The McShay Show - LIVE: Shedeur Sanders lands in Cleveland and other NFL Draft Reactions with Ryen Russillo | The McShay Show

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

Join Todd, Muench, and Russillo for their LIVE reactions to Shedeur Sanders being drafted by the Browns and other NFL Draft Reactions with Ryen Russillo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench and Ryen Russillo Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer, Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the McShea show presented by Fanduel. It's our time. It's officially NFL draft season, and you can get in on all the action with Fanduel. Fandul has lots of ways to bet on the draft, like pick position, team to draft a player, exact order, top five and ten picks, and so much more. When you win, you get paid instantly. Fandual always has exclusive offers. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use, so download Fandual Sportsbook app. today and make every moment more during the NFL draft.

The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-Help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available. And listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-help.com. Sometimes when you call a friend and you say, I need your help. you can't ask me what it is

you can never ask me later about it and we're probably going to hurt some people all the answer that you're looking for is whose car we're going to take and that's exactly what I did with Ryan Rassillo my good friend here I had no idea when I agree to this that it was the NBA playoffs

and he's been complaining ever since but he said yes and here we are and Ryan's wonderful home in Manhattan Beach day three of the draft I've spent it sitting on sets, sweating. I've spent it sitting on sets freezing, rain-soaked notes,

and now I get to sit here, ocean in the backdrop, amongst good friends, Ryan Rosillo's. Ments, would you get over here? All right. Good. I was worried.

Ment's a busy man. As we talked about yesterday, he's got the ESPN draft tracker. He's doing two jobs at once, and he'll love him for it. He's busy, busy guy. He'd pop it up in a second. And you know what?

He may be jumping in and out. We'll have him in the background. We can ease drop on him whole time. But here we are. Day three of the draft. And there's a lot to get to, a lot to get to. But you can't start this coverage with Shador Sanders being drafted just a handful of picks ago. We're in the fifth round still. He was drafted at 144 overall in the fifth round by the Cleveland Browns as the second quarterback they drafted. Your initial thoughts. Without the Dylan Gabriel pick, it actually makes a lot of sense because if you look at

their death chart, you're like, okay, Watson's probably on IR for another year. And I think there's an insurance money conversation about keeping them around on the IR as opposed to taking on more dead money, which is a different thing. You've got Flacco, you've got Pickett. So if that were the case, through all of this stuff that I know we'll get to, it felt like without the Gabriel pick, like, okay, this might actually work out. As disappointing as these two days have been. But the Gabriel pick at the third round, that concerns me now because it's like, well, what's the point? What are we doing here? Yeah, I mean, obviously it's a value play.

Like, okay, our grade on them despite all of this is way better than it being in the fifth round. So get back in there. I mean, clearly Cleveland passed them, what, six times, not even including some of the trades? So I would like it way more if they didn't pick Gabriel ahead of them, who I would still think I would have thought would be behind Sanders in the evaluations. He wasn't mine. I mean, he definitely wasn't mine. I mean, I thought Will Howard was ahead of him. I thought Quinn Ewers was ahead of, I'm talking about Gabriel now.

Right, yeah. A lot of guys are ahead of him. So the fact that, I mean, that pick really kind of stunned me more than anything else. That's kind of quietly hidden in all this or overlooked on this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. How do we take him so early? Like, why is it him?

Like, other guys that would have gotten, right? I said it to you last night. Like, Will Howard, like, their scheme is like a guy who can be accurate and smart. Well, Will Howard just killed it in the playoffs. with all of that stuff about managing an offense. Yep. Why not Will Howard? So then you take Gabriel and now you're going to have these two guys compete.

And I like throwing a lot of darts. Like if you want to fill a need or you want a quarterback, like take a bunch of quarterbacks if you want. Yeah. But the way they've done it, who they've done it with, like you can't tell me that with that pick where they got Gabriel, they couldn't have gotten a better player or a better quarterback. So that to me was a head scratcher.

It's all going to be about shit or I get it. But I don't get the pick for Gabriel. I should mention we're here for two hours. We appreciate you joining us, right? it's day three of the draft. This is for the diehards, and we know if you're watching right now, you're a diehard with us.

I'm tweeting this out to all my followers right now. Yeah. Get the crew good day. Menches Mafia. They're aware we're here, right? Yeah. So we're going to be here for two hours. Hopefully you want to hang with us

and have some fun. The fascinating part of all of this, and I'm not going to go on a long rant. If you're interested in my take on how it got to this point, and I went into a lot of it yesterday on our review show. when I was waiting for much to come into the room, when he was finishing up his duties,

in the very beginning of the review show yesterday, which you can find on YouTube, I went on a probably 30-minute rant. And to summarize it, it's all about a pool, right? And it's like any person who goes for a job interview. And there's 32 companies that you'd like to go work for, right? Automatically, about 12 to 15 of those companies are out because they have someone who's awesome at that job already,

that they're paying a lot of money. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hertz, like the list goes on and on, okay? The pool starts to shrink then, too, when you look at the skill set, and he's not the biggest, not the strongest arm, not the most mobile. And so there are some organizations, I talked to you about it for two months now. Brian Daubal wants someone more like Josh Allen. Jackson Dart fit perfectly. Talked about New Orleans, Kellan Moore. The Dart one, though, I think is like, anytime I hear this guy.

guy's a culture center. I'm like, you don't know that. That's total bullshit. Like, you have no one. Maybe Jackson Dart's awesome. You even go back to SC. The thing I love the most about Jackson Dart is that he did not care about his body. Like, you would have thought coaches would have had to pull him aside at some point and be like,

we love that this is in you. We love that you have the Thor face paint. But like, get out of bounds, man. Slide a little bit more. So maybe all those things are true. But I just, I guess I'm at a point. What's one of the biggest complaints about Josh Allen? Well, that he can't protect himself.

Yes. Right. Right, right. So maybe that's why he likes it. And why do his teammates love him? But a cop, a calm. Does that change the culture? Yeah, no, you're right.

So you're actually using my breakdown of him against me. I just, at an age now where I don't hear anything that ever feels unique, that it's all propaganda and that like every single interview is just, you know, hey, man, this guy's a real tone. I get so grumpy about it. Like, dude, there's how many guys? How many guys are in camp before we even get to the 53? Like, imagine a dude who's been in and out of league six years.

a risk paycheck is coming from. He's like, man, I was on the fence about this, but fucking Jackson Dart gets it. He's a tone center. It's just such an over, like it may be something down the road, but I just think first day in through the doors. Maybe I'm being way too critical. There's just too many quotes. The lead up to the draft and throughout the draft and all the stuff, I've read too much,

Todd. I've read too much. I didn't have a six minutes into the show or whatever it is. Going to be banging on Jackson Dark. Well, the problem is I've been watching the Jacksonville GM and I want to just absolutely like, I want to interview people about his interview. It's wild, right? Did you see it?

You should watch it if you haven't seen it now. It's crazy. You like Newsroom, right, from Sorkin? You'll love this guy, then. I mean, you hate him. You're not banging on Jackson Dart, though. It's the coverage, really. It's the reaction.

It's the way he's being covered, right? I just think it's asking a lot, because, I mean, if Jackson Dart were all of those things, and how does he not go in the top 10? Right. You love him so much. You didn't take him at 9. I think physically there's a ton of stuff about him that we really like.

I mean, give me your like cliff notes of why a Jackson Dart, if he's all of these things, why he's not going in the top 10. Why he doesn't go in the top 10 is there's concern he's coming from Lane Kiffin's offense. Right. And in that offense, there's not. Is this like a Baylor offense thing? No, it's not a Baylor offense thing. But there's elements of that kind of discussion and there's a lot of predetermines.

Lane Kiffin's an offensive I hate the word genius But he's fun to watch He's a step ahead And most people offensive There's too many people like you That know it way better than I do That watch the way he dials up a game

And goes this guy's at another level So he's at another level I never hear anything else And so what he does is he exploits College Defenses And specifically college defensive backs And gonna throw some concept But instead of having this big catalog of concepts

He's got kind of a tiny Catalogue, right? But what he does with that as motions, formations, shift. Like, all these different things to dial up kind of the same play and the same concepts. Like the sale concept. You see it's against Florida this year. Three times they were in it.

Right. To the left side. It's just a brutal game to use. But people think it is a brutal game. Okay. I thought it was his best game. Are you serious? It's not the best ending.

The three interceptions, two of which were counted, three interceptions at the end were his worst plays of his career. career. Yeah, I would say the Kentucky clothes. The problem is, if I look at the end of the Kentucky game, and then I compound that with the Florida game, and I don't even know, like, sometimes, you know, guys end the game by being too risky and you're like, well, at least I have that instead of a guy throwing short of sticks. So, you know, when I look at, when I look at Jackson, like, those were really disappointing endings, and it felt like they very much were on him as opposed to like, what else was he supposed to do, just to take some sort of chance. I don't know that that means that's

exactly who he's going to be the rest of the time, but you seem to think the Florida tape is like way better than maybe just a guy like me watching it at home. He makes some plays on that tape. He makes some, like, and in the, see, the thing with him as a runner is he doesn't run when he doesn't need to run. He runs in, he runs in situations and moments, situations where there's no other option. And look, I'd rather have tough than scared, which he certainly checks that box too, but. But what I love, so I, there's a lot to like about it. Okay, he does, ironically, like, there's more energy on his ball and, like, deep outs and those sorts of things. He doesn't drive it vertically great, but I watched 161 plays in his clip reel versus pressure.

The climbing, the instincts of feeling the pressure. With like Cam Ward and Shador Sanders, there was a lot of retreating. There was a lot of drifting. There was a lot of scrambling out right, left. With him, he's moving the offense forward. If there's trouble, he's advancing it. Okay. Okay.

And here's the part. Everyone said, well, I don't know how he processes. Lane Kiffin's offense, a lot of predeterminings, a lot of small catalog of concepts. But when the game's moving and the bullets are flying, I think he might process as fast as anyone in this class. And Brian Daibble, I don't know your thoughts on Brian Daibble. I know fans and people are like, well, he hasn't won, and Daniel Jones. We didn't pick Daniel Jones.

Right. And the best that Daniel Jones ever looked was the one season he actually was healthy, and he got the most out of him. I think Brian's in a short stack of coaches in terms of like offensive minds. He's one of like the Lane Kiffins we talk about in college. He's that at the NFL level. And so now he gets his guy. And Joe Shane, I give him credit.

He managed the draft, got his guy. The only pick he could have made at three is Abdul Carter. But then he sat back and said, I've got one uniquely qualified individual in this organization to make a decision on quarterback. And it's Brian. And Brian's telling him. me, we need Jackson Dart. And by the way, I don't know if we'll ever know for sure. I'm pretty sure the Rams were going to take him at 26. No kidding. Really? And that's why they want,

and I think they were very much concerned. And it turned out it wasn't a race against Mickey Loomis and the New Orleans Saints from 40 on up and they did this game of chicken. It was, we're getting intel at 26, Les Sneed, McVeigh, they could bring him in. They like him a lot. we better get up ahead of them, and that's why they moved up to 25 with Houston to make that pick. Time out. Gladstone's talking about the pyramids right now. All right, so give me, you guys have both. I'm going to sit back.

I want to listen. Give me the cliff notes. I gave you the cliff notes on DART. I want the cliff notes. What's going on? Really quickly, I heard him for 20 seconds. And it's part of it, the way he kind of the look and the vibe he gives off. It's massive ageism.

It's the tone. It's the tone and the, and like, not for, you know, it's good to be confident, I guess. The confidence is a little odd. I'm all for the confidence. Again, I'd rather, we talk about Jackson Dard. I'd rather. I'd rather have confident than not confident, especially when you're talking about people who have to take this much criticism and have these jobs.

But I just feel like Gladstone went in there and said a million like tech bro desk things. And they were like, this guy's a genius. He's a philosopher. He's with the Rams. So the Rams would know far better than I would. You would think that ownership there would call Rams ownership and be like, tell us about this guy. But he's a thing right now. He's a thing right now because he used ecosystem.

He said, in this space. He said tangibly rich people. I mean, it was just, I mean, and then he did some speech when he had Travis Hunter next to him. I heard that was actually pretty moving, except it was also felt like really bullshity, where he was like, he provides belief. So it's just a lot of stuff where I'm like. He started off with like, when I think about this game and I'm like, dude, you're so young. You're like, how does your perspective like this?

Calm down. That just made me think he killed the interview. Like, I had a roommate like this once. Okay. Everybody loved him immediately. And I was like, I don't know. Something might be off. But I think that might be the past.

Some of those roommates like, dude, I thought we were good. We're always the last to come around on somebody. Right? Right. And then it's even worse when somebody is like actually deserving of praise. Yes. Oh, I can't even dump on this guy because he deserves it. So maybe that's the case here.

I don't want to sound like, I already did this on the pod with Breer. on Friday because I was like I feel like a dick making fun of some of these quotes but like he hit us with everything I mean he hits with everything and it just and then he came back the next day so I imagine they're probably having a lot of fun of it right now

Chad GBT he's like a hotter well that's that's why I love hang it's why I it's good to have you around you kind of keep give me that angle I'm all like I'm way more like this Marissa does that for me like there's like I like blind spots

to some of this stuff. I'm like, yeah, Belichick's dating a young girl, like, who's, I'm not shocked, but like, you know, it's always interesting. She's a, but the thing,

I think, so, I mean, she's on the field. Yeah. Feels like HR thing. Oh, yeah, she's on the field. And you better, she better be included in emails. It's interesting to me, too.

Yeah, you got the best player in the draft, arguably, one of the top two players. Doesn't, that's a lot to give away. Right, but isn't, isn't there a part of this? because, like, what were we all saying about Travis?

You're like, I hope he goes somewhere where they let him be him. If there's anything that we've learned, at least, as much as we're having fun with some of the quotes, because I am, I'm never going to stop. It's great. It's entertaining. It sounds like you are, you are. But he's going to a place that fully wants to embrace the Travis Hunter experience. So, like, we may get to see something we've been told for decades we don't get to see. Right. And I'm not sure it happened in Cleveland.

I'm not sure they would have done it the same way. And I'll be honest, is there a play, is there a single player in this draft that would give them a better shot, the Jaguars, that is, of getting in prime time more than, and I'm not saying that's why they did it. His tape speaks for itself. I love a ton of dudes on that defense, too. Trevor Lawrence can finally get back to, like, you know, the NFL, it's weird, is you can feel like you're so far away, and it has a couple things click.

Like, granted, your franchise quarterback playing to the level that we think we've seen. Right. That would solve a lot of their problems. It swings, man. Well, this started with Shador, and it took a couple of rights and lefts. Do you want to do the big Shador thing? No, we have to do it at some point. I mean, I don't know if we close with it or not.

I mean, obviously, we all have thoughts. Well, you're better laying out shows and stuff. So what do you say, producer-director? Oh, this is your show, so I'm sorry. I think this. I think this has been humbling for Shador Sanders. I feel humble. I don't even know him.

Right. I think that... Has it been humbling? Yeah, I guess that's a good question. It should be humbling. It would be humbling for you or I or you. you. And I'm not, like, listen, I'm not in the business of saying that he needs to be humbled. I don't think that's true either. I agree with you on that. Like, who am I to say he needs to be

humble? All I care about, I've said this, I don't know, since January, there's one place and one coach I want to see him go play for it. It's Kevin Stafansy. So Kevin Stifansky, remember, you know, he's never needed to work with a big arm, mobile quarterback, right? And you go back, was it, is it Case Keenham? Case Keenham, they won 11 games. Kurt Cousins, they won 10 games. These are not big, mobile, strong-armed guys. And that system, it's about fast processing, right, fast processing, precision, accuracy, leading receivers, yards after catch, all those things.

It's the perfect fit. So, yeah, it's weird, but you know, it's weird that Dylan Gabriel gets drafted before him. but you know what that does? Like there's all the, you're not drafting just Shador. It's just like Tim Tebow. You're not just drafting Tim Tebow. You're drafting everything.

They comes. The cameras, the media attention. The handlers. The different things that you normally don't get with a backup quarterback. And so now it's like, like Shador now, like we can't, we can't adhere to that request.

We can't, like you're just in line with everybody else. And like, yeah, his availability media, yeah, like when Dylan's available, he'll be available.

Just like, so I think from an organizational standpoint, drafting him where they did, especially in Cleveland, as the second quarterback they drafted, and probably comes in fourth on their depth chart, there's like a, you're like everybody else.

And it's not even to Shadour as much as it is to everything that comes with Shadour. All right, let me start by asking you guys this question. How do the mocks fuck it up this bad? I didn't have them in the first. Did you have, I mean, if you had to do the seventh round mock that you did for this. I did, I did 10 picks.

I did 10 picks in the second round, didn't have him there. I would have put him at 83. Here's the deal. I would not have put him at 83 had I done a seven-round mock the night before the draft. I would have put him at Cleveland with one of those two picks they had early in the second. They had the first and fourth pick in the second round. I would have put him there, okay? Right.

By the way, the number of times Cleveland, I'll just repeat it, the number of times that they've passed on him, this is not the same thing, okay? But when Baltimore took all these victory laps about like we saw it, Lamar, it's like he actually traded out of the pick three times when he traded back in. So good for you trading back in and getting Lamar at the end of the first round. But, I mean, if you really thought he was the man,

you would have taken him at 16, you would have taken me to the early 20s, and they took a tight end at 25. This happens all the time with theirs. So, you know, I'm not making any sort of comparison of Lamarmer, Mar and Shador, but I almost feel like Cleveland just got to a point. It was like, okay, this is ridiculous. Like, our grade on him is this, even if we were.

Because I think a lot of people were coming in going, all right, he'll go 33rd. He'll be the first pick of the second round. And then again, when Brewer was on the pot, he's like, I don't think that's happening tonight. And he goes, and if it doesn't happen tonight, he's like, I think he could be in for, like, a really long weekend. And then here we are. So I want to ask, can you ever remember somebody being mocked?

Like, you could say, all right, night before if I were updating the mock, I would have had him in the first. I maybe don't even have them. You just said 83. But, I mean, we're talking about somebody who went in the fifth round. Other than a medical, how does this happen? And I said this yesterday. That's why it's so important. This wasn't, 144 is where he's drafted. And that'll be the number for Sodor. In terms of like chip on his shoulder, just like $199 was for Brady. 144 was going to be his number. Right. But how about that? Brady being his guy in passing on him, I think what eight times? Eight times, wasn't it? I mean, again, the, We look back on this

and we say Brady he's his guy Was Brady ever his guy? I mean, I don't know. Well, here's not enough of his guy He gets to take a quarterback. He didn't grade. Right.

I'm sorry, I jumped you there. No, I just, no one else wanted to talk about it. That was the shocking thing to me. And I get that networks have coverage. There's pro days. There's Colorado showcases. There's,

there's Colorado games, there's commercials, there's all these things. But I'm not the information guy. Right? I talk to people. I get information. I,

purposely when I have information, I don't even bring it up because I, like, I stay in my lane. But shouldn't you have better information then? If you're not, like, they're not threatened by you being a reporter. Maybe, maybe. And just relationships, friends, but two friends of mine in the league who were in those rooms, which means they're like, they're part of the decision-making group for interviews at the combine. And I'm having lunch with one guy, and then I talk to another guy. And they're both like, and they, I didn't ask anything about Shador.

they weren't even sitting there bashing them it was just like yeah we and it was like the 10th guy maybe we talked about it was like yeah Shador didn't really care what we thought of them

they were like it was weird it was so different than all so I don't know people come out after like how dare you well no but that's why eventually because I'm looking I'm looking to see

all the information people and who is it because I'm not the only one getting this information I was shocked by that so I came out after the combine and I was like listen I don't know

it's already a shrunken pool of places to go because of the starters that are in the league because of the scheme because of his traits it's already a shrunken pool and you get six teams drafting in the top 10 and these were two teams in the top 10 that needed quarterbacks at the time and so now you've just done that to it so and then there's reports of how things went with brian dable and the giant so like now you're like so it got to a point where and so my whole point in this is The evaluation for almost across the board in the league, the highest one was, yeah, maybe there are some people in the Giants building reportedly

who wanted to take him at three. So it's three. The most of the league was like middle, late first, and some people who didn't like him were like, yeah, second round. So it sounds like he was just losing a million ties, and then the more it kept going, like, if this happens in other drafts and it's a less like a lower profile player, you're starting to go, okay, does this guy have a knee thing that we don't?

don't know about. It's not that. I was trying to think a position player may have fell, but think about the quarterbacks of the fall and the big falls, Brady Quinn, Aaron Rogers. Would they go in the 20s? Yes. So they went from top. And Rogers fell too.

I mean, in the 20s. With the first round, we knew if New Orleans didn't take him at 9, then it was like he's in trouble if somebody doesn't trade back in. But it did feel like. And like that was the thing with Rogers and drove me crazy during that draft. It's like, okay, we don't have to go to him after every single team that doesn't need a quarterback. So brutal.

Yeah. He wasn't going there. Again, unless there's a trade, he wasn't going there. But again, it's a TV show, so it sort of plays out that way. I don't know what the lesson would this would be. Because I saw, or I guess I would say, I've seen a lot of really good arguments, and I'll use two different things, Breer and then Jeff Darlington at ESPN, where Breer was like, look, with backups, there comes a point where you go,

I need you to be this way to accept being a backup. And there's nothing about you to, or our assumption would be like, I don't really know that he's going to be that guy if you look at the way that they handle the pre-draft process. And by the way, Dion must have almost zero juice when it comes to information in the NFL. They did this on their own. You can criticize it, I think, fairly now, and go, how could you not have any contact with anybody that matter? Maybe this is where an agent actually helps you. Maybe an agent actually gets you draft a little bit higher with this stuff.

It's like, you're just sitting there throwing a party and decking out your home. and you have no intel whatsoever that this is potentially on the table? We were doing a show and I said the winds are shifting, aren't they? Because remember like October, November? It was, we didn't have to speculate. I thought we would have to speculate that Dion was going to, like, behind, like do backdoors, Eli Manning. Manning.

Well, he just started saying it. He came out on shows. He's out on shows like saying there's some certain organizations that can't draft my son. Then all of a sudden I think it was, it was happening. after the combine and some, you know, people were starting to realize, like, things didn't go well there. And all of a sudden it was like, yeah, we're happy with it. We like, I've approved all the teams in the top ten. Yeah, it's like, oh.

Good, didn't know. And I remember I came on the show and I was like, boy, the winds have shifted a little, huh? Yeah. So it's, and I think he started to realize, oh, I don't, like, sometimes you get the hammer. Yeah, right. And you get to drop it. And sometimes you just don't have the hammer. and I think he realized that they were more the nail on this situation.

Yeah, and we didn't even have to, like, speculate on it. Like you just said, they shared enough throughout the process. You guys think you're in control of this thing. And time and time again, it's like the evaluation does not allow you to do this. And, you know, we can talk about the backup part of it is who do you want. You want somebody. Look, the NFL locker room does not want free thinkers, okay? And if you're not a stud, you're not allowed to, like, necessarily be one of those guys.

I imagine, you know, Cam Newton's even talked about, like, I have, I mean, he said it. And I don't know the word for word quote, but it was pretty amazing. He's like, my aura is like at max, so therefore no one even wants to bring me into a locker room. And he wasn't wrong. The Tebow stop in Philadelphia was littered with just bullshit where you're like, dude, you might not make the team, okay? Right. Like, I know you were really famous, but this is kind of a pain in the ass. And so I can see for some teams, that being the assumption, but then again, that was kind of the beer point.

The darling point was like, all right, I mean, talent is talent and whatever the grade is. And we've seen plenty of teams when they even have a quarterback in place. I mean, that was always the Belichick thing. He takes Kevin O'Connell early when Brady's like 31. Yeah. And you're going, what are you doing? They take Oropolo where they take Oropo. And again, Belichick was always somebody that was trying to go against conventional wisdom.

But it feels like Shador pays. a very clear price for the way they handled it, the mis-evaluation of where they were at, the pre-draft stuff. We've yet to hear like a good story from all of it. Whatever that price is, a fifth round pick today feels like an excessive price to pay. Yes, I totally agree. I wanted to bring it back. Punishment doesn't fit the crap. I think there are two things are important to note. And I think it's a good lesson to any quarterback who's ever going to go through this process. And honest goodness, like it's a good lesson in life. Dylan Gabriel, Yeah.

And I'm not here, like, this is, the McShay show is in a life lesson place, usually, a little bit. Occasionally. Read some emails. Dylan Gabriel was attacked it and was awesome. Like, everyone I talked to, A-plus interviews. Don't know if he's big enough, don't know, this, that, and, like, just an awesome, and would be great in the quarterback room.

And I think, like, I watched some of these shows and the coverage. And the thing that's missing, no one's talking about, if he ain't going to be a starter, If you're not looking at him and saying he's absolutely a starter, and that guy gets drafted in the top 10. If he's not going to be a starter, his most valuable role in this organization is to be productive and helpful in the QB room, period. Taking notes, doing research assignments. Yeah, this feels like the Chase Daniel thing where it's like, I know who I am and who I'm not, but if I just do this right, I can probably stick around for a long time. And Dylan sold himself in job interviews as that guy. Shador obviously wasn't going in with the mindset of I want to be a backup and he shouldn't have.

But a lot of people left the room being like, okay, if we don't view him as a starter, a definitive starter, then what his role is going to be as backup, is he going to handle that? How is he going to handle that? And is he going to come with a lot of attention and a lot of like GM's got enough on their plate? You've talked to coaches. A coach's got enough on their plate. They don't want to have to be dealing with the backup quarterback's stuff. And so that's what led to all this.

But then the positive is, at the end of the day, the human being, the human being has been humbled. This has been a shocking experience for him. But at the end of the day, he's in the national football league. He's a Cleveland Brown. Yes, he may be fourth on the depth chart. Yes, he got drafted after Dylan Gabriel. I promise you this. He'll get every opportunity to beat out Gabriel.

I can also promise you this. If he goes in with the right attitude and it takes the chip on his shoulder, pick one, four, and attacks this process, he's going to beat out Dylan Gabriel because he's just better. And this is the perfect system for him, whether he's ever the starter in Cleveland or not, who knows?

But it's a perfect system to showcase in training camp this year. If he gets a shot to play, and an opportunity arises somewhere else, they will get the best out of Shador. And if they start with the O'Line, like they had injuries last year, Shador's your guy.

Because he doesn't hurt him. He's used to it. Yeah. I'll make a clumsy attempt here to tie this to the NBA. and you'll know better than me about this. But I read, maybe you said it, I heard it from someone, guys go down to the G League,

and they try to figure out how to score 40 points a game and what they should be doing when they go down there. And I think this ties in a little bit, is what role does their team need? Like, is it a defender? What do they need to do for their team? That's how you make the NBA team. And now Shador is in the sense of,

he thinks he's a guy that's going to come in throw for 400 yards and four touchdowns every game, and they need a guy who's going to come in and help their starter get ready and maybe develop. And if you don't know what you're role, is and teams are set up that way, know your role, then maybe they're not as excited about bringing them in. Yeah, I also worry, it's kind of like the Jackson Dark conversation where all of those

things may work out. I'm with you, Todd. I think Daibald's rep among football people is pretty solid, and I feel like that's probably underselling it a bit. I mean, if Saban's bringing you in and then raving about you after you're gone, then that's probably a pretty good sign. But, man, like, James thinks he should be a starter somewhere. Wilson thinks they all did be a statue of them somewhere

He's your favorite yeah Alright I gotta go get a guy See him, man Yeah, first one What just happened? The Alabama The Alabama tight end Went ahead of DePree by the way

I feel like I'm not prepped on what's not happening Oots? Oots! Yep You didn't write up Oots? Nope Robbie Oots! He's in there but Not ridden up. They didn't use them a lot He's a big tight end, great blocker Yeah Maybe it's like a

personal brand thing, like his own clothing line or something with Sanders that turned people off? Huh? Just speculating. I think we nailed it. I think we did too. Let's, let's, uh, whatever you want to do, man. I'm excited.

I want to go to some other teams that have picked well, that are intriguing to me. Let's actually stay there with Cleveland. Tess Johnson's still available. Yeah, that's your guy. You love the ducks. Cleveland. While we're on the subject.

moving back. Get a first-round pick next. What's interesting about both quarterbacks. Forget the Shador top. What a second changed positions in the fourth and a first next year to move back to? Yep. A first next year signaled to me,

there's Garrett Nussmeyer, there's Eleanor Sellers, South Carolina. I like Sellers. Do you think Sellers is a pro already? I think he's getting there. I think he's escalating. I think the best version of him is awesome. and he's such a freak too

Let's give him another year starting I can't wait I look South Carolina I get to TV every week at this house Cam Ward was a fifth round pick coming in this year number one overall I think that

I think he's on that That's the NFL NBA thing That always like blows my mind Tell me There would just be never Like there's no scenario where a guy would be Yeah he's the 70th best NBA prospect

So outside of the only two rounds And then the next year he's a first overall pick Like your very variance on what quarterbacks can or can't be year to year with the, and it speaks to again. Jane and Daniels, too, so it's not like a failed system. It's almost like officiating, okay? People get mad about officiating in all sports. I accept that officiating will forever be flawed.

You know what? I'm going to live longer because of it. I'm not going to get mad. You look like it. Right. There's philosophical things about officiating that I don't necessarily love. But like sometimes in life you just have to accept that things are incredibly flawed. In evaluating the quarterback, I don't believe that there's this magic.

island of great evaluators that haven't been, you know, allowed to speak their mind. Because everybody thinks you guys are morons and every time you get this wrong. But I would say the basketball, football part of it that is always shocking to me is that you can have like a Matt Barkley be a top 10 pick or the number one overall pick. And then one season later, he's a fourth round pick. And so, you know, Cam Ward is just another example of this. Joe Burrow is an example of it. Jaden Daniels is an example of it.

Joe Burrow and Jaden is what's really funny about those dudes is their first years. at LSU, you're like, okay, maybe. Like, at least they have a guy, and then they end up being the number one overall, well, of course, Jayden's case, the number two pick. A lot of people apparently want to talk about your shorts. And I feel like it's a subject that needs to be addressed. I think you look great. It was a leg day yesterday.

I mean, you look great, but I think we would be remiss if we didn't talk back to the people. They started riding up a bit. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what to tell you. You know, it's funny how many people that comment on how I look. At least you're wearing socks today, right? They've never sat down.

Yeah, right. Right. So, you know, just shout out to you guys for being on your feet all the time. But yeah, no, my shorts are always a, you know, look, man. And we get quads like that, man. What am I supposed to do? The shorts have nowhere to go. Yeah.

Nowhere to go, but up. I'm in my house, by the way. too. And by the way, we invaded it. My man went to fish last night. He's got four NBA playoff games tonight. He's been kind enough. We've got, we can't turn the camera. I was turning down ketamine all night because I knew how long of a day this was going to be. Well, and for that, we appreciate you, my man. Tweedzer without ketamine. You know how hard that is? They played TV news last night? Yeah, reprised. Mench hasn't been interested in anything that's come out of this for five rounds.

I was walking up to the Hollywood Bowl. He's going to the Hollywood Bowl to see fish tomorrow night. Are you really? All right. I'm thinking of going. I love that you're doing that. It's the best venue. It's so great.

And my favorite part of the night, there's many highs, pun. Somebody walks by, is like, Riscilla, are we going to get that Piper tonight? And Piper we did get. So I was happy about it. Do you like Jam Bands, Todd? Not my thing. My good friend Meredith Katz has been working on me my whole life. She's going tonight.

So I've been around it I don't mind some I love all music You were in Virginia I would have thought you'd have some access to it Yeah Let me get back to the draft I'm sorry

The shorts just derailed it Sorry I don't even remember What we were talking about Let's let me give you something That I want to talk about All right let's roll I knew you know

Each year it's like Hey the 15th pick is really this Or like the fifth pick Is like the 15th pick I love that kind of stuff right It was all sort of arbitrary and some years you think these terrible drafts end up being really good. But I loved this second round.

Like, I'm watching the first round here the other night, and then I'm looking at the best available stuff. And I'm like, I just, I mean, whether it's even worry, our dude, Nick from South Carolina, Luther Burden, who I do think is a guy that can at least stretch the field. Debo Samuel, Comps, yep. Yeah, I mean, he's a little smaller. I love Alfred Collins. I felt like he was always showing up.

As Araku, Ferguson, the tight end stuff here, you go, Mason, Taylor Ferguson. I was even wondering, as a Bears fan, should the Bears have gone Jalen Walker and then gone, we're going to get one of these other tight ends. We're going to have our pick of Ferguson, who, by the way, is kind of a freak athletically.

Taylor at LSU, I'm biased in that. I felt like they sort of got away from him over the course of his career there. I think he should have been a... And drag routes and flat routes, and like, that's kind of... And he's like, kind of a motherfucker too, you know, like when they needed something.

Yep. Clutch moments always showed up. Granted, they've been stacked at receiver, so, like, you know, the balance wasn't going to be there for him at tight end. Sell me on Loveland and then doing something different as opposed to, I like Jalen Walker better than Mikhail Williams.

I could be entirely wrong about it. I know it's a size thing. Watching Georgia games, I felt like Walker was just a little bit more that I liked. Did the Bears make a mistake, not going Walker, and then one of the second round tight ends? I don't think they made a mistake.

So Loveland really is that, huh? I've thought it's pretty neck and neck between Warren and Loveland. And honestly, it took me going back and really studying the tape because the quarterback play was atrocious this year. Yeah. Watching him actually separate, like, it didn't matter where the ball went or how. There's just a little more juice to him than Tyler, huh? And then I think about.

On the route stuff. You think about Ben Johnson and what he had in Detroit. And now you start talking about weapons. And, like, how does Loveland compare to La Porta? pretty fairly. I think that's actually the compa I gave him

in my evaluations like a little bit leaner, a little bit leaner, a little bit. Lublin's huge too. Loveland's 6'5 and change. But he's not like crazy fast. I think Taylor ended up running

like a 4-6-5 and Leblum was a 4-7. I actually know that's true because I looked it up today. I'm glad you did. But you think about how he can be used in Ben Johnson's offense. And then they bring in Luther Berden, who was like, screen game, reverses. Like, he can't develop into a good route runner, intermediates and all that.

So that's the knock on burden now? Because when burden got loose, it felt like, you know, I just like when I'm watching, going, okay, that guy looks a little different. And Luther's had a lot of those moments of his own. 100%. And so now, now you're looking at, they're not, Jameson, Jameson Williams is, did more of a vertical down the field route runner, but you're talking about speed on the edge.

And that's what Ben Johnson had. They bring in three offensive linemen in Chicago, veteran guys to protect the middle. Now you bring in Luther Burden. Now you bring in Ozzie Tripillo, who can now compete with those offensive tackles of right tackle or kick him inside to guard, create a youth movement behind the older guys you brought in. Samar Turner is a really good three technique. They got in the, what pick was it? God, I thought I even wrote him down.

I think he's the third. But I just like what they did. I look at that Detroit offense and the creativity that Ben Johnson has, right? But in order to utilize it, like the guys in the lab always need space players. They always need guys who are. So the argument for Loveland is that he's better in space than Warren is. I don't know necessarily after the catch as much as he is just separating getting open. And I've got a quarterback who's young who needs security blankets,

but he's got juice to him, and yes, he is good after the catch. Warren's different good after the catch. Warren's Grunk after the catch. You know what I mean? He's the closest thing to Grunk that I think has come out in the NFL draft since. But I understand why they pass because they're looking. Ben Johnson wants speed. They want guys who can separate.

They want guys they can create and just more to their game, you know? I'm going to ask you about a couple fourth round picks. So when Pittsburgh was on the clock with the 21st pick in the fourth round, you're like, okay, maybe they do it here. Because I think if there's one thing that we all trust with Tomlin is whatever the distractions are. Like I used to be at times on the fence about Tomlin, and then once I learned more about all the bullshit that he was dealing with all the personalities of that team, I was like, this guy might just be coach of the year every single year. He's amazing. He's ridiculous.

So you would have thought like he's better equipped to deal with whatever other teams are concerned about bringing Sanders into a little. perfectly equipped. Yeah. So then he takes Jack Sawyer. Yeah. Who all I would need to see from Jack Sawyer's tape was him getting super mad about the Michigan flag. I personally think that...

Captain Jack. Yeah. When people turn it into, well, you just get your ass kicked. So what are you supposed to do? Let you burn down my house because we lost. Right. Like, granted, that was a horrible loss, embarrassing loss. He was great in the game.

He was incredible on that play against Texas to clinch that playoff game. So Sawyer, how does somebody like... him go. Are we just talking measurables? We're talking lack of sideline to sideline stuff with him lasting that long. Yeah, it's part measurable. It's part, I don't know that, that his traits in terms of like suddenness as a pass rusher and those sorts of things. And honestly, God, like, have you looked at this edge class? It's so, I mean, I can't believe how many guys I've liked and it keeps going. Like another dude who, here, a couple picks later, our guy from South Carolina another game caught Kyle Karnark arm length the whole deal how's he

going the fourth round but because we had Abdul Carter Mikel Williams was something mentioned how about about Admiral Carter asking LT for 56 like hey dude can you pay property taxes in New York first before we start asking for the fucking that caught me off guard too that was like Moore gave one to a Cam Ward you see that these dudes need to stop asking yes yeah I don't like it no I don't like like what's the whole fucking point. Like, we're retiring this stuff. Right.

I was always in the mind, like, make your own number. Segment idea. Did Shador Sanders having his number retired this quickly devalue the retiring of numbers, therefore this generation asked don't retire them. Tuesday spot? I have, is it, did you ever get his number retired a little over too? Segment idea. Sidebar.

Table this. Pre-show me. How often do you walk around as a bachelor in this beautiful pad? And just something comes up and you're like, segment idea. Constantly. Yeah. I'm whiteboarded all the time. Yeah.

No. I think that could be a show just called segment ideas. Yeah. It wouldn't be a great show. I don't know they would pick it up. When part of my tape came to visit and tape a show, I purposely put up an entire whiteboard of a plot of like the worst movie ever. And I just was sitting there.

And I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever done like 30 minutes. You just left it up. Did you know? No, it wasn't a real movie that I was writing. But I was like, what would the notes be for the dumbest? fucking idea for a movie you could ever make. And then I had like the lines through it and I was like and then

he time travels, then realizes that he is the father. What was their response? They didn't. Even those guys, right. Even those guys because I think PFT was like, I looked at a few things and it was so bad. I didn't know what to say.

But it didn't really, it didn't really land because I thought they were going to make fun of it because a lot of their humor can be a little sophomoric. Yeah. No. They're watching. They promised they were going to watch actually today.

I talked to him the other day. That's okay. Big Cat doesn't make one of anybody. No, exactly. Ooh, the dolphins. What about them? The feeder? Probably not.

This is why every day three should be here. Just listen to these takes and your reactions. Yeah, Bears. So, Knaar. Yeah, Knaar, me. I think, derailed it. That's right. Abdul Carter, Mikel, Wiliam, Schmar, Stuart,

James Pierce all first round. Right. Second round, Eziraku, who had 1.38 sacks per game, led the FBSS last year. Tuimolalao.

Nick Scorton. Scorton. Femmy Oladay. Scorton's on my list. These are all second round. He shows up on tape. And he does show up on tape. Thank you.

And Mike Green. And Mike Green. Was productive than Purdue, too. Right. Then Mike Green, three star wide receiver. Crazy upside. Obviously some off the field stuff, too.

Was he a three star wide receiver coming in high school? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Look at that. That's where I come here. This is even my main sport. Ashton Galati, Landon Jackson,

Princely Uman-Mielan, Jordan Birch, Josiah Stewart. Jordan Birch. I'd say, you know, I like the motor to be engaged a little bit more with him. I love Jordan Birch. It's not my guy. He doesn't like him either. I like the high end of it, but I thought there's a few times.

I'm like, is he out today? But in the third round to Arizona, like, is that plugged in? My point is everyone's getting value at these. at these edge. This was the year. Kyle Kinnard, you just said,

fourth round. That seems insane. Going to the Chargers. It's the depth. Oh, my guy went. Tyrion and Green Dawkins. First pick of the fifth, right? Do you ever, when you watch an NBA,

NBA prospects? Do you ever watch NBA prospects? And you're like, wait, this guy is more talented than everyone. But he doesn't know what he's doing at all. Yeah, that's like that Tampa Bay Bucks edge guy, Smith, number nine, who I keep holding out hope for.

Really? Yeah. am I wrong on that? Who? I don't know. I'm out of season, so I'm going to mispronounce his name right now. Is it Shanklin? No.

Oh, for the Washington, from Washington? All right, I'll look it up here. I mean, this is super embarrassing because I should know, but again, it's almost May. Angham Dawkins, though. No, this is so stupid that I don't have this off the top of my head because he actually does play. Or he's not on the team anymore. No, he's gone. Is it Shankachian or whatever?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Smith. Yeah. I like him too. I like him from him from. He came out of Washington. Yeah, I like the tough, strong. So your guy went.

Tyrion Ingram Dawkins to the Vikings. I'm telling you, if they can coach him up and get the most out of him. How many snaps did he have with Georgia behind all those other guys? You got a snap count? Everyone eats. He was playing. He was playing, and he was tossing guys around. This is like the Matt Castle pick.

Like, the only reason he's not going higher is he didn't get to, I don't know. Because all the other dudes. You're telling me this is the guy. 65-276. Look what Mensch said. I'm a tire. Hybrid. Defensive end, three-man front. Defensive tackle, four-man front.

Mentsch just did this? Edg Center, yeah. Oh, no. I did that earlier. God, I'm doing a lot. Thanks, man. That's why he keeps racing over to that table. I thought he had a sandwich.

Try not to say that personally. Okay, but let's stay at the edge guys. You've got Brayden Swinson, LSU going this late, too. Yeah, that's late. I had like a third on him. He's good. He and Whitelichs are the best defensive players. He didn't run so he doesn't get that.

He was awesome. But he chanced around. I know he's 23 in July, but now what's the story? We don't have a 40 time on that guy? What is it? I don't think he ever ran. I know he didn't run. That's usually a good sign.

I mean, no combine. The best running back in the SEC just got drafted. You got to know who I'm talking about. Dylan Samson? Nope. No, he already went. From Ole Miss. Junkins, Trans,

for? Jay Jeece. Jekine's. Jekine's went. Oh, yeah. J.J. Figuis. I watched his family shoot hoops in their driveway, and I was like, I'm all in. His whole family was just... It's so awesome. They were like in the middle of nowhere

where. It was like dad's house. But where's you watch this? Online. On coverage? Where do you watch? I was doing that. That was just a day off. That wasn't even prep. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

So try and show you unka is now on Cleveland, and I don't know why I was calling him Smith. I knew it was, too, though. Yeah, he's 45. We're still holding out hope. Five years in, four years in, this will be his fifth year. I felt like his rookie year was his best year. You would be accurate. Yes?

Well, I don't know. I just fell for the sack number. That's not the way to do the job. Cam Morgan will be the guy? I defer to you guys, so I'd rather watch YouTube guys battle it out. We get caught up in this where he would be last year, right? But that's, I think that's a mistake. And he's what, behind four?

Fine, three. He's not behind McCarthy, I don't. McCarthy is my fourth. Penice was my fifth and then Nick's was my sixth. So I would have had him ahead of McCarthy. But a lot of years, he would have been won. You know what he mean? Like last year was just different.

Those three were insane. I don't know how, because I hear some people sometimes in and out of the NFL, actually, in, including. Be like, I just don't, you know, that's an awful big. jump. He's a fifth rounder. And then I'm like, yeah, but like, Jaden Daniels is doing all right. Jayden Daniels has a fifth round grade in 2022. Came back in 2023. What was Baker? I mean, Baker was, I know that we're talking about the late jump, but going into that year, he wasn't. There's, there's been a lot of guys. And it speaks, and that goes

back to your conversation before. In the NBA, it's a, it's a lot of one-on-one. It's an individual, There's never a guy that's projected to be the number one pick that's like completely off the radar. Right, I understand it. But you're reliant on 10 other human beings in that, and then the system and the scheme and all that stuff. That's why it's also the hardest position maybe in sports, but definitely in football to evaluate. And that's why, that's part of the reason. It's easily the hardest thing in sports. What is even close to being as hard as that?

Baseball, no. All the analytics for that, I guess. Yeah, but I think baseball, it's this one-on-one controlled. environment. I mean, you can be unlucky with something that happens defensively, but you're not going to be unlucky for 162 games. It all evens out drives. Yeah. That's true. My personal thing is always, like, if we evaluated basketball players the way we evaluate quarterback sometimes, we would think that, like, Stromile Swift would be one of the greatest players of all time as we stay in this LSU theme. As New England turns into

Baton Rouge North. I don't know who that is. Do you know who that is? Kyle McCord. No, Stromwell Swift. Stromaw Swift. He played for LSU. He was a top five pick. And his dunk, his highlights were like, If I'm upset, having a bad day, I'll watch his dunks. And I'm going right back, right.

Okay. But he just wasn't good at kind of the basketball part, right? Which is a huge problem. That ends up being a huge problem. It's kind of like my guy, Teryon, right now. I'm hoping the best. Right. See how you do that?

That was good. That was very good. So what I would say with quarterbacks is like how many times we watch for fucking Pro Day where he throws against nobody and the receiver runs underneath the post? I'm going to try to keep my composure. Right. So, oh wow. Two balls hit the ground. Well, okay.

Like, I think I can't even throw football anymore. I don't even know, like, if I had to throw to one other person, I would hope not that many balls hit the ground. So the Pro Day thing is stupid. The arm speed thing is stupid. the look at his mechanics inside the pocket when most of the throws are off schedule so we're evaluating the perfect climate, the perfect situation of like these throws.

It's like, yeah, except you don't get to do any of those things. So we're asking your guy to process. But they do chasing around the little stick and make it move around a little bit. I just think the things that we still in 2025 are emphasizing as important attributes have nothing to do of whether or not the guy's going to be successful on third and seven and being like, oh shit, I screwed his protection and now I've got to be in my third read.

And can you still be? accurate in chaos. Can you be accurate? Like, we have not figured out what translates or what has to happen unless a guy is completely off the charts or somebody we think is absolutely terrible. And so arm strength, accuracy, like, you know, not to bring it back to Sanders, but you are the ultimate fraud in telling on yourself when you start throwing Shador Sanders' accuracy around because of his completion percentage when all these throws were at or behind the line of scrimmage. Right. Completion percentage used to be one of my go-toes. Like, man, 61% in this system

like that's pretty good I don't adjust too like what's your average depth of target and all this stuff dude if you're not at like 75 and then I'm like what are you guys doing throwing bubble screens

a whole fun of the game so I'm I'm tabling it to you guys to get back to like do you think we'll actually be at a point where someone will go I don't care what his arm strength is I don't care what his pro day look like I don't care

maybe you guys are already doing it but it doesn't seem to be the thing that plays the pro day is the pro day has been nuts the quarterback's at pro day is built for television I was like, Give me a bad pro day.

Is there one? Teddy Bridgewater. Oh, wow. You guys both said at the same time. I was there watching him like. I love Teddy. Love Teddy coming out. Yeah, honestly, Teddy like, putting on a glove, taking off a glove.

He was like good. Up until he was hurt. It was Bortles Mansell and Teddy that year. Sure. And none of them turned out to be great, but Teddy was the best of the three by far. Yeah. Was that Manzell that year too? I'm pretty sure that was the year.

Did you guys do Manzels pro day? Oh, yeah. with the former president or president, and the shoulder pads. And once you're always, yeah. Yeah, once you're president. It's like Heisman,

I got spoken to it. Did you really? I said former Heisman trophy winner. And I was like, oh, hey, what's the Heisman always? A husband. That's a good lesson for all of us. Mansell's was the wildest of all time.

It wasn't the best, but it was the wildest. I will never go to, you can't ever have a president, not sitting, but a president of the United States and I think you can say former first lady

Hey I'm gonna tell you this TV broadcast right now of Shador like celebrating jumping into the pool and stuff after you get drafted I love that Does this change the narrative With the Bible verse across the pool Well I would say like

I wouldn't be doing that if I thought I was going on the first round Like hey let's broadcast this It humanizes him Like that he's pumped The relief The knowing where he's going No one I think we lose

We're all saying the same thing That's cool You think so? I think it's cool He doesn't Oh wow I think it's all image Two to one

You can't You can't push me down man So you think it's fake I I For them it's all image This is part of the deal Like think of all these young influencers

Man It's all space How could you not All It's like maybe I'm just a cynic Sorry Yeah maybe I am I'd rather the guy

I'd rather Tom Brady going down to the and again this is a little cheesy story too but he's going down to the Little E Park and he's hitting balls with his dad because he can't be, you can't believe he hasn't been drafted yet and he's so pissed off that he's going to prove everyone wrong. I also, I always say this too.

I have this theory about guys that I've never really backed up so it's not really great. But here's the thing. When guys say, I'm so excited I got drafted and I'm going out of my boys. celebrating and then there's other guys who are like I can't wait to get there I can't wait to get to work right he's celebrating

he's not like you know what it's been a tough day I can't wait to get to Cleveland start ripping heads off he see we saw him for 12 seconds Mitch I know but that's but that was my reaction to that so you would rather the guys I think he's had a rough couple days I agree you can hate him you can hate the whole Colorado thing and like look

a lot of that was brought on themselves you go four and eight and you're on 60 minutes nobody's gonna like that I'm glad it's over. Right. But he went way later than he should have. I thought your initial reaction was assinine and I thought it was kind of flip it. I did.

Uh-oh. However. I'm glad I'm here to break this up. No, I think, because my initial reaction was in line with you. Guys've been through, I mean, that's a night. Yeah, maybe I felt for it. But I'm like, the fact that he could do that, I'd be so fine. I think both can be true because, because, because.

Because that should be his reaction. Something of joy, excitement, relief. This has been a horrible experience. Yes. You think the contest is too good to not pose. I think things. But here's the part. Yeah, right.

Here's the part I agree with you. Because it did for me for a second. I was like, Devin Neil. My guy. My guy. And you're going to listen and you're going to listen. The part I agree with you on. After these Devin Neil's my likes.

Against Colorado. Why do we have to? Why do we have to take a video of it? Why do we have to send it to the networks? Oh, dude. What I'm saying? First of all, they didn't send it in the networks. It was on his TikTok.

They pick it up immediately because it's more content, so that's fine. That was all shot on a phone. And by the way, like, look, I can't believe I'm the guy having to say this in the room. I'm going to put you in the corner here. Like, yeah. Like, are you not aware of how dudes operate now at that age? That's what I mean. Of course, this is going to be posted.

Maybe I'm the old guy yelling at the cloud. I saw a kid who had a miserable couple days. Everybody's shitting on him left and right. And I don't even necessarily... That's my gut. I don't love all of the Colorado stuff at all. It's absolutely my god. I actually, you know what's been interesting about him? I'm happy for him, too.

There's a lot of... I think he hasn't been shit on by everyone. I think there's been a lot of people that got in his back. And rightfully so. I think it's good. A lot of people went online and I do. Some of the arguments are stupid. This is ridiculous. If it was the NFL colluding,

then wouldn't some team that thought he sucks and is a terrible person? I'd be like, I hope someone in our division takes him? Yeah. Yeah. talking to me about Devin Neal. What have you seen in him? Oh, love his toughness, change the direction, a little undersized.

But I think Kansas used him in space really well. His numbers are almost exactly Kareem Hunt's numbers. He reminds me Kareem Hunt's so much. I like the Kareem Hunt. He's just Kareem hunting. I like him a lot, but I don't like him as much as you do. What about Danny Stutzman? That guy could change.

You want to talk about culture tone, setters. You don't what I worry about, though? A lot of missed tackles. He's everywhere. He's everywhere. But when he makes him, celebration. And we made it 400 of them.

New Orleans had a... Yeah, the numbers don't... Hold on. What did New Orleans do? I want to look to this draft. Quincy Riley... Quincy Riley is a third round. Why is Janeline Reed still available?

I know you don't care about his take one as good as I want to me, man. Can we talk about the best quarterback potentially in this draft? There's certain uniforms where I fall for guys at certain positions. I've lost complete control of the show. What do you want to do?

I want to talk about the quarterback that may wind up actually being the best quarterback in this draft. and I said that coming into the process, and now that I know where he's landed, I'm starting to feel like that could be the case. When we look back three years from now, I said, I won't be shocked. I'm not predicting it,

but I am saying there's a chance Tyler Shuck is the best quarterback from this draft when we look back in three years. Listen, I believe in Cam Ward. I've said nothing but positive things. I can't remember the last time I said anything negative about Cam Ward. Probably the Florida game when he threw it back across the middle of the field.

I've made some kind of. comments that are constructive about his game and what needs to improve. That has to stop. I got nothing, I get nothing but love for Cam Ward. Some of those games. They're like, I'm going out of balance now. Let's see if anybody catches this. But Tyler Shuck could, I'm just going to keep ignoring both of you and just keep plowing

this side. I'm good. Will Howard to the Steelers. Yes. I do love Will Howard to the Steelers. Tyler Shuck may wind up being the best quarterback in this draft. Thoughts? I haven't watched him enough at the last stop.

I didn't watch him a lot. this year. Louisville? Yeah. You missed all of it. So I missed everything that mattered. Well, you literally, you read the first 20 pages of death, destruction, famine, and then you've missed the last 200 pages of like redemption, perseverance, happy ending, all that.

He was a good dude. Yeah, I don't, I'm not going to sit here and pretend a lot of you guys. I didn't feel comfortable as the pre-draft process went through. You know, I didn't have the huddle going. So, okay. All right. Tell me on them. If you say he can spin it first, I'm out.

The whole show's over. But man, can he spin it? I think, I think this guy, I think a major part of the problem when quarterbacks don't, don't make it or aren't ready for the moment in the NFL, they don't know who they are yet, they aren't mature enough, they haven't taken. A lot of these guys are getting paid young. A lot of these guys are seven on seven, the elite 11s. They've been groomed since they were like 12 years old. They had not faced real adversity in life. He was carted off the field once after one of three season ending injuries and thought football was taken away from him.

He was in the recruiting class and highly, highly recruited. The choice between a bunch of different places, chose Oregon. Oregon's on the rise. He's the backup to Herbert, seven years ago. Yeah, when he came in, he showed at least the recruiting flashes of what it was. The talent's there. But he almost had football taken away. He bounced to three different schools.

he got with the Brahms, who were one of the handful of, it's one of the handful of people in college that truly can develop a quarterback mentally in terms of understanding verbiage and understanding concepts and reads and progressions and all that. And so he enters the league with a unique perspective and level of maturity that Cam Ward also has to a certain degree as well with three different stops of his own in five years

and what he went through. And a zero star recruit. They came from one's a zero star, one's a five star. And his road was rocky. Right. Cam's was like chunks away. But Cam was like challenging himself at each stop. Correct.

And so. A hundred percent. But his journey, my least favorite word in today's culture. But his experience was very different than Cam's. Had massive setbacks. And now you've entered the league and you're like, Yeah, I'm ready for anything. And if it says a backup, I'll contribute.

Yeah, because even some of the stuff with, at least what I was talking about with Cam, some of those throws were just of all the things you're going to do. And clearly it didn't get in the way of I'm going number one. But I'd say the tape got better from, hey, what are you doing right now? You know Washington State, man, there was a lot of like, what is we doing? Yeah, right. By the way, Ohio State with Howard. Is that old?

14 picks by Ohio State. I asked the question, is the shift complete? The Big Ten, the best talent conference. Gosh. In college football. We have all summer to talk about this. We took a lot of heat for this in the fall. A lot of heat.

Because Alabama's not Alabama anymore, so now... Well, the Big Ten won back-to-back titles with two different teams for the first time in 80 years, so that's enough evidence for me. So you're a Big Ten guy? You know where it's top-heavy? I grew up a Big Ten guy. It's hard to come off SEC. I think that the talent throughout that schedule is still a joke.

They just didn't have good quarterbacks this year. I mean, the Indiana run kind of shows the weakness of that conference. I've never seen a fan base enjoy two late touchdowns that meant nothing more than the Hoosiers. Yes. In the playoff game? Yes. Yeah. Made tight.

Yeah. Like that showed. Yeah. We belong. Look us up. Google us. I win. Google me.

So you guys don't want to talk about Jonas Sanker and Quincy Riley and Devin Neal? I think the Saints have an awesome graph. tell me on it give me more what would you give me for a grade I don't do grades who else

who helps uh wait the pronunciation of the word is chance Kelvin Banks is better than Will Campbell there's a good chance you get it

alright let's do the Patriots thing let's do the Patriots thing oh we don't want me to do the rants again but no you have you got it's starting to get a hug Bill Simmons came on our show I jumped them

Mence jumps them there was like internet problems. I didn't know what to do, man. Trouble patching him in. He comes in, he's got his hat back. I like, I get it, but like, you know, this is sort of my deal. I introduce Mensch to like, dude, kind of like his boss in the way.

You know, like Steve, Bill, Bill, Steve. Better content if you're not looking at it as a hierarchy, though. Totally. And Mench jumps him. He jumps Bill's ass like, right. Yeah, we do a podcast or we're in an HR meeting, you know? It was awesome. Bill's take was like, I made peace with it.

I was like, really? You've made peace with taking a guard at four? That's great. I'm glad you're going on. No wonder. It's going on. I would have just taken, I would have just taken Jalen Walker again. I'm fine with.

Absolutely. Oh, no. You're not fine with. Patriots or? My grade was really high on Walker, obviously. And then it kind of went south when it was brought up the rabble, put on the pads and worked him out. And I was like, I can't, I can't respond to that. I had my vein and my neck was going.

I don't know. Like, Will's good. He's great. He's a really good player. That offensive line, I don't know if he was making up for other deficiencies. I mean, they had, Emory went, what, in the third round? So. That was bad.

He was bad. He shouldn't have gone then. But there was like a rep thing with that on line going into this summer that it was like, these guys are going to dominate. And that's when I was going to have a lot of time. And I would say over the course of watching them, I never really felt like, well, they can always count on the O line. So then when you're taking the left tackle and we know that it's one of your biggest needs.

I just hate the reaching stuff. It's reach for need. Especially that high where I think personally I would always default to is this a big physical corner that is going to be able to hold up one-on-one? I'd prioritize that. I'd prioritize edge. And even in an edge-heavy draft where they're playing the value game that we just went through all of those names. I don't, I'll be honest. I haven't really liked their draft because I think.

Oh. Who was it? Tyler Loop, the kicker. Anyis Peebles? I can't get mad to you about that. Yeah. I don't do kickers. I don't do punters.

Can I get them written up? Do you have one on Chase Lunt? Yeah, I do have Chase Lunt. Did you do, like, Borger Ellis? I did do the Miami. You did or didn't? Yeah, I did. I didn't want to do any kickers, and then the three-year tallies told me about five would get drafted.

Yeah, the kicker game's tough. What are you going to write? He was really accurate. Yeah. Give me a grade, man. Give me a grade on the Pats right now with the kicker in the mix. Trevi and Kyle. Trevian Henderson, Kyle Williams, and Jared Wilson.

Day two was A-minus. I thought that day one, I don't know. They traded up for Joshua Farmer. I'll let you write it real quick, Mitch. Yeah. But be quick. He's a freaking kicker, would you? You're going to let me let me do things.

It's good. 5-11-170, buddy. I will. You guys are the best. No, that's Gaelas. I know. I know. Okay.

I just screwed up the time. Yeah, they got a detack. You know, they took in the fifth round, fourth round, excuse me. The Patriots drafted him. Yeah. Oh, okay. The Miami kicker. Right.

Why are we all live here? You're going to give me a cello. Who do we need to talk about? We're good on the pads. I'm a little worried about the reach part of it. Yeah. I think if you're taking a left tackle four, I think I want to see like Jake Long type shit. I will say this.

I had him as a 12th overall player. I don't like taking the 12th player at 4. And yes, I can't stand drafting for need. But I know this as an organization. There are three assets in this organization, and only two. If I'm Robert Kraft, there's three assets I'm looking at that I have in this Patriots organization. Two of them actually play on the field. One of them is Vrable, and I would put them in this order of assets.

It's Drake May, Vrable, Christian Gonzalez. and the rest is like, and now you brought in Bill and Williams, but like, so. At one point it was the least talented roster arguably in the NFL. Absolutely.

It was down there. Bottom two, bottom three. Right. And so that is all shifted, but none of it matters. Like I was talking to Joe Douglas last, last year.

And I don't think he'll mind if I share this. There was a, it was a real hard decision to make. I think he was just sharing out a couple years ago. They really wanted to, Jeff, Jamir Gibbs and the footflop for Aaron Rogers took him out of that spot.

And they took Will McDonald, and that turned out to be a great pick. But anyone with a brain recognized, well, the Jets have a tight end need. Brock Bowers is awesome. But the only way this thing doesn't, if Aaron Rogers comes back and is actually what we thought we were getting before the Achilles injury, the only thing that derails this. It's not going to be whether we have a tight end or not. He will elevate it, but it won't derail it. it. What will derail it

is if we can't protect going on 40 quarterback coming off an Achilles. And so you got to take Olu Foshano, right? Yeah, Penn State. And they did. And he played up and down this past year. It doesn't matter.

But my point in this is the only thing that derails the Patriots is if we can't protect this. And by the way, he was knocked out of two games, one with a concussion, another one, you know. And I was at that Jets game knocked out and the game went from exciting and the energy and the offense

and things were rolling and it wasn't all pretty You're talking 24 right? Yeah. Because like May didn't even complete that many passes but you loved Drake May. I think you tweeted out like how much you loved him even though statistically it was like yes. Yeah okay. You could just tell he was in control nothing was going too fast. I remember when you

sent the tweet I'd watch the game. It's like what the hell is he talking about? Yeah. I love that. But yeah so he was able to look beyond the box score. So he so he so the variable then goes down to Dallas and they bring him in for a visit and they talk and like his football brain is beyond Anything that you would expect and everyone said that and Brable fell in love with him and now it's like we need leadership in this old line room that There's a lot that went into this I'm not saying I'm in love with the pick but I understand the pick I guess is the best way but here's the thing you're you grew in the vineyard You've been around these Patriots organizations

When they were great and when they were horrible, and then when they were great, and then this little run we're on right now. Outside of Randy Moss, who's the last guy, if you, like, really close their eyes and think? Who's the last guy that you're scared as an apartment? Well, Aaron Hernandez is scared. No, I mean, it was a tough cover.

You could play him outside, put him in a slot. You're on a heater today. I love it. You're right. Guys that scare you. Impact, get the ball in their hands and they can catch a screen and go. I like David Givens a lot when he was there. Yeah, but like.

No, your point is. So Trayvion Henderson. Like think about that 70-yard screen catch against Texas. I think about Trevian as a freshman. Yes. When he came on the scene at Ohio State, it's weird. Like his story almost went in this circular route because then Judkins comes in and he's like the higher profile more dynamic guy.

Because he can't be the guy. He's got to be a compliment to the guy, just like Jemir Gibbs. So why did you take him in the second round? Because he can do something that nobody else can do in this class. Right. He can take that screen pass and go 70 before halftime. Yeah, I hear you. And then Kyle Williams, another speed receiver.

I'm just saying they haven't had speed and they haven't had protection. And now their first four picks are Compton, Henderson, Kyle Williams, and Jared Wilson. Dude, Riley Leonard Colts. I'm surprised he lasted this long. I talked to a lot of people in the league who liked him. See if he picks up any garbage at the rookie event. Huh? Ah, just the Colts QB thing.

Oh, that's their role? The leaders. The leaders do it. Hey, can we talk Kansas City here? Please. Anything but picking up garbage at a rookie event. Josh Simmons, Norman Lott.

Yep. Edge guy there from Louisville. If you were to say I need, I want to trust somebody in the mud, where does Kansas City, where does Vich rank on evaluation of that kind of stuff? Because the O-line thing, we're on a roller coaster of O-line production from Holmes here. But I absolutely love how they reinvented this defense on the fly and all the people that, like, I love the overall job that they've done, I think, is terrific. and it isn't just about Mahomes, but clearly the O-Line thing here is a big problem outside because we all like the interior guys, right? They've been awesome picking defense for the most part.

They've been up and down with some other positions, obviously running back offensive way. I'm actually going, this is a good point you're making. I'm going to Kansas City. Drafthistory.com. I don't know who runs it. I have no affiliation, but it's the fastest way to get to all these things. When did they draft Mahomes?

18 or was that the first year he played? Was that the 17 draft with all those guys? And then he played in 18. Mohamed's 17. Yeah. Okay. After that, their next draft speaks, Nandi, defensive tackles,

linebacker, DB, DB, defensive tackle. Six picks, all defense. 2019. McColl Hardman, but then DB, defensive tackle, DB. 20-20. Nicole didn't quite buy in. I don't know that he was atone.

setter for the culture. They've missed on the skill guys, is my point. So then they've been on top of they've missed, and they've been unlucky with the guys that look like Rice looked like he's going to be a guy. They have absolutely no fear when it comes to character off the field

kind of stuff. They don't. And that's been proven over time. Every year it's been heavy, heavy defense. And I've got this theory that when you find your quarterback load up on the defense, because the quarterback can make up for sins of 10 other guys. Certainly that. guy can, yeah.

If you've got this. No, this is really interesting. But immediately, teams that are really good at this, they shifted immediately. Like the Eagles, the Ravens, when they get their guy a quarterback, they shift it because, and you find closers.

Because trusting that this guy that we know is great and is going to be our guy for a long time, he's going to get us out to leads. Now we've got to get closers because we're going to have leads. We've got to be able to close out games. And so they've done a really good job. job with that. But they've been up and down with some of their picks and the offensive skill and some

of the old I'm in. But Josh Simmons is the all-time risk reward for the Chiefs. Josh Simmons, some of the character stuff, it's not like no horrible incidents, nothing, nothing crazy. Yeah, we're talking like need though, maybe at 32 versus four. Right. I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you right now, Josh Simmons is noticeably more talented than the number four overall pick in Will Campbell.

Noticably. The bend, the movement. I wish we had a soundtrack to lay under that. That was hit. Yeah. Like noticeably better. That's the same face I've been making, by the way, for the last, the whole process. Every time I bring up the kid's name.

But is he going to buy in? Right. So Andy Reid's got a project on his hands, but if he develops this guy and hits, all of a sudden, this offensive line is going to, take another step finally. And the biggest problem that they had in the Super Bowl and really one of the biggest problems they've had for the last few years has been protection up front. I mean, I just

look at this group and like McDuffies is stud, obviously Bolton's a stud when he can play. I think Tranquil's turned into something here. Carloftus absolutely has. See what I'm saying? Amanahue. Leo Chanel I always feel like shows up. He's making plays, finish his tackles.

Chris Jones, obviously. I mean, they reinvented themselves at corner here. You know, when you look at the receiver part of this, like, I thought Rice was going to actually work out for them. And so what do they do? That's their trend. They'll take it, they'll take an offensive player, whether it's a weapon or an offensive lineman early, and then they'll just load back up on defense. Like, Xavier Worthy's not a one. You know, everybody lost their minds week one. I've already referenced this too many times on my show, but it was like a very classic disconnect of the Saturday and Sunday people of like week one, Xavier Worthy, they're using them. And it's like, I can't believe. And it's like, yeah, but I mean, you know, you know, you. You guys spend months trying to figure out who are the guys that look really cool in highlights and who actually know how to play the position.

Right. He was, you know, so is he a one? He shouldn't be a one. No, they just need more explosive. Explosives. They need. Sky more. It's not really happening.

They miss on it. I'm telling you, the offensive skill guys, they have had a hard time. Yeah. But were they provided, like, you're talking to the end of the first. He's basically a second round receiver, but he provided, I think, this past year what they were hoping to get. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. You're out of Ladd-McConkey or do you rather than Xavier Worthy? Oh, Ladd.

Absolutely, but I, but didn't he go after? No, McConkey went after. Did it? Yeah. Yeah, I hear you, but I also, if I'm Andy and I'm Brett, look, I'll just admit, even though I watched him, I'd have a hard time watching Xavier Worthy run around next to Ladd-McConkey and be like, I'll take Ladd.

It's true. I mean, I had him, I read a way higher. You did. Yeah, I mean, It's a little like the Alex Caruso thing. You're like, there's no way this guy's good, is he? Right, right, right. Like, he's already, what's going on with his hair?

He's like 23. I get it, though. Right. I don't know. I think Vech is great. I think Vech is bold. And, you know, when they had the disastrous protection situation from Holmes against Tampa Bay where immediately you went, okay, this is probably going to be a long-term problem,

they fix it. You know, they put back in the O line, they figure it out. Again, we love the interior. thing as I mentioned. And then here we are again. It's almost the exact same story where you felt like all of the good stuff doesn't matter. Even with the best guy in the world behind center, it doesn't matter if you're going to sit there, especially with Philly just being four-man rush all night long and you can't do anything against it because you don't like your tackles. And you're moving Thunei out. So everyone wants us, we did a poll, I guess. I didn't turn. I actually

talked to a really high-level NFL personnel person. That's what they were saying about Campbell. Like, I love Campbell.

I love him the person. But if it's not working out of tackle, he's probably going to probably going to have to move into guard. And like, I just have visions of teams

tuning him to death. Like what the Eagles did to him, the long arm and, you know, Super Bowl stuff. You know, that's a good,

you just made a segment idea. Like, I think people This is two. Right, but after like they get together in high school and then, you know, 10 years down the road. And I don't want to knock like any professional or anything. It's like, hey, what happened to that guy? He seemed to have, he seemed to have like life by the balls, right? You know? Yeah, I think, I can think of two off the top. Ladies loved him, guys wanted to be him. Yeah. Who's a good friend? Two friends are like that?

Yeah, people in high school are. I'm like. Right. But the point that I'm getting to is that a lot of potential. You know, I thought that guy. I'm not saying he's doing bad. I just had much bigger expectations. And I think we should just trademark this and turn it to an everyday thing where you just look at your friend asking questions about the awesome guy. And you're like, we bumped him inside the guard. I think we should adapt that to life.

We bumped him inside the guard. Yeah. You're like, what's up with that guy? And you're like, is he living at home right now? It's like, no, no, no, he's actually renting out of place. But like, there was a mortgage thing that I think it happened. I'm not sure he was going to work out of a tackle. It's going to be all right.

It's always going to be a damn good guard. He's never moving out of town. We just bumped him in the guard. Yeah, but we're going to, he kind of just realized, I'm not a tackle. I'm not a tackle of life. I'm a guard. We had a poll. Okay.

We had a poll. What do we got? Which team's draft should we discuss next? The leader is the Raiders. Oh, let's go. Let's get Minch back here. When are you done with this? What kick?

Are you still on the I feel like you're milking it. Yeah. And I wouldn't care. I'm going to admit, this couch isn't the most comfortable thing I've ever sat on, but.

I wouldn't care, but I'm just getting like a stiff neck. It's for sale, by the way, if anybody's interested. It's for sale. Facebook marketplace. That's the only time in an hour and 32 minutes,

Rissillo's looked at a single shot, and it wasn't even on them. Raiders, Ashton Jinty. That was a surprise. Wasn't a surprise for like three months leading up to the draft. Just don't bump.

the camera. You guys are great. But then all the, good job by SpyTech and that organization. They got some crafty word out there that they're not going ginty late. And it got everyone. Robidope.

Yeah. Every would, the information was offensive tackle. Then I got as specific as Calvin Banks. So you had someone straight up lie to you. Oh, I don't think they lied to me. I think they got lied to and bought it. You got litter?

This is almost like a... Luke Newman? That Malaney guy thinks he's killing it with that live show on Netflix. Luke Newman? This is at the same level. Have you watched that? Hey, one sack aloud on 400 pass block snaps

last year at Michigan State. Yeah, I'll watch the tape. Don't they just run the football? Have you ever... Can you... No, listen. They had seven passing attempts last year. Listen.

It's a big ten jokes. What's happening now? What was going on? Oh, he's a heavy typer. Oh, my gosh. It's so bad. Mensch, type of sentence. Dude.

The Raiders, let's talk about it. We appreciate everyone getting going on the polls. I want to hear about it. I'm going to shut up here. So, so Genti was, it was a surprise that wasn't a surprise but turned into a surprise, right? Right. That aside, I guess the question for me was always, like, are they, in, are they in a position to draft an Ashton Genty, you know, as they try to turn things around.

They're on the SEC run right now. The answer is they absolutely, like, they, Pete Carroll didn't come in here to do a five-year rebuild, you know? Just period. And so. You hearing anything good day-to-day on Brady? Think about Chip. Chip, you, Chip lives down the street, right? Yeah.

Not as close as the beach, but yeah, he's in the air. Okay. Think about Chip with Genty. Yeah, I mean, he's going to work to. to make sure, like his best thing that, I mean, I'm sure he's evolved a million different times, but, right, isn't a lot of it considered that it's pretty simple, and then basically he's leading you into these mismatches where all of a sudden he's opening up lanes with concepts. Yep.

Right? Yep. So, I mean, can you imagine getting to work with Gentian do this stuff? And the thing that I thought was really important too with Gentian, we talked about it with you guys when we did it. It's like, don't make the mistake of thinking because he was in this conference. Like, granted, the numbers were better because the conference he was in, but I thought the Penn State tape was, he was. No blocking.

Right. Yeah. I was looking at that game specifically being like, is he going to get his ass kick against the NFL? You know, because Penn State's defense, loaded with a bunch of guys. I liked a lot of guys on that side of the ball. But not the case.

So keep going, though, because I don't want to talk about it as much because I know that we're going to have the full scope of it more than I will. No, and we're doing, like, God knows how long tomorrow. And all 32 teams and breaking it all down. I'm not worried about that. So you love Gentie is your pick. You love Gentie because of what? Gino because of chip?

I don't think they're planning on doing a two or three year rebuild. Gino's turning 35. Pete's turning... 85. Right? No, I don't know. But like late 70s. Stats and info.

So, yeah, let's bring in weapons. Let's ride, let's roll. Jack Besh, I love that picking the second round. Dude, Besh was a freak. Complete matchup nightmare when he was at LSU. I don't know how he got out of there. What was the deal? They just, I don't know.

Honestly, I still can't believe how little they use Mason Taylor towards the end of it. I know, I already said that three times. He is physical. He will block his ass off. Bess is a baller. Bessch's a whole thing is the run's going to set up the pass and it sounds so remedial. But like, the concepts are off the run and our receivers got to block. They got a block.

Bess is one of the best blocking receivers in this draft. Great hands. Works the middle of the field. Like he's just, think about Chip stuff with like this receivers. Like, you know. Mesh concepts? And like, crossers? All the different things that they do.

And finding soft spots. When I think about Chip's offense, I think about, okay, we're going to go a little bit of here. And then we're going to go to a little bit of here. Maybe it's a first time. Maybe it's a second and five. And then you think you have it. And then Bech is going to be running down the fucking numbers wide open. Because nobody, like they fell for everything.

that was setting up this scene thing. And that to me is like whenever I think about offenses and guys, like whenever I think of Ohio State and Ryan Day, I think of a wide open post over the middle of the... Oregon. Right. But Oregon to me was always that. No, against Oregon in the college football playoffs.

The Ibuka front. Two Abuka's down the pipe. Stupid. And Tennessee. Abuka down the pipe. Hey, eventually we're going to beat you over the top and our receiver is just going to run inside the post. And your guy's never going to be as good most often in this match.

against us. So yeah, I do have different teams and their coaches where I always think of like, oh, this is, with Chip it is that I swear to God, it is the tight end just sneaking out. Or the slot receiver. And that's what best is. That's why I love to pick. And the fact that they

were like, I wonder, I would love to know how much Vegas looked at the early LSU tape and was like, what is going on with this guy? Yeah. Obviously he's been through a lot. Daryon Porter, the third round pick. You talk about, he's got Tariq Wollin type traits, former wide receiver, kind of still

figuring it out. Not perfect in terms of technique and coverage. I'm telling you right now and Mentsch always blasts me for it. I'm glad he's not sitting here right now. Hey, can you give me your breakdown on Thornton? I'm in the middle of a sentence. Yeah, but you just said something in Mesh. What is wrong with you? I'm getting tired.

I still have to watch 10 hours of basketball. Rieg Wolin's tape was trash at UTSA. It was not trash. It was not very good. wasn't trash. It was not very good. Trash is low. And he went in the fifth round so the league kind of be like, but there's traits. And Porter's traits are absurd.

Six, three, 195 pounds, long arms, ran a four, what was it, four, three, two or something silly. And he's a former receiver. Goes up and gets the ball. I think he's going to be a player. So those first three picks are slam dunks, and they got a William and Mary offensive tackle. I won't even hold him against him as a Richmond guy.

And mentioned guy Pegis. Best running back in the SEC. 6-4. Very long arms. 205 ran a 4-26. Who? Reek Wullen. Okay, give me the...

Do you want to ask when you're rudely interrupted? That's all right. It's a live broadcast. You'll be okay. I, on paper, sort of love the receiving group for Tennessee. I think the times we looked at the room and were like a one through three, potentially four. Like, that's a really good group, put up against anybody else.

And then we saw in that game, Columbus, that might have been the coldest football team I've ever seen that it was the least interested in playing football in a really long time. Shirts off, though. It kind of, it kind of like, I used to always think it was a bit of a bullshit excuse to be like, oh, it's because all these teams have to play in New Orleans and Atlanta. They never have to play up here. I'm like, dude, whatever.

That game, I've opened my mind up to the possibility of some dudes just don't like it to be cold. I agree. I got really caught up in the fact that Ohio State had lost the Michigan just before that, right? And I was like, this game, Tennessee's going to roll them. The Tennessee defensive front. Oh, wait, stop. What?

Stop. Are you done? Pause. Don't move. Yep. Are you done typing about? Well, we don't know. I don't know what's coming next.

Okay. Hold on. Don't move. First of all, do you play guitar? Oh, yeah. Folk, though, and finger-picking. Not traditional. Mence plays guitar.

Not, I mean, yeah. That's standard tuning on the right. Mench, give me something right now on the broadcast. Like, don't, you can't say no. Whose car we're going to take? That's the theme of the day. There's a pick in the... Yeah.

Where is it? Yeah, it's up there. We'll get to Thornton here in a second. That's my boy. That's my boy. Does that work? Yes. Good.

All right. I'm glad. I'm glad. Do you not know your surroundings? You've been looking back to it the whole time. No, my neck is tight. And I've only... I look over.

I see the hills in the background. I see Marissa. I see Jake, I see Tucker, but I can always see, like, you know, peripheral. So you can't read the whole field right now? I'm having trouble. We've been sitting in a lot of studios and seats,

you know? It's time to get out and live. It's time to get out and live. We don't think of a record deal. That was beautiful, man. Who was the best receiver on Tennessee last year? I think... Why do I love Brew McCoy so bad?

Why are we talking about Tennessee? I like Brew McCoy. I think he's going to... By the way, I think he was going to sneak around the league for a while and become like a number four, like a possession guy. I think it's right over that hill. You know, my theory is it? Nico was never that good. We played ball and ball, though.

I thought, I actually thought after the Ohio State game, I was like, this kid's going to be really good. And you watch the tapes and it's like, man, you cannot hit the deep ball. You could never hit the deep ball all year. No, I waited all year on the Nico game. Come on, man. You know, look, I think it's what, the Arkansas game, where their starter went out and you're still like, like what is going on with you guys. Hold on.

I want to do this. Keep going. I don't have anything more. I mean, look, I just, the Tennessee, Thornton went to the Raiders. That's why I was bringing it up. Because some people like squirrel, you know. And so I just was trying to figure out like how he fit in in comparison to, again, at certain times in Tennessee, you're like, hey, look at all these playmakers. Look at who they have it running back.

Maybe it was about Nico. I don't, I wonder if I have this game downloaded. Are we pulling up game clips? 145 in? I've never seen anything like it, man. Every single game, it's like he had to get it out of his system, Nico. With the overthrow of the deep ball earlier? Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. It was part of the game plan. I don't think I'm on the Wi-Fi. I'm not going to give out your cell phone number to get in the Wi-Fi. It's fine. I've never seen anything like it. I think it was Mississippi State. Mississippi State's defense, not good.

And he just overshot it by 25 yards out of the back of the end So the Arkansas game there was like an incredible ball that he hit. I mean, I don't know what he's talking about Nico too. This is my fault. It's absolutely your fault. Yeah, right. And then I'm trying to remember because he was he was the other guy. He was Kitzelman who.

How much has mentioned, how much did Mench's mafia just grow with just 30 seconds of? That was nice. That was really nice. That was sweet. Good fretting. You know how I didn't go... I'm not very good. I didn't go with anything known

because then you just mess it up and they're like, yeah, I guess it sort of sounded like... Yeah. You know it does a good job of that song? The people that wrote it. Yeah, right. Yeah. And you're just like, that's harsh.

Although I did sit through a slower second half of fish last night. So that... Was it? Yeah, well, you know, they were experimenting a little bit. But when somebody who's been with the band like 30 years turns to me, it's like, do you know this song? Do we have any other questions from folks?

Because we're coming up towards the end and I want to make sure. You want to finish strong. Well, yeah, I just want to make sure you sit here for two hours. The nonsense is fun and it's exciting and it's good to be around. I feel like I'm getting scolded a bit.

You're absolutely not. You're absolutely not. It's carried it. Let me ask you this before we get, before we answer something, some questions or get to a poll. Can I confirm right now? I don't, I absolutely want you involved.

It's the core principle of it, but even if you can't because your NBA responsibilities. I've got to watch playoff games draft week. Right, 22-hour weekend. It's fun. Can we lock this in? Should I choose? Should I decide to choose we're never going to a draft again

and freezing our asses off or sweating my onions off? If I choose that we're going to be in L.A. to do this for the foreseeable future, can we lock in day three at Rissillo's house? Even if you have to be in and out, like we're just invading your house? I had so much fun. doing this. I'm dreading the rest

of the day, but I've told myself... Well, maybe next year don't go to fish the night before. Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with it. Maybe next year I'll tell Miami and Cleveland not to play a game three in the first round. But how hard... First of all, was this this hard? No, but... And how hard is it to watch NBA games

tonight? None of this is hard. It's about the time. This now means that I have... Lakers, Minnesota, I have to watch second half. I have to watch... Have they started? No, that's last night. Tweed's a reprise, 340 into the concert. Minnesota finishing that one out.

What else in the draft? What are the other headlines here? You get to finish draft strong. I know I have a tendency to derail things at hour two. And I don't want to do that to you or your audience. Giants. A lot of questions about the Giants. Giants.

I mean, we got to get to NYG, right? Giants, the people are asking, and we're going to respond. Thank you for, thank you, Marissa, for keeping us informed and what the people want. And yeah, I guess we haven't really gotten to the... Well, we talked about... No second about. Yeah. Well, Scataboo.

Pro? Gimmick. Honestly, he got a little bit of the Shador Sanders stuff. Like, it's just a... He can be a lot to... Dude, the broadcast... Shaddaabu is with him a lot. Yeah.

Scatabu is a lot, apparently... All you had to do was read between the lines. I'd have to be broadcast. It was like, hey, he did a really good job of, like, working with his teammate. and his condition. He was like, so he was a fat dickhead last year? Like,

that's, I love that you get to say the things that I, I don't think. Yeah, but that was, I'm not calling him that. The messaging on multiple broadcasts was like, kind of a dick,

little chubby. Then you're like, dude, take it easy. I'll be honest with you. I kind of went into watching his tape. Like, I watched all season long,

right? Yeah. But I saved like six games to watch after the season was over. I saw the interviews, the me, me, me, me, me, and loud, like, all that. And, like, I'm watching him, I'm like, this is awesome. Like, what he's doing is awesome. But I don't know how it is going to work in the NFL.

And then I put on the tape, and I'm like, it's going to work. I loved his date. No kidding. All right. He is so freaking powerful from the ground up, and he's lighter on his feet. And yeah, he runs a little high. He's not going to last long. you can't have that run style run that high and last that long but as a GM like if I get three

if I could get five awesome if I get three he is different man he bounces off everything and he's just it's like weird because you look at the body type and you look at all like the packaging doesn't match up but he's light on his feet I came away more impressed by Scataboo than I was watching the games and I thought it was going to be the exact opposite experience. It was so much fun to watch. And considering what he was doing towards the end there, you know, the Iowa State game, like he was, yeah.

I mean, he kind of was just on his, it felt like he was almost on his own. Yes. Texas. Texas. Texas. Texas, Texas, the Texas game, right? Texas, yeah.

I didn't know if you, Texas was out, like, out of this world. And then you get Tyrone Tracy. It was a great find in the fifth round last year from Giants, right? But Tracy's more, this guy's just, and we'll grind it out. Devin Singletary's there. It's just, it's a good complimentary piece. Catches the ball, well. I like that pick.

But my favorite pick of the, actually, you got it wrong, by the. Joe Shane is done an awesome job. Go ahead. I'll come back to it. Do you not understand what I'm talking about when the announcers are kind of giving you the reading between the lines thing. 100%.

And with Scadaville, it was constant. Like, every week when you start dialing into those games, it was like, did you guys just hand over the notes? Like, Gus Johnson don't even have something. But then every now and then with Gus, you're just like, Dre Harris, this guy grew up and he had a dog. And the dog died. And Joel, they ate the dog.

And that's why they've said since high school, he's got that dog in him third and seven Michigan Munch get back here I need help I need help What were you going to say

Joe Shane's had a good draft It's not nearly as interesting as what you're talking about I agree You know it's funny I like Joe Shane I like Joe Shane on hard knots I didn't like him

The first couple minutes I'll admit Didn't really love him Didn't really love him And then as it kept progressing I go I'm a Joe Shane fan I've heard your take on this Why

The whole take of he should have resigned Sequin Barclay is... Thank you. Like, what are you going to do? One of my best takes to the last two years. You're going to bring Barclay back on a bad team and spend way too much money on a running back and it would have been the wrong move.

Why are you still over there, Mitch? I've got to keep an eye on my stuff, man. Another kicker girl? I'll admit, hard knocks, Iber flus. I was like, I don't know, dude. I was like, I don't know. I think hard knocks can... I tell you the truth in the most.

Yes. It bets. Yes. Hard knocks bets. You do Rex. Rex was like, this guy's kind of a goof, man. Like, he's good, but he's got to be. Yeah, but everybody that I know that's played for Rex loves him.

Oh. Oh, loves him. When he was a position coach, he was known as, like, the best. Willie Colon, solid heterosexual resume. But. But. He loved Rex Ryan. Right.

Joe Shane. has nailed this thing. Good transition. Thank you. Darius Alexander belonged in the second. He got him in the third. After obviously pulling off the... And people were like, why is it brilliant?

I don't understand it. They gave up nothing. They gave up the 99th pick. It was a compensatory pick to move up to go get Jackson Dark ahead of. And this is the part that everyone forgets. I know I said it earlier,

but there was a lot of talk. I think it was probable that the Rams were taking them at 26. I love this rumor. So it's managing the draft. Let Brian pick his guy. He picked his guy. Now I'm going to manage this thing.

We're taking the edge at three. And Brian, I will get you your guy. Do you know how hard that is to say? When your head coach is an offensive genius and we don't have the future quarterback and the answer, I'll get them. How many reps is he going to get, though? The bench press?

No. It's not all about that, dude. I want you bench, bro. I'm talking about in practice. That's the question. I can't wait until those leaks when Jackson's getting first team reps and Russell Wilson still on the roster. Here's what I woke up. I'm pre-looking forward to those.

Here's what I woke up to this morning. It was pouring rain and I rolled over in bed and I said that son of a bitch. That was just too easy. Give it to me. That's so good. And I saw rain. And I said that son of a bitch got off. easy.

I know. But it's not raining. You're in those shorts that, honestly goodness, like, you know, I would love to know what people are going to be

a thong soon. It's getting uncomfortable sitting next to. I would love to know what people think shorts are supposed to look like when you're sitting down. At least you had a tan,

it's my house. I'm not bad, right? I'm not, I don't want to, you're lucky I have a shirt on. Yes. That was a requirement.

You didn't answer my question. So we're good next year on day three of the draft year. He likes to lock you in, huh? This would be the time. It's the nature of our relationship for 20 plus years. Like it's in your way, no problem. No, but I mean, it is pretty crazy. Todd did give me my job at ESPN, and I'd like to think I had some input.

Right. We handed it back to each other. On this relationship. Absolutely. I still feel like you did me the bigger favor. Don't tell, they'll give him that. Don't give that. No, I mean, who's, I didn't have a job.

I didn't have one. Yeah, I think you were more valuable when you were available than I was in 06. Whatever. Yeah, fine. Lock it in. But maybe we could do tape delay. We can tape it in the morning. Yeah, let's just tape it super early in the morning. And then Shador Sanders will fall into the fifth round and it looks like a really stupid show. No, we'll go live. We'll do it live.

Bill O'Reilly style, not a political statement. But the pavement is dry. We're talking 40 for social later or no? Have you been trying? Have you been running? No. No, but I did 225 yesterday for you, so I'd give you a number. How many?

I got it 20 times, and that was good. I'm not even training for anything except an advantage over other human beings. 20 times. I don't know who's worse right now. He started this. Take the show wherever you are. My handstring would not. explode if I ran a 40.

I don't think, I don't think the 40, but when you started throwing around that I couldn't break a 6th was when I was offended. He's just trying to needle you. Yeah. I was trying to get you in. I know. I know what you were trying to do. I know what you're trying to do.

What position would you call yourself if you were, you know what I mean? I think I'd be a heady safety that probably wouldn't do great one-on-one coverage down the field. All right. 2025 class. Let's go to bench press reps. 24 is my best. 24 is your best

But I mean I got 20 yesterday Just seeing how it felt The best was Luke Kandra Guard from Cincinnati At 33 reps this year Did I get more than Jack Sawyer

I don't wait That's important to me Can we look that up Kevin Jack Is he doing it? I don't think he did it did he Mike Green had 28 I'm trying to find someone who you had

You had more than Savian Jones I knew that and Tyler Barron and you have the same amount as Femiola Dejo who was a third round pick Let's see what Jack Sawyer did He didn't do it at the combat

Well if you didn't do it Well I don't believe 21 So I'm almost like Jack Sawyer This close Okay That's fine So next year you'll do the 40

Uh Where's my I brought the stopwatch too Did you really? I swear to you. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Ever? Not right now.

Definitely not right now. What if I bring my stopwatch back next year? Fine. I'll do it. Yeah. I'll likely get hurt probably before it, so I'll have an excuse. So Joe Shane. Yes.

Great draft. Darius Alexander defensive tackle in the third round. Should have gone in the second. Cam Scadaboo in the fourth round. I had a third round grade. Marcus Bow. Marcus Bow. you this. There must have been some

injury that I wasn't aware of. The Purdue offensive tackle probably kicking the guard. It's one of those guys in life. What happened to him? We moved him inside the guard. We moved him inside to guard. I had him 63 overall in this class. Are you serious? Fifth round.

I'm saying, Joe Shane's having he's on a heater. You love, though, when somebody is drafting to your board, though, right? What's the worst year you've ever had? We're like, I don't I don't...

Mench, do you remember? Ments wouldn't remember more than me. It's so annoying. You know, I got 10... He's really good. It's really annoying. I would defend you even if I didn't like you, but you were really good at this.

I wouldn't have you on and be like, you know, we get along really well socially, but God, that guy sucks at film breakdown, but let's have him on again every week. No, I think you're great at it, man. Thanks, boss. Yeah, I mean, how do we finish strong here? What do we need?

Three minutes. We have three minutes left. Are there any questions from the folks? I mean, they've gotten a lot here. Way more than I expected. The entertainment level has been awesome. I'm looking here. There's got to be one more thing we can get to. What are you doing tonight?

Watching games? Yeah. Dinner tonight late? Sleigh somewhere? Yeah, we go to Sleigh. Is that your favorite place? It's my favorite place. because it's, you know, David Slay owns it.

He owns a bunch of restaurants. He's a St. Louis guy. He's got a vineyard. So every now and then I'm big on Vermonitino right now. You know, I don't tell everybody because I don't want the prices to get at control. But, yeah, it's just a great spot when people are in town and he takes care of everybody. I'm not saying it's free, but, you know, you can get a table. But I don't know, man.

I mean, we're already, I'm already three basketball games behind. It's two o'clock. So you're ready to go. If you go out late, late for dinner, maybe, but... Okay. Yeah. I give myself a fourth round grade of making dinner tonight. I got it.

How surprised were you about Shador to the fifth? Well, I don't know that there's ever been an example of the mock drafts messing with us this this much on any single player. There's nothing that I can compare this to in, what, 20 years of paying attention? You know, 20 plus years? Like, is there... Do we need to go back overall? again, for somebody to be that like the projection

be that off of where they're potentially going to go. And I know we can talk about the valuation and all this different stuff. I'm not saying I loved all of it and I can even understand a lot of the arguments about it. I think they completely miscalculated the entire thing. Like you don't get to be that dude pre-draft experience when this is what they think

of your talent, but still Milro ahead of him, Gabriel ahead of him. Yeah. I think he paid like an extra three rounds of pricing. on whatever the league thought of him. Yeah. It's a relationship world, man.

And they clearly had none, or they only had strange one. And it's also just every interaction handle it the same amount. You know, anyway. Favorite pick? Of the entire draft. Wow. No kidding. I love Tyler.

Tyler Shuck to the Saints. We didn't even get into the Derek Carr situation. He may have an opportunity. My man, I texted you out of the blue because your voicemails fucked up and you don't never pick up. So I had to text you. And I texted you that...

Xavier Watts, Atlanta. That I needed help. Where they got him? Not bad. I needed help. Can't tell you. Never going to be able to ask me. And we're probably going to have to hurt someone and you basically said, whose car were taken?

Yeah. I appreciate you, man. Thanks. Great to see you, too, man. This has been awesome, brother. This wraps up our first. Draft ever to get this. It's our first cycle, yeah.

Yes. I've had awesome time. I hope everyone appreciated it. We're back tomorrow, Sunday. I've got to be totally honest. I'm looking out, and it's like blue skies and ocean, and I'm... It can be tough.

I'm pumped to go back in the studio and do like two, three hours of breaking down all 32 team deep dives, but we're here for it, and we'll do it. Thanks for hanging. I hope you guys had as much fun as we did, and we'll see you tomorrow. Later. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-78-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline-M-A.org or call 1-800

327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1877-8-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York.