The McShay Show - NFL Combine Day 3 Reactions: Nick Emmanwori’s Historic Performance and Maxwell Hairston’s Big Day. Plus, An Exclusive Interview with Louisville QB Tyler Shough.

Episode Date: March 1, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! Todd and Steve open by reacting to South Carolina safety Nick Emmanwori’s all-time workout and what it could mean for his draft stock. Then, they highlight other winners from Friday’s testing, including Kentucky cornerback Maxwell Hairston and Oregon tight end Terrance Ferguson. To close, the guys sit down with Louisville quarterback Tyler Shough to discuss his college journey, the draft process, and what he learned from Justin Herbert. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:30) Day 2 Combine Reactions (3:30) Nick Emmanwori's Workout (14:30) Evaluating the DB Workouts (28:00) Breaking Down the Top CB Workouts (49:20) Evaluating the Safety Workouts (57:30) Tight End Workout Takeaways (1:20:20) Tyler Shough Convo Sign up today to receive Todd’s Mock 1.0 and premium access to every mock draft, exclusive scouting reports, inside information from league sources, and deep-dive analysis from now until the draft. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are back, Mensch. We are back. It is day two of workouts at the 2025 NFL Combine. 55 days left until the NFL draft. Mentsch, you good? I'm great, man. All right, good, because we've got to get into this thing. We got a lot going on. We move sets. Thankfully, finally, I want to give a special thank you to Nick and Jake. Our camera folks, extraordinary, who have traveled with us from California to Mobile, Alabama, back to California with all their other duties, and here now in Indianapolis, they moved us over from Radio Row.

I'm done with that. I'm done with it. Different vibes. No, we're not going to be there next year. Like, it's great, and everyone can have fun with it, but like, this is us. Right. And I also want to give a special thanks to Tucker and to Dan who helped run all of this. Our producers, extraordinaire, who have been boots on the ground making all this stuff happen.

And also a thank you to the Intercontinental Hotel. We stumbled upon this place. I know no one wants to hear this story, but you're going to have to listen for 30 seconds. We stumbled upon this place. We were supposed to go to one hotel. They have rooms for us. A team showed up from the NBA.

They decided they were going to bump us out. It was like 6 o'clock at night. So we're walking around. We got to go to the bathroom. We come into the bathroom here at this hotel, the Intercontinental. Like, hmm, this is nice. Let's see if they have rooms here. We changed over.

They opened up a week ago, folks. If you're in Indianapolis, come and check this place out. It's a wonderful spot. We've had unbelievable service and they've helped us. They've been open for one week and they've got this beautiful room for us. And now we're going to do our show here tonight live. We push it back to 8 o'clock. Too many workouts, too much going on.

We were scrambling last night. So we've made adjustments. It's a better show. It fits us better. And we just, you know, we're very thankful for everyone here, including Jadae, who served us lunch today and is a wonderful woman. And it just got me thinking it was a perfect transition to Jada. Barron had a really good day today too. So here we go. Man, did we need fireworks? Let's just call

it what it was. We're excited about it. There were some good things to talk about yesterday with the defensive line workouts, interior and the edges. And we're so excited because these classes, historically good group for interior defensive line. I mean, probably the best since 1992. Great edge talent, but a lot of the top players did not work out. And it just didn't live up to the hype. So we needed some fireworks today and oh my gosh, did we get it? Two players, to me, stole the show. First of all, Nick Eman Worry from South Carolina, your guy. And secondly, Maxwell Hirsten, the cornerback from Kentucky, we've so much to unpack. And there were a whole host of other great players that worked out. But there's a lot that, the trickle-down effect of

this at the top of the board, at both of the positions. in the first round, this is going to get interesting now. Nikki Minwari, I got a phone call from my guy Mensch in August. We're talking about, I'm talking about, I don't know where we're going to work this year. I've interviewed, you know, we've had conversation with nine different places. We've got to figure out how we're going to make it all work. And he's like, yeah, but you got to watch this safety. Nickymanwari.

And I don't even think we were pronouncing it right at that point from South Carolina. And I'm like, man, she's fine. Okay. And I popped in the tape and there's a lot to like. We saw, we can get into who he is as a player. Tell me what he did tonight that absolutely like, like Indianapolis is buzzing over what just happened. We knew it was coming.

I mean, we knew this guy was going to have a big workout. Yeah, but not like this. Yeah. So he's six foot three, 220 pounds, 32 and a quarter inch arms. Put that to a little bit of perspective. 31.5 inches is what you're looking for. So that's, that's longer, obviously, 32 and a quarter. Then he runs a 4-38 40-yard dash.

Oh! Has an 11-foot 6-inch bra jump, and then it has a 43-inch vertical. Those are outrageous numbers for any defensive back, let alone a guy that's 6-3, 220 pounds. And everyone's trying to come up with these comps. You know, who are the other safeties that he compares to? And NFL Network came up with D.K. Metcalf, the receiver of Seattle. That's how athletic this guy is. When you look at it, D.K. Metcalfe was 6-foot.

23, 228 pounds, 40 and one half inch vertical, and a 43340 yard dash. That's how athletic this kid is. And you start to look at it and comparatively, like, the RAS score, right? The RAS score, which basically takes all of your, your measurables and puts it into an athletic grade. I thought this was amazing. you go back, right? It's out of a 10.0. His RAS score was a perfect 10.0.

I think it's 10.0, right? Yes, 10.0. Perfect 10.0. I can't remember. There have been a couple guys, but there have been 1,079 strong safetys dating back to 1987, Mensch. 1987, all the way through this year, 2025, including everyone who worked out today. He has the number one RAS score. Like, think about that.

Yeah. Of all the strong safeties who have ever worked out here, okay? Did you mention the best vertical jump by anyone over 200 pounds ever? I did not put that in perspective, though. I just gave the number, yeah. The vertical jump of 43 inches is the best of any player at the combine over 200 pounds. So we've had like 197 pound guys, some receivers, some corners, sub 200. And by the way, he's 220.

Like, if you didn't watch it, when you're done with the show, in about an hour or so. And knowing me, it'll be like an hour and a half. I get it. Make all the jokes. Everyone's smirking in the background. I see you Tucker and Dan and Jake and Nick. But you got to watch what, like to watch someone with that length and that height at 220 pounds.

That's like a will linebacker. Right. To get off the ground. To get off the ground to be able to generate power from the ground up. And it's just fascinating to me. When I said to you in the beginning, we've quite literally, like, never seen what we saw today. That's what I mean. And our RAS score, that the best since, you know, going back since they started this in 1983, or 1987, it's just, it was phenomenal to watch.

I think he would have been a 10 at most positions, by the way. Not just safety. A corner, wide receiver. He would have graded, I mean, absurdly high. And no matter which which way you wanted to grade him out, regardless of the position. Okay, a couple things I want to get to here, specifically with Eamon Worry and the safety class and this draft. First of all, Malachi Starks is a damn good football player, right? The Georgia safety.

Most people mocked him as the first safety off the board, first round, didn't have the best season this past year. But if you really go back and study his tape, it was some hero ball here and there, gambled and had some ugly plays that jumped out. but he's just instinctive, well-packed. He'll fill the alley versus the run. Just like an all-around really, really good football player. I think I saw the comparison today, Jesse Bates. I'm cool with that.

Ball skills, complete player, will support the run, very good in coverage. Can play zone. I remember going back to my report. It's popping back in my head now. Not many guys move like he moves, can cover in man and can cover in zone the way he does. And like these are special guys.

Right. But you wake up this morning, right, and your Malachi Starks, and you've been considered a top 40 pick this entire process. And quite frankly, like, if you looked at like rankings and mock drafts, like kind of a top 15 guy for a long time until this season didn't go exactly as planned. But you wake up this morning, you're like, yeah, I'm 6.1. I'm 197. I'm a safety, right?

It's tough when the other guy, though, is two and a half inches taller than you, weighs 23 more pounds, has an inch longer arm length, which is very important at the defensive backspot, and jumps 10 inches higher than you, and runs a 438 to your 5-4-0. Think about that. Like, you don't draft on measurables, right? Right.

But you do draft on potential and traits, and tape combined with that. So I'm going to say this. I think you go back and look at a lot of mock drafts. I told you, I don't travel and do games. I peek around a little bit more just to kind of get a sense. I won't look at Doris Kiper, though. I won't.

You're getting a call. We still owe him a call. But look at most mock drafts, people talking about out there. You don't see, look at my mock draft. Get the newsletter, by the way. Google it, the McShay report. First mock draft just came out. We're going to put up another one shortly after the combat.

because we've got to update things because things are going to change. And one of the things that's going to change is Nick Eamon Worry, I didn't put him in the first round. I listed in the top of the thing, guys that probably should have been or very easily could have been, but were not in this first mock draft. And Eamon Worry was right at the top of that list. He's going to be in the next one. When Mach 2.0 comes out, he's going to be in the next one. I looked at, I took a peek today because I just can't help myself.

There's a range now that I think is a possibility. And I'm not saying it's definitely going to be one of these teams, but there's kind of a range of teams that I'm looking at now. 14 being maybe the highest. But we're talking, the Colts at 14 now, like, they're in play, huh? I think potentially. I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen. But, like, I think the conversation starts when you get to that middle first round range.

18 Minnesota, 24 Seattle, Buffalo 30, Eagles 32. too. He's going to be in the first route. You don't have those kind of traits combined with really good tape, not perfect tape, really good tape. And let's transition to that. And we have so much else to get to. I don't want to do a 30-minute show on Eamon Worry, but from a Tate perspective, and I told you, I think there's some miscommunication. I don't know that he's always prepared pre-snap sometimes. There was miscommunication in the bowl game about him playing in the second half of the game. I guess there's some issues that scouts have tried to like figure out what's going on with that. And he didn't do, I should mention, and it's smart. Like, agents

oftentimes don't give good advice, but I, you go out and put up these numbers and you're a straight line explosive guy and you're that tall. You're probably not going to look as good as the 5-9, 5-11 safeties when it comes to like the box drill and the change of direction stuff that they ask you in position drill. So he didn't do that here. But on tape, while he's not perfect and there are some flaws. What is it that stood out to you dating back to August that you just really thought that this guy had a chance to be a first round? So if I come into your office and you're the GM and I'm a scout and you say to me, GMs aren't interesting in hearing what a player can't do. They want to know what a player can do. And if you're the GM and you say to me, what can he do? I say everything.

He is versatile. I almost don't like the way they used him a little bit this year. They played him in the box. They've always played him in the box. Don't get me wrong. He plays in the box a lot at that size. He can get off blocks. He's tough. He's good against the run. All of those things. I like him over the slot. I like playing him high. He's a 4-3-8 guy. I know he's 6-3-2-20. And it was even, it was wild to me that there was some talk about maybe about him maybe moving to linebacker. That makes zero sense to me. This guy is a safety all day, every day. He can play over the slot. He can play high. He can play in the box. He can match up with tight ends. He can play zone. I think he's got outrageous ball skills.

Is there some concerns on tape? Sure, I'll give you that. I thought he missed some tackles this year that I was a little bit surprised by. There are some issues on tape. No one is completely clean. But if you're asking me, what are his abilities and what can he do? The answer is everything. Yeah.

I just love the versatility. I love, he's not Kyle Hamilton. Kyle Hamilton's tape was brilliant, but Kyle Hamilton didn't run that well. No. Cam Chancellor, I actually think he's a better athlete because people wanted, I saw that comp today coming up on NFL network.

And I get it, like the height, weight, speed, length, all that stuff. But with Cam Chancellor, I truly, Cam Chancellor was going to knock your, you know what off. And he, like, he was great coming downhill and all those things. And he was a ball hawk.

He made some big plays. But I think with this guy, you get a more fluid athlete. I think you get some more, some more cover flexibility. Right. Right? I really do.

And yeah, I agree with you. Like, so when you walk into the GM's office, it's like, how is he going to succeed, right? Right. And I've always talked about this because I talk to a lot of GMs. The next thing they want to know is how's it, how's it not going to work? How's it going to fail? Okay. And I think, I think putting, like, you know, play on words, but like putting him in a box where you just make him one thing.

and part of that being like too much in the box in terms of like up close to the line of scrimmage might be the way if we don't play him properly and utilize him properly and maybe develop him and allow him to start doing these things but then expand his role like Kyle Hamilton's role has changed over time right so it's going to be fascinating to see where he goes by the way he will turn the ball over and then he is a threat when he gets the ball on his hands he had two big sixes this year he is a danger to go the other way every single time he gets his hands on the ball I want to thank everyone, by the way, I didn't thank everyone off the top. If you're joining us live right now is the Combine Workouts, we've got it on the background here. This is like the best studio we've ever had. Yeah. They're going to have to peel my ass out of this place. All right.

I'm telling you, on Sunday morning, Sunday morning, like, I don't want to go. I think I found a second home in Indy. But I want to thank everyone because I'm just looking down. We've got the live check going on. We got how we are, Bears, and Thomas H. Joe Terzio. Thank you for everyone. And we'll get to some of these questions today.

I don't feel like it's been a minute since we did the live shows. We did one yesterday. We were scrambling too many numbers. But we'll get to some questions and some comments as the show goes on. So stick with us. We appreciate you being here. All right. I mentioned, even Worry.

Yep. Absolutely stole the show. But at the cornerback position, there was a guy that we knew was going to work out well, but I didn't think, I don't think that. I quite knew the level that we were going to see from our boy, Hairsten, right? Maxwell Hairsten from Kentucky. And I should mention this.

Some of the top corners did not work out, okay? And Travis Hunter, like, I'm not going to bang a drum here. Travis Hunter's, Travis Hunter. He's generational talent. We've never seen anything like it. But I do find it funny that, like, we spent all this time and all this media, and it's on the media, as much as it is on, I guess the information coming out.

But it was like this big deal that Travis Hunter had decided to play cornerback and then would do some wide receiver position drills. He didn't do a damn thing. No. He didn't do a damn thing here. Which is okay, but what was the point? Yeah, what's the point, right? What's the point?

So he didn't do anything. Will Johnson, the cornerback from Michigan, did not work out. Jad A. Barron were going to get to him. He was limited in what he did, but what he did, he knocked it out. Benjamin Morrison gets a pass, obviously. He's got the hip injury coming off this season. Savone, Revell, the cornerback from East Carolina, who I'm in love with. I think he would have lit it up if he could be going on.

And I'm going to get to him in a little bit as well, but did not participate because it's coming off the ACL. So a lot of guys didn't work today, but it still was an awesome showing. It was a great day. It was a great day. Maxwell Hirston. He's a zone cover corner for Kentucky. Great when the ball's in the air. Confidence that he exudes.

He just, like some guys are magnets to the football. He's one of them. Listen to this. 5-11 and a quarter. 183 pounds. So you're like, yeah, so what, McShay? You know? Yes, he's kind of be slightly undersized or I would say average.

That's about average, right? He's a little small. A little bit small, a little bit lean, right? We ran a 4-28, folks. This guy came out and ran a 4-28 official time in the 40-yard dash. He hit 24.25 miles per hour. That's the fifth fastest of any player at any position in the combine in the last three years, okay? He also, as a little guy, 39-5-inch vertical and 10-9 broad.

Both were second-best in the entire cornerback. class. So you talk about coming out and just sending a message. All right. All right, Travis. All right, Will. All right, Benjamin. All right. It's just a phone. You guys aren't working out for various reasons. And I'm not catching you, but I'm going to let every other team in the NFL know that I'm the other guy. Right. You know, because there's a competition here, truly. And I've talked about this before. This cornerback class, you can kind of like break into two groups. One being like the press man guys, the guys who hold up well in press man-to-man coverage, or any kind of man-to-man coverage, primarily over their career, and that's how they project. And then there's another group of guys

that are the zone cover guys. And in that group, Jadae Barron, who can play, who can do a little both. Yeah. But has played primarily zone and excels in that because of his instincts. Behind him, I've got Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame, who's six foot. He checked in at just over six foot, 193 pounds, shorter arms, no red flags, but obviously didn't. work out because of the hip. And then it's it's Harrison. So so now I'm looking at Harrison. I'm like, well, he's not that much shorter than Morrison. He's 10 pounds lighter, but he'd probably play close to 190. And he just ran a 4-2-8 and he just jumped almost 40 inches. You just give him seven pounds? You think he's going to play a 190? I think he could yeah.

I mean, did you did you, well, you actually did lose weight later, but you're an offensive lineman. But I don't know many, I don't know many athletes to get into the NFL and don't put on way. Truly. Okay. Truly. Okay. Okay. Fine. 180. What is? No, no. If you believe that, believe that. I think he'll get to close to 190. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll wind up playing at about 190. That's good. Yeah. Okay. Um, I don't know. What did you see from Harrison? It matches up what I saw on tape, which is the great part about it, right? We've watched tape on him together, I believe, and he is. Oh, no, we text each other after, we watched him around the same time. Lightning Quick on tape, man. I know he's his own guy. I think he's got some man traits.

he is he's just so he's so fast so quick gets in and out of breaks he doesn't have big hands you know he has smaller hands but for a guy with smaller hands he plays the ball well you see him on tape he one of the ways that he uses that speed is to break on passes in front of him jump routes and like we were talking about even worry take it the other way he is a he's a another guy who's a playmaker when the ball's in the air yeah i just i just finished up his evaluation. And I want to get to a couple things on it. I know this is great television, but I don't care.

Hirsten. You look at, yeah, he's six interceptions, 10 past breakups, right? And force three fumbles. He had tied a school record, too, for the most pick sixes with three. Excels in zone coverage, nearly 400 snaps last year in cover three or cover four, ability to play outside and in this slot. He's been highly effective in the slot, but he can play both sides.

The thing, the ball production was awesome. Fast eyes, smaller hands, as you said. Not a good tackler. That's going to be the big thing that shows up and it's going to be frustrating. I gave him a four in our rating scale. One is outstanding. Two is above average. Good.

Three is average. Four is below average. And it's concern. Can I get into that just really quickly? Yeah, please. He had a shoulder injury this year and he had 55 solo tackles the year before. And so when I saw that, I thought to myself, well, maybe I need to dig a little bit deeper. Maybe I need to go back to the 2023 tape.

And I did. And what I saw a lot of was him running guys out of bounds. And you get a tackle there. And it's, to me, I still, I know that number is a good. I mean, 55 solo tackles is a good number for a corner. I saw that number. I went back. I still have concerns about him as a run defender.

Yeah. I kind of saw some Casey Hayward, remember back in the day? Or like Jason Verrett, like slot corners. ball hawks just find a way to the ball magnets. Yeah, ball magnets. Somehow the ball finds them. But now that I know he has these traits that, like, that adds to it. There's a zone cover quarter.

There's more you can do and develop. So I don't know. I thought here, so I just think he's going to be a number three starting corner as a rookie. He's just, he's too instinctive. He's too fast. He's got too good of ball skills not to be a consistent player on the field. And I think he can develop into a number two role. Top 50 guy probably.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this cornerback, like Travis Hunter is going to be one of the top three picks. Right. Somewhere, somewhere high. Jad A. Barron to me is one of the top 10 players in this entire place. We're going to get one about 20 seconds. Will Johnson, I told you, the tape was frustrating because there were a lot of great plays and there were a lot of like really bad plays for a guy who's going to be a top 15, top 20 pick. But then, as I said, there's a competition that is going to, that is kind of taking place. between now and through the pro days and leading up to the draft. And it will have something to do with medical behind the scenes.

What's the information on the hip for Benjamin Morrison? What's the information on the ACL for Savon Rebel from East Carolina? A. Z. Thomas, cornerback from Florida State, had a good day, looked good in position drills. He looks really good in the field. Didn't run a 40. Had a 10-2 broad jump. It was kind of a weird day. You did the field stuff, did a broad jump, didn't do a vertical, didn't do the

runs didn't do the 40 but he they're kind of in a company I think I think AZ Thomas it's six one and a half one ninety seven 32 and three eights inches arms if he if he winds up running he's not going to run a four to eight right you know God only gives us so many but if he runs in like low four fours then I think the tape you look at it like this guy's an outside press man corner right versus Harrison who's a slot Zone guy who can do some matchup one-on-one stuff. He's going to get me the ball more probably, but not a ton more, whereas Thomas can provide something different

in terms of the outside press man that he does. So that competition just got a little bit more interesting, even though they're all different cats, right? Right. Zone, man, all that. But I think when you start to look at that, I don't know, picks 28 to 40, 45, I think all those names are going to come off the board.

And Hirston, to me, just kind of stamped it, right? Other corners that stood out. We'll go through the corners here, and then we'll get to some of the other safeties that stood out, right? You've got to talk about your guy. Let me also mention this, before anyone goes anywhere, okay? And I see you, I love the fact. We just got this chat rolling, and everyone's getting involved in the live chat.

We got 376 messages. We just kick things off. Shopkey's telling me the Dary importer is him, and he ran a 4-3-0. We're going to get to him, shop. Trust me. We're going to get to them. I can't wait to talk about it. You're feeling it.

But I want to tell everyone this. This is important. Tyler Shuck, the surprise of our entire show. The McShay show began on October 22nd, okay? Yeah. 2024. The most positive surprise that we've had to date. And we've interviewed three general managers.

We've been to the Senior Bowl. We've been here. We've done live shows. We've had Herb Street on. We've had Joel Clat, Pollock, the whole gang, right? The most pleasant and wonderful surprise of this show so far, at least for me. I think you were underselling it.

It was better than pleasant, and it was just an unreal conversation. It was enlightening. It was enlightening. And honest to God, after talking to him for about 45 minutes today, and I'm not one of those guys. I've interviewed plenty of people, and like it's been really nice and friendly. And when I'm done, I'm like, yeah, I'm worried about. that guy or I'm not sure or I'm not I don't know either way Tyler Shuck was awesome because he showed

wisdom and he's been through it man three injuries at Louisville he has been through the wars he thought his career was over like twice right he was carted off the field he told us today and I'm not going to give any more about this interview carded off the field and thought his leg was detached from like he didn't know if he was ever going to play football again so he's like yeah man I'm here. I'm throwing. I'm throwing. Like, I'm, whatever you guys want. Like, I'm just blessed to be, but it was more than that. Like, the, the amount of, like, depth and the interesting answers. It was, I said it when we got in the car driving back. It was the most interesting interview that I've ever been a part of. And I've talked to Hall of Famers. I've done all of it. Like, I've been

very fortunate to do all of it because there was insight in this young man that I hadn't seen before. Talking to all these quarterbacks coming out. Like, true. Like, it was awesome. So if you're watching now on YouTube. When the show's over, right when the show is over, we're going to throw it up on the YouTube homepage, right? McShea Show homepage where you can watch it at around 9 p.m. It's going to be there. And then if you're watching or listening on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, just stay here, okay? Just stay here at the end of the show. It'll, we'll run the Tyler Shuck interview, the Louisville quarterback, who by the way, with Cam Ward not throwing, Shador Sanders not throwing, right? And in a class where there's, those are the two at the top, everyone says. But I told you,

his tape this year is every bit as good as those other guys. I promise you. It's one year, it's three injuries, but it's, but it's his first full year as a starter, healthy. And so if that's what's to come in the future, he could be the absolute surprise of this year's draft. And you maybe get him in the second round. So that's coming up at the end of the show. other cornerbacks. Don't even wait. You're in a porter. Or did you talk about Jaday yet?

Porter. You want to go to Porter? Fine. I'll give you Jadae. Yeah. Jada ran a 4-39. I said I don't see the speed, like the elite speed.

I thought he was going to be around a 4-5. I was worried. I've said all along, Brian Branch, right? Not identical, but like similar type situation. What is he? Is he a nickel?

Is he a safety? Is he a corner? the measurables aren't great. Jaday shows up here in Indy. It's 5.5.106, 510 and 3 quarters inches. Like, here we go again. 194. Okay, but like 20, oh, 29 and 5 eighths inch arms.

I was wondering if you're going to bring it up. Yeah, you texted me. I had to run out and grab something. That was disappointing. And I said to myself, that was this morning. That was this morning, because the measurables came in. We got the, we actually, I forwarded you the list from an NFL team of all the measurables from the corner.

So we got it by position. And then you read through it as I was out running errands. And, and, um, and you've said 29, five, eight inches. And I was like, here we go. I just, I literally just planted the flag on the first day here at the combine on Jaday Barron. And now it's like, yeah, he's 5.10 and a half and 29, five, eighth inch arms, which is, is concerning. It's a red flag for defensive backs.

And I'm like, yeah, now he's. probably going to run a four, five, two or something, and we're going to have to try to explain a way, because you can't draft a guy with short arms and no speed, right? Right. In the, where I'm talking about drafting him in the top 15 of this class. But then he runs a 4-3-9, and it's like, it doesn't make up for all the sins. Like, those are still red flags. But can I say something about that? Yes. We kind of hated about it with Will Johnson. We talked about this, I think last night where you had some concerns about Will Johnson and not making play at the end. And I said to you, whenever you say that to me or

whenever I see it, I immediately jump to length. And Will Johnson had shorter than average arms today, which makes sense when you're talking about guys who can't make plays at the point. I don't see it with Barron. So yeah, he has shorter arms, but what makes me feel better about it is when I throw on the tape, I don't see a guy that looks like he has short arms. I don't either.

You know what he means? So it only matters to me if it's an issue on tape too. So we talk about this with offensive tackles, right? you yesterday, I think he has longer arms based off of the tape I studied. Right. So we talk about the offensive tackles. Oh, he's got sub-34-inch arms. Okay, that's a concern.

Now, throw on the tape. There's a Y-9's coming off the edge. It's a great speed rusher. How does he handle it? Is he okay? Okay, then let's put it to bed. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have 34-inch arms. It's a little bit of a concern.

You wish that he did. It's not as big of a deal as it might be for another player. And that's kind of how I felt about Barron. Yeah, I don't like the sub-30-inch arms. That's alarming to me. But throw on the tape. And he makes plays on the ball. Yeah.

And I don't have to go through it again. I gave the entire scouting report just a couple days ago if you want to go back and listen to it all. It's on the first day of the Combine coverage. It was two nights ago. I love them. I love the football player. I love the instincts. There's a handful of guys every year.

I don't even have to ask scouts or general managers. What's the character? I don't have to call college coaches. Like 95% of the class, like you have to. You do a quick Google search, make sure there's no arrests or suspensions or anything like that. I know Jad A. Barron's has phenomenal, phenomenal football character. He had one of the best quotes of the podium this week talking about not getting caught up in the results and staying focused on the process, not worrying about getting beat, just consistently focusing on what he can do better as a coroner.

And I was like, man, if that is your mindset every single snap, you're going to be all right, man. Yeah. And you can just tell by his attention to detail and all the little things he does and the technique work that you don't wake up with the technique work and with the instincts. Like you, that is drilled into you by hard work and by an absorbing coach. He tackles. He does all of it. So like, yeah, I'm worried about it if he's not breaking up passes at the last second. I said that quite like quite frankly, like I don't know that I've seen many guys that do a better job on the ball of detaching the wide receiver from the full.

football the way he does it the very last second. So like cross that at a concern off. And he's, he's a really good tackler for his size. Like he really, really sounds reliable tackler. So putting up some of these numbers helps. Running a 439 helps. And quite honestly, it comes down to, yeah, I don't see on tape a guy who has elite top end speed. And yeah, he was a 440 and the official came out was 439. It probably sounds a little. better than it is, but the end of the day, it's good speed. And so, like, that concern isn't, like, completely crossed off, but you, you go into a general manager, you sit in these meetings, and someone doesn't like him in that group, and somebody doesn't like him. I mean, we're picking

at 13. I can't draft a cornerback who runs a 452 with 29-inch arms, and I just can't stomach it. But now he runs a 4-3-9 and I've got a counter if I'm the guy banging on the table for him. And a lot of times it's what it comes down to. So also part of his workout was a 35-inch vertical jump, which is good. And the broad jump was 10-6, which was fifth best amongst all the cornerbacks. So not like an overly eventful day for Barron. And he didn't wind up doing the workouts, which I would surprise the position workouts, because I thought he would thrive in that role.

very clearly was working on getting that number. Right. And when he got that number, he actually fell to his knees, set a prayer, got up and hugged a... Stacey Dale. Stacey Dale,

the reporter, and gave her a bear hug. That's how important it was for him because he knows the only thing that's working against him are the measurables and to be able to put a three

behind that four point. It was important. It's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. All right. All right, Munch. Let's get to it. Dary and Porter.

You can't wait. Dary and Porter. Some guys, it doesn't happen overnight for some guys. Some guys, like, you are playing a position and it's not working. You've got to make a transition. Whether it's in the program, whether it's, you know, you're struggling at that spot. Not often, but a handful of guys every year, I feel like we see this. It's like late in their career.

They found their home. their scheme. Tyler Shuck, we talked about, found his school, found his health, whatever it is. I love when guys go through the struggle and have to grind it out and nobody knows their name. Nobody knows about them. They're not contributing a ton even though they're working their ass off to try to contribute. And then all of a sudden it clicks. And for Porter, it clicked over the last couple of years. And then this year he had a breakout year. If you don't know Darian Porter, he's a tall, long cornerback who spent a lot of time early in his career first couple years wide receiver transitioned over to corner had some struggles had some ups and downs but finally broke into

the starting role full time and had an awesome breakout season this past year Iowa state guys these Iowa state guys are fast and can ball like perimeter guys something's going on at aims I love it so Darien Porter let's throw this graphic up tuck okay Rick Wollen, remember him? He was a fifth round pick of the Seahawks. It was a travesty that he fell to the fifth round, but his tape was horrible. His tape at a small school level was just not good. So I get why he fell. I thought he would be closer to third round than fifth. That was shocking to me. He still was on the board 10 picks in to when the Seahawks took him in that fifth round, okay? And I'm not saying this is an identical matchup, but my point is this. And I don't think Savon Reville is that far off of this situation, even though the measurables aren't as close as they are with Porter.

Both of these guys, in Revell and Porter, had an emergence late in their career, but are still kind of raw, still need work. And with Wollin, it was, he played corner, but he just hadn't gotten the technique work. He was long and lean. You were worried, can he make that transition from a small school to the NFL? Well, with Porter, it's similar. It's not the small school issue. He just hasn't played a ton of ball there, and it's just one year.

But look at these numbers, right? Rick Wollin, 6-4, Porter 6-3. Wollen, 205, Porter's 199. I'm admitting it's not a perfect comp, but you see the tall, well-built corners. 33 and 3-8s versus 33 and an 8th for the arm length, which is massive. I've always told you. told you. No combination of measurables are more important at any position than arm length and 40-yard dash at cornerback. And those arm lengths, 33-plus-inch arms, are phenomenal. It's like,

God bless you with something. So go be a corner. That's what you should do. If your arms are longer than 33 inches and you're not a big guy like mensch, go be a corner. And then, Let's look at the 40-yard dashes. I mean, it was ridiculous what Wallen ran. Can you believe he fell to the fifth? No. I had to look it back up today. We ran a 4-2-6 and had a 42-inch vertical.

I think we had a second-round grade on him or a third-round grade. Yeah, second. We had a second, thought he could fall to the third. 4-26 and 42-inch vertical. Well, Porter, just like not far off. Right. 4-30 and had a 3-0, what was his 36-and-a-half-inch vertical? Am I reading that right?

No, high. No, he had a 40, right? 39-9. And a half. Thank you, Tucker. Speak up, Tucker. We want you on the show. So, yeah, 39.

I wrote that 39 and a half, okay? So like those measurable, from the arm length to the speed to the vertical jump are somewhat similar. And the fact that they're both raw coming out, I think Porter's got so much to work with. And a former wide receiver with ball skills. Yeah, and you were intrigued by the tape, right? You already came into it thinking, you saw, again, how does it translate to the tape? And you threw on the tape and you said, this kid, man, there's fly. He's got some upside.

The other thing I really like about him is he's going to be an outstanding special teams player right out the game. Yes. He's going to start making plays on special teams right away. So this cornerback class gets more interesting. Can I talk about another roadrunner, like Tariq Wollin? Yeah, you can in one second, but let me just put a bow on it real quick. I want to get to my roadrunners, UTSA. All right, go ahead.

All right. Zaw Frazier. Yep. And I want you to remember what you just said. What's the most important things about corner? corner? Length and 40 time. Zoffraiser, 32 and 7 eighth inch arms.

Okay. 436. 40. Yes. So that's what we're talking about, right? He's 6027. He's 186 pounds. This is a good looking kid, right?

He's got smaller hands. You saw it a little bit today on the on-field workout. There was a couple times where he mishandled the ball. But he broke the UTSA single season record for interceptions last year with six. And when he watched the way he plays the ball and tape, the thing I love about him is he's always hunting. He's tracking the quarterback. He will come off his receiver to go and make a play on the football. He's a guy. I'm intrigued by the tape. There's some things he's got to clean up. Panics a

little bit late, gets a little bit grabby. But when you're talking about a guy with tools, he's a guy to determine. He's someone who could be a mid-round pick that you hit a lottery ticket on. Yeah, it's interesting because we know that Hunter's coming off the board early. We know that Jadae's coming off the board shortly after that. We know that Will Johnson's going to be right there in that mix. All should be off the board in the top 15 or so. So picks, right? Then we got that second group. We talked about Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame, AZ Thomas from Florida State, who was limited today but looked really good in his drills. We got a Revel from East Carolina, Simone, who didn't work out because of the ACL.

So those are kind of your top six. And now Maxwell Hirsten kind of, right there, challenges, starts to challenge. So now we get seven corners we feel good about. Porter for a lot of people wasn't in the mix, but I've got them written down right here, number eight for me. Those numbers. That's going to assess. So now this cornerback class, because of a couple of these workouts, gets really interesting. And is Porter, Porter's a day two guy. I'm not ready to say he's a round two guy, but he's a day two guy that's interesting.

Quincy Riley ran a 4-48, right? Great ball skills, confidence when the ball's in the air. He's a really good player out of Louisville. He's in that mix as well. I think those are kind of the nine guys, right? Yeah. And Hirsten and Porter elevated themselves within that nine. Okay?

Then after that, we got a whole slew of players who are going to be either late, day two, early day three. And Zah Frazier is one of those guys that I keep hearing from Scouts. Like, watch, he could be, he could come on Friday night, meaning the second day of the draft, meaning somewhere late third round. But maybe it's early fourth. But the bottom line is we've got some more intriguing guys. Let me give you a few more names that had really good days, okay? We got Robert Longer Beam.

Rutgers. Rutgers. 511, 175 pounds. So average height, but lean. Average arms, 31.5. But he ran a 4-3-9 today. Guys, you're flying. And he had an 11-2 broad jump, the best in the entire class.

Okay. And a 36-and-a-half-inch vertical, which I think was tied for like fifth or six or whatever. What's a broad jump tell you? Get into that a little bit, maybe. The ability, honestly, lower. body strength and explosion. And it's only important because you know that this guy, A, it can help for an undersized guy with his tackling, ability to default, B, going up contested catches as a lean slender guy. Can he explode up through those sorts of things? Right. And typically it leads to good

speed, quite honestly. Right. I mean, that's the indicator is if you've got a good vertical and or broad jump, you know there's there's explosion and power in the lower body. Yeah, I think it's just good keep in mind, these tests are for specific reasons. They are things that translate to the field. So I thought Longer Beam had a really good day as a day three prospect. Caleb Ransaw. Big day, Tulane, yeah. Yeah.

Really big day. The guy didn't put up big numbers. He didn't have a, like, the statistical production wasn't great at Tulane. Yeah. But wow, he showed out today. But they're numbers that make you want to go back and be like, all right, I got to brush up. I got to figure out where, like, where this guy belongs. and at a position that is dictated in a lot of circumstances of like,

there are cans and can-nots. There are guys that can and cannot. And the easiest way to get the exclusion list is to have really bad numbers. Right. You know? Don't be a cannot. And you can get excluded quickly. And then there are ways to catch eyes and be like, now, because remember, now the NFL coaches, the DB coaches, the coordinators are getting involved.

And they're like, well, we can work with him. If you've got one thing that we really like, we can work with him. So what Caleb Ransaw comes out, not the greatest tape in the world, late round prospect we're talking about, right? Well, now he's like, now there's an argument, okay, hey, tell my scout to go back and watch. Let's do a cross check. Let's see. Now with this in mind, from a different lens, let's see.

He runs a 433. He has a 40-inch vertical jump. I think it was tops for the corners. Yeah, I think it might have been. Yeah. I don't know. Do we have the vertical jumps for the for the cornerbacks? I'm not going to go. Actually, I've got it here. But but my point being that the Ransaw was up there. When you patch together a vertical jump of 40 and a 433, that like 511, about 511 and a 1197 pounds.

So like he's tightly packed, well put together and slightly below average to average height for the cornerback position. So there's stuff to work with theirs. Right. Shorter arms, though. Last guy, there's no way I was going to get through this cornerback podcast without going. Mentioning my boy from Western Kentucky. Upton Stout. Upton Stout, appropriately named.

Not really stout, but like shorter frame. I'm just polling for this guy. I think he's one of the best pure cover guys in terms of glue. Like hip pocket guy. Yeah. He's got nothing else to us. offer measurable was. 30 inch arms, miserable,

pissed about it. Five, eight and a half, miserable, pissed about it. The reaction to the room. 181, not happy. But then he comes out and, like, what I see on tape, these athletic traits, the ability to change direction, the speed to keep up,

runs a 4-4, 37-and-a-half-inch vertical, second best among all the cornerbacks. A 10-8 broad jump, fourth best among all the cornerbacks. So, yeah, I might be small. What about it? Like, I can run with just about anyone.

I've got explosion in my lower body. I can turn it. Like, I just, I think Upton Stout is going to be a steel. He's going to watch. You watch that size. He's going to be available in that fourth, fifth round range. And everyone's like, yeah, he's going to be like a number five corner and maybe he'll play your special team.

He's going to wind up being a number three starter in the NFL. You hate seeing that arm length and you hate some of those numbers, but there are some smart GMs out there right now who are, psyched because they're saying to themselves, good, man. I knew that he wasn't going to have great numbers. I didn't even want him to, I just, I want him to fall to us. I know how good he is on tape. And if I can get him in the fourth or fifth round, we have an absolute home run. There are guys that are probably pretty happy that he didn't have a, like, a monster workout. Always trade back is falling along in the chat. He had a good line. I was going to ask you guys yesterday,

if the turf was slower this year, today gave me the answer. Yeah. The turf was in slower, it's just a lot of the top guys aren't working out. And it's a problem. And it's, it's frustrating. We're walking this line of not wanting to whine about it, but it's tough. Yeah. I mean, because every single position, every single position. We talked about all the guys last night, Travis Hunter doesn't work out. Will Johnson doesn't work out. Benjamin Morrison has an injury, so he gets a pass. Savon Reveld gets a pass. At the safety position, the top two guys did work out. Yeah, they did work out. Xavier Watts did not. The Notre Notre Dame safety.

You also, here's the other part. There's a hell of a lot of Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State. Texas. Texas dudes, right? Mm-hmm. Who had to play 15, 16 games this year, and their season didn't end, like almost a month later, you know, several weeks later than what we're used to seeing. Yeah, guys have been dropping 14, 15 pounds training to run their fast as 40s.

So guys who are rewarded for winning are, put in this bind of like, well, I didn't have a month. I didn't have two months to go. Right. Because a lot of these guys, if you're just going to a bowl game and you're preparing for the NFL draft, you're like, thank you very much. I'm out, write a letter sitting on social media. And I'm going to Florida, California, Arizona to train. With world class trainers, world class so now I've got December, January, right? And February, three months. Yeah. Now these other guys, they won a national championship, they're in the championship game, they're looking at, like, by the time that the dust settles, it's February 1. And here we are on, you know, say March 1st or

yesterday, I don't know, who cares? Tomorrow's March 1st. I mean, I don't know what day it is. I know it's day two of workouts at the Combine, and I know we're in an awesome hotel, and I'm pumped about it, and I love our new set. But yeah, I just, I understand why those guys don't wind up working out. But yeah, every single position. But what's happened is it's created this opportunity. And so now you have the NFL network, you got the ESPN sets, you got

our show, you got a bunch of other shows, you got all the reporters, you got reporters fighting in Starbucks. You got an average height of five foot, eight and a half than like 170 pounds having a shouting match in Starbucks and calling NFL security.

You got all these people here giving focus on this event. like yeah. Yeah. Do you think if Will Johnson and Travis Hunter worked out? Do you think if those two guys worked out that we would be focusing this much on Maxwell Harrison? He would, you know what I mean?

Right. So it's a great opportunity. So I love that for these guys. It's good. Safety position. Again, there were some guys. Xavier Watts, Notre Dame didn't work out. Kevin Winston Jr., the partially torn ACL from Penn State, did not participate.

He missed the majority of the season. last year. I like this tape last year. Excuse me. A couple other guys, though, took advantage. Really took advantage. I was, just like I'm pulling for Upton Stout and some of the, Darien Porter for different reasons, I'm pulling for Billy Bowman.

I was hoping you were to go with him first. I absolutely love Billy Bowman's team. It's kind of the same thing with, is Jadae Barron not quite to that level is what it is. It's a guy who doesn't have the ideal measurables way worse, not way worse, worse than Jaday Barron's. Okay? But his tape, you can see it, talking to people inside that Oklahoma program about how he has a color-coded notepad that he walks around with.

That he's like he's obsessive with preparation, the detail, attention to detail. These are things that translate and we see it all the time. That's why you've got to get to know the person and what drives them. And it's what, like talking to so many different coaches. I think it was Jason Garrett had the great line. And the hardest part is trying to find players who need and love football, but also are coachable. Right. Like, absolutely need it and love it.

But when you need it and love it, unfortunately, sometimes it's because of circumstances. Because life was hard. And so there's just like delicate balance. This dude just needs and loves football for his own personal reasons. You see it on the tape. And so when he comes out at five, nine and seven eighths inches, just on. or 510, which is not a good height and 192 pounds. He's well packed, but it's just not the frame you're looking for in your NFL safety these days.

You want Nick Eamon Worry, or worst case, I'll take Malachi Starks, you know, 6-1197 pounds. And he's, the arm length, man, it's killing me. Yeah. Two of my favorite players in this draft have sub-29-inch arm length. Yeah. With Jade Barron. It's Jade 20. Not sub-29.

Sorry, sub 30. Yes. Jaday Barron was 29 and change. Bowman was 28 and half. But then he works out, and he has a really good day. Yeah. I thought his on-field workouts were awesome. He was great with the ball skills, going through the gauntlet I saw,

great quickness, catching the ball. And for him, I was worried he was also going to match the shorter arms and the lack of height with speed that was just pedestrian. He ran a 4-4-2-40. I thought that was awesome. Since the season has. ended, if you were to talk about the names you've heard the most, I think it's Bowman, you know, in a runaway. If you were in Mobile, Alabama, and you're just walking around,

you're hearing people whispering about Bowman. I don't think people, like, he's not going to test well. I don't think people realize how good this player is. When you go and watch them on tape, this guy's a dog, he is such a good football player. It's over and over and over again in conversations. I hear that kid's name come up. Who else stood up for you, the safeties? Jonas Sanker from Virginia. I mean, he's all AC. the last two years. He has over 200 tackles the last two years. Six foot three, 206, 32 and a quarter inch arms, big frame. This guy, he wants to come up and hit you in the mouth. He is a physical run defender. The concern I had was how well can he hold him in coverage? Well, he ran a 448 today.

That makes me feel a lot better about that situation. He had a 36 and a half inch vertical, a 10-foot-8 broad. He had an outstanding day in terms of the testing. I thought it was a little inconsistent on the on the field, but not bad overall. I thought it was good. You're looking at a mid-round safety there that I think can come in and be a number three guy for you and maybe develop into a starter. Yeah, I thought there were a handful of guys that really had good days. Yeah. And they're all probably, I don't know, mid-round. Let's call them mid-round. Right. It could be third, late third. It could be fourth. It could be fifth, six. But like, Marquis Siegel from Kansas State, 5-11, almost a half, almost two.

200 pounds, a little shorter arms, 30 and 3 quarters. But he ran the fastest 40 of any cornerback, sorry, any safety here. 437 had the fourth best vertical jump. 48. Look good in his movement skills. I don't know. North Dakota State transfer, so you know he's tough. Yeah, there you go.

And Kansas State, he's probably tough too. You know what I mean? Those are good programs, man. So some of these guys, we know exactly who they are and we want to measure. that are going to match up like I've got to go back and watch a lot more like I I breathe like we call it we call it newsreel I'm like newsreel and a lot of these got like a hundred of these guys compared to the first 150 200 guys that I know Siegel I've got to go do more tape on I'm excited now to see because there's like now there's some something behind it R.J. Mickens meckons Clemson really good day six foot 199 pounds 32 and a half inch arms he had the second best vertical jump 41 and a half inch vertical that's a Okay. He ran a 4-49. I thought he was really good in the gauntlet drill, catching the ball.

So he's another player from Clemson that helped himself. Andrew McCuba. He's old running me. Drew McCu-yes. Yeah. From Clemson, great call. Drew McCuba had a good day. I just like him.

He plays his ass off. He's instinctive. He's physical. He ran a 4-4-5. Didn't do anything else, but to run a 4-4-5, that's a good number. Especially because he's a little undersized. But, again, a player when you watch him on tape, he's tough. He will come up and hit you.

Yeah. Smart plays the ball well. He had a, I forget four or five interceptions this year. Trying to get my face ID. I got to figure out these. Go ahead, have fun with that. I'm looking now to you. I see you.

Last night, he was making fun of me because I didn't know how to get into my cell phone and I had my alarm go off. Tonight it's face ID. But I'm trying to get these updated tight end workouts because they were still working out when we came on. Right. But I do want to mention one last safety.

Okay. Katan Crawford. Five, ten and a half. 202 pounds right and and you look at him let me just pull yeah the Nevada safety yeah 31 inch arms I wanted to double check 31 shit one inch arms so right around average okay so size like a little shorter than ideal but tightly packed okay arms listen to these numbers across the board sawed off explosive traits liked how he moved in his in his in his workout in his workouts I did go back and look at my notes not a great

tackler, but really good in coverage, really good in the slot in coverage. Broke out this past year. You told me, I didn't even, I had just on the tape, I hadn't done the background. You can get to his background in a second. But listen to these numbers for Crawford. Third fastest 40-yard dash among all the safeties, 4-4-1. Second best vertical jump, 41 and a half. And then a third best broad jump, 10-8.

It's pretty good, man. That makes that, that's like, again, GM's like, hey, let's go back. Let's do more work on this guy. What do we have? Yeah. So he's a Texas transfer. He was there for four years. Special teams standout.

It's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon right now. I mean, you got guys going from, you got McCuba going from Clemson to Texas. So all of a sudden you got Crawford going from Texas to Nevada. But he gets on the field and he makes the most of it. He has a breakout year. And what I like about him, again, this stuff, when you're getting into these guys who are these middle round guys who are talking about third to fifth, Crawford was a special team standout of Texas.

You know you're getting a special teams player. We're looking at a player now. man, this guy's got some tools. And if we give him a little time, he's going to develop. And not only we can afford to give him some time, because I know he's going to go out and he's going to run down field and make plays on special teams. Yeah, I just thought it was a fun group overall.

I think the safety's better than expected. I think the cornerbacks that did work out had great nights. And I think anytime you have Hirston and Iman Wara put on the shows that they put on, and that Eamonwara workout was legendary. Absolutely legendary. But now for the stinks and it sucks and it stinks and it sucks portion of the show. The tight ends, man. Like, I get it.

Colston Love one, you get a pass shoulder surgery in January. Like, of course. Elijah Arroyo competed, the Miami tight end. Competed in the senior bowl, got a little nicked, nothing major, playing it safe. Pass. March 24th, we'll see you in Miami. I think we should talk to Spotify and the ringer, man. I'm kind of feeling like a camera.

I'm getting a little, I used to do like five, six pro days a year, and I would always love like, oh, we get a USC quarterback. That's too bad. I'll be out there five days. You know, we got to, but I don't, I can't remember a Miami quarterback. I don't think we've had a Miami quarterback in my pro day circuit. No. I mean, South Beach wouldn't be bad for a couple days.

March 20, my birthday's a 22nd. Yeah. My birthday is the 22nd. Yeah. My birthday is a 22nd. Yeah. All right. Anyway, Tyler Warren doesn't work out. Own choice. Again, late in the season, got it, and doesn't need to. I got that too. But you get excited about this group because we're talking about Warren and Loveland being the highest two drafted tight ends dating back to like the 80s. Run. Right? We're talking about Mason Taylor, who was expected to work out. I'm shocked by this. Because what did I say about Mason Taylor? You know exactly what you're getting. Tonight we did not know what we were getting. He's supposed to run low. He was supposed to run well.

Yeah. He showed, I should mention, though, like there's some really encouraging measurable. Like he was over 6 foot 5, 251 pounds. Colston Loveland, talk about his size. Is it kind of an angular guy, like literally? 605.6, I knew he was tall. I didn't quite know he was that tall. He's almost 6.6.

248 pounds. Good number for him. Good number for him. Tyler Warren, as expected, 6.5 and a half. But I didn't think Loveland was taller than Warren. Yeah. Or whatever it matters, but 256. So, like, there's excitement building, and these guys are working out before any of the other offensive positions.

Like, all right, we get the tight ends on Friday night. Let's go. I booked a room down here for it. Sit and watch. We've got a fireplace in the back. We've got all our best friends. Let's watch the tight ends workout. Nope. So no workout from Warren, no workout from Love. I'm going to be two top 15 picks. Could be top 10 picks. I'm not joking. No workout from Mason Taylor. No workout from Elijah Arroyo. And then I come back in the room. mentioned the first run that I see is a 40-yard dash for Gunner Helman. I love you, Gunner. I absolutely love you as a player. I feel like I was the first guy on him. I started sending out text like in September. I was like, this guy can play. I don't care what he runs. I don't care what his measurables are. But then we saw him, I mean, we're going for the laugh here.

This is not an indictment on Gunner Helm. He's a great football player. Much better second rep than the first one. Well, the first rep, he jumped out of the gate and they whist, and they, and they whistled him. Who's our guy, the starter from Pittsburgh? Mark Gorsack. Mark Gorsack. Legend. One of my favorites in the world. Like, he literally has got me through some dark Indianapolis days, just his communication, how, like, the passion that he has for what he's doing and trying to help out all the young men is they try to get the best number they can on the 40. But he, but Mark blows the whistle, you know, brings him back. He got two steps out and that third step. I literally thought we saw.

like an ACO or some kind of tear. You said it looked like... I said it looked like a horse broke its leg. Like we were going to take him out and shoot him. Like, there was this one way. If you go back and watch it, there's one movement. I did not think this was for public consumption. If you say it to me, you know it is.

But let's pull up the... I love Gunner Helm, by the way. I love his tape. I swear to you, I love Gunner Helm, and I think he's going to still wind up being a third round pick and are going to wind up being a steal. A Texas player who, one of those guys who had a condition. that schedule too, worth, worth mentioning.

No question. Helms our guy. It's just tonight we got, it's like any of your good friends, you get to needle him a little bit. Well, we're not good friends with him. We're going to needle him anyway, but we do like him as a prospect. He wound up with a 484, which wasn't horrible compared to some of these other tight ends, but it's not good. The first rep was 4-9-3 or something like that.

It was a 493 was his first rep, exactly. Doesn't reflect what you see on tape. And he almost broke his hoof. But it's not a good work out, man. So what my point is, we're not, like these, I'm listing off my top tight ends. Warren, not working out Loveland, not working out, Taylor, not working out O'Royle, not working out Gunnar Helm. Let's see what he's got. Oh, runs a 484 was his best.

And he had a 30 inch vertical. I think it was the, yeah, that was the worst of all the tight ends. So like, that's concerning. Right behind him, you've got Harold Fanon Jr. So now that's opened up the. A little disappointing there. Not great, but it wasn't like, listen, bud, these times aren't that great. and I'm not going to bore everyone, but I'm seeing a lot of four sevens and four eights.

There's only one four six, four, there's a four six three and a four six five. You're not going to be necessarily blown away by the, by who the four six three was, but I'll give you the four six five in a minute. And it was very surprising to me. I didn't know we, we had this kind of ability. Terrence Ferguson. So Harold Fanon and Ferguson and Helm are all kind of in a cluster. We talk about like these buckets, clusters, uh, tiers. whatever you want to say. They're in that day two somewhere between pick 60 and 100. Okay. And

Helmherd is cause. Let's just call it what it is. When you're 6'5 and you're 241 pounds, you can't run a 484 and have a 30 inch vertical and it not affect what it is. We didn't think you was going to run great. We didn't think he was going to jump great. But that's a little bit concerning when you talk about traits. Opens the door for Fannin, opens the door for Ferguson. Fanon runs a 472, I believe was the, yeah, no, 471 was the official, had a 34 inch vertical, which is pretty good compared to this group, but not like earth shattering and 10, 10 broad. I really like his tape, but I actually got done watching Warren, Loveland, Taylor, and Arroyo, and I popped in his tape next, and there's just a clear difference. Yeah, but I really like his tape. He's going to be a really

good pass catching tight end, and he blocks okay. But the player who helped himself the most at tight end and we'll get out of here. And before we get you to the Tyler Shunk. I might have another guy, but go ahead. The player who helped himself the most, and then there's, there is a, there is a sleeper here. Terrence Ferguson, who we said at the senior ball, like, just love this guy. Don't know how well he's going to run, but he just, he does the simple things. He makes them look easy. He makes the easy things look easy. He makes the, like the somewhat complicated things look pretty easy to. Finding soft spots in zone, getting open, just finding windows for his quarterback, catches everything.

He ran a 4-6-3 today. Fastest of all the tight ends, man. He had a 39-inch vertical. So now you're stacking traits, similar body types. They're basically identical. One-6-5-and-helm, the other is 653, Ferguson, a little taller. Ferguson's six pounds heavier. Ferguson's slightly longer arms.

But he puts out a 463 and a 39-inch vertical compared to helm with the 484 and the 30-inch vertical. 39 versus third we're talking almost 10 inches yeah there's a difference in physical traits there Ferguson coming up the board yeah truly and and also a 102 broad which is third best so his in those three results he was in the top three and he was third and broad broad job and best in the vertical and the 40 who else are you on my guy uh jalen conyers from texas tech okay 260 pounds 260 pounds and he ran a 474 with a 35 and a half inch vertical and a 10 one broad. He's a guy, the flashes on tape, his ability to peruse after the catch. I'm telling you, he's a guy that's one of those guys that's going to be another mid-round player

is one of my favorite sleepers in this draft. It's March 1st tomorrow. I was just informed by Tucker, our wonderful producer. and I'm perfectly fine with admitting I have not watched Joshua Simon's tape yet in South Carolina. Okay? I have not. But I'm going to go back and watch it. I'm not racing back to watch it like I'm, like I told you, some of the guys in the interior

defensive line and the edges yesterday. But I'm going to get back and I'm going to watch Simon in the next week. Because the South Carolina tight end that I just didn't know a ton about and was probably one of the final 15, 20, 30. players of the 33, I think, Combine invites. Let's say he was one of the 50 that I didn't know if he was going to be here or expect to be here. He checked in at 604.1. He's only 239 pounds.

So he's undersized. But he's got long arms, almost 34 inches. Big hands, over 10-inch hands. He had the second fastest 40-yard dash among all the tight ends at 4-65. Second best broad jump, second-best vertical jump. Yeah. He flashes on tape. He shows up on tape, too.

Tell me about him. He means it just, he's a, listen, he's 239 pounds. He's a better receiver. Yeah. But he's a guy who's on tape has the speed to make plays down the seam, find the pockets and cover two looks. He's, he's a good player, man. Wasn't McCuba a coroner, Frank, Frank Tursick was asking?

Ed Clemson. No, he was a safety. Yep. Shopkey said he didn't call security. I'm not sure what that means. And then he's talking about a brae- I think he's standing up for his boy, Rappaport that he didn't call security.

Oh, oh, that's right. Erroneous. Erroneous. Shopkey, you're all over it tonight. I like you, man. Stand-up for his guy. Yes. Yes.

And then he wrote the barista did. Okay. Shopkey, breaking news here. Do we have to issue an official retraction or how's that work? Yeah, I mean, we're talking about ludicrous stuff here. Absolutely ludicrous. We appreciate. We had almost 500 messages.

These are the top messages, so I don't even know how that works. Terry McGovern doesn't like Gunner Helms tape. Helm getting outrun by Jordan Davis is rough. Always trade back. All right. We appreciate you being here, man. We really do. I love our listeners.

Ladies and gentlemen who have joined our chat and have watched this on YouTube, please hit the subscribe button if you're watching. We appreciate it. We're trying to build this thing up. is a big week for us. Please like, tell friends, pass the word on. Anything you can do to help, we appreciate it. I don't want to oversell it and disappoint people.

I'm just telling you, if you like football, honest to God, if you just are interested in, like, interesting people and you want to hear about a great story and someone who's trying to, like, prove to the world that he belongs here, please check out this interview. Okay, if you're watching on YouTube right now, Just go to the homepage. When this show is over, it's going to be over for you.

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Just the second we say goodbye, this live show will turn into our interview from earlier today. It's not like a week ago. This was this morning. Tyler Shuck took time out of his schedule and came over and wanted to talk to us. And we can't tell them how much we appreciate it because it was fascinating. And I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. But again, thank you all for being here. Today was day two of the workouts.

Tomorrow, I mean, massive. Is it a big day? Massive. Quarterbacks. Wide receivers. Right? Yeah. Running backs.

And it's the first time in a long time that the running back class is going to outshine these quarterbacks. But I can't wait to watch Tyler Shuck throw. I can't wait to watch Jackson Darts throw. I can't wait to see some of these. wide receivers that wind up actually working out. We're going to see some big numbers I'm hearing. Jalen Noel. I like my small guys this year, man.

I'm just pulling for the underdog. There's a lot of really interesting players. We're going to be back here tomorrow night. Is it 8 o'clock, folks? Are we doing 8?m. Eastern. 8 p.m. Eastern right back in the studio, which is in the hotel, which means we can go out and get something to eat because I'm hungry. Yeah.

But here we go. Tyler Shuck interview is coming up right now. We appreciate it. We'll see you tomorrow 8 p.m. on Saturday, after the biggest day of workouts here in the 2025 NFL compound. We're joined by Louisville quarterback Tyler Shuck. And Tyler, I was just telling you, we don't do player interviews typically. You're literally the first player that we've had on and wanted to talk to.

And I wanted to talk to you specifically because I just appreciate your story and what you've been through to get here. Like for those who aren't familiar, this guy started at Oregon. My favorite nugget in the entire draft, he's a backup quarter. back to Justin Herbert. Right? And we think about Herbert and where he is, and I'm sure you're so sick and tired of hearing this conversation, but like what he's been through is a pro already,

and now you're getting your opportunity, your moments here. You had three years at Oregon, three years of Texas Tech. You finally have a healthy, it all clicks. Like you finally have that full season you were looking for at Louisville. And I'm just curious if you can kind of take a minute and think back, Like everything you've been through, not to start on a negative note, but what was the lowest point that you dealt with in all day? Man, I think you go to Texas Tech and, you know, you're getting carted off the field

thinking, one, am I ever going to play again or, and two am I ever going to walk again? Because I'm like, I can't even, my legs hanging on by a thread right now. Yeah. And, you know, I broke my fibula, but, you know, obviously it was fine. It was just a broken bone. But I'm like, man, this sucks after, you know, obviously having. of broken bone before that. But I think for me, it's kind of gave me this perspective. And like you said, at Louisville, it's allowed me to play free. You know, I've been a part of five different

offensive coordinators. I've backed up Justin Herbert. I played, I started COVID year. You know, I didn't get injured then, but it was COVID. So it was only six, seven games. Kind of going through there, being a young, immature kid at 21, 22 years old. And like, a lot of guys are coming into this process. Like, man, I'm, you know, I'm the best player. I'm ready to go out here. And it's like, dude what I thought I knew then was like it's crazy and I'm 25 and I still don't know crap it's like right I still got a lot to learn but I know for sure that I wouldn't be who I am without going through those experiences you know getting injured and just explaining to these teams so it's man I had a broken collarbone and a broken fibula like I didn't have any knee issues or shoulder or back or

you know it's like I put a plate on it and I'm good you know I was running quarterback counter in power you know the week six weeks after I broke my collarbone and it's like you know I think once teams understand that and they kind of see, you know, just what I've been through, it's like, okay, that makes sense. And now let's watch the tape. And, you know, hopefully they're liking what they see. And I'm excited to kind of show what I can do here. So you go through the three injuries, right?

And then you finally get your year. Was there a moment this past season when you're like, like, thank you, Lord. Yeah. You know, it's all clicking. Was there, can you think of one moment? Like, all right, it's happening now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I mean, for me, I only really think of it as, too,

it's just the timeline sucks because I broke my collarbone in 21, but I didn't get surgery on it. And the first time I get hit again, really, because we don't practice. A quarterback should not get hit because I didn't get plated. I broke it again, two-do jumped on my back and broke it. And once I got it plated, it was fine. So I tell them that, they're like, oh, shit, and it's like, that makes sense. And then the feeling about, like, to what you said, I think where it kind of hit me is running out of the tunnel at Louisville. like I said, where I'm like, I don't know.

Like obviously, I have the passion. I got an itch. You know, I had a chip on my shoulder to go out there and prove what I can do. And as a young player, it's easy to compare yourself to others, guys in my class, like Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields and Brock Purdy and even guys after that. They were in your high school. Yeah. Like, I don't think people realize, like Trevor Lawrence has been, he's like a, it feels like a 10-year NFL veteran.

He was in your high school recruiting class, right? Yeah, I knew him well throughout the Elite 11 probably. process and it was just like, man, you know, I'm better than these guys. Now, why can't I have that opportunity? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you got to go through this process and you see, you know, everybody goes through their own circumstance. Brock Purdy had to go through his own thing to get to where he's at. Even Trevor Lawrence, he's, he had an illustrious college career and he's facing a diversity in the NFL. And I feel more than anything really mentally equipped and physically prepared to go into the NFL at this point, like I said,

where I wouldn't have been earlier on in my career, where you think you're entitled to something, think you're ready. You know, I had to play in that pro-style system where there's a lot of my play, you know, controlling the run game, getting, you know, having four or five different plays at the line scrimmage, getting into different passes, controlling the protections. And it's like, you're dropping back, taking a three-step drop and, you know, reading the deep choice route, hoping he gets open. It's like, oh, he's got a crazy arm. It's like, you're playing robotish, you know, in previous offences. And it's like, that's not football, you know, and that's not playing quarterback to me. And I still have to get better at all that. So I think more than the,

anything. Like I said, I had to cultivate that grit and just I wanted an opportunity and, you know, luckily I was able to get it. Jeff and Brian Brom are obviously highly respected for their ability to develop quarterbacks. Can you talk about the impact they've had on you? I mean, in really pivotal honestly, I mean, they both played the position, you know, so they've been behind the face mask and understanding, you know, they coached me from the perspective of like, I would have done this or I would have made this throw or I don't think you could have made that. You're good. So it's like, it's different in the past where it's like, you know, I don't that didn't you pull the trigger here?

What are you doing? And it's like, you know, they, you know, Coach Brom is, or Jeff Brom is obviously very passionate and fiery. And then Brian's kind of the counter to that is he's very, you know, analytical. He explains well, but I think you need both. Right. So it was great for me kind of having that balance of him in the earpiece and going

through those plays and then, but just understanding and it gave me the confidence to go out there and they let me play for E&B who I am. That's great. Do you, do you talk to, Justin Herbert at all still? Not recently. We've obviously been pretty busy with our own journeys, but I didn't, whenever he was when he first got to the league,

whenever I was first transferring, we talked about, you know, even recently, kind of senior-able stuff, but I asked him, you know, even when he came into the league, because we played in the same offense for two years, obviously. I remember one thing that stuck out, he was like, man, the NFL is like,

people make it more than it seems. It's like you, you obviously, they're obviously better players, but what you see in college and, you know, the coaching level, like everything's going to marry up for you and you can go do your job and you have the talent, then it'll click for you. Don't make it more than what it is, you know. Everybody's good.

You know, obviously, I think he said the biggest difference is the pass rush, but the coverage is, you know, you're going to see it. They obviously do a good job of disguising and everything. Yep. He kind of, you know, gave some of that mental ease as far as, you know, college people are playing all different kinds of stuff. Maybe you don't have, you don't know what this guy's going to do. So I think there's a lot more, I think he was just kind of relaying the consistency.

Yeah. So that gave me a lot of confidence at least two or three years ago. But, you know, at least now you had to kind of learn those lessons yourself and continue on. The fear of the unknown, right? Yeah. Thinking it's just a different game, it's a different world. Can I do that? Until you're there, you don't fully know it, but to have someone that can give that advice is certainly helpful.

I always ask this of quarterbacks in honestly any position. I used to just ask, who do you study in the league? And the answer, obviously, be like, the top player or the top three players. What do you gain when you sit down and study certain players? Are there certain things that you look for that you can, like teaching points for you? No, I mean, that's a good question. I think, because, like you said, it's easy to be like, oh, I watch Josh Allen. And it's like, well, you can't really coach what he's hurtling or chucking to the player.

And it's like, you got to have that dot. dog in you, which I think I do, but I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to try and do that in the NFL or something. But it's, I think more than anything, you know, I watch their footwork. You know, what is their stance like in the shotgun? How do they position themselves under center to where they're not getting stepped on when the guards pulling? Now, how are they, what's the release point? You know, how are they stepping whenever this guy is coming? So more than anything, I think it's a footwork. You know, how are they calm in the pocket? You know, what, okay, maybe they had a negative play. They were rushed here. They saw this guy moving this way. And then obviously the really good plays

is the anticipation. So I think it's kind of shifted in my career as far as even watching Justin Herbert, it's like, man, I don't know if I would have made that, that dig throw. That was pretty nice. It was like, I don't know if I could do that. Or it's like, seeing, it's like, that was pretty sweet. And then kind of shifted into my man, I would have freaking ripped that. Like, I can make that throw.

I feel like I'm better than all those guys now. And it's like, put me, you know, at the time, I was like, I don't know if I'd win this competition, but I've had to compete every point in my career with new coaches. like put me against anybody. I'm going to go compete. And whether it's, you know, going to a team like the Bills or, you know, the Ravens, I'm not going to start. You know, you got Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, but I feel like I'm going to elevate the room and, you know, add value and be one of the guys and kind of commit myself to them, but still kind of push them and be ready. And if I go to a team that, you know, has a competition, you know, I'm going to go out there

and do my best to win it because I feel like I'm the most ready to play. My guess is you've, and you've kind of alluded to it, but you've kind of over your struggles and your setbacks, learn the importance of taking advantage of opportunities and appreciating everything. I think back to Justin Herbert's year, right? That year we had Joe Burrow and Tuatua and they didn't come here and they work out at the combine. They didn't throw. Not the end-all-be-all. We've had plenty of you guys who didn't throw, who've gone on to have great careers that were drafted,

really high and Burrow was a good example that year. However, I do remember what it did for Justin Herbert being on that field and everyone complaining and bitching and moaning about, oh, well, two is not throwing and Burroughs not throwing. And Herbert went out and had an unbelievable day. Yeah. Doesn't change the evaluation. Doesn't mean he's going to be drafted earlier or later, but there's something to, hey, Justin was here. He's unbelievably talented. He competed. Kind of similar to what the opportunity that you have on Saturday here, right? Yeah. Top two quarterbacks, Cam Ward Chador-Sanders, in a lot of people's minds, and certainly in

the media, okay? Not going to throw. You get an opportunity to throw. What's your mindset going into this? Man, I think you've got to go compete to compete. I think you got to play football to play football. That was my mindset. It was like, oh, are you, you might as well, you know, a lot of guys, scouts, you know,

tell me, you're not going to go to the senior ball. You're not going to get drafted. You might as well leave. It's like, screw that, man. Like, I know if I go play, I can play. And I want to go show that. And it's like, why wouldn't you're here at the NFL Combine? You know, I want to go compete.

You know, this is like a dream of everybody's here. And let's just go have fun, man. Like, obviously, it's not going to go perfect. I'm going to throw it maybe not in the right spot. I think that might be every throw. It's like, I wish I would have been more here. It's like, this is fun, man. Like, this is all a great opportunity.

And I think I want to go showcase what I can do and throw. And it's, I think for me, it's just really exciting. And to what you said, you know, obviously every situation is different. I think you see a guy like Justin and what he did. And I was talking to Chad Pennington earlier. He's been one of our legends guys. And he's helped out each position group. And he was made a comment with Herbert.

He was like, man, he kind of came out there a little bit nervous at first. And he was like, dude, he's like, don't just come out here and rip it, man. You got the best arm. And I think you saw even throughout the workout, he got continually better. And obviously, when he, when Justin plays free, you know, he can rip it. And I think the same for me. Like I had to gain that perspective of this is all a bonus, man. This was not in the cards for me.

Right. And that's been the biggest thing. I'm not entitled to anything. Nobody is here. You have to earn it. And I'm going to go earn it. And if it doesn't work out, great. Because it wasn't supposed to work out.

Yeah. If it does work out, that's awesome. Because, like, I know I can do it. But, I mean, that's been the biggest thing for me. So regardless of school or coordinator, did you have a favorite play call in college? And really quickly, when you get the offense set, was there maybe like a safety alignment or something that you saw or you're like, got them?

Yeah, this is going to be a home run. Yeah, I mean, that's funny you said that. The play was called home run. Yeah, so we got, you know, double-stir-t triple-right, five, five-33 right W home run. So we got a, you know. Can you say that again? Yeah, one more towel.

Double-stir-tri-right, 533-right W home run. So we got a, you know, a bench route by the X. You got a home run by the W or F, which is the adjuster. He's basically kind of inside stem. He's attacking the middle of post safety. He's got a homeowner post or a corner, and you've got a deep end cut on there there. So you're pulling the guard.

You're latching on by the tide end. You're trying to hold that in. You're trying to hold that in. You're getting a really big kind of Aaron Rogers pull set up, throw the deep down the field. So if you see that boundary safety kind of latching on, or at least in three week, or maybe in quarters, and he attaches that bent trout,

and you got it over the top, licking your chops, man. Yeah. Say he slushes off or the safety latches on. then you got the in cut behind it. So I mean, that was, that was, this is Coach Brom's offense here at Louisville. So I love that the fact that he wanted to be aggressive. And I think from me more than anything, I had to be more aware of my checkdown.

And I didn't think I took a lot of sacks this year. Just kind of because of the fact that, you know, obviously we didn't have a lot of quarterback runs, but I was more aware of that. And we could call more shots because we're not taking as much negative place. Just listening to you rip off that play call. It struck me. the verbiage differences were there major verbiage differences from from or i mean i know it was a leading question from what you were doing and how much does that now prepare you as you sit in

these meetings but then i felt teams and coaches and coordinators like how much do you ever think back like yeah this was like these horrible moments yeah these things that were like i can't believe that why is this happening to me yeah like maybe maybe it was all in the plan and it was because now all of a sudden you're going in and you can rip off that play call and i'm answering answered it for you, but take it wherever you want. You can rip off that play call with, like, it's, it's like ordering lunch for you, right? And, and that wouldn't have been the case. Had it had everything unperfectly. You would spend, you know, two, you backed up Justin Herbert, two great years in Oregon, now I go out early for the NFL draft. Maybe you would have come

in the league and you wouldn't have been ready like this. No, 100%. I mean, I, you're, you're exactly right. I would not have been ready. I'm 22, 21, 20 years old. No way. You know, I, I'm I'm at Oregon, you got like duo left, you know, rip, slice. Yeah. Texas Tech, Ace 95, 90 Switch, which a lot of guys know in the areas. It's like, oh, early 95 and it's like. Runners or Louisville play. Yeah, we got White Cross.

And you got reduced to weak slot left, X-mo, both in the right, X-bomb, Z over. And that was just one play, and then we could can it to a run if they got something like that. So it was, we had multiple can systems to start, and then we got into kind of an O-B-R or best run systems, where they're basically getting into the formation and they're telling me to run it, whether it's a KC or over, under front, or they're rotating the weak safety down, then I'm going to get to zone or G-Skeem or counter or power away.

I took a lot of pride and had a lot of fun with that. And I wouldn't have been able to do this. I hadn't got injured because when I got injured, I took more of the coaching side of the perspective because I had to find a way to add value to the room. I'm not playing, so I earned the right with Coach Kittley, who's been probably one of the biggest, people in my career to kind of gave me that confidence,

gave me the keys of the car. So I'm in there with Coach Kately game plan and seeing what we can do. And once I got to Louisville, you know, we had the cans, but we didn't have like a check system. And I came in just kind of doing it. And they were like, why did you do that? They're like, that was great.

I was like, because you called a bad play. I was like, it wasn't a bad play. I was like, it wasn't going to work. So let's get to a better play. And obviously I'm joking, but that's how those conversations went. and then throughout the season at Louisville, I was game planning on Monday, or now Tuesday for the NFL. So I'm in there with the coaches bringing my play ideas and listening to them talk more than anything about what we like.

So say the wide receiver coach, he's like, man, if we could check to this play when they bring 6-2 double dog, you know, we have that against Georgia Tech where we're in the high red zone. They're bringing cover zero. Hey, let's get to a check. I check it real quick without them changing it. We get a touchdown. It's like, to me, that's more fun than just taking a three-step drop. to go and everyone's like oh that's what you're supposed to do right but uh yeah sorry i was a long window no no that goes into kind of the thought process and that career but getting to that point

so i'm one of these NFL teams that's interviewing during this process and i say to you which one of your teammates should i draft which one of your teammates would you would you recommend as a player that i need to bring into my locker room who you got man that's hard um obviously the guys coming out right now. I think you could really pinpoint pinpoint any one of them. I got it comes to mind, at least on defense is Ashton Jalati. Right. On the defensive man who's been, he was a presence every single day. I think he's a really good dude. He's got a lot of juice to him. I mean, he's 21, 22. So he's

I mean at that position, I think that's good. You got to have some juice to you. I think Corey's done a really good job throughout this whole process coming in, being a transfer guy, being a leader. He's got you know, really cool skill set. And Quincy as well, he's another transfer guy. He's really smart. He's got all the tools. And, I mean, that's kind of been really to your points.

My favorite part of this whole process is the relationships I've built from Oregon to guys being in my wedding to my coaches, being invited to the wedding at tech and just everybody. Because, like, you find out who really is in your corner whenever you go through that things and those things. And I wouldn't trade for anything. So being working with guys who are 17, 18 years old from Miami, Florida at Louisville to end up playing with some guy who's four years older me from Washington, who's from Washington or Texas, and having to go drink some beers with the old line. And being cool with the receivers as well and kind of connecting with everybody. Those are the questions that come up. Your wife, is she ready for all this? I think she's probably more ready for it than I am.

Yeah. She played soccer at Oregon. She's more of an athlete than I am, honestly. She sacrificed a lot. We were planning on being done with college three years ago, and it was like, okay, we're going to move. She's going to move the tech. It will be, you know, it's going to work out.

We're going to live the dream. It's like, boom. Okay, let's set the wedding date right here. Boom. And it's like this happens. And, you know, obviously Coach Brown, they were great with us, you know, finally getting married during spring ball.

But it was like, she's been my rock throughout this whole process. and I candidly would not be here without her support just through everything and my dog as well. That's literally my life now. I don't have a gaming system. I don't have really don't do anything other than go on walks and just hang out and watch movies. It's important, man. Yeah, I mean, it gives you that perspective shift, but she's helped me learn kind of some of the West Coast system so far throughout this old process. She's been helping me out.

So hopefully we're going to try and get her deal with the playbook by the time we'll hopefully get some more. Yeah. So speaking of that, where are you planning on being for draft weekend? What's the setup? What's the mindset? Yeah, so I've been training in Dallas with my quarterback coach Landry Klan at QB Country and Exos. They do a really good job.

And then I'll be in Arizona for the draft week just to be around the family. I know my grandparents are getting older, so we wanted to for sure have them get in there. They're in their 90s, and they've been amazing as well as my parents and family and friends. So I'm excited to get back to Arizona. Arizona for a little bit, be in the sunshine, and hopefully get some good news there. Sure, everything you've been through. You're going to get a phone call. It's going to be a general manager, a head coach, or an owner, and you're going to be passed around to those people.

I mean, I know your headspace isn't there now, but what do you anticipate that will be like finally, it's just the start of the journey, it's not the end, but to know like, all right, we're here. It's time to go to work. We finally know what the future is. Yeah. You know, I mean, first of all, I mean, I'm going to feel really grateful and indebted just because I know that they believe in me and I believe in myself. And that's what I want to convey is just that, you know, I'm going to find a way to be the best, the best guy in the room every single day and try to elevate everybody else and be somebody who you want to be around and work with and have a lot of fun. And I think it's just going to be like a culmination of all those things where that's been

my whole thought process, man. is a bonus. Why are you nervous, man? This wasn't even supposed to happen. And obviously you want good nerves, but it's just like, this is, this has just been a lot of fun. People are complaining, oh, man, this shit sucks. It's like this, we got so much to do. And it's like, we got all these scans, we got all these interviews. I'm like, what else you want to be doing? Yeah. Where you got to be? Yeah, I'm like, this is awesome. You know, like, football doesn't last forever, you know, like we play golf and pickleball probably, you know, 25, 30 years from now. I don't know how a lot of time to do that. But, but, you know,

by golly I'm going to do this right now for as long as I can. So I wouldn't have been able. I wouldn't have had that mindset. I would probably two, three years ago, like somebody's God, man, I'm entitled to this, you know, I'm whatever. It's like, you're not.

Yeah. Go earn it. Yep. All right. Last thing for me. If we're going to put our chips in on you, man, can you please start protecting yourself a little bit? Yeah. You're like a lineback or something. Like, I love it.

It's, you know, I always say that's like what makes us great can also be our fatal flaw. Yeah. Have you worked on it? Like the mindset of trying to like... 100%. I mean, I think you see that at Texas Tech. You know, I think I, there was a stat I was researching just because people asked me about, you know, running.

It's like, oh, why didn't you run a lot at Louisville? I was like, well, that wasn't in the offense that we didn't do. And, you know, at Tech, it was like five games. I had over 80 rushes. And all year at Louisville, I had 42, whether that's, you know, design or just scrambles. But a lot of those were more designed at Tech. And I think I had, you know, like I said, it was more of a mentality of like, I'm, oh, like, I'm going to run. so hard so my coaches are proud of me and the city loves me and it's like what we're doing yeah like

no like if it's third or four down yeah get the first down and then let's keep the change movement let's go and if it's first second down protect your body but i was more aware of my check down like i said before i didn't think i took a lot of you know sacks to the to the point i had to be more aware of it i was more in tune to the protections because we had two 17 year old running backs um or 18 year old running backs um that just aren't familiar with protections they're obviously we're great athletes we're were great for us, but I had to be more aware of that. It was great for me like I was in the past, but every single time telling them who you got,

standing there. To your point, yeah, I'm going to be more, I'm going to be more aware of it, but I think you see on tape at Louisville a lot more self-warnings of that and trying to protect myself and keep going. It was going to be my last question, but it just dawned on me. Are you running the 40?

Yeah, yeah. Are you going to run faster than Jackson Dart? I don't know what he's going to run. What are you going to run? I mean, probably like 4-3 or something like that. So something slight. I may or may not have a bet with somebody that I know that you get it's not true.

That's not true. I'm going to run it. I don't know if, I don't know if he's running it, but I'm like, dude, might as well. Yeah. This is Combine. I love it. Even if it's not, like, I feel like I check a lot of those boxes on filming in the past, you know. Well, go win me at dinner, man.

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