoff playing the best brand of football that he can play that is only going to help him it's going to be more wars more big-time games more defensive coverages that he sees more fronts more exotics all those things that's got more opportunities yeah he's got more opportunities with jalen and garrett there's a good chance that they got four games left this year yeah right right so like when a lot of people were worried about you know i've got to plant my flag garratt nussmeyer he was my number one qb qb one he's my guy i'm more worried i texted jim naggie

last night. Hey, Jim, what do you know about Garrett? What's like the family dynamic? What's, what, what's their process? Because he, Jim's got one of the most unique opportunities and responsibilities and the entire NFL draft process. He's talking to coaches, players, agents, agents, parents. He knows what's really going on. And now, like, I talk to a lot of people who love this Garrett Nussmeyer guy, right? You love what you see on tape with the it factor. You see the tools, the anticipation, the timing, the gun slinger mentality, no fear in the pocket, climbing up the pocket, not bailing right, bailing left. There's a lot to like about this guy as just a competitor and as a quarterback prospect. But I get done with the tape and I say,

I think he might want to come back next year. I hope he's not in a situation. And I know his dad's a coach, played the quarterback position. So my initial thought is he's probably pretty grounded will make the right decision and jim jim absolutely echoed that i'm more worried about is the guy going to be ready because these are human beings they're like i'm pulling for all these guys and so when i watch garrett let me take you through the tape okay missed a couple throws early right right make some throws harder than they should be changing arm angles it's i don't know if it's slop or as much as just like, I got this, made some throws. You know what I mean?

Like made some easier throws a little bit more difficult than they needed to be. Next note. Changes his arm slot really, really impressively. Doesn't always do it accurately, but like he can do it. Okay. Even that screen that he threw, the last second is getting it batted down like when you were said in the game I was talking about against Vanderbilt. He's got just from the side, right?

So that stood out to me. really good touch, the red zone touchdown throw to your boy, Taylor, Mason Taylor. Great touch on that throw through two touchdown passes. Only one of them was caught to Mason Taylor. But the second one was just fair. Fading back pressure on them, just a touch. We always talk about like true touch. True touch is the ability in the red zone to drop that ball in the bucket.

and ain't an easy thing. Love is pocket mobility, climbing the pocket. As I mentioned before, eyes down the field, urgency in the pocket. You know, there's tempo to his game, okay? Roll into the right, had Lacey to come back, got that one to midfield. Drills another comeback to the right side. Nice job climbing the pocket, control at the line of scrimmage. That jumped out.

He's got a lot of control up there, setting protections, checking out of plays. Love to see that quarterback, you know, coach his son. Great ball to number three, but in the left side of the end zone throw. Great ball. Number three, young receiver, missed time the jump in complete pass. Strike on a cover two beater down the left, the left rail to Lacey. So like all these throw, these are, and the first half of this game, I'm seeing a lot of NFL stuff from Garrett Nussmeyer. I'm seeing like stuff that translates, right?

Right. So coach, so coach Nussmeyer calls you and he says, why, you're seeing all this great stuff. And I'm seeing this. We all are, right? Mm-hmm. Why should my son go back to school for another year? Joe Burrow. Right.

Jaden Daniels. Caleb Williams. Right. Who else? I mean, we could go. Do you want the opposite effect? Right. How about, um, Mark Sanchez, 13 starts?

Mitch Trubisky, 13 starts. Anthony Richardson pulling himself out of the game, tired, maybe gets bench this week. Some people saw Orlovsky was saying, I haven't studied the tape this week, that the tape was a lot better than people are giving them, but struggling, not playing to the level. 13 starts, right?

Right. So if Mr. Nussmeyer were to call me, I'd say, let's just look. Let's have a conversation. Let's just look. As a, from the media standpoint, this is a conversation that, you know, I want to just make this point quickly that would make me uncomfortable in the past because we don't

understand family dynamics, financial situations with the NIL or NLI, whatever it's called now. I don't even know. There's some, there's some money in Baton Rouge. It's not as big of, it's not as big. Get some insurance. We talked about this the other day. It's not the same kind of risk that it was years ago. So there's that element to this decision making process as well.

And I just, just to educate people, right? like it's not exactly this number and again i'm not about which draft pick they're going to be because i i don't care if the first overall comes with a whole lot of pressure and we've seen a lot of failures there number two overall we've seen robert griffin the third like there's every slot or every range in the draft there's there's been failures and just about every slot and every range in the draft there's been successes okay it's not about where you get drafted but if we're but if mr nussmeyer and and the family is just And I truly believe it's not just about the money.

It's about making the right decision to get him in a position where he does get to the NFL. Exactly. He's prepared. He's as prepared as possible, right? And so with that as the backdrop, if you're just looking financially, okay, every slot down is about a million dollars. I haven't studied the cap, you know, the rookie pool and cap this year. let's call it 35 million guaranteed for your first contract okay that's about what the first overall pick maybe up to 38 million whatever it is but if if you're the first overall pick

if we call it 35 million you go down second pick is 34 third pick's 33 10th pick is what about 25 26 million big difference in money and that's guaranteed money over five years right so you start to look at all right well what's what's nuts going to make as the LSU starting quarterback coming back. I don't know, but, but it sounds like the going rate is somewhere in like the three to five million dollar range for NIL or NL or NLI, whatever the hell they're calling it these days. Right. But, but you know what I mean?

So like, yeah, insurance policy and get me, get me four, four million dollars for to come back next year. You know, you go from, you go potentially and listen, nothing you don't know, but you potentially go from being maybe the 16th pick this year, the 12th pick this year. Come back and be the guy. Yeah, that's her first first pick. You're talking about. So middle of the first round, if that's 16 million to go in fifth overall pick at 30 million over five years. You're making money.

It's the right financial decision. Right. And again, that's not what this is about. This isn't about the draft slot. This isn't about the money. But if money is a major factor in it, you can make an argument. you're better off financially to go back to school. Right.

Don't use this. This is not the main point, but don't use this as an excuse or a reason not to put yourself in the best position to succeed. It shouldn't be a thing where players are feeling the pressure that I have to make this happen now. Exactly. And so we only got to the first half.

Those are all the good things. The second half, and we detailed it on Saturday Night's show after the game. He was feeling himself. As our producer Connor, like, no question. Because that dude was like, you could tell as the game went on,

the throws got a little bit more like, you know, just that you can tell with the quarterback, like pepping the step. Yeah, I got this. In the beginning, it was kind of like, all right,

let's not mess this up. Let's keep the thing rolling. And then all of a sudden, it's like, let's take it. I trust it. Let it rip. Feeling himself,

rolling out to the left, pressure on him in the face, throws it up against the grain. It's exactly what you're told from, I said the other. nine years old on don't make that throw he made that throw all of a sudden elko inserts Marcel reed and the whole thing turns around but later in the game there are two two instances mixed coverages one the second interception if i remember correctly second interception it's a

man it was yes man coverage look slot corner on slot receiver man coverage look slot corner comes off they disguised it beautifully comes off of the slot receiver and has flat responsibility and did it after taking about three steps back bailing back. And so Nussmeyer's pre-snap read, man, post-snap read for, you know, drop, man, because he's turned and run with the guy. And then like that, right, changes on him. And that slot corner is now covering the, covering the flat. And it's an interception. Great design. But you know what happens when you get to game 26 as a starter? right you've seen it before you've seen that before and you've seen it probably three or four times right so

when you walk into that office on the 27th floor in midtown Manhattan and you're intimidated by everyone there and you're overlooking central park you've seen it before so you're like you all right put your head down let's go to work that's what i'm saying with with nussmire okay yeah i just i think the future is brighter with more game experience going to the NFL so we can plant a flag today if we want and say he's QB3. We can argue he's QB1 because I just love him the most. But let's have an educated conversation about what's best for him and organizationally, organizationally in the NFL, what's best for the organization? Right.

I get him in another year, obviously no guarantees, but let's get him coming out in the 2026 NFL draft with 2730 starts. You know what I mean? It's a sound point. And look, we've seen this. to flip the script a little bit, it's, can owners stop putting pressure on their organizations to draft quarterbacks that aren't ready? It kind of changed the whole dynamic of how this is done because these, we have, like,

you just look what happened with Bryce and Carolina. I feel like we've talked about this a couple times now at this point, but don't draft a quarterback when you're not ready to put him in a position to succeed. So there's that side of this as well. And I know, I know we're going to talk to Joel Clatt, and I'm fascinated by the, there's only one man out there, it appears, that's willing to,

in a long time, Coach Prime that's willing to make sure that his son goes to the right place because of that. And we'll have that conversation with him. I'm excited to talk to Joel Cloud. I mean, the absolute pinnacle of what he does. Great insight, I'm sure, coming up on Ohio State, Penn State. I want to dive in a little bit. I got my first like ever from Coach Prime. Instagram.

Big time. You want to talk about intentional. I'm certain Coach Prime isn't sitting around watching, watching us on social media. So someone brought that to his attention and like, yep, let's give that a like. Let's let everyone know, like this is happening. I am going to. Send up that flare. Yeah, yeah.

All right. So you, as we've talked about extensively, what we think he needs. He's got the game reps. He's played great in just about every single big spot, right? He's not himself right now. I don't see a physical injury. I see that he's not letting it rip completely. And I see a coach and coach Sark who I have the utmost, like Sark's my guy.

I've known him, been around, not around him, but like covered him. Pete Carroll was, I was fortunate enough at a young age to get access I didn't even deserve. You know, just Mike Godfrey and I like years ago and moving around with that team and getting to talk to a lot of people in that program. and I've followed Sark and I've talked to Sark. I've sat in meetings with him. We've talked on the sidelines. I respect what he does with quarterbacks as much as anyone in the college game. When I watch that tape, I don't need to call Sark.

I said it before. I don't need to call Sark. I don't need to find. I see what he's doing. Let's get out of this game. Let's protect our quarterback. Let's try to build up his confidence a little bit more after what was that shaky performance against Georgia.

And let's get to the bye week. Let's get them right. And then let's build. And let's finish this thing strong. That's what that game was about. So he's in a different vein. Ewers is different than Milro and Nussmeyer, right? Because he doesn't have the opportunity.

Ewers is coming out. He's had all the wars. It's about getting him right so that he can play his best ball down the stretch. And so we'll see where that plays. But I will say this, Milro has more intriguing upside than any of these guys. Right. Jalen Milrow has more intriguing upside than Quinn Ewers. He is more intriguing upside than Garrett Nussmeier.

You could argue he's. He's got more intriguing upside than Shador Sanders and Cam Ward. You could argue. I'm not here to plant flags, I told you. But with Jalen, the ups and downs are hard to watch. We know he's a phenomenal athlete. We know he's when he takes off and runs and he runs with a purpose and he's committed to running.

He's as good as there is in terms of the quarterback class coming up. You know he's going to be a difference maker running the football in the NFL. We've seen with guys like Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson, the best example of all. You can enter the league as a phenomenal athlete

who can extend plays and run and you can improve your accuracy. You can improve as a passer. That wasn't always the case because we were dealing with quarterbacks that didn't have that mobility who couldn't solve the question marks

at the line of scrimmage with their ability to extend and take off and run the football. It's a different position now than it used to be. And so Jalen could get in the end. NFL and could overcome what he's dealing with in terms of not being comfortable in the pocket, footwork, not being consistent. Games, like the Georgia game, even the Vanderbilt game, he was accurate throwing the football

for the most part. But there were games where he's not, you know, and even this last week missed throws. Played good. The offense had, like 500 yards. They shut out a ranked opponent. This isn't about Alabama, this is about Jalen Milrow and his development. Where is he? Right.

I think he would have a better chance to overcome the lack of experience than Garrett Nussmeyer would. But Jalen Milrow is so far from being polished, for lack of a better word. He just, he needs more work. He needs more work than, than Nussmeyer does in terms of being comfortable in the pocket, having his footwork right, marrying his feet to his eyes. So with Milro, I've said it from the beginning, and it won't change. He's the wild card in this group.

There's no question about it. And we saw where Lamar Jackson was drafted, 32 overall. Baltimore Ravens trade up. Go get him, right? I think that was Ozzy's last draft, trade up. I want to leave his mark. Hell of a mark for hell of the guy. I mean, Ozzy is one of our favorites.

But, but. So what's your instinct there? Are you saying that even though he could overcome these things? And I agree with that what you're saying. I think it's dead on. I love, not just as a college football fan. I would love Jalen Milro to come back for another year. Okay.

Just want to be clear about that. I agree with you. Everyone in Tuscaloosa loves this guy. Hardworking, good dude, cares about his teammates, has matured as a passer, has matured as a leader. I want to see another year of it. Now you're in year two with Kalin DeBore, right? Now you're in year two of the system.

Michael Penix was really helpful. You know what I mean? He's got a track record. Yeah. Yeah. Now let's get a full off season where it's not the new coach coming in and Nick Saban leaving where the focus can be on ball. All the focus can be on ball.

Now I've got I've got whether 13 wars or 14 to 15, 16 mores, whatever it turns out to be behind me with this system. Now let's advance it. Now let's spend an off season working on my footwork. Let's get more comfortable. I'm still going to be Jalen. I'm still going to be an absolute threat in a phenom running the football, but now I'm going to add another element.

That's what I want to see for Jalen. Forget about the draft, forget about the team's drafting, forget about the draft coverage, all that stuff. For Jalen Milro, I want to see another year of him developing. So when he gets there, he's ready to contribute. He's exactly. Couldn't agree more. And listen, Lamar Jackson deserves all the credit in the world for where he,

with the player that he's developed into, It's a credit to his work ethic. It's an incredible story. But we also have to give credit to that staff and that organization for helping him really unlock that potential. So if you told me that Jalen Milro was going to end up in the same kind of spot as Lamar Jackson did when Baltimore got him at the end of the first round, I mean, that's, you know, it's a different conversation if you get into those specifics.

But there's no guarantee of that. Yeah. Why take that risk? I think that you're right. You're better served going back. and become the best football player that you can be going into the bros. These are the conversations I want to have on this show. And if they're too rational for you,

then maybe this isn't the show for you. But if you want more of like this kind of stuff, like the, you know, watch tape, study it, understand what we're looking at. Let's talk about it. Let's talk through. Like these are the conversations you and I have on the phone. These are the conversations I have with NFL general managers.

You know, like this is the real stuff. and I'm just excited to be doing it with your brother. I hope you enjoy this show if you're watching or listening. I don't know how like I know everyone I listen to on a podcast. Like, subscribe, download, all that stuff. Please be. We're just starting out. We're like the little engine that could.

We're going to, you know, chug away at this thing. But please pass the word on if you can. But I'm most excited to be honest with you with the guests we've got upcoming. Joel Clat, like the fact that he'd take time to sit down with us. and takes precious time out of this week. Getting ready for Penn State, Ohio State, means the world to us. So next up on the show, Joel Clatt, Fox Sports, lead analyst,

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RG-h-help.com. Well, we always appreciate this guy's time, but especially this week. The biggest game of the year so far, Ohio State, Penn State. We've got it on Fox right after noon kickoff. We've got the big noon. We've got the, the man himself, Joel Clatt, the lead analyst for college football for Fox. And first of all, let's start here, Joel. I've done a bunch of big games. I know the feeling, but what's the difference in terms of this week compared to some of the other weeks and how exciting is it for you just personally, knowing that like all eyes of the college football world are going to be on you. It's the big game. Go into Penn State, like the history, the rivalry, all those sorts of things leading up to this one. Well, let's just say I'm not as worried

about blowout material this week, you know, as maybe some other weeks. And I know, I know you know the feeling. But this one is, this one is obviously special. And I've been looking forward to this game ever since the offseason. And also because I think what people maybe don't realize that are just fans of this sport, is that when we, we have these contracts, you know, ESPN has their contract, CBS has their contract, NBC has their contract, Fox, we have our contract. Well, I end up seeing these specific teams a lot, and I end up seeing these specific coaches a lot.

And I see them in the offseason that, you know, and so what ends up happening is like, I know every single storyline and even the personal ones. You know, I know what James is feeling this weekend because of what has happened to three previous years in terms of losing to Michigan. and Ohio State and that feeling and that narrative surrounding him and his program that he can't win this specific game. I know what Ryan is up against at Ohio State and the narrative that his fan base kind of builds up. And so it's not just the game, which in and of itself is incredible, but it's all the underlying subtext of what's going on in these games, their fan bases. That's what ends up becoming so interesting for me and elevates the game.

really to a status that is hard to explain. Both of these programs and these coaches specifically desperately need to win Saturday. And those are the best games to do. You've done them. I've done them. You know, when you know that each team will literally do anything, do whatever it takes to win, that's when you know you're about to see something special. Let's start with Ryan Day in Ohio State.

Herb Street always calls it the lunatic fringe. As an alumni, he can, you know, he can, you know, he can get away with that. Yeah, that's right. I'm not going to say it. Yeah, exactly. There's certain things you can say based on your background, right? That's right.

You know, he says it's like 10, 15%, whatever it is, but the other 85, they're just great college football fans. They love their program. But that lunatic fringe is always the loudest, whether it's politics, sports, it doesn't matter. And you look at the record, 62 and 9, Joel, for Ryan Day, Ohio State. But the Michigan game, you know, that's obviously why. we're hearing some of the noise that we're hearing. I know Ryan Day pretty well, you know, go back to Chip Kelly with,

mention I actually played at Richmond, played against Chip all the way back of the days at UNH and Ryan Day was there. So I know though, I know these human beings. Yeah. What do you expect from Ryan Day when you fly in, you meet with him this week? What do you expect that kind of the mindset to be? Well, I will tell you, you know, I first met him when he was just a quarter, and Urban Meyer had hired him from San Francisco.

And, you know, from that point to this point, this job, that fan base, ages you a little bit. And it, and it grows you up in the sport of football. And I think he would even be the first to say that you really have no idea until you're in it, because it's, it's somewhat of a cauldron or a reckoning, if you will. You know, I remember, and I'm sure you've heard this too, Todd, like a lot of the people that played for Sabin or coached under Savan would say every day is a reckoning. Well, for, for Ohio State and Urban would even say this as well, Coach Meyer, he would say like at Ohio State, every day is fourth and one. Or, you know, another way of putting that is every day as a reckoning. And you can feel that, you know, on Ryan's shoulders.

Yes. Here's the one thing that I think, and you mentioned the record, 62 and 9, which is staggering. I mean, it's like, what are we doing, right? Like, this is incredible. It's an elite program. And it's not always the case that somebody can take over a program that is at the top of college football, and then they can keep it there and maintain it. And in some ways, move it even forward, which is what Ryan has been able to do. Now, he's been a snap or two away from winning a national championship,

beating some of those teams in those big games. And that certainly weighs on them. One of the things that I've talked with him about is this, this idea that the more you know, the more you realize you need to learn, you know, and as, and I think that this, this is true in life as well. I've certainly gone through it personally. But it's like, the smarter you become, the more you realize you don't know. Yeah, you don't have all the answers, right?

That's exactly right. And, and the less you know, the more you think you have everything figured out. Yeah. I think that the exact same thing can be said for coaches. And when he was a young coach, even a young head coach, I think that there was an idea of like, no, I know what this is and I know how to do this and we're going to, you know, run through it. And the reality is, as you look around college football and it's history, and the reality is the greatest coaches in our sports history took a while to win at the top end.

You know, I mean, even Nick Saban, he had to go through the Michigan state years and then get to LSU. and it wasn't until he was into his 50s that he began that run at Alabama. Same with Pete Carroll, the same thing. Tom Osborne took, what was it, 20 years to win a national championship. It took Urban Meyer, you know, growing through Bowling Green in Utah and then getting to Florida. Yeah. You know, and this idea that you just become a head coach and then you win a national championship is not historically accurate. you know, Bob Stoops ruined it for everybody, you know, Barbarsook's ruined it for everybody.

So we've talked about that. And he is now at that point where he will, and this is where you know that he's comfortable with it, he will say to me, like, I learn every year. And those learning experiences are going to pay off. He's going to win at the top end at some point. And what he's got to continue to do is keep putting his, his team at the doorstep because you do this enough and eventually you're going to break down that door. And I'm, you know, I know that that's a big overarching answer, but no, it's great.

I really believe that. Yeah. But you can tell by Mention's beard, he's a former offensive lineman. I know he's clamoring to ask him about Ohio's got offensive line. That's right. We're going to give into the O line. I know we are. Yeah, I can't wait. So anyone who watched that game knows that the Ohio State left tackle making his first start for the injury, Josh Simmons. was in over his head, just did not play well, both in the run game and in pass protection. But I go back and watch that tape, and I thought there were other issues up front.

I thought that the right guard didn't have, the right guard was a little bit of an issue for them. There were some execution issues. And I was wondering if you were just seeing some of the same things and what you thought, what's the fix here? What are they going to do to fix this? Yeah. So, yes, to answer, you know, the first part of your question,

there were major issues. And not just Zen Mahalski, the kid who came in at left tackle, although he did struggle. And I think those were the most, I think, glaring and obvious. But there were some other things going on with the offensive line, namely in this idea of, it's hard for me not having played the position to understand really like, what does it mean technically when an O line, not a specific offensive lineman, but an O line is playing well together.

There's there's a cohesiveness to the movement of those five guys. Right. That when when when they're playing well, it is it's like beautiful. You know, it's almost like like dance steps. Like everybody's foot steps at the same time and their hands move at the same time. And you're like, man, this is incredible. You know. He gets a Mischay.

Oh, he does. And it's easier for me, to be honest. And Todd, I think, you know, maybe you can relate to this. It's easier for me in the draft process to just look at a player up front. Be like, okay, what does he do? Versus, tell me why this offensive line is so good. It's because it's very hard to explain. And there's that cohesiveness.

Like, for instance, I did Indiana the previous week. Indiana, I would say up front, probably not as individually talented as what Ohio State is up front. And yet, their offensive line played better as a group. And they're more cohesive as a group. they're more connected to the structure of the offense and what the offense is trying to do and the rhythm of what the offense is trying to do. Because it's not just that everybody is moving with a cohesiveness, but it's also that they're moving in conjunction with backs and protections and wide receivers and pictures and timing and that everything just kind of looks correct. I don't see that with Ohio State. And now you're going to change things up.

I'm expecting, I don't know this to be a fact, and I haven't talked to them. yet obviously. I'm expecting Donovan Jackson to bump out to left tackle. He's an all American guard that now all of a sudden, and by the way, he is not one of these linemen and guys, you know that this happens all over. It's like, oh, he's played all over the offensive line. He's played at center and guard, and, you know, he's bounced around through his few years. I can't think of, there was a guy last year. Gosh, who was it in the draft? Anyways, this happens where their best offensive lineman ends up playing all the different positions. That hasn't been Donovan. Donovan has been a guard. Right. And his entire career. And so bumping out for this game, it's a totally

different world. By the way, and it's a different world just period. At Happy Valley, holy cow. Right. Yeah. With that dual Carter coming and with that dual Carter coming, I always go back to calling the Michigan Penn State game a year ago. And, you know, everybody has an opinion on Michigan's 32 straight runs in that game. We all, right? And it was like, oh, they went bully ball and, you know, Michigan. Oh, look at that. They can run.

They ran the ball 32 straight times because they couldn't block Chop Robinson. Right. It was impossible. He ran around the right tackle twice on the first two series. And like JJ barely got the ball away and he was on rhythm. And so it was a panic move. I mean, I don't know how else to explain it, but it was like, okay, screw it, extra offensive linemen,

extra tight ends. Let's create what. It's the safest route. It's the safest route. That's exactly route. Right. So now let's back up. Okay, so you're asked about the Ohio State offensive line.

So now you're going to bump a true guard out to tackle. And who knows who's going to play guard. Exactly. Now you're weaker in the middle. That's a problem. Right. Guys, like so, so now this offensive line and this offense, I think, is going to have to have a completely different fingerprint than what Chip really wants. And I could see that last week against Indiana.

Long, long, long answer that I'll try to boil down to this. I felt Chip calling the game last week for the rest of the season. He was forcing the run so heavily because he. he was thinking to himself like, I've got to, one, figure out what I've got up front and two, get them going. And so they were just running it and running it. And Nebraska is playing into their hands because for them, after the previous week against Indiana, they were like, hell or high water, we're going to allow them to run for 200 yards. So they're just like, bang, they're in there.

Huttmakers is in there. Ty Robinson's in there. They're in the middle. They're not wide in their odd front, you know, creating bubbles. They're in tight. They're playing quality defense. They're getting after it. And Chip is like banging his head against a wall trying to run.

the football because he knows that he'd like to run the football for the rest of the season. Correct. And there's a little bit of anxiety about like, well, if we can't run it today, like, will we be able to run it in the future? I want to try to get some success. Then you look up at the end of the game, guys. And it's a four point game and Dylan Ryola is on the field with a chance to win the game. And Jeremiah Smith has had four targets. And you're like, that can't happen. And it was because of the offensive line. Yeah, the tar, I'm glad you brought up the targets. It was amazing to me that he wasn't targeted more in that game. And then you have one of the most talented backfields in the country.

And if you can't get those guys going, I mean, it's a different team if they can't figure that old line out. Yeah. And I know it's not the scheme, you know, Todd, you and I and Steve with your online background, we know that Chip, there is not a better run game offensive coach, I think, in the sport and Chip Kelly. He's done it with all levels of office. offensive line and levels of back.

And he's been successful. You know those two backs are incredible players with what they've got in their past. So you start ticking away these variables of like, well, what's the problem here? Well, I know it's not the scheme. I know it's not the backs. And it's like, well, it's the five guys up front. And they've got to figure that out. Obviously, when you have a talent like Jeremiah Smith, there will, Chip will find ways.

Right? Todd, before you finish, dude, I'm going to like throw a. a question back. Because you know that it can be easy sometimes in our industry and with what we do to overstate sometimes

with players because they could be like the best on their team or this year or things and you're wanting to try to categorize like I've tried to pump the brakes on this guy but it's like don't bother. Don't. I have not. I have not. I have

not seen this. This is he for me in my career is is one of one for this age and that position. I've never seen anything like it. And I've seen all of these guys come through Ohio State. Brian Hartline has seen all of these guys come through Ohio State. We just we just had the greatest of all time, right? Like Marvin Harrison Jr. How do you, how do you find, but this guy's got a chance to maybe be even better? I agree. I think that if he, if he, If he were to just like continue to stay healthy and to continue to stay hungry, he will be without question a top two, three wide receiver in the NFL sometime fairly soon. And if he stays healthy and hungry, like he'll be an all time great.

There's no doubt. And what's crazy, we got to, he is, he is ridiculous. I'm watching the film, dude. The guy is 6.3-220. 6-3-2-20. And he's just blowing by guys at the second level with his second level release. Just. And so I asked him, I was like, hey, on the catapult, like, what is he touching?

And they're like, oh, he touches 23. And I'm like, oh, gosh. Wow. At that size. Yeah, like I look at him, you kind of like a young Julio Jones, but Julio Jones ran like a four or five something, you know? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's fun to what.

And you look across the landscape, right? Like, Texas has got a great one. Alabama's got a great one with Ryan Williams. And they're like, they're all phenomenal. And I just, my brain, unfortunately, the way it's wired, I'm like 2027, all right, 2027 drag. You know, like we could have like two or three receivers in the top five. Like these.

I agree. Well, and Smith, to me, it's like if someone needs a quarterback, fine. They'll take a quarterback that year. But yeah. But he'll, he's the, he's already the best position. He might be the best position player this year. Yeah. You know, like if he could go to the draft, he, he could be like the second, third

pick in the draft this year. I agree. I actually agree. And I, and I, I'm very careful about those things. I know. They always come back to bite me, but I don't disagree. So, so how about the guy getting him the ball? I just, I love the stories.

I guess it's just being on the road doing games for so long. You try to find the stories and things that are interesting. and Will Howard, you know, talking this week about, you know, he, like Downington West High School, born in Westchester, PA. One, you know, Dream was to play at Penn State, was kind of got shunned by, by Penn State and recruiting. And now you got this shot. How excited are you to tell that story and what else can you shed a light on?

I love this. I love this storyline because this in a lot of ways, well, I just relate to it. Mm-hmm. You know, bottom line. I was a guy that wasn't recruited at the. the top end and football. In fact, I was just like a division two recruit. You know, when I, when I came out of high school, I was a three sport player and I was a very good baseball player and, you know, was a division two recruits. Um, uh, South Dakota State. I went up to

Brookings. I went to North Dakota state, Northern Colorado. And, you know, that was, that was it. And I, and I wanted to play for Sunny Lubick at CSU so bad, right? Like that was just, I was like, man, if it, because Colorado, to me, me was like, well, man, they're, they're too good for me. I go and I play baseball for three seasons. And then I decided like, I need a degree. I need to change my life. And I was going to quit baseball. And so I decided to go to school at Colorado. I didn't quit baseball to go play football at Colorado. I didn't know this. Yeah, I didn't know this either. And and then once that happened, the coaching staff was like, well, you got to walk on, you know, if you're going to be here and you have eligibility. And so I

walked on at Colorado, not thinking really anything of it. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, man, I could, I could play. And so all of a sudden that it starts to unfold that way. And then I get to play and start against Colorado State. And dude, I used to be so jacked up for that game because I was like, these guys passed. Like they didn't. And what they had done is, is there was a really good player that was a year younger than me in high school in our state. and and then there were a couple of really good players that were in my grade and one of them went to Arizona state. I can't remember his name. And anyways.

And then the other was Craig Oaks and Craig Oaks went to Colorado. And then the guy younger than me, CSU decided like, well, we want him. His name was Justin Holland. So they didn't offer me and they never forget those names, right? I never forget. Yes, exactly. So and I got to play Justin Holland, you know, in college. Like, I didn't forget that.

And I remember, like, I wanted to run across the field and say to Sunny Lubick, like, how do you like me now? Like, I was jacked up outside of what I would normally be for those games. So I give that personal anecdote to tell you, like, I can't wait to see what Will does and to see how he reacts and plays. Because for him, he will always, not just because it's a big game, but he will always remember this opportunity to go and play against Penn State and the program that he desperately wanted to play for.

Do you remember your stat line in that Colorado State game? Do you remember what you threw for? That wasn't the very first start ever. I want to know. They were ranked. Bradley Van Pelt was their quarterback. Oh, yeah. And he was an older guy.

They were favored. You know, everyone was like, Colorado was going to start a walk on? Like, what are we doing? And we beat him 42, 35. I threw for 417 yards. Yes. Tight game, too. I love it.

That's right. I love it, man. You like me now, son. Exactly, exactly. Oh, man, I love those stories. All right. So we're always looking here on this show, NFL talent and all that.

Defensively, it's hard for me because Ohio State is loaded with veterans on defense. Yeah. Everyone talks about how, you know, extremely talented this defense is. And it is, right? But I look at like, you go back over the history, like every year at Alabama when they were winning championships, it was like, all right, we just lost four first rounders on the defensive side to the draft. But they get three more coming back next year.

Georgia has been the same way. It's like, oh, five guys in the top 50, seven, nine guys in the top 100, right? This group, maybe there's one first rounder, you know, but a bunch of day two, you know, second, third, maybe fourth round picks loaded with talent, a bunch of. veterans when everyone talks about elite i don't know that they're elite by that standard you know that we've seen but they're they got a chance to be really good what i guess what have you seen and who's jumped up for you on ohio states defense so the guys that you would come into this season saying they've got a chance to to play themselves into the first round haven't played that way yet You know, and I so that's, that's the, I guess the part of the problem.

These guys are very good pastures. Just came in as, you know, two of the top five players in the country. And it's just never quite gotten there, you know, in terms of dominance at the college level. They're very good. Very good. They create a lot of pressure. But the production numbers as far as getting to the quarterback aren't, aren't what the pressure numbers would indicate. You know, they're top five in the country and pressures, and yet they're like 30 third in sacks.

So that's, you know, to me, that's an issue. You've got to get home. The defensive tackles, which they thought were going to be elite, Tileak Williams, being one of them, hasn't played like a first round player. You know, the corners who they thought could be first round corners haven't played like first round corners. So what you've got now is because of that, I feel them starting to press schematically. See, when your players are out there and they're playing at a really, really, really high level, you don't have to do much defensively. And that's, I think, now, Sabin's always a bit of an anomaly because he was going to be intricate

in particular in the secondary anyways, Todd. You know, we watched these guys and they were in. brackets and they're doing all sorts of different stuff in the back end. But when I look at other defenses that I thought were ridiculously talented, they didn't have to do much. The 19 Ohio State defense schematically did not do much because those guys, and I'm talking about like the Chase Young, Jeff Okuda defense, they didn't have to do much schematically.

And they were fine with that. I even go back to a team that I played against in 2005, that Texas team that won the national championship. and they had two Thorpe Award winners in the back end, and they had all these guys. They ran like two defenses. They ran like Stack 4-3, and then they would walk up Mike and, or excuse me, Sam and Will, and run cover zero double crash. And it was like, that was it, you know, but it's like, well, fine, we're just better than you.

Matt, Michigan's defense last year, it wasn't intricate necessarily. They would sit there and they did a great job schematically against Washington with what they did in their coverage. But to me, Jesse Mentor, he understood that it was more about depth, playing a lot of snaps and staying fresh up front. It was about maintaining levels of defense. Just make sure you're not giving up an easy touchdown. And then in the moments that you need it for the team, then you get aggressive. So we used to talk a lot about like he always said, this is Jesse mentor for Michigan's defensive coordinator a year ago. And he and I used to talk about this idea that in the third quarter, he always felt like

the way that they played, there was going to be one series where he could end the game in the third quarter. And he thought it was always going to come like, if we score on offense in the third quarter at any point, either to take the lead or with the lead already and we score, The next series, he was like a three and out breaks their back. It's over because of our style, the time of possession. And, you know, he understood that. So he used to take what I used to say about the boa constrictor,

and he would say that was our moment to squeeze. And then they would get aggressive and they would squeeze. And then all of a sudden you get a three and out, you get a punt. Now another long drive. Now you're into the fourth quarter and it's a two possession game and it's over. Right, right. And it's over. Right.

And, okay, so how does that relate to this Ohio State? defense. Well, because their players, I don't feel like, have played to the level that they thought that they would individually as far as the production. They're having to manipulate the structure. When you manipulate the structure, you are more susceptible to the big play. And that's exactly what happened against Oregon. And then that's, I think they're going to be more susceptible to the big play moving forward because their answer after Oregon was more aggression. They did more things, you know, rather than a straight four-man pass rush, they started to do stunts, twists, twists, and blitz. And that's what they did on third down,

which was a little bit different, you know. And that's going to promote more one-on-one coverage. And so we're going to see Denzel Burke and Davis and Nick Benos in their two corners. They're going to be on an island. And we're going to see if they can hold up because they didn't against Oregon. Yes. Statistically, they have 20 sacks and J.T. leads the team with four and a half. I mean, they're, they're getting that pressure from all, it just you look at the stats and you can see they've got DVs, safeties, linebackers. Those are the kind of guys they're rushing right now. So the numbers back it up. So let's look at it the opposite side now, right?

Penn State, where are we a quarterback? Obviously, you know, Drew Aller comes out, the injury. I know it's always going to be tight-lipped and what's going to happen there. Bo Perbula, I think I'm pronouncing it right. You'll know better than me at this point. I like, I kind of liked him, man. I do too. I did too. I did too. Especially, think about what I just talked about.

Man defense, single coverage. Well, guess what? Man defense hates a running quarterback. You know, that's when you give up explosive runs to the quarterback. And so in some ways, I think Perbula might even be like a better matchup against Ohio State. I know that that's, maybe people don't want to hear that. It's not a knock against Drew.

Alar because I think he's incredibly talented. I really do. But when you've got, you know, traditional pass rushing defense events and you've got a defense that wants to play man coverage and be aggressive, man, a guy that can elude and create with his legs becomes so dangerous. So Perbula, I don't think it's the worst problem to have this week. Would you like Alar back, probably, because I think playing with both of those guys would actually be, you know, even more beneficial. But if you have to go with Bo Probula, I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. Interesting. Ty Warren. I mean, he's, I love this guy. I love him. So back at Richmond, you know, the center of the football universe, I know.

Spiders. Yeah, spiders. Frank Leonard was our coach, a tight-end's coach. And every year he's got a new He's at Penn State now. And he just, he raves above. He just loves the human being, the work ethic. And then you see the tape and he's phenomenal. We know what he is and we know what he can provide. We know how they're going to try to utilize him. Who else are you looking for, though?

Who's got to have a big game for Penn State weapons? Yeah, this is a great question. And this is what James and I talk about a lot is that he thinks that what has really held them back is that they have not had that wide receiver step up and be able to just win in a big moment and stay on the field on the third down. He had to play that in Marvin Harrison two years ago. You watched that tape of Ohio State with Stroud and Harrison two years ago in Happy Valley. And it's like that Penn State team had a great chance.

And then Marvin and Stroud just kind of took over the game. And in particular on third down and Joey Porter couldn't cover him. And, you know, it's just like that's, they had an elite player elevate the rest of the team to a point of a win. And Penn State hasn't had that ability. so it's tougher on them to move the ball. They have to be with the chains. They don't have a guy that they can feel like is just going to win on the outside

and get that elite wide receiver play. And then to me, I watched the USC film, and I'm like, what allowed them to come back and win on some of those fourth downs? They got some wide receiver play, and they got some completions in big moments, whether it was Trey Wallace or Julian Fleming. These guys won in big moments.

That's what they need. I'm pretty confident. and everything else I'm going to get from Penn State. I know their defense is going to be aggressive and athletic and long, and they're going to run, man. That's what I'm going to get from the Nittany Lions. I know that I'm going to get a team that can run the football with two really strong backs. We'll get some RPO's.

We're going to get the tied in moving all around. It's going to be creative with Andy Codalnicki. He'll take some of his shots. What I don't know is what level of production or play am I going to get on the outside. to me that's where the entire game lands for Penn State. So I'm looking at those two names that I mentioned, Trey Wallace, I'm looking at Julian Fleming, maybe a couple of those other guys.

Can they give Tyler Warren some help? Because I don't think you can go out and expect 17 catches again from Warren. Like Ohio State's going to be ready for that. And Ohio State has better matchups than USC did on the tied in, namely Caleb Downs. you know, he's going to be there looking at 44. So those guys have to play big on the outside. This is the game, right, for Franklin, right?

He's, this is the one that they have not been able to win. He's been upfront about it in years past. Like, if they're going to take it to another level, this is the game, the type of game that they've got to win. If it's different, if the result is different this year, why will that be the case? Hmm. I just touched on wide receivers. I think one of those guys will have to make a big play. And then I look at that O line for Ohio State. Yeah. And I'm thinking of this, like if you,

just go to 30,000 feet for a second. And you're James Franklin and your Penn State. And you don't have to see Michigan, you know, this year. You don't have to see Oregon. And Ohio State's already lost a game in the Big Ten against Oregon. A second. A second. loss eliminates them from the Big Ten championship. Now, they might still go to the playoff, but with Indiana being undefeated, it eliminates them from the Big Ten championship game. So you've got a chance to really, the facto, eliminate the Buckeyes in the Big Ten. And they're going to come in with an absolute patchwork offensive line off of a game in which they only ran the football for 2.1 yards per carry.

Like, this is it, man. Like you are at home. I don't, and again, I know that there are injury issues. Yeah, you know, the quarterback's banged up. Deny Dennis Sutton was banged up last week, the other defensive end opposite Abdul Carter. But there are moments when it's like, you just got, you just have to go out and you just have to do it. And Michigan had to cross that threshold a couple of years ago and finally beat Ohio State. And this is kind of one of those moments for Penn State.

You've got to go do it. He hasn't, he hasn't beaten Penn State since that, or excuse me, Ohio State since that 16 year. Remember when they block the field goal, it kind of shaves his job. They go down and they end up winning the Big Ten championship that year. Not that there's a ton of pressure, you know, because they would still go to the playoff, even if they lost this game. But man, if you're going to do it, this is it. I know this team is talented, but it's a defense that's reeling, that has given up big plays.

it's a team that's reeling because they don't know what's on the offensive line. You got to win. Well, let's switch real quick because you talked about Colorado. I just while you're here real quickly, Coach Prime. And what's it been like watching your squad, what he's done for that program? And I guess spinning it forward, like, what's the future look like for Colorado? man those are i feel like two very different yeah i'm not good at this man we just started the show oh i love i love it um let me take right now um right now there is no other other way

to evaluate this than a complete and utter success yes one thousand percent just to give you some perspective of where colorado was guys before Dion walked in. They were one and 11. We understand that. It's like, okay, they were one and 11. But the level of bad was staggering. There are 11 losses in that year.

They lost by an average of 29. They lost seven games by 30 or more. Seven. So let me try to give some context in that. Okay. So I believe Northwest. Western was also 1 and 11 that year. And if you looked at which teams across the country lost by the greatest margin per game,

I did this study. And it's like Colorado lost by an average of 29, the next closest was Northwestern. Their average margin of defeat was 13. So you're like, you're doubling up the next closest team. I don't think people realize like how bad it was. And so he comes in and he's like, hey, listen, like I'm going to change up the roster.

And everyone's like, oh, man, I feel so bad for these kids. He didn't do anything that Lincoln Riley didn't do or Kurt Signetti hasn't done at Indiana. Like these guys change the roster. They come in and they completely blow up the roster. That's what it is. He just did it in a different way with cameras all around. And now everybody's got an opinion. And now everybody wants to jump on.

And, you know, they were better last year, certainly, but there was some glaring deficiencies, namely at the line of scrimmage. He made a couple of, I think, really good hires on the defensive side, namely this young guy, Rob Livingston, who came in. He was the secondary coach for the Cincinnati Bengals last year, did not have play-calling responsibilities. And he comes in to be a coordinator for the first time, and he's done a marvelous job, guys. Very much in the same vein of a Joe Brady when he was hired to coordinate at LSU. He had not called plays for, what was it, the Saints, right, Todd? Yeah, the Saints at the time. Ryan Day didn't have play calling duties with San Francisco under Chip Kelly.

He was a quarterback coach, but Urban Meyer hired Ryan Day. So, like, that's the vein in which Dion hired Rob Livingston, and he has been an absolute joy to watch. That defense all of a sudden plays really hard in the front seven. They've got a couple of safeties that I really like. They obviously can cover on the outside with Travis Hunter. the defensive line is playing great. Warren Sapson,

an assistant defensive line coach. And everyone's like, oh, wait, that wasn't a gimmick. He's actually getting them to play really hard and they rush the passer. And then on the offensive line, they've got Phil Lodhull, remember him from OU as their O'Line coach.

And again, a little bit of an outside of the box higher, but that offensive line is so much better. They're actually protecting a little bit. I mean, I watch all this good or tape. He's actually getting a little bit of time. That's exactly right. And when you give a little time to him with those receivers, it becomes a real.

good offense. Yeah. So now they're six and two. They're four and one in the Big 12. They've got an outside shot to go to the Big 12 championship game, which then becomes a 60-minute coin flip to go to the college football playoff. And we're talking about a program that lost by an average of 29, two years ago.

So I get, like, worked up because I'm like, where are you at now, haters? Like, what are you going to talk about now with this guy, you know? And it's not just flash. This is substance. This is substance. They're playing really quality football. And I do think Travis Hunter is going to deserve not only a trip to New York for the Heisman trophy, but real consideration for that trophy.

I think Shador Sanders has to. Has to. I think Shador Sanders at this point would absolutely be first team all American. Maybe Dylan Gabriel sneaks it from him because of his season, but like look at what Shador is doing. So, you know, that's a real thing, guys. And I'm really proud. I'm really proud of him. I was close to that process.

And I know it was outside of the box. And he has done incredible things for not only the university, but the community at large and then obviously the program as well. Yeah. That's great. So Shador, like, you know, all we're thinking about is, first of all, his tape has been damn good this year. Yeah.

He's the best pure passer, in my opinion, in the country. Yes. He's the closest thing that resembles a C.G. J. Stroud. Yes. Yes. And having a little bit of protection this year, you can actually see him, like what translates, right? I did find it funny. Deaunt, we had a clip the other day, and I was going on a rant. Like, like, let's start in dealing in reality of Chador may be dictated in terms of where he goes by Coach Prime. And it is what it is. So let's start talking about it. I mean, we had that with Eli, you know, we had John Elway.

It wouldn't be unprecedented, you know. And so I noticed that someone actually sent me a text and said, check out who liked your clip. It was Coach Prime. And I'm not naive enough to think that he's sitting around watching the McShea show in the first week, you know, inception. So like there was some intention behind that, right? Totally.

What do you, like, you know Coach Prime. You know Shador. You know how I don't, I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but I think you know how this could play out and what their intentions are. How do you, what do you take us behind the scene a little bit in terms of what you think the draft process might look like for Shador? It'll look different than, than most draft processes, because every process that they have had, whether it's Deon as a coach, Shador as a player, the way that they promote their own team themselves individually, it has looked different

than anything prior that we've seen. So moving forward, we're about to see a draft process that looks different than anything that we've ever seen before because that's been the precedent that they've set with everything that they've done. And that's not a bad thing. I think that Dion is incredibly smart. Like, he is really smart. Everything he's done ever since he's been in college. Think about inventing the primetime persona.

And like what that deal like this guy has been ahead of his game and ahead of the sport in general forever. He was ahead of the way you market yourself as a player. He was ahead. And he's now been ahead. ahead of the way you market yourself as a coach and as a program. And they will be ahead of what it means to go through the draft process when we know, we know unequivocally the most important part about a quarterback's ongoing success at the next level is fit.

We know that. We know that. Look at Jade and Daniels. Exactly. Compare it to Bryce Young. Compare it to Sam Darry. Arnold, his journey, like all of them. A hundred percent.

Baker Mayfield is the same way. You know, like you can go on and on and on. And everybody is looking for these unicorns that are fit independent. And it just doesn't happen. Yeah. It just doesn't happen, guys. And so if we think that they will just allow Chodor to go to wherever, you know, the NFL wants to send him, we got another thing coming.

That will not happen. There is no chance on the face of the planet that Shadur winds up in some place that they don't want him to be. And they will vet that process. They will vet the coordinators. They will vet the head coach. And more importantly, and this is where I think Dion's even better, it's not necessarily just about scheme fit and coaching fit, but organizational fit.

Because as we know at the next level, it is incredible. rare for an organization's team to have success when their front office is a mess. Yep. Like the front office. And ownership specifically. And ownership specifically, you don't see really bad owners win at the top end. You just don't see it really in any sport, but certainly at the national football league. And so they'll be ahead of that.

There's no, there's not a doubt in my mind that they will be ahead of that. And that's why I, and it's not even just teams that'll be in the top 10 that could trade around. I start thinking a little bit outside the box of even like aging quarterbacks that are playing for coaches that we know are great coaches and working for great owners. I'm just going to throw this out. And I know this is wildly early, wildly early. I love it. That's what we're here for. Rams. I knew he's going to say it. I knew he's going to say it. It's a great place for a young quarterback to go. I mean, Stafford's got two more years on the contract.

You know, he's 36 now, I think. It's L.A. It's Todd McShay. It's Stan Cronkey. It's a older quarterback that knows he's not going to play forever. Right. Great system. Great coach. Great guy to learn. And you know what? Yeah. You know what? Like, I'm old school in a lot of ways.

I'm here for it. I'm here for it. You know, like, it's entertaining. If nothing else, this is going to be in. incredible to watch. It's going to be incredible to watch, right? We've never, and like, you know, the mannings were the difference. It's kind of like you talked about when he took the job and turned over the roster. Some people do it and it's just kind of accepted and it's, it's behind the scenes. They're going to do it different than the mannings did it. They're going to do it different with

different than L. They're going to do. It's going to be in your face and people are going to be screaming about it. Old GMs who are on television. They're going to be pounding. This isn't the process. I get it. But, but, but it's Is you wrong? No. Right? Like, you know, he's not, he's not going to be wrong. You might not.

If it was your kid, how would you handle it? Exactly. If it was your kid and you had this amount of leverage, wouldn't you use it? Absolutely. Well, of course. Yeah. Well, of course. I appreciate your time, man.

I really do. You don't know it yet or met. She doesn't know it, but he's going to be a friend of the show. Oh, nice. How, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, lathered up is Gus Johnson going to be on Saturday? Oh, buddy. Well, he's going to be rested because we've had a lot of blowouts this year.

You know, so like you're going to get his best. There's no doubt. That's got to be a fun booth, man. We appreciate your time. Everyone needs to check out the Joel Clatt show. Better college football show than our show. I can say that with confidence. We'll get there, though.

We appreciate everything you do. We really looking forward to the call on Saturday and just appreciate your time. I'm really happy for you. I was excited to come on today. Because we didn't get to cross lines a lot at your previous spot and do anything together. I was trying to think of last night when I knew you were coming on. One of the last times I think we've seen each other, is it Oregon's Pro Day with like Mariotta? Yeah.

You know, like we have. I think it was a random pro day. Yeah. Yeah. So it's great to see you. It's great to talk to you again. You too. And be well.

Safe travel. Good to meet you, Steve. Nice meeting you too. You got to. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Halt.com. Call 1-888-8-8-9-7777 or visit CCPG.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.org or call 1-800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts.

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