The McShay Show - Rough Draft 1.3: Mailbag! Talking Untold Kiper Stories, the Best Non-QBs in the 2026 NFL Draft, the College Football Coaching Carousel, and More.

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Welcome to The McShay Show! Today, the guys are answering college football (and life) questions from premium subscribers of The McShay Report. Subscribe here for access to an additional batch of mailbag answers and all of Todd’s draft content throughout the college football season. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!2:42 Week 10 Preview + Picks!10:22 Mid-Season Mailbag Special11:24 Ken: Do any non-QBs have a chance to be drafted no. 1?17:50 Caleb: Will schools move quickly to prevent mass transfers of players?25:10 Kevin: How do coaching changes impact the draft process for prospects?30:28 Luke: How does the 2026 QB draft market change if most of the top prospects return to school?39:15 Jake: Will Utah OT Caleb Lomu rise throughout the draft process?42:20 Randy: Who are the best interior O-linemen that you have on your board?44:15 JJ: Thoughts on draft-eligible Iowa OL players Jones, Dunker, and Stephens?46:58 Brian: What's a typical college football Saturday like for you and Muench?50:20 Tom: Does Texas Tech have to win its league to get into the CFP?53:45 Anthony/Mike: Thoughts on Pitt QB Mason Heintschel?55:30 Michael: How do you scout a player who is possibly playing out of position or getting poor coaching?59:45 Kevin: What’s the draft prospect prediction from your career that you’re most proud of?1:04:40 Marty: Do you have any good Kiper stories that maybe we haven’t heard before?1:18:50 Andrew: Do you have any advice or tips for a new dad? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today is your show, produced and directed by our supporters, from NFL team fits for top quarterbacks in next April's draft, to the sandstorm of college coaching changes to what's going on with Kuiper and me. You ask, we answer. I'm feeling a rough draft in the air in just 175 days until the NFL draft. Mitch, you good? I'm good, man. Roll that beat, tuck. We've got a special rough draft show for you today. Today's about giving back, given what the supporters are asking for. They've got questions. We've got answers. I'm excited for. Today, we're going to just open it up to a mailbag. We've got questions, so many questions poured in. This episode is presented by Duluth Trading Company. Ready to give rival tailgates the foam finger. Duluth Trading Company crafts

Hall of Fame game day gear to help you grill hotter, cheer louder, and tailgate longer. Bibbs loaded with pockets, gusseted pants so you can crouch without snuffing out your coals, and free swinging shirts tailor-made for Cornhole Tossin. Stay comfortable from preseason to playoffs in the toughest tailgate attire around, only at Duluth Trading Company. So many questions, in fact, that the ones from our premiums, subscribers, Dan and I, and you're going to meet Dan in person, really for the second time, but it's the first full official entree into the man that is behind the scenes for the most part, Dan Comer. He's going to join the show and ask all the questions. But the McShea report,

you know where to get it. Google it, if you don't know. It's the best way, fastest way to find it, click on it, subscribe. And if you become a premium subscriber, then you, you, you, you, you're one of the things that you get as part of a premium subscriber, including like there's a lot of other, like the special content that we do. But the premium subscribers, we got so many good questions. We decided to do not one,

Mench, two mailbags. Oh, one is out. One is out now. And the other one comes out tomorrow. We get so many questions about the coaching carousel and what's going on with the coaches and the information and rumors I'm hearing

and behind the scene stuff that we decided to do a second one on Friday. So there's one today and one on Friday. So there's one today and one on Friday. So those are the two things that you need to know. But today on the show, we got a lot of questions that came in, and we're going to get to as many of them as we can. Dan's going to try to keep a pace going. He's like, you know, he's like Lane Kiffin, Josh Heipel.

He likes tempo constructively. That's why he's here. Today's about showing appreciation. I do want to get to this. And we have our fan dual pick of the week. But before we get to, that. I do every once in a while you get we get a lot of messages a lot of complimentary ones a lot of comments a lot of questions we get them on social media

at McShey 13 on X it's you good mensch M-U-E-N-C-H for Steve on X that's his handle and then Instagram McShay 13 I get a lot of just dude sliding into my DMs you know but we got every once in a while I like to read one that's that's really like well thought out and very kind usually kind sometimes it's not sometimes it's more fun um but but josh sent us a message right sent us a sent me an iG message and it's jkg 20 okay underscore i believe he said i wanted to thank you for your for your show and the work y'all do i love college football but i don't quote unquote know it but because of you and mensch i watch the games differently now and love it he just sent this to me personally

I can't imagine the amount of work that goes into what you guys do. I'm certain you get messages like this all the time, and I know it sounds corny, but your show matters and the work you and mensch do is a service. It honestly makes my weeks better and weekends of watching college football more enjoyable. I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you, Josh. Yeah, thank you, Josh.

Very kind of you to take the time to write that. So, yeah, let's get into it. Before we get to all the questions and the answers that we hopefully have, Um, give me your fan dual pick of the week, Mitch. I'm on a role in my account. I kind of had a hiccup. Mr. October, self-proclaimed.

I always, I get on a run. You know, September's for the suckers. September's for guys, people, men and women, who, the people who set the lines are still figuring things out. Yeah. In October, they're settled in. That's when they start to win. Well, that's when I kill them.

and I did throw out the month. Isn't that counterintuitive? Shouldn't you be killing them in September? No, I feel like if you, I take a certain level of pride in it. Let's put it that way. Of course you do. But last weekend was a little bit of a hiccup.

Missouri game that could, how is that Missouri game a seven point spread? Anyway, I want to know your fan dual pick of the week. You're not going to be surprised what I'm going with here. I can't believe that Cincinnati is a nine and a half point road dog. I saw that line and I saw that line. I was shocked too. And that usually meant I always go back.

What does that mean? Tell me what that means. It means somebody knows something and I'm going with the somebody. So as much as it pains you to get your thumbs on the Fandual app at FD Sportsbook, right? Yeah. And you got to have the app. Like even if you're not a diehard, you know, a wager placer. It's just too easy.

It's so easy. It's the best. And there's so much information there. and like, just like, I found myself now sometimes I'm, I follow the game and I've got it up and I'm curious how the lines are moving. And then we get to the draft season and all the different prop bets. Like, it's amazing. But, but I saw that line and I immediate, here's how I like to do this whole thing. If I look at something and I'm immediately like, oh, I love Cincinnati in that.

I take a step back and I'm like, what are they trying to do? They're trying to rope me. but you're going to Cincinnati. So it's either rope-a-dope, and you're the punchline. Or you're just Jeff Lewis's guy, my brother-in-law, who now it's a weekly occurrence texting you about Cincinnati,

and he wrote this long thing about, you know, you might be getting a Christmas card from the Lewis family, and all you wrote back was love it. I bet. Well, I didn't know what, you know, I don't want to be weird about it. I better be getting a Christmas card from the Lewis family.

That's kind of how I feel about it. All right. So you're, go ahead. like the Cincinnati team. It's not just like some bit. Like I think they're, I think they're for real. Now I understand going to Utah road game, that's going to be, that's tough, but nine and a

half points. And what's the interesting part about this game and this is what the guys in the desert might know that I don't understand is that Devin Dampier, the quarterback for Utah, didn't play last week and is banged up. Yep. And he's questionable. And his backup ran all over

BYU's defense and a close loss at BYU. Do you know, what the back backups name is by the way? What? Bird ficklin. I'm not even kidding. It's B-Y-R-D-Fickland. It sounds...

Bird ficklin versus Bear Batchmire last week. Yeah. I mean, it sounds made up, but he was running all over the place on BYU. I still, look, that's... I've talked about Cincinnati's offense a lot. That Cincinnati defense is pretty damn good, too. Yeah.

I just feel like Cincinnati, I wouldn't be surprised at Cincinnati wins that game. Nine and a half seems high to me. Again, you're right, something stinks, but I'm taking the bait. I'm taking the bait because the tape tells me that that Cincinnati teams for real. And they're on a role. They've been on a roll. I love when my pick of the week is a prime time game.

And it's a reminder, Saturday night, our favorite show of the week, the chat's probably already fired up last week. The chat started at noon, always trade back. We're here on Saturday night. We're going to break into that Oklahoma Tennessee game. We're going to recap every other game. We'll do a reset once that game's over, and we'll go for an hour and a half, two hours,

whatever it takes to get through the whole thing. And it seems like every week there's a coaching change or something dramatic that's happening that we've got to address. So that's just like it's kind of like must-see TV, if you will. But we'll be there Saturday night. But the prime time game falls in line with, I literally looked at the whole board today.

The pick I like the most is Oklahoma plus three and a half. I think they're going to outright beat Tennessee. And I know it's a tough place to play. I know it's a Saturday night in the SEC. I know that Tennessee can score some points. I know about their run game. I know all those things. I think we've got a live dog on our hands.

I think we've got a wounded dog on our hands in Oklahoma. I think the Sooners are going to storm into Knoxville. And I think they're going to do it. John Mateer is not John Mateer pre the thumb injury. We all can admit that. But I think it's another week removed. I watched that defense for Tennessee, and they've got a good pass rush. And yes, I'm worried about the two freshman starters, right, for Oklahoma on the offensive line.

But I think Mateer can do enough mobility-wise. And those receivers, Satanga and Burks, that past defense is like 120th, somewhere in that range and past defense in the FBS. One of their corners is now injured, questionable to play. Colton Hood? Is it Colton Hood to know? Colton Hood, yeah. He's had a great season. Yeah. So I think that secondary is beat up enough

and there's enough questions with that past defense. I think Oklahoma could well. I think a lot of points in this game, but I think Oklahoma is the pick of the week for Fanduel. So that's that. With no further ado, let's bring in our good friend, our main man, Dan Comer, and we've got, I don't know, what he is.

I think mom talked to him. Here we go. Last time he snuck in by accident, he thought the show was over, and we forced him to keep it in there, and they couldn't edit it out, and Tucker's our guy. Tucker made sure that we embarrassed him just enough.

He's sitting at a picnic table down in Texas with his hair a mess. He had some shirt on, didn't feel good about his fit. It didn't feel good about his voice. So we went out and he had a party last night. He came coming in with a nice hangover today. He's got that raspy voice going. But this is Dan, everyone.

So Dan, introduce yourself and let's get to the questions. What's up, guys? I appreciate that introduction. I was out all night to get a deeper voice today. It worked. I'm going for it. I almost gotten a lot of trouble with that Texas stuff too. You are docks of me.

I wasn't supposed to be in Texas. But that's another story for another day. All right, let's start it off. First question. I love it. What non-QBs have a chance to be the top pick in the 2026 NFL draft? This one's from Ken. Hey, Ken.

I'll start this one, man. There's a bunch of offensive line. I think you have like five questions in a row. So I'll start this, but you piggyback. I look at the board now. It's interesting because, and I don't have it in front of me, but how many years have we gone with the quarterback is the number one overall pick, right? so it's highly unlikely.

But this year, and we'll get to the quarterbacks, I think, in a little bit. It's highly unlikely that a quarterback won't be the number one overall pick, but we also will get to like, we also have a bunch of underclassmen a quarterback that kind of comprise the top tier of the quarterback class with the Ty Simpsons and the Dante Mores and Lenora Sellers and Fernando Mendoza, who all could be back in school next year. So I'm looking at this board. And right now, just let's set the, let's set the table. Right now, Steve, if the draft order to be held tomorrow, the draft order is as follows.

I looked this up today. Saints would have the number one overall pick. I think Tyler Shuck, while I love him, I think if they probably would consider strongly a quarterback with that spot. And Spencer Rattler has played well, but I don't know well enough to pass on if there's a quarterback there that you'll love them. The Jets would have the number two pick, obvious quarterback need. The Titans would be number three. They just took their quarterback and have a lot of other needs. So that would be a team that if they were with the number one overall pick,

maybe it's one of these guys that I'm about to list. Then you get the Browns at four, who also have a second first round pick who could try to package and move up. Excuse me. Then the Miami Dolphins at five, who I think could go quarterback, even with Tuatungabaila there. Then the Giants at six and the Ravens at seven, I don't expect either team to be picking in the top five

the way things are playing out, but we'll see with the Giants, certainly not the Ravens. And then the Raiders would be at number eight if the draft were today. And don't forget the Rams also have two first-round picks and have a future quarterback need that they'd like to address, whether it's this year or 2026 or 27. The Raiders would be another team, obviously, that need a quarterback.

So of those teams, like the Saints maybe, Tennessee would not take a quarterback. The Giants would not take a quarterback of the top six teams that would be drafting today. Here's the list that I've gotten. You tell me where I'm wrong or if there's something different or you want to add somebody. Ruben Bain would be the first non-quarterback that I think would come off the bore. Edge Rush are from Miami. Then Caleb Downs Safety from Ohio State. How high do you take a safety is the big question.

Peter Woods, Interior defensive lineman from Clemson, I still still. have him up there has not dominated the way you'd like to, but the traits and the ability. And I just, I think he's going to be a top 10 pick. Jeremiah Love at running back. Not going to be the number one overall pick, but certainly is putting together a resume that deserves to be, you know, first half of the first round. Spencer Fanu, a Fano, sorry, from Utah, offensive tackle. And Jordan Tyson, wide receiver, Arizona State, Arvel Reese is the intriguing one.

Like, if you think he's going to be the next Micah Parsons, and I'm not there at all yet, I do see the things that he's doing as an edge rusher. And it started kind of with, I think it was Minnesota, and it's increased a little bit. I think you can see that versatility. But as an off-the-ball linebacker, like, even what Devin Lloyd's doing in Jacksonville,

you're not taking an off-ball linebacker, if that's where you project to play him primarily with the number one overall pick, let alone maybe the top. We go back, what was it, Isaiah Simmons was the last, what was it, 2019 or 2018, was the last top 10 off the ball linebacker? Teams just don't spend top 10 picks on off the ball linebackers,

no matter how talented they are. So that's going to be an interesting one there too. So yeah, I mean, I'm with you on all of that. I don't know, like some of the things that pop up as I'm going through this in my head is, I'm not sure Caleb Downs will be a top 10 pick. And I think he's a top five player in this draft. I just think when you look at safety,

he doesn't have elite size. I think he's going to run well, but I don't think he's not going to really turn heads with the workout in terms of the height, the height, weight, speed kind of the thing. So I love him. I think he's a top five player in the draft. There's no way he's going number one.

Jeremiah love, I absolutely love. No way he's going number one. So I agree with you there. I think Arvel Reese is in that, you know, I think he's fascinating, but I don't think there's any shot. And again, it's a player I love, but like, look at Jalen Walker last year, who I loved and went later than I expected him to go. Very similar, I think, that off the ball linebacker can rush off the edge, where I think people value now, but not that early. It comes down to, you know, the premium positions. I don't see a corner you're going to take there.

I don't see a wide receiver going to take there. I love Fano from Utah, the offensive tackle, and I think he could be a top, maybe a top. top five player, definitely a top 10 player? I don't see first overall. That's rich for me. And it comes down to the edge. So it's Ruben Bain out of Miami. Or does there a guy that starts to creep up? Is there a Keldrick Falk that people start to fall in love with from Auburn?

I think it's that the edge class is really good. I love David Bailey. I'm not sure he's got that frame that people are going to fall in love with at the first overall pick. Passis Howell is the same deal? Same thing. So it's really Bain Jr. or maybe Keldrick Falk, I think. Those are the two guys that you would be looking at.

I don't see any other, do you see a corner or a wide receiver that you can feel comfortable taking first overall? Like, no. No. There's no. No. No. Myrima Smith is next year. No. You have to be a leak.

Corner doesn't go that hot. Yeah. No. So I don't. What do you got? Oh, there we go. Sorry. Good start, guys.

That was a 10-minute answer. First question. We got 14 to get through. So we're making good time. Okay. Second question. I mean, why don't you get your mic figured out before you throw his own? I'm hearing that bass in your voice.

I'll tell you that right now. I pop out the mic like once a year. Y'all pop out the mics every week three times. So I don't know. The pacing. All right. Second question, this one's from Caleb. With the recent coach firings,

do you expect schools to move quickly to find replacements to prevent mass transfers of players? Also, are there any timeframes that schools have to follow before they can hire someone? There's no time frame that I'm aware of. It's not like, you know. I couldn't find anything of that either. I'll say this. I know that every program would love to be able to make their hire tomorrow. It would kind of stem the tide or plug the dam, if you will,

in terms of recruiting and the negativity that goes on. The uncertainty is no good for all those things. However, the guys that you want typically are the ones that are doing a great job somewhere else. I think just put, we need to table the, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer talk. And I do want to, like, I, and it kind of took on a life of its own. I saw a bunch of other places.

Like when I said that, that I think LSU will make an offer to Nick, I also, to Nick Saban, I also said, I said they'd make an offer to Nick that would make he and Miss Terry, at least like, huh, should we talk about this, hon? Should we get on the lake and, like, go, you know, but by no stretch, it's like 95% he's staying at ESPN, I still have friends and sources at ESPN. Like, he's thrilled with what he's doing.

I don't think they're bullshitting when they say that they're like, they love what they're doing and this time of their lives. They've accomplished more than what, you know, all those things. I don't think Nick is going to be the answer at LSU, but I still think the people at LSU would like, will make him an offer that he has to look at. And I also said, and I want to reiterate, I don't know that we'll ever know about the offer

or the conversation that has had or attempted to be had by folks at LSU. So with that aside, the only name I can come up with when you throw Nick and Urban out is Pat Fitzgerald. And specifically with like Penn State, and then maybe a couple other places, but not the SEC schools.

As a coach, he was wronged by the Big Ten, Northwestern, all of that. And clearly like he's just a damn good football coach. Other than that, I've got this list. And I went into much more detail and explanation on the premium the premium McShee report newsletter that just came out.

But I'll give you a list. It starts with Lane Kiffin. Right behind Lane Kiffin. And this is for every school or like the top schools that we're talking about the old miss. The LSUs, the Florida's, Penn State even, right?

But if you're just saying big picture, the top names are of existing head coaches in college, football. Lane Kiffin, Dan Lannning, Marcus Freeman. Then I would say Jeff Brom, Matt Campbell from Iowa State, Rhett Lashley, SMU,

and then I would put James Franklin. And I know my list is different than a lot of other people's list, but I'm just, I've always promised I'm going to be honest and transparent. That's about where I might put James Franklin. And it might be lower than the other three guys on this list, if I'm being honest as well. John Sumerall, Alex

Golish from South Florida, Bob Chesney. Remember name, Bob Chesney. Holy Cross, James Madison, I promise you he's a guy who is skyrocketing. Up, kind of up the, I always want to say up the boards for the NFL draft,

but like up the ladder, whatever. The carousel ladder, yeah. NFL guys to keep an eye on that I've talked to people and these are three NFL guys that are interesting. Joe Brady, okay? Obviously the OC for the Buffalo Bills. He had that magical year, 2019, with Joe Burrow and crazy talented LSU offense. Brian Johnson's the name I was told recently.

Keep an eye out for this. Reliable sources. Passing game coordinator at Washington. He's been, whether it's Utah, Florida, I think. He's been in a bunch of different college places and really well respected. Jesse Minter, who is the D.C. at Michigan with Harbaugh, now the D.C. with the Chargers with Harbaugh. then I want to go to coordinators, four coordinator names in college football right now to keep an eye out for. And I'm not saying any specific job.

I'm just saying all of them, people that are very interested in these guys. Number one on the list, Brian Hartline, offensive coordinator. We all know what he's recruiting and how big of a part of that Ohio State program. He has been for a long time. Can't imagine anywhere else. Can't imagine any of those. Will Stein. I agree.

Will Stein, offensive coordinator at Oregon. We've talked a lot about on the show. defensive coordinator De Anton Lynn, leadership, recruiting all the things he can do at USC. And then Bryant Haynes, your guy from Indiana. Yeah, so Caleb, thanks for the question. I'll try to answer that now because here's the deal. Like, do you expect any schools to move quickly? Like, let me ask you this.

Let me curveball you a little bit here. I said they want to, but you can't because you've got to wait for some of these guys. So I'll throw a curveball. All of these guys. Go ahead. I'll say this, just to put, to tie a bow on that. You've got to wait for almost all of them, right? And the other thing is you don't want to rust a decision.

Like, you can get Pat Fitzgerald right now. And I think Pat Fitzgerald is a great coach. And I think he should be considered for all of these jobs. I really think that. But if you're LSU and you hire Pat's Fitzgerald, are you going to get all the recruits that we're going to leave? I'm not sure that Pat's Fitzgerald is a big enough name or or reputation to keep those guys. I said Penn State is a possibility or maybe some of the other Penn State.

I'm not even sure Penn State, he's a big enough name to keep all their treats. And I think they're weighing that, yes. Yeah. So I think that's, keep that in mind that you can get him in quick, but I'm not sure he's going to keep all those names. And that should not be your number one concern. That was my second point. That should not be your number one concern.

Your number one concern should be not worrying about who's going to leave in this class. It should be who's the coach who's going to lead you into the next era of your program. I want to keep stressing that. Let me curveball you. Should Penn State call Brian Kelly and see what's up? Not Chip. You mean Brian? Yeah.

Hmm. Does this buyout prevent him from taking another job? I don't know that. No, it doesn't prevent. No, they want it. It just for him to take another job. Yeah, just jump to my mind. Would you do that?

It limits how much money, it limits how much money they have to pay him off of the, what, $54 million, I think it was? Yeah. How about that AD hiring Kelly and Jimbo, Jimbo Fisher. Yeah. Not a great track record. No. That's an interesting one. interesting right i'm very interested to see what kind of damage this this job did and to his there's been

some bad press about his relationship with players and about how standoff as he is so there it's he's not in a great light right now that's for sure yeah all right moving on dan what do you got next question three all right guys this one's from kevin thanks for producing some a1 content as a pin state fan i've been following all these major coach firings across college football and i'm curious how you think that kind of instability affects both recruiting and NFL draft prospects. Do you think players of programs going through those changes end up getting overlooked or hurt in the process? Go ahead, Steve. Well, you know, I'm not sure to get into this a little deeper.

The first thing that jumped to mind for me was when Alabama and, you know, when Nick Saban left Alabama, Caleb Downs left Alabama for Ohio State. So it could certainly alter the trajectory of some big-time NFL drafts. prospects. I'm not sure that that's what you're really talking about here. I don't think, I will say this about NFL scouts until the day I died, no one gets overlooked. It doesn't matter. It might be a tougher situation for you in terms of like if you're at Penn State right now, keeping your head up and, you know, trying to get some momentum in putting out, producing good tape

in terms of just the state that program's in right now. But no one gets overlooked by the NFL regardless of what's going on in the program because scouts are just too damn good at their jobs and they're constantly. looking to find guys. That's just not something that happens. So they're not going to get overlooked or hurt in the draft process. If you put out good tape and you interview well and you test well, that's going to be what happens. That's going to reflect on where you're taking in the NFL draft. Yeah, I think it's important to share. And maybe it's not obvious. Like when you're studying tape as a scout and evaluator, a general manager or a coach who gets in the process late,

you're not you're you want to know the is it third and four is it fourth and one but you're studying the individual player that's his his his his play in that game is the is the game in of itself for you as an evaluator it's the one-on-one matchups it's the the the shiftiness and the elusiveness the speed the power whatever position it is so well like these games may not matter for Penn State. And while Penn State is struggling and maybe you're not playing for your program anymore

because of what's happened. The motivation remains the same for guys like Nick Singleton and Catron Allen and Drew Shelton at offensive tackle and Zakeetton. DeNine Dennis Sutton. Wheatley at safety.

Deny Dennis Sutton at Edge. It all remains the same. Drew Aller obviously suffers the injury and he's out for the season. I go back. to like there there have been plenty of players who have been drafted very high coming off of seasons that sucked where expectations were not met. Even go back to just last year, Michigan.

I think they lost five games. It was disappointing season. Three of the top 13 picks, Mason Graham, Colston Loveland, Kenneth Grant were from Michigan. Yeah. Teteroa McMillan was the eighth overall pick. Arizona really sucked. I'm telling me what you really think. Now, the quarterback position is different.

All of these players' prospects at Penn State are going to be asked questions about what happened. Where was the leadership? After the Oregon loss, if things were going on externally, why didn't you guys, who were the leaders that stepped up? All those questions. And that factors in, but it doesn't factor in nearly as much as can the guy play in the NFL, talent-wise. Right.

Quarterback's a little different. I went back, man. There's a lot of instances you can find in quarterbacks that got drafted maybe too high or certainly a lot higher than they were expected to get drafted coming into the season because they had one great season. Yep. There's not a lot of quarterbacks that come into the draft and get drafted in the first round, two, maybe three, that had bad seasons where the program fell apart like this.

I had to go back. I was going back to like Jay Cutler at Vandy. There's just not many examples. Josh Rosen might be the best example. They know the expectations were a little bit higher, but there was kind of perspective on that. And they were eight or six and seven at UCLA that year. It was a disappointing year.

And he was still, what, the 10th overall pick? Yeah, right around there. Arizona Cardinals. So this one's, and again, you know my. evaluation on Drew Aller. I think he's a day three pick. I really do. And coming into the year, I thought he was a day two pick. And that was with the hope that he was going to show progression. So this year's going to be interesting to see with Drew Aller. I think a lot of people had clarity on who Drew Aller is, unfortunately. I had a great guy, great competitor, all those things.

But as the leader and things falling apart very quickly with Oregon and I think it was just one game past that before the injury. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how things play out for Allen. Dan? Let's keep it moving, Dan. This is okay. All right. This is a pretty good segue.

Slowing us down. No, I'm not. Segway to a quarterback question, if most or all of the quarterbacks, the top quarterbacks that are projected to be round one guys in this draft, go back to school. How does that affect the draft? Who is that from, Dan? Oh, that was from Luke. Luke, you got me thinking on this one, man.

We could have a... It's a very interesting question. It's a very interesting question. Because Ty Simpson, they're building something, they're rolling at Alabama. Two of his best friends on the team that they've talked about are going to be back next year because they're not eligible, including Ryan Williams.

Like, I don't know, man. So if he's back, and we all agree that Dante Moore is super talented and it would very easily be a high pick this year, but really needs, he's not ready. And the more scouts I talked to are like, yeah, he needs another year. And then you look beyond that, you've got... Hold on, though. I hear you about Dante Moore.

He's going in the top ten picks if he comes out, though, right? Yes, but I'm saying when it comes to January, you have to January 15th is the declaration date. So, like, as the season's winding down, or they're making a run in the playoff, and that gets extended if you are still in the college football playoff. You get like a one-week extension, I think it is based off- Just give them more, but yeah. The end of the season, the end of the season.

But when you're making those decisions, whenever it is, late December, early January, whenever that process is for Dante Moore, Ty Simpson, or Lenora Sellers, or for Fernando Mendoza or John Mateer. you can argue that just about all of them are going to get from more than just the coaching staff, if they're asking the committee, it won't be the committee, the advisory committee, because they'll have to say, yeah, probably first rounder. But there's going to be a lot of people,

if they're surrounding themselves with the right people, saying you could really benefit, forget where you get drafted, of going back to school for another year, okay? Yeah, no, I agree. My point in saying all of this is, What happens if Ty Simpson? Let's say maybe Fernando Mendoza, he's like 30 starts, right? Tracking for like close to 35 starts if the season plays out the way we think it's going to for Indiana and he stays healthy.

That's a number where it's like we've seen enough ball. Love to see another. I personally think Mendoza could really benefit from one more season. But you can understand that decision. With Metteer and his thumb injury and draft stock falling. and then Ty Simpson with like what eight starts at this point and with with Dante more but I don't know 15 starts something like that yeah 12 13 starts whatever it is and and and with Lenora sellers he'll have like 20 plus starts when it's all said and done this year but still developing we could see maybe three of those five guys three or four of those five guys returned so it It begs the question. I just talked to you.

The Saints may be at number one. If the draft order right now, here are the teams that could be drafting quarterback and where they'd be drafting if the draft were to be held next week. The Saints at number one, the Jets at number two, the Browns at number four, the dolphins may be at number five,

and then the Raiders at number eight, plus you have the Rams in there as a wild card to maybe try to trade up with those two first round picks. So you're talking about six teams right there to be drafting early, that need a quarterback. What if it's just Mendoza? What if those other four guys go back?

Then you're got Garrett Nussmeyer and then a massive drop-off. And Nussmire right now isn't even in my top 32. I guess that's my point. It's why it's such a fascinating question because you will see teams that are like, yes, it sucks that we had a bad season, but we're fine.

We're in the top five. We've got potentially, you know, crack at the first or second quarterback. And the first or second quarterback could have, or third quarterback could have landed you, Jaden Daniels or Drake May a couple of years ago. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's crazy. I'm looking at it from the extremes, okay? Let's look at the extremes right now. Tell me whether or not, if you think all of these guys come out, tell me, is it likely or probable or more likely than not that these guys go on the top 10 picks? Lenore Sellers. Dante Moore, Ty Simpson,

Fernando Mendoza. That's where the list ends. Those four guys. So that means four of the top ten picks would be quarterback. So it changes everything. It changes everything. Now the next question is. That's why this is no effect.

There's an amazing, amazing question. This one's the most intriguing, fascinating to me. Because, yeah. And the flip side, now you got four or five teams or six teams that I just talked about that really need a quarterback. and if four of those five guys we just mentioned go back to school, only one of them gets it.

So I will say this. The next part of the question is, does that inflate the other quarterbacks and do guys end up in the top 10? I think he asked if they're going to end up in the top 10 that they shouldn't have. I don't think that'll happen. I do think players will be inflated. Jackson Dart just went to a team that had to trade back into the 25th pick, was it? Right.

I could see some guys going late first, like a Nussmeyer. I see them getting inflated a little bit. And back might get it. inflated a little bit, but it's not going to move guys in the top 10. When you're not going in the first 40 picks of the drafted quarterback, you're thrown, you're considered a backup and prove us otherwise. And we'll address this in the third, fourth round range. Yeah, I guess we'll see.

But I think it will inflate someone and maybe a couple of guys, but it won't inflate them to the point where they're going to move. It is the question of the 2026 NFL draft. How many of these? guys who do not fit the current standard, the bar of, and Parcells was 30 starts, it's now like, I gave you the list of 19 guys in the NFL, they're considered solid, solid to great starters that had 36 starts, okay? So let's call that bar 36, because a lot of guys coming out now are in the 40s, 50s, and 60s in terms of NFL starts. So with armed with that recent

information and the history of quarterbacks busting and failing and disappointing with minimal numbers of starts, these guys are going to have to swim against that grain and come out and say, I'm ready regardless. And they'll be drafted high, but will they be ready? This is the biggest story of the 26th draft. No questions about it. The McShay Show is brought to you by Fandul. This college football season is delivering weekly showdowns you don't want to miss.

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Stay comfortable from preseason to playoffs in the toughest tailgate attire around, only at Duluth trading. All right, guys, we're at the Let Minge Cook part of this podcast. Let's go. Perfect. This one's from Jake. I felt like it was an injustice to leave Utah tackle Caleb Lomu

off the top 32 after how much Minge hyped him. early in the season. If you were just trying to get under his skin, Todd, mission accomplished, I'm sure. But I imagine as we get closer to April, a few diva wide receivers will fall and Lomu will rise. A couple of things here, Jake. He never says it's personal, but it feels personal.

It does feel personal when he does things like this, when he takes the players that I love and he moves him down the board, which he has, you know, he has a history of doing it. And usually I'm right and he's wrong. I think we can both agree with that, Todd. He said the questions for you. He didn't say I'm muted. What about the rickettsay shot for the diva wide receivers, by the way?

The wide receivers are like, dude, Jake, what's up, man? Why am I? I'll say this, okay? Jake's a minimum, 6-3-2-45, I promise. Yeah, he's definitely played guard in high school. He's one of you guys, yeah. He's one of you guys. So I, like you, I think, move Lomu down a little bit after the Texas Tech game.

And so now this gave me, this was great, Jake, because it gave me a chance to go back and watch where he's at now. And I'll say the Texas Tech tape wasn't as bad as I thought or remembered. being when I went back. There was three or four plays where Lomu, uncharacteristically, his hands weren't married to his feet. And he had a few bad reps in that game. But it wasn't a let's bury the tape or hope no one sees this type game either.

He was, he battled. Like Calvin Banks versus Georgia? Yes. It wasn't that bad. I'm telling you it wasn't that bad. And David Bailey's been embarrassing a lot of guys. And he got him a couple times. There's no question about that.

And then I start watching it again. I'm like, yeah, this is the guy I kind of remember. what was even more fascinating to me was I can't find anything on this. I'm just being honest about what I'm seeing on tape. I haven't seen anything about an injury. But Lomu, the way he moved before the biweek and the way he's moved since the biweek,

which is the past three games, is very different. You go to the combine, they talk about that you do a kickstep drill with the offensive tackles, and they're always yelling at him, give me that third step because it's that third step that really is important. That's why they do it, man. They know what they're doing. and Lomo was kind of dropping at that third step

where he's getting too vertical and kind of changing the angle to try to meet speed guys. If you watch the last through games, that's gone. I mean, he's back to what he was doing last year. I've struggled with him because I've really considered him taking him off the board, to be honest with you,

because he's just a second year starter and he's kind of still a pup. And I think that, you know, should we even be having him on the board at this point? going back and watching the tape, he's as good, if not better than Caden Proctor. I think he's probably, he's in the mix to be the second best

offensive tackle in this group. If he comes out, he is without question in my mind, a top 32 player in this draft. And it was kind of good to go back and get a feel for him again and realize, yeah, this dude's for real. All right, good. I'm glad we had this conversation. Go ahead. Keep Mench cooking. He's on fire.

All right. This one's from Randy. Who are some of the best interior a lineman you have on your board so far, Mitch? A lot of work to do here. I'm going to say that. I'm going to be up front about it. There's a lot of work to do here. There's also going to be a lot of we're kind of getting into this later on. It's going to change with guys who we see as offensive tackles that kick inside to play guard and some of these position fits. So I'm just going to rattle off some names. There's Connor Lou from Auburn. He's a third year starter at Auburn. Jake Slaughter,

again, a third year starter for Florida at center. I, I, Apani Laloulu from Oregon is a massive center. I think he's going to play guard when he gets to the NFL. He has played some guard, but he's playing center now. That's been his main position. Parker Breltsford from Alabama, who started at Washington, was a one-year starter there, and then followed DeBore to Alabama. I like him. I don't see him as an early, early guy. I think if he gets into day two, that would be great for him. I see him more of probably a fourth round in the fourth round range. And then guards Vega, Vega Yuwane from Penn State is a dude. I like him a lot.

I think he's probably going to be the first interior offensive lineman to go if he comes out. We'll see if he comes out. Caden Green from Missouri is playing offensive tackle this year, but he's played offensive guard in the past. Really like him. Another Oregon kid, Emmanuel Pregnon at offensive guard. And then Billy Shralth at Notre Dame is hurt right now. He was the one who went first.

viral for just, you know, knocking guys out of the club with his punch and really had that great game against USC. I think he's climbed boards this year, but he's got a knee injury. He's going to be out for a little while, so we'll see with that. Those are some names to keep an eye on. Again, that's going to change. And really other than Vega, Yawane, there's not a lot of guys that I'm super excited about on the interior right now. All right, keep it rolling for Mitch. Let's go, Dan. All right, Mitch, one more, line question. Thoughts on draft eligible O. Lineman from Iowa, Jones, Dunker, and Stevens. They have been killing it this season.

That one is from JJ. JJ, this was good for me, too, because I went back and road report on each one of these guys. I knew Logan Jones fairly well. Dunker, I was familiar with his game. Stevens, not so much. So I'll start with Dunker. I mean, this guy's look is awesome, by the way, McShay. I don't know if you've seen him.

Yeah, I actually watched some tape on them recently because I was hearing a lot of hype and I watched him. I didn't have him as a top 32, but there's, I like, yeah, he's not there. I don't think he's there. To get into it a little. Yeah, a little bit. Early in the season, he wasn't wearing gloves, which I love because he looked like a bare-knuckle boxer, and he kind of plays like that. He's got the gloves on now, but it was like just his game is he's a really athletic zone blocker, which is great for what Iowa does. Blocks to the echo of the whistle.

He's really tough, quick. Played guard. He started a game at guard earlier on his career. It'll be interesting to see. He's a guy that's a candidate to kick inside, I think, a little bit. based on the tape, moves really well, though. When you watch him in the other thing he does really well is he bends really well. When you get to the top of that set, he can really sink his hips and anchor.

There's some issues about falling off blocks. I think speed's going to give him some problems off the edge. And that offense at Iowa, you don't have to do a lot of, you know, true pass sets. I think he's got all the mobility to develop an ineffective pass blocker, but that's something that could take him some time. Logan Jones is the, he's the prototypical center, right? Smart, tough, a little undersized, quick, gets into position, walls guys off. I mean, and I kind of, you know, four-year starter, team captain, it's that prototypical profile for center, not to overlook, you know, or not to make it simple like that.

But that's really what he is. I see him as a day two guy that can develop into a starter. I really like it, but he's a center only. I don't, I don't imagine he's going to be able to play guard. that that's going to hurt him a little bit. And then Bo Stevens, I was not familiar with his game. And I think he's a guy that could get drafted on day three after watching him. I mean, he's got a strong punch.

He does a good job of passing off guys and past protection. He's got some, he's more of a mauler than you might think for Iowa. I think he's better fit for like a man gap scheme than the zone stuff that they do. And he does have some athletic limitations. But he's a big kid. He's a tough kid. And again, a strong punch. He's a guy I can see going day three.

All right. This one's in Palm. Does Todd have a take? I don't know. No, I let it. I talk too much. My daughter earlier tells me all the time. So I completely agree.

This one is a shit I put up with a behind the scene. So finally it gets to be brought to light. Go ahead, Dan. Minch is more pithy with his. Yeah, I try to be pithy. Yeah, that's right. Hey, Alexa, what does pithy mean is what I had to say the other night? I don't know.

Go ahead. All right. This one's from Brian. I clearly don't know what it means, but go ahead. No, you don't. I'm trying to teach you something, you know. All right, this one's from Brian. Could you describe what a typical college football Saturday is like for you and

Minch during the early and mid-afternoon games? Do you get together in person or via Zoom to watch or discuss games and or prospects? We don't. We never had a conversation about it, but I think we're both on the same page. I'd rather not know what you're seeing. We have a group text that we're all on. And a lot of that is like it's kind of all over the board. there's like, holy shit, do you see that play?

Or, you know, what's going on here? Or there'll be some, you know, some smart-ass stuff. Like, what's a catch anymore is a common one? No one knows what catches. Things like that. And then also, and then Tucker gets involved late. Like, hey, when are we, when are we jumping on? Is McShay you're going to be there on time?

All that's kind of stuff. Connor also, Connor does a good job of planting seeds in those conversations. You notice that? Yes. Like, all of a sudden, something he said a month ago is now turned into a, you know, a great idea for the show. He does a lot of like planting seeds from Connor. Right.

And one of those things, yeah, you'll look back two weeks later. I'm like, I shouldn't have just been like, I don't know, we'll get to it later. So there's a lot of that stuff going on. But mention I don't do a lot of back and forth purposely. Yeah. Can you imagine you saw me every Saturday? No, enough's enough. The kids are running around.

They typically have like games and sports and stuff. So like I'm balancing that and trying to get ready. sometimes like it bleeds in the noon games like I'm kind of back and forth typically like by one o'clock I'm locked in all day long um Marissa always has like a spread here but it's funny because I've got AJ and me my stepchildren and then aller and Tate my children like they're all very different like AJ's of the generation it's amazing he knows more stats and background and history and different things than I do on a lot of subjects but he knows

never, like, sits down and watches a three-hour game. Me is too busy. She's the, maybe the best athlete of, I mean, she's, like, unbelievably athletic. So she's got, like, seven sports going at all times. A lair's got a bunch of sports going on. And then she'll rip me out and I'll be in the trampoline, like, half times. You know, like, Lear, I come out in 15 minutes. She just keeps me going, right?

But typically the girls are, like, do some fun stuff. And Tate's kind of a throwback. Like, he'll sit down and watch a game, but, like, for an hour and a half. and then it's like, all right, let's get to the video games or let's get outside, you know. So that's kind of what goes on here. I'm kind of managing a little bit. And then Tate will try to sneak on. You've seen him a few times this year in the live show.

But that's how my Saturday goes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I like that we don't because it's just honest reactions. And when I agree with you, I like to be like, you know, have that honest reaction of like, I can't believe we saw this the same way or the disagreements to are they're natural. You know, you don't want to, if we scripted it out too much, and I'm not saying that's scripting it out, but if we talk too much, I feel like it might be a little more mechanical, and I don't want that. All right, keep it rolling, Dan.

All right. This one's from Tom. Every time I watch Texas Tech, I think their defense is enough to give any team trouble. If they get into the playoffs, I think they would be very dangerous. Do they have to win the league to get in? Could a two-loss season be enough? I don't think a two-loss season be enough. season is going to be enough. We'll see how things shake out, obviously, in the Big 12.

I just don't. I think they got to win it. I think they got to win it. I think they win it. I will say this, and I'll let you get to the offense. I know you've watched a little bit more recently, and we both love Wilhelm, and we'll see how that all plays out, right? ACL done for the year. Oh, it's done. It is official. Okay. All right. Barrymoren should be back this week. So it's kind of business as expected when the season started, and they'd, believe heavily in him and certainly are good enough on the offensive side to make this run that we expect that they need to. But I was just looking, Munch. They got dudes, man. And yeah, they paid for

a lot of them. But these hired guns are like David Bailey, we talk about as a draft prospect, first round pick. He is produced coming in for 10 and a half sacks. Romello height, five sacks. Defensive tackle, AJ Holmes, who's just a junior, three and a half sacks. Right. But between those, guys. It's like 19 sacks, right? Skyler Gil Howard, NIAU transfer. He's on draft. He's on the radar of NFL draft scouts to talk to. He's banged up right now. Great player, but he's awesome. He's two games, but it wasn't a break. And so he's expected to be back. If not this week, he'll be in the next week or two. But he's a leader, too, on top of being the player that he is.

Lee Hunter, one and a half sacks, impact player defensive tackle. He's on draft draft boards when I talked to scouts. Bryce Pollitt, the Mississippi State transfer, three leads the team with three interceptions he's a dude at cornerback jacob rodriguez he's in this four he is a transfer but it was after his after his freshman year at virginia he's he's a he's like the grandfather of the group there fifth year player four year player at texas team high 72 tackles also has a pair of picks and then cole uh col wiznuski he's not like the greatest you know free safety ball hawk in the world but uh but he's a potential day three guy talking to some scouts and And he's third on the team to tackle. So they've got guys who are going to be in the NFL on all three levels, is the point of what I'm saying. And it's been fun to watch them come together as a team, as a unit defensively.

And I think they're capable of doing some things in the college football playoff if they get there because of that defense. But we'll see how that plays out. Yeah, I think they went out. I think they'll get in because I think they'll win out. I will say this when they get to the college playoff, there are some things on offense and I don't know if they're as good as the numbers say they are.

I mean, the numbers are outrageous. I mean, they're averaging over 42 points per game. And there's missing some stuff on tape where I think their offensive lines good but not great and maybe against better defensive fronts that might get exposed. I think the receivers are good, not great. It'll be interesting to see. But David Bailey is as good as a college edge rusher as there is right now.

I mean, he is just slippery and great motor and all the guys. I'm with you. on that defense, man. I'm not going to add anything. I'm just going to echo it. That defense is for real. All right, Dan, keep it rolling. All right.

This one's from Minch, I think. Any thoughts on Pitt true freshman QB Mason Heinchel? He's been lights out since taking over. Their last three games are at home against Notre Dame at Georgia Tech and at home from Miami. That question came from two people. That's Anthony and Mike. Yeah, we just went into it on the last, was it the tape truths? I like this kid, man.

And he's playing like an 18 year old with house money. Like he's just loose and free and getting out there and slinging it. Young and dumb is a beautiful thing, isn't it? Yeah, man. It's great. He hasn't had that like that. Don't know what you don't know. Right.

He's just out there, you know, look at me. Look at what I can do. And it's been against a pretty bad competition. And now he's going to see some pretty good guys. But I think that pit team, I said it. And I think because of this kid, one of the biggest reasons because of this kid could sting one of these teams. I mean, that they could get a Georgia Tech, you know, like if Notre Dame's not careful, watch out. And Miami, again, Miami might be the most vulnerable because they have guys who can turn the ball over on defense.

They have some, they've got some guys in the return game. But this kid is, you know, again, playing like he just doesn't have a care in the world. And he's mobile enough. He does a great job of extending plays. He can make off platform throws. He's got enough armed talent to strike deep. They are a quick strike offense too, man. They don't need to, they're not a, we're going to grind it, grind it out, and we need, you know, to have eight first downs to get into the end zone.

They got a bunch of guys averaging better than 15 yards of catch. They got a running back. It's like, I think 148 per catch. I mean, this is a team that can move the ball quickly. So, and I don't think they're ever out of it. So that pick, that pit team is real interesting since they've made the quarterback change. Go ahead, Dan. All right, this one's from Michael.

Can you explain how you go about scouting a player who is either playing, possibly out of position or someone who is possibly getting less than ideal coaching. Man, we could do like a three, four hours seven. Yeah, this one is, this is a monster question. Each position. I'll say this and I'll let and I'll defer a lot to mensch because we let him cook when it comes the offensive line. There's more conversions along the offensive line than probably any other spot.

I mean, you see some like tight end wide receiver stuff where they wind up, you know, essentially being detached and doing a lot of the same. same thing. You see occasionally like a running back wide receiver type thing. Cornerback in safety is another one. Big picture. Offline backer and edge is becoming a thing. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then even like, yeah, and along the defensive line a little bit. With each position, there's there's kind of like benchmarks, heights and weights and arm lengths and speeds and different things and traits. Let's go just traits.

And if you don't meet a specific benchmark at a position you're playing in college, the first thing it comes to mind for an evaluator is, well, does that, do those traits fit somewhere else? Because this guy's a damn good football player. How can we get them on the field? And I think in the defensive side, you're starting to see like, it's more like UNLV old school amoeba defense stuff. Like the guys are playing all over the place and we don't have to put, you know,

pigeonhold someone to a specific spot. So it's a lot more common to see maneuvering inside of a defense now than probably ever before in the scouting process. And then the offensive line, Steve, you can take. But a lot of times that comes down to like body type frame, right tackle, left tackle. You know, is it more athletic versus powerful? Then maybe if they don't move well on an island, can we kick him inside to guard? He's such a good run blocker.

And we can kind of protect him inside there. And a center is a really athletic left tackle but doesn't have the length. So let's kick him into center. So there's a lot of things and typically comes down to like measurements and traits that dictate those sorts of things. 100%. I mean, that really what it. Also the experience of has he played on the left side, has he played on the right side, which you kind of hinted at. I think one name that really jumped out for us during the process last year was Gray's Abel out of North Dakota State. And he shows up at, at shows up the senior ball out to playing tackle and just absolutely killed it at guard and then starts taking snaps at center. And that's how long some of this takes to sort out.

Like some of these guys, you don't see them play inside. That's what's one of the great things about these All-Star games. Some guys go there and get an opportunity to show that, hey, I can play, if it's an undersized edge, I can play off the ball linebacker. In most cases, it's usually an offensive tackle who's going to kick inside to play a guard. And ideally, play center. If teams, there's only so many roster spots in the NFL, man. And if you got a guy that can play three positions can play left guard, right guard, and center, it's a big deal. So that's an opportunity that if you can take advantage of,

It helps you tremendously. I will say this. I have struggled with this about changing guys. And as it stands now, I don't think, I think I'm going to, on my board, I'm going to keep guys listed at the position that they play in college. Because I think even teams might look at a player and say, I think he's a guard. And another team might say he's an offensive tackle. So I'm going to try and keep the guys at, you know,

there might be some guys like Caden Green from Missouri who played guard earlier on, who I might keep at guard because he's got so much starting experience there. But it's a really tough thing to sort out. Now, getting into the poor coaching, there's a lot to sift through there because there's different ways to coach players. And, you know, it's a real gray area in terms of what poor coaching might be. It's a much tougher thing. And that's why you're really looking at experience and traits more than anything else.

All right. Voice crack, 14-year-old here. It's not as easy as you. you think when you sit there and make fun of us, right? Well, yeah, maybe not. Maybe I have a new perspective. All right, this is a question. The last three here, they're kind of colorful questions. This one's from Kevin, a question for both Todd and Steve. What's the draft prospect prediction from your career that you're most proud of, especially if it's a lesser-known player, but you saw something in them early that has always resonated with you? I appreciate the question because normally I'm

answering the opposite. I got to go back to like to Marcus Russell, and I should have been higher on on my homes coming out. And, like, you know, so, and early in my career, honestly, the three biggest were, were, like, on the negative side. Like, I, I didn't see it with Tebow, Claussen, and Brady Quinn.

And I had to fight tooth and nail with Kuiper on the two Notre Dame guys because he was- The closet thing was fun. That was fun. Some agent's bag. But, but honestly, like, I'm loving watching Jordan love right now. Mm-hmm.

Because I had to battle for that one. And Herbert's a great talent and a great player. But I kind of, I didn't see that there was a huge difference between the two. And right now, Jordan Love is tracking to like, he could legitimately with Green Bay make a Super Bowl run this year. And so, and some of the things I said about Herbert, well, it didn't, like any asshole off the street could see that this guy's unbelievably talented. But I kept like, winners win. And there's a certain, so like, and I've seen a change in him this year. a little bit more edge and like,

and I'm hopeful that they get, you know, some of the things straight. And he, like I like Justin or met with him and all that. But I really, I stood on the table for Jordan Love. There's some other guy, like Devante Adams,

loved that guy. Remember fighting with one of our good friends who's a scout and kind of had his Ladd McConkey, Ameca Obuka is another receiver. Jalen Petrie. I've had a good run, I feel like on the nickels, like Jalen Petrie, Brian Branch, Jordan Lewis, Dax Hill, Mike Sanristill, three of those guys from Michigan.

Upton Stout, have you seen him play so far this year for the 90s? He's been outrageous. He's been really good. That was my guy at the scene. By the way, Nick Iman Winori in Seattle has been outstanding as well. He has. That's your guy. Dallas Goddard, Isaiah likely, Jake Ferguson, some tight ends.

Nick Bolton, Demetrius, Knights doing some nice things with the Bengals. So those are some of the guys that I'm proud of, both like, several years. years back and also most recently. Dan, did you catch the one you're most proud of? And then he listed like a hit list of like 30 guys. Did he really I mean, don't throw your own. I don't remember, I don't remember Kevin

asking what your opinions were on my list. The thing about Todd, very humble, very humble. One guy that we're both high on that went much later than we expected was Grady Jarrett. And he ended up being a pretty damn good player. Yeah. We love Brady. We love, we all love Grady Jared and could not

You me and Kevin Whitel. One guy that I always hanged my hat on was Levyon Bell. I loved Levy on Bell coming out of Michigan State. It was high on him. You did. Like loved him. He's the one guy I pushed back a little bit on you where I feel like that was on me. Well, here's another one that is super interesting to me.

I, and it takes a second to explain this. I am really proud of my Baker Mayfield evaluation. And I gave him a late second. early first round grade going into that, his last season at Oklahoma. Late first, early second. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, late first, early second.

Thank you. And obviously, he goes first overall in that class. And it's a class that includes Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. I'm not saying that Baker Mayfield should have gone over those two guys. I'm just saying that going into that season, not a lot of people thought Baker Mayfield was even, you know, sniffing the first round.

Too short, not fast enough. This was not a guy that could play in the NFL. Most people in the league. going into his final year had third round on him. Yeah. And I was much higher on him. Now, I think there was an overreaction to it. And he shouldn't have gone first overall, but that's not the great I gave him.

I gave him lay first, early second. Or maybe he should have, and it just was in a shite situation. Fair enough. Fair enough. But I knew, I knew watching. Because I draft that cat number one overall in any draft. Listen, I knew, despite all those limitations, I knew what he was, who he was, and what he could do in the league. and I really believe that he could be a winner.

And he's taking kind of a different route from maybe a lot of other first-round picks, but look where he is now. And I mean, I just loved his game. I love his game. Yes, and you did, and I want to give you your flowers on that. I'm not saying if I knew what I know now about that he's the best quarterback in the league. I'm saying, if you guarantee me what Baker's become, I would take him over Josh Allen what he was at the time,

over Mahomes who went 10th, he was second quarterback behind Trubisky at the time. I'm saying. Yeah. So I just wanted to clarify that. All right, moving on. I love the Grady Jarrett call. As a Falcons fan, we got a lot of good runway out of Jarrett. One of the only good picks we've had in the last like 20 years.

Fifth round pick? Yeah, not bad. All right, Marty, and there's one more after this. And Todd, you mentioned Kuiper. If you're a draft geek, do you know the Kiper stories, the pumpkin pie, the eating pizza weird, just an interesting cat? Do you have any good Kiper stories that maybe we haven't heard before? And are you on good terms with him?

Well, let's start with the fun stuff. Everyone knew the pumpkin pie with him, right? But I was shocked when I got to know Mel and got to spend time with Mel. This guy's a crazy cat, man. And I kept trying to like, I'm like, I don't understand. Like, we only talk about pumpkin pie with Mel. That's just like, it's a fraction of his craziness. And I can say all this because I, like,

The Kipers are like extended family. I love, like I, I love Mel. Still to this day, love Mel. And I'll get to what's going on with Mel and I and all the things in a second. But I recognize early on there's just so much more here. And audiences were going to love this. So I leaned into it instead of like tiptoeing around it. And you got to understand.

So when Mel and I would go up to Bristol and he had like, you know, like six or eight, 10 days, like where he had to go to Bristol. He lives in the Kiper compound and he got to a point in his. his career where he told them I'm limited in terms of the number of times I'm going up there. And so when he would come up there, I was his, like, you know, when you have like a companion, like a companion, like a companion flying and you like a flight attendant, like picks them up from mom and dad, takes him through security and to make sure that there's, I was that. Okay.

I was that like throughout his career. he was my unaccompanied minor that's what the phrase I was coming out of he Mel was my unaccompaned minor not only at ESPN but also flying when we would fly to the draft he you know Kim would reach out and make sure that he was on

the same flight as me and we so that because watching him go through security and like everyone knows him he's talking but like he doesn't know it to take off the belt and and and my shoes come off Todd what are we doing here and Todd Todd Todd Todd

Okay, and so he was just like, follow me, like a 10-year-old. Like, Tate at 11 years old is much more equipped to travel. And he would come to Bristol. And meanwhile, I'm like second, third, fourth year at ESPN. I'm just learning my way. But Mel's been with him for 42 years now. So at that point, it was like 25, 30 years. And he still didn't know what buildings were what.

I'm like, Mel, how have you gotten around here? Well, you know, a producer would help me and they'd point me in the right direction. and someone would walk with me. So like the guy doesn't have his own ATM card. Okay? He gets like an allowance from Kim, cash. He, his phone, when he has a cell phone with him, if I want to reach Mel, I call the Kuyper's house.

And if that's not happening, I text Kim's phone. And Kim will hand the phone to Mel. That's a true story. When he comes up, Kim has an extra phone, I guess, on the same line, a cell phone. So when he leaves and goes like the most recent draft, the last draft I did with him is Kansas City. When he has a phone for five days in Kansas City, it's Kim's cell phone, but like a second one on that same number or something. It's wild. So I always leaned into it. Mel and I to answer your question are great. Mel and I talked a lot

during the time I was laid off. Mel and I talked about doing some stuff together. Mel wound up going back to ESPN. I think some of those conversations he and I I had and the potential discussions of working together. One of getting him an even better contract for a longer time, and I couldn't be more happy for him. He should finish where he started. He is the industry, okay? He is unique, quirky, but unbelievably kind man.

And his family is a wonderful family. And he just got his first grandchild, Lauren, his daughter, and her husband. They just had their, Alex, I believe it is, just had their first child. and so Mel is a grandfather for the first time just a year ago, probably 15, 16 months ago, okay? Absolute encyclopedia. Like, I don't have a negative thing to say about Mel. But I do get a lot of questions about why has Mel been on the show?

It's a year now. We just celebrated our first anniversary, October 22nd, right? And Mel has not been on the show. And if you notice, people probably haven't noticed, I have not done anything with Mel. and the answer is, and I'll just get into it. Why not? It's October, right, Mitch?

Here we go. It's past October 1st. So I'm free to talk at will. And I will not sit here and I will not bash people, individuals. You know I have a great relationship with a lot of people at ESPN still. I consider a lot of them like extended family. I love with many people. And I really like some of the executives there.

Burke Magnus has been wonderful to me and my family throughout and did to the very, very end. Seth Markman, I consider a good friend. Drew Gallagher, Red, like there's just so many great people there. Not as many as there used to be. But there's so many great people there. But what has gone on with Mel and I is some petty, petty shit. And it's been going on with Mel and I recently ever since I started this show. They absolutely refused to allow Mel and I to be on the air together on any platform.

Why? because they're rightfully worried that it will remind the audience of the obvious. They do not have anyone in house that can recreate the magic that Mel and I had. Listen, Field Nate Yates is a really nice guy and he's really good at his job. He's actually, by all accounts, damn good at fantasy football. And he's good analyst and he can host and he's unbelievably versatile. But if I was asked while at ESPN to, in addition to my role as college football analyst on the sidelines of games, the sideline analyst, and being the NFL draft guy, to all of a sudden become an expert in fantasy football, what would I be? Right.

And so while field is really good at a lot of things he does, in order to make compelling content with Mel, you must challenge Mel. In order to challenge, Mel, you must be on, you must be grounded in high level content and sources and years of perspective. And it needs to be your full-time gig, right? And it's just not. And field because of it is not any of those things. As a draft analyst, I'm saying. And we all know that. And you know who else does?

ESPN. And Daniel Jeremiah is on deck. And the writing's on the wall, right? I literally do not have a single thing negative to say about Daniel Jeremiah in terms of his job, what he does, how he does it, or him, more importantly, as a human being. He is like the fucking best. I love DJ, okay? The utmost respect.

But those two are not going to recreate what the Mel and Todd dynamic was. And it just, they just won't. And it took years of us being together in the relationship we had and me recognizing, I got to lean into some of this. And I got to needle him, but if I do, I better be prepared because that son of a gun will come at me. And he'll come at me with that encyclopedia that is his brain and he'll ruin me. And so that's how it all grew and developed. And it became fun, contentious at times, but fun.

And it was entertaining. So I don't want to say ESPN has no jealousy of what I'm doing. So they're not the jealous girlfriend. They're just the new, it's kind of the new girlfriend who's going to block. with her body the opportunity to let the public see the rapport that her boyfriend has with the ex. And it's jealous, petty shit rooted in insecurity. And you say, why? And I ask the same question because it's ESPN. It's the worldwide leader. And we're just the McShea show, right? But some of the richest people I know are also the pettiest and most insecure. You can give them all the private

jets and the yachts and the mansions in the world. But they just won't ever be happy or content. Other people's happiness and security makes them crazy because they can never replicate what they, what you have. Guess what? I've never been happier. I've found the love of my life,

my forever family, and it's in this show. And there's, and I was going to say, don't get carried away, Mitch. This doesn't have to be weird. I'm saying,

like, I'm happy. I don't need to be the richest. I don't need to be the biggest. I don't need to be on all the different platforms. don't need all that stuff. I'm finally happy. And I love doing what we're doing with the people we're doing it with. There's no looking back. And I think it shows in what we're doing, right? And there's no amount of Mike Greenberg's studios, cameras, distribution outlets, graphics,

replays, stats, or anything else that will replicate what Mel and I were. And they certainly won't replicate what you and I have become here, Steve, and what we're doing. And I think the bottom line is that they don't want to remind their audience of that fact. So there's your answer. And I know it was a rant, but people have been asking me time and time again about what's going on with Mel. Why isn't he on? Are you guys okay? Do you guys have a friendship still? Was there a falling out? None of that. There's your answer. I'm looking forward to the awful announcing article. I get you in trouble, man.

No, it's good. It's cool, man. I am, for what it's worth, partial to the Minch-Mixie dynamic. It's been very, very good to me. Mel, by the way, I always think it's funny because people think that Mel's this grumpy guy. And not only has he been super awesome to Todd, obviously that's a different relationship. Every time I've interacted with him, he has been nothing but nice to me.

And every time he is nothing but nice to everyone I've ever seen him interact with. Everyone. Everyone. It's who he is. You see this guy on TV and is famous for these, you know, kind of bombastic interactions. And the reality is he's one of the nicest caring, supportive people I've ever met. Like, he's just a great dude. I always think it's funny that people on, there are people who before any of this happened

thought that you guys had a bad relationship. And the reality was, I mean, it couldn't have been, it couldn't have been better. I mean, it was. We would fight. Don't get me wrong. We would fight and he would piss me off and get under my skin and I would, Lord knows, I would do the same. But also, you and I are where we are. You gave each other the freedom to do it. I mean, there's something to be said for that. And then the second that light would go off, he'd look at me, he'd give me that side eye, that like hawk look, you know. He looks like a, he looks like a Baltimore Raven, right? With those sunglasses or whatever he was wearing. And it would just be this like, you know? And, and, and, and, and, and, it. Like, we're good. And that would be it. So, yeah, that's that. Sorry, it was a rant, I know, and we're always going over.

But I think people were, I know people wanted to know what was going on because of all the, I've had like an outpouring of people. And it reached a crescendo around draft time when he didn't come on the show. Even I went on Dari Nook. It has a new show in Oklahoma. And Dari, we had a great conversation. They canceled the Dari and Mel show, right? that was on like the longest lasting like show on ESPN radio and they canceled it recently.

And so Dari has his own radio show now. And I went on recently. We were talking about Mateer in Oklahoma. And he was like, this is great. It just reminds me the days when you'd come on. Because I would come on, you know, occasionally here and there. But always the Saturday after the draft. And I would do it.

And my big thing is I want to give a Kentucky Derby winner. I was kind of one on a run too. Staying home. Stay in humble, Dan, stay in humble. But then he said on air, you know, we've got, I'm going to get you and Mel are going to come on the show. Would you be willing to come on? And I'm like, of course. I was like, but good luck with that because it ain't happening.

And then we got off air. And he's like, why? He's like, no, I'll get that done. That won't be a problem. I was like, I will never hear from you again about that outside of maybe you texting and be like, you're right. I couldn't make it happen. And it's sad because like, why shouldn't Mel and I be able to do? 15 minutes together and have some fun and it just be that and nothing more but it's and maybe it'll

change over time but but i but i promise it's been asked and i like when herbie comes on or steve cocklin or or like anyone anyone who we reach out to from esPN not talking about everyone from esPN it's just a text yeah man like what time let's let's figure it out and i did that with mel through kim in her cell phone and it was, uh, let me check. And I'm like, whoa. Yo, Mel, what's, yeah, let me check because I've been told no. And he's like, but I'm going to call. I'm going to tell him this is great, you know.

And he called back. He goes, not only is it a no, it is a hard no. That's where we are. But our, our fans and our, not fans, our, the people who are family of this show and people who support this show deserve to know because it's been, I don't like weird. I don't deal in weird. And I just, I wanted to share that.

And that seemed like the perfect time to do so. All right, Dan, what do we get left? Follow that up. Great, yeah, we have one last question. This one's from Andrew. Hey, Todd and Steve, I'm going to be a father for the first time in April. Do you have any advice or tips for a new dad? Anything is appreciated.

Keep up the good work. I'll give one. I'm going to pass on advice from a very, a person that you would know well, that I'm not going to share their name because, God forbid, someone takes it wrong. I remember getting this advice from a very good friend that works at ESPN. who's on air who's awesome in his job. He said, I just, like, someone gave me this advice and I passed this along to New Fathers before Tate was born.

There are going to be times at three, four in the morning when you literally like are insane and you're not of your right brain and you haven't slept for days and you're angry and you're frustrated and you're sad and you and all the emotions. That you might want to take your child and walk them across the street and put them on someone else's doorstep and be like, I can't do this. And it's okay.

And I remember thinking that that's weird. And then like fast forward two or three months later. And I was like, okay, I'm not the only one. There was like, there was security in that, in that advice. And so I passed that along. Like, it's going to get maddening. But like, get through the initial 12 months, 16 months. Get on that.

I forget what the name of the book is. My kids are now 9 and 11. And there's something about like 12 hours and 12 weeks or something like that. Like do it. And you might think you're being a prick and your child's screaming a little bit. But like get them sleeping. It's best for them, I think. But those are two things that it's hard, man.

It's hard early. But my gosh, when you get past that first like section and they start to sleep and like it is, it's something that you really can't explain. Yeah. I mean, you have your kid. I have four. My youngest just turned five. you know one of the things that i'll say is that it is the it is 100% the hardest thing you're

ever going to have to do it is and it is 100% for me at least the most rewarding thing i've ever done and well worth it and you know my youngest was born early and she had some developmental issues she wasn't walking when she was supposed to be walking she wasn't talking when she was supposed to be talking and now she's running around and we can't get her to stop talking so like that's how it goes right yeah and i think the thing that i take from that is that you know don't Don't sweat things that you can control, which is usually true about anything in life. There's nothing you can do about it, but help your kid. And we brought her to get help, and everything's going to work out.

And you just kind of try, you know, there's things you can't control and there's things you shouldn't control. And if you can identify them early, that's going to be even better for you. And there's another quote that I think of with this guy, Jordan Peterson said in an interview one time that you have kids for four years and then that's it. And I have a five-year-old. And man, is that true? And it rings true that they are only really little kids for.

four years and you want to hold them, change them, take care of them, be around, play with them as much as humanly possible, be present. Those first four years of their lives are super important and they will know. They will know how much time you spent with them. Don't beat yourself up when you get pulled away for work. Don't beat yourself up when you can't be with them. Those are the things you can't control. But when you do have the chances and the opportunity, try to be as, be present. Be present as possible. And that's not to say this. I love the little kid stage, man. It's tough. But those first four years. I love that. But I have, I have, my oldest is 24 now. I've been through pretty much all the, the phases of it. They're all awesome. They're all different. They all have different challenges,

and they're all difficult, but they're all awesome. I'm like, congratulations, Andrew. Like, you are, this is, it's going to be incredible. I'm really happy for you and for your family and, you know, good luck, but you'll get through it. It's a good way to wrap it up. Is that it, Dan? That's it, guys. How do we do on the clock? just horrible. Horribly. Horribly, like, so over. But it's okay.

I think it was nice to end with that, like, kind of parental advice. I'm going to take that to heart when I one day have a child as well. Yeah, which hopefully is in 15 years considering the lifestyle that you live right now. I might have, dude, I've spent a lot of time in Europe. I mean, I can't call it. There's no telling, to be honest with you. But I'll leave it at that. I'm not sure what's happening anymore.

I don't either, but I kind of like it. Well, Dan, we appreciate you being on. Thanks, Dan. Yeah. Hopefully everyone enjoys it. There's nothing more. We're already way over. Hopefully people enjoyed all this stuff from the football to the personal advice to me going on some sort of rant that I didn't even expect to go that far with. But I did. And that's usually how things go on this show.

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