The McShay Show - Scouting Caleb Downs: Why the Ohio State Safety Might Be the Best Player in the 2026 Draft

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve are back with a deep dive on Ohio State safety Caleb Downs, who Todd has ranked as his top player in the 2026 class. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (3:00) Training Camp Buzz and Expectations for Jaxson Dart(16:25) Summer Scouting Series: Evaluating Caleb Downs(20:08) Position Specific Rankings for Caleb Downs(33:20) Caleb Downs Tape Evaluation(44:20) Where Does Caleb Downs Rank in the 2026 Draft Class? On Thursday, we’ll be back with a tape breakdown of Notre Dame RB Jeremiyah Love. Be sure to subscribe to The McShay Report for full written scouting reports of every player discussed in the Summer Scouting Series. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ronnie Lott, Sean Taylor, Troy Paul Amaloo, Ed Reed. Those are the names, right, that come up when you start to have the conversation of best safeties in NFL history. So Ohio State's Caleb Downs, is he next up? We're going to deep dive into his tape today. Just 305 days until the NFL draft meant you good? Good, man. Yeah, you are, brother.

Hit it. I always got yelled at for thanking everyone, but thank you for being here. Thanks for joining us. It's a summer. There's a lot to do. swimming, there's hiking, there's biking, there's all sorts of fun stuff. But taking 30, 40, 50 minutes, however long I ramble today and Mence tries to keep me in check of your time to spend with us, we appreciate him. So Caleb Downs, we're going to get two in a

second, right? And I think it's important off the top to note, we just kind of, I don't want to say finished. We've gotten to the point where we feel like, all right, let's kind of put a pause on the quarterbacks. We've done a bunch of. of them. We started with Arch Manning in the limited catalog. We did Cade Klubnick, Lenora Sellers, both from the state of South Carolina. We did Drew Aller, John Mateer, Gerard Nussmeier. Garrett Nussmeier in the very beginning, yep, and so on and so forth. Oh, and Sam Levin, Arizona State. So we've gotten to a lot of the top quarterback prospects, guys that we think could be in 2026, guys that may be return and go, are in the 2027 NFL draft.

class, but we're now kind of going to just break off from the quarterbacks and hit a few different top prospects at positions. And it will allow us to kind of give a little appetizer, just a little sneak peek into maybe some of the other players of those positions. So honestly, from what I saw in college football last year and just studying a little bit of Caleb Downs, actually studying a lot of them, but unintentionally, with, which. with the eight or nine guys that were drafted from that Ohio State defense from a year ago, saw a lot of them, right? And to me, I think he might be the best prospect in the class,

but we're going to get to that in a minute. But that's the why behind it. And we're going to do this with Jeremiah Love at the running back position, get into some of the running backs later this week. And we'll kind of bounce around for the next few weeks as people are enjoying their late June, July, in the summer. And so we start really ramping things up in August, getting ready for the college football season. and the NFL season, sharing some of our draft rankings and that appropriately early mock draft.

I just wanted to get to this, Munch. Okay. You know how I am. I kind of bounce around sometimes, right? Yes. I've seen a few things on threads, on X, about Brian Daibel and Jackson Dart and how Brian's really encouraged. Granted, it's like, you know, mini camps.

and but like obviously getting to spend quality time knowing he's your quarterback not as a one of many quarterback and prospects at any position but like he's mine now he's in the building he's got our he's got our playbook you know like and and how encouraged she's been now coaches aren't going to come out and be like we made a mistake man shouldn't have trade it up got the wrong guy June. Probably will never say that, but especially in June after the April draft, April draft. But it seems like people are kind of reporting and getting, go ahead. You also hear things too, where you, you hear stories about guys talking about players looking back and saying, we knew we had something in minicamp. People are always like, you know,

they're overblowing it. But then you hear stories of GMs talking about players and saying, as soon as he got in the building, we had a feeling that we had made the right decision or we had made the wrong decision. If they felt like they made the wrong decision at this point, they're not going to come out and say we got the wrong guy, but they're not going to come out and endorse them either. So it got me thinking, when are we going to see Jackson Dart starting game? Okay. I'm like, I'm not normally this guy. I'm not normally this guy. And I'm a, you know, like, you're turning into this guy a little bit lately. And I like it. I'm here for it. Maybe a little. A little bit. I just, I guess because in the last few drafts, we're starting to see the

NIL, the transfer portal, guys coming out with 55, 57. Like, I wrote it down here because I constantly say, well, he had, you know, a lot of, a lot of starts in the 50s and the low 60. I wrote it down, finally. I've been promising that I would. Jaden Daniels, 55 starts at ASU and LSU. Okay. Bo Nix had the FBS record at the time, 61 starts, Auburn and Oregon.

Cam Ward from this last year's class, three different stops, incarnate word, right? Washington State and Miami for his final year, 57 starts. So they're all in that 57 to 61 start range. So when they come in the NFL and not only do they start right away, but they have a lot of success early on. Well, at least obviously in the cases of Daniels and Bow Nicks from two classes ago, and we'll see what Ward does. But we know Ward's going to be the week one starter.

My point is like, all right, so then. So where do we consider Jackson Dart? And we obviously know that they brought in Russell Wilson. The Giants did. We know that they've got James Winston as well. But where do we, I guess on one end of the spectrum, you're always like, you don't want to throw them in the fire too early. And then with Dart specifically during the draft talk,

we talked about Lane Kiffin's offense. And like it's a phenomenal, one of the best offensive. and he's one of the best offensive play callers in college football. He exploits college defenses and defensive backs and back sevens that maybe can't adjust to what he's doing. And as a result, it's not like Jackson Dart can't. It's Jackson Dart is fortunate to be in a situation where there's some predetermines and some, not a ton of concepts, but the concepts they run, they do with a lot of different shifts,

motions, alignments, all that stuff. So that's the long, that's kind of like an abridged. version of the conversation we had, like maybe Jackson Dart, with 38 starts, not 55, like Jaden Daniels, not 57, Cam Ward, not 61, Bo Nix, just going through the last couple classes, you know, maybe he'll be best off sitting for a year. Then I go back to Drake May. Drake May had 26 starts at UNC. Everyone said in the Patriots organization, we're going to send them for a year. We're going to do it the right way. there's no chance we're going to play him as a rookie.

You know, this is a long, we're rebuilding all the, all the things. And we've seen, this is like old as time. First round quarterbacks always wind up starting in year one. Almost, almost always. Patrick Mahomes is the last one I can think of off the top of my head. And I'm sure there's other examples between those, but like Patrick Mahomes is the last one. Like truly got a year to sit behind Alex Smith and develop.

And he needed it. And it was one of the best things that happened to his, career and he'll tell you that first and foremost. But Jackson Dart 38 starts and a system that does translate but gave him a lot of the cheat codes. Drake May with 26 starts and a system that didn't try. Like I remember that offense when we studied Drake May like a lot of RPO stuff, it just wasn't an offense that translated very well in the NFL.

Well, he started week six for the Patriots against Houston, October 13th. Okay. So, like, I look at that and I see the other guys in the 50s and 60s with starts. Now you get Drake May, maybe a better, more applicable comp with the college offense, fewer starts. But May's, I mean, Darts offense is more transferable to the NFL. He had 12 more starts in college than Drake May did. And you're in a division with Jaden Dan. Daniels, Dak Prescott, and Jalen Hertz.

And what happened with May was, yeah, he was throwing the fire with a shitty offense and the system that wasn't awesome and all of the things. And yeah, he got banged up and he left the game two different times, I believe, with head injuries. Okay. But we know what we got if we're New England. And more importantly, Drake May has, I think double digit starts to go back and study and self-assess. and learn from his mistakes and learn what he likes most and start to read defenses with him in that tape not with another quarterback in that tape and what are the tendencies he showed what are the you know like

there's a lot to pick up that's why everyone here in new england is so excited about the future Drake may well they didn't win a ton of games like his numbers weren't phenomenal but like we all saw it and most importantly he got to see it and now the teammates got to see it and they They looked to him for leadership going into year two. So we got the clock started on Drake May. It wasn't about winning necessarily last year. It was about getting the clock started a little bit earlier. Because we're in a division with Josh Allen.

And we're in a conference with Josh Allen and Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes, obviously. So if we're going to compete with the big dogs, we've got to get our young pup growing up fast. So I throw it to you, Mr. Mench. Like, what do you think, man? I would start by saying they are different situations. What New England had was Jacoby Brissette, and I'm taking Russell Wilson over Jacoby Preset every day of the week. I don't know if everyone feels that same.

And you can not love Russell Wilson. I get that. But Jacoby percent, I think, is a not as good of an option. So we'll go there, first of all. Then you had a rookie head coach in Gerard Mayo, who was trying to replace a legend, I think, was under a lot of pressure to make decisions. So I think there's a stronger argument.

that that dart won't start but i do see i see the path for it and i'll get you want the week right now i'll give you the date and that and i'll tell you the path well i reached out to via our main man tucker i've reached out to to fanduel as i always do they make fun of me because it's odds i always love these hypotheticals um and they were like yo calm the fuck down again no again Yeah, yes. How many times do we have to tell you to calm down? It's June and we don't have a number. And we're not ready to go to.

I think the line was we're not ready to go to market. But for the sake of this conversation, this is why I love Van Duel. Like our partnership with Fanduel, yes, they keep the lights on, but also like, could it be a better partner? Like, to get information like this, like, you know? Right. So, but they still, they appeased me. and appeased us on the show.

And they said seven and a half, game seven and a half. And there's a reason. Those guys are smart, man. I'll tell you why. Tell you what happens. Do you know what happens between week six and week seven? Week six, they have a Thursday night game. And then week seven is, if you're going to put a young quarterback in.

I love you, man. Oh, I looked. If you're going to put a quarterback in, you want a new quarterback in, you want that extra time to prepare if possible. It'd be great to do it after a buy. Their buy is a week 14, I believe, maybe it's 15, I think it's 14. It's late in the season. They don't have that mid-season buy where you could look at that and be like,

this is where you would make the change. So if it's not going to be there, you want the extra time, right? You've got Philadelphia at home Thursday, October 9th. Then you have you're at Denver the next week on Sunday afternoon. So here's the thing I'll say about this. Starting your rookie quarterback against that Denver defense on the the road, not ideal. But here's what you're looking at in the first six games.

You've got at Washington, at Dallas, you've got Kansas City coming, you've got the chargers coming, and then you're at New Orleans, and then you host the Eagles. I think, I mean, you could be one in five, two and four. You could be. Let's be optimistic and say you're three and three. Let's even say that. Let's say you're three and three. Even if you're three and three, though, right?

In that new defense, you're loaded pass rush, you know, you've just got Abdul Carter and those boys are flying around. You've got that awesome defensive line and you're losing games now, let's say 17 to 14. You're looking at that and you're saying, man, we're competitive right now and we are not that far away and we're only putting up 17 points a game. We're only putting up whatever amount of points game. What harm could it do really? We're losing by this much.

Then I see you going to the bullpen. Then I see you calling in Jackson Dart at that point. And I see, I don't think week seven is out of control. I do think it's a different situation than New England. I think there's a strong argument that Jackson Dart could sit the whole year. Yeah, I'm not. There's a definite, but there's a reason that number is seven and a half because if you're looking at it and you're antsy and you want to do it, you're thinking that's the time to do it right after that game.

And by the way, this is what Jackson Dart would be going into. It'd be at Denver in that defense, at Philadelphia, San Francisco. I mean, it's those first three games. you know, it could be real tough. There's a pretty brutal schedule. I mean, it's just schedule. I don't even think I heard Washington yet. Did I?

Washington is in the opener, so Jackson wouldn't have to deal with them. Yeah. Okay. All right. I don't know. I can see week seven, man. I could see week seven. Yeah.

And the other thing is, and you're also, if you're that Giants team, you're looking at that offense and you're saying, we have some weapons, man. I mean, we have, we have, we have, the league neighbors. It's not like when you were in New England and your best guy was maybe Kendrick Bourne coming off an injury or you were hoping that one of those two rookies that you drafted last year was going to step up and make, you know, their best receiver last year for New England was Hunter Henry. Yeah. They got Tracy and now Scadaboo in the back field. Yeah.

They've got some and their offensive line is definitely better than what New England had. I could see them. I should mention Tucker came back from Fandoul and said it would be heavily, the money you like heavily uh leaning on the over so it would probably be like i don't know minus minus 180 or 170 something like that to take the over because a lot of people would take the i would i would take that bet i would take the under just i mean i'm not getting the mortgage now like i'm getting some action yeah but i would i would definitely take that bet all right i just i don't know it was what about you what do you i mean how do you feel about that i would take the over, I would take the over.

Because I, but, but if it starts to climb higher than that, I don't, my guess when we started and I didn't look at the schedule is why you always, you know, you're like BASF. You don't make the product necessarily. You make the product better. I created this topic. You made the topic better. I was going to guess like nine, nine and nine. a half something like that without looking the schedule just like because i think russell wilson is going to

keep things interesting a little bit longer but we'll see we'll see all right caleb downs here we go back to back to let's go yeah back to our uh our roots or whatever the whatever you want to call um yeah all right let's just get into it so c Caleb down six foot six foot 205 445 estimated 40 time okay And again, we're covering Caleb Downs because he might be just the best player in this entire draft next year. Happens to be at the safety position where safety has never been the number one overall pick. And I mentioned some of the guys like the Sean Taylor's, the Ed Reed's going all the way back to Ronnie Lott, Tori Palomalu. Like those are kind of the names. But we wanted to get to Caleb Downs.

And at the end here, I'm going to throw out some names. you throw out some if you want to of kind of the top defensive backs in this upcoming class and uh we'll call it a day for now but um Caleb's interesting because of his just quickly like how many guys go from like one blue blood to another and and and Caleb started he was the first um it was a two-year starter he played over a thousand plus snaps in each of his two seasons the first at Alabama the second obviously at Ohio State. He was the first Alabama freshman. Think about all the players that Nick Saban has had and that program history, right?

He's the first Alabama freshman to lead the program in tackles. And a true freshman, not like a red shirt. He's been, you know, 107 tackles his first year, three and a half for loss, two interceptions, five PBIUs, force fumble, and a fumble recovery. Then he transfers to Ohio State. Obviously, the coaching change, he's there. One up third on the team in tackles. And I want to remind you, that's third on the team and tackles for a defense that had eight players drafted.

Eight. And he was third on the team of tackles, okay? Uninievous All-American, man. He was a unanimous All-American. I mean, the numbers, when you watch the tape, this guy's a difference maker. Yeah. And numbers are what the numbers are. And numbers in every area.

Seven and a half for loss, six pass breakups, two interceptions, one of them against Michigan rivalry game, the other against Texas in the college football playoff, semi-final. Also, just throw it in there. Oh, by the way, he averaged 16.3 yards from six punt returns, one of which he brought back to the house. So this guy does, like, and then like I'm always looking at. like what's the character, the makeup, the work ethic.

Like, he's like the 1%. Yeah, what about the family? His dad played, was NFL running back. His older brother is Josh Downs, the receiver for the Colts. His uncles, Dre Bligh. I mean, these aren't just guys that play in the league. These guys were played in the league for a while. These are dudes.

I mean, there's, it's like you're going down the boxes and it's check, check, check, check, check. Even though, even the side, tell me about this too, because it's tough to do this when you're watching tape. But when you're looking at his frame and it says 205, he carries his weight really well, man. He is a compact build. I mean, he's 205. If you had told me he was 215, I would have believed you.

He looks a little heavier. He doesn't move like a heavier safety, but he hits. He's got some thump and he's just, he looks like a heavier safety with the way he plays. All right, let's play my favorite game. Twice a week I get to play it in the summer with Mench. The position specific,

traits game. I'll remind everyone. I'm sure if you're if you're a loyal follower, you're like, shut up, McShay, we know. It's like playing golf. The lower the score, the better. But it's a one through five scale. One, excellent, two, good. Three, average, four, below average, five, marginal. You're not going to hear many fives and no force with Caleb downs. But let's rip through them. We got four position specific traits for defensive backs. And I'll let you go first and I'll counter with what my great would be. Complete surprise. Mention, I haven't talked a lick about any of this stuff.

All right. First one, instincts and recognition. What's your grade? 1.5. I want one. We'll get into that. Yes. Coverage.

I went 1.5 again. I did too. Ball skills. Two. You're right. I'm wrong. You went one, didn't you? 1.5.

And then I saw a few things in Oregon. We'll get to it. Yes, yes. Right? That was the game, yeah. I think I forgot I had put that grade in as I was like three quarters away done just so I had it. And I got to search. I'm actually going to make a note.

Hey, Dan, the McShay report comes out tomorrow. Subscribe. The position specific grade should be a tribe. Mensh is right. Oh, yeah. By the way, today we had a quarterback roundup kind of a like a, good in death man yeah he's in death yeah went a little bit yeah dan asked questions i answers answer you know um so it's actually kind of a cool piece if you're not subscribing just google the mitchshay

report you can subscribe there's a bunch of stuff you get for free there's some stuff you get to throw some scratch at um it's going to be worth it i i yeah i mean easy for me to say but i i believe in what we're doing and i think you will too when you get it when you check it out if you love this game and you love it. You know, if you're watching right now, you probably want to subscribe. It's the best way I can put it. We had the article come out today, kind of synopsis on all the quarterbacks we've done, kind of some of the updated grades as we go through and compare and contrast. And also, it just gave you a big sneak peek into what our process is from Steve and I every offseason, why we pick certain players, you know, what can change, what are the skill sets we look for,

all that stuff. So check that out there. Go ahead. this one was a good example too if you think that you're getting you could just watch the show and you're getting everything that's in the mcshay report this is a great example of one of those pieces that you're not there is stuff that's just in there that you know when you're sitting down you're writing and dan's asking you questions there's material that's in the mcshay report that you're not going to find on the mcshay show this isn't something that you know we're just you know he's trying to sell you something he's already given you that's just not the case thanks man um yeah and then tomorrow

this is kind of serving as a preview tomorrow morning when you get up your inbox it's right in your inbox it's so easy um tomorrow in your inbox will be the full breakdown of Caleb downs and god knows how many plays 50 plays it felt like i did um every specific play that stood out to me and kind of notes on it so there we go so instincts recognition i said one you said one point five coverage skill we agreed 1.5 ball skills you said two i said 1.5 you're right i'm at 2 with you run run support is the final one position specific grade what's your grade two okay i want 1.5 i like how you have to look down like you didn't know you you look down like what did i'm looking down i'm three steps ahead i'm three passes ahead here i'm trying to make sure i'm going the right place

All right, man, gave the backdrop, gave the grades. You get started. I came in in a defensive position because one of our listeners, when we were talking about Caleb Downs, Caleb Downs right after the draft and in that way too early mock dropped, that's way too early for a box safety. And I came into it thinking, you know what, maybe I'm going to humor this and say,

is this guy just a box safety because I love what he does in the box. We'll start there, right? I love when he plays close to the line of scrimmage. Why do I love it? Because I think he absolutely can erase tight end. I think he matches up so well with tight ends and coverage. He just his ability to stay in their back pocket, the way he plays the ball against them. I think when you look at how he was against Tyler, I mean, listen, he played against Tyler Warren and Terrence Ferguson and some other really good tight ends last year.

And he played really well. What a love to have seen the Colson-Lauvelin matchup, obviously Loveland didn't play in that game. But again, erase his tight ends. I think he's really good against the run close to the line of scrimmage. He gets stuck on blocks, yes. but he's aggressive, he's quick. He had seven and a half tackles for loss last year. So I get why people will look at him and say,

well, he's a box safety or if they want to play him, you know, play him up a little bit, which they did. I think Ohio State did that a fair amount last year to get their best players on the field and play their best schemes. But Caleb Downs is not just a box safety. This guy's an interchangeable dude who could play high.

Go back and look at the picky head against Mississippi State when he's a freshman at Alabama and he's reading the quarterback. he's getting off the hash, he's tracking the ball, and he's plucking the ball out of the air. This guy can cover over the top. He can do all of those things. And when you see him, Phil, when you see him run the alley,

when he's coming from a high safety spot, he gets downhill in a hurry. He is quick. He closes well. He breaks on the ball well. He is all of those things. This is a guy, I think they play anywhere. You would ask a safety to play.

Yeah. What year was Ed redrafted? I can find out right now for you. 2001? I didn't go back that far, but I was looking at the... All right. I think he has the best instincts and recognition skills of any defensive back I've evaluated since... 2002.

Okay. Now, it was early in my scouting career at that point. But I remember distinctly being like, this cat's different. And then you hear about like the Tom Brady and the, and the Peyton Manning stories of like they had him beat. There's no way. Like there's no way. And then like you have them like after the fact, oh, like, what did you see, man?

What did you see? Now, like, I'm not running away with this thing and being like he's the next Ed Reed. But I am saying like there's some things that stood out on tape about him. with his instincts and recognition. And is he there yet? No. But here's what jumped out to me.

There's a lot of defensive backs and safeties especially where they have their eyes on the quarterback or eyes in the backfield reading their keys, looking for the ball, breaking on the ball, who are great at it. Three things stood out. This mother foe, like he has got to do meticulous tape study. like offensive lineman pressure point on his finger type of stuff like running back running back

with hand here versus like whatever all the all the things i've sat with i've sat with chris spielman we've sat with brusky we've sat with guys who like literally will find the littlest thing and you would have never even thought to look for it but over 15 years in the NFL you learn to find one like there's got to be a tip it's like playing poker at the highest level this guy does a lot of that stuff. But that's not even what jumps out to me. It's not even what's most impressive. What jumped out to me and like,

I think what separates him from just about everyone I've studied in the last decade or so is the combination of these two things. And listen to me closer here. I'm not talking to you, you mentioned you don't have to listen closely. His ball location or ball reaction, right? Which is the second room. Remember, like, we talked to Brucey, we had a good conversation.

I go back to that because it's a conversation that you and I both had together. I've had plenty of others or plenty of other people. Teddy's like an all-timer, and you and I had that conversation together. We still reference it. Yeah. We still reference because you and I know what we're talking about, but in terms of that conversation. Where it was like you have two reeds as a linebacker or safety. The first one is your key, whether it's a guard pulling, whatever you're looking for in the snap of the ball.

And that's like a, okay? And that's going to get. you to kind of go drift one way, head in that direction, whatever your, whatever your responsibility is, it gets you that first step. The next key, the next read is the ball location or ball reaction, whatever, whatever's being coached, whatever terminology, phraseology. And that's like, so how many times do you watch guys on tape where it's, he reads his key, that first step is right, but then there's this like pause you know what i mean with caleb downs there's no pause in fact he gets started and and trusts his eyes so much that as he's going like he's he sees it and then

trusts his eyes that's the second part it's like it's one thing to read your key it's another the ball location and then it's a third thing to be like i am certain that's it and then to not be wrong. I counted one time in 87 key plays where this guy, Caleb Downs, actually, I don't want to say guessed, read wrong. There are a couple of, we'll get to coverage and some things over his head, all that stuff. I'm talking about like Reed Key ball location. He's got the, he's got the quickest trigger I've seen in a long time. I mean, he is. It's, it's, it's lightning quick. What is that? What is that? Everyone can read a key. And then the second part is ball location, locating the football,

which is a hard key to read with a bunch of 300 pound plus people going this way, that way. And your 280, 290 pound guys going this way. In these schemes where there's all these magic tricks. Look over here. Sweeps in the RPO's. Yes. Yeah.

Look at my right hand while I fuck you with my left hand. You know? It's true. It's true, though. But he's got those two. But then there's a third thing to absolutely explode with confidence and like no can no no doubt in your mind. No hesitation. And he plays violent and he plays aggressively. He's vicious. He's like an offense like he's like a terrorist to offenses. And so you combine all those things. And that's why, like, he just blows up more plays than, I remember what was, Jalen Petrie, right?

We talked about him, but he did, he did one thing. He hung around the edge and he came off the edge and he blew things up. This guy does that. But then he's seven yards off the line of scrimmage and that kind of like a reduced safety role. Like a robber kind of, yeah. Yeah, right? And then he'll be just. cheated up as a typical strong safety in the box, then he'll be too high safety look.

And wherever he is, if that plays in front of him, gets there faster than anyone we've seen in years, Munch, he does. I agree. I did ding him. I did ding him because I think it gets overaggressive at times, especially in the red zone. I saw a couple of things in the red zone where I was like, he's got to hold his water a little bit more there. He can't be so quick to step up.

you know, when he gets put in that situation, is the quarterback going to run here? I think he's a little too quick to play the quarterback. I would say that I saw that, I mean, definitely less than a handful of plays. But if we're talking about elite, elite, I was the only reason I gave him that point five. Because, again, the trigger is unbelievable.

It is the quickest trigger. I don't remember seeing anyone. We talk about, like, load to arrival with quarterbacks. We just spent a lot of time, like, three weeks on quarterbacks. the load to arrival from like the millisecond that a quarterback has made the decision, I'm going here, I'm going with it to when the ball arrives. His load to arrival is the safety is like different. Different.

Like you can watch, you'll watch him. If someone asks you can, you explain it to me, all I would do is put on five plays and then put on five plays of whatever other safety you wanted to look at. And you'll see it right away. It's something that's easier to see than to explain, really. I feel like that get like, he's not the big. this dude there are definitely plays i've got a handful of plays i'm not going to waste people's time go read the mcshay report out i got a really specific play breakdowns it shows all the positives

the negative there are some plays where he where he needs to take on and he can't his size shows up kind of inside and around the box even a couple times like bigger receiver but but like even there was what game was it was late in the season uh Tyler Tyler warren got him one time he got him one time on the I saw, but then it was a fourth or third and nine play. One play later on my breakdown. And he goes, he fights off the rub. That's exactly what you were talking about, though, by the way. I'm glad you brought up that play because it's a great example of the film prep.

He understood how Penn State was going to run that route combination. And he knew if he played over the top, he would still have enough time to get there, close, make the tackle, and put his fist up for fourth down. I mean, he was, it shows how he knew exactly how to play that route. combination in that situation. Yeah. There's a, I was going to look through this.

There's a nice combo of plays where he, where he, he makes a mistake and he gets stuck on a block on like a screen to the outside. I thought it was Notre Dame, but I'm looking through my, no, it was Texas.

It was Texas. Okay. 13.04 third quarter takes an inside angle working over the top of a wide receiver's block, taken out of the play, not like him, but definitely a coaching moment. That's what I put in my notes. Then, like six minutes later, of game clock later, 634 third quarter,

this time shows patience versus the screen. We're talking in-game, same quarter, learn from mistake. And instead of like flying in coming in too hot, he's patient with it, feels out what's coming, what's coming, where am I going to get? Where's the trap? Because with all those screens, there's a trap. They're trying to get you to walk into the trap door. And so he kind of patiently waited it out, came in and, you know, on balance and stayed

on block and made the tackle. I said in-game adjustment, exclamation. So it's little things like that with Caleb that I appreciate in this game. Coverage I wanted to get to. The ball skills, let's come back. The reason I changed the two, you added two, he didn't have a ton of interception opportunities throughout the vast majority of the season. I here's what I do love about his ball skills.

I think he takes great angles. I think he is really good body control. And a lot like Jaday Barron, when the balls like that last, it's kind of like the point of no return or like, you know, it's like the telling moment. Balls come like two feet away. You're coming in. Can you control your body so to not interfere and get penalized?

enough, but still reach around or get your hand where it needs to go and how quickly can you do it? I think he's like his hand quickness, for lack of a better phrase, like his reaction skills, hand eye coordination, and then the body control to kind of work around guys, really good. I love that about his ball skills. And that's part of the angles you take, undercutting routes, getting your hand up at the last second, not making contact. Those are all confidence when the ball's in the air. I thought he was great.

I think he's great when he's coming forward playing the ball. And we'll get to coverage in a second, but there's a lot of similarities. However, I don't know about his actual hands catching the ball. One interception against Texas was right in his body. Really good play to get there. But like I'm talking about like the point where leather hits hand, leather hits your skin. one was the body catch and then the other interception was Michigan that was a tough one man that was it was low yeah it was behind and low yeah yeah okay so those are the two so one of

fastball but still tough it was a tough that was just to me it was just hand-eye coordination reaction skills um then he had three against oregon though in the college football playoff great plays to get into that spot, all PbUs, no pass interferences, all three would have been tough catches. But all three hit his hand slash hands, you know? And so that's when you said a two. Go ahead. I went back and watched the two in Alabama last year, too. And I thought, though, I mentioned the one from Mississippi State, really good job of tracking and plucking. And the other one was real impressive where he jumped in front of the receiver and ripped it out. I can't remember which game it is.

But he jumped in front of the receiver and he ripped it out. Um, those were two, I was, he can, I don't have any doubts about him being able to make plays. I think you're going to see what you saw this, this past year, which is he's going to make some awesome plays. And then you're like, wow, I'm surprised he didn't get that one. There's, there's, he's going to let a few get away, I think. I don't think he has elite hands. But the reason that we know that, and we can get into this with the coverage, I think the reason we know that is he's always around the ball.

And he can, like, if he, if he's in the area and you're going to try and target him, he's got a real good. good chance of getting his hands on the ball and giving himself a chance to make a play. And then go back to the punt, that dude's dangerous in space. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So once he gets the ball on his hands, now you have a whole other. Yeah, you have a whole other issue for you. Coverage.

I'll try to give you a quick synopsis on this. In my opinion, this is what I saw. Gotcha. I think he's great at a few things in coverage. I think he's great near the line. of scrimmage matching up man to man i think he's great versus tight ends he's got a very impressive combination of physicality quickness in the short area i think against receivers he's got great closing burst you saw that the or on one of the organ drops that you're talking about yes you saw

the first recover right 100 percent not a lot of guys even get there to where we can be picking apart the fact that he didn't make the pick right um So I love that. Like when he deciphers, plants, drives, when he's, any time, he's in coverage with his eyes forward, the actions in front of him. And he can drive forward on the football with the great instincts that he has and that great, like initial burst and then closing burst. He's outstanding.

Tight ends in coverage. I even slots in like underneath trail, those sorts of things. I think he's really, really good. I actually like him in a too high look. Who was it against? Was it Nebraska maybe? Yeah, I think it was Nebraska. He did play high a fair amount in that game.

Yeah, he was in a he was in a too high look. He was on the left hash, but it turned out, I don't know if it was like quarter's match or what, but he wound up in man to man on a slot receiver, bigger slot receiver. Yes. And he just leveraged the hell out of him, you know, to the point where the ball was thrown there. And the wide receiver had nowhere to go couldn't get through him. And it was like, shouldn't that be passing her fears? Like, no, you just got worked over.

Yeah, he's got the right to his cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So I liked a lot of that. So I like him underneath planting, driving coming forward. I love him when he's reacting to the receiver, when he's when he's studying just the receiver. Because there's in zone, a lot of times it's eyes in the quarterback, backfield, trying to, you know, react to that.

I love him, receive a reaction. What I don't love is when he needs to play in a lot of, and a good amount of space. And it may be in single high. It may be in too high. It may be where he's in that like robber, tweener, linebacker safety thing. But if there's, when he's in pure zone and there's,

a lot of like crossers and guys coming in and out of his zone. The guy who I'm saying has the best instincts in the world, there's some times where he looks a little like it's the computers on overload and you can hear the engine buzzing. Sometimes I saw and then when the ball goes over his head or he's got to turn and run. That's where he's got to, I want to see him get better. That, that those, like big in space, having to cover a lot of, but with a lot of stuff going on is area one.

I'm looking for improvement in 2025. Area and we're nitpicking, but we all, everyone's going to get better at everything they do every day, right? And then the other thing is for as awesome as he is and all the things we talked about with instincts, reaction, ball location, terrorist against the run, all that stuff. My man misses a lot of tackles. Yeah, he does miss a fair amount of tackles. He dies, torpedo, lower body, trip up the, you know, swipe the feet, all that stuff. Those are the two things I want to see improve this year.

I will say I will counter a little bit on the coverage. I actually don't have an issue with him too high or in zone. I actually think he does. I am a little bit more worried about him matching up against explosive slot receivers. I think he runs really well in a straight line. If you can get him to open up a little bit, that's going to be a little tough. Yeah, that's going to be a little tougher for him in the NFL, I think. I totally agree with you about the mistackles.

Sometimes it's the angle. Sometimes it's him leaving his feet too early. He's got to bring his hips a little bit better. That's kind of you live and die with that a little bit with the guy who's so explosive. Listen, safety's mistackles. There's holes in zone coverages. I'm with you, man. I just think you are right.

You're going to nitpick when you're talking about a guy who could be, you know, always look at maybe the best prospect in this class, that's what you're going to do. Is he, is he that special because he is a safety? So now you're going to get into where are the weaknesses, where are the flaws, and you're going to start talking about this a little bit. Yeah. I wanted to while we're here, because we're not going to get, I mean, we're in June. July's coming up.

I got to grill the man on the fourth. We've got parties all over the North Shore and South Shore, right? I mean, it's time to have some fun. So I don't think we're going to be diving into the deep. defensive backs in the 2026 class, nor should we. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to say one thing. Yes.

There is zero way Caleb Downs goes first overall. We can agree on that, right? Yes, I agree. Okay. And it has nothing to do with him as a player. Exactly. Okay. It feels like the market for defensive backs has softened.

And not only is it softened, but safeties were never really taking that early. Anyways, someone's going to get a great safety. It's actually a good point on defensive backs. They've got crazy, right? The last two years, they've fallen a little bit more. Yeah, think about it. You had Hunter go, obviously. And the next guy to go last year was Johnny Barron at 20.

Yeah, but there was every bit as much about wide receiver as it was Corner. And we all know that. Right. So he, Jodd A Barron was 20. So if you're looking at the first year before, Coyne Mitchell was 21 or 20? 22, man. 22, yeah. And damn good defensive backs.

Damn good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I had Barron in the top 10. I stand on that. Yeah. So I love Caleb Downs. I don't think there's any shot he goes first overall.

No. All right. Who else he got? These are names I got. Just a quick glimpse. I'm not going to do breakdowns or anything like that. Names and stuff I've seen, stuff I've talked to scouts about. Jermad McCoy from Tennessee, this one's interesting, cornerback.

I'm just doing defensive backs. Just guys, we're getting ready for the season. People are starting to gear up from afar. Let's just throw out some names and it can live on YouTube. Hey, by the way, YouTube, thanks for watching. We appreciate it. Mench is better. The Mench, go ahead.

Hit the subscribe button when you go over to YouTube. Hit the follow button when you're at Spotify. He's at McShay 13 for all socials. I'm at you good Mench, M-U-E-N-C-H. And again, you're not getting the same stuff on the McShea report that you're getting on the McShea show. So consider subscribing. And I'm on threads now at McShay 13.

Treads. I still have, yeah. Let's go. All right, man. It's your July project. Jamad McCoy from Tennessee. Oregon State transfer, awesome year last year for Tennessee.

Four interceptions last season, that aggressive man-to-man coverage that kind of came in the college football playoff against Ohio State. However, he's got all the tools, right? Yeah. I think a lot of people in the league consider him kind of like, I don't know, odds on favorite or whatever coming in the year.

like he's the guy you got to kind of look out for. But he suffered a torn ACL during a January training session or something. So like, yeah, that sucks. That's tough, man. It sucks. So we have to see, you know, obviously we're pulling for McCoy and rebounding, but don't know what that's going to look like this season. So beyond Germant McCoy, Avion Terrell from Clemson.

Terrell. Got to get stronger, but he's kind of a crafty, smart corner movement skills, speed to be an early round draft pick, okay? And that Clemson defense is going to be something. We're going to get to that next week, maybe, the next week or two, Clemson fans. Those are my guys, man. Those are my guys. I got some Clemson gear in the house, too.

You're some stuff sent. I knew it. We're going to a Clemson game next fall. You're a double Asian, man. That's why you've been giving me such a hard time. That's why I've been baiting you, bud. A.J. Harris is an interesting one from Penn State. 6-1-184.

Former five-star recruit went to Georgia, transferred. This, this deep, Penn State's loaded again, Munch. And the DB group is going to be, it's projected to be outstanding. He could be the best of the bunch. You didn't have a ton of stats, like five past breakups, one pick. but was all, you know, all Big Ten honors and all that. So I think AJ Harris is a name to get to know. Damani Jackson from Alabama, 6-1 physical 195-pound corner.

He's a name to watch for. Jair Hill from Michigan tabbed in like the next. Michigan's always got a DB. Rod Moore, Michigan. Rod Moore's last year. Yeah, Malik Muhammad from Texas is on the list. By the way, the National Blesto list coming out. names that kind of keep an eye on, right?

Malik Muhammad from Texas, as I said, six foot, 185, really instinctive, aware, kind of going to step up by thinking that Jaday Barron role this year. We'll see how that works for him. And then Dylan Thineman from Oregon, the safety. I think you're saying that right. And Camari Ramsey from USC, both safety. So that's about, I don't know, seven, eight, nine. You know, I felt it was hot going into last year.

And I just, I know he had a down year, but he's an interesting player because of the frame. And that's, uh, Ticario Davis, who's at Arizona. And now he's going to Washington. And I feel like no one's talking about him anymore. He's a teradactyl. He is six foot four. And I mean, he is long. And with that frame, you get some tightness.

And I get it. But he could be a guy that people aren't, you know, maybe forgotten about a little bit and has a strong year and can move up. I'm not saying he's one of the top corners. in this class right now. It's a name to keep in mind. To keep in mind. All right. This is fun.

It's awesome. Finally got to talk about her guy, get away from the quarterbacks for a minute. I love the quarterbacks, man. That was great. It was, don't get me wrong.

But, you know, this is, this feels a little bit, feels good to get away from for a second. And we're not talking to offensive guards yet, but that's all, it's fine. I get it.

What's on your mind? What's on your mind? I was just going to see if you were going to wind up going on a five minute rant so I was giving you space. No, I mean, we've all heard it already. We know, we've heard it. I don't know if we mentioned Mendoza, by the way,

is one of the guys who watched too. We've done it. It's been a pretty good deep dive. There's a lot of people angry about their quarterbacks not getting discussed, by the way. I don't know if you've seen that. Tell us, Steve. Well, there's a lot of where's, I don't know if I shouldn't say,

but where's Carson Beck. They want to know where Carson Beck is. He's out of Miami. Yeah. The kid from Baylor they want to hear about. There's, you know, everyone's quarterback's the best. I did sneak in a quarterback today. Jackson Dart even on today.

We're talking about defensive facts. Yeah. Let's get out of here before we wear out our welcome. We appreciate everyone. We'll see you on Thursday. Jeremiah Love, Notre Dame. Can't wait. Running back class.

Can't possibly stack up with last year and 25 backs taken. But we'll talk about it all on Thursday. See you guys. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for King's. in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-78-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

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