The McShay Show - What I’m Hearing on Shedeur Sanders and Will Johnson. Plus, Offensive Line Tiers, Comps, and Tape Study.

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by reacting to Michigan CB Will Johnson’s predraft workout and what it could mean for his draft stock. Then, they discuss different top-10 scenarios, including how Shedeur Sanders to the Giants at 3 could shake up the draft. To close, the guys dive deep into their offensive line scouting reports. Sign up for The McShay Report to receive Todd’s mock and other draft content straight to your email inbox. (0:00) Welcome to The McShay Show! (1:45) Checkout the McShay Report! (5:27) The Latest Draft News + Prospect Buzz (43:37) Deep Dive: Offensive Lineman (54:07) Deep Dive: Armand Membou [OT 2] (1:01:25) Deep Dive: Kelvin Banks, Jr. [OT 3] (1:13:56) Deep Dive: Grey Zabel [OG 1] (1:22:23) Deep Dive: Tyler Booker [OG 2] (1:27:05) Deep Dive: Aireontae Ersery [OT 3] (1:34:51) Deep Dive: Josh Simmons [OT 4] (1:43:11) Frank Leonard Retires The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Mark Panik, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Social: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the McShay show presented by Fanduel. It's our time. It's officially NFL draft season, and you can get in on all the action with Fanduel. Fandul has lots of ways to bet on the draft, like pick position, team to draft a player, exact order, top five and 10 picks, and so much more. When you win, you get paid instantly. Fandual always has exclusive offers. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use, so download Fandual Sportsbook app. app today and make every moment more during the NFL draft.

The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-Help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available. And listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Huge show today. NFL draft boards are getting set this week.

General managers are starting to trade information like currency. So we'll share what we can share from some interesting conversations had this weekend. Plus, I'll tell you what the plus is, Meshay. It's time to finally do the deep dive in the most important position in all of football, the offensive line. I cannot wait to talk about these graceful bad news. It's only 10 days of the draft. McShay, you're good? I'm good.

Stop that beat, Tucker. All right, I'm clearly in for it today. I love it. I mean, Munch has been waiting patiently, stalking his prey, letting me rant and go an hour and a half, an hour and 50 minutes when I should only go 50 to an hour. But today's his day. But of course, before we get to all of that offensive line stuff that he's so anxiously awaited for,

I've got some stuff to share, okay? First of all, thank you for joining. Thanks for being a part of this. We couldn't be more thrilled about what's going on. We've got three shows this week, Mench. So stay tuned. Follow us on on Instagram on X. I'm at McShay 13 on X and T. McShay 13 on Instagram.

Munch, what are your, what are your handles? At you good, Munch. It's M-U-E-N-C-H. All right. So that's where you can find us. This week, we'll keep you posted with all the scheduling stuff. But I can't express to you the excitement we have on Sunday. A good friend, Mench and I jump on the bird all the way out.

to the West Coast. We're going to be out in L.A. They've opened up the studios there. I don't, is it Hollywood, Beverly Hills, whatever it is. The studios are too beautiful and wonderful for us, but we're going to depart from here, and we're going to absolutely take over those studios on all throughout the week. Then we've got a live show streaming for the first night of the draft, okay? An hour before, we're going to tell you all of the information, all the news, all the stuff going on. Of the mock draft come out the day before on Wednesday, We'll have a show that comes out first thing Thursday morning covering that mock draft. Then the night of the draft, day one of the draft, next Thursday, we will be there one hour

before to tell you all the information we're hearing. What's the latest scuttlebutt, if you will? And then the second night will be right back there in the studios, first round of that night, which will be round two of the draft. We'll be there for a good portion. Then we'll have a wrap-up show after Friday night. We'll talk about all 32 teams, what they've accomplished, what's still to accomplish on Saturday. Then Saturday, we'll be watching the NFL draft from Ryan Rissillo's house.

He called me the other day, Mentioned I'm getting nervous. He's trying to back out. It ain't happening, Ryan. It ain't happening. Okay. I'm going to get him to run a 40-yard dash somehow. Yeah, we'll see about that. I want to see the 40.

We're going to steal his food. We're going to drink his drinks. We're going to watch the third and final day of the draft. And then the seventh round, when everyone's talking about guards from Kennesaw State, and everywhere else, and it's the same voices you've had to hear for three straight days, come back with us. We're going to be there. We're excited to share it.

We're going to have a lot of fun, Mench, myself, Ricillo. We're going to break down all 32 teams. We're going to start the review show there. What's happened on Saturday? What's the biggest picks? Where are some of these quarterbacks like Will Howard and Riley Leonard and Dylan Gabriel go? Where are some of the running backs that are left over and all the other positions? But most importantly, we're going to start talking about the teams, what they've done to help themselves.

Okay. So that's the schedule. That's how it lines up. There's been a lot of stuff going on. And I say that and I open this whole thing by saying draft boards are getting set this week. Had a lot of conversations over the weekend. This past weekend is probably the second most conversations I have with people in the NFL next weekend before we fly out. It's going to be complicated on Sunday, man. Easter Sunday. It's going to be complicated because it's Easter and we're flying out to Los Angeles, but I'm still going to have a lot of texts and a lot of calls. Friday and Saturday, I've already got nine calls lined up.

Nine. We're going to have all the information as much as you can have, as much as teams are kind of peddling around right now. But some information came out. First thing that jumped out to me was just about everyone I talked to this weekend, Munch wanted to talk about, hey, Will Johnson's working out, Michigan cornerback, top 15 player on a lot of teams boards, had the lower body injuries he's dealt with throughout his career,

finally was able to work out. And he did so this morning on Monday morning, okay? I was told leading up he's going to do everything but the 40-yard dash. Here's the other little nugget I was told from multiple people in the league. He's been running 40s in training and working out, but was running in the high four-fives. One team said they had gotten reports low four-sixes. Is that important? I mean, it's not ideal.

And I was told by multiple teams, he's going to do everything but the 40-yard dash for obvious reasons. He doesn't want, if he's running a 4-5-8, we saw A. Z. Thomas, Florida State cornerback. I've talked to multiple teams that thought he was going to go late first. Then he ran a 4-5-8 at his pro day. Now, the difference is, Will Johnson is at his best when he's studying him on tape, eyes forward, playing the ball in front of him. Giving cushion, eyes forward, reading the, think about the pick sixes, the one against Marvin Harrison, Jr. The Fresno State won this year.

His best plays seem to be when he's backed off in cushion, he's an absolute sniper with his eyes on the quarterback, right? But when he turns and runs, and we went through all the plays when we did the deep dive in the cornerback position,

when he turns and runs back to the quarterback, lacking the recovery speed, gets a little bit loss, pass interferences, beat deep, those sorts of things. So then you start to look at the mock draft, right? You start to look at the teams that need corner.

You start to look at the teams that play zone heavily, right? Those are the teams where he fits. The workouts by all accounts, here's what I have for you. 37 inch vertical jump would have been tied for six at the combine. That's good. Lower body explosiveness. See it on tape matches up. 433 short shuttle.

Surprised you ran that. Only four cornerbacks at the combine this year ran a short shuttle. Wasn't required. Wasn't run to 40. Could have just done position drills, jumps. He did. Ran a 433. That's the 13th percentile of what cornerbacks have run, you know, over, over time.

Slower than the four corners that actually did run the short shuttle at the combine. Smooth in drills is the report I got, you know, showed he's a smooth mover. He's not like the most sudden and explosive and fast, but he's a smooth, good in his pedal, good in his turns. He didn't blow people away, was the report I, got, but looked apart for the type of cornerback that he is. San Francisco would be the first team where I think he'd even be in the conversation, picking at 11. They run his own scheme, kind of man zone.

Charvarius Ward just left. I gave him an NFL comp similar to Charvarius Ward somewhere in that neighborhood. I don't think, I think with the offensive line and defensive line needs, he's not going to go at 11 overall. after that though is where I think he'll kind of come and play somewhere in that 12 to let's say 17 19 range what are your thoughts anything yeah I just why did he test at all if he knew he had to have some sense that these numbers were to be where they were why not to say I'm not fully back from the injury yet I think players do this all the time you know you don't have to run he doesn't have to do those and my concern might be is and I don't know if you've gotten any sense of this did the medical have any kind of impact on these numbers is he's not all the way back is he trying to do something

something, you know, is he trying to improve his stock and do something that he really shouldn't be doing at this point? I'm not as concerned as you when I watch the tape about his speed. I don't think it's that big of an issue. But when I hear that number, I start to get more concerned about it. So I just don't know why you would put those numbers out there if you knew that that's the range they were going to be in. Yeah.

I mean, it is what it is. You know who is. Who's leaking that he's running four, five and four sixes? I mean, I don't know, but if NFL teams are getting it and guys that are going to be the room for the draft night and or like he's got a bad team if that's getting out man like these are not area scouts with an axi grind or something this is coming from the highest level no no yeah i i i trust it but for his team to let that number get out there is to me what's what's happening here it just doesn't add up for me had he had he come out and run i would have said well teams are getting the

wrong information but they they specifically told me i i was certain based off the information he wasn't running to 40 today and that's exactly what happened so yeah i'm not question your information. I just, it's, it's interesting that you got out there. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you.

Have a tighter inner circle. I agree. A lot of interesting conversations, man. I think that, oh my gosh, so much good stuff. And we could do a whole show on it. We'll save it. Nothing is earth-shattering except this. There is thought, and this is not coming from the giants themselves.

This is coming from other teams that have sorts. that are working the phones now. Apparently, everyone agrees. Cam Ward's going number one to Tennessee, Cleveland's staying at two, and they're picking Travis Hunter. Apparently, in the last several days, and it's not, no one's saying it's going to happen, but people are telling me don't close the book on Shador to the Giants at three. Here we go. The roller toaster of the Shador Sanders show.

I know. And this isn't going to be about Shador. It is, it's either Shador or it's Abdul Carter. And most people think it's going to be Abdul Carter. It's interesting, though, that I think there's like a landscape thing going on here. Shador, we said he's not going six to Vegas. He's not going seven to the Jets. He's not going nine to the Saints.

Okay. More information on Shador is I am told and trust your sources or, you know, figure it's lying season and it's lying season and it's making its rounds just because. But I tend to trust where I'm getting this information. Mike Tomlin really likes Shadur. If he's there at 21, Shadur could very well be at Pittsburgh Steeler. And if Aaron Rogers is there, I don't think one would have to do with the others. Two different elements to this.

Aaron Rogers is to win games now. Drafting Shador Sanders, if he's there at 21, would be to finally get the solution at the most important position for the long term, okay? Excuse me. So there's that. So it's either, this is what people are talking about. And they're asking me questions here. What are you hearing?

We're hearing this. There seems to be a common thought within league circles that it's either three to the giants, which a lot of people thought was a dead concept, but it's creeping back in. is what I'm told, or it's 21 to the Steelers. The in-between would be a team trading up ahead of Pittsburgh, obviously. And we discussed that a lot in the mock draft show that we recently did. And we appreciate all the support. The numbers are outstanding for that mock draft show.

I mean, almost doubled anything we've done before. Like, it's draft season, it's time. And the right information is coming, being funneled through this show and through the McShea report. which you can just Google, subscribe to. If you care at all about this stuff, like it's, I hate to say it's a must read, but if you have interest in this stuff, we're going to give you the information you need, and a lot of fun stuff too.

So I don't know, it's fascinating. You know, the other part that's fascinating to me is, do you know who had his fourth and final visit with the team? Kind of last minute, Abdul Carter with the New England Patriots. Here we are on, on 10 days out from the draft, April 14th, 2025, 10 days out from the draft, all of a sudden, Abdul Carter is, the agent doesn't let Abdul Carter travel to Foxborough, Massachusetts, if he thinks there's a chance. So the agents get in the same information that I'm getting, that NFL teams are getting,

that Shador could be in play at three. I mean, we don't make the plate. You don't make the flight unless you think you might have to, right? exactly yeah so that so that parts fast so if you're a patriots fan and you and you're like yeah i like will will campbell a lot offensive tackle and i'm told it's either abdul if he falls to four or it's will camp that's another bit of information again not all information is accurate but it's coming for pretty good sources that just wouldn't say i know i have a good feeling or sense or a good source on this um and it adds up right what they're saying adds up

Totally. It's what we've been saying for a while, more so on the Carter could get to four. Obviously, if Shador's the guy. And then Will Campbell, we've kind of zeroed in on the last couple weeks. Great. So that part's fascinating. Let's stick with. No, let's go down the line a little bit. Here's just, listen, you get off these calls. I've got like, look it. I've got like sheets of notes. Your head's spinning. I got it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And a good way, not a bad way.

And here's my mock draft that if you can see like, oh, I'm already, you know, X's and checks all over names. And my point is just trying to walk people through as much of the information as I can share. There's some stuff I absolutely cannot share. We'll do our best to give you enough information. So nothing surprises you when we come to the first night of the draft. I promise you that if you, if you follow this show and you, you're watching the three shows this week, all five days next week, and the hour leading up

to the draft, and then the live stream of the draft, you will at least get a sense of the why for everything, okay? I may not be able to divulge a couple details and things that are, I've sworn to secrecy that put it in the vault, but you'll have an understanding of what the mindset is, the thinking process that's going on in these draft rooms. So it's either Campbell or Carter at four, Carter if available is the pick. If not, it's Campbell. Then you get to five. Here's an interesting conversation I had with someone. And I know either Jalen Walker is my, I just, I would love to see that. Some momentum. You got Jalen Walker getting some buzz? I'm not saying it's momentum one way or the other, but I was told this. It's funny. It's interesting. You know, when you talk to people after you release a mock draft, they never read the mock draft. No, I didn't read a mock draft. then why are you cases then what well yeah i'm not i'm not saying that it's like must read and they're passing it around on warm printer paper but i'm saying it's interesting when i get someone who purposely reaches out and's like hey i saw what you did at five just something you might want to

throw in your back pocket uh james gladstone the new general manager of the jaguars i talked about jared verse which he did and it absolutely could be jalen walker his rams background sorry critical, you know, he was a trusted confidant with less need with the Rams, the general manager of the of the Rams, less need, and then Gladstone got the job because of his outstanding work that he did in that Rams personnel department. He's now the general manager of the Jaguars. The reminder I got was Mason Graham, defensive tackle. Obviously, defensive tackle is a huge need for Jacksonville. So it makes sense. And we had Graham there for a long time. 32-inch arms. That's the biggest knock on Graham. If you were to start, like, what's the number one limitation, weakness, knock, whatever it is, it would be 32-inch arms. It was kindly pointed out to me.

Braden Fiske, the impact that he had with that organization, 31-inch arms. The defensive tackle, former Richmond Spider, who went to Wake Forest for a year, Kobe Turner. great dividends paid on that draft pick 32 inch arms so two of their interior

defensive line with the Rams the Gladstone had a big part in drafting 32 and 31 inch arms Turner and Fiske respectively so put stick that in your back pocket yeah stick it right there in your back pocket no one has anything else

but Ginty at six but everyone's like if it's so obvious something tells me it's not going to be but right but everything lines up and everyone's like what else you're hearing uh jets comes down to membo and warren that's what we've said for a long time um i just the more i think about what war the impact they you know they packed they passed on brock bowers different regime from last year obviously um with a mobile quarterback there's been there's been some buzz about

I don't think the Jets are going to take a quarterback at seven. I think we'll get to the quarterback stuff. The second tier, if you will, second wave of quarterbacks. We'll get to that in a little bit. And the Jets will be included. Couldn't you see Tyler Warren there, though? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's why he's the other name, right?

Security guard. Security guard. Yeah. Yeah. You can be a guard too. Yeah, just something to think about. I would, after conversations, I might lean Warren at seven over Membo. Interesting.

We'll get to the Membu and some other offensive line stuff a little bit later. Which one would you take? Warren. I go Membo. But I got to build that offensive line. Yeah. Edge is about what you think. It's interesting.

It's like the odd picks are the ones that are wreaking havoc and some interesting stuff. like three if it's if it's not if it's should or that's fascinating it but like the four pick we know it's it's carter if he's there but it's campbell if he's not the six pick yeah it's probably gent the eighth pick yeah it's going to be an edge jeline walker seems to be in the club i'll say this one name that when you start kind of going through the rankings and talking about but where do you have them and who and just when you're having conversations you can always pick up on where they're like, well, you get this guy, this, this and this for the edge guys, this, this and this and this received.

And you kind of get a sense of who you're talking to how their board lays out. Not on purpose. They're not like, here, this is how we have our edges. But you kind of get us. Mikel Williams name comes up a lot earlier in conversations than you would think. I see that big smile on your face. Not more than I would think. You being maybe the general public.

So if Walker, Jalen Walker's gone. it wouldn't shock me if Carolina took the his running mate there Michael Williams number nine another odd number another fascinating spot everyone agrees here's the thing everyone agrees with my premise that I've pitched to everyone I talked to that Dart makes more sense than Shador with with Kellan Moore right yep got it yep agree but no one thought that they were taking a quarterback at nine no one no one i've talked to thought that they're actually we're going to take a quarterback at nine until and no one knows yet but this is the question probably the question one of the top three questions i got from other people

hey what are you hearing does this derrick car shoulder thing change what they're going to do and i'm like what do you mean change like well they weren't taking a quarterback at nine nine. All my intel was they were not taking a quarterback at nine. Now I don't know. The other thing I was told, two different times in conversations, you know Mickey, right? Mickey Loom is general manager. When Mickey's got his eyes set on a guy, hell or high water, he's going to go up and get them. They're picking at 40. And this brings me to my second wave of quarterbacks, okay? Conversation that I'm having is it's almost like, war, the lock at one, Chador is kind of his own entity. It's his own market. It's either three to the

Giants, 21 to Pittsburgh, or someone's going to trade up ahead of Pittsburgh to get them. Okay. So when you talk to people in the league, the phraseology, if you will, is that second tier of quarterbacks. And they're the same three names in that second tier of quarterbacks. Now, it doesn't mean the saints don't like dart over Chador and some teams have it the other way. But like when people in the league are talking about it, it's like, yeah, Ward's going one. Shador's here, here in that range. But the second tier of quarterbacks is creating a lot of, a lot of mileage, frequent flyer, five, frequent flyer mileage.

That's what everyone's saying. A lot of frequent flyer mileage this time of year, not using that. Seriously. Right. Yeah. A lot of mileage, getting a lot of miles. That's what I kept hearing. A lot of miles.

For Dart, Milrow, and Shuck. Jackson Dart, Ole Miss, Jalen Milrow, dynamic, explosive 43740 athlete who throws a beautiful deep ball, but it could not be any further away in terms of processing and short to intermediate accuracy and touch. And Tyler Shuck, 25 years old, seven years college ball, three season ending injuries, but by all accounts, like the maturity, ready to play, ready to play mentally maturity wise. Here was an interesting nugget, too, in the conversations I had about Shuck. Absolutely love the kid.

One person said, you know, we always have our group leaders that are down on the field and walking guys from place to place. They were fascinated by Shuck because he was the only one. All the quarterbacks kind of cutting it up together, staying in their little group. they love the fact that he no quarterback hung out and talked to and conversed with the wide receiver group more than Chuck. Know where your bread's buttered. And just like the mature, like, yeah, I don't need to hang out with these young quarterbacks.

Like I want to go find out who are the wide receivers are, you know? Everyone loves Shuck for the same reasons we love Shuck. Everyone sees the physical tools. The question I got and the reason why people think he. He's going to, it's more likely the second round than the first round. And because of the Millrow Wildcard angle could wind up being the fifth quarterback taken instead of the fourth. I think we both have them ranked. It's tough when you got a 20, forget the injuries.

They're all broken bones. It doesn't seem like something that's going to be a concern long term. Yes, the seven years, the age, it hardened him. It gave him maturity. He knows himself. He understands who he is. He's coming in the league. He's ready to contribute.

He's ready to walk into an NFL quarterback room and actually be a contributing part of that room and not be this little pup that has to be brought along. That's what everyone's like, like he'll walk in right away, get along with the guys, maturity level that most of these other guys kind of have to be brought along. But I got this comment, and it actually rings true.

It's not that he's 25, Todd. It's that he's 25 and he's only had one full season as a starter. So where am I going to get my man some reps? And how long do I? You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. I don't care about the age.

I get the one year starting, though. That's a concern for any quarterback. So I get that. I don't, for me, the age, these guys are going to play, I think he's going to play 10 years in the league easily. He can play longer than that. If everything goes well, everything goes as expected. I'm not super concerned about the age. But the one year starting thing is a real thing.

We've talked about it a lot on the show. It just, it's a thing. You have to play ball, man. And by all accounts, you know, we talked to him. He processes well. He picked up that offense really well. He's played in a bunch of different schemes. Smart kid.

All of those things are true. It's still one of those things in the back of your mind that sticks with you of, hasn't played as much balls as I had hoped he would have played in college. And with all these guys, at every position, really, you're looking for separators. They could be, again, not falling. But why, my goodness, he's bigger. He's got as strong an arm as Cam Ward maybe and stronger than Shador and a little stronger than Dart.

And he might be faster on a straight line than all these guys. And so why is he not being mentioned? And I think that that's a big thing for NFL teams is it's not that he can't. It's not that he doesn't have the traits. We love his maturity. We love where he is. But I'm betting my job, maybe. be or choosing him over a really good starting player at another position over like an edge

rush or a defensive tackle or an offensive tackle like a starter like Connerly or Simmons. I'm going to draft that guy over those guys. And I don't have this job forever. You never know. Next year could be my last. So those are the things. I think so often we, and this is the stuff that I like sharing with the audience, right? it's really hard to evaluate players, okay?

And then it becomes even trickier. But after 20-something years, like the evaluating players, well, it's never easy and you start fresh every year. And there's 800 guys that you would dwindle down to 400, but they're still doing 400 evaluations in class and all that stuff. But you get to a point where you trust your eyes, you trust what you're seeing, you know what a zone corner looks like versus a man-to-man corner.

You know what a three technique looks like versus a five technique or versus a nose. Like, we got all that stuff. We've had that for many, many years, okay? But then you got to add in, like, the sources. What are my sources telling me with the character stuff, the durability stuff? I got so much stuff that I hate getting it this time of the year. It's the worst, man. You fall in love with the player and you hear some background stuff.

And you're like, Mike, fuck. Damn it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But so then the sources come, come in, like, and you got to make sure because you don't want to have anger in your face sitting on the draft set the first night or the second night on ABC with Herb Street. You don't want to have a guy rated 35th,

and he's still sitting on the board when you're on the 97th pick. And it's been on Todd's top available. So like that part's important too. Then there's this third element to this process. And it's like the conversations that you have when they put some perspective on it. Like, yeah, I get it. I see that talent. And Shucks a perfect example.

I see that talent. I see the maturity. Awesome. interview with him. See him hanging out with the wide receivers. It's different than the rest of the guys. He's ready. But the one year, and then you start talking about, like, I could get Luther Burden's a pain. He's got some stuff, but like that could be a difference making guy that can help me right away. And so it's the perspective is like the last part of this. And I've got a lot of good perspective on a bunch of different players. And we can get into some of them today. And we got,

we got two more shows this week. But I do want to transition real quickly before. I hand the baton over to you and you like rightfully deserve this is your day but I want to get to one last thing one jam one more quarterback thing in before I hand over to my offensive linemen um there's a lot of conversation going on and people are trying to figure out where do I got to go to get where and can I sit comfortably at 33 if I'm Cleveland who's going to be there quarterback. And I talked about the frequent flyer miles. And it's because teams are trying to figure out last minute, apples to apples, interviewing, putting them on the board, we got to figure out, is he worth it? Because again, this perspective thing keeps coming up in the conversations I'm having,

okay? And it's like, it's, yeah, it sounds nice. I'll give it away a three and next year's two, or I'll give away a three and a five this year and a four next year. But like we're talking about, give me a position. Third round, we're talking about Harold Fanon, the tight end. Third round, we're talking about Jalen Lane from Virginia Tech, Torrey Horton, Jalen Royals. Third round, we're talking about Anthony Belton, offensive tackle. Third round, we're talking about Quincy Riley, cornerback,

bunch of picks, a parish cornerback third round we're talking about there's good value there this year man josiah stuart prince prince lee oman me ellen so like you get put a name with that number right that's that's the message i'm getting from people put a name with that number and then come back to me and tell me right but i'm also getting the messaging of okay Todd i want you to understand If you're one of these teams, and this is why this year of the quarterback situation is so unique and there's so much mystery and drama to it. Because again, Shador could go three. He could go 21 and he'll go or he'll go somewhere in between to a team trading up.

And then you've got Jackson Dart. If he doesn't go nine to the New Orleans Saints where we think he's best suited to go, you got Mickey Loomis. I always talk about like praying birds, hanging now, waiting for roadkill. When's that spot? I can go down and plunge. Here's what everyone wants to know. It's Cleveland moving up from 33. If the Giants don't take Shadour and they do what most people think,

the smart football move is take a top tier player of the top tier pick. They take Abdul quarter of three. Are the Giants moving up from 34? Wild cards. Vegas sitting at 37. New Orleans is scary. That's the messaging I keep getting. That's son of a bitch, Mickey Loomis.

No, I'm serious. Like that's son of a gun. Yeah, here. If he wants one of these guys, he's going to go up and get him. Okay? Jets 42. Kind of a dark horse, not saying they will.

But so even if it's shock, Even if New Orleans trades up for dark, let's say Shador falls at 3 falls of 21, or a team moves up to go get Shador ahead of Pittsburgh. And let's say New Orleans goes from 40 all the way up ahead of Cleveland, ahead of the Giants, ahead of Vegas, and goes and gets a quarterback, right? Now we're down to Miller O and Shuck. You know what I mean? And so if the Giants are like, yeah, like, who's the first round team that wants Milro? Are we figured that out yet? Have you figured it out?

No one as far as I know. Everyone in the league is, is scratching their head as hard. I'm glad you brought up Milro. Everyone's like, I don't know, man. And people were like, well, you've been around the TV stuff. Like, what is this? Do you know anything? So I tell them the background that I've shared with all of our listeners and viewers.

We appreciate you watching and listening. YouTube. You can also get this if you're watching on YouTube on Spotify, on video, podcasts, and Apple, Spotify, and wherever else you get your podcast. But I shared, yeah, there isn't a team in the first round that's drafting them. And I've shared with all the people I've talked to in the league this weekend, like the inner workings of, yeah, you go to the truck after, after the first night of the draft, And boy, there's a lot of frustration.

And the phone calls, like, we have all these production meetings, right? And then you have a production meeting on Friday morning to get ready and make sure all the elements and the tapes are cutting all that stuff. But, like, the first conversation you're going to have is, well, Will Levis is still there. We talk to his mom or his dad or the agent or to Will. And then, like, the conversations you have leading up in the production meetings, like nine meetings. I'm going to beat your head against a wall sometimes. All these meetings, we meet. We zoom meet. We meet. We're going to meet at this hotel lobby. We're in the conference room.

The Azalea conference room. But the meetings. But in those meetings, it's always a hot topic of conversation. The league wants to make sure. Okay. So I'm explaining to people in the league, like the inner workings that that's the league does not want Jalen Milrose sitting up there unless there's something. We're waiting on the official report. Unless there's some kind of like, yeah, he's there for the second night of the draft or he's there for some. purpose, you know, that we're honoring him. You know, people are people in the league are genuinely confused as to why he is accepted an invite to Greenback, just as confused as we are. But just like us, speculation, they may, if it's not something that we haven't heard reported yet and that if it's not something that winds up getting reported before the draft, but why like a special circumstances is there, then the league knows. they feel really good,

about the fact someone's going to trade up for them. So that's, it's funny because it's like TV stuff, and it's, but like, teams are like, what do you got? What do you got? You know? It's the odds, too. It's the same kind of a thing.

So we see these odds and they think a player is going to go there. But go ahead, sorry. No. So I want to retrain our brain. If Shador doesn't go three, we're now, like, and if the Saints don't go quarterback at nine, but again, that may have changed. And people in the league are really trying to figure out,

is that change Mickey and the organizational priorities there at nine? But if no quarterback outside of Cam Moore goes in the top 10, which I think if you pulled people in the league, they would say is most likely. When does the first domino fall? Is it 15 to Atlanta where they have the second fewest picks of any team in the draft? Talk to a couple different people this weekend who were like, watch out for Atlanta, but also watch.

watch out for Minnesota in 24. Fewest picks of the draft, four picks. So that's been the conversation. It's that like if, if Ward's the only one in the top 10, where does the first domino fall? Is it one of those teams, Cleveland, giants, Vegas, New Orleans, Jets? Most people think the most likely chances would be Cleveland,

Giants, or New Orleans. Those are the three teams that people think. are most likely to trade back into the first round, with Vegas and the Jets being kind of outside contenders, and would it be up ahead of Pittsburgh to get Shador if he's still there? How far would Mickey go up to get Jackson Dart if that indeed is their guy? Which team is lurking with the Tyler Shuck stuff? And who wants the wild card?

It's got to be a team that doesn't need them right now, at least for a year. And will Milrow be a late first round pick by a team moving up to get them? So that's all the conversation of quarterbacks. I want to leave you with this and then this is your show. Saturday quarterbacks. Everyone believes the only two with an outside shot to be day two picks, quarterback beyond those five. Ward, Shador, Dart, Milrow, Shuck.

Would be Will Howard from Ohio State and Riley Leonard from Notre Dame, interestingly enough. Yeah, I texted you about it today. You and I were texting about that. we can get into all that. We have the rest of the week and all next week to talk about Riley and Leonard and all that. I just want to make sure we get this information out there. But again, if you pulled everyone, the information I'm getting is they expect all of those guys.

Here's the names that you're going to hear on Saturday is what everyone's talking. The Saturday quarterbacks are Howard, Leonard, Ewers, Quinn Ewers, Kyle McCord, Syracuse, Dylan Gabriel. A lot of interesting stuff on Dylan Gabriel. but really like them, man, wish he was taller. Miami, Miami could use them. Miami. Any other team like Miami? Like another team like Miami, who are those teams?

That's what everyone kept saying. Then I'm going to throw one last name out at you. And I texted you about this too. I want to make sure that you got them on your draft tracker. Always you protect me. I protect you. Watch late day three, Montana State quarterback, Tommy Milat. apparently it's mispronounced a lot it's spelled M-E-L-O-T-T-T-S, something like that.

Just under six foot, 206, 208, something like that in that range. Really good athlete. They read a lot of, a lot of option, zone read option. He was the, like, think of like Nebraska almost, not exactly that scheme, but with the quarterback's role in that old, the old Nebraska, you know. but Julian Edelman, Tassum Hill, that type. Obviously different, not like tight end,

but like a versatile quarterback. Was it Joshua Cribs? Yeah. There were a couple other guys. We haven't had one in a while. Thank you. We haven't had one in a while. Bowling Green State University, right?

Yeah, I think so. He was definitely a Mac guy. I'm pressing my luck. I may yeah there was another boy okay anyway uh Tommy milla if you hear that name called it's it's going to be as a try to develop him into a julian edelman kind of offensive weapon type of role where he could be an emergency quarterback for her I just thought that was fascinating and be quite honest with you I will now watch tape on him this weekend yeah right I have not done that um okay I'm done I feel like that's enough awesome there's a bunch of other stuff I want to get to the wide receivers

Azaraku, Tette, a mecca, golden, all these debates. Make it stop. This episode is brought to you by Walmart. Life gets busy. We could all use an extra hour or save one. With Walmart Express delivery, you can do just that. Simply place your order and in as fast as an hour, it's at your door. Use promo code Express for free delivery on your first order.

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Bonus issued as non-witrowerable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit R.G dash help dot com. Steve Minch, this show is all yours. Take us away. Where do you want to go, offensive line? All right. We're going to go right off your tiers.

Your tears, not my tears, mind you. We'll talk about that as we go through it. I do agree with you, though. Your first offensive alignment on your top offensive alignment on your board is offensive tackle will Campbell. That is tier three. I don't know if you want to explain the tiers again really quickly. I think that's correct.

There are, there are clearly no tier one prospects in this draft. you can maybe make an argument for tier two. I'm with you. I'm comfortable at tier three. I think that, you know, immediate contributors, quickly develop into starters, quality starters. I think that's what we're looking at here. There are no Joe Alts,

the Notre Dame offensive tackle Joe Alt, who went early to the Chargers last year. That guy, we've said it before. We'll say it again. That guy is not in this draft. So we just don't say it. So let's have the Will Campbell discussion. And we'll get the arm length out of the way right at the beginning.

32 and 5.8s at the combine, 33 inches at his pro day, guys to play with that length. That's not my biggest concern. I think that both sides of the argument would say that's lazy to make the argument that just look at the arm length and this is why he's going to fail. I'll start with the positive. And I say this in my report about him. His length is a concern, but teams could bet on his ability to overcome it with technique, mobility, strength, smarts, and toughness.

I obviously have a very high opinion of this player. I think when you watch his pass set, if you're a fan of offensive line play, watch this man pass set. It is an absolute thing of beauty, the way he kicks out. He's actually, he's got a very high stance, but the way he kicks out and bends when he sets,

it's something else. It's incredible. He's very balanced as a run blocker for the most part. He's very tough to beat when he wins with his hands and pass protection, and he almost always wins with his hands. But we have to be upfront about some things. If you look at the beginning of the year,

I think South Carolina tape is the best example. I think Ole Miss is a good example. There are other reps throughout the year that he's not clean. He gets beat to the inside a lot. He's top heavy as a run blocker sometimes because that a length affects him and affects his ability to get there. The length is an issue on tape.

We cannot pretend that it's not because we just love the player and we love the human being and we think he's going to be great. I think he's got a very good chance to be an excellent starting tackle in the NFL. But there's a reason why I said earlier this year, and I still believe he scares the hell out of me because if you're taking him at four, I'd really like it to be a little bit of a cleaner evaluation. And I'm not there. Yeah. I don't disagree. No, I know.

Like, I look back, right? It doesn't met, like, there's only a handful of Joe Alts in the past decade where we all. all new. And had it not been for a bunch of awesome quarterbacks and wide receivers, Joe, like Joe, you could have made it. Like, we've had years where offensive tackle was the first overall pick. If that was that kind of year and there was no quarterbacks, Joe Alt's the number one overall pick, okay?

But for every Joe Alt, there's a Paris Johnson who got bumped up. there's a in 2023 there's a darnel right who got bumped up right tackle only there's an icky equi equanu who was a six overall pick in 2022 got bumped up pretty good players by the way evan yeah yeah but it's taken a minute not certain not like joe alt coming in and playing at a Pro Bowl level. For every Joe Alton Penae Sewell, who is the seventh overall pick, and we all knew he was going to be awesome. This is an Alex Leatherwood, who we thought late first, maybe some fringe first, second

round grades, went 17 overall. For every, like Andrew Thomas took a little while. Did the Giants, but he was the fourth overall pick. Jedrick Will, Will's got bumped up a little bit, 10th overall pick. Mackay Beckton got bumped up, 11th overall pick. Tristan Worf's in 2020 turned out to be the best of those out. So like what's safe is, I think it becomes a major part of it. And you talk to people and it's like it's meeting with like a three-time pro bowl

are already in the NFL. His football intelligence is just through the roof. What's not safe is some of the tape, but they think it can be coached up protected. against. I don't see a dominant player. I do see a player who against top tier past ratchers has gotten beat and that like, was it the, was it the, I forget. It went against in fairness to him. It was a murderer's row of guys. Murderer's row. It was, it was week after. There was one edge rusher to the beat him to the

inside and then beat him the inside again in the game. I'm blanking on it. That's a South Carolina game. Yes. Yeah. Kyle Kinnard. Thank you. So he's going to get bumped up, and we think it's going to be at four. If it's not at four, maybe it's at seven to the Jets. And if it's not at seven, the absolute parachute for him is 10. Mm-hmm. To the Chicago Bears. You know, Patriots fans should not panic if he's there at four.

He's not, this is not, you know, I'm not saying that this is, wow, what a reach. This is terrible. I just, I think some of my issue is the narrative. that's developed around this player. And I feel like evaluators have dug in, whoever they may be in the media in the league have dug in on either side of this player. There's no middle ground with him. And I think for us, we've always tried to do that.

We've tried to have the honest conversation of who this player is. And it's not that he can't play tackle the NFL. And it's not that he's the best tackle that's ever come out. It's that he's somewhere in the middle. And let's be honest about who this player is when we're evaluating. I think this is an important time for me to share because you're my nuts and bolts guy today and you're going to you're going to lead this conversation. In talking to people in the league, though, and I wanted to save this for now, I think, I think in a, you have to ask the question, right? Like if it's tape's not that much better and it's not that much better than Membos.

and it's not that much better than, in fact, Josh Simmons is the best athlete or the best, most talented offensive tackle in this class. Can wait to talk about him. And if, and if it's not that much better than Simmons, it's not that much better than Connerley from Oregon, why is he, why is it like, oh, yeah, he goes four, he's best tackle.

I think it's important to say this. And it's, and I'm going to, I'm going to lay a blanket over it. And it's nonjo business. Whose business is? Oh, it's nonjo's. It's nonjo business because it's not like there's certain details that don't need to be shared and it all. And there are varying from like, oh, he's a little immature to like there are some incidents.

But I want, if you're going to be a part of the show and you're going to tune in, you have an expectation. I've set a bar and I promise you I will live up to that bar as much as I can push it. without losing sources because it's more important to keep the source than to get some stupid little bit of information and not all of them turn out to be exactly true

so I'm not going to peddle on that stuff. But what I am going to tell you is there's a reason why some guys that aren't that much below the tape and the talent level of Campbell are going to go that much below the number four pick. there are varying levels very much varying but there are concerns more so than i can ever remember in an offensive tackle class bench there's some character stuff with these guys it's some

immaturity it's some incidents it's something like there membu simmons even connerly a little bit and ursoree erciary we'll get to him in a little bit so i want people to understand when we're having these conversations, that's going to factor into where they're coming off the board. Take it away. I agree. Listen, the NFL draft is one of the most competitive interviews in the world.

Anytime you're offering a 22-year-old, a million-dollar job, I mean, you're going to do your background. It sucks that it's so public. I hate that these younger kids and some of this, and you're not airing them out. You're just pointing out what, you know,

you're pointing out why this is happening. But it is the reality of it. There are subtle things that will make you, can make you a, the fourth overall pick or it can make you the 10th overall pick or can make you fall farther than that. So it's an important part of the discussion I understand. I do like to talk about the production and the player and the upside more than that because it's just, you know, it's tough. Oh, that's the, that's the baseline and that's with the foundation of all that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think

you know, I think we've handled Campbell. I will say this. There's one other thing. His stance, he bends really well, by the way. It's interesting. He does. He bends really well. His stance is weird or unorthodox you know me weird this is your show today man this is why it's your show so upright when you watch you look at the offensive line you see where his head is compared to everyone else and if you're comfortable doing it i don't have any problem with him lining up like that in the NFL i don't think it's going to be an issue wasn't an issue in college i don't know why it would be an issue if your your stance is like that a tackle i do think it's it could be an issue when you play offensive guard and he's a taller guy he's not and i know it's short arms he's a taller

guy. The idea that, and I've said this too, the idea that you can just kick him inside the guard, we get a little comfortable with that, I think, as evaluators of this guy can just go to guard. Well, no, no, that's not really a thing. And this guy can play center or this guy has only played left guard. You can play right guard. That's not really a thing. And then we'll get into this with Membu right now. It's not that simple. The guys can just play the other one. They can have all the tools, like, let's get into Missouri offense tackle Armand Membue right now. Is he a right? Is he a right tackle only. That's where he's played his old career. We talked about this is an unbalanced offensive line. He'll kick over to the left. He certainly has the athletic ability to play left.

I mean, this is not a, he doesn't move well enough to play left tackle. When you think about the traditional left tackle versus right tackle, the right tackle is more of a power, sturdier guy, whereas the left tackles the athlete. That's not the case with Armand member. He moves incredibly well. We've gone over the testing numbers. I'm going to go over specifically what they are now, but a 330-pound man should not move like he does. It's just, it's odd. It is unique. It is rare.

It's awesome. It is awesome to watch. It is worth mentioning, he ran a 491, sub five second 40 at 332 pounds. You can't help yourself. This is more about the big picture. It was one of the biggest surprises to me. And a general manager pointed out to me early in my career, you would think a 10-yard split or and the short shuttle for interior offensive lineman is actually a big correlation

to NFL success um it's wild how strong of an indicator of success it is the heavier you are and the lower you run your 40-yard dash it's pretty wild guys who are like 315 and way more that runs sub five second 40s, the list is pretty long of those guys going on to have really good NFL careers. Go ahead. It makes zero sense, but it's awesome. With Membue, I actually think he's a better run blocker than

Campbell right now. I think that because of what he does. He's a zone blocker. That is his DNA. That's what he did in Missouri. That's what he's going to do in the NFL. When you watch this man steal the edge and pass off edge defenders to his offensive guard and then work on to

linebackers. Again, If you're an offensive line coach and you're sitting down, we're talking about pass sets today. We're throwing on Will Campbell tape. And there's almost a tear in your eye of look at this young man and how good he is at this. Look at this talent and this technique. And everyone talks about size and strength and movement and all that with offensive linemen. It is a very technical position. It is a your technique.

I would argue maybe other than quarterback technique is the most, it's the most technical position in all of football. Yeah. And when you watch him pass set, it's amazing. When you watch Armand Membu, Zone Block, it is, holy shit. Like, this is, this is incredible what he's doing. So for me, I think he's a step ahead of Campbell in that area. He's not the pass blocker yet. I think he can be.

I think he's got every, every tool in the toolbox to be that guy, to be as good as Campbell. And I think he'll get there. The biggest question with him, we kind of hit on this in the beginning, is he a right tackle only? Is he only going to play right tackle? That's fine. He'll be a great right tackle. But if you're drafting and you've already got a right tackle, let's say New England Patriots who just signed Morgan Moses this offseason, are you, is that now take him off the table? That's going to be a separating factor. And I think if New England hadn't signed Moses or it signed a left tackle, we might be having a different conversation about who's going for.

But in terms of getting back to your tiers, I like that both of these guys are in the same tier. I think that's fair. I think they're very competitive. That's, you know, kind of how I would have it to. I have Membu ahead of Campbell, but they're both right there. The 21-year-old thing is interesting when you talk to people in the league. It's absolutely an exciting thing for offensive line coaches in the future. It is absolutely from team to team depending on where they are in their organization,

what the expectations are for 2025. Right. What they how much like how important it's past protection is always important but like do we have a quarterback who's mobile that can we can over offset is he super smart with you know pre snaps and protections and all that stuff. Because I judging by the conversations and I totally understand it the 21 works for them for the long term development. The 21 for the I don't say maturity, but some like the lack of football development and the maturity and how. can we weather the storm a little bit? Because there's probably going to be a little bit of storm and past protection as a rookie with this guy.

Just find that to be interesting. Love the fact. Football, wrestling, and tennis were high school sports. I don't know why. Can you imagine? You know, man, just trotting out on the court. You got your white, little white sneakers on. Yeah, Mom, I'm in the three seed today, you know.

My goodness. Who you? Yeah, my white. Like some little, some like, country club boy yeah i don't know how it was but i wouldn't want to return that sir and mehbu is six four and a quarter three hundred and thirty two pounds is opposite you serving um i just love that yeah i see all the things i think darnell writes a good NFL comp i think but i think maybe maybe more yeah more yeah not as mean as right was and breit right was me

yeah but i he's a he's got some finishing mean to him he's got some he does but not that level i yeah right yeah darned right was a different level yeah let me leave it this it interestingly enough because on tape i actually think membu has more physical gifts than campbell i haven't talked it's it's campbell okay just the conversations i'm having it's campbell and then it's membu banks down the Isn't that interesting? It is interesting. It's not, because I feel like the perception has been, well, it's Campbell versus Membo. And I think coming out of the Combine, we look at the traits and the 32-inch arms, 32-5-8s for Campbell,

it's Campbell, and then it's Membue and Banks and some other guys. Do you think the left tackle, right tackle and the experience that Campbell has being, I mean, a day one? I think if you're drafting in the top 10, MENCH, safe is not the right word. it's known commodity, and I can't F this thing up. Right. That's how I describe safe, but maybe I'm not usually. Yeah, I can't F this thing up.

I need something that's a sure thing. The worst case is still a pretty good case. I think with Membu, the talent is there. Everyone recognizes it. Get out of the top 9, 10 picks. And then you start compared to what else is left on the board. I'd rather, yeah, I'm going to take a risk on this. He's only 21.

and we can develop him. He's got tooled. Maybe one day he is better than Campbell. But there could be some bumps in the road early and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. I don't think I know that's the separator for several teams. Right.

All right, man. I'm going to talk about Texas offensive tackle Kelvin Banks, who. Fascinating. You, the last time we spoke, I'm looking at your tears right now, obviously it didn't happen, but you were talking about maybe putting another offensive tackle ahead of them.

I wanted to have the conversation of who that offensive tackle was. But before we do that, I'm guessing the first Georgia tape is a big reason why you felt maybe not as confident in Banks. And let's just get this out of the way. Didn't play well in the game. And, I mean, that was a big game. You got Jalen Walker and you got Mike L. Williams. That's a showcase game, man. If you want to be a guy like he was coming into the year

where Kelvin Banks has looked at as possibly on the same level as Campbell as possibly offensive tackle one, you want to be that guy, you better show up on those nights. You better have a big night. And I will say, in his defense, Quinn Ewers, the Texas quarterback, as a former offensive line, and I'll tell you this, he drove me nuts that night. I mean, nuts. I mean, stop drifting so far back. Stop moving into pressure. banks there's a couple times where the palms went up of what are we doing here because you're you're not

making my day any easier it's hard enough with jalen flying off the edge you think i want to deal with this all night it's a real pain in the ass maybe step up a little bit you can't do that you can't have it both ways right you can't say that yours has a little bit of a pocket presence issue and a little bit of got to get to your spots and move around i'm not saying anything man i'm just saying overall overall just defending my guy you can't have that argument on yours and then turn around and say you know, and not factor that in. That said, there are nights in that, there were reps in that game where he just flat out gets beat.

I thought Mikel Williams at it. I mean, that was the night that I was, I fell in love with Mike L. Williams. And Jalen had a pretty good day too. Great. It was bad. It was bad. It's not as bad as the folklore has become.

No, it was not a bloodbath. I don't like that he didn't play the second time around against Georgia. That'd be interested to see if the medical is on that. So now we're getting into the medical stuff. Okay. I'll say this about offensive linemen, right? They say this about, and maybe this isn't the best thing,

so you can cut it out later if you want. But offensive alignment, it's like the FBI and terrorists, man. The terrorists don't have to be right once. That's the edge rushers. They don't have to be right once, man. They're right two or three times. That's a great point.

They have had a night. If you're wrong once or twice, maybe three times an offensive line. That is a great boy. Hang in your head walking out of that long. locker room, man. I let my team down, especially situationally, especially if it's at certain points in the game. You want to get B for a sack on second down on the first quarter. That's one thing. If the game's rolling along, your team's behind, you've got to start throwing the ball

downfield and you start getting beat then. Man, it doesn't look good. So I'll say this. The edge rusher only has to be right two or three times that offensive lineman has to be right all the time. He battled in that game. It was not a blood bat. He did battle in that game. But again, showcase game, better show up, better have a day. And I didn't think he's. elevated to meet the moment. That said, we're still talking about a guy who started 42 games in college. We're talking about a guy who's got a good frame, a guy who moves well, and again was coming into the season as possibly offensive tackle one. I'm still really high on him. I think he's a, if he's a top 15 pick, I think that's fine. So for me,

I'm not ready to jump ship based on a couple of things that happened this year. I acknowledge that he's not quite as good as I thought he was coming into the year. He's still pretty damn good. he is pretty damn good he is pretty damn good he's he can mirror he's got strength he's got the size you look for his arms are a little shorter than ideal but i don't know what he was at the pro day 33 and a half at combine it's probably closer to 34 it's probably like 36 this pro day yeah exactly uh here's the two things with him i wrote it down over and over again in my notes balance and placement hand placement and balance i i just he leans too much into contact in pass pro i saw he leaning too much into contact and that caused him getting off balance it was falling

off of blocks it was just like this balance hand placement leverage kind of thing with him can he do it yeah he can um i i guess here's the other part that i just like in my notes 42 starts is a great thing. We want reps, we want, but why at 42 starts are we still having these kind of problems with the balance and hand placement stuff? When you're coached damn well, you're playing against top tier competition.

It's a big time program, you know? So that, it frustrated me. I hear you. It frustrated me. I think the balance when you look at his side to side movement, his lateral agility is great. But I do see the forward lean too. It's the contact balance almost,

Like in the run blocking, run blocking, lunging, top heavy, top heavy, hand placement, balance, contact. It doesn't show up all the time. It does show up at times. I don't think it shows up all the time. I will say when you look at that, that's why you should not be surprised when people say he might have to start at offensive guard. Because I think when you put him in a tighter space, when I see that with players, that forward lean issue, and I see it with a lot of players is to me, the first thing I want to know is arm length.

I want to know, is this guy, is this an arm length issue? Is he afraid he's not going to get there? And that's why he's leading with his upper body. So for me, that's the first thing I think. And maybe, you know, I don't know what his arm length was at his pro day either.

33 and a half is fine to play tackle. But maybe that is why he starts at offensive guard until he works out some of those issues because I don't think when you're in those close quarters, I don't think it's as big of a deal. or it's still a big deal it doesn't show up as much as what i'm saying um i did find it interesting i'm just trying to look this up i did find it interesting outside the quarterbacks it feels like he's one of the top frequent flyer mile guys recently though yeah and again in my conversations

and my conversations it was more about membu versus banks and talking about the teams that need a tackle and you know, the Jets, we talk about seven. Chicago's the left tackle need, not a right tackle need. And I don't know that they're going tackle there. Could be a tight end. It could be a running back. It could be, you know, it could be an edge. But

you get San Francisco sitting there at 11, right? Atlanta, interestingly enough, 45 players they interviewed at the combine, all defensive players. offensive coaches were told to stay home from Indianapolis. All 45 were defense? Yes. That's a great little nugget.

But their most recent private workout was with Kelvin Banks. And people have been speculating, well, yeah, maybe they could trade back. Maybe they think you'd get it late first. But talking to people in the league, I don't think he's going to wind. I think he's going higher than people. I'm just talking about what the speculation was when I was reading about him on the pro days. things on the internet and social media, because that's where I got that information from initially.

Talk to people over the weekend in the league, and they're having conversations about Chicago 10, San Francisco at 11, Atlanta 15, for banks. Just wanted to share that. Listen, you set your three-year tallies for us. I don't know if we have a graphic for this. Like, maybe this is a good time to get in this because this is something else that's kind of interesting to me.

The offensive tackle, the three-year tally, there it is right there, for round one is 5.3. Is this class that bad, man? I don't think it is. I don't think it's bad. I told you. I think there are more question marks and more, you know, minor, minor to decent red flags that are causing some of these guys to drop.

But I think Campbell's going very high in the first. I think Memboon and Banks are probably the next offensive tackles off the board. Somewhere in that, like, you know, 10 to 20 range. I think you're going to see Simmons and Connerly. could possibly get there in the first and then you're going to see two guards going the first yeah that's definitely but because we can get to them later if if guys are talking and you're hearing people talk about banks going late that to me is a suggestion that maybe only three go and i would be very surprised by that i just think that's and i've seen a lot of mocks where it seems to be

around the number and to me that's surprising because and we'll get into these players i think there are other players that are that I would certainly take at the end of the first round, if not earlier, to be honest with you. And again, there's other things that play. And I understand, but in terms I just listened to you the last several years, like dudes are going to go. Yeah. They're going to go. I like I didn't, I didn't mention, you know, uh, Fuaga, Mims, Jordan Morgan, Tyler Guyton, all went in the first. I mean, look at that second round number two. That is fascinating. just 1.3. Yeah.

Because not in the last two years because they all go early, right? Because you because or in here, I should have mentioned this. Here's the conversation I'm having with people. I don't know where they're going to go and all the mock drafts don't have them all going and you get Connerly and maybe Simmons and ursery and all that. However, I can't count on sitting there early in the second and getting guys. So I'm probably going to have to take them this time around.

And, and I want, these are conversations that we're being had. There's a ton of defensive linemen to be had early, mid, late, second round, third round and beyond. There's a ton of running backs to be had. Yeah, agree. That's going to, yeah, it's going to be. If I need an offensive tackle, I got to get them in round one. So I can't mess around. And you start to do those combo picks of if I, okay, if I take.

if I take Mikel Williams, who am I getting, let's just throw out the bears, right? They pick a 39 again. If I, if I want an edge and an offensive tackle, if I don't take Banks at 10 and I take Mikel, then I, like, I don't, there's not, there's not a tackle. So I either got to trade away another pick to go move up to get one late in the first, or I just like, I'll go get one in the third.

this may be a developmental guy and see what happens. But like, and there's only one, there's on, um, Tripillo from Boston College. By all my conversations, there's only one offensive tackle. They're like, yeah, he's a second. He's a second. I like him. We get into him maybe a minute.

But my point, if it's not him, then it's Charles Grant. Right. A lot of upside develop them, but like, I don't know from William and Mary. There's Anthony Belton. Like, I just don't know. Maybe he's a guard. I don't know, you know. So,

this guy will mention really quickly because I don't know if we're going to get into him, but you had him higher than I am. I haven't, but Miles Hinton from Michigan is a guy. He's just intriguing. He's just really interesting to me when you start to dig into his tape. Because there's issues. There's a reason why he's not that top tier.

My guy's got to start ducking his head at the top of sets. He's got to, you know, kind of play with his head up a little bit more. But then there's, you watch that Texas tape and you see some of those past sets and you're thinking yourself, what's wrong with this guy? So those are the kind of players that you're talking about. You're talking about guys who have flaws, but have upside. If you want a guy that's going to be a starter right away, I mean, I think you got to go in first. You got to secure them in the first round.

And yeah, maybe, maybe you catch a break and Connerley falls to you with one, like the first five, six picks of the second round or Simmons falls because of the injury and some of the maturity and stuff like that. Maybe, but like, don't bet on it, man. that's a bad bet to make it's a bad bet to make agree uh good where do you want to go next vers satir your offensive lineman this is going to meet oh whoa whoa in tier whoa hold on it's your show we're going oh you're going okay sorry sorry tears go ahead yes we're going the first i'm not we'll get back to some of your guys all roll out the tears again tuck you've done a nice job on this show by the way i've been very impressed you're calling you're calling uh graphics you're total control at the line of scrimmage right now,

Mention is. But I wanted to see, so tears were now into, after Campbell, Membo and Banks, we're now into the two interior offensive linemen. Both guys I'm getting information are very likely to go in the first. That's Gray Zabel from North Dakota State. Excuse me, who I have an identical grade on, Tyler Booker from Alabama.

I can tell you from my conversations in the league, it is, if you're on fan duel, and you're looking to make that wager on first interior, offensive linemen off the board. Run and hit grab your at FD Sportsbook app right now and take Booker. I don't know what the odds are, but but it's it's not safe money, but it's the smart play because everyone I'm talking to when he thinks it's going to be Booker. And he could go a little higher.

I think the floor for Booker is, um, is Baltimore. We can get to all that stuff. Oh, what a great fit that would be. What a great fit that would be. Yes. I will, just for conversation's sake, we'll get to. in a Booker in a second. Gray's able, North Dakota State.

I hate that this is going to be the potential of me turning heel, but here we go. I hear a lot of positional versatility talk about Gray's able. We understand that he can't play tackle, right? And it's not just a length thing. By the way, it is a length thing.

We're now talking about 32 inch at the combine, 32 and a quarter at the senior ball. It is a length issue for him. Go back and I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to people or, you know, questioning what I'm saying, or I'll just say, when you watch his tape, go back and watch his tape or when you watch his tape, there are some issues last year of him being at offensive tackle in handling speed

and edge rushers. He was not as clean as I expected after a dominant senior bowl performance. I had some concerns after the tape. Now, the reason why you think he's going to go as high as he is, is that I think that he's got a chance to be a Pro Bowl guard based on his balance, the way he moves his feet. He's got some power to his game. I think when you project him, I think he's just playing out of position last year. And you start putting him in the inside. You see what happened at the Senior Bowl where he was ultra competitive, played extremely well. I do also believe that he's got a chance to be an all-pro center.

My concern with that is, I'm not sure he can play center yet. I know he's done some things where he's snapped and I know that he's open to the idea and I know his skill set makes him an outstanding center prospect. But snapping at the senior bowl and at the combine and showing it for workouts is a different thing than moving to center full time and everything that that position entails. So to me, when I started seeing him at 18, I started seeing him going super earlier. I was like, wow, it feels like an overcorrection. He's better than we thought he was coming in. He's going to be a great on the interior offensive line. I don't hate late first.

I think the grade's perfect. I think it was an 89 you had on him. That's an early second lay first. It's the perfect grade for him. I just think that this is a player that people saw at the senior ball in rightfully so, loved what he did there. But there are still enough things there to be concerned about, well, that's why he might go after Booker or that's why he might not go as early as some

people thought he might go at some point he moves differently than all the other interior offensive lineman in this class now granted it's it's it's a tackle it's out in space a lot it's in that system zone he's a zone that's the difference too like your market is limited to the scheme of the teams drafting and so exactly and i think i think in a perfect world booker is a gap-heavy scheme Power man, but, blah, ba. Zabel is a zone blocking scheme. But I want people to understand, like, when you watch his tape, it looks different than the other guys. He is light on his feet.

He moves extremely well. He does have short arms. I get it. I don't, he's not a road grader. He's not going to come in. He's not going to drive guys off, but he's going to get to the point. He's good with his, good with his angles. Excellent leverage, leverage for it.

For a tall guy, very good balance, okay? Also, what people to realize, we're talking about basically a 6-6 offensive tackle that's going to kick into guard, 312 pounds, short arms, small hands. But, my goodness, like, I was just so impressed with him when, like, watching him with the, like, the angles in the run game and watching the, like, how well he moved and how balanced he was at that tall frame. I saw some Cody Mock. I saw some Dominic Poonie.

I just, I think a guard may, yeah, I'm with you. He's going to be a damn good guard in the league. And he may be a damn good center, but at least my fallback is he's going to be a really good starting guard for me in my zone blocking scheme. And that's all there is to it. There's nothing more. I don't need him to tackle.

In a pinch, yes, he's played there. And he could probably kick outside for 10 plays or, or like to finish out a game. But I'm not starting a game with him at left tackle or right tackle. It's going to be a guard or center. And that does provide position flexibility because it doesn't mean, maybe in a certain week I don't have to carry an offensive tackle. And I can carry an extra wide receiver or return special.

You know what I mean? So those things factor in. But at the end of the day, that's what he is. He's a zone blocking interior offensive lineman. And he moves differently than Booker and Jackson and all the rest of those. interior guys. By the way, he knew it. I mean, that's why he showed up in Mobile.

It was like, yeah, I'll play guard. I'll snap. I'm going to show. He was voted by NFL scouts, not by teammates, not by defensive linemen, by NFL scouts who are studying this as close as anyone's studying it during the week. He was the practice player of the week at all positions, quarterbacks, running backs, watershed. Okay.

He did play some centers you talked about there. Like, I don't like all those guys that go to the. senior bowl and dominate that level of competition have gone on to be really good NFL players, a small school guys, Tehran Armstead, Ali Marpet, Cody Mock, also NDSU, Patens his game after, models it. Dylan. Is he really? I seem he's a different player, but yeah, that's interesting.

No, I know, but he, that's who he, that's who he looks up, Quinn, Quinn Miners. Like, all those guys have gone to the senior bowl, dominated that week, small school guys, draft a little higher than we thought coming into the week. and all have gone on to have really good NFL careers, man. Yeah, I agree. I see it happening too. I just thought I thought that 18 was a little high. I thought that people were getting a little too carried away,

but late first, that makes sense to me. It does. And let's not forget, because some years are different, that senior bowl roster was loaded with defensive tackles. I mean, it was, I talked about a murderous role like we talked about earlier. I mean, that was, and if people forget, I want to bring this back up, clearly he had a plan going there that he was going to show teams that he could play on the inside and he executed that plan flawlessly but he also showed that i mean he he couldn't get enough reps i mean it was like he was fighting to get into one-on-ones just give me more reps more reps more reps you need a guard you need the center i'm here i'm here i mean talk about showing your competitiveness your willingness to get in there like some guys you know they get a good rep and all sudden they're in the back trying to hide they're getting some water talking to the trainer they felt like they might have tweaked something you know i got my good tape for the day this kid was all about getting better over the week,

about showing what he could do. And we're talking again about these little things that separate guys. I mean, I think that puts him in a different category in some ways. I didn't love Tyler Booker's tape as much as the consensus seems to be in the league. I knew it. I get it, man. He's got 34.5 inch arms, 11 inch hands,

massive, long, six four and a half, 321 pounds, ton of wars, 25 games that left guard the last two seasons. Like my daughter could marry this man. He could be the leader of my corporation. I trust him implicitly.

All the conversations coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's like the offensive line version of Will Anderson. Yeah, I've got like best interview of the entire combine. is one of the best interviews, another one. One of the best interviews I've literally ever in my entire long career had was with Booker. Sabin, the coach is talking about his character in the top 1% of 1% guys. He and Will Anderson, like, so like I get like safest, all that stuff. Smart as a whip, consistent worker.

I just didn't love his tape. So let me ask you this. Go ahead, because it's about something to get into. Go ahead. And it's like the workout stuff was actually worse than what I saw on tape. It really was. But it's 27-inch vertical jump,

7-10 broad jump, 21 bench press reps were all the worst of all the offensive linemen. There were like 60-something guys from the off the worst of all of them. And that's lower body explosiveness and upper body power. That's not even talking about the slower feet. But I get it like in a gap scheme, power straight ahead. No one's getting by this. Baltimore.

Yep. Baltimore. It screams Baltimore. The guy that doesn't fit other schemes. It's perfect for us. And Houston and Houston and Houston. Yeah. Houston.

We got a problem. It's an offensive guard from out. But who was, but remember, Will, Will Anderson. right yeah character guys and and what's been all the talk all off season i mentioned this the other day uh get they get anyone who was associated it felt like with that offensive line room for houston domico ryan's the character of that group the character of that group they got rid of everyone including laram laramie tonsil they wanted to bring in and that's what i just think and I'm trying, Houston is picking at 25.

So I don't know that he's getting to 20, what's Baltimore, 28, 27, sorry, 27, yep, yeah. So tell me this, because you dove into this a little bit about when you're evaluating players and the process of that. And I thought all of that was interesting about when you get opinions at the end and kind of how that gives you some perspective now that you have all these guys sorted and all of that. One thing you didn't mention that was really popping out my mind,

and this is a player that immediately I thought of, is how the game evolves. So the game now, the running game evolved, I think you have a higher premium for players that can move like an Armand Membo, guys that move well and can zone block. I think that's valued more now. So if you're evaluating Tyler Booker in 2002, 2002, 2003, you might look at him and have a different opinion

because of how he wins and how he wins is power, intelligence, length, effort. That's who he is. He masks all of those weaknesses because the testing reflects what you see on tape. And I agree with you. It's a little bit worse. But it reflects what you see on tape. He doesn't have great feet. It doesn't move all that well.

He's not going to fit real well in a scheme like Miami that wants to run outside zone and get their guys on the move. Just not what he does. So you also have to look at how the game is evolved. we talk about this with smaller receivers. It's now a thing that smaller smaller receivers can come in the league and be productive. And I do think that Tyler Booker is a great example of a guy,

you know, even longer than this. I mean, if you went back 30 years, it would be even more so, who would be of a higher value prospect in that version of the NFL than he is today. Yeah. Yeah. But now the run game is starting to come back and cover two defense.

A little bit. Yeah. But yeah. No, I hear you. I'm with you. I agree. I don't disagree. All right. This is the guy. We're getting back to an offensive tackle, bouncing around.

Tears, baby. Yep. This is the guy that I thought you had moved ahead of Kelvin Banks. Minnesota offensive tackle, Arianti, Urshare. Yeah. Am I right? You're exactly right. Here's my thing on nursery.

And there's, like I said, put a blanket over all. The names I mentioned, there's some stuff that you've got to work through. Okay. On tape. Here's the hard. Here's the hard part. the best two players on tape traits-wise, you could argue, I would throw Membu in there too. The best three players on tape, if I'm just doing the traits and what they can potentially be,

if put in the right situation with the right coaching staff and continue to develop, I would say Membu, Ursery, and Simmons, and not necessarily in that order. Simmons tape Simmons is beautiful in terms of like we'll get the way he moves and all that you know I have I have beef go ahead. In terms of traits. Right. Here's the thing with ursery man and sort through all the other stuff. But on tape, I'm looking at a 6-6-331 pounder who ran a 5.040. I already told you that size with that speed what it means.

I wrote down, and I believe this to be true, and I went back and did a study, and I'm not going to wear people out on it. Big guys that move like this don't fail. Very rarely. Orlando Browns, Dan Faulele, even moving into guard. DeWan Jones, piece of, you know what, coming out,

all the problems and all the issues and all that, starting for Cleveland. Amarius Mims. Cincinnati, Trent Brown, 6-7, 355, seventh-round pick. Been in the league 100 years. This guy moves well and he's a big, big dude, man. He surprised me on tape because he's quick and his knee bend. He can bend.

I think he has a potential to develop into an elite pass blocker. I do. He certainly has a potential. Massive frame and golf defenders in the run game. Quick, surprisingly balanced. I'm watching all these other guys. They're on their ass. They're lunging.

They're short arm. He's not the longest arm. But they're playing short arm. They're off balance. There's nothing worse than watching you big, Ophi offensive line. Oh, here we go. Here we go.

And he's like, he's set. He's balanced. He's on the move. You know? Listen, I've put up a lot with the, I don't, I don't need to see you pass it. That, that concerns me. Whatever the duck walk you're doing there. No, no, stop.

Yeah. It's bad. Right. This guy's a left tackle in the league, man. I don't disagree. You starting him day one? Vastly underrated. You're starting him day one?

Starting of day one as much as I'm starting Connerly and his. weakness and Simmons's immaturity and banks and his lunging. We'll get to them in a second. Beat inside and Mendo and 21 player. If I got to, yeah, I can start him at guard. Yeah. Kick him back out to tackle. The Michigan and Penn State teams, those games, I mean, pack a lunch if you're an

offensive lineman, but I didn't love those tapes, man. I think he's not clean as a pass blocker right now. I don't know if I'm, if you're New England. Patriots, if you're a feel comfortable, this dude's going to protect Rick May's blindside day one. I'm not saying draft him at four, mensch. Don't put. I'm not saying that you draft a draft him at early second. I'm saying, you know what? If I'm drafting late in the first round, offensive lines a problem, I'm looking at this guy and being like, I'm comfortable with where he is and some of the decisions and some of the other other stuff. I'm drafting this guy.

38 games started 38 straight games besides, you know, opted out of the bowl game. A lot of the guys did. fifth fastest of the offensive lineman was significantly significantly that 501 bigger than three of the other excluding Membo fifth fastest broad jump nine three tied for six competed at every drill at the combine yeah i love i love when i see that that's you know what i mean no i don't know i like i get it i like to flip this off edwardo in twenty twenty nine when we look back eriante ursuri will be one of the top three offensive tackles in this class and maybe the best or second best offensive tackle from this group. There, I'm done with offensive linemen for the day. You can have the rest of the show. All right.

Really? Really? Put the headphones back on. You can't. You don't get the tap out. I had to listen to every quarterback, every wide receiver. We're moving on. We're going to be quick with this next one, though,

because I think this one's really easy. Jonathan Jackson. We're like an hour and a half almost. Go ahead. We're an hour because you take, we're 45 minutes because you take so long to talk about all the buzz. Anyways, it's buzzing, baby. Donovan Jackson, this is the easiest report, I think, ever. He's a second round guy.

I don't think he's a first round guy. He's a, you're going to bring him into your building. He's going to start day one. He's going to start for you for about 12 years. You've taken care of your left guard position for about 12 years when you draft this guy. Maybe never goes to a parole. probably not an all pro player, but he's going to be your starting guard

for about 12 years, just, you know, you've taken care of it, you're not going to have that need again. He's just that solid. And I also think he's not a tackle like he did this year. But man, he competes his ass off when he's out there. And he, of all the guys we talk about maybe, you know, providing

depth of tackle, he's that guy. If you get into trouble and you get an injury and you need to do what Joe Tooney did for the chiefs, granted, it wasn't always good, but you need a guy to go out there compete and do that. Donovan Jackson's your guy. I think I wrote fewer words on Donovan Jackson's report than any other player in this entire draft. And I'm up to.

Easy. How of a player? Maybe not the talent. Here's what I got for you. Elite, elite run blocker. As smart as he is physical, NFL guard starter with four position flex if necessary. Yes, he'll lunge a little bit too much in pass pro. More space he's into less effective, but I'm grading him now. I'm, I'm, watching his tape a tackle. Highly efficient, but would never say he's dominant. So while he is an elite elite run blocker,

I'm not saying I don't want people to get confused and think he's like plowing dudes and road grading away. He is just so efficient and smart and his angles and his hand placement. Like I just, I love this guy on tape. I recognize his upside as is and as high as a lot of other guys. But he's, I just, I trust him implicitly. Day one starter at guard, and let's move on. Yeah, see you later.

Not an issue for you. See you later. Yeah. I jumped ahead to guys because these are the guys really I think I want to end with. These are the guys that got me hot and bothered. Josh Simmons from Ohio State, I've said for most of the year is the best offensive tackle in the class. And the more I look at it and the more I watch them, the more I'm convinced I was right then. If the New England, clip this on. If New England were to take Josh Simmons at four overall.

It wouldn't, I wouldn't even blink. He's that damn good. He's that good. Okay. Tell me what. I love this. I love when you do this. When you talk about how he moves on tape,

and he's like, oh, he's probably the most talented offensive tackle. I get off all the off the field stuff. And I get that there's, there's issues there. I don't know what they are specifically. So I should be clear about that. It's not, it's just,

remember when Laramie Tunsel had a gas mask on with a bong, the night of the draft. And everyone was like, oh, I can't draft this guy. Oh, He just got shipped out despite all that money in a pro for how many years? Okay. Just all.

Just, yeah, you act like because he got traded, it's the player's fault. And maybe the team didn't make a bad move. Let's let's, let's be honest about it. Let's evaluate what's happening. Tell me about Simmons. He is the most gifted tackle in this class. And I don't even. This is what I wrote.

This is my first line. It's not even close. In all caps, most talented offensive linemen in the class. dot dot dot not close iMO in my opinion so we agree so you're good send it in but i also wrote like i'd like to see him latch and latch on in space and sustain oh no i really like his ability to latch i'm sorry this is the part i wonder right see uh too talented to be lunging and on the ground as much as it is attention to detail consistency you can see some of the lazy reports and bad habits in his game when those,

when those moments pop up on tape. Yeah, great. None of them are perfect. We could, we could go through all of them in their little, all their flaws. We just did.

There's so many that we talked about. I just don't get it. He's that good. The ACL, I think, is the biggest issue here. If we were talking about him, if he had finished the season,

and he had to run through the playoffs where he played those teams, they played all those great teams, he had, you know, he had gone against Stewart from Michigan, and he could quiet the concerns. And I think he would have.

You can argue that he wouldn't have. Quiet some of the concerns that he got hurt early in the year and he didn't face all these great guys and yada, yada, yada. I think if he had faced them, he would have shown how good he is. And then if we do that, we start having the conversation. I think the ACL, maybe not even the medical part of it, his ability to come back from it because it's not what it used to be.

And if they're comfortable with it, it's not going to be a big issue. The biggest issue is it robbed him of a chance to show what he could do against some of these elite guys. I really believe that because I believe the player is so good that I'm willing to bet that if he had playing those games, he would have put down some great tape that he would have showed up for the showcase games. And if he had,

we're now having a very different talk about this player because you are still concerned about him, but you're like, man, did you see him against James Pearson the playoffs? Just locking him down? Did you see? No, I agree. Burd?

Did you see, you know, do you see him from number 10 from Oregon? He's just going to be a stud. you would have seen all of these things and then you watch the way he moved and oh no, his arms are short while he goes to his pro days his arm actually aren't short.

To me, this is a guy that's slipping through the cracks for reasons I don't understand. I think when I do my final rankings, he's going to be higher than I think most people have him. And I just, I can't unsee what I've seen. Plant the flag.

Plant the flag. The other guy who personally I'm a little upset that you abandoned your offensive lineman i'm going to be honest with that josh connolly junior was your i haven't abandoned okay good you just called dude you were telling me i would i want a hey tucker go back and clip like november yeah you're on and i said connerly don't be shocked if he slips into the first round what happened was if you want to be honest for a minute always what happened was

A bunch of other people in this industry went running with that shit. Okay. Yep. And now I'm seeing like top 15. Carter is my favorite player. And we both know who these people are. Okay. And so now I've got like now my name's attached to it.

And I'm one of them. And then you go to the senior bowl and he gets plowed backwards by Mike Green on that one-on-one rep that we all watch, which was awesome and fun. But he also was playing right tackle there. And he still has to develop what I was saying back then and I hang on to it now. one of the smoothest moving one of the most athletic tackles in this class like how his hand placement's improving like he's getting stronger but still has to improve both of those things got to get a little bit more core strength got to continue to develop his hands

i said i'm seeing like a second rounder here i don't know why he's not in the conversation maybe he could sneak into the first and that's exactly we're now i want to check the clip in 14th I think you were higher on him. Okay. I may have even said at one point because you were pissing me off. Like, you watch, Mitch he's going to go on the first round. I actually have recollection. You watch.

He'll wind up in the first round when it's all said and none. He should be in the first round. I don't disagree. This is what I think. And I think the league will view it differently. And that's why I think he will go in the first round. I think so many people have seen that Mike Green Rep. Do you remember Abraham Lucas when he came out of Washington?

That's for the media. I get it. But I'm just saying this. If you're not. I understand. That's my point when I'm saying right now. But Abraham Lucas was a third round pick out of Washington State. He was a right tackle only. I remember loving his tape thinking he was a great player. And why was he going so later? Why were people so down on him? And he had a bad senior bowl. He just did. He had a bad senior bowl. But when you looked at his tape, it was a different story. And I'm not comparing the players. It's not a player comp. But it is a little bit of a story comp to me in that he did not have a great senior bowl. Watch the tape. Look at the numbers. Check out the upside. This is absolutely an offensive tackle. This should be going in the first round. And he probably will.

Yeah. Because like we said before, these guys that there's a reason that six go, five point whatever go in the first round and that 1.7, 5.3 going the first round the last five years, 7, 4 and 5 the last three years. 4.0 in the last three years. 1.3 average in the second round. Yeah.

Because you're either getting one or you're not. Right. And last year's second rounders were Patrick Paul, who hasn't played. And Houston's hoping that, I mean, the dolphins are hoping that he can step up. Blake Fisher, Texans, Rosengarten, Ravens, Kingsley for the chiefs who played. Sumatia? I think so, man. I'm the worst.

Yeah. So, yeah. And last year was a total, you know, against the grain. It was a zag to the zig. There was zero in 2023, zero in 2022. So, yeah, I think Connerley's very likely to go in the late first.

I think Simmons is likely to go in the late first, but people are, there's some, it's just, but all of these guys outside of, Banks. Listen to me when I say this because I'm only going to say it once. Outside of Campbell and Banks, all of these guys got some. So. And it's and beyond just like the talk in Lee in NFL draft rooms is there is more stuff with these OTs this year than we can ever remember.

So. All right. I think it's time to wrap. it up i think a good way to wrap up the offensive line show is to mention that uh did you see the frank leonard retired no yeah i think that's right i i i hope that's right because i just think he well i think i hope that's right i want to enjoy himself but just the time to refresh our viewers memories frank leonard was a guy who coached at richmond he was my offensive line coach at richmond and was recently coaching at penn state and gave us a lot of information about tyler warren

And I just wanted to give him a quick shout out and say, I mean, what a human being. And the reason why he's such a great human being is why he was such a great coach. And that's just that he cared about other people so much. He was new to the offensive line when he started coaching offensive line with us. And I remember that man just absolutely working his ass off to learn technique to help us get better. It was always about the players, about getting us better. And it was not easy to play for him, man. Anyone who knows, I remember we were at a game at Rhode Island and I missed a block.

my grandparents were there and I won't repeat what Frank Lennard was screaming from the sidelines. I mean, he was losing his mind. And then right after the game comes up to my grandmother, hugs her, you know, tells her how much he loves me, all of that stuff. And then at the end says, but he did miss that block. I mean, in fairness to me, he did miss that block. But that's what was great about him. I wonder, I hope he doesn't drive his family crazy in retirement, but I do hope he enjoys it. Oh, he will.

One of the all-time great human beings. January 24th. sorry, January 24th of 2024. This is last year. Before last year's senior ball, he wasn't heading down there, wanted me to say hello to Theo Johnson, who's playing in the game. He's going to run a sub-4-6-6-6-t, Todd.

He will measure it 6-6, right around 6-6, around 260. Really good ball skills, willing blocker, is going to have a really good NFL career, okay? That's January 20-24th. On the same day, we're going back and forth. I said, what are your thoughts on Tyler Warren? Because I knew, I knew obviously who wasn't in the class, but I just wanted to get ahead. He's like, he's staying, but you knew that.

He's like, he will in all collapse caps, play in the NFL at high level for 10 years. Another guy will measure 6-6-267. And he said, smart as hell, high school quarterback, makes all the plays, can block. I imagine with training will break 4-7, absolutely love him. He goes also, also for your notes, dad played safety at Richmond. I'm sure you knew that. So he started in on me, and I look at all these texts, if you can see, on his guy. And I go back pages with Frank Leonard, pages with him and texts, all the players that he's had.

honest, but wanting to make sure with every single one of them, I knew the human, the work he put in, and that's just who Frank wants. And if it is the time for him to hang it up, he was at Boston college. He was with us at Richmond, Florida, I think Florida, right? It was a scout for the Patriots at one point. Scout for the Patriots. He's been all around the league and he's one of my favorites. I'll never forget him coming in the back where he had that back office he and coach durkin and then and then later he shared it with um he went on to be the head coach um mike london like london who came in off the uh just just he would come make she just to give you a picture of yeah frank leonard he may not be what you think of as an offensive

line coach he's probably five 10 tops and he's got yeah his trademark was his little duck walk I mean, he had his glasses on, thick glasses and always just super engaged. The energy he had never a bad day. He never had a bad day. And I'm sure he had plenty of them. And we just never would know it. And so, yeah, I mean, he's one of the special guys. Yeah, all time.

You know, we come across a lot of special people. But he's like at that top tier, man for me. And I've always appreciated his help with this stuff. And I've appreciated him. I went to Boston College one day, Mench. I told him I was coming over to watch some tape. He set me up in a room. I sat there and just talked to him the whole time.

I don't think I watched more than 10 plays. Just caught up with him. I just want to catch up with him. He's that kind of guy. So I appreciate you doing that. I did not know. Yeah, good way to wrap the offensive line show. Yeah, he's too humble to,

he would never want to make it about himself and for us to do this. So he would never text me and tell me that. But that's awesome. Great way to end it. You were nothing short of brilliant. Mench. I expected it and I got it. This is fun.

I think the producers are going to be like, well, maybe, I don't know, maybe Munch hosting this thing is the worst idea. No, this is awesome. This is fun. We're getting close. Hey, back on Wednesday and Thursday. I don't have all the details now, but I want you to hear me if you're still watching or listening. And we appreciate you doing so.

Spotify, YouTube, you can watch all the places you get podcasts. The McShay report's coming out. We've got a bunch of stuff coming out this week. A lot of this draft intel that I'm not going to get into on the show will be in there. The mock draft 4.0, the final one will come out. We'll give you all the details that you need. But later this week, we are going to do kind of a mailbag, hopefully some interactive parts, getting more information in our next podcast.

We'll preview that and we'll let you know everything you need to do. But we're going to need some questions from you. What's on your mind? What's my team drafting? Where could we go? Second round. Like, let's dig deep in. That show is all about you.

like the people who have made this kind of start to take off when we see the numbers double in the last show from what anything we've ever done like it's time to give a little back to what you guys are helping support and put into this show and so Thursday show is going to be all about you the audience and what you want to know and we're going to be here for that so until then later this week two more shows this week he's mensch my favorite offensive lineman in the world I'm McShay. We'll talk to you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-8-8-8-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Or visit MD gambling help.org and make it. Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.org or call 1-800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1877-8-Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.