The McShay Show - Senior Bowl, Day 2: Mike Green vs. Josh Conerly Jr., Small Schools Show Out, and Is Jack Bech the next Puka Nacua?

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! It’s Day 2 of Senior Bowl week, and the guys break down everything they saw at practice. They start with the trenches, including the 1-on-1 between Mike Green and Josh Conerly Jr. (01:31). After, they discuss the quarterbacks (40:13), and who stood out from the skill position groups (57:00). Mike Green vs. Josh Conerly Jr. (03:17) Shemar Stewart, Edge, Texas A&M (09:16) Oluwafemi Oladejo, Edge, UCLA (24:24) Marcus Mbow, OT, Purdue (28:50) Jackson Slater, IOL, Sacramento State (31:20) Kyle Kennard, Edge, South Carolina (36:58) Jaxson Dart, QB, Ole Miss (41:28) Jalen Milroe, QB, Alabama (49:16) Jack Bech, WR, TCU (57:00) Elijah Arroyo, TE, Miami (65:55) The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Dan Comer, T Cruz, Conor Nevins, Tucker Tashjian and Mark Panik Additional Production Support: Tony Perry Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELD-HEL It's Wednesday at the Senior Bowl and only 85 days left until the NFL draft. Look who I got here. Mench, you good? I'm great, man. All right.

Play me that sweet music DJ. You're always complaining, Munch. You're always complaining that I want to talk quarterbacks all the time. We will. We're going to get to the quarterbacks, okay? And there was some stuff that we've got to get into, like really intriguing stuff from the second day of practice here at the senior bowl. But I mentioned it in the open.

And today is the most physical day. We're talking full pads. On Tuesday, the first day of practice, it's a lot of installs. Kind of, you know, half speed a lot of the time. There are some physical aspects of it. Thursday's a lot of special teams. Thursday's a lot of, you know, making sure the body's ready for Saturday. Wednesday's the day at the Senior Bowl.

And quite honestly, it was all about the trenches today. Even I, the quarterback offensive skill guy who loves to go watch the one-on-ones and the seven-on-sevons. Even I had to go down. We're on the field. But right there, it's like an Oklahoma drill, right? You've got all these scouts. I'm standing next to Mike Tomlin. We got John Lynch down there.

John Schneider, the GM of the Seahawks. And every NFL scout, offensive line coaches, defensive line coaches, circling around, right? And it's these one-on-ones. It's the best part of the week, and honest to God, it might be the best part of the entire scouting process, is to be standing on the field in Mobile, Alabama, watching these first rounders, second rounders.

Alabama's, Georgia's of the world, going against Sacramento State and West Alabama, like, it's just, it's the best part of the process. And so today was that day, and hopefully you'll get, you can just feel the energy here. So much fun to watch. Let's start with this, okay? Of all the stuff, there were two plays that stood out to me that kind of, I don't know, embodied the day. We'll start with the first one. There was one play in the morning session.

We've got Mike Green from Marshall, right? He's a defensive end, edge rusher, phenomenal season, and he's going to be a first-round draft pit. He's going up against Josh Connerly, my guy. Well, in this play, my guy embarrassed me, and it didn't go well. Mike Green literally got under his pads and plowed him. It was awesome to watch. And Mike Green kind of let everyone know who the real first-rounder was there.

Who's the dude? And just watching that play, and there was a lot of other plays, and they actually went head-to-head the next play, and Connerley held his own. But watching that play, how can you not watch it and say, okay, and I do this all the time. And Bill Polly and I used to do the practices together for ESPN. At the end of the week of the Senior Bowl,

you can always be like, this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy, and maybe this guy and that guy. they're clearly first round picks because they rose to the top and you can see it. You thought coming in they might be. Some of them were cemented already. Some of them were kind of on the fringe, but you can always see the guys that just elevate during the week.

And I thought Mike Green, it wasn't just that play. We'll get into all of it. It wasn't just that play, but it was kind of his, they call it Heisman moment during the season. It was his like first round moment. watching that play. His senior bowl moment. Yeah, his senior bowl,

I'm a first rounder moment. Yeah, guys who come from schools like Marshall, who I know is a division one, it's an FBS school, it's a good program, but it's not one of the power for schools. Those are the guys who really give themselves a chance because they're coming in here,

like, I watch the kid from Marshall. He's pretty good, but we'll see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Oregon kid. Because I watch the Oregon kid's tape, and I love the Oregon kid. So when he gets a rep like that, it sticks out in your mind of,

oh, he's just not a guy who's putting up big numbers at Marshall. He's a guy who can win against the best. I will say this. I'm not overly worried about Josh Connolly after he gets beat on one snap. These things happen. I've seen guys, listen, we've seen guys here before, offensive linemen, get beat in ways that, you know, I'm sure that they weren't proud of and they don't want to show that tape ever again. But it happens.

And it happens. And it happens when you don't play with sound technique. And he just, you know, Connolly got in a bad position. He wasn't ready for the power. I think he was anticipating another move. And that's what happens. And also, you know, something I noticed being on the field today, being next to these guys. getting a feel for their body types.

I think Connerly is still growing into that body. I think he's going to get 10 or 15 pounds. He's definitely going to get stronger. I think he's a guy that hasn't quite peaked. We look at a guy like North Carolina State's Anthony Belton, who's 345 pounds. He has 34 and 5-eaths-inch arms. He looks like when you call a central casting and say,

can you send over an NFL off at the tackle, that's the dude. So Connerley's not quite worried about it. Why? Because I've seen the tape. And I've seen guys have bad plays here before. It's not the end of the world. He's still a great player. But on the flip side, great news from Mike Green.

He had more on the line coming from the program that he comes from it. The energy, like, I don't know if we're going to capture it. Well, here's the thing. Ringer and Spotify did us the biggest blessing of all time. They said, all right, you clowns are going down to Mobile, Alabama. We're going to send your trusted producer, right? Dan Comer down with us. But also ship, like, two of the greatest.

Yeah, I don't know how that is. cameramen and people who've been around the game and around all of sports, and Nick and Jake, and they're capturing all this stuff for it. But just to give you an example, I'm sure on our video podcast you're watching on YouTube, you're probably have already seen it. If you're watching on Spotify,

you've probably already seen the play. Quick anecdote for you. You'll see it probably throughout the Twitterverse and X and social media. The play we're talking about, Mike Green, under the pads, standing Connerly up and just jacking him to the, ground. It was the most physically dominant play that we've seen here in two days of practice, okay? Well, I'm the asshole who caught the second play, who said, oh, maybe I should bring my phone out and get a video of this. This is starting to heat up. And I got the second

play where, like, Connerley kind of won the rep. But the battle was over. And, you know, it just, it wasn't, it didn't have, so I put that one on. I posted that on X. And so you guys could see that play that was really kind of useless. But that was, that's what, So that's why they sent Nick and Jake the professionals for us. And so you guys get to see the actual play. So that's just a little back. Listen, the energy was different today. Oh, my gosh.

And you anticipated it. They're here for a day. They've kind of got their feet wet a little bit. They're ready to rip coming out on Wednesday. It's a big day. A lot of teams, a lot of scouts are going to start leaving tomorrow afternoon. This is the day you really had to come out and shine. And when you got to those one-on-ones, that's where it started to elevate.

I mean, that rep from Green got people fired off. The next thing you know, Donovan as a Ruku from Boston College at the edge is going against Marcus Bo from Purdue and they're grabbing face masks. Everyone's getting chippy. Like, you just, the energy was up and you could just, I mean, it was getting the juices flowing. I think even you've got all these ex players who are now like scouts or have been around the game for a while. You can see him like kind of like bowing up a little bit like, this is this is pretty good. It was awesome. So like right from the jump, right from those one-on-ones, man.

It was great. All right. The other play. That was in the morning practice, right? That was with the national team in the morning. In the afternoon, we get about a half hour in between, and they bus in the second group, the American group, which quite honestly it has, it's more of the southeastern schools.

Right. And as you would expect, there's more talent in the trenches. Also a bigger crowd. The locals come out. So you get more ooze and awes, and that also started to build a little bit. So all in all, great day. It was. It was.

But the second play came from that second practice. practice, right? And it was, I want to say it was a team or an inside run. And it was Shamar Stewart, who I think we told you, and if you follow McShay 13 on X, you'll see, mention I did a, like, I'm the worst videographer camera guy in the world. But I had to take it, but we were watching Shamar Stewart. Number four for Texas A&M, number 14 here, if you're watching some of the clips here and just fell in love with his play. One of those guys, he's not like the elite first step and not elite speed, but the more you watch him and the hustle and when it's 31 to 7 and he's giving all, like, the best

effort you've seen as if the game's tied 7.7 and it's the SEC championship game and the power he has. We fell in love with them. I know I did at least. I don't want to speak for you. What about the Logan Brown rep you saw last night? Anyway, we'll get to all of this. But Shamar Stewart is a player that just coming into this process,

we're excited to see. He has this moment in the second practice going up against Emery Jones from LSU, okay? Really good, really talented offensive lineman. There were some talk coming into the season. Maybe he's the first round. You got Will Campbell, the left tackle for LSU, he's going to be a first round,

or a lot of people are talking about him. Maybe he's the first offensive lineman off the board. But Emery Jones, very less. likely a day two pick. Let's just put it that way. Very talented player and has been through a lot of wars. You don't play at LSU for a few years without being, going through a lot of wars. Shmar Stewart, just for some perspective on it, like, talk about central casting. 6.5, 281 pounds, 34.5 inch arm length, which is outstanding as an edge defender. Emery Jones, though, 6.4.5, 312 pounds. So he's got 19, 20,000.

21 pound advantage, right? And, no, 19, 20, 31 pounds, my math. 31 pound advantage and similar arms just slightly longer, 34 and 3 quarters of an inch arm. They go head to head on this initial rep. And Shamar Stewart beats him badly. Like, just works him over. And I don't know if we have the clip or not,

but he just works him over. and makes quick, the way I flashed back in my head, he made quick work of them, right? And when he was done, it was almost the post, the post rep that was more impactful or just as impactful. I use follow language on this, but I can't repeat word for word what he said because, you know, there might be kids in the car, right?

But it basically stood and look, it was, I mean, it takes kuyans, it takes onions, as I like to say, but he stood there after winning this rep and basically announced to every scout, he looked up. You got to remember, like, when you're on the field and you look up to the right side, okay? And you see where the press box is. I'm sure, like Daniel Jeremiah and those guys, NFL network are in there,

calling, you know, calling practice. Right below and next to them, you've got all the NFL teams, a lot of them get sweets in there. And so the ravens will be sitting here, the Bengals will be there, charges will be there. And then all the scouts, typically, if they're not one of the executives up in the, up in the press box, they're all on that side of the field. And they all sit in clumps with each team.

He stands up after this play and starts beating his chest and basically like, I'm effing him. And like, uh-uh, you know, and just goes on for like, it felt like 30 seconds. It was probably three or four. And kind of announced it like, I'm the guy. Like, you saw Mike Green earlier. I heard about it, not counterly on his ass. but I'm the guy. And it was, I don't know, like, call it what you want,

but the confidence he has, but that moment, I just, I thought it was awesome to watch. Oh, it was great. I mean, he's been dominant at times. And again, that's the guy who's coming in. They're all in different positions coming in. He's a guy who's so solidifying himself as an early first round pick, which is cool to see.

Emery Jones, listen, I've got back on my offensive line, and that's what I'm going to do. I'm not an Emery Jones guy. To be clear, I thought he had a chance to move into the first round with a strong season this year that just didn't come together. didn't play all that well. I was a little overwhelmed with yesterday's practice. I thought he had some downs as well as some ups today.

But what I loved about him was that he kept competing. After that, the very next rep after that, he got Stewart and Stewart ended up on the ground. It wasn't as dominant of the play by any stretch, but Stewart ended up the ground. And Jones stood over him and showed a little bit of fight. And then later on at the end of practice

there was some one-on-ones where he went against the Texas Edge, Baron Sorrell, who's been like one of the under-the-radar guys, solid. He's had a really good week. I thought Sorrel got him on the first rep. Offense and defense started arguing. No, he won. No, he won. Let's run it back. They end up doing three reps. But I love that Jones was fighting. I love that he was in the battle, that he wasn't a head down after some maybe, you know, not having a great start to the week. And then you look at his tools. He's got, you know, good length. You just mentioned all the numbers.

He's a toolsy kid. He's a kid who's competing. When I look at that in his offensive line coach, I'm like, you know, maybe he's not the first round guy. we thought he was coming in the season. But he's a guy I can work with. He's a guy we could bring in and maybe he turns into a starter and then ends up being that kid at the pro level that we thought he was going to be his last year in college. Yeah, so before we move on, and I want to get to, let's just go through the practices in the trenches.

Because, again, that was the biggest story of today. It wasn't the only story, but it was the biggest story. Just want to give a little quick perspective. I think this offensive tackle group, we don't have a lot of the top guys that are here. Conner Lee, to me, is the most talented of the office. offensive tackles that's here, right? Armand Membou from Missouri is here, but apparently, and we'll try to get some reporting on it,

but apparently he's been sick and he hasn't played. I think he might have caught a cold from all the first round mock drafts that put him there. His tape is awesome. So anyway, but he hasn't been performing. So Josh Connerly from Oregon is probably the top offensive tackle here, and is in the mix with other guys that you'll hear throughout the process. like Will Campbell, who mentioned I have already mentioned, from LSU, Kelvin Banks from Texas, right?

And also Josh Simmons from Ohio State who got injured pretty early in the season, but his tape for like the first five, six games of the year might have been the best offensive tackle tape that anyone put out there. So those are kind of the guys in the offensive tackle mix in the first round. Edge guys, what's intriguing is, and nothing is, I'm saying, changing, but more solidifying and getting perspective on it. I think we all agree Abdul Carter from Penn State's the number one overall player in this draft. And if you don't think that, if you've got Travis Hunter, the wide receiver cornerback from Colorado,

then you've got him at least as the number one edge and probably at number two. So that's Abdul Carter. After that, there's going to be a lot of debate. Personally, I think Mikel Williams from Georgia, again, not here, is right there. But then I think, like, to me, Shamar Stewart and Mike Green could be next up. Wow. Three and, like, I personally right now have Schmar Stewart as number three edge in this class, and then I would go with Mike Green number four ahead of like a Jalen Walker from Georgia,

who's kind of an off-the-ball. He's not Micah Parsons, but he's kind of a notch below, but similar path. He's a hybrid type of guy. So just want to give a little perspective on how talented these guys are and potentially three top 25 picks that we just mentioned in green, Stuart, and Connerley. So now I want to get to the trenches. Let's go back to the morning practice. You take us to class and go through some of your notes. Who stood out to you? You can go offensive line, defensive line, wherever you want to go,

but just take us through it. Listen, I hate to do it, but I'm going to do it. Gray's able from North. I don't hate to do it. I love to do it. Yeah. You're a small school offensive lineman. like trade, like that's your history. How could you not be fired up to come out here and promote small school offensive linemen, showing out on the biggest stage you could possibly have in pass. He's finally getting it. And he's, yes.

So Grey's Abel's having, he just had another great day. He's playing guard. He's playing center. Kids so competitive. He's athletic. I got a chance to stand next to him today. I know his arms are short. This dude is put together.

I'm six, five. You know, I've got a pretty good feel. You're lean now, though. Nah, I wouldn't say that. Stevie boy. I wouldn't say that. He's in fighting shape. But I will say, I got to stay, I got to stay next to him.

This kid's put together. He's strong. And then when you see the quickness and the athletic off of the ball, you know, a kid that I don't know we've talked about is a Florida State defensive tackle, farmer. Yeah. He's got some length. I was watching him during warm-ups getting off the ball. He's got a quick first step for his size.

He's flashed. He's just shy of 6'3, 314 pounds. You mentioned the length. Holy shit. I don't think I knew this. Yeah. 35 and a quarter inch arms? Yeah.

That's like a whole. elite. He's a guy I haven't watched a lot of his tape. I'm excited to go back and watch his tape. And another guy like that, and we, you know, we both, again, you get down on the field today and you're standing next to these guys and is in the field. And this has happened a couple times this week where I go to say something or you go to say something. I'm like, that was, you know, Toledo, Darius Alex. Yes. Good looking kid. I mean, he's got the length. He moves well. He comes off. He means a defensive tackle. I mean, I told Todd he was 300 pounds today. And he was like, oh, I thought he was like a 280 edge. It's 304. I looked it up after 6.3.5.304, 34-inch arm length. But he carries himself like 285. I would have guessed 285, just looking at him. I would have guessed.

And great power off the edge when he was rushing during one-on-ones. You know, those are three guys that I think really stood out. Again, Zabel's becoming one of the stories for me here. Maybe a guy who's potentially playing himself into the top 100. We'll see how it goes at the combine, all of those discussions that go on. But maybe this is an opportunity for us to talk about what a top 100 player, a third round grade versus the second round grade, something like that, about what those guys might look like, what we expect from them. Yeah, the defensive lineman in that first, I mean, the offensive line was great.

And I'll get to a couple of those guys. But there were three defensive linemen. One of them was Alexander that really stood out. guys that we're not talking about in the first round. But when you start to talk about the depth of this group, and like we've actually had a chance. We're going to do a really, really cool series. We're working on it now,

sitting down and talking to general managers in the NFL. We've talked to Nick Casario. We've talked to Eric DeCosta, the Texans and the Ravens, respectively, and we're going to continue to kind of build it out, and we'll keep you informed on how we're going to roll it all out for you. But not about, like, who'd you like at practice. and what are you going to attack in the offseason?

Who are you going to draft? It's more about like how you build and that team build and what you're looking for. So, but when I look at teams and the successful teams in the league, we've talked about this recently, find your quarterback and build a damn good defense because your quarterback, unlike any other player

in any other sport maybe, but certainly in football, can be the eraser. He can make up for all. all these different sins on the offensive side of the ball. So if we have a great defense with the guy who can make up for all those weaknesses and sins on the offensive side of the ball, we got a chance. That's why you see every year the Ravens drafting defensive line. The Chiefs, since they got Patrick Mahomes loading up on defensive players.

You talk about the Eagles. Are you kidding me? All the defensive guys, Georgia guys specifically. So when I start to see all these players and the depth at defensive tackle and at edge, it's exciting. And I know it's exciting for these general managers who are here. Darius Alexander, who you mentioned, winning with power and guys who can play versatile spots, right? Who can play a three, who can play a five, who can power rush off the edge. Alexander's a guy to watch.

And when we start to talk about top 100 picks somewhere in day two, I think Alexander's really making a case for himself. Then you get the all-name team. Ola Wafemi, Ola Dejo, nailed it from UCLA, and then Donovan Azaruku, not as difficult, from Boston College. Ola Dejo, I just, first of all, the thing that jumped out most is his energy.

Like, he's the one yelling for, give me another rep. He's the one advocating for the defensive line guys. He's the one getting everyone riled up. You start to see the leadership and the dogs that are he, and like he jumps out to me, 99 from UCLA. Also love the fact that this is a, this is a guy who was a Mike linebacker, right, for three years? A Mike.

Moved him to edge, and now you look at him, and I'll pull up his numbers here for him. Now you look at him and you're like, he's found his home. He's a versatile player who can drop into coverage every once in a while. He's six, two and a half, 261 pounds, 34, 33 and a half inch arm, Mike, like not elite measurables, but a guy who was playing Mike that just fits better on the edge.

And I thought he did some great things, like long, strong, not elite athleticism. Like, he's not, like, elite in terms of, like, inside out and quick agility. But he's got great speed, like straight line speed. When he gets a beat on a guy, he's going to track you down. And he just, he loves ball. Just to back you up a little bit on that. I was watching them do bag work in the beginning.

It was just the defensive lineman working together. And it was the last rep, and they were making a big deal about it being the last rep. And there was going to be a race between these two guys. And who do they call up? Marshall's Mike Green and then Olodejia. And there's other guys on that roster that you could call up, but they wanted Oladija. And I wrote down on my notes, it just feels like the staff really likes him, the coaching staff. And it feels like players are gravitating.

I was seeing the exact same thing about you as a guy who was kind of, you know, alpha might be an overused term. But that's kind of what we're saying. Azaruku is another one too. He's another dog. Did you hear him at the end of 101s? Yes. No, sir. He was like last rap and he's pointing at someone else.

No, sir, no sir. We got 20 seconds. Officer gentlemen, you know, like he's, but he, he, on, between those lines, he's an absolute maniac. But what I loved watching him do athletically, his dip in rip, dude. Like, the ability is an edge rush. I always talk about it.

And I don't, if you're not watching on video, follow me around here. But, like, edge rushers, there's that point of no return. It's that moment of truth when you get to the top of the arc and you've got to get around. And you've got to have, whether it's a swipe, whether it's a club, a swim usually doesn't work that effectively anymore. But the dip and rip to get through. And the bend, I always talk about torso flexibility. That was Bruske's big thing when we talked to him. Spent a lot of time looking at linebackers and defensive line and edge rushers.

the ability to work through with that torque while bending in flexibility and to dip around. Like you just picture as you're going around the corner, you've got to dip underneath to get underneath the hands and the pads of the offensive lineman, but to still have enough of that bend in your body to work and run that tight arc around. His was awesome today. Yeah. That dip and rip coming around was so good. He's quick.

He's got active hands. that bend, I get it. He's undersized. He's not going to be a first round pick. But when you're looking for depth and edge rushers early in careers and guys who can develop into starters and play in a rotation, I think Azaruku has done nothing but help his cause this week. I mean, he's long for his frame. He's like 6-2-248, but he's got good length. 33 and a half inch arms. For a guy that's small, that's unusual, but it's good length for an edge. And just to reiterate the point about that, Ben, Why do you think when you go to the combine, you see the towels in the middle of those huge, you know, rings? And you see them filming individual work today.

When they're asking guys to consistently bend around corners, they're trying to see how flexible that torso is. They want to see how flexible your ankles are. And when you watch tape of these elite pass rushers and you freeze it like we did with Shamar Stewart a little bit the other night, they are at impossible angles. It almost looks like it's an illusion at how well these guys can stay on their feet and bend. And other guys, you know, they get exposed during some of these. these drills and they'll fall, you'll see the feet come out from under him, and it's the difference between a good and elite edge of brouser. I guess the only other note I'd say from the trenches,

we watched tape the other day on Marcus Bow. It's spelled M-B-O-W in case you're confused on who we're talking about. He's a Purdue offensive tackle, 6-4-309 pounds, short arms. We talked about, I think, yesterday actually, short arms at tackle. Played right tackle. If he's going to play tackle in the league, he's more of a traditional left because he's more athletic than he is. a bulldozer, if you will. But the thing we both said, we watched the Oregon tape, and it almost was like the field was slippery,

he was on skates a little bit, it just was not his best tape. I was kind of getting down on him. Then we put in Ohio State, and he was awesome against better dudes on the outside, JTT, Jack Sawyer, controlling them, right? More physical, a little stronger, better with his hands. Then we saw Abdul Carter in the Penn State tape

and denies, Dennis Sutton on the other side and Van Over at times number 15 the number three defense event for Penn State and we watched that tape and he was great in that tape but the thing that I kept running through my brain was my goodness he fits as a center he's not you know he's not his height is fine his weight is fine but his arm length at 33 inches and he's so athletic I think he could be a great center now I put on on X today a post where he got beat on the inside um oladejo again Oladajo, right? But he was playing center.

And it was one of the first reps I've seen him this week, but clearly we're not the only ones who think he would make for a good center. So it's good to see Bo in that spot. And people have been talking about him, maybe late first, early second. I just think at center is a second round pick. This guy's got a chance to be really good. And I'm interested to see now on Thursday, and then in the game, the reps that he has at center and how he progresses this day.

Right. When we talk about length, it's good to keep in perspective. It's not that we don't think there can be. outliers with guys who are short arms that can play off the attack. What we do. But when you watch Marcus Bowes tape, it's great play, great play, and then there'll be a little bit of an issue. And usually when that happens,

it's a length issue. It's a guy got into his frame or he couldn't get into a defender's frame as a run blocker. The lack of length showed up on tape at times. You know, he'd go for stretches where he'd be great. So it's the combination of those two things that makes us think that he's going to have to kick inside. All right, let's go to the afternoon in the trenches. And we'll get back to the

other positions very shortly. But the The other practice in the afternoon, offensive defensive line, I'll let you take the floor. I mean, this is another moment. Or we, there's just been a couple moments where you look over, I look over at Todd, and we, you know, we look at each other. We're like, do you see that? And it was the Sacramento State interior offensive line. And Jackson Slater. He's got a name now, by the way.

That's when you know you made it and when you're a small school guy. Right. Because if you talk to any walking in the hallway, going to your convention center to the, to the, to the, to the, where all the players are and the scouts are hanging out or on the practice field walking around, it's always a Sacramento State guy. Right. Right? Until he has a day like today, and now he's got a name, and it's Jackson Slater, and now we can

call him Jackson Slater. Right. Like, truly, that's what happens. It's like, do you see West Alabama? Do you see Sacramento State? No, do you see Slater? Yeah, right. Yeah.

So the most impressive thing that he was doing, and he did it twice, clearly did it twice, is when he gets out of position a little bit, his ability to sink his hips, and recover. He's, again, upper body flexibility. He's not a tight guy at that size, that big and strong. His ability to recover when he gets a little bit out of position and win that rep is impressive. I thought there was times today where guys thought they had him beat. And he was like, nope, I'm going to slide over.

I'm going to stay balanced. And he just recovers very quickly. And it's, again, simplifying the game. What does he do well? He stays in front of guys. Yeah. That's what he does. He stays low and he stays in front of guys.

Simplify the game. I thought he stood out yesterday. You think he can be in the league? I think he play Garder Center. Do I think he can be a starter? Yeah. In time, yes, I do. Hmm.

I do. I actually don't disagree. I mean, I've got a lot of tapes to watch them. I'm not going to sit here and lie and say I've watched Sack State. Sack State this year. Sack State. But, like, I think you put it best. Let's simplify things.

Like sometimes with Ferguson, the tight end from Oregon, it's like, why are we overly complicating? He knows how to get open. he knows how to separate, and he catches the football. Very simple. He does what's required at the position very well, Slater does. And it's this natural balance. You talk about bend and offensive linemen. It's like low man wins.

You always hear about wrestlers and how they transition to playing offensive line. It's a low man wins game, and he has a unique ability to stay low and take on bigger guys, maybe stronger guys, guys with helmets from much more decorated programs. It just like it didn't matter. He just played his game. It was really cool to watch. Yeah, I just, I set it on the car right over here. I feel like the smaller school offensive line that have come here to varying degrees have all helped themselves out a little bit.

You know, the Alabama A&M offensive tackle Carson Vincent has the longest arms here. of the offensive line, 35 and 1 8th inch arms. That's outstanding length. He moves well. I love the way he plays in terms of excitement. He's constantly, you know, he's just... Energy. He's a high energy guy.

He loves the ball. He loves football. Loves the ball. Yeah, loves ball too. Right. But he moves well, again, as an offensive line coach, you're saying to yourself, ah, he's ducking his head and he's whiffing going up to the second level. There's things we need to work on, but I want to work on that with him.

And then the... Well, it's also cool that, like Jim Nagy, the... executive director at the Senior Bowl. It's hard now. There's a deep tradition here, right? Right. Of bringing in small school guys and giving them an opportunity. And I know you go back, you know, you go back through the years and people who have run this, that you take a lot of pride in being able to provide opportunity, right? Like a Sacramento State offensive lineman, do you think at any point in his mind, he's like, I'm going to get to go play up against like Alabama, old miss

Georgia right so and now with the NIL you got to understand this is the small school guys small schools have become training grounds and developmental grounds to and it becomes a feeding frenzy so Georgia and Alabama

and Michigan Ohio State they go and pluck guys from places let's go take the best who they've already developed them after two or even three years and come bring them and bring them into play they're ready. So to still be able to find guys from Alabama A&M and Sacramento State and all these small schools is really cool, you know? What I love is you know. North Dakota State's not a

small school, but still pumping out offensive line. I always struggle with that one because that program is so good. But I think it's awesome that you know that people are like, oh, you know, there's been some grumbles about this guy dropping out and this guy dropping out. I really want to see him and that guy and who's this kid from this school. cool. And what Nagy and his staff have said, well, watch this. They're actually bringing attention to these great players. And I love that aspect of it. People showed up here, maybe disappointed about certain players. And they're like, wow, hold on, this kid can play. The defensive line for that afternoon group is just, it's phenomenal. And we've touched on it. But some guys that

stood out to me, Walter Nolan had moments today where he absolutely looked apart, talked about He's a first round prospect who showed why he is, you know, just the ability to disrupt, the quickness power combination he has along the interior. I saw some things from Jared Ivy flashes where he looked really good. Uman Mielan from Ole Miss, Prince Lee Uman Mieland. I thought he did some really good things. Kyle Kinnard is speed to power. It was really cool, actually, with Kyle Kinnard, the South Carolina Edge.

standing next to him and he was talking to one of the coaches from the NFL teams and every rep he would go participate in the rep show a different move whether it was outside in speed to power a dip rip whatever it was

and would come back and would race back to talk to the defensive line coach and wanted to ask about his technique and like now when you look at Kyle Kinnard and you can see the effort and the toughness and the instincts on tape. But when you look at Kyle Kinnard and you see, well, he's six, three and a half, it's fine. 248, yeah, kind of undersized.

33 and 3 eighth inch arm. We're talking about guys with 34 and a half, 35. Yeah, it's fine. But then you see the production and you turn on even if you're just a fan of South Carolina or the SEC or college football. Like you heard Kyle Kinnard's name every freaking Saturday. Why? It's because what I saw standing next day.

to him. And I would, I got to the point where I would actually miss a rep here, there, because I was so tuned in to him technically trying to work between each rep to make sure, and he wasn't using that move the next time. He just wanted to get better and make sure he's perfecting it. Like, those are the little things that you see when you're on the field that, I don't know, I'll always carry that with me. When he goes and gets drafted, that memory will be in my head. And then when he makes his first sack in the NFL, be like, that's a dude who cares so deeply and passionately about what he does in his profession now and you can see why he's great it's any field and anything you do in life but like those are the guys that get it and kyle kinnard's one of

the guys that just gets it i feel like the texas edge baron sorrel is kind of in that same school yes he's we talk about him we talk about high ceiling players players that have the potential to be great you know they have all these tools we don't i don't know if we talk about the high floor players enough and Baron Sorel to me might not have the highest ceiling of someone here. Man, he's got a great floor. I think he's going to go in and contribute right away. He's going to find ways to help an organization. When you watch how he wins with his hands, his power, his effort,

just a player that I think that maybe not as flashy as some of the other players here, but has a chance to be a really good pro. I'll tell you one thing I'm learning, okay? The wide receiver group, and I'm not talking just as a senior role, I'm talking to 2025 NFL draft class. The wide receiver group is not that great, okay? It's just not. I mean, you go back and you look at what we've had in years past,

like all the Alabama guys like Henry Ruggs and Jerry Judy and Devante Smith and that whole crew. You've talked about the Texas wide receivers, the LSU wide receivers, the Justin Jefferson's. Like, you go to like Jamar Chase's. It feels like every single year we've had this stacked group of wide receivers, right? For the last, I don't know, eight, nine years. This year's group isn't that good, okay? It's just not. It's not that you hopefully we'll restack next year.

we sure is how we're going to restack in 2027, starting with Jonathan Smith and Jeremiah Smith and Alabama and Texas, the Wingo. So we got that coming in the future. It's not this year. This year, we all know about the running back class. It's absolutely loaded. We'll get to a couple guys who stood out today. But I'm seeing this week more confirmation of what we're starting to see as we dive deeper into

this defensive line class, both at defensive tackle and defensive end, it's loaded, man. It's loaded. And nothing makes general managers happier, especially ones that have quarterbacks, than a draft that's loaded with defensive linemen. I also think you'll say, and I know it because you've said it to me, so I'll speak for you here, this offensive tackle class is a little better than expected. It is, yeah. And now we're seeing interior offensive linemen that maybe aren't first or second round picks,

but our third round picks, it could be starters for. you. So the trenches of this year's class, while it's not sexy, not going to, like, put asses in the seats. It's not going to, you know, ESPN and NFL network aren't pumped about the ratings, right? It's not Williams, Daniels. But I promise you, NFL GMs love this class because it's deep and it's got defensive and offensive linemen. So I just wanted to get that off the plate. The McShay Show is brought to you by Fandul. Every pass, every play, every prop, it's Super Bowl 59. and it's all happening on Fanduil. Bet on America's number one game

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This guy's becoming a real serious part of the offense for the Chiefs. Over one and a half receptions. Let's get that together in the same game parlay. I'm looking at Fandual right now. It says plus 184. Let's take that from them. Plus, to make the Super Bowl even sweeter, new customers can score $200 when you make your first bet.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. Fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1800 gambler or visit RG dash help. Now to the juicy fun stuff, the quarterbacks. Where do I begin? Jackson Dart had a really good day.

Jackson Dart from Ole Miss came in this week and we talked about how he's fighting to be QB3. Jackson Dart among scouts, I've talked to you about the conversations I've had. There are people in the league who legitimately have him as QB2. Okay. The first day of practice, it wasn't a Jackson Dart thing. It was a practice thing. It's just, you know, a lot of installs and all that. Today was a little bit more advanced in terms of what we got out of him.

Thursday is always my favorite day for the quarterbacks because it's a lot of situational. And then, as I've said before, it's when you get in the red zone and it's tight spaces. It's making quick decisions. It's fitting balls in, being smart, being efficient. You learn a lot in that session. And then obviously in the game. Jackson Dart today, it was the next step, right? He saw more confidence out of him, progressions.

He's got away about him. I even was saying, like, how am I going to frame this as we were driving back over the bridge to come back to the convention center to do this show after practice? I'll cough first before I frame it. The best way I can frame it is, like, there's this ease and sense of confidence where you don't, almost like he's a byproduct of Lane, right? And I've talked about it. times quarterbacks are byproducts of the coach that they played for for two or three four years

in college lane is an absolute madman right and he he's like crazy with all this different stuff and I mean that in the most positive way and an offensive guru and all these you know he's got 3,000 plays and this and that and they want to do tempo or go back from this but when you hang out and you talk to lane the chillest dude in the world kind of talk low talking and everything's easy going southern cal guy by trade you know like and with jacks and even though he's a hunter and a fisher and he's more like i've gotten to know him a little bit and interviewed him he's more that kind of guy but when you see him on the field it's not a bunch of raw it's not baker mayfield right and it's not this like mad like scientists almost like a dylan gabriel

that vibe you get where it's like matrix as you called it or terminator with the numbers flashing he's just like kind it's like this relaxed confidence that he carries himself with with that i i have to appreciate, even though it's a little bit of a drop down the shoot and a little bit of like that shortstop. I don't want to call it three-quarter. It's a little bit of like a this motion. I don't see many balls batted down with the line on tape. I haven't seen any here, okay?

And he's just got a smooth stroke. And everything is kind of in rhythm. And when you watch, like, if you get like five throws from Jackson Dart, you're like, yeah, that was good. Yeah, that was good. I don't know. What do you want me to tell you? Right? So that's why I'm, I was kind of thinking in my head, how am I going to explain this?

Because I want to be able to bring what I'm seeing and explain it to everyone who's tuning in. And so there's nothing that jumps out. We're like, oh, my gosh, you see Jalen Milro and his speed and how unbelievably he is in the open field. You see Josh Allen with his arm. You see Lamar and the play make, like, it's not that. It's just like the consistency, the sweet stroke of the ball, timing, trajectory, ball placement. getting it out on time, and it's like one of those things where you, you over time, just grow to appreciate. And that's what I'm seeing with Jackson Dark.

It's what I've seen on tape. It's what I'm starting to see this week in practice. It's not going to be in your face. There's no, like, specific thing that he does exceptionally well. It's the whole package, and you're starting to see him just kind of emerge as the guy who's like, I got this under control. That's Jackson Dart. They're not looking for him, like the yelling and screaming.

I mean, they're not looking for him to get in the huddle or get to the line. They're looking for him. They're looking to him as the leader because he's got this under control. And that's what I'm seeing. And so it's fun to watch. There are certain throws. I mean, I can take you through a comeback route. He threw on time.

Ball was the perfect trajectory, got it over the linebacker, right out of the sideline, right there. I mean, there were several throws today where I was like, that was a great throw. And I loved everything about it mechanically, trajectory, placement. all those things. But it's, he's one of those guys that you just, the more you watch is,

the more you start to appreciate him. So that's the best way I can explain the experience so far with Dart. The entire time we're talking about him, all I'm thinking about is the, you know, the old Braves pitcher, Gregmatics. Yes.

Couldn't throw heat. Couldn't throw whatever, but he was just smarter, always right with the right ball and knew how to attack hitters. And for some reason, you know, I don't know if it's greatest comp,

but that's what's popping into my head. Because, you know, you're not, You don't watch Craig Maddox and you're like, oh, wow, that's Clemens or Randy Johnson or those old fireball throwers. Yeah. But he was so good and so consistent that he was effective. I mean, the guy's a Hall of Famer, and he didn't really have a passball. Yeah, and it's interesting because I covered Jackson Darton, Ole Miss, and Lane Kiff.

And I did games on the sideline three years ago now, I guess it was. I think it was the Kentucky game was one of them. maybe LSU. And it was more, you know, they were running the ball a lot. I remember back then, the Quinchot and Junkins and another really good back. And there was a lot of tempo. It was like, and so I kind of, I didn't want to say I wrote him off, but I was like, I'm not sure this is going to translate.

Like this is not, you know, but he got, he got better. The offense kind of evolved. This season, I watched this tape, and I'm like, oh, it's kind of, this is a different version. This is like the 4.0 version of, you know, Jackson Dart. And like, yeah, I'm struggling too. I saw the Florida game. I saw the interceptions, the three interceptions, two of them counted in that moment, but that's not really who he is. But what he is is the guy who was just laying it all on the line and just brought

this like the competitive juice that you look for. And it was the most important thing in the entire world to him. And he was giving everything he had for a team that was kind of, it was up against it that day, against a Florida team that got better, a defense that got better. And he didn't have his best weapon and like all those things and judkins was playing up at ohio state and said of seeing it through with old miss so i just i don't know i mean he's growing on me man it's the best way i can put it he's growing on me and i'm excited to watch the rest of this process finish up his tape talk to scouts and gms who are talking to him i want to hear about him on the board i want to hear the stories from naggy and gms and guys who have been around him a little bit more this week like i just want

more. I want to hear more because every step I go further down the road with Jackson, the more I like the guy as a player, you know? Yeah, I'm seeing the same things. You talk about how you don't really see the mobility here. That's a big element of his game. Yes. I mean, that's something you haven't really seen showcased here, but I just want to reiterate the fact that this kid can, he moves pretty well. He can make plays with his feet. The other quarterbacks. I'll kind to breeze through it. Riley Leonard he's been perfectly fine.

Yes, he's been perfectly fine. He's, I like, he's got a sweet stroke, short to intermediate, good touch. I want to see more. I feel like it's hard because he's so used to in that offensive system. And in a lot of situations here, too, they're asking for checkdowns.

They're looking to, your receivers maybe didn't run the right route. The protection broke down. So it's either check down or tuck the ball and run. I want to see him stretch it a little bit tomorrow. I want to see him in those situations in the red zone where he has to make a throw, where he's got to make.

I want to see him just like purposely, maybe not go to the easy, quick read in the outlet and try to extend the play instead of just running. I just want to see him utilize this opportunity to showcase a little bit more. That's it. It's not even a knock. It's partly circumstance, partly what he's been trained. to do this past year in that offense and that football team with so much defense and run game. I just want to see a little bit more to see what what's the true upside with this guy.

Where is he as a pastor right now? And I'm having a hard time getting all that. We'll go back and we'll watch tape from practice and maybe I missed a throw here or there when I'm now in the trenches with you and all the meatheads down there. But that's been Riley Leonard. And again, just love the fact that he's even here coming off the National Championship game and participating. one of two or three guys from that game that actually came down and competed.

Jack Kaiser is another one at linebacker had an interception today. And that interception, a good segue, came against Jalen Milrow. Jalen Milro is a phenomenal athlete. Jalen Milro is going to be awesome in the game on Saturday. I'm guessing because of his ability to extend plays. And a lot of times in an All-Star game, there's going to be miscommunication. Guys haven't played in this system a long time. quarterbacks with mobility can kind of erase a lot of problems.

He's got a lot of tools to work with. He's got a big arm. He's got a unique blend of speed and power as a runner. And I know you can sense a butt coming, and there is. I thought his deep ball today, like it's not even on like that post corner he threw, dropping it in beautifully. It's fascinating to me because when he go, like when the trajectory is up and it's beyond like 20 yards,

he's like deadly accurate. His deep ball is like up there. He throws the best deep ball of any of these quarterbacks. And I'm including the top, I'm including Cam Ward. I'm including Shador, right? But it's something about when he's actually got to do this. And it's not this.

I'm sorry if you're listening. It's not throwing the ball up, you know, up and getting arc up. under it and beyond 20 yards. When he's got to rip it, he's really struggling. He's really struggling with his accuracy. And we've seen Josh Allen, we've seen Lamar Jackson,

we've seen dudes. And this wasn't always the case. Remember, this was a league in the NFL that was all pocket passers. It was all the Manning brothers. It was all Tom Brady. It was all, like you just go down like Dan Marinos. Everything was pocket passing. It's different now.

And guys because of their mobility early in their career get opportunities to stay on the field because they can create and they can erase some problems. And the stuff that they're not ready to answer yet or the stuff that they don't have the accuracy yet to do, they can overcome it early and still develop. And we've seen those guys that I just mentioned. And there are several others who have improved their accuracy at the next level. And that's the career arc that we're looking at Jalen Milrow will have to make. And all it takes is one offensive coordinator, one head,

coach, one general manager, one quarterback coach that falls in love with this guy, and there's going to be more than one that says, hey, we got a starting quarterback right now. He's got a year or two left on his deal. He's aging, whatever the circumstance is. Let's bring Jalen in. We talk to Eric DeCosta today, and we'll play that interview for you at some point with the GM series that we're going to do, and we're excited about it. And he was talking about Lamar coming in with Joe Flacco there, right? And we've seen a lot of those kinds of circumstances before. That's going to be the the type of situation he goes into. But the two things I'm seeing from Jalen through two days here,

and the reason I'm comfortable talking about them is because it's the same things we're seeing on tape, right? And it's not a surprise. Anyways, this is breaking news. He's not accurate short to intermediate. He's missing, and he's missing by sizable amounts, and that it's concerning. And I think, too, I just feel like it's going fast for him, right?

And a lot of quarterbacks come here, and it's happening fast, and I think he's getting frustrated at times, right? When you miss it, I play quarterback, and I didn't play it very well. So I have a great history of missing three or four throws in a row, and you start to press, and you get frustrated, and then you get away from your mechanics, you don't play relax. It's like being a golfer after you shank one, the next shot's tough, and you've got to really focus in, but you've got to find a way to focus and still relax, right?

He's pressing. And we saw the Kaiser interception that starts. of this whole conversation. He didn't see him. He didn't know where his eyes should go from one read to the next. And so there's just been a lot. And so it's been challenging for Jalen.

Again, I think tomorrow's another opportunity. I hope he shows some great things in Red Zone. And I'm pumped to see him in the game as he now gets a greater understanding, like all the quarterbacks of where to go with his eyes and what the read requires of him. But it's been a challenging week. And I think that that's very fair to say.

I think it's fair. But I would also kind of agree with some of the things you said that the draft's not tomorrow night. You know, he's got time. He can, if he has a great day tomorrow, you can only control what you can control going for. He could have a great day tomorrow. He can go to the combine.

I hope he throws the ball there. He can throw the ball well there. He can throw the ball well as a pro day. Again, these are issues we've seen on tape. We've now seen him this week. There's only so much you can do about what's happened in the past. You can just maximize his opportunities going forward because, again, you're right.

I don't want to repeat you, but I'll just echo it. There are other quarterbacks who have gone through this and gone on to have very successful NFL careers. No one's trying to, for lack of a better way of saying it, this may be too harsh, burying Jaylon Mill Road to that. No. He's just had a tough week. And you're hoping that tomorrow will take the most of the opportunity on Thursday, and that will get some positive momentum going.

We'll see how it goes going forward. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's all fair and balanced, and I'm excited to see where it goes from here. Dylan Gabriel was kind of up and down. I love him. We know what his game is. I thought there were some throws where he was... He doesn't have Josh Allen's arm. I can confirm that.

I double checked today. He does not have Josh Allen's arm, so the miles per hour will have to get to the bottom of that. But he's got a perfectly capable arm. We talked a lot about him yesterday, so I don't think we have to go into a whole thing on, you know, the Tua comparison, less size, all of that. He is who he thought he was.

Yeah, he is. Yeah. And I thought today, it's just interesting because some guys progress, some guys regress and then progress again. Like, I think today was like almost a tiny step backwards, but he still made a lot of great throws. It just wasn't as consistent as you're used to seeing in a system that he knows like he did in Oregon and how comfortable he was and how quick you. So these guys are swimming in it, man. Like I always remind myself, he's thrown in this receiver for like the eighth time in his life on day two of practice. okay and then the next guy that he's thrown to is he's thrown nine times before and and he doesn't know

he's struggling probably at times to remember his his offensive line coach his name right and he's just got to know the name of the offensive coordinator and the head coach and there's just so much swimming through these guys brains and not to mention like okay now I'm throwing an NFL football and I've got different rules and I'm setting protections and the play calling is different from the the verbiage we use in Oregon or Oklahoma or UCF. So like, I don't know. I just, I keep it all in perspective. I thought Dylan was a little bit up and down today.

I thought Chuck was good from Louisville. I thought he had a better day. It's good to see that. I thought Canada was pretty good. I thought Canada had a nice day. I'll look up his name. Taylor Elgersma. I believe that's how you pronounce it properly.

We'll have the proper pronunciation tomorrow. We'll double check it before we get off the show. Laurier. My dad spoke. French. La Rier from Canada. That's the school he played at. So I thought he had a really nice day. Swear to God, I really thought the ball was coming out. Better timing. Like, he was placing the ball in spots. So it was overall, it was a good day for the quarterbacks. They got better. And I'm excited to see tomorrow. If Wednesday's the day for offensive and defensive line

at the senior bowl, because it's the most physical day of practice, because they spend the most time in one-on-ones because it's full pads and all of that, Thursday's the day for me with quarterbacks. So we'll get into a lot more on that tomorrow. All right, let's wrap it up, but let's get into kind of a quick hitting stuff here. I'll wrap it up. We probably go 50 more minutes. Who knows with us. But I want to kind of just rip through wide receivers, not by practice, overall.

What jumped out at you, a wide receiver, then we'll get the tight ends, and then the running backs. Some more of running backs and linebackers today because of the physical nature than we did yesterday. So some guys I want to get to there as well. But who were, does anything that stood out to you at wide receivers? receiver today. I mean, Jack Bess is quickly becoming one of the bigger stories. I totally agree. And it's great. I mean, and he's just, he just looks so, like, again, we're talking about being a natural pass catcher. It is so, it's like an instinct. It's not even a, like some guys fight the ball or they, like, you tell her trying to look it in. For him, it's,

it's second nature, which puts him in a better, better position to Bruce after the catch. And he's, again, another high energy guy. I saw him run over to Mill Road, jump up, and do that chest bump, but he's playing with a lot of joy. And I think it's incredible to watch considering everything. Yes. The passing of his brother, Tiger and Princeton, we covered that yesterday, but to see a young man who's able to be this focused and to put the performance out, like, all right, I legitimately think he belongs in day two of the draft.

I legitimately think in a Rams style of offense with a lot of West Coast principles, with his physical running after the catch, with his speed, which is pretty impressive when you watch him go vertical, with his strength after the catch, I think he's got a chance to be a legit, at least... So we're going to talk a lot about floors and ceilings, right? He doesn't have the elites. He's not going to be Carol Owens. He's not going to be Jamar Chase. He's not going to be Randy Moss. You know, but the The floor is so damn high with this guy when you're talking about a mid-round prospect or a day two prospect that there's a comfort level there, first of all, as a GM. Like, all right, worst case, he's going to be a number four receiver.

He's going to block his ass off. When we get him the ball, he's going to be able to break a tackle. He's going to play special teams. You know, like that, when you talk about all those things, that floor keeps raising. And Bech's floor is pretty high. And then you start talking about Art. But the ceiling's, like, kind of growing for me. Right. In the right system, I just think, like, and I can't get it out of my head now.

Nagy said Puka Nakuwa, and I'm not saying he's the same guy as Puka, but I got to remind you, there were 31 teams that didn't draft them in the first five rounds, and the teams, and the geniuses, Les Sneed, who's a good friend of mine, and Sean McVeigh, who's an absolute offensive genius. It took him four rounds to get it right before they got it right in the fifth, right? So, like, we all missed on Puka, even though. the team that drafted him missed on Puka to a certain degree. And so, I think, armed with that, I think best kind of benefits, not saying everyone in the

wings like, well, he's the next Puka. I'm just saying like those similar traits of being strong, physical, unbelievable competitor, tough guy, willing to do anything for the team. I think, you know, teams are looking for that. And specifically the system that the Rams run and with a lot of West Coast principles and run after catch stuff, I think he's going to have an opportunity. as a day two pick to make a legitimate contribution in the NFL

and that's been fun to watch this week truly also a wide receiver another guy who just keeps making plays Jalen Noel I thought his teammate I thought he's Jaden Higgins the bigger guy 6-3 right what is he 6-0

217 I think yeah Higgins is I don't have written now whatever he's the he's the bigger of the 2-17 6036-03 603 and a half 217, big guy, right? Thought he really struggled in the first day. Very surprised by that.

But today I thought he played better. More just steady performance. A couple contested catches, running after catch. I thought it was better. But when you compare in those two, and a lot of people had Higgins rated higher, people I talked to throughout the year, than his teammate, Jalen Newell,

who's only 5'9 and a half, and only 196 pounds, and has short arms 30 and 1 eighth inch, and small hands, 8.5 inch hands, small. He's been like, Tess Johnson from Oregon has been the hardest guy to cover

at just 156 pounds because he's so damn quick. But also this game and the practices make it easier for a guy like that because it's not as much like press in your face. You're not dealing with 10 other guys in the field and a lot of these reps. 10 other guys for 20 other,

you know, 21 other guys, right? So, Tess has been the most, like, has the most, most wow factor in terms of getting separation. But Noel has been kind of just the most steady, really, really good wide receiver here this week. And the thing I wrote down today that stood out to me the most, excellent hand-eye coordination

and excellent balance as an athlete. Like the control and balance that he has, and things would be thrown at him. Last minute, it's just like, no problem. Pluck. Take it. Take it and go. You know, advance it. So I don't know.

I just like his game a lot. He's not a first round pick. Probably second round. Worst case, third round, where everyone's up going. But I see a slot receiver. I see a really good number three. If things work out perfectly for him in the right system, maybe he's a really good number two.

But Jalen Noel's having a really good week. I think you see the same thing on tape with him, too. Great tape. Very tough. Oh, and he's fast, too. Right. Oh, yeah. Juice jumps out right away.

I do think that Hagen Still has a chance to go ahead of him because of the size. It's easier to find routine. I shouldn't say it's easy. easier. Teams have had more success finding smaller slot receivers later than the draft than they do find in those guys to make plays on outside, on the outside, so they tend to maybe push or reach for them a little bit.

But I want to ask you about another guy, and that's Washington State's Kyle Williams. Feels like he's popped a little bit. I know you said he don't put words in your mouth. I think you said that he fought the ball a little bit. You see the speed. Yeah, I wrote my notes. He's fighting the ball today. I saw that a couple times.

But he's 6-2-208, He ran the fastest zebra time, the miles per hour on the zebra technology that we've talked about, which I absolutely love. NFL scouts, more importantly, absolutely love. See, like, true play speed. He had the fastest time. I think the fastest wide receiver yesterday. And outside of defensive backs, he was the fastest player, I think it was.

On the first day of practice, we'll get those numbers for you tomorrow. And I'd rather look at him Thursday and say, okay, from the whole week. Because you don't know how many guys get the chance to actually. you know, get to top gear in a certain practice, especially the first day. So let's get to the end of the week. But Kyle Williams, clearly one of the fastest players here, okay? Yeah, fighting the ball a little bit. I saw that today, but still just really sudden and fast for a guy who's got good speed.

So certainly has helped himself. The other thing I'll say, too, another player, just mention him real quickly. DeKwan Felton, it's a freaking freight train, man. Like, I don't know how great he's going to be, but it's, It's so hard to find a big physical X who can run through dudes after the catch. I think he's probably going to be like a number four in the league, but someone who can be an offensive chess piece. He's six four and three-eighths, 222 pounds.

You know, we're talking about just a big dude, long arms. I wrote, here in my notes, I'll just read him to you. Segmented route runner, like not smooth, not quick, in and out. It's got to gear down, getting in and out of breaks. not fluid, but bigger receivers like this. There's two types of separation. Separating with your quickness, like getting in and out of breaks. Like the Tess, right?

Yeah. Tess Johnson. Talking about Jalen Newell, talk about guys who would just win with quickness. And then the other guys win with their size and muscle in players. And Dayquan Felton's going to have to be one of those guys. Like, he's a monster. He swallows the ball too.

Right. And he doesn't have the biggest hands, which is surprising. Nine and a half just looking at this. But he just engulfs the ball with his hands. Long. Very long. And also, he just, the way he runs after the catch, I wouldn't as a D.B. Want to have to take this guy down if he gets just a little bit of a runway.

So powerback. He's another guy who jumped a little bit. I don't want to say he had this awesome day. It's not what I'm saying here. But I was impressed with him. But the most intriguing pass catcher to me today, I don't want to say the best. but the most intriguing pass catcher to me in either practice was the tight end from Miami

Elijah Arroyo he's an F tight end he's not a blocker got it okay he just has first round traits he's not a first rounder I'm not saying it but like when you look at him on the field he looks like an all pro F tight end he's athletic he gets in and out of breaks

he's got all and I just keep watching him and I see it's not spectacular plays. It's just like getting open, you know, and getting down the field and doing things at most tight ends. The rest of the tight ends kind of, I don't want to say can't, but they don't have the level of like athleticism. Right. To do. He's the most athletic tight end here, period. Ferguson has been awesome. He's the, he's the most consistent. He's the, the best football player of the tight ends right now. Mason Taylor's probably the most complete package in terms of football player matching athletic ability. But this Arroyo guy just keeps intriguing me. Why was he so awesome against Florida? And then the production didn't match up the rest of the year.

Was it a Cam Ward thing? Was it a system? Was it all the other weapons? I don't know. So I'm dying to find out more about him. Why aren't we talking about him as one of the top two or three tight ends? Why is he jumping? Why is he got a false start and team drill? You know, like, There's pieces. It's almost like being a private detective. I was going to say a puzzle. Yeah. Puzzle. Right. So like now I'm getting more pieces.

And I'm just curious. We're just going to leave it. I'm very curious to find out what I'm about to find out about this young man. And where he is in his development, what he is is, you know, off the field, his work ethic. I'm just dying to know more about him. And that's, that is a compliment because he's so intriguing. And what he's done that. I think he's going to make a lot of people go back, a lot of coaches who are just getting the process, offensive coordinators, tight-end coaches, and be like, yo, so what's our grade

on that Arroyo guy? Wait, what? Third, fourth? Third? Why? You know? So, very intrigued by him. I love when you get players like this, because you are like a dog with a bone.

Most players you watch, you watch four tapes, and you feel good about what you see. You feel good about this is who this guy is, you know, we've done it long enough that, you know, when you do the background, you do the work. So I love it when you get a guy that you've got to spend a little more time in your mind on. And you will get to the bottom of it. By the end of this cycle, and you get a few of these players every cycle, right? Yes. There's always a few that you're like, why is he not, why is there not more buzz about him?

Why am I not getting phone calls about him? Why is he not getting put in these mock traps? And I love it when it happens because it makes you, I just think it keeps you excited. Yes. It makes you work a little bit harder. It drives me crazy. Right. It drives me.

So it's kind of cool when it happens. And he's, listen, you saw it on tape, you see it here. I'm seeing exactly the same thing. The talent is so intriguing. Yeah. The running backs. I thought Damien Martinez from Miami, the transfer, Oregon, very productive early in his career, very productive at Miami. The first day of practice, you can't tell because they're not doing as much inside run.

It's not as physical. So just like we could see with the offensive linemen and defensive linemen, you could start. to see like the real on Wednesday, you can start to see the real running back and linebacker, okay? The first day is like, yeah, we'll see some athletic stuff, some cover some, but like now, why are they here? Okay, well, Damien Martinez showed me why he's here and why he's considered by a lot of scouts is one of the top seven, eight running backs in the class in a class that's absolutely freaking loaded. And, and I saw it today, and it's this combination of running low behind his pads with vision and patience. And I kept putting in my notes. He, he,

He is patient. He's got great vision, but he's still decisive. Like, we're always advancing it. I love the way he ran the ball, and I'm going to let you go wherever you want on these running backs. LeQuint, the, Alan from Syracuse. Alan from Syracuse, my gosh, he catches the ball well. Plucking over his shoulder, adjusting to the ball.

That jumped out to me with him, and a lot of people think he might be in the mix for, like, top five, six. I mean, there's so many guys. I don't know. We obviously know Ashton Jinty is going to be the first running back off the board, probably a top 15, 20 pick depending on team need. But then you start getting into like all these other backs. We got North Carolina, we got Iowa, we got the Michigan back.

There are so many backs. And so to see them, the guys who came here and elected to compete, it's giving them an opportunity. And I'm telling you, there are some guys in the league who think Le Quentin Allen is going to be, one of the top six, seven running backs. And when you say that, it's like, so what? He's like the sixth or seventh running back taken. When you say that this year, you're saying he's maybe better than a camp scataboo from Arizona

State. You know what I mean? Like that's, you're saying a lot when you put him. So it's going to be really interesting to see how this thing shakes out. I think he's done a lot for himself. Devin Neal, I just love his run style. He's going to be probably like in the top, like 15 range of running backs taken. But you see the low to ground, the center of gravity.

just weaving in and out. Got to see a little bit more from him today. And I know there's another guy that you're really intrigued by, too. Yeah, the Delaware running back, Marcus Yarns. I've seen enough here to get excited about the juice. Haven't watched a lot of tape. It would be fun to go back and watch him. He does not look like a fish out of water here, so.

No. Which is great. Caught the ball well. Caught the ball well. Another guy that we loved coming in, R.J. Harvey, UCF. I don't know if you saw this. He ran a wheel or a seam route. And, man, he separated a little bit.

He's not a big dude. I think he's under 5-8, but he's compact, he's strong, and he tracked the ball really well on that play. And just to get back to Martinez a little bit, because you know he's my guy, you know, I love him. Love the way he hugs blocks. You know, when you talk about that patient and that vision, he gets skinny. And he, like, there were times today where the edges were trying to close in on him from the outside. They'd beaten their blockers, but because he had hugged the blocks so well, they couldn't get to him. I just, I think he's an oppressive back, not only here, but when you watch the tape.

I'm going to read this list to you real quickly. Bear with me. Producers are annoyed. Camera folks are phenomenal, saving our life this week. They're annoyed. It's time to go to dinner. Oh, reservations tonight. We got reservations tonight. Mention Marissa and I, actually, we cheated last night.

Noble South. I've talked to you guys about this. If you're ever down in Mobile, Alabama, if you ever get to the Senior Bowl one day, love to have you come join us. Noble South is one of the great dining experiences in the South. and truly, like, one of my favorite restaurants to go to. And we got last night to meet Chris, the owner, who's a chef by trade, and had a place over, I'm going to say it wrong, point clear maybe, somewhere around here, found this property in downtown Mobile,

fell in love with it. He's the executive chef, owner of the place. He started it. He is a young son named... Noble's the middle name. Warren. Warren Noble. is his name, is his first and last name, okay?

Name the place, obviously, Noble South. Warren turns out, but we just found this after the fact. I did a whole thing early on in talking, featuring Noble South and all the dining places we like. We talked, the place we went Chuck's Fish on Monday night, Chris Eddings and my relationship with him and getting to know him in Tuscaloosa and here in Mobile. And so Noble South is a place we featured as well

and said, you know, when we get down to Mobile, we're going to bring the whole crew, and we're going tonight. We're going tonight. I'm not going to tell you what time. We're going tonight. And last night, we were going to go somewhere else to eat. And these two thickest thieves, Marissa and Mench, are like, yeah, but can, why don't we just go tonight? We'll sit at the bar.

I'm like, fine, we'll go. So we go. And Chris is telling him, he's in there, and he's got a new manager, he's training, all this story. He tells us the story. I just assumed, because they DMed me and were like, hey, thanks for the shoutout. Really appreciate it. A while back when we talked about him, I think, in October or November. You know how he found out, I mean, you know now, but how he found out his son's a huge football fan.

Warren Noble, the restaurant named after him. He's 14 years old now. Since he's been like nine or 10, he's been doing his own mock drafts. So he's one of us, like insane, just like the rest of us, right? They're driving in the car to go somewhere. And we just start on, I start on some rant about this place down in Mobile, Alabama, and it happens to be their restaurant named after the kid who loves doing mock drafts. And Chris said, I got to just say thank you.

Not even about, like, yeah, it's wonderful that you give a shout out to the restaurant. But it was like one of the only times of the 14-year-old son that I was cool. And he's like, so thank you for that. It was a true moment. It's an awesome story. Yeah. He was great. And we're looking forward to going back there tonight.

I know I was going somewhere. I've got Noble South on my mind now. Right. Running backs. And so now I get everyone even more pissed off behind the scenes here. Running backs. Just when we tell you, like, it's kind of an honor this year to be in the top five, top seven, top ten. Just listen to these names real quickly. Ashton Ginty, like generational talent, Boise State.

Caleb Johnson, I'm higher on than most. I just love them from Iowa. Omari and Hampton, dudes in the league absolutely love him. He just grinds through yards. Okay? Jordan James, remember Jordan James? Like the phenomenal, highly productive on Oregon, undefeated team for the vast majority of the season.

Beyond that, Dylan Sampson, the offense ran through him with a freshman quarterback, right, at Tennessee. Then you've got Cam Scadaboo, the best performance of the entire postseason. And the season, how he wasn't invited to New York for the husband is beyond me. Quinchan Judkins, national champion, Ole Miss Transfer, helped take them to that next level. In addition to his teammate, Trayvion Henderson. Remember that 70-something yard run on the screen or whatever it was, like the speed that he showed,

explosiveness, right? R.J. Harvey mentioned, Mench just mentioned his name. Then LeQuint Allen, I've got, Damien Martinez. These are all guys that are here. Trevor E.T.N., also here from Georgia, the former Florida transfer, brother in obviously well-known career. And you get down to guys like Calell Mullings from Michigan, linebacker, turn running back, awesome year for Michigan. He's here. So Jarrez Hunter, Auburn, here. Breschard Smith, that's my guy. Remember him? Breschard Smith.

Also, CFP, playoffs, SMU, he's here. So this class is just loaded with talent. Right? Good luck sorting it out. Yeah. Two linebackers really quickly before we'll let you go. We'll let you go. And thank you for sticking with us here.

Because I think the janitorial staff is going to come and shift. Shut down the convention center. But I just want to mention these two guys because the effort and the playmaking ability, and it's frustrating as a linebacker in the first day of practice because you're having to cover these smaller running backs and you're out on an island and it's too big of an island, and it sucks. But today they get their revenge because you're going inside, team drill, inside run, all that stuff.

Demetrius Knight, and you just talked about yarns from Delaware, he had his welcome to the NFL moment, the Delaware running back, coming up to the big leagues today. Demetrius Knight absolutely trucked him. I'm on the plane, and I didn't have my list on me. I'm on the plane watching tape of South Carolina. I knew they had the linebacker to me. I didn't know his number.

I kept writing down. I put in my phone notes and I figure out who 17 is because this guy, all he does is make freaking plays. He's okay in coverage. When he turned him loose on a bliss, he's everywhere. Every tape I was watching 17 was making a play after play. Then he knocks Delaware out cold today. And then you can see he's the alpha dog.

Okay? He, like, everyone's rallying around him. He's what you think of when you think of a Mike linebacker, right? Everyone looks to him, make the call, the leadership. His instincts are awesome. He's a heat-seeking missile. And I hate when people use that phrase, I'm not sure why I did. But, like, honestly, when he gets the picture, his ability to get from A to B and the

effort and the closing burst is awesome. Then the other guy I'll leave to you, the Georgia linebacker, all Munden, and I've had an emotional roller coaster relationship with Munden as a prospect dating back two years ago. Right. When we started to look at him potentially coming in the draft, ups and downs, injuries, all that stuff. But where is he now?

What do you see him? Well, I've always been higher on him than where I've seen other people rank him. I just think he's a guy that's physical concern. He's banged up a little bit this year. I think he missed some time, and maybe that's why some people have him. a little bit under the radar. But when I watch him, he's a physical, rangey run defender. I think he's a guy that can cover a little bit.

You saw that in practice today. You saw the coaches getting fired up about the way he was playing. You're talking about a guy I played in Georgia. Also, Flash has a pass rusher. I just, there's a lot. He's a versatile player. I love the way he plays the game. And it surprises me that he hasn't jumped up.

But I think he might be moving upboards a little bit with the way he's playing. Because, again, he's coming out of that Georgia program. And when you watch the tape, I mean, I remember when I throw on the table, I was like, why? This guy can't play, man. Yeah. Yeah, he can. I'm excited to see more.

I think he could be a day two pick, and I don't think a lot of people thought that coming in the year after the year he had last year. It's been really cool to be here, like really cool. First year since I was a senior in college that I hadn't been at the senior bowl was last year. So to be back and to catch up with old friends and to have, General managers and head coach, like talking to Mike Tomlin today and John Lynch and like to see like excited for this show, Mench got his first like, like, a celebrity, a celebrity moment walked in and gave him a Mention you good. No, they didn't wait.

It said, hello, love the pod. So Munch is feeling some love here in Mobile. Most importantly, it's just cool to see people in the league excited about what we're doing to have a couple GMs sit down with us. We're going to do the series that I've mentioned. and we'll figure out how we're going to do it and keep you informed. But thank you for watching. Please keep tuning in.

We need some likes and subscribes. That's what they tell me. It's like algorithms and all this other crazy stuff that's over my head. But if you get a minute, click the buttons, you know what they are. And we're going to be here again tomorrow.

This is two days at the Senior Bowl. We've got an awesome group with us. We're going to take them out to dinner and show some appreciation tonight. We'll be right back at it tomorrow and Thursday. please check us out on social media. We talked to Mench last night. We had to come into Jesus' meeting with Mench.

He's changing his freaking X Twitter handle. It's not going to be scouts, Inc. Mention. Feel free to send me and McShea suggestions. Yeah, we want suggestions. There we go. Let's get some suggestions. I think it should be Mench you good, at Mentsya Good. He thought maybe...

I'm good, man. I'm good, man. I got it. It doesn't make they sound bad now. I thought they sound a good man. Send us some better ideas. He needs a new X handle. I can't say Scouts Inc.

Mench anymore in the show. So we're going to get that done this week. But check out all of our stuff. We'll be on social media. We've got Instagram. It's Team McShay 13. What's yours? Scouts Inc.

Mensch? No, no. It's S. Mention 76. It's even worse. Yeah. I mean, we'll get working on it. But we'll be back tomorrow. Third day, final day of practice this week.

And we get so much more to share. But again, thank you for joining. We appreciate it. Everyone on video. Spotify. The YouTube video. Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Please keep hanging with us as we work out through the kinks,

but we will be back tomorrow on Thursday for the third and final day of practice. Excited to share with you what we see. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-help.com. Call 1-88-7-89-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland.

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