The McShay Show - Shedeur to the Browns? Plus, the 2025 Running Back Deep Dive

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by breaking down Shedeur Sanders’s fit with the Browns, and whether the team would be smart to select him with the no. 2 pick. Then, the guys go through Todd’s running back tiers and talk hidden gems, standout traits, NFL comps, team needs, system fits, and more. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:25) Shedeur Sanders to the Browns?! (21:44) 2025 RB Prospect Deep Dive + Todd's Tiers (32:05) Todd's RB Tier 1: Which Teams Are In the RB Market? (36:33) Deep Dive: Ashton Jeanty [RB1] (43:28) Deep Dive: Omarion Hampton [RB2] (49:52) Tier 2 Deep Dive: TreVeyon Henderson [RB3] (56:56) Tier 2 Deep Dive: Quinshon Judkins [RB4] (1:02:51) Who's RB 5: Kaleb Johnson or Cam Skattebo? (1:17:34) Todd's Tier 3 & 4 RB Prospects: Power Backs (1:23:06) Todd's Tier 3 & 4 RB Prospects: Scat Backs (1:41:35) Mock Draft 2.0 Drops on Thursday Todd’s Mock Draft 2.0 releases Thursday! Sign up for The McShay Report for full access. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Shador Sanders is going to be a Cleveland Brown. Plus, we kick off our position group series with the best running back class in at least eight years, maybe ever. There is no time to waste today. 38 days until the NFL draft. Metsch, you good? I'm good, man.

Good. Hit it. I think we fail to do sometimes, Munch, is to put ourselves in the shoes of each individual team, those decision makers, okay? It's easy to look at things globally, right? Such as thoughts like Shador would have been a quarterback five or quarterback six last year. Or Shador Sanders, he has these weaknesses. He doesn't have the biggest arm.

have elite mobility or in my case, I talked to a couple personnel people from teams drafting quarterbacks that are in the top 10 and they were underwhelmed and surprised by their interviews and meetings with Chodor at the combine during those 15 minutes. It's easy to do the global thing, right? But what matters to most teams doesn't always apply to all, right? So some things got me thinking this weekend. I've been grinding, and I know you have been too on for a long time, we have been, but knowing that we're breaking up into positional groups.

And we're going to get to running backs today. And what an awesome group it is. It was only confirmed by all the tape. I've been studying the last six, seven days, going back and rewracking all these guys, really like one after another, the tape to make sure I'm comfortable because this is it. Okay. But in the midst of all this, and my commenters, I've noticed, by the way, the McShea report. Please Google it if you want to subscribe and be a part of this.

I think we're producing some pretty good magic, if you will. A lot of good content, things we're hearing, analysis, kind of moving the conversations forward, mock drafts, rankings, all those things. Google the McShay report. You can go get it. And it's real easy once you Google it to subscribe, $4 to get you through this draft, $36 double down, gets you through this draft and next year's draft. Also, Mench, tell the people how they can help.

Listen, hit the follow button on Spotify. Hit the subscribe button on the McShay YouTube channel. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter. He's at at McShay 13. I'm at you Goodmensch. That's M-U-E-N-C-H. And listen, please consider subscribing to the McShea report. I mean, Todd does not take it lightly that he's asking for some of your hard-earned money.

And he is, I promise he's going to do his best to deliver. Honestly, we're really excited about the community we're building here. We're reading the comments. We're trying to learn from our mistakes. learn what we're doing right too. This is only going to get better from here. And we really appreciate the time that people are taking to kind of invest in the show. Oh, you're getting better at this and I don't like it.

But you mentioned the comments off of my comment about the comments. And I do have to get a chuckle because the commenters are totally wrong. Bill Simmons and I were texting this weekend. And my phone's right here, right? And I'm like, and I was like, I'm going to stop down for a minute. Like, I want to see some background on this. And to provide background, because I know everyone's not following this as closely as we are. The Brown's play-by-play broadcaster, Andrew Siciliano, who you probably know NFL network

and formerly the red zone and all those things. Great guy too. He had Miles Garrett on. Miles Garrett hinted that he knew what the quarterback situation was. There was a quote in there said, I like it enough. in regards to the quarterback situation. And does he know what the future is going to be? Are you comfortable with it? He said, I like it enough to be here smiling in front of you. Because I think we have a good chance of that happening and making the most of it.

So right away, everyone started to think, well, is it a veteran quarterback he's talking about? Is it, is it Cam Ward trading up to number one? But then if you kind of follow it along, everyone's like, well, the only person that they're guaranteed to have at the quarterback position, where money doesn't come into a factor and we'll be there at number two is shodor Sanders right so then more smoke kind of supporting that theory should or Sanders exchanges pleasantries if you will with the Cleveland Guardian's top prospect Travis Bazana on Instagram it's like I don't peddle in this stuff man I really don't like the rumor mongling and all that stuff but I

You start to look at and you're like, maybe I should take a minute on this, right? Maybe I should look at this whole situation. And instead of being like, ah, he doesn't have the arm, the winters are horrible in Cleveland, it's not the right place for him, does he want to go there? There also, you know, there's been some stuff out there. He only plays with the Browns from Madden. And like, so there's a lot to unpack here, right? But I do think maybe some of the conspiracies.

theorists could be on to something here, right? For starters, it is apparent that the Cleveland's on the list of acceptable spots, right? Because if Shador is messing around with Bazaana, who had to look up, by the way, I hate to admit it, but I used to be the biggest Red Sox baseball fan in the history of the world. No idea. Right? But if he's messing around with that and has shown some interest there and there's talking about the Browns and he only plays them on Maddens and all that stuff, like,

you start to think, well, maybe that's on one of the list of the teams that's acceptable for Coach Prime and for Chador and their team, right? And that's not the case for every other team, right? I talked to you about two other teams that he met with. Right. Their responses were it didn't seem like Shador cared a whole heck of a lot compared to every other prospect that's coming in here about what we thought of him. Right. And so you start to think about it. So is it, we know we'd love to go one to Tennessee.

If Cleveland's on that list, I've only heard reports that the Giants could be on that list of teams that are acceptable to. And so that's interesting, right? Because that part's important. We've been talking about this since like October. Shador is going to control. And by control, it's not like I'm going to pluck him on one team. It's there are some organizations. my son's not going to go play for right and i can tell you this i'm never going to reveal who those

two people were or the organizations they work for or anything more than i revealed in the mitche report but i will reveal this those two members were not from the cleveland browns okay so they are not crossed off the list in my from my standpoint from where i sit today we also know this i'm just trying to go through the facts we also know cam wards expected to be the number one overall pick, whether it's Tennessee picking there or a team moving up to that number one spot. All the information I'm getting is that that's the most likely situation at the top of the draft. So maybe there's some fire to this smoke. Maybe there isn't. But either way, I want, I want this show to constantly, and we talk about this a lot of mench off the air. It's our job with the

information we have and with the tape we study and with the experience that we have to advance the narrative. We could be like the other show in the world, come on, be like, you see, Bezada and Cleveland and Miles Garrett. And we could do that rumor stuff and like put rumors on top of rumors. But that's why I stopped down for a few hours. And I started to do two things. I made a conscious decision to come sit up here in my office and do some research on Kevin Stefansky, who he's worked with in the past, putting myself in Andrew Barry,

the general manager for the Cleveland Browns shoes and trying to figure out what, like, what are his options? Where is he with the salary cap? Where is he in terms of what his options are at that quarterback position? Where is this roster now, which is pretty good? What's missing? Quarterback. And then also make a couple calls to people who have been or are in that seat as a general

manager in the NFL so that I can take myself out of that global thinking for a minute of well, he doesn't have the arm strength and he's not going to he's not the top three prospect. He could be falling. I talked to a couple of people from different organizations that think he don't, he doesn't want to go there. And talking to them about, okay, if you're in charge of the Browns, given their circumstances and how handcuffed they are, they're more handcuffed than any other organization by one contract, Deshaun Watson, right?

Okay. Yeah. So I did all those things. for Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefanski specifically, you believe in what you're doing, right? You've built a good roster. You believe in yourself as a coach and the history you've had and the winning you've done.

You also know that you need to win at some point real soon to save your job. Drafting at number two, having the season they had, stacking those consecutively is not going to cut it. But you need to be able to, So like you believe in what you're doing and you know if we have time and a few years to build this thing and we get the quarterback and we can insert it. We got Miles Garrett now locked down. We brought in Jerry Judy.

We got we got Denzel cornerback. Denzel Ward. Like we've got pieces that are hard to get in this league, but we need a minute. We need a minute. Give us a little bit of time. The problem is if we're picking here at two again and have a chance to draft one of those top quarterbacks, it's probably going to be somebody else making those. decisions and probably going to be somebody else coaching those players, right? So how do you solve the crisis? They have a crisis at the quarterback position and whether it was ownership

forced it upon them, however it worked out, they're stuck with this situation. Deshawn Watson was the worst contract given to an individual, maybe in the history of sports. Right? Yeah, it's not hyperbole. It truly is it. So how do we manage with the handcuffs off. What's our best path, right? They know they've got a roster good enough to win a lot of games in 2025. And probably for the next two seasons because of those guys I've told you, they just need solid quarterback play. They don't need elite quarterback play. They don't. They need solid quarterback play. They did not get that from Deshawn Watson. That's what happened last year. They also know that they won't have the money, they don't have the money to sign a top tier guy.

They weren't in on Stafford. This is not a plus. pay and play situation for them. And that's not changing in 2026. So as I'm putting myself in Andrew Barry's shoes, I'm saying what like organizationally, what's our way out of purgatory? They're in purgatory because of Sean Watson. It's only to draft and get a quarterback on a rookie contract. It truly is. These two things are true. Okay. Hear me. And Barry has to be thinking these things. One, they can't expect to be drafting this high again for a while. They're too good. That roster's too good. Okay. And if they are, as I said, Barry and Stefansky are very likely out of jobs. Number two, because of the Watson deal,

you don't have the cap space to make a big ticket signing, as I just said. So it ain't next year in the draft for a quarterback or else you're out of a job probably. And it's not going to be this year or next year signing a big big name guy who can come in and solve it all so i'm saying all this to reiterate cleveland's best chance winning short and long term is to strike goal with this number two pick so let's start asking the questions let's dig let's dig in is shadore an elite prospect no would should or have been a top four or five quarterback taken last year no but if i'm barry here's how I see it. And this is the difference when I say globally versus each situation

and organization individually. If I'm, if I'm Andrew Berry, and this is the most important thing I'm going to say all day, my greatest asset in this whole mess is my head coach. Stofansky is my greatest asset. Why? Because Stavansky has a proven track record of getting the most out of pocket passing quarterbacks with limited mobility.

Okay. Sound familiar? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, Shador's skill set is strikingly similar to a handful of quarterbacks that Stafansky's had, hadn't had won a lot of games with in the past, including Case Keenum, won 11 games with the Vikings. Stafanske's was a quarterback coach in 2017. Kurt Cousins, Vikings team won 10 games under Stafansky with cousins as OC in 2019. most recently late career joe flacco still a big arm but not the arm he had in baltimore elite joe blacko yeah and and can't and can't move at all okay and even won healthy games with the hell with he won games with a healthy to sean watson and he won a couple games with p j walker and jeff driscoll okay the only person the only player at that quarterback position stephansky has not won with is a confidence shattered, distracted, and physically broken down to Sean Watson.

Every other quarterback he's won with. And they've all been pocket passing quarterbacks with less than elite arm strength and with less than desirable mobility. Give Stefansky a confident, healthy pocket passer. History tells us they're going to win a lot of games together. Right? also working for Barry, Andrew Berry and the Browns organization is Sanders is seemingly he wants to be a Brown or they're on the short list of teams that he wants to play for. And for Cleveland, Mench, that's not nothing given their just dreadful quarterback history.

So that's a bit like someone wants to come play with us. And when he's protected and playing in rhythm, he's the best pure pocket passer in this class. Okay. So why, so I'm going to ask this question. Why'd they why'd we bring in Kenny Pickett? Why has there been talk about Russell Wilson? If, if you're so right, McShay, and you're on to something and Shador could be the picket number two. Why, why are we doing those things? Yeah, Mishay, why are we doing those things? Because if Shador isn't ready in week one and maybe, maybe like Drake May like they'll be a lot more comfortable rolling them out there in week five, six, seven, you know what I mean? Kenny Pickett can win some games. Yeah, but why do you both

then? Why get Wilson and Pickett? That was the next question. If they can get Russell on the cheap and it doesn't cost anything, isn't it better to have a few bowls in the China shop duking it out to see who's a winner? If you have three quarterbacks, you have, you know, you don't have a quarterback. You're Cleveland, man. You're Cleveland and you are literally in quarterback purgatory. So I'm, listen, I'm not sitting here today saying, and I know I opened it with, Shador Sanders is going to be a Cleveland route.

But this is the, this would be the reason why Shador Sanders would be the number two overall pick. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to some people who have sat in that chair or sitting in that chair and know what they're talking about. Not ideal. You wish it was Jaden Daniels last year, but it's the best of the litter this year. And if you're not picking there next year and your free agency salary cap situation is not changing because it's Deshaun Watson, Watson hell that they're in. in. So let all three battle it out in camp. Best man wins. And best man wins to start the season maybe.

And then you at some points, DeFancy is going to know, are Shador's ready. All I'm going to say is this, given everything that I just said, and it's your floor, a week ago, I glossed over Cleveland taking Shador at number two. Right now, I believe, and I want you to hear me when I say this, I truly believe Shador Sanders is in play with that number two pick for the Cleveland Brouts. He has to be. He has to be for all the reasons he mentioned for the need. Listen, you talk about globally. I love living in my bubble.

The Mench bubble is great, man. Because in the Mench bubble, in the Mench bubble, I'm going to the owner and saying, look, man, I need two years. I'm going to take a great player, too. We can get a great player or two. We're not going to get the quarterback. We're going to get, we're going to bring in Russ. We're going to pick it as the backup.

up and that's what we're going to have to roll with this year. And the next year, we're going to see where the quarterback market is. We're going to address it then. You know, right now is not the right time for us to pull the trigger. That's my world, right? That's not a real world. That just, it doesn't work like that match. It just, you know, everyone knows that it doesn't work like that.

Or just trade back and get him later on. Well, it doesn't work like that. You know, the Giants will probably take him three if he's there, I think. So saying that and acknowledging that I don't think Shadorasdors is an elite quarterback, I get it. I still get taking him there because even though I don't think. think the churors in a league quarterback prospect in the jaden daniels mold or the drake may mold or the caleb williams mold i think it's a chance to be a really good starter in the league

so in that sense you go out and get him i will say this this is what's amazing to me about this and it's kind of funny with the stafford comment too if cleveland's on the list of places he'll go who's not on the list who's not on the list because i get it's the fanzky i get the i get the I get the draw. I get the roster, too. The draw of playing for Stefansky, and I get the roster, and I get all that. And I mean no disrespect to the Cleveland organization, by the way. I grew up watching Browns games and the dog pound and thinking they were like one of the coolest organizations in the league that wasn't my hometown team. I love the Browns. But the idea that they're somehow in the list and who's not on the list?

But no, okay, I'm glad you asked. I'm glad you asked. Knowing what I know and being privy to the information I have that I can only share a fraction of, right? I can tell you this much. There's at least one team, maybe two that's not on the list because of the organization. And there's one team, maybe two that's not on the list just simply because of where they pick is my guess. And I don't think, I, I know, I don't think it says like, it's like, deep and back channel as you would like i think the first three teams are probably on the list because

they're the they're drafting with the first second and third pick to be quite honest yeah i mean but i also will say this what's the criteria for this list i want to know if he's got a head coach that can coach quarterbacks right yeah all three all three have head coaches yep Cleveland browns have head coach great track record Brian dable i've told you what i believe in him in terms of how he can develop a quarterback. So it makes it easy for the, for the Sanders team, for the Shador Sanders coach prime team to look at those top three picks and be like, yes, the top three picks, but they also have head coaches that can coach the position and can get the most out of, get the most out of my son. All right. It's time to move on. I got normally, I'd go 20 more minutes. Let's talk about it.

We just hit the 20 minute mark. Tucker promised he's going to keep me on on pace today. If you want to read the rest of it, it's in the McShea report. Google it. Yeah. This won't be the last of it. I mean, this is going to be ongoing. And it's great. It's great to talk about.

Also in the McShea report that came out this morning is some of the deep dive into our running backs. We're going to do evaluations in there, some graphics, some video that I did separate from like the video that we do. She's cooking on X right now, by the line. I'm on a roll, brother. I'm on a roll. 13 at mcshay 13 team mcshay 13 at uh instagram i've never produced more video i'm just like i think it's because we and i want to thank pff ultimate i think it's because we like of how precise the breakdowns are and how easy it is to go like when i'm watching running backs now and this is a good segue we're getting

in the running backs we're doing a positional series okay and i should mention before we transition Thursday is the mock draft. We're not talking about schedule, but Thursday's a block. Post the first wave and the count the countdown two and the first wave of free agency. My goodness, we know a whole lot more now, right? And the information is more. So Thursday is the mock draft. If you want to get the McShay report and actually get the full mock draft, it's at your disposal.

Google the McShay report. That's going to be Thursday. That'll be Thursday show. But we are like, we are in the weeds right now. I don't even have time for this shit. Okay. running backs. The beauty is now, it's like, all right, I'm going to PFF and I'm able to cut up with our relationship with, you know, our game tape. And the way that it all marries, I can go watch the key plays for past protection.

Go watch the key plays in the receiving game. Then go watch all the, all the plays in the run game and get through more tape more efficiently. And that's what when we talked to Matt Casario, he said it's the number one thing that's changed in scouting is the efficiency of tape study. And that allows me to free up 10 minutes to stop down, clip a few plays, and to provide these things on Instagram and Twitter that I've done in years past, but I've been so limited that it's like I've got to do one play. Now I can like stack them. So these running backs. And we're going to do this positional position group series.

We're starting with running backs. Historically one of the, we're talking about one of the best groups of all time. I want to start with this, though. I always argue when people say, well, the running backs are down, the running back positions down. The running back position's up. It's trending this way. It's cyclical.

Like, of course, you know, five, six years without the running back. Now, the reason things are cyclical in the NFL and the reason why we're seeing an uptick in my estimation and the estimation of a lot of people in the league. The reason we saw a dip was because of the, like the unbelievable. It's almost, how do I put this? In life, I think you notice that thing, there'll be trends. whether it's political, business, any aspect in life. We have a tenure. Dating.

I talked about dating. We have a tendency to go from one extreme to another because we got too much of that extreme. Well, in football, it's not all that different because what happens is all of a sudden, tempo was happening in college. And we weren't having, and more importantly, spread and creating ways to get guys who are playmakers, the ball in space. And so it went from this ground and pound and Norris division, three yards in a cloud of dust to, oh, there's ways to get the ball in space and supplement the run game. And my running back doesn't have to be 30, 35 carries a game.

They don't have to look like Derek Henry for us to be successful, right? And so that happened for a long time. And there's still absolutely a critical part of our game. But I always go back to just because it's a funny anecdote. And we're going to get Kiper on pretty soon. I've actually, I'm supposed to call, I got to call him back. We keep trading calls. One of my favorite, and I would have murdered him if I was on ESPN,

but when he said, we just have to ban cover two in the NFL. It's insane. Of course, it's insane. But his point, I don't know what his overarching point or the seriousness level of that comment, but his point was, we're seeing all these great quarterbacks be limited to check, check down Charlies and all that stuff. And so how do you, so now that the league with all, we have gotten, So far one way with the passing game and spreads and all that.

The only way to defeat it as a defensive coordinator is we've got to play a lot of cover two shells, two high safeties, protect ourselves with the vertical, make them drive down the field without making a mistake, all those things, right? So now the running back becomes more value because the best way to beat a team that's dropped off and can I tell my 10 year old son this right now. And I'm not one of those lunatic dads, but he just wants he's curious about like, what are you looking for? and how like if they got two safeties high and your quarterback's at the line screaming about something, he's probably checking do a run because that means you got a smaller or, you know, a lesser box. Yeah. And so running backs are now coming back and becoming more important. Right.

You want to take you, you want to use that big play receiver in the outside. You want to get them out of a too high look. That was the first thing I said. If you, you don't want to ban too high looks. Like if you want to get them out of it, start running the ball. You would get, get heavy boxes. What's them to drop a safety into the box and then the receiver is going to get more single coverage on the outside. But what doesn't change, Munch, is if talent is their talent gets drafted.

Agree with this. So we were in the weeds in 2017 of spreads and up-tempo and passing. Right? Yep. And the most running backs ever, I think it's had for at least in two decades, whatever it was, were drafted in 2017. And everyone's comparing this class, and let's throw up that graphic, Tucker. Everyone's comparing this class to 2017.

So it's kind of a convergence of two things. yes, running back is starting to become more in vogue as we've got to have guys who are difference-making or at the running-back position who can help us counter all this cover-two shit that we're seeing in the defenses. It's driving us crazy. We want to go deep, but we can't. So we've got to have a back who's a difference-maker. And this class is absolutely loaded.

And if it was in 2017, we'd be saying the same thing. It doesn't matter if running back is being devalued. That was the word we talked about over and over again, devalued. They're still going to come off the board. Now, the difference is they may come off the board a little earlier this year. And I want you to look, if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, the video, we've got this graphic here. Tucker does an amazing job of all of my crazy thoughts. And I send them texts all hours of the day.

But on the left hand side, it's our top 18 running backs that we're focusing on the first four rounds of the draft. Those are guys that have grades, anything 60 above. We don't view the grade necessarily as round, but it typically equates to where the round they're going. Okay. 60 and above, starting with Ashton Genty, down to Omaran Hampton, number two, the two Ohio State running backs, Henderson Judkins, Caleb Johnson, Iowa, Cameron Scataboo, and a whole bunch of other names that we'll get into in this show today.

But the reason we're putting this up is the comparison and the three-year average. I've talked to you about the Bill Belichick. If you want to, like, go back three years, don't go back five. Three years will give you a feel if you're setting your board and trying to figure out where to draft. And while you can argue with Bill Belichick and the players he'd, picked sometimes in certain positions of struggles they had in New England, you can't argue with his draft management and understanding the board and where guys are going to come off the board.

So I put this up for you. Look at this year's class, Munch. In the first four rounds, we have grades equivalent to 18 prospects coming off the board. There were 15 in 2017. We're talking about arguably what most people would argue, the best running back class in the history of the draft. And yeah, you can go back. there was 2019, 2011, there were 29 guys drafted, but only one first rounder.

You can go back old school when everything we were talking about, the ground and pound and there were 30 drafted in that 1998 class with Curtis Enis and Fred Taylor and Robert Edwards and John Avery and John Ritchie and blah, but when you look at this year's group, the 2008 class is pretty good, man. That one might be, yeah. Okay, but anyway, I'm saying, we're stacking this with the historical. historic groups and this group. They're right up there, man. Better. They're in the conversation. Yeah. It's in the conversation. What they turn out to be in the NFL, time will tell.

The situations they're in, health, all those things. From a prospect standpoint, it's like eight guys in the eight guys more in the first four rounds could come off the board than the three year average. And three or five, I forget what it was. More, or three more guys than that historic 2017 class. So with all of the. that as kind of the backdrop. The reasons why running backs are becoming more value. The devalue era is over. The reason why this group is as good as it is, it all comes down to the talent. I broke it up into tears.

I want to look at it real quickly before we start getting into these, okay? And again, these are my rankings. These are my rankings that you'll see in the McShea report. Mench has his own rankings. He's a tough guy now. He's doing his own thing. He's all groans up. No.

But Mention's got his own. rankings, but that actually makes for great conversation here. We used to fight behind the scenes. Now we can do it in front of all of you. Here are my tiers, Mesh. And I'm curious to get a quick comment on this and then let's get into the actual players. Tier one, Jinty and Hampton. Tier two.

And this one's tough because I could almost break it into two. And I'm excited to get to these guys because I've got some stuff for you. Trayvion, Henderson, Quinshon Judkins, Caleb Johnson, Cameron Scataboo. Tier three. These are guys we're talking about probably in the third round range. RJ Harvey, Central Florida, Tennessee's Dylan Sampson, DJ Giddins, Kansas State, who I know we both really like, and Jordan James from Oregon. Then there's tier four talking like late third into the fourth round,

talking about Breschard Smith, former wide receiver, Miami to SMU, Ashul Tutin who lit the combine on fire out of Virginia Tech, a grinder Damien Martinez from Miami, Devon Neal, we both love from Kansas. Lequin Allen, who's a tall, big looks apart, not a great runner, but a great receiver, Trevor E.TN, Georgia, Jaden Blues, Burner, and Marcus Yarner,

burner from Texas and Delaware, respect. Those are my tears. Anything jump out right away before we get into the menu show of all this? I don't hate them. And I kind of like the way you describe that second tier. You could maybe go Anderson Jenkins and then John. Johnson Scataboo, but they're all in that same conversation.

There's it, I like where you split him, but there's a little bit of bleeding there, right? You could, I think Henderson is maybe, man, Tramiel, Henderson, I've fallen in a love of. Let's get it. So there's a little bit of bleeding there. The other guy I will say, because you would talk about that, I think, we'll talk about it. But RJ Harvey, I think, is a guy that maybe sneaks into that. Yeah, a little bleeder. There's just a bleeding there, but I don't hate where you put the lines.

All right. Last thing before we dive in, and we're going to separate into three groups. It's going to be the six blue chip prospects, and I want to go through evaluations and dive into them. Then there's 10 versatile scat-back types. We're going to have to keep pacing today. I'm sorry if I'm talking fast, but it's the only way we're going to get this in. You're not going to get a lot of my scheduling talk and all that stuff. Tucker just sent me a 30-minute mark thing.

He's keeping me on pace too. And then the final group when we get into these evaluations, early down power-based backs, okay? But I do think it's important for our audience. Who are the teams drafting these guys? and I want to put up a I don't even know if we have the list but but um it's changed dramatically from free agency as you would expect I look at the Browns picks two and 33 in the first two rounds they ain't picking a running back at two 33 potentially or early in the rounds three or four Patriots ain't picking one at four probably not even at 38 but rounds three and four good chance

Bears, is it Ashton Jinty there at 10? Is it Omarian Hampton? They're going to go tight end. It's still offensive line. But the Bears also pick at 39 and 41. Then the Broncos, they lost Javante Williams, still have Audric Estime and Jolil McLaughlin,

but I think they're up there in terms of the team that needs a running back most. They pick at 20 and 51. Then I would say some other teams, not as pressing because of things that happen in free agency. the Raiders they now get Rahim Moster but he's not going to be your every down guys sincere McCormick they lost Amir Abdullah Alex Madison Steelers pick 21 don't have a second round pick because the DK it's not as pressing a knee but I'm talking like third fourth round

they added Kenneth Gainwell with Jalen Warren 49ers my gosh they have a lot of needs but I do think later on they lost Jordan Mason so they're going to need a backup to Christian McCaffrey, who from time to time, we'll miss some games. So that's that. Let's get into what's put up the graphic. We've got six guys, in my opinion, who are blue chip prospects, and by that I mean every down future NFL RBs. Okay.

I mentioned the names. Jinty, Hampton, Ohio State's Henderson and Judkins, Iowa's Caleb Johnson, Arizona's Cameron Scatabo. I'll let you start on Ashton Ginty, and I want to do this as we go through all of them, and I think with Ginty for a minute on historically. I'll get back to historically on Jet Depot. As we go through all of these, I want people to understand. This is like 12 months of tape.

This is breaking down every aspect of their game from past protection to receiving to their run skills and traits. This is combining that with the analytics, the workouts at the combine, conversations with teams in the league about character, medical for durability purposes, everything. When I tell you last night, when I finish up, those players, they're done. Now, barring some medical issues I wasn't aware of,

some character issues I wasn't aware of, maybe a pro day here where something alarming comes out, like maybe there's a slight ship, but like the evaluation's done, these rankings are set in my mind. This is it. This goes to press. Okay? And I want in there, as we go through it, unique traits, some weaknesses for all of them,

fits in terms of running schemes and zone, gap, all that. Comps, if we've got them, shades of, whatever people are calling it now, which I actually like more than NFL comps. And projected round for all these guys. Ashton Genty, I've done enough talking. You take the floor. What does your tape tell you? I love to talk about superpowers with players, right?

And his superpower is his ability to break tackles. I mean, he is. No one's impossible to tackle. But man, it's tough to get him on the ground. The contact balance, the way he's built, he's not a big back. I think he's 209. But the way he's built, he's built low to the ground. His lower body strength is impressive, how hard he runs.

To me, that's his superpower, but not far behind. And I know you talked about this on X a little bit are the instincts, the vision, the patience, the instincts, understanding how to hit the hole, where that hole is going to open up. So those two things when you add them together are impressive. I know he didn't run at the combine. Don't care. He's plenty of fast enough.

He's plenty of explosive enough. I want to get into that a little bit more as we have this conversation about speed and backs. But, man, almost impossible to tackle. Great vision, great instincts. Makes guys miss. Runs hard. As a runner, I'm not sure as much as much you could ask for. And then as a receiver, I mean, now you're getting him in space and you're trying to tackle him in space.

It's hard enough to do it between the tackles with a loaded box. Now you got this guy in the open field. Good luck. Just good luck. He deserves all of the praise that he's gotten. And I think he has, you know, I'm not a big proponent of drafting running back to the first round, let alone early. He deserves to be drafted early. You know one thing that I think gets overlooked sometimes with Ashton Genty?

And sometimes like these elite backs because it's so easy to be enamored with. And it's, yes, it's a superpower, the breaking of tackles and making guys miss in those things. His vision is so freaking good. Like his ability, I put up a clip yesterday on, on Instagram and X, his ability to sense a crease backside when the offensive line's flowing. And then, and to sense it, like most back. yeah, we're flowing to the left. There's probably going to be a backside crease.

Got it. But then to marry his feet and to do it so seamlessly, it's like, it's like watching. Like, it's like art. Like I'm amazed at how, like, how, how, how were they able to take this piece of paper and some freaking pencils and turn it into that beauty? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I do. I get it.

And then, and then on top of the vision, like, it's hard to explain. But I, it's one thing to have vision. and try to get there because you know where you want to get. It's another than to be able to marry it with feet and body control that are so good that you're on a rail. And to shave the edges the way he shaves him, there's no waste of movement. There's no false steps. It's like watching a race car.

And it's like at the track with like a professional driver behind it, but doing stunts, you know? That to me with that kind of power, guys, you have that kind of power. Guys are usually a little bit tighter than that. that and he's not he i mean he can change he's really fluid changing directions yeah good do you have concerns i know you talk about the past protection it's not good bud it's not got ran over a couple times and and i think he can get there he'll put his face in the fire he'll he'll fight to protect but more often than not at this point he just fails to execute shorter frame you know he has the explosive lower body but like it just gets him into that shorter frame i think gets him into trouble something like play 42

versus georgia southern play 39 versus Oregon yep there are plays where you're like oh i don't even know what the best technique in the world like he's going to have to get crafty you know what i mean yeah now you're handing the ball a ton you can throw something else i'll talk about yeah we'll get there you throw him the ball a bunch um but But it's no prospect is perfect. And that is an area that he's going to have to improve on. Let's put it that way. I do like him a lot in the passing game.

Yeah. I don't think he's elite elite, but I see shades of Alvin Kamara and shades of Sequin Barkley in like what his role, like a lot of screens, outlets, dumps. He led the FBS and receiving yards for running back last year. Not last year, 20, 23, sorry. I have no trouble projecting him as an asset. And I think, honest to God, like he is going to be an absolute weapon in the passing game. But it's not going to be in this wide ranging catalog of routes and different things.

It's going to be the standard stuff creatively done to get him with a little bit of a runway, get him on the move with a little bit of space. Because once you do that, he is a terror to bring down. Now, you referenced it. Tread and ball security are two things that I throw in as like an additive at the end that I'm always checking on with all these. guys in 2004 he had four fumbles on 3998 touches that's a 1.0% i like my backs at like 0.5 or or better in terms of percentage now that every every fumble has a story all that stuff but you knew historically speaking that 1% or higher has always been concerning and tends to be something that um that you know transitions the next level but the much bigger concern that's like

not a nitpick it's something like it's there part of the evaluation the much bigger concern is 831 offensive touches in three seasons can you at three he had 375 this year you know who had the last back to have that many carries in a in a season i'll give you it it was 395 and it was 10 years ago one of any guesses um Wisconsin back nope Derek Henry who weighs 247 pounds. Yeah, Genties, we should have started with that. 508, 4, 58 and a half, 211 pounds. 211 pounds. So, yeah. I mean, Derek Henry, 247 pounds. The back hasn't had that many carries 10 years. I'm worried about it. Now, all that said, we're just, this is part of the conversation. Listen, we're not saying that we don't like Gentie. This is just where this is the entire story of

this project. He's absolutely special. Still taking them early, man. Still would take him early. Very. We just not living. We don't live. We're never going to do that. We're never going to be like, someone's perfect or whatever. This is the entire picture of the player. Show me the path to how he succeeds. Tell me if he fails. How's he going to fail? Right.

Right. We talk about that all the time. General managers want to know those two things. That's like the jumping off point. He's so much fun to watch. All right. Let's keep it moving. So that's Genty.

Clearly, number one, top back in this class. Omari and Hampton. I'll give you a couple of my notes and I want you to take it from here. I adore him. Yeah, because my guy, he stole him. I did. I did. I got a 92 graded.

511 and a half, 5.11, 3 quarters, 221 pounds, ran a 4-4-6 40-yard dash, okay? Yeah. Also, 96 percentile and explosion score in jumping drills. 38-inch vertical 10-10 broad jump. Okay? He's a downhill runner, unique blend, size, power, agility, contact balance. his forward lean listen to me here his forward lean like natural forward lean as a runner combined with his acceleration power and ability to run behind his pads is unique a one yard gain is four

a three yard loss is is back to the line of scrimmage a four yard gain that's been blocked up it's probably like 12 to 15 i think he's so impressively light on his feet for that size 221 pounds 5-11, three-quarters, you know? You normally don't get, and he caught 67 passes the last two seasons, 96 percentile in missed tackles force as a receiver. So he's not just like an out. Yes. Yeah, he is dangerous.

They're like good. They'll make the first guy miss. He's a threat after the catch. Plus, we talk about ball security, tread. 601 offensive touches the last two seasons, 695, not ideal. but still 140, you know, 130 plus fewer than, um, than, than Genty. And he's 220 pounds. And he's 221 pounds.

And ball security's improved. He had five fumbles in the first two seasons, just one on 320 touches last season. So I, how about this for a comp or shades of Joe Mixing? I've been saying, you know, if you know how's been listening to me when we've been doing this? I rarely listen to you when you talk in the show. I've been saying Joe Mixing for months. Have you? I'm pretty sure he said Joe.

I was a proud to tell you that. I felt really good about it. He didn't put up the same numbers as Mixing in the passing game. Maybe he's not as much of a weapon as Mixon was at Oklahoma in the passing game. He absolutely is. When you see him after the catch, he absolutely is. Their testing numbers are very similar. I love that cop.

And the reason I really love it is because I came up with it first. Also, don't make fun of me. Like, I can't believe this. I'm going to say this. Something I noticed about it on tape, and I was really having a hard time describing it. All right. You ever play Red Rover when you were a kid?

It was Red Rover. Red Rover sent one over and you had your arms linked like this and people ran through it. He will go through the line of scrimmage and know how defensive line will like one gap and try to reach out. He runs right through those. He's behind his pads. He's so explosive. He just, I mean, you cannot arm tackle him.

You just can't do it. You got to square him up. You've got to go low. Even then sometimes, man, I love backs when you see them running and they, guys get into their quads and it's not good enough, man. You've got to go lower than the quad to get him on the ground. Guys will just bounce off his quads. It's crazy, how powerful he is.

And then you throw that burst in there. It's, yeah, it's easy to get excited about his tape. I don't know if we built a graphic or not, but I do think it's interesting. There are, and I'm not saying they're both going in the top 12, okay? But I've got grades equivalent, and I think I haven't ranked in the top 12. Running backs. Oh, I do. I definitely do, yeah.

Yeah, running backs in the last decade who have been drafted in the top 12. You ready? Bejohn Robinson in 2023, pick eight overall to the Falcons from Texas. 2023 as well, Jemir Gibbs, just a couple years back from to the Lions from Alabama and Georgia Tech previously. Sequin Barkley in 2018. Giants from Penn State, number two overall pick that year. 2017, we talked about that historic draft, Leonard Fournett and Christian McCaffrey, at picks four and eight respectively, Fournette from LSU,

McCaffrey from Stanford, both know they went to the Jaguards and the Panthers, respectively. And then the next guy, the sixth on the list, six guys in the last decade have been drafted in the top 12, only six. Yeah. Zeke Elliott from the Cowboys to the Cowboys from Ohio State. number four overall in 2016. I'm not sitting here asking you to rank them like we would. Where do the quarterbacks going last year's draft?

But I think they're better than some of those guys if I'm going back and remembering them as prospects. I like them more. I like them both more. I'll be honest than I did Jemir Gibbs and I love Jemir Gibbs, but I also envision. You love Jemir. I say, I see Trevion Henderson as the, as the Gibbs of this class. I don't think either's as talented as Sequin coming out. I think there's an argument.

I think there's an argument. I would argue Ginty slightly more than Bijan, maybe Bejohn slightly more than Henderson, but they're in the same neighborhood. McAfree didn't, McAfee, remember he had that tough last year, the durability. stuff. There was a reason, but he fell to eight. That was it. Leonard Fournett. I, I love Leonard Fournette, but I saw how it could fail. I really did. He needed a runway. He was, you know, he's a little tighter. Yep. And I, I liked Zeke a lot, but I think these guys might be better than Zeke. All right. They're not, they're not better than Barclay or McCaffrey. Sorry, I can't go there.

They might be in the conversation with the cavalry, but I really don't think they are. I think I don't either, but yeah, I don't either. I think they're different. But I think you start there, and I think Bejohn's in the mix. I think the Jaguars overdrafted Four Nett, but anyway. Yeah, and I think that, I think that Bejon's in the mix with Genty and Hampton, but everyone else is behind. So, I mean, at worst, their fourth on that list, four and five on that list. All right, let's turn on the page to two guys that it's like, you know, you hear sometimes

spouses like fall more in love. Mm-hmm. You know, like there's a point in there, maybe the kids left the house or, you know, you saw your beautiful wife have a child or whatever it would be. Well, my fall more in love moment was when I went back to the tape. And I would say 10% of it was knowing I had like the exact numbers from the combine to back up and to look at it through a little bit different lens. But I'd be lying if I told you that that was like a big part of it.

It wasn't. It kind of confirmed. I'm like, oh, that makes sense now. I fell more in love with Trayvion Henderson and you can love both. That's the other thing. Yeah, it's okay. You can love both. I'm not, I'm not talking about like, you know, this isn't polygamy, but you can love both.

And I do. Mm-hmm. Take me through what you got on Trayvion because I know, I know. Listen, I didn't love, I, I will freely admit I did not love Pevion and Henderson coming off 2023. I thought he was an explosive runner, and that was his thing. I thought he was kind of a one-trick-boning, and he has done nothing but shut me up over the last 12 months.

He is, he's every bit of that explosive runner. I think his vision and patience improved this year. I think his toughness got better. I mean, he, like in my notes, he runs angry. He's not a big back, but he runs mad. He, one of my favorite things about him, just to get into this a little bit, I love his technique in Passboro, the way he squares up, the way he steps. up the way he identifies assignments.

When running backs are asked to chip defensive linemen, you'll see this. Basically what they're trying to do is when you chip, you kind of lower your shoulder into an edge or a defensive tackle and try to get them to play onto the offensive tackle. You know, you just kind of bump them. Trayvon Henderson chips with bad intentions, and it kind of tells you about what his mentality is as a football player. He had an inside release against Michigan, and Mason Graham's hooked up with one of the Ohio State Interior Offensive Lyman.

And Trave-Degg-Henderson comes through and knocks Mason Graham on his ass. And you can see Graham get up and look like, who the hell was that? And he does it in other games. It wasn't the only time he did it. And you're like, oh, what's the big deal with that? Whatever. You know, this guy's already engaged with an offensive line. I get it.

It speaks to his mentality as a football player. It speaks to who he is as a football player. He plays with an edge. I thought he had a great year. he tested well you talk about a guy that can make plays in space he might be the best receiver i think in this class i really believe that i think he's a little bit better at tracking balls downfield than a lot of other guys in this class i agree i think he's he's really good after the catch maybe you know there might be some or better than him but when you put the whole package together about

how this guy pass blocks how he how he gets open how he tracks the ball i mean he's a three-down player in my opinion. He reminds me a little bit of Zeke where it's like I almost think he's a better run blocker than past protector at this point, but but the, but the whole thing is it's a mentality. It's a nastiness. It's a toughness. It's a I'm going to impose my will. I'm, and I've watched I'm telling you, this is one of the best running back classes in the history of the NFL draft. there's a lot of these running backs who are phenomenal runners and receivers and difference makers and yards gainers that aren't even blocked there's a lot of running backs in this class that suck in pass pro i was shocked going through the cutups bad good players big big and small by the way

shout out the pf for those cutouts it's made the biggest difference in this area i watch every blocking rep for these running backs. You can rip right through them. Yeah. Whereas before when you're watching three or four games, a guy can kind of hide. Yeah. Oh, he got seven, eight reps or ten reps in these four games and he did okay. And you think he's all right. And I actually thought earlier in the process that some of these guys were a little better than they were. And then you start watching the all of the clips. And you're like, oh, man, we got some work to do here. I'll say this. And it was, I've, I've held this. I don't know, I don't know if you were in the room with us that time.

but Kevin Whiteau, he worked with us for a long time as his older brother, Andy Whiteau was with the Ravens and the Eagles and now with the Steelers. I believe he's, he's assistant general manager

and director of scouting for the Steelers. I think is his exact title. Great guy. Great. Not great, like beyond great at what he does. Like truly.

Old Villanova Center. Yeah. I'll never forget. He walked in the room and I know it was me and Kevin and we're sitting there. But right now notes, I think one of us is typing.

and the other ones right now. And it's like, we're on play like 10 or 12 in a guy. We're trying to like get through a bunch of players. We're at the combine. And he's like, put down the, put down the pen.

Put the computer. Close the computer. Kevin. Right. Watch a, watch a game first. And it always stuck with me. And so I always,

I try to watch like 20, 30 plays before I start to jot down. Because you think he's got, and you're like, I better write that down now. It's like, if you sit back and you actually want, and this is good advice to anyone who's,

young trying to get into scouting or evaluate. Sit back and let like, have some music on the background. Sit back and watch. Take it in. You're going to get a feel. And it's almost like watching the like an orchestra or a ballet after, like you, you see the whole picture. And the thing with Trevianas, I was doing that with my pen down, my computer away.

His, like, his ability to get to that second gear, he's got that little dance and he can make guys missing the back but like his feet are so damn quick right yeah and and if you don't if you don't slow him down and even if you do he's gonna but if you don't slow him down this guy is a menace right and then we talked about the past protection zero fumbles on 171 touches this last year one fumble on 666 career touches so he's not going to fumble the ball he catches the ball beautifully he's a huge threat when he gets the ball on the passing game he's going to pass pro for you i don't need to get him 30 touches a game to get my money out of him i need to get him 15 smart touches yeah and i get you and i get him your house a screen pass

he's going to house a screen pass at the end of the first half and change the complexion of a game for you now i got your mirror gibbs on my hands yeah and look what jimier gibbs did to that offense. I reluctantly give you credit for that cop. It's a good comp. And then we switch over to put you on Judkins. Different player, but same music on in the background. Okay.

Travion Henderson's 510-202 with all these explosive numbers, right? And the jumps and the, and the, one, five, two, 10 yards split, tied for fifth and all the running backs in the class, but just like one-one-hundredth of a second off of tied for second. second and three one hundredths of a second off of bashootin who had the fastest okay who's a track star and runs decades or generations in his family but i'm watching quinchon judkins at 221 pounds same as we talk almost identical 5115 omari and hampton was 5116 221 hampton was 221 okay Hampton's a little faster top end i think what was he 4 4 4 6 yeah 4 4 4 6 yeah 4 4 4 6

Juddkins 4-4-8. Yep. Sub-five guys at that size. What are we talking about? But here's the thing I noticed on tape. And I had to go back and look because I couldn't remember, was it Henderson or Judkins who ran the unbelievably fast 10-yard split? And I'm watching, and Henderson is, like, and I watched Henderson before I watched

Juddkins like the acceleration, all that, right? But then I'm watching Judkins at 221. I got to remind him myself, he's, you know, he's 19, almost 20 pounds bigger than Henderson and I think his acceleration what go back and watch his tape put on some good music sit back put your computer down but just did yep one five one was set tied for second in this record setting remember this is the fastest running back class in the history of the NFL combine record setting 448 was the average he was a second tied for the second fastest of all the running backs with that 151 at 221 pounds who cares thought it's just it's a 10 yard

split. But the tape is like over and over again. I don't know that there's a guy in this class whose play speed from the second the ball snap to when he's through the line of scrimmage is faster than him. So it's the power. It's the toughness. It's the vision. But I'm telling you, like Josh Jacobs, that kind of explosiveness to and through the hole, reaches top speed and an absolute flash. Equally adept gap and zone blocking schemes. Pass pro, same stuff I'm writing down. Yeah.

For Henderson, I'm writing down for Judkins. Like, their fire burns so freaking deep. Watching them block for each other and for Will Howard, if you love this game, it almost like brings tears to your eyes. You get goosebumps. That's what it's all fucking about. Right. That's what it's about.

We're a team. We're trying to win football games. And they're out there, first round draft picks, NIL deals for a million, two million dollars, all this stuff. But at the end of the day, they're asked to go run block for their quarterback or for each other. And that is the most important down of their game, man. And the guys can catch the ball, Henderson better than Judkins. God, I got so excited. Sorry, Lisa.

That stuff is really mad at me. Gosh, gosh. I apologize. The Lord's name in vain. I'm not allowed to say, and I apologize for that. But like it, I don't know, man. There's just, there's not many guys that can provide that kind of quality, the traits and the running ability and the catching and the block,

but like, but have that fire burning that deep. And when you get an opportunity to get one of those guys, don't pass it up if it makes any sort of sense for your organization. It's important for two reasons. One, you put a guy in a competitive situation, how is it going to react? Because I'm telling you right now, when you get in an NFL position room, you're never going to be in a more competitive situation. Those guys are fighting for their livelihoods every single day.

Some guys get put in those rooms and they have all the talent in the world, but they don't shine because they don't know how to deal with that competitiveness. And other guys get in there and it brings out the best of them. And Travion Henderson was like, you want to sign Quinshaunson-Junkins? You want to bring him here to Ohio State? Yes. Go ahead. Bring him in here.

And not in bad. And Judkins was like, like. And Jenkins was like, yeah, that money's good. I can get good money at Ole Miss. And I got Jackson Dart and I get Kiffitt. We just brought it a bunch. But I want to go compete with him. But in a way that we're going to bring out the best in each other,

not in a way that I'm going to show you. It's in a way that's going to bring about the best of them. And the second thing is obvious. When you get into a big moment in a game, when you get into a hard moment in your season, which I think Ohio State shows is a great example of Ohio State this year, both in terms of the loss of Michigan and how they responded. And then Henderson's, you know, screen pass,

I think is a great example. Those guys step up at critical moments in your season. They step out in critical moments in your game. It's an important part of the evaluation. And it's also a difficult one to assess. So I think that stuff matters if people are like, oh, why, like, he's great. Everyone's competes. Everyone's, it's not the same.

It's not the same for every prospect. And if you're looking just from a practical standpoint and you need a guy who's going to be your featured back, 5.3 yards per carry versus loaded eight-man boxes. third in the class, third in the entire class, Quintan Judkins. And looking for a big physical back. Yeah, he's providing all those, but you need a big physical back who's going to pick up those yards for.

You keep the chains moving. Only 14% of his runs were stuffed, line of scrimmage or behind. That's fifth in the entire class. So you're getting what you expect out of a 221 back, but you're also getting a lot more. All right. I don't care that we took the time up.

on the Ohio State guys because I think we both are deeply passionate about what we saw. I'm going to start with this. The next two guys on our list, Caleb Johnson, Cameron Scataboo. I'm going to give you a blanket statement, and it's one I, it pains me to say, and you take it where you want to go with these guys. I'll let you lead the charge. I can't wait for this. This seems loaded.

Here we go. Caleb Johnson's been my guy. I've been pounding the table. I loved his tape. I love a lot of things about him. When you go back and stack them and you start, and I purposely go through, I start with Chinty,

start with Hampton. I want to see, now I'm watching the Nett, Jutkins, and I'm watching Henderson, reverse order. Then I'm watching Caleb Johnson. And it's almost like,

huh, there's a difference. Mm-hmm. It's like being in the house where it's like a beautiful day and the breeze coming in feels so, good, right? And it's lovely and everything's good. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I was starting to get a little cold in there. I'm going to put the windows down. I'm cooling

just a little bit. Still lovely to have the windows open, but I'm cooling just a little bit on Caleb Johnson. And I'll get into some more detail. I think that, I think that dude was blocked up pretty good. And I'm warming on Camp Scataboo. Okay. Grindr. Like, I was, I just, I watched his games. I watched his tape. But now when I'm watching, I'm stacking these guys, I'm like, huh, he's a little different.

He's, I don't know. Where are you and those two guys? Trust your initial instinct with Johnson. I'm with that. I didn't, I mean, I thought he was going to run better at the combine. I think it was a four, five, seven, something like that. Yep. Not terrible.

Six one, two, two, let's play it out. Caleb Johnson. 6-1, excuse me, 224 pounds, ran a 457, which seems terrible when you saw the four-threes and a bunch of four-fours and the class that ran four-fours on average. I know, I'm just saying, I'm just- I'm not even, not to you, whoever's listening, get those, those, the four-five numbers for running back, I am a-okay with. He had 500-8 carries for 2,800 yards, essentially, six in Iowa history, just 29 catch-and- in three seasons. That's the backdrop on Caleb Johnson. Also, we talked about that 151-152 split for Judkins

and Henderson, respectively. His was 162, which tied another one of my favorite backs on tape, Jordan James from Oregon for the worst among running backs at the combat. And then Scataboo, I'll just rip it out out, five, nine and a half, so shorter, but I don't mind shorter backs. 219, which makes 219 on that frame is a lot bigger. than 224 on 6-1. Did not run at the combine. Did good job on the vertical on the jumps. Show the explosive 39.5 inch vertical tied for second.

Great job, I should say, in 10-3 broad jump, tied for second with the vertical. So the lower body explosiveness, as you would imagine, is there. So go ahead. I love them both. I love them both. I mean, for me, it's go back and trust the tape with Johnson. If you're a zone team, I think you have to have some interest in him. Maybe he slips a little bit.

I get it. But on day two, you can get a 221 back who just knows how to read his blocks, knows when to get north, south is very smooth. To me, I'm not worried about that time. We're going to talk about this more, I think, a little bit at the end here. I'm not worried about that time. I cannot stress that enough. He runs well.

That's not the reason. I think he's a great zone runner. I just think he is. Maybe he's blocked up well. I get that. And I'm not saying that he's blocked up really well, bud. Listen, so all right, let's get into all of that then. Some of these guys, the level of competition is not the same as the other level of competition that other guys faced.

You know, like, we can get into all of these little things. He made the most of what he got. He is smooth. He is instinctive. He is big. He is powerful. I think he runs better on tape than he ran on the track. Again, we're, I had Caleb Johnson as my number three back.

And now he's, he's definitely behind. he's probably six so it's not that I haven't moved him down I haven't moved him down I've definitely moved him down a little bit so I acknowledge all of that but to say like how far you're going with him

no no I still have him as number five running back okay I still got him ahead of scatabo and I'm good but but like but it went from this if you're watching on you like the gap was here and now it's like they're like touching each other Yeah, I agree with that.

That's fine by me. I don't know. I came away like, I don't know. I mean, I do know. I do know. You want me to tell you? Mm-hmm. He doesn't have great stop start.

No. And he's slowed. If you, if you can, if you can slow him down on that runway. And yeah, he's patient. He waits. He does all. His vision is outstanding. Like, I don't want people to think I don't like it.

Like his patience, he's under control. He's tem. poses runs beautifully you know like it was it lay beyond bell like you know that patient he's not that but like no he's not just he's not i'm not trying to say he is but like go those own guys zone blocking guys and he he was successful get in gap too but um but when you get him stopped he's not going to start back up okay he needs a little bit of a runway it needs to be like a coast to go okay um he's incredibly efficient but i I don't, but he doesn't generate as many on his own.

That's the thing. Scataboo generates more on his own. Okay. It's because one was blocked, had the blocking, it blocked up better. Gentie more on his own. Hampton more on his own. Okay. The two Ohio State guys create more yards on their own.

Then I get to pass protection. Kay, really uneven, concerning impasse pro. It's 224 pounds. He's not fast. He's not explosive. He's not like this huge danger. Yeah, you get some clips of him chunk runs, but they're blocked up well. And so his pass pro is not great.

And I trust him as a receiving outlet. I think he's a confident pass catcher. Transitions upfield relatively, like he's kind of smooth, but kind of limited experience and limited in terms of his upside because he doesn't have that explosive ability like gentie does. like Hampton does, like certainly Henderson does. I don't know. So I don't, I get, I get what we're doing here.

We're comparing the class and trying to rank where these guys are. He's a different back. I just think he's a day two home run all the time. I get all the things that you're saying. And I get, and I don't disagree with any of them. I just think when you look at his total package, his frame, his size, his ability to read, his instincts. I think he, again, plays faster than he ran.

I just think he's a home run. as a day two guy he's in this he's in these tears if you want to put scataboo ahead of him but keep him in the same tier um although i do think r j harvey is something we'll talk about too but you want to keep him in the same tier and move scadaboo ahead of that i'm fine i love scataboo talker we all love scataboo i mean he's just he's a warrior he is rugged he's awesome he's i mean just refuses to get tackled at times uh very good in the passing game the numbers speak for themselves the numbers that he put up uh this year All that's true.

Don't have a 40 time on him. And by the way, he's not expected to run at the big, big 12 pro day. So not super concerned. But I would like, I'd like to see a time. I'd love to see a time. With Scataboo, like, if you're looking for some concerns, yeah, the trend and the tires is really is concerned. Yeah. Some guys are, it's just not a thing.

No problem. Is he a great stop start guy too? I don't think he is. I don't mind him as much. I don't know, man. He doesn't need a runway. He heats up quickly. I'm reading my notes.

Downhill, power back doesn't need a runway. That was my first sentence. Doesn't need a runway. Heats up quickly. Gets a lot of momentum behind his pads in a short period of time. At his best between the tackles, but it's shown effective on the outside carries, too. Lighter on his feet than I ever give him credit for. Darts through creases.

Great job weaving his way in and out of traffic. And I put in all caps, well, always advancing the run. Power base is out. standing, rarely goes down on initial contact, and I mean rarely. Rarely. It wears down second and third level defenders. Relentless, absolute dog competitor with a ball in his hands. As a receiver, only two drops, 52 catchable targets in 2024.

Tough to bring down in the open field. Heats it up quickly. Pass bro, he's got to improve, just kind of gets in the way and launches right now. But my man was like the quarterback, the running back, the fold. the age. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he just, you know, like with more emphasis on that, I think he can improve. He's big. He's powerful. Needs technique work raw. But he's just like right now, he just kind gets in the way and launches. Yeah. Hoping for the best. I went with Javante Williams. Also more gifted Zach Moss, Damien Pierce types with Scadaboo. I think he's actually better than all those guys.

Yeah. I really like Javentine Williams. So I think that's, I mean, I like both of those guys. Again, I'm not, you're not going to find, I'm not going to have a lot of negative things to say about either one of those backs. And if you decide to move Scataboo ahead of Johnson, I'm fine with that. I don't, there's, I get what you're saying. That's it. I do. I just don't think my concern is where I'm coming from and maybe this is the wrong place is,

uh, I see that a little bit of a higher time and that, that's slower 10 yard split. And I think people might overreact and be like, he needs to go. And I'm not saying you're doing that. I just get defensive when I see those kind of things. And I'm like, come on, man. Like, it's not that. out of a time the tape speaks for itself it wasn't the it wasn't the speed stuff because i went in kind to look at but it was it was he i don't know he's slow he's slow to get started if you if you

slow him down i don't know i'm trying to find it now you're not alone one of our one of our listeners i can't find the message right now and i apologize one of our listeners reached out and i'm trying to find it i can't find it but he said the same thing about johnson he's like look man i wonder when you watch him if it's not the blocking more than it is more than it is the player. And so it's interesting that other people have seen it and have when I'm watching, when I'm watching in the fall and I'm watching Iowa guys and I'm watching against certain deep, I'm looking at the traits.

And now as I'm watching them literally spent four or five days of my life, like wake up in the morning watching, you know, we got done with a podcast on Wednesday, right to the tape Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, literally my life outside of three hours trying to unpack Shador Sanders and Cleveland Browns and like eating and sleeping was on these running backs and so when I when I'm like that hyper focus I'm watching all these guys I'm like I don't think Caleb Johnson maybe is as good as I thought he was and I think scataboo is better than I even thought he was I both both still I like I've got

second round grades on where you know they're going to be same page man same I just wanted I got to express that. All right. So now, Tucker. I apologize to the listener. I wish I had the name, but someone definitely reached out and said something about it already, which I thought was cool. All right.

We're through the top six, Munch. Yep. Was there something? Didn't you want to do something? I got a little exercise for you that me and my guy Tucker put together. A little player A, player B, comp, a little trivia. Let's see how you do, McShay, all right? Okay.

Yep. Player A. Oh, you're building graphics now. This is cute. I like this. Player A at his combine was 510.5, weighed 216 pounds, and he ran a 462. He rushed for 4,945 yards and 44 touchdowns in college. He averaged 5.6 yards per carry as a senior, and he caught 73 passes in college.

Player B, 5111, 213 pounds, ran a 458 at his combine, rushed for 4,3 yards, and 49. touchdowns, average 5.8 yards per carry as a senior, and caught 77 passes in college. What you got? I know who B is. Yeah, I knew you were to know who B was right away. Because it was one of a couple guys. I would say it could have been, it could have been Jordan James. I don't know the exact 40, but I'm very, I feel, because Jordan James is 205.

I remember that from going through the run backs. And Devin Neal is 213. And those numbers, the catches, the average, and the, yeah, that's Devin Neal. All right. Yep. The comp. My comp for Devin Neal was Tank Biggsby. I don't think that's not him.

I'll give you a hint. He led the NFL in rushing as a rookie. As a rookie. 4-6-2 tough one right yeah go ahead tell me

I'm not going to get it played at Toledo uh Kareem Hunt Kareem Hunt man I like that I like that look at that this is I because you

you tweeted this is what's funny too because one of our listeners came at me because you you were on X and you were like oh he's one of my favorite day three guys and I said you you meant to say day two yep And this guy came at me, he was like, bro, he ran like a 4-7, which immediately, immediately, like, got under my skin, you know?

Like, it's one of those things that's going to get under my skin. Didn't run a 4-7. He ran a 4-5-8. He ran faster than Kareem Hunt. I think they're very comparable, man. Very productive college. I don't mind that at all. Very, well, let's get into it.

Let's get into it. Yeah. Let's get into. I want to say this, too. Yeah, just to keep this in mind. Like, this is about the size speed stuff. Because all I heard about Y receivers the other day was, you people, you get so caught up. and this height, weight and speed, you people, okay?

Let me give you something else. Kyron, Kiron Williams was a fifth round pick of 2022. Horrible. It was one of my favorite backs in that entire class. 194 pounds. He ran a 4-6-5. You loved him, right? Loved him.

Didn't care about the number. Had a late, had a late second, early third on him, didn't care. And I kept saying to you guys, I don't care. He could run a 4-8. I just loved him. Third and rushing two years ago. Seventh and rushing last year. He has 26 rushing touchdowns.

I think 31 touchdowns. total in his last 28 games stop telling me about the height weight speed stuff i love talking about it when it's like backs up what we see on tape it's great but trust the tape right so just just this is one of i think i see devanil and you have 16 i'm losing my mind okay that's fine but i also i also have um jordan james who i'm about to get to in a minute who i fell back in love with them interesting fell back like don't care take you take your stuff and shove it take your 40s and shove it fell back in love with them so let's let's do this quickly because we got we got to keep pace we're already i don't know an hour and 10 minutes and almost an hour and 20 um so let's try to do this in about 15 20 minutes if we can

yep because who cares um let's go to the the shorter list the two guys that i think are early down powerbacks okay Tucker just threw that up for us but she'll tooting who was one of the toxic of Indianapolis at the Combine. As I mentioned, track star, all that, five, nine and a quarter, 206 pounds ran a four, three, two. Goodness. And all of his other numbers were sensational. And Damien Martinez.

These are guys to me that are in the conversation in the first four rounds. Okay. And Tutin's probably going to go a little bit earlier than maybe my tape evaluation, just because those numbers are hard to compete with. But I'll start. with Martinez and you tell me to pick and slide runner for Damien Martinez right 511 1 1 1st5-217 pounds ran a 451 powerful sudden the way he marries his eyes and patience to his footwork in tight spaces stands out i put in all caps what i like most about him his

senses the crease shows the lateral agility and the body control and then accelerates right right doesn't have a great second gear. I wrote that even before the combine. Four, five, one is not that bad at time, man. But what I did write in all caps was he like hits it hard and has pop in his pads. Just like there's something about his, it's like, you know, he's just different in terms of his pop. And the stats corroborate the, the case, if you will, four point four yards after contact. Second behind Gentie in this class. Only eight to eight point two percent of his runs were stuffed best in class. I said Judkins was really good.

His was like 14.7. This guy's only 8.2. That often, I mean, like, he's not going to lose yards for you. 6.7 yards per carry and runs between the tackle. Second, 37% of his runs gained a first down. Third among all this fact. In terms of best pure runners in this class, he's in the top 10 conversation. Pass pro is okay.

He's okay. He's big. He's powerful. He's tough. Definitely a plus guy in past pro, but he's going to have to grow and improve with his recognition, some of his technique stuff. Adequate outlet, swings, angles, checkdowns, all that stuff. Yeah.

I think it's an early down back. The pop he has. But Rico Dowdell is like, like, I don't know, this set, but not perfect. There's like some suddenness and power to his game that I just really like. I've always liked Martinez. I mean, he just runs hard. This is just, this is what we're, I mean, look, it's the depth of the class. I mean, you got him as a early day three guy.

I think a lot of other years, he's probably going earlier than that, but he might get pushed down because of all this. And then you get into Tooting a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's, I thought it was interesting that you put him as an early down power back. We're talking about a five, nine, two hundred six pound back who ran a four three, two. I don't think people on paper will see that. Yeah. But I get it when you watch the tape.

I get that he's a downhill guy, explosive power, built low to the ground, powerful dude. So I get why you have him there. Some of this stuff's tricky for me because I think how a guy is used and how a guy develops ends up a lot on where he is. I do like that you make the point of putting him here because of his running style now and the way he is on tape now. and he's not a bigger, like you look at Martinez

and you see a guy who's a powerback. The way, I mean, we saw him in Mobile and the way he carries his weight and he just looks like a big, powerful runner. I like that you have Tutin here, even though he doesn't look like that when you watch him on tape, that's his identity now. All right, let's flip over to the,

what do you want to call him? Scatbacks, versatile, change of pace, all those things. Guys that are not going to be your every down running back, probably, but some of them, will wind up being. So we're not, I'm not putting any, I'm not, you know, put him baby in the corner or putting anyone in a box that they, that they can't play their way out of. But these are guys that bring versatility that we're not talking about in the top six who you're dressed. If you're spending a first or second round pick on a running back, I would say, I would say absolutely

that Jemir Gibbs is the exception because it was so important to have that element and speed and explosiveness at that position in that offense. And they certainly do not regret that pick at all. And they get the last laugh. And I loved it at the time. But the vast majority, when you're spending first or second round capital on a running back, you want him to be a major feature part of your offense. And even though Gibbs is in a rotation, he is the major featured part of that offense at

the running back position. These guys, maybe they will be. but when you can get them in the third, fourth round range, they don't have to be. You're not relying on it. I'm going to give you four guys that I absolutely love at the top. And I struggle with it. Let's put it this way.

RJ Harvey, Central Florida, Dylan, Samson, Tennessee, Kansas State DJ Giddens, and Jordan James, Oregon. That's my bucket. Okay? That's my top tier of these guys who aren't in that top six. to be your couple that's my bucket and i love them i love that i agree with you except for neal but i remained my point there i love those four okay love those four rj harvey is electric

absolutely electric pick slide patience visions hit hits it hard team captain went through you know this this son of a gun he was a third string quarterback in virginia back in 2019 i didn't know this till i had looked it up transferred to ucf in 2020 i knew he registered there i didn't know he's playing quarterback quarterback played back up sparingly in 2020 set to be like the guy in 2020 finally after like transferring position changes all this 2021 it's his year acel tear misses the season does it in camp comes back in 2022 gets things rolling 118 carries 23 2024 absolute dog carried that program run first offense it ran through r j harvey Team captain guys rave about him, the leadership, well respected.

Cut 39 passes, average, listen, normally when you look up these averages, it's like 9 to 10. Right. Atverage 13 yards per catch. If you see 12 plus, man, you've got my attention. Yes, almost 3,000 yards rushing, 6.5 yards, 38 scores, tightly packed frame, excellent speed, ran a 4-4 flat at the combine. But I love the tape. The explosiveness, top seven results, vertical, broad job, all that stuff. The tape is so, so good.

Listen, imagine being point. I mean, that's it. Point of view, like you put on the VR goggles and you're a linebacker, and you're trying to defend a 5-8 running back who does a great job. He's patient. He hugs his blocks. And then he is like shot out of. of a cannon when he and he's got the by the way he's got the vertical the violent cuts he makes when he

bounces runs outside those late cuts that he makes where he steps towards the line of scrimmage and everyone starts flowing up and the next thing you know he's whoop out the back door or he's around the corner and he's gone he is so hard to locate the way he reads blocks and hugs those blocks at five foot eight and then you add that burst of all of a sudden he's got to see him and you're like you're as a lineback or even a safety you're trying to fill and you're like okay I'm here, he's gone. And he's out the door. He's gone.

It's just so difficult to defend. I think he's really close to being in that, that scataboo, that Caleb Johnson tier. And he's been your guy forever, man. And the more I watch him, the more I'm like, wow. Like, he's just, he's unique. And oh, he's played at UCF, who they play. Well, watch him against Florida. And I know he didn't have big numbers in that game.

Watch how he ran. Watch how he got to space. He's in another quick feet guy, another sifting through traffic, changing directions quickly, making guys missing the hole, making it very hard to get a clean hit on him in space. You talk about guys you went back and you watched again and you fall in love. Like he is right near the top of the list for me. So we have a similar experience. It's like this tour and affair, right? Yeah.

First of all, it's so fun to watch this entire class. It's like there's nights where you're like, oh, my God, I'm watching the safety. And I'm like, oh, you know, like, I get that he could play special teams and maybe have a carve out a role in a couple of years. And you're like, uh, and then you're watching these backs and you're like, I, you know, I wouldn't, I could throw out another tape or I, you know, I could keep going here. Like, this is pretty amazing what these kids are doing. Yeah, this back. It's like going to like chefs like nine course meals. And it's like, right, what's next?

All right. I'm done. I'm done. Like, that was amazing. I can't get better. And then the next one. So like my experience is I just got done with those six guys. And yeah, Caleb Johnson, I'm not quite.

as sure as I once was, but I still love him and Scataboo, God, I love him more than I, than I thought. Like, all right. So now let's get to this next tier and I watch R.J. Harvey and I'm like, I'm not so sure that he's not in that. Like, right. There's not a lot separating him from those guys. And so I'm like, all right. So RJ Harvey is clearly number seven, but I think he could be like, you know, it wouldn't shock me in three years if we say he's one of the top three or four

from this class. So then I get to Dylan Samson. I'm like, I know who this guy is. I've studied his tape. I watched it in the preseason. I watch it during the season. I know, And then I start watching it from this lens. Now I'm on the eighth running back. There's got to be a dip, right? Right. He's only 5-8. He's only 200 pounds.

He ran a 4-4-7. And it's pro-day, by the way, not at the Combine. He just recently ran 4-47. Good number, but not like, you know. I heard it might have been a little bit lower. There's like some conflicting reports, but yeah. When they track him on the field, by the way, according to, according to like when they track him on the field he is flying but i start to watch him again

through this lens with like at all the fresh in my mind and i'm like holy smokes he's downhill 340 of its carries were downhill versus 25 outside the last two years hits it and it's like again music on sit back put the pen down put the fold of the laptop weaving in and out like moguls like at fast pace that's the thing all these backs it's like it's either like you got the rj harvey's and the dj giddens who are like and then you got the then you got like the the mogul guys like but they're going downhill everything's advancing i really hope people are watching this on youtube i like and it's like how can this guy be now i'm like question like maybe he's even better than harvey you know like but that's the the experience dipping under contact

pin move here legs always churning. Mm-hmm. Against SEC teams like, 200 pounds against SEC competition. Offensive lines good, but it ain't that good against those defensive fronts. He's having to earn it a little bit more than Caleb Johnson's having to earn it. But he's not as big and he's not as, you know, and he's not, it's like, smooth of the, but like, and yeah, it gets creases because they spread the field out.

So I'm like trying to compute all these things and factors in. And I came out of it and I'm like, this son of a bitch is going to be the next Bucky Irving. That's something. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me. I loved to. 5-8, 5-8, nothing, 200 and nothing. Yeah, Bucky was small.

I don't know if people realized how small Bucky Irving was. And he didn't run as well, did he? But, like, still, I get it. I get it. That undersized back. He ran like a 4-5-5 or something. Yeah, yeah. That undersized back, you kind of wonder how he's going to make it in the NFL.

And then you watch Bucky Erbrose back. serving this year. You're like, damn, damn. He's everything he was in college. But then I put in DJ Giddens and he's six foot. He's two hundred and twelve pounds and he ran a four, four three at the combine. He had a 39 eight 39 and a half inch vertical second best 10 10 broad second best four three is the seventh fastest somehow usually that would be the fastest four four three and his tapes different his tapes different because every carry I saw had a had a lead back. And now he's reading a lead back and it's downhill,

but a quarter of his runs are outside, equally adept in both schemes, gap and zone. Okay. Pick and slide, 212 pounds of, right? It's a little bit more like Harvey,

but it's a bigger. It's a bigger Harvey. So there's more like spin moves in there and like, and it's not quite as, it's more like, right? Mm-hmm. And the suddenness and the quickness

and decisive, more explosive than Caleb Johnson. Like I'm starting to, now I'm even in my notes on comparing this and that to the sizes. And then I look in like, look at the 91st percentile and mistackles forced. His elite combination of elusiveness and contact balance creates his own yards. Pass pro is inconsistent. I got worried.

I got worries. I got worries about him being a three down player early in his career. And I love this player. He's not perfect as a receiver. but I love his potential. His hands are inconsistent. I'll give you that. Five drops last year.

I'm not sure it's natural, man. I don't disagree. I saw that. I think he can get there. And by the way, he is another one of those guys is a weapon when he gets it. If he catches it, watch out because he can make things happen

when he gets into the open field. But that said, I got worries about the pass pro, and I got worries about how he catches the ball right now. And other guys, other guys have overcome that and developed into three-down players. I'm just not sure he's there at day one. beautiful the lower body closeness is no

tape is gorgeous no question you know how much I love him so then I put in my other my other guy Jordan James Oregon again we're kind of back to that Dylan Sampson stuff and that that RJ Harvey stuff yeah you know and and makes it makes it a lot worse he ran the 4-55 and he had that terribly slow 1.62 like Caleb Johnson but Caleb Johnson's a big ass back, Jordan James is five, nine and a half and two oh five. So now I'm getting all this all in my head. Pen down, music's playing laptop down watching it.

Took me all of 20 plays to be like, don't care. Get it out of here. Get the noise out. And that's why I tell you when I tell you like, I'm telling you, I'm, I'm, and I love Caleb Johnson, but I'm just trying to give you perspective on all this. It's because of the tape. Yes, I had in my head and some of the things match up with it. the times and the things I see on tape,

but I'm not making these decisions. I'm going back to the tape so that I can trust the tape. I know. And that can be, yeah, I know you know, but I'm trying to explain the viewer so that that can be the last portion. I can't ever let that trip to Indianapolis and all those numbers and all the different.

Any asshole with a computer and an IT guy or a brain can plug in numbers and come up with formulas, right? It's got to be the tape that's got to be the foundation. So I go back to Jordan James and I see it. I see why I fell in love with him. He's as efficient a runner as there is in this class. Vision makes the right decision, but he does in a flash, feet ultra quick, center of gravity, stringing multiple cuts, jump cuts, stop starts.

It's all a thing of beauty. And I'm like, yeah, I don't care. Fearless. Take your 455 and shove it. He is absolutely fearless. He is a down-hills. You know, in Pass Pro, I gave him a two. I gave him a two.

And Pass Pro, he's 5.9.5, 250 pounds. A two means one is excellent. Two is good. Three is average. I'm giving a 5.9.5, 205 pounder, a two. Underrated, I wrote. Gets in position, knows how to get in position, gives effort, puts faces in facing the fan, surprisingly actually holds his ground better than some of these bigger backs that I was talking about.

Henderson is the same way. That's the same thing about Trayvon-Henderson, man. Technique is technique, toughness. Those will go a long way in pass-pro, man. Smaller target, and quite honestly, this is the thing that R.J. Harvey's here. Dylan Samson's right behind him. DJ Giddens is some of the traits, the great running tape, but there are concerns in the passing game.

Jordan James, I do like the pass pro. Absolutely adore him as a runner. It's just going to work. It's just going to work. He's another guy. I know it's his former teammate, and I already gave you a comp, but I don't see a huge. I, we talk about shades of instead of NFL comp, shades of. These three guys all are kind of in my mind, shades of and their grades are very similar.

Bucky Irving, Dylan Samson, Jordan, James. And actually the numbers, the size, speed, all that stuff lines up a little bit more with Bucky Urban. Dylan Samson, if you're going off the pro day, is a little bit faster. point is when you're looking for what's going to work at the next level, these guys have those traits. Now, receiver, five drops. I see that on the PFF ultimately. Yeah. But I also saw four drops and the really terrible percentage first teammate, Terrence Ferguson. I did something on Twitter and saw that and agree with that. That's, that's those four, those four drops give him a 44th percentile. And you're like, oh, it's my reliable tight end who yeah, ran a four six three,

but he's not like this explosive like game changing type of athlete he better be able to catch the football and every time i saw him he caught the football at the senior role he cut the football so why does he have a 44th percentile and drops oh because the four throws were bang bang like like dylan gabriel firing at him behind him and one of them was just a focus drop he's trying to get upfield and make a guy miss so i'm like i'm fine with his his ball skills ferguson so i'm thinking are maybe it's the same stuff right same quarterback and then i'm like now it's not i mean a couple of the five like you could argue but there are three that are what i would say are concerning things so what separates you like what are the little things that separate these guys harvey's up here because he's got all of it in the smaller package

right right they're not the 220 he's got all of it the leadership the toughness the past pros good okay but he catches the ball better than jordan james so that's a separator giddens got these traits similar runs that that right the size yeah samson's more but they're like they're all in that same range what separates them oh that's all i have it's good it was a tight hour 40 who have these other guys who of the and and it Is there anything I, anything you wanted to add to those four? But listen, I've got, we can keep going. Breshard Smith.

We've got LeQuint Allen. Devin Neil, did you get enough in on him? These are all the guys we're talking third, fourth range. Trevor E.T.N. Jaden Blue, Texas. Give me what, give me, we got as much time as you want, much. Look, there's, Alan's very interesting to me because of very, uh, of very, the offense that he played in, I mean, no one threw the ball more than Syracuse. I mean, they were throwing it all over the place.

So he's got a lot of experience catching the ball, running routes. Maybe he's a little more sophisticated as a receiver. You've already mentioned it. Those spread offenses and throwing the ball that much is going to create light boxes. It's going to create vertical seams for him. I think he did a good job of taking advantage of it. When he gets into more of a pro-style offense, how much of that's going to translate? Is there going to be a little bit of a transition time?

but he's an interesting player because of what he can do for you in the passing game. You know, there's, we can go on all these guys. Jade Blue, the speed, very intriguing. Yarns, a small school kid who, you know, flash at the senior bowl, runs well, catches the ball well. He's got a skill set that you're interested in. You know, Etienne, banged up, but talented. It doesn't have elite natural ability, but a good runner.

I mean, there's, there's bad, this is what you're going to start finding in this range. But these guys are actually tribute. I think there's going to be a lot of guys that you find in this. this range that they're going to contribute. When you talk about Harvey Samson, Giddens, and James, I think those are top two backs in the league. I think those are guys that are going to be, you know, a top two back. Then after that, you're starting to get into these guys who are going to rotate in and probably play more of a smaller role. Yeah. I mean, we've gone too long. I don't apologize. This class, honest to God, this class was worth five days of wrapping up on tape

and diving in because it's just that good. It was worth an hour and 40 minutes of this podcast. I hope some people were able to hang around long enough or maybe watching or viewing it or listening to it in segments, if you have to. But we appreciate everyone hanging in there. We've got wide receivers and tight ends coming up in a little bit. I'm sure that will be another monster, although, you know,

we'll try to manage it. But here's the deal. We put in all this time. we've never had a place to absolutely uncork like we just did. Can you imagine if I tried to go as long on one of these players, my former place of employment, let alone all of these? So I just appreciate those who are willing to sit here and sit there and listen and watch and be a part of this.

And we're going to keep providing this in-depth stuff, whether you agree with us or not. And I get the news for you. A lot of people in the league will and won't from player to player basis, right? But that's the beauty of this thing. We love doing it. I know Mench. It's like it is a passion project and it is our career.

Thank goodness. But like the passion never goes away. And I hope, hope everyone appreciates that too. Thank you for watching. Thank you for downloading. Hit the likes. Mench does this better than me.

Now I can always admit when Munch is better, he's better. We'll see you on Thursday though. Mock draft. Got to stop down. I've already done the tight ends. I'm like pretty deep into wide receivers. Going to stop down. Mock draft.

I'm going to spend the whole day tomorrow, make some calls, start to get feel we're going to have mock draft on Thursday. And I don't know. Could it be QB one and two at the top of this draft? Here we go. You'll have to find out. Subscribe to the McShay report. Google it if you don't know where to get it.

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