The McShay Show - Todd’s Pre-Combine Top-50 Big Board: A Surprise at 1, Mendoza Red Flags, and Other Takeaways. Plus, the Future of NFL Draft Psychological Testing.

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

Welcome to The McShay Show!​ With the 2026 NFL combine right around the corner, Todd's revealing his working top-50 big board. The guys talk Jeremiyah Love’s NFL comps, the battle for Edge1, Fernando Mendoza's red flags, and more. Then, they’re joined by Dr. Scott Goldman of AIQ for a behind-the-scenes look at how NFL teams evaluate prospects off the field.0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!4:10 Pre-Combine Big Board: Top 50 Prospects16:00 David Bailey vs. Arvell Reese24:20 Evaluating Fernando Mendoza and his historical comps32:50 Takeaways from Todd's Top 50 prospects46:55 Scott Goldman, founder of AIQ, joins the show49:20 Assessment tools for NFL scouting and player developmentLearn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.comThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve Muench and Dr. Scott GoldmanProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My updated top 50 prospects is ready to drop, so it's obviously a big day. Plus, we've got Scott Goldman from AIQ, the foremost authority in psychological testing for NFL draft prospects. And you know what? There's only 63 days until the NFL draft. Mitch, you good? I'm good, man. Tucker, roll that beat, please. Updated top 50, free combine, man. We're going to dive into that. I also want to mention, and I'll kind of explain a little bit more in detail later in the show. Scott Goldman, like we're in over our heads today, man.

I'm a little worried about it. I'm a little worried about, you know, is he going to be breaking me down as we're talking to him? I'm a little nervous, to be honest with you. Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. They're being revamped for what comes next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four-wheel drive.

So look ahead. Join the wait list at scout motors.com, just like I just did. Concept vehicles, not available for sale, features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scout motors.com for details. Yeah, I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with him, I don't know, 10 days ago, two weeks ago, right after the senior bowl. We met at the senior bowl and a connection was made. And we've long since talked about the psychological aspect.

It's kind of like the, I don't know, the secret in the room that these players take these psychological tests. I didn't quite realize, if I'm being honest with you, how important that aspect was. I've always known, you know, we've grown up in this business professionally, right? Like the wonder lick test, right? And the interview process. And I always knew that there were like maybe a psychology person was a psychologist or psychiatrist was behind some of the questions the teams would ask and they would try to dig. I didn't know to the lengths that teams go to make sure they understand the psychology behind each player

and like the neuropsychology process, right? Until I, honestly, until Bill Polian, and I know Bill Polion, when you hear that name, some people think this and that and the other thing. When Bill Polion came from the Colts, he was a six-time executive of the year in the NFL as a general manager and was on top of his game and shared with me sitting in the out in L.A.

One of the All-Star games that used to exist. and just how important that was and how they had their own team psychologist. But now what's happened is a lot of teams are not that they still do, but they also have this, you know, the different kinds of tests, right? And we've heard of different ones recently. AIQ is the only one recognized by the NFL.

And we have the co-founder and basically the head of the entire company reached out to us, wanted to talk to us. Obviously, helps promote his. product, but for us, he's willing to talk about players from last year's draft and this year's draft. Like there's, we're not just going to have some like, you know, 30,000 foot view or I can't talk about player. Like we're actually, he, he got permission from agents to talk about specific players in this

draft and a couple guys I missed on from last year and why I missed on him in his mind. So it's going to be a fascinating conversation. But we got the top 50. and I like to put out the top 50. I want to ask you this question before I say this. We talked about doing a top 50 list of the best football players in the draft. Should we do it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday at the combine? Think about it prior to the workout so that we're not skewed by that.

I know we haven't gotten to the tape of everyone. That's a really good point. It's tricky. Right. Well, let's think about that. Yeah, we could do the first, we could do the, The rough draft of the top 50. Yeah, rough draft.

So let's think about that. But this is my top 50 prospects as it pertains to this year's draft class. It's an update. I have kind of a working top 100 list going. I'm releasing it tomorrow. If you're not subscribed to the McShay report by now and you're watching this show, it means you don't love ball or you've got something against me

or you just don't care enough. Google it, the McShay report. subscribe tomorrow morning in your inbox comes directly to you from me and uh and and and my top 50 full release will be there still a couple players i want to finish tape on before i release it to feel really comfortable with it and then we'll do a top 100 post combine and a mock draft after the combine so and by the way and then the housekeeping's over i promise uh next week's a big one man man i marissa we fly in dan's coming in with tuck from LA. We get the gang all back, right? Are Jake and Nick going to be there? I hope

Jake and Nick are there. Jake and Nick are supposed to be there. Our camera guys who travel with us around the country and do all these things. They're literally the best in the business. And I've worked in this business for over 20 years. I know what I'm talking about. Jake and Nick are the best. So with all that said, Monday, first show from there. News, buzz. What's going on? Intel. Preview the combat. Same thing Tuesday. Same thing Wednesday. Okay. And then Thursday, we'll have our first show reacting to all the workouts. Same on Friday, same on Saturday. Then we're back.

We travel back on Sunday. The offensive linemen are working out. We travel back in the morning. We'll catch those on Sunday as it's happening in the afternoon. And then we'll have a Monday show wrapping up, you know, information on the offensive lineman and do the entire, you know, recap the following Monday. So we got a massive week coming up. A lot of steaks going to be eaten, you know, a lot of...

Some shrimp cocktail, maybe. Some shrimp cocktail with too much horse. radish in this sauce. But we're fired up for that. But I want to get to this top 50. Okay. Let's go. You even got some of it right.

It's encouraging. The hardest part was at the top, man. Really? Like, yes. Okay. So here's what I had to do for this one. As we're getting closer, I always talk about it. It's like air traffic control, right?

Let's just get all the planes up in the air. And let's start trying to get them in the right direction. And as you get closer, we've got a flight plan. and we know when you're going to land. And then as we get really close to the draft, we're going to start stacking those planes in order, right? So we're kind of in that phase where all the planes have taken off. We know the 319 players from the Combine.

We know all the players have gone to all the different All-Star Games. We had a preseason list that we've been working off of and doing tape. All this stuff is going on, right? But now as we're head to the Combine, we've got this, the portion of the process where you and I are literally watching tape after tape after tape all day long, writing evaluations. So it's fluidly moving and everyone's like, well, why is this guy going up your board and down your board? Well, because I'm still getting caught up on all the tape and also talking to people in the league and getting in after next week, we'll get more medical reports and we'll get more interview reports and we'll get some psychological background.

There's just so many factors that go into all of this, right? But when I look at this top 50, it's a good jumping off point for where we are right now, right? and then we'll follow it up with the top 100 after the combine. But I struggle with the fact that the best players in this draft are not at premium positions, many of the best players, a few of the best players. And then I have to go back at this point in the process and start looking at previous year's grades. It's a big part of it. I can't give Mendoza a higher grade than Jeremiah Love or Arvell.

Reese or David Bailey or even Caleb Downs if I'm trying to make sure historically I'm keeping everything intact, right? Because I can't give him a grade that's higher than a Cam Ward or a Drake May or equal to a Jaden Daniels or because I don't believe that that's the case or Caleb Williams coming out in the draft. So I started that process. It's the first time that I've had an eye on historically trying to line them all up. I talked about air traffic control.

Now I'm telling you, all right, the flight plan is this. We're scheduled to land around 3.43 p.m. Eastern time, right? That's where we are. And so as I'm doing this, I'm looking at Jeremiah Love. And I'm looking at David Bailey at a premium position. And I'm looking at Arvel Reese that we are projecting at a premium position. He was seen, we've seen it, we've got a catalog, but it's not a large catalog at edge rusher. So an off-the-ball linebacker or running back and a safety in Caleb Downs.

and while I know the quarterback's going number one and I'm told even just as recently the last 72 hours by someone I trust he's going number one to the Raiders we'll see if that how that plays out but that's one source that I have that's like hey I get it and you're not wrong and organizationally it may not be the best move to bring him in right now considering where they are

as an organization but count on that happening I can't put Mendoza at one, even though I know he's going to one, because I have a duty to stay true to grades. And I'm looking at this year's class in Jeremiah Love, and Bailey and Reese are the three best prospects in this draft. And Caleb Downs is right behind him, and then Mendoza at five. So that's how it plays out in my top five. And putting a running back at number one, I don't know that I've ever done that.

In fact, I know I have. haven't done that. No. I mean, you love Jimir Gibbs. He wasn't even sniffing the top spot. No. Can I say something now? You?

It's all you. I don't mind the way the players fall. I don't have it exactly that same ranking. What I do mind is thinking, I don't think that if you're going to have a beef about Fernando Mendoza getting such a high grade, David Bailey getting a 94. is kind of wild to me. I love David Bailey. He's one of the top five players in the draft in my mind.

But a 94 for a guy he weighed 247 pounds in the preseason. Well, I went back and looked like Miles Garrett was like a 97. And the Bosa brothers were like 96 and 95. Like you're great about it. I still think 94 feels high to me. I feel like these three that you have separated, I would put them at the top. But I don't think they've really separated from the rest of the group significantly.

I do think I have Reese ahead of Bailey. Let me ask you this question before we get into the Reese Bailey, because I do want to have that conversation because I'm not saying it's done. No, no, no, no. But I am early days, by the way. We're still in February. Are you chill with running back Jeremiah Love it, number one overall? I am.

I have for most of the year I've had him as my number one overall prospect. That's not the case right now. But he's probably, without looking at it, he's probably three right now. He's outstanding. I mean, he's one of this, I think, this is a dangerous word in what we do. One of the safest prospects in this draft. I mean, he's hard to say safe and running back. I know, I know.

He's super talented, though. Oh, man, there's the tape, the production, I think the mental makeup of who he is as a human being. And maybe we'll get some of this later on. I don't know who's in the, I don't know whose names you've got. I don't know. I'm excited to see that, by the way, because I didn't think, I didn't know that you were to be able to talk about specific guys. I thought that was going to be off the table. I have a wish.

I have a list. It's not like we can just start. I have a list that have been approved by agents. And obviously they're not approved if they're not positives, but it's fascinating to hear about that. But go ahead. Right. Calm down,

that being said, listen, I get it. I don't mind Jeremiah love being one. I do mind him being a 94. I think that's too high. I think Reese is too high at 94, and I think Bailey's too high at 94.

If you're going to, in my other argument that would be, is Caleb, downs. Why is it Caleb down? Did you say Jeremiah, I love it. Jeremiah,

you love is too high at 94? Yeah, I think the grades are too high. Let me give you some history. Okay, go for it. What did you give Genty last year? I give Bijon a 95 and Genty in 94.

Interesting. Interesting. You're probably too high in Genty too. Bejohn was different, man, in my mind. I loved Bijon. I think he's a bigger,

thicker guy. The difference between a knife, just so people on understand. Like, there's not a massive difference. No, I know. We're already in saying it. No, no, no. There's not a massive difference between the 76 and the 77. In fact, in pay structure, you're talking a couple hundred or a couple thousand, tens of thousands of dollars.

There's a massive difference between a nine from, in our grading scale between a 94 and a 95 and a 95 and a 96. And it also is in like rookie contract money. It's millions. It's not tens of thousands. So, um, so. So. go ahead. How about this? Why isn't Caleb Downs with those top three? I think each of those

It's hard with the depositions, but yeah, go ahead. I know, and we have plenty of time to sort it all out. I think Caleb Downs, if he physically had an elite trait to go along with his elite tape, do you know what I mean? He's not even worry, length heights. He's not a 4-3. I think he's probably going to run 4-4.

My guess is he'll run at Ohio State. but but it's not do you know what i mean yeah whereas bailey's elite explosiveness arvel reese is elite in like six four wingspan two 45 jumps through the roof like if he works out at the combine it's going to be like just sensational you know we're all going to be oh you know and jeremiah love i think we all agree like from the straight line speed to hit the body type to the Explosion. Like, he's, he's got elite traits. Yeah, man, I just have a hard time with it when you look at the total package and think that Caleb Downs is somehow, you know, a grade behind anyone, anyone in this draft. Okay.

And I don't care. I don't care. I hear what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. You're not wrong. Although I'm not, I'm not, I'm not as high or confident in Bailey having that elite trait. I really am not. I just, I just, if you're going to have an elite trait,

Let's say he does have an elite trade and exposiveness. I also think he has a flaw in that the frame is a little small. Don't see. Can't wait for Indy to find out a lot of this stuff. But yeah, I think you're top five. I don't have a problem with it. I just think that down should be with the same group and maybe everyone comes down a point or two. We're talking about this for this class.

Yeah, 93. You know, and again, I am nitpicking a little bit. I'm just telling you how I would have it a little bit different. Bailey versus Reese is a tough one, right? Yes. Because I've got bird in hand with Bailey. I know what he is. I've got the tape. I've got the pass rush win rate. I've got the different moves and I've got a development overtime from Stanford to Texas Tech.

With Reese, I recognize he's uniquely talented. And I see some, I mean, I go back to talking to Dan on the phone as I'm watching the cutups of him as just an edge. rusher. I think it was against like Illinois and one other team when they started utilizing him even more as an edge this year and him just plowing over guys and winning with physical traits even though he's not developed as a pass rusher yet. Right. But that therein lies the rub, right? He's not developed as a pass rusher yet. So you're either looking at it as a think how great he's going to be. Can you imagine how great Arvel Reese is going to be when he has a full year in the NFL and he's working just as an edge rusher.

If it's the Micah Parsons deal where he does a little bit of both and injuries force him into this role or however it plays out, what he could be in year two is an edge rusher in year three and beyond. But I'm also like, what I see

of him as an edge rusher so far is a guy who's unrefined. And there's not a lot of tools in that shed. Not a lot of moves. It's just all the tools he doesn't he's not he's sorry he's not yeah he's like an he's like an artist with the best paintbrushes and paints but he hasn't learned how to draw yet kind of a deal right is that a way of saying it i don't

know i got sure yeah i get into trouble when i try to get into your your waters of comparing this to things but but no i just saying i think that's very good you know what i mean like that's that's kind of how you might say it i think he's i don't know i think he's a little farther along in that i mean he is raw there's no question about that he's raw but i man i just I can't imagine being a team that misses on him. And I just feel like someone's going to, if you take Bailey over him, you're going to look back and say you could have had one of the best edges in the league, I think. That's what I think he's going to be.

Maybe he won't. Maybe teams don't see him that way. I just see him as an edge and I think he's got elite upside there. I think that's the fear, right? Because I want to remind people, and I remember standing next to Micah Parsons at Penn State on the field. I remember watching him live and being like, God doesn't make many like this,

like human beings like this in the world. He is just so different. He was the 12th overall pick in 2021. Yeah. I mean, it was after COVID and there was some things that kind of got him to drop a little bit, but it's unbelievable to think that guy went 12th. And I think it, yeah, I mean, I think people will, if you have them pegged as your edge rusher and that he's going to have a Parsons like transition conversion in the NFL, you're scared to death.

Not scared to death of, yeah, you're scared to death of not taking them. And so the league, whether it's an overcorrection or not, but we didn't see an overcorrection with Jalen Walker. What did he go? 13 or 15 to the Falcons. Yeah, I don't know exactly where it was, but it was right in that range. But I'm not saying, but he's also Jaylon Walker as and is talented or as Parsons.

And, you know, so 15 for Walker. Yeah, 15 for Walker. So here's the thing. If you're a Penn State fan or a Dallas fan or a Green Bay fan or just a Micah Parsons fan and you're listening to this goofball and talk about this today, and you're saying to yourself, Do they realize how good Michael Parsons is?

Yes. I mean, we get it. And we're not saying he's the same type of player, by the way. Mike is going to be more explosive and kind of win that way where Arvel's going to have to win with like speed to power and length. There's a different style here. It's the arc that we're talking about. But listen, I understand it's a huge swing.

It's a big swing. But it's the kind of player I see on tape. And I know that he kind of had a quiet end of the year that people wanted more of him in the Indiana game. And I get all of that. that, but I just, I just see it and I'm excited about it. And I just feel like he can be a guy that can get to the quarterback in a like consistently. That he can be the game end or the, you know, guys who could seal a win on defense.

I think R. Val Reese can be that guy. The, I wouldn't say it's the, it's the worst case or the, but it, but it is the fallback that, all right, we utilize them as a pass rush or a handful of times a game, but he just never became that Micah Parsons or however he never became the guy that we hoped he would at edge but he's still like a Devin Lloyd you know I mean yeah yes please you know what I'm saying so it's not like it's not like you're taking a tackle at two or three that's going to become a really good guard for you you know I don't think four or four last year right yeah yeah I heard it took it took me about four and a half like four and a half seconds with

dons on marble head they say yeah light light don's on marble head yeah um boy growing up in swan's got that one hit home so yeah so that that part's interesting the i guess yeah there are three takeaways from the from this top 50 one is i finally mustered up the the onions to just put a running back at number one overall something i literally have never done before. Number two is the Bailey versus Reese discussion is not over. I actually started this with you, what, 10 days ago, two weeks ago? I'm talking to guys in the league and they make a really good point.

And I've got the quote here somewhere that we don't know. What was the quote? I wrote it down. Guys in the league don't make decisions on hope. Right. And there's a little bit more of a hope that he becomes. an edge, then there, and that's the first conversation I had with somebody, a very high-ranking position in the NFL where they're like, I'd take Bailey over Reese,

and it got me thinking. So I'm not committed any, I mean, it's not even much. I think I'm not committed to a false choice too. I don't think that Bailey, this is this lock at number two is going to be a great player in the NFL. Again, I love the player. I'm excited about it. wish the best, like all of those things.

But if we're being honest here and talking and comparing him to other edge rushes that have come out, I don't see him as this, or Reese is this huge projection, but David Bailey, we know we're going to get 10 sacks a year out of this guy. Really? Well, we're going to do our position deep dives coming up after the combine. We'll talk a lot next week about the traits and what we're seeing and some of the things we're hearing and we'll have a lot of great intel. And then we'll start after the combine with the mock draft top 100.

and then we'll really do the deep dives. We've gotten deeper into the positions and our evaluations and our scouting report write-ups that we've done. But I do think there's two very important conversations that we will have in early to mid-March. One is, all right, you've watched every snap that R. Vell Reese has taken as an edge rusher.

What can he be? And where is he? And the other one is you've now watched every snap and you have the workout numbers and everything to go around. to go along with David Bailey, stack him up with the Miles Garrett's and the Bosa brothers and some, you know,

the Abdul Carter's, some of the guys that you've had really high grades on. So those are conversations we can continue to have. But, um, and then the third part was, I mentioned running back one, the break, the breakdown of those two players, um,

and, um, and, and Bailey. But then the third, part was Mendoza at five. I think it's fair. I don't have any hesitation with that. I just, I think he's a damn good quarterback. I think, but, and I looked, I had to look back at the grades. That's what started this whole conversation. Caleb and Jaden, I had 95s, Drake 94, KM 93. So Mendoza at 92 feels right. I think he's as good as Cam, Ward. I think he's 93.

I contemplate it. If they're different players, it's not, it's so very different. Yeah, so it's a different thing. I've like, just looking at it, like Mendoza's, I get it that he's not the elite quarterback. Now, if you start, if you start follow along now, if you, if you start to drop the other guys by a point, then I think Mendoza moves up. I think if you're looking at strictly football players, then you're probably going to go love downs Mendoza in that order. I really think that. I think that those are the guys who are, you know, Mendoza is so good at what he does.

And I think he's the way he processes and prepares and the mobility and then the accuracy and the back. All of the stuff that we fell in love with during the season, right? He is, I think, maybe he doesn't have, like we talked about with some of these other quarterbacks, he doesn't have the ceiling. But he's ready to make the jump. He's ready to go more than a lot of other quarterbacks we've talked about over the course of the year, right?

Caleb Downs is just a hell of a football player. Jeremiah Love is just a hell of a hell of a football player. I love, it's just a hell of a football player. So I think you could put those three, that would be the top three, and then you can have the other two after that. That's kind of how I feel about it. You know, the interesting part with Mendoza,

and we'll have plenty of time to break all of this down, but the interesting part to me with Mendoza is this. What I love most about Mendoza, the nerdy aspect, the commitment, like his whole life is football, the chip on his shoulder, the way he studies, the improvement,

he made in one off season and early in the season at Indiana with Cignetti and that staff, Shanahan and his quarterback coach who now is in Tampa, the brains. He's going to beat you with his brain, right? Yeah. But here's the effed up part about it, right? What also concerns me a little bit is, and it's holistically, what concerns me with him, It's not that he's 6.5, 220, live arm can run really well on a straight line. Not any of those things.

But he's not as traitsy as Drake or Jaden or Caleb or camp, right? But he's got plenty of tools in the toolback. What concerns me about him, and it feels like a contradiction. Because I just told you he's going to the best trait he has is his mind, the way he prepares. all the things. But what also concerns me about him is, okay, now the bubble wrap comes off, and it's not as easy as two by two with that cornerback.

I know he can. I've seen it too. It's going to be a transition. And if you said, what's the one thing? The one thing that scares you the most about Mendoza. And I know every geek, I shouldn't say that, but everyone out there who would like to, who can't scout, who can only scout with the numbers and all that.

There's a beauty to having both, right? Everyone out there is obsessed with the pressure to stack rate. Yeah. Right. And it's not good for a guy you're talking about this is the number one overall pit. What I'm concerned about is the why behind it. And I've told you this from, I think it's September we started talking. And certainly last year at Cal, but then he made all these improvements and the turnover

worthy plays weren't there. But if you really want to know, and it's more than just the sack to pressure or pressure to sack ranking or rating, it's I see a quarterback when he doesn't have the answer from the test, from the first thing he looks at, and if pressure's coming simultaneously, there's this combination, convergence of two things that happens with Mendoza. One, there's a realization, while he can run fast on a straight line,

he ain't Twitch Right It's Daniel Jones It's Tyler Shuck Both run fast on a straight line But don't have the Inside the pocket Okay

And number two Instinctively And I don't know if this is baked into him As a human being I don't know if it can be coached out I don't know if it will come with time Instinctively There's this quarter count of panic that sets in

eyes dropped like that. And I've said this about him for a long time, and I have a list, a bullet point list in my notes of all the plays where I saw that same thing. And it doesn't happen much because usually he has the answer to the test. And even when he doesn't, maybe the pressure isn't coming. But when those two things happen at the same time, there's a little bit of like this, before he kind of figures it out.

But at that point, it might be that interception he threw. against, was it Iowa or Oregon, that fourth quarter interception, I think it was Oregon, early in the fourth quarter. The pick six. That was an example. Hadn one against Iowa. Hadn one against Ohio State. The first Oregon game, sorry, yeah.

First Oregon game. So I'm just saying, which is interesting because, yes, part of that is he doesn't have that little short area agility because he's a tall, long-legged guy. But it's also part he hasn't learned to calmly. handle those moments. That's the most concise way and the most like attack it right at the core. That is the core of what's concerning to me. Now you're going to hear a lot about, you know, pressure to pressure to sacrate and that that's the result. But I just gave you the exact why. I hear you. It's an interesting thing too because you would agree with this too.

I know you talked about his greatest strength, but one of his right up there is his onions. when the game is on the line. But within a snap, there's a difference between... Fourth downs, fourth down, fourth quarter, all of it. There's a difference between situational football and what happens in the lifetime of a snap and the lifetime of a play

and how that can affect a quarterback. And I will say it affects a lot of quarterbacks, but the great ones are much better at it than Mendoza currently is at this point. Yeah. So that's honestly that probably it took a longer than I want and I'll find a way to say it more concisely

as we get closer to the draft, but that is the crux. That's true. There is the crux of why I can't give him a grade a little bit higher. Okay, so moving on from that, that's the top five. And a lot there.

What else stands out to you at this time? Remind people, if you want to see, you get the top 10, you can see here the graphic Tucker built, Jeremiah Love, David Bailey, Reese, Downs, and Mendoza, the top five, as we alluded to. Then six through 10.

You've got receivers and offensive tackles and an edge mixed in. You got Francis Maui Noah from Miami at six. Spencer Fano offensive tackle from Utah at 10. Sandwich in between is edge rusher Ruben Bain from Miami. And then the two-odd receivers at 8 and 9 are Carnell Tate, Ohio State, and Mackay Lemon from USC. So whether it's in the top 10 or elsewhere, what else stands you? Because I did send Munch to top 50 as it stands right now. just so everyone understands.

There may be a tweak or two based off of tape study finalizing that tonight. And then I'm getting with Dan. We're going to drop it in the newsletter of the McShea report. Google it, subscribe. You'll get it in your inbox tomorrow morning. The top 50 is we get ready for leaving on Sunday for the NFL draft next week or the NFL Combine in Indianapolis next week. Just want to point out that now we know Infano both have the same grade now.

So even though one's at six, one's at 10, they both have 92 grades. I don't please you. I like, listen, I really like Maui Noah. I think he's a really good player. It does make me happy that they have the same grade. I think that Fano is the better, the better tackle. And I have, and I have, I will sleep easy at night saying that. And then we'll get into more of it when the time comes.

But I think Fano is a notably better offensive tackle prospect. It's been interesting to me to see how Maui Noah has been the kind of the darling, of draft media and how he's been up front the whole time. And it just doesn't, I think it's because of the Bailey, Texas Tech game that happened earlier in the year. If you think, I think people should go back and watch that tape. Bailey had a really good day, man. And he's made a lot of tackles look bad.

It wasn't as bad as I remember when I went back and watched it. I'll say that. There was a couple snaps that Fano looked bad. I got some tape on Maui Noah where he looks real bad in Pasbro. And that's just the reality of it. So I think they're both really good prospects overall. I think it's Fano by whatever. It's a notable difference to me.

I'll also say that McKin-Lemondon is going to turn me in, he's going to take Munch and turn him from draft Santa into Draft Grinch. Because everyone loves Mekine Lemon, including this guy. But this is too early. It's too early for a guy that, I mean, we'll see. If he's Amon Raw, St. Brown size, Amman Ra was just under six feet. And he was built really well.

even though I forget what his weight was exactly, but you saw the way he was built. If he's a Monra, St. Brown body type and height, all good. We're all good. I'm with everyone else. But we're going to find out Indy how big this guy is exactly. And it does matter, and I don't care what anyone says. We've been talking about undersized receivers a little bit about like a mechabuka.

We're like, oh, he's not a big receiver. He was six foot. JSN, six foot. Like these guys are six feet right around that round. Again, right around that range. again, St. Brown was just under six feet. If he's 5'10, I don't know, man. There was a lot of great receivers that had come out at 510

and just not really had the NFL career that we'd hope for them. So it stinks because his tape's awesome. His tape's just amazing. And the production and the Iowa, all of it. He almost brought them back against Iowa by himself. Like all of that stuff, or was it Illinois. I'm sorry, it was Illinois. All of that stuff is awesome.

But it's unfortunately, I'm going to be tied to. everyone's going to come out and say, Mench hates McKinian Lemon. I just have a hard time doing it when you look historically at that position. You are... Go ahead. Go ahead.

No, I was just going to say for... Yeah, I was going to let you take a deep breath. I was just pulling this up on my phone. I do think it's important to know, like I view this, and I don't know whether I put... Yeah, I mean, I guess I would put those top four guys, love Bailey, Reese, and Downs,

kind of in that top tier. And we'll do the tier rankings based off historically as we get into April and all that. Good. But if we're just tiering this group, that would be the first tier in this year's draft. I'm with you. I agree with that. Then I think Mendoza is the top of the next tier with Maui Noah and Bain and the two receivers, in my opinion, Tate and Lemon and then Fano.

All those guys would be in the next tier. Then the interesting part is I would create a third tier with the 91st, grades. And if you'd notice it's whether it's like maybe the traits don't match up with the tape or most cases like age or durability, there's something that prevents them from being in that next tier. And those guys are. And we don't have a graphic built and you'll get it all in the McShay report.

But this is the last like giving away because some of this could change slightly. Jordan Tyson, the third wide receiver from Arizona State, the two cornerbacks. Tyson, obviously, with the eight games missed in the last three years and missed a season, basically, when transferring from Colorado. Then you've got Jermad McCoy who didn't play last season at Tennessee because of the knee injury. Mansour Delane, who transferred Virginia Tech to LSU, did play. Health isn't an issue, but not as traitzy as Jermad McCoy in some other top corners. Sonny Stiles isn't off the ball linebacker.

Akeem Messador's 25 and change. So they're all kind of that next tier for me. That would be that my next group is Tyson, McCoy, Delane, Stiles, and Messador. Yeah. Tyson, you're worried about the durability? Jordan Tyson, the receiver from Arizona State, you're worried about the durability? Yeah, I'm assuming that's why he's there. Yeah.

I love his tape. I love his tape. And the way he plays, I think it requires, for him to be great, it requires that, like, attacking, you know, I think I did, what I say, he reminds me a little bit of Stefan Diggs. Like, it is just a, it's a whirlwind of like energy and attacking and like rabbit animal, you know? Yeah. And he's not small, but that style, just like Stefan Diggs is that injury. Like, I don't know. It worries me

and guys I talk to in the league are a little bit worried, but like not that worried that he's still what the 11th overall player in my board. But if we're, when you get buckets of players and I absolutely think from the tape and the top bucket of wide receivers. And however you view it, it's hard not to have Tate, Lemon, and Tyson in whatever order in that bucket. So you're looking for differentiators, right? Yeah. Separators. I get it. McNeill Warren, Emmanuel McNeil Warren from Toledo, you love. He's now at 17. I don't think that's off. I think that's good. I think that's you've, That's a guy you've known about for a while,

and then you finally get down and watch the tape. There's some interesting defensive back stuff outside of McNeill-Worn. Avion Torel from Clemson, the corner, 40. Colton Hood from Tennessee is at 37. I think both of those guys have a chance to go in the first round. I think you've ranked them exactly. Exactly where they belong. I watch their tape.

I like their tape. I don't see guys that are locks to be first round corners. So that was a couple of things that jumped out to me. Now, I will say we're going to get in, it's hard for me, man. It's hard for me not to talk offensive tackles right now because I've just kind of come up to breathe a little bit after watching all these guys. But one name I do want to mention because I think if he's not one of the more polarizing prospects, he should be. And that's Monroe Freeling from Georgia. And I'll start, I'll start here.

If I gave you a highlight. I have Freeling. You have Freeling at 24. And by the way, I'd be surprised. I would be surprised if he doesn't go right around there, if not earlier. I will say that. If I sent you a highlight tape and you would be so freaking excited about this player. I mean, start in the, he's first of all in Georgia, you got to be a run guy, right?

I mean, it's a run heavy offense. The way he gets out on zone runs is you very unique. for a guy with a six, seven frame. They should not, they should not move like that. He is agile. He is quick. He can cover guys up and then work up to the second level. And then you add on to that, he is, I mean, when he combo blocks, by the way, in the power

run game, he could track linebackers and he's just so athletic that he can get out on these blocks. You want to pull him, he can do all of that. And then on top of that, he can lock a guy up. He can latch, lift, and drive. I mean, that's something that's tough to do with the guy. who has that high center of gravity, he can do all of that. I will also show you past sets

where you as an offensive line coach would be like, yes, please. I can work with that. I can work with this guy's frame, his feet, how explosive he is getting out of the set. Here's the downside. He is a one-year starter. And there are some,

when you're six, seven, and you're that lean, it's hard to stay low. And there are times where he gets pushed around in the past game. And the run game, as great as it is at times. As great as it is at times,

there's other times where it's just on the ground too much. We always say this about offensive linemen. How many times is he on the ground? Because he's on the ground, he's not playing with balance. He's not sustaining. He's not doing all the things that he needs to do. He's not getting in good position.

And watching the kind of the low lights of the run game was eye opening of, I know what you can be, but you're not close to being there yet. You're just not there yet. So how long is that going to take? What's that kind of process? And the other aspect, just to circle back, I said George has a run heavy offense.

He's also one year's starter. He hasn't, I want to see more reps and pass sets. They do a lot of bubbles and they do a lot of play action. What's this guy going to look like when it's third and 11 and you've got to protect an NFL quarterback's blindside? How long is that process going to take? I really believe he'll get there. I think he's got everything to get there.

There's no reason to think he won't. And then let's add another layer. This is the year of the right tackle, right? I'm not convinced some of these guys, by the way. Fano, you could say, has the athletic profile of the left tackle. He played left tackle early in his career. Is he going to kick back to left tackle? I'm not sure that's the case.

There's some damn good right tackles in the NFL. And it seems like some of these teams are like, I'm perfectly fine keeping a Penaisele right tackle. Because they're rushing the good edge rushers at the right tackles at the right tackle. It's not what it used to do. I love the book Moneyball too. I mean, not Moneyball, sorry, blindside. The book blindside.

I don't like the movie. The movie's not like the book. I love the book, Lineside. It's a great book. It's a little dated at this point. It's not the same game of where, okay, you're going to line your best edge rusher up on that side. I'm going to put my most athletic offensive linemen on left tackle, yada, yada, yada, yada.

It just doesn't work like that with matchups and the way things are. So if you get a great right tackle, a pass block, keep them over there. You don't necessarily have to do that. So keeping that mind, I think the two best left tackles that were playing left tackle last year are Caleb Lomu from Utah. and this guy, Monroe Freeling. So it's going to come into, if teams are like,

I don't want to, I'm not necessarily want to get into that game of moving a guy around. They're going to start comparing these two. I like, I like where Lomu's at a little more right now. I think he's more polished. But Freeling's got a higher upside.

That's going to be an interesting debate for those guys. He should be polarizing for people because some of the tape is bad. And some of the tape is great. And the tools are awesome. Yeah. And that position gets drafted by traits. All right, we've got a big,

big interview coming up. I do want to mention before we get out of here in the top 50. And again, the McShay report, Google it, subscribe. It will be in your inbox tomorrow morning, the top 50 with some interesting nuggets. Last year's wide receiver class was disappointing, especially now knowing Travis Hunter's moving a cornerback overall. Full time. But just looking at this list, I've got 10 receivers in my top 50 that will drop

tomorrow morning on Friday morning. And there were just six drafted in the top 50 last year, five, if you take Hunter out of that. And more importantly to this conversation, the edge class that we raved about last year that was just awesome, right? We wound up having a bunch of guys in the top 100, 10 guys in the top 100. I got nine in the top 50 in this year's class. So there might not be an Abdul-Carter. If you don't like David Bailey, if you're like mentioned, you'd think you're,

sucks. Here we go. No. Here we go. So I want to transition. And his work will speak to himself. But we've got Scott Goldman from AIQ. It's athletic intelligence quotient, I believe is how you say.

I think that's right. AIQ. And I'll let him do the bona fides. But like five different white pages, which are like the gold standard, it's like one in the gold metal in terms of like journals journals and the only test we've heard like the what is the s2 cognition test it was a big topic of conversation with the brook purdy and all that this is this guy and his company a iqq is the only one recognized by the NFL okay so they are the foremost authority when it comes to the psychological testing that's going on and he'll explain

this more it's not just about like oh this guy's wicked smart this guy's an idiot you know, it's, it's, it's, even the guys that don't test well, it's then providing a plan for both the player and for the team on what he does well, doesn't do well, what he can work on to improve. Fascinating stuff. Essentially, this is what I found, like quickly identify talent with their, with their, um, with their testing, right, to ensure the fit into your system. How does it fit what you're looking for? Tell us what you're looking for. The 10, I think it's 10 NFL clients. And we'll tell you how. how he fits that.

And then more informed decisions in the heat of the moment, to me, why wouldn't you? I told him in my private conversation, we'll talk about it. If I was a team, I'd say, how much, you're charging that? I'll pay 32 times that so that we're the only ones to get this information. Or at least you can only one in our division, something like that. But anyway, Scott Goldman is next with AIQ, and this is going to be a fascinating conversation. And there he is. How you doing, Scott?

I'm good. How are you? Good, man. We've been worried about this, right? Mention and I are used to not being the smartest guy in the room and we're certain we're not any longer. But also worried that maybe you would be figuring out who we are and doing a psychological profile on who we are in just a few minutes here. So we're afraid of that. But I do, and I shared with the audience before you came on, like the importance of what you're doing.

and how much stock is put into it by general managers and the NFL community and a talent evaluation and how much, like, I value what it is that you're doing. But I do want to give you an opportunity, right? Elevator pitch. I'm a general manager, an owner of an NFL team. Tell me a little bit about the background, what it is you guys are doing and how it is that you've come to the place that you are where you're as integral a part of this draft space and roster building space for NFL teams as you've become.

Yeah, so I think my elevator pitch really starts with a level of compassion. I think what GMs and decision makers have to do is really hard because I think human beings are very complex. So if I were to kind of simplify the process, I think an athletic profile, if it's to be comprehensive, consists of four domains. You've got your physical attributes. Are they big? Are they strong? Are they fast? you've got their experience attributes, you know, grabbing a linebacker from Alabama kind of thing. You know what kind of system they're used to and what they're informed about. Then you've got your personality, right? You know, are they locker room glue guys or are they poison or toxic?

And then the final bucket is intelligence. And that's what we do is we capture intelligence, which is about processing speed and decision-making and reaction time. And if you think of sports as this unsolvable puzzle, it's what are the things between your ears that help you navigate that space on the field and then installs? I know Steve's going to jump in. I want to ask you this real quickly, though, because there's been a lot of, like, publicity about the S2 cognition, I think, is another test. And with like the Brock Purdy situation and all that. And there's some other tests that have been utilized.

like the player assessment test, the PAT. Take the floor here. Not necessarily as much about like bragging on why you guys are the best, but a little bit of credentials. I know like the white pages and the NFL and how they view your relationship with the NFL. What is it that separates what you're doing at AIQ from some of the others that may have gotten some real publicity in over the recent years? Yeah, I mean, where I give those other entities some credit in the business aspect,

of what they're doing. We've always been more about the fidelity of what we're doing. We don't have a publicity department or a team or anything like that. We're just a couple of guys trying to help. Where I think we stand out is twofold. One is in product and the other is in service. So you mentioned it. We took a very scientific approach. We have now five papers that are published in peer-reviewed academic journals, which is really hard to do. None of the other vendors have one. We actually have five. And three of them show significant correlation with on-field performance in the NFL. The other two, one's in the NBA and one's in Major League Baseball. With the NFL ones, we're talking about specific metrics with how it relates to quarterback performance,

you know, like big throw, turnover potential, rushing yards, passing TDs, I mean, all sorts of stuff. On the defensive side of the ball, things like tackles for losses, turnovers, sacks, and then also like things like pre-snap penalties with offensive linemen. So pretty significant science. You mentioned the other part of it, which was, you know, last year the NFL did do an audit, and we were the only assessment tool to be approved by the NFL. And I think they approved us off of two things. One, the science that we have backing what we're doing,

and two, the way that we interact with players. I've been in a building for over 28 years working with elite college football programs, as well as working in the NFL and NBA space. And so I just, I tend to think of players as human beings, which is what they are. And I know that there are somebody's son, they're somebody's friend. So when we interact with the players,

like even when it comes to gathering the data, we give them a copy of the report, we go over it with them. We talk about how we emphasize development and goodness of fit. You know, one of the things I always like to talk about with the players is, and you know this as much as anyone, the secret, right, isn't the first. contract. Like the first contract's exciting. The guaranteed money is exciting, but it's the second

contract that gets you pension and a real payday. And when you think about the average length of an NFL career is 2.7 years, helping extend people's careers. And so that's a big part of what we focus on is not just in the idea of being predictive, which, again, if you can predict, like, we should stop things like murders and terrorist activities and stuff. Like human beings, like I said, are really complicated. But what you can do is you can really think about relationship dynamics and especially with how people process information. So if I were to kind of summarize that to a talking point, it would be this. I think in the draft process and the free agency process, what people get excited about when they get excited about the player. Let's just make up a random, we'll call them,

you know, Rod McShay. Like Rod McShay is on our draft board and we're super excited about The hell of a player. I love it. I love it. He's got game speed, right? But like, what we get excited about Rod is actually his production. But we think that's a one-to-one ratio. And I'm a big believer that production is actually a more complicated formula,

which is player times environment. So when you look at, like, say, the college level, and let's just take, like, the University of Indiana, and you go, oh, we're going to get Rod McShay, the starting type, end for the University of Indiana because he produced all of this stuff. However, our system at the pro level is very different than what Indiana is doing. And that becomes an issue. So we believe at the AIQ that well-informed people make well-informed decisions and that the goodness of fit is key. So when we talk about our findings, when we give a report to a team, we stay with that team and with that player through the entire phase of their career.

So it's not just about selection, it's also about development and then analytics and just putting people in situations and positions of success. First of all, congratulations. That is remarkable and's worth noting. But what does the sausage baking look like here? What is the collection of data look like?

I'm guessing it's not a number two pencil in a classroom like me and Mache growing up. Is it a, do you give them each an iPad and they have to touch? Like, what does the actual test look like? Good question. And I guess the other part of that would be how many athletes have you tested, I guess the football, but maybe across the board?

I don't know whether it's actually a sport specific or a lot of these things are all correlated and relate regardless of the sport. Yeah, great question. And it gives us a chance to kind of go in depth about, like you said, how the sausage is made. My partner, Jim Bowman and I, we spent 15 years. before we even brought this to market. And we started with the concept that sports is an unsolvable puzzle that's constantly mutating.

So we didn't just look at sports. We also looked at other environments that have that. So we looked at military, firefighters, police officers, first responders. So when you think about like a firefighter who kicks a door down and then has to scan for threats and danger as well as people to save, it's very similar to a quarterback who's approaching the line

and trying to identify. defensive coverage and pre-snap reads. So we said sports is this constantly evolving puzzle. What are the aspects of intelligence that can help someone navigate that best? We followed, and this is where things get a little nerdy, we follow the American Psychological Association's ethical guidelines for test construction, and we used something called the Ketellhorn-Carroll theory of intelligence. So if you've ever been tested for giftedness or a learning disability, or if you've had a child that's been tested for giftedness or learned, I'm willing to promise, you that there's a high percentage that it was based off that theory of intelligence. So we took

old wine and brought it to a new world. You asked about our database. Our database is over 15,000 professional athletes across all five sports in North America, as well as European soccer teams and Australian teams like Australian rules football, Australian rugby. When we designed it, we designed it to be purposely international because we wanted to ethically say that we were capturing information that a kid from rural Miami, sorry, urban Miami and rural Iowa would both be considered an equal opportunity when it came to understanding how they process the game. You asked, it's done on an iPad, takes about 30 to 35 minutes, and it's very interactive. It is not language-based. It's not paper and pencil. So sometimes I talk about like, if you want to know how fast a guy is, we have them engage at the combine where they run that 40.

Now, you can make an argument about straight line speed and all that kind of stuff. But the reality is, is you're not asking them how fast they are. You're actually running them through a speed gauntlet. Similarly, we're not asking you how intelligent you are. We're putting you through a series of tasks that look kind of like Candy Crush or some of those other kinds of games that you can download on your app. download on your phone. And so we're engaging them and we're watching how they process.

And what we found is a lot of how they process on our app, based off that CHC theory, is how they translate it and bring it to the field. So if I'm one of these smart GMs and I say I need AIQ

to come help me evaluate this giraffe class, what kind of a product am I getting at the end of this process? What kind of, what do my team? taking from your company that's going to help me draft the right player? Yeah. So you get a couple of things.

One is you get a report, and the report is very- On every prospect? On every prospect. That takes the AIQ. Yeah. Right now, we have, I believe it's, we're around 360 for this year's draft class, and that we're still pretty early in the process. We generally get anywhere between 90 to 95% of the draft class.

So where do you administer? I just assumed that you would be administering the test in Indianapolis. You've already done a lot of these. Yeah. I mean, so we'll go to training facilities. Because we try to get, we try to create an environment that's optimal for the player. We'll shift on the iPad. And again, it really goes back to our concept is I've never met a team that wants to fail.

I've never met a player that wants to fail. But failure occurs all the time because of that bad fit. So the only thing worse than no data is bad data. So we try to capture the AIQ scores in optimal environments. We'll go to training facilities. We'll ship an iPads that they can take it in the comforts of their own home. We go over it with them virtually. So that way, if they have any questions, we can help them take it and understand it.

And really kind of go along the process with them. So going back to what a smart GM, I like the fact that you said it was a smart GM. What a GM gets. He gets a report. but he also gets a full service of us. I get calls all the time and even throughout the season where a coach or a GM will go, hey, can you just give me a quick synopsis

on player X or player Y? We're thinking about moving him from, maybe from being a tight end to a slot receiver or we're thinking about seeing like with this guard play, you know, this offensive guard, can we have them play center? You know, those kinds of things. We also have something new that we call the A.S.

IQ Plus because we're starting to expand in international and I love my wife and I think she would kill me because of how I keep my cell phone close. We created this thing called the AIQ Plus, which we fed it over 297 documents on sports specific intelligence theory. Then we gave it all of our AIQ data. And then, you know, again, like I mentioned, I've been working with NFL teams since 2012 personally. So I leveraged some of my relationships with some of the coaches in front office folks that I consider to be friends and colleagues.

And they even gave us some playbooks, some NFL playbooks. So we taught it all of it. It was like Neo from the Matrix. It was like two second download and I know Kung Fu kind of thing. And so what was neat was you can now ask it. Like I did this the other day just as a thought exercise. Do you remember I think it was 2020? Noah Font and T.J. Hawkinson, right?

Yes. Both came from Iowa, different kind of athletic profiles. So I just asked the AIQ Plus to compare these two guys based off their AIQ score. And it was amazing because the AIQ Plus summarized, T.J. Hawkinson would be a good fit for this style of offense, whereas Noah Font would be much better fit for another style of offense. It broke that stuff down. And I was sharing that with a GM.

And he said, yeah, but it has all that history. It has, you know, the last six years of playing time. I go, the AIQ Plus doesn't get that information. Like, it's not taught that. What it told me a couple days ago is exactly what it would have said on draft day. That's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, and let's circle back because I know there's, there's, there's services like beyond just preparing for the draft. But I do want to get into this. And I think this is where the audience will really start to connect. Like my, if you were going off of rookie year. And I use that as a caveat because, and I'm not hoping for anyone's failure.

But if you're going off of rookie year, I can't think of two players that I missed on more than Teteroa McMillan and Carson Swessinger. And Teteroa McMillan was probably the more fascinating one. I just was a little bit lower on Swessinger, off the ball linebacker, all that stuff. And the traits weren't up to the level where I thought he was being talked about being drafted. With Tetrault and McMillan, I had a lot of sources. And it was like, yeah, not practicing hard.

Attention to detail I saw on tape, but also heard, you know, just wasn't engaged with all these negative things. And I saw it and tape kind of backed it up. and I was worried about what are you getting, kind of the human being stuff and guessing off of tape and conversations. What did AIQ tell you about T-MAC and what he projected and maybe some of the reasons why I heard some of the things and the tape was a lot better in 2023 than it was in 2024

and a coach left and all the different things. What were you armed with and bringing to general managers about Teteroa McMillan? Yeah. just for point of clarity, before we talk about T-Mack and Carson, please know that we do not disclose information publicly unless we have the player and or the agent's permission. Yes, I should have mentioned that yet. No, it's totally cool.

I just, I always want to be respectful of the process and the people that are involved. These are real human beings. Absolutely. I want to note that. But what's nice is both of those individuals are wonderful AIQ stories. before the draft, one of the things that we do as an internal exercise is we kind of highlight people that we think have some special qualities and some real hidden gem kind of mechanisms.

And both of those gentlemen were people that we thought. And to your point, like, I think you weren't the only one who was critical of TMAC and for Carson. And, you know, they're kind of interesting stories. So, you know, I worked at the University of Michigan for four years under the Jim Hart. Barbaugh staff. And Jed Fish, Coach Fish, was one of the people that I had a chance to work with. I got to learn and understand how much he valued multiple option decision tree routes. Yep. And that's pretty complicated. And TeamX AIQ profiles suggest that he is perfectly suited for that kind of like pre-snap read, be on the same page with your, with your quarterback and make these kinds of like adjustments at the line of scrimmage.

And so I think he was doing that really, really well with Coach Fish. Coach Fish leaves go to Washington, right. T-MAC has to make a calibration and adjustment. Maybe there were some things that were going on there. But what was interesting was we had a couple of GMs that also kind of talked about there was some uncertainty. Like the film didn't quite give us the answer there. And I just said, you know, his cognitive profile, his ability to scan, his ability, like his catch-react. radius, his ability to process his catch radius, like high point catches and to kind of go get the ball.

There are aspects of what a wide receiver does that's physical in nature, but then there's also aspects of what a wide receiver does that's very intellectual. And high catch radiance radius is about timing and processing. And his data suggested that he'd be really good at that. So not only was he projecting as a really good route runner and a really good. pre-snap read kind of guy. So I think you have a really sophisticated audience. So if I get a little too simplified, I apologize.

But like when you imagine the wide receiver before the line of scrimp, you know, before the play starts, he's at that line of scrimmage. He's got to identify what that, you know, what the defensive coverage is, first and foremost. Team Mac has some cognitive abilities that suggest that would come easier for him than other people. then it becomes all right now i got to make a decision which route to run make sure the

wide quarterback's on the same page then i go run that route and now a sudden i got to adjust to live time stuff so like think about like a rub or a pick or you know just getting lost in the wash where now of a sudden you got to recalibrate your route that that was also something's kind of like post snap intelligence he possessed a really strong and superior scores in so then And then you look at like just, you know, looking for the ball. Like, you know, balls released while you're still making your moves. And then you break and the ball's halfway there. How good's your reaction time when you have less time to calibrate and adjust?

And you learned all of this from a candy crush type. From slicing fruit on an iPad. Yeah, that's right. We sliced some fruit too. It wasn't just candy crush. But no. But you've got to admit it's a little mind-blowing, right? Yeah.

Like you can sit down for 35 minutes. test and say that his what what not only like I could understand like hey he's smarter than these other guys or he he can adjust to something but like so to drill down that much from a 35 minute test of like pre-snap post snap adjustments catch radius like reaction skills that's pretty wild to me man yeah well I think what you're seeing is for me I've been in this space for years as a sports psychologist that's been embedded with teams. And then you take 25 years of Jim and myself constructing this thing and perfecting it and dialoguing with coaches and in front office folks. Like you're watching a lot of time and effort in really trying to understand, again,

from that four buckets. We're just really trying to understand that intelligence bucket to the highest degree in fidelity. And what about Swessinger? What made him, him, what we were, What made you so confident in what he was going to be in the NFL? Yeah, I mean, like, where do I start? I mean, it was interesting because his profile was so dynamic. It had to do with things like pursuit angles and making adjustments and tackles for losses and being able to kind of like absorb and shed a block. So sometimes, as you know, like, what you need to do is you have to have like gap assignments and stuff.

So, you know, a linebacker who's trying to read. and then you have other aspects to it too. So here's a mechanism, right? Like, let's say it's a gadget play or a gimmick play. So now all of a sudden, personnel is coming out. One of the things that we highlighted was Carson's cognitive profile suggests that he could identify if a specialty package were to come in and could alert the other teammates. His profile actually really suggests he'd be a great green dot guy.

And for those that don't know what a green dot is, it's the dude that, you know, it's the dude that that is the defensive play caller. So what we were saying was like, even before the play starts, we thought Carson would be really good at alerting his teammates. Like, hey, there's a sub package coming in. Hey, there's kind of something's going on. Alert, alert, alert.

And then when the play starts, he would start to kind of anticipate. You know, it's funny because, and you all know this, the NFL is such a game of like stud, It's a students game. That's what I think people seem to forget. They focus sometimes so much on how big and strong and fast these guys are that they forget, like, when you can figure out,

like a running back whose legs are just striated this much suggests that he's going to go out and receive a pass versus get a handoff. Carson can do that. Like, he can scan and pick up those kinds of minute details. That's what the AIQ indicated to us. that said that even though he might not be as big or as strong as some of the other linebackers, kind of what you were pointing out, Todd, he could compensate with his intellectual capabilities and offset some of that.

So what's interesting, right, with both T-Mack and Carson, like T-Mack was a volleyball player in high school, right? Carson was a walk-on. These were folks that people were kind of not quite recognizing what they were capable of. And again, I think Carson for memory serves, like, he only started 10 games. Yeah. That's not a lot of film, you know. And so I think it's nice.

But yeah. Yeah. And people are going, well, is that legit? And why wasn't he there all along? Like, what's with the spike? Like, I just think the AIQ provides information that helps you go, I think I can explain why he's doing what he's doing and how he's able to do it. And then how he can do it for us.

And that's when things get really cool. Two of the most intellectually stimulating hours of my life. I've been multiple hours with one, but sitting now with Chris Spielman, linebacker, and sitting now with Teddy Bruske, linebacker, and watching tape with them.

And thinking I knew what watching tape was and then seeing, like you're talking about, like, the pinky, he moves his pinky or his, he's got, like, they would pick up on a, tendency from one player or four players or whatever it was.

And so much of what they did in the NFL, which was like elite level greatness, was based of, yeah, they're physically talented and all that. But there were a lot of other guys that were as talented or more talented. It was here in the processing. So I don't know. This stuff is fascinating to me. I want to spin it forward. Yeah.

And again, to reiterate your point earlier, you have four players that you've tested in this year's draft. class. I think this is where our audience would really be kind of dialed in that that gave you permission to share their their results. I want to start with one of the most intriguing, if not the most intriguing player in the entire draft in Arvel Reese because not like the physical, it doesn't take a Super Scout to figure out 6-4 wingspan, 2.45 runs, you know, like, the traits are amazing. But as we're now looking at it and say, you know what, he may not be an offball linebacker, or maybe he'll be in a hybrid role, or maybe he'll be an edra.

Does he have the ability to make that transition after you tested Arvel Reese, and we haven't talked about this. I have no idea what you're going to say about these four players. What is it that you found with Arvel Reese that would be important for your NFL general managers sitting there at pick two, like the New York Jets or three with the Cardos? What is it that they would want to know? Yeah. Well, can I take a slightly macro approach for a sec? Sure. And then we'll go micro. I had the pleasure of working with Coach Patricia for about four years.

He is a genius and a heck of an educator. And his offensive schemes are really, I'm sorry, his defensive schemes are really complicated. I mean, they're just, they're cool to watch. I mean, he is a master of his craft. Agreed. Looking at this year's Ohio State's defense and having the ability to analyze their core defensive players, because we have almost all of their players, but we've got their core right now, like Caleb Downs, et cetera, Sunny Stiles, Arvill.

I can see now how good that defense was, and one of the mechanisms of it was how they could disguise their coverage, how they could really go and attack and they could do all these things. And it's interesting, right, because some of what I'm hearing as far as chat around the NFL as a criticism about Arvo Reese is like, well, is he this or is he that? And the fact that Coach Patricia used them in both situations successfully is kind of where I'm getting at with Arval Reese. So that's the macro as you go, wow, look at how Coach Patricia used this really intelligent group of players to play with each other and off of each other in super cool ways.

Eight of which weren't starters because eight of them from a year, the year prior got drafted. And so to be able to come in and teach all of this high level stuff, like you said, not just a master in like the X's and O's, but the teaching of it, but also I think you're alluding to to have the individuals that can pick it up. We're talking about like limited time, one off season, and to pick it up to the level where they had the best defense in all of college football this year is pretty wild. Yeah, and like you just kind of remind me of something that coach Cignetti said, right, where he was like, hey, short practices makes less injuries.

And you look at like, again, the offensive line. So Indiana, offensive line of Indiana, highly intelligent group. I mean, they're AIQ scores we have. And you just watch not only like when it comes to making decisions like, you know, zone, you know, zone blocking schemes versus just straight man or a guard that can pull. But just watching how that unit across the board is highly intelligent, you see how they are essentially kind of a brick wall. So again, sometimes the way that I think about the NFL

and this kind of offense versus defense is like, the offensive line is a brick wall. And the defensive player is a cannonball. so the offensive line can't have a weak link right they all have to be strong but a defensive player can line up anywhere and try to break that wall and break through it yeah excuse me so when you look at the chess aspects arval ral reese and what coach precious was doing was this almost like positionless versatility kind of like the stuff that micah parsons has been doing for the last couple years or if you look at like some of Dan Quinn's defense, Coach Quinn in the commanders, like you can be really

creative with a player. So the first thing that stands out to me about, about Arval Reese, his versatility and his ability to handle the responsibilities of multiple attacking points. And therefore, you can line him up in a lot of different places and spaces versus other guys might be better suited as almost like a C ball, hitball, let's just line them up, you know, put your fingers in the dirt and go get them. Like, Arval Reese, like, you can disguise a lot of stuff and you can do a lot of stunts and twists

and you can kind of do some. And then you think about like, you know, sometimes you have to take guys off on third down because it's like, it's, you just become too predictable. If it's a C ball, hitball kind of guy, you're too predictable. But like his data suggests

that he could be like a really versatile third down where he could he could drop into coverage, he can attack a rushing play, as well as go after the ball carrier. His scores also suggest, because that's one of the things we found, was SACs, TFLs, and turnovers. His scores align with that metric that suggests he's going to have success in those three statistical categories. That's wild.

One of my favorite players in this class is, is Chris Johnson the corner from San Diego State. Todd said you might have something on him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've been dying to ask that question. Yeah. That's my God. When I saw that name come up, I'm like, oh, boy, here we go.

So a couple of aspects of the things that we measure are things like field awareness and field vision. And he has superior aspects in both of those. So if he gets lost, he gets turned around or if he gets kind of bumped with some rubs or some pick plays, like he's able to calibrate and adjust to that and then can pursue at a really efficient way. It's super cool. And then it becomes sort of like, he's an interesting one, right? Because it's sort of like, do you put him in the slot or do you put him outside?

I think he could be successful in both. In fact, I asked that of our AIQ Plus because there was a front office person who was curious about. him. And I was like, yeah, let's see what, and sure enough, it said he has the cognitive profile that suggests he could fit the slot or he could be outside. Now, I don't know about his physical abilities and limitations there, but from an intellectual standpoint, he could survive in both the inside or outside, which again makes, makes it really neat if you wanted to do some, some funky stuff on defense to try to confuse the quarterback. What's interesting about that to me is,

I tried to cut him off. This excites me because watching his tape, I thought that's where he stood out from a lot of different corners, is that when he has his back to the quarterback, he doesn't panic. He has a feel for it. He knows how to locate the ball. He's obviously a playmaker.

It's something, you know, you see it from your results. I see it on tape. I love that those things kind of link. Well, and just to pull on that thread, because that's a cool moment. I feel like when you have two independent sources of information that have alignment, then you have a lot more confidence and conviction in what you see and believe. And when those things are misaligned, it doesn't mean either one's wrong.

It just means there's some other factor that's influencing the situation, and we should further explore that. Well, it's like the T-MAC thing was providing a why, right? potentially a why. Like maybe he wasn't challenged without Jedfish there. Maybe it wasn't an offense that forced him to utilize what his strengths are.

And with Chris Johnson, it's I'm getting support. Like you said, supporting what I'm seeing on tape. And also it's worth mentioning like Bill Belichick, Nick Sabin, two of the greatest all-time defensive minds and defensive backs. And like their biggest things are

when the ball's in the air. What separates an average or a good from a great is no panic when the ball's in the air. And so to hear that your testing is backing what we're seeing on tape with Chris Johnson makes me want to go change my top 50 right now, you know. There's a lot of things to take into consideration. And this is just one piece of the puzzle for sure. Eli Stowers, the tied in from Vanderbilt's interesting because he's not the biggest.

I don't think he's going to be the fastest in Indy next week. but my gosh, he just produces and he seems to find ways to uncover. When I watch him, like, after the catch, just the vision, there's just a lot of cool things with him in a tight end class that has the most tight ends in recent history brought into Indianapolis. He's, I think he might be tight end too in this class behind Kenyon Sadiq from Oregon. What did you get from your testing from at AIQ? you on Eli Stowers? Well, if I can take a, I promise I'll come back, but a slight pivot. One of the NFL teams that we've been working with for years gave us a tip where they said,

you know, when we look at your white papers, you kept the position group regardless of draft status, which is amazing that we found significance because the way I would explain that is like, first rounders are unbelievably physically gifted in the NFL. So to say that we didn't pull them out, make them a special group, and found all this significance, what this team, what this analytics person for this team said to us, which was unbelievably helpful, as he said, you know, if you separate the position group by draft rounds, you're going to see the AIQ has even more impact. So we started to do that just for funties, right?

Right. So if and just just think about it like practically. Like for example, you don't see a lot of offensive tackles getting taken in the fourth or fifth round. You know, one, there's just not that many of them and the good ones are gone fast. Yep. So to kind of look and take into consideration of what kind of offensive tackle do you need in the fourth round is it's already a long shot just statistically speaking. But, and this is what reminded me of this, is you're talking about a tight end. We're starting to find, like, day two, day three guys, like tight ends that have really good what we call spatial awareness, which is knowing where you are in relation to teammates, opponents, where you are on the field, seems to kind of have this standout.

So to your point and going back to Eli, it's amazing because his processing speed, his decision making, his ability to kind of find the holes in the coverage is really dynamic. And that's what stood out with the AIQ. So we're now engaging in this experiment and exercise where we're separating by position and by rounds and looking for these like, hidden gems. And if you think about it, and this is something for like your audience, if you can get a starter from a fourth round, that organization is saving themselves somewhere between five and eight million. Oh, yeah. And over a four year span, it's a multiplier, right? And that that cap space can go to free agents. It can go to fill all their holes. So I think what we've figured out was there are certain aspects of the AI

that trend really well with different positions. So like a tight end really needs to sit in the zone, needs to have that pre-snap read. I mean, you know, tight end position is almost as complicated as the quarterback in regards to their responsibility because they have to block, they have to catch, they have to do all that, right? So it just becomes a neat mechanism

where we're starting to figure out specific aspects of the AIQ that really match with different positions, both on the offense and defense, side of the ball. All right. Last one. Here's a linebacker, like Schlesinger a year ago. Jake Galday, who's one of the, you know, physically, he's a thumper.

He's a big, powerful dude, highly rated coming into the year. You know, he's kind of been a steady guy, but plays at Cincinnati. Maybe nationally people don't know him as well, but very much a day two prospect. What do you have on Galdi? It's like you're kind of like you're hitting all of our greatest hits. Accidentally, I promise. He's another one who I think is a really dynamic profile. I mean, his ability to download a playbook.

So it becomes interesting, right? You can have a really thick playbook and take a regular amount of time to absorb it. You could take a light playbook and learn it fairly quickly. he actually can take a big playbook and learn it quickly, which I think is a really unique skill set. So one of the things that really stands out about his scores was his ability to absorb information. One of the things that I find that happens in installs

is when it's a really important detail, the coach will overtalk. Instead of just making their point moving on, the coach goes, let me tell you about this point, let me tell you about this point, let me tell you about this point. One of the things that's nice is we can go to the team that drafts this guy, drafts Jacob, and we can say, hey, if you tell him once and he says, I got it, coach, you can trust that and move on.

That'll save you time. It'll save you attention. It'll save his frustration. And you can put your time and attention to some other players that might need more of those reps. Similarly, you can ask him to start to teach some of the other rookies or some of the other people in the position route. Jeez. This is fascinating, man. Like, I just, A, I don't know how every team, like, it would be the first thing if I took a GM job is to make sure that I had access to this kind of information because why wouldn't you want it, you know?

And second of all, to hear the detail. And even beyond, like, they're drafted. Now if you have a client, you're then continuing to work with that organization on, all right, this is happening. this is bothering us. Solutions, right? Yeah. So, first of all, I hope you do become, after hearing you say how much you want to use this,

I really hope you do become a GM someday. And I hope it's one of the teams that we're not currently. I enjoy working with Mench. Look at this beautiful man with his beard. How can I believe him? He definitely does not have a face for radio. That we can say. No question.

Thank you. You will. But going back to it is, if you think about this is more than just a number, this is more than just a one and done moment, that this is really what we've done and what we've tried to do is we've tried to be a resource through the whole year, from onboarding a player to acclimating

and figuring out how to use them in the best possible situations and then continuing to develop as things calibrate and adjust. There was a team that won a Super Bowl recent, recently and their offensive line coach would bring me out and we would put their AIQ profiles up in formation you know center guards tackles and you go okay like how do these guys work together if this one gets injured which one of these guys that are backups would be best suited here and he you know after they won the super bowl he circled back and said look that was that exercise was integral to what we were doing with a lot of our keeping our offensive line intact

That's wild. I think it's a perfect way for us to wrap this up. Scott, I can't thank you enough for taking time. I know how busy you are right now. And I know our audience will appreciate it. Our whole goal is I did 20 years with the big network and 90 second hits on he ran to this 40.

Like there's so much more to this entire process. And I think you were able to in a short period of time, give everyone an understanding. of what's going on. As I shared with it, Steve, I always knew that there was, you know, the interview process and some teams had psychologists and all that. Until I, when Bill Polion left the Colts,

six-time executive of the year, when we got to just talking about his process, and he really, like, for a long time, explained how important their process was with psychology and how they utilized it. I didn't quite have an understanding. and now to see where it's growing and the levels and the intricacies and the detail that you at AIQ have been able to provide is just, it's fascinating to me. So I wish you all the best of luck.

I'm going to be texting you constantly about every single player I watch to get confirmation or to get answers. And I hope eventually you'll have to block me, but that's fine. You wouldn't be the first. There will be no blocking. Look, this has been a really enjoyable experience. Both of you are phenomenal interviewers. I mean, just to bring it full circle, right? If what we really want is production,

and that's player times environment, I can't thank you both enough for creating such a wonderful environment that gave us a chance to really talk about this because I think the AIQ is complex. So I can't thank you both enough for an opportunity to help teach about how we can help players and teams. We passed the test. We did.

We did. I feel good about it, Mitch. And I'm sure this won't be the last time we come knocking. So we'll talk to you again soon, Scott. Thanks, Scott. Thank you so much. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.

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