The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 031

Episode Date: March 17, 2016

Bozeman, Montana. Guest host Janis Putelis talks with Annie Raser, Brittany Brothers, Nicole Qualtieri, and Dan Doty from the MeatEater crew. Subjects discussed: Annie, Brittany, and Nicole’s introductions to hunting; what it’s like hunting with women from the male perspective; venison diplomacy; having hunted vs identifying as a hunter; developing a game eye; on-line dating tips for hunters; women in hunting media and the term ‘huntress’; pink camo; female hunter role models; women in starring roles in mainstream films; why Janis thinks female hunters have it made; how Doty's wife takes her own sweet time at shooting; and the possibility of a Stephanie Rinella. Listen to the podcast via SoundCloud here: http://bit.ly/1VhcDUJ Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meat. All right, let's jump in. You guys take it easy on me, all right? Okay, I'll try. No promises for Dan, though. You don't have to take it easy on me. Just kidding. Welcome to another edition of the Meat Eater Podcast. I'm Giannis Patelis. I'm sitting in for Steven Rinella today.

We're coming to you from the ZPZ West offices in beautiful Bozeman, Montana. All right. I'm sitting here today surrounded by a few of the reasons why I love my job so much. And there are many reasons why I love my job. One of them is that I get to talk hunting with Steve Rinell about five days a week. A lot of people think that would get old, but it does not. We just love talking hunting together. Maybe not for the people in the office.

So cute. I'll do it every day at lunch creating adventures is part of my job description it's just I love my job but I also love it because I get to work with these fine people in this room right now they're interesting, creative

and thought provoking individuals we have with us Annie Racer, ZPZ West producer, Brittany Brothers, ZPZ West producer, and guest star on many Meat Eater episodes. Nicole Cotieri, social media manager of Meat Eater,

and most things ZPZ West. And then Dan Doty, who's like the grand wizard of ZPZ West. And many more things I can't even get into right now. We don't have enough time for that. But the reason I have, we figured our topic today would be hunting. I don't even know how to say it right, but we're going to throw it out there. Hunting with females, by females, female hunting, women hunting,

however you want to put it. I just want to kind of discuss all that. And at first I was a little nervous about it. Like, man, I'm going to surround myself with these three kind of very intelligent, well-knowledgeable, opinionated women. And I was thinking, knowledgeable, opinionated, you know, women. Then I was thinking, well, hold on. Like, that's how my life is every day. I'm at the office with them.

Then I go home. I'm surrounded. I'm outnumbered by women. So I shouldn't be nervous in this situation at all. And I think for me, just why I thought it would be interesting, it's important for me to talk about this is because I do have two daughters and, you know, to me, for me to be a great dad to them, I think it's important that I understand, you know, I try to understand women, females, um, probably helps with, uh, me being a good husband too. And, uh, I also want them to hunt, you know? And so I think it's important for me and many of our listeners, hopefully, to like understand the perspectives, thoughts, feelings, motivations, all that stuff from women hunters that surround women hunters.

And, you know, it's just knowledge is power. So that's kind of why I want to do this. So first I kind of want to get you guys going and just have you explain kind of like what your background was to or your relation to hunting before you were here and kind of what brought you to you know being sitting here in this room today and then what like your current introduction to hunting was you know or if it wasn't recent and it's not current, what it was many, many years ago. Brittany here. I got interested in hunting through Meat Eater. Before Meat Eater, I was completely anti-hunting.

I grew up in the South, um, where just as like generalization, um, I thought hunters were just sort of redneck bubba's who like to get drunk and shoot things. And even though I ate meat growing up, like I literally never equated the idea of hunting to meat. Um, so I was so super against it and then went to film school and started working at CPZ and at some point we picked up The Wild Within which is the original meat eater show and I was just like

oh god we're doing a hunting show we're so much better than this and then had a big premiere party for Wild Within and Steve's buddy cooked up all these awesome wild game dishes. Instant venison diplomacy.

I was an instant convert to hunting purely through the food. Now I've been working with Meat Eater and Steve and these guys for three years or so now. I just shot my first animal this past fall with Annie,

who's here. Um, shot my first rabbit with Giannis, who's also here this fall. And, um, and did all shot two deer in Wisconsin. Um,

that was just on the meat eater episode. So, um, and I have a freezer full of meat now and I'm super stoked about that. That was long, sorry. Yeah. I come from a different background, I guess. Growing up in Ohio, it was really normal to hunt whitetails.

So I was definitely around hunting. It wasn't familial to me. It wasn't something that happened in my family. But I had friends that hunted. I moved from Ohio in the middle of high school, but I had actually signed up for a hunter safety class when I was 16. So it was something that I was curious about back then. And then really in between that point of being 16 and into my

mid-20s, I was living in cities and going to college and just in more urban areas. That exposure died off. I went to Colorado State University and I had friends that hunted ducks, friends with duck hunting dogs, but it was never something I was really interested in. Then I came to Bozeman for a corporate job in the fall of 2012. And I mean, just sort of by default, when you come to Bozeman, you end up outside. And I got into hiking and remember having elk for the first time in a couple of friends' houses

and sort of being introduced to this idea of hunting as a source of meat that wasn't coming from the industrial complex. That really got the motor going. Then I did a backpacking trip on the Continental Divide by myself. Actually, I had this like really interesting moment where I'd been on the trail for a few days. I hadn't seen any people and I'm sitting at the top of this like high field and I'd just eaten dinner and the sun like set behind the mountains and a cow elk walked into the field in front of me. She was followed by a big bull.

One by one, over 100 elk came out of the forest. It was really strange because I froze. I realized on an instinctual level, I'm a predator. It was just a bizarre feeling. After that night, I decided that I wanted to hunt. And it was something that had come out of this interesting moment and I think all the different introductions of my friends leading up to that moment. And then I was looking for jobs

and on Craigslist I came across this ZPZ position which was so serendipitous. And by that time I was really curious about hunting. I made the decision that I wanted to hunt. Just becoming a part of the meat eater crew has totally given me this incredible education and background. I feel really privileged to learn from you guys. Then I was able to hunt for the first time this past season,

unsuccessfully, but to me, I identify as a hunter now. It's something that I want to do, and it's something that I want to be a good ambassador for. Can I ask you a quick question? When you said you were 16 and you did the hunter safety, what was it there that piqued your curiosity? I had a really close group. Actually, my dad passed away when I was 15.

We had a lot of guns growing up in my house. That was really normal. But I had never grown up shooting or anything like that. Throughout the time that he had cancer and up until the time that he passed away, I had this really tight group of guy friends. And they were all hunters. And they kind of took me under their wing.

And I just, I don't know, it was Midwestern. It was very much a community thing. And I think a lot of their parents kind of took me in as another kid. And it was just, I don't know. It came from this community of guys that I was friends with. And there were a couple of us that were going to take the hunter safety class together. But we ended up moving before I did that. My turn.

Annie, your turn. This is Annie. That was Nicole. your turn this is annie that was nicole i grew up in um montana and i wanted to be a veterinarian and uh my dad whenever we drive by like roadkill i would like almost start crying and he'd be like oh they're just sleeping like to the deer and i was like dumb believed him and uh he started hunting um he's not from. And he started hunting. He's not from here, but he started hunting probably five years or maybe two years after we moved here. Deer and elk and got a lot of stuff.

And we were always eating like wild game. We had like a huge freezer in our garage and my mom and dad made awesome wild game meals. And I think eventually I decided I didn't want to be a vet and probably started realizing the deer weren't always sleeping on the side of the road. And then I moved to Vermont for nine years for high school and college. And there's also a lot of hunting there, but I wasn't as exposed to it probably as I was when I was living at home. And then after college, I moved to Los Angeles. And I don't think I ever thought about hunting in the six years I lived there.

And then I moved back to Montana about a year ago and became friends with Brittany. And she told me she worked on this hunting show. And I was kind of just like, whatever, not interested. And then I'm a freelance producer. So this thing came up this summer this documentary I'm allowed to talk about that yeah we're making a documentary sure documentary and they needed help so they called me and we met about it and I was available and I was like sure I'll do it but I still wasn't really a convert like I was like whatever like it's a job um and then we went to alaska for two weeks

um to shoot a part of the doc with steve and it was like probably one of the i don't know most like life-changing experiences in my life just like the hunting part and just the crew and being on being on alaskan island i think it's okay it's all right sorry about confidentiality and stuff anyway so um that trip was just life-changing and i'd always thought about like where my food came from and um i read like some michael pollan in college and i got into different kinds of food movements but after that i decided like i had to kill something and eat it like just so i knew exactly where my food came from. So we got back, I think, the first weekend of September.

And two weeks later, Nicole and I took Hunter's safety. And then, I don't know, Brittany and I both killed our first deer a few days into hunting season together. Back up for a second. When you were on the trip in POW, was there a moment or what was sort of like the actual turning point? Can you remember? Or is it just sort of the whole thing?

Did you feel it when you were there or did you feel it once you got home? Oh no, like while I was there, I think, I don't know, every day was just insane. I mean, we caught and killed our food almost like every day. I'd never done that.

When Steve killed that black-tailed deer, like we ate, I mean, I'm sure for hunters, this is normal and now like that I've done it myself, it is, but we ate the heart and the liver like hours after he killed it. And that was like, I had never in my life, even with fish, like done something like that. So that was just crazy.

Probably that night when we were all on top of the mountain and like eating that and just all like really tired and haggard and it was just crazy. Probably that night when we were all on top of the mountain and like eating that and just all like really tired and haggard. And it was just like a celebratory event and eating that was awesome. And my perspective from that was like before Annie and I became really close friends and we, you know, I knew she was going on the shoot and I just kept saying like, I can't wait to go hunting this fall. Like, it's going to be so fun. You should totally do it too. And she was kind of like,

eh, you know, like not really interested. And like the whole time we were on, she was on the shoot, we were texting like the whole time. I don't know if you guys knew this, but like I knew everything that was going on. And just to give the listeners a little bit of background, you had been on an elk hunt the year before was your first big game hunt. So you had had that like initial experience to the year before was your first big game hunt. You had had that initial experience to get you hooked. Right, totally. I've been interested in hunting

ever since I started meeting her, like I said. Anyway, the whole time, I just remember, I probably find it on my phone, just a text like, I want to go hunting now, from her. I was just like, what? That's awesome. I was so excited about it and then like since when you got back you know like we just are planned like started planning

our our first hunt that we were going to go hunting that's one of the cool things about both shooting meat eater and the documentary and all this stuff for the last few years is that the amount of life-changing sentiments and life-changing experience that people have out on these on the meat eater shoots is pretty much across the board whether it's a camera guy or a producer or whatever. The experience of itself tends to change minds and change hearts a bit. Will you guys share your first successful hunting experience when you guys had together? Oh, yeah.

Because you guys doubled up, right? Yeah. Do you want to tell it? I mean, you can start it. I might correct you. Okay. Don't forget the part where your battery died, either. Oh, that's right.

Dan was nearby. We have a fact checker. Right here. I'm going to keep you in line. Okay. Well, so this is how it happened. So we had gotten sort of a tip from Dan of a good spot to go to in Montana. We're not going to say where.

And anyway, so we were like, okay, we're totally going to do this. We woke up super, super early. It must have been... Three in the morning? Four in the morning? Yeah, three or four in the morning. And we went to the gas station, got gas.

First of all, both of us are kitted out in full camo and stuff. And I remember we go in, and there are these dudes who are also probably hunting too. And I like i don't know about you but i just felt like oh they're just giving us this look like you were wearing your toms she was wearing like head to toe like first light and like i don't know what else and then like same thing with me and like our like because i don't know and then she had toms on her feet these two guys were just

looking at us just like what are these oh tom? And Tom's are. Oh, Tom's shoes. You know, like the, they give one, like you buy one and then they give a pair to like a. Oh, it's like a slipper. They're just slides. Slipper looking kind of thing. Yeah, they're just like slipper. Yeah, like a little.

Is that what you call them? Yeah, just slide on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, slippers. So it was because like I wasn't ready to put my boots on or anything like that. That is also important to the story. That's true.

It's true. Also, we were listening to like Adeele or beyonce on our drive out like i was like we're probably the only hunters who was listening there's other hunters because the adele album had just come out and we were like real into it oh yeah that's right um anyway yeah so that was an interesting part but so anyway we we drive out there, and we get out there, and you have to sign in or whatever. And we get out there, and we go to where Dan tells us to go, and there are just probably 20 does just running across this field. And we both had a buck tag and a doe tag.

And it could be either, for either male or female whitetail or a male mule deer. And we had the guidebook with us, but we left it in the car. We really like, we both like got like super, like,

I mean, must've been like buck fever, you know, we were just like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So we like got in the back,

you know, like put our boots on, got our, got our rifles and like, kind of like, you know, sort of not really sprinting. We weren't't running with guns but we were walking very quickly um and we get out there and like just so many of them and like we have so many opportunities

and like something in my head was like wait a minute how do you know if they're mule deer or white tail like what's the difference and and we were both like oh they're white tail and then we're like wait yeah and like we just so yeah so like, wait. Yeah, so we just didn't know. And we were trying to get service on our phone, and the guidebook was back in the car. So we were like, ugh, do we risk it? So we're like, no. So we ran back to the car,

and looking through the guidebook, looking on the internet, and we're just like, okay, they're definitely white-tailed. They don't have the ropey tail, and they don't bound the same way as mule deer so we went back out there and like they're all just crossing this this fence that privately into private land where we can no longer hunt and then maybe they're like maybe we had like maybe one or two other opportunities but it was just too rushed and there was no way it was going to happen so we were just like crap so we knew that later in the afternoon that

they would probably all come back over that fence and stuff. But we literally just sat out there all day waiting. Had we known ahead of time, but, and actually I think we like, at some point we were, we were sitting in your car for a while and then we're like, why don't we just like go walk around or something? So we walked around and spooked some deer, but we had like no idea where they went or where they were going or what we were doing or yeah we had no idea what we were doing um but anyway yeah so then you know later we texted dan he was like oh you know sean and i want to come come out and um but we hunted in different spots and we were like you know we kind of want to favor this one spot where we'd been hanging out because we had seen them all go

down the hill and we saw a ton of tracks towards like the river so we figured they'd be coming back up the same direction at night yeah so um so yeah that afternoon sure enough like we saw them on the private land and they just kept coming closer and closer and closer and i had my eyes on this group that was like you know i don't directly in front of us but then andy was like whoa look over here and sort of to the left there were like three deer just kind of all of a then Andy was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, look over here. And so to the left, there were like three deer just kind of all of a sudden, almost like running towards us. So we had sat, we were basically sitting out in the open,

but just below the line of the hill, so we weren't skylined or anything, but we were kind of out in the open. And yeah, they were like running up, and we were like, okay, like, oh my gosh, you know, like, this is it, this is it, this is it. And we both set up on our packs, and it was like, who's going to shoot first? And you're like, you shoot first and we're like, okay, oh my gosh, this is it, this is it, this is it. And we both set up on our packs and I was like, who's going to shoot first?

And you're like, you shoot first. It's like, okay. So we just waited and waited and waited until they hopped the fence and I waited for the first one to take maybe like 10 steps or so. And Jess is about to shoot and he's like, it's a buck. But I mean, I had, you know, and I, you know, beginner's mistake, I should have confirmed for sure

before I shot. But very luckily, I had tags for both. So I shot and it stopped for a second and then it kept walking so I got nervous and so I shot it again and then it maybe took two steps and then it dropped. And then the two other ones who were right that were right behind it were they're like very hesitant yeah they were confused

like they didn't run away right away and so i was like annie annie like take a shot take a shot and we were both kind of just like what do we do like do we go to my deer now like you know what i mean we were just very and they turned back around they turned around and ran back over the fence but then they they hopped over two fences and then they stopped and they turned around. And Brittany was like, let's just, maybe we should just wait here for a minute. I was like, really? Okay. So we waited for like, I don't know, ten more minutes. Sure enough,

they totally forgot what had happened. And they came back. The exact same way. They came back the exact same way. I didn't hear that part of this. Oh, really? So yeah, they literally just came back across as if nothing had really happened. And so it was basically like Annie was set up and just waiting for one of them to stop.

And one of them, I can't remember if it was the first or second one. I kept switching between which one I was going to shoot at. But whichever one you chose, like, it dropped instantly. Maybe, like, 10 feet from my deer that I shot. And then we were just like oh my gosh it was so crazy and then yeah and then we went over to them and

we pretty much butchered them I mean Dan and Sean helped a little bit but we you know gutted them pretty much for the most part and quartered them out there with Dan and Sean's help and then we butchered the whole things ourselves oh it's also my car died right because i shouldn't i shouldn't gloss over that i went to move my car to use the headlights because it was dark yeah and

then i my car died so our battery died after dan and sean left so we waited for your roommate to come get us we just danced in the dark celebratory deer dance and then we spent like 8 hours the next day completely butchering both deer all ourselves all with the help of the guidebook the first couple hours we were like

dancing and singing or whatever and then by like 3 or 4 hours in we were just like dead silent and then the last couple hours, we both had very sharp knives in our hands, just looking at each other like, I might stab you. I don't know if I'd do this any longer.

It was really impressive. It was impressive to be out there. I got out there and literally it wasn't more than a half an hour after I hiked out farther past where you guys were. And I heard one shot a little bit later, heard a second shot. I figured it was you guys. I didn't see anybody else, but I came back,

hit two deer, and I was like, what the hell? That's really impressive. It was impressive. But I'll tell you, even if you read Steve's guidebook and you watch YouTube videos, the second that thing is dead and you're like okay like now I have to do I had no idea like I had forgotten everything

with how to you know gut it and all that stuff yeah but we did it how was that process you know I'm like a very squeamish person and I hate the sight of blood I've passed out getting shots and like getting my blood drawn and stuff and I hate the sight of blood. I've passed out getting shots and getting my blood drawn and stuff. And I was really

concerned that I was going to have a similar experience whenever I gutted my first deer. And not even a single feeling. It was very automatic. Like, okay, this is what I have to do now. There was no part of me felt sick or disgusted at all.

I think the one time that I did feel slightly sick or disgusted at all. I think the one time that I did feel slightly disgusted was actually in Wisconsin. I accidentally nicked the stomach when I was like, and that was just like, well, that smell was unholy. But other than that, yeah, there was no part of me at all that felt disgusted.

Yeah, you had to go to work. I didn't have any time to think about it or feel bad about it or be grossed out. I a little bit grossed out like cutting the windpipe which i made maybe britney do for me you did but for the most part you're just like okay i gotta do this i gotta do it like now right totally hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law

makes it that they can't join. Whew. Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land,

hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team.

Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. It was gnarly. It does become work pretty much right after that thing falls over dead, doesn't it? Yeah.

It's kind of anticlimactic in a lot of ways. For sure. Nicole, you had a couple days in the field, but no luck. You said you had a shot. I took a a shot you took a shot i missed but still though you only you spent two days or more in the field um i went two days deer hunting by myself and then one day with you right so three days and you got a shot in three days so really i got two opportunities that's pretty good three days because there was the deer that Liana took me out one morning.

It was actually the same honey hole that Beaver O'Nanny killed their deer on. We just hadn't really seen any deer close by. I was walking behind you and I'm 5'6", and you're what, 6'2"? You're 7'3". We were walking back to the truck and I'm 5'6 and you're what? 6'2? 7'9. So we were walking back to the truck

and then you walked over to that little knob and then you just said, shoot that deer. But I was behind you and shorter than you so I hadn't even seen the deer yet. But then I got down and put my crosshairs on it but I just couldn't, I don't know. It was,

it was such an overwhelming feeling just, I mean, it's a big difference to go from shooting at the range and looking through your crosshairs to like having like a live animal in your crosshairs. So that was like a crazy feeling. Um, and then after that you figured out that my scope was on full magnification. That's a killer. That was good to know. When I went out by myself, it was around that same area, which is a pretty easy hunting whitetail area. The opportunity that I ended up getting, I had actually gone early in the morning and it's a really high pressure area.

So if you don't get there first, you know, like the spot that I went to for that morning, like I opened the door to my car and a shot rang out. But I had woken up early enough. I just realized that I didn't have any Hunter Orange. So I needed to go to like a gas station and find one. And luckily I did, but it just put me behind. I think that if I had remembered that point,

then I would have made it there first. But I actually went and got breakfast somewhere. And then I decided, like when I came back, like you could just tell like all the deer were just moving around anyway. Like I think they were just really disrupted because it was so high pressure and I was just seeing deer everywhere

and it was like 11.30 in the morning. And I was like, well, what are the chances that the deer are going to go back and break that crepuscular routine that they're having? Probably a pretty high chance that they're constantly being bumped and moved around. So it was funny. I actually went to a different spot.

One of those days, I went to about seven different spots just to check them out. So I kind of drove. I found some weird elk spots where you could shoot elk from the road. And it was like, I don't know, that was actually a little bit disturbing.

And then just because there were people that were just blatantly breaking the rules. They were driving out to pick up their elk carcasses. They were on people's block management land and people drinking a shitload of beer

and just doing things. I'm like, okay, well, that's not really my speed. Block management, for those of you and, you know, just doing things. I'm like, okay, well that's not, not really my speed. For those that you don't know is a program in Montana where it's like, uh, between private land holders and the game fish. And they basically set up a system where you can, like Brittany was talking about signing in, you're just signed into these properties sometimes, you know, months ahead of time, sometimes just the morning of, and then there are special rules

to respect the property. One of the big things is some of these properties, you actually can't leave animal parts at all, which you definitely can't drive out on the ag fields, and people were doing that. And people were doing that, and then when I was driving on that particular road where you could hunt elk, there were organs out on the ag fields. People were doing that. When I was driving on that particular road where you could hunt elk, there were organs just on the road.

People just left them out there. It was kind of a weird scenario for me to see. But I figured out where the whitetail places were and that's where I went back. I actually went to this little area where there was a little draw. And as I was driving back from that breakfast, like coming back,

it was kind of near one of the sign-in boxes. Well, two deer went from property that I couldn't hunt on to property I could hunt on, like right in front of my car. So I just immediately pulled up, parked, started getting my gear together, and that was actually when the guy pulled in next to me.

So I'm by myself. I have my border collie in the car. I'm just wearing yoga pants and a sweatshirt and Sorrells. I'm definitely not decked out in camo. Like many hunters aren't. Yeah, I keep it casual. Especially around these parts. I like to keep it casual.

I was going to look at you later. What do you mean by that around these parts? People around here don't wear camo? Oh, yeah. These parts being like, I feel like it's more, I don't know, I'm trying to think where there's more heavily camo clad folks. There definitely are a lot of them in Bozeman, you know, that put a lot of effort into, you know, high quality camouflage. But I feel like here and like where I grew up in Michigan and Wisconsin, like a lot of the guys I grew up hunting with, like didn't wear any camouflage.

It was like blue jeans, car hearts, red flannel, and you kind of wore your orange. Especially rifle hunting. It's not really necessary. They look like the original hipsters in all their pictures. Car heart pants and buffalo plaid shirts and dinner buttons.

It's that big red and black plaid. All right, I'm going to have to hurry you along a little bit, but you got an opportunity. So I got an opportunity, yeah. I missed. You shot over his or her back. I did, yeah. What's your hook now?

My hook? You're hooked. I'm hooked. Yeah, I'm excited to go back. And I already bought my licenses, and I'm putting in for some tags, and that's been a fun process. Did you get a turkey hunt this year?

I put in for a turkey tag, so we'll see if I get one. But I also bought an over-the-counter turkey tag. Same. So excited. Six bucks. Annie's shaking her head, you can't see her. Annie's not interested in turkey hunting, but I just give it time,

with the whole hunting thing in general. She came around eventually so maybe she'll come around to the tour. Would you at least go with Brittany to see what it's all about? Maybe. I don't know. I don't get it. What don't you get?

I don't know. Everyone's so into it. These guys are so into it. I've never even done it and I can see that a little bit. Just watching it doesn't seem super exciting, but like their excitement plus, I don't know, it's just like a different type of hunting.

Like to me, that's, I just want to try every types of hunting. Look, I totally understand. I was there for five years as all my friends around me were just like, you know, elk, yeah, that's cool. But dude, turkeys, let me tell me tell you man like how come you're not coming with us in april ah and eventually i just you know you know i figured it out i think you will too you'll come with us this spring it'll be it'll be fine forcefully yes you'll come back to the office and be like what's up Annie you'll just answer with

you can't wear all your hot pink that you wear to work everyday though oh god you're like no no I want to go then alright so those stories you guys just described they were interesting but to me really looking at it from my uh i should say uh you know with with no filter you know or no what am i trying to say here damn

just a very like uh like a blank you're not gonna offend us i don't know what you're trying to say go for it um no i'm not gonna no i'm not trying to get out of offending you. But the stories themselves really aren't. It doesn't matter that you guys are females, I guess, up to this point. It's really their stories of inexperienced and beginner hunters. And Dan and I did it many, many years ago. Plenty of people. Leading up to this podcast, I was thinking a lot about how my brother got into it. And I feel like I mentored my brother a lot in the last five years on getting into hunting.

The same way I have a lot with Brittany Brothers. And really, I don't know if there's been any differences whatsoever. I mean, it's been very, very similar. The same kind of amount of time they're going to the range. And I think that the bell curve of learning has been very similar between the two of you guys too. It took him. The first thing that jumped out at me with all your stories is that all of you went out and did it on your own this year which i think would be interesting to look at statistics of men or women hunters to see how many people have the balls or the ovaries to go out and really honest

to go do it like because that's one of the biggest blocks to getting into hunting for anybody is not having a mentor or not having people to take you and that's what people always talk about nobody there's nobody to take me or show you know so all did it on your own, which is super cool. Super, super cool. I think the door was open for us. I wouldn't have gone hunting. It's just sort of like taking the first step. Giannis took me out that one day, and then after that I was like, okay, I can go do this.

It's just having somebody's vote of confidence in a way that they're just kind of passing the buck. Literally, I guess. I think Annie doesn't want to hunt turkeys because she doesn't think it's a womanly activity. She thinks that hunting deer is womanly. Yes.

Turkeys is less. Is less womanly? I'm usually concerned about how womanly the activities i'm doing are like a ski racer and i'm just like oh does this womanly okay i'll do it i would say that's probably the biggest concern for all three of us we're all very feminine and i don't actually wear all pink. She only wears all black.

Now that you guys have made that, Tayden, that staffer, had that introduction to hunting, and you pretty much all consider yourselves hunters, Annie? Do I consider myself? Yeah. I don't know yet. I kind of feel like a poser if I was saying that. Why do you feel that way? Because yeah i don't know yet i kind of feel like a poser if i if i was saying

that why do you feel that i just because i don't know it's been like eight months since i even consider doing it hunted yeah doesn't that make you a hunter i don't know just going skiing once make you a skier no no i've i've now gone skiing probably 10 times and I consider myself a skier now. You identify as a skier. In some part of me, yeah. Along with all the other things that I do. I think if you have intent to learn something and continue to do it,

then I think that you can attach a part of yourself to that identity. I think that I might tell people I'm a hunter, but I'm going to be like, I'm a new hunter. I still haven't killed something. But I don't think that it necessarily takes a kill to make you a hunter. Because hunting isn't about killing.

It's an action. Nor does the amount of time spent doing it really make you a hunter either, because there's an amazing amount of hunters out there that hunt two or three days every year and that's it and they certainly identify as a hunter you know yeah you could say like i'm a beginner hunter once i do it twice maybe okay successfully so we're close we're close so my question is then has that changed your view on a lot of things, but mostly just like overall,

like you're just general view of life. Now that you're like a hunter, can you, do you feel like you just view, is there any, or anything in particular that you can point out that you view differently now as a hunter? Oh,

I mean, a hundred percent food. Yeah. I think food is like the biggest thing. I mean, one, like I haven't gone to a grocery store to buy meat at all. But whenever I do look at meat,

and the meat that I've, again, I both butchered our deer from the whole animal down to individually packaged pieces. And I know exactly what part of that animal, the meat that I'm eating. And when I go out to the restaurant, I think about the same thing. I've been watching a lot of Netflix food series

and reading a lot about where our food comes from lately. It's just so fascinating now that I have done the whole experience from field to table. That's just totally life-changing for me. Have you ever had a garden? Have you gard had a garden? Have you gardened before?

Well, I mostly lived in big cities. So in New York, I had a tomato plant and I had some herbs. So sure, I had a little garden. And that was so rewarding, to start from the little tomato seeds and then to eat the little tomatoes that I got. I mean, they weren't great tasting by the way they were terrible but um but that was still like super rewarding i was

so excited about that um so i guess i have had that same like sense a little bit um i'm sure like a larger scale gardening is um a lot more tasking than buying some seeds and putting them in a pot and putting them in my window. But I don't know, hunting is, to me it's different because you're actually killing something and then dealing with a lot of blood and guts. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's definitely been the biggest life-changing part. I think for me it changed my experience with the land.

And I think that that's really where it came from. It came from doing a lot of hiking around the state by myself, deciding I was going to do this backpacking trip by myself, going down into the Wind Rivers, hiking in Yellowstone, backpacking in Yellowstone by myself, backpacking in the Be Rivers, hiking in Yellowstone, backpacking in Yellowstone by myself, backpacking in the Beaver Head where I saw the elk.

I think it just changes the way that you look at the land and your interaction with animals. The thing that I thought while I was on the trail was it would be way more fun to be going and paying attention to animal behavior and being able to know how are these animals moving?

Where are they in the daytime? Where are they at night? And probably a little bit of that goes back to just my experience with riding horses my whole life and really paying attention to their behavior. I always loved herd behavior and learning all of those dynamics. And when I sit and watch a herd of elk, you see a lot of those same interactions.

I like it from that behavioral side and I like it from the side of hiking and being in new places and being in places that other people aren't going. That's really what makes me excited about it. I noticed too before Annie goes, sorry, is from the first meat eater episode that we did, the cow elk one, sitting there and glassing with Steve

and Giannis and all those guys, and they'd be like, there's one, there's one, there's a deer. I was just like, I have no idea what you guys are looking at. Now I feel like I drive around and I'm just like, there's a deer, there's an antelope. You know what I mean? I see them like really, really well. And,

and like I pointed out to the, to the, my family was just in town over Christmas and we were driving around and I would point them out and they're like, how in the world did you see that? And like, I have no, like, I think it just comes from developing a game.

I exactly. Yeah. But so that was, yeah, again, but it's like that connection to land that I really, I really love. And get your farm life a game eye.

No, I'm not kidding. Really kidding. Yeah. It's a good skill to have. How about relationship between men and women? Now that you guys are hunters, has that changed at all? Like dating? Like, do you guys look at guys differently or like maybe judge a guy whether he's a hunter

or not um well again like having having lived in big cities for so long it's like not something that you would find and really in a in somebody there but now that i moved to bozeman i mean i don't know it's i guess it's um it's definitely an attractive factor about somebody if I'm interested in dating them whether or not they hunt but it's not a deal breaker it's cool to then just the idea of maybe you can go hunting with this person and share this fun experience

and meaningful experience that you both enjoy but it's not make or break gentlemen so if you're listening put the phone number down in the notes i mean i think the funny thing with that is like um i don't know i kind of like just using viewing it for more of a bird's eye rather than like personal experience is that when you're on online dating sites and you're scrolling through guys, if the first picture that you have

on your Tinder profile is you with a giant bloody deer, even as someone who hunts, I'm like, what are you thinking? What are you doing? I think that it's great that what are you doing and I mean I think that it's great that people

attach so much of themselves to this identity but I've also talked to some guys that I'm like oh yeah I went on my first whitetail hunt and tell them the story and they're like oh that's cute and I find that kind of demeaning. So I think that it takes a certain kind of guy

to be around self-starting women. And I would say all three of us are self-starters. We're all going to go out and do things and it doesn't matter whether we're a girl and we don't do it because of a boyfriend that's like, oh, come on a hunt with me. And I think

that that's actually really different. I think that there's something really outside of the box about that. But to that effect, I personally would rather date somebody who's going to go on these adventures and want to be a part of it.

But I was raised to step up to the table and think that I had an equal presence there. I don't know, I think that factors into dating and I think there are a lot of people that aren't used to that. I was just going to say, just with the, you know, Tinder online dating profiles,

instead of seeing dudes with, like this is just a suggestion to any guy who's a hunter and on online dating, like don't show your picture of your big buck, but you should show a picture of you like cooking some delicious meal

because then it's like, okay, you can cook for me. Yeah. You hunt and you cook. Done. Sold. And the bigger the fish like we we get it you know yeah if you're presenting us with the fish like we're taking all of that literally so

thanks thanks for that okay so on tinder profiles guys um i mean there's a lot of fly fishermen out here. It's literally just a dude presenting. There's two kinds. There's the big toad that they got. Or there's the funny guy who holds up the fucking minnow.

It's funny. There are just a lot of funny things. I fish, therefore I am. Yeah. Yeah. You know, well, I think that... What do they say about big fish? Big pan.

Well, if you're eating fish if we're eating fish you do get more uh bang for your buck with with the 10 pounder for the five pounder so indeed i think that it's nice that guys are trying to be providers yeah yeah we're we're all happy we had someone here that had experience with the female equivalent, with the Tinder and the female that's out there doing that same thing. But we don't, unfortunately. You mean an example of a woman who's got a fish on her profile? Yeah, or a dead animal or whatever,

so we could just speak to the other side of that. I have pictures of me. I have a picture of me shooting a clay on mine. I don't know. I'd rather have somebody know that I'm passionate about going out and just doing fun stuff. You three are representative of what I think is a very important portion of the hunting public

at this point in time, which is the women are the fastest growing, I guess, demographic within the hunting community right now. And the other big statistic that jumps out at me, and this comes from Randall Williams, who you guys did a podcast with, but the other major, major factor in getting both hunting approval and converts to people start hunting is food and every all of you mentioned that as your first thing so i think you kind of

like right in the sweet spot of where growth in the hunting industry and the acceptance of hunting in a larger cultural i mean you're you're kind you're kind of it, you know, you're you're right there, which is interesting. It's super interesting. Yeah. And I think that Randall actually helped me out and got me a bunch of interesting stats for this podcast. And, you know, you guys all mentioned food as like a major motivator, you know, and he was telling me about how you know women are

in surveys twice as likely to say that they hunt for meat you know as compared to men you know which is very very interesting to me you know why that is you know you guys like just suck right towards that you know

and then it's up to almost 11% now are female hunters so one out of 10 hunters no yeah really it's amazing for meat eater viewers it's 20 that's awesome that's really cool yeah it's way cool that makes me proud um moving on we really haven't gotten to anything really sticky yet. Let's do it. Bring it on. I'm ready. Got the makers. Spent all yesterday preparing and this morning. I just,

I want to be well informed. What's up with the, so you guys are now holders and how you're portrayed, um, in the media. And do you appreciate how you're like, like the way that you're being targeted or how ads are geared towards you

in the current hunting media? And then like the current representation of the female hunter on TV. I don't watch a lot of hunting TV myself, but you just kind of see what's out there on the internet, and definitely who I see is usually not who I'm here talking to with right now. Yeah. I just want to get you guys' take on that.

I don't have a ton. I also don't watch a lot of television or I should maybe watch more, but I have like a very clear image of kind of what that person is. And I don't know, it's kind of, I don't know if you should talk about this more like those. The Barbie hunter. Yeah. I have a very clear image of what that person is. I don't know if you should talk about this more. The Barbie hunter? Yeah. I think two things that bother me most,

and they probably bother you guys too, are one, the word huntress. What's bothersome about huntress? When I think of a huntress, I think of a bimbo-y, sexy, dolled about it yeah hunt huntress who's not there who's not there for herself who's there to like be sexy to men you know what i mean and to shrink it and pink it like that is like the like sorry that's like the marketing slogan for women's hunting clothing and gear

it's disgusting pink is not disgusting it's pretty gross but the fact that it represents women hunters I don't see the value of pink at all in the field I would rather just wear camo

and then hunter or whatever I need to wear. Pink is extraneous to me. I get the shrink it thing, obviously. We're smaller generally than dudes. But yeah, I just don't like that it's... And it's not just hunting. It's marketing to women across the board in any consumer item.

Yeah, I don't see that as a symptom of the whole problem. Right, totally. But that to me, between the sexed up Barbie hunting and the pink and all that kind of stuff, I don't want to be marketed that way. What's interesting to me is not that, and I don't want to name names of women who do that in the hunting media because we already know who we're talking about for the most part.

But what I think is, what I do like in the media is people like Jennifer Lawrence and Hunger Games, you know what I mean? Or Brave in the Disney film, you know what I mean? Those are like... Just different representations. Different representations of women hunters.

And obviously Hunger Games isn't all about hunting, but... Hunting humans. Hunting humans. The most dangerous game. But I like those representations. She's meant to be pretty sexy, isn't she? That character?

Not really. No more than... I mean, they didn't hire me to star in it, which I was really surprised. You know what I mean? Not really. She's not wearing anything that's revealing or anything like that.

And not to say that women shouldn't wear those kinds of clothes. Women can wear whatever they want. I would say that within hunting media specifically, and being in social for Meat Eater, we follow a lot of different accounts and definitely part of what I do is looking into media and finding out what trends are.

There are a lot of, I think, really cool and interesting female hunters. I mean, I've always liked Rachel Attila. I think that she is really interesting. She's really the one that stands out to me personally. But I think what's happened in a lot of Instagram and Facebook is that it becomes this brigade of selfies.

It becomes a girl who's rifle hunting in camo with paint on her face. And I know from a basic hunting background that that's probably not necessary. So I think that there are a lot of, and I have a real problem when people are like, oh, they need to show real women. I believe that these women are real women.

They're just playing to their sexuality. And I think that that sells, sex sells. But I don't know. It would be nice to have more visible hunting role models for your girls growing up that are thoughtful and not narcissistic. And I think that's really the key.

I think that when you look at a lot of those profiles are kind of like these wannabe celebrities or even the people that are look at a lot of those profiles are kind of like these wannabe celebrities or even the people that are minor celebrities. I think some of them are good role models but I think that when I'm looking at 45 selfies in a row, I've learned nothing.

And I don't know. Or maybe how to do your makeup. Yeah, which I need to help with. Then it's not about hunting and it's not about the message that you're trying to send. It's about you being a sex kitten. Look at me. I think my personal take on women role models

and mentors is that whatever way you look at it, so hunting is a subculture. It may have at one point been the main culture in our society, but now it's decreasing, and now I would consider it a subculture. And I think anybody who participates in a subculture of any kind becomes an ambassador for that subculture.

And when I think about what I look for in a role model, or I think role model maybe puts too much pressure on it, but a mentor is somebody who's... Or somebody who you see as a peer. Yeah, it's just somebody who's an ambassador. And that's more what I want to see, is women who are ambassadors for the sport. Not for selfies and camo,

but women who are... So paint a picture of that ideal. Who would that ideal be? Who would it be? Build her from the ground up. In an Instagram account form or something? No, but in Huntington. I can think of a lot of personal female mentors

that maybe nobody who's listening to this podcast can relate to. Just what sort of characteristics and attributes? Oh, I mean, I guess somebody who is just extremely ethical, and that's a very broad term because everyone's personal hunting ethics are different. But somebody who acts in a way that they have nothing to hide, I guess, and that other people admire. Not just women, but men admire. And who, I guess, yeah, again, don't make it about their appearance,

but make it about their actions. I want to see more of what they're doing is good. And I'm sure there are, again, women in hunting whose actions are genuine, but I feel, and maybe that's just me, but I feel so much more distracted by the way that they look and the way that they present themselves

than what their actions are, if that makes any sense. I think the perfect example is when we had Barb on Meat Eater and she took Steve's city grass hunting and she showed him this totally different way of hunting. That was a really interesting relationship between them and I think that it's kind of like what women do a lot.

And we just come at the, and I mean, she obviously learned from her dad. And I think that there are a lot of women in hunting that learn from their parents. And I think that that is a really beautiful thing. It's awesome to read about people who are taking not just their son hunting but they're taking their daughters hunting and it seems like that's something that's changed over the past 30 years

so I don't know I feel like in the media I have no expectation that I'm going to actually see more of these people but on the level of someone who's a reader or on the level of someone who just likes developing community. The type of women that I want to be around are women like Brittany and Annie and people like Barb and people that I can learn from. But I don't discount men from the process either. I think that there are a lot of, um, really incredible guys

out there like doing cool things and hunting. And I think there are a lot of guys that, um, aren't, you know? Well, I think it's super important to, um, establish or find or highlight really good, solid women hunters that have a lot to say and have a lot to show. And, you know, know just i'll put it out there that i'm looking for you not to date because he's not today no no i have the baby on the way not to date but to uh but to uh you know continue this this effort that we're making here to to put out a certain type of hunting ethic and hunting culture that we make at Meat Eater and the rest of our stuff.

And it is important. We have been looking for a character for a female hunting cult role model or individual for a while and still looking just to put it out there. And I think it is super important because we just interviewed this really amazing woman in Washington, D. dc for this documentary we're making and

and she has a beautiful hunting story and a beautiful like background and her her understanding of the whole thing is really touching and really heartfelt and very smart and she shared uh very clearly that she doesn't she doesn't have anybody to she doesn't she doesn't have anybody to, she doesn't feel, she called it an identity crisis, in a sense, a hunting identity crisis, because she didn't see others and feel and hear others that she would consider peers or that she would look up to. And I think it's really important. No matter what you're doing, you want to feel a part of something.

And I think in our media state need we do need to put people I mean you look at you look at Steve and how many people write into us every single day of like man I really connect to this community because of because of what you guys do and it's it is important yeah I think it's important to feel represented like no matter you know consciously or unconsciously, especially when you're young and you're growing up. Your girls, for example, you look in any kind of media form, you look for someone who looks like you or who you want to model yourself after.

And I haven't found that person in hunting, in the female role. Steve has been an incredible mentor for me. You, Dan, Janice have both been incredible mentors for me. And I wouldn't change that for the world. But I would be lying if I didn't say that I still always look for some kind of female mentor in whatever, hunting or hunting media. In any media.

In any media, for that matter. But, um, but yeah, I guess I haven't really found that necessarily in, in the hunting. I mean, look what Ronda Rousey has done for, for women in the fighting world in the past two years or three years. I mean, it's just, it's incredible what's happened there. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But she's an incredible fighter. Like she's not just an incredible woman fighter or female fighter. I don't know. I think, I don't know if maybe there were more women hunters to be role models. Maybe I would feel more attracted, not sexually, just to them.

But for me, Steve and all you guys are that community for me. I don't feel like I have a hunting identity crisis because for me this works and this fits and everything you guys are doing and Steve does on his show to me is how I want to be as a hunter and it doesn't really matter what gender anyone is to me personally. No, I totally understand and I agree. I'm not saying I don't feel like I don't have a tribe

in the hunting world. It's not a visible tribe that other people could go and find. I don't know. I feel like you either end up in your own community or you have to really seek it out. I feel for somebody who doesn't have what we're able to have here. I would guess that MeatEater is special

in the fact that there are so many women that work on it. And that there have been women working on it all along, on a behind-the-scenes basis. And I think that it's, I mean, that was one of the things that got me really excited to work at MeatEater is that I interviewed with Brittany and Helen the week before they went elk hunting. I was excited for you guys,

and it was such a great show. I don't know, those are the stories that need to be out there. I think that more women are coming to it. I think it's a hard thing to come to on your own. To be honest, I don't know if I would have had the ability or like confidence to hunt if I hadn't been working at MeatEater. Like I would still say that I wanted to hunt, but if I hadn't been working here, like, I don't know that I would have gone hunting last fall. So that's definitely another side of it.

I think we have a, we have a built-in community for sure hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes and our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join our northern brothers get irritated well if you're sick of, you know, sucking a high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery,

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you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet on x maps.com slash meet welcome to the to the on x club y'all yeah and i don't think you know i don't think it's necessarily about like trying to divide like men and women but i don't i also think it's it's sort of silly not divide men and women, but I also think it's sort of silly not to have,

to say, oh, I'm gender blind or I'm color blind. I think it's... You're post-feminist. I don't think that that should be. I think we should celebrate our differences and our similarities. You know what I mean?

But it doesn't mean that I want to be treated any differently, but it's like, I, I think it would be silly, particularly because women are still the like minority in hunting. I think we do need to take like the extra step to just be like, Hey, you know what? Like come and join our group. And so that's why I think, you know, I, I identify as both a hunter, like in the general sense and as a woman hunter and hope that other women see that who maybe just don't necessarily feel as comfortable as say we were

joining in with you guys hunting and stuff who do need that female socialization I don't know what I'm trying to say but yeah I hope i just i hope that i don't know i can be that to somebody what about for your daughters the honest do you think they they do you think do you want the female hunting role model for them does that matter to you

i think if they um you know at some point might have a question that I just, you know, might not be able to answer, you know, as a male. And it might be hunting related. And at that point, they just might need, I mean, that's a big reason that my wife is, you know, continuing her hunting education so that she can have that conversation with them and explain things. Again, I don't think it's necessary that they need them, but it'd be nice if the need came up that you could say, yeah, we'll go talk to her or go look at her writing, whatever it might be. I think that traditionally, if you look at traditional media, a lot of it is designed to pit women against each other

and put us in competitive places. I think that when you think about the Barbie hunters, they're not designed to be attractive for women. They're designed to be pulling men in. That creates a competitive kind of environment in itself so i think it's like it's interesting when um women like us who don't necessarily like ascribe to that kind of ideal i mean it's not that i'm not gonna like put on makeup and wear a dress and like look nice um i'm just not gonna be like you're're not going to wear a dress in the field. Right, I'm not going to wear a dress in the mud with my rifle.

Your pink rifle. Right. But I think it is important to recognize that. I mean, a lot of those girls who we might not necessarily be pointing fingers at, they could be sitting and having a really great intellectual conversation alongside us. I would say that appearance is the thing that gets you followers or might be the thing that brings you to the top of the list

and especially in a world where 90% of hunters are men. If you put a normal woman in a hunting show that didn't have that appeal, it would be interesting to me if that show would succeed. That's really the basis.

Do you guys, are they going to trade in what they've been advertised their whole life? It's the same thing. We've all been advertised. It's what we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be the thin,

hair-extensioned, plump lips. Instead, you're Neanderthals. That's why we're on a podcast. Yeah, exactly. We have faces for radios I didn't mean it that way very low sexual dimorphism here in the ZPZ West office exactly

I will say like one thing about you know will men relate to women in media and this is a very broad example but I think it's interesting how many more women are starring in action movie roles. For example, the most recent Star Wars that came out,

it's about a woman and a black man. You see a lot of that. But in Star Wars, and that movie broke box office records. You know what I mean? And again, The Hunger Games. Mad Max. I think actually men are interested in seeing women

in these socially male roles in the media and hopefully it's not. I'm with you. I would love to be more optimistic about it. I am, honestly. Unfortunately, all those stars that you noted are also very hot and sexy.

They are. Men in all those draw in that same. But you know what? Men in all those roles are the same. I mean, they're also just as attractive. And I don't think in Hunger, again, they're not wearing revealing. No, I didn't go watch Star Wars to see tits and ass. Like the Star Wars, that was for the story.

That was for the character. Exactly. I think there's an element of transcendence no matter what that people can get down to. With hunting particularly, it's such a human activity. It's a transcending activity. It's not a gendered activity. We can label that afterward, but the actual experience of killing something.

But the demographics are gendered. Totally. From a media perspective. Let me ask you this question. I want to know if maybe you guys could you guys ever foresee any advantages going into the field and being

successful in killing something could you ever see an advantage being a woman yeah smaller egos no that's it's interesting play a very big role because as a fly fishing guide you know i saw it over and over again if you took the same same, you know, experience of fishermen and you, it could be beginners and it could be experienced, but in the cloud would have clients that were couples who had been fishing together for many years and both were very experienced. Could each cast, you know, way past the bank and get you all your flies lost and, you know,

sometimes put them where they had to be. But if you had to be but if you had to bet just like who was going to catch the most fish it was the woman and it was usually because her lack of ego would allow her to listen to the guide take those directions and be like that i'm gonna listen to him because that or her if the guy was god was a gal but that's going to help me catch fish and so they would end up catching more fish. It would often make for very frustrated husbands, male counterparts. But like, so I could see that because you could like put your ego aside

and think more clearly through the, you know, tactic or, you know, however you want to look at, you know, whatever was ahead of you to challenge. I think, I mean, I think coachability is definitely something that's built into women. I don't know. I guess for me personally, I grew up playing sports, so it was a natural part of what I did.

Maybe I shouldn't speak for all women. I think that when people talk about, I've heard people say, and I haven't seen anything empirical, if it's out there, please let me know, that women are better shots when they are learning how to shoot because it's not, I mean, for us,

it's just something that we're learning how to do and for men, it's perceived as something that's a masculine, oh, I should be good at shooting. But that's just like- I took a bad shot and I was fresh. Yeah, and I'm saying when you go out to the range and you're learning that said, I took a bad shot when I was fresh. Yeah, and I'm saying when you go out to the range and you're learning that basic, the basics,

it seems like... I don't know. I've heard that same thing too, though. I took my wife shooting this year for the first time. And she shot better than I did. But she took, God, it was ridiculous,

took like 30 minutes to shoot four shots. I was like, I'm going to shoot myself. I'm the same way. I feel like maybe there's just a different type of perfectionism that has been fostered in us from a gendered perspective. I don't know, this is all anecdotal. It's funny because I think from an experiential place,

I know that I'm a really coachable person and I know that I'm a person who's open to that. But I also know other women that I'm like, you could never tell them what to do. So it's a big, I don't know. Also, again, anecdotally, when I was hunting with Doug and the doe that I shot, I mean, what I guess wasn't seen in the footage was

we saw her, you know, maybe 10 minutes or so before, and Doug was just like, all right, move over here, move over here. And she had no idea where we were. And I was like, she's going to walk right in front of me. I don't want to get up and rustle around. But he kept being like,

and this is nothing against Doug, I love Doug, and I listened to him, no problem taking his advice. But I just, I don't know if this is a good example of either I just had the patience to wait or I was just completely ignoring his advice. But he just kept telling me, move and get into this position. And I just, I wanted to wait or like I was just completely ignoring his advice but he just kept telling me like move and get into this position and I just I wanted to wait until I because I just had this feeling that she was going to walk right in front of me and she did and I shot her

you know I don't know like what that's if that's either proving or disproving the point that we're making but I don't know just another anecdote but that was that being a woman helped you in that situation no but I'm just you know what you guys are talking about like whether women are more anecdote. But that being a woman helped you in that situation? No, but what you guys are talking about, whether women are more patient to wait for a better shot or were more coachable. Again, I don't know. I think hunting

and hunting media has been really male-focused. So we don't necessarily have all of the baggage, I guess, of having somebody tell us what we should be as marksmen or as a fly fisherman. I mean, you think of all those words, I mean, it's not markswoman, it can be.

But if you're going and just going to say it, the word man is attached to all those words. And I like language, so those are just some of the things that stick out. But I don't know. I think that sometimes you get so high level. And just going back to what you were saying initially, all of our first hunting experiences, they weren't gendered experiences, they were hunting experiences.

So what's the benefit to that? I think maybe the benefit is the fact that like we are in a society like where we can go out and do those things and I can own a gun and rent an apartment on my own and vote, you know, we live in like a different world with different opportunities and I think we're allowed to be more creative within those opportunities than women have been before so um yeah i think that we are like a new we are new hunters and kind of the biggest sense of that word yeah you guys are missing out here let me tell you i know where this is going okay you guys have it made as female hunters okay just on the basis of permission i knew you're gonna do this going up to like landowners and being like hi well no

you could i made some if you answered the door the door and your other self was there talking to you like that, maybe you wouldn't say yes, you could. Maybe if 3,000 women had come to that door before. Maybe if 3,000 women had come to that same door, the answer would be

different. Yes, for sure. You're right. That's just where we stand right now. It's a woman that answers the door. Exactly. I think it would still play. right yes for sure you're right so but that's just where we stand right now you're right it's a woman that answers the door well exactly i think it would still play it on your behalf a little bit more to us i mean women like hunting women hunting is is so because women are supposed to be feminine right they're supposed to be like providers and and or not what am I trying to say? I had written it down. You guys are more respectful and less of a threat

and less likely, in I think my eyes, at least to go out and trash my property and leave my gates open. Right, absolutely. We're going to be mad that other people are doing that, like I was when I saw the elk hunters. To give you guys time to think about what you guys want to say in closing comments,

I'm going to start off with steve's closing comment and it's going to come back to the advantages of being a woman associated with hunting he feels so strongly about it that he told me he was here right now no offense he bogart, though. He told me that he would become a woman to gain those advantages. What? Get out of here. Oh, God, don't even get me started on this. Stephanie Rinella. Can you just hear her? He's really knocking on those doors, holding that pie.

She would have a very slender frame. Yes. He would make a good-looking gal. Poor Rosie. Oh my god. Poor Rosie. Amazing amount of hunting properties to hunt on for free.

I would never use my gender or sexuality to my advantage in that situation ever. Even if it was to get the biggest buck in the world. We don't need to here. I think that I don't know.

I think that's a statement of inexperience. You do? Oh yeah, because hunting permissions you need them everywhere, all the time. They're great to have. The more the better. I've had a couple people offer. You had a guy

send his whole stack of stickers. I'm surprised you didn't tell us about that. Since Dan's going to go ahead and pull it out. I forgot about that. That's right. When we began working with Randy Newberg

we were helping out with Hunt Talk and part of what I was doing is going out to Hunt Talk and reading Randy's hunting stories and figuring out how to factor that into his social and I'm nosy and very curious and I started reading some of the comment threads and it's a really cool community and so I got involved by and very curious and I started reading some of the comment threads. It's a really cool community and so I got involved by just opening my big mouth

and just challenging some of the status quo statements that were going on in there. There are a lot of great people who I've already just met through there. Even with Randy, Giannis and I were on his podcast last night so I would go on and ask questions and none of those questions were ever asking for anything really specific

it was usually something about shooting or a basic question about tags and so I asked a basic question about tags. I asked a basic question about tags in Montana and just trying to figure out the system. I don't even remember what the question was. About 15 minutes later, I got a personal message from someone. He used to hunt in Montana. He had all of his GPS spots.

He sent me a list of all of his honey holes that he accumulated over the course of his life and his family's life. So I do. Are you guys saying that's because she was a girl, or is it because you were a girl? We don't know. We really can't say. I'm also incredibly polite and well-spoken and articulate. I don't know if that helps. Maybe that guy has been a part of that forum and anytime there's a big in or out there,

he's like, I'm going to throw him a bone. He was definitely blatantly like, do not share this with anybody. I'm going out of my way to share this with you. A lot of it was because I was doing it on my own and I was going to go out and hunt by myself so I had kind of made this plan but I never asked for it

I make it known that I would never ask anybody for a location to go hunting in let's do a social experiment, seriously for next season Brittany and I once had a contest that I beat her at we'll have a different contest here well we have a hunting a hunting permission contest for like leading up to fall like we have to ask i'll do it or somebody's other guy will go head to head you ask 20 people for permission i'll ask 20 people for permission it's a good exercise anyway. Yeah, totally. I would be curious. Great exercise.

I mean, I'd win. It's fine. See? Exactly. Exactly, you would. But no, I mean, it was a crazy thing for him to offer, and I couldn't explain how much it meant to me.

But I also, a lot of those areas I didn't want to go into by myself. They're in the heart of grizzly country. So if anybody wants to go hunting with me, I have some secret secrets. Yeah, so you have to do your sweetest permission asking of Nicole to get the spots for her.

I'll have my girls in a couple years come up to me and ask for them. That's true. They can come hunting with me anytime. Any closing thoughts? What are closing thoughts? I don't know. No wrap up?

No. You don't have to have one. What? Yes, she does. Someone else go. Was that yours? No. Can I go second?

You're kind of salty. You're a salty podcaster. Why? I don't know. Salty. she's a salty human i love her uh go ahead oh i don't know i i guess like my before we maybe turn the podcast on we had a like we discussed having a word of intention for our podcast, and mine would be ambassador. Because I think I want to be an ambassador, not only just for hunters, but for women hunters. And I hope that other women want to do the same, and I hope that other men want to do

the same, and encourage more women to get into hunting because I think it's, again, it doesn't have to be about being macho and like, oh, I'm just killing big bucks and all. For me, it's about food and I think that should be important to everybody. But I'm particularly interested in getting women involved and so anyhow, I would like to be an ambassador. I think more people should be ambassadors and I think more people should be ambassadors.

I think more people, men and women and children, should be interested in hunting and should feel like Meat Eater is a safe place for Meat Eater to be their tribe of people and to know that they can always come to us with questions and concerns and that sort of thing. I want us to be that outlet. So that's my closing statement. I think you should go next, Dan.

Sure. Yeah, I don't know. My closing thoughts are my mom is getting back into hunting a little bit, and she's 59, and I think she got a turkey tag last year because there's been a lot of turkeys in her yard and she didn't kill one and i think she sat she sat two nights in a deer blind this last fall and and this there's been definitely a hunting resurgence in my family i grew up hunting a lot my family's all hunted forever forever ever and my mom never killed a deer in my lifetime that i'm aware of but she would always tell the story

about the one time she had an opportunity she um she was she actually i shouldn't tell this but i think she was peeing in the deer. So she wasn't ready to go. But I'm really excited that she's back. And I think that the food part of being involved with Meat Eater and being part of this company and doing this whole thing has been a big part for my family. And my mom and my dad and my brother have all really been more into the cooking

and making sure they get three or four deer a year and fill the freezer and do everything. It makes me kind of actually want to go hunt with my mom. I actually never have hunted with my mom. I think it'd be really fun. I'd love to, you know, my wife has never hunted and she got real excited last year and bought $400 worth of tags and never went out.

Mind you, she did get pregnant and a lot of other stuff going on too. Excuses, excuses. But yeah, no, I think it's great. I think it's cool that we, as a show and as a company, are getting more into it and addressing it more. It's something I'd like to do more.

That's all I got. I have something to say. Nam kind of just continuing what both of you said is like not everyone can work at zpz or work on meat eater or go to alaska and film a documentary with steve with Steve. So, I don't know what I was going to say. I just think it's super important for us and people in the media and hunters just to be ethical and like put, regardless of gender, just like be good examples for everyone

because of the general public or people that aren't into it, like they have a very clear vision of what we all are. And if you could see us in this room right now, we're not that. That's it. My mom actually bought her tags for this fall to go hunting. She bow hunted when I was, I think before I was born with her brother.

She's from Montana. But I think that's really cool. And I'm looking forward to hopefully hunting with her this fall. But just thinking back to what we talked about, I think that sometimes this big wall is built between men and women. And I think that the three of us especially, and the people here, I love how conscious we all are about thinking about that wall

and making sure that that wall doesn't get built or at least wondering why it's there. And I like when people are intentionally thoughtful. I think that in a very traditional culture, it's easy to shrug your shoulders and say, oh, you're just being PC. You're being politically correct. Or you're not representative of the whole of hunters.

Well, I think that hunting is about storytelling. And I think that everybody has a story that they can attach to it. And I think that the more open people are about the type of people getting into hunting, whether it's women or people coming in from the cities, the hipster hunters, whatever they are. I think that there's a place for everybody in hunting.

And I'm happy that I get to be a part of that messaging, especially coming from Meat Eater and coming from a show that I feel like I could show it to any of my friends and I have shown it to a lot of my friends and it's really cool to get that experience where they're like, oh, this is totally not a hunting show. But it is.

I just think that gets to the heart of what we're really talking about, which isn't gender. It's really about stories. Very well said. Janice? All I've got to say is be wary if a soft-spoken, high-pitched

voice, Stephanie Rinella, introduces herself at your farm door. Be very, very wary. Thank you for listening. Thank you guys for coming on. I enjoyed it. It was fun. Good conversation. Sorry for being so salty.

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