The McShay Show - Tale of the Tape: Shedeur Sanders vs. Jaxson Dart for QB2. Plus, Breaking Down the Eagles’ Winning Formula.

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The McShay Show’! The guys open by reacting to the Eagles’ dominant performance in the Super Bowl and discussing the biggest roster-building takeaways from the game. Then, they get into the battle for QB2 with tape deep dives of Shedeur Sanders and Jaxson Dart. To close, Todd and Steve reveal which under-the-radar prospects have been popping on film since the Senior Bowl. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (0:52) The Eagles Super Bowl Roster Blueprint (7:08) Super Bowl LX Odds: Eagles [+600] Chiefs [+650] Ravens [+650] (8:12) Jalen Hurts Super Bowl LIX MVP (10:11) 72 Days Until the NFL Draft (14:52) Which Direction Should the Patriots Go at #3? (18:50) Defensive Line will be a Premium in this Draft (21:24) NFL Combine + Draft Schedule (26:00) Breaking Down Shedeur Sanders and Jaxson Dart * (37:08) Comparing Jaxson Dart to Drake Maye (41:40) Evaluating Shedeur Sanders' Film (46:15) Who is Shedeur Sanders NFL Comp? (46:58) Who's QB2: Dart or Sanders? (56:58) Evaluating Ole Miss WR Tre Harris [WR #12] (59:29) Evaluating TCU WR Savion Williams [WR #15] (1:01:21) Breaking: Saints Hire HC Kellen Moore (1:04:24) RB Prospects: Treyveon Henderson [RB #2] vs. Omario Hampton [RB #4] (1:05:38) Todd's Top RB Prospects (1:07:45) Underrated RB Prospects: Devin Neal + DJ Giddons (1:08:19) Thanks For Watching! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guests: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

16 pressures, six sacks, zero blitzes. That won Philly the Super Bowl. Our draft blueprint. Are you still not believers? Shador Sanders versus Jackson Dart. Let's look at it through a different lens today. And let's check in with Stevie Boy on where he is in his draft process. Like you don't already know.

It's the best time of the year, but man, am I stressed? Of course you are. Just 72 days until the NFL draft. Ments, you good? I'm good. Hey, Tuck, tickled me something sweet. Holly Roseman, he was 2010 to 2014, I want to say, he was in charge of personnel. Then Chip Kelly came in.

They demoted him. Right. He had to rule. He was forced to relinquish, I should say. His duties is the final decision maker in terms of personnel when Chip Kelly was there. Well, he gets his job back. He got promoted again when Chip was fired and, you know, shown the door. And since being reinstated,

that role. Howie Roseman, the general manager of the Eagles, has led this franchise to three Super Bowl appearances, two Super Bowl victories, and four NFC East titles, right? Pretty good. And not only has he won two Super Bowls, Mitch, he's won two Super Bowls against quarterbacks that are considered the greatest of all time, Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes, right? Right. So what have we learned from this guy, this Howie Roseman guy, who's not cut from the same club? No, seriously. Like, I know Howie. He's not, he's not cut from the same cloth. He's not a, he's not a former NFL player turned scout or football guy, you know, who's worked his ranks

way up the ranks as an area scout. More of like the business side and understanding the concepts of but probably, and we'll talk to him at some point. But, but, you know, understanding the full picture from a business perspective, understanding the data, understanding what's worked in terms of developing rosters, okay? He forever, even going back to 2010, when you go back and look at their drafts, and I was looking at it, like going back to the beginning with him, and obviously they got away from it a little bit, but his first draft, 2010, Brandon Graham, pass rusher, right? Nate Allen, defense.

back from South Florida, then third pick in third round, Teo Nation, Nashim, sorry, from Washington, all three premier positions. That's the theme. And it started in 2010, and he was doing it for a while. Chip comes in a little bit more focus on the offensive side, wanting weapons for their system. And then when he got his job back, it was right back to what he really believes in. the greatest personnel people I've been around, the decision makers, have always said utilize premium picks on premium positions, like just to boil it down. What are the premium positions?

Quarterback, not running back, not wide receiver, you know, quarterback. Yeah. Defensive line, pass rushers, guys that can cover the weapons and offensive line. Okay. I looked at it. premium draft draft picks in the last three years first three rounds how we has had sorry the last four years he's had 13 picks in the first three rounds of the last four years 11 of those picks are on those premium positions 11 of 13 picks in the last four years five of them on the defensive line

three of them defensive back three of them offensive line and every year they're every year we talk about you know they really need a wide receiver you go back and look at the Eagles history from 2010 until now, their biggest misses are at wide receiver. They've had some good running backs that drafted, but was it worth that pick and considering what they could have gotten at some of those other premium positions? And they've probably out of any organization out there have stuck to this blueprint we keep talking about, whether it's the chiefs, the Eagles, the Ravens, the Packers, right? We've listed a bunch of We've gone through all of them.

The bills recently. To his credit, I think he recognized the weakness at wide receiver and made the trade for A.J. Brown. He said, you know, they hit on Devante Smith. I like that pick. But they recognized overall, we're not having as much success taking receivers early. So we're going to trade a first round pick to get A.J. Brown because we know what we're getting in that situation. So again, recognizing maybe where you haven't been as strong in the draft and address it through a trade. It seems so simple, but there's a discipline to it, right?

Because you look at a roster like the Eagles and you say, boy, we're that one piece away. We could really use that. But you keep grinding away on the defensive line. I started the show in the open by talking about, what was it, 16 pressures, six sacks. And they're one of four teams in the Super Bowl era to actually go an entire Super Bowl game without blitzing. Yeah, they didn't need to blitzing. You're right. And you need to blitz.

Right. And so when you look back in the last couple of years, when you draft Quignan Mitchell from Toledo, when you draft Cooper DeGine, when you draft Jalick's Hunt, right, in the first three picks last year, and you draft Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith the previous year with your two first round picks. And I mean, there's so many things we can go into. Drafting a lot of quarterbacks, keep taking hacks at it. You know, the Bill Walsh theory, a lot of trades. valuing picks, getting additional picks, knowing when it's time to strike.

There's a lot of different things he's done. But the foundation has been use premium picks on premium positions, and it starts really truly with that defensive front. And that won him a Super Bowl. You go back to 2022, Jordan Davis, defensive tackle, second pick, center. Let's get that offensive line short up. 2021, yeah, Devante Smith pick. but those next two picks

Landon Dickerson and Milton Williams one of the best pick that it turns out to how does Milton Williams have this critical critical overroll when every year you're drafting all of these dudes along the defensive front but Milton Williams is about to go get rich

Yeah he's going to get paid He's going to get paid but you know what I kind of say what's driving me nuts here And I agree with everything you're saying All of what you're saying is true The Eagles are the better team. By the way, looking at the futures for next year, I can't believe they're not favored.

I don't think they're favored to win the Super Bowl, which is crazy to me. But anyways, they're the better overall team, draft defense. Always getting fan duel and I love it. Yeah. It's great. All of what you're saying. Better team, drafted well in defense.

That is the blueprint. Jalen Hertz is not getting enough credit for what he's done, and they're not getting enough credit for getting him in the second round with the 53rd pick. I get it. He doesn't put up huge numbers. You look at how he's played

in the two Super Bowls, the loss to Kansas City and the win to Kansas City, the plays that he's made at critical moments, the leadership that he shows, his ability to make plays again in critical times in this game, I was blown away. He was by far the better quarterback on that field. I'm not saying he's a better quarterback from Mahom overall. Don't even start. Are you going to go into the supporting cast, all of that stuff?

Great. I'm just going to say Mahomes didn't have a chance. It was the story, but it wasn't. In my mind, I checked. Last time I checked that Chief's defense is pretty damn good, too. And they were shutting down Seekwom Barley for a large portion of that game. They did. And Jayland and Jailen Hurts was making plays when he's getting pressured.

He's making plays with his feet. Oh, the tush pushes a gimmicky play. I don't care. Stop. Stop. The guy's a winner. He was a winner in college. All the resiliency, this guy has showed over his career.

Losing the job to Tua when he was at Alabama, coming in relief in an SEC championship game and leading to a win or a comeback went over Georgia. To me, listen, the guy doesn't get enough credit and they don't get enough credit for taking him. He is a dude. And we'll all hear about the defense. And I'm also hearing all the talk after the game is not about the other quarterback because maybe he's not the guy that we thought he was. Maybe he's not Tom Brady. I get it. That's a conversation. Let's have it in a couple weeks. How about we talk about Jalen Hertz winning a Super Bowl MVP? How about Jalen Hertz's record in the playoffs as a guy who's under 27? I think only Rothusberger and Mahomes have more wins.

Like, how are they not? I mean, I get it. You're right. Better overall team. I get it. Great pass rush. They've done a great job of past of rush of drafting defense players. I'm stumbling now.

I'm so upset. But Jalen Hearst, man, where's the love? I mean, he was the Super Bowl MVP. Let me. I know, but we're not talking about them. We're talking about everybody else right now. I am. I'm not everyone.

I feel like other people are too. So maybe it's just my world. Maybe I have this bias, but. Everyone's new to this show because this show is new, okay? But we haven't been through a draft cycle. So folks out there who are tuning in, whether you're listening on Spotify or Apple, whether you're watching us on YouTube or Spotify or anywhere else that you get your podcast, let me explain something to you so that you're not sitting there confused as to why

MENCH is an absolute wreck. And MENCH we opened the last show last Thursday and MENCH is saying that, I said, Mench, you good? And he's like, no, I'm not good, actually. And he's pissed off. And he winds up going on a rant about Travis Hunter, not being in the top five pick. I want to go behind the scenes just for half a second here.

You heard me in the open say there's 72 days to the NFL draft. I promise you, you can set your freaking clock to this. The closer we get to the draft, the redder in the face, Mench gets, the more irritable he gets. I can put it in my calendar two weeks before. I'm going to get a call about Munch. The world is collapsing two weeks before the draft. The sky is falling.

I mean, asteroid's going to hit us. I'm not paid enough for all of this. No one respects what I do. It's just like set your calendar, set your watch, set your clock to it. So Mench is testing. It's not like this is not new to me.

That's why I'm sitting here. I'm smirking the whole time. Mench is testy. Oh, shocking. 72 days from the draft, Mench is testing. So don't, like, Mention will be fine on May 1st. I promise everyone. He'll be back to his jovial, fun self, you know, the fun, fun guy who's up in the woods in New

Hampshire with his beard and doing all this fun stuff in the summer. But Mention is going to be an absolute pill to handle for the next 72 days. I like to think I just elevate the care factor. You know, I just like to think it's a high care factor. That's how I would phrase it. Let's spin this forward real quickly, okay? I am in I'm working on a mock draft for everyone we mentioned it's coming out it's coming out soon we're dealing with some business stuff don't get bogged down in it I'm trying not to get bog down in it it's coming out soon I'm eager I see everyone else putting out their mock draft like we're working on it I promise I haven't done a mock draft in two years and and our folks here are they're making me fight for it and I love that so it's coming out soon um but as I'm as I'm working through the mock draft in my head and I'm talking to people in the league and I'm and I'm making sure my My draft board is up to date as possible at this point.

When we do an exercise like this and we take a minute post Super Bowl to evaluate what's going on and what the blueprint should look like, I can't help but say, all right, let's spin it forward a little bit. What does this mean? What like what could this mean? If people are paying attention to the same thing that I'm paying attention to, and I think you are for the most part when you're not yelling at me about Jalen Hertz and where his flowers, I think there are a lot of smart people in the league, and I think it's gotten smarter, if I'm being honest. I don't think we can always say there's 25 or so organizations

that are really, really damn smart. Honestly, I've been in this for 25 years, and that wasn't always the case. I think personnel groups and departments have gotten smarter. I think there's a combination of analytical tools to self-assess. I truly believe the vast majority of teams in the league have gotten really, freaking smart, okay? So there's got to be some attention paid to what's going on.

Why are those teams always winning? Why are we picking in the top 15, top 20? Okay. And I look at some teams as I'm going through this mock draft. And I see some pressure points. And I see some organizations that think or they do have their guy at quarterback. And that's what this is all about when, yes, build it before you get it at the quarterback position.

But once you get that guy, you got to, and you see the draft order if you're watching on Spotify, if you're watching on YouTube. When you get your quarterback, you got five years. And you're paying, like, you're paying your best chef minimum wage. So you can use that other money to go by the front of the house. Make it beautiful. Buy all the beautiful chairs and the lighting. Make sure your bars stocked with the finest liquors. Make sure you have a great wait staff and hostesses, all those things.

that's essentially what it is. And so when you look now and you see New England picking at number four, and yeah, it could be a couple quarterbacks before then. I think maybe just one. I think the Titans could wind up saying, you know what, this isn't our guy. This isn't our year for our guy at quarterback. Let's take the best player. So that would be an example of an organization kind of getting it

and being like, you know what, we've got a significantly higher grade on Abdul Carter than we do any of these quarterbacks. and maybe Cleveland takes Travis Hunter, even though Mench doesn't think Travis Hunter goes in the top five picks. And then maybe the Giants pull the trigger on one of these quarterbacks. Maybe it's Cam Ward, maybe it's Shador Sanders.

Maybe it's Jackson Dart. We'll get to that in a little bit, okay? But I get down to New England, and I see a lot of people mocking, mock drafting, if you will. Travis Hunter there, if Travis Hunter was available, to Mention's point the other day. I see a lot of people putting Will, Will Campbell there.

Yeah, Will Campbell, the offensive lineman from LSU, which wouldn't be a bad pick either. Let's build the trenches. Premium pick on premium positions. But watching the Super Bowl and watching all these organizations that have had success, when you get your quarterback, he can make up for a lot of sins on the opposite, on his side of the ball.

He can't do anything, can't do much for the defensive side of the ball. So let's make it a great defense, like the chiefs have done with Mahom. like the bills have tried to do with their draft picks opposite Josh Allen. Like the Ravens have done year over year, right, with Lamar Jackson. Like the Eagles continue to do once they got Jalen Hurts, okay? And that's how you beat great quarterbacks to those with that pass rush. You look at the Super Bowls that Brady lost and those Giants pass rushes that were just outrageous.

That's what beat him. Again, the pass rush for the Eagles. It's always that if you want to make a superhuman quarterback look average, you have to have that great pass rush. And the Patriots did it to Kurt Warner way back in the day too. Correct. Schem schemes and a pass rush. So I just look at New England as an interesting,

they're going to be an interesting case study of maybe we take Mason Graham here at four over an offensive lineman. Another premium position, but Mason Graham moves differently than just about any defensive tackle we've seen in a couple of years. For his size and his power, he moves differently than a lot of different. So that's one that's interesting. Number eight, you got Bryce Young, Carolina Panthers. That could be a spot where it's Michael Williams or Jalen Walker from Georgia, one of those pass rushers. And yeah, it's a position of need, so it would line up.

But they also need a weapon. And I've seen a lot of people in mock draft, Tederoa McMillan to Carolina. I don't see that following the blueprint. And I think Dan Morgan, the general manager is a really smart guy. And I think Dan Morgan, with his defensive background, is looking at the bigger picture and saying, you know what? Yeah, we'd love to get a wide receiver in here and give Bryce Young a weapon. But let's go get that weapon in the second or third round. Let's go in free agency and get a weapon.

We get some free agency money. Let's use these picks to build a great defense because we think we got our guy in Bryce Young. Go down to Atlanta. Michael Pennix. They think they've got their guy. We'll find out. Time will tell. There's not enough reps to.

put a stamp on that. But I look at Shemar Stewart. I look at Pierce Jr. from Tennessee. And I start to say, you know, like, that would be a good spot to go get a pass rusher because we think we got a guy quarterback. I look down at Tampa Bay.

You got Baker, right? Mm-hmm. And maybe at Tampa Bay at 19. Let's make sure we take care of this password. Baker's going to make up for a lot of sins. We saw it. He had his two star receivers out and they still were moving the ball offensively. Let's make sure we got a great defense on the opposite side.

You know, and I. So I pick a pick later. A pick let Bo Nicks at 20. Bo Nix would love, they'd love a wide receiver. We got a, uh, a mecca, Buka, right? We got, uh, we, we, we, we get some wide receivers that are going to start to come into play from 20 to 32. We got Luther Bird and the third from, from. Missouri. But why don't we got this defensive front. Like, and let's look at this group real

quickly. And I know, I just go on rants. I'm sorry. And everyone yells. No, you're good. This is where the value is, man. Men says, I'm with you. I talk enough and all that other shit. I get it. But like, but it, I get in sense. I get in these like rabbit holes and then I get like a dog with a bone. Yeah. I want you to listen to these names. Let's call them just top 40 guys, okay? That have a chance to go on the top 40. Addule Carter. Penn State. Two Georgia guys, Michael Williams and Jalen Walker. Shamar Stewart, who I'm in love with, power rusher effort, the whole thing from Texas A&M. Mike Green from Marshall, absolute star at the Senior Bowl after a phenomenal year with Marshall. The pressures leads the FBS.

James Pierce, Jr., I just mentioned from Tennessee. Nick Scorton, Mensha, Mesh's guy, Texas A&M. Ezoruku even, Donovan Azaruku from Boston College. Jack Sawyer. I'm not saying these guys are all going to be top 40, but they certainly could be. Josiah Stewart from Michigan, getting a lot of love from scouts I talked to. Those are all guys. I'm talking 10 guys that could go in top 40 picks. How about the defensive tackle class, inside defensive line mix? Insane.

The IDLs. Mason Graham, I just talked about it. I think he should be the Patriots pick at four. If he's not, he's probably going to go to Jacksonville at 5. Walter Nolan from Ole Miss. The running mate of Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant from Michigan. Derek Harmon, emerging. out of kind of out of nowhere, body transformation that Jim Nagy talked to us about commitment,

recommitment to the game looks different, disruptive defensive tackle at Oregon after a couple years of Michigan State. T.J. Sanders, I like this guy's tape, man. Yeah. Twitchy, athletic, disruptive. Alfred Collins, absolute beast for Texas this year, had emerging, emergence after the two guys who were drafted pretty early last year from Texas, right? Shemar Turner, another Texas A&M kid. I mean, that Texas A&M defensive line was... Yeah, who's dinged up and won't work out of the combine, but they're hoping to be back for the senior...

And Tyleek Williams, Ohio State. All guys, we're going to talk about top 40, top 50 picks. There's a bunch of dudes. The Kentucky defensive tackle Walker, you didn't even mention him. I mean, there's... Yeah, you can't... It just keeps going. We're talking close to 20 defensive linemen from edges to inside defensive linemen

that could go in the top 45, let's call it 40 to 50 picks, top 50 to 50 overall. I'll be really interested to see if more teams and more organizations are starting to see what we have really, like in the last couple years, it has like a light bulb has gone off in my head. And now we're talking to GMs about it. In our decision maker series, we're going to continue to ask every GM. And we're speaking of which is a good time to transition. We're going to be at the Combine. We got two GMs that we interviewed at the Senior Bowl.

It was awesome. The response, the viewership. Like, I've gotten more texts from people at my former job inside the league. Like people, like great interview with so-and-so. And the so-and-so's were Nick Casario, the general manager of Houston Texans, and general manager of the Baltimore Ravens, Eric Ticosta. They were awesome. They really were. They were awesome. And so we're now we have got, now we've got a blueprint and

the way they opened up and shared things. And it's just a different format than we've ever seen with the general managers. We're going to continue to do that at the combine, which is coming up. Excuse me. This winter, man, it's getting to me. We're going to be there. So the combine is the 24th through the 3rd, February 24th through the 3rd. There's a lot of like pre stuff for agents and and the players come in and get their heights and weights and all that stuff. But it really ramps up on the 25th of February. That's on Tuesday. We get in on, I shouldn't say it ramps up.

There's just heights and weights and weights and stuff. On the 26th, that Wednesday is when we get in. That's the night before, the eve of the workouts. So we're going to be there on the 26. We're going to do shows, potentially live shows. We'll keep you posted on it. But we're going to do shows every day during the pre-show on the 26. and then on the 27th, it starts with the workouts, okay,

which is Thursday, the 28th, which is Friday, and then Saturday the first. We're going to fly back on Sunday the second. There's going to be the offensive line workouts. We'll watch that, and we'll have a recap just a couple days later. But this is the off-season and draft schedule, if you're watching on YouTube, if you're watching on Spotify. The Combine Week, you see that in late February, early March.

and then and then free agency begins on the 12th of March. That's where all the mock drafts get ripped up. We start them over right after that. After that first like big, you know, movement week. Really, it's a week before and then the first week of. Then league meetings are on the 30th of March. And then right after that, it's just hardcore. We're going to ramp it up.

For the next two weeks, here's the bottom line. Next two weeks, it's Tuesday and Thursday shows. Okay. Today is our Tuesday show. We're going to have a Thursday show. And then we're going to do the same thing next week. Then we're off to the combine. Please join us. It's going to be an awesome week. We'll have interviews with GMs, as I mentioned. We're going to stack a bunch of them while we're there. We're going to have the four shows from the 26th of February until March 1st. And then after that, we're probably going to shift to come a little bit earlier in the week and do some live shows as well. And I think when we get to April, mention it's just going to be so much stuff. We're going to be flooded. I think we're probably going to ramp up to three, three. a week, but I haven't even talked to programming about that yet. So we'll get there. But you know now the schedule for us, we appreciate everyone tuning in. I know the Super Bowl ended. Everyone's got a little bit of a football hangover, if you will, a little football fatigue. But like this is this is the time where we start really diving in. We're watching tape. We're trying to make assessments off of tape. Then we get all the combine numbers. Then at that process, like my whole goal is to get a lot of

these top 100, top 150 guys, every year done on tape. because I love going into the combine with an evaluation basically done on their tape. So when we start to make some movement, it's, oh, this cornerback ran a four or three. I thought he was maybe a four, four, or five guy, right? We see some different things that come out. And then you get the information. What's the medical checks at the combine. Hey, they got to go back for a recheck in the medical rechecks.

Who are those guys? What other medical information we get in? What character information are we getting? How are the interviews going? What are teams here? Like we have so much information that I've never been able to use before Mench. Never. Maybe an occasional like dot com piece, like some buzz I'm hearing.

But even that stuff had to be pared down. We get to just unload all of it right here. And so please stay with us. We're going to have a fun couple months, man. We really are. Like I'm more fired up about this than anything we've ever done professionally. And we appreciate everyone tuning in. Please give us a subscribe, a like, all the things that you.

you know to do on the podcast to just help support us as we try to grow this thing because this first year through. All right. Anything else on your plate, Munch? I just want to get into Jackson Dart right now. I mean, we're going to do that. Let's go. You got your hotel. I'm excited about right for the combine. Yeah, we're good. Thanks, Marissa. I would be lost. I know, but I know that feeling. I also want to mention this is the first time you've actually come to the combine. Yeah, my first trip there. Yeah. I can't wait to have you, man. It's going to be Your room is going to be the film study room.

We're going to have all sorts of like room service there. We'll have to bring like air freshener and stuff. But it's an awesome week. It's an awesome week. Okay. All right. So I did. I've been struggling with this.

And I told you from the jump. October 22nd, we had our first show and I promised full transparency. Okay. I have done just about every tape. on on shador Sanders and I'm now up to LSU, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Duke on Jackson Dart. Okay. Those are the games that I've actually studied and taking my notes on tape for Jackson Dark. And the list, like it's a long list for Shador.

It's not even worth my, it's basically every, every important game. Um, what are your thoughts? Let's start there. I'll start with just talking about Dart. And I'll give the example of the Florida tape, right? The Florida tape, they lose that game. He throws a couple picks late. He throws one that's just a terrible decision into triple coverage on, you know,

he didn't need to force the throw. They're driving. They're on the plus 40. It's late in the game. I think it was first down. He forces a throw into triple coverage. It's a bad decision. It's a bad throw.

and I'd watch so much of Ole Miss over the year, right? And I'd seen so much of Jackson Dart. And then you go back, and this is the difference between watching as a college, like you're evaluating, you know, how these teams are playing and then digging into the prospect, right? If I could put a two-minute highlight film of the plays that Jackson Dart makes in that Florida game. There are plays that he makes in that Florida game that I think you other quarterbacks can make. He's ripping the ball down the middle for a touchdown. He's dropping the ball over the top.

He threw a ball to his tight end from the right hash. And the tight is running a corner on the left side of the field. He drops it into the tight end and the tight end drops the ball. It's he I, when I go back and watch, I, I'm excited. I am so excited after watching his tape. I'm not going to lie to you. I think that the, you know, the conversation, you said at the, at Mobile, could he be quarterback too?

And I almost broke my neck. I was like, oh, wait, what? Is that a thing now that Jackson Dart might be quarterback? That's a thing, man. That is without question a topic of conversation. Let's just start there. I did the Florida tape. Florida tape was one of the tapes I added to my catalog, if you will, of games.

It's flat out phenomenal. It's crazy, right? That's the bad tape. These are my notes, okay? And I don't get, we're going to go a while. I don't care. I promise 45 minutes to Dan and Tucker. I always lie when it comes to timing.

I'm sorry. Decisive reads. Accurate and quick trigger on short to intermediate. Great throw first drive, but he got a tight end decapitated. I don't know if you watched that. He did.

He did. But also a corner fell off of it. And the other receiver's spacing was off. Get out of the, the receiver. 100%. 100%. Play 18.

Terrible drop. Play 18. Terrible drop on a corner route. Perfectly layer. Yep. But the one thing I love. he came back and on that throw in play 18 pressure in his face drops layers it in beautifully okay drop comes back to it on play 30 same exact route same receiver and the receiver kind of double

catches it but catches it so confidence in your receiver confidence in the in the play design okay play 22 touchdown dime post drops it in beautifully leads is receiving leading is this is overall notes just like now we're like through 20 something plays and I'm like he's just quick no like leading receivers open touch timing placement okay play 26 throw open after third re oh oh plays 26 and 27 if you're and if anyone who's a tape junkie was like if you want to see to play I love one play stack together plays 26 and 27 I thought were great examples of him like when he's rolling what he has to offer throws his receiver open third down And then play 27.

It's an absolute dot, just a laser on a post touchdown. Now they're leading 14 to 7, okay? That's 9.35 left in the second quarter. Then in my notes are tough, efficient runner, dog competitor, hit after hit, helmet getting knocked off twice, kicked around on the ground, popping back up, okay? And this is just, this is a week after, don't forget, this is a week after the Georgia game when he gets knocked out.

And I'll get to the Georgia game in a minute, minute. But then the thing that everyone remembers from that game, after he's gotten his ass kicked, he's been running the football more. He had, I wrote it down, five long, important critical runs in that game, okay? He's exhausted. And it came after he had another long run. And he was just white. And he's pressing and they're down 24-7.

And remember, this is when your guy, Pigeese, I don't know what got in the lane, but Pagis become like he's like a featured back now. And they're not getting. Yeah, like 20 carries. Yeah. And all of a sudden, there's like three plays I'm clicking through. It's Pegis, Piggis, Pigeese, Pagis, Pagis. And they're not picking up those fourth and short.

And they've got drives that stole. They moved the ball on offense the entire game against that Florida defense. It's young, but got really good late in the season, okay? And down 24-7, drove him into Florida territory, but then he had the worst decision I've ever seen him make. And I don't have an explanation for it. I don't know if it was the helmet getting knocked off. twice, a little rattled.

I don't know if his head was spinning. I don't know. And I'm not going to excuse it away because I'm not going to become an apologist. It was a disgusting decision in a critical moment. And he made it. It's hopefully. So it was. He'll be the first to tell you.

He's disgusted with himself. Like we're not here to like sugarcoat shit. No. And he knows it. And Lane knows it. And you know, you move on from it. But it's the worst decision decision I've seen him making. his career into the end zone with 147.

It was play 75. Then they get the ball back with 103. Two good plays, gets them back into right around midfield. And then he throws an interception on, but it was a miscommunication, but they got away with it, the penalty. And then you really do need to press. Like you start out, you have to press at that point. And he did, he did on the next play when he actually threw the interception.

It was another miscommunication, but it was a trash decision. And I think you saw a quarterback who was just run down. Georgia rain game. Nothing about it pretty. Gets his hand knocked on a throw early in the game, gets knocked out of the game. But like the toughness to come back, went to the locker room, fixed up right back in. I thought he, here's the notes I had. I thought it was interesting.

If you really rewind, rewound and really studied the coverages, anytime a quarterback makes a decision where I'm like, I wouldn't have made that decision, but it was the right decision, I get impressed. Right. Like I think it was one of the first throw, maybe the first throw of the game. He opted out of throwing a screen. And I think it was like no loss. He held on the ball, whatever the final decision.

The corner fell off of his first read. You know, it was a zone coverage look that they disguised his man. And he dropped into the flat. It was like a slot corner or whatever it was. And his preparation, his tape preparation, told him, don't make that throw. Whatever it was, the back turn. because the corner on the perimeter didn't bail yet, and he still turned down that throw.

And had he made that throw, the flat defender, the slot guy, would have been right there. Probably wouldn't have picked it, but would have knocked it down. Fascinating to me. He did that a couple times. So I put in my notes,

step ahead on his reads. The other thing I noted in Georgia game and the same thing's true in Florida and all these other games, don't overlook the fact that he makes the easy stuff look easy. he plays with it like the structure of the offense runs and and yes there's a lot of spread stuff and that sometimes the reeds can be a little bit easier sometimes lane just out coaches and out schemes the defensive coordinator but but he pulled like he's he's making decision pulling the trigger

he's setting his protections more this year he's checking out of some bad plays i just i see the i see a maturation in his game that i hadn't seen previous to this year okay and it again it I disagree or disagree with me this really quickly. The supporting cast, he didn't have Trey Harris the second part of the season. I didn't think his, there was times where I'm watching it. I'm like, he's nowhere to go with this ball. Guys just aren't separating. And then he's making plays with his feet.

He's extending. And I thought the pass protection was an issue at times. You know, I don't want people to look at that. I love that Ole Miss team because of their defense and Jackson Dart. When you look back at it, they didn't have, they had a lot of productive receivers. But I didn't think he had an elite supporting cast when he was there. I said in Georgia, his receivers hung them out to dry on three different routes. Like the routes were wrong.

They didn't flatten. They had in addition to the routes being off, and he didn't sell any of them out. No. You could tell watching the tape, the routes weren't right. And in addition, they had several drops in both games, okay? Both of those games, which were in addition to all the other drops and things I've seen in other games. So that's Jackson Dart at 6-2-226, 9.5 inch hands, man. The other thing I'll say, I had the same note as you as decisive, but without rushing.

He doesn't, it's decisive, but if it's not there, he's getting to his next read. Like, if you're saying a step ahead of your reads, I saw it as he's, if it's there, he's taking it right away. If it's not, he's getting to his next read. And if that's not there, he could take off and either extend or scramble for a first down. And he's not, listen, he doesn't have the speed of a Lamar Jackson. He doesn't have the power of a Josh Allen. but he does have a little bit of that Drake May running ability. He has a little bit of that.

I love you. So I went and I do this every year. Like I'm not going to make a decision on these quarterbacks until I go back and study tape. Not of their rookie season or second or third year in the NFL. What were they coming out? Right. So I went back and I watched both Jaden Daniels and Drake May.

Right. Jaden's a damn unicorn, man. Yeah, he's like Lamar and Jaden are on a different planet. They're a different universe, I think. The ball jumping out of his hands, the accuracy, even on slight misses, they're only like the degree of difficulty throws. Oh, you're talking about overall. Okay, I got you.

Oh, Jaden, when I went back and studied some tape. And I took an hour last night because I was like, I got to put this in perspective. Because we keep saying, well, if it was last year's draft, and there's clearly a difference. Jaden is it was a unicorn and we knew it and I actually I told you like I had the same grade just like one and Caleb and I'm I can live with it but I promise you I was I was yelling to nobody who was listening that like we're underrating Jaden okay I don't have a problem with my evaluation on Jaden I don't if we're going to have a problem we'll see in the future with Caleb but it's not with Jaden

Drake May was interesting because I see a lot of similarities in Jackson in darts game for exactly what you're saying. It's not this twitchy mobility, but it's the ability to elude a defender. And when they run, it's not like elite speed, but it, but it's this like efficient, tough,

aggressive, everything's north-south. And I'll get to Shador Sanders in a minute. Everything with Drake is north-south advancing. And I think a lot of that comes from Lane. Like, we're not going sideways. We're not going backwards.

Every climb in the pocket. not there take off run and don't start scrambling around to the right and get it to the outside get up north get north immediately okay and the same was with drake now drake did a little bit more running around and didn't have protection and receivers sucked and i didn't like the system and all that stuff but i put in the tape of drake right after on purpose right after studying more of jackson dart it's very similar Tate in terms of trying to be decisive, trying to keep things moving, progressing north, right? Efficient as a passer, right? Even though like the production numbers and the stats wouldn't say it,

but like throws are there. The difference was Drake May, the ball popped off his hands a little bit more than it pops off of Jackson. Jackson's got a two. 100%. One out of five. Drake was, Drake was a, one in terms of one being elite you know top end highest level outstanding two being and we only do these for position specific traits for critical traits two being good three being average four

being below average five being marginal okay so i think jackson is a two in terms of his arm strength drake may is a one would drake may the athletic i think they're same like the speed and and and what they do i really do But it's just different when I popped in the Drake May tape because I'm watching a guy who's 6'4, 223 pounds versus 6017. Jackson Dart was 6.178s of an inch. So we'll call him 6.2 and 226 pounds. Right. So to watch a taller guy with the same agility, maybe honest to God, like slightly better, which is really impressive. And so as I was watching this, like Drake May, minute 50 left in the first quarter against South Carolina, 2023 tape.

I watched that play and I'm like, wow, like, what an athlete for size, you know? And it's a similar athleticism from Jackson Dart, but at his size, it just looks different. Right. Then 1225 second quarter. And remember with Drake Mays, it was a lot of like this own read option, you know, RPO's, all that stuff. And so like it just was hard taped to churn through. Right. Because there wasn't as much like pro style progression read stuff as there is with Jackson

and dart and some of these other quarter. But 12-25 second quarter, scrambles to his left, scrambles to his right. This is against South Carolina as well. Then he throws a strike across his body where you're like, it ain't pretty, but my goodness.

Yeah, who does that? There is so much on this canvas to work with, right? And so there's just more. He's just more talented. He's bigger. He's just as, maybe slightly more athletic. He's got a stronger arm. But the same reasons that I like,

Drake May are a lot of the same reasons with Jackson Dart. Okay. Shador Sanders. I went back and watched more tape on him, just to kind of refresh and keep, because as we go through these positions, you and I do this all the time. We do with the colleges in the preseason because they've got like,

you know, 30 players from Ole Miss. So it doesn't make sense to do by position, go back and forth and back. So you're just, you're ripping through tapes offensive side, then defensive side for Ole Miss. That's just the process. But you get to now and we've got to start stacking them. And I was talking about during this process, the very beginning, in this summer before,

we're air traffic control and we're just trying to get a thousand planes up there. And then as the season progresses, we're trying to just steer them towards where they're going. And at this point, air traffic control. Eric DeCosa talking about the buckets, Eric DeCosa talking about getting guys in the right buckets and then figure out within that bucket, how do we rank them? You know, everyone's doing the same thing. And so now, now we're getting, now we're starting to figure out what, what bucket they're in or air traffic control, like what, what runway they're headed

towards. Now we got to stack the planes. And like this one goes first. This one's going to follow up 90 seconds later. You watch a busy airport every 90 seconds, Boston Logan. I've talked to people there. Both my parents, by the way, worked for Delta Airlines for, you know, 40 plus combined years. So I kind of got a fascination with planes.

But, but every 90 seconds, busy airports, they're, they're, they're ripping through, right? And so who's next up? And that's kind of how we're processing all this. So as I went through and watched the Drake May, and I watched the Jaden Daniels, it helped give me perspective on how talented this class actually is as a whole, comparatively.

But now I want to go and we do it for every position. Let's watch these quarterbacks back to back to back, to have it fresh in your mind. It makes it easier as an evaluator. And I know talking to people in the league, they do say the area scouts, for example. Area scouts, they spend like four months on the road doing their area. So if you're the Southeast scout, you got all the SEC teams, you got some ACC teams, right?

Yeah. You got some smaller school guys in your area. But then what happens is you get done with that process and then you do a cross-checking. So we'll talk to all of our friends in the league and we'll see them at the senior bowl and they'll be like, yeah, I've got defensive line this week. Or I've got tight ends and linebackers, you know. So what did you see? Sorry. I want to know I can't wait

Utah was one of the games I watched first play terrible interception by Shador doesn't see the linebacker undercutting everything is chaos love how he stays calm under pressure but needs an offensive coordinator in the NFL that's going to work to speed up his clock and force him to play

within the construct because he is truly the best pure passer in this class in terms of his it's an interesting dichotomy and i've got pages of notes on him because you know going through all the different games the interesting dichotomy in shadr is he's and there's two parts he scrambles so much he extends plays he's creative right but he's not an elite athlete okay no so i worry about that at the next level is he going to be able to extend plays at the same rate or with the same effectiveness that he does. And the second part that's that's hard to explain, I'm going to try to do it here, his instincts as a passer are brilliant. There was one play, play 60 for whatever, you know,

anyone out there is a lunatic. The rush is bearing down, this is against Utah, rush is bearing down on him, but he senses a receiver cracking open down the scene in the middle of the field, okay? And the pressure is like right in his face. and like almost no look just flings it, snaps it off, doesn't have a great arm, has an adequate NFL arm, but he snaps it off and he gets it down there. A lot of guys wouldn't have seen that receiver

even be on the verge of breaking open, right down the field, right on target. Can't even see it. Like one of those were like falling back, pressure in your face, and delivers a strike, okay? His instincts as a passer are phenomenal. his instincts though in the pocket are going to get him killed if he doesn't learn to play

on time on schedule and start to speed it up now we said the same exact things about patrick mahomes and please don't even start with the nonsense you're comparing it but you keep doing you can you can you can make those steps josh allen lamar jackson jaylyn hurts all of improved their accuracy. Patrick Mahomes is one of many examples of guys in the NFL, learn how to play within the confines of a system, right, and learn how to speed up their clock and didn't play hero ball all the time. And that's what Chicago is going to try to do with Ben Johnson, with Caleb Williams. That's the challenge, because he's got everything else. Can he play on time? Okay. So that's going to be a big challenge for Shador. My takeaway was this, Mitch. I wanted to come out of this and say definitively,

your door better than jacks okay get off the fence i'm not on the fence what i'm telling you is everyone's saying jackson it's it's these two quarterbacks in the at the top of the board everyone's saying right you get on you get on x you get on instagram you you turn on the tv everyone's saying the same it's cam and schador cam and shador i'm saying we'll we'll get to cam in a little bit and we've already we did it early in the process but we'll keep coming back to it because it's the most important position. I'm saying I'm not seeing a big gap between these two quarterbacks, truly. I agree.

I think it could truly come down to what are you looking for because my biggest takeaway in this whole process, studying more of Shador, studying more of Jackson, studying, going back and looking at Jaden Daniels and Drake May, this whole project that I've done. My biggest takeaway is that there's not two of them, one, there's not a huge difference between Chador and Jackson DART in terms of talent and their potential to be starting quarterbacks in the NFL. And that may shock some people. Number two, they're completely different styles.

It's almost like watching a different sport when you're watching Chador, the scrambling around, holding on the ball, trying to, you know, beautifully creating and giving his receivers more time. but everything's east, west, backwards, running around and then making a beautiful throw because of his unbelievable instincts and his touch and his ball placement and all the things that he has that make him the best pure passer in this class. But with Jackson Dart, if I'm an offensive coordinator, if I'm an offensive head coach like a Brian Dayball, you know, some of these, a lot of these guys in the league, and you have a quarterback need. And you're looking at this and saying, if I don't know if it's about winning now, but like, I'm looking for a guy who's a little bit more in tune with running my

offense. Right. Who's going to keep it moving forward. Everything's climbing the pocket, tucking and running. If the reeds open, sense it before and get the ball out. Take the three cents change instead of looking for the full dollar, right? On a lot of plays. That's the difference between the two. So I'm not a big analytics guy. I don't know how to say that. I haven't used analytics a lot over the course of my career, but I am trying.

I do think they're an important tool and becoming even more important. So I get a little bit nervous when I start talking about these numbers, but when you talk about average depth of target for a quarterback, Jackson Dart is by far higher than any of the other top prospects. I think he's at 12.4. Cam Ward's, I think, two yards below that, and then and then Chador's in the eights. And that's what concerns me about him a little bit, is how effective is he, is he pushing down the field?

If you watch his entire college career, he is a surgeon when he is in a rhythm. He can dissect a defense. He can get, he can't, that's when you were talking about the dichotomy, that's what's interesting for me about him, is that he has the ability to get the ball out quickly

and beat teams with short intermediate throws and just go right down the field if he wants to. But sometimes he just chooses to try and make the big play and hold on to the ball longer. And he's a little bit, I don't want to say lackadaisical, but nonchalant about contact. You know, it's not only him holding on the ball and taking those big hits. I've seen him not get out of bounds fast enough and take a big hit.

I've seen him hold onto a ball that he's going to throw away and take a big hit. And it drives me nuts because he's so talented. You just, you know, you've got to be better. And again, I know his offensive line's not great. I know it was a little bit better this year. I know it still wasn't great. I know his supporting cast outside of Travis Hunter isn't great. I understand all of those things.

and those things are true. There's stuff that he could have done to protect himself against big hits. 100%. Right. So there's other things that are at play when you watch him on tape. And I agree with you. I think it's a great way of saying it. And I'm always busting you on this one. I'm always trying to get you to be like, all right, well, who's quarterback to McShay? I think we're in a conversation now. I think we're, where it's not. And I think that's a great thing for this class, by the way. Jackson, we don't have to say because Jackson Dart is rising, that all of a sudden, Shador Sanders is falling because everything we saw about Shador hasn't changed since the last time he took the field against BYU. So now all of a sudden to be like he's falling off the map, well, based on what?

Because Jackson's rising? It's just those two things don't add up to me. So I think it's great. And I think it's even a conversation again, but you kind of hinted at it too about who do you want to run your offense? And this is not, this race is not over. We're on like mile 20 of a marathon. You know, it's tough right now. You're trying to figure it all out.

You've done a lot of homework. you're on mile 20, you're trying to get to that finish line, and that's what's going on. And Cam Ward, you know, everyone seems to think he's number one overall right now, and that's good. I mean, he's had a great ear, talented kid. I think these three, there's going to be an interesting conversation, and then the other conversation will transition to how early. Because we know, you know, comparing him to last year's class, I think we still all agree, not the same as last year's class, still four or five for the top quarterback in that class.

Whether if it's Cam Ward's the first quarterback, you'd probably be taken fourth or fifth last year. I still think that's true. So how early do you go? Are there going to be two quarterbacks taking the top five because of need and because these guys are now, as we expected, climbing up a little bit on teams boards. It's going to be interesting to see. I'm glad you brought analytics in because it's something I know,

like I get so much shit on my X feed and all that stuff. But I did think like we have PFF Ultimate. Like we have all those stats and we go through and try to. Fascinating. Yeah, it's fascinating. And there are some things that help support what we're saying. and then there are some things that I look and I'm like, hmm, I better go take another look. Who's this edge rusher that I, you know, that I've got, that I haven't done this tape on at one point in the process.

Or I've got them at 32, but every time I'm looking at different analytics or different numbers, it's popping up, whatever it is. So 90% of what I get on X, I either look at and laugh or I just ignore. But it was fascinating. This person, I don't even know who, who it is. and there's no name on it, but ZWK at ZWK football. I'll give him a plug here. The same stats that we have, we have our hands on, and we utilize and we look through.

He put together a cool graph, and I don't have a whole background on it, but he did a couple graphs that I thought were interesting that showed up in my feed, and I was like, oh, I'll check it out. And one of them was big time throws, like you were mentioning, the big time throws, right? Big time throws under pressure versus big time throws when the quarterback had greater than two and a half seconds in the pocket, right?

Which I thought was fascinating. Jackson Dart was up there. And I always look, the first thing I look, all right, give me historical background. Well, some of the best guys in the league, as the graph goes up and towards the right, they have the historical backdrop of Patrick Mahomes is basically the highest of them. Josh Allen is up there. Tua. Trevor Lawrence.

So like it's not like it's no stat tells you the whole picture and nothing is perfect, but those are guys that we all had a lot of you know, we liked a lot coming out of the draft and have had some level of success. And Lawrence is a story for a different day. But I like to see some of those names, okay? And in that, Jackson Dart is slightly ahead of Cam Ward,

but he's the best in this class on that graph, okay? Cam Ward's just behind him. And then below that the kind of the Mendoza line, if you will, is you get to Chador and Quineuers and Milro and Howard and those guys. I thought that was interesting. To me, what throws relate to the NFL, big time throws, and how do you do it under pressure? And then the other graph that he produced, quarterbacks under pressure and production, okay, up there on this list, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Tua, Brock Purdy, C.J. Stroud, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lord. Like, that's a pretty good list. Okay. Now you've got my attention.

Of the guys that are in this class, Jackson Dart is number one. By it, not a massive margin, but it's sizable margin, greater than the one, the previous chart that I told you. Over interesting. You ready? McCord. Your guy. Syracuse. from Ohio State. A guy that you have pointed out that you like a little bit more than other people, maybe. Will Howard, who we've talked about, really progressed as his career went on, Dylan Gabriel, and then really below the Mendoza line, Shador, Jalen, Cam Ward.

Interesting. Again, just some numbers, because all this tape we watch to help have something that puts a little bit of perspective in the two areas that I think are critical. Big time throws under pressure. You know, I just thought it backs up what you see on you backs up what you see on tape with Dart. He is, he will strike deep. I think he does. One of the things that jumped out to me is I love the way he reads safeties. You drift, you take a false step as a safety. It doesn't matter what the look is. If he has faith that his receiver can split the corner and the safety against two high looks or three high, whatever he's looking at, if you drift or take a fall step as a safety, he's going to pull the trigger.

He is going to take that shot because he has the confidence that he will get the ball there before you can recover. I get into some of the other guys that kind of popped from Colorado and Ole Miss. Trey Harris, the receiver. Trey Harris, yeah. He was hurt. Second half of the year. I don't know what he's going to run.

I don't really care. I'm tired of the, I mean, I shouldn't say that, right? If he runs a 4-8, uh-oh. But, and I don't know if he's going to run because. because he has a groin injury. This dude has 2,000 yards over the last two seasons, and he only played in seven games this year. One of those games was Florida when he's hurt halfway through it

or fairly early on in that game. I love Trey Harris. I think if he's healthy, he's a guy we're maybe talking about sneaking into the first round. I think he's going to rise a lot. And I don't know that it's going to be because of his 40-yard dash. I think it's going to be the health. I think it's going to be like some of the lower-body explosive,

of the some of the powerful. Yes, powerful. I think this class is interesting and it's not great at wide receiver. We got Tett McMillan from Arizona, Luther Burden, from Missouri. Travis Hunter is kind of as a

wide receiver, right? Wide receiver corner, so that's why I don't always lead with him because I do think he's going to be drafted as a corner with how much he will play wide receivers is TBD. But Emeka, Abuka keeps growing on me the more tape I watch. Matthew Golden is my dude. I just love Matthew Golden, and I get Golden at three.

Right there, you got Hunter one as a receiver corner, then McMillan, two, if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify. Matthew Golden, I've been planting my flag on that guy. Luther Burden, with the speed and explosiveness, took a step back this year. How much of that was offense and quarterback driven? Mecca is another guy. All of those guys in the top 34, but start off with McMillan at 11. So it's not like the classes we've seen in recent years.

a lot of other dudes in there as well. Trey Harris, I've got him down at 85 and I'm admittedly too low on him right now. I've got it. After watching more Jackson Dart and watching him in the games, he was healthy, he's going to be rising up that port. Wasn't at the senior bowl? You're like, East West, he was going to, I think he was east west, but he wasn't there either. He missed the All-Star game because he's still not healthy. Correct.

So that'll be interesting to see with Trey Harris. But I think when it's all said and done, my point on this is I think he could be one of the top. six, seven wide receivers taken in this class and maybe top five. Truly. Can I talk about, can I talk really quickly about another wide receiver that you have on that board that you talked about already about liking? And then I think you're a little low on still because I went back and watched him.

Yep. Is the TCU kid Savion Williams? I mean, he is, you like Debo Samuel? If you like Debo Samuel, you're going to love this kid, man. He is that guy. And he's a little bit stronger, he's a little bit bigger,

A little bit, not stronger. Dibo's, I mean, no one's stronger than Divo. But he's a little bit bigger. Same kind of power. Can run the ball, can make a play as his receiver, make contested catches. The production could be a little bit better, but this kid's going to run in the same range as Dbo, be a little bit bigger than Dibo and play that same kind of role. He's a guy, I think, you know, I'm an optimist right now. All of a sudden, I'm an optimist.

I love everyone. It's like therapy. The show's like therapy for you. By the end of it, you're all giggles. I think, first of all, when you talk to scouts in the league, you talk about wide ranging from he's like, shh, don't keep, keep him out of your mouth. Keep him out of your mouth, McShay. Like, there's so much to work with their versatile weapon. We could really use, he would fit great in what we're doing. We have a great, you know, offensive mind to, yeah, you can have him.

Fool's gold. Really? But I'll say, like, whether you love him or not, and we'll get to, we'll do different position groups and we'll get to all this stuff i'd yeah i told you about like a month or so ago i'm glad you're joining yeah you did but but i'm saying move them up you're too low i will say as we look ahead to our shows on the 26 27 28th and march first at the combine i promise you one of the names when we go through like the five 10 biggest risers and the biggest stories from from the combine savion williams is going to be one of them he he's so supposedly just, and you see it on tape, the explosiveness, his size, he's different. Yeah.

Breaking news. I guess it's not unexpected, but breaking news. Kellan Moore was just hired by the Saints as their new head coach. I don't know how much you want to. I like it. I think it's a good hire. I do too. Yeah.

Quite honestly, I was surprised that that wasn't the hire in Dallas. Yeah. for a number of reasons, right? I mean, it kind of fits. I think Kellyn Moore doesn't need to be that, you know, in front of the cameras as much as some other head coaches maybe do. And that would have fit with Jerry Jones kind of thing. And his history there is that that higher would have made a lot of sense.

But I think the Saints do well here. I think it was Chris Spielman. We were doing games a while ago. Kellyn Moore, just a real quick story. Kellen Moore is a prospect. I was like, he'd live. literally has everything that you look for in a quarterback. He functions between his ears faster and more efficiently than just about any quarterback

you'll ever evaluate. And I don't know that I've ever seen a quarterback with greater anticipation, getting the ball out and leading a receiver better. I'm talking the top guy, like he, but no quarterback you'll ever evaluate does everything right like this guy, but unfortunately he just doesn't have size or an arm. Do you remember? He was just killed me. He's like, well, he was at the Senior Bowl and we went down there and it rained one day.

And back then, the Senior Bowl has come so far. Back then, they would clear out the conference, the conference hall. Oh, my gosh, you're right. And they would practice down there. So you're seeing Kellan Moore and pads all week. And then all of a sudden, rain day, they bring him in. And you're like, who's, who's that kid throwing a ball around? Like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah, you're like, oh, my God, that that's Kellan Moore. I mean, he looks like the guy next to you. Yeah, he looks like the guy next to you at the grocery store. And a little bit of Dylan Gabriel there, a little bit of, uh, kind of reminds me a little bit of Dylan Gabriel, those two players, how good they are. Gabriel's got a better arm. But yeah, the quick process. But mentally processing and size.

My point in telling that whole story is like, it's not surprising to me at all. And I remember talking to Chip Kelly about it. Like, this guy, like, this guy, like, his mental and his anticipation are like off the charts. And so to see a guy take all that football knowledge that he had at quarterback and to apply it to coaching, it's not shocking. But I like the higher. I really do.

They've got to find a quarterback now. And they've got a lot of other things personnel-wise. But I like him as an offensive mind. And that makes a lot of sense. All right. I wanted to finish on this, Mench. And I know it's a dangerous neighborhood up there in your mind. but where are you in your process?

Any players that are jumping out? I thought you were going to go in another direction and I was going to lose my mind because this is the one player I wanted to talk about. And again, it kind of loops back to what we're just talking about with Shador and Jackson. Just because I like this player, doesn't mean I don't like the other player.

Trayvion Henderson, we talked about him. We talked about him in the last pod, Hot name, Rising, maybe a guy that goes in the first round. I've watched a ton of Ohio's tape since then. Couldn't agree more. although I don't know if he's going to go in the first round. Couldn't agree more. I thought he was great this year.

If you take, if you gave me the option. I was expecting you to be like you're an idiot. Oh, no, no. You're wrong. Here's the butt. Here comes the butt. Oh, okay. North Carolina running back, Omarian Hampton is different.

You talk about, he's not Ashton Genty. Ashton Jentie had the most rushing yards per game in the country this year. Who was second? Hampton. Gentie, you know, the most yards after contact this year. Who is second? Hampton. 220 pounds, man.

He is 220 pounds. I hope he runs at the combine because I think he's going to run super well. You're talking about power, explosiveness. I think that's one of the difference between him and Henderson. Henderson, great contact balance, great toughness. Hampton's, he is a pile pusher when he needs to be. And he still got that explosive burst. I said Joe Mixing before.

I will say Joe Mixing again. Omar and Hampton, if there's going to be a running back that goes in the first round other than Gentie, if there's going to be two, it should be Hampton. I'm going to tear this for you where I am right now, and I still have more tape to finish up, obviously the combine and the workouts and everything else. Gentie is in a tier of his own. Correct. But I don't want to make him out to be superhuman where it's like this, like one guy can do it and he's elite and everyone else is just kind of good.

Like, I don't want that. And we'll get into a much bigger discussion on this later. I travion is two for me okay but if you look at these if you're watching on youtube or spotify i don't travion's two for me because of where the league is and you need a back that can block and he does it at an extremely high level with a nastiness and toughness about him that i love and the speed and explosiveness that he provides when you see a guy like a jemere gibbs like i would love to see trae vion in chicago okay with ben jons with Caleb Williams in a rotation,

I think he could have unbelievable success. But again, not a big gap between Henderson. In my mind, I'm bullish on Caleb Johnson. I love him. You can take care of O'Marian Hampton. I've got him as the fourth running back. And you can just press pause until we get to that spot. I like Hampton, got him in the top 50 as a running back.

That's a tribute for me because I am not a running back draft guy. So if I got a back in the top fit and you see the drop off after that when you get to like LeQuint Allen, Syracuse, Jordan James, who I love from Oregon, Dylan Samson, I love from Tennessee, Cam Scadaboo from Arizona State, all in the top 91 overall. But there's a drop off when you get to that kind of third tier, if you will. So the first tier, if it's Ashton Gentie, we'll call it that. Second tier is Trayvion Henderson, Caleb Johnson, Omarian Hampton. then the third tier would be La Quint and James and Samson and Scataboo and others. There's two other names, though, as we get closer. Okay.

I'm going to, I need to finish up my tape and I want to see the workouts and everything else. Devin Neal from Kansas, I just adore his run style. I think that works in the NFL. And there's a name that we haven't talked a lot about that I've watched just a little bit of tape. DJ Giddens from Kansas State. Yeah, he's going to a lot. It seems like he's picking up some steam right now. Yeah.

I just, I like his game. I mean, there's so many, whatever. I just, I want to throw that name out there. I, I, I like his run style. I think he's going to be an effective NFL back. That's it, I guess. Let's do a little cleanup here. Apparently the odds shifted,

Fandual, Super Bowl 60 odds. You're going to be happy, Munch. Take a deep breath. Thank God. Your, your, your boy, Jalen Hertz and the Eagles are plus 600 is the favorite. although not a significant favorite over the next two highest odd teams. Tucker just sent this to us via Fandul. Chiefs are plus 650 and the Ravens, Eric DeCosta,

who we just recently spoke to, the Ravens plus 650 as well. That makes sense. I was misled. I was misled. That's all right. We probably got it earlier. Yeah.

Thank you, everyone. We appreciate it. I tried to keep it at 45 minutes, did an hour and 11 and 28 seconds. It's the best I can do, man. It's the best I can do. So you can always fast forward if you're watching or listening on Spotify, on Apple. If you're watching on YouTube, we just appreciate it. You can tell, you can just sense it.

We're fired up. We get so much more to get to. We're grinding away on tape. Like this is the, you know, it's still getting dark early here in the Northeast. Now's the time to do it. We come up for air in a couple months. But we're excited. The next three shows, we're just going to go.

We're going to take you behind the. the scenes. I'm tentatively scheduled to talk to a general manager. I'm trying to get their exact schedule for the offseason. I think that would be fascinating to share, like, from the scouting your area to the cross-checks to the top 50 meetings. No one's ever shared that before. So I'm going to try to get an exact schedule to take you kind of behind the scenes and what goes on in that process. We're lining up GM interviews for the combine. And we just appreciate you being here. So if you can, give us a doubt, you know, subscribe, like, tell a friend. Don't make me beg.

It's not a good side. I'll beg. I know you will. And mentuals continue to be feisty, but look forward to talking to you in a couple of days. We'll see you soon. Thanks. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.

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