The McShay Show - Todd’s Top 150 Big Board! Risers, Fallers, Team Fits, and More. Plus, a Linebacker Deep Dive.

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd's updated Top 150 Big Board is out! He and Steve kick off with a look into his top 15 players, Shedeur Sanders’s status in the first round, and more. Then, they dive deep into the tape of this year’s linebacker class, including Jihaad Campbell, Carson Schwesinger, and their favorite prospects in the mid-to-late rounds. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:52) Todd's Updated Top 150 Player Rankings (11:17) Shedeur Sanders Will NOT be a Top 5 Pick (26:13) Todd's Odds: Shedeur Sanders Draft Position O/U 7.5 (27:43) Evaluating the Potential Trade Market for a Top 10 Pick (38:06) Who Should the Browns Take at #2? (42:00) Could the Patriots take Will Campbell at #4? (49:10) Jalon Walker is Not Lasting Long in the Draft... (53:30) Checkout Todd's Top 150 Rankings on The McShay Report (55:10) Deep Dive: Linebacker Prospects (58:28) Deep Dive: Jihaad Campbell [LB1] (1:03:45) Deep Dive: CARSON SCHWESINGER [LB 2] (1:10:30) Deep Dive: DEMETRIUS KNIGHT [LB 3] (1:19:33) Deep Dive: Cody Simon, Ohio State LB (1:21:39) Deep Dive: Barrett Carter, Clemson LB The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Sign up for The McShay Report to receive Todd’s updated Top 150 Big Board and other premium content throughout draft season. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the McShea show presented by Fanduel. It's our time. It's officially NFL draft season, and you can get in on all the action with Fanduel. Fandul has lots of ways to bet on the draft like pick position, team to draft a player, exact order, top five and ten picks, and so much more. When you win, you get paid instantly. Fandual always has exclusive offers. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use, so download Fandual Sportsbook app. app today and make every moment more during the NFL draft.

The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-Help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available. And listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Big show. Top 150 is out now on the McShay report. We got a lot to get to, including our position group deep dive on linebackers.

But first, we're going to tear into my updated rankings and unpack some of the recent intel gathering. Where will Shador fall? Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter for the Browns at two. Could an old familiar name reemerge in the top five and which Georgia pass rusher is getting a lot of love from personnel folks that I've been talking to in the league? Just 21 days until the NFL draft and I'm feeling it. Mench, you good? I'm good, man. All right, play me that beat, please.

As always, we appreciate you being here. We're thankful for your support. We've got a lot to get to, as I said, off of the top. Munch, tell the folks how they can help support us. Got to hit the follow button on the Spotify. You've got to hit the subscribe button on the YouTube channel. Follow us on our socials. He's at McShay 13.

I'm at you good, M-M-H-M-C-H. And as always, consider subscribing to the McShea report. A lot of good stuff in there, believe it or not. He's the best in the business, folks. All right. Top 150 is out, as I mentioned. We've done a top 100. We've done top 32s.

We're getting deep into these evaluations. So now is the time to drop this first top 150, my first top 150 in a couple of years, match, right? Yeah. Let's, hey, talk. Let's roll some of these graphics. The top 15. Let's just roll it out here.

And if you want to get the entire top 150, just subscribe already, would you? To the McShay report. Just Google it. The McShay report. report. It'll be the first thing that pops up. $4 to get you through the rest of this draft. $36 for the what is it called, Munch? The double down. There you go. The double down. Now here you see, same guys at the top, same names. And here's what I think, match. I want to get your opinion. Okay. I've got, obviously when you look at it, right, we've got one quarterback sitting here

at the top. Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter, Mason Graham, Genty, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, and Jalen Walker. They're kind of like the blue tip players. We're going to get to Jalen Walker in a little bit, but they're kind of like the position players who are the blue chip guys, right? So let's get to it here, match, right? Here's kind of how I see it. It's been a lot of the same names. I've got Cam Ward up there at number six. You can put him at seven. You can put him at eight. He's a top 10 prospect. We've already talked about where we would tier rank him with the other quarterbacks from a year ago, right? What I find intriguing now is, like, the more conversations I have, and literally the grades haven't changed, these are the guys, the position players,

Abdul Carter at one, Travis Hunter at two, wide receiver corner. Then you get Mason Graham, Ashton Jinty, kind of right there in that next tier. Then you've got Tyler Warren and Jalen Walker. Those are the players that I believe, any mock draft you do, any conversation you have with people in the league. Those are the six position players. Then it gets, from that point on, it's kind of, you know, the old like blue and red scale we used to deal with in the old days. Like, those are the blues. Then you kind of get into the reds, guys who you believe are going to be good starters, but they're not blutes. They're not the blue chip players, if you will. And that's where you get into, like, the Colston Loveland, Judi Baron, Armand Membu, Will Campbell,

Omarian Hampton, the second running back in this class. And then you get into the edge rushers and then further down, you get in the interior defensive lineman. Then you flip over, right, to the 16 through 30. Here's what I think is interesting going even back to the bottom of that first 15. We've talked so much. And even in the last, we did the deep dive into defensive linemen. This is where it gets like heavy. Eight edge and interior defensive linemen, munch I had from 13 to 30.

Okay. And I'll list them right now real quick. you've got Mike Green at 13 the Marshall Edge, Shamar Stewart from Texas A&M, and I promise you when you talk to people in the league, the list is like it's all over the board, but they're kind of all in the same range. This like 13 to 30 range, okay?

Then it's Mikel Williams from Georgia, the other edge rusher from Georgia. Derek Harmon, defensive tackle, IDL, another edge, James Pierce, who I already said, if he's clean, if he's clear, like clear character and all the other issues, he's i think i actually think we'd be talking about him as one of the balloons but he's not no but he's

just not okay and then beyond that you've got um donovan as a raccoe from boston college walter nolan from uh from old miss and kenneth grant defensive tackle from michigan in this top 30 what jumps out of you well there's a lot of defensive lineman but i'll tell you what really jumped out in the name that you didn't mention is Teteroa McMillan at 28 is, I think, a lot lower than some people think he should be. Agreed. I have him higher, but I just don't think anything. I'm hearing a lot of noise about going to 12 to Dallas now.

Right. I would put him in that bucket of the 91s that you have. So that would move him up into the 18 range. We're talking about 12 spots. I haven't ranked a little bit higher than Golden right now, but I love Golden too. I just think they're two different cats, man. I think they do two different things.

But I think that's a little low on Tetaroma Bill, and that would be the first thing that jumped out on me. And then you see Jackson Dart at 21, but you've been bullish on that for a while now. I think other people are starting to come around on it, based on what we're seeing some of the tweets on X, some other people are falling in love with the Jackson Dart tape. So I love when you stick your little jabs in

So, yeah, so I don't hate it. I mean, that, that's, and, you know, another, I'm just looking at them. I've looked at them all day. Now I'm looking at them in a little bit more. I like that you have Malachi Stark at 18. He did not have a great year. I believe in the player. I think the 20, 23 tape is, is that good.

I think their secondary was, went through a lot of changes this year. Malachi Stark, Malachi Stark, the safety from Georgia, I think is going to be a dude, the league. Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean, certain players, you just, when, you're done with the evaluation and then you go make sure that you're not missing anything medical, not missing anything character. And I can say this. There's nothing to do. The two players that

I know I'm lower on and it's okay, because not everyone has to fall in love with everyone. And I still've got them in my top 30. Okay. The two players, I know them a little bit lower on, and it just so happens to coincide with them a little bit higher on their counterparts, are the cornerbacks and the wide receivers. You just touched on Golden and Tet McMillan. I'm cool with it, man. I can't tell you how many times I've sat there and be like, yeah, we're pick 11.

Dallas is probably going to take Tet here. I got them at 29. I'm going to have to go down my list and cross them off there. But I'm not embarrassed by it. It's just what I think, right? And that's the difference between a mock draft. And we'll find out in three years who was right and who was wrong. Right.

Trust your process. Trust your process. And it's okay. And I mentioned cornerback. I'm higher on Judi Barron from Texas. And I get it. He's 5.10 and a half. He's 194 pounds.

Played a lot of zone. Ran faster than people thought, though. You know, when he... Whereas some people are probably higher on Michigan's Will Johnson. Is that what you're saying? And Will Johnson is the guy. Every mock draft I read, Will Johnson's going higher. And a lot of rankings.

And then I talked to some people in the league. And they're like, I'm a little higher on Will. but I talk to other people in the league. I see it the same way you do, bud. So it's okay. We're talking about a difference of 10 spots and one point integrating system, by the way, just to keep that all perspective.

It's not like a hate Will Johnson, man. One thing that's been consistent here is that quarterback, and you mentioned one of them, Jackson Dark, has been in the 20s for a while for me. Okay. And at 19, this is two rankings I've released, top 100 and top 150. One name has not changed.

change from the number two is left. And that's, that's the quarterback from Colorado, Shador Sanders. So we'll get back to the 150. And we'll go a little bit deeper into that later in the show. And I want to remind everyone we've got, we've got linebackers to cover as well. And I also want to remind people, hey, come on. We're just, we're, we're 21 days away. We got mock drafts coming up. I've got my top final top 100, which is going to be in the top three or four of a hundred different people who

put it up on the huddle report at the end of the year. But we'll have the top 300 we're going to have. We're going to have all the intel and information that you need leading up to this draft. And after the draft, doing deep breakdowns in it. Just go Google the McShay report. Yeah. Help a brother out. Four bucks.

Are you like saving that familiar name in the top five? You haven't told me. I don't think people realize you'd like to surprise me on the show as much as you do. I do. Are we saving that for later? I know you have your whole thing laid out. I'm dying to know. We jumped in.

We got our producers and our directors and our tech people and all the geniuses that make this thing work. And the first thing I said to you was not appropriate for on air, but the second thing I said was buckle up. We get some stuff we're going to get to. And I want to see your natural reaction. That's usually how we do it here. Okay. So that's the first entree into the top 150.

We'll cover some of the other highlights towards the end of the show before we get into our deep dive on linebackers. We've done these position dives. And they've gone an hour and 50 minutes, wide receivers, the quarterbacks inevitably. defensive line with like 70 guys. It felt like we had to get to. Linebackers isn't the same deal. So we can kind of hyper focus on a handful of guys that are going to go in the first three

rounds and maybe three or four names you could hear late third, early fourth that could be impact players at the next level. But Chodor Sanders, I've had him at 19 for a while now. There's varying grades. Some people have them higher than me. I feel like a decent amount of people I talk to kind of have them in the same range as me. talking about people in the side of the league. And there's a handful of people.

And it's been reported by other outlets and other individuals that some people have second round grades on. Okay. And that's fine too. But for the first time in this entire process, dating back to our very first show in October 22nd, I truly believe Shador Sanders is not going to be a top five pick. Now, I want to remind you on Monday. We said it.

We started this conversation. I'm proud of us for that. And we said on Monday, it's not looking likely. And again, I'm not, I'm not breaking news. Like, I haven't talked to Brian or Joe with the, with the Giants. And I haven't talked to Stefanski. I haven't talked to Andrew Barry with the Browns. They haven't told me anything.

Of course not. We're not breaking news here. But we told you on Monday that the winds are shifting. Okay. And we applied football, football logic. to it. We said at that point, and I want to hammer this home, okay? And I want, if you, like, I'm saying this for a reason, because these are the conversations I'm actually having with people in the league. And that's the part that's interesting. I think people who have, like, people assume, and maybe I'm

wrong, but I think people assume it's like, hey, hey, Johnny, you know, how's it going? How's your family? How's your job as the assistant GM or the GM or the director of college? All right. So, give me your board who you who do you like what are your knee like those are not how the conversations go right conversations are football conversations they start out like what do you think on this guy i'm struggling with this guy have you heard this thing about the character and then they just start going from there and then usually the questions i get back what are you hearing what are you hearing it three what are you hearing it too i'm hearing this and then well i'm hearing this and so it's just they're organic conversations but the thing that always happens

during these conversations is that you apply football logic to things. And the conversations I'm having continue to surround this subject. You got a certain grade on Travis Hunter, right? You got a certain grade on Abdul Carter. That certain grade, just by everyone's account, even when Tennessee came out in the beginning, we said four guys, the position, two position players that were, mentioned in there were Abdul and Travis. You read everything,

you hear all the quotes, it's Travis and Travis, it's Travis and Travis, well, if Cam Ward goes number one and you're sitting there two and three and you have a quarterback need, you better have a damn high grade on Shador or else football logic tells you just take one of these

blue players. Right. Blue guys are guys you think can be perennial pro bowl type players. That's kind of the description. They're stars. They're difference makers, right? Right. Do you think you're a...

Go ahead. Do you think you're a Shador Sanders away from being a Super Bowl contender if you're one of those teams? I mean, that's what it really comes down to. Like, you have to believe in him that much. You have to believe that he can win Super Bowls for you to take him over. It can't be, we're just going to get a little bit better in the quarterback room here. That can't be the move.

You know what I mean? It can't... Yeah. It can be like, we have a need, so we're going to get a little bit better here. That's not what you use those picks for. That's not how those are used. And I usually keep these conversations we have, I come in kind of hot, like I'm here in Shador, you could go three of the giants could do it and people.

And I'm getting kind of like, would you, would you take them if you had Abdul sitting in your lap or tries, you know, that's kind of the, the flow of these conversations, just to kind of peel back the curtain a little bit. So the winds were starting to shift and we felt it on Monday, right? And then, and then you look at like. what we were saying kind of matched our evaluation and the evaluation most people had, and even the people who are higher on Shador, the evaluation and the grade don't match up with Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter and their grade and their evaluation.

I think that's pretty consensus, right? I would think so. So logic would tell you that it feels a little desperate to take a player that you got as a red, if you will, or a third tier or whatever it is. over a this guy's going to be a star right and then we even mentioned on monday like the fan duels and and you know let's look at those and all of a sudden those had shifted like you it's like the santa and wins right is that right san anna wins yeah i think so but something like that meanwhile we got all these all these Tucker says yes Tucker and everyone we got all

out in California right now they're like bozos those We got the winds coming down from Maine, the Gulf of Maine. That's what we're used to. But it also led me to this, right? Oh, and side note, as I'm having these conversations, and we started the conversations on Monday. And I'm having more conversations. I've seen just recently, like, Shefter now.

I was like, I don't know that. And we're not in the information business. And no one has a report. No one's reporting. anything right the same kind of like an albert brier it's to say like start from all the conversations and people i'm talking to it doesn't start not quite adding up and but so i think those are those are important things to keep in mind here i also thought about this i think we're looking at the right things social media and the right tips and the right stuff out of shouldaurs camp i don't know

that we're always reading it the right way interesting right Um, because it's interesting to me that Shador's camp, the, the, the messaging, it started to change recently. No one's talked about this. Okay. Okay. What was the messaging in October and November and December? You tell me, what was Primes, what was the messaging coming out of Shador's camp?

About where they're going to, they're going to control where they go. Exactly. He's not going to go. Yeah. Okay. Tell me, but a roller coaster. Paraphrase, when October, November, December, what was the messaging? coming, just paraphrase it for me.

From Coach Prime, it was my son's not going to play just anywhere. We're going to put him in a good situation to win. And basically, he was like, don't try me. I mean, that's what I, I mean, I am paraphrasing, but basically he was like, don't try me. Don't draft them. If you don't, you know, if we tell you not to draft them, don't draft them. Right. And so, and then I go to the combine.

We go to the combine. And I have a couple conversations. And I've made it perfectly clear. I'll never, I'll never reveal who they were with. they were with individuals who were in the interview room that were in the teams that were drafting in the top 10 that had quarterback needs. And they, and paraphrasing this as well, just didn't get the sense that Shadour cared all that much about what we thought of him.

Wasn't like that. Wasn't that kind of meeting. Wasn't disrespectful. Nothing was said. Wouldn't even classify it as arrogance. Would classify it as just as different. different than all the other interviews we do, where it feels like a job interview, everything's in state.

Yeah, just hey, here, we're having fun. What's up? Nice to meet you. Yeah. Yep. So we got all of that pre-combine, then the combine, the conversations that I had at the combine with those individuals. And it's like, what did I say coming out? I was like, they must know because it wouldn't be very smart to start reducing that pool. Right.

Supply demand. Don't close doors. man don't close doors but it was interesting then right because all of a sudden Cleveland you see should door with the Brown's hat on it in one picture somewhere that I started the conversation I'm glad we had this conversation I think I had the wrong scent which is fine it's fun to do but it's also it led us to it led us to a really good conversation when he came out and there was the pictures and he was doing the watch up and sending them love over to Travis Bezano Bezano Bezano

their Major League Baseball team. I guess he's a star in the making. Had to Google them. Like, you should Google the McShea report. But I think it got us on the wrong scent, but it led to some interesting conversations about Stefanski and Andrew Barry and what Stefansky needs and how they have to win now. They don't have money to do it,

but they are going to need someone on their rookie contract to develop. How do you do all those things? is Stefansky one way pocket passing not mobile not the biggest arms processors fast shadors all those things you know who else is all those things her cousins okay and he's and he's done it with them and i also want to remind you my very first conversation that i had with you on this show when i was coming out with the first mock draft i said the information i'm getting is that cleveland's cleveland doesn't believe their long-term answers here at number two And I'm hearing a lot of, so remember you're like,

don't get those poor Brown fans going. Kurt Cousins, but I said this back in January. I promise I did. And I'm not like, I'm not here doing this. I'm telling you, I sniffed out the wrong information already. Like I'll tell you when I'm wrong and I'll tell you when. And again, I, this could all be a smoke screen and should or could be the pick. I'm just saying as we're, it feels like the winds are shifting.

And I'm telling you how this whole thing has gone through. So, so now. instead of like playing it cool and and and sticking i stopped hearing coach prime coming out and being like we're we're going to put them where we want and i started seeing on instagram and social media that brown's hat shadur's wearing a browns hat shader Travis bazana um new york giant stuff throughout this process little hints and and posts and different things then Prime saying and then having to retract, but saying we really wanted to be New York in some interview

that he was at some conference that he was at, right? Right. Then the Shador pick with Gino Smith after he became with a Raider. Raiders pick at six. Then Prime, then Prime most recently coming out, before he got that massive contrast extension, but I think it was at the Big 12 Pro Day, wherever it was very recently in the last week or two,

saying, I'm happy and comfortable with any team that's drafting early in the first round. That's a big shift, man. Yeah, it is. We vetted all these teams that need a quarterback drafting in the top 10, and I'm comfortable with all of them. That's not the message that was coming out of team to George's camp in October and November and December.

Okay. So you look at this and it just makes me feel like maybe they suddenly have realized that they don't hold the cards at this poker table. And it's starting to feel a little like, hey, look at me, Des, like, yep, wherever you want. Yep, we're good. That's fine. Right. Yeah. We said this after the combine, man.

Don't overestimate your value. You put yourself in a real bad spot. And I don't think, and I've said this for a long time, if it's not three, if it's not too, to Cleveland, if it's not three to the Giants, I don't think it's the Jets at seven, and I don't think it's the Raiders at six. I think they could, I think those teams could look quarterback with their second pick, or maybe in the Raiders case, their third pick, if it's Will Howard with Chip Kelly. And so now we're sitting, if this is how it plays out, and I'm starting to truly believe

this is how it's going to play out, we're sitting at pick. eight in Carolina's there. Really? And Abdul and Travis have gone two and three, and I want to get to that in a second. Okay. But they got a blue player. They got an elite player.

Those two teams got their elite position player. Okay? And now we're sitting there at eight in your Carolina. And yeah, I got an edge need. But maybe Jalen Walker's gone. Maybe is it Mikel here? Pretty good class. And then the phone starts ringing because everyone knows the Saints

could be taking a quarterback. Right. Right? So who's coming up? So it got me thinking, what would it cost? Because I don't think it's going to be Cleveland. I just don't get that sense. Again, information, conversations.

I think there's more love in the Giants building than there is in the Browns building for Shador, but I could be dead ass wrong. I truly could be. And Shador's going to work out privately for the Browns coming up. And he's got his pro day at Colorado. But it got me thinking, right? Oh, and by the way, I reached out, I can't help myself.

I reached out to our good friends at Fanduel. We appreciate their support just like we appreciate all of your support. We're tuning in on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast. I reach out to our good friends at Fandual. Unbelievable partners. Every time I ask, they answer. Tucker, unfortunately, has to be the go-between. on a lot of these occasions.

But they get back to me like that. But they're now starting to get a little frustrated. Not frustrated. They think it's fun. I'm like a clown to them. Like, hey, who do you know? And I'm always asking. This time I ask, I was like, what do you got?

Where has the line shifted at all? Because I think before it was Shador. They've had odds on Shador. And it was like plus 300 that he goes to. It was plus 170 on Monday when we talked about it. that he goes at three. Is there an over under, I ask, though? Because I know, I've told you all my, right,

my degenerate friends, all of them. And I'm no better than them. I love them. And I, one of these days, I'm going to just start pounding these draft props. But I reached out to Fanduil, and they said they have not put it out yet. They call it, what do they? They joke around about it. And Tucker just told me, plus 185 for Shador at 3.

It was 170 or 175 just the other day. But so they joke around, yeah, here you give Todd's odds is what they say. These hypothetical odds, it's not always, so tell Todd's odds here. This is, this is the deal for Fanduil. We would, we haven't brought it to market yet, but it seems like they're going to be coming out soon with it. The over under we would set at somewhere between seven and a half and eight and a half. Wow. So the winds are shifting.

Okay. Where there's smoke. So you got the Saints at 9, and I think Shador would be the pick there, but I don't know for sure. Right. I also heard some love with Jackson Dart there. I've also heard that they're like, they think they can win now a lot more than a lot of other people think they can win now. And they're looking to plug some holes. And maybe it's a pass rusher there.

But if you do like Shadour and you had to take Travis, Hunter at three. Let's say Abdul goes to, and we can have that conversation a minute. Let's say Abdul goes two. Let's say the Giants take Travis Hunter at three. They make the right football decision based off of grades. But they still, they're like, man, you know, like the Baltimore Ravens that one year. They trade it up, right? Yep. They traded up to get Lamar Jackson to move back in. Okay, 2018. We talked to Eric Jacasta told a great story. It still lives on YouTube. If you want to go watch it. I'm not, I'll paraphrase it real quickly, but essentially they made their first round pick. It was a tight end. Um, uh, Hayden Hurst. Hayden Hurst. Yeah. Interestingly enough, they,

they also drafted Mark Andrews, I believe it was the third round. Yeah. Mark Andrews. Later on that draft. Mark Andrews. Yeah. Um, but anyway, everyone had cleared the room. They're getting ready to go do their PR and Ozian and, uh, Eric, we're sitting back and, and they're like, wait a second we might pick up a phone we might get in for the 30 second pick they did 2018 so i had i had connor dan looked this up sorry i had dan comer who's our our main man who's always digging stuff up for us among 50 other hats he wears for the show so 20 that 2018 trade i had him look this up because i'm interested in 34 to to 8 right i'm burying the lead i always yell at my kids i start with the headline and then tell me

me what you're like stop telling me all the other nonsense so the lead here is it got me intrigued because i don't think cleveland would do it i could be wrong but i think the giants like there's been some some talk about it and i i don't it's not based or founded on anything but i think the giants would would be the most likely to make that big of a leap we haven't seen anything quite like this though at least in my recent memory so i had dan go dig and there's not there's no perfect cop for this kind of trade that he was able to find and we'll do some digging next week and i'll come back if there's something else but 2018 was intriguing because that's when eric de coston azie newsome in azzie's last draft in charge sent sent um pick 52 up to 32 so it was a huge jump it was 20 spots

yeah okay that was a huge jump but it was pick 32 and you look at that trade chart man it's 3,000. And again, I'll blow up the trade chart in a minute. I'm just, we use that as a reference. But when you're trading up, high into the top 10 and also trading up for a quarterback and the team always knows when you're trading up for a quarterback, right? Right. You're a hostage. Right. It's like when you're booking a wedding at a hotel. If it's a wedding, you know you're paying more. Yeah. Or Saturday in Tuscaloosa. A $97 room is $436, right? Right. So Raven sent their 52nd pick up to get to 32, but also gave a fourth round pick, pick 125 that year, and a in the second round pick, I think, in the next year to go up and get Lamar.

That's not as bad as I thought it might be. No, because they're moving up to pick 32. I know, I get. I get it. When you look at this chart, and I don't want to pull it up and lose all this right now, but if you look at the chart, $3,000, I think, is the first one. He's a face ID. 3,000, here it is.

I had to pull up for. 3,000 is for pick one based off of this chart. And I'm telling you it's going to cost a lot more because they know you're trading up for a quarterback. Right, right. You're in the top 10. 3,000 points for number one. The eighth pick is 1,400 points. At 32, it's down to 590 points.

Right. Yeah. Big difference. Now, let's give you another example. Also, Dan, I want to credit. He looked this up, Tim Tebow in 2010, okay? Another big leap up from 40, to 25, okay?

And that was pick 70. They gave up in addition. They gave obviously 43. They swapped. And then pick 70, which is a third round pick. And their fourth round pick at 114 overall to move up to 25. You're like, oh, that's not too bad. We can make that move.

But they're not moving up into the into. It's not 25. Yeah. Pick 25 is 720 points. Okay. Right. That pick for Carolina is 1400. It's twice as much.

Right. Okay. So let's do something recently. We've talked about the cake and eat it too. Nick Casario, he wanted the quarterback and he wanted his edge rusher. And he, damn it, he got it. Yeah. So that was with the Cardinals back in 2023, just two years ago.

Got C.J. Stroud and Will Anderson. Drafted C.J. Stroud at two. Then remember, they had that 12th pick, okay? Right. Yep, they had two first round picks that year. So the 12th pick, they moved up. Okay. And so Arizona received for that 12th pick. You ready for this? Here we go. The 33rd overall pick, which was Houston's, first pick in the second round, then first round pick in 2024 and third round pick in 2024.

So if you're the Cardinals, okay, I'm moving back from 3 to 12. So now I pick it 12, 33, and I get a next year's first and next year's third i looked at the chart so if we're going to go by the chart for a minute 1760 1,760 points to move up nine spots to three obviously that's a lot higher pick three is worth 2,200 okay yeah but pick eight is worth 1400 but doing that math 1760 and then applying it to 26 spots because that's what the move would be from 34 to 8 would be 26 spots if you do I did the percentage and it's it was like 500 50 it's over 5,000 points it's 5,000 plus points to move up 26 spots which like we're talking like three ones and in a couple three like it's absurd you can't do that But let's just say, let's meet in the middle and say it's 2,500 points, something like that.

So in order to do this, the Giants would have to give away pick 33. Okay. They'd probably have to give like a fifth or fourth or fifth this year. Yep. Then they'd have to give a first next year, which would be if you're saying 16, maybe they're drafted 16, right in the middle is 1,000 points. Then a third next year, which would be like 2 to 300 points. and then another first in 2027.

Or even if it's, even if it's picked 33, a fourth round pick this year, a first next year and a second next year. Yeah, that sounds more, closer to what I was thinking. No way you're giving up three first round picks. I mean, two future first round picks.

Would you do it? Well, here's my point. It's an obscene amount. Because it wouldn't just be a first and a third next year. It would be a first and a third next year and have to maybe, maybe you get away with only a second in 2027. Now, now, and but that only gets you to like 2,500, not even 1,000, 2,000, like it gets you like 26, 2,700 points.

I just said to you, it could be, they could fleece you for, they could ask for 5,000 points essentially somewhere they can ask for whatever they want. So what I'm saying is if you're going to give up a third or a fourth this year and a first next year and a second or third next year and then maybe an additional day two pick the following year, why in God's green earth wouldn't you just take the guy at three? Yeah. Right? You like him that much because you have to like him that much. I mean, the amount you're investing in that player. It's not like you're just getting that player at eight now.

And like, oh, we got them at, you know, people will look back on that draft maybe and be like, oh, they got them at eight. That's pretty good. And that's like, there's no context there of what they had to give up to get them. I mean, that's, sorry, that's way too much for that caliber. The only thing I'll say is Joe Shane knows that his job's not going to last very long if they, if they don't have ownership on board and the fan base is happy enough to keep ownership on board.

And nothing would make the fan base happier than winning more games next year and having Shador and Travis Hunter and the mayor of family would absolutely love that scenario. So sometimes rational football decisions get thrown out the window when the people that signed the check and make the decisions and own the business. Right. Say let's do it. So like, I don't know. You're talking about a possibility there.

But what would you do? You wouldn't do that, would you? You wouldn't make that move. Would you? Well, I'd draft him at three. Yeah. I'd draft him at three. I'm saying, but you wouldn't draft them at three either.

I wouldn't draft them at three and I wouldn't give away next year's one. I'd wait until next year and roll the dice on maybe Garrett Nussmeyer's, my guy. And I'm not playing that game because I don't know because you never know. People say next year's class is going to suck and all of a sudden we have six quarterbacks taking the first in the first 12 picks last year. That's just class wasn't supposed to be that good. Michael Pennix was going to be a fourth, fifth rounder. Bo Nex was a second third rounder.

No way. Jayne Daniels was a fourth, fifth rounder. Like, come on. You don't know. And you're also right that it could happen. It's not laughable that someone would make this deal. I've just heard a lot of noise about that. They're teaming up and all that.

I just want people to understand what it would actually cost. All right. A couple more things I want to touch on. And I mentioned it earlier. This one's, I'm asking you. I'm going to bullet point these things right now. Cleveland Browns. You know their roster.

We've talked about it up and down. You know who their offensive, their head coaches. You know who their offensive coordinator is and Tommy Reese. You know that's the fancies calling plays. You know what their defense is. And we now know that Miles Garrett's there for a long time for a lot of money. Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are staring you in the face. Because I have started to hear a little bit buzz that Travis might actually be their pick there.

I'm not asking that because I don't believe anything that's coming out of anyone's miles these days. What I'm asking you is, is it Abdul or Travis? If I'm picking or what they're going to do? You. Abdul. No question. I just think he's not.

I think Abdul is on another level even than Travis Hunter. And then you have him and Miles Garrett together. Good luck. I mean, just good luck. That pass rush is going to be, I mean, it's just going to be a beast for any offensive line. You have to, I'm trying to game plan for both of those guys in terms of what you're going to do with protections. What are you going to do? run seven man protections and they can still get there with four guys. I don't even, I just,

I don't know what you do with that defensive line. And maybe I'm overrating Abdul Carter. He's not in the league yet. Maybe I shouldn't be putting the gold jacket over the shoulders, but I'm just telling you, man, I wouldn't want to block those two. Watch out. And I just think, I just think guys up front, and I've been saying this all along, you know, I don't lose my narrative here. Guys up front make a bigger difference than the guys on the perimeter. And Travis Hunter is awesome, awesome. But guys up front make. a bigger difference the guys in the perimeter. Yeah, I agree.

I won't be kicking and screaming. I won't be like, what a colossal mistake. And I, in fact, I'll be like, I'll just be excited to like to think about the possibilities of Travis Hunter playing with Miles Garrett rushing the quarterback and the opportunities he'll have to get his hands on the ball on the defensive side. And then I'll be thinking about, all right, how's DeFansky going to work him in on offense? And what's it going to look like? Like, it's not, it won't be a bad decision either way.

But one feels right to me, and that is we are going to suffocate you to death. And all our offense has got to do on an average Sunday is score 17, 20 points. Right. And we're going to win a lot of football games. Yeah. I mean, you got, you got Joe Burrow twice a year and you got Lamar Jackson twice a year. You better be able to get after the quarterback, man. I mean, that's what you're looking at in their division.

So. And then you try to, and then you see what's available in the sec. You don't even wait till the second. You see if Jack, maybe Shador falls to nine and then maybe Jackson Dart gets in the 20s. Yeah. Because I don't see any teams from 11 to 19 that need a quarterback that is jumping off the page. I mean, San Francisco, no, Dallas, no. Miami, I mean, Miami could be like, but I just don't.

see that i can see miami taking one in the second round third round indianapolis no not yet Atlanta no Arizona no Cincinnati hail no Seattle no Tampa bay no so like Denver no you get to 21 again before there's a team they could be awesome if aaron rogers could figure that out so we can figure out what they might do yeah he's going to be a stealer he'll be a stealer When we get closer, he's going to announce it at Pat McAfee's thing and to get a huge roaring thing because that's what his ego needs because he's Aaron Rogers. Or he'll wait till the draft because everyone thinks now that it could be there, night out or whatever it is.

Yeah, the draft in Green Bay. He makes the announcement. That'd be great. I mean, would anything be more like Aaron Rogers than waiting, right? All right. next one for you. So now we're saying Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter and no given order are going two and three. Now my Patriots, buddy, grew up in Andova, grew up in Andover, Massachusetts.

Yeah, this was tough, man. Massachusetts. I'm starting to hear more and more buzz and I'm not shying away from it with Will Campbell there. Oh, man. Can't do it. Let me give you a little background while you digest it and while you breathe and you think about what you really want to say. Yep. Okay. Up in New Hampshire.

He has 33 inched arms now. Here we go. By the way, I believe that number more than I believe the combine number. I do. I just wanted to say this. I wouldn't normally say that, but I will this year. And it sounds silly that we're talking about less than half of an inch. what was it, 32 and 5 eighths of an inch, right?

And now we're saying 33 inches. And believe it or not, like statistics say 33 to 34 is not ideal, but there's a lot of examples. And we told you already, there's only three starters in the NFL. None of them are stars that are sub 33 inches and two of them are in the right side. Only ones that left. Okay. But 26 offensive tackles from this year's Combine have had pro days so far.

that have had longer, longer arm lengths. So I don't know who pissed in someone's suit. What happened, man? Or if there was something wrong with the measurements, but like it's not like six or seven. It's 26 offensive tackles so far from pro days have had longer arm lengths there. Then they, and you can't tell me that 26 different scouts,

or maybe it's 18 different scouts of 26 pro days, have all been off or generous. It's just not how it works. Senior Bowl, too. Something was wrong. Yes. So anyway, so that's that. I look at Will Campbell and I see what you see on tape and I don't want to get into a big long thing on Will Campbell because we do have our position group deep dive coming up next week of offensive linemen.

Okay. It was an anticipated show for the Minch family of the entire year. But I do see this because every report you hear like Tyler Booker and Will Campbell, there's one or two. other guys, but like two of the best and two of the best in years in terms of interviews, passion for the game, understanding the game, commitment to it. Everything out of LSU is just like, yeah, we love all our guys, but like, no, this guy. And then you think about Brable and what he's trying to build. And you think about the protection of your quarterback, okay?

And you got Membo who's definitely a right tackle, in my opinion, and could, I think, I believe, physically more gifted. But it's not like he has 35 inch arms. He's got 33 and a half. And his pro day and combine. That I don't know. I think, never mind. I almost made a joke that I've been catty, but I won't make it.

So he's clean, he's safe. They don't have anyone in that O line room, man. Who's their dude in there? No. I mean, there's Morgan Moses on the right. Is that right tackle for them? Yeah. For a minute, he's going to be there?

Yeah, no. they didn't know. No, I mean, that is. If you're trying to build a culture and you need this group up front, if you want to be a physical football team with a quarterback who's going to work off the run game and the young franchise quarterback, man. And so now you're bringing. Without question, their number one need.

It's without question of the number one need on the field. And also, I get like from a core. Oh, I get what you know what I mean. Yeah, you know that. You need a dude. So I look at, okay, who's going to be available where they pick there? It's Mambu at tackle, but who are the other blue chippers? It's Mason Graham at defensive tackle.

We just had a lot of money on Milton Williams. Ashton Jinty, who like for a minute there, and like it wouldn't be the most surprising thing ever. But I don't think they're in the luxury pick of a running back type of roster building situation right yet. Tyler Warren, like, I don't know. It makes more and more sense to me. I think Jalen Walker would be a star, but like you just spent all that money on the defensive side and you got this rookie quarterback that needs two things.

Keep his ass off the ground and get him some weapons. So I hear you. I mean, you're talking me into it. I mean, everything you're saying makes sense and reading the tea leaves. I just, I've said this for a while. And I'm going to continue to say it. I like Will Campbell. He is, I seem to be the one of few who doesn't think his tape is quite as good as everyone

else thinks it is. And it's in the arm length, you know, 33 inches are, that's still not that long, man. It's, it's longer and it's whatever. I like his feet, but there's, there are just some bad snaps on tape. And I think that the analytics people, you know, this is the one of the players I have a beef with on some of the analytics with this player. I think that there are more pressures than. then maybe they're getting up.

But again, he's up there. I just, I don't think there's, like, I wish there was another tackle. Like, it's not like I can say there's another tackle that's clearly better than Will Campbell. I like Armand Membue, but like you, he's a right tackle. They don't need a right tackle. And I'm not sure he's a top four guy. In this scenario, the Patriots fans who thought they were getting Abdul Carter or Travis on a month ago, this is not great.

This is not great. Because there's no good answers here. There's no, you know, Will Campbell could. But admittedly, Will Campbell could turn out to be the guy that they want him to be. I could freely admit that. I just feel a little uncomfortable taking him that early. What's interesting, though, is I think a couple months ago, everyone, not vast majority in New England was like, let Chador fall to us at four. This is where we can trade out.

Right. And that's not. Well, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. It's just not what the market looks like right now. Maybe because it's just not how the market looks right now. Right.

Right. But I'm telling you like a couple months ago or even at the Combine, if you had told our buddy Bill Simmons. Yeah. If you had told my like Cal, O'Neill, Nolan, Trager, who's painting on the vineyard, Trigger to Petro, check out his art if you're into art. An absolute gem on Martha's Vineyard.

All my buddies who are asking me, right? Oh, if Shador's there. Yep. Is there a trade for us? We're going to trade out. We need so many things, right? Yeah. I don't know that that's going to be the deal anymore, though.

All right. Last thing. I want to revisit the top 150 quickly, and then we'll get in the position group of the linebackers. One name that I, let's just put it this way. Jalen Walker ain't lasting long. Okay. That was the name, the familiar name?

No, the familiar name back in the top five is Will Campbell. Oh, okay. All right. Will Campbell after the combine in 302 and five, eight inches. It was like, well, memos up there and it's just not a tackle words right. No way. Now we could be talking about, I want you to think about your mindset on Tuesday after the combine. Yep, I got you.

Monday, Tuesday after the workouts on Sunday. So Monday after the combine, if I told you, Will Campbell's still going for. no way right and i would have said the same but things winds are shifting right now i love this time of year man like i i it's wild i've got some cornerbacks i've got a couple safeties i've got a handful of offensive linemen to finish up and my book is complete my and i'm starting to see the light i'm starting to have fun again i'm pretty sure the light to train for myself jaylin Walker. I love you.

Jalen Walker. Let's just highly thought of the calls. I actually had one, I was just going to say, I had one person say, what, what's the bleepin difference between him and Abdul? A couple inches. Really?

I'm not, I'm not saying that's a consensus. I'm just saying, I think. No, I know what you're saying, yeah. And I talked to one person I trust implicitly on Georgia players a long time ago. and he shared just raving about it. I told you.

It's, listen, Mikel loves the game. Mikel is, yes, sir, he's going to show, he's going to do everything, like loves, like all the good things, not the vocal leader. This guy is the alpha. We've talked about it multiple times. And then I've talked to other people in the league, and it's like, yeah, this cat. Like, I don't just get the tape. I get him in my building.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Same point you're making. with Campbell and New England, yeah. Bingo. So it got me thinking, why not Jacksonville 5? I mean, there's no reason that that doesn't happen. It's just the Mason Graham in terms of value. This time of year, I'm always trying to think, all right, everyone's mocking Mason Graham, and they need, and it's the best match of talent where he belongs and what they need. But at the end of the day, he's a short-armed defensive tackle, and I just raved about him. I'm just saying,

Don't start it on my guy. One guy's missing a measurable and the other guy's missing a measurable, and I get it. But we both think they're freaking phenomenal players. I don't hate that. Yeah, I'm just saying like Trayvon Walker. Now you kick Trayvon Walker inside in passing downs, and he's never going to be that. We just, he is what he's a damn good football player. He's never going to be a number one overall pick in terms of pass rushing production.

Don't hate it. There's no reason to say no to that pick. I think Mason Graham is a better fit for what they need and a good value at that spot. So that's why it makes more sense to me. But you can't be angry at a player that you have two slots down maybe. And is a guy is going to get after the quarterback for you? You can't get mad about that pick. They should be happy with either one of those cats coming to the building.

I think the absolute floor for Jalen Walker is eight, assuming that Carolina doesn't get some wild deal to move out. Right. like we just outlined, which would be absolutely insane, but ownership is ownership. You never know. Yeah, so Jalen Walker, I think it starts, I think the clock starts ticking a tiny little, now it starts taking at five.

I think the most, I think the floor is, the absolute floor is the Saints at nine, but I think it really is Carolina at eight. All right. We touched on the top 150. I don't want to, I mean, we're 55. You know what? If you want to read my top 150, go subscribe to the newsletter.

It's the McShay report. And we've been grinding on this. I've been grinding on the rankings, the film evaluations. Mention has been doing his film evaluation and his rankings. You see him on get up this morning and scout saying, wonderful. I would love, I'll pass out. I'll pass out one day.

I will pass out, maybe keel over. if I were to see Scouts Inc. Mench on a graphic there. But you do a beautiful, wonderful job. We've been grinding away on our things. You have your rankings versus my rankings. It's become the foundation of the show. But in this McShay report, you're going to get my rankings. You're going to get my mock drafts.

We get two more coming up. And by the way, we've got the way too early mock draft right after. Then we've got all the draft buzz coming up. and it starts really heating up. I'm telling you that weekend before the draft is when I have the most conversations and get the most intel, all of those things. So we've walked you through the top 30. Go get the other 120 players.

I can go through and tell you there's a big run on offensive. I'm in 25 to 39, and there's five wide receivers from 28 to 47. Who cares? Go read it. I mean, you should care. You just care. No, no, I care. I'm saying, like, go read it.

Go read it. It's worth it. A lot of efforts gone into it. And it's going to be, it's going to be pretty close to what you need to know. Position group deep dive, linebackers. Let's get it. I always find it. Yeah, I always find it fascinating to look at the three-year tallies.

I told you the Bill Belichick story. And I've lived by it ever since. I was back in 2001. Study the three years. It'll give you a sense of where guys are going to come off the board. So the linebackers, we've done this for every position. I didn't even, it's one on average, the last three. three years. We're talking off the ball linebackers.

Right. We covered the edges. Those are defensive ends in a four, base four three and three, four outside linebacker types is what we would call them. But today, in this day and age, wisely, we've all come to the consensus. Their edges and their interiors, period. Okay. These are off the ball linebackers. You're Mike, your Will, you're Sam, but they're like today's day and age, it's really a Mike and a Will and they're just off the ball linebackers. And we know what the traits are.

We're looking for longer guys. looking for faster guys. We're looking for guys who are great tacklers in space. We're really looking for guys who can cover. And occasionally we can turn them loose splits. One in the first round. You're the Fred Warner's of the world. That would be the prototype, right?

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yeah. 1.3 in the second round in the last three years on average. Then interesting here, six point seven. So seven guys on average the last three years on the third round. linebacker is a third round spot. That's where you get a lot of starting linebackers.

You get a lot of guys who come in and you don't have to waste a pre. It's all about premium picks on premium positions and off the ball linebacker, unless it's an absolute star. What are your premium positions? People have asked on Twitter. Do you want to go through it real quick? Well, obviously quarterback. Then edge rusher would be number two.

Okay. Right. Cornerback number three. But it's bloated. between cornerback, left tackle. And what's interesting is there's two things that have changed for me over the years. An interior rusher who can, an IDL that can actually rush the quarterback. Aaron Donald changed the game in.

Sky rockets. It's as valuable to me as an edge rusher. If that guy can actually rush a rush. That's how you neutralize a Tom Brady and a goat. And wide receiver used to not be. wide receivers up there, man. In this day and age and this league, the past the game. Put it where you have it in the order.

I would put that towards the back, but it is. Left tackles a lot higher. Down near the bottom is off the ball linebacker. Linebackers, running backs, tight ends. That's all kind of in that group, yeah. Unless they're weapons, right? Right. All right.

So it's interesting to me. So it's, yeah, you'll get about one in the first round, get about one in the second round, and then you're going to get like seven in the third round. And then the fourth round, you're going to get, it's an average of two, essentially. And then the fifth and sixth round, it's a lot. Teams are like, yeah, we'll wait until the third, load up. Then the fourth, we get some other business to take care of. And then in the fifth and six, we're going to get all our linebackers.

Third, fifth, and six. So this year's class, I've got my linebackers here. Jihad Campbell, I want you to start. He's the number one linebacker. He's that one. The average of the last three years, he's our one this year. What do you got on him, bud? Shoulder injury is a concern.

We should get that out of the way in the beginning, right? Okay. I've got to six to eight-month recovery. I think teams are going to be, you know, that's what I've read. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I want to be clear about that, but he is coming off a shoulder injury. Teams are going to have to make their own determinations about that. He tied for the fourth fastest 40 to combine.

That speech shows up on tape. He is a sideline to sideline dude, both in terms of, I mean, not only that, the speed, but the instincts, the way he reacts so quickly and the motor and the way he chases. I think he's very competitive in coverage. I think that he is in above-average pass rusher. He's a guy that can get after the quarterback. He doesn't have great size at 235 pounds. He doesn't have great length of 32-inch arms, but he bends well.

He's quick. He closes well. And again, that motor shows up in the pass rush. Yeah, the motor. Yeah. He only knows one speed. that about him um he plays a bit high he does he plays a bit high absorbs a little bit as a tackler doesn't win the leverage game a little bit you know my first studied him i was like yeah he's got

a little bit of tightness in like that short area occasionally will fall off a tackle right but the long arms the lasso guys rips good dudes to the ground doesn't give his body to blockers, even though he plays high and kind of like a little bit, he's just quick with his hands, doesn't give his, he's one of those slippery guys, closes in a flipping flash.

Doesn't he? 452 and it shows up on tape, man. 452 at 235 pounds and it shows up on tape, man. Also, that lower body explosion. Second best broad jump of the linebacker's 10, seven i don't know he's just different and i and cover those things are great but they show up on tape is what matters you know what he mean yes yes and in coverage i did he's really good with his eyes like it's depth in his drop eyes reached like that first interception against uh georgia first

interception of the season against georgia that was eyes and drop depth like you know the the interception was handed to him it wasn't like this over the head pluck or something crazy was handed him because his eyes read it. He got there in the quarterback. Carson Beck did not see him because he didn't expect him to be there because it was a play action. And just about every college linebacker would have bit on that thing.

And that opens up a hole right there in coverage that you can throw that curl. Not what you. Jihad. Yeah, he's going to come off the board early. As he should. But if he doesn't come off in the top, 15, it's because he's an off the ball lineback.

Right. And here's the thing on him. And I want to ask you this question. I've heard this a lot where people are now, you know, you get like Zach Bonn, the transition he made, obviously with the Eagles from off the ball lineback or to Russian or vice versa. Vice versa, yeah. Vice versa. You've got obviously the Micah Parsons of the world.

You've got this year with Jalen Walker and Abdul Carter. and you've got, we've had a lot of guys kind of move around in the front seven. I think he can do some edge rushing. I've seen some edge rushing on tape. I'm not ready to be like, yeah, he's. He's not Chandler Walker. Right. He's not Chandler Walker.

So I don't want to mislead people when we, because I feel like there's some misleading going on. Well, I get an off the ball linebacker and I get seven, seven, eight sack a year guy for off the edge. I don't know that he's that. I could be wrong. It's a nice element to his game. It's a nice element of his game, and I think he can help you in that area, but he's probably

to make more plays and coverage than he does rushing the passer. Yes. Can I ask you a question? Yes, sir. Strictly as off-the-ball linebackers. Jalen Walker or Jihad Campbell? Ew.

I'll go with what I would. I would go. I think that Campbell has the better instincts. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Campbell. Campbell. I think Walker is a, I think Walker is a better edge rusher than he is off the ball linebacker. I think he's good.

Yeah, no, to be clear again, Walker's good off the ball, man. I mean, the way he takes on blockers, the way he, he's 243 pounds playing off the ball linebacker and moving the way he does. He's a great off the ball linebacker. I think Campbell has the edge and instincts as a guy, you know, Walker is C-ball get-ball, and Campbell's more, a little more nuanced when he's off the ball. then it's going to be middle of the second round the second guy come off the board great story carson swessinger i should have water in my mouth swessinger six two and a half 242 pounds

solid arm length right here's what i love about and it makes it hard that i don't have the same grade maybe necessarily i don't have a bad grade on them i don't i feel like Oh, let me start with this. Swessinger, 38 games and four seasons at UCLA. All 10 of his starts came in 2024. He's a walk-on. Yeah. Minimal role.

Right. I'm a former walk-on and I sucked and I know that life and that life, that life ain't fun. You'd tear the blocking. That walk-on life sucks. Preferred walk-on means we prefer you getting your brains beaten in every day. By all-American defensive tackles. We don't care a lick about you as a human being, right? Thank you, Mark, Magnus, Sean Barber.

So walk-on first three years, barely does much, you know, and all of a sudden he comes out this year, 132 tackles, 8.5 for loss, four sacks, three-pass breakups, two interceptions, a force FOMO is a finalist for the Butkus Award. How freaking awesome is that stuff? Led the country with 90 solo tackles. Yeah.

Have a year, man. Incredibly fast eyes. Fastest eyes of any linebacker in this class, and you might have to go back a couple years. Like, this dude reads it so well, and it's shocking to me because, I mean, I guess he picked it up on scout team or was born with it. Right.

Where does this kid been? Why were you hiding them? He hasn't played a lot of ball, all right? Ten collegiate starts, and he's reading this thing like, like a quarterback like watching tape it's a here's that here's the thing i want to make this point so a lot of linebacks i'm sorry to cut you up a lot of linebackers here's your there's two parts excuse me as i get worked up there's two parts of the reeds right and bruskey teddy bruskey

we sat down you sat with me and then he walked us through the taking the flash and all that stuff before engaging with it with a with a with a blocker and taking a polaroid as you call it the kids would say, you know, an iPhone, like quick snap. His isn't even about that. His is about the first read a lot of guys can do. You're picking up the guard. You've got a key that you read and that will kind of give you a little tip to where the first step should be.

But you better quickly get your eyes to the ball. The second read, the second key is ball location. That, and I studied a lot. I was trying to figure out, why is this guy so damn good? He gets his eyes from that first. okay, to the ball location faster than most guys we have evaluated. Okay. Now, here's the problem.

And he's really, really, let me stick with the positive. Carries the slot wide receiver, awesome cover two. Like his range is unbelievable. He's really good in coverage, really, really good. And that's a huge part of playing off the ball lineback. go ahead and say what you want to say and I'll finish it's a range amplifier when you have eyes like that it just he didn't run his 40 he moves pretty well on tape he didn't run his 40 at his pro day I don't think either although he's short shuttle on three cone times we're outstanding at his

pro yes and I runs well on tape but that those kind of instincts and that quick reaction time is a range amplifier because if you if someone is faster than you but they start 0.5 second after you you're already ahead of them and I think that's what's really great about his game is that he's that much faster and quicker because of how quickly he reads it. Also, he's a bioengineering major, according to Dan. So, genius. Thanks, Dan. Can't take on a block to save his life. It's not that bad. I like to do that. I like to do that to you. There's a lot of guys, by the way, there's a lot of undersized guys in this class that are fast that, you know, that's kind of the flaw there.

It's the trend. No one can take on. Very few can take on blocks anymore. The stack and shed guy is gone. He gets washed. Right. It's a different world today. Kids these days, right?

Brandon Spikes is like, what happened, man? Yeah. Bruske would throw up. I just don't think he's that great versus the run. I just don't. He's not. Oh, okay. I think in the NFL he's going to,

I just, I worry. I worry. I said it. That's fine. I'm saying he's not that great against the run, I think is a little bit of an exaggeration. It's a little overdoing it. I just worry in the NFL. That's fine.

I got you. And he does a lot of great things. And I love his story. I just, here's the thing. Here's what bothered me. There's a lot of yacht butts in this class like we talked about with other classes. But go ahead. I put on the tape because, again, started.

10 games this past year. I hadn't done him early in the process. I put on the tape and it feels like one guy got his story and was like, I got him in the top 50. And then the next guy had to put him at 45 and the next guy had to put him at 40. And now he's sniffing the first round. And I'm like, what? I'm like, got. All right. Now, I'm going to put down what I'm doing because I'm still trying to evaluate quarterbacks. And I've got like second, third round, fourth round guys in different spots and I've got defensive league, 75 defensive linemen this year, the 50 running backs it feels like. And so I put down what I was doing. I was actually up in New Hampshire, God's country. Nice. Kids all running around doing their stuff and I was like, I've got to get to this.

So I put it on and I was like, oh, I love a lot of things. But he's not one of the 40 best players, I don't think, in this draft. So I got a little like edgy and then I'd remind myself of his story and he's a wonderful human being and all that so it's not but i i think you have to put like there's got to be a bar for expectations he's a he's a damn good player he's un like best instincts in the class really good in coverage i don't think he's going to be step on the field and be the star but i could be wrong i could be wrong demetrius knight south carolina this is this is my guy Team captain, three-time All-ACC academic honor roll at Georgia Tech, six-year linebacker in college.

Final season at South Carolina after four years at Georgia Tech and started out at Charlotte, okay? Mm-hmm. No, sorry, Georgia Tech, then Charlotte. One year he spent, that's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. One year in 2023, one year in 2023, first team, all conference, all world for the 49ers there. Then comes to South Carolina.

Shane's like, come on in, bud. We need a difference maker. Beamer got it. 13 games, all 13. First team all, I don't even know about that. I was going off the last. Second on the team, 82 tackles, eight for loss, two sacks, forced three fumbles, intercepted a pass.

He's not that. Team captain one year at South Carolina, about 10 minutes. You walk in the building. You walk in the building. Like, hey, I'm the boss now. Right. I'm the boss. he is the best versus the run in this class just straight up versus the run violent pursues like a like a madman

remarkable balance gets off blocks savvy strong hands controls like seamless with his hands shed like effortlessly right and then the closing versus like yeah another dude that can run another dude that can run right a four five eight at two hundred and thirty five five five pounds long arms dude yeah six one and a half but 32 and five eighths inch arms big hands you see it big strong hands here's the thing he's a four three off the ball inside linebacker great versus the run i think he's a former running back like you see his hips aren't horrible i i he's not bad in coverage he's not it's not jihad it's not swesinger Swessinger.

But man, he's a leader, his temperament, loves ball, whatever it takes, cover kicks, special teams right away, violent, instinctive tone setting, range, day one starter. I don't know. I just like this guy a lot. Yeah, I thought the, I listen, he's good against the run. He's really good against the run. I thought the Missouri tape had a little bit more concerns about him getting off some blocks in that game.

but you know you're allowed to have bad games every once in a while i will say what about bohobabia o'griki i don't hate it third round pick for the colts 525 tackles the last four years colts and giants he was also 6-1 also 239 also guess what his 40 time was big boy 4-58 right 458 on the number coming out of stanford i loved him coming out of stanford also one of the things that listen the knight does that i love but also gets him in trouble is the way he attacks the football as a tackler. I mean, he had, I think it had three force fumbles. He had three force fumbles. He hunts that football, man. When he's in a trail positioned, he is coming to punch that ball out. And he has a lot of success with it. And every once in a while,

he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, trying to knock that ball out and misses the tackle. But I like the way he attacks it. I saw that too. I just think like, you got a Bobby Okeriki in the third round. Listen, where do you want it? All right. So I told you, so we got our first round guy in jihad.

Right. We've got our second round guy in Swessinger. We got the start of the run, presumably in the third round, although I don't think this class, I think it could be like later third and in the fourth where this run happens. But that's just my opinion.

There's a lot of traffic there, man, right? There's a little congestion in terms of who could come off. There's a little bit of a, that bucket is a little bigger than the norm like that. I agree. I'm going to read you a bunch of names

and I want you. Okay. One or two of them, take it where you want. Two, one or two guys that like, entreat, if it's something about them,

who you think you have higher, whatever it is. Yep. All right. Small Mundin. Okay. Georgia. Tie for the,

tied for the quickest 10 yards split at the, for the linebackers of the combat. No, no, I don't need to, I'm going to list them all off. and you take i know i'm done i already got one for you though okay dandy stutzman okay go oklahoma chris paul junior o'm miss cody simon ohio state barrett carter clemson chamard james florida jeffrey bassa basa oregon eugene asante auber what jumps out of you all right i'm going to start with mundin he had tied for the quickest 10-yard split

at the combine for the linebackers, and you see it on tape. 152. Right, beats blockers to the point of attack. I like that. I also think that he's really competitive in coverage. I think he's a guy that can match up with, he run with tight ends. He closes on the ball well. He's also got some good instincts as a pass rusher.

What I mean by that is he has a good feel for where to attack and how to attack. Hugs blockers coming around the corner so it's harder for the back to locate him. He could be disruptive. He's not going to be a high sack guy. But when you blitz him, he can be disruptive and move guys off the spot. Chris Paul, by the way, this guy, it's hard not to love Chris Paul. He's got 29 and 7th inch arms, small arms. He only weighs 222 pounds.

But he plays angry. Oh, my gosh. If you show up, if Chris Paul is, if you're in office alignment and Chris Paul's, like, you know who reminds reminds me of a little bit? Who's that? Our old teammate. Paris Lenin. Paris Lenin. Yes.

I saw that too, man. Paris Lenin. Paris Lenin walked in as a freshman. Undersized, looks like a safety, developed into a, developed into a star player at Richmond. No one cares now, but I'm telling the story anyway because they had a Richmond home behind me, and I'm talking to a Richmond Spiker. And went on and played in the league for a long time.

Long time. He was a captain of Cardinals. Yes. Packers, Cardinals. I'll never forget he walked in. He didn't look that big, but I saw something in his eyes, and I remember taking like a sidestep

when he was walking like the towel on walking by me. And then he got there and he started someone, I think it was Big Frank when the defensive tackles that said something to him he didn't like. And I'm talking like second day in camp. Like this isn't like the end of camp where everyone's chippy and like someone looks at your, you know, your lunch the wrong way.

there's a fight in the cafeteria. I'm talking like second day of camp. We're just team building. Right. And he turned around since some words I'm not going to say right now, but essentially, like, I don't care if my mom's wearing the other team's jersey. And if you're wearing another jersey on that field, I'll, and that you were all, he said some stuff.

And we were all like, oh, okay. But Chris Paul plays that way. Yeah, he brings it to you, man. He's got some explosive power. He's small. If you catch him, if you get him, flat-footed or going east-west, he's in trouble. He's in trouble.

There's a trait that binds these two, and I think it's one of the reasons you really like them. They might be the best two tacklers in the class. Yeah. The guy with the shortest arms, man. And then he's in the stopping power, I was like, I had to look a couple times. I'm like, this guy is so small. It kind of reminds me of, in a strange way, Trayvion Henderson and Pass Pro.

How was Trayvion Henderson so damn good in Paso? When you have these like 230 pound backs, you can't figure it out. Yep. I mean, it's just, there was a couple of plays where he fills the gap and he stops a guy, I mean, right in his tracks. I mean, he is a big time hitter. Yeah. Small Mondin is going to have to stay healthy.

And we can say that for every single player. But the injury history is concerning. And that's, that's a knock. And that might, that might lead to fourth round. But I like him as a player. man. He had up and down in his career. He's got some stuff.

You missed four games in the past year. There's some things. Yeah. The late hit against Georgia Tech that he had kind of chill, bro. There's some stuff. But that dude can play and Chris Paul can play. The one, this is the guy, I'm dying to talk about this guy.

This is the one player that I think. I'm moving them up. And we loved them all year. And then I went back and watched more tape. And I love him. even more now, but Cody Simon from Ohio State is to me. He, the thing, this is the thing I love about him, man. He makes it so hard for offensive linemen to kind of square up to him.

And he does it by changing speeds, changing directions. It's just tough to get you, yes, active hands. As he's moving, offensive guard will be like, I took a good angle. I got this guy lined up, and then he changes the speeds real quick. Or he redirects and gets under the block but never gets into a bad position. and that's another thing that I love about him. He's almost always square to the ball carry. And for a guy that doesn't, he's not a stack and shed linebacker.

He is a slip and chase linebacker. It's a difficult thing to do to be square to the ball carrier all the time. Like a lot of other guys, there's a little bit of concern about the tackling. I think bigger, stronger ball carriers. Caleb Johnson gave him some problems, even when he's in a good position. He's got to be a little bit better finisher as a tackler. But, dude, seven sacks last year and not, oh, I'm going to clean up this sack or I got a, you know, there was times where he got a clear path

to the quarterback. Dude, he ran a four or five, nine at his pro day. He closes in a hurry rushing off the edge. And then when you watch him between the tackles, he's shaking guys. I mean, he's making, he's, you know, guys' knees are buckling on the offensive line when he's coming between the tackles. It's, it's impressive. Cody Simon, then you add the leadership, the production.

He had the most tackles. but for anyone in Ohio State in the playoffs, he had 12, he had 11 versus Tennessee, no 12 versus Tennessee, 11 versus Oregon, 7 versus Texas, 8 versus Notre Dame,

all over the field man, getting guys lined up on tape. Cody Simon is a player that, I mean, he might be my linebacker three when it's all sudden done. I just love the tape. Interesting. Yeah, I think he's going to fall to the fourth.

He could. Yeah. But I also, So I'm not betting against that guy. Yeah. You know? And I know I've got an awesome special teams player at the very minimum, at the very minimum. One last name I wanted to throw out there.

What happened to Barrett Carter, man? Man. We were talking about Barrett Carter coming off that 2022 season as like the Jihad Campbell, potentially the future. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then he regressed the last two years. He broke out in 2022.

and regressed the last year. Here's the thing. He's athletic. He moves well. He can blanket tight ends in coverage. Undercuts routes. It does some really good things in coverage. But surprisingly, especially for a three-year starter, Clemson, he literally regressed each year.

But the surprising, he's a surprisingly unreliable tackler. Yep. And that's going to get. like he's got to get bigger, he's got to get stronger, and he's got to figure out how to tackle more efficiently or else it's not going to last on the league. But if he does those things, he's got some talent.

It'll be interesting. There's, there, obviously Clemson Fire, their defense coordinator. They had a tough year defensively. There were times where on tape where I was like, there's blown coverages all over the place. And there was times where I thought, you know, it's tough to tell exactly what they're telling their players do and what they might be doing something unique,

all that stuff. But there was more than one occasion where I felt like, man, he's not where he's supposed to be. And that was, that surprised me. And then I also didn't, I've loved him in coverage in the past. I thought he had a bad year in coverage, a little overreacting to double moves,

got caught out of position a few times. It just, I'm talking athletically what he can do. Yeah, he can do it. I was, I'm, I'm not glad you're bringing it up, but it does reinforce what I saw under, underwhelming. Yeah. All right, man. It's a fun one. I'll tell you what, though. Go check out the top 150, please. Yeah. We do appreciate your support. I bust some stones every once in a while, but like we're here. We get three weeks. It's time. Yeah, don't keep wait. Don't wait. The more you

wait, you're just going to want to double down next week. Just do it now. But we do appreciate everyone being here. I appreciate Mench, always. And what do we got going? on what is today we're taping Wednesday night so we're back on Monday it feels too long we're gonna talk to program yeah I get some work to finish up D Bs is gonna be great though this is gonna be a long weekend but yeah and then I think next week's mock draft we'll keep you posted no one like that is I think it is mock draft yeah mock draft next week mock 3.0 it's funny and so this is the last one before the last one Mm-hmm.

Shador going to be in the top three? You'll... The winner shows there. The winds off the Rockies. All right. Control yourself. I know. All right.

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