The McShay Show - Talking Brendan Sorsby, Arch Manning, and the 2027 Class With Albert Breer

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by breaking down the tape on Texas Tech QB Brendan Sorsby and debating whether he's worth a first-round pick in a potential supplemental NFL draft. Then, they’re joined by SI’s Albert Breer to discuss his latest reporting on Sorsby and what the league is saying about Arch Manning. To close, Muench shares highlights from his Las Vegas Phish trip.0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!2:30 Evaluating Brendan Sorsby as an NFL prospect22:40 Comparing Sorsby to the 2027 QB draft class25:30 Projecting Sorsby's value in the supplemental draft36:00 Albert Breer joins the show36:45 The latest news on Brendan Sorsby46:20 What could a potential suspension look like?53:50 Will NFL teams have access to Sorsby before a supplemental draft?56:30 Projecting Arch Manning's draft stock1:05:35 Recapping Muench's Vegas tripThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve Muench, Albert BreerProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Abou Kamara Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

MENCH is back from Vegas. It's the summer of Sorsby. An arts preseason hype 2.0. Just 359 days until the NFL draft. Bench, you good? I'm sick again. This travel's wearing me out, man. I mean, that's what you get for going to Vegas right after the draft.

I know. Tucker, roll that beat, please. We took five well-deserved days off after the way too early mock draft in a week of the draft out in L.A. And months of draft cramming, right? Yeah. And listen, we're not done reviewing. We're not going to pretend like 2026 didn't happen, you know.

We'll be back on Thursday with more review and kind of deep diving into certain aspects of the draft that we just wrapped up. But since we were gone, and we actually touched on it in the way too early mock draft, we talked about it in the beginning, the news had done. just broken from Pete Thammel. And since then, there's been a lot of really interesting stories. I've had some conversation with people in the league. I've had some conversations offline with Albert Breer, who's going to join us on this show.

And I'm thrilled to have them because quite honestly, there are some people who have broken the news and kind of update the news. But the one source who's really been on top of it and talking to people in the league. And from the Texas Tech NIL angle to the NFL potential suspension, to the NFL potential suspension, to the potential for supplemental draft. All of those angles have been kind of unsurface, if you will, or dug into by Albert Breer. And so we thought there's nobody better to bring on the show today to talk about it.

I want to start here, though, and we'll get to Mench. You know, Mench has got his old travel log. I haven't talked to him on purpose because I want to have a natural reaction to what he's going to share with us from his first venture to the sphere in Vegas for the, what was a widespread panic, Grateful Dead. Stop, don't start. Fish, you know it was fish.

Fish concert. So we got a fun show. But I wanted to start here, Steve. Brandon Sorsby, when putting together the way too early mock draft, is the Cincinnati quarterback who began his career at Indiana, who played last year and did some brilliant things. showed some of the greenness or rawness to his game that you would expect, but really got folks excited in the NFL and got Texas Tech so excited that they wound up giving him a $6 million NIL.

And then just recently, last Monday, I think the news broke, that he had been gambling over a thousand bets placed. there's reports that some of those bets were placed on Indiana, which can lead to as part of the NCAA rule book, that it can lead to permanent, like your permanent loss of eligibility. Yeah, while he was at Indiana, I don't know if people realized. He was at Indiana. He was at Indiana for two years before he went to Cincinnati for two years,

and now is at Texas Tech. He's kind of, you know, that's his journey. Right. As many quarterbacks and players have now with NIL and Transfer Portal being as it is. So I wanted to start here before we bring on Breer to talk about the news and talk about kind of the timeline coming up. The supplemental draft, usually you have to file by June 30th. And in the meantime, he is in a treatment center for gambling addiction, right? But he has hired lawyers, and we'll get to all the details, and Texas Tech has hired lawyers with the pursuit of

suspend me, we'll take almost a plea bargain, you know, a plea deal, and suspend me for X amount of games, but allow me to finish the season as the quarterback for Texas Tech, as I'm being paid to be an exorbitant amount of money for a college player, $6 million, as we said. So all of that is in the works. But there's this supplemental draft, because there's a lot of people out there that I talk to are like,

the NCAA is going to draw a line in the sand here. Right. If the reports are true and you're gambling on, even if you're not playing and gambling on your own team, your own program, that the NCAA can't turn a blind eye or take a sweet deal in the player's favor. That'd be a terrible precedent for them. They cannot do it. Right. So the NFL right now is in this, I mean, personnel people, security groups. You know, each team has their own security.

each team has their own psychological, you know, testing and department, if you will. There's a lot that's being done behind the scenes right now. So our baseline is always the tape. And I'll be honest with you. I've obviously watched him. I had done some games last season. There was talk, don't forget, of him entering the 2026 draft. Right.

This year's draft. And so I started that process. and then he decided to take that NAL deal, and I kind of walked away. So in the last 48 hours, I've gone back and I've studied every tape of his, with the exception, I think it was Northwestern State and Bowling Green.

Those are the two I didn't watch. They open with Nebraska and then Bowling Green. Then there was those two. I didn't watch those two and watch the other games, okay? And it was a long tape study because I'm not going to come on here and give you my opinion. and I know the same is true for Mensch without having done the work.

And so I have some strong opinions, like really strong opinions on Brendan Sorsby. But I want to start with you, Munch, because I know you did the same, and I want to hear what your thoughts are on Sorsby, and I'll follow up with some of my thoughts. Well, first I get the excitement. I understand when you're looking at a guy who's at 6-3-235, that's what he's listed at, and you look at the way he moves, you look how strong he is.

You look at his ability to extend plays, move the pocket. All of that stuff is very exciting to me. I had more concerns after watching his and tape than I thought. And when you look at the stats and you're looking at that touchdown interception ratio of 27 to 5, it really jumps out to of, oh, maybe this is a guy who takes care of the football. I mean, the first play of the Arizona game and the last play of the Nebraska game

jump out as a guy who maybe doesn't really know. how to read, do full field reads yet. And we'll throw the ball up for grabs a little bit and make some, some questionable decisions. So I thought that stat was a little misleading to me. And then on top of that, the other thing that really jumped out to me was the lower body mechanics are kind of a mess. A lot of flat-footed throws, not really following through, affects his accuracy. He's high on some throws.

He's missing within the strike zone a little bit. So I think it's interesting about how you're going to have to develop him a little bit. and it would have been good for him to have gotten another year in college to be blunt about it. But I get the excitement because all the tools are there. Even when he's not stepping into throws, he's able to get the ball there. I like to see what his real kind of arm strength is when he can really play it and drive and drive the ball downfield because I think it's going to be impressive. But he was a little more raw.

And I thought he was raw, but he was a little more raw than I anticipated when I went back and watched the tape. Yeah, I don't disagree. And I'm just looking up something. I don't disagree. I saw all those things, right? Here's what's interesting about Sorsby for as talented as he is and the way he's viewed

and said league scouting departments. I don't feel like nationally folks know him as well as you would think at this point and certainly not to the level, right, of like Archmanning, Dante Moore, Julian Sane. You know what I mean? Right.

So I think it's important that we provide, and I think that was a really good jumping off point, like 6-3, 235. We've told you he started Indiana a couple of years. Then he went to, began his career at Indiana. Yeah, he didn't start. He's only got two years of starting experience. So then two years of the starter at Cincinnati and is looking for his third years, a starter. Not dissimilar from like Jaden Daniels looking for that one more year, a Cam Ward looking for that one more year in a new place. Mendoza, you know, who had a year in three quarters or whatever it was at Cal,

that one last year to rinse, refine, repeat in a new system with new supporting cast and a lot of excitement for it. Here's how I would frame it, right? Sorsby, to me, is a young man and a quarterback who's attempting to major. in pocket passing. But I would give him a C grade in that department, right? He's a C student in his major. Okay? And I'll get to all the reasons why.

But he's double minoring, okay? He's double minoring and it's like, I don't know, Dean's list material in two minors, right? Yep. Those miners are scrambling to extend. and the creativity part of it. And he's like, and A, Stu, brilliant in that, in that, in that, in that, in that, in that minor.

And his other minor is, as a running threat. Yes. Design runs or taking off and exposing, this is the thing I think he does beautifully. You try to play man to man against the son of a gun. Good luck. Don't turn your back to him. Yeah. Nebraska, that first game learned real quickly and people picked up on,

we bet we can't turn our back on this young man. man. All right. So that's what C student in his major, but Dean's list in his two minors. But in that major, the pocket passing, my goodness, he has a lot of potential, right? So let's start with the negatives, and you touched on them. Part of the inaccuracies stem from lazy with feet, not dissimilar from Arch Manning, right? Not dissimilar from Cam Ward coming up. Not dissimilar from Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hertz, okay? Not dissimilar from these guys.

There are throws, though, that he makes inside the pocket when his feet are right, where he anticipates and he drills strikes into holes that are hard throws. Also the negatives. Like, it was interesting because, like, red zone fades and certain touch throws that aren't, like, deep drive. throws, he underthrew a lot, which, excuse me, I don't totally mind because I'm of the preference of put the ball up, let your receiver come back, because what typically happens there is if the defender has back to the quarterback, receiver now is coming back to the ball and either can go up and make a play or can draw an interference because now the defensive back is not only

back turned and trying to get, you know, the technique of, they call it a belt buckle through helmet. But now the receiver's coming back and there's a lot of penalties drawn and we saw that on tape. I'm sure you did too. And then the deep drive throws are different. Those are the ones he overthrew a lot. There were a lot, there was,

you could put together a whole catalog of deep throws overthrown. Yep. And then sideline touch throws, whether it's a wheel route, a fade, back shoulders, you know, those kind of things. Those whole balls, yeah. Whole balls that require some touch and finesse that just sail out of bounds. Like a whole real, okay?

And there were decision-making points where it's like, oh. Like I'll give you for example, Kansas, right? Yep. Fourth and 10, minute five left fourth quarter. They're down four points to Kansas trying to, you know, game-winning drive. don't wind up doing it, but there's a conversion he has hanging in the pocket, making that throw in that moment, fourth and ten, waits for it patiently. I'm not saying full field, but middle field over to his left,

drills a strike, first down, keep it rolling, right? But if I just tell you about that play, I'm not, I'm doing a disservice because the play before that was a third and ten. Same situation. Game win, potential game winning drive. Down four points. There's still a fourth down to be played. And pressure comes off balance, terrible decision.

Puts it up like cardinal, two cardinal sins for quarterbacks. Don't throw back in the middle of the field against your body. Yep. The other one is don't throw high up for grabs middle of the field. Yeah. And he got away with it on third and ten because the safety couldn't come back and make the play. But there were two defenders there. He puts it up.

His receiver has no chance. ball is kind of sailing and hags, and he's lucky that he gets a fourth down to make that conversion. One example, you gave me a couple examples. So, like, there's a trend there where the decision making is not where it needs to be. Now, let's touch on the positives. He is 6-3. He is 230, 235. He, as a runner, let's start there,

because that's probably his best trait. When he takes off running, man, like I remember it's like this, no one's Lamar, right? I'm not saying he's right. But there are elements of these three guys that kept popping in my head. And you could even throw in four. But I remember the Texas Tech version,

and we still see flashes of it from Patrick Mahomes. It's kind of like that, you know, scrambling around and just like had like a sixth sense of this vision. kind of this suddenness, but he's not very fast, right? Yep. And there's elements of like, of Josh Allen and Jackson's daughter. Yeah.

He's got some power, right? And I would even throw in like some Jalen Hertz. Right? So you've got that mobility. And there's design runs, but quite honestly, like, that Nebraska game, man, and there were several games, but that Nebraska game before they realized, like, we can't turn our back on this guy. When he hangs in the,

that's why I said he's trying, he's attempting to major in pocket passing. Because he truly does get back there, get his feet set, try to survey the field, do the right things. But at the end of the day, what winds up happening is

if he's not comfortable with the read or whatever it is, he takes off and he's got this suddenness to him. All of a sudden, the energy on the field changes when he decides, I'm taking this ball and running. And it's like this acceleration and a little bit of Twitch and then power at the end of run. So that part's awesome. Okay.

Awesome. That's why people are saying about him. That's in part, yes. And probably the thing that you know right away is going to translate and by him time as he's learning the other aspects of the game. And I'll get to that in a minute. The other part is like he has this whip delivery and the ball snaps off his hand. And when he drills it and he's not trying to, you know, put it up and fades and different things on the sideline, he's got a lot of energy on the ball. And there are for the inconsistency, I promise you, there are throws that he makes.

Like Josh Allen missed like the broad side of a barn sometimes throwing at Wyoming. And it was like, well, how does he miss that bad on that throw? But then there's other throws, right? where it's in anticipation, hitting a spot. And you almost, this push pull of was receivers weren't great at Wyoming. When he gets to the NFL, is it going to be like he's almost too advanced for his receivers? It's not the case at Cincinnati. They're not great receivers, but they had a couple good ones that were in this last draft.

I thought they failed him sometimes, but it wasn't the same experience watching Josh Allen. But what was similar was I saw a lot of throws that I'm like, all right, if he can do that, there's an accuracy and ball placement element and an anticipation element to his game that is hard to find. That I didn't think Jalen Hertz had coming out.

I didn't think Lamar Jackson had coming out. I knew Josh Allen did, but the concerns with Josh was there was a whole reel of throws where it's like, how do you miss that, right? Yep. And can he kind of temper the velocity and get it where like touch and all that? So that's where I am on all of it.

To your point, my man just needs more ball. He needs more snaps. It's not dissimilar from the experience watching Mendoza at Cal where you're like, this is a first rounder. More importantly, this is a starting quarterback in the league if he can refine some of the. these things. But I promised you, and I don't know, I forget the year, it was it 20, 2015, whatever it was with Mahomes came out, and Josh Allen coming out, and Lamar Jackson coming out,

and Jalen Hertz coming out. I'm evolving as an evaluator just, and if you don't evolve, you cease to exist, right? True. And those players, forced me. I was stuck in a trap, and I've told the story before, I was stuck in a trap as an evaluator, Mench, where I grew up in this industry and obviously playing quarterback, but grew up and even being around like the Jaworskis and some people and talking to quarterback coaches and where it was like, it's all about the mechanics, but none of those guys could run. We were evaluating six foot four, 225 to 230 pound quarterbacks who played inside the pocket and had to make their reeds very quickly.

And they had to throw accurately, and they had to have the mechanics down. The ball had to come out quickly. It was all those things. That was the league then. The league has changed. And the league now, when you have this mobility coming in, Alan, Jackson, hurts, right?

Yeah. And we go beyond. It affords you the ability to maybe not have all the answers pre-snap, and then immediately post-snap off of what you're seeing. It affords you the ability to maybe not decide to decide against making a throw because you don't trust it yet. It affords you the ability, quite honestly, to miss some throws. Because the next down, you can take off running, you can extend.

And the big plays, they overcome some of the mistakes, right? Yeah. And so my mindset has changed on all of this. Now, here's the rub, okay? And I like, listen, I could give you all of these plays. I wrote down 100 plays. Like 1149 second quarter against Utah. Absolutely insane throw.

Why are you laughing? Because you wrote down 100 plays, of course you did. I'm only going to give you two. Okay. That's that, like, rolling to his right, defender in his face, arm slot change, right? Yeah. And not just the arm slot change and throwing to a receiver staring at him. The receiver, the DBs here.

The receiver's behind him and crosses behind him only because the ball comes out, sidearm and goes towards the sideline and run and throws him open, that cliche. But he does. The receiver runs to the ball because Sorsby put the ball in a spot where the receiver had to get there. And it was like the defender had the receiver behind him. And all of a sudden the receiver goes and it's next one, 1310 first quarter, state that slide in the pocket sidearm sling that's my home stuff and so my mindset has changed and i look at this just on paper on tape with all the other stuff put aside and i'm like

fuck it all you can't coach what he has right okay but you can't coach up what he has. Okay. The league has coached up Josh Allen, Brian Dable early in his career. The league has coached up Jalen Hertz with Siriani and some of the different,

and what's his name? Stuyken, right? Yep. The league has coached up Lamar. The league has, you know what I mean? So here's where I am. He's more physically gifted than Arch.

he's more physically gifted. He is more physically gifted than Arch. He's more of running. I'm not ready to go there, but I love that you are. I think they're, I mean, they're right there. I hear you. I trust Arch Moore. Not even just throw out the pedigree.

Make him Arch Smith. The character stuff, the team, like you talk to Sark. You talk, like, I've talked to Sark. I've talked to Arch myself. There's a, there's a maturity. about him and the teammate factor of it and the responsibility and the way he handles things.

I trust Archmore. Sorsby's more gifted. Dante's a better pure passer, no question. Right. But he's not as talented and doesn't have some of the insane stuff that Sorsby can do. I only say that because

Arch, I mean, sorry, Josh Allen, Lamar, Jalen Hertz, were not the products that we see now on Sunday. And I know Hertz is going through all the stuff. Hertz has won two Super Bowls, okay? Yeah. And even if you throw him out,

Josh is not what we saw at Wyoming. Lamar is not what we saw at Louisville. Sorsby can get coached up to the best version of himself. And if he reaches that, it's special. These guys are hard to find, man, okay? So let me just say this really quickly. Really quickly. I compare Lenora Sellers to Josh Allen,

coming out of Wyoming and you almost you almost kick me off the show. I just think, you know, I get it. Well, one is six, five. Sellers is like six, one. I've stood next to Sellers and he's built like a brick, but go ahead. Yeah, I just, I get it. He's a little bit taller. I just think that what you're going to run into here is we're having the tape conversation

and now we're kind of transitioning to what you can get as a player. and I'm having a difficult time not recognizing the depth of the class and I'm having a difficult time not recognizing the situation and maybe I should be waiting for you to get to that point. Well, this is where I am and I'm glad this is exactly where I'm going. I am now as a general manager and I've talked to a couple teams in the league. And I also talk to an executive at a different sport.

Interesting. A guy that I've talked to about like potentially one day if we ever, you know, like when in the league, like someone I trust implicitly with smarter decisions, not smart, risk aversion. Yep. And the answer is all the same.

Team psychologist, security, like my former FBI agents working for my team. We are, this could be the most important decision of our organization for the next decade. I've got to get to a place where I'm comfortable. I've got to not only psychologically dig in and find ways to see, what am I getting? Can I trust this young man? I've got to then talk to people who are smarter than me about supporting him. And I'm talking about rehab and continue, like, therapy and support, right? Working at it, yep.

I'm talking to my cap guy and my lawyers and my contract people. This is how deep I've gone in the last, honestly, started Wednesday. I'm talking to my cap guy and my lawyers about what can we put in the contract to prevent this from happening and also to protect our investment, our organization. Should he, I don't want to relapse or should he? Right. Should this go an unfortunate way?

Right. And I'm, if I'm the, I don't know, the Browns, the, obviously the dolphin, I'm, Well, the Dolphins, I mean, they were really entertaining some quarterbacks. More importantly, like the Jets. The Jets, yeah, the Cardinals. The Cardinals. And I'm like, I'm meeting as if this is April 1st or maybe March 15th with my staff right now. Like, come back.

We have big group meetings. Because if we have the quarterback coach and we have the contract the right way, we have the psychologist putting a stamp on it, We have the FBI agents working in the security department in our organization. If we can get aligned and say collectively, we are comfortable taking this risk, I'm not batting an eye, man. Because I now, as the general, hear me out, I now is the general manager. And I know that that's the biggest if in the world.

And if we come back and everyone's like, we're restricted in the contracts, we don't feel like we could support properly or we give him more money, free time and fame than he's, ever had before. This is going to arise again. The psychologist is like, you know, I've really worked with him or talking to people around him. This is something that's going to come back to bite us. If that's the answer, then, okay, go, enjoy a little downtime and let's get back to work on everything else for our organization. But if the answer is we have a support staff, the legal team, the psychologist, and everyone on board, my job then as the general manager is to say, this guy's

worth it. And what I'm telling you, Steve, I think this guy's worth it. And if that's the case, I get to draft him and I'm doing it with a first round pick, whether it's late June or July, whenever this supplemental draft happens, if it happens, and we'll get to Brewer in a minute, okay? Yeah. I'm doing it with a first round pick because I'm not risking it. I'm not risking it. I want this guy. It's not like, oh, it would be great to get him with a second round pick. I'm going and getting this guy. And I'm doing that because I think he's, got a chance to be special. Like not just a really good quarterback in the league.

I think he's got a chance to be special. And so I'm not waiting to the second round and hoping that he gets to us in this blind auction. I'm doing it now. And I'm taking him and I'm getting him in the building and we'll deal with the legal aspect. Are you getting him in the building? Well, let's talk to Breer and get more details

on what he's hearing. True things that you jump out to me. Like, are you getting him in the building? And what kind of access do you have to this young man that you're getting all this information? Like, are you even, like, I don't know, the supplemental draft, it's not like you have interviews at the Combine,

interviews at the senior role. I don't know what kind of access you have to do. It's 2026, and I have infinite resources. There are private planes going, there is nothing like, can you sit down with him? Is that even like, does the agent give you access? Like, I don't know. I hear what you're saying at the end of the day.

If they don't and I'm getting stonewall, then we're not doing it. We're not even showing up for the supplement. We're not even jumping on the call. Like, what if the take is he's right now taking care of himself and getting his mind right? And we don't think that the pressure of him interviewing. Like, there's a number of different things. I think it's a more complicated situation.

Also, the way you're talking, like, just tell me right now, you think he's the best quarterback in this class? I think he has a chance to be when it's all said and done. That's not what I'm asking. I can tell you eight guys I have a chance to him. I trust him the least. I trust him the least, Steve. Great. Then that's why you're not spending a first round pick on him and you're waiting

until the next year's draft, and you're taking a guy like Arch Manning, Lenora Sellers, I mean, go down the list. Sam Levitt might be a better option. CJ Carr, this Julian saying,

this class is loaded. But if I hit on this guy, I could have, if I hit on Sorsby, and I protect him and support him and develop him, yep, I'm telling you he's got a chance to be better than Arch and Dante and saying and,

and sellers and all of them. I think you risk, version guy might want to sit down and have a discussion. I talk to him. I know you're in love with the player and I'm in love with the tape. And I get it. I know why you're excited. He is, if we're having a conversation. And he's not even there yet. I get it. But I'm not allowing

a Mahomes to happen to me again. I'm not allowing that to happen. I think I could have something in the neighborhood of, so what? So what? So what? So what? If you're a jet fan, look at all the quarterbacks they've drafted and

Well, the judges have three first round picks next year. So they... Three of them. Okay. So I bring Sorsby in and for some reason I'm able to unearth that it's, oh my gosh, this isn't going to work. I still have two next year.

Who are you? I'm Todd McShay. You think it's okay to take a quarterback of the first round and be like, oh, we, it didn't work out. We'll just take another one right now. That is not managing your assets. The Cardinals did with Rosen and then the next year they took, they took Kyler Murray. And how to work out?

they won some games. One more than they would have with Rosen. I love you so much. That's an organizational issue. That's an organization. That is an organizational issue. You know what the organizational issue is? They drafted Josh Rosen.

And one of them was an outlier. And one of them was an outlier in Kyler Murray. And it has a fatal flaw. Sorry. And then you have Josh Rosen, which was a poor evaluation. I'm sorry. That is an organizational issue. I'm telling you.

and I want let's let's bring in brere let's bring in brayer I get the excitement man I get the excitement I really want you to understand that like I get why you're excited and I'm not blind to all of the other stuff

and I put in a bunch of ifs there if the psychologist if the lawyers if the contract guys if like those are a lot of ifs yeah but if I'm cleared to take him in round two I'm taking them in round one

sorry we can agree to disagree yeah then you're not getting And I'll be hoisting a Lombardi with one of the special quarterbacks in the league if it all pans out. It's a risk. I'm more, there's no other position that you would take this kind of risk for in that round of a supplemental draft with all of this burden hanging over Sorsby. Yeah, I think you're talking about the Josh Allen's, but you're not talking about the Jamarcus Russell.

You're not talking about some of the guys that, these bigger frame guys that can move pretty well that didn't, You know, like, this couldn't move. Yeah, he couldn't move. You're right. But like, there's just, there's other quarterbacks who you could get excited about the frame and the arm strength and the, and their tape wasn't that good. Not everyone makes the, the Josh Allen leap. And you're hoping that this guy does. But like, man, it is a risk.

It is a big time risk. Well, that's why I drive 85 in the fast lane and you drive 63 in the, in the soul lane. We're just, we're different like that. And there's nothing wrong with that. No, there isn't. And honestly, I think it's why we've always complimented one another well. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

I do think it's funny. But if I go watch him hoist a Lombardi somewhere else, we've been close friends. We're dear friends, family friends. I consider you an extension of family. I'm firing your ass if I'm capable in that organization. If he's hoisted a trophy with a different uniform on one day. Yeah.

I'm making you watch it on a repeat. as I hate the termination letters. I hope the best for him. I think he is a super talented kid. I get all the excitement. When you have this class coming up, you're going to use a first round pick on a guy that's, there are some things there.

He has a chance to be the best in one of the best, in one of, if not the best quarterback class that we've ever had in the air. Do you think that Arch Manning has the chance to be the best? Yeah. Yeah, me too. I think his, Yeah, I think he has a chance to be the best. I think Dante has a chance to be the best.

I think it honestly will come down to where's the development this year in terms of how comfortable you are and where you slot them. And then I think most importantly, as is the case with all these quarterbacks, I think where he lands and how he's utilized. Yeah. It always plays a major factor into it. Yeah, there's more, there's more booming. with Soresby than any other quarterback in that projected in that 2027 class.

But the boom is higher than all of them. He and Sellers have the highest boom. Yeah. In my opinion. Okay. Yeah, I agree. All right. This is a good time to bring in Brewer, maybe get some details and work through this.

I'll pitch to him. It's not insane. It's not insane. Oh, no, no, no. It's not. It's, I think it's out of care, a little bit out of character for you, but insane is a, that's, that's not a term I would use. Let's bring it. It's not what I would, I don't agree with you.

It's just not, I don't, I wouldn't say insane. Let's bring in our mediator brier. And there he is. What's up, Bert? What's up, guys? I'm trying to get centered here in the box. I think I'm okay, right? I'm doing the same.

I fidget it too much for these things. You're like our kids. Yeah. Still 12 year old, still 12 years old at heart. for sure. So we're bringing you on in part, mostly for all the information. I was telling everybody, like, it's at Albert Breer, Sports Illustrated. The Monday morning quarterback is the absolute must read in the NFL, as everyone knows,

but a reminder there. But I was saying, like, there are people who are reporting, like, kind of the updates and stuff, but you've dug in, and you and I talked offline right after the draft a little bit about it. But you're following up and just getting all the information plus like sources and talking to people about what they think on on Brendan Sorsby. Yeah, it's an interesting one because I can't remember, I mean, man, you'd have to go back to like Josh Gordon the last time there was, you know, a guy potentially in a supplemental draft. It's intriguing. And so, you know, like really kind of like where I started was trying to figure out exactly where the NCAA was going to land on

this. And it sounds to me like it's going to be difficult for him to to get in to get back into college football. I think the NCAA feels like they got to set a precedent here. Now, you guys have heard the news. They hired Jeffrey Kessler, who's sort of like a boogeyman for all the sports leagues, you know. And I don't think that the intention of Sorsby or the Texas tech camp is to get into some protracted legal battle. And I don't think they're on. I don't think they're, you know, are arming themselves for that, even though this does effectively do that. I think what they'd like to do is try to drive this thing to a conclusion as fast as they can. So they bring in Kessler, techs brought in their own lawyers to try to find a way, like,

is there some sort of settlement that we could come to here or maybe we could negotiate a suspension? The kid wants to play college football. Obviously, tech wants him back. So, like, can we find a way to drive ourselves to that, to some sort of conclusion where he plays college football this year? And if that doesn't work, I think he'll probably wind up in the supplemental draft. And again, you know, for some of the teams involved here, I mean, there are four teams to me that have kind of kept their powder dry on that. That'd be the Jets, the Cardinals, the Browns, and the Dolphins, just as far as having a quarterback for the future and would definitely be in play for quarterbacks high in the 27 draft, this is something you really have to consider. because I think Brendan Sorgeby would have been on everybody's list among the top guys to look at in the fall.

So, and we'll jump right back to that in a second, but just for folks tuning in, I had to brush up on my supplemental draft knowledge, right? The 30th is typically the deadline. I want you to basically correct me where I'm wrong, but I'll lay this out and you tell me where I'm off or expand upon it. The 30th of June? Sorry, 30th of June. Yes, yeah. Okay. Thank you, Steve.

is typically the deadline for the supplemental draft. It's not a, my understanding, it's not like a hard and fast line in the sand. It has to be that, you know, that date. And could obviously be adjusted based off of how long this legal battle goes on that you just laid out. We haven't had a supplemental draft since 2023. Yep. And there was no player drafted then. There was another player that was eligible for the supplemental draft in 2020.

He wasn't drafted. You got to go back to 2019. Jalen Thompson, who's still in the league, just signed a contract, where a player was drafted. I think the two that really jump out to people probably, and you just touch on one, was Josh Gordon with the drug suspension and what he was going through. And then Terrell Pryor, as well, with the tattoo gate and I think his shoes. all that involved in Ohio State. So this is not, and because of the NIL and the transfer portal, this used to be an annual thing that we would have sometimes up to like,

I remember during my career like six to eight guys who were in the supplemental draft. We've kind of gotten away from it because there's a safe harbor of transferring an NIL and all of that for these players. I also think it's important for this conversation because we just looked this up. and this is where you can correct me if I'm wrong. It used to be like an email process and it lasted about 10 minutes. But how they structure it is, teams with six losses or fewer are in a tier.

And then the second tier for the supplemental draft order, I should say. The second tier is all teams with seven losses or more but non-playoff. And then the third tier is the 14 playoff. teams from last season. Right. And it's kind of randomly selected, this was news to me, randomly selected within each of those tiers. So with all of that said, that random selection could be really important, whether it's

first round or second round. And I want to give you this background. Mench is more, I'd consider him in the second round. I just finished up all of his tape and I'd seen him and I'd done some stuff because I thought he might be in the last year's draft. but I just completed it. I see the risk. I don't trust him like I trust Arch or Dante,

off the field and on. I don't think he's where he needs to be as a passer. But I also didn't think Lamar was, and I didn't think Jalen Hertz was, and I didn't think Josh Allen was in different regards. And I didn't think Mahomes was. And I learned some hard lessons on those guys. And I'm not willing, Breer,

if my psychologist and my lawyers and my contract guy and my security team all come back and we have big meetings and quite honestly if I'm the Browns, if I'm the Cardinals, I'm the dolphins and I'm the Jets, I'm having some real serious conversations right now and I'm deploying people to try to get as much information as possible because this guy is the most talented in my mind physically. Can I clean it up?

Might be the most, might be the what? Can I clean it up a bit? If he's, if Soresby's in the 2027 draft, he is a top 10 pick. I mean, that that I know. What I'm saying is that there's not, I don't have enough information right now. Right. I don't have enough information now to really feel comfortable spending a first round pick on the game. But I preface all of this.

I'm giving you all this information, Burke, because I know you've talked to people in the league. Where, if you had to guess based off of those conversations, what are you hearing? I think, I think it's definitely possible that you can. could see a team that thinks it's going to be drafting low in the first round in 2020, 2027, taking that swing. Like Pittsburgh, for example, let's say Aaron Rogers comes back. Like, the Steelers may not have an avenue to find their next quarterback. Would it be worth it to them to not only get Brendan Sorsby, but then you get

Brendan Sorsby into the room now where he gets to go learn from Aaron Rogers for a year, you know, and then he's part of a competition in 2027. you essentially get to train him for a year where you wouldn't have gotten to if you had taken one in 27 anyway. Minnesota is another one. Like, how do you feel after OTAs about Kyler Murray, right? And J.J. McCarthy.

Because remember, like, right now they don't know. They're going to have more information two months from now on where Kyler Murray is, on where J.J. McCarthy is. So they may say to themselves, like, we think we're going to be pretty good this year. We're probably not going to be in position to take one. We like Kyler. We like J.J., but, man,

I don't know if either of those guys are our future, do they take a swing and what they think is going to be with what they think is going to be a low first round pick? I think it gets a little harder when you get to the conversation about the high, the teams that are going to be drafting high in the first round, right? And the four teams I mentioned, I think we can all agree there's a good likelihood that they'll be there. The Jets, the Browns, the Dolphins, and the Cardinals. And if you're one of those teams, do you view it? Because I think you essentially, what you essentially,

be doing there is you be saying we like this guy more now than we think we're going to like any of the guys in 2027 and todd you are the one who who you know kind of shine to light it on on it for me all the way back in February and there's a dozen guys in that list you know what I mean like now it doesn't mean there it doesn't mean there'll be 12 first round picks but when you're working with that sort of list of guys that have a shot to get there I mean it's it's it can be tough to say like we're willing to pass on all of those guys and what all of those guys might become to take the chance on Swordsby now. So I think that that's a part of a greater equation. And, you know, with the Jets, you're talking about a team that has three first round picks, you know, so I think the-

They would have to use their first round pick. I think so, you know what? I have to check on that, though. Because I think that's what we read off-line. I think that's right. I think that's right. But could you say to the league, like, all right, we're, you know, because you mentioned the different like pod, tiers of picks, right? Different tiers of picks. Could they say, we're not willing to go that with our own, but we will go there with the Packers pick or the Cowell? They could, I guess, right? Like, I'd have to look into that more.

I'm not sure what the rule is on that. But I think the overall question is, you know, if you're one of these teams that has a serious need at the position, as important as the position is and how I think some people in the league view this guy. It really, a lot of it's going to boil down to, like, having an honest conversation internally, how good are we going to be next year? And are we going to play our way out of having a pick that's going to be in the range to take a Dante Moore, C.J. Carr or an Archmanning. We'll see.

You said you'd get him in the building. Are we certain that the league won't just suspend him for a year? I'm really glad you brought that. I'm really glad you brought that up, Mitch. Should we be looking at the prior suspension or should we be looking at the Calvin Ridley suspension as potentially what could happen here? Yeah, I think it's fair to look at all of that.

You know, and that's the part that's tricky about this. And I think that that's why if I'm Sorsby's people, if I'm Jeffrey Kessler, I'm probably looking for clarity from the NFL on that too. Like concurrently while you're fighting the NCAA case, you're also talking to the NFL and saying, like, look, like we understand this. is a sticky case for you guys. You guys are in business with all the gambling companies.

This is obviously like un- this is this is uncharted territory. There's no, there's no precedent for this. There's no specific precedent for this. We're all an uncharted territory. So could you please give us some sort of roadmap to where you're going here? So that not only we have an idea, but the teams have an idea of what they're getting into if they draft Brendan, you know? I mean, I think the, the obvious, well, there's the Ridley precedent. I think the obvious supplemental draft precedent here would be the Terrell prior president, right? President, right? If you remember, the whole thing in that case was that the NCAA did suspend Trell Pryor for six games. And then Terrell Pryor made the decision into made the decision, okay, I'm going to go into the supplemental draft. And the NFL was concerned about being safe

harbor for guys who had NCAA violations. So they said, well, we don't want this to be a situation. where it's just a get out of jail free card for anybody. So we're going to match the suspension, right? And then if you remember, there was a Jim Tressel. Elnip set too. Jim Tressel wound up with the Colts. And so now he's suspended for six games as well. It was a big mess.

But, you know, I think that, like, that would be the precedent here. The issue is, like, the NCAA could just revoke. Like, I think it's, if you look at the rule, the NCAA may just revoke his eligibility altogether. It feels kind of more likely that that happens, right? Right. It feels it feels like that's what happened. Right. I mean, reading your article and digging in a little bit, like it is, it is lot, it is black and white on the eligibility for gambling. I mean, that's why, Todd, not sorry to jump in, but that's why, like, I think it's going to be hard for the kid to get an injunction, you know, in court. It's like that, like to get an injunction in court, for people who don't

know, I know you guys. do. But the way this would work is like he would file a lawsuit against the NCAA and then they would file for an injunction, which would allow him to participate with the team in play while the case is still in court. Well, to get an injunction, generally you have to prove that there's a likelihood that you're going to win the case. And in this case, like, unless you've got like a super Texas tech friendly judge in Lubbock or something like that, it would seem like this is like, like it's hard to say that there's a likelihood he wins the case when he's basically admitted

to the wrongdoing and the rule is so black and white. I know so much of this emphasis has been on the NFL and the supplemental draft and that's kind of what intrigues us heavily, let's not say the most. But I know you've also in your digging

with Texas Tech. Like I think it's kind of being not overlooked but from a Texas Tech perspective, they dished out $6 million in the quarterback that we're talking about is, let's be conservative and say one of the five most talented quarterbacks in the country. And we know where that program has been, you know, in the last 365 days and where it absolutely with the El Madador Club continues to want to be.

Like the bar is very high now. But now you don't have, like this quarterback is almost certain. not going to be there all season, but it's not very likely that he's going to be able to even play. How, I mean, how invested, how much money are they willing to put in? More importantly, what's the patience level for how long this could take if you're Texas Tech? Well, you know, Cody Campbell, I've learned a lot about him in a couple of weeks. Right. I knew about him a little bit. I know about him more now. and he's got very deep pockets and badly wants Texas Tech to win.

So how badly we'll see. I do think they've got a kid there. I think is Will Hammond the name, I think, right? Yeah. We both like Will Hammond a lot. He's really talented. I like Will Hammond, yeah. Start in a few games.

It gives them a safety net, right? So it's like either like, you know, we, you know, I think it gives them some flexibility, where it's just, all right, worse comes to worse. And he's coming back off in ACL. But like worse comes to worse, Will Hammond is our quarterback. For right now, like, let's show Brendan Sorsby, like, the support. And they, and look, tech is lowering up too. Like, that's the other part of it, this that to me is really interesting.

It's not just Soresby lowering up. Right. Tech lowering up too. So you have this all-star team that's kind of come together. And, you know, I, what I'm interested to see is so. again, I think Soresby's camp, the priority right now is trying to reach a conclusion on what the NCA is going to do as fast as they possibly can. Yeah. My question becomes then do the tech lawyers and the Sorsby lawyers, are they on the same page as to what happens when, if he's banished, right?

Right. Because like if if if if it gets awkward fast. Huh? Yes. We're on the same team until. Right. Because then does it go from like, all right, we're still, the tech lawyers are well, well, we're still fighting.

We still want to get you into school. So let's go get an injunction to like, well, wait a minute. Like let's hear from the NFL now. So I think there are there are some interesting pieces to the way all this comes together. Because again, you've got lawyers from both sides of, of, of that involved here. Here. other thing Steve and I were talking about before you jumped in with us. How accessible, because we know he's now in a treatment facility, how accessible is this quarterback

that could be in a supplemental draft that we could use a first or second round draft pick on. And we know what goes into evaluating quarterbacks and the private workouts and the visits and the interviews and like everything that should go into an investment you're making that could be upwards of 40 plus million dollars over over a four-year rookie contract before that fifth year option if it if he is a first round pick or significantly less than second round but you're still drafting him to potentially be the quarterback of your future you want to as coaches and scouts always say get your hands on him like you get some time with him figure out where he is talk to him understand how he would get him on the board run through some tape but he's in a treatment

facility right now and we've got all the legal aspects of it. Do you have any sense of what that process would be like if, okay, the moment hits where eligibility is lost, he's going to the supplemental draft. What is the process for NFL scouting departments and coaching staff if they truly are interested in Sorsby? Yeah, I remember, I mean, I can just tell you from like past experience and seeing what this was now. Like, I think it sort of depends on the level of prospect. But I remember when Josh Gordon was in the supplemental draft in 12, I believe he basically had like a pro day at Baylor. And, you know, they made, they made them available to the teams while they were there. And, you know, it sort of becomes, okay, like, what level of personnel are they sending?

Are they sending the area scout? Are they sending the general manager? Are they sending the position coach? Are they sending the head coach? And I would think if you were looking at investing, you know, a first or second round pick in the guy, like, then you would be sending heavy hitters there, you know? And I think that that piece of it to me is going to be really interesting. And again, I think that's why they're trying to drive towards a conclusion early so they can do some of this stuff. Now, I don't know the calendar for his treatment schedule,

right? So I don't know whether or not he's going to be out in a week, Memorial Day, middle of June. I'm not sure on that. And I think that probably depends on how some of that goes. But, you know, I certainly think that they would want to have some sort of pro day and he'd go through a pro day workout. And then there would be teams in town and they would meet with him. And then, you know, I don't know what the rules are as far as bringing guys in and that sort of stuff. There'd be a medical aspect to it as well. But my guess would be given the importance of the position and the sort of pick you might be looking at investing him in him. they would want to jump through all the hoops that you normally would with a quarterback.

I just, stories just went up that I did this morning on how the Raiders vetted Fernando Mendoza. That was considered like a fade-of-complea, and it's still mind-blowing the amount of work, the amount of investment that the teams make into vetting guys at that position. And so I would expect that if you were one of those teams that was really interested in taking him on July 10th or 11th or whatever that date's going to be, you would probably do some sort of microwave version of what you normally do with the top quarterback. And again, you can check out his ex handle is at Albert Breer and the Monday morning quarterback

is like I said, must read. Also, and this is just transitioning here because before we let you go. And I get more stories from MENCH about the sphere and his trip to Vegas. And now all of a sudden he's sick. He's got a blood he's got a bloody nose and everything else. I wanted to touch real quickly on Arch Manning. And we have a whole summer and then a whole season and then a whole pre-draft to do all of this. But I thought it was interesting the NFL comp that you provided in the Monday morning quarterback.

And then some of the, just some of the context that you got talking to people in the league as we, I call it like we're entering into, you know, Arch preseason hype 2.0. You know, and it doesn't feel quite frankly. It doesn't feel as intense as it did before he had even been the starting quarter. quarterback last year. But we know it's going to start to ramp up. I'm going to give you another comp that I heard for him that, like, is going to sound like a shot, and it's not, okay? But somebody gave me this the other day that I thought it was interesting.

Now, you said the one that I had there was Justin Herbert, if things work out the right way. As far as, like, where he is right now, somebody said Justin Fields to me. And I thought that was really interesting. You know, as a guy who can make plays off schedule, who when everything is right, and, you know, his first read is open the plays going as it was drawn up. Like, he can make the throws. He can make the plays.

He's a big, strong athlete. You see all of the tools there, right? I think the mistake that a lot of people are making with him, just from, and again, I'm not an evaluator. I feel like I have to give that disclaimer. But this is based on, like, the people that I'm talking, talking to is that like that this is like Payton or Eli with athleticism and that's not what this is you know and I've heard people say this before after talking to some people I respect around

the league I'd agree with it this this guy seems to be more like his grandfather than his uncle yes no question I mean like right and so I think what teams are seeing on on tape right now is a big athletic kid who can make plays off schedule, who's got, you know, plus arm talent, maybe not special, but plus armed talent, who is still raw as a pocket passer and who still needs reps and seeing things over and over and over again and still has scattershot accuracy and you've got to figure that part of it out. And there's still a lot to clean up there. And your hope is, right, in his second year as a starter now, having seen everything that he did

and having seen the ascension over the course of the year, right? Because, I mean, one thing that came up was early in the year he was looking at the rush a lot. And maybe part of that was getting Ohio State in the opener. But the eye level got better as the season went on. The accuracy got better as the season went on. And so your hope is that like the ascension that you saw at the end of the year last year picks up this year because of the volume of things that he's seen. And so, you know, I think that's sort of where it's at for him right now is like, you know, the tools are there. can he get more accurate?

Can he get better in the pocket? Can he see it faster? And that was the problem with fields, right? Like when things weren't on schedule for fields, like he held the ball and it looked like he was having, you know, like I don't know exactly what I'm looking at. And I think there's a lot of that with Arch now. Somebody pointed me to the Florida game last year

and to watch the end of the Florida game and how he held the ball and how it didn't look quite like he knew what he was looking at, you know? And so I think that that's the big thing now is just, that you see the continued improvement. The good news is, is that by all accounts, he is an unbelievable kid. Great leader. He really is.

And it has nothing to do with his uncles, his grandfather. Right. I've told before, like, just, I talked to him for 20 minutes. I don't even think we talked about football for a minute. Yeah. Like he's got a maturity level about him that is, that's different from most. Talk to his Sark, talk to his teammates, you know, like, so that, like, all of that raises the floor and then the athleticism, but he's not there.

Here's the beautiful part. We'll do a quick, just a quick like rundown. The beautiful part of next year's classes, yeah, there are 12 guys that could all, any one of them could wind up first round and all of them belong in the first two days of the draft, like right at this moment, right? Yeah. But some people love CJ Carr. Others aren't quite seeing it yet.

Some people love Julian saying. He's the next Drew Breeze, right? Some people kind of, it doesn't fit what they're looking for. Dante Moore is probably the closest thing, right, right now in terms of his path. I'd agree. I think, I think, like, if you ask most teams right now, who's got the, who's the best bet to go on the top five next year? I think it's Dante Moore. Right.

But then there's this upside with Arch based off of the ascension he made last year. And if he can get the eye level, the progressions, the comfort, you know, being more comfortable in the pocket, mechanics kind of in sync. He could easily be the first pick. Then you've got Lenora Sellers, who, like, it was a disaster last year, fired the offensive coordinator, Shula, brought in a new coordinator who is then like up-tempo and played to his strength. And he physically, like he and Sorsby to me are in the same tier of, like I said,

like the Lamars and the Hertz and guys who are not developed as passers yet, but they can do things with their legs that nobody else, you know, arch to a certain degree, but they're more like, like, type of type of guy. So, and that's just naming a hand, we're not even talking about like the ascension that we're going to see from Sam Levitt, we assume from Elaine Kemp in LSU. I haven't, I haven't had the list here, Dary Mentsa, Jammata, Niko Iamaliava, Jada Chamblis, DJ Lagway, Josh Hoover at Indiana. You know, like I had Brady Quinn on my pod yesterday, and he gave me this name like a month ago,

and I hadn't heard it before, Drew Estemaker, who was going to be at Oklahoma State. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I'd never heard that, but it's just the volume of names. Like, I don't know that we have, you guys would be better to answer this to me. Like, I think two years ago or three years ago now, we felt really good that Caleb Williams and Drake May were going to be in the top five. Yes. Right.

Yes. I'm pretty certain. I don't know that we have a single guy. Dante Moore is the closest, but I don't know that we have a single guy who's like that, that far ahead of time. But the number of guys is like,

there's like, obviously like, I mean, every year. Like, can't anything about football to say like, well, if they're 15 names, there's a better chance that five are going to hit. Right. And Cam Ward was like a fourth,

fifth coming into his last year at Miami. Right. Jaden Daniels was like, maybe day two, you know, maybe you've reached in the second round, but he's the third going into his last year at LSU. So there's going to be that element for these guys that we're talking about, maybe maybe later first, early second. There's going to be one or two, you would suspect.

And then, like you said, the sheer numbers of it all. And I don't know. And even if we have what happened this past year, where Nussmeyer's never healthy and he drops. And Klubnick does it, not. only doesn't progress, regresses. Even if we lose four or five of these guys and they wind up being day three picks, you still have the potential for five or six first rounders.

It's going to be wild. It's wild. And then you throw in the fact that, I mean, on top of that, like, we all talked a lot about how there's no Julio Jones at receiver. There's no Miles Garrett at defense. It's like, well, next year we got Jeremiah Smith at receiver. We have Colin Simmons and Dillon Stewart as edge players. You have Leonard Moore at corner.

It's like you also have the premium prospects at the other premium positions. You know? Yes. Yes. I mean, do you guys know? Like, there's a reason why no first round picks were traded this off. No 27 first round picks were traded this off season. That's why it's going to be a three smart for stock.

I said to mention it was a fireable offense if you traded a first round pick. I mean, the A.J. Brown deal sounds like it's going to be a 28 first round pick too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like that conversation was, I mean, just Mench, I mean, to give you guys some background, like when there were a few other teams involved in the A.J. Brown thing back in March, one of the idea back then. So now at this point is three drafts ahead of time, right?

Right. Part of the conversation then was 28 first round pick because teams didn't want to give up the 27 ones. You got to get going or you want to listen to Mench about his trip to Vegas? I mean, he can go ahead. I'm entertained by this stuff. What do you got, Bench? Where do you want to me to start? So there seems to be a lot.

So folks you don't know, you went out to the sphere. We just covered that. And you saw fish. And you've never seen a show there. You're a fish, die hard. Go ahead. There's a lot of interest in how many shows I've seen. And I couldn't tell you the specific number,

but I could tell you it's greater than 50. and I've seen them in different states. I got to see them in Manchester, New Hampshire. I live right around the corner. They had three shows there last year. But obviously, this was different going to the sphere in Las Vegas, going with my friend, my good friend Matt Sulso and Jay Small. I met up with Sammy and Alex from Richmond,

Sammy Kaufman and Alex Stevens out there. I love it. We got graphics. Yeah, these were all pictures from like, this was the art that they did. So a couple of things. One, it was awesome. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

But there's Alex and Sammy. I would do it in a heartbeat again. But it's not, it wasn't like a normal fish show. It was more like a, you know, Pink Floyd the Wall. Yeah. And you know, yes, it was like something like that, Bert. It was like something like the Grateful Dead movie. It was like a art experience.

Right. It was like an art piece. And the thing that I really like about fish and me and the other hippies really like about fish is that you're like, as Todd calls it. calls it, noodling, is that when they jam, and I don't know how, like, what kind of freedom they had with that, because they were trying to hit marks with the visuals behind them. And as cool as it all was, and again, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. As cool as it all was, it's like, how much can you jam?

And then they have a, and you guys are going to make fun of me for this. I don't care. There's a fifth member of the band they call CK5. He's the lights guy. You've completely eliminated CK5. I mean, if you've ever been to a fish show and you've seen their lighting rig, it's like an alien spaceship. It's insane. And he has been with

him for forever. And so he synced up with what they're doing and knows how to, you know, like how to, when they're going to hit this change, he knows how to change the lights. And you've kind of, I'm guessing he was involved in the art process of it, but you've

removed that unpredictability and him being able to do that on the fly. I didn't love that. So it was a great show. It was a great set list. They played well. The art was great. but it wasn't what I would call, like, a real, a real fish show. McShay, what do you know about fish? If I, I'm going to give you three song names, okay?

Let's see if you can get two or fish songs. Let's see what Bert does here. I can't. And I told, I told the guy, by the way, just people listening, no, one of the guys in fish went to my high school. We have a weird list of people that went to Lincoln Sudbury. Like Captain America was a year behind me at L.S. Kendall Roy was a year ahead of me.

So that's Jeremy Strong. was class of 97. And Chris Evans was class of 99. I was class 98. So we have a weird list of people. They might be giants. Do you think folks at L.S.? Huh?

Mentioned? Do you think folks at L.S? Like, alumni mentioned you in order? I'm way down the list. I'm way down the list. I don't know. So here are the news guys. I don't know fish very well.

Test us. Test us, Munch. Test us. All right. It's Bertha. Tweezer. You enjoy myself. You enjoying myself is definitely a fish song.

I think Burk is too. I'm going to go Tweezer. You go Tweezers. It's not the one. It is the one that's not a fish song. I agree with that, yeah. Okay. You're both.

Bertha is a Grateful Dead song. It's a great song. Tweiser is unbelievable. So you're right. You got it. I got it. But the one that I said was definitely a fish song is not. Okay.

New Year's Eve. New Year's Eve 1994. The band rides in on a prop above the crowd. It's the garden. What is the prop? It is now in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. A mushroom. Was this spaceship?

Nope. It was a hot dog. A hot dog. A hot dog. It rode in on a hot dog. Yeah. Yeah. This is the kind of stuff that you guys.

Last one, because he did it at the show I was at, John Fishman, the drummer, has turned a common household appliance into a, I guess you would call an instrument. What is the household? Toaster. Boaster. Vacuum cleaner. He plays a vacuum cleaner on stage. My favorite part, by the way? Yes, it's wild.

It doesn't. I mean, I don't know. That's crazy. Yeah, he's trying to make some sounds and it's funny and it's great and all that stuff. But, uh, so I apologize to. Mike Gordon, that was awful. I saw that that was, that was really terrible by me. Let me ask you a couple, well, go ahead.

Completely. Really quickly. I don't know, you guys have probably been to Harry Reid Airport, both of you. For whatever reason, they have put the ticketing on one side of the building and all the gates on the other side of the building. So as I'm walking across the entire building to get to my flight, I hear someone come on the intercom and say, Paging Mike Gordon and John Fishman, your flight has boarded. we need you to get to the gate.

And I just, I was like, this is awesome. Wait, they don't fly private. They don't fly private. So here's the thing. Was it just someone was messing? Either way, dude, who cares? Either way? No, it was like a perfect end of the weekend.

Yeah. What were you going to ask me? Yeah, that airport's a mess, by the way. That airport is a mess. It is a mess. A disaster. Yeah, and the slot machines and the ding, ding, ding, ding. Do you ever feel like,

and that maybe this is an exclusive to this venue, but do you ever feel like, like the, I don't say grandfather, but like kind of like a grandfather shaking your head, or at least a father. And some of the young, like the young guys, like, are you a little, like, here's what's funny. Both in like you don't know how to take your, your medicine, let's call it. And also, you know, back in my day, I took out there, right? I took my medicine the right way and I did it the right.

And also, like, you're only 25. What are you doing here? Like, you don't understand, like, the real. And, like, you know, do you ever feel that? No. What's weird about it, that I think there will be fans that will hear this and say, they'll hear the number 50. You guys are like, that's insane.

They'll hear the number 50, and they'll say to themselves, this guy really shouldn't be, we really shouldn't be given them a platform to talk about the band. There are people out there who are fanatics, who have seen this band. hundreds and hundreds of times, that they will follow them around during the summer tour. They will go state to state selling veggie burritos and devil sticks, and they will do whatever they got to do to get to the next stop and get a ticket.

So even within my group of friends, I'm not even close, not even close to the highest number. So you're out in Vegas for, I would say Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, so six days. Yeah. And you're solo for two.

Yeah. We went to New Orleans. Why were we there? Oh, because we had to fly in early. We had that storm, Bert. Remember, you had all your incidents, both at the combine. Yeah, you got down late, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Which you got to work on your travel agent. But Mention and I, for the senior bowl, the storm was coming. So we flew down to New Orleans a day early. Yeah. And we're staying there and we're staying across the street from the, what is that, Hard Rock? Or Caesar, Caesar, sorry. Yeah.

And so I, you know, I partook in a little gambling that night. And Mench took out like $250 and was going to play and never played a penny of it. Yep. I lost my contact. It was like, I'm out of here. Right. But I did my research. Did you play in Vegas?

I lost. I went to, I went to Vegas with wide eyes and big dreams. And I left Vegas with a lot less money. I got smoked in blackjack. And I got onto the craps. I got on to craps late. Do you guys play craps? no i have i it's it's if you're gonna do it if you're gonna play that's the game i got onto it

oh it's the best game it's the most it's way more fun it's way more interactive yeah uh i got on it it late lost a lot of money in that too but it was great but yeah so that was like you were there by yourself for two days then i was there for yeah just gambling and and uh drinking at the most of that first two days was me sitting there at the ring bar in the middle of planet Hollywood, having old fashions and playing just video poker right in front of me. Yeah. She just put it like 20 bucks and you keep going. It's a way to kill time.

And then I met this kid who was, I got to get the name right. Matt Robinson, semi-pro hockey player for the Reno Ice Breaker. So the Reno Ice Raiders, leading score in the league this year. Oh, boy. Yeah, we're, we shattered it up a little bit. He turned $20 into $800 in video kino. And then he came back to next night. Next night he came back and turned that $800 into $300, like a magician.

Oh. So, you know, it was like people like that. But I got to tell you that I did get to go to a couple. The best part of Vegas was the food. Like I was all the way. No question. Like any great restaurant in America now is there. It's unbelievable.

Yeah. Like any great, any of the great restaurants in America, they all have a location of Vegas. Yeah. Where'd you go? There was a new Mexican place called Amaya. That's the actual actually, my oldest daughter's name Maya. Oh, wow.

This is, that's a tuna. What he just showed was a tuna appetizer. Now we're getting to the other one. I'll get to that one in a second. But the first two, there was a tuna appetizer at Amaya. And then there was like a deconstructed lobster taco. That place was really good. The scallops are from there too, really enjoyed.

I like how they did the lazy season. Is that one meal or did you? No, no, no. That's what you eat there like nine times. Like I eat there three times. Because it was easy. I also went to the Wicked Spoon, which is a breakfast buffet there, but I gotta tell you, we were on the David Chang show.

So I went to Momofuku. Mm-hmm. It was unbelievable. Like he, the staff there, I had a woman named Griselle who's serving me and this guy, Carlos. Did you have the, the sesame miso noodles? I did not. And I know you told me to, but I got a, a this would have been so up your alley it's crazy i got another tuna appetizer and so it's like cubed

tuna and then they shave foie gras oh and they and so like you're eating this and it's really rich but he's so smart like he cuts down on that by adding pistachios so you get like a crunch it's not like the same texture and pear so you get this like just this bite of like really bright sweet to like cut through it all it was one of the best things ever had and then And I was talking to Brazil, I think is how you say her name. And I was like, would you get the trout or would you get the, would you get the pork? And I got the pork. And I like, I always, like, people are always like, oh, it melts in your mouth.

I'm like, shut up. It doesn't melt in your mouth. This was the most tender thing I've ever had in my life. Really? It's like the most tender thing. It was, it was insane how good it was. And I talked to my wife beforehand. I was like, because we've just gone on a show.

I was like, well, what if it sucks? Like, what do I do if it sucks? Because everyone knows I'm going. Like, do I just not mention it? Not a problem. Not a problem. everything's great. I had a Tamari old-fashioned,

which was kind of cool, like their little play on it. It was all really good. Gordon Ramsey has a $50 burger. It sucks. It sucks. Oh, really? Yeah, falling apart in my hand.

Sorry, Gordon. I ordered it medium. It came out like, it was like, you know, they had just touched the grill. That was it. And it wasn't that great. But other than that,

the food was awesome. So David Chang gets a, A plus across the board then. Across the board. He was great to us on the show. He's a awesome guy. I know you guys were with him last week, right? Was that right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he isn't. He's a phenomenal guy, too. Yeah. So that was all great. I will say you can smell the smoke. I knew that you could smoke inside, but a plan of Hollywood,

you could smell the smoke coming in through the air conditioning. And I was like, this is a different place. It's still like jar. Because I remember, I think I was in college when it started to be like you couldn't smoke in bars anymore. Yeah. I think it was like right around 2000 and like how that was like bizarre that there wasn't like that everybody in a bar wasn't smoking anymore. And now it's like you go into a place where there, when you're in Vegas, it is like holy crap. Or Nikki Blainez and Indianapolis.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's like jarring being indoor where smoking is allowed now, you know? Yeah. And we never knew anything. I remember when they, I was living in New York City and they started banning it. and bars.

Yeah. And people were like, you know, and it was weird because you were so used to that smell when you walked into a bar. For sure. Different, you know. And then you'd have like, and then there'd always be like, and then your clothes would stink for three days after even if you, like, you weren't a smoker, you know? Yeah.

I remember like I, so when I was living in the North End, I don't know if you guys ever been to the sale off there, but that was like the place that I used to go. Yeah. Yeah, I used to go like three nights a week when I was living in the, in the North End. And after, like, because. because smoking was banned in Boston, there was like this little, you guys remember there's that little deck.

Yeah, yeah. Tiny, but how it didn't fall into the 35 people like puddled up. Ripping darts out there. Ribbing darts hanging over it. Like, like, like, I think like that's not allowed now, right?

I remember going out there with like, LEO and Seth Wyman guys who were like our offensive linemen at Richmond and being like literally looking at this thing, being like, I don't know if we get a chance. You know, like we're going to the mission. The other thing is you walk outside, you think you're getting away from it.

You are not. I mean, when you're on the strip, you get outside, it is loud, it is crowded. Like, there's no escaping it unless you get into your room and, and shut it down. Yeah. Are you still married? I'm still married.

We also did the pool command. I mean, Iris is a saint. You did a, we did a cabana. He goes out to LA for a week for the draft. And then it's like, I'm driving to Vegas, and I'm going for another week in Vegas to go see a show. And she's like totally chill about it all. I guess when you married that long, is there like, is there a give back on that?

There's got to be some sort of give back on that, right? I'm trying. I told her, I was like, where do you want to go? I was like, where do you want to go? Like, let's go. You can go, go with your friend, do whatever you want to do. See, what I do is I just, I just let Emily go out. Like, whenever she wants to go out, like on a random Wednesday with her, go.

Go. So then, like, when it comes up that I'm going to go to Columbus for a weekend in the fall or whatever, like I never get any pushback on it. Right. Yeah. That's what you got to build it up. You got to build it up over time. You know what I mean? Like so it's just like if you don't say no to things. When they've got a fine. Is Stella five? Six. Six. Okay. So they got a six year old at home. So she's not, it's not like she's, you know, an empty nester and just chilling. Yeah. We're in L.A. And you know how like again, we already mentioned it, how bad the weather was this, this winter and how bad travel was. But we're in L.A. and it's snowed in New Hampshire. And she called me. and she was like, I swear to God, if you went to work in July, it would snow.

And Stella, by the way, is on school vacation. She was on vacation, I think, for the combine, and she was on school vacation while I was in L.A. So it was, you know, she's like, yeah, this is great, thanks, man. Yeah, I think it's time for maybe, like, go to the jewelry shop or something. Minimum of hours. Something. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. I'm glad I'm glad Albert got to hear all of this. Oh, hopefully. I can contribute a little something to that. Yeah. It's good. Awesome trip, though, right? It was great.

It was the whole thing was. I mean, being on L.A., I don't really love L.A., but it was great for work. I mean, we had a good time, got to do a lot of different things, and then get to Vegas. Oh, the drive from L.A. to Vegas.

Have you guys done that? I have not. Yeah, it's kind of wild. There's nothing, right? It's like you're on Mars. Right. Like, once you get out of, like, the L.A. area, it's just...

Yep. Yeah. Like, there's going to make sure you've got a full tank and all that, right? Oh, yeah. Well, that was the thing. I thought I was good on gas. And then there's a part where you go, I mean, it's not like a plane.

It's not that bad. But you feel yourself go back in your seat. And it's probably a 10-minute ride like that. And all of a sudden you see your gas. We all have tanks now. It was like how many miles have left. And it's just dropping and dropping. And it was starting to get nervous.

But it was fun. I mean, lunch break makes you nervous. All right. This is great. Appreciate it. I mean, we got to a lot of stuff today. But, yeah, we're back on Thursday, folks. And I can't promise more insight like you got today.

But we're going to do some more review. But I appreciate you, Bert. No problem. This is fun. Thanks, Bert. And I'm sure this is a topic we'll be covering, I guess, late in June, maybe early July, but we'll be here and we'll figure it all out together. It's going to be wild.

I can't remember 26 years of doing this. Nothing like it. I can't remember. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the, Torell prior was wild. I remember being with, um, I remember where, but I think like, like, it's the last, you have to go back to like Steve Walsh or something like that, right? To, like, have like a guy who is like legitimately seen by teams as like a potential franchise quarterback, the famous. Yeah. But I think, like, the last one where a first round pick was in play with a quarterback was probably Steve Walsh, right? Am I wrong about that? No, I think you're right. You're right. Yeah, I think you are.

I remember I was with Jason Garrett and Nantucket, having a bite to eat and the news came out that Josh Gordon was going to be. And he's like, I'm going back to watch some tape and figure out, you know. And but since then, kind of, you know, there just hasn't been a lot. So this is, this is interesting to put it lightly, you know. All right. We'll see everyone on Thursday. Appreciate you guys.

Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or 1-800-My reset. Call 1-88-78-8-9-777-7-7 or visit ccpG.org slash chat in Connecticut. Or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline-m.m.m.a.org or call 1-800. 327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts.

Or call 1877-8-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1877-7-770-8867.