The McShay Show - Risers, Fallers, and Understanding the Quarterback Landscape After the NFL Combine. Plus, Talking Life After the Super Bowl With Eagles GM Howie Roseman.

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! Todd opens by sharing some intel from the NFL combine, including what teams are saying about Shedeur Sanders, Cam Ward, and the rest of the 2025 quarterback class. Then, the guys identify which players helped and hurt their draft stocks in Indianapolis. To close, Todd and Steve sit down with Eagles executive vice president and general manager Howie Roseman to talk roster-building and Philly’s next step after winning the Super Bowl. (0:00) Welcome to the McShay Show! (4:30) Reporting on Shedeur Sanders' Interview Process (7:42) Team Officials on Shedeur's Interview: "He Didn't Take a Professional Approach." (14:38) Coach Prime's Influence on Shedeur's Draft Process (28:21) Why Is No One Talking about Cam Ward? (37:05) QB3: Tyler Shough, Jaxson Dart, or the field? (55:35) Combine Standouts: Tyler Booker, Guard Alabama (59:31) Offensive Line Combine Standouts (1:09:05) Biggest Takeaways from the Combine Workouts (1:21:24) Our Convo Howie Roseman is Next! (1:22:05) Eagles EVP & GM Howie Roseman Joins the Show (1:22:30) Howie Roseman on Winning Super Bowl LIX (1:26:20) Howie's Path Towards Becoming Eagles GM (1:31:52) Biggest Lessons Learned on Staffing and Roster Building (1:38:47) Howie's Strategy for Drafting QB's (1:41:19) Analyzing the Eagles 2024 Draft Picks (1:42:40) How the Eagles Spend Draft Capital on the Trenches (1:45:05) Is Howie a Foodie? (1:48:00) Thanks for Watching! Sign up today to receive premium access to every mock draft, exclusive scouting report, inside information from league sources, and deep-dive analysis from now until the draft. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shadour Sanders interviews left a couple teams drafting at the top, perplexed. Combine workouts are in the books. Which players benefited the most? and what are some of the results that we simply cannot unsee? Just 52 days until the NFL draft Mench. You good? I'm good, man. All right, play me that beat, please.

We got a lot to unpack, man. We really do. I told you on our last show on Saturday night that we just had a lot of conversations with different people, and we've got some intel that I'm finally able to drop. And if you are subscribed to the McShay report, you read it this morning. and if you're not, please subscribe.

Just Google the McShay report, and you'll be able to find it right there. It's $4 through the rest of this draft. Also $36 double down through this draft and all of next year, including the 2026 draft. So there's my sales pitch for the day. It's done. Thank you for being here.

We got a great show today. A lot to get into, but I want to, first of all, let everyone know we really do appreciate all the numbers at the combine, the people who have been following the show from the beginning, people who are starting to kind of get, you know, attached to it because we're leading up to the draft. We appreciate your support. Please subscribe.

I think it's like a stupid, like percentage of the number of viewers versus like the, the subscribers and people who are, you know, kind of invested in helping us out. It's like less than 10% or something. So I've been told to please just shy of beg. Make sure that you click the subscribe button. It will help us. as we try to grow this thing moving forward.

So two sales pitches in the books. Now let's get to the important stuff, right? Before I do that, we had an awesome interview with Howie Roseman, general manager of the Super Bowl winning Philadelphia Eagles at the Combine. Munch, what do you think of that interview? I couldn't believe how open he was, how frank he was, and he has an all-time line in that interview that I don't want to give away right now, but it's worth tuning in.

Yeah, right off the jump, too. Right. Yeah. So, like, he'll hook you right away. He set the tone. Like, I'm actually going to come and talk. And I'm going to be real. I'm going to be me.

I don't know if it's a Super Bowl hangover. I just, I've known Howie for a long time. And he's a fascinating guy to me, both his journey and just the way he handles business and kind of the good reputation, the false negative reputation, all those sorts of things. We got to all of it. at the end of this show, you're able to listen to that interview. We'll run it right at the end. So if you're listening on Spotify, if you're listening on wherever else, Apple,

anywhere else that you get your podcast. And also if you just want to go visit that separately at a different time, it will live forever on our YouTube page, the McShea show YouTube page. So that's where you can get all that. We also had an unbelievable interview with Tyler Shuck. And we'll get to Shuck later. but you can also find that wherever you get your your podcast that was at the end of Friday's show and you can also see that that's a separate a separate rollout on the

mcshay show page our home page on the YouTube page so all right I had to get all that stuff in getting a lot of calls today as you would imagine the McShea report came out this morning you and I had talked about one of the conversations I had had a second conversation both of these conversations with, let's just say, high-ranking personnel people in different personnel departments for different NFL teams. Both of those teams, and this is the important part, both of those teams are drafting in the top 10. Both of those teams have a need at quarterback.

When we talk about the six teams in the top 10 that need a quarterback, I spoke to individuals, high-ranking individuals who were in, they call them a, official interviews or official meetings. Inside the league, they call them officials, right? These 15-minute interviews at the combine are typically, and it's interesting, we even, we had a conversation with somebody else separately that had nothing to do with Shador Sanders, who was just saying how, how the people in that room, the number of people in that room had been significantly reduced.

You remember that conversation, right? Right. And so when I say that he's, you know, that these people were in the, in the rooms like this is not like 50 people from a given organization in the room it's it's decision makers people are part of the the true process like whether you like it or not there's a there's a small group of people that really have a say and what's going to go on and it's not always the the area scouts and it's not always some of the other people in the personnel department so it's a small group inside a room that sit down for 15 minutes and i should say too these

These interviews are essentially viewed by NFL teams as a first job interview, but it's to lay a foundation. So in these interviews, you'll start to talk to them about your offensive system. Maybe you go through a couple plays. And what's going to happen next is you've got the privates, you've got private workouts, you've got where your crew, your core group, if it's a quarterback, you're sending out your general manager, maybe in some cases your owner, but your offensive coordinator, your quarterback coach and a couple other people. And you go to where within 30 miles of where they

played in school or where they grew up to have those those those private workouts. Then there's an opportunity to bring them in for the 30s, right? People call it 30. It's not the top 30. You can choose any, it could be a seventh round undraft prospect, but you choose 30 individuals on your board that you want to bring in to your facility, spend a day with them, get to know them more. There are different opportunities throughout this process to get to know these players, okay? And this is kind of the first step and the foundation of, okay, here's the start of our relationship, let the key decision makers get to know you and be prepared because we're going to meet with you a few more times before the draft. And these are the things that we're going to start, you know, building on off of what our conversations were.

Just to set the table. Just to set the table. I'm pausing because I want to make sure I phrase this properly. The two people that I spoke to were in meetings and had these individual meetings that I just laid out to you, what they are, who's in there and why they're important. Teams in the top 10 drafting that need a quarterback. The two people that I spoke to in these positions left the meeting feeling like Shador Sanders was not overly concerned with what they thought of him.

They had a 15-minute meeting with them, and when they were done, they both said in different ways, different words, that they did not feel like Shador Sanders cared all that much about what that organization thought of him. Fascinating, right? Right. And that's not said in any kind of a positive leg correctly. It wasn't like they came in there and he knew who he was and he wasn't concerned about impressing us. it's more of a negative tone the way you're saying that right you're saying in a way that he did not come in with you know ready to impress ready to show us what kind of a young man he is what kind of a leader he can be all of the positive things that's what you're saying correct this was not i mean okay i'll i'll make a joke in a second but i i do all right let's go let's go through this in the right order a couple of the quotes that i put in there um one said that it just it wasn't a

professional approach. One person I talked to said, the best way I can describe it is it just wasn't a professional approach. Shador Sanders did not take a professional approach to this interview. The other person I talked to said he wasn't taking it seriously at all. I didn't get the sense that he was taking it seriously. So when you hear it wasn't a professional approach and you hear he wasn't taking it all that seriously, that's not the interview that you're looking, it's not the response you're looking

for from a potential suitor from somewhere you plan to go play. Now, I think it's also important because I'm sure people pull clips and have all sorts of things to say. It's very important. And hear me when I say this. There was no bad behavior. There was nothing disrespectful said or done. There was no kind of altercation. And it, it, It wasn't like Goodwill hunting when Ben Affleck went in for Matt Damon and put his feet up on the desk and yelled, retainer. Retainer. It wasn't that. So I'm not trying to like overblow this to try to get clicks and people get, you know, this is not a viral moment.

I don't care about the attention this gets. It's just our job to relay the information and the intel that we're getting from people that are important and make decisions or part of the decision process. from the teams that are looking to draft a quarterback and have a high draft pick. So there's a lot to unpack here, right? Okay. Initial thoughts? I am concerned that this is a young man who maybe doesn't understand what the market value is for him right now.

I think one of the overwhelming storylines coming out of this combine is that not only is he not all that close to Cam Ward in terms of that quarterback one race, that he's falling and that it's maybe quarterback three discussion time now. And the reason I say why he doesn't understand his market value is if you're a young man, I mean, we've heard stories of other prospects doing this, who knows they're a top five pick. And you know, you can say, no, I'm not interviewing with Denver. I'm not going there. Or I'm not interviewing with any of the teams outside of the top 10 because I know I'm not going there. And you could kind of take that approach. He's not that guy. It doesn't seem like he's that guy. Now, maybe he knows something we don't know. And maybe I'm

wrong about that. But that's, and I'm being honest when I say, like, I'm concerned about that, because why are you closing doors? I don't feel like he's a prospect in a position to close doors or burn bridges or whatever saying you want to use. I think he should be trying to make as positive an impact as he can across the board just in case whatever happened he thinks is going to happen, doesn't happen let me get to a couple things you just said right there and you nailed it because those are the thoughts running through my head too right when i'm getting this information i'm having conversations those are a couple a couple of the thoughts um that i was trying to unpack just personally as i as i was getting and this is important to note too these were casual conversations

if i talked to an individual for 30 to 50 minutes 10 15 was how's life you know how's your family. So this I did not call anybody and these were in person, but I did not call anybody and say, hey, how did your interview go? Yeah. There's no fishing here. Zero. Just talking ball, talking family, talking life, then talking ball. And I actually, and one of them was talking, was, was talking about Tyler Shuck and how good our interview was and how impressed I am with his maturity and and um and it was not promoting or pushing just kind of you know what are you what are you hearing those sorts of things and this was brought both cases brought to my attention without asking never even mentioned the name chador okay so that that's part of it um the other part that i want to

relay i promise you i can think of like a dozen off the top of my head right now where either the story came from a general manager or scout or someone who was in these interviews or a player several years later that I worked in, you know, at ESPN with where similar type stuff. Like, man, yeah, I went into that meeting and, and like they were all over me. Like I'll never forget, Team A was was yelling at me and coming at me. And I'm like, I'm not even picked by you. I'm not going to be available when you pick. And then the flip side talking to, I've talked to other, you know, personnel people who have been like, yeah, you know, so and so came in, we're picking at 10. He was nice enough to come in and have the meeting, but we know, and he knows that we ain't

drafting them. Unless we're trading up, we ain't drafting them. But circumstances change, man. Yeah, quickly. There's a couple parts to this that hit me the wrong way. A, circumstances change. I just mentioned there are six teams in the top 10 that need a quarterback. And I'm certain Shador Sanders' mission at the end of this is to be drafted as high as possible, but also, as Dion has told us, to the right organization. And let me read you this quote, right? I put this in the report. Dion Sanders, Coach Prime, has made it abundantly clear that he's going to have input on where Shador is drafted.

And he said in the Dan Patrick interview, right? This is one of many interviews that we've heard and seen. There's a lot of teams I prefer he didn't play for. Right. Right. So going into that, coming into this problem, and we've talked a lot about it. We understand. Dion's been through this.

Dion has his whole adult life has been in and around the NFL and now college coaching. And so there's very few people that I that I trust more to have a beat on what's actually going on in the league and what this draft process is like. Can I just interject really quickly, though, because we're both fathers. There's a blind spot sometimes when it's your kid, I think. And maybe I'm wrong. I hear your point. I'll let you continue.

I'll let you go on because what you're saying on paper makes a thousand percent sense. It is, you couldn't be more correct. But there is a human factor this. There is a human element. And I do get concerned that it went into your kid. You have a little bit of a blind spot. Go on. Sorry.

Point well taken. Truly. Point well taken. But he also is immensely knowledgeable and has connections like very few others. No doubt. No question. So there's this like tug right, tug left when I'm getting this information. The tug to one side.

is the Sanders camp knows something that we don't know and nobody seems to know. Right. And I also want to say this. I'm not Schefter. I'm not Ian Rappaport. I'm not, what's the other guy's name? Sorry,

the Schultz. I'm not getting in fights in Starbucks, you know, like trying to like all that. I'm not having the barista call NFL security. So people like when I think about this, I'm shocked because why do I say that? I say that because there are a lot more people that if personnel individuals, people in personnel departments, high ranking officials wanted to get this information out, had an axe to grind. That's where they go with this information.

Right. But I'm also saying it because that's not my lane. These were just conversations. but I'm also surprised that other people haven't gotten it. And if they have gotten this information, there are networks that are relying heavily, heavily on the presence of Coach Prime, Shador Sanders, and Travis Hunter at the NFL draft.

Broadcast networks relying heavily because the lead-up is going to be a lot about Shador, a lot about Travis, a lot about Coach Prime. In draft, when drafted, like the interviews are critical that they get them, the red carpet, all the things the draft has become whether we love it or not. So do you think if you thought it was uncomfortable watching Aaron Rogers fall on the draft, imagine what's going to happen if Shador falls. Well, so, so that's this tug.

So one part of me is tugging and saying, you know what, Todd? Like, this probably isn't going to matter. It's probably going to have no bearing on his draft stock that a couple teams were not impressed, felt like he doesn't care what we think about him. Because again, it's one team. We talk about this. It's just one team. Right?

It's one team. And we could talk about Tennessee has a quarterback need. Cleveland at two has a quarterback need. Giants at three have a quarterback need. Right? At six, the Raiders have a quarterback need. It's seven, the Jets have a quarterback need. Not to mention.

Nine, the Saints have a quarterback need. So really quickly, though, not to mention what happened with Pennix in Atlanta last. last year. You never know. You never know if there's a team. 100% went out and signed a veteran and then says, man, like, we love Shador so much that if he somehow gets to us, we're still going to take them because we think we can develop and looked. And again, I didn't think it was the right move, but look at what's happening in Atlanta now. You know, now they might have their guy, even though that was unthinkable at the time.

Other teams might look at that and say, this is not a need, but he's too good of a quarterback for him to let us get, for us to let him get by us. Sorry. No, don't be sorry. These are the conversations I love having because it's like, let's just talk about it and let's unpack it a little bit because there's so much here, even though it's just like a little bit of knowledge and it's just a couple interviews, but there's so many elements to this. And we said, like when we started October 22nd, one of the first things we got to in the

first few shows was this is going to be one of the most fascinating. drafts if for no other reason, but because Coach Prime is involved with one of the top two quarterbacks, who's his son and Travis as well, and there's going to be some stuff that goes on behind the scenes that is going to be different. And because when it happened with John Elway, when it happened with Eli Manning, not a lot of people knew what was going on. And to be honest, no one's reporting. The only thing I've heard about Chador is he was really helpful to Will Howard after he missed some throws. He's smiling all, you know, the whole time on the field, having a good time.

And then when he took the podium and talking about franchises and turning things around, like that's all the news. So there's no news about what's going on behind the scenes. And to my point here, I'm not the only one who's gotten this information. I can't know. Right. I'm Todd McShay. I cover the draft prospect.

Yes, I cover the draft. Yes. Like it's a way to get that information out. But that wasn't, I know these people. very well. That was not the, it was not the point of this. It was just like they're unpacking it too. Okay. But so this tug is like, well, Shadur probably knows where he's going. They've probably worked out a deal. At worst case, it's this organization or, or we've decided it's, this is going to be the home. But the other side of me is like, I've had multiple conversations too with these personnel

people and other personnel people who see the same things that we talked about on tape. Best pure passer. Unbelievable. When in rhythm, touch, timing, layering the ball, throwing receivers open. Great instincts as a passer. When on the move, rolling right, rolling left, he can do things that are magical, right? But in those conversations, it's, he's not that great an athlete. Holds onto the ball too long, bailing out a lot right and left.

leaving easy cash on the field. Seven, ten yard gains, because he's looking for more, home runs. And two different times with two different people I talked to, and we've covered this as well, it's a lot of the same stuff

that we were worried about with Caleb Williams coming out. The difference is, Chador is a fraction of the athlete that Caleb Williams is. And we saw how poorly that went this year. And so there's work to be done with this guy. Yeah.

He's not going to be able to elude and extend plays nearly, like maybe 20% the clip that he did at Colorado. So when I hear the Caleb stuff, and I want you to frame this mentally, the things that got Caleb into a lot of trouble as a rookie were some of the things we were worried about coming out, but they were accentuated in the NFL because it's faster defensive linemen and everything's happening faster. And Caleb's got great athleticism and the ability to extend. He's absolutely dynamic in that way.

Shador's not. And so the worry is, are we getting someone who's, we really have to have, like everything's got to be in place? And so then I, then I start to think about a couple other things. The next thing is, no one's talking about Cam Ward. No one. Everyone wanted to talk to me about Shador, Jackson Dart. Tyler Shuck, even Will Howard.

And we'll get to, we'll get to all those conversations in a minute here. It's like crickets with Cam Ward. And you know what that means? I get 25 years of history in this. Truly. I'm leaning on, I'm leaning on all of it. It means he's the guy we want. So I don't want to hear.

I don't care what you think about him. I don't care what. And also, I don't want his name coming out of my mouth. And we'll get to that in a second, truly, and just a minute or two here because I want to wrap this up. But this is the part I keep going back to. I talk about on one side, it's tugging like, Todd, who cares? The Sanders have, you know, Coach Prime, the Sanders family, they've got it worked out. They know where he's going.

They've identified it. They're working behind, back channels, behind the scenes. And there's a reason why Shador is so confident going into these meetings that he's not, treating it like it's life or death, like most of us would, like the vast majority of prospects at any position, especially at the quarterback position, trying to get drafted high, would treat this 15-minute process. The other tug is, why on God's green earth, when there are six teams drafting in the top 10 that need a quarterback, would you reduce the demand? Why would you shrink that?

that demand. I'm not saying neither of these two people from different teams said, well, we're not drafted him. It wasn't like that. No one said he's off the board. But there was a there, as I said off the top, there was a feeling of he doesn't really care what we think of him. No one said it like we don't. He's off our board. We don't like he's, we're going to go in a different direction. It was not that kind of conversation both times. Okay. But why would you shrink the potential supply, you know? No idea. Or the demand, I should say.

Why would you shrink the demand? Other than he clearly doesn't want to go to these teams. I mean, that would be the thing we've discussed before and what would be discussing now. But I think there's a different way of handling that other than trying to manipulate it with how poorly you interview. And yeah, again, I don't want, it's, I'm going to keep coming back to. to this because it's important because people are going to listen or watch and we appreciate everyone who is there was nothing blatant or like no nothing disrespectful done in these meetings no nothing contentious nothing disrespectful nothing where not even a single nothing was said

specifically about a word words that were said or actions it wasn't a body language none of that It was just, we've been in a million of these over whatever the course of our careers are. And you know when someone doesn't really truly care what our thoughts are on him. So now it's if you've got six in the top 10, and let's say Tennessee is going to pass on a quarterback, if the information is correct. And I don't even know that's definitively true. We've got a lot of time to figure that out. But if Tennessee passes on the quarterback, now you're down to five. So two of the teams, two of the teams are like, well, he doesn't, he's not coming.

He doesn't seem to think he's coming here. So now we're down to three. You know what I mean? Yeah. Why are we shrinking? And Cam's going to one of those. So now we're down to two. Right.

Cam's going. I get it. Yeah. So now we're down to two. Why are we shrinking the demand when there's more supply to leverage, right? Yeah, one of those teams. signed Sam Darnold in a week or whatever, you know, and all of a sudden, what's happening here? Like you said, the landscape is shifting.

It is quickly. To your penics point, too, maybe there's a surprise team that's looking to move up to go get them, but it has conversation. All these teams talk, man. Right. And so if I have a conversation, if I'm a general manager from a different team, it's like, we kind of quietly like Shador. We're outside of the top 10.

but we're kind of had we're investigating we're you know poking around to maybe potentially move up and grab them somewhere around five you know somewhere in that range Jacksonville might move out New England might move out we maybe we want to move but then I'm hearing this information and I promise you like people in the league that they talk like oh well then my thought process oh should they've already worked something out somewhere I mean you hope I don't know it's just there's just a lot bank you hope he's not banking on something like that if he doesn't know uh i mean if that's the approach then i hope they know something and you're right you're right if anyone is going to be in that position it's it's that family to understand you know that they might have something in place

so you're right about that but i hope he's not banking on someone coming to get him so let's look at the landscape a little bit before we move on to i found it fascinating no one brought up cam war And I said that before. So Cam Ward's either going, here's what we know, okay? Because you might as well check yourself into a loony bin. If you don't listen to Adam Schefter when he makes such definitive comments like he did about Cleveland is going to take a quarterback at number two. And I think we all agree Cam Ward would be that guy if that's the case. So based off that information, and by the way, it would be one of the greatest,

smokescreens of all time. If they were able to get the, like, the, and, and Schifty's a good friend of mine, like, I don't need to, I don't need to sit here and support Schaefter. Like, his work speaks for himself. He is like head and heels above everybody else in this business, period. Period. Period. There's one of him. He's him. He's him. Okay. Right. He's the guy. But I'm saying, how, how impressive would it be if Cleveland was able to, you know, send that smoke out there through, through him and it not be the case. Yeah, but you know who loves that report, right? Tennessee loves that report. Tennessee loves that report, but you asked a question, why would Cleveland do that? It's because they want to make sure if Cleveland's not going quarterback, which was some of the noise I was

hearing earlier, right? If Cleveland's not going quarterback, they want. Abdul to fall to him. They get a problem on their hands with Miles Garrett. So they're trying to get the giants to move up, or the jets from six to move up, or the Raiders from seven to move up ahead of the whoever, they don't care who it is. They just want to make sure that quarterback goes one.

If they've decided as an organization, we're not going quarterback, that's why we would get that information out there, because you want a quarterback to go any quarterback. If it's Abdul they love or if it's Travis they love, they want to make sure that that player is available to, okay? So we're all on the same page here. But again, check yourself into a looney bin. You belong in a psych ward if you don't at least take that seriously.

And so now all the all the buzz and rumors and speculation and all the kind of behind the scenes conversations that I was having and a lot of much more qualified people in the information business were having in Indianapolis for a week as we were. posted up there and it was 63 degrees one day and snowing the next. All the information was surrounding the giants at three and then some buzz about the jets at six. And then even some whispers about the Raiders at seven and they're interested in trading up ahead of Cleveland at two.

Remember that information comes out. Now all of a sudden, I think teams are like, all right, well, if they're taking them at two, and if we decide through this process that we want that cam wards our guy we're going to have to go up and get him and so tennessee has to your point coming back to it tennessee's in a great situation albert brier he's a burr lives down the road a good friend of ours and um he just i just love the monday morning quarterback peter king did it at like an exceptionally high level forever it's hard it's hard to it's hard to follow a legend uh but check out his monday morning quarterback I just thought it was fascinating.

If anyone's interested in like behind the scenes, what goes into the entire process of having that number one overall pick, who were the people involved in it, what's the history of their drafting and what they've been through before? I thought it was a fascinating read. But Tennessee is looking at it, according to Breer, and I wouldn't disagree from anything A, I've heard or B, that I believe in evaluating, that it's really going to come down to Cam Ward, Shador, Sanders,

Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter, that number one pick, or when they get to the end of their process, which is detailed in Albert Breers' Monday morning quarterback piece, if this guy isn't everything you need him to be in a number one pick, if they haven't found their guy, then we start listening seriously. Like, we'll field phone calls and talk like what it might. But if you get to the end of that process and you're like,

yeah, we really love this player. but it would be more beneficial for us to trade back. They're going to start fielding calls later and figure out what that would look like. And that's when we're going to start hearing are the Giants for real about moving up. Right. Just for real, you know, so there's a lot to come here and a lot to unpack. But the rumors, like there was a, as I said to you, like the valet guy, the bellhop, the bartender. I'm sure every single one of them in Indy heard something.

Someone has a take. Yeah, everyone has a take. Something. The barista in Starbucks, something about the Giants and their want to move up. And let me make this clear, too, because I know they came up short in the Matthew Stafford, the Giants deal. You know, there's a lot of talk about the Raiders and the Giants with Matthew Stafford. He winds up going back to the Rams.

I think even, to be honest, I think part of the, part of what was enticing is we can win now but while also getting our fan base excited about the future at quarterback. We can win a lot more games than we've been winning recently if you're the Giants with Matthew Stafford at quarterback and probably attract a free agent or two that we couldn't attract without him while still developing our next guy. And Matthew's not going to be pissed off about that because he's not planning on playing the league five more years.

Right. So I don't think coming up short on the Matthew Stafford sweepstakes will play at all into that. And maybe it's Aaron Rogers now. That's a name I've heard. Every one of these teams you're hearing Sam Darnold is a possibility. So I don't think one of those veterans, especially in Aaron Rogers, I think it would set up perfectly for what we've talked about with bring in a veteran,

have a gap, bridge the gap guy, and then draft a quarterback. So I think the Giants legit. legitimately will make phone calls if they haven't, and I'm certain they have already just to, hey, let us know, let us know if it becomes available and let's maybe talk to parameters on what it could be. But I think the Giants will potentially try to move up there. Yeah, that conversation has already started. I say that, and I go back to what you said, Munch,

either Sodor, and this is the most important thing I'm going to say today, either Shadour and Coach Prime, the Sanders family, and that team know exactly how this thing's going to play out, or based off of our tape study evaluation, and while we like Shador Sanders a whole lot, but also based off of the stuff that we see on tape that's concerning and the conversations that I've had, the Caleb Williams stuff, fraction of the athlete, all those sorts of things, it could be a long first night of the draft for Shador Sanders.

It's either this thing's going to be done, taken care of, they know exactly where he's going, they get the last laugh, or it could get really interesting that night. Yeah, I hope it's the first. Of course. Yeah, I have no interest in seeing how long. No, no.

I want him to land in the right spot where he's developed properly and has the most successful career he could ever have. Right, exactly. I love coach, Brian. I love what he's doing. I love that he's doing it differently. I think that there's a lot more to what he's doing

than just like the media attention and all that stuff. I find Chador to be fascinating. I think I love it. Find me a tougher quarterback. I mean, there are times he's getting knocked down 10, 12 times a game, popping right back up. I've seen him several times where I'm like, ugh.

And he's like, boom, right back up. So, like, we're polling for all of these guys. But, and I have a great appreciation for his toughness and, and his competitiveness, right? But it sets up to be fascinating that first night of the draft. It really does. It really does. This is not the last conversation we're going to have about this situation. Not at all.

Okay. So now the other part that was fascinating to be by, from all by conversations in Indianapolis, there's a lot more talk about that tier two quarterback group than even I expected. And you know I'm a big Jackson Dart fan. And I got to be honest, Tyler Shuck, I have a fascination with him. I think Tyler Shuck might be the second most physically gifted quarterback in this draft. No, scratch that. Tyler Shuck is the second most physically gifted quarterback in this class.

He's bigger than the other guys. He's faster than the other guys. He's got just a strong arm as Cam Ward. He's in that neighborhood at least. Tyler Shuck is mature. He's been through wars. He had three season ending injuries and everyone's knocking him on that. But they're bone breaks.

These are not knees. They're not hips. They're not backs. They're not things that are good. And I don't want to call them flukes because you do worry. Like some guys just break or don't hold up. as easily. So it absolutely will factor in. But Tyler Shuck's injuries were not things that are going to be recurring. They're not things that you worry about five, six years down the road.

Okay. And yeah, he's going to be 25. But what happened during this past seven years in college, starting out behind Justin Herbert as a backup and transferring three times, seven years in college, four different degrees and an additional degree in like life in how to handle adversity. He's gotten married. But yeah, but like the maturity level is different

with this cat than the other guys. Okay. And and five different offenses he's been through. True. You're more of the historian than I am. So tell me, feel free to point out why this is an issue. I couldn't care less to these 25.

years old. Quarterbacks now play until the... Balkans didn't care about Pennix's age last year. Why am I caring about that? With all the advancements, the way the game in terms of nutrition, in terms of training,

in terms of all that stuff, and then also the way the games change to protect quarterbacks. And not to mention the fact you could be 22 and have a career-ending injury tomorrow. That just happens. Yes. So I'm not really stressed out about that 25-year-old

thing. And I've got to be honest with you, there are very few, there are some, there are a handful, but very few general managers in the NFL who feel safe and very few head coaches. Probably fewer general managers, but very few at the top feel safe. Like, oh, I'm here for the next seven, 10 years. So why do I say that? I say that because decisions are made like what is the, what's next year look like,

but also with an eye towards what's the next three years look like? Correct. In the next three years, I'm getting a 25, 26, 26, seven-year-old kid, if you will. That's still a kid. Yes. Yes. But it comes in the league more prepared mentally, more prepared from what he's endured,

more prepared from the wars he's had to fight to get to where he is today, playing free and loose and appreciating. But with a chip, I'm getting a guy who's ready to go, is ready to go from a mental and a maturity standpoint as any question. quarterback in this class. More so. Don't take our word for it. Listen to the interview. And don't, and not only listen to the interview about what he says, because anyone can be coached up to, to say whatever. And he hit all of the marks. And you could say, oh, they're taught to do that. Listen to the way this man speaks. Listen to the way he talks about his past, about the way he's

looking forward to the future. Listen to him, make a play call. Listen to him, go through all of these things, the tone, the confidence, the way he goes through these things. And tell me, I don't think anyone can walk away from that and not say that this is a more mature prospect who's in a better position to succeed and is capable of handling adversity early in their career because he's already proven it. I just don't know how you can watch that interview or have any I'm assuming every discussion is like that because it didn't come across to me as, well, he's really well prepped for this. Good job. It came across to me. He's like, this is the Tyler I get at 930 on a Tuesday morning when we're going in to watch tape.

It's going to be the same Tyler when it's game time on Sunday. That's that's what I walked away from it thinking. So I mentioned, again, don't take our word for it. If you're wondering what we're talking about, just go listen to the interview. Yeah. And you can get it on the YouTube page, the McShay Show, and also on Fridays, the end of the Friday's podcast, whether it's Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Two and a half decades of this, it has provided me with a lot of,

wounds and battle scars over the years, but two and a half decades of doing this has also offered me a lot of wonderful perks and experience in this. And I've learned a lot of things, you know, that when a 25 year old me or a 35 year old me didn't quite realize and didn't know how to package, two and a half decades has thankfully provided me with a bullshit filter where I can sniff through. you know, like I've gotten pretty good at that, not perfect, but pretty good. And I think a lot of people in personnel departments feel the same way. I didn't sense any bullshit.

None. I just didn't. Like I didn't, there was nothing to sniff there. So, so going back to how I started this. What's fascinating to me, man, is a lot of people want to talk about these guys. So we've got Cam and we know he's going one or two is the, is the assumption. right now going one or two why all this interest in these other guys what i was still trying to figure it out well i'm because either should doors going somewhere and they and they know it okay um

i think i think there are some teams that are like hmm if it ain't cam ward if we're not going to be able to move up ahead of cleveland or if we're not going to be able to stay home and get him It's not the elite group we talk about every year in the draft. Maybe I'm better off taking a player at three, if you're the Giants or six if you're the Jets or seven of you're the Raiders or the Saints right after that. Let's get one of these really, really, really good players that we know is going to be a starter for a long time in the NFL is going to make an impact. It can help us out right away. And then let's get interested, let's get involved, sorry, with some of these second tier guys. because I'm not so sure.

This is the one I'm getting from teams. This is without it being said directly, but you kind of read through the tea leaves. I'm not so sure there's a huge difference between Shador Sanders and Jackson Dart, or Shador Sanders and Tyler Shuck. And I want to make this mention, too, because it was mentioned to me

on two different occasions as well, different people. Chip Kelly just took a piece of gold, a hole and turned it into a diamond. with Will Howard. Chip Kelly has a relationship with Will Howard. Chip Kelly has trust in Will Howard. Chip Kelly gets to as the new offensive coordinator for the Las Vegas Raiders

and the former offensive coordinator, the National Championship Ohio State Buckeye team, if Chip Kelly gets to pick up where he left right off with the same verbiage, knowing this guy trusting him in the film room, Will Howard's interesting in round two. Okay? Even though, yeah, it's viral and people are getting their yucks in,

the worst quarterback passing into the combine history. Like, get out of here. Can I talk about that for a second? Because I said, I had the reaction that night on our show that I said that I thought that he missed an opportunity after having this great playoff run. I called his performance uneven, I think. And I think that's fair to say. And then I go on on X, Twitter, whatever we want to call it these days, change it tomorrow.

And all I hear about is this is the worst throwing performance all time at the combine. And then we turn around. People are just bad. We wonder why guys don't throw at the combine. Because people can't be reasonable and can't say to themselves. One, he didn't have as much time to prep. Two, it wasn't the receivers that he's used to throwing to. And I'm not making an excuse for Will Howard.

It wasn't a great performance. I do think he missed an opportunity. But you know what? He went out and through when other guys didn't go out and throw. So now we're just, we're going to have these two different conversations all the time where we want everyone to compete. But when they don't, they get let off the hook eventually. But if Will Howard goes out there and does his thing and doesn't have a great day, then all of a sudden we're going to rip him to shreds and say it's, and I love that one too. These guys are like the worst combine performance.

Oh, you've watched them all? Did you run the tape on all of them? Shut up. Like that's like, that's so dumb. It's just so lazy. I love when you get worked up, brother. I love it. Again, I'm not making excuses for him.

It wasn't great, but that doesn't mean that all of a sudden. It can be not great. And he had a handful. He had four or five throws that were really not good. Okay. No, I agree. But he also was trying to throw it with anticipation, hit a spot, and the receivers didn't get there.

The one throw I talked about down in the deep seam, typically had been more of a post, post corner, sorry. and so like whatever man go watch the 16 games that taped this past year and decide there whether you like them or not that's fine but i saw i got i also had an interesting conversation too um let me just put it out i'm not going to say anything about that conversation except uh be careful if you're judging the uh the michigan game okay for will how i know exactly what you're talking about that's the best you can word it Yeah, watch a hit he took early in that game, and maybe he didn't bounce back as well as everyone thought. Maybe there's a reason they were running the ball as, you know, but I'm just going to throw that nugget out there. Because I think if you're looking at this,

you're like, well, Will Howard didn't throw well at the combat. Will Howard had his worst performance in the biggest game against Michigan. Okay. Well, the combines up, like, is 1% of 1% of how I'm going to evaluate a quarterback. And yes, we all thought that. But I'm saying make sure you're, make sure you're evaluating that game with some context and know that maybe, maybe he was a little worse off in that game after taking that big hit than he even knew or thought,

you know? So just leaving that out there. But the Raiders at 37 is really interesting. Yeah, because the connection. Because the connection, right? And I'm not saying it's only chip. And I, trust me, this organization has Tom Brady. sitting at the top, helping and being a big part, not helping, being a major part of the

decision making process when it comes to a lot of things, including especially when it comes to quarterbacks and where they're going to move forward. Okay. And if Will Howard's not that guy for Tom Brady, then it ain't going to be that guy for Chip Kelly, you know? I got news for everyone. The minority owner who's the goat is going to have a little bit more. all the shots, yeah. Who gets drafted than the offensive coordinator that just came in, okay? But I'm just saying that's an interesting tie there. Real quickly, Giants at 34, Titans at 35, Raiders at 37, Saints at 40, Jets at 42.

Here's my whole point on this. If one or two is where Cam Ward goes, okay, if Cam Ward, let's just say winds up going to, Let's say Tennessee stays home and takes Abdul Carter, as you and I both believe they should do if they don't get a great trade offer out of that number one spot. They take Abdul Carter. He goes number one. Number two, Cleveland Browns take Cam one.

The reason I'm mentioning all this is because these conversations I'm having in Indianapolis, there's a lot more talk about Jackson Dart, Tyler Shuck, and Will Howard than I expected to be. And it kind of caught me off guard a little bit. And I look at that run of the Giants at their 34, the Titans at 35, the Raiders at 37, the Saints at 40, and the Jets at 42. And I think to myself, huh, if they agree that there's not, agree with me, I'm not putting words in the Yormoth.

You can, we have a lot of time to unpack what you think in the quarterbacks moving forward. I have a general sense. If they agree with my assessment that there's not that big of a gap, in fact, this past year's tape tells you, maybe Tyler Shuck's going to be a better quarterback in the NFL than Shador Sanders. And some people, I talk to one person who really likes Jackson Dart, inside the league, team drafting quarterback, okay? If they don't think there's that big of a gap, or they have a higher grade or an equal grade with Dart or Shuck compared to that of Shador Sanders, sit back, wait till pick 20, 21, 22, somewhere in that range, figure out the

spot, move up. Yeah, you got to give away a little, but maybe that you're going to draft your franchise quarterback. Or maybe they sit back and wait for them to fall. But what I'm saying to you is, if I move up to the first round, if I find that sweet spot and I go up and I get my guy, yes, it's going to cost me a draft pick later. But it's also going to give me a fifth year option. So there's value in that.

Coin for coin. I'll give up a third or I'll give up a second next year to go up and get our guy. because now I'm going to get a fifth year option. And I think this guy's got a chance to be a good starting quarterback in this league and be our next guy. So that part's fascinating me. I know we've gone 51 minutes now, whatever it is. Can I have two more names really quickly? Two more names.

Quinn Ewers. I thought it had a solid workout. And then I opened up Burt Breer's article this morning and who's he lead it with, Quinn Ewers. And maybe his angle is here's a former Texas quarterback who, you know, kind of has dropped down boards. and I just, it's an interesting interview for me. Or maybe it's a Quinn years of starting to get a little more buzz too. And he's starting to go, I mean, I'm not saying first round.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that maybe the stock's stabilizing. And who is the quarterback that we spent all the college football season talking about? Jalen Milro. And I'm not saying I would do it. I'm not saying that. But we've talked about this and we will talk about this during the process, one team.

if one team looks at Jalen Milrow and says if we could get a potential Lamar Jackson and I think that's real rich man I do Jalen hurts yeah we can get a potential quarterback like that and we're not going to take a swing in the second round of the NFL draft man those two names are that

how we did it how he did it he just won his second Super Bowl and we have a great interview at the end of this podcast I'm telling you this was Howie in a different light This is the Howie that I've gotten to know that a lot of friends in the league, you know, Joe Douglas, who we played college with, who worked for Howie for a little while. And like, and there's been a lot of people in our circle that have worked with him. The Howie that I've kind of known or have known secondhand as well.

Like, we got that version of them, which was really cool to see. So please check that out. But Howie made that decision and kind of paid off, huh? Yeah. You know, and, and I promise you. there's some people in the league that are like, hmm, you can't coach that deep ball combined with that mobility. We get some time.

We've got a situation where we've got some time to develop. Yeah, it was a hard to watch at times at the senior bowl. Yeah, it was hard to watch at times this past year. I thought he was going to progress against Wisconsin. Saw that the first half of the Georgia game. Awesome. Second half wasn't that good. Never played again with a crimson tied helmet on.

Never played again like he did in that first half of the Georgia game. True. But can't coach what he's got. Can't coach it. Right. And we get time to develop it. So that'll be fascinating too. All right.

Still a lot to get to. Yeah, I always do it. I know. And we got another show this week. I'm just telling you. I know. Let's get to a few things, though. Okay. One interesting name that I heard more, and I want to get to some of the guys that really, really now that the dust is settled, I want to get to and talk about. And I'll open the floor to you. I went through a bunch of them in the McShay report. We're not going to get to all of them. Please go read it. I know it's $4. I joke about it, but I don't take it lightly. I appreciate it. Just Google the McShay report. You'll find it right there. It's $4 for all this information. No one else.

I was talking about it. I'm not saying, no, I'm certain many other people got it. I do question why they didn't bring it up. And I think I laid out early on what the motives are. But that's what really happened at the Combine this year. Shador Sanders did not give the vibe to a couple NFL teams that needed quarterback drafting in the top 10 that he truly genuinely cared what their thoughts were of him. So if you're interested in that kind of information, our mock drafts, draft boards,

Players rising falling as we're going to get to here right now in the combine. Please, please subscribe. $4 to get through this, this draft. And $4, $36, double down for this year's draft. Double down, baby. This year's draft and next year's draft. One player, I just want to throw it out there. Okay.

And I heard this quote two different times probably in not the exact same words, but I always love when people are like, they're doing me a solid. He's going to go earlier than you think. And I'm like, how do you know what I think? I know you're not getting, you're not subscribed to the McShay report. You're too busy, you know, running your draft. You never know.

You don't know what I think. But I appreciate and I just, I kind of laugh about it internally. When you hear the he's going to go higher than you think, they're like, I'm telling you something right now, whether we're going to or I know of other. This guy's going high. Tyler Booker, Guard, Alabama. And the same sentiments. Best interview we had here at the Combine.

Maybe the highest football character of any player in this draft. The story about the Alabama things were starting to get a little sideways, not going as well. And the team meeting that he basically stood up and was like, hey, relax, like Nick ain't here anymore. I know it's a little different, but we got a standard. Yeah, still out there. And I love our coach.

And we're going to do great things here, but don't get it twisted just because maybe it's not like, you know, foot on throat every day. Like we got a standard. We know what the standard is. Like, it's time to, it's time to accept personal responsibility.

It's like become like a thing of legends when you talk to scouts and people who, who know the. So yeah, he's a guard. And that was, yeah, he's a guard. but like the general manager that drafts Tyler Booker knows that they're going to get one of the elite guards in the NFL for a decade. And when they put in that pick, they're probably going to get booed. People aren't going to be excited about it. There's going to be all sorts of sports talk radio about it.

They're going to have to endure that. But they're also going to sleep like babies. Right. Thursday night of the draft getting ready for Friday because they know they just got a starter who's going to be a great player. And is going to bring that kind of level. of attention to detail and team leadership that you look for in your locker room. Yeah, can I tell you a quick character background is that he was in the Under Armour All-American game, the high school game, our good friend, Billy Tucker is the director of that game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I texted him before we came on. I was like, tell me about Tyler Booker. I got like five pictures of him and Billy together. Ultimate competitor. Great family. good kid just on and on on in the summer is that one of the underarm are all-American camps because i mean it's football i'm always around it like you know i'm sick in the head i'm talking to mike foley

he's an offensive line coach for years in college a highly respected guy didn't even bring up anyone he asked me what i did and he's like oh Tyler booker he's like he'd watch Tyler brooker he's he's gonna go early he's like man that guy's that kid was a monster he would show up to practice for that that all-star game and just look for the best one-on-one reps. He was just, he was trying, and to give people an idea of what the talent level was at that game, here are some of the other names, Shamar Stewart at that all-star game, Walter Nolan at that all-star game, Jehad Campbell at that all-star game. I mean, this is, this is the elite premium high school all-star game, and Tyler Booker was the kid that,

both the director and the offensive line coach were like, that's the guy that's going to turn into something in the league. Interesting. I, I, I, um, Getting the sense 13 Miami is around maybe a tick earlier, maybe a tick later. And I'm not saying that they're going to draft them. I don't have any intel on that, but I start to look at the board and kind of go back to the second offensive lineman off the board. I don't think that's that crazy. Well, let's get to this.

Let's get to who do you think is the first? Membu. I think Armand Membu is going to be the guy after that workup. I agree. This is not where I was going to go. I love Simmons. There's no more direction to the show. show, by the way. There's no, go where we're going to go where we're going to go. Yesterday, we're the

workouts for the, the offensive line. Membo, we, we watched some of the tape together. Two things happen, okay? Will Campbell had a great workout. I just want to start with that. Will Campbell from LSU widely considered the top offensive lineman in the class, had a great workout. And I'm not ignoring the, I'm not reading texts on the side. I'm going through so I can contextualize it right now. Ran at six, five, basically six, six, six, six, three. He ran a 498, awesome, you know, ran a 498, 32 inch vertical for that size is great. So, and looked really good in all, and everything he did and all the drills. Outstanding results all across the board.

Outstanding. Except for one. 32 and 5 eighths inches. And listen, I would be the biggest hypocrite in the world if I, if I sat here and be like, we can't play. Can't play lift out. Because I've literally, I've sat and I've sat down and talked to Kirk. Frank Ferens a couple of times and we've laughed both times about how stupid it is.

The people in the league are like, you can't play tackle. And the guys that he's produced from that Iowa program that have gone on to play tackle in the NFL at a high level. I've also studied and evaluated some guys that were all sub 34 inches that have gone on to be awesome in the NFL at tackle. Some of the best. Some of those names. Joe Thomas, David Bakhtiari, Penae Sewell, John Slater, Jason Peters, Brian Belaga,

Iowa guy, Jake Matthews, okay? So I would be a hypocrite, and I wouldn't be true to myself if I said, well, that just erases it for me, move him into guard, because I don't believe that. But I'm also a realist. And the thing about drafting a player in the top 10 as a general manager is that you've, such a big part of it is risk aversion. You know, you've got to do risk assessments. And it's a premium pit.

And so when you have a premium pick somewhere, talking about four to the New England Patriots, five Jacksonville, wherever the, you know, jets, six, bears, 10. When you have one of those picks as a general manager, you love the tape, but you start to say, okay, well, show me somewhere, show me another situation where this has happened. Some people just gave you the list, Joe Thomas, Bakhtiari, Sewell, Slater, Peters, Bilaga, Matthews, none of them were sub-33 inches. And it wasn't like 32-and-7-8s. It's 32, like we're talking 32-5-inch arcs.

So the only reasonable answer is I'm just, I'm not certain. I love his tape. I think he can. So is this going to be a free-for-all, a free fall, I should say? No, I'm not saying that. But I'm saying now you're looking at it and saying, okay, there's a red flag here that I've got to, I've got to account for. And it sucks because I love Will Campbell and I love his tape. And I love the way he battled.

And I see the lower body explosion. And I see his feet and how he moves. But I could see a scenario in which he's not the first offensive linemen off the board anymore. I feel from listening to you and other people that this is, you know, a little bit against the grain, but I'll be honest with you. This is a lot of what we do is risk analysis in terms of looking first round guys. This is a prospect that point blank scares the shit out of me. And here's why.

He has really good tape. Sure. Is it as clean as some people are making it out? I hear all these analytics and I'm sorry. I hear all these analytics of, oh, he only allowed this many sacks. So there didn't spend any pressures against SECs. And people who are throwing that out, I feel like aren't watching. Some of them aren't watching the tape.

I'm just going to be honest about that. That's what it feels like to me. Because when I watch the tape, I don't see those same numbers. It's good tape. He's a really good football player. Don't get me wrong. It's not that great. It's not elite tape.

If he had 34-inch arms and he was going against Joe Alt, we brought this up before the pick for the Chargers last year played out of Notre Dame, Joe Alt's coming off the board before he is just based on the tape. Not about length or any of that other stuff. So now we have a guy who I don't think is as clean on tape as other people think. He has short arms. And maybe he can do it.

Again, rooting for him. Maybe he can do it. Maybe he can overcom this red flag. Now you're telling he might have to move into guard. And guess what? That scares me too. And here's why. Have you seen his stance?

he's six foot six he has a hard time getting down man the idea that we're just going to be able to kick him inside and that he's going to be awesome is not a lock for me it's just not a lock for me so now this is a guy who's who is i think uh very high ceiling or a high ceiling but a low floor i'm scared man because you can you you you could throw on tapes and say to yourself look at this man it's really good. You're going to want that. But then you've got to look at these potential pitfalls. What if he can't play a guard and he doesn't work out a tackle and you just spent the 10th pick on him or the 13th pick on him, whatever you're talking about? He could pan out and he can make me look bad for passing on him. But we're talking about risk analysis here. We're talking about what's safe at that spot where he could potentially go.

And I'm telling you right now, like there's no other way from me. I don't swear a lot on this. he scares the shit out of me yeah great stuff just being upfront about it and yeah and i and these are the conversations that are going to happen where you got one side versus the other side inside of draft rooms and and and to your point right there that's the whole point now if and you got understand how this works if i'm a guy who's pounding the table for somebody else now i get ammunition because all that stuff you just said is ammunition but then you add the third 32 and 5 eighth inch arms with nobody in the history that I'm aware of overcoming that plane.

You know, that become, that's now, it's like, all right, not saying I don't like him, not saying he's going to go on to have a great career, all that. But as a general manager, if I'm hearing one guy on this side, one guy on that side, I'm like, well, who else is available, whether it's an offensive line or a different position when you're talking about a top 10 pick? I feel like I'm pumping up Bert Breer all pod today. But he said that he still thinks Campbell could be a top five pick. And he knows better about where our team might take him than I do.

I'm not saying he could be a top five pick. I'm just telling you right now, buyer beware. I'm a little nervous. And it's not because of his intangibles. He's an outstanding human being. It's not because of his experience. He's great. His tape is very good.

It is first round tape. I'm not sure it was early first round tape because there are some things that concern me. And then you're talking to listen. I've already said what I need to say about it. for now. At the same time, we've got, we've got Armand Membou going out at 604 to 332 pounds and running what he ran, which was a 491 running faster at what 16. By the way, Will Campbell, outstanding time. Those are ridiculous for Big Man. Both of them. But at 332, that's something. Yeah. And then 34 inch vertical. So like, if we're just talking traits and

offensive linemen like traits are critical. Now, we're not talking about, you know, a $25 cab ride or an $18 Uber to get around his arm length either. You love that line. I know.

I had to adjust it over the years because Membu's only 33 and a half, but that's more in line with guys like Jason Peters and Sewell and Bakhtiari and Joe Thomas in the list that I went through. Okay. So that part's fascinating to me. And I think Memboos got a real chance. to be the first offensive tackle, maybe the first offensive lineman off the board and could be a top 10 pick. I just, I don't know.

I know people don't want to go into 40 minutes on offensive linemen, but that is, that's critical. There is a market for it. I'm just going to say that. There's a market for the offensive line stuff. Yeah. And it's a major one because all these wonderful quarterbacks we talk about, we see, we see with the great, the second greatest of all time we want to call him, Patrick Mahomes, when you can't protect them, Everyone's ordinary.

When you can't protect them, everyone's ordinary. It doesn't matter how talented. So that's a potential shakeup in the top 10 too. So we get this Cam Ward stuff, this Shador Sanders stuff. One's kind of one solidified and locked. One's like we got these quarterbacks in the backdrop. Now we get a shakeup potentially in terms of the top offensive linemen. A lot of stuff going on.

Again, subscribe to the McShay report that we've got a bunch of guys. I spent the entire day. God bless my children. God bless Marissa. I don't know how she does. And I shouldn't, I should have my, like, be doing. I couldn't stop once I got started. I feel like we covered the running backs extremely well over the week. I just want to say this. When you've got guys like, like DJ Giddins from Kansas State at 212 pounds running a 4, 4,3, 39 and a half inch vertical, 10 Ted broad jump. those being the seventh best with the 4-4-3 and the second best at both the jumps.

And you put in his tape. And then you got guys, unfortunately, like Jordan James, who I love on tape, having 9-9 in the broad jump and 4-5-5, which was tied for the worst. That 9-9 was tied for the worst of the running backs to the combine in 4-5. I'm not saying one skyrocketing, one's drop. I'm just saying things got real interesting with these running. backs. Where they also got interested and interesting is Omar and Hampton's tape is sensational. I don't know why the buzz was not always there for Omari and Hampton if it was there for

Boise State running back. And I know I'm preaching to the choir match. Because when I came back and actually did the deep dive on Omari and Hampton, you had already done it and you were already there. I just sometimes get to yell louder or choose to yell louder. but but it's real now like jinchi's most likely going to be the first back off of the board but there's definitely now two running backs coming off the board and i don't say just off the work i'm saying like now talking to more people we're not on some island some some hampton island with uh with two running backs coming off the board i think there could be potentially three but it's kind of the information slash what we saw i think

I think the two biggest elements of the running back position is not that big a gap between the two. And it won't shock me if Omerion Hampton winds up going before Gentie, although I do think Gentie will be the first back off the board. And the second one is that Judkins workout really turned some up heads. And here's the thing, Trayvion Henderson was exceptional in his own regard. And they were very close in everything they did. But with his size, his power as a runner, going out and putting on the performance that he did,

that turns some heads, man. It really did from people I'm talking to. And, and I think, like I said, like even Lane Kiffin back in the day was like, yeah, he's an awesome back. But I don't know that he's going to have the explosion numbers that. And I was like, okay. And I believed him.

I think it shocked a lot of people when Judkins came out. And he, at his size and his power as a runner, 221 pounds. He had the 11 foot broad, number one broad. Jeez. Fourth best vertical, 38 and a half. 4-48 and the 40. So like there's some explosion there that I didn't,

that I don't think a lot of people were certain was going to be there. So that was interesting at the running back position. A couple of guys that just, I just want to jam home, and then you can take it where you want. Guys that are absolutely moving up boards, and I think you better get used to their name. games and when we talk about day two of the draft, okay? No, day one with this guy.

I had a personnel person that I trust, high ranking, said, I think you need to start talking about Mad Max in the first round. Maxwell Hairsten, cornerback, and I don't know, meant you love them too. A lot of zone guy, a lot of zone coverage tape at Kentucky. but but when he turns and runs and covers man to man he's got man traits yeah he's got man traits okay 511 and change 183 pounds not a great tackler we'll just leave it there he can improve as a tackler you can excuse it away with the 50 solo tackles or 55 whatever it was a year before as you mentioned you can excuse it away with the shoulder but i've seen when everything's right and and he's got to

improve in that area but most important parts are can you cover can you can you allow us to be multiple in our scheme? Wait, this guy can play zone and man just as well. And he's got the speed. He ran a 4-28, man. Fastest time in the combine. 4-28. Three-picks shows up on tape.

Shows up on tape. Three pick sixes. Ballhawk. He's not getting out of the first round, I don't think. No, you know, here's the thing. And I said it to you over there. What bothered me about him was his frame. And I was, and I said, you, he's too small.

He's too small. And so when I do that, I try to check myself a little bit and look at, you know, similar corners. Guess who I love is me a potentially top 10 pick, Jadae Barron. And all of a sudden, he's not too small, but Max Harrison is. So when you look at them, they're very similar frames. Now, Barron's a better player and Barron's a better tackler. And more thicker.

And 183 for Mad Max, for Maxwell-Hirston versus Barron. was 194. And I think Harrison's a little longer, but whatever. They're in the same camp in terms of those frames. So I'm looking at that. I'm like, you're willing to take Barron as a potential top 10, top 12 pick, but not Harrison in the first round. And that, you kind of changed my outlook.

And I'm like, this is crazy. This kid could cover. He's definitely going to go in the first round, I think. Some other guys that I think there's going to be a little, there's going to be a, a sea shift, if you will. I said it before the combine started. I just I can't put my full stamp on Tet McMillan from Arizona. He did not work out there.

Nothing has changed with his evaluation. Really good player. If things work out well and he develops, he's going to be kind of a Drake London type. And Drake London, year two, had over a thousand receiving yards. Don't see the same dog. Don't see the same consistency. Don't see the same attention to detail that I saw.

And Drake coming out doesn't mean we're not going to see that in the NFL. Matthew Golden's my wide receiver one. And I'm done. I'm done. I'm okay with that. Still in the same bucket, still in the same cluster, but tier, whatever you want to call it. Matthew Golden's my number, my number one receiver in this class.

Ran a 4-29, second fastest time in the entire class and fastest of all the receivers. You add that to the crisp route running. You add that to the ability to adjust the ball and some of the catches that he made. You had that to showing up big and big. games when he finally became the guy at Texas. I don't know what took them so long, but he finally became the focus.

You could see early in games. It wasn't about trying to feed Isaiah Bond. It was about Matthew Golden, who had transferred in from Houston. He can be both the consistently reliable player that a quarterback is looking for because of his routes, ability to separate ball skills, and a vertical weapon. Yeah. I'm taking that guy. Number two, Jalen Noel is everything I hoped he had in terms of a workout.

He's in my top five receivers. I don't think he's going to last terribly long in the second round. Some people see his size and they're like, oh, he's a nice slot, put him in the third. And his teammate had an awesome workout too. And I think Higgins, Jaden Higgins could wind up maybe going a little bit ahead of him. One guy's an X, the other's a Z or even a slot, however you want to play him, different players. but he is a special route runner and he had a vertical jump of 41 and a half inches and he had a broad jump of 11-2 both best in class jalen noel best in class okay and i want to go back to his tape go check out of mickshay 13 on

x look at some of the clips that i shared it's like a drunken sailor that night like just ripping off clips him working in and out of zones him setting up db isn't breaking the separation he creates. I love those Iowa State receivers. Another one that had an awesome workout. Jalen Noel. I just said Jalen Lane, the other Jalen. Jalen Lane, man. You talk about a football character,

grinding it out. Talk about when you have conversations about special teams. A little buzz there around conversations. Yep. Yep. Not only did he tie for the third fastest 40 time at 434. And he's a bet take a step back. Decorated return specialists. Special teams maven, some big plays at special teams throughout

his career. So you know right away, I'm getting contribution from this guy. Now, he's a receiver developed over his career. I just, I love what I've heard about him. Transfer from Virginia Tech from Middle Tennessee State. Leader of not a big passing game, right? Let's put it that way. Not a proficient passing game. But still the last two years you combine him. He was a leader of the receivers for for the Hokies 434 I mentioned third fastest of the group third fastest 10 yard split so he gets he heats it up fast 1-5-0 um he's only 1991 pounds 590 509 6 59 and a half just over uh or two-thirds which is why he won't go but 40 inch vertical 11 foot uh broad short shuttle he did he was one of what i wrote it down here somewhere um only him and noel put up those numbers

sub 4-4, 11-foot, broad, and 40-inch verticals? He had top three results among the wide receivers in all these things, vertical jump, broad jump, short shuttle, and three cone. And I wrote down somewhere, I don't know if it's here. He was one of like four or five guys and all, like the 40-something wide receivers that actually did everything. You know what that does? It matches exactly what I heard about his competitiveness.

So Jalen Lane, second. I'm getting a lot of the same feelings and vibes with this guy that I got when Terry McLaurin came out of Ohio State when I went to that pro day to see a bunch of other stars, Bosa, a bunch of other guys. Terry McCormin's a lot bigger though, right? Yes, but I'm saying the conversations I had with people at Ohio State and some of the scouts I talked to there when I wanted to talk about the stars that ESPN sent me to go do and the wide receivers are going the first round.

Okay? everyone wanted to talk about McLaurin. It's kind of like that with Lane. People are going out of their way. That's it. Yeah. All right. That's it.

We got enough. Yeah, you always have to empty the clip here. I'm going to say two things. I'm going to be done in about 30 seconds. That's. Jaden Higgins, the receiver from Iowa State. Absolutely going in the first round now. Second, I don't know when Devin Neal is going to go,

but I can be almost certain that it's going to be too late. And I know they ran a four, five, eight. He's the guy that we're going to look back. Kansas running back. Kansas running back, Devin Neal, who will be the player? We'll look back and I'll say to you, man, yeah, Devin Neil ran a, yeah, remember Devin Neal ran a 4-5-8, and we all dropped them. Was it Devin Singleton?

Was it Singleton who ran poorly? I don't know. I mean, there's a bunch of them that have run in the four-fives that have turned into damn good backs, man. Oh, no question. No question. In Devin'Neal, I just, I think people are going to drop them, and it's going to be a mistake. We've gone way too long. You're the best in the business as the co-host because of what you just did.

You just dropped two bombs in there at the very end. You did it in 30 seconds. While I took an hour, 21 minutes and 12 seconds or whatever it is, I'm looking at the screen now to get to stuff that probably we could have done 40 minutes, but I hope everyone enjoyed the show. We appreciate your support. Up next, awesome interview with Howie Roseman, Super Bowl winning, two-time Super Bowl winning general manager and a guy who everyone was like,

he's not a football guy, never played ball in college, doesn't know what he's doing. Well, clearly is doing something right. And he opened up in this interview. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Thanks for watching. We'll be back on Thursday morning. That's going to be the schedule. Monday afternoons, Thursday when you wake up, first thing, we're going to be right there.

Your inbox, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and we'll be consistent with that through the draft. So appreciate you. And please enjoy this interview with Howie Roos. Howie, we appreciate it, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Take me through this, right? I've never won a national championship,

never won a Super Bowl, worked in this business, we're all competitive people. When the confetti comes down, knowing everything that's gone into it and that this is your baby, right? Like all the work and everything you've put in all the years and the struggles. And when it comes down, you're holding the trophy,

is it there on the stage, on the field? Is it on the stage? Is it back in the, under the, you know, the bowels of the stadium when you have that moment where you're like, I don't know, what is it? Is it gratitude? Is it adrenaline? Like, what did it take us through that? I think it's all of those.

But I think I got to go back and you'll love this because it's your old teammate. You know, so in 2017, we were on our way to Minnesota and I said something to Joe. I said, when if we win this game, I said, you're not going to find me for a month. You know, I'm going to be on a bender. I'm celebrating. It's going to be unbelievable. And that moment, I think, was a little different than this. And that was the first one.

And had been part of teams that had lost five championship games, four championship games on a Super Bowl. And, you know, we won that, really on the last play. I mean, Tom still got the ball on his hand, down eight, and the ball's in the air. I can't find it. You know, it looks like someone caught it, but actually hit the ground. And then it's just like, it's almost partly relief, definitely joy.

but it's almost like man you got one right right and so we come back from Minnesota Monday Tuesday it's like 930 like where's Joe you and I call him I go where are you bro and he goes I'm having breakfast to my family I'm like get your ass in here we're six weeks behind everyone we're gonna get her ass kick and he goes hey and I go what's up because what happened to the month bender what happened to what happened to like this all I did I said we got we got to get another one. Our good friend Joe Douglas, that sounds like him. And so I think for me, the first, is this PG-Rater or PG-13? You do whatever you want. Whatever you want. So I'd say like

the first one's almost like, can I say this? Can I say this? Can we delete this live? You don't know what I'm say? You don't know. This is the best part. You can be you. It's almost like the first time you have sex. You're so glad you had sex. It's not even the quality of it. The second time, the second time, it's like, wow, I could actually have fun and enjoy this. And so I would say, and Bob just had sex first time a couple weeks ago. So I think that, you know, maybe he could talk about the first time again. But I think that this one, now the game was a little different, you know, and we're fortunate about that.

But I think this one, it was more fun. It was like less of a relief, less of like just like, all right, I got one. Like, I can check that box off. and more like let's enjoy it, let's have fun, understanding a little bit better how to celebrate it. And so, you know, I think because of the way the game was, it was easier to kind of go down and celebrate with the players. And that confetti, when that confetti falls, and it's, I think, a little different than the championship games. When that confetti falls and you know you're the last team standing, that's the only thing you strive for going forward. And it's like it used to be when I was at GM, it used to be,

we won the division, we made the playoffs, all right, we probably get another year on our contract. Great, you know. And then once you feel that, it's almost like, this is the only way I can truly feel good about a season. And being, doing that with people you actually genuinely care about, players, coaches, staff, ownership, and then obviously your family and friends, special.

You've endured some shit, man. Like, it's been a long road for you. And I've always respected that about you. Like, you've gone your own path. I mean, you look at like front office intern, salary cap, council, uh, director of football administration to get where you were. When you look back on all of it, what was it about the pet, your path now that becomes a strength over time, right?

At first you're kind of trying to overcome it and trying to move on and become where you are now. But then it becomes part of your DNA. and part of what makes you unique and what makes you special. What is it about your path that really helped you? Well, I had an incredible passion for football since I can remember. It was always kind of like this unusual obsession with football, and I always kind of wanted to do this, and no one would really give me the opportunity, you know,

because I obviously didn't play in college. And so I went to Florida. I tried to go work for the football program there. I loved evaluating players. Every draft cycle from the time I was eight years old, I'd write up players, I'd watch the draft, I'd watch games, I'd write them up. And so I had this, like, this is what I'm going to do. This is what I was meant to do.

And nobody really encouraged that. I just kind of felt that. So Florida, nobody gave me a chance. I kept writing letters, 32 teams, you know, like I'm sure, like you did. We all did. But we had to write the fucking letters, you know. Yeah. Different now that's sending an email.

Like, someone sends me an email. Yeah, I'm not going to respond to your email, my man. But, and then I went to law school because the captain. it just started. And basically, Mike Tanabam in 1996, a long time ago, basically said to me, hey, it's going to be hard for you to get a scouting job. You know, and I said, I like scouting. I like evaluating players.

She goes, have you thought about cap? And I said, yeah, I had. It's not kind of what I wanted to do. And he said, well, there's not a lot of guys doing it. So I went to law school just to get a job in the NFL. And then my first interview was with the Jets. And it was a scouting job. I ended up not getting it, but they kind of referred me to the Eagles,

who I'd sent so many letters to. And I basically said, like, yeah, you know, Cap, interesting, but I want to evaluate players. Like, I want to get into the scouting side of it. And they told me, and Andy had just got there in Joe Banner, and they said, hey, you do this job well, and we'll expand your role. And I was fortunate to get there at a time

that they were just starting to have success. Andy had just gotten there. And we had unbelievable staff. I mean, you look around. I mean, we had dinner last night with a bunch of them. It was Tom Hacker was our GM. me, may rest in peace. And this guy, I'd watch tape.

He wasn't like, stop watching tape. He'd be like, all right, what'd you think? You know, or here's some tips. And it was the whole staff. And it was Jason Lydde and Ryan Grickson and Matt Russell. And, you know, now SpyTech came along. Now he's a GM. And Johnson, I mean, all this group of people,

we were all kind of the same age. And with Andy and his staff, which, what, eight or nine of them ended up becoming head coaches? And we're waiting. And it was just this, like, inclusive, like, hey, if you can help, if you can find some guys, you can do it. If you do your job well, we'll give you more. And then if you do that job well, we'll give you more.

And so they let me do pro guys. And then, you know, Coach Reed, and I'll never forget this, he said, listen, if you ever want to be a GM for me, you're going to go on the road. And I was like, man, I got to go on the road and leave my, and this is 2007, 2008. And I had done a couple school calls. And it was unbelievable advice because for me to be able to be able to be able to, you know, to go to our scouts and say, hey, I went to 35 schools. I know what you're going through, you know, as opposed to just like, yeah, just go find

us the players, you know, and I don't want to hear your horror stories. To be able to go through it was so smart, I mean, this is why Andy's unbelievable. And so to have that kind of backing and that organization. And then so it was really kind of, and I got a point to this, it was really like, it was just arrow up, you know, like everything was going well. I kept getting promoted. And I was working with people, whether Joe was the president team, Jeffrey, obviously the owner, Andy, who had been there, and we all have been together. And then when I became GM for Andy and still obviously him and the greatness of him, and then he leaves, right?

You know, and that year was tough. His son died. It was really tough on all of us. And he left and he needed a fresh start. And then it was like, all right, like I had worked with all these people who had really come. kind of become like family. Now we have to go find a head coach for the first time. And it was like, all right, well, what are we looking for? You're replacing this legend. He's the greatest coach of all time, you know, certainly in the top three, in my opinion.

And so it's like, all right, let's just go find someone innovative, someone dynamic, you know, none of like, how are they going to interact with the rest of the building, how are they going to interact with me? How are they going to treat everything? It's just like results, results, results, results. and I paid for that with my job. Yeah. You know? And it was the first time that it really was like, wait, it's not really going well, you know? And teams were okay.

We won 10 games, but both years that I was with Coach Kelly. But it was all of a sudden, like different visions, different philosophies, and it was like, I was out. And that adversity, I think, to me, was the best thing that could happen to me because as a young GM and things going your way, and then publicly kind of embarrassed and having to reset and to kind of get back to like but what did you what did you lean on then like that's that's that's a but you lost your dream job yeah you're like hey hey move on out and that takes like a certain level of like mental strength like we've all like i just lost a job a year and a half ago it's got laid up like anyone who's ambitious in the world has failures right you have that but what did you lean on personal

Well, one, it was almost like, all right, I had this opportunity. It didn't work. No matter how much time, and I didn't really do it the way I wanted to. I kind of like, I didn't, the values that I thought that I had to run a team, I didn't reflect them. And so I said, you know, I'll probably not get an opportunity again. They're so hard to come by. But at the time, I was still employed by the Eagles, you know, because we weren't losing. You know, so I was still employed.

And Jeffrey let me go meet with people and talk to people. people. And it was unbelievable. And it really, someday, like, I should write a book about that year or just the people that I met and inside sports, outside sports, Fortune 500 companies, the best GMs in the world. You know, R.C. Buford, you know, I'm in London speaking at conference with him and meet him around a train. And he said this, and this is the best thing I learned in a year. I can travel all over the world and on this one train ride and RC's my buddy still. And we're on a train and we're with another guy who was GM of a European soccer team. You're going to Manchester, go visit Manchester United after he spoke at a conference.

And we were supposed to get on a train, and R.C. and I were hungry, so we, like, went to get something to eat his diabetes. He's like, I need something, you know? And the other guy stayed, and all of a sudden we come back, we can't find him. We looked on the board, and it's, like, change to Manchester leaving now. And so me and him are, like, running with our bags, like, I think, like, OJ, and that hurts commercial. And so we go, and we hop on the train, and we get there. And our seat's like, Mike, we're on the train, where are you sitting?

And he's like, the train leaves in 20 minutes. Oh, we're on. We'll meet you there, you know. So I go, this awesome RC, I really want that it grabbed you and talk to you. I was like, grab my notebook and I'm like, so tell me how you build a team. He's like, what? Like, what are you looking for in players? And he's like, I don't think that's it, Howie. I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, well, it was always my dream to be a GM. You know, I was, Pop was an assistant coach. He gets promoted and he's basically, I want you to be a GM. I got to do this press conference. We're firing Bob Hill. and so we go upstairs and I got all my notes and I'm like this is how we want to build a team and Pop's like all right he's like this is how we're going to do it any minute he's like take my notebook I know what's the first thing he goes well the first thing we're going to do we're going to

hire people that are really good at their jobs that we love being around that are really good people and you're great what's number two and he goes that's it interesting yeah and my heart stop and I went that's it that's it not that hard are really good people. You like being around who are good at their jobs. Does that affect how you evaluate players, too? No, no. You don't just look at talent.

You don't look at production. And talk about this. I mean, it's easy to make excuses for guys. So it's easy for us to go, you know, on a case-by-case basis, go, oh, I think we can get this guy. So for us, we have some objective things that I can't even overrule. You know, like, and they're ours, but, you know, for one, like, violence against women. Like, it's just not for us.

You know, that doesn't mean. So it's like, I won't even watch them. I don't want to talk about it. It just is deal breaker for us. So I can't go, but he's really good and he did it 10 years ago and he learned from it. It just doesn't work for us. So I want to be able, I got four kids. I want them to be able to walk in the locker room and me not have to go, just skip over that locker.

Now, that doesn't mean we got perfect guys. I mean, they're different backgrounds, you know. Some guys pop off more than others. Our head coach does that, you know, sometimes, you know. He's my guy. But I think for us, like, having good people, having people that you can rally around, you know, and I think that our two championship teams really had really good people. And so now it's like, you can't tell me that we can't win with good people.

Like, we can't be at the top of the mountain with good people. And it's the same off the field. You know, it's interesting, Joe Douglas, who you were referring to before, he called me when he got the Jets job, is the general manager. He's just seeing what I was up to and all of that, but I was like, so what's, what's the plan? He's like, the only thing I care about right now is finding good people that I trust that are going to be, that I want to be around every day, that want to all be together. And that's, that's my mission right now, you know, so it's interesting to hear.

Joe, and I feel like this is like a, you know, or constant shout-outs to Joe, which he deserves. But, you know, in 2015, when I was down and out, he called me and he did something for me. And I told him. I said, you didn't have to do this for me. I will never forget it. If I ever get a job again, you're my first hire. And I begged Ryan Pace, I said, and he said, no, not before the draft. And I remember telling Jeffrey, you know, like, we got to wait for this guy.

This guy. He's got a special guy. And because of what kind of person he is. Yeah. But I think that's, I mean, a lot of people out there, I think, I mean, I think, Here we are at the Combine, right? We've got heights and weights and wingspans, 40 times, and all these things that people are going to be crunching going mad over.

But at the end of the day, to hear from the Super Bowl winning general manager that literally nothing's more important than surrounding yourself with good people. Now, I use this line, too, like, they better be talented. The best person I've ever met is my wife, and I don't want her playing the linebacker for us either. So, like, they better be talented to give people. There's no doubt about it. So some of this does matter, but it is to have those because we are going to have adversity, whether you and I have it with our jobs and how it affects our life or during the course of the season.

I mean, we were two and two. We went into the by week coming off a one and six. So what were you three and eight over our last 11 games? And everyone was bearing us. And that week, that by week, everyone got together and said, all right, we have too good of a team. We have too many good people. How are we fixing it? And it wasn't like, your fault, your fault, your fault.

It was like, we've got to fix this. It's too good of an opportunity. And I think that if you don't have the right people, that comes into fingerprint. And that comes into, it ain't my fault. You know, you got to fix this. You got to fix this. And when I look back at our season, that moment, and you go into the season, you know this, you go into the season, you go, week five, bye.

Gosh, it's freaking, still warm and fun. freaking feeling. Even if I wanted to go away, it's going to be the same weather wherever I go away. Like, this stinks, you know? It was the best thing to happen. I've studied your rosters for a long time. This is the first time. Part of the reason I love this new gig is I can actually delve into things and have the time to do it and talk to an audience that really cares about more than just the quarterbacks and top 10 prospects, right? So I've studied your rosters and other organizations as well. There are some trends that I find that are fairly obvious

and I don't want to get in the weeds of all of it but obviously like the quarterback, the number of quarterbacks going back to your first draft was a Kafka, right? The first draft and then it was Foles, I run it up Foles, Matt Barkley, Wence, Clayton Thorson, Jalen Hertz,

Tanner McKee, even when you've got guys and you've got your guy, you're still drafting them every couple every three years, right? I'm curious just philosophically. Is that just a Bill Walsh thing or Is that like, what value do you see in that? Well, I think sometimes people forget, you know,

Andy's with Green Bay with Ron. And he could be good at anything in football. He'd be an unbelievable. I mean, he was an unbelievable GM. Yeah. And so, you know, he spent a lot of time with Ron when he was the position coach there. And so a lot of the things Ron was a trapped quarterback every year. And in Philly, we try to do that with.

him you know we drafted Kevin Cobb in 2007 when Donovan was still in the problem of his career you know we had flipped guys you know we had um we had AJ Feely we traded to Minnesota for a second round pick like it was always common you know our back no no team has benefited from the back of quarterback position over the last 25 years more than the Philadelphia vehicles yeah absolutely no team and so it was always like you can't have enough and and if you lose your starter now your third you're back up now he's one snap away so like building that depth and how do you do that well they're hard to find so if you like one you better draft one and um you know it's funny with kaffka

remember like he played at minnesota they were playing in the old metrodome in in 2010 and i went to northwestern like the next week and he like threw for 2 30 and ran for like 120 and i'm like oh my god this guy we got to get this guy you know like i and then you know like three years later and he's like, I think it'll be a better coach, you know. He's like, it's okay, Roseman, you know, but I think he'll be a better coach, you know. Right, you know, he's a heck of a coach, smarter, smart. But I think you also got to be willing to understand, like, it's such an important position that you can't beat yourself up if you swing in this.

Because if even you go one for five, you're killing it. Yeah, yeah. Killing it. So it's always been, you know, for us, a philosophy. You can't force it. Now, if there's nobody like, you just don't take one, just take one. But it's always been something. And I think it really goes back to Ron, to Andy, to kind of how we were with him.

Could you take me back to last year's draft? Did you go into that the first night thinking that you were in Quignon Mitchell, where you got him? No. And then the second night, Cooper DeGine. Did you have any idea that they would last that long? No, I don't think that there was any scenario where we thought Q would be there where we were picking in 22. I think that once the offensive players started falling, and we got to like 16 or 17, and we kind of saw the way the board was, it was like, it's going to be a good spot for us

and what we need. When did you start to get excited? Well, I remember Jeffers, like, do you want to move up? And I said, I think we're going to be all right. And he goes, whoa, you're not moving up. And I said, no, I think we're going to be right. Now, you just looked at the teams in that range, and he said, maybe one, maybe one, maybe. maybe two takes a corner, maybe someone trades up, but I think we're going to be all right.

And certainly, in a lot of the scenarios we did, some of them came down to Coup being there, 22. Yeah. And being able to. So, you know, in this business, like any business, you've got to get a little lucky for sure. Luck plays a part in it. And the way that the draft went from an offense perspective, obviously kind of fit what we need at the time. you've spent an unbelievably disproportionate number of premium picks on defensive players. I used to have conversations with Bill Paul.

He always went back to, you've got Peyton and quarterbacks. Quarterbacks can make up for sins of 10 other players. But if you got your quarterback, you can trust him to elevate everyone on that side of the ball. You can't do a whole lot for the defensive side. So the philosophy was when you get that guy, you know, make sure you're focusing a lot of capital on the defensive side. Obviously, you didn't get that from Bill Pollyam, but I'm saying you guys as much as any team in the league over the last several years, not last several. Go back to 2010. Your first draft pick was branding Graham.

In fact, we talked about that Kafka year that for I think your first five picks were defensive players. And then defensive linemen specifically, give me, like, what's the philosophy? What's your mindset? What are your reasoning? I'm thinking about Bill, obviously, tremendous respect for him, and I'm thinking, well, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgar James, Toree, Len, Jeff Saturday. I'm not sure he's really telling you the truth right there. Like, I'm looking at that now. Their addresses are pretty freaking good, too, you know, so. But I think that at the end of the day, if you... I'm not going to sit there in question. No, no, no, no, for sure, Hall of Fame. But I think that

how I would translate that is when you have a... an offense that is capable of scoring points and bunches, you're gonna be playing from ahead from a lot. So how can you close games? How can you close games? And so there are certain points of the defense that help you close games, front end, back end of defense, and that help you when it's playoff time.

And so I think that that's probably how I translate to kind of what he was saying, which is kind of what we think. It's like, all right, if you have this high-powered offense, you have an opportunity to get the lead. How do you keep the lead? is obviously you know teams are going to have to be one dimensional, so you have to be able to pressure the quarterback. You have to be able to defend the pass.

It's going to be hard when teams are down two, three scores to come back with the running game. Last thing for you, I know you've got to run, and I appreciate your time. I truly do. I know you're being ripped all over the place this week. But the most important question, so it's draft week, and you're getting ready and prepared.

You've got your board ready and everything. Who's in charge of the spread? Like, how, I know you delegate some things, but you're in control of every, who's... The food? Do you know this about me? No, I swear to God, I don't. I think that, like, Dom's over here, you know, freaking huge part of Philly, you know. And Ryan Grisson said this to me a long time ago.

He said, I think the reason you like Lyman so much is because you think you can eat like a lot. Like, I have this passion for food that it's like... Good. I was worried. I was worried, to be honest. for football. And it's like that's a lot of my, the reason I got close to Coach Reed was because we talk food all the time. In fact, when I'm here, every year, no matter what my job has been, there are two places I bring to Coach Reed. We talk about food all the time. In fact, we went to

Emeralds in 2012. We had, maybe the GM was an Eagles fan and they put us in the back and I was sick. and he was like, bros, but he would love this dish. I love food. So that spread, that weekend is like, I'm starting to like look my left

and look at my end we get good food in Italy. But where's this coming from? I'm just always curious because I feel like some GMs we're going to talk to, it's like, yeah, well, I had delegate to this to stuff.

Like the people I really want to get to know more and spend time with are people who want food. Care about food. Yeah. In life. And so like if you don't care about what's going on

with your food and draft weekend. We can have a business relationship, but I don't think I ever want to. You know what's interesting, God, I will say this. I have a lot of flaws. One of them is I'm extremely judgmental. So, like, if I'm going to a school call, like, it's November, it's Dreary and Philly. I'm probably going to California, Florida, you know, I'll be honest, right? Yeah.

But I will always say to our city, give me a restaurant, give me restaurant. And if they can't give me a good restaurant, I will forever judge that. Yes. We go to a city that, on the road, that one of our first, our scouts lives in and say, give me a restaurant. Some of them, they won't even give it to me anymore. They're like, I don't want to be judged. I don't want to be judged.

And it's so important. If you're going to tell me, if you're going to stand on the table for a restaurant, you better, how do I feel about food and restaurants? It's literally like that. There's no one eating anymore when we go on the road who eat. It's just like, just tell us where we're going. Yeah. Because I don't want to do.

I appreciate your time, man. Really do. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland.

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