The McShay Show - McShay’s Guys For Week 10. Plus: Jim Nagy on Cam Ward’s Rise and Garrett Nussmeier’s Draft Decision

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Todd and Steve Muench kick off the show by planting their flags on two players for the 2025 NFL draft before previewing the weekend in college football. Then, the guys are joined by Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy to talk behind-the-scenes stories, whether Garrett Nussmeier should return to school, and how Jalen Milroe’s draft process compares to Jalen Hurt’s. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:00) "That's Mu-Guy!" 2.0 (1:25) Todd’s Guy: Kyle Kennard (Edge - South Carolina) (4:55) Muench’s Guy: Antwuan Powell-Ryland (Edge - Virginia Tech) (6:05) Todd’s Guy: Jarquez Hunter (Running Back - Auburn) (9:25) Muench’s Guy: Omarion Hampton (Running Back - North Carolina) (11:40) Where are the Scouts this week? (14:00) Week 10 Matchup: (4) Ohio State [-3.5] at (3) Penn State (24:10) Week 10 Matchup: (1) Oregon  [-15.5] at Michigan (30:25) Week 10 Matchup: (10) Texas A&M [-2.5] vs. South Carolina (33:25) Where would Todd Scout this week? (40:50) Jim Nagy Joins The McShay Show! (46:10) Should Garrett Nussmeier Return to LSU or Declare? (51:25) Evaluating Jalen Milroe through 9 Weeks (55:55) 2025 Senior Bowl Preview: Depth of OT Position (59:40) Understanding the Senior Bowl Selection Process (1:02:40) 2025 Senior Bowl Preview: Top QB Prospects (1:07:00) 2025 Senior Bowl Preview (1:12:00) Favorite Prospects in the 2025 Draft Class The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Jim Nagy and Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the McShay show. Appreciate you all being here. On Tap today, we've got the Senior Bowl executive director and longtime friend, a guy I used to work with 25 years ago. Jim Nagy joining us on this show. We're going to talk a lot of NFL prospects. Also today, we've got this week's edition of, That's My Guy!

Who are our guys? This is 2.0, Munch. I hope you're ready for that. And finally, where are the scouts going to be this week? And where would Todd be this week? and as usual, it's going to be food-driven. We got week 10 in the college football season, week 9 in the NFL,

and only 177 days until the NFL draft. Mentsch, you good? I'm good, man. All right, let's hear that beat. Here we go. All right, Menschey, let's go, bud. This week, we've got the 2.0 version. That's my guy.

It's my favorite segment that we do here. This week, you've had more time to watch some tape. Always curious at who you're looking at. I'm trying to put together our board. it's a long process. I'm going to start this off, okay? I know we've got a couple running backs and a couple edges. For me, a guy that's really stood out in the tape that I've watched is Kyle Kinnard,

the edge from South Carolina, 6-5, 254 pounds. This South Carolina defense has been awesome to watch. I mean, they really have. They've showed up in big games. I know Dylan Stewart kind of got all the love early on, the true freshman coming in. Stunt. Yeah, we'll be talking about him in the 2027 draft. But Kinnard, like, for as good as this defense has been in South Carolina, he's the dog.

You know, he's the alpha male. He's the guy who's out there making plays always around the football. 15% pressure rate is what I read the other day and I buy it because it seems like just consistently he's creating, creating pressures, wreaking havoc. Eight and a half sacks, 23 pressures this year. What I love on tape, right, with Kinnard is that some guys have great. takeoffs like that first three steps we're always talking about that and you know like when we're watching and evaluating players i like to i like to watch the the sideline normally you want to watch the end zone copy when you're evaluating tape you get the scoreboard is the first screen then you swipe it

next screen is going to be the the sideline copy right and that usually is when you're watching defensive backs wide receivers you can see all 22 it's called the all 22 and usually when you're watching the trenches you want to watch that that end zone copy but But with the edge rushers and even defensive tackles, when you're trying to look at that get off, that take off the first few steps, I always watch the all 22, because you can get a sense of who's getting off the ball the fastest.

It's a combination of two things with pass rushers. When you're talking about that first three steps, snap anticipation and then the burst off of the line of scrimmage. He's got both. That's what I love about it. Like he knows like the second that ball snap. You watch Joey Bosa, right? Nick Bosa. The bosses are as good as anyone in the league at that.

Snap anticipation, firing off the ball. And then in addition, he's got the burst. He's got enough speed to get around the edge, good with his hands, but an unrelenting motor. So Kyle Kinnard is a player that I viewed as, you know, mid-round prospect, somewhere early day three coming into the year. I think when we come out with our first top 100, he might be in the top 50. What do you think? I couldn't agree more. I mean, you go back to the LSU tape, and I think that was kind of his coming out party.

And you look at that game and he had two costly penalties. And if you're the average college football fan, you might be like, wow, this guy, tough game for him. I'm watching it. And I'm like, this guy can get after the quarterback. Yeah, sure, the penalties, something to take into account. But I'm watching him. He's winning around the corner. He's crossing those.

I mean, those are talented offensive tackles. We've talked a lot about him on the show. He's crossing their face. He's winning the inside. I love the versatility, the ability to kick. inside and then again the the it's it doesn't make it's not the defining quality of what a great eddresser is but that motor he is an absolute dog and i'm excited i'm excited to see him this week because this is a texas a and m team and we'll get into that game a little bit more in an a and m teams

offensive line continues to improve right and now have marcel reid a quarterback run heavy run centric offense not necessarily not necessarily his specialty and we'll get into all these things but how does he perform, setting a hard edge versus the run. How disruptive can he be? So that's a good test for him. Who do you got? Who's your guy this week? I'm going to go with the Virginia Tech Edge, Antoine Powell, Riland, who somehow is second

in the FBS with 11 sacks and feels like he's flying under the radar. And I remember watching him against BC earlier this year, four sacks in that game looked absolutely unblockable. And when I watched him, I love, he's got that snap in his hips when he transitions from speed to power, can kind of run over guy. And then he's got that ability to dip and bend when he's at the top of his rush, which I think is what you're looking for in elite edge rushers. My little bit of a concern is he's on the lighter side.

He's got to get a little bit stronger against the run. But when you're an edge guy, you make your money getting after the quarterback. And this is a guy who get after the quarterback. And I know I love my comps because, you know, they just bring all kinds of attention for me. But I see him a little bit of Alex Highsmith, the Steelers outside. Okay. All right. Yeah.

I got to, like it gives me that kind of a vibe. That same high spit's a little bit lighter, but same kind of build and just that ability to absolutely get after the quarterback. We know that smooth beard. You're an attention, horridch. I know your game. All right. Last guy for me.

We're going to do two guys, two my guys this week. Auburn running back, Jarkas Hunter. I've like a guy for a while, but I feel like he's never been like, I don't know what I'm saying featured, but he's never been. that elite group, like all the great running effects we have this year. We'll get into that more with Jim Nagy later. But to me, to see what Jarkwez is starting to do and becoming a major part of that Auburn offense, it's fun to watch.

I remember back with Jarquez, right? I remember back to 2021, watching a game against Penn State, Fowler, Herb Street, that crew. It's a prime time game. and there's this freshman running back that I don't know anything about watching this game and all of a sudden he's down the right takes the edge, he's gets good speed, turns the corner, and instead of taking on the defender, he hurdles him. Not always the best idea for a running back, hurdles them successfully. It was a big play for them.

Really close game, if I remember correctly. I think it was a one touchdown game in the end, Penn State 1. But I remember that play specifically because I remember jumping on my phone and being like, all right, who's this guy? And it just keeps, you know. Six with you, right. Yeah. So when you look at Hunter, like he's having a really good season so far,

120 carries, 8663 rushing yards already, Munch, three touchdowns, or five touchdowns. The thing that I like to with all these running backs, you got to be able to catch the football and contribute in the passing game. He has 60 career receptions. Right. I've watched him, you know, against LSU, I think it was a couple years ago, adjusting to the ball down the sideline,

the ability to pluck away from. from his frame. And when I watch him, he's not one of those like, guys, you know, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, you know, it doesn't have the most wiggle. But he really does a great job of run. He runs low to the ground, contact balance, which like the more I scout, the longer I've been in this, that's like number one to me.

It jumped out big time to me for a guy's not, you know, over, he's not a big back. I wouldn't call him a big power. No, he's, he's, um, the contact balance is great. He's like five, nine, but he's two hundred and nine. pound so he's tightly packed yeah but he it take and he's not running over dudes but he's he's he's continuing runs after initial contact and then the speed you know at the burst when like it's not even necessarily one cutting go but the burst off of cuts and the burst um you know when when he breaks off of you know breaks through contact his burst in the open field is really impressive so yeah we talk

about slow two and quick through the hole yeah that jumped out to me too yes takes his time let those blocks go and then he drops the hammer and accelerates it all. This running back class is loaded, dude. Legit. Right. I'm excited about it. It'll be interesting to see where they all go because, you know, positional value,

but there's going to be a lot of good backs to come out. Yeah, it's going to be Ashton Genti, somewhere in the top 15 picks is my guess. I would think so. And it'll be round two is my other guess. Maybe you see like Judkins from Ohio State, former Ole Miss running back, get to sneak in late first.

But I think we're going to have like, like a historic run and it won't even be in the second there'll be a couple guys in the second but like third, fourth, fifth round maybe a historic run at running back. Speaking of running backs,

who do you got? Who's your other? My guy. I'm going with the North Carolina running back of Mara and Hampton. A guy's listed at 220 pounds, right? Mm-hmm. I look at the size in the NFL.

These are some of the backs that are, you know, similar bill to him. You got Ramandez Stevenson out of New England. You got Nick Chubb for Cleveland. You've got Joe Mixing in Houston. Sequin's a little bit bigger. He's 233. He's actually, I mean, Sequin's a unicorn, but same grouping, I would think.

And then Jonathan Taylor from the Colts, all these 220-ish poundbacks. And I see that power. I see that ability to break tackles. I see that ability to push the pile when you don't get a seam in short yardage situations. And I also see the speed. And when I think about that speed and I think about that build, another comp for me would be mixing. I think he's got that kind of. ability. I'm not sure he's as refined in the passing game, but I do think he's got upside in that

area, and I think he's a guy who has the toughness and the strength to hold up and pass, bro. I think he's in the, I think he might be in the running two, running back to mix when it's all said and done. I do have Junkins ahead of them right now, but I think Hampton could be there. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I'll just ask you in Genty from Boise State, Junkins and Henderson from Ohio State. These aren't necessarily our rankings, but. Right. Hampton, who you just talked. about North Carolina, Caleb Johnson, Iowa, Nicholas Singleton, Penn State, Ali Gordon, Oklahoma State, Hunter, who I mentioned from Auburn, Trevor E.T.N. from Georgia, Dylan Samson, what he's done

carrying the load for Tennessee. Dylan Manangai from Rutgers, Jaden Ott, Cal, Rahim Sanders, from South Carolina. I literally could go like Cal Martinez from Miami's been outstanding the last two weeks. Yeah, Colell Mullings emerging out of nowhere from Michigan, RJ Harv, from UCF. And there's like seven, eight more dudes. Yeah, they're all dudes.

They're all, I think they're all gonna play and contribute early in the NFL. But the running back position's dead. I didn't give you a comp. How about, I didn't give you a comp for, uh,

Jarkas Hunter. What about Aaron Jones? Ooh, I like that. Similar bill, like five nine, two, 10.

Right. Not the most overpowering, but contact balance can catch. I don't know. Just someone to throw out there. All right. I like it. Let's flip the script a little bit here.

Next up, we want to get to, and we're going to do this every week. It's probably going to be on Thursdays. Start with, that's my guy. And then number two, we always got to get to where are the scouts this week? This gives us an opportunity to kind of break down some of the biggest games, what the scouts are looking for. And we always, you know, when you get reports late in the week when everyone's filled it out and the scouts let, you know, the PR people for schools know,

And it's like 26 scouts there, including two GMs. The games to me, like there are some secondary games. I'll just list up. There's some secondary games where scouts will be, like Duke, Michigan, obviously Florida, Georgia. Duke Miami, right? Sorry, Duke Miami. Did I say Michigan? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's why you're here, Matt. You always pick up my slack. Duke Miami at Miami, Florida, Georgia, right? Obviously, the rivalry game, there's loads of talent at Georgia. summit Florida not as much i was going through i sorted our interesting right tell document today i was like hmm only a few guys from florida pit smu sneaky game smu with the one loss yeah going up against pit

undefeated is a sneaky game kentucky tennessee is another one more so again more so tennessee but that's another one so those are like the the b listers if you will right To me, the A-listers are, and I'll list off the three and we can get into each game. Ohio State, Penn State. We had a great conversation with Joel Clap the other. Unbelievable. What a guy. What a great guy.

Great guy. Great stories. Incredible detail and just, you know, and I don't even analysis as much, and it was analysis, but it just like you can tell why he's so prepared and he's at the pinnacle of the game, right? Right. When we sat down and talked about what we wanted to get from the guests we had on each week, that was exactly it. Yeah.

And more to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. So Ohio State of Penn State's a noon game. Oregon, Michigan is the 330 game. And then A&M, Texas A&M, South Carolina, A&M coming off, that huge win against LSU. First place in the SEC. Wouldn't want to go into Columbia this week, though.

No. You know, so we'll get to that. All right. Ohio State, Penn State. I'm going to give you a few things to jump out to me from a game stamp. point from a scouting standpoint and you you take it where you want to go obviously the big the big conversation in this game is drew aller how much is he going to be available if at all and if not bo probula comes in what was the 11 of 13 passing um just looked really good the offense is clicking

with them in fact you i mean i would argue the offense looked better in the second half against boston than it did in the first half with with aller in there so so that's like the big story and the big question mark coming into the game. The other big story, which we touched on a lot with Joel, the left tackle position for Ohio State. And just so people understand, like, Josh Simmons doesn't have a ton of game reps, who was the former starting left tackle,

but he was emerging. I mean, he was emerging, like talking to scouts, like this could be a first rounder. Right. He was in the, I think he was a day two with a real chance to move up. And so he's trending that way. Yeah. So he gets injured and they bring in the backup.

Zen Mikalski, I think. Mikalski, right? Struggles. I mean, you know, this show is not about beating guys down. Yeah, we don't need to pile on. Not a good game. Got dinged up in that game. They went down to their number three offensive tackle.

So the word is, and we got it from Joel and I keep reading it too, they're now going to move Donovan Jackson, who's an NFL draft prospect, from the left guard position to left tackle is my understanding and then Luke Montgomery who's a sophomore I don't know much about he he's going to plug into that left guard spot so now it's like it's like the age old question are you better off just like plugging in the guy at left tackle which is the most important position protecting the blind side or are you now potentially going to create vulnerability at two spots your entire left left side of the line so that's something we obviously are going to go to take a you know good hard look at and it couldn't be a worse week

to be trying to figure things out on your offensive line going up against Abdul Carter and this defensive front for, you know, it doesn't sound like Dennis Sutton. Right. He's listed as questionable. When we talked to Joel, it didn't sound like he was going to play.

But, yeah, we'll take a look at that. But this defensive front is always loaded with dudes for Penn State. Yeah, on that note, I think a guy that we have not talked about that we might be talking about, on Tuesday or Saturday night is the defensive tackle Zane Durant. He's an undersized guy. Give me something, Munch. What do you got?

I think he could be, we talk about, when you talk about Donovan Jackson, kicking out to left tackle, and you already had concerns that right guard. I mean, I said that coming out of that game, you know, the left tackle took a lot of heat, but your right guard wasn't a great, great game for the right guard for Ohio State. So now you are kicking out your All-American Guard to tackle. You're going to be, there's a little, there's a lot of questions. on the inside all of a sudden. And you have a guy in Zane Durant from Penn State,

who I think is kind of flown under the radar. He's a junior. We'll see what he does in terms of coming out. But undersized, it's super explosive. And he could be a problem for them. Early penetration, you know, that's the worst thing for a quarterback is getting pressure in your face right away.

And then you're trying to get that running game going and you're going to give up penetration. He could be a problem for that team. Yeah, and Dennis Sutton, I just mentioned, he was out last week against Wisconsin and came, the guy who came in for him, a mean Vanover. I was talking to Rosillo on Monday. And he was asking me, like, who would you watching college football this week

where you had to look him up and were like, this guy's a dude? And I, so to me, it was that edge for Penn State, Vanover. Yeah. At 6-5-258 came in and had five quarterback pressures. So it'll be interesting to see what that, with that defensive front can do. On the flip side, you got Ohio State's defense of defense, which, talked about it a lot. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole again. Not everyone playing up to elite level. And Joel, I don't want to say confirmed, but agreed that

a bunch of day two mid-round guys on Ohio State, bunch of veterans should be playing better individually and as a result of not playing to the elite level. Again, I don't want Ohio State fans to think that we're like tearing this group apart. Very talented. You got two veteran edge who are really talented. Sawyer and J.T. You've got two good cornerbacks who have been up and down this year, but very talented.

Denzel Burke coming in with all the hype. Igbenosin, the other cornerback, Davison Igbenosin, is a really talented guy who's been rising this year. But when you look at this group, they haven't played to the level that you would expect, and there's not, like, as I mentioned before, it's not Alabama.

It's not Georgia, like when they're at their best, four or five guys in the first round, six, seven, eight guys in the top 100. It's just not that. So it's going to be interesting. Now you got Penn State. Quarterback. What's the situation there? I do love Nicholas Singleton, six foot, 226 pounds. Got off to a fast start, missed the UCLA game.

Only 22 carries the last two weeks. I'm expecting to see a little bit more a Singleton in this game, though. Yeah, absolutely. And then you get the one-two punch with Allen coming in. I'll say this. Ohio State's defensive tackles, I like too, which you didn't mention, but you mentioned pretty much everyone else. But there are defensive attackers are good. They've been good against the run.

But this is a, it's a talented group that Penn State's bringing in. And depending who's that quarterback, if you have Pribula, is that how you say it? Probula. Yeah, it's going to be a different kind of attack from Penn State, a little more difficult for them to defend. So it would be interesting to see how that run defense, which has been pretty, Stout holds up against that kind of a rushing attack. We've talked a lot about Colston Loveland, tight end from Michigan. We talked a lot about your boy, Mason Taylor, who made you look like a jerk in the first

play. He was, he was, he was one of the, that's my guy last week. Yeah, what happened to my guy on that first? He dropped the touchdown, but then, then caught another one a few plays later. We both love him. And we've talked a lot, and I talked about, I think last week, and that, that's my guy, guys, have been really, really, like, enjoying watching this season. Elijah Arroyo from, from Miami.

Yeah. Gunner Helms, another one from Texas. Gunner, yeah. He's group's pretty good. But Tyler Warren Penn State. And just knowing his background, dad's of, dad's a safety from Richmond. Did you know that?

I did not know that. Yeah, man. That's awesome. That's why you get to keep in touch with your former coach, Frank Leonard. I knew he was a Mechanicsville kid. I knew that. Yeah, dad was a safety at the university. University of Richmond played for the spiders.

That's awesome. But Tyler Warren, just a great dude absolutely loves the game. Versatility, even snapped the ball last week for what that's worth, and it's not worth much as NFL Scout. But I mean, that wasn't the last way, a couple weeks ago, and when he had 17 catches versus USC. But I asked, I asked Joel, like, who are the other weapons that are going to step up? And he gave some great answers.

but I'm interested to see against this talented defense for Ohio State, better athleticism at linebacker, better cover guys at safety than at USC. How can he be productive? You know, what's the production level that he's going to provide? Does he separate? Does he get in and out of breaks? Does he work back to his quarterback?

Is it a young quarterback that he's working with that he's still figuring out how to open? Those are the little things that I want to watch in this game specifically to see, truly like how much he's grown from a year ago. Because so far, the tape says it's, he was awesome last year. And he's, he's thrived in this role. Remember, Theo Johnson got drafted last year. Now he's become the guy.

And he's proven he can handle it. Yeah, he doesn't necessarily have to separate. Well, he's six foot six, 261 pounds. Separation for me, a tight end is late separation as much as anything. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, just to be clear. Yeah, how do they physically separate? Not so much for the quick,

change a direction kind of things. But that's one of the things that I think separates him from this tight end group is he is 6'6, 260 pounds for a tight end these days. I mean, that's huge. And to see the body control and the way he can track the ball, I'm excited to see what he does. I do think a lot of it will depend on who's that quarterback and how well that quarterback play.

So we'll see. This game's fascinating to me, man. like Ryan Day. I looked it up today. I'm terrible with this stuff. But like, I think he's lost his last four versus top five opponents. James Franks like James Franklin never wins against top five opponents.

Like something's got to give, right? It feels like it's Penn State's here, but it can't be Penn State's here. It's never Penn State's here, right? I'm taking Penn State plus a three and a half. I like it. I'm not a Jay. I'm unapologetic in that I am not a James Franklin guy.

We'll leave it at that. We don't have to go into detail, reasoning, or anything else. I'm not a James Franklin guy. But I think with the offensive line and the issues that they're having, I could see Ohio State coming out and playing its best game of the year. Right. I want that as a Caval. Yeah.

We said this. But I also are going to lean Penn State and Ohio State by 10. That's what that's what will happen. Okay. So you're so gun to head. You're taking Ohio State. I'm taking Penn State. All right.

I just feels different. It just feels different. If you're listening out there, I would race to your, I would race to Fandul. I would race to Fandul right now and give the points to Ohio State. All right. So that, that's kind of, that's all we've got for Penn State, Ohio State. Like, I'm going to be parked for that game at noon on Fox. All right, 3.30 game, Oregon, Michigan.

Oregon minus 14 and a half. Feels like a fair spread. Yep. You got Davis Warren back in it quarterback. It has been a carousel for. Michigan, right? NFL scouts have a lot of other positions that they're scouting in this game. No question about Dylan Gabriel, obviously, potential late round pick, played the best ball of his life. We've seen what Stein has done with him, the offensive coordinator. And certainly what

Bo Nix, the success he experienced with Stein in that Oregon offense a year ago and what that propelled him to, it's not going to be the same rise for Gabriel. But he can't be playing much better than he is, you know? Right. So if there's a quarterback you're looking at in this game, it's obviously him. But so much other talent on, I'm just going to list off some of the top guys. Derek Harmon, I featured, I think it was last week, players to watch it are rising. I think Harmon is former Michigan State defensive lineman, three technique.

He's a player that really is rising could be a top 50 pick. The wide receivers for Oregon. You got Evan Stewart and Tess Johnson, both having terrific years. right on the on the on the um and terence for uh fergus as well tight end for Oregon so there are some dudes on that side of the ball don't don't forget about my guy a johnny cornelia's the right tackle i think he's a guy i got it's day two who can move up to yeah i'm just looking you got a you got a 67 i'm not going to let any offensive line and slide by 60 67 grade on him means means early third but i mean early fourth but you're thinking maybe you could work into into day two

Okay. On the flip side, like it's really about the defense. If I'm breaking down this game, right, the one thing I really want to watch, this Oregon offensive line, if you're looking at all the position groups, Oregon offensive line has been vulnerable. Hasn't been terrible, but it's just been adequate, I'd say. Started off really slow in the first couple of games has improved, but there's been vulnerability. It's had its trouble. now if you're going to give an edge anywhere to Michigan it's this defensive front against that Oregon offensive line and so you talk about Mason Graham potential top five top seven pick at defensive tackle might be the best player in this draft by the way regardless of position I know that you do you always love Michigan defensive tackles uh that is I didn't think of that I hadn't thought about that it's 100% right and I'm not going to apologize for it yeah you've got well maybe you should uh Kenneth grant the other defensive tackle best best defensive tackle group inside defensive line group in college football.

There's no question on my mind. Josiah Stewart. Those, you know, so those speed off the edge. Speed off the edge. So this defense, if Michigan has any chance of pulling off this upset in the big house, it's got to be Graham Grant Stewart and the gang up front, right? Especially because it's, I don't, I've been checking. I don't think it looks good for Will Johnson to play.

That was my next point. And in Michigan secondary has been a weakness. this year. Surprising. I mean, Will Johnson, 100% healthy has played great

in spurts. But he hasn't, he hasn't totally been himself. He's been nicked up. And when he's healthy, though, he's the best pure corner.

Travis Hunter's in a different, a different category because he can both sides, what he can do in the offensive side at wide receiver. But Will Johnson, like, he is special.

Patrick Sir, Patrick Sir Tann. Sure. That's totally fair. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, I like that. All right.

So that to me is going to be the matchup. You got to watch because if Oregon can protect and if Stein can scheme it up where Gabriel has time, they've got the weapons. This could get ugly in Ann Arbor. It could. But I don't think they do. I don't think they have the offensive line. I think this is going to be a dog fight.

Really? Oregon's, yep, yep, yep, yeah, yeah. I think they're walking into a major trap here, Oregon. I'm not saying Michigan's going to win. but my fan dual folks out there take the 14 and a half Michigan is going to step up they are going to play great defensively they are going to frustrate Gabriel we've been waiting for Gabriel to have one of those games and he's had him in the past like he's good for us yeah plays really well in nine games and there's three games where he doesn't play to his level and I think this is I'm not saying he's going to throw a dud out there I don't I just don't think that's where he is but I think he's going to struggle more in this game than he has all season. And I don't think those weapons are going to be able to exploit the secondary the way they should because of the trouble up front.

Now offensively, like, sheesh, they're going to have a hard time keeping pace, even if Oregon's not going at the clip they usually go at. I agree. That's why I'm not taking the outright. Right, the money line, yeah. But give me that 14 and a hook. That hook is appealing to me, you know? I love it.

I can see that, I can see, you know, like it goes from sunny and R. I've been in that stadium so many. I probably cover Michigan more than any other school during my like 12 years out on the road, right? Right. The sun goes down. It gets kind of dark in there. It gets a little colder.

I know Oregon's not like Miami playing there, but it's just a different vibe in the second half. I could see this game just being a little bit ugly and a little bit, just scary at the end for Oregon. Yeah. All right. That's all you got. Who do you like?

you're going to take you're going to give the points aren't you uh i could see michigan covering my concern is that this michigan team coming off the year that they had last year all the injuries the concerns at quarterback are they they going to be amped up like you would be if the number one team came to come to came into your stadium of course they're going to be stamped up what the fuck are you talking about i mean i don't know man it's been a tough year for michigan yeah but these i mean This is, if you get any juice left in the tank, and I'm assuming they do. We'll see. All right.

All right. Last one, rip through this. Texas A&M, South Carolina, right? Defensive lines. Yeah, man, I'm excited. Let's go. I mean, we touched on a lot of it already, but South Carolina's past defense is elite, but only average versus the run vulnerable between the tackles.

If you're looking for something like, can, nay, can South Carolina stop the inside run? Right. to me, like that that's going to be, that's going to be critical. On the flip side, defensive line for A&M, clear advantage. That's where I think A&M is going to win this game. Clear advantage versus South Carolina's offensive line. Nick Scorton, we've talked a lot about him, having a great year. The year you would expect for a guy who's looking at coming out in the 2025 NFL draft.

And another player, I was watching the tape the other day. Sherman Stewart, defensive tackle for A&M. Shamar Stewart, right? Both shamars are awesome, man. Is it, is it Shamar? Shamar. Shamar. Shamar.

Yeah. It's a good thing I can watch the tape and don't need the names. Good thing. We got 177 days until the NFL draft. Shamar Stewart, sorry, 6-6, 290 pounds. He's long, he's long, versatile. They move him around, quick and powerful. That's what I want defensive tackles inside guys, quick and powerful, you know?

And that's what he's got some jolt in his hands. So those are the two. guys in the defensive line that I'm looking, looking forward to watching in this game. What else you got in that? Both Shemars. Give me Samar Turner and Samar Stewart. I think both those guys are studs. South Carolina, you know, we've talked around their edges a little bit, but don't forget

about my guy. The safety, Nick, even Worry on the back end. I know. How could we? Big stage for him to continue to make plays. So I'm excited to see what he does. But yeah, it's really, I mean, I'm not going to overcomplicate this. This is the defensive lines.

If you're a defensive line coach in the NFL, this is a tape that you are absolutely throwing in to see how these guys play. I'm starting to buy Texas A&M a lot, as we've talked about all week long coming off that LSU game. If they can go into Columbia night game and take care of business against a scary defense and a South Carolina team that's just hung tight and has played good ball all year long, I will be thoroughly impressed. impressed. You know? Yeah. If they can come in and control this game, they're a two and a half point spread.

Vegas is expecting this to be tight. I would take A&M. I just, I just trust Elko more. It's weird to trust an A&M coach and an A&M program. It's always been about like the flash and the recruits and just, and never has lived up to the excitement and the hype and the 12th man and all the other stuff that comes to that this team feels grounded.

Like there's a foundation. I'm excited to see this game. Yeah, I agree. All right. I think we get some imaging this week. Let's go. Where would Todd be this week? Let's let's toss to it, Metsch.

Let's see what we got. That seems about right. That's great. I mean, it's so ridiculous that it actually is great. I'm here for it. So where would I be this week? You ready? Every week I'm going to give you my first four or five years working with the war room before

it became Scout saying I had like an unbelievable opportunity. I was 23 years old. flying around and driving around the country like I was a GM, you know. GMs get a week off. They try to squeeze in three games. It's two college games in the weekend and an NFL game. So I'm going back to those days. I'm going to be the GM.

Where would I be? What would my trip look like? And it always has to include food. I'd start at Vandy. I'd start at Vandy Auburn, okay? Not great prospects, but we already talked about Jarkas Hunter, the running back. There's dudes at Fandy. There's dudes at Auburn.

Enough to justify the trip. Bingo. You just got to sell it to the boss, you know? Yeah, the boss is like, oh, SEC game, okay. So you're going to get me two games on Saturday? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm going to get you two games.

Work with me here. What he doesn't know, what he doesn't know is that this first game is all about Friday night. We'll get back to that in a second. So what I'm going to do is I'm going, Vandy Auburn, hard out at 3 o'clock, no matter where the game is. I'm not there to be a fan. I'm not polling for Vandy in the upset. I'm not pulling for Auburn in this game.

Actually, might not even be an upset. I'm not sure. But I'm not pulling for either of these teams. So at 3 o'clock wheels up in a car because I'm not flying privately. Wheels up in the car. All right. And we're hitting the road.

Four hours we're going. It says 435 on the maps, you know, but I'm going to make it in 4, 410. I will be in Columbia. Yeah. Yes, I will. You may have a ticket, but I will be there. I will be in Columbia, South Carolina by 710 to get the kickoff there. What an awesome environment that's going to be. Like, I can't wait to watch that.

There's something fun about a South Carolina night game with all, you know, all the stuff they get going on. So I'm going to be there for that night, okay? And then I wake up the next morning, another three hour or so drive to Atlanta. And I got the Cowboys at the Falcons. That's the weekend. The highlight, though, is this. And we got to put up the graphic.

I'm telling you of all my stops, all over this beautiful country of ours, all the diners, the great restaurants, the five stars, the places that people don't know about. I've got a list on my phone that goes from miles. 12 years on the road doing this, another five, like seven years before that. I did like three years in studio in between seven years before that scouting, going out with Mike Godfrey and Ron Franklin early in my early days up. I've been around. Food is everything to me.

I am, I've got to tell you about this place, man. I'm going to get you down to Auburn. I might have to stop on the way down to Mobile, Alabama for the senior board. I'm flying now, baby. Acre. Acre. When in Auburn, you got to go to Acre. Here's the menu.

Hats off to our guys for getting this up as a graphic. All right, I want to talk you through this. Here's how you do it. Okay. The last meal I had was about, I don't know, four or five years ago with Steve Levy and Brian Greasy and we rolled out of there and we might have stumbled a little bit too but we rolled out of there after it was probably a three and a half hour dinner okay we came in and obviously very kind to us brought basically everything but here's what you have to have when you're at acre in auburn

Alabama come in I'm not like a big whiskey guy but come in and get your get your cocktail sit at the bar before you go sit down and start with a couple snacks they call it first snack you got to have chicken fried bacon sawmill gravy vermont maple syrup barbecue pecans it's unbelievable much and then you're starting out with this so you got you got to really prepare you can't have lunch light breakfast then you go to the lacquered corn bread honey hot sauce butter onsen mills i don't even know what that was but bean seeds like the some of the best cornbread i've ever had in my life and i've spent a lot of time in the south over the years. Then you get a starter when you go move over to your table.

Get a start. Start things up. The gas station boudan balls. Spicy mustard sauce, bar, uh, the B&B pickles. All right. So you, I'd like to get everything and I've done everything there. But then you got to move to the butcher block. Pace yourself, right?

Butcher block. All the chakouterie, all the cheese, all the fixings family style. And then you get down to the entree. Like, I'm always least excited about the entree. But you got you got all these off the Gulf brown shrimp rigatone. Yeah. The Maple Leap duck breast. And then I've had this before.

You ready? The redfish on the half shell with decan butter. This place is unbelievable. So that's my trip. That's why. And it would be Acre. So if you're out there, folks at Acre, hats off to you. Two major green flags on this, on this menu.

Fall 2024. Love the seasonal menus, man. love when you know they're changing it up to to get what's what's fresh then what's the best ingredients in season and anything with snacks if you have a snack section of your menu you know it's going to make me happy it's going to make me happy david bancroft does not bleep around you know like this is i'm telling like in new york city la like this is but it's but it's even better because it's like it's down south you know right it's that level quality of food but it's like and you're like tucked in there you get the Auburn fans on Friday night like

the environment's the best the absolute best so hats off to to chef and owner David Bancrope and I can't wait to get back down there so that's it for this week mentioned we got our guy Jim Nagy executive director of the senior bowl long time friend he's been around the NFL he knows the scouting circuit and all the players as well as anybody out there it's a great opportunity to talk to him. We're going to be talking to him a lot on the McShea show coming up, leading up to and through the NFL draft. This is the first time we've been able to bring him on. Really excited to have Jim. The McShay show is presented by Fandual. Get out your game day gear this college football season on Fandual. Because right now, all customers get a profit boost every college

football Saturday. That's every single Saturday. One game I'm looking long and hard at this weekend, Penn State versus Ohio State. Buckeyes go into a tough environment, happy valley. Offensive line is struggling. This might be the one where Penn State finally turns the corner and wins the big game. Boost your winnings on bets like spreads, over-unders, method of

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Bonus issued as non-witrowerable profit boost. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Nagy, how are you, brother? Welcome back, man.

Welcome back to the draft space. Tom McShay. It's been a minute. Good to see you, buddy. I'm not going to give you some long, formal introductions. It's just not how we do it here. But I will tell you, so Medge, remember we talk to you, and you guys know each other very well.

We've all kind of worked together and around each other for two and a half decades. But I was telling the story the other day, Munch about when I was, you know, interning with Gary Horton in Arizona, moved up to New York City, making 12 grand that first year. What I didn't explain to people was a couple things. One, I was living on Gary's couch in a one bedroom in Midtown Manhattan, which was less than ideal. Okay. And God, and let's just say, God bless Gary Horton, you know, God, God, God. rest of soul, an absolute character, the absolute best, but also just the story is never ending.

So anyway, so I was mentioned like, what was it, 57th and 7th in Midtown Manhattan, 27th floor, I think it was. We're up there with like David Fock, who's reppping Michael Jordan and all that. So I walk in the first day and I'm like, I don't know what to expect. And I walk into an office. It's not even our office. It's more Nagy's office than it is Gary Horton's office because Nagy's working with with Mike George, who was an agent,

had a lot of players, a lot of like Florida guys, all that. So Gary Horton, who's 3, 330, 350. He's a big dude. He's a big man. He's a man.

He's in the corner at Mike George's desk. Nagy, and this is like the size of of one executive's office, not like a head coach in college football, but like just an executive office space. Nagy's sitting in the other corner and I walk in and it's like all right I walk in and I pull up

at table now I'm like staring at Gary you know my computer and chair I pull up staring at Gary we're back to back and we're off and running it was the most dysfunctional off I mean he was cutting his toenails in the middle of the office but it was it was the most

dysfunctional company in the history of companies we're all squatting inside this agent's office who lived down in Florida But it turns out, like, you know, Dean Dalton worked with us. He wound up working for the Vikings as a running backs coach. Nagy went on to be, you know, Patriots winning Super Bowl rings, Chiefs, Seahawks, and now the executive director with the senior bowl. And that's my brief introduction.

I'm sure we could do stories for days, man. But we do appreciate your time and plan on having you as many times as you'll come on with us. But thanks for joining us, bud. Yeah, man. You forgot Mike Levine, too, the president of. of CAA sports. Vino's big time. Venos made it bigger than anybody. So, yeah, that was where

we could do like an intro. Every time I come on, we could do like one Gary's story per episode or something. I don't know what rated this, what rated your program is man, but no, it's cool. I mean, think about that. We are both like

young idiots in our 20s and we were in this corner office in Midtown Manhattan overlooking Central Park in Midtown. I mean, that seems like a It seems like a lifetime ago, dude, like that doesn't even seem like the same person live that life as us right now. But yeah, so it's been awesome. It's awesome to see what you've done.

And it's cool to have you back in the space. Like I said, like you've contributed so much to the draft space over the years. And again, like when we were young, dude, like I wanted to be with a team and you wanted to do what you did. So that was kind of cool. Like we split off and won our own paths, but we both went the ways we wanted to go. So, but no, I mean, whether people want to give you credit or not or admit it or not, like, you're a big reason why a lot of people love the draft now, man.

Like, you've seen, like, a whole generation of, like, young people into, like, their 30s and 40s now, man. So it's cool to have you back. I appreciate it, brother. And it's amazing how life works, like, full circle, working in that office, just a couple, idiots. And now, like, probably closer friends than ever before. So I've appreciated our friendship and relationship over the years. let's get down to business bud like we're gearing up January last week in January the senior bowl is coming up

feels like it you know we're getting closer and closer as we go February 1st is the is the Risi senior bowl this year mench will be down there if we can get them on that plane I'll be down there I'm sure I'll be bugging you like a week before because my hotel room won't be right um that sounds about right yeah yeah we got a longstanding tradition um you and LL Albert Breer every year. Albert, you and Albert Breer every year is the late hotel guys. Bert Breer keeps following me around. Like I just live in the south end of Boston. He was a block away. I didn't know. Found out like a year and a half later. Now I'm down to Cohasson to South Shore. He's like two towns down in Duxbury just found out like a week ago. Anyway, so yeah,

Bert, I can see that. A couple, couple of masts holes messing everything up. Let's get to it. Obviously, we're, I'd like to be unlike a lot of other shows, but we do want to talk quarterbacks for a minute. I texted you the other night about Garrett Nussmeyer. We both love them. Like love the dude, love the it factor, the competitiveness. As a player, like the

anticipation, changing arm angles. He has the mental, like the gun slinging. But it's funny going on X and Twitter, whatever you call it, and you know, everyone's racing. He's my QB1. He says, but like the more tape I watch, I just wonder,

would it be best for him to come back another year or is he going to be ready to go after this year? I'm not asking you to answer that question necessarily, but I do know that you're closer to this than anybody out there. And I'm just curious, like, what you're hearing, what you think? You know, what do you think with Nussmeyer in this year's quarterback class? Yeah, I think, excuse me, he's an interesting one. I think if he does come out, I do think he's going to be a first-round pick. I do think he's got the highest upside of anyone in this draft.

But you're talking about a really small sample size. I mean, when we were, I went to SEC media days over the summer. And before I went down the first day, knowing I was going to be asked about Nussmeyer, I rolled through that Wisconsin bowl game. And I was like, wow, is there a lot to like? I mean, I saw him. I went to a practice last year in August to see he, to see Jaden Daniels throw. And Nussmire, I was like, wow, like I knew his name, right?

Like we both know his dad. We both do schools with his dad. Doug Nussmeyer, you know, for people that don't know, he's the quarterback's coach of the Philadelphia Eagles now. has spent a lot of time across college football, Michigan, Alabama, Florida, number of different places. But I didn't know how good. I didn't know as talented as son was. So we're watching practice.

I'm like, oh, my God, this kid can absolutely rip it. And then you have the one game to go off. So rolling into this year, like, that one game, there was so much good stuff. I was excited to see him. So I do think of it. Yeah, and the other night, like, it's just hilarious, you know, sitting on Twitter, you know, during a game. and seeing, it's just, I don't know, it's, it's kind of entertaining. We all do it.

Very, yeah. But, you know, and mildly frustrating to say the least. I think the biggest thing with any three of those picks the other night, again, to the gunslinger thing, first of all, if we can address that, I like it. I don't know. Yeah, I said it as a positive. You know, maybe it's my first job in the league was around Brett Farr. I feel like you can rein that in.

It's hard to coach balls into a player. Like, and you got to have some. balls to play at the next level. You got those windows are going to be smaller. You have to trust your arm to a degree. You've got to let it rip. And he's got that. So does he need to be smarter sometimes with the football?

There's no doubt. You know, I think a couple of those interceptions the other night were just inexperience. I don't think he saw the coverage right. Yeah, he got, he got tricked. And now he'll go through some great stuff at him. Give Mike Elko a ton of credit. I mean, he's one of the best defensive coordinators in college football. He's got a couple good corners and he threw some stuff at him.

So that being said. I do think Garrett's going to make a smart decision because obviously he's coming from a football family. He's got his dad. It's not like he's in a hardship situation where he's trying to rush to the NFL to like make ends meet and provide for his family. So that being said, where the NFL is at right now in shoot. I mean, look at where we're at coming out of yesterday. Yes. With Richardson with the Colts. I mean, you're getting thrown to the fire. If you get drafted early, ready or not, here it comes. I mean, I don't. Drake May is never going to start his. rookie, right? Right. Of course not. Here we are week five or whatever it was, Drake May's in there.

So that's going to happen. So if you're not getting developmental reps in the NFL, why not go back for another year and get him in the SEC? Play 13, 14, 15 more games, see the game more, let it slow down and then come out and then come out next year. I could see it happen in either way. I don't think he can make a bad decision because I think if he comes out this year, he will be a first round pick because there's just way too much talent there. make up and in fact, like you said, I mean, coach's kid. I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff wrapped up in that background. And if he stays, you can't second guess that either. He's going to go back and he's going to be on a good team and he's going to see a lot more and be more NFL ready

because that is a hard freaking league and we're seeing it with Anthony Richardson right now. We saw it with Zach Wilson. We've seen it with a lot of guys. We're seeing it with Bryce Young. So yeah, that will be interesting. That will be over the next like six weeks. That's going to be one of the more interesting things to follow when it comes to the draft space is what is Garrett Nussmeyer doing. Yeah, and it's, I think one people, NFL scouts get to know these guys in and out, the human being, the character, you know, them as the person. And I think you and I are kind in similar unique positions where like, I'm rooting for 450 guys every year. I know you've, all the guys that can play in the Super Bowl and everyone, but like you get to know

all these guys and you want what's best for them at the day. next level. When are you prepared to take that job and actually contribute to an organization? And so we'll see what that decision is. So that'll be fascinating to watch. I know anytime it's an Alabama player, especially in Alabama quarterback, being in Mobile, Alabama, it's like a different level of, I don't want to say pressure on you guys, but like certainly there's an emphasis, right? Jalen Milrow, where are you on Jalen, what you've seen this year? I mean, we've seen this, probably the same things. But where are you on Jalen? What can you tell us? Yeah. So yeah, you're right. I mean, if there's a good Crimson Tide player in the game, that's big for us down here,

right? This is a huge Alabama market. So, you know, when I interviewed for the job, I told him, like, we got to get away from kind of the charity invites to the Auburn and Alabama guys. If we want Nasi Harris to come to the Senior Bowl, we got to invite the other really good players. We can't take like the backup tight end because he was from Mobile. We got to. can't do that. So with Milrow, I'll say this, we all saw him progress over the course of last year. I was at the Texas game last year where he had some rough patches, gets benched, and we all know he, you know, he came out of that South Florida game and became the starter again and kind of wrote it off to a really good year. I saw him throw at the Manning camp this summer. It wasn't

great. It wasn't his best day. It was only a one day exposure. So I have learned over the last seven years not to put too much stock into what I see down in Tibado, Louisiana every time. To me, it's more about connecting with the players, connecting with those QBs and getting to know them a little bit and talking about senior bowl a little bit. But I think with Mill Road early, what I liked was some of the more design run. And really, Jalen, having more of an aggressive mindset and being decisive with the run, I think there's, I think when you watch him, there's a difference when he takes off and he's decisive with it. I mean, holy cow he's different he's got rare speed you know Todd I was on the on the field a couple

years ago before A&M and like you do I mean you just you talk to a lot of scouts and uh in a bunch of guys were in the building the day before and this was the year Jemir Gibbs was coming out and I was asking guys he can roll he's the second fastest guy in the program and that beg the question the follow up like well who's the fast man yeah um who's faster than him back up quarterback deal and Milro um So in Gibbs ran what? Wow. And Gibbs was hit like, I remember talking, he was hitting like 22, almost 23 on the, on the miles per hour.

Yeah. So I mean, that's, I mean, the words rare and freaky. I mean, get thrown around way too much. But that is, that's freaky speed for a quarterback. We're talking Michael Vic speed. If he goes decisively. There's sometimes where he doesn't look as sure and he's kind of tentative. And it doesn't look as fast.

But I thought he was running. more decisively early and more importantly, I felt like the anticipation was better, especially like the Wisconsin game stands out. There were some throws in that game that I didn't see him making the year before. I thought as a first year starter, and this is no knock on jail, and this is a lot of first year starters, I thought he was like a clear picture guy. He really need to see, he really needed to see receivers break open, you know, before he ripped the football. I thought this year, I mean, he was throwing guys out of breaks. I mean, I posted one on Twitter. after that Wisconsin game, he was our senior bowl player of the week.

And man, the guy was running a corner route, you know, kind of a deep flag route. And he wasn't even out of his break yet in Millrow launched that ball. So he was making progress. And now I think we all, you know, look at the, the Vandy game and the Georgia game. I mean, there's been some good and there's been some, you know, head scratch and stuff. So I still think with the tools, you know, he's probably a lot. He's probably ahead of where Jalen Hertz was coming out. because I think if we bring Jalen Milro to the senior bowl,

I'm not going to get asked by the media if we're going to play him at running back during the week, which is what some media people ask me at the press conference when Jalen Hertz played. I mean, I think he's beyond that. And I think obviously Jalen has played beyond where we thought Jalen was going to play. I don't know if anyone saw a Super Bowl quarterback or an MVP conversation quarterback when he was down here in Mobile.

I think the Eagles really, I mean, credit Howie Roseman. And I heard through the process, like, that was how he's guy, like how he loved Jalen Hertz and credit him for really going up in the second round and taking him. If he doesn't take him there, Jalen Hertz might have been a fourth or fifth round draft pick. So I'm getting long-winning on you, man. But there's just a lot. You know, it's not a clean, it's not going to be a clean e-val. At least to this point, it hasn't been. Yeah, can you talk to us a little bit about the offensive tackle group?

I know the two guys from LSU I really like. I think they're talented. I don't think they've played quite as well as I had hope coming into the season. I think the same thing is true from Banks at Texas. Is there maybe a couple tackles that you see maybe emerging that could move up in the group? And what do you feel about the top of the class right now? Yeah, it's a thinner group. You know, we're coming off a really strong year a year ago.

Right. I don't know if anyone in this top group this year would have been in that upper echelon last year. Yeah, there's no Joe Alt, right? No, I think we, I think we had five first-round offensive linemen in the senior bowl last year. I don't know if any of these guys stack up to that group of players. I mean, to me, Tyler Guyton was more athletic than anyone in this class, and he went in the 20s to Dallas. Yeah. You know, and he's starting as a left tackle. I thought Tyler was a better athlete than any of the guys in this class. So, but there's some good ones. I mean, you mentioned Will Campbell and Emery Jones. I mean, those guys are, they're very different

players. You know, I think that some teams see Emery Jones more of a guard. So if we get him here in Mobile, I think teams are going to want to see that. I think everyone sees Will Campbell as a left tackle. Trying to think of guys that have emerged. I mean, the one guy I really like, I'm going to butcher his name. I'll just call him Big Jonah down there at Arizona. Yeah. He's a big, bouncy, you know, thick, bouncy man. And again, his ultimate home might be a guard as well. You know, that's kind of where I see him. But he's a, he's a super talented. guy. And in terms of like guys emerging, you know, I would say there's a couple, there's a couple small school guys. Let's address the small school guys. Like that's always been a huge, like really

cool part of the senior bowl. And quite frankly, we're losing that a little bit with the transfer portal. And I hate it. I would say it was about three years ago. You looked out at the, at the offensive line group on, really on both teams. And it was Fordham and it was Southern. It was North Dakota State. It was Tennessee Chattanooga. I mean, we, we almost had more sub-fBS. And guys that are playing now. Yeah. Yeah, all these guys, all those guys are playing, good players.

So it kind of stinks that we're losing that, but I'll bring up a couple guys. I think a riser right now, a guy that probably started the season in the fourth, fifth round range for most people is Gray's Abel at North Dakota State. There's been a lineage, right? We had Dylan Radins a few years ago as the second round pick to the Tennessee Titans. And then we had Cody Malk two years ago, who was. was a top 50 pick to the Tampa Bay Bucks. Gray's the next guy in line.

And there's a lot of day two, Buzz, already. I thought it might take a good senior bowl week to get him up there. And I don't know if that's because it's the class itself, the O-line class is starting to settle. And teams are like, man, if we need one, we better, we better go. We're starting to push guys up a little bit. Right. But he's a good player. You know, and then there's a tackle at William and Mary, who's a good player.

Yeah, Grant. Yeah, who's a really, who's a good player. player as well. He's made a nice jump. I saw him at Duke Man o'anweather's camp this summer. And he's a really good athlete. I mean, a seven level athlete on an NFL scale. He's fun to watch. But I told him point blank, I'm like, man, you have to be more physically dominant at that level. Like, teams are going to want to see you be more of an ass kicker. And to put on the tape this year, it was cool. And it was, I'm sure it wasn't just coming from me. I'm sure he heard that from a lot of people. But sometimes you talk to players about stuff like that and you get to their senior year and it just,

It kind of looks the same. I'll give him a lot of credit. He's kicking ass this year. You're not going to get any. Go ahead. Really quickly of, you know, the guys that there's always someone that comes out of the senior bull who stock sky rockets. Do you go in, do you and your staff go in the week and say, this might be the guy this

year? Do you have a feeling when the guys show up that this might be, this might be the guy that really jumps up on boards this year? Or is it always a surprise, sometimes a surprise? You know, that's a great question, Steve. I think the cool part of it, so like right now we're in the middle of our NFL call process. We had our scouting meetings last week. Our guys have all said their piece.

We got the board set the way we saw the board. And now, like I just said, we got off with Pittsburgh. We did one with the Bengals yesterday. We've got one with the Jets when we get off this. And then we've got like 10 more set up through the weekend until Monday. We got the Texans on Monday morning. But we just compare notes. So, you know, when people ask me, did this guy help himself in the process or not?

Like, I'm not just throwing darts or making stuff up. Like, we know where teams have these players. So like a year ago at this time, Braden Fisk, the defensive tackle from Florida State, nobody had him on day two. I mean, it was mostly fives, some fours. You know, he was super disruptive guy. He kind of created havoc for other people, but like the numbers on paper weren't there, you know, in terms of like TFLs and sacks.

He just kind of, you just kind of blew. stuff up for everybody else, right? And then he comes down here and has the week he has. I mean, he almost unblockable. He goes to the combine. He looks like a damn Mike linebacker going through the D-Lines bills. And he goes up to, I mean, the Rams traded up to 39th pick in the draft. So for a, for a power four player to jump two or three rounds in the process is a massive jump. Like, like Terry McLauran did it a few years ago. He came down here. Everybody had Terry in the fifth or sixth round. We really brought him here. I loved his, I loved his punt tape when he was a gunner on punt team. I saw the speed. He was the number two receiver at Ohio State behind Paris Campbell,

liked him as a receiver, but didn't realize how good he was until he got here, and then nobody could cover him. He was the fastest stuff on all our GPS stuff. He goes to the combine. And he ran out of four three. I love this. Four three one or five. Four three. And so for him to go from the fifth or six to the third, that was a massive jump. I mean, no, in hindsight, shoot Terry should have been probably a mid-one. Yeah, right. Yeah. The guy's a monster. So, so, yeah, I think, I think if guys have a good process, they can jump around. And depending on where that is in the draft, regardless of where that is in the draft, that's a lot of money. But when you start jumping two and three rounds, I mean, holy cow. But yes, to answer your question,

yeah, there's guys that we come down here and I know where the league's kind of out with. I'm like, I think he's a little better than that. So hopefully we, hopefully these guys show out. So yeah, there's, there's a handful of guys every year. That's my internet. My internet glitch for a minute, right? And leave it up to Mench to fucking hijack this thing and take it to offensive tackles. Right?

Like, we're in the middle of a quarterback conversation. And now I'm talking about NDSU and William and Mary offensive tackles. No, real quickly, let's circle back on the quarterbacks real quick. Yeah. I don't know. you know, I'm not asking you to divulge anything here, but we talked about Milro, we talked about Nussmeyer, who are some of the other guys when we make the trip down to Mobile that we might wind up seeing that you guys have your eyes on to quarterback? Yeah, I don't think there's any surprises

in this year in this draft, Todd. I think, I think that, I mean, just based up the two calls we've had already, like everyone sees the same grouping. It's just the order of that grouping. And for us, I mean, selfishly, again, I think of everything through the senior bowl chair. It's a good thing. You know, there's not, I think a year ago at this time, everyone knew Caleb Williams was going to be the top pick. I think this was about the time of year where Jaden Daniels went to Tuscaloosa and went off. And then two weeks later has the historic game against Florida, you know, goes on to win the Hizman. And we kind of lost him at that point.

But none of those guys have done that yet. Nobody's really separated themselves. Everyone's had their kind of, we talked about Milro having some rough patches. I mean, certainly Carson Beck had a rough patch in the first half against Alabama. You know, Quinn Ewers had a rough patch against Georgia. So that's going to be back. It's going to be yours. It's going to be Shadur Sanders.

Really, the biggest riser of the group is Cam Ward at Miami. I see a lot of stuff online right now about Cam being a slam dunk first-round pick. I would just warn, be careful. Because, again, we didn't invite Cam Ward to the Senior Bowl last year. And a lot of that had to do with the feedback from teams was fifth and sixth round. So again, I think Cam's had a great year. It's been awesome seeing him in more of a pro-style offense. My biggest thing with Cam Ward in the past was you saw, I've always called it like the Houdini thing.

And maybe I'm really dating myself with a hairy Houdini reference. I don't know if like young people even know who the hell that is anymore. But he could run around and make magic happen. And what he did, you know, most of what he did was off script. And that was really cool stuff. And it was fun to watch. And you saw the armed talent. but what I think NFL evaluators wanted to see is more of a pro-style system,

more play with in the scheme, play more on time, play more on schedule. And does he have the ad-lib plays this year? Certainly. But I think in Shannon Dawson's offense down there at Miami's done a really good job playing in the structure. So he has made a big jump. But again, a four or five round jump to get into the first round, that's a massive, massive jump for a player.

So again, I think we love to do this. We love to just take players and run them up the board and say they're going to be first rounders. And I'm really sensitive to that because, again, going back to when I worked for a team, like to hear the disappointment in kids' voices when like you would call them on the phone to recruit them as free agents, right? And they're getting a call from an NFL team to be an NFL player and to hear the disappointment. and just it should be a joyous time and it's not. And I'm like, well, bud, what's going on? You know, you're going to be a Seattle Seahawk.

And he was like, well, man, everyone was telling me I was going in the third round. And so my point is there's so much false information out there, man. Like, again, I'm probably overly sensitive to it. I just hate where some of the narratives on these guys go. So back to Cam War. Like, he's having a great year. I love him. Hopefully, we can, you know, we'll get him here to Mobile.

can show out. But, you know, they're just running these guys up the board. But that's, that's the group, man. You know, Dylan Gabriel's going to be there. Will Howard's going to be in that mix. Riley Leonard from Notre Dame, trying to think, you know, Curtis Rourke's name has come up. Some teams have draftable love for Curtis Rourke at Indiana. Mark, if you're throwing a small school name in there, Mark Grunowski from South Dakota State. Probably not having the year he had last year without the supporting cast, but he's kind of a smaller school name to throw in there that that a lot of teams see is draftable. But the teams aren't all over the board on this class

in terms of who they're talking about or who they're projecting high. It's just the order of where they're going to go. Interesting. It's a lot of good information there, Muncha. So a couple more things, and we'll let you roll. I know you're a busy man. I don't know what they're paying you.

I don't know what they're paying you down there to organize this thing. But like if it ain't seven, figures, they're not paying you enough. And I'll probably get you in trouble for this. But Mitch, you understand, like, the knowledge you hear, right, of all the players that he's got. Then he's helping you truly, like, legitimately coordinating with NFL teams, right?

The service that's being done for NFL teams, then the community, then the organization of it. And to see, like, we know Jim, so we're always biased. But, like, to see how scout friendly and evaluation friendly, everything is, has become. Right. And like, I don't know. It's a different level than it's ever been.

And like Phil Savage is a wonderful man and did great things too. And they've always had good people working at the senior bowl. But like it is like skyrocketing in terms of what what Jim has done for the senior bowl. I love the way you promote the game. I love watching the videos. If you go on on campus and the guy getting the box and opens it up and he's got the senior bowl hat, you know, everyone thinks that Jim's just hanging out in Mobile.

You know, never, you know, it's just watching Tate. but he's going to schools, he's seeing kids. But it's important to Jim that he can be out there. Right. Has there been, you know, has that been ever been one of those experiences that you remember more than others maybe when you've gone to campus? Does the kid know what's coming? Do you tell him, I'm going to be on campus to give you your senior bowl invite?

Or do you surprise them? How does it all work? We try to have the element of surprise. It usually works. Right. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that, man. No, this has been a really fun job.

And we've got a great staff here. staff has grown since I've been here. And again, the goal when I got here was to kind of pull back the curtain. And I've said this a lot. This isn't anything new. Like when I got here, we didn't even have tape in the office. So like, how do we, you know, I call the league office and they're like, well, Jim, we don't give tape to the All-Star Games. I'm like, well, how the hell do you expect me to do my job? Right. You know, if you're not. So, you know, it starts there. It starts there. It starts with building a real football operation. We've got 11 former NFL scouts on our staff. those guys do an awesome job. But it's been fun. You know, it's been kind of fun putting a stamp on things.

Going out to the schools is unbelievable. I mean, that's very selfish with me almost to do that because I take so much joy seeing these players, especially, I mean, most of those visits are small school players. Right. So, I mean, I really go back to the first one with Kyle Dugger, the Patriot Safety. That was my second year here.

We didn't do that the first year. I mean, he said, in Hickory, North Carolina, of this Division II school in the middle of nowhere, beautiful campus, unbelievable people. And yeah, we called ahead and we had it ready. And, you know, the coach, they went through stretch before practice. And then he called the group up and, you know, pulled out the senior bowl hat. And I'm in the background. Like I'm weighing the weeds, standing behind the bleachers.

And just to see, like, the teammates mob them and everything, it's a little bit like when the walk-on guys get to sky. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that stuff. There's a little bit of that to it. But yeah, man, it's fun. I mean, these kids, I mean, especially these small school kids, they're going, when they leave high school to go play at D2D, you know, FCS level, they're not dreaming of the NFL. I guess one other story I'll tell you kind of behind the scenes story.

I went up to North Dakota State a couple years ago for Cody Mock, right? Yeah. Cody was one of my favorite dudes. He's got the long red hair. He doesn't have his front teeth. He was kind of like unbelievable character. Dude looked like a Viking. And so we, you know, we do the on-field thing after practice.

just with coach ince and the players are all there and then you know Cody comes over we start talking and I'm like man where are you from and he was like tells me his old hometown he's like yeah I'm like where is that and he's like I got 45 minutes from here he's like you know got a farm family farm down there so in the summertime I can work on the farm and come back up here and get workouts in and everything and I was like oh wow you're from a farming family that's awesome and he goes yeah you know the dream someday is just to you know play in the league long enough to make enough money to come back here and buy a farm and I just shook my head, like knowing how talented this guy is. Yeah. He didn't know he didn't know how good he was. I'm like, Cody, you are going to play as long as you want to play in the

NFL. Like, you're going to leave on your own terms and you're going to make so much money. You're going to be able to buy half the state of North Dakota if you want to in farm on it. So those are just the cool stories. Like he had no idea how good he was. That's awesome. I think he knew when he left Mobile after he kicked him. Yeah, he did all week. But yeah. But yeah, those are those are those visits on campus are really fun. We're getting ready to do a couple here next week. Awesome. Last one. We'll get out of here with this. Medj, so we were texting and talking all year long, you know, but with ESPN when we were covering the game, we would have these calls with Nagy, and Nagy would go through the whole roster. And I would never do that to Jim and drive him.

I'm freaking crazy. But like he took the time and he went through. And the stories, like one guy after the other after the other. And that was always my biggest takeaway. Like the fact that you get to know these individuals, what their struggles have been, what they've had to fight through, how they've gotten to where they are, one of just, you know, 100 or so guys that can come down and play this senior bowl

and get the opportunity to showcase what they can do. And so I just wanted to leave and give you the floor. If there's one or two guys that, like, the rest of college football, just to kind of keep an eye on, some guys that we could root for, guys, as we get ready for that final week and come down to like the entire NFL lands in Mobile and we're getting ready for that week for

the February 1st, Recy Senior Bowl, is there one or two guys with the stories that you just are really excited to tell and for people to realize what they've done to get here? Yeah, I mean, some of the human interest stuff in Todd, that brings up a great point. Like one of the greatest things about being an NFL scout to me was showing up at the schools every day and just here in the school. stories of these players and hearing where they came from and the path they had to take to get there and how hard it is for a lot of these players. Frankly, some of these guys, just to get to college, they've overcome so much. So that's the stuff I used to love. And every day was a new day,

right? Like you're showing up at a different school every day here in different stories, connected with different people. So that's cool stuff. And we'll dig into some of the more of that stuff once we get these guys signed up. I'll give you a couple like football stories that are that people can kind of follow the rest of the year. For those that watch Big Ten football, I know, Todd, you grew up a Michigan fan. I went to school there. Kalelell Mullings, the running back. It's a cool football story.

I mean, the guy played 22 games at linebacker, right? He's in a back, he's in a crowded backfield with Blake Corum, you know, so in Donovan Edwards. Yeah. And he was the fullback last year, 235 pounds. I go in there in August. Coach Moore was good enough to have me up there in August. And he dropped weight. He got down to 2.30 to play running back.

And here he is. Like his backfield mate was on the cover of EA Sports College football, Donovan Edwards. And he's a really good player, too. And he's at some big games and big moments for Michigan. But Khalil Mullings is a guy that's worked his way up. Like, he could be sniffing the third round of the draft. Is the guy that was playing lineback?

Yeah. wild for i mean he's run his butt off all year i mean you can't to me the thing is he's 230 pounds and he cuts like a guy who's 205 pounds like you don't see big backs with his cutting ability so that's a cool one i mean just to just to keep working and grinding at it you know yeah it's it's your craft outs and then the other one's Derek harmon um a defensive tackle at oregon yeah we just talked about him earlier on him a lot yeah yeah i mean so you probably know this i mean maybe they've told the story i just know that uh you know a lot of what i do i mean i'm on the phone constantly with agents.

And there was an agent that he's, I think he's going to be working with, who was at least honest with him, like gave him good feedback. He told him, he's like, Derek, you got to clean up your body. You know, you're sloppy. You need to lose a lot of weight. He doesn't even look like the same player as he did for Michigan State. I mean, some guys get better, right? Like there's guys that make a nice jump.

Like, this guy looks like a totally different player to me. See, I haven't, I didn't see. He's been a shock to me this year. I just didn't know a whole lot about him. So to hear that transformation. Yeah, he was about 320 at Michigan State. Yeah, so we, you know, we grade glass half full in the summertime, like anticipating guys getting better.

They theoretically, they should all get better, right? They're in the weight room. They're getting coaching, all that stuff. So we kind of glass half full. We bump guys off. We call it mercy grades. Yeah, there you go. I like it.

I like that. But, you know, he was kind of a mercy seventh round grade. You know what I mean? Right, right, right. keep him on the draftable board. Guys, he's probably going to be a top 100 pick based off everyone I've talked to in the NFL. Isn't that awesome? He's in that third, fourth round range right now.

That's, again. And he busted his ass to get here. He busted his ass. And he listened. He listened to people, right? Like a lot of these kids get feedback. A lot of these players get feedback and they don't take it. They don't want to listen.

They don't look at themselves in the mirror. They don't want to be honest with themselves. So tip of the cap to, Derek Harmon for actually doing that. And that's not easy to do, especially at that age. I mean, so it's cool. That was a cool story. The ducks are rolling.

They're going in to Ann Arbor this weekend. I'm a little nervous what's going to happen in N.R. this weekend, but Derek Harmon's playing his tail off. That's awesome. And you know when the coaches get involved to hear that story and to know how coachable he is, like that's even another, you know, assist in his grade. So, yeah. Man, I love you, dude.

Love having you on the show. Can't wait to get down to Mobile. Mensch, we're going to get you down. I don't care if we got to get you on a train. We're going to get you down there. I'm joking with you. But what's our restaurant there?

We went no acre. No. No. Okay. Noble South is your spot now? Noble South is your spot now? I thought no one. I like both. Now we got to go to Noges.

We got to go to both. Wait, maybe we had to. haven't been to nojus i don't know i thought you'd been there i don't know i don't know you know things get things get fuzzy in mobile things tend to get fuzzy during senior bowl week too so they do they i tell people all the time though the food down there's great the food is fantastic there's a bunch of places the food's yeah it's one thing you can eat well in mobile alabama you can we're going to have to do a show we're going to have to do a show from that week maybe feature in like the three or four restaurants yeah to give give some love to mobile like mobile has treated us

well for the last 25 years. So we're going to have to take care of that. I appreciate your brother. We're going to bring you on as much as humanly possible over the next 177 days. I looked that up. 177 days to the draft. So we'll be talking a lot. Tell Molly to get ready.

I'll be shooting her text for my hotel problems. But no, I appreciate you and we'll talk to you soon. All right, dude. Love you too. Happy for you. See you. See it. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in D.C.

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